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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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Martin, Broxton Sign
2009-01-20 10:16
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Russell Martin has signed a 2009 contract for $3.9 million and Jonathan Broxton for $1.825 million plus incentives, according to Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise.

Update: If an arbitration hearing takes place for Andre Ethier, he will either come away with $2.65 million or $3.75 million for 2009, reports Tony Jackson of the Daily News. But expect a settlement before then.

Comments (206)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2009-01-20 10:19:47
1.   D4P
Huge bargains for the Dodgers. Martin was worth over $21 million last year, and Broxton almost $12.
2009-01-20 10:22:13
2.   Terry A
Just $12?
2009-01-20 10:23:03
3.   fiddlestick
LAT'd--

My parents are Diamondbacks partial season ticket holders for 3 years. They require handicap accessible seating, and they have 3rd deck seats about the home dugout.

They were informed at renewal time that if they weren't willing to extend to larger package of games, they'd face the risk of losing their seats to someone else. They paid their deposit and hoped for the best.

They got the call last week that indeed the seats were sold. They were offered seats behind homeplate (too expensive) or down the line by the foul pole (bad seats), and they could essentially take it or leave it. I don't agree with the choices they were given, since it seems to me that in this economy, you'd want to keep every paying customer you have and if there aren't enough wheelchair seats to meet the demand, maybe they should look at that.

At any rate, I emailed Derrick Hall and within an hour he responded. Obviously there wasn't a resolution, but he said they'd work to find comparable seats and that he didn't want to lose them.

Has anyone ever emailed Frank McCourt, does he respond to customer issues?

2009-01-20 10:24:18
4.   Bob Timmermann
3
The McCourts would staff it out to Charles Steinberg.
2009-01-20 10:26:17
5.   delias man
3 An assistant of his promptly called me about 2 years ago when I complained about not getting Stadium Club passes with my season tickets. Gave me a free pass for the entire year. Which I only used twice.
2009-01-20 10:28:16
6.   Eric Stephen
To berkowit28:

Most likely the incentives for Broxton are for games finished. Almost all the incentive clauses in MLB contracts are playing or service time related, either for games, PA, IP, starts, GF, days on roster, etc.

2009-01-20 10:31:28
7.   D4P
games, PA, IP, starts, GF, days on roster, etc.

i.e. mostly things that Management ultimately controls, not the player.

2009-01-20 10:31:54
8.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
I've been drafting letters every off season since 2000 preaching to the Maloofs to change the uniforms/logo of my other favorite team, the Sacramento Kings. So far, in 8 years of letters, I recieved one automated generated response from the Kings thanking me for my support for the team.

After today's historic events, changing uniforms seems kind of petty, but purple uniforms and Sacramento go about as good together as Oil and Water.

Thank goodness the Dodgers would never change thier timeless uniforms (minus the Think Blue days of the Fox Regime)

2009-01-20 10:32:20
9.   Eric Stephen
5
Gave me a free pass for the entire year. Which I only used twice

Thanks for the call. :)

2009-01-20 10:33:07
10.   LU Dodger
Eric mentioned in the last thread that he hoped the contract for Martin would be moot by spring training with a long-term deal.

I too, share this sentiment. Is this far-fetched? Thoughts on a long-term deal this year?

2009-01-20 10:37:04
11.   Eric Stephen
10
It appears both sides are interested. Today just happened to be the day to exchange salary figures for arbitration, so that is a natural point for the two sides to strike a deal (usually near the midpoint) just to get it done, avoid arbitration, and have one less thing to worry about.

Even if Ethier doesn't sign today, the two sides will have 2 weeks or so before the arbitration hearings begin to strike a deal.

In the case of Martin, this secures him at a record salary for a catcher for 2009, so even if a long-term deal doesn't get worked out he's in good shape. With Martin's new agent, they seem more willing to commit long term to the Dodgers.

2009-01-20 10:38:13
12.   delias man
9 There is always this year.
2009-01-20 10:50:16
13.   Eric Stephen
With all the arbitration-eligible signings this year (well, except maybe Bobby Jenks), Ryan Howard's $10m win last year as a Super Two is looking more and more like an outlier.
2009-01-20 10:52:58
14.   SG6
I read this letter in the LA Times and it touched me. Talk about corporate responsiveness - McCourts could learn from Mr. Jobs:

"I sent a cranky letter to Apple when my 24-inch iMac stopped working. I asked if there was an alternative to my schlepping it to an Apple store since I was recovering from a liver transplant.

Imagine my surprise when I received a phone call from the personal assistant of the billionaire CEO of Apple, Steve Jobs.

When does that ever happen? She sent a repair person to my apartment a few days later, and my iMac works like it is brand new.

Jobs is a class act. It bothers me that people seem more concerned with the price of their Apple stock than the health of its genius creator.

Michael Gabriel

Los Angeles"

2009-01-20 10:53:11
15.   Tripon
13 Its going to be even more of an outlier when Ryan Howard and the Phillies go to an arbitration hearing again.

What would Ryan Howard get in the open market?

2009-01-20 10:55:04
16.   Eric Stephen
15
The open market is completely irrelevant though. Everyone knows players with less than 6 years service time are cheaper than those with more service time.
2009-01-20 10:57:15
17.   Eric Stephen
15
The crushing part of the loss for the Phillies (who shouldn't have hired Tal Smith to present their case) was that his salaries for years 4-6 are partially a function of his year 3 salary. The $10m salary will grow exponentially from 2009-2011, far beyond merely the difference of $3m last year.
2009-01-20 10:57:29
18.   Tripon
16 Except Ryan Howard's case may be a rare time where a player is going to get paid more than what he could get from free agency.
2009-01-20 11:00:32
19.   regfairfield
1 It's easy to be a bargain when you're comparing first year arb to free agents.
2009-01-20 11:04:54
20.   D4P
19
Yes, but it doesn't have to be that way. There's no apparent reason why teams should continually overpay free agents relative to their actual value.
2009-01-20 11:07:21
21.   regfairfield
If players were always paid what they were worth, the Yankees would win every year.
2009-01-20 11:07:27
22.   Eric Stephen
20
Even if free agents earned their "actual value," they would still not be as much of a bargain as someone still under club control (and not on the open market).
2009-01-20 11:12:56
23.   kinbote
What are the tea leaves saying about Garland & Wolf? It seems each has rejected an offer from the D-backs. We have to be close to signing one of the two, correct? Jon did promise some activity after the holiday and inauguration . . .
2009-01-20 11:14:15
24.   Jon Weisman
23 - I didn't mean in the first hour.
2009-01-20 11:15:17
25.   Eric Stephen
23
From most reports I have seen, the D-Backs only have like $4 or $5 million to spend before reaching their budget limit. I don't think their offers to Garland or Wolf exceeded $5m.
2009-01-20 11:19:57
26.   Tripon
25 Randy Johnson would have settled with the D'Backs for $5 million. Are the D'backs just that poorly managed at the moment?
2009-01-20 11:20:05
27.   kinbote
25 I think the Mets are part of what's holding up the pitching market. Everybody knows they will be adding a starter or two (Sheets, Ollie, Wolf, Garland?) so I imagine our fates are intertwined.
2009-01-20 11:20:38
28.   D4P
"One journeyman reliever, for instance, turned down a $2 million offer, saying he would retire before taking that kind of money." Many veterans will choose between swallowing their pride and retiring this spring.

Awesome.

2009-01-20 11:21:55
29.   Eric Stephen
Where is that from?
2009-01-20 11:23:15
30.   Jon Weisman
24 - Although it's not as if Martin and Broxton don't qualify as "activity."
2009-01-20 11:23:18
31.   D4P
One of the MLB Rumors stories.
2009-01-20 11:25:03
32.   Eric Stephen
Buster Olney speculates that Pedro Martinez could end up in Arizona. I don't know if I'm ready to deal psychologically with the thought of Pedro knocking the Dodgers out of the playoffs.
2009-01-20 11:25:45
33.   Tripon
28 That just means that more younger players are going to get a chance to play.
2009-01-20 11:29:27
34.   Bluebleeder87
32 I don't know if I'm ready to deal psychologically with the thought of Pedro knocking the Dodgers out of the playoffs.

I'm just here to tell you Eric that your in the right place.

2009-01-20 11:30:12
35.   Tripon
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/ask-ba/2009/267453.html

Does the Dodgers' Ivan DeJesus Jr. profile better as a shortstop or second baseman at the major league level? What could prevent him from being an everyday shortstop: his glove, arm or instincts? Also, do you see him as a potential leadoff man, if he keeps improving his hitting and plate discipline?

Baseball America answers that question.

2009-01-20 11:35:19
36.   Bluebleeder87
Eric, is it a win-win for both sides or does this play better for the Dodgers? I'm thinking it's a good deal all around simply cause Martin gets a little more money than he would have & the Dodgers are already saving a boat load cause he's still under there control.

que piensas tu?

2009-01-20 11:40:39
37.   Eric Stephen
36
If they sign Martin now to a deal through only his 3 arbitration seasons (2009-2011) the club probably saves maybe $1-2 million.

The real potential for savings comes with buying out a free agent year or two. Martin gets a "set for life" level of security (although one could argue $3.9 million could last an awfully long time with proper planning) and the Dodgers could save by paying under market value. Of course, the huge risk for the club is Martin getting hurt, but that's the cost of potentially saving the money.

2009-01-20 11:41:42
38.   Tripon
37 Not if Martin commits Operation Shutdown, and picks up a coke habit.
2009-01-20 11:43:20
39.   Eric Stephen
37
I will add that the if Martin gets hurt the Dodgers are screwed anyway. He's not someone easily replaced.
2009-01-20 11:44:17
40.   Eric Stephen
38
and picks up a coke habit

I heard Martin's more of an RC Cola guy.

2009-01-20 11:48:18
41.   Tripon
40 Actually, Martin is a fan of Underground MUUD coffee.

http://blogs.pe.com/prosports/2009/01/dodgers-fact-russell-martin-do.html

Or he's doing for the endorsement.

2009-01-20 11:50:36
42.   D4P
RC Cola

AKA "Canadian Coke"

2009-01-20 11:51:35
43.   Eric Stephen
41
It's just a gateway drug.
2009-01-20 12:00:13
44.   Tripon
Dylan Hernandez has three new ones: Xavier Nady ($6.55MM), Jonathan Papelbon ($6.25MM), and Edwin Jackson ($2.2MM plus $200K in incentives).

-via the L.A. Times blog

2009-01-20 12:01:22
45.   Tripon
Question, can arbitration hearings figures include incentive clauses?
2009-01-20 12:03:03
46.   Eric Stephen
45
Nope. Just straight salary.
2009-01-20 12:04:14
47.   Eric Stephen
TJ has Broxton's incentives:

$50k for each of 45, 50, 55 and 60 games finished

Potential for a total of $2.025m

2009-01-20 12:05:37
48.   Tripon
46 Guess that's one reason why to settle early.
2009-01-20 12:09:43
49.   D4P
Any fans of the band "Freezepop" out there? I just discovered them, and they're a lot of fun.
2009-01-20 12:15:13
50.   Eric Stephen
Number of Dodgers to reach GF milestones since 1987 (The Eck Era):

45 GF: 12 Dodgers
50 GF: 10
55 GF: 8
60 GF: 4

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/HG7N

Broxton himself had 32 games finished last season, 27 of which came after he became closer in mid-July.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2009-01-20 12:19:57
51.   Daniel Zappala
49 Heard them on an NPR radio a week or so ago. Not my thing.
2009-01-20 12:21:09
52.   D4P
51
They're kind of an 80s synth throwback. You don't hear music like that anymore. Some would say that's a good thing...
2009-01-20 12:26:21
53.   silverwidow
I read somewhere that Repko's 2005 option was voided because it didn't last 20 days.

So maybe he does have two left...

2009-01-20 12:44:00
54.   Daniel Zappala
52 I just don't think they're very good at what they do.
2009-01-20 12:46:48
55.   D4P
54
Maybe not. I'm listening to their 2004 album, which is supposedly their best.

More generally, you like that genre of music, right?

2009-01-20 12:54:34
56.   silverwidow
The Pirates have pick 48a (which is compensation for not signing last year's 2nd rounder, #48 overall). My question is whether they're guaranteed that slot no matter what, or does it depend on the supplemental round?

It would seem odd if that pick is mixed in with this year's FA comps.

2009-01-20 12:57:38
57.   Daniel Zappala
55 Yes, I do, but when I need a fix, I tend to retreat to my boxes of LPs.
2009-01-20 13:01:59
58.   regfairfield
There's a couple Freezepop songs they jazzed up for Guitar Hero that are pretty good, but for the most part the songs are...plinky, and this is coming from someone that loves Fischerspooner and Ladytron.
2009-01-20 13:04:13
59.   D4P
I'm now listening to Freezepop sing the "Jem" theme song. Didn't we just talk about that the other day? Seems like Lexinthedena's cousin was involved in something Jem-related...
2009-01-20 13:10:12
60.   El Lay Dave
53 Two paragraphs in the CBA that cross-reference each other:

If a Player is optionally assigned for a total of less than 20 days in one championship season, such optional assignment(s) shall not count as an optional assignment in connection with the limitation upon optional assignments provided for in Major League Rule 11(c). (See Article XXI(B).)

If a Player is optionally assigned for a total of less than 20 days in one championship season, the Player shall be credited with Major League service during the period of such optional assignment(s). (See Article XIX(E).)

So you may be right. Repko only played 8 games in the minors in 2005 and 9 in 2006, but I don't know how long his option assignments were.

2009-01-20 13:14:47
61.   trainwreck
59
His cousin is Jem the actual singer, while Jem is one hot cartoon character.
2009-01-20 13:15:09
62.   trainwreck
That should be "Jem".
2009-01-20 13:15:56
63.   silverwidow
60 I know 2006 for him was a rehab assignment only.

Not sure why we're spending this much time on Jason Repko. :)

2009-01-20 13:19:35
64.   El Lay Dave
63 Sent down 5/25/05, recalled 6/3/05. So no option used that year either.

Academic exercise. Just like, who was constitutionally the president once noon passed and before Obama took the oath.

2009-01-20 13:24:16
65.   Bob Timmermann
64
Academic exercise. Just like, who was constitutionally the president once noon passed and before Obama took the oath.

David Atchison!

2009-01-20 13:32:48
66.   fanerman
65 Fascinating stuff.
2009-01-20 13:33:58
67.   Bob Timmermann
I like making people work.
2009-01-20 13:34:22
68.   El Lay Dave
So the full conclusion for Repko is:

2005 - minors stint too short to use up an option year
2006 - full year in majors, except rehab
2007 - full year in majors on the DL (earned arbitration rights)
2008 - most of year in minors, used an option year.
2009 - second year of arbitration

2009-01-20 13:35:17
69.   Andrew Shimmin
65- So there really were 44!
2009-01-20 13:35:24
70.   SG6
65 - the commentators on CNN said that Obama was president once noon passed, even though he hadn't taken the oath yet.
2009-01-20 13:40:27
71.   Kevin Lewis
I just heard a Jem song on slacker.com today. Lex, your cousin is good looking.
2009-01-20 13:43:38
72.   Eric Stephen
56
The Pirates have pick 48a (which is compensation for not signing last year's 2nd rounder, #48 overall). My question is whether they're guaranteed that slot no matter what, or does it depend on the supplemental round?

I think the Pirates get pick 48a (or really #49) no matter where it is in the draft. Baseball America usually updates the draft order during their weekly "Ask BA" columns, and the Pirates have been sitting at 49 throughout the offseason even as the compensation picks mount.

All that means for the Dodgers is that their 2nd round pick from Atlanta will be one pick later. The range for that 2nd round pick is from 50 to 63, depending on the number of Type A/B's remaining that sign with other teams.

2009-01-20 13:47:30
73.   Brent Knapp
Ryan Howard has asked for 18 million. Whats the rationale for that big of a raise? I don't mean from his perspective. But why do players make so much more in each year of arbitration. Is a 30 year old Ryan Howard going to be 80% better than a 29 year old Ryan Howard?
2009-01-20 13:49:05
74.   kinbote
73 I guess leading the league in HR & RBI can go to a guy's head.
2009-01-20 13:49:06
75.   Brent Knapp
73 I should say 28 year old and 29 year old.
2009-01-20 13:49:24
76.   68elcamino427
Tony "Ab"reu

Com'in to town at 195?

2009-01-20 13:51:09
77.   Eric Stephen
73
Howard better settle, because he's going to lose if it goes to arbitration (unless Philly hires Tal Smith to present their case again).

The Phillies offered $14m. Howard could have won if he asked for something like $16m, but no way he gets an 80% raise after already obliterating the scale last year.

2009-01-20 13:51:48
78.   JoeyP
73- If Todd Helton can make around that much, I guess Ryan Howard believes he should as well.
2009-01-20 13:53:40
79.   Eric Stephen
73
For the most part, players in arb years earn less than their market value. They are coming from a salary of essentially minimum and have 3-4 years to gradually reach somewhere closer to market value.

I think Andrew (regfairfield) looked at this last year and found arb raises tend to be somewhere around 50% each year.

Which is why I think Philly ($14m) will win over Howard ($18m) if it goes to a hearing.

2009-01-20 13:55:32
80.   bhsportsguy
It may turn out that not having a ticket which required standing in long lines for security screens, may have been for the best.

Though we had no view of the capital, we watched the proceedings from a jumbo screen right in front of the WWII Memorial, which is behind the Washington Monument in the mall.

Appreciate Bob's concern but the restroom situation was fine for us.

It took almost 2 hours to get to where we watched the ceromony but only a little over an hour to get back, mainly because we were able to walk back on the freeway.

Sam liked that almost as much as the ceromony.

2009-01-20 13:56:11
81.   Eric Stephen
78
Helton's salary after 3 years of service time was $4.95m in 2001.
2009-01-20 14:00:16
82.   Tripon
There's a perverse part of me that wishes that Ryan Howard wins his arbitration case since it will compound the mistake the Phillies made a year ago.
2009-01-20 14:03:44
83.   kinbote
82 If he gets too expensive they can trade him for Thome.
2009-01-20 14:07:22
84.   Tripon
83 hah.

Well, it doesn't matter until the Phillies actually lose a useful player because of the size of Howard's contract. The Phillies will likely have to let Brett Meyers go at the end of the season and let Ryan Howard eat him or something. I mean, eat the savings from his contract for his next arbitration salary figure.

2009-01-20 14:12:56
85.   Alex41592
We've got Ethier's numbers.

"He is seeking $3.75 million, while the club is offering $2.65 million."

http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/2009/01/ethiers-arbitra.html

2009-01-20 14:14:51
86.   D4P
85
Make it $3.5...!
2009-01-20 14:15:34
87.   Eric Stephen
85
3.5 is trying to get a raise to 3.75.
2009-01-20 14:15:53
88.   natepurcell
86 that would be fitting!
2009-01-20 14:15:54
89.   Eric Stephen
D4P is quicker to the trigger!
2009-01-20 14:26:19
90.   Rolex
Ethier would win arbitration easily IMO, the Dodgers would be smart to settle towards his #.
2009-01-20 14:27:56
91.   kinbote
Here's a legitimate question: When is the last time the Dodgers signed a homegrown player to a multiyear contract?
2009-01-20 14:29:27
92.   natepurcell
91 Gagne!
2009-01-20 14:30:43
93.   Rolex
91
Dreifort?
2009-01-20 14:32:39
94.   Eric Stephen
I'm watching Prime 9 right now, about the 9 greatest pitching seasons in history (well, 1901-2008).

At the beginning of the show, they mentioned they were using ERA+, to adjust ERA for park and league. Progress, people!

2009-01-20 14:32:45
95.   kinbote
92 Wow. And he got the Piazza special, right?: his last two arbitration years. What about a three year deal or a contract covering a player's post-arbitration years?
2009-01-20 14:33:13
96.   Eric Stephen
90
I think Ethier will lose if he goes to a hearing. TBLA post coming soon.
2009-01-20 14:33:14
97.   Daniel Zappala
80 Walking back on the freeway sounds really cool. Glad you had a good time.
2009-01-20 14:33:40
98.   Daniel Zappala
Why is the arbitrator constrained to choosing either the Phil's offer or Howard's offer? Why can't he or she split the middle?
2009-01-20 14:34:30
99.   Eric Stephen
91
Karros I believe was the last to sign a contract covering his post-arb years.

I'm counting Dreifort as a resign as a FA.

2009-01-20 14:34:55
100.   Eric Stephen
98
Nature of the beast, per the collective bargaining agreement.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2009-01-20 14:35:04
101.   fanerman
98 It's just how arbitration works.
2009-01-20 14:36:10
102.   Daniel Zappala
$18 million / $14 million = 1.2857, which is a ratio that is below that of all the other figures listed on MLBTR.
2009-01-20 14:37:16
103.   Icaros
98

Not sure, but I bet there'd be a lot more cases that make it to arbitration if they were able to do that.

The current system seems to encourage the team and player (agent) to work things out on their own.

2009-01-20 14:37:19
104.   Daniel Zappala
100 , 101 OK, but it seems like a silly rule.
2009-01-20 14:42:17
105.   Jon Weisman
Since I had Ethier down for $2,500,000 for 2009, I'm going to say that the Dodgers would prevail in the arbitration hearing, rather than admit I underestimated what he would get.
2009-01-20 14:43:22
106.   fanerman
104 I think in legal disputes it's the same way. The arbiter can only choose between one side or the other.

As I understand it, a mediator would try to get the two sides to meet in the middle somewhere.

I just read some liability booklet for work.

2009-01-20 14:44:37
107.   Tripon
Andre Ethier will get a $3 million contract. Thus proving that he's only worth 1/3 of Juan Pierre.
2009-01-20 14:46:21
108.   Jon Weisman
The 1909 Taft inauguration.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymirror/2009/01/president-takes.html

2009-01-20 14:47:00
109.   bhsportsguy
106 Actually, very few cases are resolved under binding arbitration since neither side really wants to give up that much. Often they use mediaiton which is more like what others described, the mediator tries to point out each other side's weakpoints to get them to settle.
2009-01-20 14:48:50
110.   fanerman
109 Right. The litigation booklet mentioned that. But arbitration is an option.
2009-01-20 14:54:38
111.   fiddlestick
For all the stuff Ned Colletti gets for similar statements, who do you think said this?

"Eckstein doesn't need much of an introduction. He has spent the past eight seasons in the big leagues, playing shortstop mostly with the Angels and Cardinals. Over those years he compiled a .284/.351/.361 line (including two World Series rings) while establishing his reputation as a winning player. David is a true grinder who is a very tough out and does all the little things well - a great example for our younger players."

2009-01-20 14:56:08
112.   fanerman
DePo, right D4P?
2009-01-20 14:57:15
113.   D4P
112
Yes. I excerpted 111 here the other day, and told Paul to put down the Koolaid.
2009-01-20 15:01:09
114.   Daniel Zappala
You are the GM for a major league baseball team. One of your jobs is to juggle the resources the owner has given you for the payroll of the team and sign the best combination of players possible. In order to maximize your use of the money on other positions, you decide your best option for 2B is to sign a player who is below average, but will not cost a lot. This will presumably allow you to field a better overall team because the money you save here can be spent elsewhere.

What do you say publicly when asked about this below average player?

I submit that every GM has to say what DePodesta said about Eckstein.

2009-01-20 15:02:50
115.   Kevin Lewis
Is it possible that Martin's 3.9 million will make it difficult for Ethier to get what he asked for?
2009-01-20 15:05:39
116.   mwhite06
Why is the arbitrator constrained to choosing either the Phil's offer or Howard's offer? Why can't he or she split the middle?

I believe the intention was so that both parties would be inclined to submit offers close to the "true value" of a player. Since the arbiter is bound to take one of the two offers, it would be unwise for either side to get too carried away on their position. Therefore in theory, this drives both sides to submit reasonable proposals.

2009-01-20 15:05:45
117.   fiddlestick
I think it's a good thing to value both the measureable and the intangible. Not necessarily in equal percentages.
2009-01-20 15:06:35
118.   D4P
114
Except that Eckstein isn't necessarily below average (other than in size, of course). He has some SABR-friendly qualities that someone like Depo could emphasize, instead of reciting the junk about grinding and little things.
2009-01-20 15:11:18
119.   natepurcell
SABR-friendly qualities

He goes to conventions about baseball history?

2009-01-20 15:13:15
120.   Eric Stephen
90
Ethier would win arbitration easily IMO, the Dodgers would be smart to settle towards his #

Why Ethier will lose if the case goes to arbitration (which I don't think it will):

http://tinyurl.com/8wt3sk

Basically, the $2.65m number makes Either the highest paid amongst his similar OF so the $3.75m is simply too high.

2009-01-20 15:14:29
121.   Tripon
120 If only Andre Ethier was a fat, slugging first baseman who has a crazy old dad who believes you're worth much more than you really are.
2009-01-20 15:14:56
122.   Eric Stephen
115
Is it possible that Martin's 3.9 million will make it difficult for Ethier to get what he asked for?

In the sense that $3.75m would be too close to $3.9m and Either isn't as valuable as Martin? That's a valid thought I think.

2009-01-20 15:15:21
123.   D4P
119
I can only assume that's why Bob likes him so much.
2009-01-20 15:17:23
124.   Kevin Lewis
122

Yea, I was thinking it could be something the Dodgers would point to in arb.

2009-01-20 15:18:44
125.   Kevin Lewis
Did someone post the other day that Sheets was looking for 2/18 with incentives?
2009-01-20 15:21:31
126.   fanerman
122 Kim "The Buzzsaw" Ng?
2009-01-20 15:22:50
127.   Eric Stephen
125
Mets Blog had this yesterday, basically rehashing what Tom Verducci said on MLB Network:

http://tinyurl.com/9mxjjj

2009-01-20 15:23:10
128.   Bob Timmermann
David Eckstein is working on a collection of biographies of famous minor league baseball players born in Alberta.

That would make him SABR-friendly.

2009-01-20 15:24:37
129.   fiddlestick
Is this the beginning of a true market shift where young players will start earning salaries more commensurate with their true value through arbitration while more guys past their primes stop getting paid for what they did 2 or 3 years or teams ago?
2009-01-20 15:24:56
130.   Eric Stephen
126
I have confidence in her either getting a contract done with Ethier before a hearing, or beating Ethier in a hearing should it go that far.

If she can beat Eric Gagne after the greatest relief season ever, she can do anything! :)

2009-01-20 15:25:54
131.   trainwreck
130
Except prevent Ned from being Ned evidently.
2009-01-20 15:26:17
132.   Eric Stephen
129
I think it's more like a shift where great players still get paid premium prices, but the middling players won't get any big deals.
2009-01-20 15:28:01
133.   Kevin Lewis
127

I would be okay with a contract like that

2009-01-20 15:29:16
134.   Andrew Shimmin
An arb hearing is a lose/lose situation for Colletti, unless Ng really has no chance of ever getting his job.
2009-01-20 15:29:32
135.   Eric Stephen
133
Me too. I'd be more anxious to sign that deal than the guys in the Southwest commercial trying to finalize a boardroom deal before catching a flight.
2009-01-20 15:32:41
136.   Marty
Das, you mentioned in this or another thread about being in a newsroom. Do you work at the Inky?
2009-01-20 15:32:52
137.   fiddlestick
Someone just called my mom from the Dbacks sales dept. Had a copy of my email and the letter she'd mailed. Talked to her about what kind of package she wants and what she can afford and asked her to give them a day or two, but that they're working very hard to keep her as a customer. That's pretty darned cool of them. Now I know why Mr. Shimmin is such a big fan.

In other Dbacks news, they fired their mascot who it turns out got pulled over doing 95 on the highway with a BAC almost twice the legal limit and told the cops he'd smoked a bunch of weed earlier in the day. The best part though is that the costume was in the back of his Scion.

2009-01-20 15:34:29
138.   Eric Stephen
137
I gotta say, I'm pretty happy the Dodgers don't have a mascot.
2009-01-20 15:35:31
139.   natepurcell
137

So their is an open job vacancy...hmmm downtown phx isn't too far from Scottsdale...

2009-01-20 15:35:45
140.   natepurcell
there**!!!!!
2009-01-20 15:37:09
141.   fiddlestick
You live in Scottsdale too? Right on.
2009-01-20 15:38:05
142.   Andrew Shimmin
Scions can do 90? Everything I learned about the laws of physics was a lie.
2009-01-20 15:38:09
143.   fiddlestick
138 Didn't they use a cartoon trolley for some marketing thing recently?

Imagine that thing blown up, plush, and firing a T-shirt cannon. Ick.

2009-01-20 15:38:12
144.   natepurcell
141

Yah in Old Town...since ummm, end of July. Weekends are fun.

2009-01-20 15:38:18
145.   silverwidow
Eric Threets, one of our NRIs, once was clocked at 104 mph (according to BA).
2009-01-20 15:42:18
146.   Eric Stephen
I am now watching one of the greatest runs in "Card Sharks" history.
2009-01-20 15:42:38
147.   Marty
Fastest speed I've done while a passenger is 150 (Ferrari). Fastest I've driven is 130 (Mazda RX2).
2009-01-20 15:45:55
148.   Kevin Lewis
139

It is still a dream of mine to be one of the ball boys on the side on the field at Dodger stadium.

2009-01-20 15:52:02
149.   Andrew Shimmin
My Volkswagen could do one-fifty if the cliff I drove it off were high enough.
2009-01-20 15:52:50
150.   Jon Weisman
147 - I hit 112 in my Scirocco. Do we get handicaps, like in golf?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2009-01-20 15:54:12
151.   KG16
I've got to about 110 in my '99 mustang, in my youth and inexperience.
2009-01-20 15:55:25
152.   fanerman
I'm afraid of cars. I don't think I've ever driven fast enough to travel back through time.
2009-01-20 16:00:08
153.   fiddlestick
144 You're either being facetious or you like noise.
2009-01-20 16:00:31
154.   Marty
150 Only if you drive a Golf.
2009-01-20 16:03:39
155.   underdog
All I know is if he was driving a Scion, and did 90, it wasn't the kind of Scion I've driven, via City Car Share -- the one that looks like a box with wheels can't get past 70 in my experience. Might have been one of the smaller, presumably speedier ones. But the box has plenty of room for a mascot costume in the trunk.
2009-01-20 16:04:59
156.   Tripon
The xB got a re-design. Now it looks like a bus on steroids.
2009-01-20 16:05:11
157.   Kevin Lewis
The Scion TC could easily hit that speed
2009-01-20 16:05:57
158.   underdog
I think I drove the Scion PU.
2009-01-20 16:06:59
159.   underdog
Cardboard Gods is always worth a read but today's new one is especially fun for Dodger fans.
2009-01-20 16:09:03
160.   underdog
Er, well, it's not really about Bill Russell per se, but I liked it, and had that exact same baseball card in my collection, even though it was obtained some years after that card was first printed. (I first started collecting around 1981.)
2009-01-20 16:09:47
161.   Tripon
The scion tC, xA, xD could all hit 90. The new redesign of the xB probably could too.
2009-01-20 16:09:50
162.   trainwreck
159
The Broncos could not resist hiring someone from the Raiders staff.
2009-01-20 16:12:59
163.   Andrew Shimmin
161- (Wind) resistance is futile!
2009-01-20 16:15:06
164.   Tripon
Still, I like the new Matrix more than any of the new scion models.
2009-01-20 16:18:39
165.   KG16
160 - yeah, just left a comment over there. I don't think I had that card though, I do remember a later Bill Russell card in my collection, I think.
2009-01-20 16:19:32
166.   DaDoughboy
Totally off topic (which seems to happen from time to time on DT), but if any of you are Chris Farley fans, I highly suggest grabbing his bio "The Chris Farley Show". It's written by his brother and a contains hundreds of interviews from family, friends, comedians, etc. Heartbreakingly awesome.

(Just finished it yesterday, and talk of doing 90 in a Scion reminded me of the scene in "Black Sheep" where Farley and David Spade get pulled over for speeding)

2009-01-20 16:23:16
167.   Tripon
Here's one I was following partly because I knew how absurd its going to be.

Francoeur is asking the Braves for $3.95 million. The club has offered the 25-year-old right fielder a salary of $2.8 million.

So Francoeur wants to be paid more than Ethier. Albeit as a player entering his 4th year, with 3 and a half years of playing time vs. Ethier's super two status with 2 and a half years of playing time.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090120&content_id=3751751&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

2009-01-20 16:23:44
168.   goofus
Considering the other signings reported lately, Ethier should definitely wait them out to a decision. Also, in his case, the half of difference ($550,000 minus agent fees, taxes, etc) make it a good gamble to go for all of it.
2009-01-20 16:24:05
169.   KG16
which is a better car/speeding scene Black Sheep or Planes Trains & Automobiles?

I tend to lead towards PT&A

2009-01-20 16:26:08
170.   underdog
162 Who? I saw that they are hiring the Chargers' DL coach, which seemed like a nice little coup.
2009-01-20 16:30:02
171.   Kevin Lewis
169

"You're going the wrong way!"

2009-01-20 16:30:35
172.   trainwreck
170
Don Martindale, our ex-linebackers coach. He was also our possible DC replacement. Both of our leading DC candidates have taken other jobs, so back to square one there.
2009-01-20 16:33:08
173.   underdog
172 - Ah. Hrm. I'm more excited about Nunnely, but I guess that's cool. Was hoping they'd hire Wink Martindale instead.

Yeah, don't rush or anything in that hiring process, Al. :-/

2009-01-20 16:36:32
174.   Eric Stephen
168
$2.65m already puts Ethier atop the list of fellow Super Two outfielders from the last few years. His stats aren't so superior to them to have a compelling case for making $3.75m, roughly 50% more than the next guy (Alex Rios). Luke Scott is very similar to Ethier, and he signed for $2.4m for 2009.

If Ethier and the Dodgers can't settle on a contract before arbitration, the Dodgers will win the hearing.

2009-01-20 16:36:39
175.   DaDoughboy
I believe Ethier's arb will rule in his favor, which I'm totally ok with. One of the things I like about him is his patience and continued improvement at pitch selection. His AB's increased by 129 from his rookie year to his 3rd year, yet K'ed only 11 more times...that seems like a pretty darn good player to me.

167.
That extra year sure didn't seem to help Francoeurs cause.

2009-01-20 16:40:14
176.   bferb
Accounting for Andruw's now deferred salary, Martin and Broxton signing, and assuming $3 Million for Ethier, does anyone know what our total payroll comes out to?
2009-01-20 16:41:23
177.   Tripon
175 If anything, it hurt it. Francouer had a much better case if he was a super two last year, instead of his status today.
2009-01-20 16:41:47
178.   Eric Stephen
176
Roughly $78m, assuming the team-controlled salaries of all the pre-arb guys ($400-$450k).

http://www.truebluela.com/2009/1/14/720656/dodger-payroll

2009-01-20 16:42:08
179.   regfairfield
Two guesses at who had the higher VORP: Howard or Ethier.
2009-01-20 16:45:23
180.   DaDoughboy
174.
Dumb question: Does anybody know if age is taken into consideration when it comes to arb ruling? Just curious as Scott is 30 and Ethier is 26.
2009-01-20 16:45:38
181.   bferb
178 Thanks. I had seen that post before, but didnt know it had been updated.
2009-01-20 16:47:52
182.   D4P
Two guesses at who had the higher Fangraphs Value: (Cody) Ross or Ethier.
2009-01-20 16:48:20
183.   Tripon
Cody Ross probably. Center fielders get a defensive boost.
2009-01-20 16:50:11
184.   Tripon
Also, the Marlins aren't likely to play Ross as a center fielder this year, drastically cutting down his value.
2009-01-20 16:50:52
185.   Xeifrank
I sat in the backseat of a Mercedes on the Autobahn in southern Germany that was doing around 180mph if my conversion from kmh to mph was correct. And the ride was smooth and luckily the pilot, er... I mean driver wasn't texting at the time.
vr, Xei
2009-01-20 16:52:14
186.   regfairfield
Ross must have played amazing defense last year, because Ethier way out hit him.
2009-01-20 16:54:35
187.   Eric Stephen
180
Age is really only a consideration in terms of how one side can use it to project the performance of the one upcoming season in question.

In other words, Ethier's side would have to show why his age difference (relative to Scott, et al) is relevant to predicting 2009.

To me, it would be more relevant in predicting future value over a number of years as opposed to just one. Especially since the age difference is relatively small for one season.

2009-01-20 16:55:56
188.   Xeifrank
No way Howard will get $18Mil in arbitration. I wouldn't go much over that even if he was a FA.
vr, Xei
2009-01-20 16:56:02
189.   D4P
Cody Ross had the 7th highest Fielding Value in the entire MLB.
2009-01-20 16:57:54
190.   Eric Stephen
188
Yay! We agree on something! I think we have been disagreeing on too much of late. :)
2009-01-20 16:59:45
191.   D4P
No way Howard will get $18Mil in arbitration

If Howard continues his current decline, he'll be eligible for an $18mil/year contract from Ned.

2009-01-20 17:00:27
192.   regfairfield
Ross was second in baseball out of every position in RZR last year. I don't know whether or not I should stop trusting RZR or prepare for the apocalypse.
2009-01-20 17:03:52
193.   Andrew Shimmin
Cody Ross is the way, the truth, and the light.
2009-01-20 17:04:09
194.   Tripon
One thing working against Howard would be that Pujols will only make $16 million this year.
2009-01-20 17:09:05
195.   regfairfield
He can play the Barry Zito card in response.
2009-01-20 17:14:12
196.   Tripon
I LAY DOWN MY TRAP CARD. THIS CARD ALLOWS ME TO THROW AWAY THREE CARDS IN MY HAND AND PICK UP THREE MORE FROM MY DECK.
2009-01-20 17:14:41
197.   Xeifrank
190, What, we agree? Is it too late for me to change my opinion. :) Keep up the good work at TBLA. You're a great asset to that site.
vr, Xei
2009-01-20 17:26:06
198.   silverwidow
There's an article on the Dodger page about Kershaw, McDonald et al visting Lakers practice.

Kobe said he wants to play left field and bat 3rd if Manny doesn't sign.

2009-01-20 17:26:50
199.   Eric Stephen
198
I can't decide which picture I like more: Kobe/McDonald, or Kershaw hugging Odom.
2009-01-20 17:30:41
200.   Jon Weisman
198 - Just like Michael Jordan.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2009-01-20 17:33:01
201.   Tripon
Maybe the Phillies saw that fangraphs gave a value of $14.1 million to Ryan Howard's 2008 season and decided that should be their arbitration offer.
2009-01-20 17:33:38
202.   Bluebleeder87
I like how Kobe picks the shortest Dodgers & poses with him...
2009-01-20 17:33:46
203.   Jon Weisman
FYI, there will be a dedicated thread for the Lost season premiere tomorrow night. Set your constants now!
2009-01-20 17:36:59
204.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2009-01-20 17:39:30
205.   KG16
200 - I bet Kobe wouldn't even have to quit basketball to do it, though. I wonder if he can hit a curve.
2009-01-21 07:42:02
206.   DarrenDreifortsSoreHip
Maybe I'm a dullard when it comes to transactions, but is there a reason why Martin didn't get signed for more than a year?

There must be some way to go down to the cheapskate Marlins' level and pick up Cameron Maybin and Cody Ross.

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