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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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One Rock 'n' Roll Too Many
2008-10-09 20:18
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Yep, that's what happens.

Manny Ramirez's 400-foot-plus drive in the first inning gets in one run but stops just short of being a two-run homer.

Shane Victorino's extra bit of hustle forces Rafael Furcal to hurry himself into an error.

The Phillies knock two out of the park; the Dodgers hit two drives in the ninth that don't quite have enough.

And by slim margins like those, Game 1 of the National League Championship Series goes to Philadelphia. The Dodgers had their mini-victories; the Phillies had a few more.

Derek Lowe had two odd things happen to him tonight - a collision at first base with Victorino, and a bad swing that might have tweaked his right hand. Whether those were factors in taking down what had been another smooth, groundball-filled start, we'll have to rely on whatever he might say in the postgame to find out. (As commenter BHSportsguy pointed out, the preamble for the Phillies' three-run sixth was when Lowe gave up two-out hits to the Nos. 8 and No. 9 hitters in the fifth.)

Cole Hamels weathered a rougher first few innings than Phillie fans might have liked and, like Lowe in the NL Division Series, outlasted his 2-0 deficit. Citizen's Bank Park did not play like a bandbox when the Dodgers were batting, and you can bet Hamels had something to do with that.

The Dodgers did do a lot that was right tonight, and even if they're mulling that Furcal error that might have cost them the game, they should still feel good about themselves. I still believe Game 1 was one the Phillies needed more than the Dodgers. So much for that luxury, though. Friday's Game 2 isn't do-or-die for Los Angeles, but things are a whole bunch of serious now.

Comments (182)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-10-09 20:24:08
1.   bhsportsguy
LATed

Thanks Jon but again, I don't relish being right, I'll wonder if Blake wishes he would dived for Ruiz's ball, would have been a spectacular play but still.

2008-10-09 20:25:07
2.   LogikReader
Derek Lowe had two odd things happen to him tonight - a collision at first base with Victorino, and a bad swing that might have tweaked his right hand.

Nah, I doubt that had much of an effect. I think the big play was Victorino's dash to first. It made Furcal hurry his throw, plus Utley and Burrell are GREAT power hitters.

I don't feel worried or anything. I guess if I am worried about anything it's how Manuel apparently has Manny figured out. That is, if "hitting 2-4 with an RBI Double that could have been a 2 run HR" is "figuring him out."

As I wrote the last thread:

I'll hang out here while I wait for Molly to get back to DT and bring us her account of the experience today. I can't say I'm disappointed tonight per se, especially since LA held the Phils to 3 runs. That's not easy to do! I was impressed by our staff tonight.

2008-10-09 20:26:55
3.   UVaDodger
Well,let's all remember that the series hasn't even started yet...and it won't until the Dodgers win one on the road tomorrow!
2008-10-09 20:29:54
4.   Jon Weisman
2 - Why would you give any credence to the idea that Manuel has Manny figured out after tonight?
2008-10-09 20:30:14
5.   DBrim
Pressure, meet Dodgers. Dodgers, meet pressure.
2008-10-09 20:31:48
6.   Tripon
Bills will be fine. The Dodgers will game two, and they'll take the series back 1-1 to Dodgers Stadium.
2008-10-09 20:32:58
7.   DBrim
Does anybody else think that using Maddux there was kinda weird? It worked out okay, but everything was hit pretty hard.
2008-10-09 20:33:38
8.   JoeyP
The Dodgers lost this game bc they only scored 2 runs.

Lowe was fine. You cant expect him to throw a shutout at that ballpark, vs that lineup.

It was a well played game on both sides.

Tomorrow's winner will win the series IMO.

2008-10-09 20:34:30
9.   JoeyP
7- Using Maddux & Park in that ballpark is scary.
2008-10-09 20:37:52
10.   LogikReader
9

Seriously, man. You see either of them at Citizens Bank Park and then hold on to your hat!

2

Tonight certainly doesn't prove that theory. I thought it was interesting how both FOX and Vin Scully brought it up. Imagine... six more inches to the right and we'd into free baseball!

2008-10-09 20:37:59
11.   DBrim
8 - 7 of those innings was against their best starter and 1 was against the best closer in the game. Although we do need more of the "non-Manny" production. I still can't believe that ball didn't make it out.
2008-10-09 20:38:02
12.   Alice S
7
When I saw Maddux was in I had to hold my breath - we know that hitters' parks aren't that friendly to the old man nowadays and this is Philadelphia.

I was pretty upset about the loss (I'm unreasonably emotional when it comes to sports...) but seeing all the optimism here has cheered me up a little. Bills will get 'em tomorrow!

2008-10-09 20:41:00
13.   LogikReader
With the Dodgers first preseason loss, the ice cream had to stay in the freezer.

Don't worry Ice Cream! I'll be there for you soon!

2008-10-09 20:41:15
14.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
We were one pitch worse than the Phillies tonight.
If that's the margin on their home field, I like where we are.
2008-10-09 20:41:32
15.   LogikReader
13

POST-season! Logikreader, you doofus!

2008-10-09 20:44:17
16.   Eric Stephen
The one slight consolation is this tiny fact:

Game 1, 1988 NLCS
NL East Champ 3, Dodgers 2

2008-10-09 20:44:37
17.   JRSarno
I think Kemp really needed to cash in that run in the 1st, when he left a runner on 3rd. If anything, to get his confidence going for this series. But, hindsight is 20/20.
2008-10-09 20:45:45
18.   LogikReader
16

I've been meaning to ask about that. If the Improbable/Impossible Dodgers were the big underdogs in '88, how'd they wind up with a better record than the Mets? I believe LA had home field advantage in the LCS.

2008-10-09 20:47:13
19.   LogikReader
18

Crazy... just looked it up on B-R. The Dodgers had a worse record than the Mets and they still had Home Field. Confusing.

2008-10-09 20:48:26
20.   Eric Stephen
18
Back then, home field rotated between divisions (and leagues) for each playoff series year by year. Until the wild card came into play.
2008-10-09 20:49:00
21.   bhsportsguy
18 You will find it hard to believe that back then League Championship Series and World Series just altenated home field with no regard to record or All-Star game winner.
2008-10-09 20:50:03
22.   Bob Timmermann
19
They just alternated home field back then.

In 1995, home field was set up ahead of time. They changed that rule after Cleveland never got homefield edge in any round of the playoffs despite them going 100-44.

The NFL used to have locked in homefield. Check out the Dolphins sites for playoff games in their undefeated season.

2008-10-09 20:53:36
23.   jet
I know it's a desperation move and arguments can be made either way, but did anyone wonder why Torre didn't pinch hit for DeWitt with Garciaparra?
2008-10-09 20:54:31
24.   LogikReader
20 -22

Crazy!

2008-10-09 21:00:42
25.   Bob Timmermann
I remember as a kid when the Rams went 12-2 with John Hadl as QB and they had to open the playoffs at Dallas.

And they lost.

I started to really think the NFL was inherently unfair then.

Then the Rams played the Vikings in subsequent years.

That's when I sent away for the "My First Grudge Obelisk" from an ad in Ranger Rick magazine.

2008-10-09 21:10:05
26.   Jonny6
I was hoping for a dramatic Dodger win, but it just wasn't in the cards tonight. I was rooting for a situation that our old nemesis JP could be used and prove to us his inherent worth (images of Pierre shaking his fist at the hordes of DT doubters after stealing second and scoring the tying run). I haven't had a chance to read the game comments yet so maybe this was already discussed, but was anyone a bit surprised that DeWitt wasn't pinch hit for? Despite the loss, it was a well played game and I'm still in good spirits for tomorrow and the series, and looking forward to ditching the afternoon at work and enjoying the equalizer.

I'm playing single parent for a few days so I didn't get to really sit down and listen closely to Buck and McCarver, but they seemed a little less self-aggrandizing than usual. The best part about the move to Fox for me is that I get Fox in HD but not TBS; baseball in HD is really an entirely different viewing experience.

2008-10-09 21:14:27
27.   jet
I'll answer my own question: Yes, hit for DeWitt! Forget the righty/righty: Kemp and Blake just missed and Garciparra has a history of success on this stage. Yes, the DeWitt AB is only a snapshot, but I have the feeling that Nomar might have had the better chance to have us smiling. At least until whatever happened in bottom of the ninth happened.
2008-10-09 21:15:26
28.   ChemicalMachine
23 With the defense Blake played in the game and the pitcher's spot behind him, I don't think you can take him out there. I wouldn't have wanted to see anyone else playing second in the bottom of the 9th if we had tied it up or gone ahead.
2008-10-09 21:17:30
29.   KG16
5 - they've met, had a fling in August and September, as I recall.
2008-10-09 21:18:17
30.   jet
28. First you have to get tied. And I'll take my chances with Berrora's defense in the ninth, or why even have him on the roster?
2008-10-09 21:20:13
31.   LogikReader
Sly Stallone's brother Frank has a good message for us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neNtMX-v2eY

2008-10-09 21:21:24
32.   Eric Stephen
26
Right before last year's playoffs (the day of the 1st game I believe) Time Warner added TBS HD, just as TBS was to begin broadcasting the playoffs. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything else broadcast in HD on TBS. Was My Boys in HD? I'm not sure.

You are right though, baseball (or any sport) in HD is the way to go.

2008-10-09 21:22:01
33.   Eric Stephen
31
Without clicking, I'm guessing that's "Far From Over."

It pays to know your Frank Stallone!

2008-10-09 21:22:08
34.   Jon Weisman
Who would you have hit for the pitcher if you used Nomar for DeWitt?
2008-10-09 21:22:09
35.   LogikReader
Seinfeld is in HD on TBS! So too is "The Office." And that one grocery store sitcom.
2008-10-09 21:22:18
36.   KG16
DeWitt was the better choice in the ninth over Nomar. He hit the ball rather hard a few times tonight, just missed a home run down the first base line, himself. He wasn't over his head, and if he got on, you'd have the pitcher's spot and I don't think Joe would be keen on having Kuo hit for himself there.
2008-10-09 21:23:14
37.   Eric Stephen
35
I didn't think Seinfeld was even made in HD! Ahh, the wonders of technology.
2008-10-09 21:23:27
38.   LogikReader
33

Right you are! Let's counter Rocky with his brother!!

2008-10-09 21:23:32
39.   Jonny6
28
I think the usual consensus is why worry about defense - you're one run down if you don't score then the game is over (plus you have both Berroa and Ozuna whose only value is defensive replacement anyway). If it was one out, than I would have assumed DeWitt would hit. But with two I was bit surprised that Nomar wasn't used, since you run the risk of never getting to him, which of course is what happened. It wasn't one of those obvious situations where I curse the manager for being foolish, mostly I was just surprised that Torre would take a chance that Nomar wouldn't get a shot at tying up the game.
2008-10-09 21:23:40
40.   DBrim
DeWitt was close to hitting one out in the prior AB, too. Leaving him in the game was the right call, in my opinion.
2008-10-09 21:24:30
41.   Bob Timmermann
Frank TV will be in HD!

It's very funny I hear.

2008-10-09 21:24:36
42.   KG16
heh, preseason basketball is fun. first of two free throws, and a Clippers player goes for the rebound, a Laker gets it off the tip and tries to run the break. you got to love having the scrubs in during preseason.
2008-10-09 21:24:50
43.   Tripon
Hey, hey. Young would look really good right about now.
2008-10-09 21:26:47
44.   Saburo
Just saw my first "House" promo of the year.

Ahh, October...

2008-10-09 21:26:52
45.   LogikReader
Frank TV? Never heard of it.
2008-10-09 21:28:34
46.   Jonny6
34
That's likely the reason that Torre didn't use Nomar. With Kent already used, it would have been Pierre. Not a bad option if you need only a single with two outs (and Ozuna in to run), but much less appealing if you need an XBH.
2008-10-09 21:30:56
47.   trainwreck
Another bright side:

The Sharks power-play already looks better than last year.

2008-10-09 21:32:41
48.   ChemicalMachine
Yeah, I do think the Blake's defense was the secondary reason not to pinch hit for him. The bigger reason for me would be that I would rather take the chance on Blake getting on with Nomar backing him up, than Nomar getting on and having to rely on JP or Berroa to bring him home.
2008-10-09 21:44:02
49.   skybluestoday
Interesting, well-played game with lots of defensive gems (no, I don't mean Furcal's error).

We got beat, pure and simple, because we couldn't scratch out enough runs against their best starter and their killer bullpen. They, however, were able to eke it out with crossed-up Lowe CBP longball.

Those guys are good. Hamels is quite good. What can you say? -- sometimes you just get beat by good players. I always comfort myself with these sorts of thoughts after a tough -- but not ignoble -- loss:

How often in the past did fans say things like "That doggone Willie Mays did it again!" or "How does that darned Babe Ruth do it???" "Grrr! Roberto Clemente!" "What's up with that Stan Musial guy???" "Oh no, not Hank Aaron!"

Probably a lot. Good players are good. They can beat you. Try to get them on your team instead of the other side, so they won't kick your muppet when it matters.

2008-10-09 21:44:20
50.   jet
34. Ultimately, yes, Pierre. But the hope (okay, prayer) would be that Nomar ties it up. Better to have tried to homer etc... At any rate, the AB is magnified because it was the last one. Therefore, I would take the shot with the better power and poise, and if Nomar got a single, live with Pierre...

36 Btw, although it never would have happened, Kuo has displayed power and plate presence in his limited ABs. I recall Torre using him as a pinch hitter I think at least twice. But no, not against Lidge...

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-10-09 21:44:38
51.   LAT
I have no problem with the game tonight. It would have been nice to win and we could have but we were up against a pitcher of Webb, Pevey or Lincicum's class. No shame in losing to Hamels or any of those guys. The key is taking it to Meyers tomorrow. He can be feasted on. The Dodger's just need to eat.
2008-10-09 21:46:42
52.   Bob Timmermann
In the AP story:
''It was definitely intense out there,'' Utley said. ''It gave us that little extra Adrenalin.''

Adrenalin: apparently you can buy it over the counter now from Pfizer.

The Dodgers were just using adrenaline, it's cheaper generic equivalent.

2008-10-09 21:50:25
53.   underdog
Sigh. Just finished watching the game. Waaah! First my soccer team loses a tough one by a goal, then the Dodgers lose a tough one by a run. But I wasn't expecting to win either (my futbol team played the best team in the league and almost won). And this was a game the Phillies had to win, at home with Hamels, their one bonafide ace, going. And the Dodgers almost sneak out with it. I have the same feeling joey does though, that the winner of tomorrow's game will take the series. No pressure, Chad!

The other question will be will the hot Brett Myers show up tomorrow, or will the erratic, hittable Myers show up.

I expect more than 2 runs from LA tomorrow.

Btw, I really feel they played a very solid game. Their defense separate from Raffy's one error was terrific. They were just facing a mostly lights out pitcher, and Lowe lost it in one inning. I'm sad they lost but I don't feel that torn up about it.

2008-10-09 21:54:04
54.   underdog
Mike's baseball ranter calls the guys the Dodgers brought up in the 9th "stiffs." Hope they are un-stiff tomorrow to show him.
2008-10-09 21:54:12
55.   KG16
52 - quick, call Senator Mitchell! PEDs! PEDs!

Also, anyone catch Bill Murray on SNL's special?

2008-10-09 21:55:13
56.   underdog
Any report from our DT-ers in Philly yet? I just hope they survived.
2008-10-09 21:56:50
57.   trainwreck
56
Not yet, which can't be a good sign.
2008-10-09 22:00:37
58.   Jon Weisman
50 - I don't think Nomar is that much more likely to hit a homer there off Lidge, if at all.
2008-10-09 22:08:51
59.   jet
58. I guess we'll never know. And I don't want to belabor a speculative and subjective point, let's just win four games.
2008-10-09 22:10:09
60.   LOB
56 57
Just heard from njr, aka my son, who went to the game with his friend Zak and Molly K. He said they were okay, but pretty crushed by the Phillies come-from-behind win. "We had them," says he.

He had to get off before I could ask him about the Phans.

He and his buddy are staying at a scuzzy Econo-Lodge tonight, complete with waterbugs in the blankets. Yeesh.

2008-10-09 22:10:10
61.   jet
58 - Btw, how do you make the number of the comment one's referring to 'blue'? Thanks...
2008-10-09 22:10:23
62.   LogikReader
Wow...

Now I'm hearing from ESPN about how Manny should have been on 3rd with that big drive in the first inning. That seems like a reach. Do any of you think the same thing?

2008-10-09 22:14:40
63.   trainwreck
61
Put the number in brackets.
61 + [ ]= 61
2008-10-09 22:15:30
64.   trainwreck
62
I know they were saying how he was watching his ball coming out of the box, but I still do not think he was going to make it to third.
2008-10-09 22:16:50
65.   underdog
60 Ay caramba! If those are bed bugs, they need to get out of that place asap! Or get a different room at least. I had a friend who stayed in NY recently and found bed bugs in their place and had to vacate twice. It's an epidemic back there.

Er, anyway, thanks for the report though!

62 No way. I think he should have hustled more to 2nd but I don't see how on that carom back to the centerfield, who has a great arm, and Manny is not quite Matt Kemp when it comes to bursts of speed.

2008-10-09 22:17:15
66.   jet
{63} Thanks.
2008-10-09 22:18:13
67.   trainwreck
Do bed bugs exist around here? Never seen or heard of a person having them.
2008-10-09 22:18:16
68.   jet
62 63 Wrong brackets, sorry.
2008-10-09 22:20:09
69.   underdog
Yikes, just saw that note on the PE.com blog, under "Stay classy" header...

>>Takashi Saito learned before the game he was being left off the NLCS roster, and to add insult to injury, he was heckled by a Phillies fan while giving an interview discussing the situation.

"How do you spell (stink) in Japanese?" the fan yelled.<<

2008-10-09 22:20:59
70.   milkshakeballa
Myself, along with Manny Rameriz, Joe Torre, every Dodger fan, every Philly fan, and every baseball fan thought it was over the fence the second it left his bat.
2008-10-09 22:21:21
71.   underdog
67 Not to the extent they do in east coast cities no, though I have a friend who works for a non profit housing group for poor people who say they deal with bed bug issues all the time. And back east it's really hit the big time. Was a story in the NY Times about it recently. It sounds like a made-up thing, but it's a very real nightmare.
2008-10-09 22:24:07
72.   Bob Timmermann
69
It's spelled "Taguchi"
2008-10-09 22:25:28
73.   Icaros
67

Yes. I still have nightmares. I don't want to talk about it. I will never be quite the same. I am not kidding.

2008-10-09 22:25:32
74.   LOB
72

awesome

2008-10-09 22:31:53
75.   underdog
Anyway, may the Phillies have bed bugs in their uniforms tomorrow. G'night all.
2008-10-09 22:32:35
76.   DBrim
They're pretty common in the northeast.
2008-10-09 22:33:17
77.   Bluebleeder87
72

oh man....

2008-10-09 22:34:22
78.   Crimson Bear
Kudos to Torre for a well managed game. Good decision to recognize the reverse Hamels split and start Loney. This was particularly a good move since you need to maximize infield defense with Lowe pitching. I also liked the decision to go with Kuo in the 8th. If the reporting is correct that Kuo can't pitch in back to back games I think a lot of managers would have saved Kuo for possible game 2 use to protect a lead but, as I'm sure most of you know, the studies indicate that one run down is one of the best uses for an ace reliever. I was not as high on Chan Ho or Maddux in that park but it didn't burn us this time

This was a tough loss. We got almost all the breaks against the Cubs (and also played brilliantly, of course) and this time they went the other way. I have a lot of faith in Bills and think we are looking at another tight one tomorrow

2008-10-09 22:35:59
79.   adrian beltre
hi guys, I was there tonight, and god was it not enjoyable. I had a work credential, so it was basically a standing room ticket, and the back ache from standing coupled with the always enlightening experience of taking in a game with drunk philadelphians wasn't fun. Why did torre pitch to utley with first base open? In the nlcs I don't belive you try to get an extra inning out of your starter after he struggled the close out the 5th. I wasn't expecting a win against hamels, but it looked like outs to steal. Can't wait for chad tomorrow. Night everybody
2008-10-09 22:36:56
80.   trainwreck
79
Adrian Beltre needs to sign with us for a decent three-year deal.
2008-10-09 22:37:36
81.   trainwreck
Ok, Testees must be Canadian, because I recognize two Canadian television actors already.
2008-10-09 22:39:42
82.   bhsportsguy
77 Check your email.
2008-10-09 22:39:59
83.   Andrew Shimmin
Why would you ever PH for Kuo?
2008-10-09 22:43:59
84.   LogikReader
79

Utley had been struggling in the post season going into this game, 2-15 in the NLDS. Personally I say you gotta take your chances. If you saw how that home run traveled, it would be an out in a lot of parks. It found just the right spot to qualify as a HR.

This is so unlike me, playing the optimist.

2008-10-09 22:46:00
85.   KG16
83 - because at the end of the day, he's still a pitcher. And unless he talks to Greg Maddux and John Glavine, he doesn't get to hit for himself in the ninth of a one run game.
2008-10-09 22:46:33
86.   Bluebleeder87
82

got it. see you sunday

2008-10-09 22:50:43
87.   KG16
The Phillies have scored 13 of 18 post season runs on home runs in five games. That, to me, does not seem like something that will ultimately be a winning formula. Think about it, two pitches tonight in slightly different spots and the Dodgers win 2-0. Funny game, baseball. The Phillies didn't really get anyone on base, and most of the time when they did, the next guy was kind enough to ground to one of our middle infielders. Lot of good things to take from this game. One of two is really all the Bums needed, with three back in LA (where rumor has it, the weather might actually start to cool in the next few days).
2008-10-09 22:58:17
88.   trainwreck
Testees is not very good at all.
2008-10-09 23:00:01
89.   KG16
88 - I made a conscious decision to stay away from comedies on FX. They tend to do dramas (Nip/Tuck, Rescue Me, Sons of Anarchy, Dirt, Riches) well, but with Always Sunny and the commercials for this one, that's where I draw the line.
2008-10-09 23:02:38
90.   trainwreck
89
I love It's Always Sunny.
2008-10-09 23:09:31
91.   KG16
i caught a bit of it last night after SoA, and it seemed forced and contrived. Just not my taste in comedy, I suspect.
2008-10-09 23:22:16
92.   Alice S
37
Seinfeld was filmed on, well, actual 35mm film, which has a much higher resolution than HD television. The original episodes were actually cropped down to 4:3 for broadcast back in the nineties.

A little late, but just sayin'.

2008-10-09 23:53:19
93.   DBrim
Accuscore is literally 50/50 for the next game.
2008-10-09 23:55:10
94.   underdog
Gosh The Office was wonderfully squirmy tonight. Love the Dwight being timed subplot.
2008-10-09 23:56:29
95.   DBrim
94 - They're trying too hard to get Ryan lines. The use of him in the episode wasn't very funny, but overall the episode was still decent.
2008-10-09 23:57:01
96.   LogikReader
You know what's a good antidote after a long night? Pizza!

Over on my site, LOCKS of the Week (linked on the right sidebar here on DT [Thanks Jon!!]), I've selected a pretty neat place over in SF.

Enjoy everyone! Let's go get 'em tomorrow!

2008-10-09 23:57:57
97.   JRSarno
After watching the highlights again, I feel like doing something rather useless, like blaming Joe Buck, or more aptly, the architects of that stadium. Who's the moron who created that inanely ascending ridge in dead center-field anyway?
2008-10-10 00:00:55
98.   Jacob Burch
I was giving friends from Wisconsin a tour of LA on the day, and thus saw the last two innings at Philippe's--them not being baseball people got scared as I yelled "Get outta here!" at the TV.

I did my best to entertain them after that, but all I could think of was "I hope Jon has something to calm me down before bed." Always the proper medicine, so thank you again.

I'll be pure DT and Gameday tomorrow at work--may sneak away to a pizza place near work that has TVs to catch an hour of the game, I just don't know which hour.

2008-10-10 00:10:18
99.   Eric Stephen
98
Dodger Thoughts: Providing Warm Milk Since 2002
2008-10-10 00:16:22
100.   trainwreck
96
Never had pizza from there before. I really need to go to Zachary's in Berkeley. Always go to Berkeley and always everyone is too messed up to make it there.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-10-10 00:23:35
101.   underdog
There are quite a few really good, new gourmet-ish pizza places in SF now, including Gialina in my neighborhood, and Little Star in the mission, competing with nearby Pauline's, as well as old Mission standby Arinell's. Mmmmm. I think I know where I'll be eating tomorrow, hopefully to celebrate the Dodger win. {fingers crossed, knock on wood, etc.}
2008-10-10 00:26:25
102.   Eric Stephen
Thursday's loss ended a 5-game Dodger postseason winning streak on October 9. The last October 9 Dodger loss was the final game of the 1966 World Series.

The Dodgers are 7-5 all-time on October 9.

The Dodgers, heading into Game 2, are 6-3 on October 10.

2008-10-10 00:26:49
103.   Jacob Burch
I think underdog wins the DT league in "G'Night" balks. Luckily with all the quality posting, I'm not going to complain.

Just something I used to do a lot in my insomnia-laden thesis days on other online communities.

2008-10-10 00:42:02
104.   Andrew Shimmin
94- Have you ever had sirloin steak, honey?
2008-10-10 02:30:54
105.   Benjamin Miracord
104 With Bozo's death on July 3 and Chucko's death last Saturday, you must be sleeping a little easier.
2008-10-10 05:10:45
106.   Sam PHL
Sorry guys, I'll take the blame for this one. I've gone to about 15 Phillies games this year and it seems that Burrell has homered in all of them. Fortunately, I won't be going today so I expect Billz to shut them down.

It was nice meeting up with kachang, Molly, and Zak before the game. It was a bit intimidating walking into the bar among the sea of red. We did see Andre Miller there, wearing a Dodger hat. That gave us some solace.

The game was tough. I haven't read through the game thread, but BH's comment referenced in this post is right on. Lowe looked completely dominating until the 5th. He was keeping everything at the knees and nothing was really hit hard off of him.

Off the bat, I really thought Utley's homer was going to be an easy fly ball. Burrell's homer was a blast. I thought a key to the game was Kemp's DP in the 6th. We seemed to be on the verge of knocking Hamels out of the game by running up the pitch count. I can't blame Kemp as it was pretty well hit.

Oh well, we'll get them today.

2008-10-10 06:53:48
107.   das411
Apparently there is a classic Harry Kalas call of the Burrell home run that the local radio news station played this morning, that goes something like his classic call:

"Long drive, could it beeee...OUTTA HERE!!! HOME RUN PAT BURRELL!!!!!"

Compared with Joe Buck's "drive to left, home run for burrell", I've gotta wonder what it would take to get someone calling these baseball games that actually enjoys watching baseball games??

2008-10-10 07:05:25
108.   Disabled List
Headline in the LA Times today:

"Dodgers aren't panicking as Phillies play it cool"

Yahoo Sports picks up the story and runs it, with a slight change in the headline:

"Dodgers are panicking after Game 1 loss"

http://tinyurl.com/4y6hy8

2008-10-10 07:26:19
109.   Dexter Fishmore
I'm a little surprised that no one has touched on this yet in this thread (apologies if I'm rehashing something that was in the game thread last night), but in my view, the game turned on a very obvious tactical error by Torre whose bad outcome was entirely foreseabble - namely, allowing Lowe to pitch to Utley.

At that point in the game, Lowe was no longer cruising: he'd given up hits to the 8th and 9th hitters in the Phillies lineup the previous inning. Victorino had reached 2nd on an error with nobody out. At that point, with Utley coming up, I believe that Torre needed to pull Lowe for a lefty, of whom there were three well-rested specimens in the Dodger bullpen.

Not because Lower couldn't have retired Utley, but because he didn't offer the best odds of retiring him, and couldn't in any event be expected to pitch another inning or so. That was an extremely high-leverage situation, with at least two good bullpen options available. Replacing Lowe with a rested lefty specialist was the clearly correct decision, not in hindsight - or rather, not just in hindsight - but at the time.

Torre then compounded his error with another, by leaving in Lowe after he surrendered the Utley home run. By then, Lowe was very obviously on his last legs - definitely tired, perhaps a bit rattled by the situation and crowd - and should not have been in there against Burrell.

Many things contributed to last night's loss, but when it came time to make tactical decisions at the most critical point in the game, Torre erred.

2008-10-10 07:37:46
110.   bagg4
I missed the game last night, but I saw highlights on Baseball Tonight. I don't know what game they watched but they talked like the Phillies had wrapped up the series. John Kruk doesn't care for Manny Ramirez, but he's got to get over it becasue it's clouding his judgment.

Game could have gone either way...good pitching and an untimely error. You win that way sometimes, sometimes you don't. A split in Philly is a good thing.

2008-10-10 08:04:21
111.   Jon Weisman
109 - I kind of agree with you, though it's a tough call. I mean, I did feel Lowe was losing it, but taking your No. 1 pitcher out when all he did that inning was allow an error - that's tough.

And yet, I still might have done it.

2008-10-10 08:05:49
112.   Bluebleeder87
although I didn't watch the first few innings DT's were saying we missed a few opps to score a few more runs. Todays game will probably be a little more intense (sp)...
2008-10-10 08:10:42
113.   Bluebleeder87
111

The only reason I totaly agree with you is because Lowe has a track record of messing up when things like Furcals error happen.

We know that but did Torre know that?

2008-10-10 08:12:58
114.   Sam PHL
113. Yeah, as I was in the middle of telling my friend at the game that Derek Lowe tends to self-destruct after errors, Utley hit the homer.
2008-10-10 08:20:31
115.   kachang
Hi all from Philly,

I think the game has been rehashed enough so I'll just comment on the Phillie fans.
Sam was right, it was nerve-wracking walking into chickie and petes, a 10,000 sf bar full of red, searching for a couple of dodger fans. I've never seen a place so one-sided and where everyone looks at you as if to say, "what in the world are you doing here with that blue hat on?". Maybe it also had to do with the fact that I was the only asian around for miles ... well other than Park, Kuo, and Stink (taguchi).

Inside the stadium was not that bad at all though. I got good natured heckling while walking around and going to the bathroom was not fun. The fans were good at repeating so and so sucks. And the intimidating looking 300 lb fan sitting next to me was in the end, a nice guy who discussed the game and players with me.

Lot's of chanting, moaning and groaning. I have to admit they are passionate fans. I've never heard so many heavy sighs after their pitcher throws ball 1. In the first inning!

Definite home field advantage there. I've never been to Dodger stadium for a playoff game, but I'm not sure I've heard a louder stadium than when they hit those two dingers in the 6th.

The only negative was when I was leaving the through the parking lot. I crossed paths with some drunk fans who were chanting, "Screw those F-ing Dodgers" and then one of them gave me a weak elbow shove after seeing my LA cap. I was walking out with my cousin who's from England and he laughed it off, comparing it to English soccer matches.

Very much looking forward to Chad today. I think the team looks solid (especially the pen) and I think we've got a great shot.

Go Dodgers!!!

2008-10-10 08:25:55
116.   Kevin Lewis
Am I the only one who thought "The Office" was a little flat last night?
2008-10-10 08:30:18
117.   CeyHey10
116 I just assumed it was because I was a little deflated after the defeat. But no, you're not alone, friend.
2008-10-10 08:36:39
118.   D4P
ERA splits for Brett Myers:

Home: 3.01
Road: 6.21

2008-10-10 08:39:34
119.   kachang
Oh and it was great to get to meet some other DT folks! Jinx or no jinx, hope you get to another Dodger game Sam!
2008-10-10 08:41:36
120.   Eric Stephen
I thought Lowe's pitch count was still looking good, and he is always a ground ball away from getting out of trouble. I can totally appreciate wanting to take him out there because he was struggling pre-HRs but I also get Torre wanting to let one of his aces work through his jam.

116
I purposely didn't watch The Office because I was not in a very good mood after the game.

I kind of like the early start today. Let's get that bad taste out of our mouths quickly and start this series (Doug Collins-style). This reminds me of the 1988 NLCS, because Game 4 ended after midnight on October 9, and was followed up by a noon start the next day. Of course, 4pm eastern time isn't really that early, but relatively speaking this is as close as we're going to get to following up a closing shift with an early one.

Let's go, Lord Chadwick!

2008-10-10 08:41:53
121.   Bumsrap
I enjoyed DeWitt continuing to make himself part of the Loney, Martin, Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, Broxton, Kershaw era.
2008-10-10 08:53:22
122.   oshea2002
Does anyone else find it odd that every writer/site etc. has us losing Manny, Lowe, Raffy, Blake, etc? Yet for occasional CC talk, I see us linked w/o no one. I guess I missed the memo where payroll was being cut in half after a playoff run.

I thought the Office was hilarious last night.

2008-10-10 08:53:43
123.   Eric Stephen
More positives from last night:

1) Kuo looked good. He had good velocity and movement. Not a bad outing after not pitching for a while

2) DeWitt had a couple nice fielding plays -- the two 4u-3 double plays and the nice range to get Rollins (??) in the 3rd.

2008-10-10 08:58:13
124.   regfairfield
I don't think you can blame Torre for leaving Lowe in, the guy has been nails since August, and would you really rather have Chan Ho in the game at that point?

Lowe made two mistakes in the game at that point, the hit to Hamels, and Utley's bomb, he didn't really look done at all.

2008-10-10 09:03:25
125.   Esquinazo
2 4 Way, way late to the party on this one . . .

I don't know if Charlie Manuel has Manny figured out, but he may think he does.

Manny's never liked being busted high and tight under the chin. When he was younger--when Charlie Manuel knew him--it used to take him out of whole at bats. Manny's learned to deal with it as he's gotten older, but I'm guessing Manuel still thinks he can get at him that way.

The Phillies couldn't do that last night because Hamels is a lefty, but with Myers today, as Vin would say, "we'll see."

When Manny was on the Red SoKKKs, he had people--Pedro Martinez, Josh Beckett, and even Curt Schilling--to look after that for him.

Hopefully today, someone on the Dodgers--that's you Billz--will man up and do the same.

2008-10-10 09:04:35
126.   Dexter Fishmore
124 Not Chan Ho, certainly, but I'd much rather have had Beimel or Kuo in. Isn't that what they're on the roster for, to retire lefty power hitters in high-leverage situations?

And it's not that Lowe was done - it's that he didn't offer us the best chance to get out of that inning, relative to the available bullpen options, and he wasn't going to pitch that much longer anyway. In the playoffs, you have to put side regular-season usage patterns. This means that in late inning, close-game situations, you use your bullpen aggressively to get the outs you need to get.

The cost of pulling Lowe too late far exceeded the cost of pulling him too early.

2008-10-10 09:06:23
127.   Eric Stephen
125
I don't think now is the time to risk suspension or ejection since its usually the 2nd guy that gets ejected in a beanbrawl.
2008-10-10 09:07:02
128.   regfairfield
126 But it was the righty Burrell that beat Lowe. The guy pounds lefties and isn't anything special against righties.

The options to face Burrell were Wade or Broxton. Broxton wasn't coming in, and I trust Lowe more than Wade.

2008-10-10 09:08:46
129.   Eric Stephen
126
I think it was reasonable to expect Lowe -- who was at or around the 80 pitch mark before facing Utley -- to pitch at least through the 7th.

It's hard to take a guy out just because Furcal's throw went haywire.

2008-10-10 09:09:19
130.   Eric Stephen
128
He was talking about Lowe being pulled before Utley.
2008-10-10 09:11:11
131.   Eric Stephen
I wonder if only throwing 90 pitches (and he really was cruising until the 5th) makes Lowe more likely to pitch Game 4 on 3 days rest.

But I don't want to think about Game 4 just yet. We have a Game 2 to win.

2008-10-10 09:11:33
132.   regfairfield
130 Oh, then there's no way you pull a guy that had allowed three hits and a walk up to that point.
2008-10-10 09:17:49
133.   D4P
Burrell hit .238/.351/.492/.843 vs. RH this season.
2008-10-10 09:19:07
134.   Bumsrap
Lowe's pitch to Utley didn't sink. Maybe the cause for the pitch not sinking had to do Lowe doing the thing we seem to despise most, not telling the Manager that he is injured. As stated in DT earlier, Lowe was jammed and was shaking his hand while trotting toward first in a previous inning. Could his grip or feel of the ball been affected by that jamming?

I understand that Lowe is not injured and that if anything, he just needed another 15 minutes to fully shake off the affects of being jammed. Or, maybe, he merely just hung, if you will, a sinker. That happens.

2008-10-10 09:19:52
135.   regfairfield
Which isn't that special for a corner outfielder in Philadelphia.

I also thought it was around .750, so I'm kind of covering for that.

2008-10-10 09:24:04
136.   Esquinazo
127 Yeah, definitely not beanball. Protection.

They're two different things.

(A shot across the the bow vs. a direct shot, for lack of a better analogy.)

2008-10-10 09:25:33
137.   Bill Simms
Regarding Lowe pitching to Utley, were either of the lefties warm already? I was thinking during the game that maybe he should be pulled but, unless someone was warming up at the beginning of the inning, he wasn't going to be ready to face Utley.
2008-10-10 09:29:19
138.   JoeyP
I think it was justifiable to pull Lowe for Beimel in the 6th to face back-back lefties in Utley/Howard. Its not likely there would have been a more higher leveraged situation to bring Beimel into.
2008-10-10 09:43:46
139.   Eric Stephen
If Clayton Kershaw ends up getting the start Monday, I believe he will be the 2nd youngest pitcher to start a postseason game, at 20 years, 208 days.

Bret Saberhagen was 20-175 when he started Game 2 of the ALCS against Kirk Gibson's Tigers.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/j9gQ

It would be interesting to have a game featuring the 2nd oldest starter (Moyer, 2nd to Jack Quinn) followed by a game with the 2nd youngest. Moyer is already the 2nd oldest starter thanks to his Game 3 start in Milwaukee.

Oldest list: http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/kT9E

2008-10-10 09:49:30
140.   Bumsrap
Regarding taking Lowe out, is there a compromise position that says Torre should have payed a visit to the mound before deciding to either leave Utley in or taking him out? If Lowe had gotten out of the inning with the Phillies scoring, would anybody being saying Torre really got lucky and the Dodgers should have lost the game based on Torre's decision to leave Lowe in?
2008-10-10 09:50:33
141.   underdog
103 Yah, speaking of insomnia, I had it after too much coffee + late soccer, plus the word pizza called my name. :-)

--
I didn't think The Office was flat last night, though there were some forced parts and it was no classic. I laughed and squirmed enough for me to find it an acceptable episode.

--

I'm glad the Dodgers play earlier today, too. Let's get it going, fuhgedabout yesterday.

2008-10-10 09:51:50
142.   Bumsrap
140 - I trust everyone can figure out what I was trying to say without me going back and adding the key word that makes my comment say what I was trying to say.
2008-10-10 09:52:19
143.   underdog
If Lowe had been removed early, and a reliever came in and gave up the ghost, we'd be second guessing it for sure. He lost it so quickly I think it was hard to foresee the need to take him out, since he'd been aces before that. It feels a little like 'hindsight is 20-20' to me.
2008-10-10 09:53:18
144.   Jon Weisman
140 - Like I said, I think it was a tough situation either way.
2008-10-10 09:55:48
145.   das411
And there will be time enough for the Zapruder Film approach to each game once the season ends. More important: does using him last night meen HONG CHI KUO is not available in a big spot today?
2008-10-10 09:59:07
146.   Eric Stephen
If Lowe had been taken out, I bet he would have had a look on his face similar to Tommy John in Game 6 of the 1981 World Series.

And that's the only time I ever want to mention a Dodger pitcher and Tommy John in the same sentence.

2008-10-10 09:59:18
147.   Bumsrap
145 - I think it means Torre will now use him in a critical situation with more confidence because Kuo showed he could again perform, whether it is today or Sunday.
2008-10-10 10:00:24
148.   underdog
Off subject, but is there anything sadder than seeing "went from being 'in a relationship' to 'single.'" in someone's Facebook update? I guess it depends on the situation. If it happens to me, I'll just remove that info from my profile altogether.

As you were.

2008-10-10 10:00:34
149.   Eric Stephen
145
Kuo only threw 10 pitches; unless they are playing it cautious with him I would imagine he's available today. But a lot will depend about how his arm feels today, the day after.
2008-10-10 10:02:05
150.   Eric Stephen
148
Even worse, there's that broken heart icon, sitting there taunting you and shouting your failures to the world.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-10-10 10:03:19
151.   fanerman
148 That happened recently to a friend of mine. There was much sadness.
2008-10-10 10:03:49
152.   Bob Timmermann
145
Look at Utley's hit.

Back

And to the right.

2008-10-10 10:06:24
153.   ToyCannon
Didn't seem like a tough decision to me. It never occurred to me to remove Lowe after the error considering the way he was pitching. For it to happen, Torre would have had to have Beimel warming up before the inning even started and the man had thrown 5 shoutout innings. Is that supposed to be his strategy, to get 5 good innings for his right handed starters and then burn his lefties every time Utley/Howard come up after that? This isn't Sept where you have the fake rosters and can burn through anyone you want. This is real baseball with a finite roster.
2008-10-10 10:10:38
154.   Alex41592
"Nice game pretty boy"

Always watch out for Roger McDowell behind the bushes.

2008-10-10 10:12:01
155.   Jon Weisman
149 - They said he won't pitch back-to-back.
2008-10-10 10:13:02
156.   Eric Stephen
155
Thanks. I did not know that.
2008-10-10 10:13:08
157.   Jon Weisman
Lineups:

Dodgers:

Furcal, SS
Martin, C
Ramirez, LF
Ethier, RF
Loney, 1B
Kemp, CF
DeWitt, 2B
Blake, 3B
Billingsley, P

Phillies:

Rollins, SS
Victorino, CF
Utley, 2B
Howard, 1B
Burrell, LF
Werth, RF
Dobbs, 3B
Ruiz, C
Myers, P

2008-10-10 10:21:19
158.   lurkingdodger
sorry guys, I can't handle watching the team lose such important games. I am going to leave the TV off, so I don't have to deal with another agonizing loss. I also quit watching them after they got swept 4 games by Philly, and after that they turned on the jet propulsion. Game 1 is more important than Game 7, though, and I tip my hat at Philly... my season as a fan is over. Even if the Dodgers roar back by some miracle, I will not watch another game. It's just easier that way.
2008-10-10 10:24:08
159.   Eric Stephen
Ever since the playoffs started, I can't help but view each play in my mind without thinking of the cheesy music that would accompany it in the team's season in review video. I'm thinking mostly of the classic NBA Entertainment videos from the 1980s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REWZU5E7mMg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUJrmcLQ0sk

2008-10-10 10:25:21
160.   Alex41592
159 - I own BOTH of those tapes!
2008-10-10 10:26:14
161.   Kevin Lewis
Is there a video link on the internet for the game today?
2008-10-10 10:28:10
162.   ToyCannon
158
I don't understand posts like this. Is the end result the only thing that matters and not how it occurs? I could understand if you are a gambler and the final score is the only thing of importance but if you are a fan what good is it to win if you didn't get to enjoy the high of the win. A box score you didn't get to enjoy is just a bunch of empty numbers.
2008-10-10 10:32:09
163.   Eric Stephen
162
Unless lurkingdodger is Neo of course.
2008-10-10 10:32:12
164.   underdog
158 Giving up after one game in a best of seven series? One game they were most likely going to lose anyway? That seems a bit melodramatic, but if it's too painful for ya to keep watching, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I kept the faith even after their 8 game losing streak and I'll keep it now during a 1 game losing streak. When they've lost 4, I'll turn it off.
2008-10-10 10:32:57
165.   wronghanded
162 I agree, even if we lose today, it doesn't look good but the series is still far from over. As a fan you owe it to yourself to ride the emotional highs and lows in the playoffs, thats what makes October so great.
2008-10-10 10:33:22
166.   Eric Stephen
160
I was trying hard to find a clip of the classic tune played in most of those videos, which is impossible to describe without audio.
2008-10-10 10:33:26
167.   underdog
163 Ah yes, and he took the blue pill this time. The story ends, he wakes up in his bed and believes whatever he wants to believe.
2008-10-10 10:33:55
168.   Disabled List
Accuscore has the game today as dead even, 50-50. The oddsmakers are making Philly a slight favorite.
2008-10-10 10:39:46
169.   Eric Stephen
1985 NLCS: Dodgers won first two at home, lost series (in 6)
1981 WS: Dodgers lost first two on road, won series (in 6)
1981 NLDS: Dodgers lost first two on road, won series (in 5)*
1978 WS: Dodgers won first two at home, lost series (in 6)
1965 WS: Dodgers lost first two on road, won series (in 7)
1956 WS: Dodgers won first two at home, lost series (in 7)
1955 WS: Dodgers lost first two on road, won series (in 7)

*5-game series

It's the playoffs. Comebacks happen.

2008-10-10 10:44:00
170.   Jon Weisman
Until service is broken or Game 7 arrives, this is definitely no time to panic.

Don't forget - the reason we want to get to the playoffs is to enjoy the thrill of them. If the goal is only to read about them afterward, the Dodgers have many world championships you can learn more about in the upcoming book, "100 Things Dodger Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die."

2008-10-10 10:45:09
171.   LogikReader
Bad news, fellas.

Phillies Manager Charlie Manuel's mother died just this morning.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3636366

2008-10-10 10:48:53
172.   Jacob Burch
Yikes. That has to be the most conflicting emotional thing to deal with I can think of--riding a all-time professional high and hitting such a more-important-than-sports-and-work wall. May he sort this out, somehow, however it can be.
2008-10-10 10:49:13
173.   Eric Stephen
171
That's awful news.
2008-10-10 10:50:25
174.   Bob Timmermann
171
That sucks. I was reading some profiles of Manuel before the series and he sounds like an interesting guy. He was never a big star in the US, but he was great in Japan and he learned a lot from playing there.

Walter Alston tabbed him as a future manager when he was in spring training for the Dodgers in his final years in the U.S. when he was pretty much just hanging around to qualify for his pension.

2008-10-10 10:50:28
175.   LogikReader
171

I hope everyone understands that when I said "Bad news" I meant bad news for the human condition, not "bad news for the Dodgers' chances to win."

Losing a loved one is so tough, and no less so for a MLB Manager. My thoughts are with both Charlie and his family. :(

2008-10-10 10:50:49
176.   Jon Weisman
Thanks, Logik. NPUT.
2008-10-10 10:51:02
177.   Kevin Lewis
158

Man, that is rough. I really enjoyed last nights game no matter what. I mean it was the NLCS for crying out loud. I didn't even expect this team to make it to the playoffs this year, so I am just going to enjoy the ride.

Oh, did anyone catch the SNL skit last night? The question about the Cubs was hilarious.

2008-10-10 10:51:14
178.   Jon Weisman
175 - It was understood.
2008-10-10 10:51:17
179.   jasonungar07
The error led to the loss simply cause of the run. That for me was just how well the game was played yesterday. A little bad luck and one mistake..But even today if we don't win I still would have lots of confidence. A win would be great. My feeling before it started was this will be 2-2 after 4.
2008-10-10 10:52:05
180.   Eric Stephen
On a lighter note, did it look to anyone else like Joe Buck was wearing lipstick last night? His lips seemed to have an unnatural color.
2008-10-10 10:54:05
181.   Disabled List
I understand the sentiment of being too nervous to watch an important game. Right before the bottom of the 9th inning in the clincher against the Cubs, I decided I needed to go to the corner store and buy a bottle of Gatorade. I think my nerves were compelling me to go more than any sense of thirst.

When I came back, it was 1 out and Brox already had 2 strikes on the batter. I still didn't breathe until the game ended, even though he was in control the whole way.

2008-10-10 11:36:45
182.   BlueMamma
I don't know... given how quickly Lowe tends to melt down once he's rattled, I'm not sure Torre should have sent him out to pitch the 6th at all. He was obviously losing it at the end of the 5th - I held my breath during the entire last at-bat to Rollins that inning, and that's a long time to hold your breath. He was crossed up, had obviously lost confidence in his pitches. When he came out to pitch the 6th, my husband and I both knew it was over.

Of course, I thought that he would be toast during game 1 against the Cubs when his defense failed him and he fell behind early, but he battled back there.

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