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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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5) discussing politics
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Spring Training Open Chat: March 26
2005-03-26 09:15
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Comments
2005-03-26 09:58:04
1.   Suffering Bruin
Today's fact of Choi, SB's favorite big leaguer, 2005:

Born March 16th, he shares a birthday with just one Hall of Famer, Lloyd Waner. There are five current big leaguers born a day after the Ides of March, the oldest of whom is Quinton McCracken.

2005-03-26 10:29:15
2.   Linkmeister
Was he Big Poison or Little Poison?
2005-03-26 10:40:02
3.   Marty
Little
2005-03-26 11:43:59
4.   Bob Timmermann
Neither Waner was particularly large and the Big and Little just referred to their relative ages.

Sort of like how all my "Big" brothers are shorter than me.

2005-03-26 11:51:17
5.   Jim Hitchcock
Does anyone know if Matt Luke will be ready for the Freeway Series? Or Elster for Opening day?
2005-03-26 12:03:49
6.   Bob Timmermann
I'm sure if you send Kevin Elster a ticket, he'll go to the game with you.

I think Matt Luke lives in Southern California so he may be easier to reach.

Ahh, Kevin Elster, the man who christened SBC (then Pac Bell) Park in style!

2005-03-26 17:07:49
7.   Rick A
According to the times Wilson Alvarez will not start the season in the starting rotation because of a "lack of arm strength" stemming from his shoulder tendinitis. So our starting No. 5 could be Elmer Dessens or Ryan Rupe. God help us all.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodrep26mar26,1,5130513.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger&ctrack=1&cset=true

2005-03-26 17:20:30
8.   fanerman91
Hopefully Penny will be back soon and we'll only have to start Dessens/Rupe once...

At least according to:
http://all-baseball.com/fourthof/

2005-03-26 18:09:10
9.   Suffering Bruin
If nobody has seen it yet, Rich Lederer over at Baseball Analysts has an essay on Vin Scully. It starts with, "Like Eric Neel, Scully was also my favorite announcer." Check it out if you can... and might I add that the past few days of baseball blogging have made for some great reading on the Dodgers.
2005-03-26 21:40:50
10.   Jim Hitchcock
Thanks, SB. Another good story, and a great photo!

77 years young, as he would put it.

"The Dodgers without Vinny would be like a world without dogs..."

2005-03-26 22:01:42
11.   Jerry
Plaschke's new laugher is up. If God expects from us as much as Simers and Plaschke expect from the Dodgers, we are doomed.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke27mar27,1,7712547.column?coll=la-headlines-sports

2005-03-26 22:08:00
12.   Bob Timmermann
When you are a longtime season ticket holder, the laws of supply and demand don't apply to you apparently.

Can I have that guy's seat for Opening Day? If he gives me his, I'll give him the pair I have in the blue section. It's win-win!

2005-03-26 22:18:30
13.   Eric L
I feel bad for the guy (sort of...)

Plashckers shouldn't use the phrase "average fan" for someone who drops $20,000 a year on his season tickets. He might be an average fan, but he also happens to have an above average amount of disposable income for a retiree.

On a related note, does anyone know what happened with the Laker's season ticket holders when they moved to Staples? I would assume that the "same seats" at Staples were more than the Forum.

2005-03-26 22:40:47
14.   Bob Timmermann
In 1991, courtside seats at the Forum were $450 a game. By 1999 and the move to Staples, there were $850/game.

Suites at Staples started between $197,000 and $350,000 per year.

2005-03-26 23:02:09
15.   Eric L
Thanks Bob..

I figured you would know the answer. I feel bad for the folks who shelled out the big bucks for season tickets this year.

I know this is a Dodgers site, but where are the Plaschke articles about Buss and Kupchak "tearing apart" the team that actually had a championship atmosphere? 3 titles in 5 years is certainly more atmosphere than 1 playoff win.. the Lakers did that in the Finals last year.

Indeed.

2005-03-26 23:07:08
16.   Bob Timmermann
I think that the Lakers have received even more criticism than the Dodgers for remaking their team in the press.

I'm waiting for Plaschke to write a column about the Galaxy trading Ruiz to Dallas and bringing in Landon Donovan.

Or maybe a touching story about a Galaxy season ticketholder who had to move to a different location because of the emergence of Chivas USA.

2005-03-26 23:16:53
17.   Jerry
Since January 1st, Plaschke has written one article that was semi-critical of the Lakers: "Bryant Has to Say Yes on Jackson" on 3/9/05 (according to Lexis-Nexis).

We know how many negative pieces he's done on the Dodgers since the start of the year.

Maybe it's easier to do negative pieces in the offseason, but still, it seems to me that Plaschke targets the Dodgers more than he does the Lakers.

2005-03-26 23:27:59
18.   Eric L
I can't wait for the season to start so these type of articles will stop. If the Dodgers do indeed suck (and I don't think they will), at least the Times will have an actual reason to rip on them.

What will the Times guys do if they play well?

2005-03-27 00:19:44
19.   Suffering Bruin
He'll get his proper beatdown from FJT tomorrow morn but, jeebus, this is inept journalism. If we are to buy all of Plaschke's arguments, we must believe that:

*The Dodgers should never do anything to try and make money. Ever.
*McCourt dismissed Beltre, whatever that means. We could ask the principals involved but journalism is so hard, I guess. The details of the Beltre signing remain a mystery to Plaschke but take his word for it, McCourt "dismissed" him. Moving right along..
*A guy took offense at being offered better seats for a far more expensive price or to keep his same location for the same price. And this is a crime because... well, just because! And McCourt doesn't have the money to buy the team! The guy said so himself!

Look--I know folks have been saying that some of us have been hard on the Plaschkers. I've read where some of us should lighten up. But Jerry's right and Steve's right, too. These aren't mistakes. The Plaschkers have an agenda. Even in the face of contrary evidence, they can't deviate from the storyline: McCourt is broke, Beltre was dissed, fans are being treated badly, Depodesta has a computer fetish... we could all add to this list, right?

Bill Plaschke's journalism is at least unprofessional and at most contemptable. The criticism of him has been harsh because he deserves every bit of it.

2005-03-27 00:44:21
20.   Bob Timmermann
For those not wanting to do the math, Mr. Zeiger was paying $60/game/ticket for his front row seats.

Now a similar seat is $360/game/ticket.

It's hard to compare that to other baseball stadiums because they don't list the prices for the premium seats.

Pretty much anytime a stadium is renovated and the seats are reconfigured someone will get angry. I remember once after one Coliseum renovation some Rams or Raiders season ticket holder was complaining that his seat was no longer on the 50-yard line and a team official remarked how many people all seemed to have seats exactly in that place.

This really isn't news. And it's not particularly heart-tugging to me.

2005-03-27 01:05:41
21.   Jim Hitchcock
Well, to be fair, the distance from the foul line to his seats hasn't changed. He'll no longer have the glamour of front row seats, and his diet Pepsi will have to sit on a wall instead of the dugout roof...

Personally, though, I'd rather see the corporate type riff raff confined to skyboxes.

2005-03-27 07:46:19
22.   Bob Timmermann
On a better note, Tom Meagher is quoted in Bill Shaikin's story on the stadium renovations.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodstadium27mar27,1,3657731.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger

2005-03-27 07:53:58
23.   Jon Weisman
Good for Tom. And it's a great picture on Rich Lederer's site of his dad with Vin.

The irony inherent in Plaschke's story is that Irving Zeiger lost his front-row seats exactly the same way he got them. The owner of the Dodgers moved the location of where the front row was (more dramatically in 1958/1962 than 2005), and somebody new swooped in.

2005-03-27 08:59:43
24.   Colorado Blue
Darn it Jon! I was thinking the exact same thing as I read the article. I'm glad I read all the posts prior to repeating your entry... that's what I get for not being on-line as much as I would like lately...

I don't know much about this Plaschke guy... was he around when the Dodgers moved to LA? If so, I wonder what his take was on Brooklyn's sentiments...

Happy Easter!

2005-03-27 10:22:01
25.   Bob Timmermann
Plaschke was the Dodgers beat writer back in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

I assume that he's in his late 40s from the time I've seen him on TV.

2005-03-27 11:13:39
26.   Bob Timmermann
If you do want to meet some weepy Brooklynites you can come to a national SABR convention.

The walteromalley.com website was a sponsor of the convention last year and I heard some grumbling about it from some of the attendees.

2005-03-27 11:40:33
27.   Jim Hitchcock
Gee, I turn on the radio, it's 8-1 Dodgers. Five minutes (and three HR's) later, it's 8-5.

Turning off the radio...

2005-03-27 12:08:26
28.   LAT
We all know baseball is a business. Most owners at least try to create the illusion its about the team, the fans and winning and not just about money. And while we are happy to buy into this pretense, in the back of our mind we all know the owners need to and are entitled to make a buck. As such, they are entitled to raise ticket prices. But 500% is excessive. It leaves no doubt that revenue is king and my grandfather's, father's and my loyalty to the Dodgers is of little value to the current organization. Instead they want law firms and studio executives loyalty. Very few individuals can afford $120,000 for tickets. And while Mr. Zeiger is no further from the field this year than he was last year, his 53 years of loyalty and seniority has been leapfrogged by a bunch of suits who are coming down from the luxury boxes now that they can sit on the field protected from the rest of us by concrete walls and security . I recognize this dichotomy exists everywhere in our daily life otherwise there would be no Country Clubs or First Class Plane seats, but somehow the Dodgers have always been about ticketholder loyalty and seniority--not who could pay the most. Its their team and the McCourt's are entitled to change the culture of the Dodgers including catering to the suits at the expense of Mr. Zeigler but Plashke and I don't have to like it.

As for Plashke, while I don't care for his writing style, I have no problem with his criticisms of the Dodger organization as long as if the Dodgers win the division, he begins each article thereafter, admitting he was wrong.

2005-03-27 14:55:20
29.   Doug N
LAT;
Dodger Stadium is still one of the cheapest places to see a game. It's one of the only stadiums where an average family can find a way to see most games. Check out the ticket prices for Fenway or Yankee Stadium, places that are supposed to care about the fans. Imagine dropping a hundred bucks so Mom & Dad & the kiddies could have standing room only tickets for a July game against Tampa Bay...
2005-03-27 17:03:25
30.   LAT
Doug, Point well taken. But those stadiums have been there for substantially longer so I assume the ticket increases were over time--not 500% in one season. In addition, those teams have the two largest payrolls in baseball. I did'nt look very far at other stadiums, but the absolute best seat at the BOB is $110, not $400. (taking my daughter for her B'day to see D'Backs v Dodgers). I am a Dodger season ticket holder and my seats only went up 5 bucks each. Even though at 4 seats for 81 thats $1,620, I can live with it. But I have friends who went from $35 and $45 to $60 and $75 respectivly. I understand all the arguments its just sticker/culture shock.
2005-03-27 18:41:52
31.   Suffering Bruin
Today's fact of Choi, SB's favorite big leaguer, 2005:

Jon, forgive me if this seems like promotion but the blog I'm calling attention to isn't mine and anyway, how many Dodgers have blogs devoted entirely to them?

http://choicentral.blogspot.com/

I say, we all pick a player and blog that player! We'll draw straws. If I get Paul Bako, we'll draw straws again...

Happy Easter, one and all.

2005-03-27 18:54:30
32.   Vishal
i like choi a lot, and the blog is a good idea, but surely the blogger could've come up with a better name? how about some "choi to the world", or "bundle of choi" or something more clever than choi central. i don't demand clever names, but this one seems rife with possibilities.
2005-03-27 21:55:24
33.   Jerry
It looks like Repko is going to make the club and bat second in the lineup.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodrep28mar28,1,6048021.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger

2005-03-27 23:53:41
34.   Eric Enders
Alas, I think the best Choi-related name is already taken: Someone over on Baseball Think Factory uses the handle "Hee Seop's Fables."
2005-03-28 00:18:30
35.   Icaros
"It looks like Repko is going to make the club and bat second in the lineup."

Werth needs to come back. Now.

Putting Choi in the eight hole is causing me to agree with the title of Steve and Jerry's blog.

2005-03-28 08:23:14
36.   Colorado Blue
"Plaschke was the Dodgers beat writer back in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
I assume that he's in his late 40s from the time I've seen him on TV."

Thanks for bio Bob.

RE: Ticket prices. Here in Denver I can get left field pavilion or right field mezz seats for $4 per seat for most games through the local grocery store chain. These seats are normally $13 - $24 per depending on the game classification. Having a wife and 3 kids I can take the train to the game ($15), take our own food, and get seats for $20... $35 is a pretty good deal for a Sunday afternoon Dodger game at Coors Field ;)
Of course, as soon as the Rockies begin winning again it's all over.

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