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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Calm-Before-the-Storm Notebook
2008-10-08 09:49
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

I don't care if it's one bad apple, 100 or 1,000. Dodger fans have to dial back their venom against opposing fans at Dodger Stadium. There have been too many complaints to ignore. There needs to be a zero-tolerance policy for physical or verbal abuse (particularly cursing) at other fans, and Dodger Stadium security has to be more proactive in dealing with these incidents.

Waiting for someone to call the Dodger Stadium hotline with a complaint is not enough. Hire more security if you need to. You've still got five more days to prepare.

  • Dodger fans might have a chip on their shoulder about the team not getting enough respect before or during the Cubs series, but now it's the Phillies who have a right to complain, writes Tim Malcolm at Phillies Nation. Personally, I'm with Malcolm in that I'd be happy to fly under the radar.

  • Don Mattingly helped convince Dodger hitters to work the counts, relates Ross Newhan in the Times. I think it's great, but it's not as if that's not something many of us have been wanting for years.

  • Kim Ng will interview for the Seattle Mariners general manager job, but she has competition, reports Larry Stone of the Seattle Times.

  • Comments (78)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2008-10-08 10:07:16
    1.   Kevin Lewis
    Amen to this, Jon. If someone from the Dodgers is reading this, I hope they take some action.
    2008-10-08 10:10:46
    2.   cargill06
    Jacob Burch went/goes to hart, as a Canyon alumn that knocks you down a couple points in my book.
    2008-10-08 10:12:11
    3.   ToyCannon
    Several days ago 6,000 tickets were for sale at stubhub for Sundays game. It is down to 4,850 today.

    The good news for me at playoff games is that the season ticket holders use their tickets so from row A - E I'm surrounded by good fans. The only exception are the people to the right of me as I think a broker owns those tickets as they are always for sale. I found that you don't see as many children/infants at the postseason games. Parents who have brought their children to many of the games during the year are bringing adult friends to the postseason. Of course I only have one game to base that opinion on.

    2008-10-08 10:12:20
    4.   MollyKnight
    I'm really, really looking forward to going to the game tomorrow in Dodger gear.
    2008-10-08 10:13:07
    5.   ToyCannon
    For some reason I thought Shields was a Granada HS grad.
    2008-10-08 10:14:03
    6.   MollyKnight
    3-The awesome thing for me is that men don't bring their girlfriends/wives to playoff games, so there is NO line for the bathroom for me. Which is truly amazing.
    2008-10-08 10:14:25
    7.   cargill06
    5 Ryan Braun was, maybe that's who you're thinking of?
    2008-10-08 10:17:04
    8.   underdog
    Meanwhile, Molly can report back about how well-behaved the Phillies phans were toward her and fellow Dodger fans.

    But I'm with you Jon, I've been distressed reading about some of the behavior going on at DS (knowing that there are certainly many more good-natured fans, well-behaved fans, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences to those who cross the line). "Less drink, more think," a friend of mine once, who admittedly had a few, said at Candlestick Park.

    2008-10-08 10:22:04
    9.   Bob Timmermann
    Gary Matthews Jr is also a former Highlander.

    BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    However once the Angels were eliminated, my high school alma mater bid adieu to the playoffs as Messrs. Anderson and Garland are off playing golf.

    2008-10-08 10:24:04
    10.   Bob Timmermann
    6
    There were a lot of couples and families in my section Saturday.

    The men's room line was mighty long.

    2008-10-08 10:28:42
    11.   mwhite06
    9 Those guys went to Kennedy right?
    2008-10-08 10:28:55
    12.   JoeyP
    I'll be surprised if the Mariners dont hire Woodfork.

    They do have some good candidates interviewing.

    2008-10-08 10:31:33
    13.   Bob Timmermann
    11
    Indeed they did. Terrmel Sledge did make the Pacific League playoffs in Japan with the Nippon Ham Fighters!

    Go Fighters!

    2008-10-08 10:33:40
    14.   underdog
    For a long while my high school hadn't been represented since Jesse Orosco stopped playing (which was a nice run), but then Ryan Spilborghs changed that with the Rockies' run last year. This year, bubkus.
    2008-10-08 10:38:27
    15.   Tripon
    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/telander/1208336,CST-SPT-rick08.article

    After the Cubs lost in game 3. One or more Cubs players broke a water main in frustration.

    2008-10-08 10:40:29
    16.   Eric Stephen
    The only major leaguer ever to come from my high school was Tony Perezchica, who did play ball with my older brother.

    http://tinyurl.com/4vvy2w

    2008-10-08 10:40:54
    17.   Bob Timmermann
    I would be very impressed if a player could have broken a water main.

    Did he have a steam drill in the clubhouse?

    2008-10-08 10:42:58
    18.   Eric Stephen
    14
    Jesse Orosco, Jr. is a reliever in the D-Backs' system.

    If I had to pick one guy most likely to end up playing with or against his son in an MLB game, it would have been Orosco (or maybe Julio Franco).

    2008-10-08 10:43:52
    19.   Jon Weisman
    16 - I remember hearing that name for a long time and thinking it was a nickname for Tony Perez, rather than another person.
    2008-10-08 10:44:37
    20.   Tripon
    pipe, not main. My bad.
    2008-10-08 10:45:16
    21.   Eric Stephen
    15
    Maybe one of the players was trying to escape. That's why I always look at a player's shoes.
    2008-10-08 10:45:27
    22.   regfairfield
    I haven't had a representative from my high school since Sean Berry. He didn't live up to Denny Hocking's repuatation.
    2008-10-08 10:47:04
    23.   Kevin Lewis
    17

    Seriously, a shoe?

    2008-10-08 10:49:05
    24.   Eric Stephen
    19
    Maybe we can stop all the confusion by calling the Arizona centerfielder Chris Youngchica.
    2008-10-08 10:51:56
    25.   underdog
    18 Yah but JO Jr. didn't go to my high school, therefore he does not count.

    (No, actually, it's neat his son has a chance to make it in the bigs.)

    --

    Man, this long layoff before the NLCS is killing me.

    2008-10-08 10:57:26
    26.   Bob Timmermann
    Hey, I wrote a really long post about the 1915 World Series on the Griddle to entertain people.
    2008-10-08 10:57:32
    27.   Kevin Lewis
    25

    I cannot wait for the game tomorrow!!!

    2008-10-08 10:58:18
    28.   Improbable88
    I doubt we'll see as many Phillies fans at the Los Angeles games as we did Cubs fans.

    My section, usually a rowdy bunch of working class fans, was actually pretty well-behaved. It normally takes an obnoxious fan of the opposing team to really set them off, and the Cubbies didn't exactly give Cubs fans much to be obnoxious about.

    I won't, however, get into the time a Giants fan popped a beach ball with his teeth. Ugly stuff. Ugly ugly stuff.

    2008-10-08 10:59:14
    29.   mintxcore
    14 Underdog! You went to SBHS? Spilborghs was a year ahead of me. My class (c/o 2000) had Virgil Vasquez, AAA pitcher for the Tigers.
    2008-10-08 10:59:20
    30.   underdog
    Well, I guess I could do my, you know, actual work for awhile...
    2008-10-08 11:00:34
    31.   underdog
    29 Yessir! Go Dons!

    I actually went there with Jesse O's nephew. Er, just (quite) a few years behind you.

    Ah, that's nice to know, had never heard of Vasquez.

    2008-10-08 11:01:42
    32.   ToyCannon
    18
    I sat with Orosco's extended family for a Arizona spring training game during his last attempt to catch on with a team. They were awesome and kept telling stories about his high school days in Santa Barbara. Probably around 15 - 20 members were there to cheer him on.
    2008-10-08 11:04:55
    33.   Penarol1916
    My high school has not a single alumnus who has played professional baseball, in fact, the only professional athlete that I believe my was Gary Anderson, the Tampa Bay running back from the '80's. I blame our mascot, the Kewpie Doll.
    2008-10-08 11:05:12
    34.   ToyCannon
    6
    Ah, that explains why my wife said her pee line was short and everyone was talking about how long the mens line were. I hadn't noticed that fact, everyone around us brought their significant others.
    2008-10-08 11:06:49
    35.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
    14 - SBHS-Dont forget Randall Cunningham and actor Anthony Edwards.
    /didn't attend SBHS, but live 3 blocks away from campus
    2008-10-08 11:06:58
    36.   old dodger fan
    As far as I know my HS has never produced a player in any major professional sport. My wife's HS has at least one but she always scowls when I mention his name. Allen Iverson.
    2008-10-08 11:09:09
    37.   BlueMamma
    Do you consider the popping of beach balls an obnoxious gesture? Because I do that all the time. Not with my teeth, admittedly.
    2008-10-08 11:09:50
    38.   cargill06
    Odds to win the NLCS

    Phillies -110
    Dodgers -110

    2008-10-08 11:10:49
    39.   kachang
    Sorry to repost this from previous thread...

    Hey there to all in the philly/new york/ne corridor contingent.

    I'll be there tomorrow and friday (whoo hoo!). In fact, I have 1 extra ticket for friday. Its a great seat in the infield level, row 30-ish behind 3rd base. The only catch is that you'll have to actually sit with me as I'm under strict orders to make sure that the ticket is not resold. MLB is funny that way and I don't want to get my wife fired. Its a $120 ticket and I'm not looking to make any money. Just to have a sympathetic Dodger fan to sit next to.

    Email me at jaehyun.chang at gmail.com

    Oh and yes, I'm planning on getting to Chickie and Pete's before the game as well...maybe by 6pm. So looking forward to this!

    2008-10-08 11:10:53
    40.   underdog
    35 Actually Edwards (and his pal Eric Stoltz, not Stults) went to crosstown rival San Marcos High, with my sister as a matter of fact.

    But Cunningham, yah, and his older bro Sam "Bam", along with Karch Kiraly, Eddie Matthews, Jamaal Wilkes, Ron "Bull Durham" Shelton -- quite a few famous alums.

    2008-10-08 11:13:19
    41.   Harold M Johnson
    I have Sirius and listen to a lot of Sports radio. It seems like the "sports" guys like the Phillies in this series, because they live on the East Coast and have heard of Utley and Howard and Hamels, and have never heard of Billz and Kuroda. The only names that get mentioned are Manny and Torre.

    On the other hand, the "baseball" guys are more mixed, as they know the Dodgers players and have respect for our pitching.

    Most of what I heard in the past few days though has seemed like the nation's sports radio guys think the Phillies will win. Plus Leitch at Deadspin.com picked the Phillies in 7, just like he picked the Cubs in 5. :)

    2008-10-08 11:13:21
    42.   Bob Timmermann
    I popped a beach ball with a pen. I was considered a hero by bhsportsguy, Greg Brock, and bluebleeder.

    The rest of the people hated us.

    2008-10-08 11:14:52
    43.   Rob M
    Where is Manny living in LA? I know he lived in the Four Seasons in Boston, but I'm not sure a similar hotel is close to Dodger Stadium. Is he living with a teammate?
    2008-10-08 11:16:14
    44.   underdog
    "Manny Ramirez: Roommate" would be a fun reality show. I'd watch that.
    2008-10-08 11:19:14
    45.   mintxcore
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/vasquvi01.shtml

    Virgil pitched 16.7 innings for the Tigers last year! I actually played Little League with him back in the day.

    SBHS def has some interesting alumni - Karch Kiraly being another.

    2008-10-08 11:20:15
    46.   Bob Timmermann
    43
    Since I've seen a Manny Ramirez autographed photo at a local eatery in my neck of the woods, I'm guessing he got a place in Pasadena.
    2008-10-08 11:21:00
    47.   LOB
    Okay, I'm ready for the next game.

    Now.

    2008-10-08 11:21:21
    48.   Kevin Lewis
    43

    The word is he lives on my street in Pasadena

    2008-10-08 11:24:34
    49.   underdog
    45 Nice! He went to UCSB, too. I'll have to start following his career now.
    2008-10-08 11:24:58
    50.   Tripon
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dodgertown8-2008oct08,0,461149.story

    With the Dodgers in the running for the World Series, the Los Angeles City Council today unanimously approved a resolution calling for federal legislation to rename the area around Dodger Stadium "Dodgertown."

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2008-10-08 11:24:59
    51.   Tripon
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dodgertown8-2008oct08,0,461149.story

    With the Dodgers in the running for the World Series, the Los Angeles City Council today unanimously approved a resolution calling for federal legislation to rename the area around Dodger Stadium "Dodgertown."

    2008-10-08 11:25:17
    52.   underdog
    Jeez, Charles Schwab went to my HS too. I wonder if I can call him for some free advice. I wonder if he's still employed.
    2008-10-08 11:26:55
    53.   mintxcore
    49 I think the first game he pitched for the Tigers, they showed the broadcast in SB. Not sure on all the details, as I was in Boston at the time, but apparently a lot of people watched.... him melt down and not do so hot :[
    2008-10-08 11:27:29
    54.   Harold M Johnson
    This should be... fun: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20081008_McCarver_outspoken_about_L_A__s_dread_man.html

    "I mean, talk about wearing out your welcome in a town, and it was a long welcome with the Red Sox. But some of the things he did were simply despicable, despicable - like not playing, refusing to play. Forgetting what knee to limp on. And now it's washed, it's gone" ...

    "A rejuvenated Manny, I think it would be fair to say," McCarver said, sitting in the Phillies dugout yesterday. "More than old Manny. Manny's doing things that even Manny doesn't do, [like] scoring on a double to right field from first base."

    McCarver laughed and asked which knee was it that was hurting?

    "It's a wonderful story in many, many ways, and from Boston's standpoint, it's a horrible story, I would imagine, because he could be doing that for Boston," McCarver said.*

    2008-10-08 11:31:37
    55.   tjdub
    42 Random question beach ball killer - Were you a smoker attending Angel games in the late 80's?

    One of my cherished high school memories involves rescuing a beach ball popped by a guy with a cigarette at the Big A. We borrowed a used band-aid from a girl in front of us, patched it up and were lauded as heroes.

    Of course now I'm older and disapprove of such youthful distractions like beach balls, rally towels, the wave, etc.

    2008-10-08 11:31:44
    56.   SG6
    48 - Let us know where so we can party with him.

    MANNY TO the crowd: "We're going to party at my house. We're going to party like rock stars, if you can find my house."

    2008-10-08 11:36:42
    57.   kinbote
    Imaginary conversation somewhere in Philadelphia:

    Joe Torre: C'mere kid.
    Cory Wade: Yes sir.
    JT: Drop the sir. I'm Joe.
    CW: Yes sir--I mean Joe.
    JT: That's better. [Torre places arm lightly around Wade's shoulder.] Listen, I just want you to know we're going to use you a lot this series.
    CW: I know.
    JT: I mean a lot--every game if we have to.
    CW: I understand.
    JT: We might ride you a little now, but you'll get a chance to rest up in the offseason.
    CW: [Nods and clears throat.]
    JT: How do you feel?
    CW. Good. I'm ready.
    JT: Glad to hear it. Get outta here.

    This has been a reenactment. If it were an actual conversation, there would've been a greater payoff for the reader.

    2008-10-08 11:42:21
    58.   Bob Timmermann
    55
    The only time I've smoked cigarettes was when I was trying to get out of a wedding. Instead I just convinced my late fiancee to use wedding invitation envelopes that were really cheap.
    2008-10-08 11:43:26
    59.   underdog
    Nice piece on Broxton in the Philly Inquirer (sorry if this was linked earlier):

    Future is now for the Dodgers' super saver
    http://tinyurl.com/3op566

    Broxton is physically imposing, but he is not one of those wild-man closers who thrive on intimidation. He is so soft-spoken that you find yourself leaning closer to hear him. His resting heart rate, you surmise, is not high.

    "Laid back," he said with a little smile.

    Waynesboro, his hometown in Georgia, is about 25 miles from famed Augusta. But it is more country than country club, billing itself as the "Bird Dog Capital of the World."

    "I mean, there's three red lights or so," Broxton said. "I come from a lot of Mother Nature. Huntin', raisin' dogs. Bird dogs, raccoon dogs. I've had up to 22 dogs at one time. My granddad's had up to 40-something at one time."

    That is not a suitable hobby in L.A.

    "Nah, you can't have any big dogs," he said. "It's, uh, different here. A lot more people and not as many trees."

    2008-10-08 11:47:05
    60.   Eric Stephen
    54
    If McCarver is anti-Manny, it's easy to know which side to be on! :)
    2008-10-08 11:47:24
    61.   Jon Weisman
    Game 1 lineup
    via ITD:

    Furcal, SS
    Ethier, RF
    Manny, LF
    Martin, C
    Loney, 1B
    Kemp, CF
    Blake, 3B
    DeWitt, 2B
    Lowe, P

    "Joe also said he expects it to go back to the lineup we had for the Division Series once we face a right-hander in Game 2."

    2008-10-08 11:47:39
    62.   Alex41592
    We've got a lineup for Game 1! Per ITD.

    Furcal, SS

    Ethier, RF

    Manny, LF

    Martin, C

    Loney, 1B

    Kemp, CF

    Blake, 3B

    DeWitt, 2B

    Lowe, P

    2008-10-08 11:47:43
    63.   ToyCannon
    Maybe that is why they added trees to the Dodgers bullpen this year.
    2008-10-08 11:48:09
    64.   alnyden
    I was at the game last Saturday. While it was great to see Dodger fans so fired up, I thought a lot of people were way to aggressive toward the Cubs fans. If I were in Chicago and treated that way, I would have felt very uncomfortable.

    Come on people, it's just a game, it's supposed to be fun, and there is NO EXCUSE for any verbal abuse towards any fans.

    Thank you Jon for bringing this up.

    2008-10-08 11:49:33
    65.   Daniel Zappala
    My high school alumni who played MLB include: Mike Witt, Steve Buechele, Ryan Garko, Ben Francisco, and DJ Houlton.
    2008-10-08 11:49:33
    66.   Bumsrap
    Jon, your DThoughts on fan behavior are still timely and if something isn't done in a big way, the Dodgers are going to be cast as irresponsible and liable when injury at Dodger Stadium becomes front page news. There could even be class action lawsuits filed. Well, that is my contribution to raise consciousness and if we all jump in here, maybe some good will come of it.

    Regarding respect issues for the Dodgers, my thoughts are that respect comes from consistent and repeated positive actions and not from winning one playoff series in 20+ years. The Dodgers do not need respect now, they need our support.

    2008-10-08 11:50:02
    67.   Frip
    Jon: Don Mattingly helped convince Dodger hitters to work the counts, relates Ross Newhan in the Times. I think it's great, but it's not as if that's not something many of us have been wanting for years.

    I don't get the point of your last sentence, starting with the sour grapes "but". Someone finally came along and executed what we've been wanting. That's a good thing, (like you say), but then you get pissy about it.

    ?

    2008-10-08 11:52:22
    68.   Eric Stephen
    I just like seeing:

    Blake
    DeWitt

    in the lineup. It cracks me up for some reason.

    I think the Dodgers should draft Lebron James's brother* and bat him before our 1st baseman.

    *I don't know if Lebron has a brother.

    2008-10-08 11:52:58
    69.   cargill06
    Can't say I agree with Loney starting. Go prove me wrong James.
    2008-10-08 11:54:21
    70.   waterboy100
    0 i was at the third to last game this season and i was with my mom and grand parent. there were four big buys two rows in front of us standing and throwing out the f bomb every two seconds. buy the fourth inning about 16 people had left (hopefully to find new seats, not just leaving). the guy in front of me asked the big guys to sit down and they started ursing and threatening him. i finally went down and got a security guard who came and watched them and kicked em out.

    my main problem is not that i had to get security, but that the user who was 50 feet in front of us was busier watching the game than observing the crowd.

    2008-10-08 11:55:52
    71.   Kevin Lewis
    56

    I thought it would be funny if you all of a sudden became Manny's neighbor. I would have a hard time not waiting up for him to come home from a game, so I could peak my head out and say, "nice home run, Manny"

    2008-10-08 11:58:52
    72.   Jon Weisman
    67 - I guess it's a good thing Rule 2 is in place.
    2008-10-08 11:59:06
    73.   Bob Timmermann
    71
    It would be just like back in the Ebbets Field days with people saying hi to Gil Hodges at the market!
    2008-10-08 12:00:44
    74.   Jon Weisman
    NPUT
    2008-10-08 12:02:59
    75.   KG16
    58 - that's a House reference, no?
    2008-10-08 12:20:21
    76.   Andrew Shimmin
    Seinfeld, I'm pretty sure.
    2008-10-08 13:24:56
    77.   East Coast Dodger
    I'm a little late to the party, but Jeff King, the former 3B for the Pirates, is the only player I'm aware of who went to my high school.

    I may be in L.A. the 21st through the 26th - what is the best way for me to get tickets to a possible Dodgers game that might be happening around then? I also live 1.5 hours from Fenway and try to go there as well.

    2008-10-08 16:25:57
    78.   spudrph
    I completely agree.

    Remember the Bill James comment in the HBA about how obnoxious drunks at games pretty much disappeared over time? I hope someone in charge has this as a priority, because there is absolutely no reason for it.

    I hope the fear over losing customers (attendance was down this year, according to SI, for the first year in several.) doesn't inhibit some stringent crowd control.

    Boston reportedly has some trouble with this, too.

    Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.