Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Help
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Search
Google Search
Web
Toaster
Dodger Thoughts
Archives

2009
02  01 

2008
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2007
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2006
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2005
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2004
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2003
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2002
09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Holes in the Bucket
2008-11-19 06:16
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

For an interview with a rival general manager, check out Jesse Spector of the New York Daily News querying Arizona's Josh Byrnes. Byrnes is trumping what his team has, rather than what it lacks:

On whether the type of moves the Diamondbacks will try to make require patience for the rest of the market. We've probably been a little more patient than usual. Usually, we've entered offseasons with maybe a few more needs, maybe a few more chips to play in order to fill those needs. A lot of what we've done trying to create roster stability, that's the good news -- we've still got (Steven) Drew, (Chris) Young, (Justin) Upton, (Conor) Jackson, Reynolds all 26 and under as core players. We've got (Brandon) Webb, (Dan) Haren, (Doug) Davis, (Max) Scherzer in the starting rotation. So we have been active, but we have a lowish number of holes we're trying to fill. We've also been trying to be patient and wait to see if some value comes to us, whether it's a trade or free agency. ...

While some of this is just a matter of keeping your sunny side up in public, the fact remains that the majority of the holes that a team has to fill are a) done at a low cost and b) a crapshoot. You're always hoping you end up with a Takashi Saito or Joe Beimel in the bullpen, but overpaying (or overstressing, especially in November) won't guarantee it.

* * *

Another Dodger prospect report: This one comes from Baseball-Intellect and includes video.

Comments (488)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-11-19 06:52:33
1.   D4P
My "The Green Monster probably gave Pedroia the MVP award" post essentially got LATed. But the issue is worth pondering.
2008-11-19 07:13:33
2.   Ranma
Tim Dierkes of MLBtraderumors.com reports that CoCo Crisp has been traded to the Royals with Ramon Ramirez sent the other way to help the Red Sox bullpen.

Also, per Ken Rosenthal:

The Yankees' farm system is strong enough to match up with the Padres if the teams revive their discussions on right-hander Jake Peavy. The Padres, according to one major-league source, told the Yankees that a deal would be possible even if the Yankees declined to offer right-hander Phil Hughes.

The Padres scouted Hughes in a recent Arizona Fall League game, but the Yankees have zero intention of trading him ...

http://tinyurl.com/65vdpr

With signs that the Padres have realized a rude awakening given Atlanta's withdrawal from negotiations--though I'm sure San Diego will revisit with the Braves--and the Cubs' securement of Dempster, would now be the time for Ned Colletti to leak interest from the Dodgers? It may put pressure from Peavy's camp to get a deal done to his preferred landing spot and Towers at this point may be more reasonable in his demands. Put those former PR skills to good use, Ned.

In the same article, executives from two teams interested in Derek Lowe have informed Rosenthal that Boras is seeking a Zito-like contract for Lowe. And we thought the Manny demands were outrageous.

2008-11-19 07:22:51
3.   Ken Noe
2 Nedster may just be happy to see Peavy go to the AL. It weakens the Pods and he doesn't have to risk getting rooked again like he was in the Maddux deal.
2008-11-19 07:36:29
4.   MC Safety
2 Ah, once again. The Yankees don't have to cough up over hyped Hughes, but the Dodgers have to include half their starting lineup plus Kershaw.
2008-11-19 07:39:41
5.   Disabled List
This has been a weird offseason for me so far. Normally I'm a hot stove addict, grabbing at every rumor and playing out trade scenarios for the Dodgers in my head. But this year, for whatever reason, I just can't muster up the energy to care. I've spent more time trying to figure out the triangles below than contemplating the Dodgers offseason moves.

I think it's because the Dodgers' young talent finally got the right complementary pieces and made a playoff run, but instead of having that be the beginning of an extended period of success, we've gone right back to rebuilding. And Ned Colletti's bungling in the free agent market in previous winters is crippling our ability to do what needs to be done to build off of 2008's success. It's depressing, because it really feels like it's going to be one and done for this team. I just have that sinking feeling that the Dodgers are going to pass up the top tier free agents, and are going to end up spending too much money on inferior talent, as always. And before you know it, the Dodgers' young talent is going to get expensive, and our window of opportunity with this group will close.

Sorry for the morning buzzkill. I'm sure it's just an extended hangover from a draining season, and I'll probably get back into the swing of things as soon as a few deals are made, but is anyone else feeling this way?

2008-11-19 07:58:29
6.   CanuckDodger
5 -- I too feel less interested in the Dodgers' off-season, but in a good way. I am not as apprehensive as I usually am this time of year about the Dodgers screwing up. The Dodgers' young players seem like they are safer than they have been in years. Nobody thinks the Dodgers are interested in giving up anything for Peavy, and that is the closest thing to a trade rumor we have had. The youth movement is entrenched.
2008-11-19 08:00:10
7.   MC Safety
Shortly before Euro 2008 began, I met a man who's in charge of the sports section of a large TV station's internet and teletext services. We got to talking about our respective jobs, and in the course of this conversation he said that sports journalism was a very strange beast because it's somehow become accepted that you're free to break all the rules of proper journalism if you're covering sports.

http://tinyurl.com/62d796

2008-11-19 08:03:07
8.   Bumsrap
5 - I just want to see the Dodgers sign CC and after that I have no interest in the off season as well.

If the Dodgers sign CC and trade for Peavy their rotation could be:

CC, Bills, Peavy, Kershaw, and Kuroda assuming Elbert and MacDonald are included in the Peavy trade.

Elbert and MacDonald represent two of the Dodgers top 5 prospects. Throw in DeJesus and the Padres would get three of the Dodgers top 5 prospects. That would be my top offer for Peavy and if that offer is ridiculous I don't care unless the Padres also want Pierre thrown in.

I might look at trading Kuroda for Beltre if the Padres trade were consummated.

2008-11-19 08:10:09
9.   Gen3Blue
(6) I share Canuck's feelings. It may be that the great interest I felt in the last few years was fueled by a dread of seeing what Ned might do next. And its true that the Dodger's recent free agent fortune leave them less room to manuever.
2008-11-19 08:28:11
10.   JoeyP
I dont really understand the Padres insistence on dealing Peavy this winter. They can always trade him sometime next year if they dont find a deal they like now.

The Red Sox OF looks like Bay/Ellsbury/Drew. Suprised they let Crisp go, but apparently they believe Ellsbury can do the job the entire year.

2008-11-19 08:38:15
11.   Dark Horse
5- I feel much as you do. The fear for me isn't the retention of our young players (I'm sure we'll keep 'em) so much as it is a fear they won't improve sufficiently AND that Colletti will, in his typically bungling fashion, sign chaff. Truthfully, if we can't sign Manny, CC and/or Furcal, I'd rather do next-to-nothing. Reap draft picks and rebuild the farm. My fear is that NedCo won't see that far ahead, doesn't recognize that the Credes, Renterias and Orlando Cabreras are worth far less than the picks we'd lose. That's my big fear. Because short of a few top tier signings, I don't see this team contending outside the division next year.
2008-11-19 08:38:41
12.   Jacob Burch
10 They gain nothing from keeping him (assuming, correctly, that they can't compete for much next year) and lose quite a bit (overall trade value of Peavy, the opportunity value in not paying his contract this year, etc etc).

I'm sure they don't think they have to trade him this year, but it's the preferred option by a large stretch.

2008-11-19 08:50:12
13.   Kevin Lewis
I think it was two threads ago that Cargillo suggested an off-season of CC, Dunn, and Hudson.

I just wanted to say I would be very pleased with that.

2008-11-19 09:00:06
14.   cargill06
13 Actually it was Furcal instead of Hudson. I think Furcal will be cheaper?
2008-11-19 09:09:46
15.   delias man
From LA Observed

Retired former Dodger Mike Piazza will write his autobiography, "discussing everything from the 2000 World Series incident when Roger Clemens threw a shattered bat at Piazza, and the press conference he held to deny rumors that he was gay to his tumultuous relationships with the Los Angeles Dodgers."

2008-11-19 09:20:29
16.   D4P
15
Go Mike! I despise Clemens.
2008-11-19 09:23:43
17.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
A new IQ test!
2008-11-19 09:25:36
18.   Kevin Lewis
14

Oh, still works for me!

2008-11-19 09:34:57
19.   D4P
I still can't believe how little Clemens was punished for throwing that bat at Piazza. That was a joke. Blatant favoritism and fear on the part of MLB.
2008-11-19 09:42:02
20.   madmac
19 but it wasn't Clemons fault, it was the roids.
2008-11-19 09:43:13
21.   Steve Now in Annapolis
13 I am still so mystified by the recurring desire of many on this board to sign Adam Dunn. I mean I know many will argue his statistic value, but I have never been frightened of Dunn as an opposing hitter. Perhaps it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I seem to remember him always striking out in "big" ABs instead of delivering a big hit. Isn't he a pretty pedestrian fielder? Does he offer any baserunning ability? Please let me know if I'm the only commenter who is anti-signing-Dunn.
2008-11-19 09:44:52
22.   Tripon
Sroba estimated that at least a half-dozen teams have had talks with him on Beimel, including the Tigers. He would not confirm whether he has received an offer from any, nor would he speculate whether Beimel could sign soon. Still, it was clear that talks have progressed this week.

http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/11/at_least_six_teams_in_mix_on_b.html

2008-11-19 09:46:21
23.   Jacob Burch
21 The best hitters record outs in big ABs about 70% of the time. This is mostly Broxton-selective memory, I promise you.

You can even ask Mr.Sutton how much he loves ADAM GETS IT DUNN!!!!!!!

That video still annoys me.

You're right in that he's no asset on the basepaths (Though I want to say he's not that slow) or defending, but the idea here is that because of his wonky skill set he will be undervalued by most clubs, and will be almost guaranteed to give you more than you're paying for him, baring some injury.

2008-11-19 09:49:14
24.   cargill06
21 Dunn is actually an above average baserunner. Him and Manny are both bad fielders, and Dunn can hold his own at the plate compared to Manny. If the Manny bidding gets out of hand Dunn is a much cheaper less risky solution.
2008-11-19 09:54:46
25.   Dark Horse
24-This is kind of the moment where my own sabremetric intelligence breaks down. I know Dunn is an excellent hitter, know he's a valuable asset, know he'd be a good get if we can't re-sign Manny...yet insofar as I've watched them both hit over the years, Dunn seems to me no more in Manny's league than any number of other hitters. It's just not close. Even if, in mathematical reality, it is. Such are the limits of old school scouting, I guess. But in any case, not in a million years will we sign Adam Dunn. I'd guess the Dodger brain trust would rather chance it with Andruw.
2008-11-19 10:09:19
26.   wronghanded
25 Its pretty simple to me, less K's= more RBI opportunities for a clean-up hitter. While Dunn would give us the occasional mammoth HR, he would also strike out 5 times between them on average. Thats a lot of LOB ABs for a 4 hitter. IMO their is a reason that we made the playoffs and the D-Backs didn't. Not neccesarily saying that he would be a bad signing but he doesn't hold a candle to Manny.
2008-11-19 10:10:53
27.   Kevin Lewis
25

When you compare him to Manny, it is tough for him to look too great. Yes, Batting Average is overrated, but I gotta say, Manny's slash stats from last year (.332/.430/.601) are phenomenal. Dunn put up .236/.386/.513) which is not bad on its own. I think this is why people feel much more confident when Manny comes up to the plate. Manny puts the ball in play a lot, and it falls for a hit much more. Those hits are often of the double variety.

2008-11-19 10:12:07
28.   Kevin Lewis
Maybe Manny isn't swinging for power quite as often, and this translates to more hits and less strikeouts.
2008-11-19 10:15:36
29.   Jacob Burch
26 Most less selective hitter puts poor contact on the ball + strikes out as often more than Dunn, and results in the same thing. Maybe they get more Sac flies, but Dunn is going to get more home runs.

I don't think the Dodgers are even considering Dunn unless they move one of the pieces of deadweight in the outfield, nor do I think he's in Manny's class*, but the idea that his style makes his numbers false somehow just isn't the case.

* - This is going to change after a couple season, however. Of course Manny in prime condition isn't a contest to Dunn, but that shine will dull eventually.

2008-11-19 10:16:44
30.   cargill06
It's just not close

Well, we're talking about a 37 year old player, a year removed from a .296/.388/.493 season. Dunn can do that, Manny has also missed 30 games 2 of the last 3 years. I'd rather have Manny, even if it means we'd have to paya little more. But if the Manny bidding war gets out of hand, NED GETS IT DUNN!

2008-11-19 10:17:14
31.   Jacob Burch
29 That first sentence is atrocious. Reworded:

Most hitters, being less selective than Dunn, will put poor contact on the ball or strike out more often than Dunn. It doesn't matter what the ratio is if it results in the same thing.

2008-11-19 10:18:05
32.   underdog
If Joe Beimel gets a big fat contract to pitch elsewhere, I say congrats and more power to him. I appreciate his time and enjoyed his personality. But given the Dodgers have Kuo, Elbert, plus (who knows!) Miller plus other guys, plus they found Beimel basically off the scrap heap, I'm fine with them not overpaying to keep him. I assume they'll offer him arbitration to get a Type B draft pick though?

--

Oh, and very belated, but congrats on the tent Jim. Looks cool!

2008-11-19 10:18:54
33.   Jacob Burch
32 Beimel will be offered Arb and he will not be with the Dodgers next year. Of all Off season possibilities, I am most certain of this.
2008-11-19 10:19:16
34.   wronghanded
28 I don't think Manny ever really changes his swing. I think the difference between the 2 is that Manny is reactive (lets the ball get deep and squares up barrel head) and Dunn seems to guess a lot (looks like he sits on certain pitches which make him look both foolish and amazing depending on if he guessed right).
2008-11-19 10:19:19
35.   cargill06
26 More K's = less GIDP. Look at Dunn's GIDP rate compared to Manny and Pujols. (Guys who don't K much.)
2008-11-19 10:19:56
36.   underdog
Both Dunn and Manny are below average outfielders, though I'd argue that Dunn is even worse. Dunn's K's are made up for quite a bit by his power, but I do think Manny is one of the greatest hitters ever and can hit to all fields and everything from singles to HR's with ease. To me, there's no comparison between the two guys, I'd rather overpay for Manny than overpay for Dunn.
2008-11-19 10:21:53
37.   wronghanded
31 I agree with you there I just think Dunn is less selective than Manny.
2008-11-19 10:22:01
38.   Jacob Burch
reg can come in and throw a report at me telling me I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that most studies on the direct difference shows an out is an out--Ks and normal put outs are a wash.

K rates are important for prospect scouting, but that's more indicative of other tendencies than an actual direct evaluation.

2008-11-19 10:23:19
39.   regfairfield
Dunn is actually a pretty good fit on this team. He doesn't work on a team without a lot of decent average guys because less than 20% of the time he does something that can drive in a runner. Surround him with other good players and he's great.
2008-11-19 10:23:38
40.   wronghanded
35 How many GIDP did Manny have last year? I think we need to look at raw totals rather than rates on that one.
2008-11-19 10:23:51
41.   Eric Stephen
33
Things that are close if not equal in certainty, for me:

1) Lowe declining arbitration and signing elsewhere
2) Kent retiring
3) Penny not being offered arbitration (which I don't agree with, given his reported high demand in the market)

2008-11-19 10:24:32
42.   Jacob Burch
37 Dunn is all selection. You're correct--all he does is wait, and wait, and wait, and wait.

I'm not saying he's more accurate in what he selects, but I'm prety sure Dunn is, by a considerable amount, the most selective hitter in the bigs.

Again, I'm welcome to be shown I'm wrong--but I think your disagreement comes to semantics of "selective"

36 The two concerns here are age and the idea that it's looking like you wouldn't have to overpay for Dunn.

2008-11-19 10:24:37
43.   regfairfield
38 Yep, strike outs are slightly worse (like three hundredths of a run) but the fact that you can hit into a double play by putting the ball in play makes striking out actually slightly better.
2008-11-19 10:24:46
44.   Eric Stephen
38 ,39
That was really good timing. Did you guys plan that? :)
2008-11-19 10:26:02
45.   wronghanded
38 I don't think thats the case when RISP ABs come up and hopefully those types of ABs are plentiful for a 4 hitter.
2008-11-19 10:26:32
46.   Jacob Burch
41 I'd put Beimel more certain than 2 and 3. I could see Kent ending up as a DH/1B/2B on one of the texas teams about 10% of the time, ditto Penny. I just can't see us paying Beimel a dime, and the demand for him is too great to not offer Arb.
2008-11-19 10:26:43
47.   Eric Stephen
I don't think it would ever happen, but I'm pretty sure my uncles, Dodger fans all, would spontaneously suffer head explosia if the Dodgers signed Mr. Dunn.
2008-11-19 10:26:46
48.   Bob Timmermann
Manny Ramirez had 12 GIDP with Boston and 5 with the Dodgers.
2008-11-19 10:28:42
49.   wronghanded
42 I guess my definition of selective is actually swinging at a drivable pitch. It would frustrate me to no end to watch Dunn take a heater down the pipe with runners on base.
2008-11-19 10:28:43
50.   Jacob Burch
45 It's probably only the case with RISP + First open. GIDP cancels out the marginal gain of Sac Flys.

Dunn does not record an out 41% of the time in his career with RISP. That's pretty incredibly great.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-11-19 10:30:31
51.   Jacob Burch
49 I agree Dunn is a more frustrating hitter then Manny, and causes much bewilderment. It's really not at all fun to watch a guy take a walk with first and third two out. But at the same time, you have to at least partially accept that Dunn's skill set wins as many ball games as a player who will be paid more than him.
2008-11-19 10:31:17
52.   Humma Kavula
36 I'd rather overpay for Manny than overpay for Dunn.

Nobody, but nobody, is saying that Dunn is better than Manny.

Some people believe that the market will work out such that (a) Manny's skills will be overvalued (if such a thing is possible) and he will be "overpaid," but (b) Dunn's skills will be undervalued and he will be "underpaid."

So the question is, would you rather overpay for Manny or underpay for Dunn?

2008-11-19 10:33:20
53.   Kevin Lewis
47

That made me smile.

In other news, our possible playoff game happens tonight. I give us a 30% chance of not playing. We suit up, warm up, and go home. That could suck

2008-11-19 10:33:30
54.   herchyzer
6 . Wouldn't Peavy be worth a number of Dodger prospects? I'd think an ace pitcher in his prime is worth a large wad of minor-league prospects, especially since he seems to want to play for us. The big club already has a core made up of young, former prospects. Forget about the possibly foolish trades that Ned made in the past. Sunk cost and all that. Now is the time to off some of our remaining prospect wealth to fill in an important missing piece, an ace.

Next, sign Dunn, if Manny's too rich (as is Sabathia, which is why I'm advocating for Peavy.) Now we have our cleanup hitter. Finish by signing one of the middle infield free-agents. I haven't the baseball knowledge to know which one would be the best choice.

Now, barring injury, would not the Dodgers be legitimate contenders for the next 3 seasons, and would they not have the payroll flexibility in the next 2-3 years to start selectively tying up a few of our own soon-to-be FA's?

2008-11-19 10:36:14
55.   jasonungar07
So did you guys talk about this?

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/11/yankeessabathia_whats_the_hold.html

2008-11-19 10:36:53
56.   wronghanded
51 I agree that Dunn's value is underrated, I just don't know that he provides us the neccesary skill set to put us over the top. I wouldn't hate a Dunn signing it would just be luke-warm to me.
2008-11-19 10:37:53
57.   Jacob Burch
54 He's worth a good number mix of A-/B prospects. The problem is the Dodgers don't have very many of those--we have major league ready players with A ceilings--which are considerably more valuable then A/B prospects--and a bunch of middling B/B- prospects.

You'd probably have to give up two of the former category to get Peavy, and that's probably not worth it.

You can ink me in as not-a-huge-peavy fan, I'd like to add. I'm not a huge buyer of non-Coors home/away splits, but his are sort of frightening. Certainly a great pitcher, but a 3.8 career ERA away from San Diego isn't necessarily the stuff of aces.

2008-11-19 10:38:01
58.   underdog
52 Okay, put that way, I can see the argument. Especially if Dunn is not only a relative "bargain" but can be signed to a shorter term deal (both of those things I'm a little doubtful about but maybe...) I also have no problem with, I appreciate, Dunn's ability to draw walks and be selective. I just still cringe at the thought of him playing the OF (yes, quite a bit more than even Manny) but yeah he can also spot start at 1B I suppose. I guess I still feel unconvinced he'd be worth the contract, but again it depends on the deal.

As long as he's not blocking the arrival of Andy Lambo. :-)

2008-11-19 10:38:24
59.   cargill06
40

Manny 17 GIDP (2.6 % of the time)

Dunn 7 GIDP (1.1% of the time)

For the record Manny's K rate last year was 19%, Dunn's was 25.2%. Also, for the record Dunn's BABIP was the about 30 points below his career average. It's reasonable to think he can have a jump in BA next year.

2008-11-19 10:38:41
60.   underdog
Or what wrong said in 56 .

No, really, I have to get working now guys, stop distracting me. ;-)

2008-11-19 10:38:43
61.   Jacob Burch
56 Alone Dunn isn't enough, but Dunn + money you save from not overpaying Manny spent on other players could be.

That's the theory anyways. And a theory it shall stay.

2008-11-19 10:43:20
62.   Harold M Johnson
55 Roy Halladay + Manny = Yes!

Who would we have to give up for Halladay? IS there a better pitcher then Halladay on any team?

2008-11-19 10:44:16
63.   regfairfield
Peavy?
2008-11-19 10:45:12
64.   rockmrete
The Padres not only want to trade Pevy...They want to cut payroll. Meaning Giles, and K Green could be had. Some creative thinking could have a collection of minor leaguers plus Pierre going the other way.
2008-11-19 10:45:44
65.   cargill06
62 At least 10
2008-11-19 10:46:40
66.   regfairfield
64 They want to cut payroll....so they'd take on a fairly expensive player?
2008-11-19 10:48:02
67.   Humma Kavula
I don't endorse this, but what about Kershaw for Peavy straight up? It's the bird-in-the-hand argument.

The Padres get to save money and get a pitcher who has a good chance of developing into a Peavy-like talent some day soon.

The Dodgers, who can afford to pay and may need the sure thing sooner rather than later, get the sure thing.

I know it's not quite that simple. There are at least a hundred reasons why this trade won't happen -- not least of which is the emotional argument that I'd hate to see the Minotaur develop into the Padres' ace.

But would it be a fair trade?

2008-11-19 10:49:23
68.   Jacob Burch
The Halladay rumor seems pure fluff to me, but I don't think there are half a dozen starters better than him.

Palm Ball baby!

2008-11-19 10:49:52
69.   rockmrete
Losing Giles salary for one year offsets Pierre for one year, and losing Green's can offset a second...Dodgers pay the third.
2008-11-19 10:50:34
70.   regfairfield
67 More than fair, I'd say. How happy would we be if Kershaw became Jake Peavy?
2008-11-19 10:51:16
71.   Ken Noe
LA has supposedly offered (or about to offer) 6/120 to CC. Halladay as a backup option.

http://tinyurl.com/55p2nf

2008-11-19 10:51:40
72.   cargill06
What cause Halladay's K rate to jump so much this year? Was it an abberation? Did he come up with a new pitch? The 2 years before this it was 5.5 K/9IP. 6.2 career before this year.
2008-11-19 10:51:51
73.   wronghanded
67 I think they'd also ask for Lambo or DeJesus still, which is criminal. Straight up, I think both sides get their desired value.
2008-11-19 10:52:05
74.   Humma Kavula
70 Well, that's kind of my point. I'm thinking it's not fair from the Padres' POV.
2008-11-19 10:53:07
75.   Humma Kavula
73 Okay, Kershaw and Xavier Paul for Peavy. Done. Who's calling the commissioner's office?
2008-11-19 10:53:08
76.   Humma Kavula
73 Okay, Kershaw and Xavier Paul for Peavy. Done. Who's calling the commissioner's office?
2008-11-19 10:55:16
77.   regfairfield
74 I agree, but I don't think many people will.
2008-11-19 11:01:11
78.   Tripon
Graziano speaks of "rumblings today that the Dodgers either have offered or are about to offer Sabathia a six-year contract worth between $110 and $120 million." He believes this could compel the Yankees to increase their offer, just to ensure a ridiculous ($30MM+) gap between the two proposals.

At least we're in the C.C. sweepstakes.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

2008-11-19 11:27:14
79.   cargill06
In Clevelands top prospects list, Carlos Santana is ranked #1 by BA.
2008-11-19 11:30:05
80.   fanerman
79 Not bad for an aging guitar god. Oh wait, the other one? Sniff..
2008-11-19 11:30:05
81.   Harold M Johnson
Actually giving it some more thought, Peavy is a much more attractive option then Halladay with one huge exception-- I couldn't stand to see the guys we'd give up become stars for the Padres.
2008-11-19 11:33:03
82.   ToyCannon
Have to say this is the first time I can remember a prospect who was barely ranked by BA moving up to number one within one year.
2008-11-19 11:36:52
83.   ToyCannon
I'd rather have Doc. For some reason Peavy bugs me, something about his Alabaman attitude and the fact he has left an egg whenever the Padres needed him to step up in post season. Between his two post season meltdowns and the 2007 last game of the season. Small sample size but when you are the ace, sometimes you need to pitch like an ace when the games really count.
2008-11-19 11:40:47
84.   Harold M Johnson
83 He is a lot younger though, and he's under team control for longer.
2008-11-19 11:47:20
85.   kngoworld
From Jerry Crasnick's retirement article:

" it's clear that big league teams are no longer willing to overpay for name recognition or past achievements. That's not about to change with the U.S. in a recession and season-ticket renewals and sponsorship dollars in potential decline."

Has Jerry met our dear friend Ned Colleti?

http://tinyurl.com/5l9gbd

2008-11-19 11:47:48
86.   Eric Stephen
Buster Olney must not recognize stats from the AL. From his blog today:

---------------------------
Posed a question here last month that still stands: If you were the Dodgers and you were prepared to offer $100 million-plus to some player, would you rather invest the money in:

(A) A 36-year-old historically great, high-impact hitter who is a poor outfielder and bears a reputation for quitting on his team. Or,

(B) A 28-year-old left-handed pitcher coming off a season in which he went 11-2 with a 1.65 ERA -- a player who has a sterling reputation as a person and a teammate, and who demonstrated staggering competitive integrity in how he took the ball for the Brewers down the stretch.

The choice is not even worthy of debate. If the Dodgers have $100 million-plus to spend -- and there are some in the industry who doubt whether that's actually the case -- then Sabathia makes all the sense in the world for them
--------------------------------

17-10 with a 2.70 (CC's seasonal totals) is certainly also great, and could have been used just as well.

2008-11-19 11:51:38
87.   kinbote
staggering competitive integrity

Where I'm from, we call that SCI.

2008-11-19 11:53:12
88.   Kevin Lewis
85

I was thinking about that, especially with how Zito's contract might impact Boras' ability to "sell" his clients based on past performance. But if someone is willing to pay...

2008-11-19 11:56:36
89.   Indiana Jon
After reading all these posts about Manny, Dunn and our left field situation with free agents, in relation to both ability and price, here's how I see it.

Dunn. Gentlemen, let's get to work.

Burrell, didn't you serve under Manny?

Not directly. Technically, Dunn was under Manny and I was under Dunn.

Yep.

So, Dunn, you were under Manny and over Burrell.

Yep.

That's right. Dunn was over Burrell and I was over Dunn.

So, you see, both Dunn and Burrell were under Manny, even though Burrell was under Dunn.

Dunn was over Burrell, and Manny was over Dunn.

2008-11-19 12:02:19
90.   jasonungar07
Roger....(Huh)
2008-11-19 12:10:34
91.   Kevin Lewis
Man, is that the new IQ test?
2008-11-19 12:13:00
92.   MollyKnight
I want CC. And I think he wants us.
2008-11-19 12:15:10
93.   MollyKnight
He could play left on his days off.
2008-11-19 12:18:27
94.   scareduck
92 - affairs of the heart are ineffable.
2008-11-19 12:19:41
95.   Harold M Johnson
93 He could be our #1 pinch hitter!
2008-11-19 12:29:58
96.   trainwreck
No!! They are re-making the Host.

Booooooooooo!

2008-11-19 12:31:44
97.   old dodger fan
Let's sign CC and C how much money we have left. After that I think we're Dunn.
2008-11-19 12:37:27
98.   trainwreck
I am not going to talk about the Dodgers till something actually happens. You are not tricking me this year, Hot Stove.
2008-11-19 12:40:11
99.   DaDoughboy
84.
The difference between 31 and 27 years old would be negligible.

Dunno, maybe I'm dense, but I don't see a real statistical difference between Doc/Peavy/CC..

2008-11-19 12:40:17
100.   underdog
96 Let me guess, Spielberg and Will Smith again? Shouldn't be a surprise, after all the J-Horror remakes and the Oldboy nonsense.

But seriously, why remake something that perfect, and which fits South Korea so well? We already have Cloverfield, do we need another one?

Btw, anyone else having trouble getting MLBtraderumors to load today? Must be Hot Stove overload. Just as well, I have too much work, shouldn't be checking that site anyway.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-11-19 12:42:03
101.   trainwreck
100
Gore Verbinski is producing.

The Host is such a better film than Cloverfield and that's what the remake will probably be like.

2008-11-19 12:44:38
102.   underdog
101 Yah that was my point - it'll probably be just like Cloverfield, with none of the empathy you have for the characters in The Host, and so it's even more pointless. Sigh, I should give up trying to write original scripts and just find an Asian horror film to rip off. Everyone's doing it.
2008-11-19 12:48:26
103.   trainwreck
102
I also think it is funny that they are taking one of the most anti-American films and remaking it. They will probably get rid of most of that and blame corporations or something.
2008-11-19 12:56:45
104.   Xeifrank
As far as trading Kershaw for Peavy straight up, I probably wouldn't do it. Kershaw will shortly be of the same talent level as Peavy and he is cheaper, under control for a longer period of time and has less innings on his arm. I think if you pitch both Peavy and Kershaw in the same park, their rate stats will look pretty similar. Peavy should be good for a few more innings in 2009 but that doesn't make it worth it to me.
vr, Xei
2008-11-19 12:59:28
105.   Xeifrank
Nice to see that UCSB is hosting the #1 ranked TarHeels this year (atleast #1 at the moment). I remember the good ole days (back when I attended UCSB) and the Gauchos were slayers of top ranked (UNLV) basketball teams. I believe one year that UNLV was number one, they had two regular season losses, both to UCSB (thanks to Brian Shaw, Carrick DeHart and Eric "Freeze" McArthur).
vr, Xei
2008-11-19 13:02:38
106.   underdog
Fess up though, train, you're excited about the prospects of a He-Man Masters of the Universe movie! ;-)
http://movies.ign.com/articles/931/931876p1.html

105 Indeed, Xei. Should be fun, though the odds are they'll get blown out. (I wouldn't be surprised though if they lose by about the same score Kentucky did to NC.) But they have nothing to lose and it's good exposure. Carolina's a little banged up, so maybe they'll only lose by less than 20. Too bad my cable provider doesn't offer ESPNU, because it's televised there. Sigh.

2008-11-19 13:04:37
107.   Harold M Johnson
105 I was in Junior High/HS during those years and a huge Gauchos fan. Those Thunderdome years were awesome.
2008-11-19 13:06:17
108.   DaDoughboy
105.
Gosh Xei, I didn't know we had so many Gaucho alum here on DT...Were you part of the initial tortilla throwing crowd?
2008-11-19 13:07:03
109.   trainwreck
106
They should make it into a comedy.
2008-11-19 13:11:40
110.   underdog
109 Should, but they will likely do it with a straight face.

108 Not an alum but grew up there attending games. Definitely remember when it was more accurately the Thunderdome, crazy place. Lately it's been more like the Slumberdome, though the fairly boisterous crowd there for the USU game Monday was a good sign.

2008-11-19 13:17:50
111.   LogikReader
I'm such a moron. Here I am getting all hyped up about the UNC game at the Thunderdome, a mere 1000 feet from me, and I forgot the game is on this Friday.

OF COURSE the tickets are sold out! Now instead of paying a mere 12 dollars, I'll have to shell out 100 bucks a pop.

Dang... a day late and a dollar short.

2008-11-19 13:19:51
112.   trainwreck
111
It is quite easy to just walk in and watch the games for free. : )
2008-11-19 13:19:52
113.   underdog
111 I'd donate something to your ticket if you can sneak a webcam in to film the game, or convince Comcast to stop sucking and add ESPNU.
2008-11-19 13:21:23
114.   Harold M Johnson
Wow lots of SB people here! Hope you were all OK during the fires.
2008-11-19 13:21:23
115.   underdog
Are you a student there, Logik? If so, 100 more tickets were released to students, to try for on Friday morning.

http://ucsbgauchos.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/111808aaa.html

2008-11-19 13:22:51
116.   68elcamino427
It appears that the U.S. and Global economy is headed into the first "deflation" in 70 years - since the last world wide "Great Depression".

If the value of future a dollar will be worth less than the value of today's dollar - what implications will this bring to bear on any pending enormous long term contracts as it relates to a ball club's fiscal health in the years ahead?
IE - You purchase a house today on a ten year note for $1,000,000.00 and five years from now you have a difficult time selling the same property for $500,000.00

Does anyone else feel that this is a legitimate concern?

If people have less disposable income available will this have a direct impact on non-esential spending (sporting events)?

If McCourt is already operating from a debt leveraged position - would it be most prudent to tread cautioustly in terms of long term mega contracts?

Especially when there seems to be plenty of young and "inexpensive" home grown talent already on hand?

Will the "market" for the over priced contracts be very slow to develop this off season as we all tread into some very uncertain financial times?

As a deflation example -
How many years did Japan have a 0% intrest rate?

2008-11-19 13:23:40
117.   trainwreck
We should offer to pay free agents in Euros.
2008-11-19 13:26:24
118.   still bevens
116 Does this mean my decision to actually save money will be rewarded or punished?
2008-11-19 13:27:12
119.   LogikReader
155

Nah, I went to school at Cal Lutheran, but I could still use the ID for LA Kings College night.

The next college night features Ovechkin and the Capitols!

ps: Thanks for the heads up though, Underdog.

2008-11-19 13:27:55
120.   LogikReader
119 was for 115
2008-11-19 13:31:00
121.   LogikReader
114

Thank you Harold. Fortunately I was spared most of the Agony. I did not have to evacuate. My mom tells me Christopher Lloyd was not as lucky.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/actor-christopher-lloyd-loses-home-in-tea-fire/3911632358/?icid=VIDLRVNWS03

I feel really bad for Mr. Lloyd. He's a good chap and he usually emcee's our Christmas Parade.

2008-11-19 13:31:52
122.   Ranma
Here's a critique on Kevin Tower's handling of the Jake Peavy situation, especially in relation to how Billy Beane has handled trades, from an Oakland A's fan site:

http://tinyurl.com/6h8qsm

Let's review these events, in analogy form:

1. Kevin Towers asked his dream girl, Atlanta, to the dance over the loud speaker on the morning announcements.
2. Atlanta publicly said no.
3. Kevin asked three other girls, who came back with, "I have a hair appointment," "My cat is sick," and "I don't like to dance."
4. Kevin returns to girl #1, beaming, and says, "Good news - I can still go with you!"

2008-11-19 13:33:11
123.   68elcamino427
118
It may portend that many more people will be fortunate to have any money available to save at all.
2008-11-19 13:36:45
124.   cargill06
118 It depends when you plan on using that money. If you don't use it for 30 years from now, and the economy recovers than, yes, you'll be rewarded.
2008-11-19 13:37:35
125.   underdog
Yeah I felt bad for Lloyd, too. My stepdad has seen him at his local gym (the downtown SB 24 Hr Fitness of all places) and he always seemed pretty nice. Really sad that he lost some mementos and such.

Hrm, UNC lost another key player in their frontcourt, as Tyler Zeller is out for the year after injuring his wrist.

2008-11-19 13:38:32
126.   Humma Kavula
104 I don't know if I'd do it either, but it's a huge assumption to say that "Kershaw will shortly be of the same talent level as Peavy."

Of course, it doesn't really matter, because that trade won't happen.

2008-11-19 13:39:03
127.   underdog
122 Didn't Atlanta also offer up a pretty good package to SD first, before pulling out because SD couldn't decided or had turned them down? Or did I mishear that? Seems like there was potential for more from Atlanta than they'd get from NYY or some of the other rumored teams.
2008-11-19 13:40:24
128.   regfairfield
127 I thought all the packages the Braves offered were pretty horrible. Yunel Escobar for Jake Peavy doesn't seem very fair.
2008-11-19 13:40:40
129.   trainwreck
125
Only one team in nation could handle all these injuries and it is UNC. Absolutely loaded.
2008-11-19 13:40:51
130.   Ranma
Did anyone figure how many triangles are in the IQ test? I counted at least 37 but the list of answers only goes as high as 35.
2008-11-19 13:41:37
131.   LogikReader
125

I wonder if the DeLorean survived or if was it sent back to 1955.

2008-11-19 13:45:05
132.   Pecos Bill
Sign Manny for 5 yr ($125) guaranteed ($75) contract for $25, $20, $15, $10, $5 per year with incentives to $25 per year. Incentives based upon plate appearances. Balances team and player risk. Player buys insurance. As long as Manny is better than Pierre he plays and makes alotta money.

Sign CC for 12 year ($240 mil) guaranteed ($120 mil) contract for $20 mil during years 1 to 4; and $5 mil annual during years 5 to 12. He buys insurance. Incentives based upon games played. As long as CC is better than Park he plays and makes alotta money.

Platoon Nomar ($2 mil plus incentives for games played) and DeWitt at 3rd.

Sign Furcal at half of Manny's Contract.

Let 2nd base be the trainee position for the next good infielder ie, Hu, Abreu, DeJesus etc.

Sign a good back up catcher.

Sign Randy J ($6 Mil) as interim pitcher to decrease McDonalds innings during 2009.

Invite Maddox to Spring Training as player/coach (min $500K) and hire as special intructor for A and AAA; (which also functions as a tryout to replace Honey)

After new players are signed send Jones to AAA and sue him for fruadulent misrepresentation. Was he on pain killers during his physical? Presumably he came to camp last year out of shape because he was too injured to workout.

2008-11-19 13:45:45
133.   scareduck
116 - Deflation is not a real problem, for several reasons:

1) Yes, crude oil prices have been heading down, bringing with them price declines in anything that depends on petroleum-based products as well. But this process is slow, slower than the process that brings prices up.

2) Housing prices were inflated as a class because of poor decision-making at mortgage originators, and because of speculation. The current deflation is based on the needs of actual housing customers.

3) Fiat currencies are always inflationary. The principle argument against specie currencies are that they are deflationary in a stable mining environment during economic booms, but inflationary during mining booms (e.g. Spain in the colonial period, the U.S. for silver during the era of the Comstock Lode); in general, these will not coincide with each other, while a fiat currency can be adjusted as required. Generally, politicians discover the money tap and use it for their own enrichment. I forget where I read it, but the dollar has lost something like 95% of its purchasing power since Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard.

2008-11-19 13:46:52
134.   cargill06
132 Do you own the resturant?
2008-11-19 13:47:31
135.   Ranma
130 I see now. I forgot to include the upside-down triangles which would put the total number of smallest triangles at 35. However, if you include the big overall medium-sized triangles within the big triangle, my count puts it at 47 overall.
2008-11-19 13:48:30
136.   regfairfield
132 I don't think McCourt wants a 150 million dollar payroll.
2008-11-19 13:48:40
137.   trainwreck
132
We are going to need to find a money tree first.
2008-11-19 13:48:57
138.   Ranma
135 I meant to say, "...if you include the big overall triangle along with the medium-sized triangles within the big triangle..."
2008-11-19 13:49:05
139.   still bevens
127 I think Peavy pulled a Kobe and started making demands that the team he get traded to didnt get too weakened by the players given up for him going to SD.
2008-11-19 13:49:50
140.   scareduck
118 - punished. Severely. This is the problem with ANY kind of bailout for the mortgage crisis:

1) If you bail out the lenders, you reward those who made foolish decisions to write or purchase mortgages that couldn't be collected upon (i.e. the results of mortgage fraud).

2) If you bail out the homeowners, you reward bad behavior in that they got in over their heads.

Both ends punish people who saved money in order to buy a home, because such measures artificially prop up real estate prices and keep home ownership ever more distant for people who live within their means.

This is what we call "moral hazard".

2008-11-19 13:52:49
141.   TrueBlueOz
125
I use to see Mr. Lloyd at the local coffee place a lot. He seemed to always be very nice and not up himself.
2008-11-19 13:55:18
142.   Bob Timmermann
I plan on putting all my money into tulip bulbs.

It worked in The Netherlands once.

2008-11-19 13:57:09
143.   cargill06
For the Tigers having a disgustingly bad staff last year, I wonder why we haven't heard anything about them and Peavy, or signing a guy.
2008-11-19 13:57:21
144.   underdog
128 But wasn't there quite a bit more to one of those offers than Escobar? Thought there were several other players mentioned at one point, though again I'm not clear how real that was, and I agree, it probably still was not enough for Peavy. Still, I don't know if the Yankees have the prospects to even match that.
2008-11-19 13:59:38
145.   trainwreck
Everyone knows the Pads have to cut payroll and rebuild and on top of that, Peavy will only go to certain teams.

Every team knows they are not going to have to pay top dollar for Peavy.

2008-11-19 14:00:12
146.   CanuckDodger
A Kershaw-for-Peavy trade is not even close to being a fair trade for the Dodgers. Peavy's overrated based on Petco stats. He was a 4.28 ERA pitcher on the road this year. He is a huge injury risk not just on his record but on his mechanics, which make MY arm hurt just watching them. He is also not cheap, especially after 2009. And then there is the matter of what the trade market value of Peavy is. The Braves' package was the best offer the Padres got, and that offer was all about quantity over quality. Had that trade gone through, the Braves wouldn't have lost a SINGLE player I would have cared about losing. Yet people here are content to give up our Golden Boy for Peavy? No way, and I am confident the Dodgers feel the same way.

This illustrates why I said earlier that I am not apprehensive about the Dodgers this off-season. I am sure there are many DT people more inclined to have the Dodgers make what I consider bad moves involving our young players than Colletti is inclined to right now.

2008-11-19 14:00:48
147.   Eric Stephen
143
For the Tigers having a disgustingly bad staff last year, I wonder why we haven't heard anything about them and Peavy, or signing a guy

In the immortal words of Randy Moss, "straight cash, homey."

2008-11-19 14:03:17
148.   Kevin Lewis
140

We need to learn to live without credit cards. Sure, we will give up some luxuries, but we are living beyond our means.

2008-11-19 14:03:36
149.   mwhite06
143 The Tigers are probably counting on Bonderman and Willis being back. From what I've read, Bonderman should be fine, but Willis was getting lit up in the lower minors at the end of last year. Bonderman should return to form, but Willis will give no production.

Detroit media has mentioned Lowe several times. I believe he is a Michigan native as well.

2008-11-19 14:05:11
150.   trainwreck
In the words of Charles Barkley:

Dontrelle Willis is terrrrble.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-11-19 14:05:48
151.   Kevin Lewis
135
My count put it at 42, but I just noticed the triangle and answers changed from the front page of Dodger Thoughts to when I clicked on the comments section.
2008-11-19 14:07:47
152.   Jacob Burch
I have found a Peavy doubter in Canuck! This is like the star of Teen Heart Street using your previously-bland fashion sense! I am validated!
2008-11-19 14:10:28
153.   Dodgers49
Japanese Irked at U.S. Interest in Pitching Phenom

>> Many Japanese baseball officials are outraged that U.S. teams are courting Tazawa, a hard-throwing right-handed pitcher, because they insist it is long-established practice for amateurs like him to be strictly off-limits to major league clubs. <<

## Tazawa thrived this summer, posting a 10-1 record and a 1.02 earned-run average for Japan Oil and striking out 95 batters in 88 1/3 innings. ##

%% "I'm looking forward to signing with an American team and seeing what I can do," he said. "The appeal of matching power and against power is too great for me to pass up." %%

http://tinyurl.com/5c8bkj

2008-11-19 14:11:34
154.   Humma Kavula
152 Google tells me that this is a Doug reference, and an obscure one at that.

Hats off to you, sir!

2008-11-19 14:12:58
155.   Jacob Burch
154 Eric Stephen was greatly out pacing me in obscure simile allusions. I had to make a comeback somehow.
2008-11-19 14:13:01
156.   I Love LA
according to a report on realgm baseball, if the Dodgers don't acquire halladay from the Bluejays then indications are we will compete with NY in the CC sweepstakes for 6 yrs $110 mil.

No idea how accurate it is, but I take it with a grain of salt. I didn't know we were trying to trade for halladay?

I repeat my preference to go all out to bring back Manny.

2008-11-19 14:14:26
157.   silverwidow
Tony Jackson has debunked all of today's rumors (CC, Halladay, Ibanez).
2008-11-19 14:15:34
158.   Pecos Bill
145 Mil for 2009 and 115 Mil plus arbitration increases for 2010. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet. We will find out how bad he wants to win the world series by the amount of investment he makes.
2008-11-19 14:16:59
159.   regfairfield
143 They have no prospects to deal accept Porcello?
2008-11-19 14:17:56
160.   regfairfield
158 Why not just add Teixiera and Hudson to the plan then?
2008-11-19 14:21:53
161.   trainwreck
152
I should dress as Quail Man for Halloween some year.
2008-11-19 14:22:26
162.   mwhite06
159 I think Matt Joyce has value, but I'm not sure how willing they are to moving him with their rapidly aging corner outfielders.
2008-11-19 14:22:46
163.   LogikReader
btw, on Friday, the Thunderdome will need all the "woo girls" we can get!
2008-11-19 14:23:15
164.   Jacob Burch
161 I'm friends with someone who did already, so the idea is tainted. I thought about green face and going as Roger Klotz, but after being Tyrone Biggums one year and Torgo another, I've grown tired of over-zealous face modifications.
2008-11-19 14:23:20
165.   Tripon
Andy Roddick's agent (New York): So could Andy Roddick throw 95?

Will Carroll: I tried to find this out a couple years ago, but you [redacted]-blocked me. He was ready to do it at the RCA Championships. My guess is low-90s out of the box, mid-90s with some practice. I'd also bet it'd be flat as a rail at first too.

2008-11-19 14:24:54
166.   68elcamino427
133
You might be interested in an article that appeared Monday 11/17/08 in the OC Register "Marketplace"
Prices likely tumbling as economy suffers - Bloomberg News.
See how it correlates to the reports that were actually released today.
2008-11-19 14:27:19
167.   trainwreck
164
I went as Mitch Hedberg once. No one got it.
2008-11-19 14:28:11
168.   underdog
160 - The plan keeps coming up again
The plan means nothing stays the same
But the plan won't accomplish anything
If it's not implemented
Like it's always been.
2008-11-19 14:31:19
169.   Tripon
Rob (Brighton): What did you think of the Japanese girl who throws the side-armed knuckle ball? It's pretty cool to see a woman get drafted, and I have an inexplicable love for junk ballers. Hope she makes it in NPB.

Will Carroll: No idea. I haven't seen her, but given indy leagues penchant for gimmicks, I guess until they dress her up like Gogo Yubari, we have to give her some credit. It's better than that pig that brings the balls out in St Paul.

2008-11-19 14:33:42
170.   Tripon
raygu1 (burlington, nj): Will-thanks for the chat. Should Torre be worried about the innings Kershaw pitched in 2008? how about Billz?

Will Carroll: No on Kershaw, who was handled very gingerly and perhaps too cautiously, if that's possible. Dont think so on Billingsley, though his body type is always going to be an issue.

2008-11-19 14:35:04
171.   Eric Stephen
167
That would have been awesome.

I definitely would have brought with me a loaf of bread...and some other people.

2008-11-19 14:35:43
172.   regfairfield
How was accelerating Kershaw's innings from 50 in high school to 170 too cautious?
2008-11-19 14:38:33
173.   Kevin Lewis
Scratch that. I now see 47 triangles.
2008-11-19 14:39:07
174.   arborial
170 Is "body type" a thinly veiled reference to his Thunder Thighs?
2008-11-19 14:40:44
175.   trainwreck
171
I should have caught a frog and stuck it in a mayonnaise jar with a stick and leaf to recreate its environment.
2008-11-19 14:41:29
176.   Ranma
151 Thanks, Kevin.

153 Page 2 of that article also seems to indicate that Colletti will be one of those GM's looking to sign the late-blooming "Junichi Tazawa" with an expected price tag between $2-$5 million.

"There's a fine line between falling behind the competition because you're quote being respectful, and competing like others will compete," said Ned Colletti, g.m. of the Los Angeles Dodgers. "We have to be wise in our decision-making at the moment of truth."

http://tinyurl.com/6p3s85

I am a bit concerned with the opening note in the article about him skipping homework and sneaking home after sunrise. Are these innocent, isolated instances or regular occurrences not conducive to a professional career with the L.A. nightlife?

2008-11-19 14:42:28
177.   CanuckDodger
172 -- You are missing a year in between high school/GCL and 2008. But I agree with your larger point: the Dodgers were certainly not "too cautious." They increased his innings from 2007 by about 48.
2008-11-19 14:42:47
178.   cargill06
175 Jon's publisher read his book and asked him to write another copy.

Jon replied, " that, I'll just go to Kinko's"

2008-11-19 14:43:51
179.   Ranma
173 Cool. We're on the same page than. ;-)
2008-11-19 14:53:01
180.   trainwreck
176
Athletes skipping homework and partying is about as common as the name Mike.
2008-11-19 14:53:56
181.   regfairfield
I thought only Russ did that.
2008-11-19 14:56:17
182.   Harold M Johnson
180 Athletes skipping homework and partying (in Japan) is about as common as the name Mike (in Japan).
2008-11-19 14:56:58
183.   trainwreck
182
That is why he is perfect for America.
2008-11-19 14:57:24
184.   trainwreck
Miike ain't that far off from Mike.
2008-11-19 14:59:11
185.   trainwreck
182
Actually, the newer generations of Japanese students have started to rebel against school and other aspects of the culture. I wrote a paper on it.
2008-11-19 15:01:43
186.   trainwreck
Mike Mussina is going to retire according to Sportscenter.
2008-11-19 15:03:00
187.   Bob Timmermann
186
But he's the 8th most valuable player in the AL isn't he?
2008-11-19 15:03:07
188.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
118
Deflation hurts people who have borrowed money. From that standpoint, as a saver, you are better off in a period of deflation.
2008-11-19 15:03:54
189.   Eric Stephen
186
Posnanski had a couple of good blog posts earlier in the week on Moose, regarding his HOF worthiness.

I tend to be on the "Mussina is a HOF" side rather than not, but it's certainly close.

2008-11-19 15:12:05
190.   trainwreck
Pac-Man has been reinstated.
2008-11-19 15:13:05
191.   Eric Stephen
190
What about Galaga?
2008-11-19 15:13:40
192.   trainwreck
191
That's always been good.
2008-11-19 15:16:25
193.   Bob Timmermann
Mussina wouldn't get my HOF vote but I have an irrational dislike of all things Stanford.

I only pretend to like Jon and Daniel.

2008-11-19 15:18:03
194.   Indiana Jon
I was checking Mussina's career numbers (actually I was comparing them to Blyleven), and noticed that he only had one balk in his entire career. The balk came in his rookie year as a 22 year old. He then pitched around 3500 more innings, over 17 years, without ever balking again. This seems pretty amazing to me. Has anyone ever pitched that many innings with so few balks before?
2008-11-19 15:20:42
195.   Eric Stephen
193
But Mussina does crosswords!

194
That's insane. Wow.

2008-11-19 15:22:57
196.   trainwreck
195
I bet he can't beat Lisa Simpson or Gil.
2008-11-19 15:24:40
197.   cargill06
194 That is an unreal stat. Pretty impressive, most of his career as a power pitcher his career BB/9IP 2.0.
2008-11-19 15:27:22
198.   Bob Timmermann
194
If you want a 20th century pitcher, Wilbur Cooper tossed 3480 innings in his career with nary a balk.

Six 19th Century players had more innings, but there were very, very, very few balks called then and they might not have been recorded correctly anyway.

2008-11-19 15:31:24
199.   Indiana Jon
198 Any way to see exactly how many consecutive innings Mussina went without a balk and what the record is for most consecutive?
2008-11-19 15:32:03
200.   Indiana Jon
199 20th century of course.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-11-19 15:33:55
201.   Dodgers49
Sabathia bidding war about more than money

>> But, and here's the thing, there's a reason why the Yankees' offer to CC Sabathia – believed to be for about $140 million over six years – hasn't seemed to scare anybody off.

"Maybe," said a GM who'd rather see CC in his colors, "he doesn't want to pitch there." <<

## Yankees sources grant they'll have to pay more to convince Sabathia to move East. They also believe their offer will not be matched – which was the plan, obviously – but probably will have to be increased anyway. ##

%% Andruw Jones has told the Dodgers he'll begin playing in the Dominican winter league Dec. 6, about a week short of the anniversary of signing his two-year, $36.2-million contract. Still just 31, Jones is working with a personal trainer in an attempt to strengthen his knee and cut weight. He presumably hopes the winter at-bats will help him find his stroke, which, after signs of trouble in 2007, deserted him in 2008. Meantime, the Dodgers have yet to measure the market on Juan Pierre, whom they'll need if Jones is still the flailing Jones in 2009. Due $28.5 million over the next three years, Pierre will be a tough sell, of course. … Casey Blake is finding his market is nearly as strong as an outfielder as it is a third baseman. %%

http://tinyurl.com/5smsny

2008-11-19 15:34:38
202.   Eric Stephen
199
Mussina finished his career (reportedly) with 3,497 consecutive balkless innings.
2008-11-19 15:34:56
203.   Kevin Lewis
I feel like umpires are calling balks less and less these last few years.
2008-11-19 15:35:48
204.   Bob Timmermann
Looks like Mussina's streak was 3491 1/3 innings.

The balk came in this game:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE199109220.shtml

After the balk, the next batter, Carlos Baerga, lined into a DP.

2008-11-19 15:35:53
205.   trainwreck
Karl Ravech lives in a fantasy world.

He said the additions of Coco Crisp and Mike Jacobs will make things harder for the top teams in the AL Central now.

2008-11-19 15:36:19
206.   Bob Timmermann
202
I will go with Eric's math.
2008-11-19 15:37:09
207.   Indiana Jon
202 or 204 that is the question.
2008-11-19 15:37:11
208.   Bob Timmermann
203
Someone misses 1988 for a different reason.
2008-11-19 15:38:12
209.   Humma Kavula
195

Mussina does the USA Today puzzle.

http://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.com/archives/408285.html

Call me when he does a NYT Saturday puzzle. That's a man's puzzle.

2008-11-19 15:38:51
210.   Bob Timmermann
Mussina's streak is greater than the IP in Wilbur Cooper's career regardless.

Tim Keefe was over 5700 IP in his career without a balk. He might have committed one, but in his era, balks were considered errors on the pitcher.

2008-11-19 15:40:25
211.   Indiana Jon
So did he break Wilbur Cooper's consecutive innings streak in his last couple months of baseball? What a story if that's true. Why wasn't it national news?
2008-11-19 15:42:24
212.   Eric Stephen
211
Maybe Pedro Gomez, Jayson Stark, et al, pitched this as a story idea, but their producers/editors balked at the idea.
2008-11-19 15:43:13
213.   Eric Stephen
209
I like to do the TV Guide crossword.
2008-11-19 15:43:55
214.   cargill06
212 Bada bing
2008-11-19 15:44:58
215.   DaDoughboy
211.
He probably balked at the idea of being in the record books for balks.
2008-11-19 15:45:34
216.   cargill06
This Mussina balk topic seems like it's right up "The Griddle's" alley.
2008-11-19 15:46:42
217.   Bob Timmermann
Jon Garland leads all active pitchers in IP without a balk with 1625 1/3 IP. The tops among 20th Century Hall of Famers for IP without a balk is 2503 by Lefty Gomez.

Randy Wolf has gone 1468 in his career without a balk.

2008-11-19 15:48:10
218.   bigcpa
Random Pedro Feliz sighting at Versailles in Culver City today. Should I sent this to mlbtraderumors.com?
2008-11-19 15:48:39
219.   underdog
I was once bored in a waiting room when I was briefly a delivery person for a film studio, and picked up a copy of People Magazine, and did the crossword while waiting. Took me about five minutes and yet I actually felt dumber after doing it.
2008-11-19 15:49:33
220.   DaDoughboy
212.
Darn it. Shot down by Eric "Quick Draw" Stephen again.
2008-11-19 15:49:46
221.   underdog
218 Sure, it's about as useful as a Joel Sherman rumor so why not?

On a completely unrelated note, anyone know any decent women soccer players in the SF bay area?

2008-11-19 15:50:22
222.   Indiana Jon
217 So much for my theory that lefties balk more.
2008-11-19 15:50:23
223.   trainwreck
217
Hopefully we do not have to see Garland keep that streak going up close.
2008-11-19 15:51:20
224.   Indiana Jon
222 but they still write funny.
2008-11-19 15:51:21
225.   Bob Timmermann
I thought Versailles Restaurant was in Palms and not Culver City.
2008-11-19 15:52:05
226.   Bob Timmermann
224
Kirk Rueter was never called for a balk in over 1900 IP.
2008-11-19 15:53:27
227.   cargill06
223 You just gave me the chills. Please don't say that, in all seriousness I think I'd rather have Chan Ho than Jon "how do you pronounce your first name" Garland.
2008-11-19 15:54:26
228.   trainwreck
227
Unfortunately, Diamond Leung says we are interested.
2008-11-19 15:54:54
229.   DaDoughboy
221.
I may have a few..You looking for players for a mixed rec league?
2008-11-19 15:57:45
230.   cargill06
228 If we sign Garland when Stults can do the exact same thing, I may not be pleasent to deal with when I'm on DT for a few days.
2008-11-19 15:59:39
231.   Indiana Jon
Grover Cleveland Alexander pitched over 4700 (not sure exactly) consecutive innings without a balk. Like Mussina, he had one in his rookie year and then never again.
2008-11-19 16:00:20
232.   underdog
229 Yah, a co-ed league. This one is a pretty mellow rec-level league on Thurs nights in SF. I also play in a co-ed Sunday league that is more intermediate-advanced but we have enough ladies in that one. But a little experience would be good for the rec one, too. Can email me at underdog8 at gmail dot com if you think of someone. Cheers.

--

Okay, I'll bite -- only because I haven't followed him all that much, not disagreeing but why is Jon Garland so awful? His WHIP looks pretty bad for the past season, and he seems to give up too many home runs, but generally hasn't he been fairly consistently decent?

2008-11-19 16:01:09
233.   underdog
(And I agree, Stults would be just as capable it would seem so what's the point other than 'veteran-ness.' Just wondering if he's that terrible.)
2008-11-19 16:01:29
234.   Indiana Jon
227 That gave me a laugh.
2008-11-19 16:05:06
235.   underdog
I actually remember reading something on the 'net a couple of years ago that said Garland was basically the same pitcher as Joe Mays, only he's had more success, In other words, not someone to invest in. Maybe that's what it is.
2008-11-19 16:05:47
236.   Eric Stephen
228
I finally saw the ending of that Arizona-UAB game last night. Definitely one of the dumber combination of boners to end a game.
2008-11-19 16:07:53
237.   trainwreck
232
The last two years:

208.3 innings 57 BB 98 K's 19 HRs

196.7 innings 59 BB 90 K's 23 HRs

2008-11-19 16:08:49
238.   trainwreck
And 19 home runs was good for him.
2008-11-19 16:10:33
239.   Eric Stephen
I think Jon Garland is German for "Kirk Reuter."
2008-11-19 16:14:04
240.   Eric Stephen
Has Dodger Thoughts permeated the rest of the NL West? I went to the blog of Nick Piecoro, the D-Backs' beat writer for the Arizona Republic, and under his biography section, it says:

About Nick Piecoro
Who is Karim Garcia?

http://tinyurl.com/6x3kp7

2008-11-19 16:14:18
241.   underdog
237-239: Meh. That's all I can say. Either that or feh.

(Btw, did you know "Meh" is now in the dictionary and at least partially credited to the Simpsons?)

2008-11-19 16:14:28
242.   Bob Timmermann
231
I'm amazed that an epileptic could go that long without a balk.

I can make that joke as I have standing to do so.

2008-11-19 16:16:09
243.   Lexinthedena
I wouldn't be upset at a garland signing.

I would rather him for 10 mil a year, then Burnett for 17.

2008-11-19 16:18:10
244.   Eric Stephen
The Padres won't have Paul McAnulty to kick around anymore, as he has signed as a NRI with Boston.

http://tinyurl.com/6fceyr

2008-11-19 16:19:45
245.   underdog
244 His name always made me feel like he should be in "The Wire" instead.
2008-11-19 16:20:16
246.   Lexinthedena
I could see a Manny/Garland/Grudz offseason.
2008-11-19 16:25:26
247.   Dodgers49
Dodgers must understand you need a leading man in L.A.

>> Before the Dodgers decide whether to give Manny Ramirez whatever it will take to keep him in left field - and in vintage automobiles - they should know what they'd be paying for.

It's not just home run power, it's star power.

I used to think all the Dodgers needed to take the town's attention back from the Lakers was to win. That fluff about personalities and (ugh) entertainment was a distraction, a concern of the marketing department. How dare anyone suggest that just because we're in the capital of celebrity, L.A. fans want anything flashier than an efficient batting order, solid situational relief pitching, and a steadily productive pipeline of home-grown talent.

Then came the past 20 years. <<

http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_11019434

2008-11-19 16:29:35
248.   still bevens
225 There two Versailles. Maybe 3 if you include the fast food version in City Walk, which may no longer exist for all I know due to my ban on all things City Walk related. The Culver location is on Venice and Motor.
2008-11-19 16:29:56
249.   Ranma
After shooting down reports of talks with Hallady, interest in Ibanez, and an official offer for CC Sabathia at this point, Tony Jackson thinks signs are pointing towards a showdown between the Dodgers and Giants for Sabathia's services.

http://tinyurl.com/55frbc

Also, MLBtraderumors.com is citing reports that Mark Teahen is likely available from the Royals. I'm interested in him as a possibility at 3B with the Solution at 2B and either Furcal/Hu/DeJesus Jr. at SS. I'm also partial to the notion of Kerry Wood as our closer for 2-3 years with the aim of centering a Peavy offer around Broxton.

2008-11-19 16:30:20
250.   Eric Stephen
Grudzielanek's 1999 is at least in the vicinity of the greatest season ever by a LA Dodger SS.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/9VCT

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-11-19 16:32:58
251.   Eric Stephen
249
I'm also partial to the notion of Kerry Wood as our closer for 2-3 years with the aim of centering a Peavy offer around Broxton

Instead of the $20-25m on Peavy/Wood, why not spend that on CC, and keep Broxton, McDonald, etc (the ones that would have to be traded to get Peavy)?

2008-11-19 16:33:16
252.   still bevens
244 The chubby pride of Oxnard.
2008-11-19 16:34:19
253.   Bob Timmermann
248
Venice and Motor is not in Culver City though. It's Culver City adjacent.
2008-11-19 16:34:59
254.   Harold M Johnson
Jackson's logic is that because CC hasn't signed yet with the Yanks, means he's not going to. I don't understand that, because CC would still want to see what other offers come in before signing-- and his agent has every incentive to tell him to wait so that he can raise the Yankees price even more.
2008-11-19 16:35:45
255.   bhsportsguy
247 To be fair, the Lakers have combined winning NBA titles and Superstar players, while the Dodgers have pretty much done a good job holding onto their base.

And really, outside of the Yankees, Red Sox and Cardinals, its hard for a baseball player to capture any locale he plays in.

2008-11-19 16:37:01
256.   bhsportsguy
253 Its a John Daly drive from Culver City.
2008-11-19 16:40:23
257.   bhsportsguy
Will Carroll on the K-Boys LA Times podcast today, we learn that:

1. Bills needs to cut down the donuts,
2. Dodgers need to re-up Manny Ramirez

2008-11-19 16:41:31
258.   Bob Timmermann
256
Golf balls travel far on asphalt though.
2008-11-19 16:41:58
259.   trainwreck
257
Greg Hicks would not be happy with Billingsley's hips.
2008-11-19 16:45:06
260.   Tripon
Why does Will Carroll think Bills is fat.
2008-11-19 16:48:49
261.   Ranma
251 I haven't been a big believer in Jonathan Broxton. While I appreciate his power stuff, the development and consistency of his offspeed offerings have been wanting. I have more faith in Nathan Eovaldi developing as our closer or even Josh Lindblom (although he's now converted to a starter)...or whoever else the organization develops. Wood would buy more development time and, to a lesser extent, so would Corey Wade. Although that option might leave us room to pursue Valverde next offseason.

While a McCourt-owned Dodgers organization would likely not allow for it, it'd be incredible--and fairly plausible--to obtain both Sabathia and Peavy this offseason to form baseball's starting rotation and possibly best pitching staff. Like we can't assume a Peavy deal will be done, we also can't assume the same with CC, which leads me to encourage at least looking into the situation. The first that comes to fruition could serve us just as well with our other offseason dealings. A bird in the hand after all...

2008-11-19 16:48:51
262.   Lexinthedena
260 Well he ain't thin.

He is a white Bartolo Colon circa Cleveland.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/bartolo_colon_autograph.jpg

2008-11-19 16:49:07
263.   bhsportsguy
259 From what I have read, I am not sure if Greg Hicks is ever really happy.
2008-11-19 16:50:21
264.   regfairfield
Broxton had a more effective year in the majors than Lindblom had in A ball.
2008-11-19 16:50:27
265.   cargill06
243 :-0
2008-11-19 16:51:34
266.   Ranma
I meant to say Peavy and Sabathia would help us form baseball's BEST starting rotation obviously.
2008-11-19 16:53:35
267.   DaDoughboy
256.
I don't think Daly has his license anymore. May be a John Daly mosey or stumble.

Amazingly, Daly is listed on his site as 5'11"/220, while Bills is listed at 6'/240..

2008-11-19 16:53:35
268.   cargill06
Maybe I'm overrating him, but AJ Burnett in the NL west for 200+ innings is a top 15 pitcher in baseball (maybe top 10). Jon Garland is bottom 25% starting pitcher in baseball.
2008-11-19 16:54:01
269.   Tripon
262 But Bills isn't out of shape.
2008-11-19 16:54:46
270.   trainwreck
Wow, Shanahan gave so much praise to Asomugha during his press conference you would have thought he was his son.
2008-11-19 16:54:55
271.   Harold M Johnson
268 So AJ Burnett is maybe a top 10 pitcher, but Roy Halladay definitely isn't? I don't know about that.
2008-11-19 16:56:09
272.   trainwreck
Called him the most underrated player he has seen in his 25 years in the NFL.
2008-11-19 16:57:13
273.   Ranma
264 I'm actually not that high on Lindlbom either, but I used him primarily to illustrate that we have multiple options developing in the minor leagues albeit ones that are at least a few years away, hence the suggestion to go after Wood now or Valverde next year. Heck, why not look into Fuentes or the other FA closers abundantly available this Winter? I suggested Wood since I figured he'd be the most cost-effective, though I may end up being wrong.
2008-11-19 16:58:11
274.   cargill06
271 I no doubt have a man crush on Chad Billingsley, and Burnett does the same things Billingsley does so I think I may have a man crush on him. I love power pitchers who keep the ball in the park (what's not to love about that?). Halladay puts a lot of balls in play.
2008-11-19 16:58:57
275.   regfairfield
But with so many holes that need to be filled, why would you go with Wood or Valverde who aren't as good as Broxton anyway?
2008-11-19 16:59:54
276.   Tripon
I am of the opinion that using money to buy closers and relief men are foolish and unnecessary. The one good thing the Dodgers farm system is consistently good at is developing starting and relief pitching. If we don't need to sign Wood, or K-Rods, why should we create that hole with Broxton? At least for this year?
2008-11-19 17:00:15
277.   Indiana Jon
264 What do you mean by "effective"?
2008-11-19 17:01:43
278.   regfairfield
Admittedly I just glanced at the numbers, but Broxton had much better strikeout and home run rates.
2008-11-19 17:02:08
279.   Tripon
One thing I'm noticing is that nobody seemed to remember that Lowe was hovering around a 4.00 ERA into August. I know he pitched great since his horrible start against the Cards at St. Louis, but he wasn't Mr. Consistency this year, more like Mr. Mediocre, and then suddenly turning on the lights.
2008-11-19 17:05:46
280.   Jim Hitchcock
250 Yeah, I enjoyed '99. But '90, with the game winning HR by Alfredo Griffin, now that was something ;)
2008-11-19 17:08:23
281.   DBrim
279 - What happens when you take away his Coors starts?
2008-11-19 17:16:48
282.   Ranma
275 276 I generally agree with both your stances, but the aim of my proposal was to secure Sabathia and/or Peavy to help the Dodgers' current starting pitching with the small window the organization has with Joe Torre at the helm and before our young studs reach free agency. I figure taking a calculated risk with our bullpen is worth taking another (in terms of financial commitment) with our starting rotation given said window.

Also, while I like Chris Withrow and Ethan Martin enough, the SP prospects down at the farm is looking rather bare at the moment. As a side note, I hate going against Logan White's instincts since I like what he did with Loney, but I get a sense that Ethan Martin may be a better 3B prospect than a pitching one. I can't help but be discouraged with our lack of identifying and developing topnotch 3B talent thus far.

2008-11-19 17:33:47
283.   Tripon
Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp for Roy Halliday. Who blinks first and why?
2008-11-19 17:36:34
284.   CanuckDodger
282 -- What makes you think Martin is a better 3B prospect than a pitching prospect? I understand that the "Baseball Intellect" guy just said that HE prefers Martin as a position player, but that position is opposite to what everybody actually in the scouting industry said at the time of the draft, so Logan White and the Dodgers aren't going against the grain, they way they did in preferring Loney as a position player instead of a pitcher.
2008-11-19 17:36:46
285.   trainwreck
283
That would be incredibly stupid. We would average under a run a game.
2008-11-19 17:39:04
286.   Bob Timmermann
I would trade for Halladay, but not Halliday.

Matt Holliday has never faced Roy Halladay in the regular season.

The Ghost of Danny Kaye awaits!

2008-11-19 17:50:40
287.   cargill06
285 Don't think the "stupid" was called for. Someone may take personal offense to it, although I'm sure we all know it wasn't a personal attack.
2008-11-19 17:52:13
288.   trainwreck
287
That would be stupid for the Dodgers to do.
2008-11-19 17:53:42
289.   trainwreck
That be incredibly bad for Ned to do.
2008-11-19 17:56:23
290.   Marty
Looking at a map of Culver City makes you think everything in L.A. is Culver City adjacent.
2008-11-19 17:58:09
291.   Ranma
284 I'm not going to question your expertise on prospects, CanuckDodger, since you are obviously more learned in that area than I am, but I was under the impression that most scouts liked Martin better at the hot corner than on the mound. I say this while also acknowledging that White's choice with Martin was not as "against-the-grain" with the vast majority of opinion of Loney at the time.

Martin undoubtedly throws hard regardless if its from 3B or as a P and White obviously sees good projection of him as a starting pitcher, but from what I've read even previous to the "Baseball Intellect" pieces, Ethan was at least a solid fielding third baseman with a good approach at the plate and very good power potential. This coupled along with his status as a B prospect whereas Loney was an A prospect along with my aforementioned disappointment in developing premier 3B prospects and I just think, personally, that he would be a better third baseman than starting pitcher.

It's just my feelings and opinion from what I've gathered but I'd definitely appreciate it if you'd enlighten me to what you know so that I have a chance to re-consider my current thoughts on Ethan Marin.

2008-11-19 17:58:39
292.   trainwreck
I do not think the Dodgers are in a position to make any big trades. We just lack the depth to do it.

We already have a bunch of holes to fill.

2008-11-19 18:07:20
293.   arbfuldodger
283 With Vernon Wells, Alex Rios, Adam Lind & Travis Snider, I dont see the Blue Jays asking for 2 more OF's ...I can see them wanting 2 or 3 (McDonald, Elbert are givens) SP prospects + our best SS prospect (probably DeJesus but maybe Hu) and the maybe Lambo to finish the package off.

Now if "Doc" is worth that package I dont know but I cant see Toronto asking for any less and I couild see them asking for more.

2008-11-19 18:09:23
294.   scareduck
0 - I just realized this, but there is something very like the old Harry Belafonte duet going on with the Dodgers and third base:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_hole_in_the_bucket

209 - I usually manage to complete the Chicago Tribune Syndicate Saturday puzzles, and the Sylvia Burztyn (sp?) Sunday LA Times puzzles.

2008-11-19 18:14:00
295.   trainwreck
Wow, I just saw a commercial for high-fructose corn syrup.
2008-11-19 18:15:59
296.   Ranma
You may very well be right, trainwreck, given that the team is owned by Frank McCourt but I don't think we have as many holes holes in the field as Ned Colletti thinks. I like our internal options with the middle infield, ideally to be filled with Furcal but a pool drawing from DeWitt, Hu, DeJesus, Jr., and Abreu serviceable. If we don't get Manny back at a reasonable deal, we can make due with any of Pierre, Jones, Young, or Repko to go along with Kemp and Either in the hopes of securing Matt Holiday next offseason when more salary from the Schmidt and Jones signings come off the books.

Depending on who the Dodgers end up being able to sign this offseason will determine whether the team goes for it all again or should start rebuilding. With Ned's tenuous standing as GM, I would think he would be try to make a splash now. I just hope he does not make more misguided signings of overpriced PVL's where we end up treading water for some time even after his dismissal.

2008-11-19 18:19:26
297.   trainwreck
296
I would be shocked if Ned relied upon essentially a team of young guys.
2008-11-19 18:20:09
298.   trainwreck
We were young last year, but that would be really young.
2008-11-19 18:22:00
299.   mintxcore
290 that's why Culver City is awesome!
2008-11-19 18:23:33
300.   Tripon
high-fructose corn syrup was created by the Devil, and Iowans to replace sugar.

I SAY NAY, AND DEMAND A RETURN TO REAL SUGAR.

Seriously, it takes better.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-11-19 18:26:21
301.   Ranma
So I guess it would help to bring in a star veteran or two of the Manny-CC-Furcal variety to help with our young charges a la Tampa Bay? ;-)

Assuming that's a reasonable conclusion, one can only hope Ned and Frank are reasonable people.

2008-11-19 18:27:33
302.   68elcamino427
At this point I would be shocked if Ned is anything more than a figurehead - he is positioned perfectly as McCourt's foil.

How much is Mr. Torre being paid?

2008-11-19 18:28:43
303.   D4P
How much is Mr. Torre being paid?

Rule 3 violation!

2008-11-19 18:28:44
304.   trainwreck
300
Yeah, totally. Why did we get no say in this?
2008-11-19 18:28:49
305.   Ranma
Come to think of it, I don't think the Tampa Bay Rays had any "star" veterans so I guess my point is invalid, but then again, they did end up losing the World Series.
2008-11-19 18:29:03
306.   trainwreck
Moser is a Bruin! Moser is a Bruin!!
2008-11-19 18:29:33
307.   bhsportsguy
304 Moser is apparently is signing with UCLA.
2008-11-19 18:31:51
308.   D4P
Moser is a Bruin!

Does someone have to be alive to you before they can be dead to you?

2008-11-19 18:32:26
309.   Tripon
300 Taste, not takes.
2008-11-19 18:33:45
310.   trainwreck
308
I believe so.
2008-11-19 18:34:46
311.   El Lay Dave
304 Trying to stay on the correct side of rule 5 here....

Write your representatives in Washington and demand a lower sugar tariff and a lower subsidy on corn. You probably have to suggest what (mostly midwest) farmers would have to grow instead to make money....

2008-11-19 18:35:38
312.   trainwreck
311
I know what they can grow...
2008-11-19 18:36:40
313.   D4P
The documentary "King Corn" provides some nice insights into high fructose corn syrup, among other things.

The bottom line is that the US produces (and consumes) way too much corn. We especially feed way too much corn to cattle.

2008-11-19 18:38:26
314.   El Lay Dave
312 Neil Young recommends that that be a do-it-yourself project.
2008-11-19 18:41:02
315.   D4P
312
Speaking of which: we're on our second time through "Weeds". I liked it the first time through, and I think I'm actually liking it even better the second.
2008-11-19 18:42:53
316.   scareduck
300 - visit BevMo. You can find a plethora of honest-to-diabetes sugar-sweetened soft drinks there.
2008-11-19 18:45:29
317.   Tripon
http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jacksco01.shtml

If you're the D'Backs, are you concerned about Conor Jackson, and his apparent reach of his peak ability?

316 Hmm, will do when I have a chance.

2008-11-19 18:45:58
318.   D4P
For the most part, Whole Foods doesn't carry products with high fructose corn syrup, though there are a few exceptions.
2008-11-19 18:46:34
319.   bigcpa
The Carlos Santana day of reckoning has come... #1 prospect in the Indians system per Baseball America.
2008-11-19 18:48:07
320.   regfairfield
317 Yep. All you can do is hope his defense in left this year wasn't a fluke because a mediocre hitter for a corner guy with no glove is a pretty terrible player.
2008-11-19 18:48:53
321.   trainwreck
315
I have only seen the second season so far (that was when I had Showtime). That show is on my list with Mad Men.
2008-11-19 18:49:27
322.   68elcamino427
311
Aren't we neglecting the lobbyists for diabetic medications here?

What will Mr. Brimsley have to say about this?

2008-11-19 18:50:37
323.   Gen3Blue
319 Ain't it a bitch.
2008-11-19 18:51:23
324.   D4P
Players who out-homered Conor Jackson in August and September last year include:

Juan Pierre

2008-11-19 18:56:00
325.   Tripon
That Juan Pierre home run was still shocking.
2008-11-19 18:58:24
326.   mintxcore
316 How about some love for Galco's? Anywhere Huell Howser visits is awesome.
2008-11-19 18:59:14
327.   CanuckDodger
291 -- After the Dodgers drafted Martin in June, Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus said that Martin is a first-round talent as a pitcher and a second or third-round talent as a hitter. He also said one MLB official he talked to about Martin mentioned him in the same breath as Nolan Ryan. Baseball America's take on Martin was much the same.
2008-11-19 18:59:59
328.   bhsportsguy
319 And LaPorta was No. 2. The Dodgers and Brewers both got to the playoffs. I don't hear Brewer fans complaining about that deal.

Are the two deals comparable, no, but a big reason that Santana is rated above LaPorta is his age (a year younger) and position. But going into 2008, there is no question who was the higher graded prospect.

2008-11-19 19:00:37
329.   Bob Timmermann
299
The city plan of Culver City is on my obelisk. I have never gone anywhere in Culver City and not gotten lost on the way.
2008-11-19 19:00:55
330.   bhsportsguy
327 Yep, I emailed (actually IMed) Goldstein and told him that the Dodgers had announced him as a pitcher and he said that made more sense.
2008-11-19 19:01:18
331.   regfairfield
328 Because they got CC Sabathia who was probably the second best deadline acquisition of all time. We got Casey Blake.
2008-11-19 19:03:21
332.   bhsportsguy
329 I always use Yogi's advice when driving in Culver City, when you get to a fork in the road, take it.
2008-11-19 19:03:42
333.   PDH5204
268 Good luck with the 200 IP. 3x in 10 seasons. There's a reason why some in Toronto hope that he doesn't come back overpaid. Especially when he'll want a 4-5 year deal. He's 32 now. If he didn't make 200 IP but 3x, why would we expect him to have better luck now?

I otherwise "love" this report on AJ:

"When he's on, though, he's nearly unhittable. Even with his ERA north of 4.00 this season (though just barely), he's still struck out 231 in 221 innings, walking 86 in that time. His 19 home runs is quite low, too."

Seduced by the low HRs and high K totals, he's called "nearly unhittable" when "on". Left unstated is how much "on" of the "nearly unhittable" variety there is, what with the season ERA over 4.00.

The NL West thing might not be much consolation either, given that AJ last year was 1.64 against the Yanks, 2.60 against the RSox, and 3.15 against the Rays. So some others fairly lit him up to push the ERA over 4.00. In other words, if I want a guy who will pitch lights out against the heavies but tank against the lighties, Oliver Perez would likely be cheaper.

I'd settle for:

Kuroda, Billingsley, Kershaw, Perez, and McDonald.

Then maybe we could have:

C-Martin
1B-Loney
2B-Hudson
SS-Furcal
3B-DeWitt
LF-Manny
CF-Kemp
RF-Dunn

I'll let you come up with who we get back in a trade of Ethier, though I would suggest that you sell the Rays on Ethier as their sought after RF and look to acquire EJax and one of Davis/Hellickson/Niemann. If you make the trade, then scratch Perez and sub in EJax or one of Davis/Hellickson/Niemann.

2008-11-19 19:03:52
334.   Bob Timmermann
The restraint shown about the Jim Tracy news is remarkable.
2008-11-19 19:12:48
335.   Tripon
331 The proposed C.C. trade from the Dodgers could have cost the Dodgers at least Santana, Kemp, McDonald and Elbert.

We would have gotten screwed either way.

2008-11-19 19:14:36
336.   El Lay Dave
334 Tony Jackson is happy about it. I imagine if Tony contacted Tracy directly, it went like this:

Tony Jackson: Jim, are you accepting the bench coach position with Colorado?

Jim Tracy: Is it the case that I will be the bench coach of the Colorado Rockies of Denver? It is possible that the Rockies have an opening and might be interested in extending an offer to me, but at this time nothing official in nature has occurred and I am not, at this time, officially an employee of the Colorado Rockies in the bench coach capacity, nor in any other on-field or off-field role.

2008-11-19 19:16:13
337.   Ranma
327 330 Interesting. I was following the draft the same day through MLB.com and reading reports from MiLB.com and some draft profiles from a Brewers fan page and they all seem to indicate the opposite, if I recall correctly. Thanks, fellas. If E. Martin lives up to that billing as being in the same area code of Nolan Ryan then my initial impression was totally off-base.
2008-11-19 19:18:32
338.   Tripon
I think a Jim Tracy led Rockies team would be net win of two wins for the Dodgers.
2008-11-19 19:24:03
339.   bhsportsguy
337 From the Baseball Prospectus Draft Day Roundtable. And my name is not Chris.

Kevin Goldstein (1:32:17 PM PT): Chris from LA writes to let us know that the Dodgers are listing Ethan Martin as a RHP. So there you go. That makes WAY more sense now, and fits in well with the Dodgers way of doing things.

2008-11-19 19:26:21
340.   Ranma
339 Cool. Thanks again, bhsportsguy.
2008-11-19 19:31:33
341.   Tripon
When was the last time we drafted a position player in the first round? Preston Mattingly?
2008-11-19 19:36:19
342.   Bob Timmermann
And there is no joy in Mount Pleasant tonight. But they're overjoyed in Muncie!
2008-11-19 19:37:08
343.   bhsportsguy
341 Mattingly was drafted in the 2006 1st Supplemental Round, Kershaw and Morris were drafted in tne first round.

The answer to your question was playing 2B at the end of the season, Blake DeWitt, drafted in the 2004 1st Round.

White's 1st Round Picks
2002 - James Loney, 1B
2003 - Chad Billingsley, RHP
2004 - Scott Elbert, LHP, Blake DeWitt, 3B
2005 - No 1st Round pick
2006 - Clayton Kershaw, LHP, Bryan Morris, RHP
2007 - Chris Withrow, RHP
2008 - Ethan Martin, RHP

2008-11-19 19:37:14
344.   Sam DC
A Top Chef taster:

Judge 1: "It tastes like, like . . . like . . . glue."

Judge 2: "Yes!"

2008-11-19 19:40:03
345.   Tripon
344 Let me guess.... Padma as Judge 1, and the Guest judge as Judge 2?
2008-11-19 19:41:49
346.   underdog
Jayson Stark was just on ESPN radio talking about free agents, when asked about CC Sabathia he said, while he didn't think the Dodgers had made an offer yet, he felt they would and would have the inside track on him because he seems to want to play there. Both CC and LA are trying not to reveal all the cards in their hand, and he said the Dodgers can't go as high or as long as the Yankees, but if they get close enough, he felt CC would go there. Really, it's nothing earth shattering. He also said that while the Dodgers are juggling a lot of balls in the air and have holes to fill, their contract flexibility from all the departing FA's and further budget flexibility after this next season means they can still go for 1-2 big FA's this off season. All according to Stark.
2008-11-19 19:42:30
347.   Sam DC
345 I think guest judge (Donatella Arsomething) was Judge 1 and Gail Collins was 2. Not 100% though, wasn't looking at the screen until the end.

And if you watch, make sure and stick around until Padma tries the Martini dessert . . . .

2008-11-19 19:46:33
348.   trainwreck
324
UFC may have released Jon Fitch over a video game. You have got to be kidding me.
2008-11-19 19:48:32
349.   Marty
326 Galco's is amazing. If anyone finds themselves on York Blvd. in Eagle Rock stop in. If you want to remember how Coke used to taste, pick up some Mexican Coke there.
2008-11-19 19:54:04
350.   Sam DC
349 A few more comments like that and I won't be able to get into this website from work.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-11-19 19:54:25
351.   Tripon
I find it amusing that Mexico can have real coke with sugar, and us Americans are stuck with the crappy version.
2008-11-19 19:56:06
352.   bhsportsguy
349 I am not sure the phrase "pick up some Mexican Coke" has ever been typed on DT before.

Maybe some other messageboards...

2008-11-19 19:56:34
353.   Eric Stephen
Would anyone have made as good a big man's camp if things turned out differently?

Pete Newell, a reluctant child actor long before he was a Hall of Fame coach, appeared in several "Our Gang" movie comedies and was seriously considered for a star-making role opposite CharlieChaplin in "The Kid" in 1920

http://tinyurl.com/6fpo5w

2008-11-19 19:59:20
354.   LogikReader
351

Amazing! For years I've wanted to know what made Coke in Mexico taste so different from the Coke here in the USA.

I always thought it tasted odd, the Mexican coke. Yet, this is how it tasted way back in the 40s and 50s? Truly remarkable.

And all this time I thought it was the water...

2008-11-19 19:59:21
355.   Marty
Nobody buys the other coke for the taste.
2008-11-19 19:59:26
356.   Tripon
Were they ever really in the race? Mathematically only, as it turned out. They certainly weren't in the division race. They lagged 11 games behind the Cubs before the end of August.

This is a dumb argument, if the Cards could have picked their division, they would have raised their hands and picked to go to the NL East. Discrediting Albert Pujols just because the Cards wasn't a good team in 2008 is a straw's man argument. Albert Pujols did not create that roster.

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=313

2008-11-19 20:01:13
357.   trainwreck
355
Actually, there are fruit flavors now.

I kid you not.

2008-11-19 20:01:14
358.   Marty
354 I don't think it was until the 80's when they stopped using sugar.
2008-11-19 20:02:12
359.   Marty
357 Does it come in long tubes and do they call them Pixie Stix?
2008-11-19 20:02:30
360.   Eric Stephen
I read that Mike Mussina is the first pitcher to have 20 wins in his final season since Koufax retired in 1966.

I looked it up, and it appears before Mussina there were only 4 such pitchers: two Dodgers and two members of the Black Sox.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/utBa

2008-11-19 20:02:33
361.   bhsportsguy
356 Until a professional sport defines what an MVP means, the criteria is in the mind of each voter.
2008-11-19 20:02:51
362.   underdog
Watching the US-Guatemala World Cup Prelim game on ESPN (and I don't know what happened if it was played earlier so don't say anything) but I'm amazed by how empty the stadium in Guatemala is. More than half empty at least.

US is dominating them completely in possession and chances but still scoreless in the 1st. Altidore looks really good, and has been fouled hard several times.

2008-11-19 20:03:00
363.   ChicagoDodger
346 All of that makes sense of course, but no one really knows. It's pretty much conventional wisdom that no other team will bid $140 million for CC, so it seems rather odd that he has not signed with the Yankees yet, if in fact he will end up signing there.

I mean, what could he be waiting for? The Dodgers surely won't bid $140 million, and if they bid the reported $110 or $120 million, then he (CC) was never going to sign with the Yankees anyway.

Does Manny become this years version of Andruw Jones in that he waits and waits, and finally settles for a 2 year deal since no team is/was ever willing to offer more then 2 years?

2008-11-19 20:03:35
364.   underdog
Mussina also had, what, 11 15-win seasons? Pretty impressive. Borderline Hall of Famer but will he get in?
2008-11-19 20:05:03
365.   Bob Timmermann
362
That's apparently Guatemala disguised as a suburb of Denver.
2008-11-19 20:05:37
366.   LogikReader
358

Also fascinating! I wasn't allowed to drink soda until 1989.

2008-11-19 20:06:59
367.   trainwreck
359
It is made by Willy Wonka and that guy has got to be on something.
2008-11-19 20:07:51
368.   Tripon
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=MLB

A bunch of teams are adding their prospects to the 40 man rosters. The Dodgers haven't done so yet.

2008-11-19 20:08:54
369.   trainwreck
359
Here is an article about a bust on it.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287175,00.html

2008-11-19 20:09:13
370.   Marty
You youngsters may not know what a pixie stix was. It was basically cherry flavored sugar and came in thin little tubes. At little league we used to buy those and red licorice. Then you bite the end off of the licorice and pour the pixie stix inside. Then eat and enjoy. I think a dentist taught me that.
2008-11-19 20:10:36
371.   Eric Stephen
368
Tomorrow is the deadline to set rosters for the Rule 5 draft.
2008-11-19 20:11:21
372.   trainwreck
370
My friend snorted a Pixie Stick in middle school. It just clogged his nostrils.
2008-11-19 20:13:17
373.   mintxcore
370 I remember finding GIANT pixie stix at a toy store back in the early nineties. It was about a foot long and in this weird plastic tube. almost killed me. 3 for a dollar.
2008-11-19 20:14:02
374.   Tripon
http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/2008/11/a-good-move-for.html#comments

Tony Jackson replies to El Lay Dave.

2008-11-19 20:19:41
375.   mintxcore
373
http://tinyurl.com/6qv4o2
2008-11-19 20:19:42
376.   Eric Stephen
374
That's great.
2008-11-19 20:20:51
377.   underdog
365 Yeah, when did Denver get annexed?

Okay, I misheard the ESPN announcers when first tuning in, my mistake. I soon noticed a suspicious number of Americans in the crowd, and English signs around the arena. Still, surprisingly sparse crowd. Important game -- for Guatemala. I guess that would explain it.

2008-11-19 20:21:32
378.   underdog
Where do people stand on all-syrup Squishies? Has such a thing ever be done? I prefer those with real sugar, no corn syrup.
2008-11-19 20:23:45
379.   bhsportsguy
378 No quoting of misc. Simpsons episodes unless you are prepared to face Jon's wraith.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

2008-11-19 20:25:13
380.   trainwreck
378
Slurpies no longer have regular flavors. It is all based off some soda or drink. I just want plain strawberry, dagnabbit!
2008-11-19 20:25:35
381.   Eric Stephen
378
I thought Slurpee™ had reached the level of Kleenex® and Coke© in that it could be used as the generic term for all-syrup squishies. But then I remembered the infrequent trips to Circle K and the world of Icees™.
2008-11-19 20:26:12
382.   Bob Timmermann
377
I doubt ESPN would have sent a crew to Guatemala for a qualifier after the US had already moved on.

I would assume Dellacamera and Harkes would just have called the game off the monitor in Bristol.

2008-11-19 20:26:58
383.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Coke has a copyright.
2008-11-19 20:27:21
384.   Tripon
My family donut shop still sells Cherry and Raspberry slush puppies, and occasionally mixes in some lemon lime.

Considering how much we sell in volume, I was surprised that no other store around us sells slush puppies.

2008-11-19 20:34:56
385.   Eric Stephen
383
Bob, you assume my use of symbols has order and reason!

-Ë®î©

2008-11-19 20:38:13
386.   trainwreck
384
Ooo, a donut shop. I have not had a donut in a long time. I miss eating donuts.
2008-11-19 20:46:55
387.   underdog
382 Look, I was suffering from protein deficiency at that moment. Now that I've eaten dinner all these things seem so obvious to me now.

--
Speaking of which, I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers Slush Puppies. I thought those were from AM/PM Mini Marts when I was a kid, liked them much more than Slurpees, but then for awhile no one seemed to know what I was talking about and I started to wonder if I just dreamed the whole thing.

2008-11-19 20:47:43
388.   underdog
387 - one "now." Maybe I need a Coke Slurpee.
2008-11-19 20:49:13
389.   Tripon
387 Slush Puppies still exist. At least I hope so, because we're still selling them. Or we'll selling an incredibly authentic looking bootleg version of them.
2008-11-19 20:50:53
390.   bhsportsguy
383 "Coca-Cola" is a registered trademark of The Coca-Cola Company. "Coke" was also registered as a trademark of the Coca-Cola Company in 1945.

Cola is the generic name of that type of carbonated beverage.

While "Coke" is a registered trademark of Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola has had a difficult time policing their intellectual property. In fact, if you are at a restaurant and ask for a "Coke" or "Diet Coke", the waitstaff is supposed to tell you that don't serve those products by saying something like "We don't have Coke but we have Pepsi, is that all right?

2008-11-19 20:54:47
391.   underdog
389 Darnit, where's that donut shop of yours?! I've been looking for a place with Slush Puppies for ages.
2008-11-19 20:55:01
392.   Bob Timmermann
The Coke and Pepsi and Soda situation is not something that you discuss here with the propietor.
2008-11-19 20:57:02
393.   bhsportsguy
392 Fine by me.

From LA Observed.

Retired former Dodger Mike Piazza will write his autobiography, "discussing everything from the 2000 World Series incident when Roger Clemens threw a shattered bat at Piazza, and the press conference he held to deny rumors that he was gay to his tumultuous relationships with the Los Angeles Dodgers."

Nate Silver, founder of FiveThirtyEight.com, sold books to Penguin described as "a Freakonomics-style guide to the mechanics of electoral politics" and on the art of prediction.

2008-11-19 20:59:14
394.   fanerman
Mexican Coke is available at Costco. At least the one I got to.
2008-11-19 20:59:53
395.   Bob Timmermann
393
Remember, I'm the sergeant at arms.
2008-11-19 21:00:17
396.   underdog
Man, Jozy Altidore is going to be so good. He's already good. I can't believe he's only 19.

Sigh, gotta get back to work.

2008-11-19 21:00:22
397.   Tripon
391 Corner of Carson, and Denker in Torrance. A couple of blocks away from the UCLA Harbor Medical Hospital.

1500 Carson St. Torrance CA, 90501

2008-11-19 21:00:54
398.   Tripon
Also, it is called Circus Donuts. Come by on Fridays afternoon, or Sat, or Sun morning. I'm usually working then.
2008-11-19 21:10:02
399.   bhsportsguy
397 There's an In N Out down the road and a pretty good place to get sushi nearby too.
2008-11-19 21:11:34
400.   trainwreck
My mouth is drooling at the thought of donuts and In N Out.

I also really like sushi, but I do not think it goes as well with donuts.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-11-19 21:12:14
401.   underdog
397 Do you ship to San Francisco? :-)

Just toss some extra ice in the FedEx box.

2008-11-19 21:13:47
402.   bhsportsguy
399 When you come down for a game, I'll personally drive you there, maybe Greg Brock can meet us and we can all talk about what might have been aka the Ben Olson years.
2008-11-19 21:14:42
403.   bhsportsguy
397 Wait a minute, is there a Starbucks nearby, I can almost picture that store.
2008-11-19 21:16:10
404.   Bob Timmermann
Ben Olson is the best evidence in the world that Daniel Zappala was correct in converting from the RCC to the LDS.

Olson angered more than just the Football Gods.

2008-11-19 21:17:05
405.   Bob Timmermann
403
There are a couple Starbucks on Carson, but not one near Circus Donuts.

Unless you are using a different definition of "near."

2008-11-19 21:19:16
406.   Eric Stephen
402
bhsportsguy is in fact Tyler Durden.
2008-11-19 21:21:59
407.   Tripon
403 405 Nearest Starbucks I can think of is the one in the Del Amo mall. And that's at least 3 miles away.

Circus Donuts is near a Japanese mall though.

Somebody took an image of the shop a while back. Due to a storm, the man has lost one of his hands, and we don't feel the need to replace it. He had that hand since the 50's too.

http://www.roadsidepeek.com/roadusa/southwest/california/socal/socaleats/socalsnacks/circusdonuts2.jpg

2008-11-19 21:22:17
408.   Tripon
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1147/1283124938_9ed64a3c19.jpg?v=0

Here's another image.

2008-11-19 21:23:45
409.   bhsportsguy
407 Yep. Never stopped in. The Japanese mall (Mitsuwa) I am/was very familiar with for a while.
2008-11-19 21:23:59
410.   trainwreck
Ben Olson is being punished for being a ranga.

My first Summer Heights High quote!

2008-11-19 21:25:41
411.   mintxcore
408 you're killing me! im gonna need to stop by after class sometime. how late is it open?
2008-11-19 21:27:35
412.   Marty
Man, I've driven by that donut shop a hundred times. But I never stopped in. I rarely eat donuts.
2008-11-19 21:30:59
413.   Tripon
411 Usually to 10PM. We usually open by 5AM.
2008-11-19 21:31:59
414.   trainwreck
407 408
Woah, that is a big donut shop.
2008-11-19 21:32:28
415.   Marty
Next time I go to my sister's house in Torrance, I'll pick up a dozen.
2008-11-19 21:36:50
416.   Tripon
414 Yeah it is. Our operational costs (utilities, rent and such) are usually twice that of other shops due to the size of the shop. Well, at least we have a big parking lot to go with it.
2008-11-19 21:37:01
417.   trainwreck
And now UCLA gets a good football commitment.

What a great day!!

2008-11-19 21:37:34
418.   mintxcore
my dad's pizza place in SB used to have a donut shop next door. they used to swap pizza for donuts. nothing better than having fresh donuts for breakfast and pizza for lunch. every saturday.
2008-11-19 21:38:38
419.   Marty
So, is it just donuts and coffee? Do you sell a lot of donuts? I've always wondered what kind of business that is.
2008-11-19 21:41:05
420.   trainwreck
418
Which pizza place?
2008-11-19 21:43:15
421.   mintxcore
420 Deano's Pizzarama. It's on the Mesa.
2008-11-19 21:43:16
422.   Tripon
419 Donuts, coffee, lottery, drinks(soda, energy drinks), sandwiches, simple pastries, cigarettes and other stuff we think can sell money.

The lottery brings in a lot of foot traffic. I'd push to sell alcohol, but getting a license to sell alcohol is not worth the hassle, and the added scrutiny it would bring from the local food and health board.

2008-11-19 21:46:50
423.   trainwreck
421
I remember seeing that place, but never checked it out. We were always lazy and just got Woodstock's.

I will try to check it out next time I am down there.

2008-11-19 21:47:33
424.   Dodgers49
363 I mean, what could he be waiting for? The Dodgers surely won't bid $140 million, and if they bid the reported $110 or $120 million, then he (CC) was never going to sign with the Yankees anyway.

But the Yankees seem to be signaling that if anyone comes within $30 million of their bid they are prepared to raise it. So what's at stake is just how much CC will be willing to leave on the table to play in California. There is no reason for him not to wait this out and see who else will jump in and just how high the Yankees will go.

2008-11-19 21:50:33
425.   mintxcore
423 rad! its been ages since ive had a chance to go there... its definitely a "different" type of pizza. I think I remember seeing Ryan Spilborghs there back when we were in junior high! hahaha
2008-11-19 21:51:56
426.   mintxcore
423 Woodstocks' cinnamon pizza is pretty great, btw.
2008-11-19 22:08:59
427.   Dodgers49
CC won't decide on Yanks 'till after Thanksgiving

11:02 PM EST, November 19, 2008

>> The Yankees are content to let CC Sabathia take his time on his big decision, and Sabathia will do just that. As first reported by ESPN's Peter Gammons, Sabathia doesn't intend to decide on his next team until after the Thanksgiving weekend.

But for Sabathia, who is well known to prefer both the West Coast and the National League, alternatives to the Yankees' six-year offer (for about $140 million) don't appear to be materializing.

Although the Dodgers have some interest in Sabathia, they are not optimistic they can put together a package large enough to land the lefthander, a person familiar with their thinking said. The Dodgers "can't afford him," the person said. <<

http://tinyurl.com/5lh9f8

2008-11-19 22:10:27
428.   LogikReader
423 , 426

I was just at Dean-o's last Saturday. Ahhh their pizza is still so good. I just ordered a slice. It's really cool to know your Dad is the owner, mint.

Deano's is still next to a Foster's freeze... and a Taco Bell... and a McDonald's... and a Starbucks.

---

Woodstock's is walking distance from my workplace. Now Woodstock's offers NFL Sunday Ticket. Imagine: Pizza, Hot Wings, and the Buffalo Bills, or Green Bay Packers, or any team on the schedule. Heaven!

2008-11-19 22:12:31
429.   underdog
421 Oh my lord, Deano's! I used to go there when I was in HS. My mom's lived on the Mesa since then. That little strip mall's been upgraded recently but some of the old reliables are still there, including Foster's Freeze. And Rose's Mexican food, which is only open randomly it seems, across the street. But with Lazy Acres and the good coffee place across from it we hardly ever go across to the old shopping center.
2008-11-19 22:13:57
430.   mintxcore
428 He's actually not the owner, but he's the main manager and has been there for like 20 years or something haha.

The Mesa Center is changing a lot but I'm glad places like Deano's and Super Cucas can hang in there!

2008-11-19 22:14:09
431.   underdog
427 The Dodgers should go 5 year/100 million for CC and see if he will do it to play in Cal/LA.
2008-11-19 22:14:44
432.   trainwreck
428
Everytime it rains, we got Woodstock's delivered.

Hehe.

2008-11-19 22:15:43
433.   trainwreck
430
Every day I wish I could have Super Cucas nachos.
2008-11-19 22:16:29
434.   trainwreck
Honestly, I think I miss those nachos more than anything in SB.
2008-11-19 22:21:01
435.   Tripon
431 If C.C. takes the Dodgers 5 year/$100 million offer, while spurring the Brewers 5 years/$100 offer, then his image will always hang in effigy in Milwaukee.
2008-11-19 22:23:13
436.   mintxcore
434 man, I haven't had their nachos for a long time. I love, love, love their carnita tortas. MMMM
2008-11-19 22:30:58
437.   DaDoughboy
433/436.
You guy know if the Mesa Cafe is still up there? Best eggs benedict and bloody marys ever..
2008-11-19 22:31:20
438.   Tripon
Braves are back in the Peavy sweepstakes. Just let this whole thing end already.

Yunel Escobar is in the proposed deal, and outfielder Gorkys Hernandez will be, along with a pitcher, probably Jo-Jo Reyes, plus minor league pitchers. So the Braves stand to make a deal for the 2007 Cy Young Award winner without surrendering: (A) their top pitching prospect, Tommy Hanson; (B) their top outfield prospect, Jason Heyward; (C) The player who is thought by some scouts to be their second-best outfield prospect, Jordan Schaefer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3712344&name=olney_buster

2008-11-19 22:35:40
439.   DaDoughboy
Does anyone else find it funny that there's a Circuit City 'take my tv' add up?

I mean, literally, you can take it. Leave whatever change or lint you have in your pockets for Circuit City. Please..take it.

2008-11-19 22:49:25
440.   underdog
I can't believe the Padres would do that deal without asking for at least one of Heyward, Hanson or Schaefer. Stupid Padres, but I guess that would work out okay for the Dodgers.
2008-11-19 22:49:45
441.   LogikReader
Yep. Mesa Cafe is still around!

http://santabarbara.com/dining/review_read.asp?pk_restaurant=725

How are the breakfasts out there?

2008-11-19 22:50:42
442.   underdog
Man, you guys managed to make me both hungry and homesick all in one fell swoop. {cry}
2008-11-19 22:55:19
443.   DaDoughboy
442.
Well, if you're in SF, then you're definitely not hurting for any good places to eat.
I was just recently up there a few weeks ago and went to a place off Union and the Presidio called Liverpool Lils (sp?). Saw Dave Roberts there..
2008-11-19 23:02:07
444.   fanerman
442 Ah, don't cry. Just think of our number one prospect, Carlos Sa--oh, nevermind..
2008-11-19 23:07:48
445.   Icaros
443

I've gone there after bowling a couple times.

2008-11-19 23:12:32
446.   KG16
Fox 11, Springfield Isotopes episode, right now.
2008-11-19 23:19:43
447.   trainwreck
I want to be a guest judge on Top Chef or Iron Chef America.

I have no qualifications, which makes me perfect.

2008-11-20 02:01:08
448.   Tripon
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/11/joe-torre-on-th.html

Joe Torre doing an interview with the Times.

2008-11-20 02:25:20
449.   Louis in SF
448
Read that interview as well and just keep asking myself the question if both the Dodgers and Furcal want to do business why there hasn't been more movement from either the Dodgers or anyone else. Am also concerned that by just doing nothing the Dodgers end up in the worst of all worlds not getting a good but perhaps overpriced free agent Manny or CC, but also lose out on Furcal?
2008-11-20 02:32:23
450.   trainwreck
448
I like the Mattingly working with Loney idea. Nothing to complain about with that interview.

449
I have honestly not been expecting us to make a big splash in free agency this year. Sheets is my biggest hope, which would be a very nice pick up for us, but Ned is probably too worried.

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-11-20 04:17:09
451.   D4P
Nothing to complain about with that interview

Then I won't bother reading it.

2008-11-20 05:21:25
452.   TrueBlueOz
Without Cucas my life would have been very different at UNI.
After a surf I would always get a chicken burrito. It was my lunch and dinner. Thinking of Cucas really makes miss Mexican food. It is the one style of food that Australia just does not have, or I should say does very poorly.
2008-11-20 06:06:26
453.   Ken Noe
The Reds admit that they really wanted to get Coco Crisp. I know where they can find someone similar.

http://tinyurl.com/6cnp45

2008-11-20 07:38:32
454.   oshea2002
I personally am growing tired of hearing "the Dodgers can't afford X."
2008-11-20 07:42:59
455.   Bob Timmermann
X is getting back together?
2008-11-20 07:50:22
456.   Marty
X is back together. And it's a little sad.
2008-11-20 07:52:59
457.   scareduck
456 - aren't all reunion tours?
2008-11-20 08:28:34
458.   Eric Stephen
The lefty reliever bonanza continues today as Trever Miller has signed with the Cardinals.

http://tinyurl.com/6bk9p4

No word yet on the contract details, but I'm sure agent Joe Sroba will be updating the "Comps" section of the glossy notebook.

2008-11-20 08:28:49
459.   ToyCannon
453
Coco Crisp is not very similar to Juan Pierre. They run fast, that is about it. In 2007 Coco was the best defensive CF in baseball, and has always had gap power until he hurt his wrist which hampered the power for a while.
2008-11-20 08:30:25
460.   ToyCannon
Bhsportsguy I'm way behind on your comment but comparing LaPorta getting traded for CC, and Carlos Santana being traded for Casey Blake to save two million dollars is about as different as the USC and UCLA football programs.
2008-11-20 08:44:15
461.   Eric Stephen
460
I'm tipping my cap to you, sir, because you just as easily could have compared the UCLA and USC basketball programs. :)
2008-11-20 08:45:00
462.   Eric Stephen
458
That meant to say "Beimel's glossy notebook."
2008-11-20 08:50:29
463.   Bob Timmermann
462
Joe Beimel's notebook!

How do you do?

2008-11-20 08:56:05
464.   underdog
458 And Tampa gets a sandwich pick for losing Miller. That just seems... goofy.
2008-11-20 08:58:17
465.   LogikReader
457

The Rolling Stones have been on a reunion tour for 25 years.

2008-11-20 08:59:23
466.   D4P
I think I was sick the day the "How do you do?" joke was born.

Is it funny?

2008-11-20 09:04:35
467.   Bob Timmermann
We need to remember that it's "Old Friend" Trever Miller.
2008-11-20 09:08:52
468.   underdog
467 Meh.

--

Torre focused on Furcal

>>Even though he missed five months with back surgery, Furcal is the lynchpin of the club's infield plans and apparently the Dogders (sic) are holding off on other moves until they know whether or not he'll return.>Torre again stressed the importance of acquiring a pitcher for the top of his rotation with the departure of Derek Lowe and Brad Penny. He praised CC Sabathia without indicating how hard the Dodgers would pursue him and was equally non-committal on interest in signing Randy Johnson.<<

http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/11/torre_focused_on_furcal.html

2008-11-20 09:11:01
469.   underdog
Anatomy of a rumor:

Here's how it starts.

On MLBTR: "SI.com's Jon Heyman talked to Peavy's agent, Barry Axelrod. Peavy hasn't revised his original list of five teams, but Axelrod says the NL West would interest Peavy (aside from the Rockies). So, maybe Giants fans have something new to speculate about. Axelrod says the list was only guidance for Towers."

From there it'll be, "Giants after Jake Peavy." Until the Braves end up with him.

2008-11-20 09:11:43
470.   DaDoughboy
even the Cubs deadline for a sale may be affected by tightening economy:

"Given the current financial climate and the difficulty in raising capital, there has been widespread speculation that bidders are having trouble raising money for a purchase of the famously unsuccessful franchise, which hasn't won the World Series in a century."

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=31895

2008-11-20 09:11:56
471.   D4P
Furcal is the lynchpin of the club's infield plans

I'm not sure how being injured 2 out of every 3 years helps the infield, but then again, I don't get paid the big bucks to know such things.

2008-11-20 09:13:38
472.   wronghanded
468 Seems like Torre would be content with only getting Sabathia and Furcal. I can't say that I disagree with him. Next year when Holliday becomes a free agent and we have 2 deadweight contracts gone (Jones, Schmidt) we can make a serious play for him. In the meantime we have to suffer with a season of Pierre/Jones in the OF. Hopefully our pitching is lights out next year.
2008-11-20 09:21:23
473.   Eric Stephen
Old Friend Trever Miller has the worst ERA+ in LA Dodger history for anyone that has pitched 2 or more games:

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/dMCR

2008-11-20 09:22:59
474.   Bumsrap
I wonder if signing Furcal tends to keep Hu, Abreu, DeJesus in the organization or hastens their trade. If it keeps them on the Dodgers I would support signing Furcal and if not, I wouldn't.
2008-11-20 09:27:32
475.   ToyCannon
I wonder after a year in Oakland if Holliday will be as valuable a commodity. The Rockies didn't do him any favors by trading him out of Coors in his walk year.
2008-11-20 09:29:42
476.   Bumsrap
475 - At least they didn't trade him to Padres.
2008-11-20 09:31:41
477.   berkowit28
472
Does anyone know the derivation or history of this meaning of "lights out"? On the face of it, it's not obvious, but I'm sure there must be an explanation. Online dictionaries define the expression only as meaning bedtime or a signal or sound for same. I guess it must be something like "end of discussion", "last word" - the ultimate. it would be interesting if anyone could come up with an early example.
2008-11-20 09:35:54
478.   Eric Stephen
474
Unless the Dodgers sign two middle infielders to multi-year deals, there will still be an open spot down the road for DeJesus at least.

I think 2009 is a year during which Hu and Abreu have to reprove themselves to the organization.

2008-11-20 09:38:18
479.   CajunDodger
472
I don't necessarily see the Pierre/Jones thing as being a bad issue. If Jones is serious about his fitness and getting his mind right, he and Schmidt could be unexpected surprises this year. After all, all of us are writing them off as dead weight anyway.

If he does stink, I think that Delwyn Young gets a shot in left with Pierre as competition. He is a decent hitter who could play up to Pierre's defensive prowess. I am much more worried about our depth in the infield if Abreu gets hurt again and if Hu does his Andruw Jones impersonation at the plate.

2008-11-20 09:39:47
480.   Bumsrap
Dodger depth

1 Martin, Ardoin
2 CC, Bills, Kuroda, Kewrshaw, Schmidt
3 Loney
4 Abreu, DeJesus
5 DeWitt
6 Furcal, Hu
7 Pierre
8 Kemp, Jones
9 Ethier
10 Broxton, Saito, Elbert, Wade, Miller, Kuo, McDonald
11 Young

2008-11-20 09:40:33
481.   wronghanded
475 If his stock plummets a little next year, that would actually be a good thing in terms of contract bidding. I don't think he'll be the .319/.386/.552 hitter he was in Colorado but he'll certainly be servicable in our line-up.
2008-11-20 09:40:56
482.   scareduck
EXCELLENT analysis at Brew Crew Ball as to why the Brewers' offer to C.C. Sabathia is about the same as the Yankees'.

http://www.brewcrewball.com/2008/11/19/665498/cc-s-choices

2008-11-20 09:44:09
483.   wronghanded
479 I agree, they'll just make us miss Manny even if they do play up to career norms. If Schmidt can come back and give us a productive year, that will be huge especially if we snag CC as well.
2008-11-20 09:45:20
484.   Bumsrap
481 His stock could go up if he shows in Oakland what other teams can expect he will do in their ballpark if his Oakland performance doesn't fall off the table.
2008-11-20 09:47:18
485.   Eric Stephen
479
He is a decent hitter who could play up to Pierre's defensive prowess

I don't think this is true. Pierre in LF is actually a plus defender. His speed helps him cover more ground, especially relative to the Luzinskis around the league.

Also, Pierre's arm weakness is minimized in LF. I found this interesting, from Bill James Online:

Pierre in LF, 2008
622 innings
28 of 71 runners advanced an extra base (39.4%)
0 baserunner kills

Ethier in LF, 2007-2008
583 innings
33 of 68 runners advanced an extra base (48.5%)
2 baserunner kills

2008-11-20 09:51:59
486.   Jon Weisman
Two new posts up top.
2008-11-20 09:53:01
487.   wronghanded
Apparently Utley is out 4-6 months needing hip surgery. Not that I ever wish injury upon anybody but why couldn't this have held him out of the LCS...
2008-11-20 09:56:45
488.   natepurcell
Is Junichi Tazawa any good?

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.