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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Dodger Thoughts Comprehensive, Non-Definitive 2005 Minor League Report
2005-09-18 17:30
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Hi. On the following two threads, I've attempted to provide a snapshot of every minor leaguer in the Dodger organization - everyone on the AAA Las Vegas 51s, the AA Jacksonville Suns, the High-A Vero Beach Dodgers, the A Columbus Catfish, and the Rookie-level Ogden Raptors and Gulf Coast League Dodgers. It was beastly - 174 players in all (Ericksons not included) - but I hope you find it of some worth.

I grouped the players by position and then by age, and then ordered them according to a very subjective perceived distance from Los Angeles – not according to who has the most ability or greatest potential – so please don't get caught up in the order. These articles are primarily meant to provide a reference guide or introduction – not a projection of who will do what. For one thing, I'm woefully shy on defensive information that would better inform any rankings.

In addition, there's a lot of position movement in the minors. I did my best to put players with their proper position – or put them under "Utility" if there's any doubt. But it's possible that a few should have been listed in different places. I'm open to corrections.

Beyond that, hope you enjoy these brief minor league hellos in the following threads. If you have any comments, you can leave them on this thread, so that everyone's conversing on the same page.

And away we go ...

The Dodger Thoughts Comprehensive, Non-Definitive 2005 Minor League Report
Part 1 - Hitters
Part 2 - Pitchers

Comments (283)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-09-18 17:47:44
1.   Suffering Bruin
Holy cow.

Thanks comes a little short but... thanks.

2005-09-18 18:03:32
2.   oldbear
Justin Ruggiano has become my favorite Dodger prospect. We havent had any legit OF'er come out of the system in a LONG time.

I think Ruggiano has the best chance of any. I believe his 25th round draft status plays a part agains him.

You cant argue against his numbers though.

2005-09-18 18:09:07
3.   Bob Timmermann
At least we know now that Andy Van Slyke's wife traveled with the Cardinals during the 1985 World Series.
2005-09-18 18:19:00
4.   Bob Timmermann
If Liam O'Flaherty ever made it up to the Dodgers, Vin Scully would be beside himself in joy.

Now there would be a name he would love to say.

2005-09-18 19:00:48
5.   molokai
Thanks Jon, that was a great report. The biggest news I got from that was the report
of Casey Hoorelbeke being the son of the original lead singer, drummer and founder of Rare Earth. For some reason I always liked that band. One of the few white acts signed by Motown if I remember correctly. Maybe in 2006 we can just "celebrate".

Matt Kemp is my outfield hope but Ruggiano has a chance to be a late blooming Jason Bay.

2005-09-18 19:12:39
6.   D4P
You just made natepurcell's day.

Check that: life.

2005-09-18 19:43:28
7.   Tommy Naccarato
Now that some of you are finally accepting that the season is over....(It was over for me in mid May, actually February or March when I predicted a SD, SF, Arizona, LA, Colorado final standings for the end of this season. My W/L was all screwed-up though. This team had "injury" written all over it.)

YOUR 2005 Los Angeles Dodgers.......(A retrospective)

--"As old as I am, I had the jitters," said Kent, who will bat cleanup. "I'm excited to be here and I'm trying to make friends and make a good impression. I want them to know, even though I've got a locker stuck in the corner, it doesn't mean I shouldn't be talked to."

(*Naccarato Note: Yes, and you forgot to mention about how excited you were when you heard that Milton Bradley was going to vote for you as Team Leader 2005)

--Dodgers owner Frank McCourt addressed the club before the first full-squad workout, stressing the franchise's rich tradition and setting the bar high.

"I talked about what it means to be a Dodger," said McCourt, entering his second year in charge. "It's a special jersey they put on. This being the 50th anniversary of the first Dodger world championship, I talked about all the history and the winning tradition that comes with the jersey and that our focus is on winning."

McCourt said his expectations for 2005 are high after winning a division title as a rookie owner in 2004 and having the roster overhauled in the offseason.

"I believe the Los Angeles Dodgers should be a world champion every year, and I know we won't win it every year, but that's the mind-set," he said. "We certainly have the talent to do that, we just need to come together as a team and develop the personality and character and chemistry that we're better. I'm very confident our players mean business this year."

McCourt reiterated that he believes the club has improved after a busy offseason of roster moves.

"We need to do a better job communicating with our fans and letting them know what our thinking is and what we're doing," he said. "The choices we made were in the best interests in the short and long term, but we could have done a better job bringing the fans with us. It's part of the learning process and I take responsibility."

"We can talk philosophically why we did some of the things. We balanced winning now with the future. We put together a team that can win this year without sacrificing the future in the least."

He said his biggest disappointment during the winter was not re-signing third baseman Adrian Beltre, but he said upgrading the starting pitching staff was, "mission accomplished."

(*Naccarato Note: This guy McCourt is as phoney as that snake oil salesman, "Mr. Haney" from Green Acres/Petticoat Junction/Hee Haw.)

--"God forbid something ridiculous happens, you have to have a plan in place,"--Jim Tracy

(*Naccarato Note: Trace, do you think it's about time to inact that plan?)

--Trainer Stan Johnston said even a mild sprain would take six weeks to heal 100 percent, but depending on MRI results Gagne's baseball activity might only be limited for "maybe a week." Gagne was examined by Dr. David Schafer, a fellow at the Kerlan-Jobe Clinic.

(*Naccarato Note: Thank God Gagne will only be out six weeks....Could you imagine if we had to rely on Brazo or Duaner to pick up his slack?)

--"I can tell [Erickson] is 100 percent committed. He came ready," Colborn told Gurnick. "His intensity is high and that speaks volumes about his desire. He's primed and ready to go."

(*Naccarato Note: This one was for Jon. I found it to be highly appropriate.)

--"We try to look at every player holistically in terms of runs created and runs prevented.

(*Naccarato Note: I can't help to think of J.D. Drew, Jason Werth, Cesar Izturis and Jose Valentin here. That's more then half the outfield and half the infield on the DL, or just plain worthless.)

Giving Depo some credit here, he also added: "That being said, we're very comfortable with Jeff (Kent) as a total player."

*Naccarato Note: Well there's a positive! Now here's a negative:

"Jolbert Cabrera was a guy who had been here, played many positions, was a known commodity," DePodesta said. "The major league staff said at the end of the day, 'We all like Jolbert – he's done some things for this club – but we think Jose might be a better fit for the way we're gonna use him.' "

(Naccarato Note: I completely applaude the aquisition of Jose Cruz Jr. In fact, I think of him being a Jolby-like player that has the same drive and devotion.

Rooting against him because his Dad completely ruled the Dodgers at every level is pure stupidity. I'll take the numbers of a Jose Cruz anyday, if a father & son could ever be compared. In fact, I find myself rooting more and more for Jose and would consider him a valuable component for the future. I can only hope he feels the same way about being in Los Angeles and playing for the McCourt family--all of them.)

"I was small enough in the book that it hasn't affected me at all," DePodesta said. "But people who, for whatever reason, were offended by the book or what it posits, definitely would like to see the people in the book fail – that became pretty clear through the course of last year. It hasn't necessarily changed my day-to-day.

"It did end up creating almost some factions within the game, whereas my contention all along is these things aren't black and white, they are gray. To me, it's about trying to find a way of marrying all this different information."--Paul Depodesta

(*Naccarato Note: Paul, did you ever think about approaching Bill James' publisher and see if they want to advertise the Moneyball book on the beautiful ribbon boards of Dodger Stadium? {they could proceed and follow the Tanya Roberts Las Vegas hotel ads} This could score big points with King Drew. Better yet, get Billy Beane on the phone and see if he can further point you in the right direction.)

2005-09-18 19:44:50
8.   Todd
To piggyback Bob's comment, yeah, I guess ---someone--- was happy that Jack Clark hit that home run.....who knows, maybe what comes around will go around. Amazing job Jon. I like the sounds of both of the outfielders who you said would be preferred by PDP and JT respectively....organization seems to well-prepared for the forseeable future.
2005-09-18 19:47:49
9.   Tommy Naccarato
Clairification: the Jose which he was taking about was Valentin, not Cruz. I think Cruz is much more valuable then Valentin.
2005-09-18 19:50:08
10.   Icaros
You're a year off, Tommy. The Jose referred to in the quote is Jose Hernandez, who the Dodgers kept over Cabrera in 2004.

Cruz and Valentin didn't come along until this season, 2005.

2005-09-18 19:53:01
11.   Tommy Naccarato
Of course, your entirely correct, but it was Jose Hernandez I was thinking of! (the mistake coming from looking up all of these usable quotes!)

There are just too many "J's"!

2005-09-18 19:59:54
12.   Bob Timmermann
While many of us remember Jose Cruz the Elder playing well against the Dodgers, he didn't play particularly all that much better against the Dodgers rather than anyone else in the NL during his career.

He liked California in general. He also hit well against the Giants and Padres.

Cruz the Elder hit just five home runs at Dodger Stadium.

Cruz the Elder had a lifetime line of 284/354/420.
Against the Dodgers, Cruz the Elder was 286/347/415.

If you look back at Cruz the Elder's numbers in Houston, he was remarkably consistent. Until he turned 39.

2005-09-18 20:06:09
13.   Tommy Naccarato
Bob,
In my memory, he always seem to come up with a big play against the Dodgers. Didn't he have something to do with the outcome of that 22 1/2+/- inning game where Jeff Hamilton pitched?

That game was absolutely brutal to watch. B-R-U-T-A-L!

2005-09-18 20:07:40
14.   Tommy Naccarato
In fact, it ranks right up there with that game where the Dodgers lost to Philadelphia after having like a 12-run lead in the 8th inning.
2005-09-18 20:09:16
15.   dzzrtRatt
Jon, a tremendous service.

Since I don't know as much about baseball as you do, I've created my own depth chart of names I would love to hear Vin Scully say.

Beau Dannemiller
Yosanddy Garcia
Mayke Cabrera
Ramon Troncoso
Casey Hoorelbeke
Jason Mooneyham
Liam O'Flaherty
Brian Sprout
Tydus Meadows
Cole Bruce
Trayvon Robinson
Guiseppe Norito
Steven Sapp
Dominique Lauren
Kengshill Pujols
Rotsen Gil
Christopher Westervelt
Kalen Gearhart
Chad Billingsley
Kale Garrison
Chuck Tiffany
Dimas Reina
Arismendy Castillo
Danny Muegge
Buddy Carlyle

and finally...

Daniel Batz

With names like these, I predict all of these players, regardless of talent, will find their ways to the major leagues. It's just like if you name your kid Itzhak Perlman, it's highly likely he will become a classical violinist, if you name your kid Jason Mooneyham, a bat and glove are in his future.

2005-09-18 20:23:10
16.   Bob Timmermann
I thought it would be interesting to see just what were the circumstances in Cruz the Elder's five Dodger Stadium dingers (mainly because the Sunday night game is a rout)

1) July 6, 1977 - Solo homer in the top of the 14th off of Mike Garman to give the Astros a 3-2 win. Both starters: J.R. Richard and Rick Rhoden pitched 10 innings.
Not wasting time...
2) July 7, 1977 - Cruz capped off a 3-for-4 night with a solo homer in the 8th off of Doug Rau. But the Dodgers won 7-4.

Then ...

3) September 20, 1983 - Cruz hit a second inning grand slam off of Burt Hooton as the Astros won 15-2. Cruz drove in 6 runs that day. Hooton was relieving Alejandro Pena and retired no batters and gave up three runs.

4) September 25, 1984 - Cruz hit a solo homer in the second off of Orel Hershiser. The Astros won 12-6.
5) September 26, 1984 - Cruz hit a solo homer in the sixth off of Fernando Valenzuela. The Astros won 3-1 on a 9th inning pinch hit double by Mike Richardt.

I won't go through all of Barry Bonds's homers at Dodger Stadium, although he hasn't hit as many there as you would think: 27.

Bonds' favorite road park for homers was Qualcomm with 39.

If Bonds homers at RFK, it will be his 35th different stadium in which he's hit a home run. But he won't catch the leader in this category. Fred McGriff hit homers in 43 different stadiums.

2005-09-18 20:30:49
17.   Bob Timmermann
In the 22-inning game, Cruz did not play. Probably because he retired the year before (1988). Rafael Ramirez got the game winning hit.

In the 1980 tiebreaker playoff, Cruz was 1 for 4 with a sac fly.

In the 1981 Division Series, Cruz was 6 for 20 against the Dodgers.

My point is just that Cruz was pretty much good against anybody he played against. He was a steady peformer throughout his career, whose lifetime numbers suffered from playing in the Astrodome for much of his career.

He batted .289 at home in his career, but he hit 109 of his 165 homers on the road.

The most comparable player to him according to Baseball-reference (in terms of stats and age) is Amos Otis.

2005-09-18 20:36:03
18.   Tommy Naccarato
Bob,

Thanks for looking up the info, now if you could, show how he did in his career agasint the Dodgers at the Astrodome.

(That might be a high task, but it would be interesting to know.)

Oh, and I agree with your point.

2005-09-18 20:39:36
19.   DaveP
wow... just wow. thanks for this Jon.

My favorite line was for Brian Pilkington: "Shampoos with Suave but pitches with finesse: 24 walks, 70 strikeouts in 106 2/3 innings."

2005-09-18 20:46:09
20.   trainwreck
Thanks for the great right up. Looking at the numbers we clearly have a lot of guys with more potential than actual large numbers. Be really interesting to see these guys once they finally are on the team, we have been waiting for them for it seems like forever. Hopefully we can make the core of our team homegrown talent surrounded by good free agents and players acquired in trades.
2005-09-18 20:47:37
21.   King of the Hobos
15 You didn't even mention Marshal Looney

After reading through the hitters, I felt Jon overlooked both Godwin and Batz's strengths, although Godwin didn't harness his very well. I realize it was a statistical analysis more than anything, and Godwin's speed doesn't look that good (12 SBs in 19 chances in 55 games after leading all collegiate players in SBs), and errors are the only defensive stat that the minors keep, so Batz couldn't be quantified (7 errors, but considered best defensive 1B in the Sally League, and handed the 2005 Unsung Hero award for it, whatever that is)

2005-09-18 20:48:14
22.   Bob Timmermann
Tommy,
That would be hard to do because Retrosheet doesn't have splits that way.

In 1975, Jose Cruz's first year with Houston (he started with St. Louis) he was 4 for 46 against the Dodgers. But by 1977, Cruz had a season where he batted .472 against the Dodgers. He was pretty good in 1978 and 1979 and then after that he cooled off a bit and just hit the Dodgers the same as everybody else.

2005-09-18 21:04:11
23.   King of the Hobos
Also, Looney is a lefty
2005-09-18 21:23:01
24.   bill cox
Thanks Jon for putting in the work.I follow the prospect stream as much as I can but that was service above and beyond the call of duty.
So who makes the bigs?Or should I say who becomes impact players?I like Loney,Laroche,Ruggiano,Martin(Ferguson-YeagerII
with Navarro),Delwyn Young as a solid major league hitter somewhere.I'll pass on pitchers,too snakebit there so far.
2005-09-18 22:06:43
25.   Jonathan
If the season ended today, the Dodgers would have the eighth overall pick in the 2006 draft. If Weaver is signed by another team, that's one more pick in the supplemental round and another in either the bottom half of the first round or the top half of the second round, depending on the record of the team that signs him. In other words, it looks like this draft will be an opportunity to add more top-notch talent to the organization.

Who else is a free agent that might bring in additional draft picks?
Saenz
Cruz
Valentin
Bako
Carrara
Dessens (mutual option)
Wunsch?
If the Dodgers keep drafting like they have been (very well) the farm system is going to rock for a long time. This excites me.

2005-09-18 22:09:38
26.   Louis in SF
Nice stuff Jon, but it looks like most of the prospects will really not arrive until 2007. Given some of the Twins needs for infielders and it seems we are stocked well there, what do you think is the possibility of getting Tori Hunter or Jacque Jones. I think Jones is a free agent and Hunter has a 12 million dollar option for 2007. Is Drew supposed to be in shape for Spring Training?
2005-09-18 22:19:27
27.   LAT
Thanks Jon, a great summary for those of us who are not minor saavy. At least now I have some idea Nate is talking about.

Tommy thanks for your collection of early 2005 quotes. Reading them seems like the start of the season was a lifetime ago. Maybe it was.

2005-09-18 22:27:45
28.   King of the Hobos
25 Carrara isn't a FA, and I'm pretty sure you don't get compensation for nontendering someone (we didn't get anything for Cora). Wunsch isn't one either. The other FAs I can think of at the moment are Erickson and Dreifort, and if they're Type C FAs, then the guy who decided the types should be shot. No one will sign them to a major league contract, and there's no way we offer them arbtration anyways

I could see us getting something for Weaver, Cruz, Saenz, and Bako, although the latter 3 are probably not Type As (maybe Cruz). Dessens too, but I don't see DePo going for the buyout

2005-09-18 22:52:32
29.   Jonathan
Carrara has nine years of service time and was signed to a one-year, $500,000 contract for 2005... he's not a free agent? Wunsch has a similar situation: six years of service time and, for 2005, was signed to a minor league deal with an invitation to spring training. I must not know some rule pertaining to these dudes. Can anybody clarify?
2005-09-18 22:55:25
30.   Jose Habib
Unrelated, but the audio from the Milton Bradley 911 call is online here:
http://sportsbybrooks.com/miltonbradley.Mp3
2005-09-18 23:16:30
31.   LAT
30. Pretty interesting stuff. Milton certainly doesn't sound out of control. Freud would have a field day with why he keeps calling his mother when is wife loses it. One thing is for sure, if his marriage is to survive lots of counseling is needed.
2005-09-18 23:17:38
32.   Bob Timmermann
Also unrelated, but the comments in Bronx Banter are pretty harsh about Joe Torre. I think anyone who finds the Fire Jim Tracy concept unique lacks perspective.

Torre is being pilloried by Yankees fans. And as soon as he eligible, I can guarantee that Torre is going into the Hall of Fame.

2005-09-19 01:06:54
33.   Tommy Naccarato
LAT,
Yes, the beginning of the season did seem like a lifetime ago, and even more reason to look forward to 2006.

I hate this season even more after losing to the Giants, 3 out of four. I hate it. What I'll hate even more is if they end-up passing the Padres!

Bob,
I figured it was going to be tough to check that out, but from memory, everytime Jose Cruz took the plate against the Dodgers, you just hated him. You just didn't want to see him at the plate; and he was also a pretty good defensive outfielder too, wasn't he?

2005-09-19 06:25:36
34.   Terry A
25 Expect the Dodgers to surrender a high draft pick. They seem fairly certain to sign a top-tier free agent (pitcher or outfielder) this winter.

Of course, if Weaver is that pitcher, you can overlook the above.

2005-09-19 07:01:08
35.   eltiki
What ever happened to Joe Thurston?
2005-09-19 07:05:37
36.   Bob Timmermann
Thurston was traded to the Yankees for a PTBNL.
2005-09-19 07:28:48
37.   D4P
36
Has the P been N yet?
2005-09-19 07:40:52
38.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think so.
2005-09-19 07:43:44
39.   D4P
38
Is there a time limit on naming the player?
2005-09-19 08:59:21
40.   Bob Timmermann
Six months.
2005-09-19 09:24:43
41.   Jon Weisman
23 - Thanks. I'll make the fix.
2005-09-19 09:31:36
42.   Xeifrank
Jon, nice work on the minor league reports.

Bob, still haven't heard your Oaks Christian game report. Care to brief me on how the game went?
vr, Xei

2005-09-19 09:34:23
43.   Bob Timmermann
The capsule is still on the Daily News website.

http://www2.dailynews.com/preps/ci_3036893

Of course what ended up appearing in the paper bears little resemblance to what I phoned in since they had to edit everything for space. Very few games before the league seasons start get much space. There are just too many games.

Let's just put it this way: Oaks Christian has won 20 straight and I'm sure that when the season is over the total will be 32.

2005-09-19 09:43:57
44.   Bob Timmermann
So this is supposed to build character or something?

From Tony Jackson's Daily News story:
"Late Sunday afternoon, the door to the Dodgers clubhouse opened to reveal several young men dressed in Hooters waitress uniforms. It was the unmistakable sign of one of baseball's oldest rites of passage, a once-a-year hazing that usually involves rookies being forced to wear some type of women's clothing on a team charter flight, with their suits and ties not returned to them until they reach their hotel rooms in the next city."

2005-09-19 09:44:23
45.   Xeifrank
43. Thanks Bob. Sounds like they should be playing against the big boys. Do they have a small enrollment? Is that what allows them to play in Div XI? Do you think they could hold their own against the bigger schools in the county? What good does it do beating everyone by 40+ points every week. vr, Xei
2005-09-19 09:44:42
46.   molokai
Some of these free agents are going to be in a tough position if they get rated as A type players. No one is going to give up a number one pick to sign Jose Cruz so he needs to accept arbitration if offered. I'd pay him for one year of service since quality outfielders are so scarce around here.
Same with Saenz. If he gets rated as an A type player no one is going to sign him as a free agent.
I would not offer Weaver a multi year deal but I'd sure offer him arbitration.

Several teams would make nice trading partners for the Dodgers.
Twins- need middle infielders of all types. They also have some young pitching that is more major league ready then ours. Liriano will be untouchable but Scott Baker and Boof Bonser might be had for some quality infield prospects not named Guzman/Laroche. I don't see Jacque Jones or Tory Hunter being much of an upgrade. Put them in Dodger stadium and their average stats would look pedestrian.

Nationals-need a SS, and a better backup 2nd baseman for when Vidro goes down. I would target Wilkerson who had a down year but is a quality player. I'd be more then willing to part with some prospects to bring him in. This is a team that we might be able to package MB and make a deal. Bowden has shown he is not reluctant to take on troubled players. Wilkerson is someone I'd really like the Dodgers to make a play for.

Braves - With Francoeur/A Jones/Johnson the Braves are already set in the outfield. I'd like to pick up Langerhans. He would a nice platoon partner for Werth. Plays excellent defense and had a fine year after adjusting to the league from his slow start. My own favorite Brave is Marte. He is ready to play in the bigs right now. They have no spot for him. They might want a SS for when Furcal goes. They have Betemit but I'm sure they would want some backup. 1st is also a bit weak. Young pitching they have but they are losing Hampton to TJ surgery and Thomson to free agency so they could also use some pitching.

Orioles-I'd make a big play for Tejada. We could offer Izzy, Guzman, Broxton, Martin, A Perez. That is a lot to give up but for a player like Tejada you have to raid the piggy bank. They will need a closer to replace BJ Ryan who will leave via free agency. They need a catcher to replace Lopez probably by next year as he reaches the age that catcher fall apart.

RedSox- they will need a centerfielder if they don't retain Damon and MB could be traded to them for someone like Bronson Arroyo who would be a nice pickup.

CWS- they need a 3b and a 1st baseman if Konerko leaves. No one on the team I'd be interested in other then Brain Anderson.

Reds-We all want Dunn but Wily Mo Pena might be easier to get. That team should match up with us. They need young pitching up the wazoo and could use a quality prospect catcher.

Devil Rays-we could make a simple trade for Huff who had a down year and should come cheaper or we could make a blockbuster deal for Delmon Young or BJ Upton. I'd gamble and go for Delmon Young or BJ. BJ would be my choice. Teams are going to be scared by his 53 errors and not take into account his age. This guy will be the next offensive Gary Sheffield. A player with power, with plate discipline, and the power will come the older he gets. He already can slug but I think his future is Gary Sheffield slugging so I don't care if he can't play SS. I'd be moving Laroche and a top pitching prospect not named Billingsly for him.

Tigers-Someone mentioned Carlos Pena because he is very much like Choi but he can really pick it at 1st base. He is expendable and the Tigers could use some help in the bullpen and rotation.

Royals-If we need anyone from the Royals we are in bad shape.

Brewers-I'd like to take a look at Billy Hall as a free agent. Nice young team who could use some pitching but I don't see them trading any of the player I'd covet.

Pirates-Craig Wilson could be a cheap pickup that would be an excellent platoon partner in the outfield or 1st base and serve as 3rd catcher in a pinch.

Cardinals-If we were to trade Kent they might be the team most interested but I don't see a match.

Angels-They could really use Jeff Kent. I'd like Kotchman and Brandon Wood in return.

Texas- I'd sign K Rogers to a one year deal and let the media scream.

My hopeful but realistic team next year:
1st - Carlos Pena (via trade)
2nd - Kent
SS - Billy Hall (Free Agent)
3rd - Aybar
RF - Jose Cruz Junior-one year arbitration
CF - JD Drew
LF - Wilkerson or Langerhans (via trade)
C - Navarro
Utility-Craig Wilson(via trade) / A Perez / Robles / Ledee / M Edwards / Backup Catcher

Waiting in the wings-D Young / Guzman/ R Martin / LaRoche

SP - Lowe / Penny / OP /K Rogers
5th between E Jackson / DJ Houlton / Billingsly / Bonser(via trade)
With 3 of the 4 working on there craft in AA.
Waiting in the wings Miller and Orenduff.

RP - Gagne / Sanchez / Yhancy / Wunsch / Dessens/ Schmoll

With Broxton and Kuo working and ready to step in.

Not a great team for 2006 but it should compete and it does not block any of the premium prospects. If the team does play well and it looks like we could contend then we could deal some prospects for mid season help. Now that I've spent an hour compiling this, Jon will start a new thread.

Why Pena instead of Choi- Defense and I think Pena still has more upside then Choi.
Why Billy Hall - offensive SS, who came to the bigs before he was ready but started to show his potential last year and had a fine year in 2005. His defense is not great but given his 475 slug% I could live with it. I don't expect him to get a big contract but Beane might jump him and make him his 2nd baseman so we might have some competition for him. Let the big players spend the money on Furcal and hopefully we can sneak in and grab Mr. Hall at a decent price.
Why Kenny Rogers - for one year I think he'd be a great deal. It would take a little while for the NL to adjust to him and he gets the job done year in and year out.
Why Wilkerson-still young and had a down year, possibly due to lingering injuries and the park effects of RFK. Just one year removed from 32 homers. Should be able to settle in at 260/360/460 which would be a huge upgrade over what we got in LF this year.
Why Langerhans-might come much cheaper then Wlkerson and could duplicate his numbers. Excellent corner outfielder and can CF.

2005-09-19 09:52:59
47.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Oaks Christian has a very large high school enrollment. I believe the campus has a middle school attached to it. Their stadium has seats on only one side so they don't anticipate large crowds.

Oaks Christian could be moved up, but that takes a while. They only make the big moves up and down every 2-3 years.

They already beat one Division III team, Muir. And they have two more on the schedule in Burbank (which is usually not very good) and Palmdale (which has been very good, but just happens to not be good this year).

Oaks Christian is in a league with schools of comparable size and in comparable location. But it's hard to find the right slot for them. Like St. Bonaventure, they will eventually move up. It's just that the most geographically appropriate league for them, the Marmonte League, already has 8 schools in it (most just have 6) and they are all public schools, so they may not want a private school in with them. Oaks Christian might have to go in to the Mission League with schools like Notre Dame and Chaminade and the beloved alma mater of Jon, Harvard-Westlake.

The Wolverines jumped out to a 2-0 start this year with wins over Serra and Montclair Prep!

2005-09-19 09:54:13
48.   Xeifrank
Listened to the MB 911 call, thanx to the person who posted the link. Sounds like his wife is a complete psycho and I think he handled the situation well in this instance. It's a very sad situation as they are about to bring a child into the world. They both need some counseling and I hope they work things out for the benefit of the child they are going to have. Other than that, I have no further comments on this topic. vr, Xei
2005-09-19 10:21:42
49.   Terry A
46 Hello, molokai. I mentioned Pena the other day after I read that he stands to make $4M next season. Adding to the Tigers' dilemma is that Dmitri Young's expensive option for '06 just vested.

I'm opposed to paying $4M for Pena when I believe Choi can post comparable stats for a fraction of the cost, but it's obvious that Tracy won't play Choi. It's sad to think of DePo calling Tracy from the winter meetings: "Hey Jim, I've got a deal worked out for Player X. I just have a quick question before I approve it: Will you play him?"

2005-09-19 10:22:30
50.   Terry A
And, to prove I can post on topic...

Great, great, great work today, Jon. Thanks for the reading material.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-09-19 10:29:06
51.   SiGeg
46 Some nice creative thinking, molokai. It's nice to see some new ideas. But maybe a little too much wheel spinning? Aiming too low, even for "realism"?

Why bother replacing Choi with Pena, for example? Isn't Pena right now basically what Choi would be if Choi got a full year of playing time next year and:
a) Didn't improve at all.
b) Struck out even more than he does already.
c) Was more expensive.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Pena have worse defensive stats than Choi and a reputation as a disappointing defender?

Billy Hall is an interesting idea. Is he really a free agent already?

I think we need to be more aggressive in getting a big outfield bat (especially if Bradley is gone). Langerhans might not be a bad guy to have around -- but starting him AND Cruz next year would be a big let down, I think.

2005-09-19 10:30:41
52.   deburns
I want to add my thanks for Jon's superb cheat sheet for those of us too lazy to do the work. That goes for Bob, Molokai, Nate and all the others who make this site so valuable and entertaining. Dodger Thoughts is the first place I go in the morning to make me less angry about what the rest of the world offers by way or news, and that is in the face of a dismal season. Wait 'til next year is a long-time Brooklyn plaint, and maybe this time it's wait 'til 2007, but there does appear to be a lot of light at the end of this particular tunnel.
2005-09-19 10:31:26
53.   SiGeg
And, yes -- as usual, that is quite a job you did with your post, Jon. Thanks.
2005-09-19 10:37:21
54.   popup
Thanks Jon. The quality you provide on this site is much appreciated. I hope to see some of these players when Vegas plays in Tacoma next year.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-09-19 10:51:19
55.   dzzrtRatt
Watching Kuo have to contend with Bonds yesterday should be a reminder that while it's exciting to look forward to some of the players on Jon's list coming up to the Dodgers, we can't force-feed them; we need to surround them with vets who can cover for them while they learn the bigs.

I'm over Choi. Tracy was unfair to him, but let's face it; Choi didn't really force his hand, as Navarro and Aybar have done. We need a new first baseman for 2006 to hold down the position until one of the real prospects arrives--Loney most likely. We should be trying to get a proven impactful veteran who will, yes, command a large salary, but might not expect a long contract.

What's wrong with trying to acquire Jim Thome? The Phils don't need him, and might pay part of his salary to shed him. He should be sound by next year. Kent and Drew would love to play with him. (It's obvious that one of the inputs to Tracy on Choi was Kent, who didn't think he was up to the job.)

I like the Kenny Rogers idea too, for the same reason. Also: Jerrod Washburn, one of the best lefties available. Both of them would give NL hitters fits for awhile.

The point is: If we intend to compete next year, we'll need an infusion of players at the Kent/Drew level that we can sign for a year or two. They will be expensive. But rather than trying to roll the dice on other teams' iffy prospects--we have plenty of our own, and we'll be busy nurturing them along--spend some of McCourt's money on veterans to plug the holes for the short-to-medium term, until the class of 2007 starts to push the geezers out of the way. Attendance suffered this year because the team didn't perform, but also because there was little glamour to the team. So, Frank & Jamie, time to spend money to make money.

P.S. I'm with Tracy on Weaver. We've suffered through the bad, why let him go now that he's in his prime? A rotation of Penny, Lowe, Rogers, Weaver and Washburn might be lacking a #1 starter, but five #2s and #3s ain't bad.

2005-09-19 10:55:34
56.   Bob Timmermann
I think in a couple of years, Jim Thome has a good chance of being Todd Hundley.
2005-09-19 10:58:41
57.   Icaros
I'd take Bill Hall in a second, but how is he a free agent with only four years experience? Am I missing something here?
2005-09-19 11:01:04
58.   dzzrtRatt
56 As do we all.
2005-09-19 11:04:10
59.   Terry A
55 "(It's obvious that one of the inputs to Tracy on Choi was Kent, who didn't think he was up to the job.)"

I've missed or forgotten something. How is this obvious?

2005-09-19 11:08:22
60.   LAT
56 Bob, I thought that name was banned from this and all pro-Dodger sites. The mere mention of that name invokes my wrath. That so called catcher should have his picture in the post office for fraud and grand larceny.
2005-09-19 11:10:22
61.   Howard Fox
60 not Todd's fault we took him, just like its not Dreifort's fault we offered him his contract
2005-09-19 11:13:18
62.   Bob Timmermann
60

I better do some editing on the remaining RDGCs then. We haven't seen the heyday of the Fox years yet.

2005-09-19 11:13:32
63.   Marty
I'll always fondly remember Hundley, cigarette in hand and beer on breath, waiting in a friend of mine's driveway to pick up his daughter.
2005-09-19 11:13:42
64.   molokai
51 I didn't mean to aim low I just feel the Dodgers are in a tough situation. They have a boatload of premium prospects but none of them are ready to contribute in early 2006.
Do you trade the prospects for a run in 2006?
Do you trade Kent for a better run in 2007?
Do you sign some free agents that might block your pitching prospects?
I'd love to have Matsui or Giles in the 2006 lineup I just don't think it is realistic. I actually think Wilkerson will be better then Giles from this point on in their careers so I'd rather target him then sign Giles. I'd also rather have MB then Jose Cruz but that is out of our hands.
As for Choi I no longer believe it is just a manager problem. Upper management must also no longer believe in Choi or they would have been more adamant in making JT play him. If Depo does believe in Choi and he is letting JT jerk around his career and the Dodger future then I have no need for Depo as my GM. This winter will give us the answer. If JT leaves and Depo gets a 1st baseman then we will know that managment also lost confidence in Choi. If JT leaves and we do nothing at 1st base then it will be clear that Depo decided not to interfere with the daily lineup which will also bother me. If JT stays and we do nothing at 1st base I'll continue to be one confused DT poster.
2005-09-19 11:22:23
65.   molokai
57
Like you I was shocked to see that he was a free agent. I'm basing that on the info I got from a site that had him listed as a free agent. It could be a mistake so I'll try to do some research and find out if it is true.
2005-09-19 11:22:48
66.   Bob Timmermann
I would hope Choi will get a start on September 27, which is Korean-American Night. The Dodgers should be out of the race by then. I hope that Bob Melvin doesn't decide that that night will be the game he puts Brad Halsey back in the rotation. Or else it might be a Shawn Estes start.
2005-09-19 11:28:07
67.   Jon Weisman
64 Starts at first base this year:

72 - Choi
46 - Saenz
18 - Phillips
9 - Kent
1 - Grabowski
1 - Nakamura
1 - Myrow

As I wrote earlier this summer, the idea that DePodesta should have made some kind of ultimatum with Tracy regarding playing time for Choi at first is overreaching.

Olmedo Saenz is a DePodesta signee for 2005 who had, with some ups and downs, a fine year.

Kent - another DePodesta signee, mainly played first to get Antonio Perez, another DePodesta pickup, in the lineup.

Grabowski, Nakamura - speak for themselves.

Myrow was an odd choice that day - but it was only one day.

That leaves Phillips, who made 18 starts at first - a few early in the season against lefties, and then that streak after Navarro's callup. Even assuming that DePodesta never intended Phillips to play first, that streak, which isn't even 10 percent of the season, is the only time when the choice of first baseman was truly off the wall.

Again, I would have let Choi play full-time this year, and then at least full-time against righties once it was clear that Saenz was hammering the ball.

But the management of the first base situation really isn't the place to draw and quarter Tracy. DePodesta gave him several options - and most of them worked. Saenz OPSed .793 against righties this year, and my sense is that that number was even higher until recently. Choi's OPS against righties this year: .795. I do think Choi would have done better with regular playing time, but that's pure speculation on my part. In nearly 90 percent of this season's games, Tracy made a defensible choice at first base.

So I don't have any special insight into DePodesta, but again, I don't think it's any sign of weakness that he didn't force the issue on Choi - and I say that as a Choi fan.

2005-09-19 11:29:55
68.   Jon Weisman
I will add to my comment that there were more times that Saenz could have played third (instead of Mike Edwards, etc.) and Choi could have started more. But I'm willing to let Saenz's poor defense at third be an excuse for not using him there more.
2005-09-19 11:32:35
69.   Bob Timmermann
In Bronx Banter, the Yankees fans pillory Joe Torre for starting guys with good bats, but poor defense (Sierra, Williams) while Dodger Thoughts readers get on Tracy for starting guys with ostensibly good defense starting over players with better offensive skills.
2005-09-19 11:32:46
70.   blue22
46 - Some of the more interesting names:

Nats - have Guzman locked up for 3 more years. I think they have to play their hand there for at least another year. Wilkerson I like. I've been pimping a Odalis-for-Wilkerson deal since July. Trouble is, that leaves us a starter short.

O's - can't see them dealing Tejada (he's got a manageable contract, and is arguably top 3 players in the AL), and there has been RUMORS that he is one of the big names that could end up being a positive test. Seems that Depo went out of his way to avoid those types last season w/ Kent and Drew.

Sox - will retain Damon. Put $$$ on it.

Tigers - Choi >>> Pena.

Brewers - Hall could be expendable, given the middle infield of Weeks and Hardy. Another name from the Brewers - Russell Branyan! Plashke just might die.

2005-09-19 11:37:24
71.   regfairfield
69 I don't think Bernie Williams counts as a good bat. I suppose if the alternative is Tony Womack...
2005-09-19 11:38:48
72.   Bob Timmermann
The site of Branyan and Choi at each corner would be more than Plaschke could take. He would curl up into the fetal position and revert to a child like state where he could only say "Lo Duca. Lo Duca. Lo Duca. Lo Duca."

Eventually, he would have to go to the UCLA Medical Center where he would be put on a "heart and soul" donor waiting list.

2005-09-19 11:40:21
73.   Bob Timmermann
Bernie Williams, believe it or not, actually hits and fields better than Matt Lawton, who has been given a "Do Not Play" sticker by the Yankees.
2005-09-19 11:40:28
74.   SiGeg
67 Well said, Jon. There is reason to believe Tracy dislikes playing Choi (and I'd be a little harder on Tracy than you are here), but little reason to believe that the organization as a whole has given up on him just because Tracy wasn't forced to play him.
2005-09-19 11:43:12
75.   rageon
34 - Even if LA does sign a Type-A free agent, they will keep their 1st round pick. Teams in the first 15 picks surrender their 2nd round pick instead of their 1st rounder.

46 - Perhaps you've never heard of a team by the name of the SF Giants. Historically, they've ignored compensation when looking at free agents. If anything, it seems like they sign guys just to avoid picking in the first round. Look at the Tucker and Vizquel signings, both appear to have been done when they were just for that reason. My point is that many teams really don't worry about a guy's classification when making free agent signings. They should, but they don't. Hell, even the Yankees gave up a 1st round pick for Paul freaking Quantrill.

2005-09-19 11:46:45
76.   blue22
67 - That is stunning.

Looking at those numbers, it appears that Hee has been the starting firstbasemen after all.

2005-09-19 11:50:37
77.   molokai
75The Giants are one of the very few teams that will forfeit a high draft choice to sign a mediocre free agent. They are also one of the few teams that will trade the entire inventory of pitching prospects for mediocre players. Sabean got away with being a bad GM because of a man named Bonds. He will not have that parachute any longer. The fall will be hard and I don't expect many teams to emulate how he ran the Giants into last place over the next decade.
2005-09-19 11:50:55
78.   blue22
Has it been decided that Aybar cannot play SS? Is that just not an option next year?
2005-09-19 11:56:04
79.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers definitely don't want to follow the Giants model for building a team.

The Giants decline started this year and I can't see them being a whole lot better next year even if Bonds can play 140 games. Unless Sabean thinks that he has more pixie dust to keep Randy Winn productive and keeps that youthful Giants infield happy and healthy.

2005-09-19 11:57:59
80.   Icaros
Randy Winn will be NL MVP in 2006.
2005-09-19 11:58:33
81.   Jon Weisman
76 - The number of starts for Choi has definitely tapered in the second half, in part because of the unfortunate Phillips run.

Phillips' OPS as a first baseman this year is .634. Choi is .822, Saenz is .947, Kent is 1.070.

2005-09-19 12:00:39
82.   Icaros
81 What about Grabowski, Nakamura, and Myrow?
2005-09-19 12:00:49
83.   molokai
78Most people will tell you it is not an option but then I think of Eckstein who was a 2nd baseman in the Boston organization when the the Angels claimed him off of waiver and the Angels threw him out there and lo and behold you have the SS of the World Champion Angels. One of the more interesting moves I've ever seen at the Major League level.
2005-09-19 12:01:35
84.   molokai
80If he gets to play 162 games against the Dodgers.
2005-09-19 12:02:01
85.   dzzrtRatt
67 While it's possible DT is just a giant echo chamber, I get the feeling the "Choi controversy" is having an impact on the organization, for whatever reason. They just need to end it. He won't ever live up to what his adherents claim for him, not here anyway. If I were Choi, I'd want to be anywhere but LA. If I were DePodesta, I'd be trying to figure out how to bring in a Todd Helton, Nick Johnson, Sean Casey, Paul Konerko or Jim Thome for a couple of years to complement Kent and Drew and give the Dodgers a core of veteran hitters to protect the youngsters like Aybar, Navarro, Werth and eventually Guzman, LaRoche and etc.
2005-09-19 12:03:31
86.   Icaros
84 I bet the Giants would be willing to rent him out to whatever team is playing LA for that purpose.
2005-09-19 12:04:35
87.   molokai
Nick Johnson is a free agent in 2006. Wilkerson can also play 1st base.
2005-09-19 12:06:02
88.   Bob Timmermann
Winn has even better numbers against Arizona, although in just 3 games.

Against San Diego, Winn is 5 for 33.

2005-09-19 12:07:18
89.   Icaros
He won't ever live up to what his adherents claim for him, not here anyway.

Again, the main misconception is that Choi supporters think he's a great player. None of us expect him to hit better than .240-.250 with 20-30 HRs playing everyday. The point is that he is cheap, young, and light years better than Jason Phillips.

No thanks on Sean Casey, by the way.

2005-09-19 12:12:04
90.   blue22
85 - Nah, just get rid of the problem (Tracy).

Next year, the infield has as much versatility as it did this year.

1B - Choi/Kent
2B - Kent/Perez/Aybar
SS - Robles/Aybar(?)/Perez
3B - Perez/Aybar/LH signee (Branyan, Mueller)

I'm not counting on a return of Valentin, Edwards, Saenz (on to bigger and better in the AL), and Phillips (in the IF at least). Izturis out until the AS break at least too.

2005-09-19 12:19:57
91.   LAT
67. I wish we had seen that sooner. I hadn't realized Choi had been given that many starting opportunities. Maybe it will quell some of the statements that Tracy is prejudiced against Choi. It should dispell the notion that Depo is not on board with JT's choices regarding Choi. I like the kid, but he can never fill the shoes that have been created for him by his supporters. Nobody could. I agree with Ratt; if I were Choi I would want to be on the next train out of here.
2005-09-19 12:21:36
92.   Bob Timmermann
You can hop a train at Union Station in L.A. and it will let you at Angels Stadium....
2005-09-19 12:24:05
93.   dzzrtRatt
89 The point is that he is cheap, young, and light years better than Jason Phillips.

Fine. That's not much of a hurdle to overcome. But I hope neither DePo nor Tracy, if he stays, will use that as their criterion for next year. The "cheap" part should be irrelevant to a big-market club like the Dodgers. First base is too critical to a team's offense to be viewed merely as a profit center.

I recall there were complaints about Choi's playing time before Phillips ever tried on a first baseman's glove. Tracy has had a problem with him since last year.

2005-09-19 12:26:56
94.   Kayaker7
91 Choi got a lot of starts in the first half of the season. He went through some stretches where he looked awful. I wondered why he was so aggressive, instead of taking his walks. It was as if he was not even the same player that Depo liked. I might sound like a Choi apologist, but it seems like he was getting poor hitting advice, then getting benched in response to his poor showing because of it. But, in the end, he needs know himself and what he is capable of. He should not try to do EXACTLY what the coaches tell if it goes againsts his capabilities.
2005-09-19 12:30:02
95.   Icaros
I recall there were complaints about Choi's playing time before Phillips ever tried on a first baseman's glove. Tracy has had a problem with him since last year.

Yeah, I liked him over Shawn Green last year, that's why I didn't mind paying $10 million to get him out of town to supposedly give Choi the everyday job.

The "cheap" part should be irrelevant to a big-market club like the Dodgers. First base is too critical to a team's offense to be viewed merely as a profit center.

Most teams don't have an $8 million second baseman who hits cleanup and leads the team on offense. I think that allows you to get away with not paying $15 million for someone like Helton.

2005-09-19 12:32:47
96.   Jon Weisman
89 (and 91) - Icaros is right - Choi more than fills the shoes, which is why so many of us are disappointed by his use. It's the idea that somehow he has to be perfect that has gotten out of control. An OPS over .800 is nothing to sneeze at for a young player.

93 is a valid point - the money saved with Choi at first is only valuable if it is spent. But it's nice to have the opportunity that Choi offers.

2005-09-19 12:38:01
97.   Bob Timmermann
But having a perfect first baseman seems to be an L.A. imperative. Although since Steve Garvey left, the fans only seemed to accept Eric Karros as a first baseman.

But since Garvey left (whose highest OPS in L.A. was .747), the highest OPS of any Dodgers starting first baseman was .934 by Eddie Murray in 1990 and that figure is way above what any other starting first baseman for the Dodgers has reached. Shawn Green was at .811 last year.

2005-09-19 12:43:29
98.   Kayaker7
97 Shawn Green was painful to watch last year. So many GIDPs. Yet Tracy had full trust in him. I guess managing a baseball team, as practiced today, is a highly subjective thing. To me, it should be all about the numbers, but it seems interpersonal factors figure into much more than it should.
2005-09-19 12:58:10
99.   dzzrtRatt
97 the fans only seemed to accept Eric Karros as a first baseman.

Not this fan. Since Garvey, I enjoyed Eddie Murray and have otherwise looked upon teams like the Cardinals, Cubs, Mets, A's, Rockies, Yankees, etc. with seething envy, wondering why we can't get a first baseman like that. When Karros-love was at its height, I remember writing lists of all the first basemen of his era who would be chosen ahead of him to play in the All-Star game. At any given time, he was no better than 8th on the depth chart.

As for the point about Kent's presence removing the need for a top tier first baseman...yeah, I guess you could look at it that way. But are the only choices really $15 million to Helton, or nickels and dimes to Choi and Saenz?

2005-09-19 13:00:47
100.   LAT
96. Jon, I am not saying Choi needs to be perfect. With some defenseive work, he is a servicable 1B. However, through no fault of his own, he became a lightening rod for "The Trade" and the way Tracy manages his players. I think his GM and some of his supporters have actually done him a disservice.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-09-19 13:02:59
101.   blue22
99 - But are the only choices really $15 million to Helton, or nickels and dimes to Choi and Saenz?

IMO, it's the middle ground that is absolutely the worst option.

If you're going to spend the minimum, and go Choi/Saenz, at least that is financially efficient if not All-Star productive.

If you're going to open the checkbook and bring in Helton at a $14M price tag, at least you have a gold standard 1B.

But, to shell out $7M for someone like Sean Casey - I mean, what's the point? Seems like that's the worst of both worlds.

2005-09-19 13:03:00
102.   SiGeg
It's the idea of specifically targeting 1st base as a priority to upgrade that doesn't make much sense to me. If the Dodgers can upgrade over Choi, OK. I like rooting for Choi, and I'd be sorry to see him go, but I'm not expecting him to suddenly become Pujols or Helton. But why not concentrate instead on improving the OF, where there are usually more possibilities and where the Dodgers' current options aside from Drew (not counting Bradley) offer, IMO, less hope to produce than does Choi.

Yes, BOTH 1B and the OF could be improved -- but with a need for a 3B, maybe a SS, and at least one good SP (and maybe some other abbreviations), I think the Dodgers have bigger concerns than upgrading over Choi.

Ideally, I'd like to see Choi get most of the starts next year, with Kent often playing 1B against lefties and Perez or Aybar taking 2nd at those times. (I think Olmedo is just too fragile to count on next year, and is unlikely to quite match this year's good performance, based on age and history. He should be a DH.) Not sure if Kent would go for that, though.

2005-09-19 13:04:50
103.   Jon Weisman
100 - "I think his GM and some of his supporters have actually done him a disservice. "

That makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

Choi is a lightning rod because of those questioning his worth, not those defending it.

2005-09-19 13:05:41
104.   Sam DC
Put it this way: When Jackson feels blue, he looks at Hanrahan for consolation.

That's great stuff.

For some reason, this just stopped me in my tracks: "Nick Theodorou, Las Vegas, 5-11, 182, 6/7/75: Might be time for this eight-year Dodger farmhand to wrap it up, following a .640 OPS in 2005." So many years of work for this guy, to just boil down to that. (Not a criticism at all of the clear, fair analysis, Jon. I'm Just moody today.)

2005-09-19 13:10:22
105.   regfairfield
73 I forgot that the Yankees had Lawton. He picked a very bad time to slump, apparently.
2005-09-19 13:13:18
106.   Jon Weisman
104 - Yeah, you know, I read over that line about Nick and thought about softening it. However, I'm sure he didn't get as far as he did by letting me sum up his value for him. He's free to write the same about me:

Jon Weisman, Los Angeles, 5-10, 152, 11/26/67: Despite some initial success in journalism and screenwriting and some lively hits in the Blogging League, a journeyman.

2005-09-19 13:14:23
107.   molokai
105 Not being a Yankee fan I think he picked a perfect time to slump.
2005-09-19 13:16:54
108.   blue22
107 - Not a Yankee fan, but I'm rooting for a Oakland, Boston, Cleveland, NY postseason.

I just really don't want to see the ChiSox or Angels make it this year.

2005-09-19 13:18:52
109.   Sam DC
106 But hey, married with 2 kids, and still at 152? Those are the kind of numbers that have the sabre crowd shaking their heads in awe . . .
2005-09-19 13:21:10
110.   Bob Timmermann
My former boss was nearly as tall as me (6'5") and weighed less than Jon.
2005-09-19 13:21:11
111.   D4P
109
Looks like he's a "light" sabre
2005-09-19 13:22:36
112.   Bob Timmermann
107

Have you ever seen Matt Lawton play the outfield this year? Ooh, scary stuff. He doesn't seem to be able to judge fly balls coming off the bat well at all.

This has proven to be a detriment to quality outfield play.

2005-09-19 13:26:22
113.   Jon Weisman
109 - A year ago, my cholesterol level was well over my weight. Decided to fight it through diet instead of Lipitor.

Now I rarely eat hamburgers or exercise. I have the brute strength of a piece of yarn.

2005-09-19 13:28:33
114.   Icaros
113 Has that made your cholesterol level go down much? I've heard it's hard to get it to move no matter what you do.
2005-09-19 13:29:36
115.   blue22
112 - Sheffield is full-time DH'ing for the rest of the year now too.

Who do the Yanks start in the OF these days?

2005-09-19 13:29:49
116.   Jon Weisman
114 - I was pessimistic, but I actually went from the low 200s to about 130 in a year. My wife had a similar drop.
2005-09-19 13:33:36
117.   Icaros
116 Wow.
2005-09-19 13:33:56
118.   Jon Weisman
Hope Xeifrank is enjoying this conversation :)
2005-09-19 13:34:52
119.   Bob Timmermann
The Yankees outfield now is expected to go Matsui-Williams-(Insert Name Here)

Torre seems to want to use Ruben Sierra to get his bat in the lineup, but he makes Gary Sheffield look like Garry Maddox. Bubba Crosby doesn't hit much and he's ... Bubba Crosy. Matt Lawton can't seem to hit or field. Lawton did not get hit with the same Yankee Stadium pixie dust that fell on Shawn Chacon and Aaron Small.

2005-09-19 13:35:34
120.   Xeifrank
On they Choi topic, I don't know why Tracy failed to use him so much in the 2nd half of the season, opting to start Phillips 18 times and even starting Myrow over Choi in a crucial must win game. One can only ass-u-me, and Tracy is a hard nut to crack, because if you try to use logic to figure his thinking out nothing makes sense. This is what is so distrubing, so much of what he does just doesn't make sense as hard as you might try to make some sense out of it for him. The Myrow start was just mind boggling. Those are the type of things you do after you've been mathematically eliminated or pressed to do so by injuries. Every manager makes his share of dumb decisions or takes a gamble here or there that doesn't pay off, and I think we all have our own thresholds on how many and what level of mistakes we can live with if they are decisions that make some sense. Starting Phillips because of his RISP prowess, benching Choi due to arm angles, starting Myrow in the biggest game of the year up to that point, pinch running APerez and bunting Bradley with Kent on deck are just senseless acts in my opinion. 4 year olds have better lies and make believe explanations than Tracy comes up with. As far as Choi is concerned I believe he is trying to hide something from the public.
vr, Xei
2005-09-19 13:36:45
121.   Bob Timmermann
Jon,
Did you accomplish your drop in cholesterol through watching "Gilligan Island's" reruns?
2005-09-19 13:38:58
122.   JMK
I actually wouldn't mind if the Dodger were not big players in the free agent market this coming off-season. It seems to me that paying big bucks for free agents is usually a bad play. The money given to Finley, Beltre, Jamey Wright, Carl Pavano, Odalis Perez, Orlando Cabrera, Beltran...etc. does not seem to have been wisely spent. Even if you consider some of the guys who did OK this year like Pedro or Lowe, I'm not sure you want their contracts on your team going forward. I'll bet this is true generally in the history of free market spending. I'm not advocating staying out of the market altogether, but it seems to me that one year incentive laden deals are much less risky and don't cripple your team financially. Millwood, Loaiza, and Byrd all signed one year deals that have worked out for their teams and buyers didn't have to risk much. If the Dodgers stay healthy next year, and I understand that's a humongously big stinkin' "IF", then I'm pretty sure they'll be better than anyone in the NL west.
2005-09-19 13:40:18
123.   Jon Weisman
121 - I thought I made it clear that Gilligan's Island cured comas. It has nothing to do with cholesterol.

Main events appear to have been: 1) placing TiVo and children's rooms on different floors and 2) eating oatmeal.

2005-09-19 13:42:01
124.   Icaros
123 Do you think Cream of Wheat would work as a substitute?
2005-09-19 13:43:22
125.   Xeifrank
118. haha! A few posts about diet I can handle, when we spend the whole afternoon on game day talking about movies, I have to go do some actual work. :) vr, Xei
2005-09-19 13:43:33
126.   Bob Timmermann
124
Only for Felipe Alou.
2005-09-19 13:45:20
127.   Marty
Xei, why do you spell assume the way you do? Just curious.
2005-09-19 13:46:08
128.   Icaros
A few posts about diet I can handle, when we spend the whole afternoon on game day talking about movies, I have to go do some actual work

Considering how most gamedays have ended up this season, we've probably been better off talking about anything but baseball.

2005-09-19 13:46:49
129.   Bob Timmermann
120

Ahh, Tracy hiding something from the public! I think the only thing we can do now is convene a special committee to investigate. Sort of like the Warren Commission.

Perhaps we can have someone come up with a "Magic Bat" theory.

2005-09-19 13:48:16
130.   Icaros
Hey, Marty's in the house.

Judging from the cooking he's done this season, I know he doesn't worry about cholesterol.

2005-09-19 13:49:48
131.   Uncle Miltie
46- Langerhans would be a nice pickup, but I don't think he'd come as cheaply as you expect. He's under control for 5 more years. The Braves would probably want Broxton in return.

We could offer Izzy, Guzman, Broxton, Martin, A Perez.
Are you nuts? We trade our best hitting prospect (probably one of the top 5 in baseball), a player described as a "franchise catcher", a young GG SS, our 2nd best pitching prospect, and a cheap/young middle infielder who can hit. We better be getting Miguel Cabrera AND Dontrelle Willis/Josh Beckett in return. Sorry, but that's a ridiculous proposal.

Milton Bradley isn't going to net us Bronson Arroyo. He's a possible non tender, though I think he'll be traded.

Wily Mo might be easier to acquire than Dunn, but that's not saying much. I'd expect the Reds to ask for Broxton and Jackson

we could make a simple trade for Huff who had a down year and should come cheaper or we could make a blockbuster deal for Delmon Young or BJ Upton. I'd gamble and go for Delmon Young or BJ. BJ would be my choice.
There is zero chance that the Devil Rays are trading Delmon. BJ I would put at 2 %. If our scouts think BJ can stay at SS and play average defense, then I'd offer Izzy, Jackson, and Broxton. The D-rays would probably want Billingsley and LaRoche. Unless Lamar is gone, we probably won't be making any deals with the D-rays.

Pena is not the defender that he was in the minors. I have no idea what happened to him. I'd still say he's a breakout candidate next year. As any A's fan will attest to, Pena is a strikeout machine.\

Bill Hall is not a FA and doesn't play even adequate defense at SS. He's a 2B/3B

I like Craig Wilson, but he's injury prone. I'd don't think he plays 3B. I've seen him play RF, 1B, and catch (once). He's a poor defender wherever he plays. He's a HBP machine.

I wouldn't trade with the Angels and I doubt they would trade Wood.

No on Kenny Rogers, Yes on Wilkerson

2005-09-19 13:50:20
132.   Icaros
129 Tracy is hiding the fact that the inside of his skull contains nothing more than an over-ripe grapefruit with a band-aid on it.
2005-09-19 13:50:22
133.   Kayaker7
124 It would probably help, if you had been eating prime rib all the time, but oatmeal has soluable fiber, which helps to lower cholesterol, which cream of wheat lacks. However, as for cholesterol, lower is not always better. Higher cholesterol is associated with LOWER risk of strokes caused by burst blood vessels. I would say that keeping cholesterol in the 150-160 range is good. I wouldn't go any lower.

My cholesterol is about 185-190, but my HDL (good cholesterol) is 85, which is very high. So, I'm still considered in the healthy range.

2005-09-19 13:51:52
134.   Kayaker7
127 I heard this in the Navy all time. Assume makes an ASS of U and ME.
2005-09-19 13:52:52
135.   Marty
Icaros, just because I don't worry about my cholestoral, doesn't mean I SHOULDN'T worry about it. Denial is a beautiful thing...
2005-09-19 13:54:03
136.   Icaros
Now we know that Kayaker7 was in the Navy, and he might be a doctor.
2005-09-19 13:54:18
137.   Marty
134 Aah. I thought it was something like that. Just didn't put it together. Thanks.
2005-09-19 13:55:37
138.   Icaros
135 I hear you. How was the Once Upon a Time in the West screening? I watched my DVD Saturday night in honor of the event.
2005-09-19 13:55:43
139.   Marty
And I'm sure my cholestoral is skyrocketing now after the Langer's pastrami sandwich I just had for lunch :)
2005-09-19 13:56:01
140.   Kayaker7
136 Nah, I'm not a doctor. I just read obsessively about anything that has to do with diet/health/fitness.
2005-09-19 13:57:05
141.   Kayaker7
139 With pastrami, it's the salt that'll kill ya, not the saturated fat. But I know, it's so good.
2005-09-19 13:57:18
142.   King of the Hobos
Just because I think 67 was somewhat misleading, realize that Choi has started 72 games, the other guys have started 76. A regular 1B does not start less than 50% of the time. A platooned lefty 1B does not start less than 50% of the games. Also, the games played adds up to 148, the Dodgers have played 149. Who played the extra game? I don't have games started at a position handy
2005-09-19 13:59:55
143.   Marty
138 It was a lot of fun. Great food and high-octane cocktails. But I was disappointed in the movie. It was the first time I'd seen it all the way through in many years and I thought Fistful of Dollars was better. The opening scene is still great though.
2005-09-19 14:02:55
144.   Icaros
I'm almost the exact same height and weight as Jon (5-10, 158 lbs), 8 years younger, and I do a lot of walking and some weight training.

Can't I just eat whatever the hell I want until my metabolism goes out? Please?

2005-09-19 14:03:48
145.   molokai
Sorry I'm bored and already wishing for 2006.

My Dodger Wishes for 2006
1st - Choi decides that it is time for him to replace Chan Ho Park as the resident King of Korea in American baseball and pulls a 250/375/475 line that includes 450 at bats and 25 home runs.
2nd - Kent does what he has always done but does it quietly and realizes that certain players under alot of stress don't react to his pushing. Leaves the motivation to the managers and coaches and AGENTS.
SS - Izzy comes back from his surgery and proves his offensive growth in early 2005 was real and that his subsequent Mark Belanger imitation was due to his health.
3b - Dodgers sign Nomar to a one year incentive laden contract and this time he earns it.
C - Navarro just keeps doing what he's done so far.
RF - JD Drew comes back from his multiple injuries to prove that he was worth the investment.
CF - Milton Bradly mends all of his fences and Plaschke writes a teary column at the end of the year about 2nd chances and how Kent/MB learned from the fiasco of 2005 and how they used that experience to propel them into the 2006 World Series. Having Billy Hall and Edwin Jackson on the team helps MB in ways that only he can define.
LF - Jose Cruz Junior decides that now would be a good time to best that year he had in Toronto in 2001

Lowe continues to pitch like he did in August/Sept
Penny continue to grow as a pitcher and become the pitcher that dominated a world series.
Odalis Perez just stays healthy and gives us a league average game every 5 days.
Edwin Jackson takes the bulls by the horn and shows why he, not Tim Hudson is the pitcher you want for the future.
Somebody is traded for or signed and does such a good job that Billingsly is allowed to spend the full year in AA.

Gagne comes back healthy and the Gagne of old.
Broxton bullies hitters
Kuo stays healthy and becomes a deadly 2 inning middle relief pitcher
Sanchez continues to improve due to his control and changeup.

2005-09-19 14:07:00
146.   Kayaker7
144 I'm actually considered overweight by the standard height/weight chart. I'm 5'7" at 168 lbs. I carry a little extra muscle mass from weight training. Seriously, people should pay more attention to body composition, rather than just weight.
2005-09-19 14:07:36
147.   Howard Fox
144 sure, go ahead, but I'm no doctor
2005-09-19 14:08:24
148.   Icaros
143 I actually like Charles Bronson better than Eastwood, and I think the music for OUATITW is Morricone's greatest score that I've heard, so that's what sways me.

Do you like A Fistful of Dollars better than The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly?

2005-09-19 14:10:22
149.   Howard Fox
I prefer Dirty Harry
2005-09-19 14:11:58
150.   Icaros
I prefer Dirty Harry

Is that a cocktail of some sort? :-)

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-09-19 14:12:51
151.   Icaros
Oh, and I like Bronson in Death Wish over Eastwood in Dirty Harry, as well.
2005-09-19 14:14:27
152.   Xeifrank
Just curious how does MB get traded. Does he have to be offered and accept arbitration first? And if so, will he be con-side-red damaged goods with his bad knee and all?

Oh no, not more movie/tv talk.

145. You forgot your once upon a time at the beginning of your post and the abracadabra at the end! :)

2005-09-19 14:14:42
153.   Howard Fox
150 yes, a molotai, I mean molotov
2005-09-19 14:14:59
154.   Marty
148 Yes, because it's a better story IMO. The original story was a Dashiell Hammett novel called "Red Harvest". Great book. Kurasawa then used that as the basis for "Yojimbo", one of my favorite movies. Leone then did Fistful which is close to scene for scene the same as Yojimbo, just set in the west rather than feudal Japan. Another remake of the story was "Last Man Standing" with Bruce Willis.
2005-09-19 14:16:04
155.   Bob Timmermann
The villian in the first Dirty Harry films now directs many of the episodes of "The Gilmore Girls": Andrew Robinson.

He has said that he received death threats after the movie came out because people thought he was a serial killer.

Now, you can play a serial killer without any compunction because there are so many of them depicted on TV and in the movies.

2005-09-19 14:16:33
156.   Howard Fox
152 wouldn't the arbitration route be a little risky for the Dodgers? at this point, they should offer him an incentive laden contract including behavior clauses
2005-09-19 14:17:44
157.   Marty
James Hampton, Dobbs from "F Troop" also does a lot of TV directing.
2005-09-19 14:22:10
158.   Fallout
145. molokai

And to wish for 10 more wishes.

2005-09-19 14:23:04
159.   Uncle Miltie
152- the Dodgers probably won't offer Milton arbitration, so they'll have to trade him before the deadline to offer players arbitration (near the end of November).
2005-09-19 14:24:21
160.   Telemachos
143 I had planned on going (OUaTitT is one of my fave westerns of all time) but my wife has pneumonia right now, so I wasn't able to go. Glad to hear it was a fun time.

The Leone exhibit at the Autry museum is very cool, for those who haven't gone yet.

2005-09-19 14:24:37
161.   blue22
156 - What are the options?

1. non-tender, he becomes a FA.
2. offer arbi, accepts, signs a 1-yr deal, may or may not be traded at that point
3. offer arbi, declines, becomes a FA
4. offered a contract, with presumed character and playing time clauses?

2005-09-19 14:26:39
162.   blue22
159 - I guess that would be option #5 on 161
2005-09-19 14:29:52
163.   alex 7
I also wonder if Choi's number of starts isn't a little misleading in that he was pinch hit for more than a typical starting 1B in the games he started. He also didn't seem to start consistently. I would think a player does better when he gets those daily reps than when he gets 4 at bats, sits for a week, then gets 4 more.

Choi's powerful hot streaks should more than cover any worry over his cold streaks - which would still include some walks and one for fours.

2005-09-19 14:30:03
164.   King of the Hobos
BA's top 20 lists have started. Today is GCL/AZL, which are fairly meaningless because of the youth. Ivan DeJesus made it at 13th, and Miguel Sanfler made it at 19th. How Sanfler made it to 19th is beyond me, he's 21 in a few weeks, and wasn't particularly good (25 BBs in 40 IP). Wilfredo Diaz at the very least seems like a better prospect. I can't read the scouting reports, maybe that will explain it
2005-09-19 14:31:34
165.   alex 7
I became a dad for the first time two weekends ago. I come back and see this incredible compilation by Jon. Many thanks. Also lots of quality imput on pending free agents and how free agents aquired or lost will impact our draft position. That's also appreciated.
2005-09-19 14:33:32
166.   molokai
131
Yes I would offer that for Tejada. I'm a big prospect hound but I don't understand the overvaluation of unproven talent. These are AA prospects and it is possible that not one of them will have a major league career of any importance.
1. Russ Martin is not a franchise catcher. He's a good catcher with a great OBP in AA. Some power but not much. Unless you consider Kendall to be a franchise catcher I don't see it. He is a nice prospect but a franchise catcher?
2. A Perez is a throw in. Why anyone here thinks he's anything other then a utility player is beyond me. I'm hoping his plus 300 average will intrigue the Orioles but it doesn't intrigue me because I know it is a mirage. He might become a decent lefty killer but if he played every day he'd be lucky to have an OBP > 300.
3. Guzman has the most upside but you are talking about one of the top 10 players in baseball.
4. Izzy has how much value at this point?
5. Broxton, Orioles need something to make this deal.

I don't think the Orioles would do this deal not the Dodgers. The Dodgers would improve tremendously without giving up one player they are counting on in 2006. I would think you'd have to give up 3 top prospects to get a player the caliber of Tejada.JMO

2005-09-19 14:35:46
167.   Xeifrank
165. Congrats!!!!!!!!!! Was it a boy or a girl? Or one of each!!? Either way, you are in for a wonderful treat. I have been a new father for 15 marvelous months. Children are a true blessing... unless you ask my friends who have teenage daughters. :)
vr, Xei
2005-09-19 14:42:13
168.   Icaros
161 Bradley has no choice but to accept arbitration, as he does not have enough service time to be a free-agent.

The Dodgers have total control of his 2006 destiny.

2005-09-19 14:43:58
169.   Marty
168 Bradley certainly doesn't seem to have any control over it.
2005-09-19 14:47:14
170.   Icaros
Look at how the Dodgers acquired Encarnacion in 2004. That's how a Bradley deal would work.

Since the player has no choice but to accept arbitration, his rights can be traded to any team, then they can either go through arbitration with him or offer him a multi-year contract.

Evans chose to offer Encarnacion a two year deal.

2005-09-19 14:51:35
171.   Icaros
160 Seeing that exhibit was the last thing I did in LA before moving. Could've been a little bigger, but definitely cool.

Best wishes to your wife.

2005-09-19 14:51:56
172.   blue22
168 - Good point, I missed that one.
2005-09-19 14:54:39
173.   alex 7
a baby girl. Already looking forward to spoiling her once she's old enough to realize she's being spoiled =) Half-kidding, but yeah, it has been a treat so far. She's so calm also, sleeps really well, that's been quite the blessing on its own.

So for those who might know, how did the Bradley / domestic violence incident end? Has he been found guilty? I didn't hear the 911 call on the link above, but from reactions it sounds like he was calm and she's a little crazy. Do we know if he really abused her or if it's one of those calls after a bad arguement deals?

2005-09-19 14:55:29
174.   Xeifrank
168. Thanks. Once again this site shows off it's knowledge base. vr, Xei
2005-09-19 14:57:02
175.   Howard Fox
173 sounds like they are a match made in heaven
2005-09-19 14:58:10
176.   Xeifrank
173. Publicly, they kissed and made up. No arrests made. There were a couple of calls. In one incident she claimed he had choked her. This call must not have been from that incident. She sounds a bit psycho, and we already know he has an anger problem. Mix the two together and you have a strong witches brew. vr, Xei
2005-09-19 14:59:07
177.   Icaros
175 I knew the concept of Heaven was overrated.
2005-09-19 15:02:49
178.   molokai
177Hard to be funny in print but you succeed time and time again.
2005-09-19 15:04:59
179.   blue22
For some reason, I see Milton in CF for the Phils next year.

Give me Jason Michaels and a pitcher (old friend Aquilino Lopez?). Michaels would make Werth expendable, whom I think has a bit of trade value.

2005-09-19 15:05:32
180.   Icaros
178 :-)
2005-09-19 15:09:54
181.   Icaros
179 I didn't realize that Jason Michaels had such high OBP numbers. He's 29. How come he hasn't played a full season in the bigs yet?
2005-09-19 15:12:36
182.   Bob Timmermann
173
Already looking forward to spoiling her

Guess I should return that rod I bought to give alex 7.

2005-09-19 15:14:45
183.   molokai
I see no reason to give away MB unless McCourt has determined that he can't play for us. Is it possible that the media has overplayed how much McCourt is unhappy with Milton? I mean he is our Roberto Clemente nominee isn't he?
2005-09-19 15:17:02
184.   King of the Hobos
Michaels would be perfect, just look at his first name. Now we can put Grabowski at 1B, and we can have 5 Jasons on the field at once
2005-09-19 15:17:06
185.   Howard Fox
it wouldn't surprise me if MB was in center for us next year...he still has talent and he is still priced right
2005-09-19 15:18:52
186.   Howard Fox
Cruz, Bradley, Drew...not the worst outfield
2005-09-19 15:22:02
187.   King of the Hobos
Looking at Michaels, he wouldn't be a bad acquisition. But I really don't think he's worth Bradley. I see him more as a 4th/5th OF, as he doesn't have much power, and strikes out a lot. His patience has been very inconsistent thoughout the minors and majors. Another 4th/5th OF just wouldn't do much, we already have more than we know what to do with
2005-09-19 15:22:41
188.   molokai
186Is that the new slogan for 2006?
2005-09-19 15:26:23
189.   Telemachos
188 In 2007, we could certainly use the A's slogan from a few years back: "They're young, but they can play."
2005-09-19 15:26:57
190.   Howard Fox
188 didn't you know? I am the marketing director for the dodgers
2005-09-19 15:27:28
191.   Icaros
The 2006 LA Dodgers...We're not as bad as people say we are.
2005-09-19 15:27:39
192.   Bob Timmermann
189

As opposed to the new 2005 motto, "Seemed like a good idea at the time."

2005-09-19 15:27:56
193.   Terry A
179 That would make Dodgers/Phillies series fun. The battle of the despised centerfielders. (Philly hates Drew; LA probably hates Bradley.)
2005-09-19 15:28:24
194.   Howard Fox
189 how about this, "those aren't mistakes, it's youthful enthusiasm"
2005-09-19 15:28:27
195.   blue22
187 - This is under the assumption that anything we get for Bradley is gravy, that he's already out the door.

Depends on what you think the front office has decided on MB's fate (and I think that decision has already been made somewhere).

2005-09-19 15:29:05
196.   Icaros
2005 Dodgers...PECOTA says we should have won.
2005-09-19 15:31:14
197.   Howard Fox
2007 Dodgers..."but we had such potential at AA"
2005-09-19 15:32:39
198.   Marty
Dodgers 2006..."Progressing to the Mean"
2005-09-19 15:32:50
199.   Bob Timmermann
There's no way the people of L.A. hate Bradley anywhere to the same extent that people in Philadelphia hate Drew.

I don't even think it would be close.

2005-09-19 15:34:15
200.   Howard Fox
Dodgers 2006..."our future is brighter than your future"
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-09-19 15:34:33
201.   Marty
Philly fans hate JD Drew?
2005-09-19 15:34:59
202.   Howard Fox
199 and that is because LA doesn't understand "hate" like Philly does?
2005-09-19 15:35:04
203.   Terry A
Well, the Dodger fans only show up for the middle three innings anyway...

And really, can anybody hate the way Philadelphians hate?

2005-09-19 15:35:24
204.   Bob Timmermann
Drew, through Boras, refused to sign with Philadelphia and played in an indy league. He ended up with the Cardinals.

Philadelphia fans took this as a personal affront.

2005-09-19 15:35:57
205.   Terry A
201 With a passion. They drafted him and he played a year in the Northern League rather than sign there. The Cards drafted him the following year.
2005-09-19 15:36:11
206.   Terry A
Darn you, Bob.
2005-09-19 15:36:27
207.   Howard Fox
204 and in so doing, Drew became the reason for 1964
2005-09-19 15:36:27
208.   Marty
204 I didn't know that.
2005-09-19 15:37:56
209.   Xeifrank
So is Bradley staying or going? Can he and Kent play together? Did he embarass the team by taking his gripe with Kent public and burn his bridges? Then on top of that there is the serious knee injury. Is he suppose to be ready by spring training? Would his trade value still be high pre-spring training, pre-testing the knee out playing baseball? Sure, I as a fan could live with having him back next year. I'm not sure the McCourt's want to take the PR hit, after seeing the fan attendance dwindle the last quarter of the year. I think they have two possible PR hits coming this offseason if I get my way. #1 The firing of JT, #2 Keeping MB. #1 could be alleviated somewhat by JT opting out. The PR hit in him leaving would be softened a bit. Personally, I don't care about the PR hits, but then again I am not the owner of this proud franchise. vr, Xei
2005-09-19 15:40:04
210.   Xeifrank
JD Drew and John Elway have something in common. The each pissed off a city by not signing with the team that drafted them. Let's hope Drew's story can turnout half as good. vr, Xei
2005-09-19 15:40:47
211.   CanuckDodger
Uncle Miltie was right: Molokai's trade idea for Tejada is insane. The likelihood is that Guzman, Martin, and Broxton will all have very good to excellent major league careers, based on the available facts. The possibility that they won't is probably less than the possibility that Tejada immediately begins a catastophic "decline phase" of his career and never again has a good, or even average, season. I laugh when I observe how people assume only unexpectedly bad things happen to prospects, but not major leaguers, when major leaguers declining once they are Tejada's age happens MUCH more often than prospects like Guzman, Martin, and Broxton flaming out.
2005-09-19 15:42:18
212.   Howard Fox
210 he'll be damn lucky to throw half as many touchdowns
2005-09-19 15:44:48
213.   Marty
The Colts ended up pissing off Baltimore a lot more than Elway did.
2005-09-19 15:45:09
214.   Howard Fox
211 I hope each and every prospect we have who is so highly rated does what is projected. But the odds are very few of them will succeed at the level we expect.

The facts you subscribe to are not facts, but rather projections.

2005-09-19 15:46:56
215.   blue22
209 - Tracy isn't getting fired. He'll opt out and go to Cincy/Pitt for more money.
2005-09-19 15:51:42
216.   alex 7
re: 182 If it was an A-rod, send it anyways Bob. I'm a coach so I think there's a genetic limit to my spoiling ability.

Xei, I was trying to make up my mind about Bradley too, which is why I asked about how the whole legal affair ended. I too wouldn't mind seeing him in CF and hitting 2nd or 6th next year.

re: 200 I love that slogan Howard. Nothing says "We're not really that good yet" the way that says it. And the way White drafts we can use it every year if need be.

2005-09-19 15:55:22
217.   Steelyeri
I got my Sporting News Mag today. I was reading and in the Dodger section I came across this bit.

"C Dioner Navarro has been getting a long look down the stretch but he's not a lock for the starting job in 2006. Many in the organization think Class AA C Russel Martin has a higher ceiling. He is a hitter in the Paul Loduca mold and is sound defensively. "
--Ken Gurnick.

Russel Martin in the LoDuca mold? Plase lord, forgive him, for he knows not what he says.

2005-09-19 15:57:24
218.   Howard Fox
the way White drafts we can use it every year if need be

..and we will...

2005-09-19 15:58:22
219.   molokai
I didn't even know Dodger fans didn't like MB. Now if he had imploded in the middle of a pennant race!

If I was a Philly fan even I would boo Drew. You can't let a player who dissed your team ever forget it.

As a Clipper fan we boo most non Clippers because at one time or another they have dissed us.

2005-09-19 15:59:02
220.   Howard Fox
217 so Ken Gurnick believes Martin will start every season strong out of the gate and fade down the stretch...just what I want to base my future on...
2005-09-19 16:01:57
221.   still bevens
215 Its still a PR hit, as it feeds the 'McCourt is too cheap' mantra that the LA Times writers have successfully stigmatized the organization with.
2005-09-19 16:18:14
222.   Bob Timmermann
As a Clipper fan we boo most non Clippers because at one time or another they have dissed us.

Even Eric Piatkowski?

2005-09-19 16:21:55
223.   Fallout
One of my favorite DePodesta quotes:

"I think we're in pretty good shape on both of those fronts...I certainly think we have a lot of good prospects from which we can deal."

"And we made it a point this winter to go into the season leaving a pretty significant amount of dry powder so we could do something at the deadline or even at any time during the course of the year."

2005-09-19 16:39:35
224.   Uncle Miltie
222- Pike didn't diss the Clippers. Michael Olowokandi and Lamar Odom get booed the most. Darius Miles usually receives a standing ovation when he returns.
2005-09-19 16:49:04
225.   molokai
222
We never boo Pike. Miles no longer gets the ovations he got after the 1st year he was traded. I've been to just about every game for 5 years so I know of what I speak. Counseling hasn't helped but it makes it easier to have empathy for Tampa Bay fans. Shaun Livingston is going to be our Delmon Young.
2005-09-19 16:50:55
226.   Marty
I've been to just about every game for 5 years

I am in awe.

2005-09-19 16:56:11
227.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know if "awe" is the right word to describe someone who has seen ever Clipper home game for the last five years.

I need to get a DSM-IV-R. :-)

2005-09-19 16:58:40
228.   blue22
216 - I had Bradley penciled in as the switch-hitting CF batting 3rd, in between Drew and Kent, making only about $5M next year.

It will be interesting to see if Depo decides to non-tender or dump him for nothing. That will go a long way to see if this "character" issue is for real.

2005-09-19 17:00:04
229.   Icaros
The only time I've had the chance to sit in a luxury box at Staples was at a Clippers preseason game a couple years ago.

Really cool, but I spent nearly the whole time watching the Cubs-Marlins NLCS game on the TV.

2005-09-19 17:02:20
230.   blue22
219 - I've heard that complaint not just about the Clippers, but all LA fans.

It seems to be a rite of passage, to boo all ex-LA players.

How did Shawn Green get greeted this year?

2005-09-19 17:03:07
231.   Howard Fox
my choice for most likely to succeed of the prospects Jon discusses is Carlos Santana, how can he miss with a name like that?
2005-09-19 17:06:31
232.   Bob Timmermann
Green's reaction was mixed. Lo Duca's is still positive.

Finley was booed.

2005-09-19 17:09:06
233.   Marty
I got to sit in my company's luxury box at Staples for a Laker's pre-season game. The one that Rick Fox decided to take on all of the Sacramento Kings at once. I have to say, those boxes are a nice way to see a game. I got to sign for the bill too. 16 people can run up a good-sized one.
2005-09-19 17:15:47
234.   blue22
I sat at Staples for a Kings/Flyers game in a box once. It was right above and behind one of the goals, kinda like the old video games.

IMO, best way to see a hockey game, as you could really see the plays develop (especially power plays).

2005-09-19 17:23:52
235.   FirstMohican
I was reading earlier posts and someone mentioned the 22 inning game in '89 against the Astros. Having watched that game (for as long as I was allowed to stay up), I was curious about the boxscore. At retrosheet I noticed (in addition to another 22inning game that I hadn't known about) that the last game of the season lasted 12 innings. Orel Hershiser pitched 11 of them.

Does anyone know how many pitches he pitched in that game? Seems crazy considering the standings that a pitcher would go 11 in the last game of the season. Didn't Hershiser have surgery in '90?

2005-09-19 17:28:46
236.   Bob Timmermann
235

Yep, the Braves insisted on having one of the games in their season ending series against the Dodgers played because they drew so poorly then. The weather was awful. Lasorda agreed to throw Hershiser that day to help out the Braves. It was supposed to be a doubleheader, but they cancelled the second game (and the third one was obviously not made up.)

Hershiser threw a lot in 1988 and 1989. Especially by today's standards.

We just thought Orel was courageous was then. He did come back from his shoulder surgery and he had some effective years although not as great as 1988, but that may have been the case with or without surgery.

2005-09-19 17:30:59
237.   Tommy Naccarato
Icaros,
I was just talking with my best friend about this last night. I haven't been in the boxes at Staples, but I've experienced them at Anaheim Stadium and The Pond.

We both agreed the Pond is a pretty cool place to watch either a game or a concert from, while watching an Angels game from a box on the 1st base side, it was really sort of just average. We stayed around about an hour and then went to his family's normal seats behind home plate, field level. (They are long time Angel fans and former business partners with Nolan Ryan)

When I asked him the comparison of Staples vs. The Pond, he said it was The Pond hands down.

I have to admit, I liked it up there, but baseball, keep me near the action!

2005-09-19 17:31:04
238.   Bob Timmermann
In the bottom of the 5th, the Pirates lead the Astros (and Roger Clemens) 2-0. The Pirates already have seven hits.

The Pirates are pitching Ian Snell.

Cleveland jumped ahead of Chicago 1-0 in the 1st. Millwood vs. Garcia.

Baltimore leads New York 2-0
Tampa Bay leads Boston 4-2

2005-09-19 17:36:08
239.   Steve
They should take basketball, baseball, and football, combine them together, play it indoors, and call it Baseketball. It's gold, Jerry! Gold!
2005-09-19 17:38:35
240.   Tommy Naccarato
Or they could call it "Roundtine."

Gold! I tell you, gold!

2005-09-19 17:38:38
241.   Bob Timmermann
2-0 Cleveland now.

Please have the White Sox miss the playoffs! Please! Oh please! Please!

2005-09-19 17:41:11
242.   Tommy Naccarato
Jon,
Is there anyway to get an updated estimated Dodger payroll?
2005-09-19 17:41:49
243.   Steve
Wouldn't the White Sox missing mean the Yankees would need to get the wild card?

I have mixed feelings about this.

2005-09-19 17:42:03
244.   Eric L
I'm not sure I would like to see a team that I actually care about from one of the boxes.

I've sat in one at Anaheim. Yesterday, I was able to sit in one in San Diego. It certainly doesn't have the same feel as being down in the seats.

2005-09-19 17:44:23
245.   Steve
I sat in a luxury suite at the Epicenter in Rancho Cucamonga.

High rollin', indeed.

2005-09-19 17:44:23
246.   Marty
Yeah, for baseball, a sky box seems to be a bad idea. I'd like to sit in those ground-level seats behind home plate at Dodger Stadium once. You have wait-service I've heard. Plus you can be on your cell phone and wave at the camera at the same time!
2005-09-19 17:45:53
247.   Marty
"luxury" and "Rancho Cucamonga" don't usually come up at the same time.
2005-09-19 17:48:17
248.   Tommy Naccarato
I hadn't seen anyone mention it here, but did anyone happen to catch that Geffen wants to buy the LA Times? And of course, the Tribune says its not for sale..

I also forgot to mention that I went to cancel the Times a month ago, and they lowered the price AGAIN! I'm now paying like $6.00 a month for everyday delivery.

2005-09-19 17:54:18
249.   molokai
Don't understand the concept of the boxes at Staples center for basketball. If your interested in the game, they are far away. Yelling at players is just wasted breath.

227
I love my Clips. While it has been a sad sack franchise they have won more playoff games then the Dodgers over the last 17 years. Sad but true.

2005-09-19 17:56:19
250.   molokai
244
Completely agree. Unless the food and drink are free I don't see the point.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-09-19 18:07:31
251.   das411
219 - IF you were a true Philly fan, what would you throw at him?? :-D

Random trivia question for everybody: Is there any way to look up how many different countries' pitchers Bonds has homered off of? Just off the top of my head I come up with:

Taiwan (Kuo)
South Korea (Park, Kim?)
Canada (Gagne)
USA (pick a Dodger...)

possibles include:
Mexico (Fernando? maybe?)
Cuba (Contreras? Duque? his old friend Livan?)
Venezuela (Padilla?)
Panama (Chen Bruce? Mariano?)

Any idea where I might find others?

2005-09-19 18:28:30
252.   Eric L
247

Maybe in the old days luxury and Rancho didn't go together, but the city has changed alot. Victoria Gardens is pretty nice. When I lived in the area as a little kid (over 20 years ago now) Rancho Cucamonga seemed like it was mostly grapevines.

2005-09-19 18:30:38
253.   Eric L
244

Sorry for more than one post guys. The free food and drinks are the best things the luxury boxes have going for them.

The box we were in down in San Diego yesterday also had a big screen hi-def tv. I think I paid more attention to the Chargers-Broncos game than the baseball game.

2005-09-19 18:57:11
254.   Bob Timmermann
For Mexico, if not Fernando, I'm sure that Bonds has homered against Dessens or Loaiaza.

Vicente Padilla is from Nicaragua not Venezuela. But there are plenty of other Venezuelans that Bonds could have homered off of. Padilla has not given up a home run to Bonds. However, Bonds has homered off of Dennis Martinez, so that takes care of Nicaragua.

The first 63 home runs in Bonds career were hit off U.S. residents.
#64 was against Dominican Pascual Perez.
The next country he got was Nicaragua (Dennis Martinez).
Then Mexico (Rosario Rodriguez).
Then Canada (Rheal Cormier) [there may have been a Canadian before Cormier, but if so, he was a stealthy Canadian]
Then Venezuela (Omar Daal)
(Bonds did homer off of Fernando in 1994)
Then Cuba (Rene Arocha)
Then Japan (Hideo Nomo)
Then Korea (Chan Ho Park)
Then Panama (Bruce Chen)
Then Australia (Graeme Lloyd)
Then Taiwan (Hong-Chih Kuo)

If you want to consider Puerto Rico separate, that's covered.

And there have likely been a military brat here or there that would add a few European countries.

2005-09-19 19:00:41
255.   Bob Timmermann
Astros lose to the Pirates 7-0. In a game Clemens started no less.

Padres and Rockies tied at 5-5 in the 4th.

Yankees and Orioles tied at 2-2 going to the 9th.

DRays lead the Red Sox 7-6 in the 7th.

White Sox and Indians tied 4-4 after 4.

Oakland about start at home against Minnesota.

Arrested Development starts at 8.

2005-09-19 19:16:36
256.   Bob Timmermann
OK, now looking for guys born in Europe or other non-obvious places

Bonds has covered:

England (Lance Painter)
Germany (Craig Lefferts)
Aruba (Sidney Ponson)

2005-09-19 19:32:13
257.   blue22
Caution: Smartball in progress.

Carl Everett with a two-out homer to take the lead 5-4, ChiSox.

2005-09-19 19:36:00
258.   Bob Timmermann
The Yankees have won 3-2 on a walkoff homer from "old friend" Bubba Crosby.

Red Sox trail Tampa Bay 8-6 in the 8th.

Oakland up 1-0 on Minnesota. The Return of Bobby Crosby!

2005-09-19 19:37:18
259.   Bob Timmermann
Oh and San Diego ahead of Colorado 7-6 in the 6th.
2005-09-19 19:38:10
260.   das411
256 See, I was going to address the post to just Bob T, cause he is the master at finding stuff like this.

Then I figured "Why not leave it open for the entire board to guess?"

Then I saw 254.

I think you still have half an hour until 8 PT, right Bob? Does anybody else have more than Bonds's 16 (sure, 15 +1 for Puerto Rico) countries? I would think the most likely guys to check next are Sosa, Palmiero, and maybe Canseco? Or in the non-asterisk division, Griffey, the Crime Dog, and maybe Bagwell or Frank Thomas. Enjoy!

2005-09-19 19:40:50
261.   D4P
255

Those of us on the East Coast have already watched it twice. Great episode. As usual, you have to watch it multiple times to catch all the subtleties. I liked it better the second time, and I'll probably like it even better the third.

2005-09-19 19:42:05
262.   Bob Timmermann
There are a very few countries that major league pitchers have been born in that have played during Bonds career that he missed.

He didn't hit one off of the lone pitcher born in France (Charlie Lea). Bert Blyleven (Netherlands) was in the wrong league. As was Jeff Bronkey (Afghanistan).

There haven't been any Ireland born pitchers since the 1940s.

2005-09-19 19:43:10
263.   Bob Timmermann
Ken Griffey Jr. has hit a home run off of Jeff Bronkey so that may be one extra country for him.
2005-09-19 19:48:46
264.   Steve
What if FOX had cancelled AD last spring as threatened? Summer would have been darker.
2005-09-19 19:49:55
265.   Bob Timmermann
Griffey has many of the same countries as Bonds. He has Afghanistan and the Netherlands, but he doesn't have Korea or Taiwan.

But he's got Panama, Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Japan, Cuba, Mexico, etc.

2005-09-19 19:50:50
266.   Telemachos
Not to drift further off-topic, but the Internet is really a small, small world.

I'm messing around with this awesome new Firefox plugin called StumbleUpon (it basically randomly sends you to various sites based on your interests), and it just sent me, completely out of the blue, to:

http://www.ericenders.com/noir25.htm

Can this be the Eric Enders? :)

2005-09-19 19:50:57
267.   D4P
It would be a dark day indeed if AD ever gets cancelled. I live in constant fear of such an event. I'm actually surprised it has lasted as long as it has.
2005-09-19 19:51:56
268.   Bob Timmermann
Padres and Rockies are tied at 7-7 after 6. It's an old-fashioned Coors game. There have been a lot of base runners.

The game should end around 9.

2005-09-19 19:52:41
269.   Bob Timmermann
266
That's the guy. Clever name for his website, eh?
2005-09-19 19:55:11
270.   Bob Timmermann
As they would say in Boston, Aaron (BLEEP)-in' Boone.
2005-09-19 20:00:18
271.   Steve
Nice of them to schedule an off-day for the AD season premiere. The A's are playing, but the only suspense from them is whether they will score one or two runs.
2005-09-19 20:02:02
272.   Bob Timmermann
Or in today's case, five runs.
2005-09-19 20:31:12
273.   Bob Timmermann
Padres lead 8-7 in the 9th on a Greene home run off of Fuentes.
2005-09-19 20:41:20
274.   Sam DC
So, how are things at HopetheWhiteSoxdon'tmaketheplayoffs Thoughts?
2005-09-19 20:41:53
275.   Bob Timmermann
San Diego magic number:

8

2005-09-19 20:42:27
276.   Bob Timmermann
Cleveland 7, Chicago 5 - Final

Chicago lead cut to 2 1/2!

2005-09-19 20:43:41
277.   Bob Timmermann
Dodgers tragic number:

6

2005-09-19 21:00:21
278.   Steve
Is the enemy of my enemy...my friend?
2005-09-19 21:18:27
279.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Jon does not like the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" axiom.
2005-09-19 22:09:04
280.   Steve
This is something like an emergency situation.
2005-09-19 22:12:39
281.   Bob Timmermann
Never in doubt, eh?
2005-09-19 23:32:31
282.   Xeifrank
225. Yep Livingston is the real deal. I was surprised they signed Sam Cassell in the offseason after they already had picked up Mobley. Livingston will shortly be the 2nd best baller in LA. vr, Xei
2005-09-19 23:33:55
283.   Xeifrank
233. I was at that game too. Of course my seats weren't quite as good, but given that I had access to some reasonably priced seats I've seen some of the big Laker playoff games vs the Kings and Spurs over the years. Lakers aren't going to see the NBA Finals for a long time. vr, Xei

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