The 11 game winning streak could touch off one of those "Could USC beat the 49ers?"-type of discussions?

What would J-ville's record in the NL West be? Could they finish ahead of the Rockies?

(Of course not, but it'd be fun to see.)

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I'm pretty certain Jacksonvile would finish behind the Kansas City Royals.

So is Russell Martin the cather of the future? What's his ETA - mid 2006? Spring 2006? What should happen to Navarro, Mike Rose, etc.? The Times didn't exactly do the team a favor the other day by calling Navarro a seatwarmer, did they?

And what happened to James Loney? Can he be the guy who burned up spring training, or does that look like a fluke now?

1
There's a reason why they're called the "minor" leagues.

The Jacksonville Suns would be fortunate to win 30 games in a major league schedule.

Kuo should be on the big club now, he is eventually going to get hurt anyway, lets milk him.
Interesting stat I came across about which players are best at scoring runs after getting on base. I know the "luck" posters will dismiss this, but i thought it was interesting:

MANUFACTURING RUNS

Another important element of baserunning is how often a player comes around to score. The following players are the best at working their way home once they reach base (min. 150 ABs):

1 Jay Payton OAK 52.6%; 0-for-0 SB (previous rank: 7th, 51.0%)
2 Jason Repko LAD 50.7%; 4-for-4 SB (nr)
3 Alfonso Soriano TEX 50.3%; 18-for-20 SB (3rd, 53.3%)
4 Bobby Crosby OAK 50.0%; 0-for-0 SB (nr)
5 Jay Gibbons BAL 50.0%; 0-for-0 SB (11th, 48.9%)
6 Ivan Rodriguez DET 49.2%; 6-for-9 SB (nr)
7 Larry Walker STL 48.6%; 1-for-2 SB (12th, 48.6%)
8 David Dellucci TEX 48.4%; 4-for-6 SB (15th, 47.3%)
9 Miguel Olivo SD 47.6%; 2-for-4 SB (nr)
10 Chone Figgins LAA 47.2%; 40-for-51 SB (14th, 47.4%)
11 Jeff DaVanon LAA 47.0%; 11-for-17 SB (nr)
12 Milton Bradley LAD 46.9%; 5-for-6 SB (8th, 50.0%)
13 Johnny Damon BOS 46.9%; 13-for-14 SB (nr)
14 Manny Ramirez BOS 46.9%; 1-for-1 SB (nr)
15 Jimmy Rollins PHI 46.9%; 26-for-31 SB (nr)

Falling off the list: Pete Orr, David Newhan, Eric Hinske, Eli Marrero, Damion Easley, Frank Thomas, Alex Sanchez, Ty Wigginton, Sal Fasano

Since joining the A's, Payton has a .532 slugging percentage, which would qualify as the second-highest of his career. The only time he slugged better was in 2002 when he spent 170 at-bats with the Rockies, slugging .606. In fact, Payton's Isolated Power (SLG – AVG) with Oakland is .266, the same as his batting average. I remain impressed with Gibbons, who has spent the bulk of his at-bats in the No. 7 spot in the Baltimore lineup – not a spot that tends to generate a lot of Runs Scored.

3. I wish the Dodgers would move Russell Martin back to 3rd base. He started his career there.

Keep Joel Guzman at SS.

Move Adam LaRoche to 2nd (another Kent).

I think Martin certainly could edge ahead of Navarro, but what of it? Catchers don't play 162 games; even halfway decent catchers are also choice trade targets. Give me two good catchers instead of one any day.

As for Loney, he is having his best season since his 2002 breakout. His OBP is .360, and he has 35 extra-base hits in something of a tough pitching league. He still has a chance to be a contributor.

5 - Thanks for the list, but I'm really not sure what it's measuring. It's not measuring baserunning - the presence of Manny Ramirez seems to assure that. It's not really measuring ability to manufacture runs - the presence of Jason Repko seems to assure that. So what is it?

5 Hmmm...sounds like the inverse of the RBI. Thus, it would appear that the ability to score would also depend heavily on who's batting after you get on. Not to say that baserunning ability does not factor into it. I'm sure if Jason Giambi had Vlad Guerrero hitting after him, he still would not crack the top 10 in runs scored. But still, it looks like one of those stats that only have value at the extremes.

8-Im not good at disemenating what stats like this actually mean, but obv batting order position and team seems like it is very important here. Repko at #2 just seemed odd to me...maybe a way to measure scrappyness.

I'm glad Buntermaker has limited Repko's PA's.

His hitting: .294/.377/.226 63k's/13bb's in 215 at bats.

Off topic, but has Werth looked better the last few days? He's hitting better and he said he's strong enough to start using the bat he used to use, right? Maybe we're finally seeing the outfielder we thought we'd have coming into the season.

maybe the prowess of the team can be parlayed into their manager following the players up to the majors, much as Tommy Lasorda did in his day...

12 - a few more days of this from Werth, and we can get something really good via trade...

I saw that Greg Miller handled the end of the Jax game again for 1.1 innings. I realize he is still recovering from injuries, but does anybody think he may also be in the bullpen for a september callup to be our lefty out of the bullpen that we desperately need right now in LA?

11 - but Repko's plate appearances didn't start being limited until he started to hit better...

12 - I was tempted to write a Werth post today - not just because of Sunday and Tuesday's heroics. He is OPSing .809 since the All-Star break, with a .375 OBP. But it's only about 65 plate appearances, so I'm going to hold my breath a little.

5
The bulk of the list are guys on high-scoring teams where there is a big RBI guy. It would be helpful to know the numerators in the equation too.

I suppose that when Miguel Olivo or Jason Repko reaches base, it's a real special thing!

In Repko's case, the list is probably demonstrating how infrequently he gets on base, and to a lesser degree, the fact that he's had a fairly large number of ABs ahead of Jeff Kent, who leads the league in BA with RISP (a banned stat on this site, I know). I'd like to know what's the scoring percentage for the lowest ranked players on this list and whether they tend toward slow and brainless (Phillips) or whether they get caught stealing a whole bunch (Pierre).

17 - That's good to know. If he keeps this up, we may be better off looking for an impact 3B bat than an impact OF bat. Though I don't recall any 3B free agents...

20 - I forgot to mention, I'm referring to the off-season, though the free agents may have given that away.

Does the list account for pinch-running?

I, for one, don't understand what, if anything, the list in 5 shows.

If the player has a high OBP and bats ahead of a big run producer, all that means to me is that the manager put them in the right order when making out the lineup card.

Unless you are talking a Wills or Henderson or Brock, I am not a big fan of the stolen base. I generally see more down than upside.

Does anyone know why Atlanta is such a crappy sports town? The Hawks never draw anyone. Last nite, the Braves only drew 24,000 fans. Thats it. Thats atrocious for a 1st place team playing the Dodgers.

I remember in the mid 1990's the Braves started doing the tomahawk chop thing and they drew plenty. Now not so much.

25 - they all came to see Jane Fonda back then

25 I think the prevailing theory on the Braves, at least, is that they've reached the point where contending for regular season titles is not exciting anymore, and bigger goal seems unobtainable. It was certainly amusing when they played the Cubs in the 03 playoffs, and packed the place with Cub fans.

And it's hot there.

And, would you go see the Hawks?

28. Funny. I was thinking "and its hot there" and then hit refresh to see your post.

I disagree with #24. Then again, I still have the Ryan Freel incident fresh in my mind. I think having the ability to steal bases puts added pressure on the pitcher and the entire infield. It sets up hit and runs as well as while they are batting it creates errors along the IF where they rush their throws. I wish we had more Ryan Freel type players with 10HR power and 40SB potential on our team. Maybe this is why I like Repko? Who knows?

29 - sure...is Dominique Wilkins still playing?

2 - Don't think I was seriously saying that J-ville could compete at the ML level. It might be the most loaded minor league team, at least in the last dozen years or so (from what I've heard), but the ML-quality pitching would be enough to bring them to their knees just as the offensive line play of even the worst NFL team would dominate the best college team.

The 11-game winning streak juxtaposed against the struggles of the NL West just made me bring it up.

Just needed to get that out there, lest people think I'm an idiot :-)

31 - doesn't hurt that he has Griffey, Dunn, Kearns, etc batting behind him...when he is healthy that is...

33 - your comments in 2 wouldn't influence our thinking about you...

Sorry to be off topic but did anyone else see all the Angels fans Booing Frankie? I dont remember if Yhency got boo'd that bad but I do remember that Alverez didnt get boo'd when he blew the 11 inning game against Stlouis. And coming from a first place teams fan base thats kinda shallow.

35 - Being a Niner fan, and a SC hater, I've had to defend that position several times over the last 2 years. The level of play in any professional league is leaps and bounds better than any other competition out there.

Ryan Freel doesn't appear in the list referenced in 5. Freel went on the DL after knee surgery also.

The chart is from Rotoworld and is simply R/(H+BB+HBP)

So it doesn't take into account guys who reach first on fielders choices or errors.

And Repko gets credit for a run scored as a pinch runner without having to bat as he did last night.

37. I'm a Miami Hurricanes fan and I truely believe that 3 years ago when we had something like 11-15 1st round picks on our team, we could have beaten the worst NFL team.

I think the big thing that the list on #5 shows is that attempting a lot of stolen bases only leads to scoring when you are extremely good at it or you have Vlad batting behind you.

As for Atlanta being such a crappy sports town, the natives tend to follow college football more, the Hawks and Falcons haven't been around long enough to have built a tradition, especially with their terrible track records, plus it's just a crappy town in general, it's in the group with Charlotte, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, and Nashville of the worst cities with professional sports teams.

40 - I'd suggest on your next vacation, you stay away from the South, what with all the friends you just made down there.

39
It would be even less likely for a college football team to beat an NFL team. NFL guys are uniformly bigger and faster than a college team.

And the NFL teams would throw defenses up against a college quarterback that would be hard to work against.

In baseball, a minor league team could beat a major league team if it got a great pitching performance. But in football, you need to have everybody working together. And it's fairly rare that a quarterback comes right from college and steps into an NFL team and becomes a star. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but it's rare for that position unlike running backs.

I've always been a huge USC fan. OJ Simpson was one of my heros in the late 60s. That is as good a reason as any to not get attached to sports stars.

40. Excellent point about stolen bases having minimal impact. Scott Podsednik is nowhere to be found on that list. I think that stands out in the whole "This guy is fast so he's more likely to score runs. So I'd rather have a fast baserunner with a lower OBP, than vice versa..." debate.

36 - The way Dodger fans have booed Nomo and others last year (when in first place) and this year, I wouldn't have us throwing stones.

Will Carroll predicted early on that mechanics would give K-Rod arm trouble as the season progressed - I'm suspecting that he was right.

40
The people of Dallas-Fort Worth certainly like their football. And they like the Mavericks now because they have an owner who is popular and promotes the team.

Even the Dallas Stars drew pretty well, helped out by the fact that they did win a Stanley Cup. Even though they played one of the dullest styles of hockey imaginable.

The Rangers would likely do better at the box office if they were, you know, good.

Does any one remember any of the choicer lines that Jim Murray used to earn his Chamber of Commerce awards from cities around the country? Apart from the famous "It was Kentucky's turn to use the cement mixer?"

42 - It's the line play that would seperate the men from the boys (literally) in football.

True, in baseball, Billingsley could go out and throw a 3-hit shutout against Colorado, but to be able to win even semi-consistently would be quite a feat for a minor-league team.

41. Oh, I have many friends in the South and do sometimes vacation there, just on their cities that are really nothing more than overgrown towns.

46. Oh, I'm not saying that Dallas is a bad sports town, just a bad town that happens to have professional teams. And I say this having lived in Texas for 4 years.

49

Unlike the overgrown towns of Southern California.

49- besides, it's not like they can read.

25 - regarding Atlanta, it's also one of two major American cities that has seen a decline in population over the past several years. That may have an effect on sports attendance. The Braves didn't even sell out their playoff games last year, as I understand it.

The other shrinking city is Detroit.

Ken Rosenthal has this to say about the Dodgers' management situation, heading into the offseason:

"Dodgers. It's doubtful G.M. Paul DePodesta ever will get comfortable with Jim Tracy. Angels pitching coach Bud Black and A's bullpen coach Bob Geren are alternatives. Tracy, a native of Hamilton, Ohio, could fit in with the Reds."

51

I live in and work for an overgrown town in Southern Cal. I think the whole IE is kinda like that (with a few exceptions).

What Timmermann said: 8 & 42.

Miguel Olivo is an atrocious hitter, now with his third team in less than one year. Because of this, Olivo spent most of the year hitting 8th or 9th, in front of a fellow named Ichiro. When you get on base in front of him, even if you're hitting .180, there's a decent chance you can score, because this Ichiro's known for making contact, somewhat. Manny Ramirez isn't known much for his prowess on the basepaths, but he does has a big strapping fellow named Ortiz hitting behind him. "Working" one's way around to home after getting on base doesn't seem to require as much work by the guy on base as it does of the guy with the lumber.

Suspect Atlanta fans are tired of pro sports, because they've had several top-tier teams over the years who haven't done very well at winning The Big One - Hawks, Falcons, Braves, etc. Seattle fans for some reason have yet to catch this disease despite the exact same symptoms. Plus, as Futurama once pointed out, there are so many other things to see and do in Atlanta: the Coca-Cola plant, CNN headquarters, the airport...

If the Dodgers win tonight and the DBacks, AZ's lead over the Dodgers shrinks to .0007

What a race!

25 - I'm from just north of Atlanta and will be going to Thursday's game.

We can make a thousand excuses: it's hot, parking is horrible, public trans is dangerous, tickets are priced too high, the stadium isn't in the best part of town, etc.

But the real reason IMO is what was stated here earlier: we're spoiled. We know the Braves will win 90-100 games so we wait until the post season. Even then most skip the division series.

Plus the Braves have no real rival. It's not like Dodgers/Giants, Dodgers/Padres, Yankees/Red Sox, etc. The Braves have spanked everyone for so long no one seems formidable.

And just a word on the Hawks and Thrashers. Check their record for the last several seasons. Why go? :)

We do pack out The Dome for the Falcons. Maybe the Braves just need to get that streak snapped a few times to get people jazzed up again.

yes! today is officially "suns thoughts"
!!!!!

54 - hasn't Tracy, um, outlived his warranty? I thought he was brought up from Vegas (Albuquerque?) mostly because he was respected by the crop of prospects that were going to take over the team - you know, Lo Duca, Thurston, Jackson, Hanrahan, Chen, Crosby...without this rationale, who else would seriously consider Tracy as a major league manager, and why? His stellar in-game managing? His personal skills? His flair for fashion?

59 - Suns Thoughts indeed. I always got confused with "Suns Sentiments." Seemed a bit alliteration happy. It's not like Jon's site is called, oh I don't know, "Dodger Determinations" or something.

Jacksonville would stink if they were in the majors, but to say they'd be lucky to win 30 games is a pretty extreme overstatement, IMO.

They've got the following players who are arguably major league replacement level, as of right now:
Martin
Guzman
LaRoche
Billingsley
Kuo
Miller
Jackson

In addition to Young, Broxton, and Thompson who are no longer with the team.

That's more major league caliber players than, say, the 1962 Mets or 1915 A's had.

53 I was very surprised by your statement that Atlanta is shrinking, so I looked it up. The City of Atlanta from 2000-2004 grew by about 2,000 people, a negligible number. Sure enough, Fulton County had fewer actual living people in 2004 than in 2000, although the difference is still only a couple thousand people. Very surprising in any case, but there are still plenty enough people to go to ballgames.

3. I wish the Dodgers would move Russell Martin back to 3rd base. He started his career there.

sorry, not a fan of that idea. Even though martin gets on base better, laroche profiles as a better overall 3rd basemen with his 40 homerun potential. Besides, we have plenty of depth at 2b with aybar, young, denker, abreu and maybe even dewitt.

51. They're not my favorite either, but many at least have a bit of Spanish character to them and more extensive areas for walking than other sunbelt cities. (Which is also why San Antonio is not on the list).

58. They only sporadically pack the dome and now primarily because the Falcons have the biggest attraction in the league in Vick. As for the Hawks and Thrashers it's not like the Omni was packed when Wilkins was leading the Hawks to the playoffs most years either and hockey just should not be in Southern cities, it's just a stupid idea.

60 - Tracy is still considered to be a very well-respected manager. If he were to leave LA, I'm sure the story would be that he is off to a place where his skills are more appreciated.

"54 - hasn't Tracy, um, outlived his warranty? I thought he was brought up from Vegas (Albuquerque?) mostly because he was respected by the crop of prospects that were going to take over the team - you know, Lo Duca, Thurston, Jackson, Hanrahan, Chen, Crosby..."
--------------

Tracy has never worked at Las Vegas or Albuquerque in any capacity.

I saw that Greg Miller handled the end of the Jax game again for 1.1 innings. I realize he is still recovering from injuries, but does anybody think he may also be in the bullpen for a september callup to be our lefty out of the bullpen that we desperately need right now in LA?

no way, the dodgers are going to take it super slow with miller. they know the talent they have in this kid and they are not going to ruin him for a futile attempt at a title run. miller is a long term investment. i dont think i will be ever to forgive the dodgers if they bring him up, and in pressure situations, he compensates by over throwing and damaging his shoulder/arm for good.

65 - I'm not there, so I defer to those that may know better, but I believe the Falcons sell out the Dome quickly and consistently nowadays.

62 - yes, but most of the 1915 A's are dead now, so that is not a fair comparison

Let me pile on and say I could not disagree more strongly with the idea of moving Martin to 3rd base. You've got a catcher with a .430 OBP who was also named the best defensive catcher in his league, and you want to move him? I can't think of a single possible benefit that could come from that.

The Tampa Bay Lightning aren't giving back their Stanley Cup win.

Since the Toronto Maple Leafs won their last Stanley Cup in 1967, there have been champions in cities like Dallas and Tampa and teams from Los Angeles, Anaheim, Miami, Raleigh, and Washington playing in the finals.

That really bothers Canadians.

Tracy was Davey Johnson's bench coach. I recall that when he was hired, the LA Times's line was that Malone and Daly picked him because he was such a nobody he'd do whatever they told him to.

"That really bothers Canadians."
-----

But I bet it doesn't bother Canadiens...

71 - then how about we platoon him at 1B with Choi

69. Yes, now that they have Vick, which is what I said. Before Vick, they didn't, it's off and on classic bandwagoning with the Falcons, when they're not good they're one of the few franchises that gets blackouts from a lack of fans at the game.

also concerning if the suns could hold their own in the majors- highly doubtful.

you have kids playing on the suns. 3b, ss, 2b and 1b are all 21 or younger. you have a 22 yr old catcher who has only been catching consistently for 2 years.

Although all these players are highly talented, it would be incredibly hard for them to do decently in the bigs as a collective group.

thats why i dont adovocate bringing up preimum prospects in bulk. you have to blend them in the big league club to make it easier on them on the transisition phase.

72. I'm neither Canadian, nor a hockey fan, and it bothers me. It's just too many stupid teams in stupid cities.

74
The Canadiens haven't been to the finals since 1993 and haven't gone far in the playoffs since then.

63 - My statement in 53 would have more value if I could remember the timeframe. It might be a 10-year population comparison, or even 25. I jsut thought is was worth mentioning.

lets talk about the vero beach dodgers, if you want to talk about dominance, look at thier record, they are in first place with a 31-19 record in the second half, they already won the first half. complete dominance. Doing all of that, with AA promotions of core people (laroche, kuo, orenduff, abreu, ruggiano)

but they just keep chugging away. its really unbelievable because the talent at jacksonville next year might be even greater than this year.

77 - Who would you recommend bringing up soonest and when?

Who would you recommend bringing up soonest and when?

maybe kuo, but i am still a little scared his arm might not hold up. everyone else, i would like to leave for a little bit more seasoning.

next year though, if the triumvirate of guzman, laroche and loney start mashing at vegas the way conor jackson and carlos quentin were mashing for tucson this year, then i would think about calling them up midway.

i would like to have prospects force my hand to truly show they are ready to be moved up (ie- like how laroche was the albert pujols of the fsl)

#77: Also, three of the Suns best hitters (Meadows, Weber, and Donovan) are not prospects, but are likely better than major league replacement level. I'd say the Suns could give the Royals a run for their (lack of) money.

"thats why i dont adovocate bringing up preimum prospects in bulk. you have to blend them in the big league club to make it easier on them on the transisition phase."
------------

While I agree with this philosophy, this year's Braves are Exhibit A in the case against it.

next years AA jax team might not have the big time positional stars like this years of guzman, laroche and martin, but they will have better depth next year and the pitching will probably be better (hard to imagine about the pitching huh?)

the rotation could probably be this if everything goes to plan:
lhp chuck tiffany 21 yrs
rhp luke hochevar 22 yrs
lhp greg miller 21 yrs
rhp julio pimentel 20 yrs
lhp mike megrew 22 yrs

Geez, Nate - I give you Jacksonville Day and you're already moving on to Vero Beach?

Here's a question for you. With Las Vegas almost talent-free, many Suns figure to be there next year. Will the pitchers be ready to tolerate the environment?

#81: I understand it was hyperbole, but there's really very little chance that the talent at Jacksonville could be greater next year assuming a reasonable number of promotions. So, for position players, you have Loney > Dunlap, Young > Abreu (Denker will likely start at Vero), Guzman > Hu, LaRoche > Kemp, Ruggiano > Raglani. And pitching is even more one-sided with Billingsley, Miller, Jackson, and Orenduff heading up the Suns rotation.

While I agree with this philosophy, this year's Braves are Exhibit A in the case against it.

true, but the braves have built a stable core of players- giles, furcal, even laroche, and the two jones brothers who are putting up allstar/mvp numbers.

but you are right, the braves player development is amazing. if you can remember, depo said that the team he most admires the most is the braves because of thier long standing dominance and player development. So i think depos long term vision for the dodgers will look a lot like the braves.

#85: My philosophy is that most teams bring up prospects when they aren't yet ready to meaningfully contribute. Thus, you have a player who is contributing marginally better than replacement level for 1 - 2 years. If you wait until a prospect is more mature (i.e. close to league average performance), it would be easier to bring up a group of prospects together and maintain a winning record (e.g., Athletics and Braves).

Here's a question for you. With Las Vegas almost talent-free, many Suns figure to be there next year. Will the pitchers be ready to tolerate the environment?

i think they will have a hard time adjusting at first, but could most likely get the hang of it.

remmeber though, starting pitchers with eras in the high 4's in vegas is really really good. anything below 4.5 for an extended period of time, you know they are ready for the bigs.

#83: I'd rather the Dodgers take it easy with Kuo for the same reasons as Miller. His stuff is electric and if they can slowly build up his arm strength, he could be a huge long term impact.

The question of Jacksonville's competitiveness in the majors is very interesting, and since BP has minor league trasnlations i think we could try and take a stab at it, or at least their starting lineup. This would be a lot easier if they posted the minor league traslations daily like they did last year, but they show three examples of of hitters that had significant ab's in jacksonvill from last year: Willy Aybar, Joel Guzman, and James Loney. Here they are:
actual majors translations
Aybar 276/346/425 255/319/400 248eqa
Guzman280/325/522 257/299/475 260eqa
Loney 238/314/327 222/292/308 216eqa
so using these examples, we should break down their components. For example aybar's iso slg was .149, his trans. iso slg was .145, so the multiplier for his iso slg is .973 :
act./trans. aybar guzman loney
ave. .924 .917 .933
iso obp. .914 .933 .921
iso slg. .973 .901 .966
so the southern league really isnt that far off from the majors, less than 10% i'd say. For ave, since loney's was so low, and the translations seem to be forgiving to low numbers, lets go with a .920 multiplier batting average. For iso obp, guzmans the low man, and since aybar has close to ave numbers, ill use a .915 multiplier for iso obp. For iso slg, guzmans is the outlier, i think this has to do with the fact that he's much more of a power hitter, wheras aybar and loney are more singles and doubles, so lets give ourselves two multipliers: .900 for power hitters and .970 for guys with doubles/singles power. Now lets apply these translations to a typical jacksonville line-up.

translated(i classified young,laroche,guzman
meadows, and weber as power hitters, so they got .900 iso slug multiplier, everyone else got .970)
ave/obp/slg OPS KC OPS
CF Donovan: .258/.332/.391 723 783
C Martin: .286/.394/.387 781 631
RF Weber: .288/.345/.454 799 770
LF Meadows: .260/.394/.464 858 701
SS Guzman: .263/.321/.448 769 670
3B LaRoche: .241/.328/.427 775 654
2B Young: .272/.318/.455 773 766
1B Loney: .260/.330/.380 710 863
ave 773.5 729.8
the KC OPS is the royals starter at the same position as the Jax starter in the same column. So the 783ops next to donovans 723ops is david dejesus, john buck's is next martin's, ect. The KC lineup is CF Dejesus, C John Buck, RF emil brown, LF terrance long, SS Angel Berroa, 3B Mark Teahan, 2B Tony Graffinino (now with BOS), and for 1B i let them have Mike Sweeney. The KC lineup's OPS is 79.8 (ouch) Jax's is 773.5.

Now obviously you may not think much of BP's minor league translations, and/or you may think my math is flawed, which is fair. But for the arguments sake, the best measure i could find, translated as best i could, showed that the Jacksonville lineup is easily better than the royals. I could do an analysis of the pitching staff if you guys want.

And pitching is even more one-sided with Billingsley, Miller, Jackson, and Orenduff heading up the Suns rotation.

its hard to imagine, but seriously, the jax suns next year have a great chance at having better pitching and more depth too.

miller will probably stay back in AA for next year to lead the suns. Tiffany will join him and i expect him to be fully healthy next year and really dominant. another pitcher who could breakout anytime is julio pimentel. he is only 19 right now and has been young for every league hes been in, so it wouldnt suprise me one bit if the light just all of a sudden turn on for him next year.

thats aweomse stuff sanchez. yea, if you can do one comparing the pitching, that would be great.

It will soon be time to see if the Curse of Steve holds. Oakland will be starting at 12:35 against Baltimore.

The A's are winless since Steve's defection.

What were Broxton's minor league translations?

50 Penarol1916, Finally someone who lived in Texas but does not claim Texas as the greatest place on earth. Every person I have met from Texas, whether they were born there or went to school there, has this arrogance about them that Texas is just better and they are doing the rest of the Country a favor by being part of the Union. I know people who were born and lived thier whole lives in Ca. but went to college for about 20 minutes in Texas and claim to be Taxans with the accent and ya all. I never understood this. Other than some very good looking women and BBQ, I'm not sure what Texas has to offer.

I just realized, my posts are pretty "glass half empty" these days. Must need some fiber.

#86: Ok. The pitching would be a lot closer than I originally thought, assuming Miller goes back to AA (he may not after AFL) and Hochevar signs and quickly moves up to AA (he'll likely begin the year in A+). Still, I'd take this year's pitching staff.

Billingsley better than Tiffany
Jackson worse than Hochevar
Miller equal to Miller
Orenduff better than Pimentel
Hanrahan worse than Megrew
Kuo better than Alexander
Alvarez equal to Alvarez
Perez equal to Perez
Rodriguez equal to Rodriguez
Gonzalez equivalent to Merricks

WoW. Thats pretty amazing confusing stuff.

98 - Don't mess with Texas.

Just kidding. My teacher used to (jokingly) say that a lot.

Dear Steve,

When you decide to leave the A's, the Padres are looking for a few more fans. Please make your move by September.

Thanks!

That's right, you're not from Texas
That's right, you're not from Texas
That's right, you're not from Texas
But Texas wants you anyway

Steve Phillips on ESPN is saying that the Giants are blocking a lot of waiver deals because they think they are going to make a run at the division title in September when Bonds returns.

Still, seven games out with three teams ahead of you makes you a longshot.

104 - What do you mean blocking waiver deals? (I'm not sure how waivers work exactly)

105 - me too. I don't really understand how the whole waivers system works with claims and putting people through, etc... if somebody could take the time to explain, i'm sure many of us would greatly appreciate it. thanks.

104 - unless those 3 teams are this years' Padres, D'backs and Dodgers

Why to move Russ Martin to 3rd:

#1. Like Jon Weisman said, catchers dont play everygame. When you have a bat as good as Martin's, you want it in the lineup everygame. Thats why good hitting catchers often get moved to other positions.

#2. Dionner Navarro: We know Navarro isnt moving to any position. He's been a catcher his whole life.

#3. LaRoche/Martin/Navarro are all close to the major leagues. Why not position them to where they all can play in the same game?

The argument about Martin not having enough power to play 3rd doesnt wash because we'd make up for it by putting big time power at 2nd with LaRoche.

Ideally I think we'd be best off with Martin/Navarro both playing in the same lineup. There's only 1 way to do that.

Ideally I think we'd be best off with Martin/Navarro both playing in the same lineup. There's only 1 way to do that.

Two, if you count the possibility of the Dodgers moving to the American League.

good hitting catchers are often moved because they dont know how to catch.

martins defense has been rated as potential GG caliber. you dont move that to 3b.

if it comes to it, you trade one of the two to fill another position of need.

When a player goes on waivers (and nearly everybody gets put on waivers in August), each team gets a chance to put a claim in on the player.

They go in inverse order of record per league.

So any NL player that gets put on waiver first gets a chance to be claimed by Colorado, then Pittsburgh, and then San Francisco (and so on until you get to St. Louis.)

If the team putting the player on waivers wants to make a deal with the team putting the claim in, then they work something out.

But most of the time, the teams revoke the waivers and keep the players.

But if the Giants are putting in claims for players, even if they rarely have any intention of actually acquiring the player, they are preventing the Dodgers, DBacks, and Padres from having a chance of acquiring the player.

The only thing you have to worry about is that you might get stuck with a player you don't want, like the Padres did with Randy Myers.

also, you are asking for two players to change positions.

did you ever hear about martin as a 3b prospect? maybe he changed because he just wasnt very good there.

what if laroche cant make the change to 2b?

why mess with things that are currently working?

also, why would you move the superior catcher to another position?

this is jim tracy logic.

Is Martin's defense really that more superior to Navarro's? If it isnt, then I dont see the downgrade.

I'd rather make these changes now in the minor league level, and AFL, etc... Than wait till these guys get to the majors and then move him.

IF, the plan is to build around Martin, Navarro, LaRoche, Guzman, --- we need to get these guys in the positions they are going to play and commit to it.

Is Martin's defense really that more superior to Navarro's? If it isnt, then I dont see the downgrade.

every prospect publication and scout that i respect have said it is.

I tend to agree with Nate. The worst that can happen is we use one to get something else we need. Martin's value goes down greatly if he becomes a 3B.

"#83: I'd rather the Dodgers take it easy with Kuo for the same reasons as Miller. His stuff is electric and if they can slowly build up his arm strength, he could be a huge long term impact."
--------

Agreed. However, is there really a meaningful difference between taking it easy at the AA level and taking it easy at the major league level?

107
As if the Giants are markedly better than either the Padres, DBacks or Dodgers.

I can't see how Bonds returning would make the Giants all that much better. How many games could he play? He couldn't play every game down the stretch. He likely couldn't play the whole game.

And as good as he is, he still has missed several months of action. I don't see him playing in September and hitting 15 home runs and/or drawing 50 walks.

113. I still dont see Martin as being the superior catcher to Navarro no matter what the scouts say. Navarro is younger and is already playing in the major leagues. As good as Martin's plate discipline is, do you honestly think it will be BETTER than Navarro's?

Navarro's was excellent at Vegas, and its been just as good at the big league level.

Navarro is a year younger and playing in the bigs. Martin is at AA.

I think Navarro is the superior catcher, while Martin has the ability to play more than one position. Since i like both players, I'd rather see Martin moved to 3rd where we are weak at.

111 - Thanks Bob. That was very informative.

BTW, what happened to Randy Myers? I remember hearing about it, but I don't know the details.

if martin moves to 3b, he will most likely be a kevin youkilis but with less power (even now, youkilis doenst have much power).

also, kevin goldstein in a BA chat compared laroches offensive cieling to scott rolen.

98 Well, you have to understand, my dad was working in the economics department at Texas A&M with future Senator Phil Gramm, meeting someone like that at faculty family functions is bound to turn you off of a place.

In 1998 the Blue Jays put Myers on waivers to see if anybody wanted him.

Kevin Towers thought that the Braves wanted a lefty reliever and the Padres got a chance to claim Myers before the Braves. So he put in a claim. Towers assumed that the Blue Jays would just pull back Myers and neither the Padres nor the Braves would get him.

But Toronto GM Gord Ash figured that he saw an easy way to get out from under Myers' contract. So he let the Padres have Myers for essentially nothing (they did trade a minor leaguer). The Padres had to assume all of Myers contract.

Myers had a 6.28 ERA in 15 games for San Diego and never pitched in the majors again. But I think the Padres had to pay him for another year or two.

"#1. Like Jon Weisman said, catchers dont play everygame. When you have a bat as good as Martin's, you want it in the lineup everygame. Thats why good hitting catchers often get moved to other positions."
----------

It remains to be seen, however, whether Martin's bat will be good enough to hold its own at other positions. At catcher, we already know it is.

Martin's OBP is tremendous, but his SLG stinks. He may develop more power, he may not. If he doesn't, he will likely be neither a good enough hitter nor a good enough fielder to play 3B regularly in the major leagues.

Right now I'm expecting something from Martin along the lines of Mike Scioscia's career. Good solid OBP, no real power, good defense. Scioscia was an excellent major league catcher, but would not have been a good enough hitter to contribute meaningfully at third base.

And, like Jon said, catchers don't play every game. Which is why you might want two solid ones to share the catching duties, so you don't end up playing people like Paul Bako and David Ross.

I still dont see Martin as being the superior catcher to Navarro no matter what the scouts say. Navarro is younger and is already playing in the major leagues. As good as Martin's plate discipline is, do you honestly think it will be BETTER than Navarro's?

have you even seen martin play? how can you make all these assumptions without seeing them play? and if you havent seen him play, you should trust the scouting reports.

also, navarro was called up out of necessity to put an end to the phillips reign behind the plate. it wasnt like he was lighting up AAA. i mean look at his stats, he couldnt even slug 450 in the offensive inflated PCL. his BA was poor of .266. the only strong suit was excellent k:bb ratio and walk rate.

I think Navarro is the superior catcher, while Martin has the ability to play more than one position. Since i like both players, I'd rather see Martin moved to 3rd where we are weak at.

again, i dont know how you can say this even if you just look at their stat line without seeing martin play.

124 - Eric, did you know catchers don't play every game?

I should add that John Schuerholz said after Myers was claimed by San Diego that he had no intention of claiming Myers either.

Whether or not he said that to rub it in is unknown.

Regardless, the Padres won the NLCS that year DESPITE Myers. They just needed Kevin Brown and Sterling Hitchock.

I'd rather see Martin moved to 3rd where we are weak at.

also, we are not weak at 3b. 3b is one of the strongest positions in our system.
laroche
guzman
dewitt
russ mitchell
josh bell

"50 Penarol1916, Finally someone who lived in Texas but does not claim Texas as the greatest place on earth. Every person I have met from Texas, whether they were born there or went to school there, has this arrogance about them that Texas is just better and they are doing the rest of the Country a favor by being part of the Union."
----------------

Hmm... I was born and raised in Texas and have spent the rest of my life denigrating the state at every opportunity. (Including on this site.) It's a backward state, to put it mildly. I love the border region and Austin, but the rest of the state could sink into the Gulf of Mexico for all I care. Especially Houston.

Nate, earlier today, I was thinking of the similarity of the nicknames of Youkilis and Martin.
Youkilis: Greek God Of Walks
Martin: Canadian Mountee Of Walks... And Heart

That isn't a coincidence is it?

If the catcher doesn't play every game, you will have a lot of passed balls.

121. I like Youkilis and I'd love to have another Jeff Kent caliber power hitting 2nd basemen. Denker might fit that mold, but LaRoche is a lot closer if he were moved over there.

2007 Dodgers: Since this lineup costs virtually nothing, and would produce quite a bit.. Imagine how much money we could use to get a top notch pitching staff.

3rd- Martin
CF- Bradley
RF- Drew
1b- Choi
LF- Giles
2b- LaRoche
SS- Guzman
C- Navarro
Pitcher

Russ Martin leadoff hitter... Me likey!

131 - hence, Bob Uecker

fanerman, nope its not. i was thinking along the lines of youkilis cause both walk a ton but dont slug that much at all.

oldbear, stop with this moving martin to 3b, please. you are making my head hurt.

i might have to claim bananas in my ears soon.

Yhency's season:

April 6 - 1/3 ip, 2 er
April 7 to May 14 - 13 1/3 ip, 1 er, 11-12 sv
May 15-20 - 2 1/3 ip, 6 er
May 21 - June 17 - 11 1/3 ip, 2 er, 0-1 sv
June 18 - 2/3 ip, 4 er
June 19 - July 2 - 4 ip, 1 er, 4-4 sv
July 3 - July 19 - 4 1/3 ip, 9 er
July 20 - Aug 6 - 8 ip, 1 er, 5-5 sv
Aug 7 - ? - 2/3 ip, 7 er

Bad Times - 30.24 era, 28 days
Good Times - 1.23 era, 97 days

When he's good, he's very good and when he's bad, he's very bad. It's interesting to note that 12 save opportunities came before May 15 and only 13 since. Maybe Gagne would not have had a huge effect on this season's results. Any ideas on what to make of this? Is this Alejandro Pena who can relieve but not close?

then how about moving Martin to 1B

Nate,
What would you suggest we do with the Martin/Navarro question? Assuming both turn out as well as we expect?

"i might have to claim bananas in my ears soon."
---------

You should dress up like a banana instead and Vinny will probably coo at you during one of the broadcasts.

David Ortiz grounded into a 4-5-3 DP to end the game in Detroit.

136 - what that tells me is that Yhency is in over his head and could have used a little more minor league time to develop a greater repertoire of pitches

140 - If he just made an Olney... That's what he gets for not playing Smart Ball (TM).

"then how about moving Martin to 1B"
-----------

Then you're turning an offensive strength at catcher into an offensive liability at first base. Frankly, this makes about as much sense as releasing him.

121
Why not Aybar or Young at second instead of LaRoche, who goes to his natural position with Navarro/Martin at catcher?

What would you suggest we do with the Martin/Navarro question? Assuming both turn out as well as we expect?

i dont see why we cant keep both until they are expensive. then when they start to get expensive, pick one and trade the other.

its better to have two solid catchers that display almost the same attributes. they will be stronger in the games they are catching because they will have to catch less amount of games.

143 - they are releasing him?

The Curse of Steve?

It's 2-0 Baltimore over Oakland after 2.

143 - No, they're not releasing him, because that would be really dumb. About as dumb as moving him to first base.

Bob,
One more thing about waivers. So, if you make a claim on somebody on waivers (like the Padres did), it's up to the other team (who has the player) if they want to make a deal or not? If they want to give the player up, you will have to take him?

145. OBP is 3 times more important than SLG according to most. If Martin OBP's .385, you find a way to get him into the lineup everyday. Thats your leadoff hitter right there.

I've seen enough of good hitters (Antonio Perez) sitting on the bench because they have no position to play.

I'd hate to see that happen with Martin and Navarro.

149
The team putting in the claim can't pull it back. Just the team putting the players on waivers can pull the guy back.

So be careful what you wish for.

Martin's value at catcher is the same way that Jeff Kent is valuable at 2nd base. Kent would otherwise be a league average OFer or 1B, but his power makes him much more valuable as a 2nd baseman. The same is with Martin at C, combining a high OBP and BA with gold glove defense makes him almost irreplaceable at that position but below average at most others. I really don't see having 2 great young catchers as a problem, if it is, then it's a great problem to have, much better than the ross/maybe problem we had a year ago.

*ross/mayne

Off topic, but where can I find pictures of these guys? To this day I don't know what Guzman, LaRoche, Martin, Billingsley, etc look like. (Or Logan White for that matter...)

also, the one thing you are forgetting here is laroche. why move him to 2b where he might not be able to handle the position?

Lets try the pitching translations for the Jacksonvill pitching staff. This is a lot harder to do with any certainty. I just did a translation for eqERA, not PERA because i dont no what the league averages are for k/9, h/9, ect. And of course era is in some part luck-based, just look at chad billinglsey's line for this season, so these are much more rough than the hitting translations.
So here are the translations for the ones i could find:
Pitcher/yr AA era eqERA IP eqERA/era
CBills '04 2.98 4.31 42.3 1.446
Hanrahan '03 2.43 4.08 119.3 1.679
Jackson '03 3.70 5.22 148.3 1.411
Brazoban '04 2.65 3.99 51.0 1.506
ave 1.511
so lets use 1.511 as a multiplier. My rotation will be chad billingsley, john broxton, eric hull, edwin jackson, and justin orenduff. Ill have kuo as my closer, and luis gonzalez and beltran perez as setup men.
IP ERA eqERA KCERA
Billingsley 125.3 4.02 6.07 6.02 ZG
Broxton 91 3.36 5.08 6.44 JL
Hull 102 3.35 5.06 5.10 RH
Jackson 61 3.39 5.12 5.10 DC
Orenduff 46.3 4.08 6.16 5.80 DB average starter ERA:3.64 5.50 5.70

Kuo 22.3 1.21 1.82 2.72 AS
Gonzalez 51.3 1.93 2.92 4.05 AB
Perez 16.3 1.10 1.66 4.13 MM
ave. reliever ERA: 1.41 2.13 3.63

I listed the KC rotation's era next to Jacksonvilles translated or eqERA. The KC rotation is Zach Greinke, Jose Lima, Runelvys Hernandez, DJ Carrasco, and for the fifth starter i chose Denny Bautista beacuse they really havent had a consistent fifth guy, and his era is the best among the remaining starters. The back end of the bullpen for KC is Andy Sisco as closer, and Ambiorix Burgos and Mike MacDougal as setup guys.

Im not suprised that the AA guys eqERA's isnt impressive, the traslation process isnt kind to them because the southern league is a pitchers league and jacksonville has a pitchers park. And i used a 1.511 multiplier, i couldve been kinder and used something closer to 1.400. Despite these things, the starters era is better 5.50 to 5.70 to KC and the relievers are better 2.13 to 3.63. Now in KC's defense they do pitch in a pitchers park and i couldnt find their eqERA. But i think this and my analysis of the hitters shows that Jacksonvill could hold there own against the Royals, the translations show that the Suns are a better team. The Jacksonvill Suns are hardly a 30 win team. I would compare these translations to the Dodgers, but that might be scarry. So ill leave it at this, the Jacksonville Suns would probably be AMONG the worst MLB teams, and are probably better than KC and COL,TB, PIT, and yes maybe even the Giants.

98 - Im on kind of a Michener thing lately, currently reading `Texas', and LAT has it exactly right. I had forgotten that Texas was it's own Republic for about 20 years, and basically made it very tough for America to annex it, even though they were bankrupt and wanted to be annexed. Unlike other future states, all public land in Texas is owned by Texas, rather than the federal gov't. Gotta hand it to them Texians.

I imagine Eric Enders knows that the original name of his hometown was Bejar (later Bexar).

Another thing -- the moving-Martin-to-any-position-other-than-catcher theory assumes that Navarro will turn out to be a good everyday major league catcher. This may well be true, but it's far from a certainty. In fact, there's very little in Navarro's minor league record, other than one outstanding season two years ago, that indicates he will become a good major league hitter. I'd guess the odds are against it. If he does have a long career as a regular catcher, it will almost certainly be as a defense-first guy.

Yes, he looks great so far. But so did Chad Fonville, for a while.

the Jacksonville Suns would probably be AMONG the worst MLB teams, and are probably better than KC and COL,TB, PIT, and yes maybe even the giants.

And the giants aren't much worse than us...

FearingBlue, Hochevar is not better than Edwin Jackson. They are the same age, Hochevar has never faced competition even as good as the equivalent of low A, where Jackson dominated three years ago at age 18, and Hochevar's fastball is considerably slower than Jackson's. A better "feel" for pitching right now might be all that Hochevar has over Jackson, and that is not enough given the areas in which Jackson trumps Hochevar.

Also, Delwyn Young is not better than Abreu, keeping in mind the position they play. Young has more power and walks more, but Abreu is progressing through minor league levels at a younger age, is a better pure hitter, has better contact skills, and plays second base like a, well, like a second baseman for starters, but also a really good one.

As for comparing next year's Suns to this year's, keep in mind that a lot of the current Suns we like are Johnny Come Lately's who have not been helping the team all year: Jackson, Orenduff, LaRoche, Miller, Kuo. And I think that LaRoche could very well join Miller in beginning next year in Jacksonville. Ruggiano will also likely stay. Prospect-wise, next year's Jacksonville outfield of Kemp, Raglani, and Ruggiano (ages, 21, 23, and 24 next year, respectively) is a big contrast to this year's geriatric outfield of Weber (age 27), Meadows (27), and Donovan (26). Add to this the fact that the Suns, barring injury, should have 5 legitimate prospects in the starting rotation all year, I don't think it is at all out of line to say that next year's Suns will be better as whole than this year's.

faneran, heres a picture of billingsley
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:ldhbOGVC7UoJ:www.jaxsuns.com/press/04060553926.shtml+chad+billingsley+picture&hl=en&start=4

"I imagine Eric Enders knows that the original name of his hometown was Bejar (later Bexar)"
---------------------

Actually, it wasn't. I think you've got the wrong hometown in mind. San Antonio is a great place to visit, but I've never lived there. And besides, most of the silly people there think "Bexar" is pronounced "bear" instead of "be-HAR."

My hometown was known variously as Magoffinsville, Franklin, and Smeltertown before acquiring its current name of El Paso.

150. If you're sick and tired of seeing Antonio Perez sit, then why are you advocating that LaRoche move to his position?

in regards to the navarro/martin debate, why not have both at the major league level? The dodgers did this in the 70's with fergeson and yeager. Give them both 325ish plate appearances a year. That way your covered for a possible injury, you dont loose anything offensively when you send you back up catcher out there, and you help preserve these guys knee's for a couple year. Then once they start reaching arbitration-eligibility one shouldve proven himself clearly better than the other and you keep him.

159-"And the Giants aren't much worse than us."

And the Dodgers are a tweaked Jeff Kent hamstring away from not being much worse than the Rockies

heres a pictures of loney:
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050602&content_id=1072645&vkey=draft2005&fext=.jsp

162. Wow, I lived in Las Cruces for a while.

164 - Yes. It seems obvious, doesn't it?

Oops, that's right, you did say El Paso, not San Antonio.

Smeltertown? Wow, didn't know that.

Did find it interesting that Bejar and Bexar were pronounced the same, but Tejas and Texas are not. One of them things, I guess.

The mere mention of Las Cruces makes me pine for a plate of La Posta flautas.

Up here in NYS you wouldn't believe what passes for "Mexican food."

I would like to see Tyus Meadows be a part of the September call ups from the minors. The guy has put up as good of numbers as anybody in the minors for the Dodgers and he is 27 years old so there really isn't an issue as far as starting his clock.
vr, Xei

164- Ferguson got a lot of his at bats in 74-75 as a platoon rightfielder, not a likely scenario with Navarro/Martin.

170 Mexican food is pretty decent here in Chicago.

here is a picture of miller, altough this is when he was 19.
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/la/news/la_news.jsp?ymd=20040308&content_id=646184&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp

Up here in NYS you wouldn't believe what passes for "Mexican food."

At least in California, there's always the catering trucks :)

oldbear, you know i agree with you practicly all the time, but this time i have to disagree with you about moving martin to 3b, and i agree with natepurcell about martin being the better catcher.
if you look at martin and navarro's stats, martin is far more superior, but navarro will be a great back up catcher, how many teams have a great back up catcher, not many if any.
i think our future is martin catching with navarro as the back up and a switch hitting back up, laroche at 3b, guzman at ss, perez at 2b.
i personally think if guzman gets moved his value drasticly declines, i think guzman is a free swinger and the only position where a free swinger with power is valuable is ss.
guzman will never have an obp pushing 400 in the majors, he'll be sitting around 340-350 obp even with 30ish homers.

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/la/news/la_news.jsp?ymd=20040308&content_id=647232&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp

theres a picture with miller, jackson, franky g, loney and tiffany

1. I say we move Martin to player-manager. Then he can play any position he wants to.
2. Texas blows, but man, that BBQ is good.
3. The comments window on this site just went very wide and moved off the right side of my screen. Anyone else see that?

164. I'd hate to waste Russ Martin's .385 OBP by only giving him 325 at bats. To me, Martin's primary job is to lead off, and create runs. I dont care what position he plays. IF Martin's .433 OBP at AA translates into a .385 OBP at the MLB level...If it does.. Thats a leadoff hitter.

If so, I want Martin to get Izzy like PA's. 650-700 a year. He cant do that catching.

Jim, some of the best tacos in town are on the trucks. I read another site that often lists the best ones.

From about.com about the X in Spanish:

X varies in sound, depending on the origin of the word. It is often pronounced like the "x" in "example" or "exit," but it also may be pronounced like the s or the Spanish j. In words of Mayan origin it can even have the English "sh" sound. Examples: éxito, experiencia, México, Xela.

The discussion of Martin and Youkilis as guys who walk a lot but have little power occurred to me the other day watching Robles and Navarro hit. WHY do guys with little power walk so much, and can it last? If a guy is not a threat to do any more if he swings than single, why not just throw him strikes? Seems to me that unless he's a .380 hitter (Gwynn, Ichiro), the league should adjust and just throw strikes, reducing the walks, slightly increasing the BA, but not having much effect on ISO.

So here's my question. What players have had great careers based on high OBP with low SLG? Even if OBP is more important (which I believe), it seems that guys with no power ought to see their OBP sink toward their BA, because pitchers won't be afraid to throw them strikes. If you're Gwynn or Ichiro, great, but few are.

163. Even though I like AP hitting, LaRoche has a lot higher upside and is quite a bit younger.

178 - Yeah. Might be time for those who post long links to check out tinyurl.com. And singulary great (and free) utility.

Off the top of my head, John McGraw, Eddie Yost, Max Bishop, and Eddie Stanky all had good careers with high OBPs and little power.

178 - 3 - yes, mine too

179. Navarro's obp right now is .367, my argument is based on the fact that navarro and martin are very similar players: good defense, onbase machines, little power. Why not have both? If martin finds his power stroke, or one of them falls of the cliff offensively, then im all for giving the superior catcher 500+ PA.

181 - Thanks, Bob. Suggest we stat pronouncing Texas Teshas.

180 - Yes. Always helps to befriend the cooks, also.

If you're ever in Culver City, check out Tito's Tacos, on Washington Place (at the 405).

176. Thats a good point about not switching Guzman from SS.

I just think that Navarro is a good enough hitting catcher and fielding catcher to keep catching.

And Martin's such a good hitter that there arent many guys period that can OBP close to .380, let alone at 3rd base. I want Martin leading off.

*personally think if guzman gets moved his value drasticly declines, i think guzman is a free swinger and the only position where a free swinger with power is valuable is ss.
guzman will never have an obp pushing 400 in the majors, he'll be sitting around 340-350 obp even with 30ish homers.*

guzmans ISOd right now 63 at age 20.

you can resonably expect the plate discipline to get better as he matures as a baseball player and hitter. although he might not ever push 400 unless his average is around 320, he can be expected to have a ISOd of around 60-80 in his prime.

Picturefest:

LaRoche
http://tinyurl.com/baq8j

Billingsley
http://tinyurl.com/cp6vx

Russell Martin/Ray Liotta
http://tinyurl.com/7kk6l

Guzman
http://tinyurl.com/92xt2

Loney after smoking a nice doobie
http://tinyurl.com/8ro5a

Hochevar
http://tinyurl.com/dgx3a

Delwyn Young
http://tinyurl.com/anr3b

Cory Dunlap
http://tinyurl.com/9dypq

"Suggest we start pronouncing Texas Teshas."

Since binge drinking is very popular there, a lot of people already do.

Nate, Eric, thanks for all the pics!

188 yes, Tito's is the best

192 - Good one, Eric!

178. I personally prefer Kansas City BBQ.

Sorry Jim, I'm not a fan of Tito's. Those are more American-Mexican IMO. If you ever find yourself on the corner of Vermont and Santa Monica, check out El Gran Burrito. They are my current favorite. The al pastor tacos are amazing. And cheap!

CurseOfSteveWatch 2005:

3-0 Orioles, bases loaded with birds, nobody out in the fifth

#117: I believe that there is a difference between taking it easy in the minors and in the majors for two reasons.

1) Jim Tracy - If Kuo is pitching well, Tracy may decide to forego the 2 innings every 4 days plan in order to eek out a win.

2) Overthrowing - In major league situations, it seems like there would be more pressure to overthrow and thus risk injury.

I hope Steve isn't watch the O's-A's vowelfest today.

His head will implode.

It's 3-0 Orioles in the fifth with the bases loaded and nobody out and Oakland can't get any offense going against the immortal Eric DuBose.

4-0 Orioles now.

196. I love KC BBQ. And Carolina BBQ. I wasn't trying to say Texas BBQ was best, just really good.

196 -- mmm, Arthur Bryant's.

Can we talk about something else? This thread is making me hungry...

191 - Is LaRoche's hair really like that?

I'm switching over to the Royals-M's game to see if KC can pick up loss #19!

The Mariners have the bases loaded in the first with one out and old friend Beltre at the plate.

Granny get out the rye bread!

It's a salami for Beltre!

Yeah, Marty, I agree Tito's is Americanized, but I still love 'em.

Damn, NC BBQ? Spent a lot of time visiting there when I was young, and never tried any.

Still, I have Woody's on Slauson.

Wow, KC is bad right now.

203 -- Yep.

hey faneran, do you want to see laroche's myspace? lol

greg miller has one too.

I heard about Tito's for the first time yesterday. Funny how things like that happen. Not a big fan of El Gran Burrito, but maybe it deserves another try. In the same neighborhood, I really like Casa Diaz (Hollywood @Vermont). Good carnitas.

As for BBQ, I come down firmly on all sides. Texas, Memphis, Carolina. Sauce. Rub. I've yet to meet the bbq I don't like. Thought I'd throw in a word for California's own indigenous style. I'm on my to the Central Coast this weekend, and will be feasting on Santa Maria style tri-tip for sure. Its amazing, for those that haven't had the pleasure, and also available in Culver City.

206 - try Lupe's in Thousand Oaks

I don't think 207 was talking about the barbecue.

208 - Well, if we win the World Series we can send him to Queer Eye.

The Royals are going for just their 18th straight loss, not 19th.

212 - yes it was...it meant they are cooked

209 - Sure why not?

214 - oh, that is much easier to take

211 - Where is Lupe's? I work in Westlake Village.

188 El Nopal on National Blvd (intersection with Motor) had pretty good Mexican food back in the mid-1980s when I was working at Beverly Hills Country Club up the street. The three-block walk after lunch was helpful after the amount of food you got for sensible prices.

218 WLV, huh? Agoura here...

Lupe's is on TO Blvd near the Civic Arts Plaza

Man, BBQ, Mexican food, and baseball. What else is there?

Oh, yeah...women!

220 - Gotcha, I know where that is. Is it Mexican or BBQ?

221 - forget women...Dodger dogs with mustard and onions, now that's ecstacy....

220 - Mexican

Guelagetza in Koreatown for great Oaxican.
Babita in San Gabriel is, for my money, the best Mexican restaurant in L.A. They do a Chiles en Nogada that is to die for. It's basically a Relleno with a pomegranate sauce that is amazing.

Eric DuBose has blown the no-hitter with a single by Mark Ellis.

He did get out of the inning, though -- still 4-0 O's.

220 - for BBQ, there is the TO Meat Locker also on TO Blvd, closer to Westlake Village

#160: Jackson vs. Hochevar was a tough call for me. I originally had them as equivalent, which is probably more accurate. Jackson has better raw stuff and has age on his side, but there's something going on with him that's hard to explain. Even his Jacksonville statistics are not all that impressive (K-rate and BB-rate). With our system, I'd rather have Jackson (higher risk / upside), but I think most other teams would rather have a Hochevar (lower risk / upside).

I have bad feelings about Abreu. His value in Vero Beach was primarily a very high batting average, which doesn't translate as well to higher levels (compared to OBP or SLG). Even with his defensive shortcomings, I'd take Young over Abreu.

It's a good point about Ruggiano sticking around, and based on his performance so far it could go either way. Obviously, if he's there it makes the comparison a lot closer.

One of the problems is what you stated, which is essentially what are we comparing. Are we looking at the Suns at the beginning of the season, mid-season, now, or end of season?

It keeps getting closer, but I'm sticking with my pick of this year's Suns team.

I guess Howard likes his women easternmost in quality, westernmost in flavor.

224 - Damn. Thought it was BBQ given the thread here.

Manny's is a good place for Mexican here in WLV (on TO Blvd, past Lindero).

I'll second Guelaguetza. For a while, I thought it was the best restaurant in L.A.

229 - how did you know...

db1022 - for BBQ...try TO Meat Locker on TO Blvd...or try Rustlers, corner of Lindero Cyn & Kanan...

220 227, etal. For you West Valley, East Ventura County guys, are you not into Wood Ranch for BBQ? I've always thought its pretty good.

Wood Ranch, how yesterday...

I was always partial to Love's

185. I think you made my point, Bob. That was a while ago. And even then, it's rare.

Based on this discussion I guess Cooperstown will have to add a whole new wing just to accommodate our Jacksonville roster.

The Canadiens haven't been to the finals since 1993 and haven't gone far in the playoffs since then.

In respect to Jon. Dang you Marty McSorely. We were 3 minuets away from taking a 2-0 lead and coming back home to LA for 3.

and dang you John Leclaire as well.

Based on this discussion I guess Cooperstown will have to add a whole new wing just to accommodate our Jacksonville roster.

yea, thats about right.

239 240 I just hope it isn't one day in the overblown overhyped wing

The guys this year who have pretty good OBPs with little power are Placido Polanco and Luis Castillo.

241
I've been to that wing.

I saw Clint Hartung's plaque. Greg Brock's nd Torey Lovullo's too.

It's in the back and you