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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Happy Thanksgiving, Everyone!
2008-11-27 10:20
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Eat, sleep and be thankful and merry!

Comments (62)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-11-27 10:25:46
1.   underdog
Happy Turkey Day! (Or Tofurkey for vegans)

Speaking of turkeys, is there a way we can overturn whatever law it is that keeps the Lions on Thanksgiving day every year? It's just... sad.

2008-11-27 10:29:41
2.   Megaballs
Jamie doesn't speak for Colletti and Frank.
They have mucho room for payroll addition and a cross town rival to keep up with.

I think we're looking at Jamie's comments wrong. The sheer nonsense of it makes a payroll austerity unlikely to be introduced in such a way to Dodgerdom.

I think a big name is now sure to come or this statement will haunt the organization.

2008-11-27 10:46:28
3.   bablue
2,

Agreed. '09 will not be a rebuilding year, nor should it be. Even if we just sign one good FA we still might be the best team in the division. If we just sign Manny our offense will still probably be better than last year. We better just hope we spend our money wisely.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!!

2008-11-27 10:53:29
4.   Tripon
If and when Pete Carroll leaves USC, Jeff Fisher will come back home and lead the Trojans to a new age of dominance.
2008-11-27 10:57:34
5.   Tripon
2 She's a president of the Dodgers organization, she's a co-owner of the team. She's has input on major player personnel judging by her comments.

To claim that she has no power in the organization is silly. Jaime McCourt is as much a representative of the organization as Frank McCourt or Ned Coletti is.

If she indeed is only a figurehead, that's might be even worse as the Dodgers according to Jamie McCourt is a forefront on social issues, and if they're treating her as such, then that is hypocritical and a betrayal of the beliefs the McCourts think the Dodgers portray to the community and the world.

2008-11-27 10:59:35
6.   Andrew Kachaturian
This site: one of the things I'm thankful for. Thanks for all your hard work, Jon. Hope you have a great day.
2008-11-27 11:00:19
7.   Bob Timmermann
Why would Jeff Fisher want to come back to coach college football?

Does he want to hire Freeman McNeil so they can demonstrate the tip drill?

2008-11-27 11:04:20
8.   mintxcore
my day looks anything but restful, i have to help my fiancee make an entire dinner for 10, do all the dishes, all the last minute grocery runs (ahhh butchers twine!!!), and spend any downtime not watching football/mst3k, but instead just being thankful i didn't grow up with a family like hers! hahah
2008-11-27 11:10:15
9.   Megaballs
5. To think the owner trots out his wife to tell SoCal that we are altering payroll is silly.
2008-11-27 11:23:22
10.   Tripon
9 ...Jamie McCourt is as much of an owner and involved in the franchise as Frank McCourt is.

Also, to imply that Jamie McCourt cannot have an independent thought about the Dodgers from Frank is well, that's silly. Because its clear she's has her own opinions about certain things.

2008-11-27 11:24:13
11.   Megaballs
Let's drop the "silly" and enjoy the holiday.
2008-11-27 11:25:52
12.   Linkmeister
1 It's not just the Lions. Why can't we have baseball on Thanksgiving Day?

Happy T-Day to all, and particularly to Jon and Bob and Ken and all the other Toaster content-providers for all the thought-provoking and amusing work you do.

2008-11-27 11:26:27
13.   bigcpa
I have a question for the McCourts. If you buy a Malibu beachhouse for, pick a number, $33 million. Then six months later you buy the neighbor's house for $20 million. Does that seem a little weird to you? That's what we're trying to figure out. We're really trying to see it through the eyes of our owners.
2008-11-27 11:29:19
14.   mintxcore
13 not weird at all, these baseball fields are gonna be classy! beachfront!
2008-11-27 11:30:26
15.   D4P
13
Heh heh.

I doubt blame the McCourts one bit for being unhappy about writing big checks to Andruw Jones and the like. But if they don't like it, they should either hire a GM who knows what s/he's doing, or sell the team and go back to running parking lots.

2008-11-27 11:32:49
16.   popup
Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Stan from Tacoma

2008-11-27 11:34:00
17.   Andrew Shimmin
Are there any states left that aren't community property states? They're co-owners. I think the main point is that they wouldn't announce it if they'd decided to not spend money on free agents. So, it was always a little exuberant to take the words as an indication of front office policy (didn't see too many people doing that). Mrs. McCourt explained what she was doing in the Plaschke piece. She was empathizing with grunts like us. Hitchens would call it a tumbrel remark.

http://www.slate.com/id/2198957/ (rule 5 violations, but since the election is over, none of it really matters any more; I think, anyway, if you don't want to chance it by clicking, I won't take offense.)

2008-11-27 11:40:02
18.   D4P
I have a non-Rule 5 oriented question.

Ted Stevens from Alaska was convicted of failing to report the gifts he received from oil companies and such. Does that mean that the gifts themselves were OK, and that his only infraction was failing to report them?

In other words, is it true that it's perfectly OK for congress people to accept gifts from corporations and the like?

2008-11-27 11:51:16
19.   Bob Timmermann
If Stevens had reported the gifts, they would have been over the limit about what a member of Congress can receive. So he would have had to pay for everything or face ethics charges.

The limit for any one particular gift is $50 and the annual limit is $100.

There are some exceptions.

2008-11-27 11:56:57
20.   Snake in Philly
Lots of turkey in my immediate future.

It's probably been discussed ad nauseum, but Reading, PA has 2 things that it's known for in this part of the world. The Reading Outlets and the legendary Al's Diamond Cabaret, the finest BYOB gentlemen's club that I've ever entered...curiously located in the parking lot of the AA Reading Phillies stadium.

2008-11-27 12:07:44
21.   68elcamino427
I really enjoyed Bill P's column.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

2008-11-27 12:09:19
22.   Tripon
And for this new edition of crazy/silly Yankees trade thoughts:

The Yankees do not want to give Pettitte similar money as last year, knowing he is on the decline and is, at best in 2009, going to be a fifth starter. But, the Yankees need to offer arbitration, and hope that the Dodgers' need for a veteran starter is too much and they offer Pettitte a two year deal for good money. But, if Pettitte does accept arbitration, seek to trade him (and possibly Johnny Damon) to the Dodgers for a young player or two. I like Matt Kemp and James McDonald straight up.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/ny_baseball_digest_delgrippo_is_andy_pettitte_playing_the_yankees/

2008-11-27 12:16:38
23.   fernst2937
(22) Shocking how arrogant (and stupid) some of these comments can be.
2008-11-27 12:16:48
24.   bhsportsguy
18 Yes and no. There is a limit on the amount of the single gift, $100, I believe and the annual value of gifts from a person or company is $300.

Stevens also said that what he received was not "gifts" but a loan, that he never repaid.

But as in most things, the acceptance of the gift is not what triggers the prosecution, its the cover up.

2008-11-27 12:39:15
25.   Marty
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I'm busting out some zinfandel I've had stored for a few years.
2008-11-27 13:29:18
26.   bigcpa
From MLB trade rumors:
Odds and Ends: Blue Jays, Dodgers, Dunn

The first time I've read Dodgers and Dunn that close together in a sentence! Of course the Dodger update is the stupid McCourt comments and the Dunn update is that no one is openly interested in him.

2008-11-27 13:34:40
27.   Tripon
Perhaps people realize that bad defensive players tends to give up runs.
2008-11-27 14:57:10
28.   Gen3Blue
22 And I like A-rod for Procter and Pierre straight up!
2008-11-27 15:05:29
29.   Gen3Blue
Matt Kemp could end up an average center fielder, but he has the upside to be an amazing outfielder, so it is no surprise fans of every team in baseball for a couple of years have fantasized about receiving him in a trade. No front office in baseball could fail to notice this and keep him or get two MLers of above average ability for him. I hope.
2008-11-27 15:17:27
30.   Claire Malone-Evans
I thought I was watching some absurd Saturday Night Live skit, but it turned out to be the Jonas Brothers.
2008-11-27 15:19:12
31.   Tripon
I made a joke about how the Detroit Lions couldn't afford the Jonas Brothers for their halftime show, but then I see the Cowboys booked them. Yeesh.
2008-11-27 15:56:56
32.   Jeromy
I am very thankful, Jon, for all of your hard work and this Dodger community you've created. Although I don't post often, this site is a daily read for me. Thanks again!
2008-11-27 16:55:56
33.   Bluebleeder87
plans for tonight - hang out at el mercadito of ELA have a nice carne asada plate & listen to authentic Mariachi music...

I also wanna wish everysingle DT'er a very very happy thanksgiving.

2008-11-27 17:48:37
34.   scareduck
5 - jackpot. As for Jamie having independent thoughts, can we call her interview in Wednesday's Times "going rogue"? Or is that a Rule 5 violation? :-)
2008-11-27 18:03:14
35.   68elcamino427
34
"Sitting around the dinner table by the surf in Malibu talk" that just slipped out?

Jamie/Georgia?

2008-11-27 18:17:26
36.   scareduck
6 - just out of curiosity, you're not related to Aram, are you?
2008-11-27 19:13:32
37.   Gen3Blue
When most people around here refer to Jamie, they are not talking about (prospect?) Hoffman. But Paul and Hoffman could probably play for some small market teams and I hope they get the chance, having watched their rather long rise through our system.
2008-11-27 20:38:40
38.   trainwreck
I better win this week in DT fantasy football league with Romo, Westbrook, and Desean Jackson.
2008-11-27 20:41:41
39.   scareduck
31 - I saw that. It's been years since I've seen a stage act that bad.
2008-11-27 21:27:21
40.   Tripon
Also, as a person who should be a figurehead of an major sports franchise, and that's Jim Buss.

May Jeanie run the team after Jerry Buss retires/passes away, and may Jim never ever ever ever get near a basketball court again.

2008-11-27 21:37:26
41.   KG16
Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.

I have a bit of a baseball question, which was triggered by this from ESPN Page 2 (actually as part of a story on the NBA):

When baseball teams went into WHIP/OBP/VORP mode after "Moneyball" was released, Bill James wrote that the statistical revolution had changed the way rosters were assembled and games were played, only it might not necessarily be a good thing from an entertainment standpoint. After all, stolen bases are fun. Hit-and-runs are fun. Swinging for the fences on the first pitch is fun. Seeing a starter throw a 140-pitch complete game is fun. Watching a lineup with a bunch of boppers and no OBP guys is fun. Irrational, indefensible managerial decisions are fun. But watching hitters milk pitch counts, or managers use five relievers a game, or contender after contender constructed in the same cookie-cutter way ... not quite as fun.

So, my question is this, does anyone really find a, for lack of a better term, Moneyball team fun to watch? I understand the basic principles, and most of it makes sense: work the count, get a good pitch to hit, etc. But isn't there more to baseball than that? And isn't it possible to build a team that is fun to watch that can also be competitive? Isn't that what the Angels have done, after all?

I guess the way that I think about it, is like this, which would be more fun to watch, a line up with 8 JD Drews or a line up with 8 Nomars (in his prime, pre-injury)? And which would be more successful in terms of win/loss and revenue (and since baseball is a business, that's rather important)?

2008-11-27 21:49:02
42.   Jon Weisman
41 - Well, here's a potential counterpoint.

Caught stealings for your team are not fun. Busted hit-and-runs are not fun. Swinging for the fences on the first pitch and popping out is not fun. Seeing a starter throw a 140-pitch complete game and go on the DL a week later is not fun. Watching a lineup with a bunch of boppers and no OBP guys score one run is not fun. Irrational, indefensible managerial decisions are not fun and never were.

2008-11-27 21:59:52
43.   trainwreck
41
I believe it is the best way to the play the game, so it is fun to me.
2008-11-27 22:02:48
44.   Tripon
42 Counterpoint to the counterpoint.

Its fun for fans of teams that catch base stealers. Its fun when a team is able to bust up a hit and run. Its fun when a hitter tries to swing for the fences and a pitcher strikes him out. Its fun seeing a starter go into a game, and potentially close out a complete game. Its also fun to see how badly a irrational, indefensible managerial decision can blow up in that team's face.

...As long as you don't have a rooting interest in the result.

2008-11-27 22:37:21
45.   Tripon
http://dodgers.scout.com/2/815973.html

Up to date Winter league stats. Apparently, Ramon Troncoso has been starting for his WL team. Think he could work as a 5th starter?

2008-11-27 22:54:06
46.   fordprefect
Late Happy Thanksgiving, all!
36
visions of sabres dancing in my head :D
39
My wife called me over to the tube (interrupting my webcam shopping and badly jangling my nerves) to point out the ineptitude of their lip-synching!
2008-11-27 23:00:28
47.   Andrew Shimmin
If you put all the Moneyball (stipulating to the term) players in baseball in a pile, how many good teams could you make out of them? Maybe in a few generations this will be something to worry about, but right now it's pretty academic.
2008-11-27 23:02:05
48.   Ken Arneson
41 As an A's fan, the first thing I'd say is that winning is more fun than losing. So that's the priority. But once that's covered, I'll admit that I'd rather watch my team win like the Angels win than watch my team win like the A's win.

By the end of Ken Macha's reign, I bet I could have passed a Turing Test for his decision making. Managing by the Moneyball book may be statistically valid, but it is also utterly predictable. Mike Scioscia is much more of a challenge to guess along with, and that's more fun.

2008-11-27 23:44:24
49.   Tripon
On this week's Top Chef. One thing I noticed after re watching this... the season 5 chefs totally blew the season 2 chefs take on Thanksgiving out of the water. Most of the dishes were thoughtful riffs on thanksgiving classic, such as mac and cheese with bacon. The cooking of pork via a makeshift grill, the vegan stuffing, the pumpkin tiramisu, etc.

This season chefs are just high on the creativity and ingenuity, and while there isn't a chef of season 4 Richard standing among the crowd, they know how to cook out of a paper bag if so ordered.

2008-11-28 05:03:55
50.   D4P
Are the Red Sox a "Moneyball" team?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-11-28 07:00:16
51.   Ken Noe
Detroit has what the Pirates most covet, which is pitching prospects....the Pirates do not see Hu, a .193 hitter in his first 77 major league games, as anything more than a defensive replacement for Wilson, so the rest of the trade component will be key. By no means will Hu be the centerpiece.

http://tinyurl.com/562or7

2008-11-28 07:09:21
52.   Sam DC
Washington Post crossword (a sad excuse for a crossword puzzle, btw) number 2 down: six letters, "More avant-garde"

Shimmin unfortunately is seven letters . . .

2008-11-28 07:19:38
53.   D4P
52
A-n-d-r-e-w-...?
2008-11-28 07:36:23
54.   ChicagoDodger
51 the Pirates do not see Hu, a .193 hitter in his first 77 major league games, as anything more than a defensive replacement for Wilson, so the rest of the trade component will be key. By no means will Hu be the centerpiece.

I see that as mixed up.

Shouldn't it read, "the Dodgers do not see Wilson as anything more than a defensive replacement for Furcal, so the components of the trade being given to the Pirates will be key. By no means will the Dodgers give up anything of value for a player as offensively challenged (and overpaid) as Wilson"

Doesn't that sound a little more reasonable? I mean, afterall, we are talking about Jack Wilson. For the life of me, I don't even understand the attraction of him for the Dodgers.

2008-11-28 07:36:31
55.   cargill06
45 Nice, Xaiver Paul 7 HR's in 139 AB's. Troncoso 7 K's 0 BB's.
2008-11-28 07:56:30
56.   Ken Noe
That could mean the Pirates would have to assume salary from Detroit or pay part of what Wilson is owed. The Pirates would be willing to discuss the latter, probably, but only if the prospect return is exceptional. The Los Angeles scenario is similar.

54 I agree, no "exceptional" prospects are worth Jack Wilson.

2008-11-28 08:26:09
57.   ToyCannon
41
I'd much rather watch the Nomar style then the Drew style. I love watching Angel baseball and while they run themselves into some loses they are entertaining.

Showtime Lakers were fun to watch and they could win. It was the best of both worlds.

55
You could hit a home run in the Mexican League. All you have to do to put Xavier Paul's Mexican League power into perspective is to look at what Oscar Robles is also doing in that league.

2008-11-28 08:27:49
58.   ToyCannon
56
Hu hardly qualifies as an exceptional prospect these days but he does the same thing that Wilson does at a fraction of the cost. If Ned really trades Hu for Wilson and wastes more money then Jamie should trade Ned for some baseball fields.
2008-11-28 08:38:21
59.   D4P
I'd much rather watch the Nomar style then the Drew style

Does this assume the same outcome (e.g. they both hit a single, Nomar on the first pitch and Drew on the 10th), or do you mean you'd even rather watch Nomar pop-up on the first pitch than Drew walk or homer on the 10th?

2008-11-28 09:12:16
60.   Bluebleeder87
At this point (watching Furcal mess key plays in key games up) I wouldn't mind watching a defensive wizard at short but I hope we go for the in house solution.
2008-11-28 09:13:06
61.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-11-28 09:29:28
62.   Tripon
59 He could mean that he watches both Nomar and Drew on the bench nursing injuries.

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