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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

DePodesta DePolarization
2005-04-07 09:00
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, but I can't.

What I can do, perhaps, is illustrate that you don't have to like or dislike everything the Dodgers have done under Paul DePodesta.

Look at the following almost-comprehensive list of Dodger transactions since DePodesta became general manager (information courtesy of Dodgers.com). I defy you to like or hate them all. I've offered my interpretations – your mileage will vary.

That doesn't mean you can't ultimately form an opinion of DePodesta as generally good or generally bad. Some transactions are more important than others. But maybe it will help make my case that DePodesta isn't this alien species that has come here either to serve man, or, you know, to serve man. Maybe it will help us all realize that DePodesta's fans are not blind supporters, and that his detractors can find a silver lining here or there.

We'll see. Have a read and a smile…

3/20/05 Acquired C Jason Phillips from the New York Mets in exchange for LHP Kazuhisa Ishii.
Solid – saving dollars and improving the catching while Ishii still has mythical value.

2/3/05 Agreed to terms with Japanese 3B Norihiro Nakamura on a one-year minor league contract with an invitation to Spring Training.
Low-cost investment in an Jose Valentin alternative/platoon partner.

1/13/05 Signed C Paul Bako to a one-year contract.
Low-cost but seems pointless.

1/11/05 Signed RHP Derek Lowe to a four-year contract.
Will help, but risky, expensive. Would have liked to have seen better solutions for the pitching and better places to spend $36 million.

1/11/05 Acquired C Dioner Navarro, RHP Danny Muegge, RHP Beltran Perez and RHP William Juarez from the Diamondbacks for OF Shawn Green and cash.
Good to cut losses on a player in decline.

1/7/05 Signed LHP Odalis Perez to a three-year contract with a club option for a fourth year.
Riskier than people seem to think.

12/23/04 Signed OF J.D. Drew to a five-year contract.
Given the reality that Adrian Beltre was gone, a good singing. Just today, Nate Silver of Baseball Prospectus wrote:

"The best of the "major" free agent signings appears to be J.D. Drew. While PECOTA is usually not very kind to players with substantial injury histories, it's worth remembering that almost every veteran player carries some injury risk, and Drew has at least demonstrated an ability to play well when he does take the field. It's also worth noting that a fair number of Drew's comparables--guys like Brian Giles--had late peaks."

12/21/04 Did not tender 2005 contracts to INF Alex Cora, LHP Scott Stewart and C Tom Wilson, making them free agents.
Cora's loss is a casualty of the arbitration system. The Dodgers might have retained him for the contract he ultimately received from Cleveland, but the salary arbitration they would have been bound to offer would have paid him more.

12/21/04 Signed INF Jose Valentin to a one-year contract and re-signed LHP Wilson Alvarez to a two-year contract.
Don't like signing Valentin, though the small timeframe is a consolation. Like the Alvarez signing.

12/13/04 Selected RHP Dennis Houlton from the Astros in the Rule 5 Draft.
Thought little of it at the time - looking good so far.

12/11/04 Claimed LHP Frank Brooks off waivers from the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Could contribute this year.

12/9/04 Signed INF Jeff Kent to a two-year contract.
Like this.

12/7/04 Re-signed RHP Elmer Dessens to a one-year contract with a mutual option for 2006.
Don't like.

12/6/04 Agreed to terms with OF Ricky Ledee on a two-year contract.
Not thrilling.

11/16/04 Signed RHP Ryan Rupe, RHP Buddy Carlyle, OF Tydus Meadows, INF Tony Schrager and INF Jose Flores to minor league contracts with invitations to Spring Training.
Carlyle may turn out to be key.

11/14/04 Signed OF Mike Edwards, C Mike Rose and OF Jon Weber to minor league contracts with invitations to Spring Training.
Interesting at the time, looking like non-events at this point.

2004-2005 offseason Lost 3B Adrian Beltre, UT Jose Hernandez, OF Steve Finley, P Jose Lima as free agents.
Finley, Lima and Hernandez cases not unlike Cora's. I lament Beltre's departure.

8/19/04 Acquired RHP Elmer Dessens and cash considerations from the Diamondbacks in exchange for minor league OF Jereme Milons.
This turned out to be harmless, and Dessens did contribute in the division-clinching game.

8/18/04 Aquired nonroster LHP Scott Stewart from the Indians for cash or a PTBN.
Whatever.

8/17/04 Acquired nonroster C Tom Wilson from the Mets for nonroster C Tony Socarras.
No big thing.

7/31/04 Recalled RHP Yhency Brazoban from Triple-A Las Vegas.
I'm not mentioning most minor league callups, but placing faith in Brazoban in 2004 was obviously sound.

7/31/04 Acquired OF Steve Finley and C Brent Mayne from the Arizona Diamondbacks in exchange for OF Reggie Abercrombie, LHP Bill Murphy and C Koyie Hill.
Didn't care for getting Finley at the time – I was wrong.

7/31/04 Acquired minor league OF Henri Stanley from the Boston Red Sox in exchange for OF Dave Roberts.
Having nothing to do with The Stolen Base, I would have liked to keep Roberts as a reserve.

7/31/04 Acquired minor league LHP Matt Merricks from the Atlanta Braves in exchange for LHP Tom Martin and cash considerations.
Good to get out of Martin's contract. Too bad Merricks was lost in Rule V Draft.

7/30/04 Traded C Paul Lo Duca, OF Juan Encarnacion and RHP Guillermo Mota to Florida Marlins for 1B Hee-Seop Choi, RHP Brad Penny and minor league pitcher Bill Murphy.
As I said at the time, a risky move with great potential rewards. I wouldn't have had the courage, but that doesn't mean it was wrong.

6/2/04 Signed RHP Giovanni Carrara to a minor league contract and assigned him to Triple-A Las Vegas.
I thought Carrara was done. He wasn't.

4/4/04 Acquired OF Milton Bradley from the Indians for nonroster OF Franklin Gutierrez and a PTBN (Andrew Brown).
Gambling against Gutierrez's future – so far it seems like a winner, but time will tell.

4/3/04 Acquired pitcher Aaron Looper and pitcher Ryan Ketchner from Seattle for infielder Jolbert Cabrera.
Good investment in future, with Hernandez covering Cabrera's role. As DePodesta said in his Dodger Thoughts interview, this wasn't his idea.

4/3/04 Acquired shortstop Antonio Perez from Tampa Bay for outfielder Jason Romano.
Anything for Romano is a winner.

4/1/04 Acquired outfielder Cody Ross from Detroit for Steve Colyer and a player to be named later or cash considerations.
Colyer is back in the minors with the Mets; Ross for the moment has been passed by home-grown Jason Repko. Seemed sound at a time when the Dodgers had an overflow of relievers.

3/30/04 Acquired outfielder Jayson Werth from Toronto for pitcher Jason Frasor.
Good trade for both teams. Dodgers get an everyday player (when healthy).

3/30/04 Acquired outfielder Jason Grabowski from Oakland for cash considerations
He had that good May.

Comments (143)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-04-07 10:07:37
1.   Suffering Bruin
Alright already, Jon. Uncle... I'm going to paypal and making a donation. Information like this is just too damn good.

I do believe, however, that this post would've broken yesterday's comments record had you just worked in the McCourts. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Today's fact of Choi, SB's favorite player, 2005:

I am almost certain that Hee-Seop Choi, at 6-5 and 240 pounds, is both the tallest and the heaviest player on his team and that he is the only major league player that can make that claim--at least until Wilson Alvarez comes off the DL.

2005-04-07 10:10:39
2.   Jerry
I think Derek Lowe is 6'6".

Meanwhile, Kaz Ishii surrendered 2 runs in the first without giving up a base hit. And we got a starting catcher from dealing him? Wow.

2005-04-07 10:14:11
3.   Suffering Bruin
I am almost certain that Derek Lowe is 6-6 and that my claim in post #1 is based on specious if not entirely spacey thinking. After having looked at all of the major league rosters, I neglected to look at the Dodgers.

(sigh)

This fact of Choi stuff is going to be harder than I anticipated.

2005-04-07 10:16:57
4.   Sushirabbit
Jon,
I'm totally hooked. Can't believe I half-slept through last night's game without loggin' on with a laptop....
The banter would help me stay awake. Of course, I decided not to get Extra Innings and instead go for Sounds (Nashville) tickets instead this year... hmm...

I suggest the group (hug) name of Beasts and Children

{# 121. by Steve
But Valentin's in the lineup! }

Hahahaha

Uh, I do have to remind everyone of my previous post (161103.html#comments)
{# 209. by Sushirabbit
I boldly predict that we will crush the gnats tonight, with an offensive explosion.}

(how to do italics?)

IF I can't do it here, where can I? How many times have you gone "from-in-the-hallway-over-the-fridge-banked-off-the-wall-into-the-garbagecan-that-I-can-not-see" and had noone there to share?

I now predict that that is my last succesful prediction! (or should I predict everygame, hoping that somehow my powers of mystical projection helped the Bums o' the West.)

I think Depo and the current Dodger-Org are better off than before. Time and wins/losses will tell.

Did Repko (I think it was him) lose his glove last night trying to steal that home run? And if so does anybody know what happened after that? Anybody sucks compared to Vin. But I'd actually take hearing "meat" too many times over Morgan. And you guys, I just realized who Kruc was!?! They showed the all-star at bat against Johnson. How could I have not known/remembered that.

OK... enough, I leave long answering machine messages, too. Anyway, consider me a supporter.

BTW, I am on CST and do have to getup roughly 5 hours after most games end. So my posts are apt to always be at the bottom.

2005-04-07 10:17:25
5.   Smirk
Thanks, Jon, for more great info. Valentin was awesome lastnight and I have a pie in my face.

Scully talked about patience during the game lastnight. About how some people (me) panic too early in the season (opening day) and that the wise approach to baseball includes being patient, waiting atleast two months before making drastic decisions about the ball club. Perhaps he glanced at DT yesterday and saw the debate???

2005-04-07 10:25:04
6.   Jon Weisman
The 2x2x2 month approach that Vin described last night is a Billy Beane-DePodesta philosphy, is it not?
2005-04-07 10:27:06
7.   Jim Tracy
I like most of DePodesta's moves. I am still baffled as to what happened with Beltre, and of all offseason transactions, I would have loved the Dodgers to lock him up for 5-7 years, at the expense of Kent. That being said Kent + Valentin + Drew will make up for Beltre + Cora + Green. I just hope prospects like Aybar and Guzman pan out, or we'll have to sign free agents at 2b and 3b in a couple of years.

Re. Beltre, I am amazad at how far apart the two sides seem. Beltre acting like the martyr, wanting to come back, even at a discount, but was not shown love, so he left. And the Dodgers lamenting how communication was impossible because Boras was involved and they had no idea how much the other bids were for. I don't think I fully trust either side on this one.

*Conspiracy Theory* - If DePo told Boras that he is willing to pay Beltre-like money to Drew if he cannot get Beltre, isn't it possible that no one else might be willing to sign Drew for that much for that long, whereas Beltre is far more marketable? Therefore, wouldn't it be in Boras' best interests to get Beltre signed somewhere where he'd get what the Dodgers are willing to pay and then get the Dodgers to pay high for Drew?

Sorry, that was my little conspiracy theory for the day. Not to imply, I do not like Drew, I really drew :). But, going into the offseason, I would not have thought he'd get close to Beltre money. Beltre is less injury prone, younger and plays a premium defensive position exceptionally well.

To recap, do I like DePodesta's moves? Yes I do. Do I think we can win with the team we have? Yes I do. Do I think Boras screwed Beltre and the Dodgers? Yes I do.

2005-04-07 10:30:29
8.   FirstMohican
On Vin's 2x2x2: the first two are to see what you have, the next two are to fix what's wrong, right? What were the last two?

"Did Repko (I think it was him) lose his glove last night trying to steal that home run?"

I believe I read that it was Grabowski.

2005-04-07 10:30:40
9.   Eric Enders
Who is taller/heavier than Frank Thomas, now that Jon Rauch has been jettisoned?

It was Grabowski who lost his glove over the fence... however, the dadgummed Giants broadcast didn't show how he got it back. Is it like a bat, where you give a new one to the fan in exchange for your gamer?

2005-04-07 10:35:48
10.   fanerman91
I forget the exact wording of the last two. But the equivalent is "watch your team go crazy."
2005-04-07 10:37:09
11.   db1022
"On Vin's 2x2x2: the first two are to see what you have, the next two are to fix what's wrong, right? What were the last two?"

Win.

2005-04-07 10:37:30
12.   Rick A
The last 2 are for making "the stretch run".
2005-04-07 10:37:44
13.   Eric Enders
By the way, in case y'all are interested in breaking yesterday's biggest-thread-ever record, this article provides a good start...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_2644156

And is it just me, or should both Dodger errors last night have belonged to Olmedo Saenz? Both throws were catchable, it seemed to me... they were both the kind of errors that knee-jerk official scorers usually give to the SS/3B without even thinking about it.

2005-04-07 10:40:38
14.   Bob Timmermann
Somebody from the grounds crew or a security guard threw Grabowski's glove back over the fence.
2005-04-07 10:42:03
15.   jelmendorf
Very helpful list, Jon. I'll bite on the eval.

I count roughly 40 moves, of which 8 strike me as significant, 11 as somewhat significant and 21 as of virtually no importance.

To me, six of the eight major moves are definitely good. Losing Beltre is without question bad, though that doesn't necessarily mean it was the wrong decision (salary and such being unknowns). The final one, the Lowe signing, strikes me as a real question mark. I agree with Jon that it's a lot of money, and so I wonder about it, but am willing to keep the books open here.

AS for the mid-level moves, the only one I'd put in the bad category is losing Jose Hernandez, but since that was a function of arbitration, it's hard to criticize DePo for it. I think it was the right move. The rest seem to me to either be smart (letting Lima go) or fairly neutral (signing Ledee).

All in all, I definitely count myself among the DePo fans, and don't seen a ton of really black marks against him. Time will tell whether Lowe and Beltre end up being those marks.

2005-04-07 10:42:55
16.   fanerman91
Yeah I thought so. If Choi were playing we'd be better off, but oh well.

Kent looked pretty damn good on defense yesterday. As I understand it, Vin was taking good care to mention this (I'm up in norcal, so I had to listen to "meat" or whatever the sf commentator says).

2005-04-07 10:45:41
17.   fanerman91
That last post was replying to #13 BTW.
2005-04-07 10:45:47
18.   Steve
Lesson learned!
2005-04-07 10:47:07
19.   gvette
As Jon pointed out in one of his articles,other than the twin lightning rods of LoDuca, and Beltre, DePodesta's transactions are just like every other competent GM's; some good, some not so good, and the bulk ending up in the small type on the transactions page of the paper. On reflection,way too much talk radio/LA Times generated hysteria.

Speaking of hysteria, I'll be ready to board the Valentin-mania bandwagon if he continues on his blistering 81 HR pace.

Is it just me, or does Jeff Kent look exactly like a suburban cop who really isn't much interested in your excuse about why you were going 40 in the school zone?

2005-04-07 10:49:23
20.   mcrawford
About the errors, I know what you're saying, EE, but I'm willing to accept it as "just the way it is" (SS/3B getting the errors on slightly-errant throws). Errors are a pretty stupid concept in general, so it doesn't really bother me that they get assigned capriciously sometimes.

I was at the game yesterday, and Kent did look pretty good on defense. The nice plays he made were sort of like 3B plays -- hot shots where he took maybe one step and made the play. My friends up here tell me that soon I will come to dislike Jeff Kent for his jerk comments, but we'll see.

2005-04-07 10:50:17
21.   mcrawford
Good call on the Kent-cop comparison. It's that mustache.
2005-04-07 11:02:17
22.   scareduck
There is simply no way Beltre was a good singing. I heard Lima last year, and have a hard time believing Belly could be any better.

Oh, wait, you mean signing...

2005-04-07 11:07:22
23.   Sam NYC
Re: #20
Giants fans don't like jerks? How then to explain the love of Bonds?

Generally, I like DePo's moves. I would have liked the LADs to get someone for Green who could help them this year. And I still think DePo just showed his inexperience in handling the Beltre matter. He can't be faulted for the fact that he's young. McCourt knew that when hiring him.

But the LoDuca trade will be his legacy and since it was the first big move, it set everyone up to look at him with a jaundiced eye. If Choi is a bust and Penny doesn't recover from this freak injury, that trade will be the first thing mentioned in DePo's obituary, rightly or wrongly.

2005-04-07 11:08:03
24.   bigcpa
Ishii bounced back with 7k through 5ip and only 4 baserunners. But it looks like Odalis stole his run support voodoo doll.
2005-04-07 11:08:04
25.   Icaros
"Is it just me, or does Jeff Kent look exactly like a suburban cop who really isn't much interested in your excuse about why you were going 40 in the school zone?"

Funny.

2005-04-07 11:12:07
26.   Sam NYC
BTW, we should also mention the trade DePo did NOT make: Mota for Beltran (it was involving the A's -- Beane was desperate for a closer and was willing to part with the prospects KC wanted for Beltran in order to get Mota)
2005-04-07 11:13:05
27.   Jonny6
I have gotta admit, Kent's defense looked excellent last night, but I am very, very disappointed with his new clean shaved look. He either shaved off the stache or trimmed it substantially, I couldn't really tell which. How am I supposed to make stupid references to motorcycle cops and 70's porn stars now? Well, at least we still have Valentin's grooming to comment on.

Besides Brazoban, the bullpen looked excellent last night. According to the Giant's speed gun, Sanchez hit 95 a couple times last night. Does anyone remember him hitting speeds that high on a regular basis last year? Seems a little higher than I remember.

One more added thought about Jon's group hug yesterday: In honor of all us wasting valuable work time on this site day in and day out, perhaps we should all join together in solidarity for one game in the bleachers. We could drink copious amounts of overpriced swill beer, and argue over statistics face-to-face instead on the internet. It would either be a really entertaining day, or supremely awkward, kind of like one of those 7th grade dances with no one intermingling.

"Uh, hi are you Icaros? My name's Jonny 6, I loved your posts about Kent's VORP."

Ok, on second thought, maybe not such a good idea....

2005-04-07 11:13:32
28.   SubAlum41
Agree with most, but not all.
1) Roberts: Depo did the humanitarian thing. Where could you fit Roberts on the roster? Give him a chance to play somewhere else. Let him have his fading days in the sun (i.e. The Big Steal) Anyway, he's just a perennial hamstring problem waiting to happen.

2) DLo: Depo would have liked a cheaper solution also. If you remember, numbers hit the roof this year. All the GM's freaked (the reasons the numbers exploded). It was a crapshoot for everyone this year. At least Depo came out with something solid in his hand.

3) Odalis: Your quote - "Riskier than people seem to think."
Could you elaborate on that? He's young and reliable. Three years is not that long. OK, so he had a problem lifting weights (after he signed). Outside of that, no history of injury probs (and, as you say, everybody has some risk of future injuries). So why single him out?

4) Valentin: Let's not get into the Beltre thing. Assume he's gone and they couldn't get Koskie. Perez + the minors was not the answer. Who? How? would you have played it? As it is, they won the bidding with Nori, who'll be up in a bit. Depo filled the Beltre hole quickly, then scurried around to get a backup. If Nori works out (still an "if"), Depo's got a hot combo to play with.

5) Grabbles: The less said, the better.

2005-04-07 11:13:51
29.   Icaros
After reading that article Eric posted, I like Jeff Kent even more.
2005-04-07 11:14:04
30.   Chris H
"If Choi is a bust and Penny doesn't recover from this freak injury, that trade will be the first thing mentioned in DePo's obituary, rightly or wrongly. "

I guess it has been decided that Plaschke is writing Depo's obituary.

2005-04-07 11:16:12
31.   Bob Timmermann
I wonder how Bill Plaschke would have treated Frank Lane in December of 1965.
2005-04-07 11:19:48
32.   Blue in SF
I was at the game yesterday and fortunate enough to sit a couple rows back from the end of the Dodgers dugout (where the stairs down to the dugout are), so I had an interesting perspective on the team. My observations:

1) The clearest thing I saw was that Derek Lowe looks like the greatest teamate ever. Leaning up against the rail the ENTIRE game (I've never seen a starting pitcher do that) and definitely into the game (the first guy to greet teamates after scoring a run and cheer on his mates) but also loose and horsing around and keeping things cool with a big smile on his face the whole game. He and Bako were playing grabass throughout.

2) Milton Bradley (tm) looks just as combustible as last season. He was taking some mild ribbing from the fans around the dugout (I don't know what he was getting out in center) and instead of just ignoring it like EVERY OTHER PLAYER, he was looking into the stands and gesturing to fans, including holding his forefinger and thumb about an inch apart (a reference to a certain part of the offending fans' anatomy?) and making a sign like he was putting money in his pocket. Later he did some kind of wierd kick at home plate and then put a finger to his lips to tell the crowd to "shush" after he scored a run. Maybe this is obvious, but it is not a matter of if this guy blows up again, but when.

3) Hee Sop has that look on his face like he can't really believe he is in the show and doesn't really know what is going on. I got him to crack up during the star spangled banner by sticking my tongue out at him (apologies to all the patriots who revere American symbolism). Like an 8 year old in a gigantic body.

4) Odalis was showing a lot of emotion on the mound and in the dugout after he came out; totally pumped up. Not sure if this is good or not. Perhaps he was upset with the balls and strikes calls?

5) I didn't hear what Gagne said to get ejected, but it was funny. I saw him in the tunnel after the game with his curls all greased up. He is one goofy looking French Canadian. And he had about a bottle of cologne on; it lingered for about a minute after he blew past.

6) As I was right by firt base, I agree with the earlier sentiment that a good first baseman would have made those plays. Expecially Cesar's throw. He could have just stretched to get this.

7) Repko looked unfazed by his first major league game.

8) Steve Schmoll looked awesome, but young and tiny.

2005-04-07 11:20:55
33.   gvette
How would Plaschke have treated Buzzie Bavasi who in his career dismantled the "Boys of Summer", including Robinson, Hodges and Snider, the Koufax Dodgers, including trading Wills, T. Davis, and Frank Howard, and as an extra bonus, unloaded Nolan Ryan with the Angels?
2005-04-07 11:21:15
34.   Icaros
"Uh, hi are you Icaros? My name's Jonny 6, I loved your posts about Kent's VORP."

I think a group outing sounds fun, Suffering Bruin was organizing one last season, but then I think some personal issues popped up and it didn't happen.

By the way, I've never understood VORP enough to post on it. I'm an OPS man.

Re #28: In defense of Jon's Odails Perez concerns, I believe he had reconstructive surgery when he was a rookie in Atlanta, and he has missed some starts here and there over the past few seasons.

2005-04-07 11:28:33
35.   Tommy Naccarato
I was trying for an outing last year, and John even suggested it again for this year. I called Jon the other night--at the perfectly wrong time--like I've been proned to do all my life, and Jon couldn't talk. (I'm still waiting for the return phone call...:))
2005-04-07 11:31:12
36.   SubAlum41
"I believe he had reconstructive surgery when he was a rookie in Atlanta, and he has missed some starts here and there over the past few seasons."
Gagne also had a Tommy John and nobody talks about that (forget the new stuff, that all has to do with the knee and his stupidity in trying to pitch with it). If anything was wrong with Odalis last year it was his attitude and his weight. He's changed both of those this year, and that shouldn't affect his future performance anyway.
2005-04-07 11:31:16
37.   Icaros
We're going to have to set up a penalty box in case Tommy gets out of line.

Bob Timmermann can work security for it. He's tall.

2005-04-07 11:33:07
38.   Jon Weisman
The Dodger Thoughts roup game outing was also derailed by this notion - which I don't completely subscribe to - that I needed to be there. (You all could have plenty of fun without me.) Anyway, with the boy being born last summer, it was just too hard to do.

This year, though I still don't figure to go to as many games as I have in the past, it would be more likely that I could do it. If someone else wants to organize it, I'd be happy to discuss dates...

2005-04-07 11:34:39
39.   Jon Weisman
Odalis Perez's K/9 ratio declined in 2004. It might be an aberration, but it was enough to concern me, on top of his health history.
2005-04-07 11:35:26
40.   bigcpa
Let's pick an undesirable Tues night game with no promotion and a crappy opponent. We can probly get a block of 20 in the blue.

It would sweet if they had WiFi like at SBC and we could do game chatter without speaking.

2005-04-07 11:35:29
41.   Jonny6
Damn Icaros, I can't believe you shot down my pickup line! You are supposed to just bat your eyelashes and nod your head at whatever I say, even if it's completely wrong. VORP, OPS, CIA, NAFTA, they are all just acronyms to me. I'm just here for the beer in plastic cups.
2005-04-07 11:36:23
42.   Marty
If a group outing is set up, don't do it in the bleachers. I hear they don't sell beer there. I can't watch a game without a $8 cup of Miller
2005-04-07 11:36:47
43.   Icaros
SubAlum,

I'm just trying to explain why Jon would have some concerns.

As a reliever, Gagne pitches half of Perez's innings each year, so there's going to be less concern for his arm than for a starter who's expected to throw 150-200 innings.

Perez did miss some time due to tendinitis last year, and I don't think that can be easily chalked up to weight and attitude.

2005-04-07 11:43:12
44.   Jonny6
If anyone gets serious about organizing an outing, here's my two cents. I don't know about the rest of you, but for me, there is nothing better than a mid-week day game. It always makes me feel like I am ditching school, which brings back fond memories.
2005-04-07 11:43:39
45.   Smirk
Anybody ever go to The Short Stop, a bar on Sunset around the corner from Dodger Stadium? We could meet there for an away game sometime. It might be easier to talk and get to know each other (argue)
2005-04-07 11:46:54
46.   Icaros
Look Jonny, you seem real nice and all, but I'm just not as easy as other guys. I need to feel like the person I'm with is really paying attention to the things I have to say.

I'm down for weekday nights.

2005-04-07 11:49:42
47.   Icaros
Smirk has a good idea, I've thought it would be better (easier to organize and cheaper) to gather and watch a game somewhere than to actually go to one, myself.
2005-04-07 11:51:31
48.   Jim Tracy
Wild Speculation

# 26 got me thinking. What if, instead of Mota + LoDuca for Penny + Choi, we'd have gotten Beltran for Mota. (I remember we also got a good pitching prospect for FLA for Dukie, but we gave him up to ARI along with Koyie Hill for Finley.)

Anyway, so, we wouldn't have gotten Finley, but we'd have a solid catching prospect in Koyie Hill. Now, let's say we do not re-sign Beltran, and we trade Green, but instead of focusing on a top catching prospect, we could have gotten a good 1B, or maybe even kept Green the rest of this year (considering how we are paying most of his salary anyway). So, in the strech run last year, our lineup would be Izzy, LoDuca, Beltran, Beltre, Green, Bradley, Werth and Cora. I think Beltre + LoDuca is so much better than Finley + Ross. Of course, this is all in retrospect, but with this lineup could we have afforded not to have even a healthy Penny in the starting rotation.

Of course we would have lost Beltran in FA, and the trade would not affect this season much, but could we have challenged StL in the playoffs last year with Beltran? I definitely think we'd have been better than Atalanta was and maybe even better than the Astros minus Beltran.

2005-04-07 11:53:33
49.   Dr Love
RE: Post 32, point #2.

I wouldn't think too much of it. Some guys are just like that. I was at a Yankees/Angels game a few years ago and the Halo fans were razzing Mondesi, and he made a few (non threating) gestures, he didn't blow up on anyone. Everybody deals with that stuff their own way, I don't think it's fair to say that just because Milton Bradley acknowledges it that it's going to start the fuse in him. For all we know, he was only reacting because it's Giants fans, had it been say, Reds fans perhaps he wouldn't have done a thing.

2005-04-07 11:53:56
50.   Jon Weisman
Smirk's idea is also something that has occurred to me. (Maybe/maybe not that spot. El Cholo, Tommy?) Maybe we should convene for one home game and one away game, to give people two chances at meeting each other.

I've got no chance at making a midweek day game, other than Opening Day. Can't afford to ditch.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-04-07 11:54:55
51.   Jim Tracy
# 48 - 2ns paragraph, 2nd to last line, it should be "Beltran + LoDuca" rather than "Beltre + LoDuca".
2005-04-07 11:58:08
52.   Smirk
I'd be down for El Cholo. That's in Santa Monica, right?
2005-04-07 12:03:34
53.   Jon Weisman
Yes, and another one on Western south of Wilshire, I think.
2005-04-07 12:07:46
54.   Bob Timmermann
At Opening Day, I will be in Section 39, Row B of the Blue. You can spot me because I'll be the tall guy seated next to a tall woman, who will likely be annoying the people who got the seats right behind us.

I can handle security for any problems that Tommy may cause.

Just distract Tommy by asking him about using a redan design on a golf hole.

2005-04-07 12:08:36
55.   Bob Timmermann
There is also an El Cholo in Pasadena on Fair Oaks about 10 blocks SOUTH of Colorado.
2005-04-07 12:08:44
56.   Dr Love
Couldn't you just bring a Phillie Phanatic replica with you to distract Tommy?
2005-04-07 12:21:34
57.   gvette
Say Goodnight Kaz;

Todays line on Ishii; 6.2 IP, 100 pitches, 2 hits, 5 walks, and 5 ER; NY Metropolitans lose again.

IIRC,the Beltran/Mota three way deal didn't work because the Dodgers didn't have the AAA talent that KC wanted to complete the deal. Nothing that DePo could do about that.

2005-04-07 12:22:31
58.   Sam DC
Mets/Reds over, 6-1 final. Piazza flies out with bases loaded to end the game. Ishii pitched 6.2 innings, 5 ER, 4BB, 7SO.
2005-04-07 12:25:42
59.   Bob Timmermann
The LA Times had a news section version of Plaschke today as there was an article about a tearful family of Italian morticians who had traditionally embalmed dead popes, but now they weren't going to be used.

I can't imagine that embalming popes is a growth industry however.

2005-04-07 12:31:14
60.   gvette
"I can't imagine embalming Popes is a growth industry however"

Well, in 1978 they had a brief up swing in business.

2005-04-07 12:38:15
61.   Steve
Who enbalmed Julio Franco?
2005-04-07 12:39:03
62.   brendan glynn
"I can't imagine that embalming popes is a growth industry however."

I don't know Bob. There were those crazy boom times of 1977-78. Bet they were living large then.

2005-04-07 12:39:36
63.   brendan glynn
damn gvette.
2005-04-07 12:43:50
64.   gvette
"Bet they were living large then."

Yeah, they were probably trying to get Enzo Ferrari to build them special order hearses with 20 inch wheels

2005-04-07 12:56:39
65.   brendan glynn
The Pope is pretty pimp when you think about it.
2005-04-07 12:56:47
66.   dan reines
"Who enbalmed Julio Franco?"

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

best line i've heard in months.

ha!

2005-04-07 12:59:57
67.   Colorado Blue
Todays line on Ishii; 6.2 IP, 100 pitches, 2 hits, 5 walks, and 5 ER

I believe he also had 7 SOs... 5 ERs on 2 Hits and 5 Walks... get used to the gray hairs Met's fans!

2005-04-07 13:00:36
68.   gvette
Brendan,
Doubt we're going to see MTV Cribs-Vatican Edition anytime soon.
2005-04-07 13:07:32
69.   Dr Love
"Doubt we're going to see MTV Cribs-Vatican Edition anytime soon."

Maybe my friends who work on Damage Control can get them to do an episode at the Vatican. That would be a sight to see.

2005-04-07 13:22:50
70.   Ben P
They really have WiFi at SBC park? I like computers but I've really never been at a baseball game and thought, "I wish I had my laptop." Seems kind of silly.
2005-04-07 13:22:54
71.   brendan glynn
I"Doubt we're going to see MTV Cribs-Vatican Edition anytime soon."

I say it's 50/50 the way things are going now. Or maybe it's 51/48

I kind of like the fact that we have Lowe, Perez, Weaver against Schmidt, Woody and Tomko. I think we are in store for some real consistent pitching. Not lights out but steady as she goes. very calming. add Penny to the mix and I like chances in a seven game series as well. I think team has a chance to do really well with a few breaks health wise.

2005-04-07 13:22:57
72.   gvette
The Vatican and new Pontiff would probably hold out for guest shot on the Nick & Jessica Show, but may settle for hosting TRL and being a presenter at an awards show.

Nightmare scenario for a Dodger home game; Valentin commits three errors, Penny reinjures himself, and Ashlee Simpson sings the National Anthem.

2005-04-07 13:25:38
73.   Marty
VATICAN CITY (AP) — Departing from tradition, Pope John Paul II was not embalmed, only "prepared" for viewing by hundreds of thousands of mourners, the Vatican said Tuesday.

So, I imagine the atmosphere is getting interesting about now...

2005-04-07 13:29:25
74.   Bob Timmermann
Did you see who ABC rounded up as an expert to comment on the Pope's death Sunday.

Yep, noted theologian Tommy Lasorda.

"This was one tough pope...."

I was wondering who else they were going to interview. They could have asked me. I'm just as much an expert on Catholicism as Lasorda.

2005-04-07 13:32:19
75.   Marty
Did they ask Tommy what he thought of the pope's performance?
2005-04-07 13:35:13
76.   Icaros
I was wondering who else they were going to interview. They could have asked me. I'm just as much an expert on Catholicism as Lasorda.

You may think so, Bob, but you haven't eaten nearly as much pasta as Lasorda has. Makes a big difference.

By the way, is this a real quote or did you make it up?

"This was one tough pope...."

Either way, I'm in tears.

2005-04-07 13:35:39
77.   Icaros
LOL, Marty.
2005-04-07 13:39:42
78.   brendan glynn
I think Lasorda said" the Pope couldn't hit water if he fell outta a boat"
2005-04-07 13:41:33
79.   Bob Timmermann
Nope that was pretty close to a verbatim transcript of Lasorda on "This Week".

Vin Scully was a major donor to the new Cathedral downtown. You would think he could have commented a bit more eloquently.

When I was at the Cathedral for the first time, I was looking at the names of all the donors (Riordan, Schwarzenegger, etc.) and I pointed to my friend "Look, it's the Sandy and Vincent Scully Priest's Changing Room". Then a friendly docent came up to me and told me that he could help me find my name on the wall of donors.
I wanted to reply, "Well, good morning to you wherever you may be on this fine Sunday morning. We're here at Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral. Pull up a pew and we'll be having a fine Mass today. The Cardinals are in today. Cardinal Roger Mahony that is. Should be a good one. We'll be right back..."

2005-04-07 13:43:34
80.   Icaros
Vin would've called him Rabbi John Paul, I'm afraid.

Bless his heart.

2005-04-07 13:49:41
81.   Nolan
Sadly, at the end of the day, I think Moneyball has exposed a cultural gap that just can't be bridged...I hope I am wrong about that but I haven't seen too many people switch sides - which is always a sign that neither side is thinking rationally...
2005-04-07 13:50:24
82.   gvette
Did Tommy comment that the Pope was a "Five Tool Pontiff", and that he, Frank Sinatra, and the Pope spent a lot of time together?
2005-04-07 13:54:33
83.   Bob Timmermann
I think he mentioned trading that he wanted to trade the Pope for Jeff Shaw once.
2005-04-07 14:01:57
84.   gvette
Bob,
You may have that confused with the Carlos Perez/Cardinal Mahoney deal. Cathedral contributor Peter O'Malley stepped in to stop that deal.
2005-04-07 14:02:09
85.   Jon Weisman
Just checking in quickly after lunch - you guys are cracking me up. Especially Bob's Lasorda/Vin stories.
2005-04-07 14:03:50
86.   Jonathan
You can listen to the Las Vegas 51's game opening the Pacific Coast League season at
3:55pm PT, today, at:

http://www.sportsjuice.com/

I'm so down. I really like the Dodger's group of minor leaguers at the top level as far as being solid emergency replacements and September callups. At least offensively.

Nakamura and Repko probably will see lots of time in the majors. Myrow and Rose have a solid track record of high OBP. Schrager and Flores seem useful. Oscar Robles, with whom the Dodgers have an agreement that they will bring him up from the Mex. league if they need him (I think), has hit a ton of singles and his fare share of doubles while walking like crazy and never striking out (like 3 to 9 percent of his PAs!)
Chin-Feng Chen, Mike Edwards, Henri Stanley, Cody Ross, and younger prospects Willy Aybar and Dioner Navarro all look pretty solid.

What do you guys think about this group?

2005-04-07 14:05:19
87.   DodgerJoe
I searched today's LA Times for Bill Plascke's retractment of yesterday's article where he mentioned that Beltre and Cora would've made more plays than Valentin and Kent (fabulous defense last night, especially with 2 out and RISP).

It's funny, but I couldn't find it. I guess he was too busy researching his next article about how the Dodgers somehow slighted the Pope out of his season seats behind home plate.

2005-04-07 14:06:41
88.   Suffering Bruin
I read the article Enders posted in #13. I had to write the author...

Carl,

I read your article in the Chronicle on Jeff Kent. You wrote that he had a strange assessment of Omar Vizquel's play by attributing to him this quote:

"I've seen him make it before, and I don't doubt that he could make it again," he said. "I don't think it was that great. I think it's what he does. There's dozens of guys who can make that play. Some guys can make plays look harder than they really are."

Is Kent a jerk for saying that? He might very well be but he also added this: "Omar is a guy who can do both. He can make a play look harder than it is and he can make a tough play look easier than it is."

By quoting him selectively and calling him out for making a "strange assessment", you not so subtly implied that Kent is a jerk for not appreciating a great play. If you quote him in full, it's clear that the opposite is true.

Perhaps you think it's trivial that I'm pointing this out but I see this as the absolute definition of a writer misquoting an athlete. Either way, Jeff Kent, like anyone, deserved to be quoted in full context.

Best,

Clay Landon
Los Angeles

2005-04-07 14:08:52
89.   Dr Love
Why didn't you thank him for taking shots at Plaschke and Simers?
2005-04-07 14:11:28
90.   ElysianPark62
Kent wears a moustache in honor of his brother, who is a cop. No kidding.

Also, Kruk is Mike Krukow, former Gnat pitcher, not John Kruk.

The Gnats have some of the most unprofessional homers in the game. Vin goes out of his way to praise the other team, including the Gnats. He did so last night on a catch by Torcato. (Actually, he appeared to drop the ball.)

You'd NEVER hear Gnat or SD announcers praise the Dodgers for anything.

2005-04-07 14:11:31
91.   brendan glynn
Dodgers should move their AAA team out of Vegas. The pitchers lose their confidence and the batter's numbers are inflated. If you have a choice why put them in an environment so much different from Dodger stadium.
2005-04-07 14:11:33
92.   bigcpa
this just in...

David Ross is expected to get his first start of the season behind the plate tonight against Jake Peavy and the Padres.

2005-04-07 14:12:33
93.   Jonathan
On the topic of sports interviews, check out this hilarious analysis by Steve Martin entitled "Sports Interview Shocker".

http://www.compleatsteve.com/essays/sportsinterview.htm

2005-04-07 14:14:05
94.   FirstMohican
Either way, Jeff Kent, like anyone, deserved to be quoted in full context.

Anyone with a hilarious moustache who physically confronts Barry Bonds deserves to be quoted correctly.

2005-04-07 14:14:47
95.   Bob Timmermann
When the Pope had a Mass at Dodger Stadium (1987, I think), Peter O'Malley had a 2-game series with the Reds switched to being a doubleheader so there would be more time to set up the stadium. That may have been the last regularly scheduled doubleheader at Dodger Stadium

My parents got to go and their seats were on the Dodger Stadium field. I asked them what the field was like. My mom said, "Grassy".

I believe the altar set up for the Pope was in center field. It helped that there was DiamondVision.

2005-04-07 14:17:25
96.   Jonathan
The Bruce Springsteen concert at Dodger Stadium in '03 was the most important religious experience of my life.
2005-04-07 14:18:12
97.   Jonathan
I wonder if Eric Enders made it to the Springsteen concert.
2005-04-07 14:18:42
98.   Bob Timmermann
Anyone remember what happened the only time Dodger Stadium played host to boxing?

Bob Dylan knows.

2005-04-07 14:20:07
99.   Steve
Just read the Bay Area piece from #13. This is what one would call in politics good old-fashioned "backscratching." T.J. Simers will have to make his own decision as to its "credibility."

http://slate.msn.com/id/2112657

2005-04-07 14:20:22
100.   ElysianPark62
Kent's dad was also a cop, too. I'm beginning to like him more with his shoving Simers' b.s. right back at him.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-04-07 14:22:57
101.   Sam DC
Answer to #98

http://www.expectingrain.com/dok/who/m/mooredavey.html

never knew that story

2005-04-07 14:31:58
102.   brendan glynn
Funny story(to me) about that springsteen concert at dodger stadium. Had a bit too much to drink in the parking lot before and when I first walked in Jeff garland(fat guy from Curb Your Enthusiam) walked by. Normally I let it go but I jumped in front of him and screamed "Jeff!!!" He nearly dropped his hot dog. Immediately I had what I thought was a moment of clarity and said "Oh, wait your name is not Jeff" Thinking it was just his characters name..but of course he and his character are both named Jeff. The look on his face and the fact that he had to yell 'yes, my name is Jeff" before brushing past me is a treasured memory.

If we ever have a Breckin Meyer thread(Clueless and 100 t.v. pilots) i'll tell my story "meeting/frigtening" him at Lakers game.

2005-04-07 14:32:45
103.   Icaros
People have been predicting that Kent and Bradley will be at each other's throats by season's end, but after hearing this cop stuff I'm really starting to envision the two as a Hollywood white/black cop duo, a la every police movie ever made.

Kent the clean-cut, straight-laced, no-nonsense veteran, Bradley the talented but on-the-edge rookie.

Sure they will argue at times, but in the end they'll realize that they are really each other's closest friend.

TJ and Bill P are, of course, scum-sucking, criminal, drug-lord, child-molesting murderers.

2005-04-07 14:39:24
104.   the OZ
I picture Kent and Bradley as Bacardi and Cola from the rum ads.
2005-04-07 14:40:51
105.   gvette
Re#98/101

In the early years the O'Malleys apparently had no problem hosting potentially dangerous sporting events, including laying out a race track in the Stadium parking lot.

Next time you're crawling in traffic after a game, imagine Cobras chasing Vettes at 120 mph through the parking lot.

2005-04-07 14:46:51
106.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Anyone remember what happened the only time Dodger Stadium played host to boxing?
Of course, the follow-up trivia questions are: "Why?" an' "What's the reason for?"
I know this is a Dylan song, but I'll always associate it with Pete Seeger.
2005-04-07 14:55:29
107.   Steve
Icaros,

What did the scum-sucking, criminal, drug-lord, child-molesting murderers ever do to you to merit that comparison?

2005-04-07 15:05:55
108.   Icaros
I learned it by watching you, Steve.
2005-04-07 15:22:45
109.   zappala
Way back at the beginning of this thread, someone posted that they were "baffled" by the situation with Beltre. I think his signing with Seattle and the seeming miscommunication with the Dodgers can be chalked up to one factor: Scott Boros. It is not surprising to me at all that he would have his client sign with another team for a small increase in contract value, or otherwise take what he can get when he sees a good offer. He has one thing in mind only: getting a great deal for his players. He is not working for the Dodgers and has no concern about making sure they can retain one of their homegrown players. The Dodgers are certainly not the first team that this has happened to.
2005-04-07 15:25:41
110.   Eric Enders
Jonathan (#97) -- I wish. I wish.

Is it just me, or does "Five-Tool Pontiff" sound kinda nasty, like some strange gadget I'd find at my local porno shop?

2005-04-07 15:27:33
111.   molokai
Dodger outing is a great idea. Putting the faces to the names would be interesting. I'd vote for a midweek day game since it is obvious that no one here actually works during the day.
2005-04-07 15:32:10
112.   Eric Enders
"The Gnats have some of the most unprofessional homers in the game. Vin goes out of his way to praise the other team, including the Gnats. He did so last night on a catch by Torcato. (Actually, he appeared to drop the ball.)

You'd NEVER hear Gnat or SD announcers praise the Dodgers for anything."

---------

I just have to say, I can't believe that's actually a serious post. In my experience (and I've heard the announcers for all 30 teams), the Giants have by far -- BY FAR -- the best and most professional TV announcing duo in baseball. (Vin, of course, is in a class by himself, and he's no duo.)

Krukow and Kuiper are funny, intelligent, well-spoken, and professional. They're not shy about showering compliments on the other team's players. If you listened to the SF announcers last year, you would think that Cesar Izturis is Seated at the Right Hand of God or something. They appear to think that highly of him. Beltre too.

Seriously, that comment was not just out of left field, it was out of the stadium altogether.

2005-04-07 15:36:58
113.   Bob Timmermann
I would agree with Eric. Krukow and Kuiper are pretty even-handed and have nice rapport too.

Now the Padre announcers are another matter, but we thankfully don't get much exposure to them since the Padres aren't part of the Extra Innings package. They are on MLB.tv.

As for their radio announcers, Ted Leitner is my sworn enemy and I will make it my goal that his dream will always go unfulfilled.

2005-04-07 15:42:41
114.   Icaros
I'd vote for a midweek day game since it is obvious that no one here actually works during the day.

We may not be "working", but our employers across the office don't know that. A mid-week day game would be a risk of Ferris Bueller-like proportions for many of us.

And, after growing up in the Bay Area, I'm surprised to hear anyone defend the Giants announcers as the best and most professional TV announcing duo in baseball. To me, they have never been funny, intelligent, well-spoken, and professional; in fact, they are one of the main reasons why I detest the Giants so much to this day.

I can't claim to have heard the broadcasters for all 30 teams, but if the Giants duo is the best, then there must be some really terrible garbage being transmitted over the airwaves.

2005-04-07 15:50:11
115.   Bob Timmermann
Those Devil Rays announcers are the real homers!
2005-04-07 15:57:14
116.   Jonathan
Correction from post #86:
4:55pm not 3:55, oops.

You can listen to the Las Vegas 51's game opening the Pacific Coast League season at
4:55pm PT, today, at:

http://www.sportsjuice.com/

2005-04-07 16:02:28
117.   molokai
We may not be "working", but our employers across the office don't know that. A mid-week day game would be a risk of Ferris Bueller-like proportions for many of us.

Didn't Ferris have one of the greatest days of his life and isn't that what living is all about? Honestly the midweek day games are the best. No one goes so you can sit anywhere and all the old guys are rested.

2005-04-07 16:06:23
118.   Icaros
No one goes so you can sit anywhere and all the old guys are rested.

Are you saying that the Giants would sit their entire starting lineup?

2005-04-07 16:06:43
119.   Eric Enders
"if the Giants duo is the best, then there must be some really terrible garbage being transmitted over the airwaves."
-------

On that, I think we can all agree. Growing up listening to Vinny, I was shocked when I moved to a new area, subscribed to the EI package, and discovered that the announcers for almost every other team completely suck.

2005-04-07 16:07:17
120.   jasonungar05
"I say this from the bottom of my heart, that if you don't root for the Dodgers, you might not get into Heaven."

- Tommy Lasoda

2005-04-07 16:10:37
121.   jasonungar05
Sorry..have to include these. this is all in attempt to find my favorite:

I wil trade my wife Jo before I trade Chan Ho

"I'm in a slump. I go to bed and I'm hungry. I sit down at the table and I get romantic." - Tommy Lasorda, LA Dodgers manager

"There really is a Big Dodger in the Sky and I think he has come down and taken over Hersheiser's body." - Tommy Lasorda, after Hersheiser's eighth no-run job in ten starts 1988

"I knew June was Pedro [Guerrero]'s favorite month, so I told him that in the U.S., June had sixty days. I'd see him in July and say, 'Well, Pedro, it's June 52 and I see you're still hot.'" - Los Angeles Dodgers Manager Tommy Lasorda, after Pedro Guerrero hit 15 home runs in June and .460 in July

"If he raced his pregnant wife he'd finish third." - Los Angeles Dodgers manager Tommy Lasorda, on catcher Mide Scioscia, 1988

2005-04-07 16:13:29
122.   gvette
"Is it just me,or does "Five Tool Pontiff" sound kind of nasty, like some strange gadget I'd find at my local porno shop?"

Sounds like an invitation for another round of comments about the 80's Porn Star mustaches in the Dodger Clubhouse.

"Ted Leitner is my sworn enemy..."

Ted had to have been the inspiration for those moron San Diego newscasters in Will Ferrell's Anchorman movie.

2005-04-07 16:28:13
123.   Eric Enders
The quote about Scioscia's pregnant wife was great. Even better was when Fernando was holding out prior to the 1982 season, and Lasorda was asked what Fernando's contract demands were:

"He wants Texas back."

2005-04-07 16:31:31
124.   Sam NYC
Talk of Tommy and Vin has got me thinking:

Who are the Dodgers who will carry that tradition? As the team as sold to different owners, who maintains the voice and tone of the team?

I would have thought guys like Hershiser and Scioscia and Sax and Garvey, but they were allowed to go to other franchises. And while the LADs have continued to bring up good talent, it all seems to end up somewhere else (i.e. Beltre, LoDuca, Pedro, Piazza). I don't mean to say that the LADs are eroding (I wouldn't want to sound like Plaschke) but I'm just asking where all the family-like tradition goes when Tommy and Vin are gone.

2005-04-07 16:33:18
125.   Sam NYC
"No one's gonna be afraid of a guy named Orel. Let's call him Bulldog."

Tommy

2005-04-07 16:34:18
126.   Eric Enders
#124: Jaime Jarrin?
2005-04-07 16:39:01
127.   Sam NYC
La biografía breve: Jaime Jarrin era un periodista en Quito, Ecuador, antes de venir a Angeles de Los en 1955. El anunció su primer juego del béisbol en 1958. Esto es la temporada 44th de Jarrin en el puesto. Jaime dibuja los retratos de Ross Porter entre entradas.

Nuestra opinión: Aunque Jarrin habla el español, él es más entendible a la gente anglófona que Rick Monday. También, Jarrin tiene más poder que Alex Cora. Un rumor dice que Jarrin tiene tres elefantes en casa. Jarrin toma el micrófono al cuarto de baño con él. Verdaderamente, Jarrin es un zapato.

El nivel de la molestia (la escala de 1 to 10): Cinco

2005-04-07 16:42:18
128.   Eric Enders
Hey, a Naked Gun reference!
2005-04-07 16:43:49
129.   Icaros
Sam NYC,

What you speak of in #124 seems to be true of just about every organization today. Rampant free agency and big money contracts have replaced family-like tradition.

I think the fans themselves will left with the task of maintaining the voice and tone of the team.

2005-04-07 16:52:20
130.   Sam NYC
Icaros,

Are the fans capable of doing that without management obliging? I mean, if the fans continue to think of it as a classy organization that does things the right way but then the organization goes out and trades for John Rocker and Barry Bonds and a host of other scumbags, how much validity does it have?

Every team has a character and an ethic, and it's really not hard to continue one as deep as the LADs. It actually is harder to destroy it. But who are the torch bearers for the LADs once Tommy and Vin are gone? I imagine there will be someone and whoever it is will be unexpected.

2005-04-07 16:53:24
131.   Bob Timmermann
I nominate Tommy Naccarato as the new symbol of Dodger tradition.
2005-04-07 16:58:36
132.   Eric Enders
"Rampant free agency and big money contracts have replaced family-like tradition."
------

Right, that great family-like tradition where you sell Jackie Robinson to the Giants. Or Duke Snider to the Metskis.

Seriously, it always cracks me up when people make statements like that. Icaros's sentiments seem to be shared by the majority of fans, which is weird since they are demonstrably untrue. My theory is that many people share these sentiments because they are essentially jealous of baseball players being paid market value. (No offense intended there, Icaros -- I don't mean you personally.)

People have actually studied this issue thoroughly, and those studies have found that players nowadays change teams with the exact same frequency that they did before the free agency era. The only difference is now it's the players deciding where they go, instead of the owners deciding where they go.

Honestly, baseball history is riddled with hundreds of examples of situations where loyalty was not honored. If anything, the baseball business was more ruthless (or "disloyal") in the old days than it is now... for example, witness the rich contracts given out in recent years to players who had little or nothing left to contribute on the field, whose only remaining value was in their status as franchise figureheads: Bagwell, Biggio, Larkin, Ripken, etc. Back in the old days those guys would have been sold down the river like Babe Ruth and Willie Mays were.

2005-04-07 16:59:10
133.   Mr Customer
#127

Icaros,

That myth about wildlife is pure speculation and uncorroborated, but the part about broadcasting from the restroom stall is true enough (better acoustics)

2005-04-07 17:01:43
134.   Mr Customer
That comment was meant for Sam, not Icaros, 1001 apologies.
2005-04-07 17:02:55
135.   Jon Weisman
New game chat thread is open. Feel free to continue ongoing conversations here, though, if you like.
2005-04-07 17:05:09
136.   Jacob L
This just may be my favorite thread ever.

I'm down for the get together. I love the Short Stop. Loved it even more in its pre-hipster cop bar days. Jeff Kent might've joined us. Would prefer to El Cholo, but whatever.

Any advice, though, on how to overcome the "Hey, honey, I wanna go meet some guys from the internet," thing with my wife?

2005-04-07 17:07:31
137.   Jon Weisman
Start by saying, "Hey, honey, I wanna go meet some girls from the Internet." When you backtrack, she'll be relieved.

Or not.

2005-04-07 17:27:11
138.   Icaros
For the record, Eric, I was really just trying to provide an answer to Sam's question, dreadfully wrong as that answer may have been.

Personally, I don't concern myself much with tradition and who will be the voice of the organization. I just want the team to win.

2005-04-07 17:33:14
139.   Eric Enders
I suspected that, Icaros, which is why I said I wasn't talking about you.

I like tradition as much as the next guy. Probably like it more than the next guy, actually. But it bugs me (more than it should) when people wax poetic about long-ago baseball tradition and loyalty that never actually existed.

2005-04-07 17:56:27
140.   Jon Ericson
Re: #127

Who translated Los Angeles as "Angeles de Los"? Is this some tortured Angels reference or just an automated translator goof?

2005-04-08 00:42:59
141.   Tommy Naccarato
Sorry I missed out on the dealings of the evening--I just got in!

First-I hearby ACCEPT the nomination, if you guys will have me, for setting-up the get-together. I would also like to add a co-chair(s) to this....Icaros and Timmerman are my nominations.

Depending on the size of the event and if where and when we want it, El Cholo-Western, Pasadena, Santa Monica, La Habra or Irvine are more then likely capable of holding 1-400 (judging from last nights posts! :) )

I have some ideas and am willing to hear all of the others, but all of this happens on one condition......

Timmerman has to promise not to wear his 1975 Dodger-Pepsi fan club tee shirt. Rumors persist that he has never washed it--never, not once. I for one don't want to smell that shirt from across the room. I'm sure the other patrons of El Cholo would concur!

Now, since the only updates I could get on the game during my meeting were from my MMode on my phone, when I saw that score, I wanted to scream and cheer. So, I'm back, but only while holding my breath everytime a ground ball goes shooting to 3rd base!

Go Blue!

BTW, Finley hit the game winner tonight for the Angels. I hate the Angels, but not as much as I hate the Giants and the Yankees!

2005-04-08 00:47:59
142.   Tommy Naccarato
Also, if anyone would like to email me there thoughts on this affair, you can do so at a specially set-up Google Mail account at:

tommynacc@gmail.com

2005-04-08 09:04:22
143.   Vishal
i'm down with el cholo. just let me know when and which one.

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