I always liked Lopes as a player, but it sounds like he thinks the pointy-heads are conspiring to keep him down. Well, if Frank Robinson gets elevated to GM over in D.C. I'm betting he'd hire him

Isn't new Padres head honcho/savior Sandy Alderson an "Ivy league type guy" (Dartmouth) who never played MLB?

Guess Davey doesn't much care for making a good first impression with the new boss.

Random Dodger game callback

May 10, 1916

The red hot Brooklyn Robins ran their season record to a blazing 11-4 with a 4-0 shutout over Cincinnati behind some great pitching by Jeff Pfeffer. Pfeffer allowed just 6 hits and notched the first of his six shutouts on the season.

Dodgers hitting star Zack Wheat sat out the game in Cincinnati, but his backup Jimmy Johnston singled in Hy Myers (who would hit the first World Series home run for the Dodgers) with the first run of the game and that was all the Robins would need. The Dodgers were ½ game ahead of Boston at the end of the day. The archrival Giants were in the cellar at 4-13, but would be able to put together a 26-game win streak late in the season to get them to fourth place. But 1916 would belong to Wilbert Robinson's Brooklyn squad, who edged out the defending champion Phillies by 2 ½ games. It would be the first NL flag for Brooklyn since 1900. The Dodgers would lose in the World Series to the Boston Red Sox in 5 games. Brooklyn's only win came in Game 3.

The 1916 Brooklyn squad led the NL in BA, OBP, and SLG and finished second in runs scored. In addition to Hall of Famer Wheat, first baseman Jake Daubert had a good year sporting a .371 OBP and slugging .397, high totals for the Deadball Era. Another Hall of Famer who played for the Dodgers that year was right fielder Casey Stengel, who would achieve his fame in another uniform many years later. Also popping in that year was Fred Merkle. (The justifiably infamous Hal Chase was playing for the Reds on May 10, 1916.) Longtime Dodger pitcher Nap Rucker, who pitched 10 years for Brooklyn, most of them great years for terrible teams, got into 9 games in the regular season and manager Robinson was able to give Rucker a brief appearance in the World Series. After the year was over, Rucker had to retire at the ripe old age of 30. An additional Hall of Famer who played for Brooklyn in 1916 was Rube Marquard.

The Dodgers also had an outfielder named Jim Hickman play 9 games in 1916. Another Jim Hickman would play for the Dodgers in 1967.

Thanks to the New York Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

Sorry I missed last night. Great comments all around.

Sometimes I wonder if people like Lopes say things just to ensure it gets picked up and run by "the media" (meaning every thing not a blog, hahaha). Sort of playing up to the system to get heard.

Hell of a base stealer, maybe the best behind only Beltran/R Henderson in my book. Good offensive player but never liked how he played 2b. Least favorite player of the great teams from 73-81 not because of ability just based on the fact he took my favorite players job and being 14 at the time I never forgave him. Plus the Jim Bouton incident proved he was the A-Hole I always thought he was.

Davey Lopes was a Gold Glover.

At least for one year.

Jim Murray thought Lopes should have been named MVP of the 1981 World Series. I dare anyone who remembers that series to justify that selection.

Does this scouts vs. stats storyline continue to get play because of the inherent tension in the topic? The point of unearthing past stars to have them draw a line in the sand, and in the process show their ignorance on the topic, is lost on me. A statistical measure reflects a tendency for something to occur. I would imagine the concept of a player's tendencies is pretty obvious to anyone involved in the game. For example, managers and players are given a scouting report or know from experience that pitcher A has a tendency to throw his splitter in 2 strike situations. Statistics are just a tool to provide a more precise reflection of that tendency: pitcher A throws his splitter 68% of the time in a 2 strike situation. This information is used to make informed baseball decisions and instead of just being based on one or a couple people's experience (coaching staff) it incorporates their knowledge and all the events that they miss or were never around to witness.

I guess its just human nature to stereotype without first hand inspection, especially if the topic is something unfamiliar or daunting, as is probably the case for most athletes (i.e. a bad experience with mathematics while growing up). Unfortunately, a willingness or ability to find a common ground with statistically-minded baseball analysts seems difficult for most "old-schoolers" and, as Jon mentions, will limit job opportunities for those clinging to the old religion as the new cult spreads throughout the league.

Sorry for the rant, but the "Moneyball debate" and the thought of giving Scott Erickson 20-25 starts is getting to me.

Sorry, just noticed that I apparently have a fondness for commas when I get worked up.

Jim Murray thought Lopes should have been named MVP of the 1981 World Series...

Don't tell Steve Garvey, who mistakenly tried to make off with the tri MVP trophy. "Oh you mean Steve...Yeager won the award?" With guys like Bobby Brown, Reuschel, George Frazier and Larry Milbourne, the 81 Yankees had to be the worst Bronx WS team since WWII.

Great job by Steve at FJT reviewing the Slate article. How have guys like Stu Nahan, Vic the Brick, Plaschke, etc fooled the public for years into thinking they're "sports authorities"?

Sure did like Davey Lopes as a player. If he wants to be stubbornly old-school, well, he's earned the right to be whatever he wants, in my book.

As an old "pointy-headed" Ivy Leaguer myself, I have little to add to the 'Moneyball' debate except to note that the sabermetric approach to GM-ing will probably decrease in effectiveness the more widely it is adopted. The more old-school GMs there are who undervalue certain assets, the easier it is to find genuine bargains. But once more or less every GM values every player in more or less the same way, big-budget teams will have the same edge over small-budget teams that they did pre-Billy Beane.

I'll be interested to see how the new security policy works out. I think/hope the most egregious beachball problems will be covered by #2. I'm not militantly against beachballs (just annoyed by them), but I am militantly against spiking them real hard without any regard for whom they might hit (which is what I see happening a lot more now than in the past).

I'm really no more against beachballs than I am against someone sitting in the wrong seat (fan code #6). Which is to say, on most occasions, it's incredibly minor.

Only if it stops being an innocuous act and starts to interfere with people's ability to watch a game - that's when it becomes a problem.

Lately, the thing is, it's been more and more of a problem.

"5. Fans may keep any ball hit into the stands as a souvenir. However, fans must not go onto the field, throw objects onto the field or interfere with balls in play. Violation will result in immediate ejection and/or arrest and prosecution."

Does a beachball being hit onto the field qualify as an object thrown on the field? Does in my book... maybe it's not malicious, but it definitely reflects a lack of common sense, self-restraint, and respect for the game and the other fans trying to enjoy it.

The last time I was at Dodger Stadium they had not started the BB (uh, that would stand for beachball in this case) fascination. I'm curious; has any one witnessed a BB landing on the playing field during a ball-in-play?
I always see the batter step out and the ump call time on TV as if the fans somehow miraculously timed their foolishness so as not to interfere with a b-in-p.

Piggybacking on Doug's point in #10, as the so-called 'Moneyball' principles proliferate (and they will), the role of scouting will re-emphasized. If more than half of the teams start using Baseball Prospectus-type anaylses, it will be the teams with the best scouts that make the best personnel decisions.

When everyone's scouts told them the same things: Jeff Kent is a bad fielder, Choi can't hit [and I'm equating writers' opinions with scouts opinions; in truth I have no idea what scouts actually said about either player], etc., good 'numbers' analysis identified the disconnect and presented a competitive advantage.

When everyone's 'numbers' anaylsis tell them the same things, the advantages will go to whichever teams' scouts can identify growth potential and players whose ability isn't reflected accurately in their stats.

Any manager who pulled the two bonehead moves that LaRussa did last night (running out of a big inning in the first inning, bunting with Jim Edmonds in the sixth) would have gotten his head handed to him.

I think Bissinger and his publisher wanted to sell books, and so manufactured this vehicle into an Anti-Moneyball screed. But that's tired. The best critical work of Moneyball, post-Moneyball, will be that work which looks at the concepts in the book on their own terms. Steven Levitt's work suggesting that Moneyball is nothing new may be right, may be wrong, but no one can deny that it's not interesting and engaging and thoughtful. It's hoary cliche, but you get the sense that most baseball writers (Plaschke, Ringolsby, Olney, etc.) are one step from saying the Earth is flat.

#12 -

Certainly "onto the field" includes anything - but I'm also wondering very much about beachballs that stay in the stands. This is a major preoccupation of the ushers - yet there is nothing that seems to proscribe batting around a beachball that stays off the field.

I'd hate to say this, but I noticed last night that Anaheim has about 10% the number of beach balls in the stands. (I think one came out on the field.) And the game last night was begging for some diversion since hardly anyone got on base. Angel ushers also don't try to confiscate the beach balls. Is the difference in fan behavior a factor of demographics? The Angels do charge more for their tickets than the Dodgers.

Re: the 1981 Yankees. They had a few injuries coming into the World Series and had to play guys like Aurelio Rodriguez at third base in the World Series. They had two good starters in John and Guidry, but they had a clueless manager in Bob Lemon. And they didn't have much in the way of middle or long relief so when guys like Righetti or Reuschel faltered they didn't have much to go to.

But Ron Davis and Rich Gossage were a pretty fearsome combination to face in the 7th-9th innings that year. Davis had 83 Ks in 73 IP in 1981.

Bob, do you think that if Dodger ushers stopped trying to confiscate beach balls, the numbers would decrease?

Probably not, huh?

My dad and I were in the left-field pavilion for a game in the early 90s; sitting in front of us were two parents and their two little girls (neither could have been older than 8; Vin would've loved them).

The little girls had each brought an 8.5x11 inch piece of paper, which they had written "Go Dodgers" on. After three innings the ushers confiscated the homemade signs, citing a no banner rule.

I thought that was a little harsh.

I don't know if this has been covered yet, but since we are talking about "3 Nights in August", does anyone else think its ironic that JD Drew didn't play last night in St. Louis?

The book details LaRussa's questioning of Drew's desire to play and get the most out of his talent. Drew was even on the disabled list during the 3 games against the Cubs detailed in the book.

I'm surprised more hasn't been made of it.

The ushers not confiscating beach balls in Anaheim is a Moreno edict I believe.

But from my memory they didn't try very hard before.

The little girls had each brought an 8.5x11 inch piece of paper, which they had written "Go Dodgers" on. After three innings the ushers confiscated the homemade signs, citing a no banner rule.

That is the most ridiculous thing... I can see not allowing some huge-a$# banner that is going to intefere with other fans, but doesn't Dodger management allow their staff any discretion? Or is it just "them's the rules"... since "banners" must be clearly delineated as forbidden, it was a no-brainer for the "No-Brainer"... the ushers must look like deer-in-headlights when a beachball is hit on the field.

How long would it take for the average fan to get over a "no beachball" rule? About 2 games would be my estimate.

I think the usher enforcing the "no banner" rule may have been drunk with power in that situation. Most of the banner restrictions at Dodger Stadium are by order of the Fire Marshal.

I will bet that a distinct portion of the crowd will boo any PSAs about crowd conduct, although the majority will applaud. I think some of the goons at the games would have the audacity to boo Scully and Jarrin.

If not for the accidental shooting of innocent people danger, I think it would be great fun for the ushers to be equipped with BB guns to shoot offending beach balls.

As it is now, they have to try to chase the balls down, and they just end up looking like the kids who got picked on in school.

If BB guns came into play, I'd drive up there tomorrow and apply for a job (unless Jet Blue ends up calling).

I like our Usher named Jon but all he enforces are the simple rules that he can handle, such as keep your hands off the screen, don't point cameras over the screen, and then the chase of BB's. Several years ago the poor guy who is over 60 broke his leg chasing down a beach ball. To enforce the security issues they need security people.

Several games ago at fire works night, we had a large fellow show up in the 2nd inning, drunk as a skunk, with a beer in hand. He then proceeded to head back up for a beer, yakked all over the steps and they let him stay. After sitting still one inning he got up to get another beer, staggered and yakked all over the fan's feet right behind them. Only then did they escort him out. This is the lodge section. If it wasn't for the people below in the field section I think he would have been rolled over the balcony. It was a great sight for the two kids who won a prize from my wife's 4th grade class to go to the game. I'm sure they had quite a story to tell their parents that evening.
Went to Petco twice last year. Pleasant experience each time.

Yeah, but they can't hit home runs in Petco.

You want home runs? You deal with fat puking drunks.

From the Dodger Stadium A-to-Z guide (and posted at stadium entrances):

"Contraband items not allowed in the stadium include: glass bottles, cans, weapons, poles, umbrellas, backpacks, 14 inch or larger purses or bags, coolers, thermoses, beachballs, inflatables… Contraband items not allowed in the stadium include: banners, signs, flags, use of laser pointers, firecrackers/fireworks, boom boxes, air horns, whistles, musical instruments and pets."

Why did the Cards double steal with two outs and the pitcher up last night? I mean it worked, and more power to the Cards for getting two runners into scoring position on the play, but Mulder has to be one of the worst hitting pitchers in baseball, so it's not like he was going to knock them in. This weighed against the odds of one of the runners getting thrown out attempting to steal and having Mulder lead off didn't seem like such a wise move. I was listening on the radio and there was no real comment about the strategy or lack of it on this play. Any thoughts?

vr

Xeifrank

Interestingly, the Angels do allow banners:

Here is their regulation:
Banners & Signs:
All banners and signs brought into the ballpark must meet the following guidelines: they must be baseball related and in good taste (as determined by Angels Baseball L.P.) cannot be commercial, political or obscene in nature, or represent a disturbance or inconvenience to others. They are not allowed anywhere within the playing field or cover up any advertising within the ballpark. Banners and signs cannot be affixed to any ballpark wall, staff or pole and cannot be carried during the game because they will obstruct the view of other Guests. Banners must be limited in size to 3 feet tall by 12 feet wide and be made of a fire retardant material.

This is the Angels Code of Behavior:
The event staff at the ballpark are here to make sure that guests are provided with a safe, comfortable and enjoyable atmosphere. To ensure the comfort, safety and enjoyment of everyone at the game or event, Guests must maintain appropriate behavior at all times.

1. Guests wearing obscene or indecent clothing, as determined by Angels Baseball L.P., will not be admitted inside the ballpark.
2. Guests smoking in unauthorized locations, intoxicated or using foul, abusive language or gestures are subject to ejection from the ballpark.
3. Guests are not allowed on the playing field or the batter's eye area in center field at any time. Any Guest entering these areas, interrupting play in any manner or chasing after a baseball in an area that is off-limits can be ejected and/or cited for trespassing and is subject to arrest.
4. Objects may not be thrown or tossed into the seating area or onto the field at any time. Throwing any object into the seating area or onto the field is strictly prohibited. Violations of this nature will result in immediate ejection from the ballpark and subsequent legal action.
5. Guests interfering with other Guests' ability to enjoy the game will be subject to ejection

The Angels allow tailgating in the parking lot, but you can't have alcohol and you can't use charcoal in your barbecue.

My favortie vendor last night, who had just one bottle of lemonade left to sell was yelling "I've got a bottle with just 3% juice in it! Guaranteed 3% juice!"

The Padres have a briefer code of conduct:
The San Diego Padres and their contracted service partners are committed to creating a safe, comfortable and enjoyable ballpark experience for all guests. Guests are asked to follow the following Guest Code of Conduct:
» The progress of the game or event will not be disrupted by any guest's actions or by unauthorized persons entering the playing field or restricted areas
» Guests are asked not to wear any inappropriate or indecent clothing that would detract from the guest experience
» Guests may enjoy the ballpark experience free from foul or abusive language or obscene gestures
» Guests are asked to refrain from displays of affection inappropriate in a public, family setting
» Guests are asked to present their ticket when requested and sit only in their ticketed locations

The San Diego Padres reserve the right to remove any guest who chooses not to adhere to this Guest Code of Conduct.

The Angels let you bring in food as long as it's not too bulky and you can bring up to 1 liter of water. The Padres limit your water to a 20 oz bottle and if you bring in fruit, it has to be sliced up ahead of time so it cannot be used as a projectile. There really is no place to tailgate in San Diego.

Milwaukee, where tailgating is pretty much the highlight of any Brewers game, allows you to pretty much eat and drink at will. The only restriction is that if you take up two parking spaces, they will come by and charge you for the second one.

Re: "Moneyball" vs. "Old School Types"...

I know folks are tired of the over-simplified, manufactured dichotomy that's been forced onto this. But I kinda think it's okay.. if for no other reason than that it sets the current sport into an interesting context. Fake, maybe, but still interesting.

Example: my wife's not a sportsfan, but she's not a sports-hater, either. She'll watch a game with me, but only if I can help season the game with underlying tensions and dramas to try and make the whole thing more interesting for her on a human (non-sports-fan) level. Toward that end, I've been making great hay out of this whole "'Moneyball'-types-vs.-the-Old-School-types" thing. And it does keep her interested.

It doesn't matter if it's true or not. Everyone likes a good story.

Guests are asked to refrain from displays of affection inappropriate in a public, family setting

I imagine the SkyDome adopted this policy a few years back.

re:27

I think Grudz stole on his own and the runner at 1st followed. Perez is very slow to the plate and tips off when he's going home with a lean back. I imgagine Grudz being the veteran, knew it was a given to take 3rd and finally did it. He went in standing very easily.

If LaRussa sent the sign in, it had to be because he saw the same thing and knew there was probably a 90% success rate for it.

And from some more of the angrier stadiums in America:
Fenway Park
Any fan that directly or indirectly interferes with the enjoyment of the game will be promptly ejected from Fenway Park and may be subject to arrest and prosecution by the Boston Police. The Boston Red Sox do not condone misbehavior of any kind. Fans are also reminded that anyone observed with offensive articles included signs, shirts, hats, etc. may be asked to remove/discard them. Failure to comply with such a request will result in immediate ejection from the park. The Red Sox will continue to make every effort to ensure socially acceptable behavior in order to allow fans to enjoy the game in comfort.

Yankee Stadium is similar:
The Yankees are dedicated to serving our Guests, and to providing a high-quality entertainment experience at Yankee Stadium. Guests interfering with a ball in play, using foul language, making obscene gestures, smoking, or appearing to be in an inebriated condition will be ejected from the ballpark. In addition, any fan entering the field of play or throwing objects in the stands or onto the field, with the exception of home run balls, will face arrest and prosecution. If someone is interfering with your enjoyment of the game, please contact an usher or Guest Services Representative.

I liked this part from Detroit's list of prohibited behaviors:
- Guests displaying extreme acts of public affection will be asked to refrain from such;

The Cubs seemed to not have any code of conduct on its website.
The Giants tell you to just ask an usher if you have any questions.
The A's allow fans to bring in whiskbrooms only on days that the team is going for a series sweep. Push brooms are not allowed.

What should we set the over/under at on number of innings Erickson will last tonight.

I will throw out 4 2/3 for starters.

vr

Xeifrank

Disclaimer: I hope I am wrong.

Codes of conduct:

How about looking up some of the stadium codes of conduct at European or South American soccer stadiums. Probably would look something like this.

1. No fan may bring in a knife no longer than 10 inches in length.

2. Molitov cocktails must be no heavier than 1 pound.

3. Only one pair of brass knuckles per fan.

4. All bottles must be disposed of by throwing them at the opposing teams goalkeeper.

Re: #31
And how! Although, on the other hand, you'd think the Jays could charge extra for the show. Value added, yes?

27, 32 -- I agree with 32. I had time to shout "Turn around you idiot!" before Perez ever delivered the ball to the plate. If I remember right, there were two outs and Perez was just focused on getting the pitcher to get out of the inning. The steals were superfluous -- the sort of thing that keeps Joe Morgan happy, so you might as well do them.

Erickson will not last three innings tonight. We will need to score runs to win.

"The Yankees are dedicated to serving our Guests, and to providing a high-quality entertainment experience at Yankee Stadium. Guests interfering with a ball in play, using foul language, making obscene gestures, smoking, or appearing to be in an inebriated condition will be ejected from the ballpark."

And I am Marie of Rumania.

The SkyDome Hotel has a Code of Conduct that prevents couples from engaging in carnal acts in view of the fans. I believe that if you have a room with a stadium view, you have to sign a contract that you will behave.

Those rooms aren't cheap either.

T.J. Simers hits it out of the park in back to back columns, first about Shaq on Sunday, and then about the DMZ that used to be known as Dodger Stadium today.

I grew up going to Dodgers games in the '70s and '80s and there's just no way I'd take my kids there now. We do go to Anaheim (frequently, actually), but even last year's Dodgers-Angels series there was jerks in Dodgers jerseys trolling through the aisles just looking to provoke someone, anyone.

38 - nice Dorothy Parker reference, there.

I know Steve is probably right with his prediction on Erickson, but I'm going to be optimistic anyway. Maybe a reverse jinx will come into play tonight.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/cy

Bill James' Cy Young predictor has John Garland and Johan Santana #1 and #2 in the AL, and Dontrelle Willis and Mark Mulder #1 and #2 in the NL. No Dodgers crack the top ten list. Anyone think that Garland will be among the top of this list come September?

I know, I know, predicting the Cy Young winner in May is like a basketball score of 10-6, way too early.

vr

Xeifrank

re: #40

I read Simers to get my shock jock fix. To me he's about as entertaining as the callers that read faxes on the Jim Rome show.

Good riddence to Shaqzam, I had no problems with trading him, just problems with the Grant contract they got in return.

Oh wait, Dodgers message board. Shhhhh!

vr

Xeifrank

Though I'm not the first and I'm sure I won't be the last, I'd like to thank everyone involved with the "Ghame Over" T-Shirts, especially Eric and Brendan. The look of confusion on my wife's face as I tried to explain it to her was priceless.

I'm going to wash my "Ghame Over" before I wear it. The dye in it was a little strong for my sensitive nose.

re: #44. I'm sorry I missed out on the "Ghame Over" T-Shirts, but did get the info on the "Team Depot" shirts. I wonder what happens to the shirts when Gagne comes back? Perhaps some new "Ghame Almost Over" shirts will need to be printed?? :)

vr

Xeifrank

A strange line at the end of the LAT story today on Dodger security:

"Dodger spokeswoman Kelly Mullens said the announcement of [the new director of security's] hiring was not a response to last week's incident and said the team had not had a chance to release the information."

Okay, so they don't announce it for five weeks but then do it after a big security incident, when the city's biggest paper is writing a story about the subject. But that's just a coincidence.

And it took five weeks to announce because they "had not had a chance" to announce it before. What? How long does it take to write a press release? What a bizarre organization.

re: #47

What was the big security incident? The home run down the left field line with the fan touching the player?

Or something else?

thanks.

vr

Xeifrank

35.

5. Any and all firearms discharged into the air after a victory must be either semi-automatic or set to single-round discharge. Fans using fully-automatic or burst-fire settings will be asked to leave. (Not so much in Europe, but sure as hell in S.A.)

Xeifrank, it was the whole fracas that happened on $2 night, when the game was delayed because fans were throwing things on the field.

re: 40

I think the bad behaviour (aside from the beach balls) at DS is still limited to certain sections. The pavilion and the field level seats in the corners (as Bob T. has pointed out) aren't the nicest places.

You can still find places to sit at DS without having to worry the conduct of others.

It's a shame that the pavilion (though I guess the rowdy reputation predates me) has become as rowdy as it has. For some families, the $6 seats are all they can afford. I wonder if turning the right field pavilion into a family section, similar to ANA (above the bullpens) would help out?

Lopes, was a great ball player. I miss him

According to ESPN.com, the Giants have placed Jason Schmidt on the 15-day DL with a strained shoulder.

Scott Munter has been recalled from Fresno to replace him.

re: Fans throwing things on the field.

Perhaps security cameras fixed on trouble spots, throwing things on the field and especially at the players isn't too cool. If you can catch the person who did it on tape, I would think a fine or arrest would be pretty easy.

Steve Sax on the otherhand took matters into his own hands and threw things from the field into the stands.

vr

Xeifrank

The issue for me now in going to Dodger Stadium is that I used to go as a way to get away from things. A time to go and enjoy myself away from everyday life.

But now, I go to Dodger Stadium wondering in which way I will be annoyed. Will it be a bunch of people with beach balls? Will it be a guy who decided that Dodger Stadium is a good place to show off his ability to consume 8 beers in a 90-minute span? Will it be hoping that the fans don't decide to throw garbage at someone who is wearing a shirt from another team?

But deep down I think it is the beachballs coming on to the field stopping the game. I paid my money. I want to see a baseball game being played. If there is a sizeable contingent that just wants to go to do something outside of watching a game and doing normal things like cheering and such, then why I should put up with it?

When does the Padres prized prospect Stauffer make his first start?

thanks,

vr

Xeifrank

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) _ The Giants placed ace right-hander Jason Schmidt on the 15-day disabled list Tuesday with a strained right shoulder, the latest injury to a San Francisco star this season.

Will it be a guy who decided that Dodger Stadium is a good place to show off his ability to consume 8 beers in a 90-minute span?

Well, you have to admit that's not an easy thing to do.

That's the sad thing Bob.. I think that most of the people at the games are there to have fun and catch a ballgame.

The few who go and act like idiots dampen the experience for the rest of us.

I don't want to see DS turn into a place like the Oakland Network McAfee Associates Coliseum when the Raiders are at home. The first time I went to a Raiders-Broncos game, I wore a Cal Ripken jersey cause I wasn't gonna wear my Broncos stuff. Some dude wanted to start crap with me because of the orange on the jersey. Chances are, being a Raider fan, he couldn't read. Still...

Annoyances at Dodger stadium:

I have to admit I don't go to many Dodger games any more. Mostly, due to the one hour drive to the stadium with no traffic, two hours on a bad day, plus the nightmare leaving the parking lot afterwards. Seems like every game is televised these days, so why even bother.

Let's see at home we have the sofa and coffee table to prop my feet up on. At Dodger stadium I have the hard chairs which are crammed together with someone kicking the back of your chair. (Winner - Home)

At the stadium we have the beach balls flying onto the field stopping the game. At home, we have the wife asking me to take out the trash (Winner - Even)

At the stadium we have the $20 meal that includes two hot dogs, soda and bag of peanuts. At home, we have the wife's chinese cooking and the refridgerator stocked with soda and other goodies (Winner - Home)

At the stadium we have fans throwing projectiles on to the field and at other fans. At home, we have the baby crawling on the furniture. (Winner - Home)

At the stadium there are no commercial breaks. At home, there are commercial breaks that allow me to watch NBA playoffs and sportscenter highlights and take quick bathroom breaks. (Winner - Home)

I doubt I will make to the stadium again this year, but I still love my team!

vr

Xeifrank

Forget the BB guns. Equip the ushers with tasers and paintball guns.

They can taser the belligerent rube who is inflating the ball (preferably mid-huff); after time, said rube will make the Pavlovian association that inflating beach balls makes you lose control of your bladder and forget the next inning and a half.

Should the offender escape the eagle eye of "security", then comes the paintball gun. See someone standing up in anticipation that the beachball is coming their way? Plug 'em, then tell the peace officers to arrest anyone who looks like they lost a fight with Sherman Williams.

It sounds a bit draconian, but it's all non-lethal. Note that this will also have no effect on the paying customers who actually came to watch the game.

Re nos. 27,32 and 37,

It was Sanders and Taguchi who stole the bases off Perez - not Grudzelianek.

Combined 2004 VORP from Bonds and Schmidt: 202.1

San Francisco record in 2004: 91-71

Combined 2005 VORP from Bonds and Schmidt: 1.5

San Francisco record in 2005: 16-15

In reading the messages on fan behavior and how significantly one's enjoyment appears to be affected by it, I've found myslef wondering how old this board is? Some of you really sound like crotchety misers. Sure, some of these things can be a tad annoying if they interfere with some dramatic moment, but this is baseball! Being there is half the joy. Some of those drunken, obnoxious fans are the same breed I went up and down the aisles high-fiving and hugging after Finley's slam or Milton's GW RBIs. These Dodgers fans, some of you so condescendingly put down, are passionate and loyal, and that's much more than you can say for the bandwagon, thin-blooded Angels fan. You know what you never see? An Angels tatoo on someone's scalp! If you want a peaceful, lazy day at the ballpark, then I'd rather you stay at home with Vinnie anyways...or better yet, find yourself a minor league club to follow, complete with demure crowds and casual fans. I bet you leave during the 7th inning stretch too. Bah!

Jeff Fassero, who started the only game I ever saw at Montreal's Olympic Stadium (in 1993), gets the start for the Giants tonight.

And from my experience, fans at Oakland Athletics games are much mellower than fans at Raiders games.

Although Frank Francisco and Doug Brocail would beg to differ.

Just a thought...

Anybody else feel that if the Lakers were in the playoffs, a lot of these rubes would be somewhere other than Dodger Stadium right now, watching said Lakers?

Stealing from myself in the Game Chatter over on BTF, with Fassero starting, Alou is going to be bringing in relievers so fast, it's going to look the chocolates on the conveyor belt on "I Love Lucy."

I think Mike Matheny is just going to have a little card tucked inside his glove to keep track of everybody.

"Hmm, lefty, throws hard, no mustache, ahh, that's Christensen!"

Lakers playoff tickets are always priced to be family-friendly. Provided your family's last name is Broad.

I loved the infobox alongside today's LAT article, comparing the new hitters and pitchers to the guys no longer with us. It rather pointedly illustrates that once out of Dodger blue, those guys turned into stiffs. Perhaps there's a secret society of sensible people at the sports desk, willing to sneak this sort of thing into the paper under Plaschke's very nose.

"Hm, the new guys are better in every category... but that table doesn't have an entry for 'heart' or 'soul'!"

(Infobox online here:)
http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodgers10may10,1,4984502.story?page=2&coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger

I hope that #64 was sarcastic.

I hope that #71 doesn't sit in my section

For the record, I'm 39.

I also think that the Angels have finally developed a consistent and loyal fan base. Why else would a lot of them be complaining about the name change?

All I am going to say is that I am not an old fogey and I cheer passionately for the Dodgers. I'm also extremely loyal to them, but I somehow am able to behave myself when I go to games.

68, 69 - Bob is on a roll.

Improbable, I'm glad to have your viewpoint. I agree that being there is half the joy and then some. And I'm no teetotaler. But I don't agree with the rest of what you say.

I don't equate drunken and obnoxious with passionate. To me, those characteristics imply the opposite. They imply to me that the ballpark experience is not enough. As you can see, there's plenty of passion here for the Dodgers among the people you call crochety misers.

If I'm wrong - if the drunkards are passionate and loyal - does that still mean they should have the right to ruin someone else's time? Someone else curses in front of our kid or slams a beachball at our head or starts a fight - and we're the condescending jerks? I don't get it. You're welcome to explain it to me, though, if you're willing

I think that Moreno felt the need to change the name at all puts that argument down immediately.

#64"You know what you never see? An Angels tatoo on someone's scalp!"

Bet Rex Hudler has them all over the place. Same with most the writers at the LA Times Sports page.

#64 You know what you never see? An Angel tatoo on someone's scalp!

Bet Rex Hudler has Angel tattoos all over the place. Same as most the writers for the LA Times Sportspage.

Sorry for the double post, but you catch my drift.

RE: #69

Very funny as usual, Bob, but I used the word "somewhere" instead of "Staples Center" by design.

The Dodgers new security guy held the same position with at Staples Center previously.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't people complained that the security (the Red Coats) at Staples was too harsh?

I guess if the Lakers had a better year, people could have been sitting outside Staples Center getting ready to turn over cars after the Lakers lost Game 4 of their opening series to Phoenix.

"Damn you, Steve Nash and your stringy hair and affinity for dating hot-looking woman!"

I've never had a beachball hit me in the head. No one has tried to start a fight with me. And never did I equate beer-swilling with passion. All I am saying is that you can't expect others to stifle their idea of a good time so you can have yours. I don't scrap with this certain fan because I can appreciate him for the element he brings to the game and love he feels for his team. And guess what? His kid loves hitting a beach ball around. So, big deal! I like the Dodger fan reputation. There is a real pride in the team, a pride in the community. I think the fact that some of you live so far away from Los Angeles is very obvious. Maybe LA baseball is too much for you, maybe a little too raw, a little too raucous. It's an element, I, however, love. I want other teams to love and hate coming to Dodger Stadium for the exact same reason. I want our collective roar to intimidate other teams. Maybe the "other" LA baseball team better suits your needs.

I love the baseball talk here, but sometimes the banter concerning actual human beings is downright elitist.

post #60, for instance, absolutely mystifies me. This is passion?

RE: #85.

It's called a sense of humor. Get one!

vr

Xeifrank

...I feel an avalanche in the distance

I don't want to turn Dodger Stadium into a morgue, and I don't think you want any fans to actually fight with each other. So we're in agreement on that. Those are the black and white issues.

But elitism comes in different forms. It's clear that you expect others to "stifle their idea of a good time so you can have yours" every bit as much as we do.

I think it takes a sense of humor to take a beachball off the ol' bean. It takes a sense of humor to appreciate peanuts thrown at a Giants fan. I think it's, perhaps, a deficiency in said area that keeps one away from the park. Or at least an inability to have a good time.

I sent that too soon, before I finished.

I don't think most of us are asking for the moon. All we're asking for is to cut down the profanity, the intimidation of fellow Dodger fans and the level of intoxication. Is that really so much?

Improbable-
I really liked your comments in #64. I bet half the Royal Rooters were drunk and obnoxious. In 1986 some drunk in Candlestick told my dad to "take off his bleeping Dodger hat." For me, in my braces, in that moment the rivalry was born.

That having been said, the moment the borderline behavior becomes "scary" or "blatantly offensive" I'm all for the ejection button. It's a case by case basis and none of us can articulate where the line should be drawn. More cops on the beat is a win-win.

Maybe McCourt will pay extra for the shields and horses so we can be like the Yankees.

"It takes a sense of humor to appreciate peanuts thrown at a Giants fan."

Well, there we go. So completely disagree with you here. That's pretty much irreconcilable for me.

So if you're in San Francisco, fans can throw peanuts at you to their hearts' content, I guess. If you say so. I'd rather not go that way.

I think you're assuming that I'm one of these beer swilling monsters. I, most certainly, am not. I have season tickets, show up early for batting practice whenever possible, listen to Vinnie for the first three innings on a transistor radio while my buddy keeps score. Hell, I don't even drink! But they have a right to their good time, as I do mine. Though I admit, I adore the ambience of the game, and especially Dodger Stadium. The beauty of a Dodger game is the beauty of Los Angeles is the beauty of America. We are a diverse group. Enjoy each other!

Improbable, it sounds to me like the fans you are talking about are not the same "fans" that they are talking about, and thus your accusation of elitism is somewhat misplaced.

The "fans" the rest of the thread is talking about are those who:
1) Do not care about watching the game
2) Like to start fights
3) Will interrupt the game doing stupid stuff, which is further proof of #1

You seem to be talking about boisterous fans who DO love the Dodgers and ARE interested in watching the actual game and are NOT starting fights with other people sitting in the stadium. That's totally fine and cool. But I don't think those are the fans that the complaints are about, except maybe the beach ball thing.

So, you endorse throwing objects at people who come to the stadium to root for the opposing team? That's humorous? At what point does it stop being funny? beers? batteries?

And I've had peanuts thrown at me at Candlestick AND SBC, or whatever it's called now, and I enjoyed it. It was like a rite of passage, a small suffrage for my boys. Like Lent.

I'm with Jon.. I don't need to hear some dude sitting behind me (in the pavilion) scream "F-you left fielder" or "You're a (deragatory homosexual reference) left fielder" the whole damn game. Call me elitist, but I think it is lame. If you are gonna heckle someone, at least take the time to come up with something good.

I don't have a problem with folks throwing peanuts or whatever at Giants fans. I don't do it myself, but it is relatively harmless. Picking a fight with another fan on the other hand because they like a different team than you is lame.

Improbable, that's all fine and dandy, you sound like a great Dodger fan. Perhaps the intimidation, violence and vulgar language doesn't bother you. If you had a 10 year old son or daughter you took to the game, and you had one of these fans sitting near you, how would you feel then?

vr

Xeifrank

Some of you sound like nuns and school marms! It's a ballgame! It's supposed to be irreverent at times. Jesus, it's a sport decorated by the Cobbs, Ruths and Mantles!!

"Fun" is great. It takes many forms. However, even the "funnest" activities of any kind in life are no longer fun when:

(1) any person involved is very uncomfortable with how they are being treated
(2) any person feels threatened
(3) any person is verbally abused
(4) any person is physically abused or assaulted
(5) people are generally and consistenyly inconsiderate of those around them in a public setting
(6) children are forced to overhear highly inappropriate laguage on a continual basis.

Beach balls? Merely an annoyance. But any person can be a true fan, or whatever, and still have a good time while adhering the personal standard I've outlined.

It's when fan behavior violates these provisions that I wish I had stayed home. This appears to be becoming increasingly common, for any number of reasons. If more security at the park reverses the trend, it's money well spent.

And this is coming from someone waaaay under 30.

You guys sound like Nuns and School Marms! This is baseball not sunday school! It's supposed to be irreverent at times! It's patron saints are Cobb, Ruth and Mantle!!

I agree with 91. But I think that's what most around here are trying to reach anyway, some kind of moderate consensus on the best way to handle a problem. Do two drunk guys running around on the field "ruin it for everyone," like mom used to say? Maybe. And the elements of sexual harassment and gambling in the Daily News story are obviously inconsistent with a family environment (being the father of three girls, that carried a lot of resonance) So while I see where Improbable is coming from, I don't think there is the wide gulf between him and us that he thinks. And nobody should throw anything at anybody -- that was literary license I hope. But on the other hand, I think you should only boo your own players -- for crying out loud, what else are you supposed to do when Grabowski comes to the plate?

As for baseball:

Lineups are out. Choi, Drew, Ledee and Robles are in the starting lineup.

sorry for the double post...thought it got lost in the internet fray.

I enjoy the surroundings at any ball park. With that said, none compare to Dodgers Stadium. I used to attend a lot of games each year. Usually right around 35 to 40. However, as much as I love the Dodgers and the Stadium, I dislke what has been happening lately with the unruly fans. Sure, when the Dodgers score or make a big play, I'm right there with the unruly fans high fiving and cheering. But, I get irritated when those same fans start dropping the "F Bomb" with children around. I could tolerate it if kids weren't around. I still wouldn't like it, but would just deal.

Yeah, yeah, you pay your money and can do whatever....so you think. People that are unruly with their own kids with them, need to be re-evaluated as parents.

That's enough from me and my ranting.

I will take beach balls over unruly/rude fans any day.

By the way, I am 40.

Go Blue!

Should the ballpark be a safe-haven from life? Just a question. Not expressing any bias...yet

Looking foward to Robles. Hope he has a big day.

I'm pretty much ready to let this discussion go with the game about to start. But I guess I feel like you're not really listening, Improbable. You keep making comments like, "This is baseball not sunday school! It's supposed to be irreverent at times," as if we've denied this. Of course we agree.

I'm willing to accept that my idea of obnoxiousness is not everyone else's. What you don't seem willing to accept is that your idea of irreverance is not everyone else's. I've made plenty of concessions on my end - yet you seem unwilling to make any on yours.

Yeah and no thanks for me siding with you in #91 either. Heck- I'm going with the nuns!

Speaking of baseball (and not the Dodgers), watching Manny Ramirez go after a fly ball is fun.

As for the stadium issue, I don't think it should be a safe haven from life. Some of the people "acting a fool" don't pull the same crap "in life" that they do at the Stadium though.

On the F word, I currently live in Payson, Utah (though trust me, I know of what I speak about Dodger Stadium). Per capita, the F word is spoken perhaps less here than in 98% of cities in the known world. I took my kids to McDonald's a few days ago and in the corner were two guys. We went over to sit down near them, since it was a convenient table. No sooner did we sit down than I heard their conversation. It was in that charming language where every other word begins with F. We moved immediately.

I guess two lessons:

1) The Dodgers can't be Big Brother, policing every naughty word in a society that is already vulgar.
2) Many times at Dodger games, you can't move.

So what to do? I know this is rarely the case for me, but I admit that I don't know. I suspect that the followup to the news-heavy stuff of the last week will be a lot of sit-columns proposing easy answers where there are none.

No fighting. No throwing things on the field or at players. No uncontrollable debauchery. Concessions made. Good Enough?

I think the baseball stadium SHOULD be a place that you can take your family (young impressionable children included) without having to expose them to constant vulgarity, intimidation, violence etc... It doesn't have to be as pure as sunday school, but if I don't want them exposed to this stuff I have the right to keep them at home without having my fan loyalty being called into question.

I have a feeling that someone on this board is very very liberal. :)

Can't wait for the Game Message board to open up... and this discussion ended.

vr

Xeifrank

But you cannot censor the clever witticisms and probing insults of the fans!

Yep - that's mostly what I was looking for.

Well, I'd add no throwing things at fans, but I guess we'll agree to disagree. :)

Improbable,

Is it good that one fan shot another fan in the parking lot last season? Is that your idea of having the right to have a good time?

It's me. I admit it. I'm very, very liberal. :)

Those are strange rules. You can throw stuff at other fans, but not on the field? You can participate in controllable debauchery? I'm not convinced.

Was it a Giants fan? Then yes, great time.

When I want to participate in debauchery, I go to bars where it is encouraged. I don't have to worry about watching my mouth (unless I want to have my butt kicked) and there aren't kiddies around.

Would suggest Improbable88 goes back and reads the BB post from last week. I might make clear that the overiding position of posters here isthat we object to things that cause delay of game, such as the on field idiots last week (and there friends who exacerbated the situation), the throwing of items, the use of language that children shouldn't hear, and unruly behavior (i.e. fighting, drunkeness, etc.). To detest such behavior is in no way elitist. It's simply a matter of civility.

2 requests

1. Please don't feed the troll(s).

2. Please open up the game message board.

Over/Under on Erickson set at 4 1/3 innings pitched.

Who is taking the over and who is taking the under?

vr

Xeifrank

Under. Way Under.

"To detest such behavior is in no way elitist. It's simply a matter of civility."

LOL

Xeifrank - this is today's game chat. I think we can lay the other discussion to rest - the fire is out and Improbable is rather clearly joking around at this point.

I'll take the over of 6 innings pitched, because I'm an optimistic idiot.

Well, perhaps not THAT much of an idiot - I'll say 5 1/2.

"I may not agree with what you have to yell at Barry Bonds, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it"

Voltaire

I'm going out on a limb here, but you're on Steve :)

The Dodger fan in me would like to take the over..

The realist tells me it is a risky proposition.

#83.

I'm mostly in line with what you're saying. I want the fans to feel strongly about the team, though you won't catch me running up and down the aisles. Mostly, I go to games hoping our boys put a beat-down on the other team on the field, and couldn't give a cr@p about what's going on in the stands. As far a beachballs and rowdiness and such goes, I don't really have a problem, if that's what you're into.

I do have a problem with guys running onto the field, the throwing of trash/baseball/food/beer, and a dozen beachballs per game falling into the outfield and holding up the game. That stuff doesn't make the stadium experience more intimidating for the opposition, it makes it a joke to the rest of the league. I could do without that.

In a way, all this means the Dodgers are finally growing up in LA (or LA is just growing up), because I think DS has been the notable exception among urban ballparks (namely Fenway, Shea, Wrigley, Comiskey, Yankee Stadium, the Vet) for a really long time. Dodger fans have been pretty milquetoast and passive in the past. I like the passion and pride in the team from the fans, but we can't expect to have total anarchy.

You can call me crotchety if you want, but I've already had to get into it with some jerk this year for chucking a half-full beer from the Loge at Scott Eyre. Friggin' Scott Eyre, dude. When it comes to the point where I have have to stick up for the GD Giants, I'm sorry, but I get a little cranky.

FYI, I'm only 26, and I'm from Culver, so I doubt that it's just a "old-man-from-the-suburbs" thing

Here's some good pregame comic relief:
http://tinyurl.com/doee7

Sad to say, I'll take the under on Erickson.

Does anyone know if Robles can actually play 3B?

Also, does anyone know if Robles got his Visa and is in the US yet?

vr

Xeifrank

I assumed that Robles already had his visa because he participated in ST.

I'd like to weigh in a bit for Improbable here. I personally do think that security can be better, even though I've never had a problem at a game, and I went to about 25 games as recently as last summer, but I think Improbable has a point with regards to things like the complaints about beach balls around here.

BTW, I think Eric L is right that bad behavior is limited to parts of the stadium. I usuall sat in the field boxes, and sometimes inner reserve, and in about a quarter of home games, I've never heard anything worse than "Barry Sucks."

I don't like beach balls--they are a distraction--but if you read some of the stuff around here, there seems to be a belief that the ushers should aggressively eject fans who do nothing more than toss a beach ball around. Is this really realistic? Can you imagine the practical difficulties doing something like that. Never mind the fan reaction.

Sure, at some point, enough is enough, and I think it's a good idea to add some uniformed cops. But I think Improbable does have a point. I frown on things like throwing peanuts at Giants fans. If I had kids, I would make sure to impart that to them. But I also don't think that the ushers should make it a point of tossing a fan who throws a few peanuts at someone. If it happens in front of them, sure, give a warning. If it becomes anything more serious, definitely toss the fan.

But with regards to stuff like profanity, I'd rather live and let live. If it's catcalling that makes women feel unsafe, that's a different matter. But throwing someone out for yelling "F---- blank" strikes me as too much, and I'm a guy who doesn't even usually have one beer at the Stadium.

I'm really sympathetic to some of the posters' points here about fan behavior, but when you've got maybe 40,000 people in a public place, you really have to pick your spots. Draw the line at actual fights. Throwing trash on the field like the recent episode at 2-dollar Tuesday. But elimiating the use of profanity, general raucousness, and beach balls is just asking too much of the security force, unless you want to make the Stadium resemble an armed camp. And reading the gist of the comments here, that kinda sounds a lot like what some posters want.

WWSH

Robles is starting if I'm not mistaken.

I'm just wondering how frustrated Joe Thurston is right about now. getting another MI above him in the pecking order can't be good for the ego.

Yes, Robles at third.

All good points, Wayne, except I don't think you quite need to get to the point where a "woman feels unsafe" to step in and do something about that. Having daughters makes one sensitive to this point.

Jim, I would do it, but I don't know what to do! :)

We're about to find out if Choi can hit a curveball. If I'm not mistaken, that is one of Morris' best pitches.

I hope Choi sitting for a couple of games hasn't cooled off his hitting streak. We need runs tonight!

Early notes from games around the league:

After Homering against the Unit last night (3), Beltre is 0-2 with a K against the mighty Wang.

LoDuca homered (2) off Brandon Backe.

Padres have a runner at 2nd, no outs in the 4th but trail CIN 2-0. CIN blew a 4-run lead in the ninth last night and eventually lost to the Padres in th 13th.

Last night on the SCSR, Mark Gubicza opined about how the Dodgers don't want to fall behind in the count to Morris because his curveball is so good. He said the Dodger hitters need to be aggressive early in the count and look for fast ball counts. Also said Dave Duncan emphasizes to his pitchers the importance of throwing that first strike in each count.

FYI.

vr

Xeifrank

It's just a friendly bet, Steve...the loser has
to go `Arrgh'.

attaboy

Nice, nice, nice at bat.

Bad news - the Cardinals are 5-0 on Tuesdays this season.

Why even take the field?

YAY CHOI!

three cheers for Choi!

So Choi singles on the ninth pitch of the at-bat. So much for Mark Gubicza. Pitchers look out for each other.

While it would be very likely that I would not be going "arrgh" if Scott Erickson can somehow scratch his way through five innings, I will make that bet.

And this umpire's strikezone is terrible. That high strike does Erickson no good, because the ball will go 450 feet if he ever throws it there.

Stuck watching Gameday at work. Did Our Boy Choi have a chance to break up the DP?

No

Not so impressed with the DP ball, but I'm not in the mood to give the run back.

#149: Yeah, the ump is calling strikes at the shoulders. Though, I don't think you're giving Erickson enough credit. If he throws it up there, I'm thinking at least 500 feet.

Ancient art of interpreting game cast -

What happened to Claussen in the Cincy/SD game? Ramon Hernandez "singled to pitcher" than a pitching change was made. Did he do the splits or something? Some guy name-a Coffey came in and got out of the jam, but 5+ innings of Red bullpen does not bode well.

No, he doesn't throw that hard. So you don't get the benefit of the equal and opposite reaction.

Now we have somewhere to put Albert.

Ugghh, must survive 3-4-5...

Man, GameDay Audio's fragged again and I get to follow the game on GameCast. Yeah!

Time to hope for a DP.

Steve's right. I think the deepest HR I've ever seen was the one McGwire (with Oakland) hit off of Randy Johnson (with Seattle) in the Kingdome.

#157 - My GameDay Audio is OK. What's wrong with yours?

#159 I think that was clocked at like 104 off of the bat

Outs=Good

Sincerely,
Captain Obvious

I get the distinct feeling it's gonna be a long night for both pitchers.

Dodged that bullet...

For those who are watching on TV, how far were the flyballs hit off Erickson going?

XF, what happened to my Arrrgh expectancy ratio after that comebacker?

Hey, that's our "crafty veteran starter" (tm) pitching his way out of trouble. I feel very comfortable with this game, provided we now turn around and score 10 runs in the second inning.

Too bad Tracy thinks Erickson will be able to repeat this feat in the seventh inning.

Has Matt Morris always looked like a hobo, or is this a new thing?

He's going for the Gene Garber look, Reg.

BTW, that's a heck of a ballgame going on between Moneyball Original and Moneyball Ultra (Now with Money!) in Boston. Johnny Damon's wondering why no one else can get a hit.

170. LOL

Well, we went around the horn in that inning.

Saarloos must excel in some new-fangled peripheral stat we've never heard of:

35ip, 8k, 17bb, 5.09era

That line would stroke Kirk Reuter's ego.

173 - Saarloos usually pitches well in the first few innings and then collapses in the 5th or 6th. Macha tends to leave him in too long. Sound familiar?

Scott Rolen reminds me of a tarantula when he goes after a grounder to his left - a BIG tarantula.

Does Charlie Steiner know bats are not made out of pine?

Huston Street mowing the 3/4/5 hitters in the 6th is the Jim Tracy fantasy we've been waiting for.

Tracy and Grabowski for Macha

Robles hustled down to first on that pop-up. Plaschke's going to love him.

176 - Beane will never let go of Huston Street, sadly. He'll be the closer after the As trade Dotel sometime this season.

Erickson strikes out on three called strikes? Pathetic, even for a pitcher.

Woo Hoo! GameDay Audio is back up and running. I wonder how many people I'd have to kill to actually get them to run DSL to my house here in Arkansas?

To be fair to Erickson, he didn't get a chance to hit alot earlier in his career. Prior to this season, he had a grand total of 16 ABs.

RE 179:

I dunno. How many'd you have to kill to get electricity?

180 - I'll admit I'm way too harsh on pitchers up to bat. I always feel like they should have special inside knowledge that'll help them to hit the ball.

RE 181:

Umm.... 7 or 8, but nobody that would be missed. Just kidding. Never know when the feds might be reading.

Like having `Swing' embossed on it?

Nice job there, Erickson. I forgive you for the three called strikes earlier.

If Dodger Hill's phone company is SBC or Comcast, they're all demons working there, so he wouldn't actually be killing any humans.

Why do I get the impression every time that Scott Erickson is pitching there should be a picture of guy lighting a match and then a fuse burning with a stacatto Lalo Schifrin theme playing in the background.

I go away and look what happens. 1-0? Overs/unders on how many more outs that lasts before Erickson gives up a slam and a 3-run shot?

RE: pitchers hitting

I've never understood why the starters don't take more BP, or do they? Seems to me if you're gonna be 1/9 of the offense every fourth or fifth day you might want to work at that part of your game.

Where does the K go in Choi, again?

Let's just hope Tracy isn't lulled into complacency by Erickson's pitch count.

Oh, who am I kidding? It's Tracy.

La Russa to Ump: Grew can't be safe. My reputation's at stake here.

Ump to LaRussa: You don't even know the kid's name.

Come on, Ledee! We could use a 3-run homer right about now.

Thank you first base ump.

Not a homer, but I'll certainly take it.

He only partially heard you, Christina. Say it louder next time.

I want Phillips to homer just so I can watch him awkwardly chug around the bases with his tongue stuck out.

Ledee's been a fine little pickup, hasn't he?

I love it when Ledee comes through. One of my best friends is a Giant fan and goes nuts when Ledee hits as a Dodger considering how bad he was as a Giant.

Anyone listening to Monday call that play at the plate with Bradley? Terrible.

News alert for Ricky Ledee fans: please to see his splits last year with Philly (first half) vs San Francisco. Fluke, fluke, fluke...

Jason Phillips is a stud.

Damn, Gameday is minutes behind.

GameDay froze. What happened with Phillips' AB?

Icaros/200: what was wrong with the Monday call of that play? I wasn't listening closely.

Christina/203: Phillips had an RBI single. 3-1 Dodgers.

So the Cardinals got a run just because Scott Erickson showed up?

He said the throw was offline. Then he goes back and says it started offline but tailed back in and Bradley would've been out had the catcher not dropped the ball.

I have a love/hate relationship with "In play, run scoring play." I'm missing out on all the scoring on TV, because my wife is watching American Idol.

Alex Cora was able to score from Anaheim on that single by Phillips, for the Cardinals of all things.

There's a baseball roulette wheel that somewhere is determining the number of runs Erickson will give up.

Edmonds singles.

Monday said that the throw was offline but it tailed back and Bradley was out if Diaz had held onto the ball.

When it looks like Gameday is stuck it's usually because there's a play where they have to wait for an official scorer's decision. Because if they have to go back and change things, then they get all messed up.

That was pretty predictable.

205 - you got the score wrong -it's 3-2

Roulette wheel says two runs.

So far.

Dodgers 3, Cardinals 2.

Joking around about the cardinals scoring runs is now officially not funny anymore.

Think Rolen stung his hands on that one?

I may, unfortunately, win that bet after all.

I'm still hoping for another front-end starter at the trading deadline.

It's always a question of when, not if, Erickson gives up the gopher ball.

scareduck - you jinxed us!

ominous . . .

Stupid Erickson!

(Sound of clearing throat...)

Ledee threw down either his glove or hat in digust on that one.

I don't think it's mathematically possible for a lead to evaporate faster.

3-3.

Why do I always come in to these games when the Dodger pitchers start to collapse?

Re: 220 And how many.

So do we have anyone up in the bullpen yet, or is Tracy still napping?

For all those watching at home:

That last pitch by Erickson was so bad, ________ could have hit it out.

Go.

I win. AARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Can anyone explain why Erickson is still in the rotation instead of Alvarez?

Man, Erickson sucks.

Why do I always come in to these games when the Dodger pitchers start to collapse?

Because you know nothing other than misery.

That was quick. Can we pull Erickson know while we are even?

Icaros/234: sure, but in that case, are cause and effect reversed?

Icaros/234: sure, but in that case, are cause and effect reversed?

In the end, it makes no difference.

233: sure, Erickson sucks, but his wife is really hot.

Bat. For. Erickson. Top of the order in the fifth. Eckstein already owns him. Bat. For. Erickson.

It will never happen.

That last pitch by Erickson was so bad, Jason Grabowski could have hit it out.

In Erickson's defense, it didn't help that Robles/Ledee couldn't reel in Sanders's fly ball either.

Is it just me or does Ledee seem pretty below average out in LF?

Ok. Four innings is all you can ask for from Erickson and Tracy should pinch hit for him. I'd rather stop playing Erickson-roulette.

Rick Monday gripe of the day... paraphrasing for effect:

"(dull monotone) Reggie Sanders can be a power threat when he gets a pitch he can handle... AND HE GETS ONE HE CAN HANDLE HERE! THAT ONE IS GONE!"

Clever segue Rick! Really fun for the listeners at home.

Icaros/237: of course it makes a difference; no way I'm jinxing the Dodgers. I mean, really -- I've seen them win! And in person!
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