[Ms. Sam, reading newspaper]: "I thought you said the Dodgers' season was awful and they didn't make the playoffs?"

[Sam DC]: "Right."

[Ms. Sam]: "Well, this says they're in the playoffs. They play the Yankees today."

[Sam DC]: "That's the Angels. They play the Yankees."

[Ms. Sam]: "Well, it says right here, Los Angeles versus New York."

Ouch . . .

The "most similar fielder" (whatever that means) to Cesar Izturis is Jim Edmonds. Which I guess means I'm going to have to become an Izturis hater like everyone else around here.

I'm hoping he comes back healthier and lower in the batting order by the end of next season.

Nice work.

A lamentation; a writing or speech in a strain of grief or distress; a doleful complaint; a complaining tirade; a lugubrious effusion.

FWIW, Howard Stern's crew is complaining about how the Yankee game will be on "at 2:00" tonight.

"jeremigiambiad. - n. a lamentation, tirade, etc. made after your favorite team's player makes an error that costs them a crucial game."

When I was a young pup and living in Germany we didn't have TV or radio so I lived baseball through my baseball cards. I liked or disliked players based on how they looked on the cards. Vic Davilillo's 1964 card for some reason was always one of my favorites, so he became a favorite player of mine. He was even more of a favorite after that bunt single in 77.

Tony Jackson of the Daily news continues to propogate that the Drew contract was a disaster. I wonder what he thinks of the Beltre contract?

payroll is gonna be $80 million?
shawn green "patrolled" the clubhouse?

what?

"DePodesta will be hamstrung by the unwieldy contracts he gave out last winter"

Kent - a signing that worked out beyond my wildest expectations.

Lowe - not great, but OK so far.

Drew - It's reasonable to expect Drew to play 500 more games for the dodgers with a 900 ops for $44M. If he plays 140 games with a 900 ops in 2006 for 11M and leaves, that's OK too.

Valentin - we're out $4M. Does that hamstring us?

Beltre - Depo didn't sign him. The Mariners are hamstrung with his contract.

Finley - I guess we would have been better off with him than Valentin.

Green - I suppose Depo could have extended him through 2007 for an additional $16M. That might have worked out about like the Lowe deal. Of course, we wouldn't be hamstrung by Navarro's arb years.

I didn't pay much attention to the FA outcomes (other than the Dodgers and ex-Dodgers.) Anyone have a quick list of the FA bargains?

The 2002 Brewers ranked 4th out of 30 MLB teams in sacrifices, even though there was rarely anyone to bunt over -- they ranked last in MLB in OBP.

They also had a below average 65% success rate in stealing bases, which may or may not indicate that he's overly fond of the hit-and-run.

Jackson claims the Dodgers need four power bats next season at all four corner spots. I don't really agree with the assessment that the Dodgers need a power hitting firstbaseman and thirdbaseman. The Choi/Seanz platoon was actually effective and with a power hitting secondbaseman in tow, the team could afford a high OBP yet light hitting thirdbaseman.

We need one big bat. Two if Bradley doesn't return.

Your recap of that Phillies game brought back some great memories, of Vic Davalillo in particular.

But did you really use the words "J.D.Drew" and "productive" in the same sentence in talking about the 2005 season?

the pool of available outfielders is small enough and we need one already. making it 2 by ditching bradley isn't going to help things any.

Anyone heard a rehab schedule for Milton? Full strength by ST?

My best case for the corners is:
1b: Choi/Saenz
3b: LaRoche
LF: Abreu/Giles
RF: Drew (Bradley in CF)

We should get 90+ HR from that group. And that's 1 new bat from the outside.

2nd best case:
RF: Cruz Jr. with Drew in CF

Pencil in Antonio at SS and you've got 8 tough outs for the first time in LA Dodger history (at least in my memory).

I remember clearly seeing the Dodgers get beat by Baltimore in 66'; St. Louis behind the genius of Bob Gibson beat the Carl Yaz & Rico Petrocelli Red Sox in 67'; in 68' it was Detroit with Denny McClain & Mickey Lolich beating St. Louis.

I will never forget every kid in class rooting against Baltimore in 69' those amazing Mets delivered, but we hated it the next year when the Orioles came back and beat Cincinnati on the back of a Dave McNally grand slam.

Oh the memories!

[sigh] I grew up in a basketball town, so we always got that treatment for the NCAA Tournament but, alas, never the World Series.

About the NCAA Tournament, we never got to see that, but one game that I slightly remember, and I think it was UCLA vs Houston? (I ccan't remember)

Anyway, little did I know then that eventually "Lefty Lynn From The Corner" would become one of my golf buddies.

Who is the subjectivist's pick for second-most valuable Dodger in 2005?

Great memories, by the way!

Anyway, by that reckoning the SSMVP of the 2005 Dodgers is (drumroll, please) Mike Edwards. He can play the infield and the outfield.

i'm guessing it's probaby olmedo saenz. olmedo was good starting or off the bench, he "played" two positions, didn't go on the DL the whole season, played through back pain, had the 2nd most RBIs on the whole team, never complained, was a "thoroughly professional hitter", and most importantly, kept that worthless korean guy on the bench for significant periods of time.

Oscar Robles
Duaner Sanchez

That said, I agree that he is our best option, Plaschke be damned. Furthermore, I'm more concerned about his pattern of getting injured. The blow-ups, while distracting and supplying fodder for the press, don't really lose ballgames for the most part. His injuries hurt the team much more, IMHO.

SSMVP: Repko, for playing hard every second he's on the field. Great arm, great baserunner.

While that's all true, another obvious pattern is that he's been causing less trouble with each ensuing year.

http://firemacha.blogspot.com

None the less, the candidates were:

--Oscar Robles: Did a great job in filling in for the Gold Glover of last year.

--Wille Aybar: Us Subjectivists wanted to name a candy bar after him called, "The Aybar" or "Willie Bar."

We Subjectivists expect great things from Willie in 2006, which will undoubtedly mean he'll get traded to a pennant contender at the trading deadline next season. Why it took so long to bring him up in the first place is beyond me. Even though the season was over in mid-May, by God they could have won the division if they had.

Lets face it, this guy is never going to have a succesful career as a Dodger. He'll find success as a player in another city. We might as well accept this now.

--Jason Repko: We liked his hustle. It reminded us of the days of Butler & Finley, now only if they both could hit.

--Hee Sop Bok Choi The Subjectivists are still trying to figure out why someone who strikes most everytime he gets a bat in his hand, gets so much respect & praise from the UberSabers. It's as almost if the UberSaber's have channeled the strengths of Sun Yung Kim (leader of the Moonies) for complaining alone.

And yes, Jim Spacey should have given him a chance to hit from the other side, but look at it this way, if he did, he still might be manager.

--Jose Cruz Jr.: Some might not think too much of Josie, but the Subjectivists think with a little seasoning he could become the next Juan Encarcinon. Perfect multiple player trade bait for when they shuttle Aybar, Robles and Jeff Kent off at next year's trading deadline. Sign him now otherwise we might have to include another future talent in the deal.

--Antonio Perez: Antonio never got a chance to fully prove himself. He'll be able to do so by late May when the Dodgers are out of the 2006 season by then. Terry Collins will hate him because he doesn't know how to be obedient and just because Terry Collins doesn't think any of his players have ever been obedient-period!

And the winner is...... (The envelope Bob)

Willie Aybar!

I suppose this is going to cement my reputation as Milton Bradley's Biggest Fan, but why would those promises mean nothing now? I mean, he didn't exactly break the promises he made before. He attended the anger management classes. He was much more friendy to the media. He promised to control his anger better, and did, with a notable exception. He promised not to get ejected from a single game in 2005, and kept that promise. Only once did he express any anger at the ballpark, and that was after a heart-to-heart talk with the manager from which he emerged in tears. Even his domestic troubles, which bother me more than all his other baggage combined, appear to have been at least somewhat overblown. (At least in my opinion, after listening to the 911 call.) And Kent's already given the green light for Bradley's return, removing Milton's only real in-house obstacle.

I'm not saying he's a saint, or a candidate for world's best husband. But he still seems to be on the road to getting his act together, albeit ambling down that road at a leisurely pace.

I like Olmeado, The rest of the voting Subjectivists didn't. So it goes.....

While I'm high on both Aybar and Cruz (for the money, in anyway), does anyone think packaging, say, the two of them (or perhaps A. Perez instead of Aybar) would garner a worthy player in return?

What about Aybar/Cruz/Odalis Perez?

Realistically, we don't have much trade-bait, unless we ship Kent somewhere or offer a pile of our highly regarded prospects.

If not Pittsburgh, what is left for Tracy? Florida to re-unite with Loduca? Although I still predict Loduca gets traded to make room for Josh Willingham in a cost cutting move.

With Macha gone, I've got to think that Washington is the favorite for that job, which means his odds of coming to LA go down quite a bit. So that's a little disappointing. As much as he's an unknown, I'm not sure any of the other candidates excite me any more.

Anyone else wondering just how pissed off Gady Fuson is about now? I always thought that the reason he left Oakland for Texas was that he understand that the GM job would be his as soon as Hart steps down. And to passed over for a 28 year old. That couldn't have gone over too well.

"Does my record speak for itself? I think it's fair to say that there's certainly a strong possibility that it does."

Didn't somebody say here yesterday that Bob Geren was being groomed by Beane to be the next A's manager?

Thanks for including the look back at that game with the Phillies. It's still my favorite 9th inning ever (especially the Davalillo bunt).

I apologize if this was mentioned in the previous chat and I just missed it, but did anyone notice this Plaschke quote about Choi:
"In other words, he didn't give a whit about the tiny size of Hee-Seop Choi's contract; the big stiff couldn't play."

The big stiff couldn't play?

Isn't this line unbelievably inane, even by Plaschke's standards?

I don't even think Tracy would have said that about Choi.

Todd Hollandsworth was left off the roster. So was Dan Kolb.

And the Astros take the early lead in the Low Ratings Series.

Orlando Palmeiro is starting?

His backup, Raul Chavez, was at 472.

They are the Dave Ross-Brent Mayne combo of the 2005 playoffs.

http://tinyurl.com/c3kya is his bio on the A's website.

Geren had a very successful career managing in the A's minor leagues, and is now the bullpen coach in the bigs.

that would be a delicious, HILARIOUS irony if tracy becomes the manager of the marlins only to have his precious dukie traded away AGAIN. hahahahah

i bet if he goes to florida he will ask for a no-loduca-trade clause or something.

(Kirk Gibson, you ask? This never quite seemed real to me. My reaction was to sit stock still and say "I don't believe this word Jon doesn't want on his website.")

And you want to hear something awful? Last week Manny Mota was in the office where I work and nobody told me until after he'd left. It was a reception for dignitaries from the Dominican Republic.

Of course, I was 11 years old, and was thereafter disappointed every time in 1989 and '90 he didn't hit a homer on demand.

I fully expect to see Mondesi and Hollandsworth doing tonight's games. Since they aren't needed by the Braves anymore.

Chris Kahrl told me that Game 1 of the 1988 WS so upset him that he went and drank several shots of whiskey (or tequila). I forget which.

I guess I was that intimidated by Eck in those days. Just reach base...a homerun was an afterthought.

And poor Mike Davis never gets any credit for drawing a 2-out walk against a guy that walked, what, 4 guys that year.

I was 13, btw.

I only respect you for your mind.

Eckersley walked a whopping 11 batters in 1988.

He walked 3 in 1989 and 4 in 1990.

If the same situation happened now, this slightly jaded 28 year old probably would be scared to death of seeing the Dodgers play a similar team to the '88 A's.

Is that kind of like being called short by Phil Rizzuto?

Hey, a guy can dream...

Josh Willingham cannot catch and will never be a major league starting catcher. He will be the next Craig Wilson.

Would the Mets fans at BTF howl if the Mets picked up LoDuca?

I also didn't fear Storm Davis at all.

I was in 8th grade in '88 and, except for the Rams finally winning a Superbowl, the sports world has been decidedly unmagical ever since. The Lakers have provided some nice moments, but I expected those.

Or because he's Choi's best friend.

Seriously, it's hard to know whether to interpret Jackson's statement as "All Penny's teammates hate him" or "Penny refused me an interview last time I asked."

Macha - maybe
Dierker - almost zero

Collins
Geren
Macha
Hayes
Dierker

He's lived there a long time. He survived a dangerous blood vessel problem in his brain. He's got a nice job as a TV analyst. Why would he want to take another job?

One wonders how well Mrs. Lisa Guerrero was liked also?

For all I know, though, he could be a bunting, Olney-loving, Korean-first-baseman-hating foolio.

We could bring in Barry Zito and he could have a CY Young year next year, but because he plays his guitar in the clubhouse, I bet a few wont like him. Or because he's more 'hollywood' than they are...

Meh.

Until the Playboy spread comes out in January.

A better idea for someone that cerebral, I think, would be to hire him in the front office and let him spend a couple years learning the benefits of sabermetrics. Then in case New Manager X fails for whatever reason, guess who's waiting.

And I promise, this will be my last post that contains the words "Alyssa" or "Milano".

For real?

Dave Hansen once played me a Pearl Jam song in the Dodger clubhouse. His teammates didn't seem to mind.

I understand that if you're a member of the A's, playing your guitar in the clubhouse is a contractual requirement. Even Huston Street has picked it up from Zito already.

But I really just read the magazine to get allergic reactions to the cologne ads.

http://www.yard-work.org/?p=412

While chemistry may be overblown I think getting rid of players like Sammy Sosa who dominate a clubhouse can only be a good thing.

And why would anyone get upset about losing Alyssa Milano? Would anyone really want be like #30th of men on her list.

Being #2-#7 is a good range.

I'd feel uncomfortable being #1, or anything after #7.

zito... penny... milano... HOLLYWOOD BABY!

Sandy Koufax made his eighth major league appearance by pitching in relief on August 31, 1955 against the Braves in a 13-8 loss at Ebbets Field. In the worst outing of his young major league career, Sandy gave up 5 hits and 4 runs in 1 plus inning of work. Sandy's pitching line was 5 hits and 4 earned runs, with no walks or strikeouts

Thanks to the book Koufax, written by Sandy and Ed Linn, and retrosheet.

Stan from Tacoma

Did the announcer actually think Orlando Palmeiro could hit a grand slam? And that would have crushed Devine (he's already given up 2 in 5 IP)

i bet delgado goes to the red sox. just a hunch.

2. He was still pretty darn good in New York, although Shea Stadium disguised that a little bit.

In addition to the obvious stuff, he has basically every intangible that it's possible to have. He hits for power, he gets on base. He plays Gold Glove CF. He is the best baserunner in MLB, and owns the best stolen base percentage in baseball history. He's "clutch" in the playoffs, if you believe in that sort of thing.

He's also a Republican, but hey, nobody's perfect.

The length of Beltran's contract scares me more than anything else.

Mike Cameron is widely reported as available. He's one of the few players who can please the Saber- crowd and the Cranky Boys: a slick-fielding outfielder and Three True Outcomes hitter who has some pop/. Plus I hear he gets his uniform dirty, and he doesn't have any problems with black people.

And Newsday was reporting the M's offered Beltre to the Angels a few weeks ago and were rebuffed. If that were true, I would pay to watch Plaschke try and explain it.

Joel Pineiro may be available, but the M's may ask a steep price because. Like Washburn, his impressive performances hide frightening peripherals.

This game is fun.

Give it time.

Oh, wait. They are.

Those impressive performances were two years ago before arm surgery. Not sure what was impressive about him this year. His K/9 rate has totally tanked. He might be someone I'd take a chance on because I really liked him before surgery but I would not give up much to find out.

Why trade for Cameron when MB is basically better and younger?

Word is that the the Phillies might eat upto 1/2 of Thome's contract to trade him.

Who would you rather have Delgado/Thome/Choi based on performance/salary?

I'll keep Choi and trade for Abreu instead.

Skip Caray: "Why does every ex-Dodger become a broadcaster?"
Joe Simpson: "Probably because we were taught to play the game right."

Then Skip went and listed a bunch of ex-Dodgers who were broadcasters. They debated about whether or not Charlie Steiner played for the Dodgers. Joe Simpson told him no.

I think Skip's attitude is summed up by his line (likely borrowed from his dad):
The bases are loaded again and I wish I was too.

Choi is obviously a better value, but we need the extra production badly enough to overpay for it, and we also have the resources to do so.

Call me crazy, but what about signing Frank Thomas to an incentive-laden one-year contract and platooning him with Choi? He's no J.T. Snow at first base, but then neither were Phillips and Saenz.

Not that any of this affects the Dodgers any, as I really don't see him wanting to manage LA, but I could be wrong.

Macha, Collins and, actually, Washington, are the names that don't make me barf.

Just "result". They mean to say "win", but they always say "result".

If they just want a tie, they will say so.

So a Bradley package for Abreu or Manny would be joyous. And McCourt's Red Sox envy could factor in again.

His defense in left is no worse than Bonds or Klesko, is it?

Abreu: 2-5, 2B
Kemp: 1-5, 2Ks (including one with the bases loaded)
Loney: 0-2 (reached on an error and grounded out after Kemp K'd, came in as PH)

And Miller/Broxton will not follow in Schmoll's footsteps, as Daigle is closing

Phoenix is now 2-0

...we now go...to 'Matlock.'"

And it was impossible to tell which of those two events he was more excited about.

If you were wondering, the Rockies picked up Jaime Cerda off waivers from Kansas City. Huge blow that the Dodgers couldn't get him ;)

Choi, simply because he stands the best chance to remain healthy for the entire season, thereby not putting the onerus burden on old man Olmedo again.

Free agent slugging outfielders are in short supply and the farm system isn't generating anything outside of infielders and pitchers. The more I look at what this roster lacks, what the free agent market offers, and possible players for acquisition via trade, the more I worry. For all the talk about Adam Dunn in Dodger blue next year, there are other teams with cash and prospects to make an equal-or-better offer to the Reds.

At this point, I'd be happy with a corner outfielder/leadoff hitter known for his high OBP (doesn't necessarily need to steal bases) and a boatload of options for the bullpen.

178 - Watching Manny field is in a class all its own. He'll usually tiptoe up to the ball, yet it'll still get by him about 20-25% of the time. When he finally does gain control of the ball to throw it back to the infield, it has an uncanny resemblance to a girl trying to throw a banana peel into a dumpster.

But, man, what a bat.

Could it be a good thing that the two highest profile Dodgers are making some noise? Maybe their voices will make some things happen as far as acquiring some legitimate talent to surround the developing youngsters rather than a riff-raff stop-gap like Jose Valentin.

"I'm honored to have my name involved," Collins said. "I work in a whole different department than the major league team, but are we on the same page? The answer is yes. Our communication is really good."

Of course, this has been discussed ad naseum here at DT. I shouldn't even have expanded on it really.

Given a choice between two proven guys (thome, delgado) who may or may not be on their last legs, or a guy we don't even know can do the job (despite what the number say). Tough call.

184
Hard to find exactly what your looking for. JD Drew would fit the bill but in a quick search of players with an OB% > 380 and who had > 250 at bats almost all of the players are sluggers who would not normally slot in as a lead off player. Jason Michals and Kenny Lofton from the Phillies fit the criteria for high OBP but 2005 could be a fluke season for Michaels and who knows if Lofton can do it again.

Drew/Bradley/and a platoon of Cruz/Werth should be good enough if we have Ledee as the #4. Was this a one-time leg injury to Ledee that we can assume will be completely healed by next season? Or has he had previous seasons cut short due to leg injuries?

Or we could give them Jeff Shaw as compensation! ;-) It wouldn't make up for losing him the first time, but almost would. Still has some upside, in fact, I think he's incredibly underrated.

or conversely,

3B Aybar
CF/LF/LF Bradley/Giles/Matsui/Dunn
RF/CF Drew
2B Kent
LF/RF Cruz, Jr.
1B Choi
C Navarro
SS Izturis

Obviously, lineup placement would depend somewhat on who ends up in the outfield... but these strike me as not only a possibility, but perhaps even a strong probability.

I also think it's a pretty damn solid lineup.

Now to fix the starting pitching....

If we lower the bar a little to OBP > 350, then Matt Lawton and Frank Catalanotto come to mind. I don't want Drew leading off, and I hope I never see Lofton in a Dodger uni. I doubt the Phillies are ready to throw in the towel on Michaels either.

The Blue Jays come to mind; more free agent money than us and young talent above AA. Both New York teams and the Red Sox also come to mind, especially if Theo Epstein can get someone to take ManRam off his hands.

I've not seen these reports. Can someone point me to them? I saw Kent's quotes that sort of combined (in a clever, Cal-grad kind of way) trust in DePo with an implicit threat that if DePo doesn't live up to what he trusts him to do, he'll have something to say. I've seen rien from Gagne, other than his Arizona open house offer to Duaner and Sir Edwin.

I guess any team's stars would be concerned about change. But the change is only half-finished. DePo should underscore that Tracy's gloomy forecast for 2006 was one big reason he was canned. Tracy's flat wrong, just making another alibi, this one in advance. Look at it as motivation, boys.

My point was that, as of right now, I think L.A. has to have as good a shot as anyone, if not the best.

Now that I'm done writing it, I see we have another barnburner of a playoff game. But at least it might extend a series to a fourth game.

Quote from Gagne:
"I don't want to be here if we're just going to play kids and rebuild. Yeah, I put my name on a contract, and I respect that. But the Dodgers' logo was on top of that contract - not the Milwaukee Brewers or the (Triple-A) Las Vegas 51s."

Gagne said some other things that may be worthy of discussion, but I don't want to qoute too much.

The Mets seem to have "shot the moon" last year in free agency money, but don't underestimate their desire to stick it to the Yankees.

That is why I consider them players for Adam Dunn, in addition to the Blue Jays.

The Dodgers indeed have a great shot to land Dunn, but to say they have the best shot is a bit of an overstatement, IMO.

But one of the ousted manager's parting shots clearly indicated he didn't think the Dodgers will be serious contenders in 2006.

That said, I suppose Gagne has a point about the bleeping Dodgers, and why they aren't more like the bleeping Yankees. "Just go spend the bleeping money and bring in some bleeping good players" is a tempting way to think.

Gagne will be free soon enough to sign with the Yankee's to replace the aging Riveria.

Plus they gave significant playing time to Russell Branyan, which is pretty cool.

Too bad they're not still in the AL. I need me a team over there.

Jon, while you are correct on pure numbers and it seems that Green is definitely on the downside of his carrer. By pure numbers he was overpaid, Dionner seems like a real keeper. However while the cummaltive VORP benefits the Dodgers, had the Dodgers had Drew and Green, their payroll would have been at or near 100million-what McCourt said he would have his payroll at. Green's 22hr's and 73 RBI and 832 OPS cupled with What Drew did-it seems that would have been a potent lineup. While it would have displaced Choi for much of the year, until the injuries set in, I would argue that Green's average numbers but with some pop would have been more valuable this past year.

psst! oakland.