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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Farewell, Preacher Roe
2008-11-10 06:49
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Elwin Charles "Preacher" Roe, a standout for the Dodgers in the late 1940s and early 1950s, passed away Sunday. He was 93 according to Baseball-Reference.com, 92 according to his official website.

Comments (115)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-11-10 07:07:10
1.   Bob Timmermann
Preacher Roe's best performance in the World Series has to be this one:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA194910060.shtml
2008-11-10 07:13:33
2.   D4P
1
Attendance: 70,053
2008-11-10 07:23:56
3.   Bumsrap
That Series featured the first doubleheader in WS history. (source: Fun Facts)
2008-11-10 07:25:22
4.   Bob Timmermann
3
Doubleheader?
2008-11-10 07:27:52
5.   Bumsrap
4, Its true. I read it in Letterman's Fun Facts book now available everywhere.
2008-11-10 07:32:54
6.   Eric Stephen
I always loved the name Preacher Roe. Just a classic old school baseball name. RIP.
2008-11-10 07:33:45
7.   popup
RIP Preacher. The 49 WS started with a 1-0 Yankee win in game one and Preacher's 1-0 shutout in game 2. The Dodgers lost 1-0 in games 3 and 4 of the 66 WS. Sandy lost 1-0 in the 59 WS. Jack Morris won 1-0 in game 7 against Atlanta. Off the top of my head, I can't remember any other 1-0 WS games.

Stan from Tacoma

2008-11-10 07:37:31
8.   Bob Timmermann
There have been 22 1-0 games in the World Series with the last one coming in 2005
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/Nuh7
2008-11-10 08:18:06
9.   DXMachina
My favorite bit from The Boys of the Summer is when Kahn asks Roe about the one and only home run he ever hit in the majors.

Kahn: "The book also says you came to bat 620 times and that was the only home run."

Roe: "Yep. You got a secret weapon like that, you don't want to go showing it around."

2008-11-10 08:23:11
10.   ToyCannon
One of the great names in baseball history. Anyone can be nicknamed Preacher but it was the last name that sold it.

Just a shame for Laker fans that Bynum was not available for the championship series.

2008-11-10 08:28:36
11.   ToyCannon
Going back to the last thread and the defensive rankings for 3rd baseman. Alex Gordon has to be one of the greater disappointments for a top prospect this decade. He had the same fanfare as Longoria but has been bleh offensively and terrible defensively. Everyone talks about how Tampa should be great with all those top 10 picks but look at what KC has gotten out of Gordon, Hochevar, and Butler. All picks were highly thought of at the time. They might not get one All-Star season from that trio.
2008-11-10 08:29:44
12.   MC Safety
Zak,

Yeah, that Nasri is pure class. That second goal was classic Arsenal football. What a beautiful pass from Cesc. I'm surprised you made no mention of ManU being at full strength, while Arsenal were without quite a few players. Replace Bendtner with Ade and it could have been embarrassing. Clichy completely pwned Mr. Balloon D'or all game, Rooney looked lost, and Berbatov is nothing when he's not getting the ball at his feet. Gunner fans needed that result BADLY.

2008-11-10 08:38:58
13.   Jon Weisman
Lucas May, live (on tape) from Sunrise ...

http://afldodgers.mlblogs.com/?partnerId=rss_la

2008-11-10 08:52:11
14.   kinbote
Jon Weisman is the only reference source listed on Lucas May's Wikipedia page.
2008-11-10 08:54:48
15.   kinbote
14 That was the day Canuck took the Dodgers to task for their curious 40 man roster decisions.
2008-11-10 09:01:28
16.   MC Safety
Nasri's second goal brought this man to mind, and it almost made me cry (forgive the euro dance music):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc4ZDi-bCEs&feature=related

2008-11-10 09:09:08
17.   CanuckDodger
14 -- Hey! The Wikipedia entry credits Jon as the author of the article I wrote. I thought Michael Scott said Wikipedia is never wrong?
2008-11-10 09:11:27
18.   Bob Timmermann
17
Check it again.
2008-11-10 09:18:08
19.   das411
8 , have people already forgotten everything about the 2005 World Series??

...and how long will it be 'til that happens with '08 too? :(

2008-11-10 09:19:47
20.   Bob Timmermann
19
We won't forget the '08 World Series when we get together in Phoenix next year for World Series Week and gather in the morning for the David Eckstein Grittiness Contest before we go to the game in the evening.
2008-11-10 09:22:41
21.   kinbote
Good article on Hardball Times about Boras/Manny:

http://tinyurl.com/57qav4

2008-11-10 09:38:31
22.   arborial
20 "David Eckstein Grittiness Contest" Is that were you see who can eat the most grits in half an hour?
2008-11-10 09:45:02
23.   Bob Timmermann
20
It is followed up by the Brad Penny Milk Chugging Contest.
2008-11-10 09:48:11
24.   Bumsrap
20 - In that case, please chew the grits
2008-11-10 09:48:31
25.   ToyCannon
Feeling grumpy today?
2008-11-10 09:48:55
26.   Bumsrap
20 = 23
2008-11-10 09:49:53
27.   Bumsrap
today?
2008-11-10 09:51:59
28.   ToyCannon
17
A year has passed since that tirade. I don't recall the Dodgers doing anything noteworthy in the international market during the last 12 months. I would chalk this upto another sign that money is tight in Dodger town.
2008-11-10 09:55:02
29.   caseybarker
The most memorable 1-0 WS game for me was the 1991 clincher won by Jack Morris and the Twins.
2008-11-10 10:00:09
30.   Jon Weisman
Stanford has led with 20 seconds remaining in six of seven Pac-10 football games this year.

The Rose Bowl was in our grasp.

2008-11-10 10:00:26
31.   Andrew Shimmin
I predicted that Gordon would be the first player to reach 3,000 home runs.

I stand by my prediction.

2008-11-10 10:00:59
32.   CanuckDodger
28 -- Are you thinking of a different tirade? The article that referenced Lucas May was about the 40-man roster additions last year (I said it was a mistake adding May and Alvarez, and a mistake not adding Wesley Wright).
2008-11-10 10:01:34
33.   cargill06
20 Would contests include, after being picked off at 1st seeing who can run in the throwing lane the best. Who looks funniest when throwing a baseball. Who can do the best "deke" on a hit and run pretending it's a double play ball when in fact it's a fly ball. It seems like good family fun.
2008-11-10 10:06:14
34.   Bob Timmermann
30
And Stanford would have had the tiebreaker edge over Oregon State!

But Saturday will be the day that Eric Stephen will get to say "How Do You Do?" a lot. Or we'll get to hear Pete Arbogast cry.

2008-11-10 10:07:33
35.   ToyCannon
32
Yeah, the one where you went off on Dodger Management for being so inactive in the international market.
2008-11-10 10:07:58
36.   Daniel Zappala
30 Wow, I didn't realize that. I'm hoping they beat Cal and get to a bowl game.
2008-11-10 10:08:47
37.   ToyCannon
33
Maybe it would include who has the most bling per pound.
2008-11-10 10:09:16
38.   Andrew Shimmin
Silver lining to the coming financial apocalypse: Circuit City is bankrupt. CompUSA died a little while back, so the only company left that I have hatred in my heart for is Sprint. Fingers crossed. . .

http://tinyurl.com/5jnk4c

2008-11-10 10:11:05
39.   Bob Timmermann
38
Proof that you shouldn't tick off Andrew Shimmin:

http://tinyurl.com/sprint3rdquarter

2008-11-10 10:11:33
40.   ToyCannon
32
http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/865947.html
2008-11-10 10:12:34
41.   ToyCannon
38
How did Frye's escape your wrath?
2008-11-10 10:15:52
42.   Andrew Shimmin
I like Fry's! Sure, half the time the stuff you buy there doesn't work, but you factor that into the decision. And, it's sort of like a free game, with purchase. Will this work? Can I force it to work by swearing at it? Hmm, maybe there's a secret Chinese driver I can install that would make it work. . .
2008-11-10 10:21:46
43.   Jon Weisman
Josh Rawitch on the Manny negotiations:

http://insidethedodgers.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/11/back_in_town.html

2008-11-10 10:26:58
44.   Zak
12 No question this was one of Man U's poorer game, and I say this taking nothing away from Arsenal. Man U. started brightly, but faded fast. With Arsenal, they always have the squad to beat any team on a given day, but the key is to get those wins at Stoke. Also, do you think they will hold on to Cesc next summer?

I can't see YouTube at work, so can't see the player you are referring to. Is it someone from the Bergkamp/Overmars generation or older?

2008-11-10 10:29:24
45.   ToyCannon
From Joe Posnanski on Adam Dunn:
2005: .388 OBP, 46 homers
2005: .387 OBP, 40 homers
2006: .365 OBP, 40 homers
2007: .386 OBP, 40 homers
2008: .386 OBP, 40 homers

Has anyone been more consistent over the last five years.

2008-11-10 10:34:21
46.   Eric Stephen
34
Arbogast wouldn't be the only one crying!

Penn State's loss was huge, but the Alabama OT win was a crusher. It's up to Mississippi St & Auburn, and/or Florida State to do the dirty work.

2008-11-10 10:36:21
47.   Bob Timmermann
If you're counting on Mississippi State for help, you should try something more effective, like voodoo.
2008-11-10 10:38:06
48.   Eric Stephen
45
Part of the Ken Boyer / Fred Lynn club of players with 4 straight years of identical HR.
2008-11-10 10:50:47
49.   Ken Noe
St. Louis trying to move Adam Kennedy to someone who'll eat the contract.
http://tinyurl.com/6rgexk
2008-11-10 10:56:54
50.   underdog
Speaking of the Manny negotiations...

John Brattain puts on his rubber boots and gloves and wades into "Boras' latest manure pile"
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/battling-boras-round-2/

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-11-10 11:08:12
51.   regfairfield
Fry's is the only place where I immediately want to punch the sales guy in the face, but other than that, they're great.
2008-11-10 11:09:40
52.   Eric Stephen
Longoria ROY. Just announced on ESPN.
2008-11-10 11:10:06
53.   Eric Stephen
52
and Soto
2008-11-10 11:10:41
54.   Eric Stephen
But of course, I should have checked The Griddle!
2008-11-10 11:15:39
55.   underdog
Frankly, I would've given Cory Wade a ROY point before I gave Fukkudome any, but that's just me. Longoria and Soto were no-brainers for the 1st prizes of course.
2008-11-10 11:15:42
56.   cargill06
Reg, question for you that I posed a couple threads back...

I finally got around to reading Moneyball for the 1st time. Great book, one question though. The chapter about the pitcher having little to no control over BABIP (which I believe is true, too much eveidence not to). DePodesta brings up an interesting point, he believes a pitcher has no can control BABIP but he can control XBH's. Two questions, has a study on IsoPBIP (isolated power balls in play) been done to see if this is acutally true? Second, if Paul is right wouldn't IsoPBIP be a much more useful tool than BABIP?

2008-11-10 11:21:20
57.   regfairfield
56 No idea about a study. Off the top of my head I can't see how it would be that useful since too many things play a factor. A team with a terrible outfield would allow way more extra base hits than a good one, and park factors come into play.

Since I don't think there's a lot of guys who allow a lot of doubles but not many home runs (I could be wrong here) it seems like home run rate serves a very similar purpose.

2008-11-10 11:25:43
58.   cargill06
57 I was thinking that if a guy can control IsoPBIP than guys whose IsoPBIP is consistantly lower than league average than you could expect him to be better than his periphals suggest he is.
2008-11-10 11:29:10
59.   regfairfield
58 Agreed, but is there that many guys who consistently don't allow doubles but give up a lot of home runs? It seems like home run rate does the same work.
2008-11-10 11:35:17
60.   cargill06
59 This is only one example, but Cole Hamels (gives up a lot of HR's) this year had a .080 IsoPBIP compared to Billingsley's (doesn't give up many HR's) .081 IsoPBIP.
2008-11-10 11:39:37
61.   Brent Knapp
Matt Holliday to the A's. But why? Aren't they still rebuilding?
2008-11-10 11:40:22
62.   cargill06
61 It's done?
2008-11-10 11:42:23
63.   fanerman
61 Did it happen?
2008-11-10 11:42:45
64.   JoeyP
Strange.
Unless the A's believe they can win next year, I'm surprised they make that deal since Holiday's a free agent after 2009.
2008-11-10 11:43:18
65.   fanerman
Are we speculating or did they make the trade?
2008-11-10 11:43:31
66.   Daniel Zappala
According to Heyman, the deal is "close".
2008-11-10 11:45:39
67.   Brent Knapp
Heyman at SI.com is reporting that almost done. I had no idea they were even involved.
2008-11-10 11:46:13
68.   cargill06
64 Look at that divison, the Angels should be a lot worse next year than this year.
2008-11-10 11:47:37
69.   Eric Enders
Stupid O'Dowd. Doesn't he know that I have Holliday in a keeper league?
2008-11-10 11:49:11
70.   MC Safety
44 Yeah, as Joe Morgan would say they just need to be more consistent. As for Cesc, not sure really. I'm not really too up on the papers and stuff. I read he wanted to be the next captain earlier this year somewhere. Haven't heard much else. Oh, and the vid is the one and only King Henry.
2008-11-10 11:51:44
71.   Eric Enders
Newsday speculates that Giambi might also sign with Oakland. You add he and Holliday to a team that was already a semi-contender in a division that's really weak... throw in improvement from young guys like Barton and Gio Gonzalez... well, I can see why Beane's going for it next year.

And like cargill said, the Angels are poised for a collapse. Teixeira's gone and may or may not get replaced, Vladi's getting older every year, K-Rod's probably gone, Joe Saunders can't really be expected to repeat his career year... that's probably an 85-win team next year depending on how much money they throw at the free agent market.

2008-11-10 12:00:39
72.   Eric Enders
Deal is done pending physicals, according to ESPN. No word on who he actually got traded for, which would seem to be, you know, important.
2008-11-10 12:02:05
73.   cargill06
The 1.068 home OPS vs. the .803 road OPS would have to concern you just a tad if you're an A's fan.
2008-11-10 12:09:45
74.   fanerman
I just want to know who they gave up.
2008-11-10 12:12:04
75.   Jon Weisman
73 - Considering that no one on the A's besides Jack Cust had an OPS above .803 last year, that probably looks pretty good to them.
2008-11-10 12:15:29
76.   Eric Enders
Home/road splits are screwy for Colorado hitters in part because they don't get to play road games at Coors Field like everyone else does.
2008-11-10 12:17:41
77.   Eric Enders
Maybe Beane's master plan is to flip Holliday on July 31 for a better haul than the one he just gave up.
2008-11-10 12:18:55
78.   JRSarno
Cool, I'm happy to make the NL West thinner with Holliday leaving. Let's just hope we don't get thinner too.
2008-11-10 12:20:29
79.   Eric Enders
I don't even have to tell you which FOX Sports reporter this comes from, do I?

"The A's are not acquiring him with the intention of flipping him or even trading him in July. The team is in position to increase its payroll to as much as $80 million, and plans to contend next season.

To that end, the A's also are targeting free-agent shortstop Rafael Furcal to be their leadoff man. Furcal is drawing interest from about 10 clubs, according to his agent, Paul Kinzer. The acquisition of Holliday could help persuade him that the A's are serious about competing."

2008-11-10 12:22:18
80.   JoeyP
77- Good point. At the very least, he'll get draft picks after 2009.

The Rox were asking for Ludwick/Schumacher/Boggs from the Cards. I wonder what they settled for???

It must suck to be a Rockies fan. Their crowds just completely fell off after the mid 90s. I doubt trading their best player will help bring them back now.

2008-11-10 12:23:12
81.   JoeyP
When do the A's move into their new stadium? 2011?? Their plan to be good is a bit ahead of schedule.
2008-11-10 12:24:15
82.   Tripon
The source believed the A's are sending closer Huston Street, outfielder Carlos Gonzalez and starting pitcher Greg Smith to the Rockies.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-hollidaytraded111008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

2008-11-10 12:26:51
83.   trainwreck
Carlos Gonzalez would be the only player that I would be sad to give up.
2008-11-10 12:27:33
84.   savvyjr
Actually seems like a good play by Beane. If they aren't in contention at the trading deadline, they can sell Holliday for more prospects. I pinch myself everytime I think the Dodgers could have had the progressive mind of Billy Beane as GM.
2008-11-10 12:28:41
85.   Eric Enders
81 2012. But they keep pushing the date back. Good news for them is that in the recent Fremont mayor's race, which was basically a referendum on the A's coming to town, the pro-A's candidate won. They would seem to have a clear path to approval now.
2008-11-10 12:28:58
86.   savvyjr
I bet the players the Rox end up getting isn't the 3 names mentioned above...maybe 2 of them.
2008-11-10 12:31:09
87.   Tripon
84 Rockies would have asked much more from the Dodgers from what they got from the A's. Kemp/Billingsley/Ethier/Broxton/.etc are abetter players than Street/Gonzalez/Smith are.

And there's that whole silly "gotta ask for more from a divisional rival even though we're not contending this year."

2008-11-10 12:31:09
88.   trainwreck
A's would be selling high with Street and Smith.
2008-11-10 12:33:52
89.   trainwreck
87
Teams around the league think a lot of Street and probably like that Smith is a young lefty. The A's are just smarter and realize the limitations of each player.

Carlos Gonzalez is actually going to be very good. Should be the centerfielder of the future for the Rockies.

2008-11-10 12:35:55
90.   JoeyP
The Rockies need starting pitching & getting Greg Smith, and a high upside CF'er in Gonzales isnt a bad haul for Holiday.

Rox would be smart to flip Street down the line.

2008-11-10 12:37:45
91.   regfairfield
89 Is he better than Dexter Fowler?

Gonzalez has a great ceiling but he's yet to put up impressive numbers at any level. He was probably the only guy in the organization other than Cahill that had a chance to become a star.

2008-11-10 12:39:00
92.   rockmrete
Anyone know anything on the 19 year old Cuban 3rd baseman that just became a free agent?
2008-11-10 12:40:31
93.   trainwreck
91
He is definitely rated more on his tools than production, but having seen him play in person a few times, his tools definitely do stick out. The defensive stats Jon has been posting showed that he was already an elite defensive centerfielder.
2008-11-10 12:40:38
94.   Eric Enders
Gonzalez isn't better than Fowler, but that doesn't really matter since there are spots open for both of them.
2008-11-10 12:41:15
95.   JoeyP
Carlos Gonzalez & Carlos Gomez are both high ceiling little production players.

Looks like both could be centerpieces in landing superstars (Johan & Holiday).

2008-11-10 12:43:57
96.   ToyCannon
88
How is that selling high? He lost his closer job because he was lousy this year. Carlos Gonzalez is a nice pickup but I won't miss not having to face Holliday.

Doubt if the Angels have as much trouble as Eric suggests. Remember they had the division won when the got Teixeira, he was just frosting for the postseason. They will spend some money this off season and they will have another 90 plus win season in 2009.

Strange to see the A's going with a veteran team. In years past the team was built with great young kids who peaked just before free agency. To bad the A's did nothing with those draft picks. Luckily Haren infused the team with some good blood and it looks like they used some of that to nab Holliday.

2008-11-10 12:44:13
97.   trainwreck
95
I thinkn Gonzalez is far better than Gomez. Gonzalez has pop in his bit and should be a solid hitter. I do not think Gomez will ever be able to hit.
2008-11-10 12:45:45
98.   trainwreck
96
Selling high on Street, because he is only going to get worse. They did not trade him at his peak value, but he is still well regarded by some just because he is a young closer.
2008-11-10 12:46:35
99.   trainwreck
I have been waiting for them to trade Street for a couple of seasons.
2008-11-10 12:46:46
100.   Xeifrank
Street would be a decent replacement for Fuentes. vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-11-10 12:53:15
101.   regfairfield
So where do the A's go from here? They at least have one legit hitter but the rotation is still terrible with Sean Gallagher as the number two.
2008-11-10 12:55:04
102.   trainwreck
101
I guess it depends on the money they want to spend. I would assume they will target a starter and reportedly are targeting Furcal.
2008-11-10 12:55:32
103.   das411
Is anyone else kind of hoping that after they flip Holliday at the deadline, the A's go out and sign a certain free agent all time home run leader to replace his offense?
2008-11-10 12:56:54
104.   Eric Enders
You know, the Rockies might still contend next year, expecially if it's going to be a division where 85 wins gets you first place. They still have Francis, Atkins, Hawpe, Stewart, Iannetta, Tulo, Helton. They could do well depending on how Gonzalez and Fowler fare in their first year in the majors. Although they'd probably do well to flip Atkins for whatever he'll bring this offseason.
2008-11-10 12:57:04
105.   trainwreck
There has been talk of them bringing back Giambi.
2008-11-10 12:57:35
106.   ToyCannon
100
As a Dodger fan I think he'd make a great replacement for Fuentes, I doubt if Rockie fans feel the same way.
2008-11-10 12:59:28
107.   ToyCannon
104
Just getting Taveras out of CF should do wonders for them just like it did for us when JP found his way to the DL and bench.
2008-11-10 13:00:53
108.   regfairfield
Let's say the A's somehow get Holliday, Sheets, and Furcal are they a good team yet?

Lineup:
SS Furcal
2B Ellis
LF Holliday
DH Cust
3B Chavez
RF Cunningham/Buck?
1B Barton
C Suzuki
CF Sweeney/Davis?

Sheets, Duchsherer, Gallagher, Eveland, Gio?

Is this even a .500 team?

2008-11-10 13:02:45
109.   ToyCannon
It wasn't long ago that the A's looked to have a great young left side of the infield with Cosby and Chavez. Locked em both up with long term contracts and then watched them both fall a part. The Hudson deal was a complete waste. Even Barton is now looking more and more like nothing since he's a 1st baseman whose only skills seems to be the walk. Good thing he went hard after Haren, that one piece of the puzzle continues to pay dividends.
2008-11-10 13:07:09
110.   Kevin Lewis
38

Perfect example of how all large companies make big mistakes with their customers. I have loved Sprint from the start, and it has been nothing but a pleasure for me. AT&T (the cell company) on the other hand is the bane of my existence.

2008-11-10 13:07:46
111.   trainwreck
108
Anderson and Cahill could find their way on the team, but I won't pretend to know what the A's are thinking.
2008-11-10 13:07:58
112.   regfairfield
Does anyone know what happened to Chris Denorfia this year?
2008-11-10 13:08:22
113.   cargill06
108 They'd be above average offensively at C,SS,LF,DH. Hovering right around average at 2B, 3B, and CF. Below average at 1B, and RF. That staff looks at least average. I'm in the camp that 88 wins, wins the divison.
2008-11-10 13:08:38
114.   regfairfield
111 Eventually, but I don't think they'd be there at the start.
2008-11-10 13:10:56
115.   Jon Weisman
NPUT

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