I always liked Lopes as a player, but it sounds like he thinks the pointy-heads are conspiring to keep him down. Well, if Frank Robinson gets elevated to GM over in D.C. I'm betting he'd hire him

Isn't new Padres head honcho/savior Sandy Alderson an "Ivy league type guy" (Dartmouth) who never played MLB?

Guess Davey doesn't much care for making a good first impression with the new boss.

Random Dodger game callback

May 10, 1916

The red hot Brooklyn Robins ran their season record to a blazing 11-4 with a 4-0 shutout over Cincinnati behind some great pitching by Jeff Pfeffer. Pfeffer allowed just 6 hits and notched the first of his six shutouts on the season.

Dodgers hitting star Zack Wheat sat out the game in Cincinnati, but his backup Jimmy Johnston singled in Hy Myers (who would hit the first World Series home run for the Dodgers) with the first run of the game and that was all the Robins would need. The Dodgers were ½ game ahead of Boston at the end of the day. The archrival Giants were in the cellar at 4-13, but would be able to put together a 26-game win streak late in the season to get them to fourth place. But 1916 would belong to Wilbert Robinson's Brooklyn squad, who edged out the defending champion Phillies by 2 ½ games. It would be the first NL flag for Brooklyn since 1900. The Dodgers would lose in the World Series to the Boston Red Sox in 5 games. Brooklyn's only win came in Game 3.

The 1916 Brooklyn squad led the NL in BA, OBP, and SLG and finished second in runs scored. In addition to Hall of Famer Wheat, first baseman Jake Daubert had a good year sporting a .371 OBP and slugging .397, high totals for the Deadball Era. Another Hall of Famer who played for the Dodgers that year was right fielder Casey Stengel, who would achieve his fame in another uniform many years later. Also popping in that year was Fred Merkle. (The justifiably infamous Hal Chase was playing for the Reds on May 10, 1916.) Longtime Dodger pitcher Nap Rucker, who pitched 10 years for Brooklyn, most of them great years for terrible teams, got into 9 games in the regular season and manager Robinson was able to give Rucker a brief appearance in the World Series. After the year was over, Rucker had to retire at the ripe old age of 30. An additional Hall of Famer who played for Brooklyn in 1916 was Rube Marquard.

The Dodgers also had an outfielder named Jim Hickman play 9 games in 1916. Another Jim Hickman would play for the Dodgers in 1967.

Thanks to the New York Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

Sorry I missed last night. Great comments all around.

Sometimes I wonder if people like Lopes say things just to ensure it gets picked up and run by "the media" (meaning every thing not a blog, hahaha). Sort of playing up to the system to get heard.

Hell of a base stealer, maybe the best behind only Beltran/R Henderson in my book. Good offensive player but never liked how he played 2b. Least favorite player of the great teams from 73-81 not because of ability just based on the fact he took my favorite players job and being 14 at the time I never forgave him. Plus the Jim Bouton incident proved he was the A-Hole I always thought he was.

Davey Lopes was a Gold Glover.

At least for one year.

Jim Murray thought Lopes should have been named MVP of the 1981 World Series. I dare anyone who remembers that series to justify that selection.

Does this scouts vs. stats storyline continue to get play because of the inherent tension in the topic? The point of unearthing past stars to have them draw a line in the sand, and in the process show their ignorance on the topic, is lost on me. A statistical measure reflects a tendency for something to occur. I would imagine the concept of a player's tendencies is pretty obvious to anyone involved in the game. For example, managers and players are given a scouting report or know from experience that pitcher A has a tendency to throw his splitter in 2 strike situations. Statistics are just a tool to provide a more precise reflection of that tendency: pitcher A throws his splitter 68% of the time in a 2 strike situation. This information is used to make informed baseball decisions and instead of just being based on one or a couple people's experience (coaching staff) it incorporates their knowledge and all the events that they miss or were never around to witness.

I guess its just human nature to stereotype without first hand inspection, especially if the topic is something unfamiliar or daunting, as is probably the case for most athletes (i.e. a bad experience with mathematics while growing up). Unfortunately, a willingness or ability to find a common ground with statistically-minded baseball analysts seems difficult for most "old-schoolers" and, as Jon mentions, will limit job opportunities for those clinging to the old religion as the new cult spreads throughout the league.

Sorry for the rant, but the "Moneyball debate" and the thought of giving Scott Erickson 20-25 starts is getting to me.

Sorry, just noticed that I apparently have a fondness for commas when I get worked up.

Jim Murray thought Lopes should have been named MVP of the 1981 World Series...

Don't tell Steve Garvey, who mistakenly tried to make off with the tri MVP trophy. "Oh you mean Steve...Yeager won the award?" With guys like Bobby Brown, Reuschel, George Frazier and Larry Milbourne, the 81 Yankees had to be the worst Bronx WS team since WWII.

Great job by Steve at FJT reviewing the Slate article. How have guys like Stu Nahan, Vic the Brick, Plaschke, etc fooled the public for years into thinking they're "sports authorities"?

Sure did like Davey Lopes as a player. If he wants to be stubbornly old-school, well, he's earned the right to be whatever he wants, in my book.

As an old "pointy-headed" Ivy Leaguer myself, I have little to add to the 'Moneyball' debate except to note that the sabermetric approach to GM-ing will probably decrease in effectiveness the more widely it is adopted. The more old-school GMs there are who undervalue certain assets, the easier it is to find genuine bargains. But once more or less every GM values every player in more or less the same way, big-budget teams will have the same edge over small-budget teams that they did pre-Billy Beane.

I'll be interested to see how the new security policy works out. I think/hope the most egregious beachball problems will be covered by #2. I'm not militantly against beachballs (just annoyed by them), but I am militantly against spiking them real hard without any regard for whom they might hit (which is what I see happening a lot more now than in the past).

I'm really no more against beachballs than I am against someone sitting in the wrong seat (fan code #6). Which is to say, on most occasions, it's incredibly minor.

Only if it stops being an innocuous act and starts to interfere with people's ability to watch a game - that's when it becomes a problem.

Lately, the thing is, it's been more and more of a problem.

"5. Fans may keep any ball hit into the stands as a souvenir. However, fans must not go onto the field, throw objects onto the field or interfere with balls in play. Violation will result in immediate ejection and/or arrest and prosecution."

Does a beachball being hit onto the field qualify as an object thrown on the field? Does in my book... maybe it's not malicious, but it definitely reflects a lack of common sense, self-restraint, and respect for the game and the other fans trying to enjoy it.

The last time I was at Dodger Stadium they had not started the BB (uh, that would stand for beachball in this case) fascination. I'm curious; has any one witnessed a BB landing on the playing field during a ball-in-play?
I always see the batter step out and the ump call time on TV as if the fans somehow miraculously timed their foolishness so as not to interfere with a b-in-p.

Piggybacking on Doug's point in #10, as the so-called 'Moneyball' principles proliferate (and they will), the role of scouting will re-emphasized. If more than half of the teams start using Baseball Prospectus-type anaylses, it will be the teams with the best scouts that make the best personnel decisions.

When everyone's scouts told them the same things: Jeff Kent is a bad fielder, Choi can't hit [and I'm equating writers' opinions with scouts opinions; in truth I have no idea what scouts actually said about either player], etc., good 'numbers' analysis identified the disconnect and presented a competitive advantage.

When everyone's 'numbers' anaylsis tell them the same things, the advantages will go to whichever teams' scouts can identify growth potential and players whose ability isn't reflected accurately in their stats.

Any manager who pulled the two bonehead moves that LaRussa did last night (running out of a big inning in the first inning, bunting with Jim Edmonds in the sixth) would have gotten his head handed to him.

I think Bissinger and his publisher wanted to sell books, and so manufactured this vehicle into an Anti-Moneyball screed. But that's tired. The best critical work of Moneyball, post-Moneyball, will be that work which looks at the concepts in the book on their own terms. Steven Levitt's work suggesting that Moneyball is nothing new may be right, may be wrong, but no one can deny that it's not interesting and engaging and thoughtful. It's hoary cliche, but you get the sense that most baseball writers (Plaschke, Ringolsby, Olney, etc.) are one step from saying the Earth is flat.

#12 -

Certainly "onto the field" includes anything - but I'm also wondering very much about beachballs that stay in the stands. This is a major preoccupation of the ushers - yet there is nothing that seems to proscribe batting around a beachball that stays off the field.

I'd hate to say this, but I noticed last night that Anaheim has about 10% the number of beach balls in the stands. (I think one came out on the field.) And the game last night was begging for some diversion since hardly anyone got on base. Angel ushers also don't try to confiscate the beach balls. Is the difference in fan behavior a factor of demographics? The Angels do charge more for their tickets than the Dodgers.

Re: the 1981 Yankees. They had a few injuries coming into the World Series and had to play guys like Aurelio Rodriguez at third base in the World Series. They had two good starters in John and Guidry, but they had a clueless manager in Bob Lemon. And they didn't have much in the way of middle or long relief so when guys like Righetti or Reuschel faltered they didn't have much to go to.

But Ron Davis and Rich Gossage were a pretty fearsome combination to face in the 7th-9th innings that year. Davis had 83 Ks in 73 IP in 1981.

Bob, do you think that if Dodger ushers stopped trying to confiscate beach balls, the numbers would decrease?

Probably not, huh?

My dad and I were in the left-field pavilion for a game in the early 90s; sitting in front of us were two parents and their two little girls (neither could have been older than 8; Vin would've loved them).

The little girls had each brought an 8.5x11 inch piece of paper, which they had written "Go Dodgers" on. After three innings the ushers confiscated the homemade signs, citing a no banner rule.

I thought that was a little harsh.

I don't know if this has been covered yet, but since we are talking about "3 Nights in August", does anyone else think its ironic that JD Drew didn't play last night in St. Louis?

The book details LaRussa's questioning of Drew's desire to play and get the most out of his talent. Drew was even on the disabled list during the 3 games against the Cubs detailed in the book.

I'm surprised more hasn't been made of it.

The ushers not confiscating beach balls in Anaheim is a Moreno edict I believe.

But from my memory they didn't try very hard before.

The little girls had each brought an 8.5x11 inch piece of paper, which they had written "Go Dodgers" on. After three innings the ushers confiscated the homemade signs, citing a no banner rule.

That is the most ridiculous thing... I can see not allowing some huge-a$# banner that is going to intefere with other fans, but doesn't Dodger management allow their staff any discretion? Or is it just "them's the rules"... since "banners" must be clearly delineated as forbidden, it was a no-brainer for the "No-Brainer"... the ushers must look like deer-in-headlights when a beachball is hit on the field.

How long would it take for the average fan to get over a "no beachball" rule? About 2 games would be my estimate.

I think the usher enforcing the "no banner" rule may have been drunk with power in that situation. Most of the banner restrictions at Dodger Stadium are by order of the Fire Marshal.

I will bet that a distinct portion of the crowd will boo any PSAs about crowd conduct, although the majority will applaud. I think some of the goons at the games would have the audacity to boo Scully and Jarrin.

If not for the accidental shooting of innocent people danger, I think it would be great fun for the ushers to be equipped with BB guns to shoot offending beach balls.

As it is now, they have to try to chase the balls down, and they just end up looking like the kids who got picked on in school.

If BB guns came into play, I'd drive up there tomorrow and apply for a job (unless Jet Blue ends up calling).

I like our Usher named Jon but all he enforces are the simple rules that he can handle, such as keep your hands off the screen, don't point cameras over the screen, and then the chase of BB's. Several years ago the poor guy who is over 60 broke his leg chasing down a beach ball. To enforce the security issues they need security people.

Several games ago at fire works night, we had a large fellow show up in the 2nd inning, drunk as a skunk, with a beer in hand. He then proceeded to head back up for a beer, yakked all over the steps and they let him stay. After sitting still one inning he got up to get another beer, staggered and yakked all over the fan's feet right behind them. Only then did they escort him out. This is the lodge section. If it wasn't for the people below in the field section I think he would have been rolled over the balcony. It was a great sight for the two kids who won a prize from my wife's 4th grade class to go to the game. I'm sure they had quite a story to tell their parents that evening.
Went to Petco twice last year. Pleasant experience each time.

Yeah, but they can't hit home runs in Petco.

You want home runs? You deal with fat puking drunks.

From the Dodger Stadium A-to-Z guide (and posted at stadium entrances):

"Contraband items not allowed in the stadium include: glass bottles, cans, weapons, poles, umbrellas, backpacks, 14 inch or larger purses or bags, coolers, thermoses, beachballs, inflatables… Contraband items not allowed in the stadium include: banners, signs, flags, use of laser pointers, firecrackers/fireworks, boom boxes, air horns, whistles, musical instruments and pets."

Why did the Cards double steal with two outs and the pitcher up last night? I mean it worked, and more power to the Cards for getting two runners into scoring position on the play, but Mulder has to be one of the worst hitting pitchers in baseball, so it's not like he was going to knock them in. This weighed against the odds of one of the runners getting thrown out attempting to steal and having Mulder lead off didn't seem like such a wise move. I was listening on the radio and there was no real comment about the strategy or lack of it on this play. Any thoughts?

vr

Xeifrank

Interestingly, the Angels do allow banners:

Here is their regulation:
Banners & Signs:
All banners and signs brought into the ballpark must meet the following guidelines: they must be baseball related and in good taste (as determined by Angels Baseball L.P.) cannot be commercial, political or obscene in nature, or represent a disturbance or inconvenience to others. They are not allowed anywhere within the playing field or cover up any advertising within the ballpark. Banners and signs cannot be affixed to any ballpark wall, staff or pole and cannot be carried during the game because they will obstruct the view of other Guests. Banners must be limited in size to 3 feet tall by 12 feet wide and be made of a fire retardant material.

This is the Angels Code of Behavior:
The event staff at the ballpark are here to make sure that guests are provided with a safe, comfortable and enjoyable atmosphere. To ensure the comfort, safety and enjoyment of everyone at the game or event, Guests must maintain appropriate behavior at all times.

1. Guests wearing obscene or indecent clothing, as determined by Angels Baseball L.P., will not be admitted inside the ballpark.
2. Guests smoking in unauthorized locations, intoxicated or using foul, abusive language or gestures are subject to ejection from the ballpark.
3. Guests are not allowed on the playing field or the batter's eye area in center field at any time. Any Guest entering these areas, interrupting play in any manner or chasing after a baseball in an area that is off-limits can be ejected and/or cited for trespassing and is subject to arrest.
4. Objects may not be thrown or tossed into the seating area or onto the field at any time. Throwing any object into the seating area or onto the field is strictly prohibited. Violations of this nature will result in immediate ejection from the ballpark and subsequent legal action.
5. Guests interfering with other Guests' ability to enjoy the game will be subject to ejection

The Angels allow tailgating in the parking lot, but you can't have alcohol and you can't use charcoal in your barbecue.

My favortie vendor last night, who had just one bottle of lemonade left to sell was yelling "I've got a bottle with just 3% juice in it! Guaranteed 3% juice!"

The Padres have a briefer code of conduct:
The San Diego Padres and their contracted service partners are committed to creating a safe, comfortable and enjoyable ballpark experience for all guests. Guests are asked to follow the following Guest Code of Conduct:
» The progress of the game or event will not be disrupted by any guest's actions or by unauthorized persons entering the playing field or restricted areas
» Guests are asked not to wear any inappropriate or indecent clothing that would detract from the guest experience
» Guests may enjoy the ballpark experience free from foul or abusive language or obscene gestures
» Guests are asked to refrain from displays of affection inappropriate in a public, family setting
» Guests are asked to present their ticket when requested and sit only in their ticketed locations

The San Diego Padres reserve the right to remove any guest who chooses not to adhere to this Guest Code of Conduct.

The Angels let you bring in food as long as it's not too bulky and you can bring up to 1 liter of water. The Padres limit your water to a 20 oz bottle and if you bring in fruit, it has to be sliced up ahead of time so it cannot be used as a projectile. There really is no place to tailgate in San Diego.

Milwaukee, where tailgating is pretty much the highlight of any Brewers game, allows you to pretty much eat and drink at will. The only restriction is that if you take up two parking spaces, they will come by and charge you for the second one.

Re: "Moneyball" vs. "Old School Types"...

I know folks are tired of the over-simplified, manufactured dichotomy that's been forced onto this. But I kinda think it's okay.. if for no other reason than that it sets the current sport into an interesting context. Fake, maybe, but still interesting.

Example: my wife's not a sportsfan, but she's not a sports-hater, either. She'll watch a game with me, but only if I can help season the game with underlying tensions and dramas to try and make the whole thing more interesting for her on a human (non-sports-fan) level. Toward that end, I've been making great hay out of this whole "'Moneyball'-types-vs.-the-Old-School-types" thing. And it does keep her interested.

It doesn't matter if it's true or not. Everyone likes a good story.

Guests are asked to refrain from displays of affection inappropriate in a public, family setting

I imagine the SkyDome adopted this policy a few years back.

re:27

I think Grudz stole on his own and the runner at 1st followed. Perez is very slow to the plate and tips off when he's going home with a lean back. I imgagine Grudz being the veteran, knew it was a given to take 3rd and finally did it. He went in standing very easily.

If LaRussa sent the sign in, it had to be because he saw the same thing and knew there was probably a 90% success rate for it.

And from some more of the angrier stadiums in America:
Fenway Park
Any fan that directly or indirectly interferes with the enjoyment of the game will be promptly ejected from Fenway Park and may be subject to arrest and prosecution by the Boston Police. The Boston Red Sox do not condone misbehavior of any kind. Fans are also reminded that anyone observed with offensive articles included signs, shirts, hats, etc. may be asked to remove/discard them. Failure to comply with such a request will result in immediate ejection from the park. The Red Sox will continue to make every effort to ensure socially acceptable behavior in order to allow fans to enjoy the game in comfort.

Yankee Stadium is similar:
The Yankees are dedicated to serving our Guests, and to providing a high-quality entertainment experience at Yankee Stadium. Guests interfering with a ball in play, using foul language, making obscene gestures, smoking, or appearing to be in an inebriated condition will be ejected from the ballpark. In addition, any fan entering the field of play or throwing objects in the stands or onto the field, with the exception of home run balls, will face arrest and prosecution. If someone is interfering with your enjoyment of the game, please contact an usher or Guest Services Representative.

I liked this part from Detroit's list of prohibited behaviors:
- Guests displaying extreme acts of public affection will be asked to refrain from such;

The Cubs seemed to not have any code of conduct on its website.
The Giants tell you to just ask an usher if you have any questions.
The A's allow fans to bring in whiskbrooms only on days that the team is going for a series sweep. Push brooms are not allowed.

What should we set the over/under at on number of innings Erickson will last tonight.

I will throw out 4 2/3 for starters.

vr

Xeifrank

Disclaimer: I hope I am wrong.

Codes of conduct:

How about looking up some of the stadium codes of conduct at European or South American soccer stadiums. Probably would look something like this.

1. No fan may bring in a knife no longer than 10 inches in length.

2. Molitov cocktails must be no heavier than 1 pound.

3. Only one pair of brass knuckles per fan.

4. All bottles must be disposed of by throwing them at the opposing teams goalkeeper.

Re: #31
And how! Although, on the other hand, you'd think the Jays could charge extra for the show. Value added, yes?

27, 32 -- I agree with 32. I had time to shout "Turn around you idiot!" before Perez ever delivered the ball to the plate. If I remember right, there were two outs and Perez was just focused on getting the pitcher to get out of the inning. The steals were superfluous -- the sort of thing that keeps Joe Morgan happy, so you might as well do them.

Erickson will not last three innings tonight. We will need to score runs to win.

"The Yankees are dedicated to serving our Guests, and to providing a high-quality entertainment experience at Yankee Stadium. Guests interfering with a ball in play, using foul language, making obscene gestures, smoking, or appearing to be in an inebriated condition will be ejected from the ballpark."

And I am Marie of Rumania.

The SkyDome Hotel has a Code of Conduct that prevents couples from engaging in carnal acts in view of the fans. I believe that if you have a room with a stadium view, you have to sign a contract that you will behave.

Those rooms aren't cheap either.

T.J. Simers hits it out of the park in back to back columns, first about Shaq on Sunday, and then about the DMZ that used to be known as Dodger Stadium today.

I grew up going to Dodgers games in the '70s and '80s and there's just no way I'd take my kids there now. We do go to Anaheim (frequently, actually), but even last year's Dodgers-Angels series there was jerks in Dodgers jerseys trolling through the aisles just looking to provoke someone, anyone.

38 - nice Dorothy Parker reference, there.

I know Steve is probably right with his prediction on Erickson, but I'm going to be optimistic anyway. Maybe a reverse jinx will come into play tonight.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/cy

Bill James' Cy Young predictor has John Garland and Johan Santana #1 and #2 in the AL, and Dontrelle Willis and Mark Mulder #1 and #2 in the NL. No Dodgers crack the top ten list. Anyone think that Garland will be among the top of this list come September?

I know, I know, predicting the Cy Young winner in May is like a basketball score of 10-6, way too early.

vr

Xeifrank

re: #40

I read Simers to get my shock jock fix. To me he's about as entertaining as the callers that read faxes on the Jim Rome show.

Good riddence to Shaqzam, I had no problems with trading him, just problems with the Grant contract they got in return.

Oh wait, Dodgers message board. Shhhhh!

vr

Xeifrank

Though I'm not the first and I'm sure I won't be the last, I'd like to thank everyone involved with the "Ghame Over" T-Shirts, especially Eric and Brendan. The look of confusion on my wife's face as I tried to explain it to her was priceless.

I'm going to wash my "Ghame Over" before I wear it. The dye in it was a little strong for my sensitive nose.

re: #44. I'm sorry I missed out on the "Ghame Over" T-Shirts, but did get the info on the "Team Depot" shirts. I wonder what happens to the shirts when Gagne comes back? Perhaps some new "Ghame Almost Over" shirts will need to be printed?? :)

vr

Xeifrank

A strange line at the end of the LAT story today on Dodger security:

"Dodger spokeswoman Kelly Mullens said the announcement of [the new director of security's] hiring was not a response to last week's incident and said the team had not had a chance to release the information."

Okay, so they don't announce it for five weeks but then do it after a big security incident, when the city's biggest paper is writing a story about the subject. But that's just a coincidence.

And it took five weeks to announce because they "had not had a chance" to announce it before. What? How long does it take to write a press release? What a bizarre organization.

re: #47

What was the big security incident? The home run down the left field line with the fan touching the player?

Or something else?

thanks.

vr

Xeifrank

35.

5. Any and all firearms discharged into the air after a victory must be either semi-automatic or set to single-round discharge. Fans using fully-automatic or burst-fire settings will be asked to leave. (Not so much in Europe, but sure as hell in S.A.)

Xeifrank, it was the whole fracas that happened on $2 night, when the game was delayed because fans were throwing things on the field.

re: 40

I think the bad behaviour (aside from the beach balls) at DS is still limited to certain sections. The pavilion and the field level seats in the corners (as Bob T. has pointed out) aren't the nicest places.

You can still find places to sit at DS without having to worry the conduct of others.

It's a shame that the pavilion (though I guess the rowdy reputation predates me) has become as rowdy as it has. For some families, the $6 seats are all they can afford. I wonder if turning the right field pavilion into a family section, similar to ANA (above the bullpens) would help out?

Lopes, was a great ball player. I miss him

According to ESPN.com, the Giants have placed Jason Schmidt on the 15-day DL with a strained shoulder.

Scott Munter has been recalled from Fresno to replace him.

re: Fans throwing things on the field.

Perhaps security cameras fixed on trouble spots, throwing things on the field and especially at the players isn't too cool. If you can catch the person who did it on tape, I would think a fine or arrest would be pretty easy.

Steve Sax on the otherhand took matters into his own hands and threw things from the field into the stands.

vr

Xeifrank

The issue for me now in going to Dodger Stadium is that I used to go as a way to get away from things. A time to go and enjoy myself away from everyday life.

But now, I go to Dodger Stadium wondering in which way I will be annoyed. Will it be a bunch of people with beach balls? Will it be a guy who decided that Dodger Stadium is a good place to show off his ability to consume 8 beers in a 90-minute span? Will it be hoping that the fans don't decide to throw garbage at someone who is wearing a shirt from another team?

But deep down I think it is the beachballs coming on to the field stopping the game. I paid my money. I want to see a baseball game being played. If there is a sizeable contingent that just wants to go to do something outside of watching a game and doing normal things like cheering and such, then why I should put up with it?

When does the Padres prized prospect Stauffer make his first start?

thanks,

vr

Xeifrank

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) _ The Giants placed ace right-hander Jason Schmidt on the 15-day disabled list Tuesday with a strained right shoulder, the latest injury to a San Francisco star this season.

Will it be a guy who decided that Dodger Stadium is a good place to show off his ability to consume 8 beers in a 90-minute span?

Well, you have to admit that's not an easy thing to do.

That's the sad thing Bob.. I think that most of the people at the games are there to have fun and catch a ballgame.

The few who go and act like idiots dampen the experience for the rest of us.

I don't want to see DS turn into a place like the Oakland Network McAfee Associates Coliseum when the Raiders are at home. The first time I went to a Raiders-Broncos game, I wore a Cal Ripken jersey cause I wasn't gonna wear my Broncos stuff. Some dude wanted to start crap with me because of the orange on the jersey. Chances are, being a Raider fan, he couldn't read. Still...

Annoyances at Dodger stadium:

I have to admit I don't go to many Dodger games any more. Mostly, due to the one hour drive to the stadium with no traffic, two hours on a bad day, plus the nightmare leaving the parking lot afterwards. Seems like every game is televised these days, so why even bother.

Let's see at home we have the sofa and coffee table to prop my feet up on. At Dodger stadium I have the hard chairs which are crammed together with someone kicking the back of your chair. (Winner - Home)

At the stadium we have the beach balls flying onto the field stopping the game. At home, we have the wife asking me to take out the trash (Winner - Even)

At the stadium we have the $20 meal that includes two hot dogs, soda and bag of peanuts. At home, we have the wife's chinese cooking and the refridgerator stocked with soda and other goodies (Winner - Home)

At the stadium we have fans throwing projectiles on to the field and at other fans. At home, we have the baby crawling on the furniture. (Winner - Home)

At the stadium there are no commercial breaks. At home, there are commercial breaks that allow me to watch NBA playoffs and sportscenter highlights and take quick bathroom breaks. (Winner - Home)

I doubt I will make to the stadium again this year, but I still love my team!

vr

Xeifrank

Forget the BB guns. Equip the ushers with tasers and paintball guns.

They can taser the belligerent rube who is inflating the ball (preferably mid-huff); after time, said rube will make the Pavlovian association that inflating beach balls makes you lose control of your bladder and forget the next inning and a half.

Should the offender escape the eagle eye of "security", then comes the paintball gun. See someone standing up in anticipation that the beachball is coming their way? Plug 'em, then tell the peace officers to arrest anyone who looks like they lost a fight with Sherman Williams.

It sounds a bit draconian, but it's all non-lethal. Note that this will also have no effect on the paying customers who actually came to watch the game.

Re nos. 27,32 and 37,

It was Sanders and Taguchi who stole the bases off Perez - not Grudzelianek.

Combined 2004 VORP from Bonds and Schmidt: 202.1

San Francisco record in 2004: 91-71

Combined 2005 VORP from Bonds and Schmidt: 1.5

San Francisco record in 2005: 16-15

In reading the messages on fan behavior and how significantly one's enjoyment appears to be affected by it, I've found myslef wondering how old this board is? Some of you really sound like crotchety misers. Sure, some of these things can be a tad annoying if they interfere with some dramatic moment, but this is baseball! Being there is half the joy. Some of those drunken, obnoxious fans are the same breed I went up and down the aisles high-fiving and hugging after Finley's slam or Milton's GW RBIs. These Dodgers fans, some of you so condescendingly put down, are passionate and loyal, and that's much more than you can say for the bandwagon, thin-blooded Angels fan. You know what you never see? An Angels tatoo on someone's scalp! If you want a peaceful, lazy day at the ballpark, then I'd rather you stay at home with Vinnie anyways...or better yet, find yourself a minor league club to follow, complete with demure crowds and casual fans. I bet you leave during the 7th inning stretch too. Bah!

Jeff Fassero, who started the only game I ever saw at Montreal's Olympic Stadium (in 1993), gets the start for the Giants tonight.

And from my experience, fans at Oakland Athletics games are much mellower than fans at Raiders games.

Although Frank Francisco and Doug Brocail would beg to differ.

Just a thought...

Anybody else feel that if the Lakers were in the playoffs, a lot of these rubes would be somewhere other than Dodger Stadium right now, watching said Lakers?

Stealing from myself in the Game Chatter over on BTF, with Fassero starting, Alou is going to be bringing in relievers so fast, it's going to look the chocolates on the conveyor belt on "I Love Lucy."

I think Mike Matheny is just going to have a little card tucked inside his glove to keep track of everybody.

"Hmm, lefty, throws hard, no mustache, ahh, that's Christensen!"

Lakers playoff tickets are always priced to be family-friendly. Provided your family's last name is Broad.

I loved the infobox alongside today's LAT article, comparing the new hitters and pitchers to the guys no longer with us. It rather pointedly illustrates that once out of Dodger blue, those guys turned into stiffs. Perhaps there's a secret society of sensible people at the sports desk, willing to sneak this sort of thing into the paper under Plaschke's very nose.

"Hm, the new guys are better in every category... but that table doesn't have an entry for 'heart' or 'soul'!"

(Infobox online here:)
http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodgers10may10,1,4984502.story?page=2&coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger

I hope that #64 was sarcastic.

I hope that #71 doesn't sit in my section

For the record, I'm 39.

I also think that the Angels have finally developed a consistent and loyal fan base. Why else would a lot of them be complaining about the name change?

All I am going to say is that I am not an old fogey and I cheer passionately for the Dodgers. I'm also extremely loyal to them, but I somehow am able to behave myself when I go to games.

68, 69 - Bob is on a roll.

Improbable, I'm glad to have your viewpoint. I agree that being there is half the joy and then some. And I'm no teetotaler. But I don't agree with the rest of what you say.

I don't equate drunken and obnoxious with passionate. To me, those characteristics imply the opposite. They imply to me that the ballpark experience is not enough. As you can see, there's plenty of passion here for the Dodgers among the people you call crochety misers.

If I'm wrong - if the drunkards are passionate and loyal - does that still mean they should have the right to ruin someone else's time? Someone else curses in front of our kid or slams a beachball at our head or starts a fight - and we're the condescending jerks? I don't get it. You're welcome to explain it to me, though, if you're willing

I think that Moreno felt the need to change the name at all puts that argument down immediately.

#64"You know what you never see? An Angels tatoo on someone's scalp!"

Bet Rex Hudler has them all over the place. Same with most the writers at the LA Times Sports page.

#64 You know what you never see? An Angel tatoo on someone's scalp!

Bet Rex Hudler has Angel tattoos all over the place. Same as most the writers for the LA Times Sportspage.

Sorry for the double post, but you catch my drift.

RE: #69

Very funny as usual, Bob, but I used the word "somewhere" instead of "Staples Center" by design.

The Dodgers new security guy held the same position with at Staples Center previously.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't people complained that the security (the Red Coats) at Staples was too harsh?

I guess if the Lakers had a better year, people could have been sitting outside Staples Center getting ready to turn over cars after the Lakers lost Game 4 of their opening series to Phoenix.

"Damn you, Steve Nash and your stringy hair and affinity for dating hot-looking woman!"

I've never had a beachball hit me in the head. No one has tried to start a fight with me. And never did I equate beer-swilling with passion. All I am saying is that you can't expect others to stifle their idea of a good time so you can have yours. I don't scrap with this certain fan because I can appreciate him for the element he brings to the game and love he feels for his team. And guess what? His kid loves hitting a beach ball around. So, big deal! I like the Dodger fan reputation. There is a real pride in the team, a pride in the community. I think the fact that some of you live so far away from Los Angeles is very obvious. Maybe LA baseball is too much for you, maybe a little too raw, a little too raucous. It's an element, I, however, love. I want other teams to love and hate coming to Dodger Stadium for the exact same reason. I want our collective roar to intimidate other teams. Maybe the "other" LA baseball team better suits your needs.

I love the baseball talk here, but sometimes the banter concerning actual human beings is downright elitist.

post #60, for instance, absolutely mystifies me. This is passion?

RE: #85.

It's called a sense of humor. Get one!

vr

Xeifrank

...I feel an avalanche in the distance

I don't want to turn Dodger Stadium into a morgue, and I don't think you want any fans to actually fight with each other. So we're in agreement on that. Those are the black and white issues.

But elitism comes in different forms. It's clear that you expect others to "stifle their idea of a good time so you can have yours" every bit as much as we do.

I think it takes a sense of humor to take a beachball off the ol' bean. It takes a sense of humor to appreciate peanuts thrown at a Giants fan. I think it's, perhaps, a deficiency in said area that keeps one away from the park. Or at least an inability to have a good time.

I sent that too soon, before I finished.

I don't think most of us are asking for the moon. All we're asking for is to cut down the profanity, the intimidation of fellow Dodger fans and the level of intoxication. Is that really so much?

Improbable-
I really liked your comments in #64. I bet half the Royal Rooters were drunk and obnoxious. In 1986 some drunk in Candlestick told my dad to "take off his bleeping Dodger hat." For me, in my braces, in that moment the rivalry was born.

That having been said, the moment the borderline behavior becomes "scary" or "blatantly offensive" I'm all for the ejection button. It's a case by case basis and none of us can articulate where the line should be drawn. More cops on the beat is a win-win.

Maybe McCourt will pay extra for the shields and horses so we can be like the Yankees.

"It takes a sense of humor to appreciate peanuts thrown at a Giants fan."

Well, there we go. So completely disagree with you here. That's pretty much irreconcilable for me.

So if you're in San Francisco, fans can throw peanuts at you to their hearts' content, I guess. If you say so. I'd rather not go that way.

I think you're assuming that I'm one of these beer swilling monsters. I, most certainly, am not. I have season tickets, show up early for batting practice whenever possible, listen to Vinnie for the first three innings on a transistor radio while my buddy keeps score. Hell, I don't even drink! But they have a right to their good time, as I do mine. Though I admit, I adore the ambience of the game, and especially Dodger Stadium. The beauty of a Dodger game is the beauty of Los Angeles is the beauty of America. We are a diverse group. Enjoy each other!

Improbable, it sounds to me like the fans you are talking about are not the same "fans" that they are talking about, and thus your accusation of elitism is somewhat misplaced.

The "fans" the rest of the thread is talking about are those who:
1) Do not care about watching the game
2) Like to start fights
3) Will interrupt the game doing stupid stuff, which is further proof of #1

You seem to be talking about boisterous fans who DO love the Dodgers and ARE interested in watching the actual game and are NOT starting fights with other people sitting in the stadium. That's totally fine and cool. But I don't think those are the fans that the complaints are about, except maybe the beach ball thing.

So, you endorse throwing objects at people who come to the stadium to root for the opposing team? That's humorous? At what point does it stop being funny? beers? batteries?

And I've had peanuts thrown at me at Candlestick AND SBC, or whatever it's called now, and I enjoyed it. It was like a rite of passage, a small suffrage for my boys. Like Lent.

I'm with Jon.. I don't need to hear some dude sitting behind me (in the pavilion) scream "F-you left fielder" or "You're a (deragatory homosexual reference) left fielder" the whole damn game. Call me elitist, but I think it is lame. If you are gonna heckle someone, at least take the time to come up with something good.

I don't have a problem with folks throwing peanuts or whatever at Giants fans. I don't do it myself, but it is relatively harmless. Picking a fight with another fan on the other hand because they like a different team than you is lame.

Improbable, that's all fine and dandy, you sound like a great Dodger fan. Perhaps the intimidation, violence and vulgar language doesn't bother you. If you had a 10 year old son or daughter you took to the game, and you had one of these fans sitting near you, how would you feel then?

vr

Xeifrank

Some of you sound like nuns and school marms! It's a ballgame! It's supposed to be irreverent at times. Jesus, it's a sport decorated by the Cobbs, Ruths and Mantles!!

"Fun" is great. It takes many forms. However, even the "funnest" activities of any kind in life are no longer fun when:

(1) any person involved is very uncomfortable with how they are being treated
(2) any person feels threatened
(3) any person is verbally abused
(4) any person is physically abused or assaulted
(5) people are generally and consistenyly inconsiderate of those around them in a public setting
(6) children are forced to overhear highly inappropriate laguage on a continual basis.

Beach balls? Merely an annoyance. But any person can be a true fan, or whatever, and still have a good time while adhering the personal standard I've outlined.

It's when fan behavior violates these provisions that I wish I had stayed home. This appears to be becoming increasingly common, for any number of reasons. If more security at the park reverses the trend, it's money well spent.

And this is coming from someone waaaay under 30.

You guys sound like Nuns and School Marms! This is baseball not sunday school! It's supposed to be irreverent at times! It's patron saints are Cobb, Ruth and Mantle!!

I agree with 91. But I think that's what most around here are trying to reach anyway, some kind of moderate consensus on the best way to handle a problem. Do two drunk guys running around on the field "ruin it for everyone," like mom used to say? Maybe. And the elements of sexual harassment and gambling in the Daily News story are obviously inconsistent with a family environment (being the father of three girls, that carried a lot of resonance) So while I see where Improbable is coming from, I don't think there is the wide gulf between him and us that he thinks. And nobody should throw anything at anybody -- that was literary license I hope. But on the other hand, I think you should only boo your own players -- for crying out loud, what else are you supposed to do when Grabowski comes to the plate?

As for baseball:

Lineups are out. Choi, Drew, Ledee and Robles are in the starting lineup.

sorry for the double post...thought it got lost in the internet fray.

I enjoy the surroundings at any ball park. With that said, none compare to Dodgers Stadium. I used to attend a lot of games each year. Usually right around 35 to 40. However, as much as I love the Dodgers and the Stadium, I dislke what has been happening lately with the unruly fans. Sure, when the Dodgers score or make a big play, I'm right there with the unruly fans high fiving and cheering. But, I get irritated when those same fans start dropping the "F Bomb" with children around. I could tolerate it if kids weren't around. I still wouldn't like it, but would just deal.

Yeah, yeah, you pay your money and can do whatever....so you think. People that are unruly with their own kids with them, need to be re-evaluated as parents.

That's enough from me and my ranting.

I will take beach balls over unruly/rude fans any day.

By the way, I am 40.

Go Blue!

Should the ballpark be a safe-haven from life? Just a question. Not expressing any bias...yet

Looking foward to Robles. Hope he has a big day.

I'm pretty much ready to let this discussion go with the game about to start. But I guess I feel like you're not really listening, Improbable. You keep making comments like, "This is baseball not sunday school! It's supposed to be irreverent at times," as if we've denied this. Of course we agree.

I'm willing to accept that my idea of obnoxiousness is not everyone else's. What you don't seem willing to accept is that your idea of irreverance is not everyone else's. I've made plenty of concessions on my end - yet you seem unwilling to make any on yours.

Yeah and no thanks for me siding with you in #91 either. Heck- I'm going with the nuns!

Speaking of baseball (and not the Dodgers), watching Manny Ramirez go after a fly ball is fun.

As for the stadium issue, I don't think it should be a safe haven from life. Some of the people "acting a fool" don't pull the same crap "in life" that they do at the Stadium though.

On the F word, I currently live in Payson, Utah (though trust me, I know of what I speak about Dodger Stadium). Per capita, the F word is spoken perhaps less here than in 98% of cities in the known world. I took my kids to McDonald's a few days ago and in the corner were two guys. We went over to sit down near them, since it was a convenient table. No sooner did we sit down than I heard their conversation. It was in that charming language where every other word begins with F. We moved immediately.

I guess two lessons:

1) The Dodgers can't be Big Brother, policing every naughty word in a society that is already vulgar.
2) Many times at Dodger games, you can't move.

So what to do? I know this is rarely the case for me, but I admit that I don't know. I suspect that the followup to the news-heavy stuff of the last week will be a lot of sit-columns proposing easy answers where there are none.

No fighting. No throwing things on the field or at players. No uncontrollable debauchery. Concessions made. Good Enough?

I think the baseball stadium SHOULD be a place that you can take your family (young impressionable children included) without having to expose them to constant vulgarity, intimidation, violence etc... It doesn't have to be as pure as sunday school, but if I don't want them exposed to this stuff I have the right to keep them at home without having my fan loyalty being called into question.

I have a feeling that someone on this board is very very liberal. :)

Can't wait for the Game Message board to open up... and this discussion ended.

vr

Xeifrank

But you cannot censor the clever witticisms and probing insults of the fans!

Yep - that's mostly what I was looking for.

Well, I'd add no throwing things at fans, but I guess we'll agree to disagree. :)

Improbable,

Is it good that one fan shot another fan in the parking lot last season? Is that your idea of having the right to have a good time?

It's me. I admit it. I'm very, very liberal. :)

Those are strange rules. You can throw stuff at other fans, but not on the field? You can participate in controllable debauchery? I'm not convinced.

Was it a Giants fan? Then yes, great time.

When I want to participate in debauchery, I go to bars where it is encouraged. I don't have to worry about watching my mouth (unless I want to have my butt kicked) and there aren't kiddies around.

Would suggest Improbable88 goes back and reads the BB post from last week. I might make clear that the overiding position of posters here isthat we object to things that cause delay of game, such as the on field idiots last week (and there friends who exacerbated the situation), the throwing of items, the use of language that children shouldn't hear, and unruly behavior (i.e. fighting, drunkeness, etc.). To detest such behavior is in no way elitist. It's simply a matter of civility.

2 requests

1. Please don't feed the troll(s).

2. Please open up the game message board.

Over/Under on Erickson set at 4 1/3 innings pitched.

Who is taking the over and who is taking the under?

vr

Xeifrank

Under. Way Under.

"To detest such behavior is in no way elitist. It's simply a matter of civility."

LOL

Xeifrank - this is today's game chat. I think we can lay the other discussion to rest - the fire is out and Improbable is rather clearly joking around at this point.

I'll take the over of 6 innings pitched, because I'm an optimistic idiot.

Well, perhaps not THAT much of an idiot - I'll say 5 1/2.

"I may not agree with what you have to yell at Barry Bonds, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it"

Voltaire

I'm going out on a limb here, but you're on Steve :)

The Dodger fan in me would like to take the over..

The realist tells me it is a risky proposition.

#83.

I'm mostly in line with what you're saying. I want the fans to feel strongly about the team, though you won't catch me running up and down the aisles. Mostly, I go to games hoping our boys put a beat-down on the other team on the field, and couldn't give a cr@p about what's going on in the stands. As far a beachballs and rowdiness and such goes, I don't really have a problem, if that's what you're into.

I do have a problem with guys running onto the field, the throwing of trash/baseball/food/beer, and a dozen beachballs per game falling into the outfield and holding up the game. That stuff doesn't make the stadium experience more intimidating for the opposition, it makes it a joke to the rest of the league. I could do without that.

In a way, all this means the Dodgers are finally growing up in LA (or LA is just growing up), because I think DS has been the notable exception among urban ballparks (namely Fenway, Shea, Wrigley, Comiskey, Yankee Stadium, the Vet) for a really long time. Dodger fans have been pretty milquetoast and passive in the past. I like the passion and pride in the team from the fans, but we can't expect to have total anarchy.

You can call me crotchety if you want, but I've already had to get into it with some jerk this year for chucking a half-full beer from the Loge at Scott Eyre. Friggin' Scott Eyre, dude. When it comes to the point where I have have to stick up for the GD Giants, I'm sorry, but I get a little cranky.

FYI, I'm only 26, and I'm from Culver, so I doubt that it's just a "old-man-from-the-suburbs" thing

Here's some good pregame comic relief:
http://tinyurl.com/doee7

Sad to say, I'll take the under on Erickson.

Does anyone know if Robles can actually play 3B?

Also, does anyone know if Robles got his Visa and is in the US yet?

vr

Xeifrank

I assumed that Robles already had his visa because he participated in ST.

I'd like to weigh in a bit for Improbable here. I personally do think that security can be better, even though I've never had a problem at a game, and I went to about 25 games as recently as last summer, but I think Improbable has a point with regards to things like the complaints about beach balls around here.

BTW, I think Eric L is right that bad behavior is limited to parts of the stadium. I usuall sat in the field boxes, and sometimes inner reserve, and in about a quarter of home games, I've never heard anything worse than "Barry Sucks."

I don't like beach balls--they are a distraction--but if you read some of the stuff around here, there seems to be a belief that the ushers should aggressively eject fans who do nothing more than toss a beach ball around. Is this really realistic? Can you imagine the practical difficulties doing something like that. Never mind the fan reaction.

Sure, at some point, enough is enough, and I think it's a good idea to add some uniformed cops. But I think Improbable does have a point. I frown on things like throwing peanuts at Giants fans. If I had kids, I would make sure to impart that to them. But I also don't think that the ushers should make it a point of tossing a fan who throws a few peanuts at someone. If it happens in front of them, sure, give a warning. If it becomes anything more serious, definitely toss the fan.

But with regards to stuff like profanity, I'd rather live and let live. If it's catcalling that makes women feel unsafe, that's a different matter. But throwing someone out for yelling "F---- blank" strikes me as too much, and I'm a guy who doesn't even usually have one beer at the Stadium.

I'm really sympathetic to some of the posters' points here about fan behavior, but when you've got maybe 40,000 people in a public place, you really have to pick your spots. Draw the line at actual fights. Throwing trash on the field like the recent episode at 2-dollar Tuesday. But elimiating the use of profanity, general raucousness, and beach balls is just asking too much of the security force, unless you want to make the Stadium resemble an armed camp. And reading the gist of the comments here, that kinda sounds a lot like what some posters want.

WWSH

Robles is starting if I'm not mistaken.

I'm just wondering how frustrated Joe Thurston is right about now. getting another MI above him in the pecking order can't be good for the ego.

Yes, Robles at third.

All good points, Wayne, except I don't think you quite need to get to the point where a "woman feels unsafe" to step in and do something about that. Having daughters makes one sensitive to this point.

Jim, I would do it, but I don't know what to do! :)

We're about to find out if Choi can hit a curveball. If I'm not mistaken, that is one of Morris' best pitches.

I hope Choi sitting for a couple of games hasn't cooled off his hitting streak. We need runs tonight!

Early notes from games around the league:

After Homering against the Unit last night (3), Beltre is 0-2 with a K against the mighty Wang.

LoDuca homered (2) off Brandon Backe.

Padres have a runner at 2nd, no outs in the 4th but trail CIN 2-0. CIN blew a 4-run lead in the ninth last night and eventually lost to the Padres in th 13th.

Last night on the SCSR, Mark Gubicza opined about how the Dodgers don't want to fall behind in the count to Morris because his curveball is so good. He said the Dodger hitters need to be aggressive early in the count and look for fast ball counts. Also said Dave Duncan emphasizes to his pitchers the importance of throwing that first strike in each count.

FYI.

vr

Xeifrank

It's just a friendly bet, Steve...the loser has
to go `Arrgh'.

attaboy

Nice, nice, nice at bat.

Bad news - the Cardinals are 5-0 on Tuesdays this season.

Why even take the field?

YAY CHOI!

three cheers for Choi!

So Choi singles on the ninth pitch of the at-bat. So much for Mark Gubicza. Pitchers look out for each other.

While it would be very likely that I would not be going "arrgh" if Scott Erickson can somehow scratch his way through five innings, I will make that bet.

And this umpire's strikezone is terrible. That high strike does Erickson no good, because the ball will go 450 feet if he ever throws it there.

Stuck watching Gameday at work. Did Our Boy Choi have a chance to break up the DP?

No

Not so impressed with the DP ball, but I'm not in the mood to give the run back.

#149: Yeah, the ump is calling strikes at the shoulders. Though, I don't think you're giving Erickson enough credit. If he throws it up there, I'm thinking at least 500 feet.

Ancient art of interpreting game cast -

What happened to Claussen in the Cincy/SD game? Ramon Hernandez "singled to pitcher" than a pitching change was made. Did he do the splits or something? Some guy name-a Coffey came in and got out of the jam, but 5+ innings of Red bullpen does not bode well.

No, he doesn't throw that hard. So you don't get the benefit of the equal and opposite reaction.

Now we have somewhere to put Albert.

Ugghh, must survive 3-4-5...

Man, GameDay Audio's fragged again and I get to follow the game on GameCast. Yeah!

Time to hope for a DP.

Steve's right. I think the deepest HR I've ever seen was the one McGwire (with Oakland) hit off of Randy Johnson (with Seattle) in the Kingdome.

#157 - My GameDay Audio is OK. What's wrong with yours?

#159 I think that was clocked at like 104 off of the bat

Outs=Good

Sincerely,
Captain Obvious

I get the distinct feeling it's gonna be a long night for both pitchers.

Dodged that bullet...

For those who are watching on TV, how far were the flyballs hit off Erickson going?

XF, what happened to my Arrrgh expectancy ratio after that comebacker?

Hey, that's our "crafty veteran starter" (tm) pitching his way out of trouble. I feel very comfortable with this game, provided we now turn around and score 10 runs in the second inning.

Too bad Tracy thinks Erickson will be able to repeat this feat in the seventh inning.

Has Matt Morris always looked like a hobo, or is this a new thing?

He's going for the Gene Garber look, Reg.

BTW, that's a heck of a ballgame going on between Moneyball Original and Moneyball Ultra (Now with Money!) in Boston. Johnny Damon's wondering why no one else can get a hit.

170. LOL

Well, we went around the horn in that inning.

Saarloos must excel in some new-fangled peripheral stat we've never heard of:

35ip, 8k, 17bb, 5.09era

That line would stroke Kirk Reuter's ego.

173 - Saarloos usually pitches well in the first few innings and then collapses in the 5th or 6th. Macha tends to leave him in too long. Sound familiar?

Scott Rolen reminds me of a tarantula when he goes after a grounder to his left - a BIG tarantula.

Does Charlie Steiner know bats are not made out of pine?

Huston Street mowing the 3/4/5 hitters in the 6th is the Jim Tracy fantasy we've been waiting for.

Tracy and Grabowski for Macha

Robles hustled down to first on that pop-up. Plaschke's going to love him.

176 - Beane will never let go of Huston Street, sadly. He'll be the closer after the As trade Dotel sometime this season.

Erickson strikes out on three called strikes? Pathetic, even for a pitcher.

Woo Hoo! GameDay Audio is back up and running. I wonder how many people I'd have to kill to actually get them to run DSL to my house here in Arkansas?

To be fair to Erickson, he didn't get a chance to hit alot earlier in his career. Prior to this season, he had a grand total of 16 ABs.

RE 179:

I dunno. How many'd you have to kill to get electricity?

180 - I'll admit I'm way too harsh on pitchers up to bat. I always feel like they should have special inside knowledge that'll help them to hit the ball.

RE 181:

Umm.... 7 or 8, but nobody that would be missed. Just kidding. Never know when the feds might be reading.

Like having `Swing' embossed on it?

Nice job there, Erickson. I forgive you for the three called strikes earlier.

If Dodger Hill's phone company is SBC or Comcast, they're all demons working there, so he wouldn't actually be killing any humans.

Why do I get the impression every time that Scott Erickson is pitching there should be a picture of guy lighting a match and then a fuse burning with a stacatto Lalo Schifrin theme playing in the background.

I go away and look what happens. 1-0? Overs/unders on how many more outs that lasts before Erickson gives up a slam and a 3-run shot?

RE: pitchers hitting

I've never understood why the starters don't take more BP, or do they? Seems to me if you're gonna be 1/9 of the offense every fourth or fifth day you might want to work at that part of your game.

Where does the K go in Choi, again?

Let's just hope Tracy isn't lulled into complacency by Erickson's pitch count.

Oh, who am I kidding? It's Tracy.

La Russa to Ump: Grew can't be safe. My reputation's at stake here.

Ump to LaRussa: You don't even know the kid's name.

Come on, Ledee! We could use a 3-run homer right about now.

Thank you first base ump.

Not a homer, but I'll certainly take it.

He only partially heard you, Christina. Say it louder next time.

I want Phillips to homer just so I can watch him awkwardly chug around the bases with his tongue stuck out.

Ledee's been a fine little pickup, hasn't he?

I love it when Ledee comes through. One of my best friends is a Giant fan and goes nuts when Ledee hits as a Dodger considering how bad he was as a Giant.

Anyone listening to Monday call that play at the plate with Bradley? Terrible.

News alert for Ricky Ledee fans: please to see his splits last year with Philly (first half) vs San Francisco. Fluke, fluke, fluke...

Jason Phillips is a stud.

Damn, Gameday is minutes behind.

GameDay froze. What happened with Phillips' AB?

Icaros/200: what was wrong with the Monday call of that play? I wasn't listening closely.

Christina/203: Phillips had an RBI single. 3-1 Dodgers.

So the Cardinals got a run just because Scott Erickson showed up?

He said the throw was offline. Then he goes back and says it started offline but tailed back in and Bradley would've been out had the catcher not dropped the ball.

I have a love/hate relationship with "In play, run scoring play." I'm missing out on all the scoring on TV, because my wife is watching American Idol.

Alex Cora was able to score from Anaheim on that single by Phillips, for the Cardinals of all things.

There's a baseball roulette wheel that somewhere is determining the number of runs Erickson will give up.

Edmonds singles.

Monday said that the throw was offline but it tailed back and Bradley was out if Diaz had held onto the ball.

When it looks like Gameday is stuck it's usually because there's a play where they have to wait for an official scorer's decision. Because if they have to go back and change things, then they get all messed up.

That was pretty predictable.

205 - you got the score wrong -it's 3-2

Roulette wheel says two runs.

So far.

Dodgers 3, Cardinals 2.

Joking around about the cardinals scoring runs is now officially not funny anymore.

Think Rolen stung his hands on that one?

I may, unfortunately, win that bet after all.

I'm still hoping for another front-end starter at the trading deadline.

It's always a question of when, not if, Erickson gives up the gopher ball.

scareduck - you jinxed us!

ominous . . .

Stupid Erickson!

(Sound of clearing throat...)

Ledee threw down either his glove or hat in digust on that one.

I don't think it's mathematically possible for a lead to evaporate faster.

3-3.

Why do I always come in to these games when the Dodger pitchers start to collapse?

Re: 220 And how many.

So do we have anyone up in the bullpen yet, or is Tracy still napping?

For all those watching at home:

That last pitch by Erickson was so bad, ________ could have hit it out.

Go.

I win. AARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Can anyone explain why Erickson is still in the rotation instead of Alvarez?

Man, Erickson sucks.

Why do I always come in to these games when the Dodger pitchers start to collapse?

Because you know nothing other than misery.

That was quick. Can we pull Erickson know while we are even?

Icaros/234: sure, but in that case, are cause and effect reversed?

Icaros/234: sure, but in that case, are cause and effect reversed?

In the end, it makes no difference.

233: sure, Erickson sucks, but his wife is really hot.

Bat. For. Erickson. Top of the order in the fifth. Eckstein already owns him. Bat. For. Erickson.

It will never happen.

That last pitch by Erickson was so bad, Jason Grabowski could have hit it out.

In Erickson's defense, it didn't help that Robles/Ledee couldn't reel in Sanders's fly ball either.

Is it just me or does Ledee seem pretty below average out in LF?

Ok. Four innings is all you can ask for from Erickson and Tracy should pinch hit for him. I'd rather stop playing Erickson-roulette.

Rick Monday gripe of the day... paraphrasing for effect:

"(dull monotone) Reggie Sanders can be a power threat when he gets a pitch he can handle... AND HE GETS ONE HE CAN HANDLE HERE! THAT ONE IS GONE!"

Clever segue Rick! Really fun for the listeners at home.

Icaros/237: of course it makes a difference; no way I'm jinxing the Dodgers. I mean, really -- I've seen them win! And in person!

Tracy was going to bat for Erickson but unfortunately the temperature in hell was stuck at 34 degrees.

So not only do we send Erickson back out there, with his WHIP higher than his ERA and his .9 K/9 strikeout rate, but we tube our own half of the fifth by giving away the first out. That is fantastic. It's that kind of shrewd counter-intuitive move that wins Tracy the plaudits of pundits from Bill Plaschke to John Kruk.

Chris H/241: Ledee has a 95 Rate2 -- BPro agrees with you he's below average, but not terribly so.

And did I mention his 4 HR/9 rate?

Just 55 pitches for Erickson though!

Someone please advise Tracy that he has a bullpen that other clubs would kill for -- even with Gagne still out -- and to USE IT!

Yeah, a home run every 25 pitches sounds about right.

Maybe Tracy wants Erickson waived and he's showcasing him for DePo.

I know - Tracy feels Erickson is the only pitcher who can get Matt Morris out. GENIUS!!

Five innings?

Roulette wheel says, 6-3, Cards.

I mean, was there really any better spot in this game for Jason Grabowski to show up than that one? Since I've resolved myself to seeing him once a game, I was all prepared to give Tracy credit for bringing him in. Now we'll no likely see him with two on and two out in the eighth. And that will be great for my blood pressure.

I'm torn. On the one hand, I'm praying that Erickson gets through this inning unscathed. But that just means we'll see him in the 6th. Someone please tell me what I should hope for?

Who would have guessed at this point in the season:

Choi: .275-5-12
Drew: .277-5-13

Before tonight, Choi's OPS was .885, Drew's .883

wow

Drew's knee just flashed before my eyes.

Great play, though.

JD is trying to save us.

Erickson made an out. Long term him now!

so it starts...

256 -- we're beyond hope.

At least we have somewhere to put Albert.

256 - I kinda think Tracy's going to let Erickson pitch this whole inning no matter how big of a disaster it is, so pray for unscathed.

Consider Erickson 'scathed.' Maybe even 'extra scathed.'

Oh, by the way, there's no one up in the bullpen, so stop hoping.

Okay, roulette wheel says 5 runs.

Oh, but guys, they're not hitting the ball hard. Just right where they want to hit it.

264: I agree, only because if you can't let your starter go 5 innings, he has no business being a starter. But, of course, I don't think Erickson has any business being a starter.

Anybody watching the game on TV can tell whether Choi had a chance, or was he frozen?

horrible, just horrible

I've never been so relieved at an RBI single.

Leaving Erickson in here is not near as bad as leaving Nomo in for 18 starts last season.

No chance for Choi. Right in the hole.

We deserved that. We deserve everything we get.

Please bring your hook...

Gameday says "coaching visit to mound", but thanks to Steve's info in 266, we know how pointless that is.

Hurry up, Alvarez

Ahem. I feel a hollow victory coming on...

Three run home run here, then he's gone. We all go down together, you know.

There may be someone up now, Colborn was out there forever. But as usual, we had to wait for the perfectly obvious to occur.

Rolen will hit a comebacker to Erickson. Unfortunately for Erickson, it will bounce off his head and into the stands.

I called 5 1/2 innings at the start, just for the record.

alvarez ready, according to steiner

The best thing that can happen now is a walk or hit batter. Then Tracy can take him out without any more runs being scored. Yet.

Sorry to say, how predictable is all of this?

My fondest wish is that Scott and the lovely bride, Lisa, will be able to spend their summer sunning at Cabo after his (soon) release by the Dodgers.

Christina -- how many batters come up in a half inning?

Nice throw, Scott. We deserved that too.

Who's injured?

Now I feel bad for making fun of Saarloos earlier in the thread:

Saarloos
35ip, 8k, 17bb, 5.09era

Erickson
30ip, 5k, 12bb, 6.46era

choi but i think hes ok

Watch as Tracy pulls Choi for Saenz, but leaves Erickson in...

286 - I figured he'd be pulled in the middle of a count. Heh.

You were close. Erickson put the hurt on Choi instead.

288: Choi and Rolen.

Rolen hurt. Choi shaken up but still in there.

"Injury Delay" on MLB Gameday. Who's down?

oh man. That first pitch to Sanders was, um, not quality. We are very, very lucky.

We may be losing, but at least I can look forward to four more innings of Steiner telling me how absolutely freaking fantastic every single Cardinal is. Great.

289 - Saarloos and Erickson are really the same, neither has any business being a starting pitcher. As middle relief, they'd be okay. So no need to feel bad--mock away at Saarloos!

Any ideas who becomes our 5th starter once we release Erickson? Alvarez supposedly can only start in emergencies, because of injury concerns. Maybe give Houlton a chance next time out, before turning it over to Dessens?

But Erickson is a starter (TM). The idea of him throwing an inning every third day is just crazy. (Sarcasm alert).

Not many batters seem to be missing any of Ericsons pitches. Except for Sanders (pitch 3) nobody has swung and NOT missed for some time now, more than this inning.

Didn't Houlton get slaughtered a few games ago?

Granted, not much different than what we're seeing right now.

300: Dodgers could ruin Edwin Jackson and his two pitches.

we need to call up jackson, if not now, soon

I think Dessens has a lock on that spot once he's ready again.

Alvarez should be brought in to get the last
out. Ericson is going to make at least one bad pitch to Saunders......

I really, really, really hate Jim Tracy.

Damn, it's time for Erickson to go...

NOW can we have the hook?!

Like I was saying........

Never saw that coming.

You have got to be kidding me . . .

Good job Opie. Game is now out of reach.

On the bright side, that's probably the lasty we'll see of Scott Erickson.

wow steve, you were right on the money.

Good night, Gracie.

That ball got scorched coming down from reentry.

And I thought Se7en was a movie about a serial killer. It's really about Erickson.

Will Tracy get this guy the hook anytime soon?

Ok.. that sucks, but at least it should make it clear to all key parties that Erickson no longer has any business pitching in the major leagues.

Well, if he pitches five and finishes the inning, he'll be in line for the win!

Well, I made it by 1/3 of an inning...but I'm giving it to you, Steve. AARRRRGGGGHHH!

He's still on the mound?!

Understatement of the year from Joe Buck after that double. "That might be it for Erickson. This game is getting away from him."

Scott, I hope you and lisa will be very happy in your new home in Las Vegas

we finally get the hook

File Erickson under "E" right before Encarnacion on the list of guys DePo has to put on a bus out of town to keep Tracy from using.

How many home runs must Erickson give up?

make that right after Encarnacion. who cares.

This has become morbidly fascinating.

Tracy has taken him off the mound and hopefully straight to the airport.

i'm still shocked by the accuracy of steve's crystal ball in #279

It appears Tracy subscribes to Lyons' view on how doubles are more important than home runs. No need to pull Erickson after a homer, but the guy gives up a double, THEN he's gotta go!

Once through the order. That seems like how much Erickson can do.

And really that is fine beacuse we have so many pitchers in the bullpen. Have Erickson go 3, Alvarez go 3, and then hand it off to the rest of the pen. That seems totally reasonable every 5 days.

Erickson + anagram finder = nock sire

That's becuase doubles demonstrate the other team's heart. Whereas homers are just a stat. Yeah, that's it.

You know, everyone says "You shouldn't second guess, blah, blah, blah." Who's second guessing here? What do we know about pitching? You have to strikeout people to be successful. You can't have five strikeouts over 30 innings. You can't give up three homeruns a game. If you hit the fifth inning, and Scott Erickson has just given up two bombs, but you're lucky enough to be tied, you take your losses and you get the hell out. NOW, you're down four runs and you STILL have to use up the bullpen throwing meaningless garbage innings.

Jim Tracy costs this team runs and games. To deny it is to deny the sun rising in the morning. Defend that. Go ahead. Someone try to defend what we just saw.

Don't forget, doubles also demonstrate the other team's power. Triples only indicate speed, and homers are rally-killers!

I hate to give up on an Arizona grad, but Erickson just ain't got it anymore.

Please shoot me. Why was Erickson pitching to Grudzielanek?

Hey, you're preaching to the choir, Steve.

It wasn't even just one opportunity to pull him at the tie, he also could've been pulled when we were still down by just one run.

Bleah.

Scott Erickson has incriminating photos of Jim Tracy?

He probably got them from Jason Grabowski.

Scott Erickson has incriminating photos of Jim Tracy?

He probably got them from Jason Grabowski.

7 pitches from Alvarez to one batter, and the nightmare inning is finally over.

Incriminating photos of Jim Tracy with an underaged sheep. In crotchless panties.

And now he's using Alvarez in a game where we're four runs down...and they're still the Cardinals. Where's Schmoll? We already lost this game. So now Thursday, when Weaver gives up his six, I'm going to have to hear about how Tracy used Alvarez et. al. tonight. I know, let's warm up Wilson Alvarez, our most important middle reliever, just long enough to let Reggie Sanders hit a game-ending three run bomb off of us, then bring in Alvarez to pitch the meaningless garbage time. That's just brilliant. Ryne Sandberg is doing jumping jacks in his living room because "the Dodgers are falling apart" but rest assured, Jim Tracy will remain one of the brilliantly, brilliantest managers in the whole world.

Sheep in crotchless panties are a turn-on?

#344

Speaking of lingerie maybe we could all chip in and buy Erickson a black-lace garter with an embroidered rose. It'll help him see out of his third eye, like a Mayan. Then he'll give up less doubles I'm sure.

In past seasons, I have appreciated the way Tracey will show patience in a pitcher or hitter and I have seen that work out with good results. That said, I think it is important to realize that we are playing the CARDINALS, not a lessor foe with a weaker lineup and bullpin.

Leaving a pitcher in too long when he is clearly loosing steam hurts the team and can also hurt the pitchers confidence.

Look on the bright side, we're still facing Matt Morris, and Erickson managed to hurt Scott Rolen.

That should help us for the next two days.

Way to kill the rally before it even starts Kent.

Nice one, Jeff!

One down, three more to go.

It's still raining here in Oregon, Steve, so I haven't seen the sun in days.

I think it's time to start lobbying DePodesta to take Erickson away from Tracy. Like a baby with scissors.

LaRussa shows up Tracy.

Oh damn, coaching visit to the mound.

Because the other coach is a lot smarter than Tracy. Duh.

So LaRussa demonstrates the old Sparky Anderson "Captain Hook" technique, just to show Tracy how it's done.

Wha's wrong with LaRussa? He pulled the ptcher before he blew the lead.

353 -- that's what generally happens when Tracy starts acting like an idiot. DePo "disappears" the relevant player. See Mota, Encarnacion, Martin, Roberts.

I expect Scott Erickson is not going to be on the roster by tomorrow.

#354: Aaargh.. that makes me even more mad.

A home run and a single back to back and the Cardinals pitcher is yanked

LaRussa just isn't as bester than Tracy!!!!

DePo as Manuel Noriega.

Speaking of idiot managers, Phil Garner refused to go to Brad Lidge tonight, and the Marlins scored five in the eighth to win 6-2.

Neil/347: yeah. The rose goes on the front, big guy.

Plunk.

This rally just makes me even more depressed about the previous half inning.

Ledee takes one for the team...

Can't DePo "disappear" Tracy?

Hey Steve, I think this inning demonstrates why we're using Alvarez. This game is by no means out of reach. You certainly don't give up when you're down four runs in the 6th.

367 -- I'm working on that.

Larry Walker has sold his soul to still be able to move that quickly.

Okay, game over. Phillips was our only chance until Izturis.

Wow Grabs in the on-deck circle.

I'm going to prememptively ask that Wilson Alvarez not bat this inning.

Speaking of guys who need disappearing... Grabowski. Steve, can you do something about him, too?

Grabowski? You're kidding.

-373

I'd rather see Alvarez take a hack than the likely alternative.

Be careful what you wish for...

And now we go to Schmoll in the sixth anyway.

Grabs on deck in almost precisely the situation Steve predicted a couple hundred posts ago, except it's not the 8th yet.

How's the blood pressure, Steve?

He might walk him!

I think I'd rather see Odalis Perez batting

I'm just gonna type 3-RUN SHOT and hover over the submit button.

Wow, a quality at bat from Grabowski.

IZZZZZZZZZY!!!! Come on, man!

So much of baseball is rank incompetence.

382 - change that to SALAMI and hover over the submit button.

Shhhhhhhhh...

2-RUN SINGLE!

At least we won't see Rolen tomorrow. Sprained left shoulder, x-rays to follow.

If Grabowski goes down when Werth comes back, that will mean we have no left-handed hitters on the bench, right?

Also, Hail Cesar.

Woot!

What was Jarvis doing in there after walking Grabowski? I didn't want to jinx anything, but I am not surprised by that at all.

YES!

When scoring 5 or more runs the Dodgers are 14-1.

holy crap it's a ballgame again

Ben, we don't have any left-handed hitters on the bench now.

I guess trading most of your bullpen to get Mulder does have its downside.

Hovering... hovering...

392- Walks are just a stat.

3-RUN SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Choi we trust - Yeyaa

CHOI!

BIG CHOPPER!!!

HEE! SEOP! CHOI!

Choi rules!

All hail the Choi!

happ happy joy joy happy happy joy joy

Free shots all around!!!

choiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!

YEAH, BABY!!!!

Wow. I love this team...

Sweet. Mother. Of. Jesus.

Mrs. Choi, you've done the Dodgers a service.

If Jim Tracy had pulled Scott Rolen, Hee Seop wouldn't have been in a position to succeed.

(choi choi) i mean

Stevo -- that's

happy happy choi choi etc.

Wait, how can this be happening?

We lost the heart and soul of the team, didn't we?

TAKE THAT, PLASCHKE!!!

LaRussa and Tracy are in a mad race to see who is more incompetent. Anyone who walks Grabowski in that situation should be pitching to Ricky Henderson.

Choi is the man!!!!!!!!!!!

Ha! LaRussa sucks. He decided he'd rather face Choi than bring in a lefty and pitch to Saenz.

So, feeling a little better about things, are we, guys?

Ok even I will get on board. Choi fact of the day: He's a stud!

Thank God Larussa left Jarvis in for as long as he did.

Thank the gods that Tracy benching hot-hitting Choi for two games didn't slow him down in the slightest.

Choi is THE MAN!

And cheap - a mere $351,500!

You know, the fact that Mr. Lisa makes more than Choi is just...wrong.

Steve Schmoe comes up to be the run donor in the 6th...

scareduck, I think you jinxed us quite enough already...

This looks like the Choi who played for the Marlins in the first half of last year.

Jinxed my posterior! This is Tracy's fault!

What is Alvarez doing? Gameday shows 3 straight balls in the exact same outside spot.

come on. you gotta throw strikes to eckstein.

Four straight balls. Good work, Schmoe.

The following NL teams are getting better OPS from 1B than the Dodgers:

1. Cubs 1.217 (Lee)
2. Milwaukee 1.122 (Overbay)
3. St. Louis 1.066 (Pujols)
4. Washington .937 (Johnson)
5. Colorado .909 (Helton)
6. Florida .891 (Delgado)

I don't mind being 7th on that list. We're getting an .876 OPS from 1B so far. Eat it Plaschke.

According to Gamecast, all four of Schmoll's pitches hit the same spot. Now that's precision.

Gameday is apparently telling you Alvarez when it's Schmoll.

It's Schmoll, Christina.

Make that 4 balls.

Ha, Jarvis's ERA for the game is 13.50! Erickson's is 7.26.

427: Alvarez is sitting on the bench. Steve Schmoll is throwing balls to David Fargin' Eckstein.

(hits computer)

Now it's Schmoll. Thanks, guys.

I'm building a life-size statue of Choi out of popsicle sticks, and I'm leaving it on Bill Plaschke's front yard. Seriously.

Actually, I might be able to find enough used popsicle sticks in Plaschke's trash can to build the statue.

Can Choi play every day now? Against left handers, even? PLEASE?

Regarding our "hole" at 1B, Choi and Saenz are now a combined .286, 8 HR, 28 RBI for a total salary of $1 million. How many teams are getting more production from the position than that?

At least there's somewhere to put Pujols.

Tracy. I'll never get over this one. He's done so much that I'll never get over, and this one outstrips all of those.

GAH

i want yhency. let houlton pitch to the bottom of the order.

I feel not at all nervous about the present situation that isn't really happening. No big deal.

Chance of Pujols GIDPing: 0.0001
Chance of home run: 1:3

Can Yhency pitch two solid innings if he has to? Or is he strictly a one-inning guy?

whew pujols is really scary

While I was doing math, Fearing Blue beat me to it.

was that ball really hit to the wall like it appears on gameday?

Sac fly. Contained the damage. Kinda.

Wunsch time!

446 no inside warning track

on the bright side, jason schmidt is on the DL with shoulder trouble.

Tracy's Wunchful thinking again.

450 - I was actually sorry the Giants put him on the DL. I wanted Schmidt to lose a couple more games first with that dead arm.

wow this has been a pretty exciting game, especially for it only being the 6th inning!

What is this "getting ahead of the batter" thing?

Crucial K there.

Oh, hot dog.

454 -- LOL. We did it last week once. You might have forgotten.

I find that Steiner doesn't pick up the ball in the outfield well. He scared the hell out of me with his call of that Pujols fly ball.

Other than that, he and Lyons aren't doing a bad job at all. I've heard a lot worse.

good job wunch. we need more runs - I'm thinking 4 more should just about do it.

First K of the night by a Dodgers pitcher.

Cardinals pitchers have 2!

yea he is really bad with high fly balls, he reacts with the crowd.

Well, this new pitcher has a 6.97 ERA - let's go for six more runs!

7, if youre into rounding up

Other than that, he and Lyons aren't doing a bad job at all. I've heard a lot worse.

Perhaps from Al Downing, graduate of the Moe Syzlak School of Broadcasting.

I hate to say it but I'd almost rather hear Psycho talking most of the time than Charles "House Money" Steiner. A little too much ESPN catch-phraseyness rubbed off on him at some point.

Actually I was thinking of the Angels TV team in the 80s. They were pretty awful. Even the Braves guys are better than that duo was.

Believe it or not, the Giants and Pirates are still scoreless in the 4th and each team has only one hit. Dave Williams vs. Jeff Fassero.

Left in the LA pen: Houlton, Carrara and Brazoban.
And the Dodgers have to get another nine outs. Ugh.

Ahhh. Sanchez throws ball four.

For Chrissakes, throw a strike!

I officially hate our entire pitching staff.

At this rate, Sanchez will walk in the game winning run.

Steve: even including Ghame Over?

The Nats have pulled ahead of the DBacks 2-0 in the 5th.

Estes has 8 K vs. the Nats but is down 2-0.

It didn't help that they had him come out and throw nothing but breaking garbage. As usual.

huge pitch here

At least it wasn't a 2-run homer.

Milton, why are you waving off your fellow outfielders when neither is within 50 feet?

wow steiner actually knew that was gonna be just a pop fly

WP of the Dodgers preventing me from quitting smoking today: 68.5%

Sanchez doesn't do himself any favors staring down the home plate umpire after every single pitch in every single appearance either.

I'm hyperbolizing. But your earlier point was correct. All we do is throw three ball counts, and it's no surprise when we get killed doing it.

Gagne only struck out 2 out of 3 this time in Las Vegas, though nobody got on base. Perez yanked a 3-run jobber. Werth was 0 for 4 with 3 Ks and is now 1 for 13 with 6 Ks overall.

Yes!

HUGE DP!!!!

Yeeha!

Thank you, Diaz!

Whew . . .

A-Rod did all those things Lyons referred to about Grudz in 1998; over 200 hits, over .300 and he stole more than 30 bases. Oh yeah, he hit 46 dingers, too.

Gameday lists Robles at 155 lbs. Is he just a stick man out there (even Eckstein is listed at 165)?

OK, raise your hands if you think Tracy will bat for Choi here.

Edwards seems pretty scrappy. Should give Plaschke something to write about.

Wow, Tracy actually PH'd for the pitcher...again.

I'm getting unnaturally excited the Choi is being allowed to face a lefty. I don't even care if he makes an out.

Except that if he makes an out, Tracy will use that as an excuse to never, ever bat Choi against a lefty again...

Is it just me, or does Choi get the worst strike zone on the planet?

496: He stands pretty tall at the plate, so he does have a large strike-zone. Still, the umpires do seem to call a lot of low-inside strikes on him.

Plaschke's column tomorrow is going to recommend that the Dodgers take Jason Giambi off of waivers.

The umpire probably feels it'd be mean to have Choi pile on in this game...

Who's gonna get No. 500?

Just an observation really. It just looks like he doesn't get inside pitches that are usually balls. But the 2-2 pitch was pretty close on the outside corner and called a ball, so the equities balance I suppose.

I have finally wrested the computer from son and wife...

What a game!

SB - you must be so happy about Choi! He's da man!

Giants go up 2-0
Someone needs to remind Mil they suck

Christina, thank you for noticing. This is fun. Very.

Mr. Unstoppable, David Eckstein.

Can we please get Eckstein here? And Braz had better be warming up...

The answer, thanks to a hanging breaking ball I could have hit, is apparently not.

I am starting to intensely dislike that little munchkin...

Lyons does come up with some good ones.

Would sure fell better if the smokejumper were coming in for the 8th and Game over for the 9th. At least that way tracy could not screw it up

Steve, I'll read through the posts later but I assume there was talk of pulling Erickson before Tracy actually did the deed? I'm just guessing...

SB, if you transfer that hate from them to our own pitching staff, it keeps it in house and it's more tidy that way.

fell=feel

SB - not that that was a very wild guess, but yes. Much sarcasm and hate abounded.

Let's just say that we wasted a lot of time on that name change nonsense.

SB, you need a jack in the back of your head, ala `Neuromancer', so you can download comments.

Aw man...

There is almost no way that Braz is warming up is there. Despite the fact that he's pitched three innings in May.

We need to put a handle on that thing for Phillips

It's so obvious what needs to happen here...why say it?

518 was for the wild pitch (listening to radio here) but I'm intrigued by Jim's idea...

Yhency nhow, phlease.
Go with your best against their best.

There goes the potential DP.

NICE!!!

Wait, the potential DP is back. With Pujols at the plate, of course.

(sticks head under table)

Ok, shows what I know.

WHEE!

YES!!!!!

First pitch swinging. Much of baseball is rank incompetence. Thanks, Albert.

So they got a double play before I could submit my post cursing Tracy's name. He still should have brought in Yhency.

this game is messing with my mind.

526 - LOL

UPS just came to deliver Gio's soul to Satan . . .

What's the record for comments?

Steve, surprising the Cards announcers said that Brazoban was getting loose while Walker was batting. I'm not sure why he wasn't brought in to face Pujols, but it all worked out in the end.

536 - your witnessing DT history right here...

Now let's add on some more runs, boys! There's already been at least one blown save tonight elsewhere in MLB.

"Dan Kolb. You are no longer needed in Hell. There is another who will take your place."

At this rate, Jon will have to put up a new thread every three innings.

Jim Brower gives up 3 run HR. 3-2 Pirates. But the best part was before Jason Bay hit the HR, the announcer says "You better get Bay out here becasue you don't want to face Daryl Ward with the bases loaded." Ha Ha Ha. That's so funny. The only guy i would want to face more than Ward in a clutch spot is the Pitt catcher.

536, 538 - there was an argument early on in the thread about bad fan behavior that helped boost the post count.

What? Some of `The Best Fans in Baseball(tm) have left early????

Already put on my Ghame Over shirt ...

Ward strikes out! Yep wouldnt want to face him with the bases loaded.

Re # 543: And then we beat the bad guy into submission...

Five demerits to LaRussa for unconventional LOOGY usage.

Yeah, SB. There was a big argument about whether fans should say things like "Hey, look. When did they start putting Macy's Thanksgiving Day Balloons on top of Cardinal LOOGYs?"

quick hook la russa

547 - the bad guy? We had some controversy??

I'm gonna have to have that insert ASAP.

Whew! For a moment there I thought he was bringing in Eckersly.

Bwahahaha - coaching visit to mound!

Do they even have anyone left besides King to pitch?

Buzz Bissinger furiously rewrites his book to explain why Kevin Jarvis was left in after he walked Jason Grabowski.

Ray King can run surprisingly fast for someone that size.

549 - I'm off to get a paper towel to clean the ginger ale from my monitor. Thanks for that!:)

Troy Glaus 3 run HR. D'Backs 3-2.

Bob, keeping up with these other games is hard work. Where are you

Well, not bad guy...those he rather uncivilly mocked my civility comment :)

Perfect Perfect bunt

waiting for steve to explode....

True story. My eight-year old son, not into baseball as much as his dad, was watching the Grabowski/Jarvis AB.

"Dad, the guy with the bat looks scared! Is he okay?"

So many answers, so little time...

Milton's been trying to do that for a year plus. I don't think I'll begrudge him...this time.

Nice job, Bradley!

Will Steve explode before LaRussa?

SB - LOL

Not that the bullpen is great anyway, but doesn't tonight's game put the Cards at a shortage of relievers for tomorrow night? And meanwhile we've got our ace on the mound.

how about a rally killer i.e. homerun

wrong kind of rally killer.

Ghame over... ghame over... ghame over...

My rancor is not bottomless. I really would just like to get Braz to set these guys down 1-2-3. But everyone note that what just happened is exactly why bunting is a waste of time.

Re: Bottom of the ninth...no fear.

Crap. Okay, come on, Yhency . . .

Steve what does bunting have to do with Ladee hitting into DP?

And Repko throws out the runner at first!

Yhency sounds good on the radio so far.

1 down 2 to go

Jose Castillo hits solo HR. Pitt 2 Sf 2

Yhance 100 mph

Yes! One down!

Go figure. Edmonds looks hopeless and Nunez strokes a single.

Sorry Pitt 4 SF 2

they had duaner at 100mph last night...

Wastes the opportunity to have Bradley swing and hit the ball. We pay Bradley to hit the ball. Home runs, extra base hits. Bradley is our last big shot before the peanut gallery.

Sanders is a problem here. Hits fastballs.

It's 4-2 Pittsburgh.

Was that Nunez? Rick Monday didn't get his name in until the ball was in center field.

It's OT but Rick is really not suited for play-by-play.

Yes, it was Nunez.

You should hear him with dangling participles...

YES!

Two down!

Brazoban just hosed Sanders. Those on Gamecast did not appreciate the full beauty of that Strike 3. They need to let Sanchez do that rather than throw his Dreifort slider.

sanders giving everyone on the 1st base side a nice breeze

Three down!

Thank you Brian Cashman and Kevin Brown.

Ghame Over.

Listening to Monday makes Stiener sound like Vin

YESS!!!!!!!!!!!!

GHAME OVER!

GHAME OVER!

GHAME OVER!

phew, big K right there.

it's so nice to see a dodger pitcher actually strike some fools out.

Wow!

whoo. That was 3:32 of fun.

Never in doubt!

GHAME OVER (TM)

its official... ghame over

I see Carrara gets the win - that's really appropriate, considering he sold his soul and all.

yes, GHAME OVER!@

i didn't think i'd be saying that tonight.

The magic continues...

LAT - that last call in particular was bizarre. Grudz lines out and Monday immediately goes into the velocity of the pitches used to strike out Edmonds, then Sanders, then the last pitch to Grudz... just one long, run-on sentence.

Basically, anytime the ball leaves the bat, Monday is in trouble.

Yeah baby... Good win, fellas, and I'll enjoy the W, but I think it's becoming clear we've GOT to do something with the #5 SP spot... Just not gonna get it done there. Surely there are other options.

Best win of the games I've watched this year, for sure.

The only bad thing is that it means Tracy's ass got pulled out of the fire.

Still...TAKE THAT, PLASCHKE!

Has Scott Erickson pitched his last game as a Dodger?

Should Scott Erickson have pitched his last game as a Dodger?

Discuss. We need to get to 700!

The Plaschke Chant would be very appropriate tonight.

It's not like the rest of the NL West has anyone great in the #5 slot.

Padres - ??? (Redding is injured)
DBacks - Brad Halsey
Giants - Um, it's, um, you know the guy, he wears a glove
Rockies - Aren't they all 5th starters?

Milton Bradley is unnervingly calm and dare I say erudite on SCSR. It's extremely unnerving.

SB - Steve floated the theory earlier that DePo will have "disappeared" Erickson from the roster by tomorrow.

SB, that's not going to get us to 700. That will get us to 610.

Hi. I was lurking but not commenting out of fear of jinxing the comeback. Great victory for the team, overcoming the silly fifth.

The Giants are on reliever #5 in a 4-2 game in the 7th. Jeremey Accardo is in.

Some guy named Munter is warming up.

Maybe they could put Erickson on the DL with mental problems or something and let him rehab in Vegas.

Might've been talked about upthread but there will in fact be LAPD officers in uniform at Dodger games starting Friday, according to Henson.

http://tinyurl.com/e3u9g

If we're gonna get subpar starts out of the #5 hole every time out, wouldn't we be better served giving them to Edwin Jackson or D.J. Houlton or somebody else who might actually help us in the long run? Erickson has got to go.

You know, as much as I hate how Erickson almost destroyed us tonight, it really wasn't his fault. He does fine as a 3-inning guy. And he's never going to be more than a 3-inning guy no matter how much time he spends in the minor leagues or wherever rehabbing.

The problem is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and that comes down to Tracy.

SB,
The security changes at DS were pretty much all of Posts 1-200.

A. Martinez' guest is... Jason Grabowski???

SB - re: 614, that's pretty much what started the argument before the game. Heh.

617 - so... your saying this ground has been covered?

Bob makes a good point, but Scott Erickson is Hideo Nomo -- without the three wins in April. Seems as is the case with Grabowski, Nakamura, and others, that once you reach this point, we could see what someone else can do. The Times mentioned Pat Mahomes. He couldn't be worse. Is Erickson's contract guaranteed?

By the way, I see on Gamecast that Alvarez was credited with the win, everyone else with holds, and Braz with the save. Seems like Alvarez probably could have pitched that whole fifth inning and you wouldn't have noticed tomorrow. Of course, if Erickson hadn't given up all those runs, maybe LaRussa would have pulled Jarvis. Tracy fools us all again! He's brilliant!

How did Robles look tonight. Gameday seemed to indicate a series of weak tapouts and popups.

I think Tracy has mishandled a couple of situations this year.

That being said, if Scott Erickson can't give you more than 3 innings, he ain't your #5 starter.

Alvarez has durability issues, Dessens is hurt, Jackson still isn't consistent at AAA, and you don't know what you are getting with Houlton as this point in time.

I support both DePo and Tracy, but the lack of a #5 guy falls on DePo's doorstep.

I'm starting to love this shirt! Great job Blue.

621 - hmmm, I guess they took the win away from Gio. When I first looked at Gameday, he had the W. Well, I guess I'm okay with Alvarez getting it.

Good thing we have Penny going tomorrow - it'd be a good time for a complete game or close.

Alvarez threw 7 pitches to get the win. All in a night's work.

One could argue that Grabowski's at-bat was the most important of the game. One could also argue that Tony LaRussa has his head up a place that fans are not supposed to shout at the Stadium. I am giddy with the e-mail I'm about to send to my Cardinal fan friends.

Yeah, if all Erickson can give us is three solid innings, then maybe we keep the 12-pitcher staff and "platoon" Erickson and Alvarez in the #5 spot, since neither can go too long. I don't know - I'd be shocked if Erickson was still a Dodger a month from now.

Steve, make sure you let them know that Grabowski was the post-game guest.

Might be the last time I ever type that sentence.

#622 he wasnt very impresive to me, his defense wasnt very good either

I suppose, to be fair, we should allow Robles a little time to adjust.

The only way Alvarez could not have gotten the win is he was judged to have pitched to briefly and ineffectively.

He did pitch briefly, but he did get the one guy one out. The only time they don't give a pitcher the win in that situation is if he came in, gave up a bunch of runs, got out of the inning and then had his team rally to go ahead.

Mahomes is an option, though probably not that much better than Erickson. He's a 34 year old journeyman who last pitched 22 innings in 2003 for PIT. On the other hand, his ERA is an impressive 2.41 in the PCL, which is roughly 1/3rd of Jackson's 7.06. My vote is for Houlton, because he was a starter in the minors, and we might as well see what the kid can do.

True, true, and he ended the nightmare. I still feel for Gio, but you're right, Alvarez did earn it, with his 7 pitches (that felt like he took years to throw) and all.

I like Rainman's idea, but it would never happen because "starters" (TM) have to go five or six innings, or they are "relievers" (TM) and Scott Erickson is not a "reliever" (TM) but a "starter" (TM).

I would guess that Erickson will start Sunday (and DePo will hope for a game like tonight), and then I think I read we don't need a number 5 again until the end of May. Erickson will not be making that start.

Does anyone know when Greg Miller is supposed to start pitching again? Not that he's an option for our 5th starter, but it just got me thinking about him.

Does anyone know when Greg Miller is supposed to start pitching again? Not that he's an option for our 5th starter, but it just got me thinking about him.

What a surprise to come back to the computer after being down 7-3 (saw Reggie S's homer off Erickson and left the room in disgust) and seeing us up 9-8. You all can complain about Monday's blithering, but on mlb.com I had to hear the Cards announcers which was really obnoxious.

I kind of liked Jon's recent suggestion about the possiblity of bringing someone like Braz in during a critical situation earlier in the game, and not letting things get out of control.

Bye, bye Scott E?

I guess Jeff Fassero has the #5 job in San Francisco for a while. He went 5 shutout innings and gave up just 1 hit.

If only the Dodgers could unearth someone like that.

I saw what Houlton can do. It made me want to cry.

Extra Innings has the Cleveland broadcast of the Angels game on. It's like taking a lovely walk in the park. Very restful.

Has Alvarez -- or Tracy -- ruled out giving him a start in the near-future? That seems like the obvious choice.

I think Alvarez is just reserved for spot starts. Pitcher getting the flu, doubleheaders, stuff like that.

Steiner used the cliche "a nailbiter" to describe tonight's game. That's one I'd like to see retired. The mental image isn't pleasant. Do people still bite their nails? Or do they take Paxil for that?

If the Dodgers are found responsible for triggering obsessive-compulsive episodes, the California State Legislature might ban them.

Sorry, folks - I'm about to kill your dreams of 714 or 755 comments. New post above.

Way to go, Jon...you just killed off the rally:O

640 - I guess I was holding out hope that he'll pitch better as a starter, but that's very irrational reasoning. Houlton likely deserves a plane ticket more than he deserves a chance to start.

Alvarez is the best choice if they can figure out how to make it work from an injury perspective. Maybe limit him to 90-95 pitches and skip the 5th starter slot whenever possible? He's usually pretty efficient throwing strikes, so that should get him at least into the 6th.

I recommend we just ignore Jon's new post. It's about Scott Erickson and it's depressing, because we all know it's not going to happen, and we're just going to replay this particular Groundhog Day for another three months. :)

I get the idea that Alvarez cannot pitch a lot of innings. So while you would get a better three or four or possibly five innings out of Alvarez, you would probably STILL HAVE GROUNDHOG DAY BECAUSE TRACY WON'T TAKE ANYBODY OUT UNTIL THEY GET THEIR STARTERS (TM) SIX INNINGS!

Sorry, I'm severely taxed tonight. Imagine had we lost.

I thought we could at least catch Mays.

Is Chrysler part of GM. The Angels have a GM car promotion Sat Night and Rex says " A lot of people going out and buying GM products. Those Chryslers are hot right now!" Did GM buy Chrysler and no one told me or Daimler. Nice work Rex.

Yeah, well, Hudler still refers to the Doobies as `The Reefer Brothers'.

It is important to have a 651st comment. What a great game. Cost me money but it was still a happy night. Going into the ESPN telecast tomorrow, that game should give them plenty to talk about. If our only hole is 3b and 5th starter we are doing okay. I think A Perez will do a decent job once he comes back and by July Depo will have found us a 5th starter.
Sure will be fun to see what Penny can do tomorrow and only imagine how different last year might have been if he had been healthy.

Am I the only poster who likes Stiener/Lyon?

GREAT ALSTON'S GHOST!!!

650 posts?!?!?!?

I just finished softball night and am preparing a series of emails to my business partner is St. Louis (a former minor-league pitcher in the STL system), who was ribbing me before the game about how great Pujols is and how the Cards are going to win.

The first email: a lengthy biography of Hee-Seop Choi, courtesy of SB's "Fact of Choi" nuggets.

The rest of the emails: I dunno yet. Maybe I'll save them until after tomorrow's game for karma purposes.

A good win. A great win.

OZ,

Mock him for the fact that Kevin Jarvis walked Jason Grabowski, then LaRussa left him in to pitch to good hitters. Funniest. At-bat. Ever.

molokai, upthread about 200 posts I mentioned that other than Steiner's inability to judge fly balls to the outfield I thought he and Lyons did a creditable job tonight.

That is funny about Stiener. He really can't call a home run. Didn't his father ever teach him to watch the outfielder not the ball? Other then that and the fact he repeats himself alot I like him. I like Lyon much more on the Dodger broadcasts then when I've heard him doing the Fox baseball broadcasts.

Maybe we could get Enos Cabell to come back and play third.

Just had to post about how hot choi is. Definitely good news.

We're doing okay in the series. We lost to Mulder. Stole a victory with Erickson pitching.

Tomorrow we have Penny vs Suppan. We have a good shot at winning. Then we have Lowe vs Carpenter. Winnable again.

I'd take a split with St. Louis. Winning 3 out of 4 would be absolutely fantastic though.

I'd also like to point out that Alvarez got the win despite getting 1 out and making only 7 pitches.

What do DT and Willie Mays have in common?

This.

Bruin,

Did you get the e-mail I sent the other day?