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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Kirk Gibson, 1989-90: The Hero's Magic Gasps, And Dies
2008-12-29 21:30
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

In his first official at-bat following his legendary 1988 World Series home run, Kirk Gibson lined a single to right field to drive home new teammate Willie Randolph and give the Dodgers a 1-0 first-inning lead on Opening Day, 1989. Gibson then went to second on an Eddie Murray groundout, stole third base and, with a pump of the fist that called back his '88 heroics, scored on catcher Jeff Reed's throwing error. Four innings later, Gibson homered off 19888 Cy Young runner-up Danny Jackson.

But the Dodgers lost the game, 6-4. Good beginnings, unhappy endings - this was the story of Kirk Gibson's post-1988 Dodger career.

Even before that '89 season opener, there were already signs that Gibson's health was going to remain an issue, wrote Gordon Edes of the Times.

There had been some question whether the Dodgers' heavyweight, Gibson, would be able to go nine rounds Monday. Two or three days ago, Manager Tom Lasorda said he was convinced that Gibson was really hurting, and even after the game Monday, Gibson said he was a "mess." ...

"When I'm on the field I'm going to play hard, I'm going to force myself to play my game. I wouldn't have been out there if I was only going to run half-speed and not steal bases. . . . The other (team) doesn't care if I'm hurting, so when I go out on the field I don't ask for a get-well card."

When he came off the field, however, you could say it was a different story. Gibson played in the Dodgers' first 10 games, the last of which was their home opener April 13 - a game that he had to leave after the sixth inning, Edes wrote.

Trainer Bill Buhler said the Dodger left fielder, whose spring has been marred by knee, hamstring and shoulder problems, complained of being stiff and sore all over. ...

"It's just against my better judgment to continue playing," said Gibson, who even with his injuries has been the Dodgers' most productive hitter with eight runs batted in.

Despite that admission, however, Gibson is reluctant to concede that he will, indeed, sit out a while.

"I don't know that," he said. "I'm not really in the mood to talk about it."

Gibson started four of the next nine games, up to April 25. At that time, he was still managing a fine April for the Dodgers: a .393 on-base percentage and .460 slugging percentage. But his left hamstring locked up on him, forcing him from the game in the fifth inning, and he went on the disabled list for nearly a month.

When Gibson came back, on May 23, he came back strong. He played in 36 consecutive games, starting 35 of them. When extra innings and a doubleheader forced the Dodgers into 53 innings of baseball in three days, June 3-5, Gibson played 44 of them, with an OPS of 1.198. Through June 18, he was still on-basing .391 and slugging .493. The Dodgers were 34-33, but just 5 1/2 games out of first place in the National League West.

But then Gibson's contributions started to plummet. From June 19 to July 22, Gibson turned into a 2008 Andruw Jones: .121 batting average, .195 OBP, .196 slugging, .391 OPS. (If that weren't enough, he was the victim of a carjacking at gunpoint in his driveway after a 2-1 loss to San Diego on June 28, the Times reported.)

On July 23, with his OPS having dropped more than 200 points to .680, Gibson took himself out of the lineup. Wrote Bill Plashcke:

He was weary of fly balls he couldn't chase and fastballs he couldn't rip and ultimately, Kirk Gibson's competitive burn gave him no choice.

After the Dodgers' 8-4 victory over the Pittsburgh Pirates Saturday night, he asked to meet with team officials. It had become obvious, they weren't going to make it easy for him. You don't just bench most valuable players. He would have to do it himself.

So he flatly told them that his legs were killing him. And then he asked them, would they please take him off the roster.

"I don't have the ability to do the things expected of me," Gibson said Sunday after being placed on the disabled list for what could be the rest of the season. "As much as I wanted to tell myself I could do it, as positive as I wanted to be . . . reality is reality."

His problems were officially diagnosed as a sprained medial collateral in his right knee and a chronic left hamstring sprain. Gibson, who missed 27 days earlier this season with a left hamstring injury, translated them in different terms.

"I came back too early from the first injury, I still felt it," he said. "Then it got worse and worse and worse. Now, I hardly have any strength in my lower body at all, and I can't do anything. People who say I don't use my legs to hit, that's not true." ...

Why did Gibson wait until now to force that decision?

"I was trying to deal with it," Gibson said. "I am committed to my teammates. I have a contract, an agreement to give my best effort. I was dealing with this the best I could. I thought I would work through it. I couldn't."

Two weeks later, the Dodgers announced that Gibson would have season-ending surgery on his hamstring, with the hope - underline hope - that he would be ready for Spring Training 1990.

"This is the last alternative I have right now," Gibson told Steve Springer of the Times. "It worries me that this could bother me throughout my career. Everyone knows I want to play the game."

In fact, Gibson was out for more than 10 months, not returning until June 2, 1990. From Mark Heisler:

Kirk Gibson strode back into action Saturday night. He drew several standing ovations and, on the first big league pitch he'd seen in 10 months, hit a towering fly toward the right field seats.

Oh no, it couldn't be. ...

Not this time.

The ball came down in Paul O'Neill's glove, a foot in front of the fence. Kirk Gibson went 0 for 4 in the Dodgers' 8-3 loss to the Reds. If there was hope that he'd limp back out and turn the season around like it was the ninth inning of the '88 World Series opener, that hope did a serious fade. ...

Gibson's surgically repaired left hamstring, which had sidelined him since last July 22, may still be bothering him. His remarks before Saturday suggested something less than perfect confidence in it. ...

His 1990 campaign belatedly began 2-for-23, one walk. Within just a few weeks, trade talk began to surface, with Gibson himself eventually acknowledging he would welcome a move, ideally back to Detroit. In early July, Plaschke reported that Gibson and Dodger general manager Fred Claire shouted at each other in Lasorda's office.

Lasorda's door was closed, but the shouting was loud enough to be heard throughout the clubhouse. Although neither Claire nor Lasorda would comment on the nature of the dispute, it was apparently a culmination of frustration over Gibson's situation on the team.

Coming on the final day before the All-Star break, it provided a fitting end to a fitful first half in which the Dodgers finished with 10 losses in their last 16 games and a 39-43 record. ...

While discussing Gibson's status with him Sunday, Claire reportedly became upset and began scolding Gibson. He reportedly told Gibson that he should think less about himself and more about the team. He accused Gibson of having a bad attitude.

Gibson, who has played out of position in center field this season without complaint, became incensed with the remarks and began shouting. The two men reportedly began stalking each other around the room with Lasorda serving as referee.

When the meeting ended, Gibson left the office to the stares of hushed teammates. ...

It might have hardly been coincidence that around this time, Gibson started to find himself at the plate again. In 32 games from July 1 to August 11, his OPS was .966, propelling him to .867 on the season. It was this surge that appeared to stop the Dodgers from completing a July 31, deadline-day deal of Gibson to the Tigers, for pitcher Steve Searcy (career ERA from 1988-92, 5.68).

And then, suddenly, it was all gone again. Gibson hit no home runs for the remainder of the year, his OPS falling to .573 over the final two months, to finish at .745 for the year. It was an above-average 107 OPS+, so he was hardly a failure, but the glory days in Los Angeles were over.

In November, the Dodgers signed Darryl Strawberry. And on the first day of December, barely two years after his exultant limp around the Dodger Stadium infield, Kirk Gibson signed a free-agent contract with Kansas City.

Ross Newhan penned the epilogue.

Gibson never received an offer from the Dodgers, although Fred Claire, team executive vice president, said Saturday he had informed agent Doug Baldwin that he was prepared to offer arbitration before the Dec. 7 deadline, meaning Gibson could have stayed another year if he had wished.

"With our outfield structure, I couldn't go beyond that," Claire said, adding that he thinks a healthy Gibson will pay dividends for the Royals, and that he is deserving of thanks for his contributions to the Dodgers.

"The Gibson chapter was a success," Claire said. "I don't know if in the history of the game there was a player who signed as a free agent and became a most valuable player the next year. That speaks for itself." ...

Reduced to a part-time role by leg injuries and forced to undergo an experimental hamstring surgery, Gibson batted .213 over the next two years, hitting only 17 home runs. It was a span of frustration that seemed to bottom out in September when Gibson batted .159 with no homers and four runs batted in.

Amid the struggle, frustrated by his slow recovery and by what he felt was a half-hearted attempt by Claire to satisfy his desire to be traded to an American League team near his home, Gibson engaged Claire in a clubhouse shouting match that Claire says was talked out and forgotten the next day.

"Kirk said what he had to say, and I said what I had to say," Claire said. "I have nothing but respect for him."

Speaking by phone Saturday, Gibson said he regarded the Dodger experience as positive, although Los Angeles was the culture shock he expected, and that Kansas City will be better for a country boy.

"I did a lot for the Dodgers, and the Dodgers did a lot for me," he said. "I think we both have our memories."

Comments (230)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-12-29 21:47:19
1.   silverwidow
Red Sox tried to re-acquire Hanley Ramirez last week, but "talks didn't get very far."

That just makes me laugh for some reason.

2008-12-29 21:48:32
2.   Tripon
1 What, the Marlins aren't interested in Mike Lowell, and Josh Beckett?
2008-12-29 21:54:27
3.   immouch
great post. gibson was the ultimate drama, uh, king. (i'd use the more popular term, but gibby would jump through the computer and kick my ass.)
2008-12-29 22:14:24
4.   waterboy100
i really like your longer\more story orientented\(sometimes) rambling posts. it give me a sense of the larger history. im only 23, became a fan in 94ish so i dont remember too much of the good ol days. so its good to read about them.

ben

2008-12-29 22:26:08
5.   Disabled List
The equation for this post is:

Kirk Gibson : 1988-89 Dodgers :: Manny Ramirez : 2008-09 Dodgers

Maybe.

2008-12-29 22:49:51
6.   Louis in SF
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/ne

This pitcher from Cuba (Yadel Marti) apparently has defected, perhaps the Dodgers can pick him up. Wondering if the Dunn conversation is out there to try and move Boras to at least make a counter offer to the Dodgers.

2008-12-29 23:12:47
7.   Eric Stephen
Fred Claire: "I don't know if in the history of the game there was a player who signed as a free agent and became a most valuable player the next year"

All Claire had to do was go back one year (from 1988)! Andre Dawson signed with the Cubs just before the 1987 season (the collusion offseason) then won the 1987 MVP.

2008-12-29 23:31:46
8.   Eric Stephen
5
If that's true, it would be quite a sight to see Manny play CF in 2010!
2008-12-29 23:33:23
9.   Eric Stephen
6
Link got cut off. Here is the full link:

http://tinyurl.com/8ucmxo

2008-12-29 23:41:14
10.   silverwidow
Targeting high OBP guys like Dunn & Abreu over the prototypical Ned player like Garrett Anderson seems like a shift in... something.
2008-12-30 00:17:30
11.   Johnson
6 (littela) What I don't understand is why everybody seems to want to sign defective pitchers! And for some reason these defective pitchers always come from Cuba! Why does Cuba keep shipping us defective pitchers? Are they still sore over Babe the Pig? Come on, guys, it was just a movie, for crying out...huh? Oh. Really? Oh.

Never mind! (/litella)

2008-12-30 00:21:26
12.   bablue
Couple of things in things in the prevoius post.

Thanks Toy for pointing to my Dunn analysis. Fangraphs shows that Dunn has been of similiar value to Pierre over the last few years and I think he'd only be worth a one win improvement over Pierre. I don't think Abreu would represent much improvement over Pierre at all. Although it is nice to see Ned interested in some high OBP guys, I hope the only one we sign is Manny.

Also in regards to Sheets, why not Pettitte? There's been lost of talk about Sheets but hardly any about us getting Pettitte. Yes he had a 4.54 ERA last year, but he got unlucky. He is 36, but he put up a 3.71 FIP in 204 innings last year in the AL East!!! Comparing Bill James and Marcels projections for him and Sheets for 2009:

Bill James-
Sheets: 186 IP 3.46 FIP
Pettitte: 192 IP 3.66 FIP

Marcels-
Sheets: 173 IP 3.61 FIP
Pettitte: 183 IP 3.98 FIP

These are pretty similiar when you consider the fact the projections don't know that Sheets might still be hurt. Now consider that Pettitte doesn't have the same injury concerns, won't cost a first round pick unlike Sheets, and could likely be had on a one year deal where Sheets will probably get two or three years. I'd be happy with either one of them, but given the choice, assuming similiar AAV of contracts, I'll take Pettitte in 2009. He is easily worth the 10M or so we'd spend on him for 1 year.

2008-12-30 01:07:22
13.   Dodgers49
12 But Pettitte is reportedly unhappy with the 10M offer the Yankees currently have on the table. He made 16M last year and does not want to take such a large pay cut.
2008-12-30 01:57:06
14.   bablue
13,

Pettitte's Marcels projection comes out to about +31 runs, meaning 3.1 wins above replacement (WAR). Thats worth about 15M on the free agent market, so we could pay him that if we have to. Keep in mind Lowe's Marcels projects him at about 3.5 WAR, so we are nearly replacing Lowe, but with much less risky deal (1 year instead of 3 or 4). I we could get Manny on a 2 year deal and Pettitte, with maybe another very cheap backend starter if there's payroll room, I think that would be a great offseason.

2008-12-30 01:59:35
15.   bablue
14 "I" should be "if"
2008-12-30 05:30:36
16.   Bob Hendley
Gibson redefines "general soreness".
2008-12-30 06:39:16
17.   ToyCannon
Gibby should have taken 1989 off much like Eric Davis took off 1995.

Magic doesn't happen twice. Just ask Magic.

2008-12-30 07:02:25
18.   D4P
Magic doesn't happen twice

And if it does, we no longer consider it magic.

2008-12-30 07:06:17
19.   Eric Stephen
17
I really loved the juke on Spreewell though.
2008-12-30 07:08:39
20.   scareduck
Wow, that episode between Lasorda and Claire really made me lose a lot of respect for Claire. (I had very little respect for Lasorda to begin with.) It's kind of funny, but wasn't Claire's background in PR rather than baseball operations? If that's true, isn't he's oddly similar to Ned Colletti?
2008-12-30 07:20:29
21.   scareduck
5 - thing is, unlike with Gibson, there's no reason to think Ramirez is having injury problems. The big risk with Manny is age, i.e. that he'll fall off a cliff offensively while still collecting a big paycheck.
2008-12-30 07:24:18
22.   Jon Weisman
21 - I guess you've never read ToyCannon's repeated comments to the contrary about Manny's health.
2008-12-30 07:46:35
23.   D4P
What will it say about the Dodgers if they refuse to trade Jones because they don't want to pay most of his salary, but then end up DFAing him at some point during the season...?
2008-12-30 07:56:56
24.   D4P
On a lark, I used Fangraphs to calculate the total value of selected teams. Here are team values, along with team payrolls:

Dodgers: $82M/$118
As: $70M/$47M
Padres: $71M/$73M
Red Sox: $156M/$133M
Yankees: $83M/$207M

In other words, for example, the As got $70 million worth of players for only $47 million, while the Yankees paid $207 million for only $83 million worth of players.

2008-12-30 07:58:22
25.   D4P
The Rays got $138 million worth of players for $43 million.
2008-12-30 08:01:24
26.   Disabled List
23 Pride goes before the fall.
2008-12-30 08:01:53
27.   natepurcell
14

I would be a fan of acquiring Pettitte for one year. Low risk and probably worth the money.

2008-12-30 08:11:08
28.   natepurcell
One think I do worry about Pettitte is that the last 4 years, his innings total looks like this:

222
214
215
204

And with him being 37 in the middle of next season...that's a lot of wear and tear on the arm.

2008-12-30 08:29:03
29.   kngoworld
Jon, this was a wonderfully put together post. I really appreciate it as I was too young to remember that majority of this and especially to young to read newspapers at the time. Thank You.
2008-12-30 08:38:05
30.   kinbote
Wow. "Oh the Huge Manatee" is brilliant [scroll down]:

http://mikesciosciastragicillness.com/

2008-12-30 08:53:13
31.   tjdub
0 June 2, 1990. The last time I've been to Dodger Stadium. A sad day and a very good reason to hate Paul O'Neill.
2008-12-30 09:09:33
32.   gibsonhobbs88
29 - Yes and it brought back fond memories also. No matter what happened the next two years, the fact that he was a part of delivering that World Series title in 88 made the signing of Gibson our greatest free agent success story. The Game 1 homerun will always be a cherished memory of mine since I was in the right field bleachers - 2nd row one bleacher section to right center from where the ball landed. It landed about 7-8 rows back in the bleachers to my right from my recollection.
That memory alone made the signing worth it to me! So if they sign Manny to 3 years and we get to just 1 World Series because of it with an opportunity to win, it will be worth it as well, IMHO!
2008-12-30 09:11:35
33.   LogikReader
Gibson said he regarded the Dodger experience as positive, although Los Angeles was the culture shock he expected

As opposed to Detroit?

2008-12-30 09:17:55
34.   Big Game
33 Los Angeles and Detroit are about as far apart on the cultural spectrum as two American cities get.
2008-12-30 09:19:42
35.   Bob Timmermann
34
Also being the victim of a "follow home" robbery probably didn't exactly sweeten the experience for Gibson.
2008-12-30 09:20:21
36.   underdog
Neat post. Man, I'd completely forgotten that Gibson went to KC after the Dodgers -- blanked that out entirely. Not that I missed much.

Btw, speaking of Fred Claire, here's some blah blah from him on next year's "thin free agent class":

http://tinyurl.com/9cf6j3

2008-12-30 09:21:27
37.   Bob Hendley
34 - and yet in perfect harmony: They produced cars and we produced freeways.
2008-12-30 09:29:13
38.   guy clinch
Hello....this post encouraged me to look at the BR pages for the early 1990s Dodgers. I vaguely remember Kal Daniels, as he played before I became a fan. He looks like he was a good player, putting up some solid seasons, including a 154 OPS+ in 1990. But he was out of baseball at age 28. I'm guessing injuries, but does anyone know offhand what happened to the guy? Thanks.
2008-12-30 09:30:39
39.   Jon Weisman
38 - Yes, it was injuries - knees, I believe.
2008-12-30 09:40:42
40.   old dodger fan
Thanks so much for the write up on Gibson. He gave Dodger fans one of our all time great memories, right up there with Podres (for us old guys) and Koufax.

I really liked Gibson. He was no nonsense and always gave his best. Maybe he should have sat sometimes when he played but he always gave it his best.

2008-12-30 09:42:44
41.   Jason in Canada
Kalvoski Daniels!

My all time favorite Dodger name. Kal always seemed to be on the cusp of something great. He was my fave player in the era that preceded Piazza and the rest of the ROY bunch.

He had a great 1990 season if I remember right. Hit a bunch of grand slams...

2008-12-30 09:54:18
42.   underdog
It's interesting that two of the better players for the Dodgers in that era were both also former Reds, Eric Davis and Kal Daniels, and both had relatively short-lived careers.
2008-12-30 10:03:42
43.   kinbote
The only autograph I ever got [location unknown] was from Eric Davis. He went to high school where my dad taught (Fremont High) and his batting practices were legendary. His line drive homers were on par with Sheffield's.
2008-12-30 10:07:16
44.   Bob Hendley
42 - Perhaps as Dodgers. Eric Davis, at least, had an OPS+ 151 at age 36 while playing for the O's.
2008-12-30 10:07:35
45.   bhsportsguy
43 If Eric Davis had remained healthy, he very well could have been the best baseball player ever from the Los Angeles area.

Again, off the top of my head, I would put Duke Snider, Eddie Murray, Ozzie Smith, Tony Gwynn, Daryl Strawberry in that discussion, who else am I missing?

2008-12-30 10:09:27
46.   ToyCannon
Does Pasadena count?
2008-12-30 10:09:41
47.   bearlurker
Mark McGwire--Damien HS, USC

Barry Bonds was born in Riverside.

2008-12-30 10:09:43
48.   Bob Timmermann
45
Don Drysdale and Bobby Doerr are both in the Hall of Fame.
2008-12-30 10:10:12
49.   bearlurker
46

Can't believe I didn't think of that one.

2008-12-30 10:11:28
50.   delias man
45 Drysdale would be my favorite.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-12-30 10:11:59
51.   Bob Timmermann
Gary Carter and Jeff Kent are both from Orange County.
Darrell Evans was from Pasadena. Dwight Evans was from Chatsworth.
2008-12-30 10:12:06
52.   delias man
45 But that is a pretty complete South LA list...
2008-12-30 10:13:02
53.   Bob Timmermann
Robin Yount says hello
2008-12-30 10:17:21
54.   ToyCannon
And Connor Jackson / Randy Wolf
2008-12-30 10:18:47
55.   delias man
54 I thought we were talking about greatest?
2008-12-30 10:19:25
56.   D4P
Back in the mid-80s, when my mom married my first step-dad, he told me that Bobby Doerr lived near his house in Junction City, OR. He always told me he'd take me out to meet Mr. Doerr, but he never did.
2008-12-30 10:22:23
57.   cargill06
Toycannon,

I had a question about Dunn's WAR the last 4 years compared to Pierre's. I'm not too educated on WAR so please explain to me. 3 of the 4 years Pierre has been judged as a CF'er, if he were indeed to start for the Dodgers it would be as a LF'er. Wouldn't Dunn as a LF'er be much more valuable than Pierre as a LF'er?

2008-12-30 10:22:53
58.   ToyCannon
55
They were just saying Hi back to fellow Woodland Hills alumni Robin Yount. Not meant to be included in the BH conversation.
2008-12-30 10:24:37
59.   ToyCannon
57
The post you are referring to was written by BaBlue not by me. You can address the question to him in the TBLA comment section or maybe he will see it here and answer it.
2008-12-30 10:25:57
60.   Jon Weisman
Ryan McGuire also went to El Camino Real with Wolf. As did Ron Cey's son Dan.
2008-12-30 10:27:08
61.   ToyCannon
If we are going to bring in Valley players then odd/even boy Brett Saberhagen would like to be added.
2008-12-30 10:27:11
62.   Jon Weisman
The Taft (HS) Draft:

http://tinyurl.com/a63xzr

2008-12-30 10:28:18
63.   delias man
58 Noted.
2008-12-30 10:31:28
64.   cargill06
Also, Dunn is worth 9.7 WAR over the past 4 years or on average of 2.425 wins WAR per year which is 21.25% above average. That seems like a pretty good player to me, a hitter at Dodger stadium that is 21.25% above average last year would put up a line of .XXX/.372/.471.
2008-12-30 10:36:38
65.   ToyCannon
62
Forgot about that tool. Using that tool and Los Angeles, CA as the drafting city gets you a list that might answer the BH question post 1965.
Chet Lemon was a good player for a long time.

Ole friend Rick Auerback was from Woodland Hills. Cool tool.

2008-12-30 10:44:34
66.   ToyCannon
64
I don't mean to blow off your question, I'm just not the WAR guy. Andrew did the heavy lifting on that stuff, I was just supposed to be filler and fluff. Eric should be able to answer your question without getting a headache.
2008-12-30 10:50:06
67.   Lexinthedena
If the Sraw Man didn't screw up he'd have 600+ home runs in my opinion.
2008-12-30 10:55:22
68.   cargill06
I haven't seen any dollar figures for the following players, but any guesses or heard anything about what type of contract would get it done?

Wolf, Garland, Sheets, Dunn, Abreu

2008-12-30 10:55:29
69.   silverwidow
The exhibition schedule runs from 2/25-4/5. Isn't that ridiculously long?
2008-12-30 10:56:45
70.   ToyCannon
It was amazing how much bad luck we had with Eric Davis, Strawberry, and Kal Daniels, three of the most gifted young players in that era.
2008-12-30 10:57:49
71.   silverwidow
Dunn: 3/$45M
Abreu: 2/$30M

I wouldn't offer the pitchers more than two years.

2008-12-30 10:59:03
72.   kinbote
69 My friend just told me he's going to the LA/SF game on 4/5 at PacBell. That's right before opening day! It's amazing how long they play . . .
2008-12-30 11:00:13
73.   kinbote
71 I would not be happy with adding Abreu at that price.
2008-12-30 11:00:23
74.   cargill06
71 That's just your own guess?
2008-12-30 11:02:03
75.   silverwidow
74 Yeah. I have no idea what these guys are asking for, but I think those are somewhat reasonable prices.
2008-12-30 11:19:47
76.   Bob Timmermann
The spring training season is longer this year because of the WBC.
2008-12-30 11:20:02
77.   ToyCannon
Once the Cubs decide who they are going to get that is going leave very few suitors for the pack of Milton/Dunn/Abreu/Burrel/Manny given that just about all of them are designated hitters masquerading as left fielders.

How many other teams are looking to fill a vacancy and can pay over 10Mill per season for anyone not named Mannny that can fill the LF or DH role?

Currently I see the Cubs, Mets, Dodgers, Giants, Nationals, and maybe the Rays as being players for these guys. Other then Manny does anyone really need to go 15 Million per year for any of these guys given the market? It will be interesting to see where they fall and for how much. It might be best to be the last team standing instead of being proactive.

2008-12-30 11:30:08
78.   Bob Timmermann
Spotted today in Downtown Los Angeles:

Penn State fans. Almost all of them in shorts. They seemed quite happy.

2008-12-30 11:30:19
79.   OhioBlues12
77 - Add Garrett Anderson and Ken Griffey Jr. to that list in the next tier that will be less productive but probably more affordable. Look for the Rays to take one of these two, though I think Bradley would be a good fit there.
2008-12-30 11:36:33
80.   Lexinthedena
78 That reminds me to get out of Pasadena as soon as I get out of work tomorrow.
2008-12-30 11:38:26
81.   bhsportsguy
78 Are they staying at the Bonaventure? Also, putting aside that great tourist attraction known as the Richard Riordan Library, what else is there to see downtown?

Oh yeah, LA Live.

2008-12-30 11:42:17
82.   Xeifrank
57. Pierre is docked approximately 1 WAR offensively for moving from CF to LF, but LF is an easier position to play and his arm is slightly less of a factor in LF than in CF (think throw to 3B). If you think Pierre's defensive switch from CF to LF upgrades his defense by 1 win, then he has the same value as a CF and LF. UZR sure doesn't think so (small sample size in LF), but it doesn't take arm strength into account. I think other defensive metrics rated Pierre very high as a LF, but I'd leave that as an excercise to you to confirm. Now from my spreadsheet I have Pierre's WAR at 0.37 as a LFer using UZR and giving Pierre 1 win for his base running and playing 75% of the time. I have Dunn at 2.14 WAR even with a 1-1/2 win deduction for defense.
vr, Xei
2008-12-30 11:44:08
83.   Bob Timmermann
81
They were all waiting for the F Dash bus which would take them to Staples, LA Live, or even to enemy territory at USC.
2008-12-30 11:47:21
84.   madmac
56 my dad worked at the old can plant in Junction City. It's closing resulted in our move to CA.
2008-12-30 11:47:32
85.   mwhite06
80 I work in Pasadena as well. In the past I have usually been on vacation this time of year, but I am also working tomorrow. Is it usually difficult to get out of Pasadena on New Years Eve around 3? I head out usually on the 210 West at Del Mar.
2008-12-30 11:49:17
86.   D4P
84
Working in Junction City, living in Springfield...

Some guys have all the luck!

2008-12-30 11:53:16
87.   Bob Timmermann
85
The streets don't close until 8. Just stay off of Colorado and you'll be fine.
2008-12-30 11:54:30
88.   madmac
86 yeah, but JC had that Norwegian Festival thing. Great fun.

We gave all that up to live in Modesto CA.

2008-12-30 11:57:50
89.   D4P
that Norwegian Festival thing

I think it was called the Scandinavian festival, which first introduced me to the delicacy called something like "frijo", which were similar to what I now know as elephant ears, churros, etc.

Yum!

2008-12-30 11:58:28
90.   Big Game
47 Alvin Davis is also from Riverside...He went to the same HS as Adam Kennedy(John W. North). Troy Percival pitched for UCR.

Dusty Baker was also born there...

2008-12-30 11:58:44
91.   Dane Bramage
83 Penn State fans I can handle, it's those darn Michigan fans you must look out for! They insist on driving here, and all of Pasadena is invaded with those hideous blue license plates on cars full of people who have no clue how to drive at speed on city streets devoid of snow...

My wife and I derisively call them "Meshugga-nites" (Michigan-ites)

2008-12-30 11:59:29
92.   Bob Timmermann
They prefer "Michiganders."
2008-12-30 12:03:30
93.   madmac
89 ah yes, Scandinavian festival. That pastry is also the only thing I remeber about the festival.
2008-12-30 12:09:50
94.   bhsportsguy
I wonder what time they allow the RVs to park at the Rose Bowl?

Bob, did you read the story about the tolls that the San Francisco Transit Authority wants to set to enter and leave the City.

But then again, you'll never go there so it probably doesn't matter to you.

2008-12-30 12:11:35
95.   Bob Timmermann
RV parking at the Rose Bowl started yesterday.
2008-12-30 12:15:58
96.   bablue
57,
Yeah as Xeirank said Pierre would lose positional value going from CF to LF but LF is an easier position to play (he is compared to guys like Manny, Burrell and Holliday instead of guys like Ellsbury, Victorino, and Tavares) so he should gain the value back in fielding. I personally think Dunn is only one win upgrade over Pierre but I didn't do the calculations like Xeifrank.

82,
So you have Pierre at -0.63 WAR without the baserunning?

2008-12-30 12:18:07
97.   bhsportsguy
95 You will find more Penn State gear wearing fans at:

1. At a coffee shop in South Pasadena wondering why there is a picture of Manny Ramirez by the register.
2. "Hooters" on Colorado (in Pasadena) rooting against the other Big Ten schools.
3. On the Gold Line wondering what you can eat in "Chinatown."
4. Looking for places to stand for the Rose Parade.
4.

2008-12-30 12:23:27
98.   Bob Timmermann
I fully expect Penn State to get to the Rose Bowl late and then Joe Paterno and Pete Carroll will get into a fight at midfield.
2008-12-30 12:28:35
99.   cargill06
Just spit balling here, what is Eric Berard's status for '09? I wonder is Seattle is open to trading him? I'd imagine his cost would be low.
2008-12-30 12:38:44
100.   Disabled List
97 Don't forget Farmer's Market. That place is ground zero for Rose Bowl fans. Every year, I would go there around New Years to check out the army of starstruck Big 10 co-eds. Unfortunately, their parents usually made the trip too.

And not for nothing, but we have the "Best Player from LA" discussion at least three times a year on DT, and every time, people forget to mention George Brett. I'm starting to think you people are biased against El Segundites.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-12-30 12:40:08
101.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Daryle Ward holds the CIF Southern Section career record for triples.

Presumably he was smaller then.

I believe Gerald Laird is the CIF Southern Section doubles leader.

2008-12-30 12:41:26
102.   D4P
101
Then again, you're no fun.
2008-12-30 12:42:09
103.   Bob Timmermann
I was born no fun.
2008-12-30 12:43:52
104.   D4P
I blame St. Louis.
2008-12-30 12:48:43
105.   still bevens
The more affluent Penn State fans have been sighted at the Century Plaza Hotel in Century City. Also think the Trojans are staying at the Hyatt down the street as I saw some police and a bunch of burly dudes wearing school shirts on my way to work this morning.
2008-12-30 12:48:59
106.   Bob Timmermann
I wasn't born in St. Louis.
2008-12-30 12:49:35
107.   D4P
106
I know. But it's genetic.
2008-12-30 12:50:07
108.   madmac
Today's Holiday Bowl at 5PM should be a good one. GO DUCKS!
2008-12-30 12:55:46
109.   cargill06
http://www.scoutingbook.com/prospects/of

Don't know how legit this site is, but LaPorta is ranked #7 and Santana ranked #79 if that makes anyone feel better.

2008-12-30 12:58:42
110.   trainwreck
Poor DeWayne Walker. New Mexico State ain't exactly a place for coaches to thrive. At least there are low expectations.
2008-12-30 13:01:47
111.   cargill06
However, Elbert's delivery is unconventional, often leading to some disastrous walk numbers and a few fingers pointing him to the Instructional League. His control looked more in hand before his 2007 season was shut down for some (minor) cleanup surgery, and he missed most of 2008 recovering, but the Dodgers saw enough in his return that they brought him all the way up to the big league club in the fall, using his lefthanded lightning from the bullpen during the stretch run. Elbert's arm quality is very very high, and he seems to have the mental makeup to survive some bumps along his path to the majors. Since the combination of the surgery flag and his odd delivery may scare too many people into ranking him quite low, he's an excellent sleeper candidate for 2009-2010. Chad Billingsley and Clay Kershaw still get most of the attention in LA right now, but Elbert just might be the real future ace of the Dodgers.

I didn't know Billingsley got attention.

2008-12-30 13:01:56
112.   mwhite06
98 Its funny to think Joe Paterno wasn't even born yet when that incident occured.
2008-12-30 13:11:50
113.   John Hale
Can any Duck fans here tell me if my six and ten year old sons will be safe in Mac court wearing the UCLA jerseys they got for christmas this sunday? I don't think they will be confused for Kevin Love but will we get a greeting similar to his family? For the record his father is very annoying.
2008-12-30 13:13:33
114.   trainwreck
113
I would definitely avoid that at Mac Court.
2008-12-30 13:14:13
115.   D4P
113
The closer you sit to the student section, the less "safe" you're likely to be.

Though the worst that might happen is some verbal ribbing. Their relative youth would probably render them immune.

2008-12-30 13:17:25
116.   trainwreck
You would think hippies would not be so hostile for sporting events.
2008-12-30 13:19:40
117.   Bob Timmermann
116
Dodgers fans used to be really mellow too.
2008-12-30 13:22:20
118.   D4P
116
Most people who attend Oregon basketball (and football) games are not hippies.
2008-12-30 13:27:25
119.   Tripon
They're hippies who like money and fine things?
2008-12-30 13:30:36
120.   ToyCannon
Pac 10 actually doing well in Bowl Games isn't it?
2008-12-30 13:30:55
121.   trainwreck
119
Yes. They are high-middle-class suburban kids that try to change in college, but really aren't that different.
2008-12-30 13:33:48
122.   D4P
After the 1995 Rose Bowl (and perhaps starting within the 5 or so years leading up to it), Oregon fanship transitioned from a kind of grass-rootsy group of relatively long-time Oregonians to a nouveau riche crowd of relatively wealthy newcomers who drive SUVs and live in Bluth Company style homes.

This transition was represented symbolically with the replacement of Donald Duck with the new "O" on Duck paraphernalia.

2008-12-30 13:34:16
123.   trainwreck
I used to talk to real hippies at Hempwise in Santa Barbara. Talk about relentless optimism.
2008-12-30 13:36:24
124.   Bob Timmermann
Oregon's unis in the 1995 Granddaddy:

http://tinyurl.com/goodoregonunis

2008-12-30 13:40:10
125.   Brent Knapp
I hope this isn't frowned upon but I just saw half price southwest tickets to vegas from January 13 through March 11. Flights must be booked today or tomorrow.

http://www.southwest.com/landing/vegas_50off.html?src=e123008

2008-12-30 13:44:55
126.   Big Game
119 Huppies?
2008-12-30 13:47:51
127.   trainwreck
126
Now that is a good term.
2008-12-30 13:52:09
128.   Bob Timmermann
I opted not to set up a Roady's Humanitarian Bowl Chat thread. The Texas Bowl won't get one either.

But the Texas Bowl doesn't really exist because:
1) it's the Texas Bowl
2) it's on the NFL Network
I hear it's all being staged. Sort of like "Capricorn One."

2008-12-30 13:58:35
129.   madmac
125 thanks for the link. We made reservations for LV just this morning and still hadn't made flight plans. This is perfect.
2008-12-30 14:00:55
130.   Big Game
Sign of the times:

My employer informed us that going forward, due to economic hardship, they will no longer contribute to our dental or vision insurance or match funds contributed to our 401k. In addition, they're freezing hiring and wages.

They've also lowered the contribution to our medical insurance to 35% from 50%.

2008-12-30 14:07:24
131.   D4P
130
Meanwhile, Andruw Jones will make over $22 million this year.
2008-12-30 14:13:10
132.   Howard Fox
130 but you still have a job...
2008-12-30 14:17:46
133.   scareduck
130 - coming up next: you get to buy your own office supplies. Including the office.
2008-12-30 14:18:20
134.   scareduck
133 - actually, I shouldn't joke about that. Teachers have been doing that for a while now.
2008-12-30 14:20:07
135.   Xeifrank
96. -0.33 without the baserunning adjustment (70% playing time). But like I mentioned, UZR is hard on Pierre and it's not much of a sample size with his LF playing time. I could easily bounce him up to +1 wins in LF and that would put his WAR at 1.0 which would be close to the 1 WAR difference you had between the two players. vr, Xei
2008-12-30 14:21:56
136.   Xeifrank
How are the college football exhibition games going thus far?
vr, Xei
2008-12-30 14:28:14
137.   Bob Timmermann
Maryland and Nevada are in a shootout on the blue turf of Boise!
2008-12-30 14:30:28
138.   Xeifrank
137. Does the winner move on to the next round, or is their season over?
vr, Xei
2008-12-30 14:31:04
139.   cargill06
Mike Shannanhan has been fired. Unfortunetly I don't have a source, just what was reported on ESPN 710.
2008-12-30 14:31:17
140.   Bob Timmermann
Once you've been to Boise in late December, you don't need to go anywhere else!
2008-12-30 14:32:43
141.   trainwreck
Holy crap!!!!

Shanahan fired in Denver!!

2008-12-30 14:33:26
142.   trainwreck
139
Now on ESPNews.
2008-12-30 14:33:55
143.   madmac
139 that is fabulous news if true (sorry U-Dog if you like him). Can't stand the guy myself.
2008-12-30 14:35:00
144.   madmac
143 I don't like to see anyone be out of work, but he will find employment pretty easily I'm sure.
2008-12-30 14:38:07
145.   trainwreck
Hating Denver won't be the same with him not around.
2008-12-30 14:49:17
146.   trainwreck
I could see them going after Cowher. Which would really suck for me.
2008-12-30 14:51:08
147.   Howard Fox
Cowher isn't going anywhere, at least not this year.
2008-12-30 14:55:58
148.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Shanahan is still not going to reveal his job status on the NFL injury report.
2008-12-30 14:56:27
149.   Tripon
Cowher should. Denver has no GM to boss him around, he'll have full personal control in a Super easy division and a young QB, and defense. He'd run right over Norv Turner.
2008-12-30 14:57:30
150.   LogikReader
My philosophy with firing coaches is this:

Can you definitively find a coach that is that much better than the man you let go? If the answer is "no," then firing is a scapegoat move.

I'm rather surprised to see Shanahan let go. I know the Broncos had a big collapse down the stretch, but firing Shanahan seems like a panic move.

We can't blame Shanahan for the Broncos' complete lack of defense. Unless Shanahan himself had that much control over signings and trades, I'm surprised the Broncos would suddenly ditch Shanahan now.

Perhaps there is another dimension I overlooked?

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-12-30 15:00:39
151.   trainwreck
150
I think they did not want him to be in control of personnel anymore and Shanahan is not the type of guy that would be happy about losing that control.
2008-12-30 15:00:50
152.   Howard Fox
150 Perhaps there is another dimension I overlooked?

...as in perhaps Shanahan has never won without a QB named Elway...

2008-12-30 15:02:34
153.   D4P
Can you definitively find a coach that is that much better than the man you let go? If the answer is "no," then firing is a scapegoat move.

If the answer is "no," then don't pay him/her $4 million a year.

2008-12-30 15:06:17
154.   Tripon
Cowher to the Broncos, Shanahan to the Jets. If Shanahan still wants to coach.
2008-12-30 15:09:46
155.   trainwreck
Or Marty Schottenheimer to the Broncos. Shanahan to Chiefs aka the Chefs.
2008-12-30 15:11:33
156.   MSarg29
Cowher has 2 daughters in school in the NY/NJ area so the Jets aren't such a longshot.
Tannenbaum and Mangini were close so a change at GM with the Jets isnt out of the question.
2008-12-30 15:11:41
157.   madmac
145 true,true

146 it would suck for a lot of us

2008-12-30 15:14:07
158.   madmac
155 I could see that happening.
2008-12-30 15:28:14
159.   bhsportsguy
You can buy Club Level seats to the Charger/Colts game only $315 apiece with a $7.50 convenience charge.

chargers.com

2008-12-30 15:31:20
160.   underdog
Wow. I'm still in shock.

I was sort of a defender of Shanahan's in Denver, among the nuts who post on the Denver Post's site, but definitely think he was past his prime. And to think, here I was naiively calling for another defensive coordinator firing. Well, that will fortunately still come next.

Anyway, this may or may not surprise you, but a lot of people in Denver will be happy. I for one will be more happy if the Cowher rumor is true. I love Cowher. I also like gary Kubiak.

Wow. Crazy.

2008-12-30 15:32:13
161.   Jim Hitchcock
WHO IS YOUR ROLE MODEL???

1) Pick your Favorite number between 1-9

2) Multiply by 3 then

3) Add 3, then again Multiply by 3 (I'll wait while you get the calculator …………..

4) You'll get a 2 or 3 digit number….

5) Add the digits together

Click on Read More

Using that number, see who your ROLE MODEL is from the list below :

1. Albert Einstein
2. Nelson Mandela
3. George W. Bush
4. Bret Favre
5. Bill Gates
6. Gandhi
7. Brad Pitt
8. Abraham Lincoln
9. Me
10. Barack Obama

2008-12-30 15:33:15
162.   underdog
Schottenheimer to Denver would be one of the more ironic coaching hires, given his history of collapse vs. the Broncos. It would also be moronic.

I mostly agree with Logik, I don't get scapegoating him, I would've fired Bob Slowik, but think Train is right, they probably want a real GM in charge, as they should, and Shanny probably wouldn't let go of that so this was the only way out. It's probably for the best, but still makes me a little bittersweet.

2008-12-30 15:36:11
163.   madmac
161 always #9
2008-12-30 15:36:46
164.   bhsportsguy
161
If 1 = 9
2 = 9
3 = 9
4 = 9
5 = 9
6 = 9
7 = 9
8 = 9
9 = 9
2008-12-30 15:37:44
165.   Howard Fox
161 I'd like to know how you could get a 3 digit number...
2008-12-30 15:38:53
166.   D4P
161
Charles Barkley should be on the list.
2008-12-30 15:41:58
167.   Bob Timmermann
165
Poor math skills.
2008-12-30 15:42:29
168.   MC Safety
My Pops played for Shanahan at NAU.

Does this mean Al Davis is done signing washed up Broncos?

2008-12-30 15:45:00
169.   D4P
I suppose the appropriate response to 161 would have been "You do the math"
2008-12-30 15:45:02
170.   mwhite06
as in perhaps Shanahan has never won without a QB named Elway...

Neither has any other coaches in the NFL (as head coaches anyway) except for Bill Bellichick, Tom Coughlin, Tony Dungy, Mike Holmgren and Jon Gruden. I'm rather suprised so many people think Shanahan should be fired considering (as Logikreader suggests) the Broncos can not find a better coach out there (except Cowher but he's not moving to Denver.) I find it laughable how every NFL team wants these young and inexperienced coordinators (see Spagnoula, Steve) who have only been coordinators for 2-3 seasons.

2008-12-30 15:53:22
171.   trainwreck
I would gladly take the young coordinators over the re-treads and losers the Raiders are interviewing.

Everyone is so beaten down, they actually want to keep Cable at this point.

2008-12-30 16:04:40
172.   madmac
171 would you be upset if they kept Cable. While he frustrated me with some of the conservative play calling at times, it was probably necessary. He seems to have the players support and seems to have the team going in the right direction. I think what the Raiders need more than anything is stability, and of course the obvious (Al moving on). Even if the coach isn't a genius, just the stability will get this team wins.
2008-12-30 16:07:03
173.   trainwreck
172
I would not like it, but frankly, it does not matter who our coach is.
2008-12-30 16:09:21
174.   trainwreck
All the players wanted Joe Bugel before, so I really do not care about that.
2008-12-30 16:13:44
175.   madmac
173 well that is likely true. I hate that the only way it seems the Raiders will be good again is if Al dies. Although it seemed like that before he hired Gruden. Guess that's why I've mostly not payed attention to the NFL anymore. Go Ducks!

174 true, but that never seemed like a good idea to me.

2008-12-30 16:15:08
176.   LogikReader
172

Is it safe to say the Raiders could have achieved the same 5 wins if Al had the full support of Lane Kiffin and just left him alone?

I know that would blow Al's mind, but I was convinced the Raiders had a decent running game and a fairly good pass defense. The way they played in the two games before Kiffin left was reasonably impressive.

2008-12-30 16:20:34
177.   trainwreck
176
If Al let Kiffin bring in his dad and let him pick the players he wanted, who knows where we would be. Probably a lot better off.

Then Al would make sure to get rid of Lane regardless, because he wants all the credit.

2008-12-30 16:28:38
178.   Marty
Denver may go after Cowherd? Awesome.
2008-12-30 16:29:01
179.   Howard Fox
yeah, colin cowherd
2008-12-30 16:54:01
180.   underdog
Maybe Al should make like Bowlen and fire the GM. That would take either a change in philosophy or a certain amount of multiple personality disorder.

The only thing I know is Mike Shanahan won't be considered.

2008-12-30 16:55:18
181.   underdog
Jason Marquis for Luis Vizcaino is close to happening.

Huh, Marquis in Coors Field. That doesn't sound like a good idea.

2008-12-30 16:57:59
182.   Jon Weisman
181 - What do you mean? Marquis could hit 30 homers there.
2008-12-30 16:59:35
183.   Ken Noe
As a Browns fan, I'll take Shanahan or the sainted Marty either one.
2008-12-30 17:01:45
184.   Marty
183 Awww...
2008-12-30 17:03:01
185.   underdog
182 Hah. I hadn't thought of that. That would make up for the 30 he'll give up.
2008-12-30 17:15:18
186.   bhsportsguy
178 How was Vegas?
2008-12-30 17:38:44
187.   Jon Weisman
Okay, we've been waiting 23 minutes for an answer.
2008-12-30 17:40:09
188.   Gen3Blue
Marquis for Vizcaino seems like a trade that means absolutely nothing--- unless one team is a starter or a reliever away from being good. Never mind, it probably doesn't mean even that.
2008-12-30 17:41:36
189.   trainwreck
This is just sad. USC players were quizzed by TMZ. Was not surprised by Uona Kavienga's answer, I can tell you that.

http://www.tmz.com/2008/12/30/usc-coach-drills-team-on-current-events/

2008-12-30 17:42:57
190.   silverwidow
Does anyone know how Jim Abbott managed to get 2 hits in his career? That would seem difficult in his case.
2008-12-30 17:50:26
191.   Jon Weisman
188 - Marquis Grissom for Jose Vizcaino? Surely that happened once already?

190 - Without looking it up, I have this vague notion that I saw one of those hits at Dodger Stadium. Now I'm going to look it up and see how wrong I am.

2008-12-30 17:51:20
192.   Jon Weisman
191 - Yep, I was trying to pull one over on myself.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=abbotji01&t=b

2008-12-30 17:52:49
193.   bhsportsguy
So which of the 20 or so combinations is Oregon wearing today?
2008-12-30 17:53:04
194.   ucladodger
189

There was a video on scout last year of Uona getting interviewed. It might be the most depressing thing I've ever seen. In the TMZ thing, i love the dude who just says "I don't know, i'm just a meat head."

2008-12-30 17:53:05
195.   Bob Timmermann
192
I guess one handed batters were Jon Lieber's weakness.
2008-12-30 17:53:36
196.   trainwreck
193
The one that can't play defense.

Or is that all of them?

2008-12-30 17:54:41
197.   trainwreck
194
Yeah, I heard him interviewed a few times. On Scout a couple times and once on FSN.

This is why I was not surprised to see him pop up on the video.

2008-12-30 17:56:23
198.   Bob Timmermann
Why worry about some USC football player's knowledge of current events. Greg Brock and I were worried about DT's cumulative lack of knowledge about the Federalist period.
2008-12-30 18:03:09
199.   Bob Timmermann
Oregon is in mostly black unis with green shoulders. The Ducks are wearing the dark green helmets.

On the typical Oregon hideous scale of 1-100 (100 being most hideous), I would give it a 60.

2008-12-30 19:01:59
200.   Tripon
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodgers31-2008dec31,0,7208810.story

Boras contacts Manny.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-12-30 19:09:04
201.   Tripon
Boras contacts the Dodgers too about Manny.
2008-12-30 19:11:02
202.   Gen3Blue
Boras said " -------
never mind.
2008-12-30 19:18:22
203.   Ken Noe
Looks like that clever Nedster stimulated the response he wanted.
2008-12-30 19:23:00
204.   Louis in SF
So the Mets offer Lowe 3 years for 36 million. Wonder if it would make any difference or at least help their chances with Manny if they offered Lowe a one or 2 year contract at 15million per year to push the Mets or perhaps make Lowe and the Dodgers reconsider each other.
2008-12-30 19:27:42
205.   D4P
Looks like that clever Nedster stimulated the response he wanted

The Dodgers have handled the Manny situation very well up to this point.

2008-12-30 19:33:56
206.   Tripon
Dear Mike Dunleavy. You suck as a coach.
2008-12-30 19:42:18
207.   Bob Timmermann
Oregon's three touchdown "drives" have been 1, 2, and 1 play long.
2008-12-30 19:43:55
208.   Dodgers49
Top 10 reasons to watch MLB Network

http://tinyurl.com/aypmdp

2008-12-30 19:46:52
209.   MSarg29
NY Times reports the Mets have offered Lowe a 3yr $36million contract.
2008-12-30 19:52:00
210.   68elcamino427
175
Hilarious - LOL!

The thing that makes it so funny is that it's the truth.

2008-12-30 19:54:25
211.   DBrim
Forcing your own fumble may not be a winning strategy.
2008-12-30 20:04:22
212.   Marty
I just discovered I get MLB network on my cable system. I'll have to check it out.
2008-12-30 20:15:13
213.   alex 7
Jon, one too many 8s in your opening paragraph line:

Gibson homered off 19888 Cy Young runner-up Danny Jackson

Raiders should keep Cable because:

- no one known to be a better head coach will come here.
- team played hard for him.
- Offense talent on team is young and blossoming, making continuity with the staff important (unless the staff is horrible, but that's not the case here).
- O-Line played great once interim o-line coach bolted to Tennessee and Cable took on that job again.

So long as Ryan leaves, this should be an 8-win team.

2008-12-30 20:19:16
214.   trainwreck
213
Well the o-line was better because Kwame Harris was benched. Still need to get another tackle and Carlisle will leave as free agent.
2008-12-30 20:24:54
215.   68elcamino427
Oregon performing with pride - love it.
2008-12-30 20:27:33
216.   natepurcell
Manny and Pettitte and it will be a good offseason.
2008-12-30 20:53:19
217.   Bob Timmermann
I would have a very hard time rooting for a Dodgers team with Andy Pettitte on it. It's not about the HGH. He just has always bugged me. He looks like he was a permanently whining expression on his face.
2008-12-30 20:53:31
218.   alex 7
Yeah, Henderson earned that starting spot. The entire line though played better the final 3 games (once the other coach left) and the first 4 games (before Cable took over).

The tough position to evaluate is DT. Could use an upgrade, but there already is depth (though average), and Kelly is expected to improve with a full football off-season undevoted to rehab time.

1st round RT, 2nd round LB? Or flip flop because you can find zone-blocking right tackles in the 2nd round. How good is Maualuga? Worth the 7th pick?

2008-12-30 20:56:25
219.   Daniel Zappala
Nice win for Oregon.
2008-12-30 21:01:56
220.   Jon Weisman
217 - With Pettitte and Mussina on the Yankees for so long, I do suspect you were not a fan of that team.
2008-12-30 21:02:54
221.   trainwreck
218
Have to take best player available. Also depends on what we do in free agency and trades.
2008-12-30 21:03:38
222.   Bob Timmermann
And I saw Andy Pettitte's first Yankee start in person.

http://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/765174.html

2008-12-30 21:08:47
223.   trainwreck
221
I would expect our targets in first would be Crabtree, Oher, Orakpo, and maybe Johnson, just because Al will love his athleticism.
2008-12-30 21:10:50
224.   Tripon
Al Davis will pick Tim Tebow, just to play head games with JaMarcus Russell.
2008-12-30 21:33:41
225.   delias man
Clippers stink. I could have made that shot.
2008-12-30 21:34:50
226.   delias man
I predict the lions take crabtree.
2008-12-30 21:39:55
227.   Benjamin Miracord
40 Sandy Koufax: turned 73 today.
2008-12-30 21:43:36
228.   Jon Weisman
Two new posts up top.
2008-12-30 21:49:20
229.   Daniel Zappala
When is the last time a 10-0 Pac-10 team with a history of a strong basketball program failed to crack the Top 25?
2008-12-30 21:51:40
230.   caseybarker
It'd be nice if the Raiders could draft a couple of receivers who can catch the ball.

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