Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
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"They get the messages I've been sending, they are very good teachers, and they're very good at implementing my ideas."
Well, isn't that a refreshing approach? So, who are "they?"
"They" are Jim Tracy's coaches with the Dodgers. Apparently, listening skills and doing what is asked of you are very important to the former Dodger manager - except, of course, when he's the one being asked to listen and heed.
In any case, Tracy will bring pitching coach Jim Colborn and bench coach Jim Lett with him to Pittsburgh, with first-base coach John Shelby perhaps on the way, according to Joe Rutter in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.
Rutter adds in a separate article that Tracy "can rapidly recite the numbers he produced in five years with the Los Angeles Dodgers: Four winning seasons, 427 wins, one NL West championship and the franchise's first playoff game victory in 16 years." Something tells me that Tracy hasn't memorized how many losses he has had.
Do I sound bitter? I only mean to sound really, really annoyed, and only because just about each time he opens his mouth these days, Tracy reveals an astonishingly deeper lack of perspective.
"The challenge is something I like very much," Tracy said, according to Rutter. "I take a lot of pride in people saying this is a situation where you don't have a chance to succeed. I'm really challenged by that."
Well shoot, then Tracy should have loved 2005 in Los Angeles, since we had Tracy telling Tracy he was in a situation where he had no chance to succeed. The only problem was that Tracy doesn't like being told he is in a situation where he does have a chance to succeed. Given that optimistic assessment from the Dodger front office, Tracy chose to find reasons to prove his bosses wrong.
But yeah, 2006 plays right into Tracy's make-me-an-overachiever hands. Columnist Bob Smizik of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette is realistic about the Pirates' new manager:
With Tracy on the job, the Pirates will get the immediate lift that occurs almost any time a new manager steps into a losing situation. The players will naturally feel better about themselves because they'll see this as a new beginning and as an end to the darkness of losing that prevailed within the team. Tracy will have new ideas and new ways of presenting those ideas. Spring training will have an edge of excitement to it. But when the first real pitch comes in April, a manager isn't going to make a major difference.
His greatest chance of impact is not with fresh ideas, innovative strategy or improved lines of communication, but rather with better players. Hopefully, there will be the expected improvement in the young players that comes with experience and maturation, but it doesn't always work that way. There's rarely a smooth curve to success for baseball players.
Bucs Dugout has started to read Dodger Thoughts and other articles to get some other points of view on Tracy - and the folks there are getting a little nervous. I'd like to tell them I was rooting for them. There is almost no ex-Dodger I don't wish the best, but I find it impossible to root for people who have no humility. Eric Karros became one of those people, and Jim Tracy, I'm really sorry to say, has become another. I used to root for them both, but even Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan are more humble than these two.
Not that Tracy needs to worry about me - his new contract will guarantee him at least $3.2 million before it expires, about $2.5 million more than the Dodgers guaranteed him, according to Steve Henson in the Times. Pretty impressive, considering the contract also comes with such low expectations.
Henson also reports that Tracy had gotten strong signals from the Pirates that he would be their next manager after Lloyd McClendon was fired September 6. Two days later, Tracy gave his ultimatum to the Dodgers for a contract extension through 2008.
It was clumsy, but the act ultimately accelerated a sensible parting of the ways. As a result, the Dodgers will soon have a new manager and new coaches (although hopefully Manny Mota will stay). The Dodgers will soon have a staff that we can hope will allow Paul DePodesta to say:
"They get the messages I've been sending, they are very good teachers, and they're very good at implementing my ideas."
Update: Tony Jackson of the Daily News has this:
Colborn also implied the front office didn't consult Tracy and his staff enough before making major organizational decisions.
"You just never got the feeling you were part of the process," Colborn said. "You were part of it, but a dispensable part of it. But that's all right. Maybe they had their own point of view, and they probably figured (we) weren't going to carry out what they wanted done. They have the right to bring in their own people. But I don't really look at it is I did a bad job or that I failed any kind of test. But whatever I had to offer, they didn't think it was valuable."
It seems Jackson should have used (or Colborn should have implied) the words "listen to" instead of "consult." Either way, there are two things going on here - what happened before an organizational decision was made and what happened after. And however many meetings were held, DePodesta went his own way in making a decision, and Tracy and the coaches went their own way in carrying it out. Again, what's mostly significant is that the arrangement was not working.
Meanwhile, here's an Oakland Tribune feature from Josh Suchon on Ron Washington, who many thought would be a top Dodger managerial candidate because of his status as an Oakland A's coach. Washington interviews for the A's managerial position today.
As a manager, Washington said he would incorporate speed, finesse, power, aggressiveness and patience into his style.
"Whenever one of those styles is needed, I know how to use it," Washington said. "If I have to take it to the opposing team, I will. If the team is going well, I'll kick back and watch them play. If my offense is struggling, then I have to do something to help get them over it. You adjust to whatever the situation is."
Update 2: The London News Review opines in inimitable fashion:
The Walnut Street gang are wearing a worried look, and there's been a deal more horse spit than usual flying out from behind the Burlington Coat Factory. Because let's face it, not everyone in Pittsburgh is as chuffed as Dave Littlefield to see Jim Tracy pull on a Pirate hat and boots.
Last night I met George Romero, his mouth stuffed with a Primanti Brothers cheese steak, and he told me exactly what he thought of the Tracy shoe-in with a furious combination of gestures and coughs. And that's not all. Some jasper threw raddish tops onto junction 29 of the Turnpike, which in the language of the Rust Belt means "get the hell out of my town."
So, Tracy has been handed a beaver bone, but has he got the jaws?
If it hasn't been said enough, thanks once again for this site. It might more than a few things tolerable this summer.
I think the team will miss Colburn more than they know.
Not to re-hash what Jon wrote but..
1. Tracy likes his subordinates to listen and implement his ideas.
2. DePo tried to implement ideas to his subordinate(s). One of them, Jim Tracy, who values the guys that work for him to listen and implement his ideas, didn't listen and implement the ideas of his boss.
"He Figures to Be a Real Kick in the Pants"
Bill Plaschke
The new Angel manager is the old Houston Astro manager. He is the old Houston manager because, despite three winning seasons, he didn't pander to his players.
What a novel approach.
Under Collins, the Angels' complaints will be overruled, their pouting ignored, their lack of productivity challenged.
Under Collins, the Angels' manager will be the boss....
During his final years as manager of triple-A Albuquerque, Collins criticized Lasorda for the way he quickly benched top prospects who struggled. Lasorda was stung by the criticism, and one of baseball's quiet feuds ensued.
Would Collins be a good fit for the Dodgers? No. For the world champion New York Yankees? No. But for a team that recently left skid marks over good guys like Marcel Lachemann and Buck Rodgers? Ticking Terry Collins is walking into the party at the perfect time.
"Collins, a good, fair man, a man who loves baseball, wants it to be played hard and wants his players to be loyal and to keep their mouths shut, has been managing a team of disloyal malcontents who have stabbed each other as well as their manager in the back. Collins punctuated many of his comments with sobs, he is so devastated by this turn of events." 9-4-99
Quite a contrast with the stuff we're getting from Tracy. And would you believe the '99 Angels were 70-92? Collins seems like a direct, honest guy who wouldn't feed us post-game silver linings after losses. But I'm not sure which current Dodgers need a fire lit under them for motivation.
we need, fresh, young, hungry blood.
bring in torey lovullo. orel as pitching coach, gibson as bench coach and someone good as hitting coach.
just do it already depo. so we can get on to acquiring barry, adam, brian..... and alex.
"What took place in my first four years is a testament to the fact that a lot of it worked."
(Right after he said, "To say my feelings are correct or Paul's are correct is unfair.")
"You're going to have to convince me it doesn't work," Tracy said.
(This is from a separate article, but look how perfectly these quotes connect. It's really a common theme of recent Tracy interviews.)
Other than Beltre's great '04, has Tim Wallach gotten credit for anything else significant as a coach?
"Maybe they had their own point of view, and they probably figured (we) weren't going to carry out what they wanted done."
well geez, colby, what could possibly have given them that impression??
"'Cause you're not. You could even start if you wanted to."
Pedro for president...
As for "It was clumsy, but the act ultimately accelerated a sensible parting of the ways." What was clumsy about it? He knew he had the Pitt job lined up so he made an aggressive play with the Dodgers. I would have made the same move in negotiating my livelihood. Not to mention, he got himself nearly twice the salary and a three year contract.
As for Colburn, I think the Dodgers will miss him (a lot). He has done a nice job of re-treading some of our favorites (read Nomo, Lima and Alverez, not Erickson) and developing our young pitchers, including the best closer in baseball.
Tracy & Co. are gone. Let them go in peace. Tracy is only part of the failure of 2005 and his scapgoating, IMO, has become disproportionate.
Yes. The problem with it also is that it assumes Lasordian rah-rah-rah-ing can somehow affect the base value of particular players. It's another example of the 1988 thinking that has stymied the Dodgers ever since.
I herewith make a prediction: Tracy will be given three years and will be out of baseball thereafter. Going from one of the game's alleged marquee franchises to one of its worst is no accident.
As for the clumsy part, I guess I think that derives from giving your boss an ultimatum when there was still a pennant race at hand and when the timing re: McClendon was so transparent.
I have a major project at work due Friday. Should I go to my boss on Thursday and ask for a guaranteed raise? Or should I focus on getting my work done and deal with the raise afterward? Tracy complains about the lack of chemistry on the team - but instead of focusing on the team on the day before beginning a three-game series with the division-leading Padres, he was focused on himself.
I don't care to rid baseball for Tracy. In the right place, in a place where he's less insecure, he might prove of some value. And I'm not blaming 2005 all on him. There were the injuries, the fact that DePodesta isn't perfect and McCourt certainly isn't, and bad luck.
I don't need Tracy to admit he was wrong altogether. But his insistence that nothing that went wrong in 2005 falls on his shoulders is distasteful to me and unfair to the team I root for.
Especially when you realize that they both embody an important "moneyball" necessity. The Bulldog obviously represents great pitching. He was an ace in that he was a guy you could count on every 4 or 5 days, or even out of the bullpen if needed. Every baseball strategy/philosophy rests firmly on good pitching, and Orel certainly was that...with Depo glasses and mind to boot.
Gibby certainly embodies what Moneyball offense is all about...he was clutch! The idea behind the moneyball offense is to get guys on base at a high clip so that others can knock them in. Well, Gibby certainly did not dissapoint in his many years with the Tigers and one healthy one with the Dodgers. When men were on base, Gibby delivered. He wasn't the highest paid or most talented, but he got results. He could add a tremendous of grit and hustle to this team. No matter the GM's views, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better bench coach than Kirk Gibson...
If hiring Alan Trammel means Gibby coming along, you know who I'm in favor of. I'm sure it would keep Shelby on too, and be an enticing situation for Orel...
but, can they take Deporders?
While the prospect of a whole new set of coaches is scary, I think that it can do some good, too. The Colburn thing also explains Gagne's recent tirade. Maybe if Gagne goes to Pittsburgh, the Pirates might win a few more when they get a lead... although Mesa did a far better job for a couple of years than I thought he could.
As much as I think 'new blood' is the spirit that DePodesta is trying to instill, making a choice like Lovullo tempting, I'm hoping he does exactly what one of the above posters suggested: Hire Trammell, Gibson and Hershiser. Trammell is a good "chemistry" guy at manager. He's had experience taking young players from prospect to contributor. Gibby and Hershiser, like Trammell, are legendary players who have wisdom to impart both to our new players and the GM. The three of them, plus Mota and a decent batting coach, would create a baseball campus that combines the best analytical thinking combined with street smarts. I'm getting chills thinking about it. (Maybe I should go inside.)
"The Cardinals are a tremendous model," Tracy said. "They're interesting for this reason -- they can kill you with the long ball. But what takes place with that club in between that long one being hit is what's most damaging about them."...
"It's the intangibles they have," Tracy said. "They do the little things. Sure, they can thunder you in a heartbeat. But where they really beat you down is when Albert Pujols hits the ball through the hole on a hit-and-run and it's first and third and nobody out."
May God help the Pirates.
It's not like there is some moneyball criteria for pitching and bench coaches. There is no moneyball pitching strategy, and likewise, no moneyball inspirational agenda. Why not bring back two favorites to stress the greatness of this frnachise, to remind the players of what's at stake??
Hell, why not dump Lasorda as a special advisor??
Are we to denounce all links to our great past?
Of course, a manager should be on the same page philosophically with the GM in order for the team to function properly. But I've yet to hear Depo's radical views on pitching and bench coaches. Good pitching coaches are good pitching coaches regardless of Moneyball or smartball or whatever. And a bench coach?? C'Mon! Who could be better than Gibby??
Heck, even Tim McCarver thought it was a dumb idea.
As for the ultimatum, I guess it doesn't bother me because its just business. If your contract were up shortly after your Friday project, asking for a raise on Thursday is fine, assuming you are not extorting the raise. i.e. "I am not turning in the project until I get the raise." It also depends on the relationship between the employee and the employer. If there are years of good faith and trust there, then the negotiation can wait. If not, I expect my employees will do what they need to for themselves and their family. Just as I expect the employer to do what's best for his company. I assume Tracy did not think the trust or long term relationship was there.
As for the scapgoating, that wasn't directed at you. Just a general observation that we sometimes get carried away when it comes to Tracy.
Agreed. It would be nice if Tracy exhibited the humility to acknowledge that he made mistakes. I would have liked to see a little more grace under fire (not the TV show before someone says it). I wonder whether he thought it would effect his marketablity to admit fault.
Anyway, here's to the future, excited that the wheels will finally all be moving in the same direction.
Look, I'm not saying they wouldn't be good choices -- I don't know anything about their philosophies, teaching styles, whatever. I'm just saying that the fact that they were former Dodgers shouldn't be the biggest factor, and I'm fairly certain that DePo won't be giving that a lot of weight.
Hopefully Stl/Hou will be easier on the eyes.
"Centerfielder is shifted towards right, Timmy"
"Managers won't call hit and run again after it fails the first time, Timmy"
That said, it makes me a little uneasy when we urge DePo to give hometown heroes a leg up. I'm all for a meritocracy over nepotism. Let's hire the best guys, no matter who they played for.
Orel seems to have other qualifications to recommend him, but I'm not so sure about Gibby. I remember the column Mike Downey wrote when Gibby left talking about what an absolute jerk he was. I'm not sure whether to believe that or not, but it's something to consider.
For those advocating the hiring of Gibby, any reasons to offer beyond his intense playing style? I know very little of his coaching career.
They interviewed a bunch of Tiger's players when they were in town last year and they all said what a great thing it was to have a guy like Gibby on the bench...maybe the better question is, how terribly uninspired would they have been WITHOUT gibby!
If the Pirates start out 4-0 and the Dodgers 1-3, the newspapers will be full of people boiling tar and collecting feathers and heading for Dodger Stadium to look for Messrs. McCourt and DePodesta.
Is Jim Tracy going to turn out to be Mike Shanahan or John Robinson?
Mickey Hatcher = B Kirk Gibson
Tracy had another year on his contract...
Second: Jon, this article smacks of taking cheap potshots at someone who is no longer associated with the team. I have to say, I am extremely disappointed with your presumed tone in this article. Don't stoop to Tracy's level of burning bridges-- your karma will absolutely come back to you.
If Simers or Plaschke were advocating the firing of Tracy, this is the type of article I envision them writing.
43 Funny, but I was greatly relieved that it wasn't Joe Morgan calling this series. I'll take McCarver over him any day. For the most part, I've given up hoping that the announcers will even acknowledge the Saber point of view, so my expectations are low.
Rangers team ERA 4.97 with a starting staff complete with two starters that lasted the whole season, assorted bums, and every decent pitcher traded by season's end...
Are we really having a discussion proving Orel's worth on a Dodgers blog??
I've already stated my argument isn't with either Orel or Gibson's qualifications -- I said I don't know enough about them to evaluate. My issue is with the idea that we need a bunch of former Dodgers to recapture past glory, because I don't think it works that way.
Post #49 sums it up perfectly -- just hire the best people, regardless of where they played before. That's all I'm saying.
And I'm pretty sure Mickey Hatcher is a hitting coach isn't he? He was, at least.
I think Tracy is a hypocrite, and it's hard for me to let that slide, for the reasons I pointed out in comment #28. I don't think I took cheap shots - I think they were very well earned based on what Tracy said yesterday. But I'm with the people who are ready to move on.
As for karma, with the week I've been having, it's safe to say it's already done its job. My name is Jon.
I suspect not.
p.s. royal blue
iquendo on the cardinals
shelby on the dodgers
...the list goes on endlessly
..you act like there is only ONE man capable of doing the job.
I guess we misunderstand each other.
I take it 72 is sarcastic as well, since 71's point is very clear.
Perhaps Jim Tracy is the Dominique de Villepin of baseball.
..and then surround him with 88 Dodgers
Collins gives me the willies. Luvollo and Wotus might be fine, but not for this team right now. They come from outside the organization, and will come in having to prove themselves. The players are already feeling mutinous toward DePodesta (again probably thanks to Jim Tracy's mind games); throwing them an inexperienced manager would just reinforce Gagne's nightmare that he's playing in Milwaukee. Royster seems like a good second choice, but Trammell is the guy I'd want.
How about Tim Belcher? He was a "people person".
How about Tracy Woodson?
That is an image that I'm not certain I'm altogether fond of.
Jose Gonzalez played in parts of 8 season with an OPS+ of 69!
Rene Gonzalez was on the ill-fated 1992 Angels squad that went 70-92. The only player from that squad who is still (officially) active is Tim Salmon. Gary Gaetti led that team with 12 home runs. Luis Polonia had the highest batting average at .286.
It had some decent pitchers. The leader in saves was the famed Joe Grahe.
"Jermaine Dye hit 31 home runs this season, but with the Sox trailing by a run he tried bunting to lead off the sixth inning. He popped out to pitcher Paul Byrd. "The third baseman was playing way back,'' he said. "If they're going to give us that, we've got to take it. He was making his pitches and we needed to get something going against him. It was a good idea, I just didn't get it down."
No, no, no...If you are Scott Podsednik or Chone Figgins or someone like that, OK, maybe you can take it if they are giving it to you. But if you are Jermaine Dye, or Paul Konerko, or David Ortiz, or JD Drew, you should emphatically NOT take it.
Likewise, Terry Collins is pretty much my last choice among the 5 being interviewed, as well as the others who had been rumored/suggested. I think that LA needs to go with a younger manager, similiar to what Cleveland did hiring Wedge. That said, I think that given the atmosphere of the clubhouse, the manager is going to have to command respect of the players immediately and convince them to get on board with the overall plan. Trammell could probably be this guy. I certainly wouldn't be upset by his hiring.
First ARod, now Nomar. What is it with shortstops and saving lives? Jeter keep his eye open, he's probably next in line to have to save some people.
Also, it looks like Joe Girardi is going to get the Florida managing job and Perlozzo is being made a permanent skipper in Baltimore. This doesn't leave many openings for Ken Macha. I didn't see his name on the Dodger list. I wonder if he would consider a position as bench coach with the Dodgers.
What amazes me even more is that this stuff is buried in a bland article about the possibility of Perlozzo returning. Can you imagine the play it would get in LA?
http://tinyurl.com/dmzqf (or go to washingtonpost.com and look for the article "Orioles, Perlozzo talk")
Stan from Tacoma
Update #2 was fantastic.
Just as a fan of baseball, I always hope the Royals, the Mariners, (the 2005 Dodgers,) and the Pirates of the world can find a way to scrap back into contention. So I'd be fine with the team suceeding with or without Tracy.
As to the contention that it is unbecoming to skewer Tracy with wit and facts and his own words, well, I do not agree. Call a spade a spade. (or a rose a rose, if you prefer). In fact, I feel just the opposite, any decent Dodger fan ought to feel piqued at the very least.
Wonder how Penny, Kent and Valentin and all the others feel about Tracy saying basically, "well, we could have won with those other (better) guys"?
All of what Tracy has been spouting is unnecessary. He knew he had the job in Pittsburgh. He is just deflecting instead of taking responsibility. In fact, I might could stomach all his spew if he had at least once acknowledged his own part in the tragedy of the season.
The Dodgers returned to the World Series in 1963 to face the New York Yankees. As the undisputed ace of a talented pitching staff, Sandy drew the opening game assignment against New York's Whitey Ford at Yankee Stadium.
Sandy pitched a gem. He struck out the first 5 hitters he faced in the game-- Tony Kubek, Bobby Richardson, Tom Tresh, Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris. Through the first 4 innings Sandy was perfect, with 9 of the 12 outs being strikeouts.
Unlike his start in the 1959 World Series, the Dodgers scored some runs for Sandy. In the 2nd inning ex-Yankee Bill Skowron singled home Frank Howard who had doubled and John Roseboro reached Ford for a 3 run homerun to right to stake Sandy to a 4-0 lead. In the 3rd, Bill Skowron's single plated the 5th run for the Dodgers.
The Yankees reached Koufax for their first hit in the 5th. Two more singles loaded the bases, but Sandy pitched out of trouble by fanning Hector Lopez to end the threat. Through 5 innings Sandy had 11 strikeouts.
Sandy failed to record a strikeout in the 6th. In the 7th he struck out Elston Howard for his 12th strikeout of the game.
Phil Linz was Sandy's 13th strikout to begin the 8th. Tony Kubek reached Sandy for an infield hit. After striking out Bobby Richardson for his 14th K, Tom Tresh hit a homerun to left to spoil the shutout.
When the Yankees came to bat in the 9th, all eyes were on Sandy. His strikeout of Bobby Richardson in the 8th tied Sandy with Brooklyn Dodger Carl Erskine for the most strikeouts by a pitcher in a World Series game. With two outs, Sandy faced pinch hitter Harry Bright and he struck him out to establish a World Series record for strikeouts and seal a 5-2 Dodger win.
Sandy's pitching line in his complete game victory was 6 hits, 3 walks 15 strikeouts and 2 earned runs.
Thanks to retrosheet
Stan from Tacoma
Somehow, I think we'll survive. I also think that the NLCS will be of pretty limited interest outside the St. Louis and Houston areas for the casual baseball fans.
The ALCS is going to be the big ratings winner.
I hated Tracy's X's and O's (if there were any). Player manager? Ok. When we were winning, I still did not like his managing. So heres to hope the next guy goesn't make Tracy look like a great one. Cant really imagine that happening.
Karros is also indirectly annoying because every Dodger Cassandra seems to share the same qualities: Paul Lo Duca was their favorite Dodger of the last 8 years, and the Dodgers should never have dealt Eric Karros.
Making Wallace's move to the Red Sox possible was Dodgers GM Dan Evans. Wallace was serving as a vice president in the Dodgers front office...Largely because of Wallace's New England roots -- Waterbury, Conn. -- Evans decided that letting him take the opportunity in Boston was the right thing to do. In the process, he said good-bye to a man who has spent 20 of his last 23 seasons in the Dodgers organization.
http://tinyurl.com/c6xcx
Until the final paragraph, that is (note that when speaking about Plasch, the word "paragraph" is always used loosely):
"If nothing else, he continues to make the Dodgers think hard.
Yeah, remember the Dodgers?
They currently are looking for a new manager, their third since Scioscia took over the Angels in 2000, their third since Scioscia was unceremoniously nudged through their doors.
He'll never talk about the mistake they made.
He already believes he manages the most important team in Los Angeles. Thanks in part to him, he's right."
Although this type of dig is par for the course for Plaschke, it seems really incongruous to wait until the end to insert it into what would otherwise be just a standard postgame weepy. You have to conclude that, needing a few more column inches to fill, Plaschke reached into his bag of tricks (inventory: two items), pulled out "Bash Dodgers," and and what emerged is the winning and synergistic Plaschke formula of hackery + disingenuousness. "Dodger: Bad" has become the Hamburger Helper of LA sportswriting (don't ever call it journalism).
What's almost even more unfair about this is the message it sends to Los Angeles of Anaheim fans: without the Dodgers' mistakes, your team is nothing. I personally don't buy this argument, you probably don't either, but Plaschke is happy to remind you every chance he gets.
114 Jon, something like that would be what I'd expect... but I haven't even seen that.
On a side note, I dont like the fact that Izturis is disabled because I think he could be packaged for a premeire player. Allowing Aybar to start at third, with Choi at first.
personally, what lovullo has done the last 3 years in the indians org really catches my eye. Hes the type of guy who has worked directly with prospects and has gotten the most out of them and has a history of winning.
Q: How do it come to fruition so quickly?
Tracy: Shortly after I made the decision to not return to Los Angeles....
This is not what happened Jimbo! You were fired before you were allowed to opt out of your contract!
Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought you compared Tracy to the guy who's last day was Friday. Tracy's last day was at his whim. Of course, DePo probably would have fired him anyway. If my boss fires me there is no year's salary to get by on.
i am sadden. i will probably fall into a 2 month depression and the only thing that will get me out of it if depo gets barry, adam, brian and... alex.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2188851
or http://tinyurl.com/arn5t
Of course, if that hadn't happened, there would be no Audioslave, so keep your chin up and hope for better things to come.
Stan from Tacoma
Denial can be a wonderful thing.
116 In addition to seeing no improvement in '05 over '04, it's pretty clear that Tiger GM Dombrowski wanted to reunite with his 1997 Florida Marlins manager Jim Leyland. Which, so far, looks like the biggest mistake anyone's made this off-season.
From scanning Tiger-related blogs, the take on Trammell seems to be:
1) It's not his fault the team had bad players, pitchers especially, or that Dombrowski's free agent signings were stupid, or that I-Rod and Carlos Guillen had seasons far below what was predicted for them. It's unfair to blame him.
2) On the other hand, it is impossible to discern based on the past three seasons whether he is, at this time, a good manager. The players were of such low quality, and the 2003 team especially was "the worst roster in the history of the major leagues," Trammell's own contributions are hard to measure.
3) Trammell is a stand-up guy for taking the job in '03 (against Sparky Anderson's advice), and because of his long service to the team, including playing short for them at a salary far below the market for a player of his quality (he never had an agent), the Tigers should have treated him better, and let him finish out his contract at least.
Here's a fairly typical post: http://tinyurl.com/bz7su
With all of that, he's still my first choice. He's experienced, but not set in his ways; DePo can get him to buy into his vision for the team. Unlike Tracy, whose whole career has been with teams that had built-in alibis, Trammell has been a winner. The team will respect him, the media will respect him, and he'll in turn show respect for the team, the fans and the Dodger tradition.
I'm not hung up on this, but he just looks like the best of a pretty good bunch.
My favorite bands, like the Kinks, the Rolling Stones and Steely Dan, never break up. They just go on long vacations.
Other bands can break up, and all their most talented members can retire or die, but they keep performing. Such as Queen, featuring Paul Rodgers impersonating Freddie Mercury. Or the Beach Boys, now performing without any member of the Wilson family involved. Or Creedence Clearwater "Revisited" which somehow gets people to show up to concerts even though John Fogerty isn't part of it. Or Little Feat, still touring 200 nights a year, 25 years after Lowell George died. Sometimes, as the apocryphal quote goes, "Dis band should disband."
Hmm...
I felt the same way when Rage broke up. I don't like Audioslave. They sound too much like Sound Garden.
They're less political, and do more slow down stuff, but Tom Morrello is Tom Morrello.
148 - I admire what Green Day tried to do with this recent album, but only some of the songs work. I like just about all of their stuff from before it though.
Awww Steel you just made me barf with that Audioslave sounds like Soundgarden stuff. Maybe if Soundgarden were neutered.
Van Halen wins.
I guess It's somewhat of a medium, but it's too close to sound garden for my liking. Even though I kinda liked sound garden.
I don't like not understanding a conversation :(
do you listen to any other extreme music like dep trainwreck?
I see Mel Stottlemyre is a free agent pitching coach. Though it doesn't make it clear if he even wants to coach anymore.
I don't make that comment all the time do I? Maybe after every major controversial move that happens and that's why I end up saying it. It seems like any random DT poster could randomly copy and paste it. I'm just itching for some baseball...
"Why does it matter that much? What do baseball baseball managers do anyway?"
Me: [stammering] "Uh, well, they... gosh.. and then there's..."
Finally: "They try not to up!"
"They try not to [expletive for "mess"] up!"
But I hear you fanerman, it's going to be a long wait until March. I don't even have the NFL to look foward to with how poorly my Raiders are playing.
I'd recommend zeroing in on one baseball aspect (pitching coach teaching methods has been mine) and gobbling up the many informative baseball articles from websites like diamond-mind, baseball prospectus, etc. until pitchers and catchers report.
Or someone should form a DT year-round fantasy baseball keepers league.
Now back to your regularly scheduled music discussion.
And remember, there are thousands of crazy parents but only one Steinbrenner.
You are right punk has been dead for a long while. Just everything out there that is so called is a copy of a bad copy of punk, in nice packaging.
I loved Zach and Morello's chemistry(uh oh there goes that word again). The contrast between Zach's voice and Morellos heavy guitar was awesome.
Audioslave has some good songs but it sounds off to me.
I don't thing it was about chemistry though. I think it was more about Patience and power ;)
I had heard he made some songs but then nothing came out. He was just in L.A. last weeknd with some band called SOn de Madera at los angeles Natural history museum. I think it was last friday nite.
Honestly i just want them to get together so i can see them live. I never had the moeny when they were together.
Anyway, my current vote is Lovullo, or choice #6) Manager Candidate Not Yet Named.
i think they're pretty awesome, but i prefer converge, myself.
however, i HATE HATE HATE the locust. mostly because i think the ratio of their hipster cachet to their musical value is wayyyy out of control.
Plaschke conveniently ignores his idol Scioscia's own comments shortly after the 2002 miracle season for the Angels. Scioscia cautioned then that the Angels had a very long way to go before coming close to establishing the type of tradition and success the Dodgers have enjoyed. He uses reason and realism; perhaps Plaschke should try that some time.
I am certain that's not what bandwagoners and bitter longtime Angel fans wanted to hear from Scioscia, but it was true then and it remains so.
Even with this disaster of a season, the Dodgers still outdrew the Angels. Yes, that included no-shows but the crowds really didn't thin out much until September.
Until the Angels put up more WS titles and manage to outdraw the Dodgers for the first time ever (and a few more times after that), they will never claim similar importance or meaning to this area that the Dodgers do.
The supreme irony is that Orange County fans are indignant about being associated with bad old Los Angeles when Moreno is the one desperately trying to leech off the image, history, tradition, and significance associated with Los Angeles and the Dodgers in order to make money. He can't market "Anaheim" or "Orange County" easily. Oh, wait, only McCourt is a money grubber, not Moreno. Moreno lowered BEER PRICES! He isn't into making money. Silly me.
Sorry for the long post but this issue particuarly fires me up (obviously).
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