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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Hochevar's Going to School, All Right - If You Know What I Mean (Nudge Nudge, Wink Wink, Say No More)
2005-09-08 07:41
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Negotiation fatigue set in for Dodger first-round draft pick Luke Hochevar last week, leading to some topsy-turvy gyrations in the process, according to Tony Jackson of the Daily News:

Hochevar fired Los Angeles-based agent Scott Boras as his advisor. At the behest of his roommate, best friend and Tennessee teammate Eli Iorg - an outfielder drafted by Houston with the 38th overall pick - Hochevar agreed to allow Iorg's San Francisco-based agents, Paul Cobbe and Matt Sosnick, to represent him.

Hochevar, while being advised by Cobbe and Sosnick, agreed to terms on a $2.98 million signing bonus, which would have been the highest ever paid by any club to a non-first-round pick. Before actually signing the deal, Hochevar reneged and went back to Boras. This took place after what Cobbe described as a "heated exchange" over the telephone between Hochevar and someone presumed to be Boras. At the time, Hochevar was at the Tennessee home of Iorg's father, former major-league outfielder Garth Iorg, and Cobbe said he and Sosnick overheard Hochevar in the background while they talked by telephone to one of the Iorges. …

"Luke told Eli he was tired and was going to sign their original offer of $2.3 million," Cobbe said. "Eli told him, 'Wait and talk to my guys first,' and Luke was willing to do that. We believed Luke could do better than the $2.3 million, because he probably would have gone seventh in the draft if not for extenuating circumstances regarding his representation."

But since reaching the agreement for the $2.98 million bonus (in "about 45 minutes," Jackson quotes Cobbe as saying), neither Cobbe, Sosnick nor Dodger scout Marty Lamb, sent to Tennessee by Dodger scouting director Logan White, has been able to contact Hochevar. Boras told Jackson that there had been "no change" in his status as Hochevar's attorney, and in a round-the-horn way, he might be right.

Hochevar, for now, remains in Tennessee without attending classes. He could sign at any moment with the Dodgers or return for the next semester in 2006.

Some will certainly question at this point whether Boras is truly representing his client's wishes, and the question of what caused Hochevar to return to or remain with Boras hangs in the air. The counterpoint is that Hochevar's right to sign any contract trumps whatever Boras' desires would be.

Still, one can imagine how confused Hochevar, who turns 22 a week from today, might be. But if Hochevar's true desire is to begin his professional career, the money is there.

* * *

Orel Hershiser fans will probably enjoy this item from Evan Grant in the Dallas Morning News, captured by David Pinto at Baseball Musings. If you're a pitcher, it's nice to have a Hershiser looking out for you.

Texas Rangers rookie starting pitcher Chris Young, 26, left Wednesday's game after one inning, in part because Hershiser had issued a warning that Young's fastball lacked life in pregame warmups.

"It just wasn't worth the risk," (Texas manager Buck) Showalter said. "I didn't like some of the things I was seeing."

What he saw in a scoreless first inning was a fastball that registered only 84-86 mph. Young had been regularly hitting 88-91 and touching as high as 94 on occasion.

* * *

This was an interesting e-mail to get:

From: "dodgers.com"
Date: 2005/09/07 Wed PM 06:02:43 PDT
Subject: Watch the Dodgers Race to the Postseason - LIVE online

"Get Every Dodgers Postseason Game LIVE on MLB.com"

Good to know we're covered ...

Comments (434)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-09-08 08:13:54
1.   Sushirabbit
Nothing would please me more than to see Boras in a lawsuit with Hooch and the Dodgers.

I think I actually am starting to hate the guy.

2005-09-08 08:14:42
2.   Jon Weisman
I don't know how this would end up in a lawsuit.
2005-09-08 08:21:03
3.   Eric Enders
I suppose theoretically it could end up in some sort of lawsuit over whether an oral agreement is contractually binding.... but I very much doubt it will go that direction.
2005-09-08 08:22:38
4.   Sushirabbit
My take was that Boras implied he would sue if Hochevar utilized Sosnick and Cobbe. That sounds like the norm for Boras.
2005-09-08 08:22:46
5.   Eric Enders
BTW, the best line in the article:

"In a voicemail message left in response to a message from the Daily News, Boras said nothing had changed in his relationship with Hochevar (pronounced HOATCH-ay-vur), whose surname Boras badly mispronounced in the message."

2005-09-08 08:24:02
6.   blue22
So am I reading this correctly, that the Dodgers best offer with Boras representing was $2.3M?

It then took the new agents 45 minutes to get that up to $2.98M?

2005-09-08 08:28:07
7.   Eric Enders
The article basically implies that the Dodgers were always willing to go that high, but Boras was refusing to even enter into negotiations (which was the reason for his short-lived firing).
2005-09-08 08:30:16
8.   Jon Weisman
Seems to me, that the threat of such a lawsuit would imply that Hochevar and Boras have a relationship beyond the NCAA-tolerated "advisor" role. Not that I really have any idea of the NCAA's definition of the role.
2005-09-08 08:34:20
9.   blue22
"the Iorges"

Is this funny to anyone else? Imagine this on a welcome mat.

2005-09-08 08:34:24
10.   Eric Enders
Boras says in the article that he's Hochevar's "attorney," as opposed to "adviser." FWIW.

Whatever the NCAA's definition is, it's all screwed up. Boras is acting as an agent in everything but name. This whole system of "advisers" is pretty much a sham.

2005-09-08 08:39:58
11.   Bob Timmermann
But the attorney/advisor sham is something that everyone agrees to and it makes them feel better despite it not being correct.

Such inconsistencies are the foundation of college athletics in the United States.

2005-09-08 08:40:27
12.   Sushirabbit
Yeah, Eric, it is a sham. If Miles McAffe can cause problems I am sure Boras can. I never heard the end of that Cory Dunlap stuff. Maybe they just pay McAffe off? I'm sure Boras won't go for that.
2005-09-08 08:42:02
13.   Penarol1916
You know, I've always at least respected Boras for looking out for his clients' best interest, or at least what his clients wanted.
I'm really trying to understand this from the client perspective. Is Hochevar just really flakey? Is he being intimidated by Boras? Is he just one of those guys, who the last thing he hears sounds good to him and is thus easily persuaded?
2005-09-08 08:50:07
14.   Yakface
Hochevar called Boras to ask him why he couldnt get him 2.98 million like the other guys boras replied because I can get you more thus the fact that Luke has no clue whats going on.
2005-09-08 08:50:22
15.   molokai
Crazy story but the bottom line is that it looks like Hochevar will sign with us.
2005-09-08 08:51:56
16.   Yakface
Maybe Depo can sign Hochever for 2.5mil then throw in Odalis Peanut as a Bonus.
2005-09-08 08:52:59
17.   Bob Timmermann
13 persuaded me, until I read 14 and then I thought about it again after I read 15
2005-09-08 08:57:12
18.   Yakface
13 got me thinking 14 was my thought 15 was my conclussion and 17 was the process.
2005-09-08 08:59:12
19.   Penarol1916
17 just made me dizzy.
2005-09-08 09:00:17
20.   Yakface
I read some posts from last night this morning at work and that has me wondering what are you doing awake bob? Your last post was at like 2 or 3.
2005-09-08 09:03:33
21.   Bob Timmermann
I went to bed a little before 2 I believe. Unless I posted while asleep.

I'm off work for four days and will spend much of today sleeping at various times.

2005-09-08 09:06:25
22.   Kayaker7
I got that e-mail from mlb.com too. I deleted it, after seeing the subject line.
2005-09-08 09:08:45
23.   Bob Timmermann
Don't discount the Dodgers' playoff hopes! They've moved ahead of the Giants in likelihood of winning the division by a few fractional percentage points. I assume that is based on the Dodgers playing the Pirates while the Giants still have to play Chicago and Washington.
2005-09-08 09:12:37
24.   Yakface
Anyone notice that for the last month the only movie ad they've had a Dodger stadium is for the corpse bride? And the slogan is rising to the occasion this september? Does this mean anything? Its been on the digital banner at least every game at home, Rising to the occasion this september? Could this be JD Drew coming off the DL? or Jose Cruz dominating opposing pitching? How about line ups that make sense? Only time will tell...
2005-09-08 09:14:44
25.   Eric Enders
"And the slogan is rising to the occasion this september?"
==========

They could save themselves some trouble by just leaving this slogan up whenever the Viagra ad rotates in.

2005-09-08 09:17:25
26.   Yakface
25-lol my Fiancee said the same thing, about the ad. not me.
2005-09-08 09:20:06
27.   Bob Timmermann
Even Sarah Morris is mad now:

http://tinyurl.com/9z5u8

Well maybe not angry, but she's certainly pretty disappointed.

I think she must have filed this before last night's game was over because she says that Weaver had a good start against the Giants.

2005-09-08 09:29:18
28.   Jon Weisman
Quite frankly, Sarah's piece is nonsensical, particularly the last paragraph.
2005-09-08 09:31:32
29.   Kayaker7
27 A fan asked me, "Why has Derek Lowe given up the most home runs in a year during his career this season?" "Why has Jeff Weaver allowed the most home runs this year during his career?" I don't know. I know their sinkers are not sinking. This is something that I don't have an answer for.

Sarah, bless her heart. But this statement is not true. Lowe's groundball/flyball ratio is still 3.01, which is better than 2004 when it was 2.87 and he gave up only 15 dingers.

2005-09-08 09:33:32
30.   regfairfield
I would conclude that Lowe's sinker is now a strike out pitch, rather than one that goes out of the strike zone and he hopes they tap at feebly. His massively improved strike out and walk rates support this theory.
2005-09-08 09:36:07
31.   Eric Enders
28 --

I feel like a nasty, horrible person for saying this, but how does that make this piece different from the rest of her articles?

2005-09-08 09:36:49
32.   Kayaker7
Sarah gets a pass because of her disability. Otherwise, I'd probably be much harsher.

I was thinking last night, could it be that our beloved Vin Scully is responsible for much of the nonsense that baseball fans believe in? With his smooth, velvet-like voice, his rattles off stats that are, frankly, irrelevant. Do we care that such and such hitter is 3-6 against some batter, for a .500 BA? He commented that Jose Jr. rode the elevator down when he struck out after his homerun, making it seem like striking out is a particularly bad way of making an out. I love Vin, but I have to say, he spouts off the most small sample stats of anyone on TV, and his credibility seduces fans into believing them.

2005-09-08 09:41:18
33.   Yakface
32- Blasphemy.
2005-09-08 09:42:27
34.   Kayaker7
33 Crucify me. :)
2005-09-08 09:44:22
35.   dzzrtRatt
My brother, who's a Giants fan, asked me yesterday why the Dodgers persist in this folly that they're in the pennant race. Just pack it in and play "the kids" to find out what they can do, he suggested. I told him that's what they've been doing since May.

It was enjoyable to send an email last night saying the Giants getting beat by Jeff Kent is one thing; he's a future Hall of Famer. But to get beat by Oscar Robles and Mike Edwards? Without injuries, Edwards would never have played for the Dodgers, and Robles, at best, would have been a utility player.

When Bob Timmermann summarizes the 2005 season in a future RDGC, the first thing he'll cite is the plague of injuries. Gagne, Drew, Bradley, Valentin, and it's pretty clear now that Izturis' offensive decline was due to his physical condition. Entirely healthy, the '05 Dodgers were only marginal contenders to begin with. Tracy didn't do too badly under these circumstances; even though I don't like him, I can't say another manager would've done any better. DePo was smart not to try too hard to engineer a July deadline deal. The future continues to look very bright. Let the folly continue a few more days!

2005-09-08 09:45:32
36.   Steve
This Tony Clark nonsense has got to end.
2005-09-08 09:47:01
37.   Yakface
What would you rather he talk about? He already mentioned their favorite color, a funny story they might have told him or he heard about, their wifes favorite flavor of ice cream and so then he mentions some stats comparing how well a certain batter does against a certain pitcher I dont see how that could be discussed negatively, would you rather he say junk about the umps bad calls or yelling at the ball to leave the park?
2005-09-08 09:48:09
38.   Kayaker7
Just read a Baseball Prospectus article that shows that, based on Adjusted Runs Prevented (ARP), Brazoban is the worst reliever in baseball. I have to ask, how does Depodesta allow this? Does he even show stats to Tracy, or does Tracy rummage through find stats to support his own decision? i.e., BA with RISP for Phillips? It is truly mind boggling how many times the Dodgers have made decisions that are in contrast to statistics.
2005-09-08 09:49:26
39.   Eric Enders
32 - Re Vinny -- just because a stat has no predictive value doesn't mean it's irrelevant. It can still be, you know, interesting.

And I don't think Vinny is trying to sell anyone on the virtuosity of batter vs pitcher stats -- he's simply throwing them out there, for people to attach as much or as little importance as they wish.

And striking out IS an embarrassing way to make an out. Again, sabermetrics aside, it is a fact that batters hate to strike out, and that fans hate for their batters to strike out. He's simply acknowledging that reality.

Lastly, all these announcers, Vinny and everyone else, are simply reading the info that's available on the stat report provided by the team. If a change is to be made in the types of stats that get read over the air, it's the Dodgers' PR folks who would have to initiate/enable that change.

2005-09-08 09:49:58
40.   ryu
32, re: Scully. I've heard him acknowledge it when the sample is small.
2005-09-08 09:50:26
41.   Jon Weisman
30 - Only by degrees.

Sarah's been on Dodgers.com long enough, and her backstory is far enough in the past, that many of her readers may not know about her condition. Which might well be how she prefers it. In any event, I don't think one has to be apologetic in criticzing her material when warranted - it's not personal.

2005-09-08 09:50:40
42.   Steve
What is an "Adjusted Run Prevented?"
2005-09-08 09:52:11
43.   Kayaker7
37 You're missing my point. Like I said, I love Vinny, like every Dodger fan does. The point is that his comments have a strong influence on fans. I'm just pointing out what I see, not that I'd have it any other way. It would just too weird to have Vin say, "Phillips is hitting very well with men in scoring position, but as we all know from recent statistical analyses, this is all poppycock based on small samples and random variations." He's much better than Rex Hudler. ;-)
2005-09-08 09:52:27
44.   Eric Enders
Anyone else notice that two consecutive dramatic walkoff victories has caused Dodger Blues to crash? They can't handle the truth!
2005-09-08 09:52:34
45.   Steve
it's the Dodgers' PR folks who would have to initiate/enable that change.

Appropos of nothing, last night the Spin Board, when Elmer Dessens came into the game, said "Elmer has also pitched in Mexico and Japan."

Nothing against those fine, fine nation-states, but that's not necessarily a good thing.

2005-09-08 09:54:24
46.   Yakface
41- I've heard she was disabled and what not for the last 2 seasons but what I dont know is how, what does she suffer from?
2005-09-08 09:55:16
47.   Kayaker7
42 Without getting into the equation: the number of runs a reliever prevented over a replacement level reliever, adjusted for other factors such as inherited and bequeathed runners.
2005-09-08 09:56:16
48.   Yakface
43- I guess you want your apples to taste like oranges too dont you?
2005-09-08 09:56:56
49.   Kayaker7
46 Plashke wrote a piece on her, years ago. She has MS, I believe. She writes her articles using an optical device that points to letters on a screen, controlled by the movement of her head. It takes 3 hours to type something that takes us 10 minutes.
2005-09-08 09:57:23
50.   Eric Enders
"The point is that his comments have a strong influence on fans."

Of course. But he doesn't MAKE any comments about the worthiness of the stat -- he just puts it out there.

Just like he religiously tells us all the details of a player's tattoos. I don't think he does that in order to encourage everyone to go out and get tattoos. He does it because the information is interesting. Same deal.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-09-08 09:57:51
51.   dzzrtRatt
Vin's a dramatist by nature. Until Ross Porter came along, I don't remember Vinny doing much more with stats than what you could get off the back of a Topps baseball card. Deep down, I think he knows his stats are just time-fillers.

Do baseball cards nowadays include OBP, OPS, WHIP, etc? Bill James should brand a line of baseball cards with meaningful numbers and honest assessments.

2005-09-08 09:58:15
52.   Yakface
49- Thanks for the info.
2005-09-08 09:58:35
53.   Bob Timmermann
Last night there was also this for Jason Phillips

"Has 19 RBI in his last 41 games."

Umm.... OK.......

However, I would hope that Elmer Dessens has pitched in Mexico. Being Mexican and all that.

I will no longer be seing the delightful note about how Cesar Izturis surpassed Bill Rusell's L.A. record for doubles by a shortstop.

2005-09-08 09:59:04
54.   Eric Enders
Plaschke's original Sarah Morris article.

http://www.thestlcardinals.homestead.com/SarahMorris.html

Best thing he ever did, although I realize that's not saying much.

2005-09-08 09:59:35
55.   Jon Weisman
38 - I think the point in this case is unfair. Brazoban was not the Dodgers' worst reliever in the season's first half - in fact, in terms of VORP, he was their second-best after 54 games.

One could also argue that the closer role, frankly, isn't the role for the most important reliever (although Tracy might not make that argument, DePodesta might).

In any case, we can split hairs over when the move was made, but if anything, Tracy used Brazoban too little early in the season, and certainly, when things blew up later, he moved him out of the spotlight. I really don't think Tracy demoted Brazoban too soon or too late.

I will note that Sanchez had the highest VORP among Dodger relievers even after 54 games.

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/189497.html

2005-09-08 10:01:56
56.   Steve
47 -- thanks
2005-09-08 10:02:36
57.   Eric Enders
"Has 19 RBI in his last 41 games."
--------

See, this is exactly the kind of inane stuff that gets put into the game notes -- for every team, not just the Dodgers. So broadcasters have a choice of either reading that or nothing at all. Any change would need to be made at the source, which is the team's PR department.

2005-09-08 10:02:47
58.   Bob Timmermann
So if Arizona wins, the Dodgers will slip to fourth by .0007.

This is the first sign of the fulfillment of the Naccarato Prophecy.

2005-09-08 10:04:28
59.   Eric Enders
58 - There's gotta be a Bond joke in there somewhere.
2005-09-08 10:05:01
60.   Steve
Dustin Nippert?
2005-09-08 10:06:21
61.   Kayaker7
48 Nah, I became a Dodger fan, listening to Vinny. So, I came to believe all those stats as valid. Sure, he acknowledges that 3 at bats is a small sample, but he does not tell you that 10 at bats is pretty darned small too. I almost gave up on baseball, because traditional stats create unrealistic expectations and result in disappointment.

It pissed me off when a batter hit little bloopers that win the ballgame, and he is treated like a hero. I was pretty disgusted and came to the conclusion that baseball was a game of pure luck. I didn't want to watch this silly game anymore.

Then I discovered Baseball Prospectus. Sabermetrics gave me new insight, and it made me feel better, in that it did acknowledge that much of baseball is luck, that I'm not crazy to think so. And that the blathering of sports announcers eager to crown new heroes is crap, like I always suspected. Sabermetrics allowed me to cope psychologically when my heroes failed or my team did not win. It is much easier to accept that Dodgers are losing, when you see that the OPS of the lineup is low, and it is not due to the players lacking passion.

Of course, this new-found knowledge creates new problems of its own. It is difficult to talk to friends who still believe in traditional counting stats. It is difficult to listen to Joe Morgan. It is difficult to watch Jim Tracy's decisions.

2005-09-08 10:11:36
62.   Kayaker7
54 Honestly, when I read that article, I cried. Sarah, the person, is an inspiration to us all.
2005-09-08 10:17:05
63.   Bob Timmermann
61

Anyone know what the Dodgers DIPS ERA is? If you can see how that compares to other teams, then you might know that the Dodgers record this year isn't bad luck.

2005-09-08 10:26:51
64.   Kayaker7
63 Didn't Vinny mention this last night? ;-)

I tried searching for it. So, what is it?

2005-09-08 10:27:01
65.   Xeifrank
According to ESPN stats:

Dodgers rank 11th in the NL in DIPS

Padres #3
Dodgers #11
Giants #12
Rockies #13
DBacks #14
out of 16 teams. vr, Xei

2005-09-08 10:27:18
66.   Kayaker7
I don't mean a definition. How are the Dodgers doing, DIPS-wise?
2005-09-08 10:27:54
67.   Kayaker7
65 Thanks. You're much faster than me.
2005-09-08 10:32:06
68.   Kayaker7
I'm surprised to see that the Marlins top the Astros, in DIPS.
2005-09-08 10:32:12
69.   dzzrtRatt
61 articulate something I've been thinking about lately. Sabermetrics is more than just a way to understand baseball and guide management decisions. It is also what allows intelligent adults to continue to pay attention to this "silly game" that we love. The degree of added certainty, the knowledge that every player and team eventually regresses to the mean, the realization that most mysteries can be solved by going deeper into the vast data base of measurable baseball events, makes the diverting frivolity of following a baseball season seem like a worthy pursuit for someone who's more than 12 years old. Whatever keeps people engaged with this great game is fine with me, but without sabermetrics, I think of lot of smart people would have drifted away from the game long ago.
2005-09-08 10:34:45
70.   Icaros
61 Nice post. I, too, have been changed for the better by baseball's statistical renaissance, or at least by my discovery of it.

But now, the only people I can really talk about baseball with come in the form of screen names.

2005-09-08 10:39:32
71.   Steve
Moneyball saved me.
2005-09-08 10:42:23
72.   dzzrtRatt
61 articulate something I've been thinking about lately. Sabermetrics is more than just a way to understand baseball and guide management decisions. It is also what allows intelligent adults to continue to pay attention to this "silly game" that we love. The degree of added certainty, the knowledge that every player and team eventually regresses to the mean, the realization that most mysteries can be solved by going deeper into the vast data base of measurable baseball events, makes the diverting frivolity of following a baseball season seem like a worthy pursuit for someone who's more than 12 years old. Whatever keeps people engaged with this great game is fine with me, but without sabermetrics, I think of lot of smart people would have drifted away from the game long ago.
2005-09-08 10:42:45
73.   Bob Timmermann
69

It's little secret to those here that I consider myself pretty smart and I pretty much just deign to take to people with such small intellects as you folks. :-) (Remember, I've also seen every episode of "Gilligan's Island" at least three times.)

But ...

I still enjoy watching baseball despite reading about sabermetrics. It makes me understand the game more, but I still enjoy watching a game last night just because it was exciting and unexpected. I enjoy the game a lot more for its unpredictability and its ability to make me care about something else that is not particularly important in the grand scheme of things. Or else I would spend my entire day worrying about nuclear war or a rupture along the San Andreas Fault. Or maybe that mole I have is looking a little funny...

2005-09-08 10:43:50
74.   molokai
61 Great post. I've loved baseball since I was 5 and never stopped but what I've learned about the game in the last 10 years makes me cringe at how ignorant I was for 30 years.

In my heart I feel that Andru Jones is the MVP this year since he literally carried that team while everyone fell down around him but Joe Sheehan of BP did an article yesterday saying that anyone who thinks Jones is the MVP is an idiot. So even though I think I've become more sabermetric in my thinking I'm evidently still an idiot. Some things never change.

2005-09-08 10:45:45
75.   Icaros
Or maybe that mole I have is looking a little funny...

I thought you had a cat.

2005-09-08 10:48:11
76.   Kayaker7
The sort of stuff that drives me crazy, now that I've been "enlightened": Joe Morgan commented, in the Red Sox-Angels game last night, when Adam Kennedy came up to bat, with men on the corners and two out, that the Angels have scored all their runs with two outs. They showed a stat showing that the Angels were batting something like 7-16, with two outs last night.

I felt like screaming at the TV, that it only shows the Angels are likely to revert to the mean, and do more poorly with 2 outs. I felt a smug sense of satisfaction when Kennedy weakly grounded to the thirdbaseman for the third out.

2005-09-08 10:49:05
77.   Bob Timmermann
I have a naked mole rat now because I wanted to impress my nephew who is a big fan of "Kim Possible."
2005-09-08 10:51:56
78.   Steve
74 -- I think somebody on Hardball Times wrote about Jones yesterday, saying that Pujols had 12 more win shares than Jones because (wait for it)...

Jones has hit badly with RISP.

2005-09-08 10:52:53
79.   Kayaker7
73 I agree that sport is interesting due to the uncertainty. If things were certain, why even play the game? But, I do draw the line when a game is PURELY luck, where no skill can distinguish the good from bad. I am happy to find that baseball is indeed dependent on skill, with a heavy dose of luck. Also, the higher skill level is not manifested in a handful of games nor even a whole month of games. But, as sure as eggs is eggs, things revert to the mean; the sun rises in the east, and the good players and good teams do tend to come out ahead in the long run. The Washington Nationals of the world can rely on timely hitting only for a short period of time, before anemic hitting and poor OBP catches up with them.
2005-09-08 10:57:29
80.   Steve
I don't think eggs are eggs.
2005-09-08 10:59:42
81.   Bob Timmermann
And the Pirates have gone ahead of the DBacks 3-2.

Yea! (think crowd in "Tom Slick")

2005-09-08 11:00:33
82.   Jon Weisman
The launchpoint of the sunrise has certainly been a topic of pointed discussion this week :)
2005-09-08 11:01:20
83.   Jon Weisman
Which player drives the Thunderbolt Greaseslapper, Bob?
2005-09-08 11:01:44
84.   Kayaker7
80 That's "eggs is eggs." LOL. I picked up that saying from an English gentleman that I've worked with for five years. He had a plethora of other unusual phrases and words like, "kerfuffle," or "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." That is why I got annoyed everytime I heard Antonio Villaraigosa say, "The proof is in the pudding," over and over during his mayoral campaign.
2005-09-08 11:02:33
85.   Icaros
80 Doubt it.
2005-09-08 11:05:10
86.   Bob Timmermann
83
Jason Repko
2005-09-08 11:11:28
87.   JeffinTokyo
61. et al. I too am hopeful that the next Dodger manager uses sabermetrics to make the moves that give the Dodgers the best chance to win.

But, let's not forget, it is a Spectator sport. (This applies to radio too, since we can all visualize the games in our head, and of course watch the highlights later.)

For me, as a fan, I get my thrills from watching incredible athletes doing amazing things. I also enjoy watching marginal athletes (read Mike Edwards) defying the odds.

Baseball is enjoyable to me because of unpredicability, not in spite of it. If everything was predetermined, then what's the point of watching.

I marvel watching Cesar go deep into the hole to take a sure hit away, and his sub .302 obp never enters my mind.

I love it when Jason Repko jumps out of his shoes to hit an occasional homerum, even if logic (not to mention stats) tells me he's really a AAAer.

I love watching a soft tossing Maryland graduate pull the string on guys making 10 times his salary, even though he should probably be interning at Johns Hopkins Medical Center.

I love high heat, Beltre charing bunts and slinging ropes to first, Werth giving up his body to steal a homerun, Alex Cora getting to Clement on the 18th pitch.

I love the Dodgers because Pedro Guerrero cried before every road trip when he said goodbye to 'nicie and then wiggled his pinkie to her after every homerun.

I love the Dodgers because of scappy and/or nice guys like Chad Fonville, Lenny Harris, Dave Hansen, LenMike Harperson, Dave Sax, Rudy Law, Franklin Stubbs, Flamingo Brennen, and T-Bone Shelby. If we crunched the numbers, most of these guys probably shouldn't have been playing, but I got pleasure from watching and cheering for them.

Now, I am not burying my head in the sand and longing for old time baseball. As I said above, I want the Dodgers to field the best team possible. But, whether they do or not, I can stil find great satisfaction just from watching this beautiful game and enjoying all of the characters, malingerers, clubhouse lawyers, preachers, good guys, bad guys, and everyone in between who do things that I can only dream of.

2005-09-08 11:15:20
88.   Bob Timmermann
The DBacks are back ahead for 4-3.

boo.

2005-09-08 11:15:49
89.   Bob Timmermann
I'm prepositionally challenged this morning.
2005-09-08 11:16:47
90.   Adam M
"Injuries to the rotation, specifically to closer Eric Gagne, has contributed to the Dodgers' struggles this year." --caption to Morris article.

Anyone else notice the Dodgers are nominating Bradley for the Clemente Award? Any thoughts, comments, projected odds? Strangely, his recent "behavior" really is irrelevant to the criteria for the award, but bad pub is bad pub, and I'd be stunned if he won it.

2005-09-08 11:16:49
91.   Eric Enders
I don't think sabermetrics has particularly advanced my enjoyment of the game as a fan. My knowledge, yes. My enjoyment, probably not.

I've been reading Bill James since I was nine years old, but I think I would care about the game just as much if the sabermetric stuff didn't exist. I like watching people swing bats and hit balls and field them and pitch them. I like triples and diving catches and Fernando and Vin Scully and hating the Jints. I don't think any of that would be different had Bill James kept his full-time job in the Van de Kamp pork and beans plant.

If I can compare baseball to religion for a moment, I'm the sort of sabermetric person who, while I strongly believe in the righteousness of the movement, doesn't necessarily think all the nonbelievers are going to burn in hell. And who thinks the members of my own religion take it much too seriously sometimes.

2005-09-08 11:17:01
92.   ryu
87 ... and, of course Vin. Every time my brother and I hear Vin say "It's time for Dodger baseball" at the top of a broadcast, we get goosebumps. Last night he ran out from the kitchen just to catch Vin say that.
2005-09-08 11:18:41
93.   Eric Enders
I guess could have saved myself a couple of minutes of typing by hitting refresh and typing "Ditto # 87."
2005-09-08 11:19:44
94.   Bob Timmermann
91

Eric Enders, baseball's answer to Unitarianism.

2005-09-08 11:20:22
95.   jasonungar05
Tom Slick.
Tom Slick.
Let me tell you why,
He's the best of all the guys.

Tom Slick
Tom Slick
In the thunder boat grease slapper once he's on your tail.
He won't quit because you know there's no such word as fail to
Tom Slick
Tom Slick!

Lets not forget the SUPERCHICKEN either.

2005-09-08 11:20:35
96.   Icaros
I always liked LenMike Harperson.
2005-09-08 11:23:17
97.   JeffinTokyo
By the way, I would like to nominate Lt. General Russel Honore as the next manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers. Or the next President of the United States.
2005-09-08 11:24:29
98.   Eric Enders
"Flamingo Brennen"
-------

I have to admit, I didn't remember this guy.

Looking up his record, I can see why.

2005-09-08 11:24:54
99.   Eric Enders
I do remember Bill Brennan, though.
2005-09-08 11:25:10
100.   Bob Timmermann
Russell Honore couldn't become president because we wouldn't know how to pronounce his name.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-09-08 11:26:30
101.   Bob Timmermann
Bucs tie it up.

Yea....

2005-09-08 11:28:35
102.   Icaros
Bob still thinks he can overcome the inevitability of The Naccarato Prophecy.
2005-09-08 11:29:59
103.   Bob Timmermann
87

This post omits the name of the official Dodger Thoughts Obscure, yet Memorable Dodger (TM).

2005-09-08 11:31:33
104.   Icaros
Dustin Nippert makes me think of the character from "Bartleby, The Scrivener."
2005-09-08 11:31:36
105.   gcrl
95

you knew the job was dangerous when you took it...

2005-09-08 11:31:58
106.   Bob Timmermann
The Naccarato Prophecy and the DBacks bullpen are in constant conflict with each other. Sort of like God and Satan.

The Pirates announcers say that interim Bucs manager Pete Mackanin wants his team to bunt more.

2005-09-08 11:32:18
107.   JeffinTokyo
103. One of the Mike Ramseys? Jack Perconte? Greg Hansell?
2005-09-08 11:32:20
108.   Eric Enders
103

I forgot whether that was Black Mike or White Mike.

The former being an A's HOF catcher and the latter a key character in season 2 of The Wire.

2005-09-08 11:33:03
109.   DougS
Late to a thread again. The latest about Hochevar makes it sound like Boras is not in sync with his "advisee's" wishes (or even his best interests). It sounds like Hochevar wants to sign for a reasonable bonus, commensurate to his draft position but not record-setting, and then play some ball. Boras, however, holds out dreams that he can enhance his own reputation by getting him that record-setting bonus. And he's willing to play chicken with the Dodgers to get it. What does he have to lose, after all? If the Dodgers refuse, it's Hochevar's interests that will suffer, not his. Boras can always find another incubating bonus baby next season and try again. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Agents like Boras are not players' friends. They're in it for whatever they can get for themselves, and the players are just tools, to be used and discarded when they are no longer useful (yes, the clubs use and discard players, too, but agents are supposed to be advocates for the players). I actually feel sorry for Hochevar and anyone else in his position who winds up in the Boras stable.
2005-09-08 11:33:33
110.   Jon Weisman
103 - The Flamingo was a nominee, wasn't he?
2005-09-08 11:35:36
111.   Jon Weisman
110 - yes, he was, Jon.

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/014388.html

2005-09-08 11:36:12
112.   molokai
87To bad we can't recommend posts. I still miss Beltre charging those slow rollers and doing that little dance in the hitters box after he takes a close pitch. Don't miss him enough to pay him 15 million:)
2005-09-08 11:36:50
113.   Eric Enders
109 - While I agree with everything in that post, let's not forget that players sometimes "use" agents, too. It's a two-way street. See Sheffield, Gary.
2005-09-08 11:40:02
114.   Eric Enders
112 - In that vein, I almost miss that little Karros dance, where he'd check his swing and then spin backwards in the box to try and make the ump think he didn't swing.

Werth does kinda the same thing, which is why I had it on the brain last night, I think.

2005-09-08 11:41:22
115.   Bob Timmermann
I'm starting to enjoy Oscar Robles leaning into the right handed batters box every time he takes a pitch with two strikes. It's like he's trying to sell the umpire on the pitch being a strike.
2005-09-08 11:42:32
116.   Eric Enders
We should make a list of all these memorable player mannerisms for posterity.

Fernando rolling the eyes is an obvious one.

2005-09-08 11:42:34
117.   Icaros
I'm still not sure which one was Black Mike Ramsey and which one was White Mike Ramsey.
2005-09-08 11:43:41
118.   Jon Weisman
White was first
2005-09-08 11:43:43
119.   Eric Enders
Black Mike played only for the Dodgers. White Mike played for various other teams.
2005-09-08 11:46:02
120.   Icaros
I always liked how Mike Scioscia seemed to bang his elbows together when he was getting ready to swing. He gripped the bat like it was a yardstick.
2005-09-08 11:46:23
121.   Jon Weisman
Joe Sheehan today on Baseball Prospectus:

"A lot of the criticism of so-called "statheads" stems from the misguided notion that they don't appreciate the game on the field. Actually, most of us do appreciate it, and also understand that you need more than a series or a week or a month to reach conclusions about teams. The last two seasons have been a great lesson for me in just how wide an angle you need to take in evaluating what a team is, and the corollary to that is that trying to predict how good they will be in the short term is folly. We just don't know, and even if we could predict short-term ability, predicting what record might come of that ability is impossible. The game just doesn't work that way; the teams are too closely bunched, and it comes down to…well, it comes down to Craig Biggio turning around some 100-mph heat, or Braden Looper's inability to get lefties out, or some of your best players getting hurt at the wrong time.

"Performance analysis is a powerful tool for figuring out what happened and for building a winning team, but the time frames for applying the information stretch over seasons. Over days, over weeks, over a September pennant race, guys like me take a back seat to the people on the field. That's dissatisfying for someone who wants to have answers, or for someone like P.B. who's asking for them, but it is also the thing that keeps the game fresh. If the Astros couldn't surprise us and the Mets couldn't disappoint us, what would be the point of watching? "

2005-09-08 11:47:16
122.   Jon Weisman
Does Glenn Burke's preference for raising his hand upward to give five instead of keeping it down low qualify as a mannerism?
2005-09-08 11:47:56
123.   Jon Weisman
Pedro Guerrero's post-homer finger-wink, of course.
2005-09-08 11:48:07
124.   gcrl
116
one i will never forget is the way garvey would prep in the batter's box - lifting his feet slightly and half-swinging his bat at a 45 degree angle through the strike zone.

not as ocd-like as nomar's ritual, but something i can recall clear as day.

and then there was carlos perez, and to a lesser extent, jose lima...

2005-09-08 11:48:14
125.   Bob Timmermann
They were both Michael J. Ramseys. White Mike's middle name was Jeffrey. Black Mike was James.

White Mike has a World Series ring from the 1982 Cardinals.

The Dodgers traded Ted Power to Cincinnati to get Black Mike.

2005-09-08 11:49:37
126.   Icaros
And Mike Marshall (not Cy Young MM) used to open his hips toward the pitcher before his upper-body even moved. He swiveled like a He-Man action figure.
2005-09-08 11:51:38
127.   JeffinTokyo
Do I have to give up my Dodger Pepsi Fan Club membership card for admitting that I am in love with Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Dem. San Francisco)? "Oblivious, Denial, Dangerous." Was she talking about Jim Tracy?
2005-09-08 11:51:40
128.   Eric Enders
It only happened once, but I loved that parody of the forearm bash between Mickey Hatcher and (I think) Pat Screnar in the dugout during Game 5 of the 88 Series.
2005-09-08 11:52:39
129.   Icaros
128 That was great, especially how Hatcher shook his arm right after as if it really hurt him to do that.
2005-09-08 11:53:20
130.   Bob Timmermann
127
You do know that Nancy Pelosi is 65 years old.
2005-09-08 11:54:40
131.   gcrl
we also can't forget about candy maldonado and his habit of check-swinging at every pitch. or the way ron cey ran. or tommy falling asleep on the bench.
2005-09-08 11:55:07
132.   Bob Timmermann
My Congressman is Adam Schiff. I keep expecting to see Steven Hill's face when I see him on TV.
2005-09-08 11:55:34
133.   JeffinTokyo
130. Really? She looks pretty good. Is there a geriatric version of a man crush?
2005-09-08 11:59:39
134.   Yakface
133-...
2005-09-08 12:03:41
135.   Eric Enders
Two words: Mike Fetters.
2005-09-08 12:05:11
136.   Bob Timmermann
Barbara Boxer turns 65 in November. Dianne Feinstein is 72.

Something about Bay Area Democrats. They spend a lot of money on personal upkeep.

The women that is.

2005-09-08 12:06:56
137.   Bob Timmermann
5-4 Pirates in the bottom of the 8th.

Yea.

2005-09-08 12:07:03
138.   Eric Enders
Pelosi's daughter made a very funny documentary about Bush a few years ago. W even has an onscreen cinematography credit because she handed off the camera to him for a while.
2005-09-08 12:09:36
139.   JeffinTokyo
Dianne never worked for me. The hair I guess. Boxer is holding up nicely. In So Cal, who do we have? Loretta Sanchez?
2005-09-08 12:14:51
140.   Bob Timmermann
If you'r cruising for chicks among the Southern California House delegations, your options are:

Lois Capps
Maxine Waters
Diane Watson
Loretta Sanchez
Linda Sanchez
Hilda Solis
Lucille Roybal-Allard
Jane Harman
Grace Napolitano
Mary Bono
Susan Davis

2005-09-08 12:15:13
141.   Eric L
Mary Bono looks pretty good.
2005-09-08 12:17:30
142.   Jon Weisman
Tony Clark just homered, but I blame Craig Counsell.
2005-09-08 12:19:10
143.   Bob Timmermann
The Naccarato Prophecy looks it may triumph over the Arizona Bullpen today.

I shall be looking for other signs of the Apocalypse too.

My bigger fear is Icaros coming back down to L.A. to beat me up.

2005-09-08 12:19:48
144.   JeffinTokyo
140. Thanks Bob. Excuse me while I Google Image for a few minutes.

By the way, is there any doubt that this is a must sweep series this weekend?

2005-09-08 12:20:16
145.   Steve
Tony Clark homered again? This is ludicrous.

Mary Bono is universally considered #1 in all of Congress.

Loretta Sanchez is dull as a butter knife.

2005-09-08 12:20:56
146.   Bob Timmermann
144

"Must sweep" in the sense that we don't wish to see the fulfillment of the Naccarato Prophecy.

2005-09-08 12:25:49
147.   Bob Timmermann
Tim Worrell in to try and save it for Arizona.

How does Bob Melvin pick who comes in?

2005-09-08 12:26:08
148.   Icaros
My bigger fear is Icaros coming back down to L.A. to beat me up.

I'd never resort to physical violence. Besides, you'd have to be sitting down for me to reach your face with a punch.

I'll just have to eternally classify you as "full of it."

2005-09-08 12:26:11
149.   Eric Enders
146. But can she hold a candle to Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm?
2005-09-08 12:26:31
150.   Eric Enders
er, make that 145.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-09-08 12:28:22
151.   Steve
I will say that being #1 in Congress leaves you with very little in the way of competition.

Granholm v. Bono likely comes down to which side of the aisle you stand on.

2005-09-08 12:29:07
152.   Icaros
149 Granholm is not bad, in a Mrs. Brady sort of way.
2005-09-08 12:29:18
153.   Jon Weisman
Not impressed by Mary Bono. Any way we can get this conversation back to Mrs. Grover Cleveland?
2005-09-08 12:29:54
154.   Bob Timmermann
Mary Bono could become president some day.

Jennifer Granholm can't as she's one of them immigrant governors.

2005-09-08 12:30:49
155.   Bob Timmermann
153

But what about Barbara Mikulski?

2005-09-08 12:33:26
156.   Bob Timmermann
Mrs. Grover Cleveland

http://tinyurl.com/ctefx

She's the one on the right.

2005-09-08 12:33:42
157.   Jon Weisman
We're tied in Pittsburgh again
2005-09-08 12:34:40
158.   Icaros
I've decided that I definitely want there to be a female president before I die.

My political concerns pretty much resemble Homer Simpson's slogan when he ran for mayor:
"Can't somebody else do it?"

2005-09-08 12:35:02
159.   Jon Weisman
156 - That's not a good picture. You need one with her hair down.

Before people were "Taftian," were they "Clevelandian?"

2005-09-08 12:35:11
160.   Bob Timmermann
157

The battle continues....

2005-09-08 12:35:16
161.   Steve
Being the most beautiful in Congress is like being the 2005 San Diego Padres. Somebody has to win.
2005-09-08 12:35:54
162.   Jon Weisman
158 - Then just tune into ABC later this month, for Geena Davis is your Make-a-Wish come true!
2005-09-08 12:36:01
163.   Eric Enders
Jennifer Granholm is the second-most-likely beneficiary of any potential Schwarzenegger amendment.

I for one hope it doesn't come to pass. We can't allow a foreign spy who moved to the US at age 4 to hold that much power!

Granholm was once a contestant on "The Dating Game," FWIW.

2005-09-08 12:36:56
164.   Icaros
156 Hey, she wasn't bad.
2005-09-08 12:37:05
165.   Steve
Dustin Nippert and Brandon Medders? And two more years of Shawn Green? And Tony Clark singlehandedly winning them 8 games?

Good luck to all of that.

2005-09-08 12:37:09
166.   Bob Timmermann
Grover Cleveland lost a bit of weight during his second term.

The fact that he had an undisclosed cancer operation may have had something to do with it.

2005-09-08 12:38:15
167.   Eric Enders
I hear Mrs. James Buchanan was quite the looker
2005-09-08 12:39:22
168.   Icaros
When do you folks suppose they're going to start doing elections via "Who Wants to be the Next President?"
2005-09-08 12:39:53
169.   Steve
Some people say it was Mr. Mr. James Buchanan, but I can not confirm or deny those rumors.
2005-09-08 12:40:04
170.   Bob Timmermann
162
The Geena Davis as president show scares me. It has the potential to annoy me, although I will give it a shot.

Funny how they cast Donald Sutherland, a fairly liberal Canadian, as the evil conservative Speaker of the House.

2005-09-08 12:40:38
171.   Bob Timmermann
168

We already do.

2005-09-08 12:41:55
172.   Icaros
171 I know, but why hide things? Make it a show hosted by Ryan Seacrest and be done with it.
2005-09-08 12:41:57
173.   Eric Enders
"Some people say it was Mr. Mr."
----------------

Great, now I'm going to have those terrible songs from "The Cradle Will Rock" in my head all day.

2005-09-08 12:43:41
174.   Eric Enders
"Funny how they cast Donald Sutherland, a fairly liberal Canadian, as the evil conservative Speaker of the House."
-----

In fairness, Hollywood's supply of genuine evil conservatives dries up pretty quickly once you get past Heston and Fred Thompson.

2005-09-08 12:43:59
175.   Bob Timmermann
172

So after Vice President Cheney announces the results of the Electoral College ballots, he adjourns the joint session of Congress by going, "Cheney. Out."

2005-09-08 12:44:06
176.   Icaros
173 "Take, these broken wings...and learn to fly again, learn to live so free..."

How can you not like that?

2005-09-08 12:44:23
177.   Jon Weisman
Weather forecast for Jacksonville this evening, where the Suns are supposed to open the playoffs:

79 degrees, 40 percent chance of precipitation, winds at 22 mph.

Given what's going on offshore, that's relatively mild.

170 - Yes, I'm withholding my vote on it for a while.

2005-09-08 12:45:28
178.   Icaros
175 "Al Sharpton, you are the Weakest Link. Goodbye."
2005-09-08 12:45:31
179.   Bob Timmermann
174

The "West Wing" cast James Brolin, aka Mr. Barbra Streisand, as the Republican opponent of Martin Sheen.

Brolin is actually a bit more conservative than Sheen, but so are most people who aren't in the Communist Party.

2005-09-08 12:47:52
180.   natepurcell
i wish i could be here for suns thought, but there is a concert 100miles away that i cannot miss.
2005-09-08 12:48:18
181.   Icaros
Communism has moved from "downright terrifying" to "relatively charming" in my lifetime.
2005-09-08 12:49:01
182.   Icaros
180 Going to hear the non-threatening sounds of James Taylor?
2005-09-08 12:50:48
183.   natepurcell
Going to hear the non-threatening sounds of James Taylor?

ha, im afraid i will get made fun of here by the veteran dodger fans. ill list the band name anyways, i think some of the posters will appreciate them, but i dont know if they are present at the current moment:

curl up and die, ed gein, animosity

2005-09-08 12:52:37
184.   Jon Weisman
183 - Who, What, Wherefore?
2005-09-08 12:53:03
185.   Icaros
183 Kids...I remember going to see Morbid Angel, Dissection, and At The Gates.
2005-09-08 12:53:09
186.   Bob Timmermann
183

Say what? Some of us are turning 40 soon....

2005-09-08 12:53:19
187.   Penarol1916
Oh man, I take an online course on trust administration and I miss out on political hottie discussion. Oh the insight I could have added on how easy it is to take these ladies home from the Irish Times pub on Capital Hill.
2005-09-08 12:53:27
188.   Eric Enders
I've never heard of those bands, but I'd stay very far away from Ed Gein if I were you.
2005-09-08 12:57:34
189.   Kayaker7
183 Ed Gein...the notorious serial murderer/cannible. I can only guess what kind of music the band plays. :)
2005-09-08 12:58:14
190.   Eric Enders
Sounds like nate would have dug the band my college roommate was the drummer for. It was a death metal band featuring a topless girl onstage juggling torches.
2005-09-08 13:01:06
191.   natepurcell
cool names huh?
2005-09-08 13:01:11
192.   Jon Weisman
187 - Doesn't anyone go to the Four P's anymore?
2005-09-08 13:01:24
193.   JeffinTokyo
Bob, I finished my homework on SoCal Congresswomen. With all due respect to Reps Waters, Watson, Loretta Sanchez, Bono and Harman, I only looked up the ones I hadn't seen before. Here's my report:

Lois Capps: Like Mary Bono, she succeeded her late husband. She looks pretty good for 67 YO .
http://www.house.gov/capps/aboutlois.shtml

Linda Sanchez: Sexy in an Almaedo Saenz kind of way http://www.lindasanchez.house.gov/

Lucille Roybal-Allard: She represents Chinatown, Korea Town and Little Tokyo. If it were up to her, the CFC, Hee Seop and Nakamura would all be in the starting lineup. She represents herself well. http://www.house.gov/roybal-allard/

Hilda Solis: She's represented East LA since 2001. She has a nice smile. Very pleasant to look. Bet she hates her parents for giving her the name Hilda: http://solis.house.gov/en.us.home.shtml

Grace Napolitano. Great voting record, but looks like George Geobel in a wind storm
http://www.napolitano.house.gov/

Susan Davis: He website says she's been married for 38 years. Either she got married at the age of 5 or she has incredible genes. She's a San Diego Rep, but she went to UCB. So, either way, she's out of the loop for Dodger fans.
http://www.house.gov/susandavis/

So, if I had to choose one so cal rep to have a crush on, I'd take Hilda, despite her name.

If I had two ticket to the Dodger game, it would be Lucille.

If I needed a clutch homerun, Linda Sanchez.

2005-09-08 13:01:28
194.   natepurcell
http://www.ed-gein.com
2005-09-08 13:03:59
195.   Eric Enders
"Linda Sanchez: Sexy in an Almaedo Saenz kind of way"
---------------------

I'm pretty sure I don't want to know what that means.

2005-09-08 13:06:04
196.   natepurcell
Kids...I remember going to see Morbid Angel, Dissection, and At The Gates

thats cool, how long ago was that?

i kinda dig at the gates, although i dont listen to much swedish metal.

2005-09-08 13:06:51
197.   Bob Timmermann
The guys behind me at the game last night said about Olmedo Saenz.

"You can just look at him and see that he's a great hitter. I would be scared to pitch against him."

2005-09-08 13:07:27
198.   Steve
You mean...that was you, Bob?
2005-09-08 13:08:08
199.   Steve
174 -- Don't forget Gary Oldman.
2005-09-08 13:08:24
200.   Bob Timmermann
Steve, you were the guy who said?

"I saw Bill Dickey play catcher. He threw lefthanded."

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-09-08 13:10:15
201.   Steve
Bases loaded for Pitt. Two outs. Brandon Lyon just walked Ty Wigginton.
2005-09-08 13:11:06
202.   Icaros
196 '96, I think. Right before the singer/guitarist for Dissection went to jail for murder.

I used to sing (scream) for a band signed to Metal Blade Records, so I've actually played shows with bands like Morbid Angel, Deicide, Vital Remains, Immolation, etc.

2005-09-08 13:12:32
203.   natepurcell
what band was that icaros?
are you still into the metal scene?
2005-09-08 13:13:15
204.   natepurcell
argh i g2g, accounting 200 is calling me. be back in an hour and a half or so.
2005-09-08 13:13:56
205.   Yakface
174- What about Daniel day lewis or Bruce Willis?
2005-09-08 13:14:16
206.   Bob Timmermann
I really need this game to end. I want to go to Disney Hall to exchange some tickets.

Or take a nap.

2005-09-08 13:14:21
207.   Steve
Craig and Jack Wilson. Like Larry Storch and Ken Berry on F Troop.
2005-09-08 13:14:39
208.   Telemachos
174 All my recollections of Fred Thompson are heroic empowered bureaucrats, politicians, or commanders (Die Hard 2, Hunt for Red October, etc).

Fred Thompson for FEMA!

2005-09-08 13:16:21
209.   Sushirabbit
What a great place this is to waste too much time. As my company is sinking like the Titanic and I am thinking of how much money I could make in Iraq (who knew familiarity with middle eastern languages and poets would be financially good?), I escape back to DT and start hearing "blinded by fear" whilst oggling some female public servants of the state of California. I don't know what's scarier all the stuff that people post, or the fact that I enjoy it so much.
2005-09-08 13:17:53
210.   Sushirabbit
As amusing as this will sound after my previous post, Fred T is one of the few people that I would literally lay down my life for.
2005-09-08 13:18:16
211.   Icaros
203 Sanctus. We put out one album in 2000, then got dropped.

I'm not into it like I used to be. It's reached that "everything sounds the same" point for me, for the most part, but once in a while I'll stumble upon something cool.

I still listen to my old favorites from time to time, most notably Norway's avant-garde lunatics, Arcturus

2005-09-08 13:18:51
212.   JeffinTokyo
In my attempt to mention a cool band semi obscure, I will mention that in the mid 90's, I saw the Proclaimers at the Troubador. The Reid twins rocked. Their opening band were triplets in green shirts. No joke. Can't remember their name, but they were pretty good too.

And in case you're wondering, the Proclaimers were obscure when I first liked them. It was iun 1988, several years before Benny and Joon.

2005-09-08 13:21:54
213.   Eric Enders
205 -- Forgot about Willis. Didn't know about Day-Lewis; it's surprising, considering he's something of a Bohemian sort, not to mention the son in law of a communist.
2005-09-08 13:21:55
214.   Steve
The bunt works its magic again.
2005-09-08 13:22:05
215.   LAT
Have been at the last two games so I have not seen the last few threads. Although the national media is busy with Katrina and our Chief Justice, I trust DT readers gave Bob Denver the respect he so richly deserved. I hope there was much discussion over which episodes were best (much to Xei's disappointment). Personally, its a tie between the radioactive seeds and Thurston losing all his dough.

In any event, nice to see all the bases are being touched this morning: References to Kim Possible and Tom Slick--very nice Bob. And a thoughtful discussion over who is the hottest female politician.

BTW, sat in the Dug Out Club last night (first time). Stayed till they kicked us out of the bar. D.Lowe came in holding hands with Ms Hughes. If she ever runs for office she is hands down the hottest female politician. Odalis was there for a while. Very nice guy. Signed autographs and took pictures with fans.

I will say this about the Dug Out Club: I always hated Dug Out Club concept with its exclusivity. So much for that. I am ruined. Now when I go to the back of the plane and eat my peanuts, I will long for the one night I had in first class eating and drinking the good stuff.

2005-09-08 13:22:37
216.   Steve
213 -- But Bruce Willis doesn't make a villain sort. He's more the hero sort.
2005-09-08 13:23:26
217.   capdodger
192 Heck yeah. I live a block and a half from it so I head down there all the time. Mostly Friday nights and Saturdays after the cover for the music.
2005-09-08 13:23:50
218.   Kayaker7
I was into Primus and King's X. Now, I don't listen much to music. I just listen to NPR, whenever I'm in the car.
2005-09-08 13:24:02
219.   Steve
And I've never seen Daniel Day-Lewis at any VRWC meetings. Not even by videolink.
2005-09-08 13:25:02
220.   LAT
And while I'm posting, Steve throws in a Larry Storch reference. What a day here at DT!
2005-09-08 13:25:04
221.   Bob Timmermann
Is Carolyn Hughes appearing on FSN anymore? If she lost her job because of "l'Affaire Lowe", she and Derek better be really happy together.
2005-09-08 13:25:16
222.   Eric Enders
"If she ever runs for office she is hands down the hottest female politician."
-----------

In that case, she must look a whole lot better in person than on TV.

2005-09-08 13:25:35
223.   Jon Weisman
Forty-one players in the game so far, 22 for Arizona.
2005-09-08 13:27:02
224.   Jon Weisman
Here's one I'm afraid to ask: So what does liking Dar Williams from way back get me with this hip crowd?
2005-09-08 13:27:10
225.   LAT
222 Eric, I think she looks pretty good on TV, but yes better in person. Good body too.
2005-09-08 13:28:09
226.   Kayaker7
214 You know, instead of the expected runs matrix, they should look at the actual outcomes of real bunt attempts over the past few years. The expected runs matrix makes one believe that the bunt is executed perfectly every time. In my casual observation, it seems to have only about 50-60% success rate. Even if players "went back to fundamentals" and practiced the bunt all the time, I doubt the success rate would be much higher than...let's about 75%. To me, that is still too risky.
2005-09-08 13:28:23
227.   Jon Weisman
Diamondbacks lose! Prophecy be damned!
2005-09-08 13:28:30
228.   capdodger
Bucs keep the Naccarato Prophecy from coming to pass.
2005-09-08 13:28:53
229.   King of the Hobos
Cota singled in the winning run. The DBacks bunt failed, the Pirates, not so much
2005-09-08 13:29:30
230.   Kayaker7
Bucs win. Phew! Finally!
2005-09-08 13:29:33
231.   Bob Timmermann
Yea
2005-09-08 13:31:09
232.   LAT
231 Bob that "yea" was not really Tom Slick worthy. You must be ready for a nap:-)
2005-09-08 13:31:19
233.   Icaros
231 Say it like you mean it or don't say it at all.
2005-09-08 13:32:05
234.   molokai
Back to mannerisms but I will vote for Bono.
G Mota used to come in and just fire the ball at Beltre as hard as he could after he did his warmups. I remember last year some relief pitcher tried to do the same thing and airmailed it 10 feet over Beltre's head. He never tried it again. These are things you can only see while at the park which is why I go to the park, for the little nuances that TV just does not deliver.
2005-09-08 13:32:25
235.   Yakface
YAY
2005-09-08 13:34:10
236.   Bob Timmermann
As the Pirates announcer said, "You can raise the Jolly Roger!"
2005-09-08 13:34:45
237.   Jon Weisman
Oh - Pedro Astacio used to hang his pitching arm down low and wiggle it before going into his set position.
2005-09-08 13:35:02
238.   Eric Enders
224
I have about 5,500 mp3s on my hard drive. 30 of them by Dar Williams.
2005-09-08 13:35:45
239.   JeffinTokyo
The Derek Lowe things reminds me that in Japan, it is almost expected that female baseball announcers marry players and then retire from their TV gig. Kaz Ishii's wife, Ayako Kisa, is a case in point. She was the lead anchor on Pro Yakyu News on Fuji TV until Kaz reeled her in a few years ago. She speaks perfect English by the way, having spent several years in So Cal growing up. She has her own blog too. Unfortunately, she doesn't display her English skills on it, but it does have some nice pix: http://blog.so-net.ne.jp/ayako-kisa/
2005-09-08 13:36:03
240.   Yakface
So is this denial or acceptance? I need more knowledgeable people to describe this feeling to me.
2005-09-08 13:37:52
241.   Eric Enders
Does Kent always refusing to catch the ball on the around-the-horn play count as a mannerism?
2005-09-08 13:39:16
242.   Yakface
241-LOL
2005-09-08 13:40:50
243.   Yakface
I know most of you hate him, but Jason Phillips Glasses Push before he gets in the batters box. he kinda pushes his glasses on his nose then like makes a weird face, or when he gets thrown out his arms go completly straight its kinda funny.
2005-09-08 13:42:21
244.   Jon Weisman
240 - "Dodger Thoughts does not endorse the denial-acceptance dialectic."
2005-09-08 13:42:43
245.   Eric Enders
Don't forget about the Bradley-Choi Hallelujah Twist, or whatever it's called.

Sad to think we may have seen its final show.

2005-09-08 13:43:11
246.   JeffinTokyo
Darrell Thomas slapping his glove on his thigh worked for me. I think he had some others as well. Sorry if I misspelled his name. There's so many variations.
2005-09-08 13:46:14
247.   capdodger
243 Phillips also has that thing he does where he holds the bat under an arm, his glasses in one hand, and his helmet in the other while he wipes his face on his shoulders. I'm not sure if that counts, but it's funny to watch.
2005-09-08 13:48:15
248.   JeffinTokyo
The only Phillips mannerism I want to see is him picking splinters from the seat of his pants as he watches Choi at first Dioner behind the dish.
2005-09-08 13:50:10
249.   Eric Enders
The Sheffeld bat-wiggle, perhaps too obvious to mention.
2005-09-08 13:52:35
250.   Eric Enders
The way Jayson Werth runs, flaps down. On the one hand he looks like he's skipping along like a teenage girl, yet he also manages to look like the cockiest mofo on the field.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-09-08 13:57:23
251.   Yakface
Im suprised noones mentioned Gagnes game winning jackhammer FistPump.
2005-09-08 13:58:02
252.   Xeifrank
Now that Jose CruzJr is leading the team in OPS are we waiting for him to regress to the mean? vr, Xei
2005-09-08 13:58:30
253.   Langhorne
So much going on.

181 Communism was quaint before it was scary. There was a group of Christian Communists living in Oneida, N.Y. from the 1850's through the 1880's. They not only shared the work and the money, they also shared each other. They practiced what they called Complex Marriage which meant that every male member was considered married to every female member. You could sleep with anyone you wanted given the okay of a committee and the object of your desire. You just weren't allowed to fall in love with any one person. They were expected to love everyone equally. They supported themselves by making and selling silverware.
This is the origin of the Oneida Silverware Company, the biggest silverware manufacturer in the world. And now you know the rest of the story.

2005-09-08 13:59:18
254.   ryu
Pretty hot. http://tinyurl.com/6zghv
2005-09-08 14:00:58
255.   Eric Enders
252

Drew leads the team in OPS. Cruz is 4th.

There's gotta be a Kent joke in here somewhere about regressing to being mean.

2005-09-08 14:01:37
256.   Penarol1916
253. Sounds like my experience living on a kibbutz, only without the committee approval committee approval (or sleeping with anyone at all).
2005-09-08 14:02:13
257.   Eric Enders
Withdrawing post 255... doofuses at ESPN.com still haven't updated their stats from last night.
2005-09-08 14:04:30
258.   Xeifrank
215. haha! If you want to talk 1970s sitcoms and day time TV then I'm fine with that topic. I just think today's TV shows are 99% crap. The writing is crap. The acting is crap. Nobody is doing anything unique anymore now that Seinfeld is off the air. 1970s day time TV is a look back at the good ole days for me, as I plopped myself down in front of the TV on many sick days from school growing up. Favorite shows were Hogans Heroes, The Munsters, Adams Family, Gilligans Island, Get Smart, F-Troop and probably a few other classics that I'm missing. vr, Xei
2005-09-08 14:05:08
259.   Kayaker7
Cruz might stay hot for the rest of the season. What is left of it.
2005-09-08 14:05:12
260.   Langhorne
250 The Werth thing always cracks me up. Wasn't there a story last season about Werth skipping back and forth in the dugout? I swear I remember hearing something like that. And earlier this year there was a story about him drinking pepper sauce before a game to get his heart pumping.
2005-09-08 14:07:11
261.   Xeifrank
Dodger OPS leader from Yahoo stats has Cruz #1 now. He had quite the jump after last nights herculian performance. vr, Xei
http://tinyurl.com/8vn7y
2005-09-08 14:09:02
262.   King of the Hobos
Nakamura's entire game was full of unique mannerisms. Still one of the starngest batting styles I've ever seen

And for the Phillips mannerisms, running like a a large elderly women with his tongue out is always fun to watch

2005-09-08 14:11:33
263.   Kayaker7
262 He runs like Nell Carter. Ain't Misbehavin'.
2005-09-08 14:11:41
264.   Eric Enders
"Nobody is doing anything unique anymore now that Seinfeld is off the air."
--------

Clearly you don't get the same public access stations I do....

2005-09-08 14:18:24
265.   Bob Timmermann
258

Not this show. Far from crap.

http://tinyurl.com/96ew9

2005-09-08 14:19:31
266.   Yakface
Curb your Enthusiasm?
2005-09-08 14:23:42
267.   dzzrtRatt
'Curb Your Enthusiasm' and 'The Comeback' represent a new genre of highly uncomfortable comedy. You don't laugh at them as much as you squirm and wish they'd shut up for their own good. I don't foresee kids looking forward to staying home from school to watch them.
2005-09-08 14:24:17
268.   oldbear
Has anyone found out if Blake-Agassi will be an Instant Classic on ESPN? I'm still miffed I couldnt see the end of it.
2005-09-08 14:25:14
269.   Bob Timmermann
You can't be an Instant Classic unless ESPN owns the rights to the game. It may be a less than instant classic.
2005-09-08 14:25:29
270.   oldbear
267. I like Larry David as a writer. Not an onscreen personality.
2005-09-08 14:28:26
271.   dzzrtRatt
I might be older than some of you. I remember coming home to watch "Love that Bob," which featured a bevy of hot 1950s supermodels, and (to balance things out), "Father Knows Best," which had a dry humor that people have forgotten about. Jane Wyman was the ultimate sexy, sophisticated Mom. She even spoke in an English accent sometimes.
2005-09-08 14:29:03
272.   molokai
250
When he runs, Werth reminds me of the villains from "Brother from another planet" which is one of my favorite movies. It may have been Sayles 1st movie and he played one of the villains.
2005-09-08 14:30:23
273.   dzzrtRatt
Jane Wyatt, I mean. Not the first Mrs. Ronald Reagan.
2005-09-08 14:30:23
274.   Yakface
270-You dont like anything.

267- its not really a kids show being as how its TVMA, but the writing is genius and the acting is hillarious. Squirm? Why Squirm, I dont get it?

2005-09-08 14:32:09
275.   Eric Enders
272
The other villain being David Strathairn. And those two characters were later ripped off by "Men in Black."

Great comparison. It was Sayles' third movie, though, after Secaucus Seven, Lianna, and Baby It's You.

More than you ever wanted to know about John Sayles:
http://www.ericenders.com/sayles.htm

2005-09-08 14:32:29
276.   dzzrtRatt
274 I squirm because the characters are getting themselves into more hot water every time they open their mouths. It's not that I don't like these shows; actually they're great. But they're stressful to watch.
2005-09-08 14:33:00
277.   Eric Enders
275
fourth, he meant to write.
2005-09-08 14:35:07
278.   Jim Hitchcock
272 - I just rewatched that recently, Molokai...Sayles was actually pretty great in it. The bar scenes were terrifically funny.
2005-09-08 14:35:10
279.   Yakface
276-So you're saying you like the writing but it makes you squirm?
2005-09-08 14:35:48
280.   Kayaker7
272 Whatever it is, Tracy seems to like it.
2005-09-08 14:36:35
281.   Bob Timmermann
276

Although the situations are exaggerated, I doubt there are any of us who have not said something that put them in a bad situation and then in an attempt to get out just dug a deeper hole.

"Curb Your Enthusiasm" makes it an art form. I can only dream of acting like that.

2005-09-08 14:37:56
282.   molokai
275
MIB was based on an obscure comic book owned by Marvel. It may have just been coincidence or do you know for sure that the characters weren't like that in the comic book?
2005-09-08 14:40:06
283.   Jim Hitchcock
I read Eric's link on Sayles a couple if months back. Sayles has always stood at the top of the independants for me.

Lone Star is a particulary great movie.

Silver City, not so much.

2005-09-08 14:40:56
284.   molokai
278The bar scenes were great. The best part of Sayles movies or at least the ones I've seen is that all the characters seem so real even when he's dealing in fantasy or legends like Brother and Roan Inish.
2005-09-08 14:45:48
285.   Eric Enders
282 - It's just an assumption on my part, because they seem too similar for it to be coincidence.

IIRC, Sayles himself also mentions the eerie similarity on the commentary track for BFAP.

2005-09-08 14:46:57
286.   Eric Enders
"Ernie Banks!"
"Mister Cub!"
2005-09-08 14:49:25
287.   Sushirabbit
I have two Piazza mannerisms, the "sighing with your lips closed" as my wife calls it (I do it, too) and that silly thing he some times does where he looks at the baseball as if it were a crystal ball after an out.

Davey Lopes used to do this wierd thing with his mouth when he was taking a lead off, making his mustache dance around. He always made me laugh. So I remember it.

2005-09-08 14:50:31
288.   Eric Enders
FWIW, the Men in Black comic came out in 1990, so that too could have taken wing from "Brother."
2005-09-08 14:51:56
289.   Kayaker7
Matt Williams used to take a bite out of his lead shoulder, when he was getting ready to bat.
2005-09-08 14:52:38
290.   Sushirabbit
Oh yeah, Steve Garvey would make a great evil conservative.
2005-09-08 15:00:53
291.   Eric Enders
Oh, yeah, I remember that Matt Williams thing. Pretty weird.

I think we were mostly talking Dodger mannerisms, but I guess Williams can get a pass since his grandfather played for Brooklyn.

2005-09-08 15:01:41
292.   LAT
290 You mean this Steve Garvey?

DODGER LEGEND STEVE GARVEY

"I had a wonderful time with the Dodger teams of the 70's and 80's. I remember how the guys in the locker room used to kid me about my "perfect hair." Well, time has a way of changing things. Even before the reflexes go, you can start to lose hair. You see me seven years ago and today before by Bosley hair restoration. My hair may look the same from the front, but the top and back are going fast! When I played in the majors, I always hated losing and I hate losing now. I decided to step up to the plate and take action against my hair loss at Bosley. I had my hair restoration a few months ago. Watch for my results. Meanwhile, email me at stevegarvey@bosley.com and let me share my hair transplantation experience with you."

2005-09-08 15:03:35
293.   molokai
287
My best Piazza mannerism is how he used to crush the frickin ball. I'm still not over the trade. After 39 years of watching Dodger baseball he is by far my favorite all time Dodger. Probably something to do with being a HOF while being drafted lower then anyone in history. To bad the 1st base gig didn't work out for him.
2005-09-08 15:09:42
294.   Eric Enders
Mike Piazza was the first, and best, opposite field home run hitter I've ever seen. Guys consistently crushing homers to the opposite field is a pretty commonplace thing now, but wasn't at all before Piazza reached the majors. I'm firmly convinced he started that trend, and I still have yet to see a better guy at doing that.
2005-09-08 15:13:35
295.   Jim Hitchcock
Along with Steve, Mickey Hatcher has always been my favorite Dodger. Watching him play with all the joy and abandonment of a young boy always resonated with me. He will always be the everyman of baseball for me.

Remember when the Dodgers dropped him, and he said "hell, I offered to play for free"? To Micki, playing the game was everything.

2005-09-08 15:15:04
296.   Jim Hitchcock
But I still would like an explanation for the swim goggles in Hatcher's locker...
2005-09-08 15:15:13
297.   Xeifrank
I've been tinkering with lineups in my computer simulation program. So far without playing players out of their position the lineup with the best output has been... The program does not take into account LHP/RHP splits, just straight raw stats. This lineup has an average runs scored per game of 5.11291 with 100,000 game simulations. I left Saenz as a 1B only, which kicked Choi out of the lineup. You see a big drop off if you take Perez out of the lineup and put Edwards or Valentin in his place. If you think you have a lineup that would produce more runs send it to me and I will test it.
(Xeifrank@Yahoo.com)
3B - A.Perez
OF - J.Cruz
2B - J.Kent
OF - R.Ledee
1B - O.Saenz
OF - J.Werth
SS - O.Robles
C. - D.Navarro
Pitcher's spot
2005-09-08 15:18:39
298.   Eric Enders
296

The beauty of it is that there is probably no logical explanation -- just Hatcher being Hatcher. Same goes for the Slinky.

Does anybody else have that baseball card where Mick is pictured wearing a baseball glove that's about 3 feet long?

2005-09-08 15:18:45
299.   Kayaker7
297 What program is this?
2005-09-08 15:20:32
300.   Eric Enders
297 -

How about trying this one

1. Perez SS
2. Cruz RF
3. Kent 2B
4. Ledee LF
5. Saenz 3B
6. Choi 1B
7. Werth CF
8. Navarro C

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-09-08 15:23:56
301.   popup
#291, Eric, who is Matt Williams' grandfather?

#297, that line-up does not have that many total at bats except for Kent.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-09-08 15:25:19
302.   Eric Enders
301

Bartholomew Griffith

2005-09-08 15:28:20
303.   Xeifrank
300. I will try it, but as I said in my post I pigeon-holed Saenz at 1B. It should be a little bit better as you are basically talking about the difference between Robles and Choi. vr, Xei
2005-09-08 15:30:03
304.   popup
Thanks Eric. I thought I knew most of the Dodger players post 1947, but obviously I was mistaken about that.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-09-08 15:30:55
305.   Xeifrank
299. It's a program I wrote.
300. That lineup came up with 5.2326 so it is better.
vr, Xei
2005-09-08 15:32:59
306.   Eric Enders
popup

Williams' grandfather was before 1947 -- he played for Brooklyn in 1922 and '23.

2005-09-08 15:37:34
307.   Kayaker7
305 Wow, are you a programmer for Baseball Mogul? ;-)
2005-09-08 15:39:38
308.   popup
Thanks again Eric. How Matt Williams could have a grandfather who played in the 1920's is the next obvious question. I have heard that Werth's grandfather is Dick Schofield who I remember playing for the Dodgers in 1966. Seems like Matt Williams' grandfather should have played in the 50's.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-09-08 15:41:57
309.   Eric Enders
I dunno, Stan -- my grandfather was born in 1908, which means he could have played MLB by 1928 or so -- and Matt Williams is a lot older than I am.
2005-09-08 15:43:48
310.   Eric Enders
Question 1: Should the Dodgers sign Nomah to an incentive-laden one-year contract for 2006?

Question 2: If yes, should he play SS or 3B?

2005-09-08 15:45:54
311.   Kayaker7
310 His health is very questionable, in my opinion. I would not risk it, unless the money was right, like a couple of million. We have a big hole in 3B that we need filled. I think Robles has proven to be an adequate replacement at SS.
2005-09-08 15:48:42
312.   Jim Hitchcock
I'm only nine years older than Matt Williams, and my grandparents were born between the 1880's and '90's.

Helps that my parents were 39 and 41 when I was born, of course.

2005-09-08 15:49:26
313.   Xeifrank
310. As long as it is incentive laden and only for one year. I think a Perez/Nomar SS/3B combo with Robles as a backup at SS would be a decent 1 year stop gap as long as it didn't hinder the signing of an OFer like Giles or Matsui. vr, Xei
2005-09-08 15:50:10
314.   popup
Indians up 4-2

It makes me feel old to know that I remember the playing days of Gus Bell, Ray Boone and Dick Schofield who all have grandsons playing major league baseball right now.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-09-08 15:51:25
315.   LAT
311 Eric, just out of curiosity, are you asking this out of the blue or is there a recent article about this. I ask because last night, while at the game, I was talking to a Dodger front office employee who told me that last year Nomah was Depo's no. 1 target. According to this guy, the plan was to have him play 2B but they couldn't agree on terms and Kent was the back-up plan. I had never heard this before last night and now you mention Nomar. Coincidence?
2005-09-08 15:52:55
316.   Xeifrank
314. The Indians. MLB's best YOUNG team. Anyone disagree with that statement?
vr, Xei
2005-09-08 15:54:00
317.   Eric Enders
315 - No, I haven't heard anything, just seems like it might be a good fit. We need a stopgap infielder who's good but won't block our prospects. Nomar needs to prove himself again, so he won't be obnoxiously expensive, and with the Cubs he's already shown his willingness to sign an incentive-based one-year contract.
2005-09-08 15:55:37
318.   popup
#310, Eric an emphatic no. Nomar is far from my favorite player. I would say the same thing about bringing in Barry Bonds to play left even if he returns to being a premier hitter.

Indians 4-2 win.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-09-08 15:57:15
319.   Kayaker7
With all the sniping about Drew's fragility, it seems to me that Nomar's even more injury-prone.
2005-09-08 15:57:53
320.   regfairfield
316 Is it possible to dissagree with that statement?
2005-09-08 16:03:56
321.   Steve
310 -- yes. Third base.

320 -- The A's are pretty young.

2005-09-08 16:04:51
322.   Steve
315 -- That about Nomar was reported in a Sporting News. I don't remember when, but I read it while I was getting my tires done.
2005-09-08 16:06:56
323.   regfairfield
320 True, but not quite as young as the Indians.

If the White Sox don't make the playoffs somehow, I will send Mark Shapiro a six pack of something.

2005-09-08 16:07:36
324.   molokai
I'll pass on Nomar. I don't think he'll ever have a full quality season again. He is the Jody Reed of the 21st century after turing down that Bosox deal.

Indians are a good young team but the pitching staff still needs some work before I will agree. If you put the A's young pitching staff with the Indians young starting 8 then you'd have the best young team in baseball.

2005-09-08 16:11:37
325.   Steve
The question was limited in scope. As long as it was for one year and the base salary was low (incentive laden), then Perez and Robles can fight it out for the year at SS until JtD and LaRoche are ready.
2005-09-08 16:12:18
326.   popup
I have not seen them play but the Brewers have some good young players.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-09-08 16:28:35
327.   King of the Hobos
The Jacksonville game is well under way, 0-0 heading to the bottom of the 2nd. I can't get any feed from the normal webcast (southernguide.tv) so they might not be on video
2005-09-08 16:28:54
328.   Uncle Miltie
The Dodgers offered Nomar 3 years/$27 million in the offseason to play 2B/3B. Nomar turned it down, so the Dodgers instead signed Kent. It's looking like a pretty good move. I would not pay Nomar $1 million if he wanted to play SS. Maybe as a 3B, but the Dodgers would need a backup plan.
2005-09-08 16:32:06
329.   King of the Hobos
Jacksonville's line up for today:

Donavon CF
Abreu 2B
Weber RF
Laroche 3B
Loney 1B
Martin C
Guzman DH
Ruggiano LF
Garcia SS

Billigsley pitching

Vero Beach is also under way, deciding game of a 3 games series

Hoffman CF
Dewitt 3B
Kemp RF
Raglani LF
Dunlap 1B
Rohan SS
Paul DH
Bellorin C
Bruce 2B

Tiffany pitching

2005-09-08 16:40:24
330.   Monterey Chris
Barry Bonds has scheduled a press conference for 5:30 this evening.
2005-09-08 16:43:27
331.   King of the Hobos
Kemp gave the Dodgers an early 1-0 lead on a round tripper

The Suns have 1st and 3rd, no outs, bottom of the 3rd, still 0-0

2005-09-08 16:48:16
332.   Vishal
hey xei, i'm not going to pretend that antonio perez can play shortstop. could you try this one for me?

3B - A.Perez
OF - J.Werth
1B - H.Choi
2B - J.Kent
OF - J.Cruz
OF - R.Ledee
SS - O.Robles
C. - D.Navarro
Pitcher's spot

2005-09-08 16:49:47
333.   King of the Hobos
I lost my audio feed, only to regain it as the Suns had the bases loaded, 1 out, and a run in. A Weber sac fly just scored another, 2-0 Suns
2005-09-08 16:52:18
334.   Vishal
323
average age, oakland: 28.5
average age, cleveland: 28.6

source: ESPN Team Roster pages

regardless of the decimal, they're both around the same age, and they're both good teams.

2005-09-08 16:53:43
335.   King of the Hobos
332 The 2004 Vegas manager seemed to have no problem with Perez at SS. I don't understand everyone's fear of him at SS, he played there throughout the minors. He had barely played any 3B before this season (played some for Tampa Bay in 2003), that's why he is having problems there. He wasn't considered a great SS, but not as bad as he supposedly is at 3B
2005-09-08 16:57:05
336.   Xeifrank
332. That lineup is good by Jim Tracy standards, but still quite a ways below the best we've seen. It averaged: 5.02358
runs per game. Thanks for the input.
vr, Xei
2005-09-08 16:59:33
337.   Xeifrank
336. Tracy's tuesday night lineup garnered approximately a 4.05 rpg and the wednesday lineup was upgraded to about a 4.5 rpg. We have hit 5.1 and 5.2 with DT made lineups tonight. vr, Xei
2005-09-08 17:03:16
338.   Vishal
336well, it makes sense that taking robles out having saenz/perez as the left side of your infield would SCORE more runs, but the dropoff in defense would negate that .1 or .2 run difference, no? i mean, saenz is even less of a third baseman than perez is a shortstop, right?

ps. thanks for plugging it in for me.

2005-09-08 17:09:29
339.   Xeifrank
338. The following lineup has Robles at SS and APerez at 3B and scored over 5.1 rpg. Similiar personnel as yours, just possibly ordered a little wiser. vr, Xei

3B - A.Perez
OF - J.Cruz
2B - J.Kent
OF - R.Ledee
1B - O.Saenz
OF - J.Werth
SS - O.Robles
C. - D.Navarro
Pitcher's spot

2005-09-08 17:12:42
340.   Xeifrank
339. Actually has Saenz in for Choi and gives you a fractional more runs. I know in reality Saenz can't play every day. But if you take Saenz out at 1B, there is really no reason other than to give J.Phillip's goggle company some free air time, to have Phillips start ahead of Choi at 1B when Saenz is sitting. Especially when facing a RHP... but haven't we already beaten that horse to death, and some are probably seeking counseling. Steve? :) vr, Xei
2005-09-08 17:22:38
341.   Vishal
yeah, my lineup had choi in at first just on principle. platoon him at the very least.

choi might be marginally worse than saenz offensively at this exact point in time, but he should be the starter. plus saenz has more value than choi off the bench.

2005-09-08 17:32:31
342.   Xeifrank
341. I agree. Choi should be given every opportunity to show what he has so we can make a decision about his future with the club. I am probably the 489th person on this site to make this type of statement.
vr, Xei
2005-09-08 17:33:10
343.   King of the Hobos
Tiffany seems to have lost some control. Has given up 5 walks in 4 IP, yet has 5 Ks as well. He's also pitching a no hitter through 4. Still 1-0 Dodgers
2005-09-08 17:35:04
344.   King of the Hobos
343 Missed some Ks, Tiffany actually has 7 Ks in 4IP to his 5 BBs
2005-09-08 17:36:27
345.   Steve
342 -- Decision's already been made. This is another one of those issues where once you understand acceptance, the consequences flow naturally.
2005-09-08 17:42:31
346.   ryu
Hey Xeifrank, just curious: what kind of formula do you use to calculate runs/game in your simulation program?
2005-09-08 17:44:33
347.   sanchez101
seems like tiffany's control really fell apart over the last month.
2005-09-08 17:46:59
348.   molokai
Didn't Tiffany throw a 5 inning no no in his last start in which he walked 7 and k'd 9?
If he is still throwing a no no tonight after 4 innings that would give him a nine inning no no with 16 k's and 11 walks. Looks like the hitters are either striking out or walking.
2005-09-08 17:47:38
349.   molokai
How is the Sun game coming?
2005-09-08 17:50:41
350.   King of the Hobos
349 Very similar to the Dodgers game, except fewer walks (3) and Ks (7) in 2 more IP. Billingsley is at around 115 pitches in 6.2 IP, so he will not get the no hitter
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-09-08 17:51:17
351.   sanchez101
Seems as if tiffany has turned into a TTO pitcher lately. His last starts have features lots of K's, walks and homeruns.

The suns are up 2-0 last time i checked on the Minor league scoreboard. I really want to be watching it, but i cant say why.

2005-09-08 17:52:56
352.   King of the Hobos
350 was too cryptic, Billingsley now has pitched 7 innings with no hits, but he's done (approaching 120 pitches). The offense scored 2 runs in a rally, haven't done much else
2005-09-08 17:53:41
353.   molokai
350
Curious that Guzman was a DH and not the SS in a playoff game. Doesn't sound like the manager has a lot of confidence in his defense or is he hurt?
2005-09-08 17:55:19
354.   molokai
Jon won't let us talk about no hitters but if he's done I guess we can say he just pitched a 7 inning no hitter in a playoff game. That is beyond cool.
2005-09-08 17:55:37
355.   LAT
330 Chris, where do you see this I can't find mention of it anywhere. Do you know what he said?
2005-09-08 17:56:20
356.   King of the Hobos
Both games are official, but neither have had anything more than drizzle that I've heard. Tiffany didn't give up any walks in the 5th, so he's still at 5/7 BB/K
2005-09-08 17:58:49
357.   Uncle Miltie
353- he's not a good defensive SS (though don't tell oldbear)
2005-09-08 18:00:57
358.   King of the Hobos
Hoorelbeke in for Tiffany in the 6th. He's not doing so good, he's even wilder than Tiffany. Man on 2nd, no outs, and Hoorelbeke is having a hard time throwing strikes (ground out, man to 3rd as I type)
2005-09-08 18:01:55
359.   King of the Hobos
Broxton in for Billingsley in that game
2005-09-08 18:02:11
360.   molokai
Yeah I know he's nothing special on the defensive side but it is strange to play SS all season but not in a playoff game.
2005-09-08 18:03:49
361.   King of the Hobos
Hoorelbeke gave up a hit finally, game tied
2005-09-08 18:06:04
362.   King of the Hobos
WP for Hoorelbeke, no idea why he's still pitching, he's not throwing anything over the plate (the pitches are moving a lot, more than a lack of control)
2005-09-08 18:07:41
363.   King of the Hobos
Broxton kept the no hitter alive, Suns up 2-0 in the bottom of the 8th
2005-09-08 18:09:18
364.   HomeDePo
have you noticed that when there are dodger game highlights on ESPN, they only show the bottom of the ninth and say something like: "That is all that you need to know." But when the Red Sox or Yankees play there is a whole 30 minute highlight reel. They also spend more time showing Jim Edmonds that they do the Dodgers. Biased. Biased. Biased.
2005-09-08 18:12:05
365.   King of the Hobos
Hoorelbeke just gave up a double, Cardinals up 2-1. Dodgers need to win or they're eliminated
2005-09-08 18:15:18
366.   King of the Hobos
Jarod Plummer in to save the Dodgers. He was decent as a starter for the Catfish, but better as a reliever for the Dodgers
2005-09-08 18:15:27
367.   molokai
Bad managing even at single A?
2005-09-08 18:16:46
368.   b1ued0dger
No hitter!!!!
2005-09-08 18:16:47
369.   King of the Hobos
Plummer gets a quick out. Too bad he didn't come in sooner. The Dodgers have 4 innings to score, they have 7 hits in 5 innings, so they're stranding everyone
2005-09-08 18:17:23
370.   sanchez101
In espn's defense, it was getting late in bristol by the time the game ended, and, more importantly the Giants and Dodgers are sub-.500 teams.
2005-09-08 18:18:26
371.   King of the Hobos
368 Too bad I was listening to the Dodgers game, but a no hitter is a great way to start the playoffs. Broxton and Billingsley can handle the pressure
2005-09-08 18:20:01
372.   HomeDePo
370 - this is not the first game that this has happened. the last time they showed good highlights was when we played their pet, the young and mature Marlins.
2005-09-08 18:23:38
373.   King of the Hobos
The Dodgers drilled some balls, but some wind blowing in knocked them down. They have 3 innings left to tie it
2005-09-08 18:28:00
374.   molokai
Nate will be very upset that he missed a playoff no no to go to a concert:(
2005-09-08 18:30:10
375.   King of the Hobos
Plummer gave up a hit, then a bunt where both Plummer and Dunlap fielded it, safe at first. Comebacker for an out at first, then IBB. Deep fly ball to the warning track, 3-1 Cards
2005-09-08 18:31:39
376.   Uncle Miltie
374- a prospect concert?
2005-09-08 18:32:58
377.   King of the Hobos
375 Strike out to finish the inning. The Dodgers need 2 runs in 3 IP, something that's been hard for them lately
2005-09-08 18:40:45
378.   King of the Hobos
Hoffman and Dewitt have back to back doubles, Dodgers now down 3-2. Kemp is up...
2005-09-08 18:43:26
379.   King of the Hobos
Kemp drilled a linedrive at an OF. 2 more innings, although Hoffman, Dewitt, and Kemp aren't guarunteed ABs
2005-09-08 18:55:56
380.   Mark
Scott Boras deserves the Abu Ghraib treatment. That is all.
2005-09-08 18:55:57
381.   King of the Hobos
Plummer gave up 2 hits (and 2 Ks) so they brought in Alexander. He gave up a hit, 4-2 Cardinals
2005-09-08 19:05:14
382.   HomeDePo
380 - hey i am going to be sitting near him on sunday, any message i should give him?
2005-09-08 19:07:07
383.   Bob Timmermann
Game on in San Diego! The NL West Pennant race in action!
2005-09-08 19:12:50
384.   Vishal
yeah, tell him 3 million is plenty. and that weaver sucks. :)
2005-09-08 19:13:33
385.   Eric Enders
Alas, Ogden starter Alvin Hayes apparently didn't get the memo today. It's in the fifth inning and he's already allowed two hits.

Raptors losing 1-0.

2005-09-08 19:18:04
386.   Mark
382 - You could always pull the same stunt that some enterprising fellow did to Vice President Cheney today.
2005-09-08 19:21:05
387.   King of the Hobos
385 It's not a playoff game, so he's being defiant.

Vero Beach has 3 outs left, down 4-2. Paul, Bellorin, and Bruce due up, after Paul, no power until Dewitt

2005-09-08 19:27:41
388.   King of the Hobos
Paul singled, the Bellorin grounded into a double play. Cole Bruce swings on the first pitch, and the Vero Beach season has gone the way of the GCL Dodgers, Catfish, and 51s
2005-09-08 19:34:11
389.   Bob Timmermann
Padres lead the Rockies 1-0 in the 2nd are poised for more.

Cubs got 3 in the top of the 1st in San Francisco, but Winn homered to get one back and the Giants are still batting.

2005-09-08 19:38:57
390.   DaveP
360 - Guzman has a sore shoulder. Doubt you'll see him back in the field at all during the playoffs.
2005-09-08 19:40:04
391.   Bob Timmermann
2-0 Padres after 2.

3-1 Cubs over the Giants after 1.

2005-09-08 19:46:42
392.   Nagman
Peavy has been scratched from his scheduled start this weekend due to a sore shoulder. With Dodger killer B Lawrence going tonight, the Dodgers won't see Peavy, Lawrence or Eaton this weekend.

Is it Houlton-Lowe-Penny for the Dodgers?

2005-09-08 19:47:36
393.   Nagman
392 oh yeah, not that it matters...
2005-09-08 19:50:32
394.   DaveP
with tonight's performance, Billingsley has now allowed only 3 runs in his last 45.2 innings.
2005-09-08 19:53:04
395.   Bob Timmermann
Houlton-Lowe-Penny is what Steiner said yesterday.

The Dodgers face Williams Friday. Saturday would be a fill in. Maybe Stauffer or Astacio if he's off the DL. Sunday should be the return of Chan Ho Park.

And 40 years ago today....

http://tinyurl.com/bbfv2

2005-09-08 19:55:52
396.   Steve
70 years ago today I saw Bill Dickey throwing lefthanded. Of course, I've already told Bob all about it.
2005-09-08 19:56:22
397.   King of the Hobos
395 I read Oxspring or Hensley, not sure though. The Williams-Houlton game should be the toughest, if we win that, a sweep isn't impossible...
2005-09-08 19:58:15
398.   Nagman
They said Oxspring or Hemsley will probably get the start.

San Diego U-T said in this morning's paper, before it was confirmed he was scratched, that Peavy is getting extra rest "... to ensure his tender shoulder is ready for the playoffs." They also mentioned Eaton "...would probably start the first or second game of a divisional playoff series next month..."

2005-09-08 20:12:22
399.   Bob Timmermann
396

The worst part of it Steve was that your wife was patiently listening to you and believing everything.

I think she went home and wrote a letter to Senator Jack Snow.

2005-09-08 20:15:10
400.   Bob Timmermann
Brian Lawrence has held the Rockies scoreless through 5 1/3. Padres lead 2-0.

Cubs lead 3-1 over the Giants after 3.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-09-08 20:21:24
401.   King of the Hobos
Holliday triples in 2, game tied
2005-09-08 20:21:35
402.   Bob Timmermann
Matt Holliday triples in two to tie it up at 2-2 at PETCO.
2005-09-08 20:32:28
403.   regfairfield
Does anyone know where I can find a stat like sacrifice bunts attempted?
2005-09-08 20:40:43
404.   Bob Timmermann
If the Giants lose tonight, the Dodgers move in to a tie for second. If the DBacks had won earlier, the Dodgers would now be in fourth.

The standings are so fluid and the pennant race is so heated!

2005-09-08 20:44:47
405.   Uncle Miltie
Anyone watching the Giants game? Zambrano is a BIG baby. He jumps up and down and has Weaver like body like with Lima's energy. Not good.
2005-09-08 20:47:03
406.   Bob Timmermann
Zambrano looks a lot bigger than Weaver. And he whines more than Weaver too.
2005-09-08 20:59:10
407.   Nagman
I just read thru all of today's comments and was thoroughly entertained.

Regarding the mannerisms, I was always amused at how Scioscia, after going after a foul ball would turn his catching helmet forward prior to going back to the box and then turn it backwards. Seemed like a lot of work for a 10 step jog.

2005-09-08 20:59:15
408.   Xeifrank
346. If you are still online, the runs per game are not calculated with a formula. They are calculated using a computer simulation to simulate 100,000 games and average runs scored per 9 innings.
vr, Xei
2005-09-08 21:11:03
409.   DaveP
Scott Erickson's Tahoe "mansion" on Travel Channel right now. Baseball has been very good to Mr. Erickson.
2005-09-08 21:15:53
410.   Bob Timmermann
5-3 Cubs in the 7th.
2005-09-08 21:25:46
411.   Steve
The Travel Channel?
2005-09-08 21:40:56
412.   Xeifrank
Think Bob is worried?
http://tinyurl.com/89bph
vr, Xei
2005-09-08 21:44:56
413.   Bob Timmermann
Why would I be more worried than anyone else who lives in the area?
2005-09-08 21:45:20
414.   King of the Hobos
Padres win on a walkoff double by Fick. Dodgers will only be 4 back if they sweep...
2005-09-08 21:47:43
415.   Xeifrank
413. I thought you made a post worrying about the big one hitting. vr, Xei
2005-09-08 21:51:24
416.   Jim Hitchcock
415 - Planes falling on his head, XF...not earthquakes :)
2005-09-08 21:51:30
417.   LAT
From Yahoo's Fantasy: Favorable Matchups | Hot/Not:

J. Cruz LAD Career vs W. Williams
.444 AVG, 3 RBI, 2 HR (9 At Bats)

2005-09-08 21:54:10
418.   Bob Timmermann
I worry about everything, so it's hard to figure just what in particular is the highest on my hierarchy of anxieties at any given moment.

I worry about getting ovarian cancer.

2005-09-08 21:58:56
419.   Jim Hitchcock
That's pretty weird, Bob.
2005-09-08 22:00:11
420.   Jim Hitchcock
Cubs win...Neifi hot dogs...
2005-09-08 22:00:20
421.   Bob Timmermann
Giants lose! Dodgers back in second place!
2005-09-08 22:01:00
422.   Bob Timmermann
San Diego magic number - 18
2005-09-08 22:01:08
423.   Steve
[sits down, pad in hand]

Und, how do you feel about zese anxieties?

2005-09-08 22:20:56
424.   Bob Timmermann
Sorry, only Jon is allowed to use this site to improve his psychological well-being.
2005-09-08 22:21:58
425.   Steve
That will be $150. Please pay the desk on the way out.
2005-09-08 22:30:08
426.   Bob Timmermann
Hey, my hour was only 20 minutes!
2005-09-09 00:23:06
427.   dzzrtRatt
417 Rats, that means Tracy will play Jason Phillips in right field.
2005-09-09 00:53:44
428.   Eric L
As bad as this season has been, reading stuff like this gives me a ton of hope for the future...

http://tinyurl.com/cvd3b

It may be propaganda, but I'll take it.

2005-09-09 01:01:36
429.   natepurcell
thats great. i come back from the show and i found out billz and the bull combined for a no hitter in their game.

just effing great!

2005-09-09 01:09:03
430.   natepurcell
unbelievable. read hensons new article on the hoch/boras/dodgers mess. its literally, a soap opera. wow. jon, you need to make it your post for tomorrow.
2005-09-09 01:26:59
431.   natepurcell
actually, i like this version better. better quotes. apparently, boras threatened to sue hoch, the dodgers and the other agent firm if hoch signed that contract with the dodgers.
http://www2.presstelegram.com/sports/ci_3013180
2005-09-09 02:21:56
432.   fanerman
Somebody tell me all the fire DePo talk is just sportswriters and mass media blah blah and there are no real rumors floating around. Please? Sure DePo isn't perfect, but I'd rather have him over the Stonemans and the LaMars and the whatevers.
2005-09-09 06:58:43
433.   Eric Enders
From the latest edition of "Ask BA":

"Dodgers lefthander Scott Elbert put up very good stats this season in low Class A. Does he have the makings of a potential ace, and how do his stuff and ceiling project? Also, how does the Dodgers' trio of Class A pitchers Elbert, Blake Johnson and Chuck Tiffany compare to their Double-A trio of Chad Billingsley, Jon Broxton and Justin Orenduff?

-- Marty Rafter
Schweinfurt, Germany

Elbert is a 20-year-old lefty with effortless arm action, a consistent 88-92 mph fastball that tops out at 94 and a slider that can be a plus pitch at times. All that gives him the makings of an ace, though he's a long way from realizing that potential. Johnson has similar stuff, though he's a righthander and lacks stamina at this point. Tiffany, who's a level ahead of those two in high Class A, has average stuff across the board but a lot of moxie to go with it. He projects more as a reliever than Elbert and Johnson do.

Billingsley and Broxton, already in Double-A at age 21, have better pure stuff than those three and they're also more polished. Billingsley has a lively 92-94 mph fastball and two plus breaking pitches, while Broxton has hit 96-98 mph out of the bullpen and complemented his heat with a good slider. Orenduff doesn't overwhelm hitters like they can, but he advanced to Double-A in his first full pro season thanks to the sink on his 88-92 mph fastball and his ability to locate his pitches.

Ranking them in order of prospecty goodness, I'd go Billingsley, Broxton, Elbert, Orenduff, Tiffany, Johnson."

2005-09-09 08:07:57
434.   molokai
And he didn't even mention Greg Miller who may have the best stuff of all. Throw in Kuo and E Jackson and that is almost a complete pitching staff. How many will make it to the bigs by 2008 and a Dodger roster? That should be a nice subject for another day.

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