LAT'd from the last thread:

Here we go again,

East Coast ESPN (radio) condemning the Dodgers for not throwing back in Game 2. Brett Myers is now a marked man. I hate unwritten rules!

I was so fed up, I sent this email to ESPN:

"I am so sick of these stupid unwritten rules. You have to go [retaliate] with a guy in the same inning with two outs. I'm more interested in getting guys OUT. Yea Victorino isn't the best choice, but again, two outs, same inning.

For goodness sake, what do the Dodgers have to do? Throw at Chase Utley at every at bat? Get Juan Pierre to charge the mound? Get the whole team suspended by fighting the Phillies bullpen?! You can't risk losing players to ejections and suspensions. End of story."

Dodgers, don't give in to this junk... the bat is mightier than the sword!

Heeps? What's Dickens got to do with this? ;)

Manuel gets to choose Moyer or Blanton for game 7. Unless we REALLY shell Blanton tomorrow night, I'd expect to see him in game 7.

In my mind, tomorrow is a must-win with Hamels going on Wednesday. That game is not necessarily a must-win, but it'd really take the wind out of the Phillies' sails if we could take that one. Bills'll have a real shot for redemption in that game.

This reminds me... things are all good so I hate to bring up a negative but Ethier failing to move on that ball in the 7th made me crazy. I realize you can't let that ball get by you but that one was entirely catchable. He has been way too timid on line drives hit in front of him for quite a while now. It seems like last year he made several sliding catches on balls in front of him and then one got by him. Ever since then he has frozen on any ball hit in front of him. It looks to be some mental block and I wish he would break through it. That could have been a big inning.

What a good game tonight! It was nice to see the Orel ovation in addition to the Lasorda and Fernando ones. I really enjoyed that Davey Lopes completed the infield throwing out the first pitches tonight too.

I was at the game with my brother and niece, as well as Jacob Burch. We had a great time. I also had the pleasure of meeting sporky, as well as seeing bhsportsguy and dkminnick.

I hate to continue beating the Journey drum, but a funny moment happened when I told my brother Broxton would be even more effective if he had entrance music. I suggested the theme from Jaws, but about 1.2 seconds after the bullpen gates opened Don't Stop Believin' blared through the loud speakers. It was a total coincidence, but I thought it hilarious.

The good tidings continue tomorrow night. My collection of rally towels is growing by leaps and bounds this fall!

LAT'd:

Pitchers born in Japan, from Baseball Reference:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3wds2n

I didn't click on each one to see if they'd pitched with the Dodgers.

Accuscore has us as 66/34 favorites for tomorrow.

4 - The thing is, you can let that ball get by you. With a six-run lead, I'm willing to risk Howard getting an extra base or two if it gives me a good shot at getting an out.

If he didn't see it, that's one thing, but if he was being conservative in that situation, I'd rather he wasn't.

4
I haven't seen any replays, but on first view I didn't think Ethier had a chance on that play. I could be wrong of course, but I thought Ethier was just trying to trick the runner into thinking it could be caught.

IIRC, about 20 years ago, there was a Southern Cal-Arizona State baseball game in Tempe in which a massive brawl broke out. It was so out of control, state troopers (on-campus security) were called to the stadium to restore order.

8. Actually, you're right. You need outs and you can risk extra base hits to get them. Same reason you can throw a fastball strike to Ryan Howard in the same situation. If it were an isolated incident I'd chalk it up to getting fooled off the bat or the lights but it seems to be a trend with him.

Jon's post here throws over the head of this one, which had it coming:

https://mikesrants.baseballtoaster.com/archives/1159356.html

;-)

10 - Yeah, I remember that, and I do think it was around the early '90s.

Just got back from the game. It was a great victory and comforting from the start, not having to worry.

Being on the field for the flag ceremony was a feeling unlike any I've experienced. We were out there during the player intros and being in the center of the outfield with about 40,000 (at the start) and with everyone waving those towels, it was amazing. One woman who was also helping carry the flag was in tears - she said it was just great being out there, in the center of the stadium, with real Dodger fans. I got some great photos from that vantage point too.

13 - Sadly, ASU's baseball historian died in June. Otherwise, I'd ask him for details.

12

Man, I think we just renewed a big-time baseball rivalry. Do you think this will carry over into next season?

I get a kick out of how "bush league unsportsman like actions" are a show of courage, according to the East Coast. Um... I think beating the team 7-2 makes more of a statement.

14

That is AWESOME! Congratulations on getting the privilege to carry out that big flag!

I disagree Jon re. the extra security. Fights are a part of baseball. Now if it is a NASTY brawl and won't stop obviously you have to contain it, but for the most part baseball fights aren't too bad.

I'm somewhat torn by Manny's reaction to the whole third inning situation. On the one hand, I am totally in agreement with Jon and not wanting to see any escalations, any ejections, anything stupid out there. I wanna see baseball. We don't need Manny jeopardizing our chances in this series by getting ejected. But by the same token, I can't help but be impressed with his level of commitment. He's willing to mix it up, get Kuroda's back, and I gotta believe the chemistry in our locker room is at an all time high right now. Let's do this tommorrow!!! No Mercy!

18 - So you're on board with Manny getting ejected and suspended then, just for the fun of it. Because that's who was the closest to getting in trouble.

The early line for tomorrow nite is EVEN. Just a coin-flip away from an epic game 5.

Again, I'm not endorsing my idea 100 percent. I'm bringing it up for conversation more than anything. But if we don't really want the ejections, suspensions or injuries, should we do more to prevent them?

20 - From where on earth did you pull that sentiment, Jon? Seriously.
milkshakeballa disagreed with you on whether security is needed during baseball brawls, and from that you've determined whether msb doesn't care if Manny gets run?
Are you trolling your own board?

I'm not basing that assumption on our best player getting riled up and getting kicked out "for the fun of it." I'm saying, the umps can handle it, they handled it today (Manny DIDN'T get thrown and wasn't suspended), and usually the teams police themselves. Most baseball fights only have what maybe 8 or 10 people actually throwing punches...the rest of the team is trying to stop it. I'm looking throughout baseball history. These things just happen.

And I agree.....the chemistry in the locker room after the game today is probably at its best since the day before Loduca got traded.

I'm not basing that assumption on our best player getting riled up and getting kicked out "for the fun of it." I'm saying, the umps can handle it, they handled it today (Manny DIDN'T get thrown and wasn't suspended), and usually the teams police themselves. Most baseball fights only have what maybe 8 or 10 people actually throwing punches...the rest of the team is trying to stop it. I'm looking throughout baseball history. These things just happen.

And I agree.....the chemistry in the locker room after the game today is probably at its best since the day before Loduca got traded.

I think the Phillies had a plan -- and this isn't just me saying this, I heard a few scouts and Phillies reporters even wondering aloud about this -- to buzz Manny a few times, knowing he has a reputation of getting distracted, becoming temperamental if he perceives he's been purposely thrown at. I think they're trying to get inside his head, and Manny wanting to mix it up in that pseudo-brawl is perfect evidence of that. I appreciate his willingness to protect his teammates (and his own head) but think getting mixed up in a mess, a brawl, would fall right into the Phillies' trap. I think he, they, for the most part need to rise above that stuff and just play baseball. Winning games.

That said, I also agree with Jon that they had to do something, even if it's just a plunk pitch or throwing a few feet over Victorino's head. Are they supposed to get continually thrown at (Martin has been hit or thrown at at least 4 times in this series so far by my count) and take it like men? Again, it's a matter of judgment, as the umps knew pretty well, and as Martin understood (when he was later hit by that weak curveball he didn't get bent out of shape, despite Mike's Rant on the subject). But some of those others, well it adds up. Enough was enough. That's baseball. Time to move on. Don't let it get to you, Manny.

The only problem is: it's like the analogy often used in tort cases and foreseeability. To prevent an act of assault at a college campus for example, how can you really ever prevent it? Put up a Berlin Wall? Very difficult to forestall these types of things. In baseball, because there are SO many players involved, tempers escalating, and bullpens clearing, it begs the question of how many officiants/security personnel could even be enlisted to forestall these situations from inevitable escalation. I think the repercussions from the MLB are the greatest deterrent -- especially in moments such as these. As much as Manny may have been flaunting his bravado, I honestly cannot see him being stupid enough to cross that line with so much at stake.

The Brothers K at Blue Notes suggest Manny get Ozuna to DH for him in any fisticuffs. If Pablo's tossed, oh well.

I don't remember whether Ozuna's on the NLCS roster, though, which might make it hard to have that happen.

I agree Sarno. I really don't think Manny wouldn't have crossed the line. He was jut pumping his chest a little bit and letting Philly know he is pretty pissed off.

23/24 - No, it was a sincere reply. He's saying fights are a part of baseball. That's fine, but I'm not sure I'm buying that premise.

The umps "handled" it by the skin of their teeth. There's a clear choice here: leave it at 6-on-60 and hope for the best, or throw in a few friendly reinforcements and feel more secure that the best players in the game don't get suspended over some macho code.

I'm not trying to change the world and certainly not trying to demean anyone, but I feel it's a legitimate question. What's the reason for not letting security get involved? Is there a significant cost if a guy in a white polo shirt and black pants gets in between a Dodger and a Phillie?

22 I don't know what the position in America is, but i know that in the UK and Australia, professional sports people can take civil action, and have successfully done so, for violence committed on the field.

In rugby, which is a game involving constant violent physical contact, action has been taken for punches thrown by players that have caused serious injury. If someone really hurts someone with malice outside what's consented to as part of the game then that's the appropriate recourse.

But I think players must have the ability to stand up for themselves and their team mates to an extent. The game, like most good games, has an element of violence and intimidation about it: the takeout slide, the hard play at home. We don't want ice hockey, but some aggression is OK. As Crash Davis said 'fear and arrogance'.

I'd rather let players control the situation than security. If Manny is silly enough to get ejected and suspended then so be it.

26

Well said, underdog! This whole thing really is ridiculous. It's as if the Phillies knew they had weaker pitching (at least for starters), and figured they'd go with this junk to make up for it. So classless, and yet, so fitting.

30 one real problem would be if there was any violence between security and a player. Umpires know what they're about and players know the umpires. Security would run in as total strangers and try and restrain guys who are full of adrenalin. Knowing how security often are, things could get really ugly I think.

14 I was also very privileged to be on the field holding the BIG flag. It was one of the best experiences I have ever had at a Dodger game. I was a "puller" which meant I ran toward the outfield wall as the singer (who was awesome)was being announced. Having the chance just to run (fast walk) where a Major League game would be taking place was a tremendous feeling.

I got a few good pictures but my most found memories will be hearing/seeing the crowd go crazy as Manny, Martin, and Nomar were announced.

Obviously the chance to do anything on the field does not come very often, but if you ever have the chance, jump on it. It is truly and indescribable feeling.

Who do you guys think would win in a brawl between Bowa and Lopes?

35 Mariano Duncan:)

28 I like the idea of sending all of the guys in the dugout not on the playoff roster in the event of a brawl. Sweeney, I am looking for you to do some damage.

0 "knives drawn, Jets and Sharks"

actually if you were following on Fox's hot corner one of the shots was of Manny walking out of the dugout snapping and swaying from side to side

33 I agree. Those security guards are used to taking out drunk people running around not professional athletes.

cycle? (does it count if Jon is asleep?)

34 where were you on the flag? I pulled also. I was at the very front, the second person on the line. If you looked at the flag, I was on the top left corner, over the 1st star.

Well, it was just a thought...

When you're a Dodger,
You're a Dodger all the way
From your first hit-by-pitch
To your last dyin' day.

When you're a Dodger,
If the spit hits the fan,
You got brothers around,
You're a family man!

{snap snap snap}

i have vague memories of an incident between a security guard and a pitcher or catcher in the bullpen at Yankee stadium a few years back?

41 I was on the opposite end. I was in right field, about 10-15 people from the corner. It was a really great experience, as I'm sure you will agree. One other benefit was the fact that we had about an hour to kill between rehearsal and "production" so I was able to check out batting practice in center field and Autograph Alley.

I also had a close up view of Kuroda and Martin warming up (separately) in the outfield before the game.

Where's Bob T? Didn't he attend the game, and shouldn't he be back by now?

46
I heard he's partying at Manny's house.

44 I remember now; Jeff Nelson and Karim Garcia were involved in some unseemly incident with a Boston security guard.

47 I shoulda known.

Does anyone think the Dodgers chose Victorino because he was allegedly stealing signs from the catcher during game 1?

Wow, Plaschke and Simers sure know how to write those articles quickly! Their takes on tonight's events are posted at the LA Times web.

What a game.

I have to thank bhsportsguy for giving me a ticket and a ride - I probably owe him a kidney. And it was great to finally meet a few DTers (Jacob Burch, Eric Stephen, Bob T, dkminnick, and Bluebleeder87)!

No...I think they picked Vic because he was the guy up with 2 outs and nobody on.

"I'm not the team leader," he says, now kidding himself as well as everyone else. "I don't have a 'C' on my jersey as captain. Maybe next year."

:) Coe on back Manny! At a discount! :)

I had really hoped to see some retaliation for the sign-stealing in game 1. I think the inside pitching thing is small potatos compared to sign stealing.

By the way, I like how the Dodgers pitched Rollins inside during the at bat before Victorino's.

Lastly, what the heck did Victorino and Kuroda say to each other?

55 Victorino: "Hey bruddah, don't talk stink."

Kuroda: "So, Victorino-san. Don't stand on the plate."

55 agreed; but they've been in there on J-Roll all series because he bats really close to the plate he takes some inside strikes because they are not in his hitting zone.

A very astute from Dodger Blues:

"Can you imagine being Joe Torre in that situation? You're trying to calm your players down, looking for help from your coaches... until you realize two of your coaches are Mariano Duncan and Larry Bowa—the most mentally unstable guys in the stadium."

31 Please see:

http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/creed/Law/Hackbart.html

31 Please see:

http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/creed/Law/Hackbart.html

#33 - Blake DeWitt ... "locked in" at the plate.
The kid's a ball player sure 'nuff
Lots of clutch rbi's
Love it

51 Wow, Plaschke and Simers sure know how to write those articles quickly! Their takes on tonight's events are posted at the LA Times web.

Well, ahem, our own Jon Weisman isn't exactly a potted plant. That's quite an opus at 0 .

Inside Joe Torre's dreams tonight:

Blake DeWitt = Scott Brosius
Andre Ethier = Paul O'Neill

I hope that tonight doesn't fuel the phillies though, and that they don't take Kuroda's throw at Victorino and use back against us as bulletin board material..

I also hope we don't get too comfortable after teeing off on Moyer, because i think Blanton can be dangerous..

A win was wonderful though, and I do like our chances...I hope the Ravine is rocking and that we can keep the mojo going

I wonder if Casey Blake will be benched on Monday? He has only 1 hit in 21 at bats against Blanton. Both Nomar and Khent have had some success off Blanton

65 - Re Kent, I think you need to go with your stronger infield defense. Wait...that means Berroa starts at 2nd. Nevermind.

I like this quote from Moyer, talking about the Dodgers lineup (from today's NYT):

"To me, they're like a school of sharks, kind of on the prowl," he said. "And if you can keep — kind of keep them all separated in the pool, you know, it's a great way to go after them. But when they kind of swarm together and they see the blood in the water, I think they attack and they do a very good job of it."

http://tinyurl.com/48vjhm

In terms of security intervening, I would think that they would need them to make sure, more than ever, that the fans don't run on the field. The last thing that they need is fans going onto the field during a brawl and getting a Pacers-Pistons situation.

Nobody wants to see anybody get hurt, but with the way the Philly pitchers were keeping the Dodger hitters off balance and uncomfortable with pitches being thrown all around them, the Dodgers had every right to retaliate and make those Phils hitters just as uncomfortable. It was Bills duty to protect his teammates and he failed to do so. I'm sure he probably regrets not doing so, even if it was just to send the message that if you throw at our hitters you're going to get it right back. This would have at the very least made Philly less comfortable stepping into the batters box and might have changed the outcome of that game. Either way with the win last night the Dodgers now know it's still anybodies series and I expect them to play with more intensity.

Do you offset your carbon footprint? Well, now you can offset your infidelity, too! When you cheat on your significant other, you can neutralize your indiscretions by paying a small sum of money to Cheat Neutral, who will then use that money to pay faithful couples not to cheat. (SFW, except for the use of one word that refers both to a rooster and a part of male anatomy).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW2Qwy4gYgg

All this talk about how the Dodger pitchers "should've taken care of it Friday..."

Are the Dodgers down on Billingsley for not throwing a retaliatory strike (or ball)? It sounds like the Dodgers are down on somebody specific for not throwing a brushback at the Phillies last week.

Some thoughts:

1) Jimmy Rollins has looked AWFUL all series. Like, he's completely forgotten how to swing at a baseball, or tell balls from strikes. It's just painful.

2) We should be winning every game because of this. I hate that we've pretty much contained the top of their line-up and we're down 2-1 in this series because we got killed by their 8 and 9 hitters in game 2.

3) I can see what Jon's saying, and I'm not opposed to having security on the field. I was absolutely expecting one of their mop-up relievers to throw the ball at Manny's head in retaliation for the Victorino thing just to see if he would charge the mound and take a swing--which he most certainly would have done at that point. Because if random guy gets suspended and Manny gets suspended, it's a huge plus for the Phillies.

Thing is, I don't really know if a security guard would be able to stop that. It seems like most brawls start within a couple of seconds. Assuming the guard isn't standing right there on the mound, I don't know how he stops Manny from clocking that pitcher.

Jimmy Rollins was pretty mediocre all season long. Actually, his 2007 season was really the aberation: 2008 was much more in line with the rest of his career numbers.

IMO Kemp looks very tentative at the plate. Maybe it's over coaching or maybe he doesn't have the confidence that he should, but it looks like he's afraid to really put a hurtin on the ball. I'd just like to see him take a full hard swing when he's ahead in the count instead of trying to place the ball. He's a big powerful dude and his swing should put the fear of god into the other team.

75 - edited

75. ToyCannon
It is easy to retaliate up 7-1 and throw at the head of the smallest player in the linup. Real balls shown by the Dodgers there. I guess Martin didn't want to bounce off of Howards thighs when he went to go tackle him.

Getting a ball thrown at his head and complaining about his complaining. Give me a break. That's his life and it wasn't a 84 mile an error patsy ball that hit Martin but a Kuroda fast ball. Victorino had every right to speak up. They had 3 opportunities to nail Myers in the last game and instead they gave up three hits. This is the NL not the AL where if you want to respond to a message, reply to the people responsible in the 1st place.

75 /76 ... They had 3 opportunities to nail Myers in the last game and instead they gave up three hits. ...

Bingo.

That's the take-away point for tonight's game.

Myers is a good pitcher who uses intimidation as a part of his repertoire. He got a free pass.

Blanton is a so-so pitcher who uses intimidation to compensate for his other issues.

The onus is on the Phillies to knock it off.

Do we get warnings before the first pitch tonight?

Do we get James Loney tonight?

I think it's squashed. Let's play ball.

Maybe Billz was worried that if he threw at Myers he'd get tossed. Does there always have to be a warning beforehand?

80 I can't believe people are trying to imply he should run the risk of hitting a guy who hit .071 in the regular season, in a game where you're down 0-1. That's just crazy.

Yeah, I really don't think you can complain about Victorino, he handled it as well as he could have. "You can hit me, just not in the head" seems like a very reasonable request.

...and their fans will feel heeps better...

An under the radar Danny Heep reference!

80 - That was my thinking on Billz' defense. As bad as he was in Game 2, he's still not somebody we want serving a suspension instead of starting Game 5. I think the Dodgers handled it about as well as these things can be handled. We definitely do not want a starter suspended, and our least valuable reliever, Greg Maddux, doesn't throw hard enough to send the right message. [smiley]

If baseball had goons, none of this would be an issue.

I think extra stadium security would be excessive only because baseball fights, more often than not, are more comical than dangerous. Every now and then you'll get your classic Nolan Ryan beatdown of Robin Ventura, but ballplayers are more likely to get injured sneezing, washing a truck, carrying deer meat, falling asleep in a tanning bed, or playing Guitar Hero.

Is there any word on Romero? I remember Vin saying something about his doing a little jig after striking out Ethier to end the 8th inning, and turning an ankle in the process. Why in the world would he be celebrating at a time like that?

The Dodgers are upset with Bills for not sticking up for them. It's something WE cannot comprehend because while we sit at our computers commenting on the game, they're the ones PLAYING it.

The Dodgers are upset with Bills for not sticking up for them. It's something WE cannot comprehend because while we sit at our computers commenting on the game, they're the ones PLAYING it.

85

That's funny. My father, with his infinite hatred for all things Boston, wondered aloud why in the Florida where there are goons aplenty, aren't the Red Sox getting beat up at their hotels. I think he was serious too.

85 Exactly. We should have made a roster spot available for Marty McSorely.

86 You left out closing a car door on your hand :)

[92}

apparently, I also left out "celebrating a strikeout down 5 runs in the 8th inning". Shades of Bill Gramatica...

87 Don't know if they showed that on TV but he definitely walked off the field with a serious limp. It looked to me like he was celebrating but when he started grimacing and limping I wasn't sure if the jig was one of pain or if he hurt himself doing a happy dance. If it was the latter... my most sincere HAW HAW.

My point is that Victorino should make his justified complaint to his teammate who threw at Martin's head.

I think we are all missing the point here, which is that Kevin from The Office was at the game last night.

It's amazing that he's able to go out by himself and be such a functioning part of society. :)

I dont really think there's a need for "sticking up for your teammates".

If a Dodger gets hit, he should be happy about it because he gets to go down to 1st base. He doesnt make an out. Thats a good AB.

Meanwhile, it doesnt make much sense IMO to have the Dodger pitcher hit guys & put the other team on base.

I also dont think any batter should make a fuss about being hit, or being nearly hit. Baseball pitchers have the right to throw any pitch in any direction. Thats what batters helmets are for.

96 - So true!

97 - So true!

97 Except getting hit with a baseball freaking hurts. I've taken some pretty good shots while umpiring youth games. I can't imagine what it feels like to be hit with a pitch in the 90s.

And Brian Baumgartner had his name spelled correctly on DiamondVision, while last year they put up "Hayden Paniteri."

The Phillies have fewer Hollywood celebrity fans, although it would be interesting to see if the two most notable Phillies fans: Ben Bernanke and Samuel Alito would show up on the video board.

But both guys are a bit busy now.

97
You're right, the robots on the field should only strive to achieve the prime directive.

101
I went to grade school with a Brian Baumgartner...To whom do you refer...?

To the Phillies: You can't have your cake and eat it too!! By going after our catcher and Kuroda's battery mate Russell Martin, is when they went too far. The Dodgers finally retailiated the next inning but did it when there was the least likely chance of sparking a rally with 2 outs and no one on base. If anything, that pitch was so far over his head, it had no chance of hitting him. It was a message pitch without the intention of hitting the man.

* The Phillies didn't relaize the Dodgers secret weapon last night: My wife and I in the stands! We are now 10-0 in games we have attended this year alone. We are just 2-3 when going with friends and/or groups. Just the two of us went last night running our record to 10-0. We can't make it tonight, hopefully Lowe and company can do it without us! We are trying to get tickets for Wednesday thinking the Dodgers will need all the help they can get against Hamels and Co. on Wednesday.

Oh, and I just wanted to give big props to the fan that flipped off a couple of kids in Phillies hats last night in the parking lot. Good job staying classy and all!

103
See 96

the Dodgers will need all the help they can get against Hamels and Co

The Phillies's starting pitching really is remarkably bad outside of Hamels, especially for a team that won 92 games and finished in first place.

With all of this talk of Baseball brawls I am surprised nobody has brought up the Chan Ho flying kick of years gone by. Coming all the way from the bullpen he would get a really good running start.

102- If all ballplayers were like Carlos Quentin, the game would be better. Thats true.

106
Oh. He doesn't appear to be "my" Brian Baumgartner.

This was Tony Jackson's take on that, FWIW (from last night's post):

>>I feel bad for Chad Billingsley. He is a great kid and a great pitcher who has been caught in the middle of something that frankly isn't his fault, and for some reason, Fox kept showing tight shots of him in the Dodgers' dugout tonight during a game he wasn't even involved in other than as a supportive teammate. Yes, he should have retaliated in Game 2 for what happened to Martin and Manny. But no, he didn't commit some sort of affront to all that is sacred about this grand, old game. This stuff appears to be over now, and this series appears to be shaping up as one for the ages.<<

For just a brief while, when I first heard the rumor that someone from the Office was responsible for Fire Joe Morgan, I kept imagining it was Brian Baumgartner for some reason. I still picture that being how all their bloggers look, even though it isn't.

The Phillies should have thrown at Jeff Kent. He's 40! He's a man! He can take it!

this series appears to be shaping up as one for the ages

Because the home team won each of the first 3 games, in non-dramatic fashion...? Sheesh. Someone's easily excited.

That was a fun, fun time out at the stadium last night. In a general sense, the Dodgers had to retaliate against the Phillies obvious attempts to intimidate the Dodgers over the past 2 games. The particulars in this case aren't important other then Kuroda doing a brilliant job of backing Victorino up, but then getting him out. The Dodgers were too smart to actually put him on base, got to love that.

But Ken Tremendous = Mose Schrute, which is funny enough.

I'm sure I'm not the first to mentioned this, but I want to "thank" all of the fans on the field level in the infield who beat the traffic last night. Glad you all able to get home by 9ish.

113
Right on, pardner. Jeff Kent takes more punishment washing his truck.

Hey all, can't go to the game tonight so if anyone wants my tickets, let me know. They're in Loge 161 Row L. I'm selling them below what I paid for them $150 for both - email me at jjlacs at hotmail dot com. I can email them to you. Thanks and sorry for the commercial.

114 He probably didn't have any elevator issues for a couple of days so he's in a good mood. Anyway, hey, I'll take it - better than him pronouncing the Dodgers dead melodramatically.

111 That's the thing I'm worried about, I really hope Chad hasn't lost the respect of a lot of his teammates.

121
It's nothing a strong 7 innings Wednesday can't cure.

121 I doubt that's the case, but coming up big on Wednesday will be more important then anything else.

I hope no one has been affected by that fire near LA this morning. Sounds bad. Hope the game isn't too smokey tonight, too. Crazy fire up here overnight, too, on Angel Island of all places, put a lot of ash in the air. Damn those Santa Anas.

121 I'm not sure that Chad was around long enough to throw any beanballs at people.

Dear Fox,
Please don't have Mary Hart read the Dodgers line-up ever again.

Sincerely,
All Dodger Fans outside of the Hart fanily

I didn't get a chance to watch the game until the 6th. Did he ever have a chance to retaliate at Howard, Utley, Burrell with a base open? You can't throw at Myers unless you have a huge lead that's just insanity if you want him to do that.

I don't know if this was brought up the other night, but David Price on Saturday got his first major league postseason win, despite not having a regular season win to his credit.

Shades of K-Rod (5 postseason wins in 2002).

126
Did Mary have a hard time delivering the lineup? I didn't see it.

She probably should have dropped a Troy from WV reference; that's comedy gold.

85 - Somewhere Kevin Mitchell's sixth sense goes off...

107 - oo good one, my turn:

"The Dodgers' offense really is remarkably bad outside of Manny, especially for a team that won 84 games and finished in first place."

Also, tonight, how many innings does Lowe have to go before we can start speculating about starting Kershaw over Billz in Game 5?

113

Bravo! Well played.

127 No, he was barely in the game at all, not long enough to retaliate, and certainly not while he was struggling with control. It makes zero sense.

129 No, she just wasn't interesting at all. And... she's Mary Hart! They got Danny DeVito and we got Mary Hart.

Actually, I was pretty impressed by how many fans stayed past the end of the game to celebrate just winning Game 3.

130 Eh, it's sorta true. Except their offense - statistically - was NOT just Manny for the last two months of the season. If it was, they still wouldn't have made the playoffs. Clearly he is far and away their best offensive player though, so I guess the analogy sort of works. Also I personally think Myers is a pretty good pitcher, too, the 2nd half of this season, though he doesn't scare me like Hamels does.

The Dodgers' offense really is remarkably bad outside of Manny, especially for a team that won 84 games and finished in first place.

I have no intention of defending the Dodgers, but this doesn't really compute. LA had the 15th best record in the MLB, and (arguably) the best pitching staff. Why would anyone expect, then, that their offense would be good?

One wouldn't. One would almost inevitably conclude that their offense must have been pretty bad, which, in fact, it was.

Also, tonight, how many innings does Lowe have to go before we can start speculating about starting Kershaw over Billz in Game 5?

I don't think anyone's that foolish.

124 You get Santa Ana's in SF? I did not know that.

What's with that weird toe dance thing that Loney is doing with his front foot lately while hitting? I wonder what the purpose is behind it, maybe to help him stay back? I don't think that's a problem for him since he sprays the ball around pretty well.

136
Chip Caray would be very disappointed in the Dodgers team OPS with two outs.

I hate disappointing Chip Caray.

Sorry if this has been posted already, but Manny's career numbers off Blanton: 14 for 25 - 1.320 career OPS. This year he's 6 for 13 with a HR.

0 Great post, Jon. I couldn't believe Victorino had the gall to yell at Kuroda about throwing at his head when the Phillies have been throwing at our players all series. I don't like headhunting, but the irrationally angry part of me loved it when Kuroda sailed one over his head.

I took issue with how the Sportscenter guys (I know, what a surprise) made light of Manny's enthusiastic response - after all, he had a ball thrown behind him in game 2, it seems to me he had reason to be steamed. Thank God that someone was there to hold him back, though.

Btw, I've been moving and internet-less the past few days (and living without Dodger Thoughts during the NLCS is a terrible, terrible ordeal), but I can't stand how Tim McCarver calls out Manny for being despicable, but says not a word about Brett Myers, who is a scum bag of the highest order.

Mary Hart should feel bad she didn't throw at Shane Victorino.

Not much to add to this conversation...all angles have been covered.

So, did anyone notice the Reserve Level section right behind home plate? It was practically empty all night. Was it reserved for the extra press? The few people sitting there seemed to be dressed more formally than the rest of the crowd.

139

The only thing I can think of is that it's a timing mechanism.

144
Section 5 is the auxiliary press box.

Re: Billz. In these situations, does the manager or pitching coach play a role. For all we know, given how wobbly he was pitching, Torre/Honeycutt might have told Billingsley "don't try anything."

And why is all the focus on Billz and not the relievers who followed him.

What's Torre's history on beanball wars from NY days? Maybe he thinks his team should be the bigger men until the provocation becomes extreme, as it did last night.

At that point, I think the fastball aimed near Victorino's head was perfect. He got out of the way, but it scared him and probably scared his manager. Plus it got the umpires involved.

I think it could be a turning point, emotionally. I hope they've taken the measure of Joe Blanton. They can't let that guy ever get comfortable.

Loney is no doubt in at 1B vs Blanton tonight, so does Blake's #'s vs Blanton mean Nosemar is in the lineup at 3B tonight? I think Blake will still get the call, but I wouldnt be surprised to see Nosemar penciled in.

148 Actually, being on SNL still does not supercede Rule 5.

148, edited -

148. seesdifferent
remarkably bad offense as of July: with the remarkably helpless Andruw Jones and without Manny and Raffy.... no leadoff man, no cleanup hitter, while featuring a record breaking whiff machine who wasn't hitting within 50 points of his weight. So what does that July offense have to do with the October offense? Hmmm.

138 I'm sure they're not called Santa Anas here - but the same kind of hot, sundown wind. They're called different things in different places. And of course they're much rarer here than down south, but still happen, especially this time of year. In Sta Barbara I think we called them Sundowners. "Hella hot" is also accepted here.

Jon:

...But until the Dodgers sent a Phillie spinning to the dirt, nothing was going to stop Philadelphia from continuing to make the Dodgers duck and cover.

[with emphasis] I am not endorsing hitting people with pitches. I am not endorsing throwing at someone's head.

I'm not TRYING to be fastidious here, but that does sound like a bold contradiction.

You desire a certain outcome (peace), and rationalize the means of achieving it (retaliatory bean ball), then reject it (bean balls) in principle.

Since there is a big difference between actually beaning a batter, and buzzing a batter, your phrase "spinning in the dirt" leaves your meaning vague, (perhaps intentionally) as McCarver did by employing the term "buzzing", out of a desire to not appear uncivilized, yet tacitly actually approving of the bean ball.

Are you, or are you not, in favor of beaning a batter under certain circumstances?

Either way is fine by me. But it's confusing as a reader to try and make sense of an approval, then a denial of that approval in the very next sentence. It's as if you want to have it both ways.

I wish we were talking about the incredible game and that wild 1st inning other then who did what to whom related to pitch location.

147 Even if that wasn't the case wouldn't that be the common sense thing to say to the media to protect Billingsley?

Like, "Hey, I told him don't do anything foolish this game is too important." Even if you didn't say that it takes heat of Billingsley in the media and clubhouse. There's a way to protect your game 5 starter from any of that crap.

wish we were talking about the incredible game

I didn't watch it. Was it really an incredible game, or do you just mean you're happy the Dodgers won?

154 - What's stopping you? I talked about both in my post.

Sometimes I wonder where some people find joy in their comments.

I had an absolutely incredible time at the game with great company abound. It is sort of fun watching such an event as a bullpen clearing, though I doubt its worth the aftermath of backwash useless commentary.

Blake DeWitt made Picture of the Game on the livejournal community I made, not Victorino. What a fun inning.

I was wondering why DeWitt got a triple and not a double + FC. He didn't look like he was going to go to third until the throw went through.

153 - As a fan, it would have been fine by me to see the Dodgers not retaliate, because I don't believe in it. But had the Dodgers not retaliated, I don't know that the Phillies would stop throwing high and inside.

The first reflects my personal preference. the second reflects my interpretation of reality.

I'm hoping none of this is part of tonight's game.

159 - Really, I thought triple all the way - but I didn't see a replay.

159
When you keep score, do you enter the official scoring or your own interpretation?

162

Bob scores based on what he thinks should have happened. For instance, Jack Clark never hit a home run in the '85 NLCS.

I really think the Dodgers handled things perfectly. During game 2 it never really entered my mind that the Dodgers needed to retaliate. I was just thinking they need to get the game under control. Billz never had a chance. As much as I can't stand McCarver, I felt he had great points. Billz looked great, but maybe the pitch selections are what led to his departure. Yesterday he stated it was important to buzz the Phills, but not hit a man. Hiroki throwing it where he did was perfect, it rattled Vic big time, while he could have stood straight up and still not been hit. In my mind, Vic has been the MVP for the Phills this NLCS. He really didn't look good after that at bat. Game 3 was the right time to retaliate.

I believe that Billz is fine with his teammates. I think it's just another storyline for the media. The best thing Torre could do, and maybe he already did, is to take Manny and maybe some of the other "vets" asside and explain the game 2 situation to them. Explain it wasn't Billz fault, he wasn't in a position to retaliate and that he was instructed not to retaliate at that moment. Deflect any blame from Billz to Torre whether Torre ever said anything to Billz or not.

Bob scores based on what he thinks should have happened

An infinite series of CIs...?

156
The first inning had enough intrigue to fill out any journalists card. The fact it was a successful Dodger 1st inning certainly made it an incredible game. Blake DeWitt besting a man twice his age in the postseason. How often has that happened? The game was still in doubt when Wade came in and did what he's done all year long. A three run jack and the pressure starts to tighten.

The Dodgers have now gotten solid performances from four players who had never played in a major league game until this year. Usually these players will have smelled the coffee in Sept callups but Wade and DeWitt were so far removed from the idea of helping in 2008 they were ignored. McDonald and Kershaw were shut down for pitch count reasons. This is unusual. Very unusual for postseason play.

Any ideas why the Dodgers have had so much early inning success in the NLCS? They've scored all of their runs in the first four innings. 8 of their 14 runs have been in the first two innings.

Maybe they've had good game plans to open the game, but then fall away from them as the game progresses...?

155 exactly

166 It is indeed unusual, good call. And it gives me hope for the future, regardless of what happens the rest of the post-season. Separate from some of the Dodger free agent questions, I have a lot of faith in their future based on what I've seen from Kershaw, McDonald, DeWitt, Wade, Broxton, plus Martin, Loney, Ethier, Kemp, Bills, etc. Question marks are a-plenty, but there's no question that they'll compete for some years to come.

167
Manny batting 3rd might have something to do with it, but that is just a wild guess. No one wants to walk the dangerous hitter in the 1st inning unless forced to because of an open base.
Joe Blanton will walk Manny tonight.

169
Come now, optimism for the future while playing in the NLCS! Those who can only deal in negatives will not want to hear such possibilities. If their mental makeup does not allow them to enjoy the current postseason they will instead focus on what the team will look like in 2009 based on mass free agent exodus.

169
Bhsportsguy was the 1st to point all this out. I'm strictly a repeater of useful information.

139 Re: Loney's toe tap. Loney is doing that little toe dance thing for 2 reasons, first it helps a batter to keep his weight on his backside by landing early and lightly on his frontside. Secondly, he is pointing his front toes towards his body in an effort to avoid pulling off of the baseball, his foot only opens back up when his hips rotate during swing delivery. I personally have liked that approach for Loney, I think it will reduce his 4-6-3 DPs.

169 DeWitt's positional flexibility gives us an advantage in our offseason planning. We can focus on adding a quality 2b OR 3b knowing DeWitt is able to play either position. I love him at 2b, but handing him the hot corner and going after a 2b [not to mention Hu, DeJesus, or Abreu] is also fine with me.

I'm going to the game tonight!!! Woohoo!

Thought I'd never get the chance to go this postseason, but the planets aligned for me.

Looking forward to the win...

162
I reflect the official scoring of the game.

I'll be in Reserved 1 tonight as opposed to Loge 166 last night, so watching plays develop will be a lot easier.

Sadly, I will miss all my friends in the Algonquin Round Table that are in that part of the stands. I play the part of George S. Kaufman.

166 Corey Wade is becomming one of my favorite players. I think you could make an argument that he has been just as or even more valuable to the Dodgers this year than Manny. The guy is amazing. Just a kid from AA. He comes in when things are tense and spinning out of control, but he looks as calm as could be, as if he's been doing it for 20 yrs. As soon as he steps on the mound everything seems to calm down almost instantly. Remarkable.

My alltime in person postseason record is now 4-5.
I started off 0-2 after World Series losses in 1977 and 1978. Then after 1981, I was 2-3. Then there were losses in 1995 and 1996.

176
I reflect the official scoring of the game

Even when you object? (Nay, strenuously object?)

177 I hate to say it but Wade might eventually be a great back-end starter. He doesn't throw hard but his usual pin-point control and ++curveball would probably fit well into a #4 or 5 type role.

180 watching last night, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

181 I believe he throws a pretty good change too.

I am extremely excited about the possibility of the Dodgers being tied 2-2 in the NLCS after tonight. My voice is still a little rough from yelling and screaming at the TV last night. The first inning was awesome.

As for throwing at players, I have no real problem with it one way or the other. Some people have already pointed out the strategic aspect of it, with which I agree-- that is, it's a way to get the other team to stop throwing pitches so far inside on your guys. What I was desperately afraid of was Manny going out there and getting suspended. Ugh.

Very exciting stuff, this series.

DS mentioned in the WSJ today:
"Restaurant 15, located near Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles, plans to shut later this month. Open for about a year, the restaurant has seen its revenue on weekend nights cut in half since June, says Alex Eusebio, the executive chef and part owner. He has laid off more than half his wait staff in the last month."

I was thinking triple for DeWitt because of how far Werth was shifted over. It would have been a close play, but it wasn't out of the realm of possibility. I loved that at bat. Watching Nomar and Kemp look at strike 3 took the wind out of my sails, and if Moyer got out of that inning with only 2 runs, it could have been a completely different game.

Dear Blake DeWitt,

Thank you.

183 As excited as you are, I'm as nervous. A loss would be tough to take, 3 must wins including Hamels Wed.

184
Restaurant goes out of business! Film at 11!

Repeat each day.

Having a successful restaurant in any economic climate is extremely difficult. When I worked in the Business Department and people would come in looking for help writing a business plan for a restaurant, I often thought to myself "When are they going to come back for the bankruptcy books?"

I'm joining late. I'm ashamed to say that I haven't read through the thread... but I had to get down some thoughts before it got even later.

What a contrast to the NLDS clincher. I know that there were many reports of an ugly crowd there, but as I posted here, from my vantage point the crowd at that game was joyful and was rewarded with a well-played, exciting contest that (fortunately) the Dodgers led all the way. Others didn't have this experience, but it was one of the best games for me that I'd ever attended.

Still, because so many people had such a different experience than I had, I was wary of the crowd but hopeful that things would be OK.

Things were not OK. I don't know if it was the fact that the Dodgers were down 0-2 in the series, or that in the first inning, the team took an (as it turned out) insurmountable lead, or that there was weird violence on the field, but this crowd was ugly.

From the very beginning of the game, the one Phillie fan in our section -- Loge, near the right-field foul pole -- took it. At first, he was cheery about it, tipping his cap to the crowd with a big grin. But as the game went on, the verbal abuse got worse and worse. Threats to smack him down in the parking lot. One 90-pound woman screamed, "Get outta here! We don't want your kind here!" (Yes, "your kind.") Things were thrown -- peanuts, I think.

You could see the Phillie fan struggling to maintain his temper. Fortunately, there was no fight.

And the only thing I could think the whole time was: where were the ushers?

Frank McCourt keeps touting Dodger Stadium as a premier family destination in Los Angeles. The crowd was so surly last night that it kinda puts the lie to that.

I'll put it this way: the crowd rivalled the legendary crowds of $2 Tuesdays from a few years back (was it 2005?). It got to the point then that I refused to attend Tuesday games until the promotion ended, and it was such a disaster that it ended quickly. Last night didn't have anybody running onto the field, so it wasn't QUITE as bad as $2 Tuesdays, but it certainly wasn't the joyful buzz I was expecting of an NLCS game and it was bad enough that I now think that my NLDS experience was a fluke and that this is more representative of the stuff that goes on.

I support McCourt's attempts to put the Dodgers front-and-center in LA by making Dodger Stadium the destination, but for all the money he's poured into seats, food, and parking, I wonder if he has a plan to reshape the in-seat fan experience. One place to start might be more ushers, trained in crowd control, watching the crowd and quick to step in to defuse tensions. But I'm not an expert and if McCourt has another plan, that's fine.

Surprising fact I picked up somewhere: a team down 3-2 going home actually wins the series more often than not.

All of these Dodger Stadium games should be must wins.

Can anyone tell me where there are photos of last nights Garvey, Cey, Lopes and Russell first pitch ceremonies. For some reason they have taken off the Photo Gallery section on dodgers.com. They use to show photos from every game including any festivities. Thanks to anyone who can get that info.

Surprising fact I picked up somewhere: a team down 3-2 going home actually wins the series more often than not

Interesting. Assuming a home team wins roughly 55.68% of the games (as they did in 2008), we'd only expect the team down 3-2 to win both remaining games roughly 31% of the time.

I have two extra tickets for tonight's game available for any one here. They are in Loge 153. I'm asking face value $80 (without any of Ticketmaster's fees). Email anupum dot kumar at gmail dot com.

HOWEVER, the home winning percentages of this year's playoff teams is much higher than the overall percentage, which I suppose isn't at all surprising.

TB: 70.4%
Bos: 69.1
Cubs: 67.9
ChiSox: 67.5
Angels: 61.7
Mil: 60.5
Phi/LA: 59.3

But even the Rays would only be expected to win the remaining 2 games 49.5% of the time.

But the other big issue is that the team who at home for games 6 and 7 had the better season record, at least outside the World Series.

I agree with 68 , that security should concentrate on keeping fans out of any fracas. But the Dodgers have a good quarter of a million parking lot attendants who can't be all that busy during the game. Just injecting all of them on the field would be enough to keep any brawl from being functional. Like putting out a camp fire with a smokejumper plane.

Also, has everybody noticed what happens when you click on those 0 links? Is it just a way of getting extra pinky-typing practicing?

But the Dodgers have a good quarter of a million parking lot attendants who can't be all that busy during the game. Just injecting all of them on the field would be enough to keep any brawl from being functional

But then, would would attend the parking lot?

Oh, right: Frank McCourt.

From the archives-
In 1965 we lost the first 2 games of the WS in Minnesota; came home and took all 3; went back to Minnesota and lost game 6 and then won game 7 (on the 14th of October).

Of course, having Koufax pitch a shutout in game 5 and come back and pitch another one on two days rest in game 7 was a big help.

190 Photos are still there at dodgers.com. Look on the bottom right section, LA Favorite Photos.

Well just got back from the weekend jaunt down to LA for game 3. AMAZING! Its been about 2 years since Ive been back to both LA and Dodger stadium, LOTS of changes! My girlfriend was asking me questions about things and Im almost didn't know the answer, and I'd been going since 3rd grade! Postive changes I must add as well. The making money changes are the most obvious but at the same time I felt a larger sense of Dodger pride and BLUE, granted it was a playoff game but the accessability to purchase colors and gear was great, resulting in my converted Dodger fan girl to WANT tons of gear.

To the game, I agree with Jon that Victorino has no right to be upset or complain about a thing. In fact when the moment happened I stood in my chair, watched and thought now why is he so mad? I do however think that a "retaliation" was in order whether it be a hard slide into a base or very inside pitch. Quotes from Manny express frustration that it did not incur in Philly. I gave Myers the benefit of doubt that night. Gave Moyer the benefit for the first one but seriously at Martin's head? Now it was in order and I think Kuroda made a large statement, I think the entire Dodger team made a whole statement from the first inning, Furcal swinging at the first pitch and smashing a homerun? Furcal nevers swings at the first pitch but he was already decided. Manny rushing from the outfield after the inning was over, Plaschke was right that towards the end he was "playing" it up but he should and the team should have. They needed to get angry, they needed some fire, not because it was entirely lost but because to turn this series around, this game and incidents that ensued may be just what the doctor ordered. I want to go as far and say this could be turning point in the series. The Phillies seemed bullied after that Victorino groundout, like a bully having just been stood up to. They looked clueless and just plain beat. finally I loved seeing Dewitt step up and become a major leaguer, not that he wasn't but big hit, big pressure, first postseason, I see nothing but good things coming from him. Kuroda was the last piece of greatness last night, he showed flashes of greatness throughout the season but he has stepped up when its counted and I have every faith Mr. Lowe will do so again tonight. This is playoff time and not time to rest our seasoned vet ace.

188
I've rarely seen bad behavior from a known season ticket holder. This isn't a class or economic observation as the seats in my area are owned by the same ethnic and economic distribution as the people who buy the game day tickets.

The Dodger Video legends thing they have going is fun to watch but I expect I could tire of the Fernando/Lasorda videos if they run every night.
California Dreaming last night even made my wife proud to life in LA and she's wanted to move for 20 years. Stopped into a church and showing Dodger Stadium. Good stuff.

199 - I've noticed a big difference in the crowd based on where I was sitting in years past. I usually attend with someone who is a fan of the other team, and on the field level there is some good natured ribbing but nothing threatening; on the reserve level, I've had times when I did not leave the company of a girl wearing a JD Drew Cardinals jersey because I didn't trust the crowd/mob. but i didn't make any games this year, so maybe its different now.

As far as security getting involved I think that would create more problems then solve. I think that players, coaches and umpires are to solve any problems on the field, unless of course fans run onto the field and attack an umpire, like Chisox/KC game. If the incident and "bad blood" is excessive enough to boil into every player on both sides then that would be something of unprecendence and a truly sad degression of the game we love. After the incident and Nomar reached 1st he patted Howard almost as if to say we're good, of course it was probably a simply Hello but I think there are more Nomar's on a baseball field then say (insert player who has started more fights than anyone in baseball here).

184
I seem to remembering seeing that the chef at Restaurant 15 is going to be on Top Chef this season.

Someone actually owns a JD Drew Cardinals jersey. The Best Fans in Baseball despise JD Drew with the heat of ten thousand suns.

"Five Days in August" (or whatever Bissinger's book was called) has in its index the heading of
"Drew, J.D.,
Underachivement of.."

Thank you 197.

189 - I'm not really that surprised. first, most teams have winning records at home and losing records on the road (only six teams had winning records on the road this year, and only the Angels were more than 2 or 3 games above .500). Plus, you're usually looking at a team's two best pitchers in games 6 and 7 (depending on the year and team, you're looking at combos like Drysdale/Koufax, Pedro/Shilling, Shilling/Johnson, Clemens/Petitte, etc).

204 - she had a crush on Drew. also, it was when Drew was playing for the Dodgers and being less than an All Star.

I would add that the day I almost got into a fight with Cardinals fans at Dodger Stadium (it was really hot, I was in a bad mood, and a lot of other things), but the Cardinals fans cheered when Jeff Suppan hit Drew with a pitch in his leg.

They were out for blood.

I hope all their dreams in life have gone unfulfilled.

188

This has been a problem for almost a decade now. I think the best thing we can do is write a letter to the Dodgers, a paper letter, at least to express what is happening and the frustration therin.

You'd hate for games to be ruined by lousy fans. The second thing is, why all the hate for people who wear the other teams' colors? I don't get that at all! So what, they root for the other team. It's just a game.

160 Jon, Somewhere in heaven, Drysdale is disagreeing with you!

188 Clearly, and it is my observation--if not others--that a somewhat long hibernating Raider element and mentality has some found its way to Chavez Ravine.

We cannot kid ourselves; this is a group that is more akin to being that of a soccer-hooligan found in London or Brazil; whose lack of knowledge about the beauty and strategy of the Game does not compare to a ill-conceived racial insult. These types of fans like upheaval because they have a lot of anger in their lives. These types just want to see a fight when others want to escape all of that nonsense. Home plate is nothing more then a battle ground of contempt, anger and deceit. Sometimes even revenge.

Some of you longtime Jon's Dodger Thoughts readers will remember sometime back when Jon posted that letter from the brother of the Giant fan who was ruthlessly killed at Dodger Stadium after just another heated Dodgers/Giants contest. I still think of that kid from time to time--alls he wanted to do was watch a great baseball game between two teams with one of the more storied rivalries in all of sports. His brother described in that letter, just how much he loved baseball and despite him being a Giant fan I cannot think of a better type person to watch a baseball game with.

My best friend is a life-long Angel fan who detests the Dodgers; and I'm not that much different about the Angels either. Still, I would rather go enjoy a game with him then anyone because we love the game and its an even better way to enjoy our friendship. We have different likes and dislikes, but one thing we share is our love for baseball.

You just wish some of this rabid element at Dodger Stadium could be the same...Before someone else gets hurt.

I've found less hostility toward USC fans sitting in my section at the Rose Bowl for the USC-UCLA football game.

And UCLA is usually getting throttled in that game.

Then there are Notre Dame fans. The fans there are freakishly polite to out of towners. Except to Michigan fans. They hate them.

187 - they should start with the bankruptcy books. Walter O'Malley was widely (and from what I can tell, correctly) castigated as a skinflint, but consider his background: he made his first fortune as a bankruptcy attorney.

My uncle's second wife's son (which would make us step-cousins, I suppose) is building a hotel/restaurant in Buenos Aires. The zero order goal should always be thrift; second should be location; third should be the actual running of the thing. He's building the thing himself and it's costing him a fortune. I wonder that he will ever see a profit on it.

could we get off the brushback stuff already? let's get back to talking about the grating Tim McCarver. Oh, I forgot, Tim McCarver is all brushback, all the time. Can't someone stop this man? aren't there such things as temporary restraining orders? isn't the public safety at risk here? The over/under for minutes consumed in the pregame, in the pursuit of the already beaten to death brushback: 3 minutes before the game starts, and the o/u for mentions during the game=7

I think the issues at Dodger Stadium are a fixable problem. I understand that Yankee Stadium was a zoo just like that in the 70s and 80s, but I gave it a visit this year and I saw a decent police presence (Police, mind you, not ushers). Needless to say, the experience was quite a good one.

I should add, they were playing the Rays :/

I would add that the day I almost got into a fight with Cardinals fans at Dodger Stadium

Was that the "rubber ball to the neck" incident...?

214 My Met-fan friends who sometimes attends Yankee games says this about Yankee Stadium:

If our Phillie fan had been seated in the bleachers, it would have been a zoo of insults and thrown items, and then, even if the Phillie fan did nothing but sit pleasantly, the cops would have removed him and not the unruly Yankee fans. (She doesn't know if he would have been moved to another section or removed from the stadium entirely.)

I don't know if that's a good solution. It keeps the guy from getting assaulted, but rewards the fans for bad behavior.

I reject the contention that Dodger Stadium is a "zoo" or anything approaching that. Sure there are some drunken idiots, some classless folks mixed in with the 55k+, but it's nothing like a zoo. There wasn't even a single fight last night!

Completely OT question to those who watched on television: did we get a Vin Scully sighting last night?

At Game 1 in Philly, Fox had Harry Kalas read the starting lineup.

Drysdale is the Dodgers franchise leader in HBP with 154.

The guy in second is Harry McIntire, who managed to hit 82 guys in just five seasons in Brooklyn from 1905-1909.

Of active Dodger pitchers, Chan Ho Park leads in HBPs as a Dodger with 74, which is fourth alltime and one ahead of Nap Rucker.

Burt Hooton pitched 10 seasons for the Dodgers and hit 12 guys.

216
The rubber ball to the neck was a Dodgers-Braves game at the start of the 2005 season.

218 When I use the phrase "show some class," I mean it to have zero relation to the amount of money one makes.

The guy I saw at the NLDS clincher who was gently and good-naturedly teasing the Cubs fans isn't necessarily worried about his capital gains taxes, but he had class.

Can we take that out of the equation, please?

219 - McBuck talked about Vin last night, but that was all. and he got a nice graphic. but no actual air time.

219
They talked about Vin and showed him on TV and even did a little graphic on his career.

Re the restaurant success ratio, I remember a quote from somebody who was asked how to make a million in the restaurant business. The reply was "Start with two million."

It's a hard hard business with tiny margins on food; you've got to make it up on liquor. If you don't sell booze, that obviously makes it even harder. And you're subject to the real estate mantra: "Location, location, location."

At some events Fox should be over the Joe Buck, show, frankly I don't enjoy him, nor McCarver at all but they could have two broadcasting gems in Scully and Kalas calling these games, really you'd think what more would baseball purists want to watch cause based on a portion of ratings its seems as though the only ones watching are purists and the teams fans.

222
I'm usually more worried about the AMT.

219. They briefly showed him in the press box and had a graphic with his CV. But, alas, we didn't get any words out of his mouth. I had to mute the FOX broadcast because it was all beanball talk all the time.

221
Sounds like you've had multiple "incidents".

The only one I've ever had remains the "(Presumably) Giants fans dumping beer on my dad and I at Candlestick back in 1983 for (presumably) being outwardly pro-Dodger".

227 Get married! Then you can worry about the "marriage penalty" instead!

229
Dodger Stadium incidents for me:

Guy spilling beer on me in 1981 NLCS and other person laughing at me whole game.

Sitting next to jerky Cardinal fans in 2005.

226 - I would love to hear Vina and Kalas call the game, either together or separately. But I suspect that Fox sees McBuck as the "product" more than the game, and I can't believe that they'd willingly degrade their product, in their minds.

Same reason NBC/ABC wouldn't have Chick Hearn calling Laker games in the playoffs, viewers would have been given a treat, but it would degrade their announcers.

Which is strange to me, because we're talking about icons, as opposed so say, Sutton and Grace.

Oh, and "Rubber ball to the neck in 2005"

Having read over the years about angry and surly DS crowds, I faced my first games there this year with a bit of trepidation, especially with the Angels in as the opponent. Yet no one threatened to kill anybody, as a Baltimore crowd once did to two of my college classmates both dressed in Yankee gear (I was in the car, pointing to my souvenir O's helmet). What I saw instead was roughly equivalent to a big SEC game, complete with the taunting and "x sucks" chants that sadly are a national, not Chavez Ravine, problem. If you want something akin to the Raider Nation, try being a visiting fan at LSU or West Virginia.

Dave Goltz holds the Dodgers record for most innings pitched as a Dodger with no HBP, 245 2/3 IP.

I caught anti-semetic slurs from a fellow Dodger fan in the Pavilion when I was 17 because I wouldn't let him steal someone else's things that had been left during a bathroom break.

That's my only incident.

So, if Bob is Goerge S. Kaufman, I want to know who is Dorothy Parker, Robert Benchley, Harpo Marx and Frank Adams?

It's tough to be a scalper:
http://tinyurl.com/4sl2th

Fires getting nasty. Watching the plumes from the NorthWest San Fernando Valley and it is getting darker and darker.

So, how common is it for a fan to fall from the loge to the field? I've always wondered things like this.

240
Are you planning on recreating scenes from "The Naked Gun?"

240
Never heard of it before. I will say that several weeks ago near the foul pole an older heavy lady in the first row was showing some erratic behavior or such and those guys you see walking out to the outfield and doing their best secret service imitations pulled her over the rail and took her down. Within seconds she was handcuffed and escorted out the bullpen gate. If you blinked you missed the whole thing.

I'm guessing they misinterpreted her intentions as she was in the same seat the next game I attended but the speed in which they acted was quite unlike the snail like movement of the LAPD who handle the security in the stands.

241 It apparently happened last night. I seem to have three or four degrees of separation from the guy landed on.

Does it look like the fires will affect the game any? Or is most of the worst of it far from DS?

Casey Blake (1 for 21) or Nomar at 3rd base against Blanton tonight?

The fire is pretty far away from Dodger Stadium. It's at the north end of the San Fernando Valley.

244
At the moment far far away. Griffith Park would have to burn down for there to be any effect on tonights game.

Like the rest of you, I am very disturbed by the behavior of some fans at DS, and I share everyone's wish that the McCourts would pay more attention to this. I will not take my kids to the Stadium unless we have great seats, and even then one out of four games they are exposed to some very unpleasant behavior.

But, I will say that nothing I've seen at DS -- not even being in the left field pavillion when Barry Bonds was playing -- compares to a summer day in the bleachers at Fenway when the Yankees are in town. It's been many years since I had that experience, but it was one long drunken brawl. Guys were getting tossed by the dozen, dragged out by a legion of guards and ushers. It was the wildest thing I ever saw outside of the mosh pit when the Dead Kennedys were playing (which I observed from a safe distance, unlike my experience at Fenway).

245 It's Blake. I thought it'd be Nomar at 3rd. But I'm more bummed Pierre is taking Kemp's place.

Furcal, SS

Ethier, RF

Manny, LF

Martin, C

Loney, 1B

DeWitt, 2B

Blake, 3B

Pierre, CF

Lowe, P

Surprised considering Kemp got a couple of hits last night that Joe would go with JP. However saying that glad he is batting 8th.

Juan Pierre's presence in the starting lineup makes me glad I'll be at the game. He's less painful in person than online.

Maybe FOX will have a montage of JP's memorable throws from the outfield...oh, nevermind.

249 - good thing no one bothered replacing the glass on the pitchfork and torch case.

Furcal, SS

Ethier, RF

Manny, LF

Martin, C

Loney, 1B

DeWitt, 2B

Blake, 3B

Pierre, CF

Lowe, P

Does anyone have the series winning percentages for teams down 2-0 vs. 2-1 in a seven game baseball post-season set?

Matt Kemp could be 0-for-playoffs with no walks, two reach-on-errors, and two caught stealings and it still wouldn't make sense to start Pierre.

Pitchfork? Check. Torch? Check. Keyboard? Check.

Sorry, I didn't see that somebody else already posted the lineup. :(

Hi All,

Great write-up, and picture, Jon. I got back last night still jacked with adrenaline and your piece was just what the doctor ordered.

We have one ticket available for tonight - Loge section 165, Row R, for 81.30. njr, myself, and a friend will be rabidly cheering next to you. Tix are computer print-outs, alas, but guaranteed good times.

Also, 104 we have 2 tix for Wed., Loge 162, Row F, seats 13-14, 162.60 total.

If anyone's interested, you can e-mail me at tinker @ tinkerlindsay dot com , or njr at
thomasbeatty @ gmail dot com

238 No scalping for us!

Last night's game was great. Watching all the pitchers lumbering across the field to back up their boys was somehow hilarious and totally exciting at the same time, and Blake Dewitt's triple was a pure, peak baseball experience.

go dodgers.

Holy God....Juan Pierre!

Kemp must not have thrown enough punches last night.

Does Pierre own Blanton or something?

I wonder if Torre knows that Kemp outhit Pierre vs. RH this year.

I mean, I'm sitting here in my pajamas, making $19,000 a year, and I can look it up in a few seconds.

Not that outhitting RH necessarily means that Kemp should start over Pierre vs. a RH, but I doubt Pierre would be starting if the opposing pitcher were an LH.

Does Pierre own Blanton or something?

If by "own" you mean "has never faced in his life".

Juan Pierre has not batted against Joe Blanton.

He's a tabula rasa.

Pierre's never faced Blanton. Manny owns him, though.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/Mafm

D'oh.

What are Kemp's #'s against Blanton?

255
The home team of game 3, trailing 0-2, Series wins: 3-21, 12.5%

The home team of game 4, trailing 1-2, Series wins: 19-35, 35.2%.

According to:
http://www.whowins.com/tables/up21.html

FWIW, Kemps last 176 PA's including post-season, .247/.301/.370. Juan Pierre can do that, I just hope there are no situations where his arm is exposed.

Kemp's been looking bad recently but Pierre's been looking bad his whole career. I don't like the move but nor do I think it's a big mistake at this point. Pierre may just have his head in a better place right now and he will certainly be motivated. Almost wish we were batting him 9th though to get that Pierre/Furcal thing.

266 I misread the tables, so it's slightly off, but not by much. H/V refers to the home team of Game 1, not the game of decision.

If there's any time to play your best players, its in the playoffs.

Juan Pierre?

269 Actually, two wrongs probably will end up being a right on this one! I stand by my numbers.

I'm only angry because my I'd-leave-Kemp-off-the-NLCS-roster joke isn't funny, any more.

Pierre may just have his head in a better place right now and he will certainly be motivated

Its the playoffs.
Every player is trying their hardest.

There's no good reason to start Pierre over Kemp in the regular season, let alone the playoffs.

If Joe would start Pierre in the biggest game of the season, I have to think 2009 he could do the same thing.

Palm trees make me not want to fight.

267 Sure, Pierre can do that. But there is the chance that Kemp will bust out of his 176-or-however-much-AB slump. For Pierre, that's as good as it gets.

But you know all that.

Kemp is 2 for 8 vs Blanton with 2 walks and 2 K's. Doesn't he also struggle against righties, or am I making that up? Well, those who wanted Pierre over Kemp the other day get their wish. I don't mind that much, esp. since he's batting 8th and is a lefty. But I was wondering why neither Kent nor Nomar (I wouldn't have both of them in the infield, that's for sure) play tonight vs Blanton? I guess they want the best D out there with Lowe pitching, which I understand.

There is also the possibility that Kemp could knock himself in with one swing. I really don't see how Pierre in there is going to help the Dodgers at all.

Can I make a joke without anyone taking it too seriously?

Pierre may just have his head in a better place right now and he will certainly be motivated

Hey, I wish Pierre was in, um, "a better place."

Thank you! I'll be here all week!

There's got to be more to the Pierre move.

Theories?

266 How does the Dodgers' status as a Team of Destiny affect those numbers?

The defensive ramifications are more serious, I think. At this point, I've given up trying to second-guess Joe Torre, I just roll with it and hope he's right.

Having Pierre as a lefty doesn't make sense either since Blanton has a reverse platoon split in his career.

275 I agree, but if he doesn't there are things Pierre does better than Kemp, his baserunning is better every year and he's always above average at getting to fly balls.

I don't agree with the decision but it's not the end of the world.

273 If you really believe that Kemp is FAR likely to have a better game than Pierre TONIGHT than we just disagree. If I were the manager, I'd probably start Kemp. But I just don't think that taking everything into account, it a horrendous choice.

I wonder if Kent had a chance to play tonight, with Blake not so hot against Blanton and Dewitt shifting to 3rd...

How does the Dodgers' status as a Team of Destiny affect those numbers?

And where does Midas fit in?

266-What are the odds of the Dodgers winning the series if they win tonight?

Torre will say something along the lines of: "I just felt that with the way Matt had been swinging the bat, I wanted to give him to tie to let things slow down. Juan has postseason experience and I know he can help us shake things up with his speed."

278- I'm outraged!

279- Kemp may have stolen Torre's dentures while he was napping, then used them to clamp on to an ceiling fan. The whole thing may have ended in busting up the dentures (and, presumably, permanently marring the fan). But, I'm just guessing, I don't have any hard evidence.

288
Except Torre's statement might be grammatical.

The right handed bench of Kent/Nomar/Kemp is quite impressive assuming Kemp comes up with the bases empty and all we need is a single.

For those of you who love to look toward 2009 while we are still playing, nothing would help 2009 right now then to have Juan Pierre do some serious S & S work to make him tradeable while also helping us win a game.

Well, Pierre has been good in postseason right?....right?

279 My theory is that Torre has watched the last three games very closely and feels that Kemp is off right now. Maybe even pressing. Doesn't think he's likely to kick into gear tonight. Thinks Pierre could add something (if not much). Likes Kemp off the bench more than Pierre off the bench. I hate defending anything having to do with Pierre and I hope he's not on the team next year. But I just don't think at this moment, it's a crazy move.

I can sympathize with not wanting to get angry about it, but c'mon: this is dumb. Matt Kemp is better at baseball than Juan Pierre. He doesn't need any extra rest. It could work out, because sometimes stupid things work out in baseball. This would be one of those times, if it happens, because it's pretty stupid.

Pierre? Seriously? Earth to Torre...

If anybody could use a spot start, it's Kent. He's 5 for 6 career against Blanton.

If Lowe wasn't starting I'd like to see Kent playing 2nd and DeWitt 3rd but Kent could kill us right now when we need the DP.

I actually think Pierre can contribute on offense in this game, potentially. Like a few others mentioned above, I worry more about his noodle-arm in the outfield. But for one game, I don't think this is a big deal. Plus, as TC says, if we really want the Dodgers to be able to trade Pierre this off-season, which I think they will at least try to do, might as well root for him to succeed.

If Lowe can go 5 solid innings again, I would have him on a very short leash with guys like Kershaw in the pen.

Pitchfork? Check. Torch? Check. Keyboard? Check.

I know it's sorta bad form and all, but that really made me laugh.

Happily, I will be out (planning a Pinewood Derby!) for much of the game.

The more angst that is spilled about Pierre starting the higher the likelihood that he contributes to tonight's win.

I think Kent would have started a few games if he was truly healthy. I think the only reason he is on the roster right now is to get him some potential glory by way of his professional bat.

Yeah, Pierre over Kemp doesn't bother me that much. I'd rather have Kemp in, but... it's okay. Maybe I'm just tired today.

Dodger Rays break into scoring column first fueled by real Dodger Rays.

287

I started looking for these numbers after I posted and I can't seem to find anything. Let's hope we win two in a row so I can get easily accessed numbers ;-)

300 So true....I expect this in tomorrows LAT...

----------------------

He was ignored most of the year.

Dirt, sweat, and speed replaced by Glamour, power, and pouting.

Last night he reminded those of us who remember what baseball looks like.

It's wasn't OBP, or OPS, or VORP. It was high socks, oversized helmets, and headfirst passion.

With every slap, dash, and cloud of dust, he brought an ungrateful fan base closer to a 20 year dream.

---------------------

Feel free to take it from there....

302
We need more angst for 300 to work. This settling is not going to cut it.

305
Nice, lets hope that proves prophetic.

And Fenway Park is silent.

300
I hate it when someone spills angst all over my keyboard.

TIm McCarver insists that three days rest has no adverse effects on a pitcher. I wonder if John Lester agrees right now.

305

Are you the real Bill Plaschke?

Pierre. Oh boy. I can't figure this out at all. I'm resigned to employ inane logic to justify this decision: since Lowe is hitting behind him, maybe Pierre will get better pitches.

Do you want me to rail against it, that usually helps?

310
It probably doesn't if you have been doing it all of your career during the era he played.

Maybe they think that if Haren goes headhunting tonight, he'll pick the most Victorino-y Dodger available.

I'm waiting on Torre to speak about the Pierre situation. With Lowe on the mound defense is everything. The last thing we need is Rollins or Victorino taking an extra base.

313
Yes, you are the king. Why Magic Marlon would have been Ordinary Anderson if you hadn't pointed out what a senseless trade it was.

Maybe Billingsley will bean Pierre before the game. It's win-win.

Oh man, sad news. RIP Son of Gerard Depardieu. He was 2 years young than me! :-(

305-

When the team traded for Mannny Ramirez, he took more batting practice

When Andre Ethier had his month-long moment, he ran sprints in the outfield.

When Matt Kemp started slumping, he was ready.

315 Haren = Blanton, I presume?

319 young = younger

305 You forgot the requisite "ring in a box" clause.

Seve Ballesteros has a brain tumor. I'm astonished he's a year younger than me. It seems like I was reading about him at the Masters when I was a kid.

305

320

Funny, really funny :)

322 Dang, you beat me to it!

By starting Pierre Joe's sacrificing defense for ? As far as the retaliation thing, I think the Dodgers should retaliate against Mary Hart. You can throw over her head, but not at her legs.

I can't be expected to keep straight every ex-Oakland ringer floating around. Between Haren, Blanton, and Harden, it's like Beane spent the off-season specifically plotting to wreck the Dodgers' year.

Rays taking it to Sox at Fenway. File under: baseball is unpredictable.

Wait a minute, how can you play a playoff game with no arm in center field. How can you play it without one of the guys who got you there. If Joe is doing this to try to wake up Kemp, I think he is taking a huge risk.

327 it's like Beane spent the off-season specifically plotting to wreck the Dodgers' year.

Haren - didn't work
Harden - didn't work
Blanton - ??

If the Dodgers win tonight, we can conclude that Moneyball is a farce. No Moneyball team has successfully scattered its young pitchers around the league for the purpose of derailing the Dodgers in the pennant race/post-season.

I think for one night only we need to suspend our disbelief and root for Juan Pierre. It serves our purpose immediately (as in a W tonight) and long-term (trade bait).

So go get 'em, Scrappy McPopup!

If the Dodgers beat the Phillies, and the Rays beat the Sox. How will the tone be on this board.

Will it be hard to root against our lil' darlins?

Not too bad a black hole, but more like a four man neutron star.

From Plaschke's Column Today:

"But to make sure Victorino understood him, moments later Kuroda ran over to first base while Victorino was grounding out to first baseman Ryan Howard."

Hmm, I didn't realize we had acquired Ryan Howard.

I think Kuroda ran over to first in case he needed to cover in the event that Ryan Howard decides to flip it to the pitcher.

Gawd! Plashke is horrible.

Nomar has been putting on some weight.

And height.

And sitting out in the sun a lot.

330
I like that angle.

I should have made this comment Friday, but it looked to me like Billingsley was missing Martin's target.

So, to me, pitch selection is not the answer to why Billingsley was bad Friday.

[returns from future]

More angst! We need more angst! The future I saw is not the future that must occur!

334
Did the LA Times turn to the JC's for their editors?

Cliff was off big on his Ray/Boston prediction today at SI. Maybe Lowe will do the job and make him 0-2. I hope we don't find out that Blanton is a big game postseason pitcher and that the Brewer game was just a sign of things to come.

334

The replay showed Kuroda saying something to Victorino, and I think Shane was surprised to see him over there.

330 But wasn't it the Moneyball team that got rid of those guys for a lot of prospects, thus reinventing themselves (as they do perpetually)? I don't know if we can really reach that conclusion. But it's true Beane's traded ones could have wrecked the Dodgers season, and one of them still could tonight.

336- By the way, during the game thread yesterday I promised that you would send a prize to whoever won the first annual DT Rat vs. Mouse quiz competition. So, you owe Molly something. I didn't specify what, so you get to think up whatever it'll be, too.

You're welcome.

Shane carried on like a chihuahua last night. No one was impressed with his spastic sign language.

330 - fire photon torpedos, er, pitchers!

nothing would help 2009 right now then to have Juan Pierre do some serious S & S work to make him tradeable while also helping us win a game

Which GM is going to decide Pierre's worth trading for due to 1 post season game?

Seriously, if Pierre went 5-5 tonight with 3 stolen bases, I dont think Brian Sabean's gonna be like "Whoa, we gotta trade for him".

On 2nd thought, its Sabean so anything is possible.

347 Collet.... oh wait.

Torre on Pierre starting from Jim Alexander:

http://www.beloblog.com/Pe_Blogs/prosports/2008/10/nlcs-torres-take-on-pierre-ove.html

350

Pretty much what was expected. I don't mind Torre's reasoning.

350 Another way to spin that:

"In this series Kemp is hitting .273 with a double and two walks".

332 - I will have no problem rooting against the Rays. I will relish it, in fact.

But I'm a contrarian around here on that point. The Rays served their purpose in keeping the Yankees out of the playoffs - the rest of the AL is on notice for allowing the Red Sox in.

On Dodgers.com, the quote is: "Matt will probably be a part of it before the day is over."

Guessing Kemp will be in by the 5th or 6th inning unless Pierre is 2-2. Probably part of a double switch.

354 Which makes a lot more sense.

354

So, the double switch in the 6th or 7th?

355 - I'd guess later than that, but I'm splitting hairs.

Seven fined for Sunday night behavior. Kuroda's is $7,500.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-fines14-2008oct14,0,219393.story

The main thing I will ask of Torre today is to have Lowe on a short leash. Kershaw, Maddux, and Park can handle 3 or 4 innings between them.

Maybe Tim McCarver would like to chip in for the fines?

$500 from Ken Rosenthal?

Later than that if Pierre has done something positive. My guess was that Lowe comes out after 5 innings, 6 tops, and that's when Kemp comes in for defense or to hit that next inning.

360 Don't forget about Biemel and Kuo!

359
I wonder if ownership ever offers to pay individual fines when the behavior that inspired the fine was encouraged/mandated by management (either directly, or indirectly through some kind of unspoken "that's how we do things around here" milieu).

Did Bowa actually do anything, or are they just fining him out of habit?

And Clay Condrey...$ 0. If that (picture above) doesn't happen Kuroda has $7,500.

365 continued- Not that I'm opposed, either way.

I've read Torre indicate that Lowe is on a short leash.

Dodgers can throw a lot of different looks at the Phils tonight.

Cuban Tourny style baseball.

Torre also thinks those fines are ridiculous. He figured the time of the year enhanced the fine.

And Cory Wade is available but probably for just an inning.

371 I hope Corey Wade gets paid before Torre ruins his arm.

365 - Bowa should have been fined when Manny scored the one time, he was almost at home plate waving guys around. I thought Manny was going to run him over... which would have been funny in a regular season game.

NPUT