Don Hoak=Mike Edwards

Not fair. Don Hoak was the starting third baseman on a World Championship team.

Two of them, in fact.

Rumor has it Jackie was benched for that game due to the arm angle of the opposing pitcher. Sorry, couldn't resist. Must be the pain medication talking. vr, Xei

I meant to put a question mark at the end of #1. And who's to say Mike Edwards won't be able to make the same claim one day?

The Dodgers aren't out of it yet.

It's a proven fact that the Dodgers can't win anything with an outspoken African-American player who can't get along well with his teammates.

1
Is Mike Edwards getting traded to the Cardinals?

7 Yes, for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter.

Both the Washington Post and New York Times reported that Robinson didn't start Game 7 because he had a sore Achilles tendon in his right leg. It bothered Robinson a lot in Game 6.

The quotes in the story from other players back it up. Newcombe seems to be the only player saying that Robinson should have played anyway.

But wasn't it more courageous for Alston to sit down a hobbled star in order in a big game so his team would be better off?

Furthermore, Bloom in his MLB.com article wonders why Karl Spooner got the start in Game 6. Spooner did get hit hard in that game, but in his previous appearance in Game 2, he had thrown three shutout innings with 5 Ks and just one hit.

It wasn't as if Spooner had no experience.

Another weird thing about Game 7 of the 1955 World Series.

The Dodgers had two sacrifices in that game.

One by Duke Snider and one by Roy Campanella. They were actually back-to-back and Snider reached on an error. Brooklyn did get its second run as a result of the sacrifices.

Leo Durocher would appear to be playing the role of Tommy Plaschke.

I keep hearing this arm angles commment attributed to Tracy, as a reason for not starting Choi, at some point in the season. Can someone confirm if Tracy actually said this, or is it an urban legend?

13 i'm pretty sure tracy once said he sat choi against woody williams because of williams' confusing "arm angles"

Slate article on the "cult of the GM."

http://myturl.com/001Pg

13, 14 - It was Brian Lawrence. Soft-tossing righty Brian Lawrence. Sheesh.

Jackie Robinson played in all seven games of the 1956 World Series, so I don't necessarily think that Robinson sitting down in Game 7 in 1955 was part of any Tracy/Choi like situation between Alston and Robinson.

He played every inning of the 1956 World Series.

Re: 13, 14, 16:

From Steve Henson in the LA Times, June 24, 2005:

Playing the Angles, Tracy Benches Choi

With three rookies and several players at unfamiliar positions, the Dodger lineup had an odd look. But even stranger was the absence of Hee-Seop Choi, whose 13 home runs rank second on the team, and Antonio Perez, whose .340 batting average ranks first.

Both players have made baserunning mistakes or failed to execute fundamentals in recent games, but Manager Jim Tracy said that neither was in his doghouse. Choi normally plays against right-handers, but he was 0 for 5 against Padre starter Brian Lawrence.

"I've got a good idea why Hee-Seop hasn't had success against him," Tracy said. "It's the repertoire of pitches he throws and his arm angles."

Lawrence throws from a low three-quarter arm slot and doesn't have great velocity or a sharp-breaking curve. His best pitches are a changeup and a sinking fastball.

June 24, 2005 LA Times

With three rookies and several players at unfamiliar positions, the Dodger lineup had an odd look. But even stranger was the absence of Hee-Seop Choi, whose 13 home runs rank second on the team, and Antonio Perez, whose .340 batting average ranks first.

Both players have made baserunning mistakes or failed to execute fundamentals in recent games, but Manager Jim Tracy said that neither was in his doghouse. Choi normally plays against right-handers, but he was 0 for 5 against Padre starter Brian Lawrence.

"I've got a good idea why Hee-Seop hasn't had success against him," Tracy said. "It's the repertoire of pitches he throws and his arm angles."

Lawrence throws from a low three-quarter arm slot and doesn't have great velocity or a sharp-breaking curve. His best pitches are a changeup and a sinking fastball.

Tracy used Choi rather than the right-handed hitting Perez as a pinch-hitter against left-handed reliever Chris Hammond with one out in the ninth. Choi struck out.

"I had to keep Perez available in case we got an infielder hurt later in the game," Tracy said. "We wouldn't have had anybody to go to."

18

Well I'm useless here.... :-)

We may have to bench you Bob for the betterment of the team...

haha, i guess in my mind lawrence and williams are almost the same thing.

didn't he sit choi against williams too?

He sits Choi against almost everyone.

23 I think Marty just coined a new (and hopefully temporary) nickname:

Hee-Sits Choi.

20 Bob, you had warped back to 1955, so I thought I'd take I shot at 13... :)

On the Padres, Choi has faced Eaton, Hammond, Hoffman, Lawrence (he's 1 for 3 this year), Linebrink, Peavy, Seanez, Stauffer, and Williams, in 2005.

He's 6 for 27 against San Diego this year.

Tracy's stock appears to be rising with McCourt as DePodesta's is falling.

from an article at yahoo sports
http://tinyurl.com/a996o

Is there a better time to sell! Maybe we could sell both Tracy and Mccourt!

MSM loves team chemistry. But I'm still not convinced that good team chemistry would've helped this Dodger team.

I dont remember which article, but I do remember reading PDP saying that if they got the same numbers from choi as he put up last year with Florida then he'd be happy, Tracy obviously has this locked in his memory so he's trying to keep choi's production this year with that of 04'.

I will be really really disappointed if McCourt ditches Depo -- that's the sign of over-reacting and sort-sightedness.

When the Dodgers signed Depo, I felt the same way as when my beloved Niners signed Mariucci, way back when (and to some degree, I feel the same way with Mike Nolan).

Hiring young, energetic, and smart people who have a reason to succeed is always a good move for a franchise.

27. That comment looks like the comment from the article on fox sports website by Ken Rosenthal that was discussed in the previous thread.

oldbear and Uncle Milty for the last few days have loudly (well, for a blog) criticized Dodgers, particularly Jeff Kent, for swinging early in the count. Here are his split, by count:

By Count OPS
Count 0-0 .903
Count 0-1 .806
Count 0-2 .586
Count 1-0 1.040
Count 1-1 1.136
Count 1-2 0.566
Count 2-0 .818
Count 2-1 .941
Count 2-2 1.420
Count 3-0 1.651
Count 3-1 1.306
Count 3-2 1.116
After 0-1 .761
After 0-2 .651
After 1-0 1.002
After 1-1 .816
After 1-2 .649
After 2-0 1.189
After 2-1 .842
After 2-2 .684
After 3-0 1.921
After 3-1 1.381
After 3-2 1.116

So he's good when he swings at the first pitch. He's very bad if he ever gets behind in the count, and very good if he gets ahead in the count. Also very good at 2-2 and 1-1.

So the question of whether or not Kent should swing at the first pitch basically comes down to this: if it's a strike, he should swing. If not, he shouldn't. Pretty simple. But for me the key is that he's bad if he starts 0-1.

GoBears, I'd qualify that by saying that he needs to be looking for a pitch, and if he gets it, swing away. Unfortunately, Kent seems occasionally over-eager and will either swing (and miss) at a questionable pitch, or hit something that he can't drive (and so he pops up).

After the bludgeoning McCourt took upon buying the team, it's not really surprising that he's become very PR-conscious [perhaps overly so]. Last week's round of interviews seemed designed to appease his critics.

For the second time since McCourt took over, I am somewhat worried about the franchise. At first, I was afraid he'd demolish the Stadium and develop the land, though that fear has been assuaged. Now, I've begun to worry that he has become knee-jerk image-conscious and will make silly decisions for the sake of PR with Sitrick & Co. whispering in his ear. The last thing I want is an overly sensitive owner that wants to be perceived well as opposed to running a great, competitive team and letting the local newspaper/talk radio run the show.

Not unlike the same problems that killed the Mets.

31

Charts like that can be deceptive because every batter is going to look really bad with two strikes. That's because you can't strike out with one or no strikes on you. So that removes a good chunk of your chances to be out.

You have to filter the strikeouts out of the 0-2, 1-2, 2-2, and 3-2 counts to get an accurate picture.

31 - The only reason he OPS's at .900 at the first pitch is because he swings at the first pitch only when it's a good pitch to hit.

Assuming he's swinging at an increased number of 1st pitches (for the sake of argument) - if that's the case, it's likely that the .900 OPS on first-pitch swings will drop very quickly since it is likely that not all of them will be easily handle-able pitches.

It's like Scott Hatteberg was quoted in Moneyball - people said he should swing at more 1st pitches because he hit, like, .390 in those circumstances. In reality, he only swung at the first pitch when it was exactly what he was looking for. If he swung at a great number of first pitches, the result would not be duplicated.

32 Nope - there's no need to qualify it. He has a .902 OPS when he swings at the first pitch, whether it's "his pitch" or not. He's better when he takes a ball, but much worse when he takes a strike (again, whether or not it's "his kind of strike").

Granted some of those 0-1 counts are the result of foul balls, but when the at-bat ENDS after 1 pitch, it's a pretty good thing, on average. It's also worth pointing out that he's hit twice as many HRs on the first pitch (6) than on any other count. I think we should trust his judgment, until he falls behind.

"That's the nature of the game. It's a game of adjustments. Guys will get you for a while and you will get them for a while," Kent said.

"Jeff Kent is an RBI machine. It's amazing the way he plays," said Los Angeles closer Eric Gagne, who pitched a 1-2-3 ninth for his sixth save in as many chances.

31, 36 - Is Kent's OPS trully .902 when he swings at the first pitch, or only when he swings at the first pitch AND puts the ball in play?

0-1 counts can also be the result of swinging and misses, not just foul balls or taking strikes.

34-35. Bob is right, of course. And the same goes for walks on 3-ball counts. But either OZ misses my point, or I miss his. I'm not saying Kent should swing at the first pitch more often. I'm not using these data for any prescriptive purpose. I'm just saying that that when he does have a 1-pitch AB, he's pretty successful. So, as OZ says, he's likely swinging at good pitches. So to just criticize him for not "working" the count misses the point. If it's a strike, he SHOULD swing. BTW, he's had 81 1-pitch ABs this year, out of 451 total. 200 times, he's gone 0-1, and 170 times, he's gone 1-0. Natch, a lot of those 0-1 starts are probably foul balls.

Um, swinging and missing, I guess. I'm terribly bad at grammer.

38. You're right, Joon. The .902 OPS refers to ABs that end after the first pitch.

oops...37 refs:
June 7, 2005
CBS SportsLine.com wire

http://tinyurl.com/axrsp

33 I feel the same way as OZ on the McCourt thing. If he chooses Tracy over DePo, I'll lose interest in this team very quickly. Especially if he hires a Jim Bowden type.

41 - So, the end result of Kent's swinging at the first pitch is a combination of his one pitch at bats and some of his at bats after 0-1 when the strike is a result of his swinging; namely, somewhere between .901 and .761 OPS. Still not bad, obviously, but not as good as .901 sounds.

43 Bowden would make this team a playoff team. Assuming that all the team needed was about 10 more Repkos. He signs Castilla, Guzman, and every toolsey OF he can find, and wonders why his offense sucks...

If DePo left instead of Tracy, I would still follow the Dodgers. I'll even root for a team of Repkos if needed

44 - typo: .901 should be .903

Boston Herald is reporting that Mark Bellhorn is on his way to Oakland. Don't remember who it was, but somebody here wondered if he might look good in blue.

http://tinyurl.com/dvlur

39 - I finally get what you're saying: No need to criticize Kent for having 1-pitch at bats when he's been very successful in such cases. I was just thinking about whether Kent has been good when he swings at the first pitch.

This will be the game chat thread.

Re: Kent -- he does well overall with his first-pitch swings... but he does even better when the count is deeper and in his favor and the pitcher is forced to throw a strike (and usually a fastball). When Kent is on, he looks for those first-pitch "get ahead in the count" fastballs and drives them. But when he's slumping, he'll go after the first-pitch outside slider or fastball off the plate just as much. (I guess I'm just saying he gets a bit over-eager when he presses).

39. Joos is right. You have to combine the numbers from being 0-1 count (when he swung and fouled one off) and the times he made a play on the 1st pitch.

If you combine those, Kent's below his seasonal averages.

I guess I meant two things:
1) maybe Kent is making an adjustment (you'd have at career numbers I guess)
AND
2) isn't it his job to bat runners in as opposed to taking a walk? Not that he can't take a walk when appropriate, but with runners in scoring position it seems like he (and Olmedo) are the guys you want swinging the bat.

52- I'm not saying he should try to walk, merely that when the count is in his favor, his OPS jumps into "truly awesome" territory.

Is J.D. Drew still a Dodger?

39 - A belated rejoinder:

I think we're on the same page, GoBears. My point was poorly articulated. What I was trying to say is in regard to a commentor complainging about Kent's apparently increasing number first-pitch swings (I have no idea whether he is first-pitch swinging any more frequently than he has in the past).

If Kent IS swinging at the first pitch more often than he did while posting a .900 OPS, it's likely that he's swinging at more bad pitches than getting more good pitches to hit. If this is the case, I would expect his performance on first-pitch swings to suffer going forward.

"Is J.D. Drew still a Dodger?"

He could be a lot better at dodging pitches thrown at his wrist, if that's what you're asking.

47 And now foxsports.com says the Yankees. I liked him in Blue, but I'll have to hate him if he goes to the Yanks.

Random Dodger game callback

August 29, 1922

Not wasting much time, Brooklyn and Pittsburgh took just 2 hours and 31 minutes to play two full games in a doubleheader at Forbes Field. In the end, the teams split the twinbill with the Dodgers winning the opener 3-2 and the Pirates winning the second 6-0. Brooklyn was out of the race at 59-63 and in sixth place, 16 games behind the first place Giants.

In the opener, Bernie Neis hit his only home run of the season with Tommy Griffith aboard to give the Dodgers a 2-0 lead. Griffith drove in Brooklyn's other run on a sacrifice fly. Brooklyn starter Dutch Ruether held on for the win despite giving up a home run to Pittsburgh second baseman Cotton Tierney.

In the second game, Pittsburgh control artist Babe Adams faced Brooklyn's Leon Cadore. Pittsburgh scored twice in the first inning on an RBI triple from Max Carey and a squeeze bunt single by Carson Bigbee. Pie Traynor tripled home two runs in a 3-run third for Pittsburgh and Rabbit Maranville singled home Pittsburgh's final run. Adams gave up six hits and walked none. Adams walked just 15 batters in 171 IP that season.

Pittsburgh was managed by Bill McKechnie, who was in his first year with Pittsburgh, taking over for George Gibson on July 1. McKechnie would manage four NL pennant winners and win two World Series champs, one with the Pirates in 1925 and another with the Reds in 1940. McKechnie would eventually be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

1922 was not Brooklyn's year. Two years after winning the National League pennant, Brooklyn slumped to 76-78 and sixth place, 17 games behind the Giants. Brooklyn had offensive stars in Zack Wheat, who batted .335 with 16 home run and shortstop Jimmy Johnston who batted .319. But the Deadball Era was ending and power was going to be the name of the game. The Dodgers hit just 56 home runs in 1922, fourth best in the league. The Dodgers were also sixth in runs scored.

Ruether was the team's best pitcher, going 21-12 with a 3.53. But a newcomer to the team would be a bigger story. A 31-year old journeyman minor leaguer named Dazzy Vance made his Brooklyn debut in 1922. He would go 18-12 with a 3.70 ERA. Vance would go on to have one of the finest pitching careers of any Dodger not surnamed Koufax. Vance's legacy was damaged by being stuck on bad teams and not being able to put in enough high quality years because he didn't blossom until late in his career. Vance was one year older at the start of his Dodgers career than Sandy Koufax was at the end of his Dodgers career.

The Giants were now the dominant team in the National League and in the midst of a 4-year streak of NL pennants including two World Series titles. The Dodgers were going to be loveable losers for quite a while.

Thanks to the Los Angeles Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

57 - Don't the Yanks and A's have the same record? Who gets dibs on the waiver priority?

Perez gets another start at 3B, but Phillips is still at 1B against the Cubs...

Perez, 3B
Robles, SS
Kent, 2B
Ledee, LF
Phillips, 1B
Werth, CF
Navarro, C
Cruz, Jr., RF
Houlton, P

59 - Nevermind. He already cleared.

60 - At least Cruz is getting the start over Repko and Valentin consistently.

And apparently Werth did not impress in the leadoff spot...

I would gladly pay $100 to know what was going through Tracy's mind when Choi's double proved the winning run yesterday. Is there really no point in this season when he will rethink this issue?

Choi doubles and is the winning (and only) run (discounting the PR), so he is benched against a righty. And why is Phillips in the 5 spot (or worse, clean up)? The Perez/Choi Principle holds through

Cruz is now batting .256/.370/.359 (39 ABs) as a Dodoger, and strikes out as much as Werth, yet he's batting 8th. Switch him and Phillips, and this is at least an ok line up.

The Jayson Werth experiment is a project I will gladly give up on after 1 day.

Dusty decided to be really mean to Barrett, sandwiched between crap

CF Hairston
2B Walker
1B Lee
RF Burnitz
3B Garciaparra
LF Hollandsworth
SS Neifi
C Barrett
P Williams

Nothing irks me more than Phillips starting at 1st. I love seeing Perez in there, but Robles, Valentin or Saenz in front of him isn't as maddening as seeing Phillips in front of Choi.

Phillips .241 .292 .673
Cruz .221 .349 .768
Werth .242 .329 .715

Which one of these players would YOU bat 5th?

Phillips? I think not.

68 - and Choi isn't even on your list.

Who you calling crap?!

Neifi .694 OPS
Phillips .673 OPS

Just remembered that I was hoping to see Aybar, but I won't complain about Perez. Assuming the Perez/Choi Principle holds true, I'd hope Aybar gets the start with Choi (mid Sept i'd guess)

Tracy still loves Phillips' high batting average with RISP (.309 AVG/.360 OBP/.557 SLG in 97 AB), so he'll keep him in the middle of the lineup until he fails noticeably in those situations.

Only five more games with no Vin. These three and two Saturday games on Fox.

Perhaps Phillips is on a hot streak in August, so Tracy is playing the hot hand. That would be a valid reason, maybe, right?

IN AUGUST
Phillips .256 .310 .771
Choi .353 .439 .998

Whoops. Guess not.

At least the Cubs have to be through this as well, their 2nd highest OPS is batting 8th. And while our bench has Choi and Saenz, they get a bench with OPSs of .673, .650, .626, .625, and .000 (Cedeno, Blanco, Patterson, Macias, and AAAA McClain)

73 I picked a good game to miss, Steiner and Lyons or whatever ESPN has to offer. Hope the Dodgers can muster some offense, and Houlton can hold off the Cubs offense (shouldn't be too hard).

MLB.com's Player to Watch:

Choi is 1-for-3 with a homer lifetime against Williams. The rest of the active roster is a combined 4-for-24 (.167) in their careers against Williams

I think the link to the today's game is mistakingly linked to yesterday's win.

78 - almost fixed it before someone noticed. Fixed now.

Willy Aybar has been given #15.

I guess this means Shawn Green really isn't coming back.

80
Or Davey Lopes

Dioner Navarro, Oscar Robles and Jeff Weaver were nominated for NL Player of the Week (August 22-28), losing to David Wright.

Is it an honor just to be nominated?

How could weaver have not gotten NL player fo the week? He's a pitcher who had 3 Rbis and 16innings of great pitched baseball.

80 LAT's daughter has found a new least favorite player.

Poor Willy...he never had a chance.

Wright batted .481 (13-for-27) with three home runs, five RBI, 10 runs scored and 25 total bases to help lead the Mets to five wins in seven games during a West Coast trip. He topped all NL players in hits, slugging percentage (.926), on-base percentage (.533) and total bases, while his 10 runs tied for the league lead.

That's pretty good.

Choi lost out to Shawn Green on the weekend he hit six home runs.

The Dodgers don't have what it to takes to win Player of the Week.

It takes more than talent. It takes character.

82 - A "Player of the Week" nomination is probably about as gratifying as being a love interest's second choice for "Flavor of the Week".

83 He has this month's High Times centerfold, though, and was also named NORML's "Blazer of the Week."

The first paragraph in 85 is from wire services. The second paragraph is my commentary.

86- Im not the peeved about Weavers loss this week I mean he didnt pitch any complete gaems or anyhting, but when Choi got beat out by Green that was retarded.

89 Yeah, that first paragraph just didn't read like your work, Jon.

i kinda was hoping aybar would play. we didnt bring him up to sit.

90 I think you mean, "That was disabled."

not good, JtD got suspended.

92 - is that comment tongue-in-cheek?

93-I meant that the association of NL player of the week voters are slow to learn.

Ah, yes, the friendly confines of Wrigley Field.

All things considered, I'd rather be on Catalina.

96 I know. I was making fun of the fact that we can't say "retarded" anymore without offending the entire world.