|
Post-DePodesta, Looking Ahead
2005-10-29 16:59
I don't normally speculate, but I'm going to make an exception and offer some up. 1) Jamie McCourt wants her team to be the first in baseball with a female general manager. 2) Frank McCourt wants his team to hire a former Dodger hero. 3) Tommy Lasorda wants his team to bring back Bobby Valentine, a former Dodger hero in his eyes and a former successful manager who happened to be a Dodger for a blip of time 3 1/2 decades ago in everyone else's eyes. Leading to ... 4a) Hershiser becomes manager, and Ng becomes general manager with Valentine as her special advisor. 4b) Valentine becomes manager, and Ng becomes general manager with Hershiser as her special advisor 4c) Hershiser becomes manager, and Valentine becomes general manager with Ng as his special advisor and next-in-line. 5) And for sure, this happens: Season ticket sales show a net increase, with more people happy than sad that DePodesta is gone. The Dodgers improve in 2006 thanks to the talent that DePodesta and Dan Evans helped assemble, the new regime takes credit, and the McCourts crow all year.
|
I just had to ask. Just how much of a factor do you think it was to McCourt that the White Sox won the World Series, using a pseudo-Smallball, all the while Lasorda blustering how the out-wastin' was the Dodger way to play ball?
However, there seems to be some fascination with Pat Gillick. It's been around the Dodgers since Campanis was fired.
If I'm ever home when the Dodger ticket salesperson calls, I'll be ready with my measured dissatisfaction.
-Bobby Valentine will be the Dodgers next manager
-Orel Hershiser will be part of the organization in some capacity
-Pat Gillick is going to be strongly considered for GM
-Lasorda and the McCourts can go to ____________
http://tinyurl.com/8jyto
It's now much clearer to me why the team hired Tipper Gore's former press secretary as VP for Communications. Jamie McCourt is campaigning for something that, in her mind, is a bigger deal than whether the Dodgers win the NL West, although the team's success is tied up in it. She wants her role as team president to be seen as something other than what it looks like to everyone else, nepotism; and viewed more along the lines of the Clinton 'two for one' presidency.
To me, putting Ng in as GM cuts both ways. Yes, it's a first. But--it takes the spotlight off La McCourt, and I'm not sure that's how she plays.
I don't think Valentine will become the GM because McCourt said "He has to have a keen eye for baseball talent, has to be a good communicator and have the experience to do the job of a GM and be able to work toward a common goal."
That should eliminate Kim Ng and Valentine
Orel for GM?
I thought for sure the Times had gotten it wrong. It is unfathomable to me how the Dodgers franchsie has become a leaf in the wind.
http://tinyurl.com/8evgc
This is very odd and it smacks of a disconnect with reality.
Shouldn't it say somewhere in the article that DePo was fired. And it really doesn't seem that McCourt felt any need to explain why the move was made, or answer any questions from the press.
This just keeps getting worse and worse.
Of course, statistics are fundamental to analyzing a game in which the winningest team can only sport a modest 62% winning percentage, a far cry from a typical dominating football team. Even the worst team wins 40% of the time.
I think McCourt punted.
(Sorry for the numerous football references)
Stan from Tacoma
Yes, it's for sentimental reasons, and no, sentiment does not make for a winning baseball team. But as Jon's post says, there's an excellent chance that the Dodgers will have some success in 2006, and that McCourt (and others you can imagine) will crow about it. This would make me want to turn away from the Dodgers. But I want to remain a fan, and I can't find myself rooting for failure (as some anti-DePo fans appeared to do this past year). If I don't have good sentiment, it's going to be hard to be a fan. Hershiser in charge would allow me to remain one.
Or: McCourt didn't hire DePo because he shared DePo's Moneyball philosophy; he hired him because that philosophy was the hot new trend at the time. If McCourt is convinced that a different philosophy is the new trend, he goes that way next.
As you say, the LITE (Lasorda-in-the-Ear) factor can't be discounted...
I said that he was as trustworthy as a used car salesman a month ago but was misunderstood...thinking I was referring to him as the parking lot attendant.
The problem with organization starts with the McCourts who thought they could take LA by storm. Well, they got the storm.
I'm glad that DePo is gone and the attributes that McCourt says that he wants in a new GM sound good. But, he always says what sounds good...This time he may have learned a lesson.
(Nevermind that the White Sox won because of good pitching and timely homeruns)
This whole baseball year has been wacky, so this Saturday afternoon massacre puts the cherry on top of the sundae, so to speak. At this point (today) I'm more a Depo fan than a Dodger fan, and I am glad he has 3 years to find a good situation for himself, on McCourt's dime. Unless the next GM really blows it the Dodgers will be fine for the next year or two, thanks to the good foundation Depo has built -- lots of key players are likely to move back to or exceed their expected performance (O. Perez, Lowe, Penny) and/or have healthy years (Gagne, Drew). Choi will be dealt for something useful or used wisely, and the new GM can jettison some of the deadwood. At this point the high minors are stocked. Somebody is walking into a wonderful situation -- even the press will give him (or her) a honeymoon.
The White Sox reminded me how much luck figures into success -- if enough players exceed expectations at the same time, and players stay healthy, anything is possible. For the Dodgers (and Depo) it was the exact opposite this year.
It's an odd sight.
Choi seems more likley to be nontendered than traded for something useful or allowed to perform to potential.
There are plenty of nightmare scenarios
1. God, this stinks. On virtually every level, this decision is just so batbleep crazy I don't know where to begin. I do hate the McCourts with the heat of a thousand suns right now.
2. I think Lasorda turned the malleable McCourts against DePodesta.
3. If I had one, I'd bet the house that the Dodgers would improve dramatically next season. The moment that happens, the media will credit the team's newfound chemistry.
4. If Bobby Valentine is the new skipper and he's supposed to bring back good character to the Dodgers, it will be the first time "Bobby Valentine" and "good character" will be used in the same sentence.
5. Part of me doesn't want to put another dime into the pockets of people who I wouldn't hire to wash my car. But this is the Dodgers, my team, and unless they're owned by wholly amoral people, I'm stickin' with 'em. But if they start trading the future for "name" players who can help them win now (a la Shaw/Konerko), I'm out.
Just a sad, sad day, IMHO.
The Red Sox win has now been rewritten anyway. They weren't a stats team. They were a hustle/heart time.
To top it all off the Bruins are losing
48: Yes, what's that great Elvis Costello line?
"I used to be disgusted,
Now I try to be amused..."
Ng is pronounced sort of like "Ahng", but some people say "Ing" like the end of a gerund.
And yes, it is possible for someone (Lasorda, for instance) to trade a Konerko for Shaw. What a bitter pill it would be for the new Dodger GM to overpay for Konerko's past success.
That was not a fun day.
In the words of the We Five
Oh, I got troubles, (whoa whoa)
I got worries, (whoa whoa)
I got wounds to bind....
1. Notre Dame beats Michigan
2. Michigan beats Michigan State
3. Michigan State beats Notre Dame
4. Go to step one.
After watching that press conference you can see Lasorda's influence on McCourt and frankly I have lost almost all respect for Lasorda. Plus he has said other dumb statements relating to non sporting issues that irritated me.
Did not think you were being serious but there are people who think like that.
One thing this day has not done is make me lose my appetite. Grilled New York steak and heirloom tomato salad coming up!
Bob/Jon: Good God Almighty, do you really see Valentine as the GM? Isn't that like hiring Larry Brown or Rick Pitino as the GM of your basketball team? Irrational, emotion-driven trades all over the place... that kind of passion can work well on the field/court, but in the front office? Even for McCourt, that seems extreme.
A couple of people mentioned on radio broadcasts today that Dodger "insiders" pointed at the Bradley incident as the beginning of the end for DePo so there's no way that Milton is back next year.
Do you remember the comment that Orel made after his interview? Something about he would be happy to come back to the Dodgers, if not as manager, then in the front office.
His position was already decided back then.
Based on McCourt's comments today he won't be the GM but he will wind up as Gillick's assistant and the new Dodger mouthpiece (mind you this is all supposition on my part).
I don't think baseball is ready for a woman GM although it may not be too far down the road. Kim Ng will not be the next Dodger GM.
Mgr - If Valentine wants the job, it's his, and he's already said he would love it.
http://depodestaforpresident.blogspot.com/
Lasorda claims McCourt listens to him sometime and sometimes doesn't. Logic to me would be having Terry Collins take over as GM, since he knows the talent base in the organization and manager Orel. Bobby V will cost too much.
But it doesn't surprise me that it was pinned on DePodesta too.
I also think that McCourt will do whatever he thinks he needs to do to make sure the Dodgers have a glorious 06, and that will probably involve trading at least a few of our best prospects for quick-fix veterans.
Lasorda will be the 06 GM, and Hershiser will be the manager. The PR department will bill out 2006 as "the return of 1988". They'll be able to recycle the commercials from last year, only swapping out Mike Davis for Jackie Robinson in that "Izturis steals second" montage.
It was written in '97 when things were going good for Bobby.
It scares me that just yesterday, Josh Byrnes was the named the GM of the D-backs. If he has enough power, gone are the days of trading for past his prime Green and letting Russ Ortiz win the mega millions.
Say what you will about Sabean and his love for old men, but he has also been a success. What if Sabean resigns in a couple of years and McGowan (with cash flow problems already because of PacBell-SBC-AT&T Park) decides he needs to go with DePo or someone of his ilk.
89 I think at this point in time, Logan White makes too much sense. He seems to have a pretty a pretty good grasp on evaluating talent. I'm not sure that means much to McCourt at this point in time.
On to other topics, it was a chickenbleep move for McCourt to allow DePo to fire Tracy and then fire DePo.
I'm very disappointed in the McCourts right now. I thought for a while that anyone but Fox would be better for the team. I'm not so sure right now.
Thank you Bud Selig and the other owners for approving the McCourts. Good job!
But a lot of that came up when his teams started losing (surprise!). When he started as a manager, I remember a lot of people comparing him to Billy Martin, with a better PR face.
At the risk of psychoanalyzing this, the "groucho glasses" incident has, I think, become for him like the "YEEE-ahh" scream became for Howard Dean. It's his defining moment, what most people remember, and causes them to ask, "Can we take this person seriously?"
From an outsider's view, I just don't think his temperament is suited for the front office; thus my Larry Brown-Rick Pitino analogy. I've heard snippets that he's embraced some of the moneyball concepts as a manager, but it'd be interesting to hear him at length on that.
This was 8 years ago though. In the meantime he has gotten a team to the World Series, which must count for something.
My condolences to Jon.
His alma mater still has one more University of California school to play also.
Seriously.
Since communications and PR seem to be such a problem, why isn't there any heat on the Marketing Director?
This is just huge for this season and the whole program.
Last year Norte Dame impulsively fired their football coach that backfired in their face, and somehow stumbled into Charlei Wiess, so I guess there is some hope that McCourt accidently hires a good GM.
Wow, at what point does Lasorda become a net negative for the organization. I mean, between abusing his pitchers in the late-80's/early-90's, the Konerko and Pedro trades, and now this, I think he's getting close to cancelling out the good he's done for the organization.
Yes, I do. That was sort of the point :)
How about, oh, 1996?
1. why is my favorite team so freakin dysfunctional?
2. why is frank mccourt such a media pansy? every little criticism, he panics and fires someone.
3. i will miss you depodesta, i was with you from the beginning and believed in your vision.
4. go to hell frank mccourt. you are a complete douchbag. take your slut wife with you.
just heard the news... it felt like a punch in the gut.
I'm disappointed - what else is new today?
Wow if I would have known we could have said that stuff on here I would have done it a long time ago.
Hope DePo gets a job. If I were him I'd call up the BoSox and let them know I'd work for half of whatever they agree upon with Epstein haha.
We've had more than 500 comments today and about 99.5 percent of them have been civil. Let's not lose it now.
It's too bad. I had a good feeling about this off-season. I have now been reduced to dreams of Theo Epstein. Ewww.
Yeah, he's no Russ Ortiz.
Don't worry. Stanford has USC next week. They're like UCLA except they're like 20 times better.
Good point. I think Mr. or Mrs. McCourt's incompetence is something that is gender-neutral.
That's what makes it hard to even wait to see what the McCourt's do before passing judgement. They haven't shown any semblence of being able to make a thoughtful, non-emotional decision yet, so the odds that they ease our pain with a good GM signing is very remote.
And now you look in ESPN's Baseball transactions and you see Los Angeles Dodgers - Fired general manager Paul DePodesta.
I'm pretty confident most posters here will be hard-pressed to find a better community to talk about whatever team they're following than this one.
But I guess that's mainly a question for the commenters themselves.
Honestly, the firestorm was greater on DT last year when Beltre went to Seattle.
Why was he fired in the first place?
Who were most people blaming for Beltre leaving?
And the Nats have blogs backed by sabre thinking, and they have Bowden and Robinson
Probably have more Dodger fans and less philosophy fans.
I don't know what that means for the future. But I wouldn't rule out Jamie becoming GM, with Kim Ng as her assistant. Valentine seems to be cut out only for the job of manager. Hershiser might take over for Terry Collins who probably won't stick around.
Remember: "The McCourts are the brand." Jamie McCourt as GM gets that done in a hurry.
Frank McCourt realizes, I'm sure, that he can't put his wife in the GM job unless he clears it with Selig. And that might be a big chunk for Bud to swallow. In that event, Ng becomes GM, but Jamie becomes a very actively involved president.
I am not suggesting this would necessarily be bad. For all we know, Jamie is as saber-savvy as DePodesta was. Certainly it's reasonable to assume Ng was on board. If it's about ego and personality rather than philosophy, the net result might be a wash.
148 - There is no way Jamie becomes GM. Not only is it untenable, she would be demoting herself.
Back to Dodger baseball circa 1999. Sitting around waiting till the front office learns about innovative ideas like OBP, dumping overpaid veterans and finding cheap players with upside.
I know we need to wait and see, but the Old Boys are back in charge, folks. The DePodesta era was just a 2 year tease. Pray DePo finds employment outside the NL West.
Although Lasorda is credited with being concerned about Pedro Martinez'arm strength and ability to stay healthy, Clair traded Martinez, as far as the Shaw Konerko move, probably not the best move, but it can be defended considering where the Dodgers where at the time and the fact that Karos was still productive..In my opinion at the end of the day what is dysfunctional right now is the Dodger ownership. Whether you were pro or anti DePodesta, it was McCourt who hired him and he could have easily kept Evans for another year and then made a decision..Jerry Cranschiek (sp) is being interviewed on ESPN radio and he points out that the dysfunctionality on the Dodgers should be put at one person's desk Frank McCourt, and sadly he may luck into a good decision on a GM or manager, but how many firings we will see before that maybe the newest game in LA.
Should have read that before I submitted it.
But--it's untenable. So what will happen is the hiring of a GM who will be compliant in letting Jamie wear those boots whenever she wants.
How is Gillick with prospects? That's my biggest concern. You can trade some of the lesser ones for needed parts, but we need to keep the core of them together to be future Dodgers
Early in his career with Toronto, Gillick was ridiculed (by some) as "Stand Pat" Gillick because he wouldn't trade prospects for vets at the mid-season deadline. He did change this approach later.
that would be our just desserts.
This move really is depressing because as I commented recently,its back to square one,a new philosophy,new personalities,a new dysfunctional clubhouse to try to jell into a team.If you want to get why the Chisox won,its apparent these guys liked each other.How do you get from chaos and confusion to a team when spring training is 5 months away.
McCourt is way out of his league.While we're demolishing the team why doesn't Frank sell out and buy the Macon Whoopee or something more his speed.
If Lasorda is the genius dictating these moves its grim.He has always impressed me as a shameless self-promoter who misuses young players,talks a better game than actually managing one.He got lucky twice and won,but he and baseball genius are not synomynous.Give me my Dodgers back.
USC - Talent
also known as
UCLA - Talent with luck
USC - Lots of talent with less luck
I'm a mostly lurker, who just has to vent today. Most of what I'll say has probably been said already here (and with much more style), but being out here on the east coast (just 10 miles from "the worldwide leader in sports") DT is pretty much my only forum.
The biggest problem I have is that McCourt has now become just like "The Boss" (and I'm not talking about the "good" one from Jersey). Except no money, little to no experience....and, oh yeah, no championships.
It'll be interesting to see if the media calls McCourt out for "backing" Depo a mere 3 weeks ago and letting Tracy go. Not that I was a Tracy backer, and increasingly this summer wanted him out, but he only gave Depo one freakin' off season. What the heck is that?
The ONLY thing that will make this acceptable is if McCourt hires Theo. I'll take a like minded GM who's already won a championship instead of Depo (even though I really liked him, and his philosophies).
Think Blue takes on a whole new meaning today.
DePodesta will land somewhere else where a smarter management team will give him a stronger charter.
They could have either kept getting heat from the media by sticking to the plan that was developed by their GM, a man who is ridiculed by the local press and who the McCourts themselves probably are not too fond of or
They could could listen to Iago Lasorda and wallow in the successes of the 70s and 1988 by bringing in "Dodger Family" guys who are favorites of the local media and who will be allowed to find their way while taking credit for everything good and blaming everything bad on the stats geek who ran the team for a few years.
DePo was the classic scapegoat.
CF- Repko
SS- Robles
RF- Drew- (11mils)
1b- Konerko (13mils)
2b- Kent (8mils)
LF- Jacque Jones (7mils)
3b- Joe Randa (5mils)
C- Navarro
Meanwhile Choi, Bradley, and APerez have great 2006's while making pennies.
The Dodgers, another 90-100mils flop.
I hope whomever the GM is resigns Choi, and makes a play for a legit LF'er, not Jacque Jones.
Like him or hate him, at least with DePo you knew he wasnt going to give out big contracts to players with little talent, or whom were on the downswing.
Jacque Jones I detest.
Jason Repko I detest
Paul Konerko I'm afraid of. (Cellular BP effects)
Jeff Weaver I detest.
I hope these players are not wearing Dodger Blue next year.
Does anyone think a .500 finish would have saved DePo? Hard to imagine you derail a 5-year plan over 10 lousy games with a depleted roster.
Gillick is 68 years old for those care, but he did go to USC. So he will get Rod Dedeaux's seal of approval.
Finley, Cora, Hernandez, Beltre, Nomo, Lima, Green, Ishii, Ross, Ventura (retiring), Mayne, Venafro?
That's the list of guys DePodesta gutted.
I don't think it's as much support for DePodesta as dismay at McCourt's seeming incompetence and inability to stick to one plan.
Should I call up the ticket office person and return their call and talk to them in my measured and bemused tone of indignation. It will likely go over their head.
I had a few
but then again
too few to mention
As I ask my students, can you expand on that? Did the freak success of 2004 mean that DePo's tear-down had to win this year, or else?
NBA teams are usually better examples of this; if you're gonna tear down a team that won last year, somebody's inevitably gonna get fired... even if the teardown, for the long-term success of the team, had to be done.
I just have visions of 1999-03.
Repko will play the role of Roberts.
Jacque Jones will play the role of Brian Jordan/Devon White.
Robles will play the Izturis/Cora role.
Randa will play the Fred McGriff role.
Yuck.
You may be right, but McCourt has made it easy for me to justify dropping the 5 or 6 Dodger games I attend each year and instead get my live baseball fix in Anaheim. I'll still watch the Dodgers on TV and follow Suns games on the net, but I'll shift my spending closer to home (I moved to Mission Viejo a couple years ago), even though I'm not really an Angels fan.
"McCourt had long been perplexed by DePodesta's reclusive nature and a strategic communications firm hired by the Dodgers in spring training was frustrated by DePodesta's seeming indifference to public relations.
When fat-cat PR people stick their noses into baseball personnel decisions, then flush the future, my friends. Fortunately this particular strategic communications firm is no longer on the payroll, but if that was a factor--OMG!
Strategic communications person: "Paul, you can't sign Kent. Where's that leave Alex Cora?"
Paul: "Uh, a free agent. Playing somewhere else as a backup."
SCP: "But Paul, don't you remember that great at-bat? When he hit the homer? You can't trade him! He's part of our heart and soul!
"Another thing. This team doesn't have enough stars. America seemed to fall in love with that guy AJ. What'll it take to get him?
"Hey Paul. We've been looking at the team. You're over your quota of Dominicans, and you need another Mexican."
"Who do you mean?"
"That's your department. I'm just telling you, the mayor called, and he thinks LA needs to have a team that 'looks like Los Angeles.' Oh, and one more thing."
"Yeah?"
"LoDuca and Piazza. We gotta get them both back. Here. I wrote up a strategic communications plan."
"What?? You want me to trade Guzman, LaRoche and Billingsley? For an old catcher? And then get another old catcher?"
"Nobody's heard of Guzman, LaRoche and Billingsley. Anyway, it's a Dominican and two white guys. We're over our quotas as it is. But you bring back Piazza and LoDuca, they can spell each other. It's called job-sharing. Come on man, don't you realize what incredibly valuable advice I'm giving you?"
"Get out of my office."
"Frank! Jamie!"
And McCourt preaching today about what it means to be a "real Dodger" is downright offensive.
"To fill shoes once worn by Branch Rickey and Al Campanis, should McCourt really have hired a 31-year-old who had never been to Dodger Stadium? Who had never met Tom Lasorda? "
Thanks for that keen insight. Is having sampled the stadium chocolate malts a prerequisite to building the 25-man roster.
Jim Lefebvre manages the Chinese team.
"He's a GUY, Jerry...."
(loud thudding sounds as entire DT board pummels poster into unconsciousness)
Just sayin'.
(Except Repko hits home runs.)
In my earlier post on this thread I mentioned a prediction of LaSorda as GM and Valentine as manager. If that takes place I will still be a Dodger fan, but it will be as a fan of the 60s Dodgers of Sandy and Maury and Jim Gilliam; the 70s team of Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey; the 2004 team of Beltre, Izturis, and Cora. I have plenty of Vin Scully tapes, so I should be in good shape.
Will I be a Dodger Thoughts reader? Sure. I will be wanting Jon and Bob Timmermann to do more historical posts rather than wanting to know what is happening in McCourt's Los Angeles zoo, but I will be here.
Stan from Tacoma
What a terrible weekend!!!!!!!! ws, Xei
Bob, I was at that Cal-Stanford game, cheering on Stanford in the end zone seats. I kept telling my friends we would win, and they thought I was crazy. Fantastic finish, probably the best football game I ever attended. One of my favorite sports days ever, right up there with attending game five of the '88 World Series.
Tonight ... eh ... you can have that one. :-) I hope that at least USC and UCLA are both undefeated when they play.
The thing that upsets me about baseball is that justice usually is not swift. In a sport like football, that is a bit less luck dependent, incompetence is exposed immediately. Unfortunately, in baseball, it is an accumulation of data that finally reveal incompetence.
1-Having watched Bobby V during his entire six-year tenure with the Mets, I can say that he is a very good manager, and I would have no problem with him. I was a Tracy fan, but Valentine is a better manager, and despite his reputation, Valentine lasted seven years in Texas, and six with the Mets, which I think says something about his staying power.
2-Has anyone considered Mike Scoscia as manager? Didn't the Angels give him permission to speak to the Dodgers?
3-While I didn't agree with every decision, I was a fan of Dan Evans, and didn't think he should have been fired, especially so late in spring training.
4-As far as DePodesta, while I rooted for him, and agree that he should have been given more of a chance (as Evans should have), I don't think he is any great loss. Most of his moves haven't worked out, even if the players he got rid of--Beltre, Finley, etc--didn't do much elsewhere. The Dodgers would have been a better team this year with Beltre at third, and Green at first (Do not understand the fascination with Choi--if he plays everyday, he hits .260, 25/75-80/100 K's/75 Walks--not irreplaceable numbers.
The problem with DePodesta was not what he got rid of, it is that he didn't adequately replace anyone, except at second with Kent. Basically, this team went into the season with no starting 3B, no starting catcher, a suspect 1B, an unproven LF (Werth), a potential explosion in CF (Bradley), and an injury-plagued RF (Drew). Is it really a surprise that the Dodgers had production problems in LF, 3B and C? Plus, the LoDuca trade was not a good one--trading a proven set-up guy (Mota) and hoping some rookie (Brazoban) could replace him? It worked out, but blew up in their faces this year. Plus, leaving the team with no catcher was absurd.
As far as the vaunted Dodger farm system, let me know when ONE of their prospects makes any kind of contribution, How's Edwin Jackson working out so far?
None based on the asking price for some, talent level for others. Wasn't complaining about the gutting of the 2005 team, just commenting on how interesting I found the support for him. I've always commented that he should have gone further and gotten something for Gagne/Izzy while the getting was good. I expect that if Depo had to do it over again he also would have done what his instincts told him to do. Course then I think of Scott Erickson and feel that I don't know Depodesta at all.
I am surprised at how nonchalant everyone is with the communication problems that have long been reported. That is not a minor problem that can just be swept under the rug.
The world is not going end if Pat Gillick becomes GM. My 1st choice would be to bring back Dan Evans but since Evans was the one who put Lasorda out to pasture and if it is true that Lasorda is back in the catbirds seat then that scenario looks bleak. My 2nd choice would be Logan White. Gillick is not even on my list but he does have 2 World Championships on his belt so I'm not sure how he got the nickname of "Stand Pat" when he must have done something right in building those powerhouse Toronto teams.
No GM for you!
Next! Next!
>>> Most of his moves haven't worked out... he didn't adequately replace anyone, except at second with Kent
This is not fair at all. Choi/Saenz outperformed Green at 1b and freed up $5M to buy pitching. He replaced Nomo/Ishii/Lima with Lowe/Penny/Houlton. Navarro/Phillips adequately replaced LoDuca IMO. And Beltre for Drew would have been a landslide if Drew made it to August 1st.
And he won the World Series twice!
I do not blame him with those teams. Toronto was stacked.
After winning a College World Series title with USC in 1958, Gillick signed on as a lefty starter in the Orioles' Minor League system. An arm injury curtailed his playing career in 1963, so the newly unemployed 26-year old was immediately hired by the new Colt .45's expansion team (soon to be re-named the Astros) as a scout and scouting director. He moved on to the Yankees' player development and scouting departments in 1974-76, then joined the expansion Toronto Blue Jays, where he was quickly promoted from Vice President of Player Personnel to General Manager. Gillick retired from the Jays following the strike-shortened '94 campaign, but returned to serve as Baltimore's General Manager for the 1996, 1997, and 1998 seasons. Yet another brief retirement came along before Gillick finished off his career as Mariners GM from 2000 through 2003.
Any kind of glance back on Pat Gillick's career as a team builder reveals on greatness, and on multiple levels.
You want a talent evaluator? This is the guy who drafted future stars like Dave Steib, Lloyd Moseby, Jesse Barfield, and Jimmy Key. The guy who once stole a future MVP, George Bell, through the same Rule 5 draft that also produced solid Blue Jays contributors like Willie Upshaw and Kelly Gruber.
Some might say a Hall of Fame GM should be a superlative trader, too. Well, look no further.
Pat Gillick once traded for a young prospect named Fred McGriff and built a two-time World Champion with the 1992-93 Blue Jays by trading for stars like Roberto Alomar, Joe Carter, David Cone, and Rickey Henderson. His best set of trades may have come in his last posting, in Seattle, where found a way to replace expensive superstars like Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey, Jr. and Alex Rodriguez with a well-designed collection of complimentary players including Mike Cameron, Aaron Sele, Bret Boone, and Jeff Nelson.
Of course, none of those decisions amount to much without results, and Gillick has collected those plenty of those, too. He needed six full years to build a winner with the expansion franchise and once he turned the corner he never did look back- Gillick's teams enjoyed winning seasons in every one of the eleven full seasons before his departure from the Toronto, then enjoyed another two winning seasons in Baltimore, and another four straight winners in Seattle. In all, Gillick crafted winning teams in 16 of his last 17 full seasons, nine of which made it into October. One of those teams, the 2001 Mariners, earned 116 team wins and Gillick's recognition as Executive of the Year.
How valuable was Pat Gillick over the course of his career? In the nine combined years prior to his three retirements, the exec's teams averaged 94 wins per year and made seven total playoff appearances. After he left, however, those same ball clubs fell off a cliff by averaging 61 wins and came up with exactly . . . zero playoff appearances. Basically, he made all the difference between his ball clubs' finish at the very top or the very bottom of their divisions.
Among all free agency-era GM's, only John Schuerholz has been Pat Gillick's equal in terms of consistent winning and titles, and even Schuerholz has to come along with a tiny asterisk. After all, the Braves' master architect has worked with bigger budgets during most of his career.
To put Gillick's achievements in their fullest context, however, it's important to remember what they've meant to the course of baseball history. He's contributed to playoff teams with three separate franchises, displaying the kind of team-building versatility matched only by the immortal Rickey's work with the Cardinals, Dodgers, and Pirates. Gillick's two World Series winners, the 1992 and 1993 Blue Jays, were the most popular teams in Major League history in terms of attendance. The capper to his international career may have been the signing of Ichiro Suzuki for the Mariners, the one single move that's done the most to open up Japan's vast talent pool and audiences to Major League Baseball in the new millennium.
If there is no one out there to explain it, you must explain it yourself. You must explain why LoDuca was no loss. You must explain how "proven" set-up men often have just one or two good years before they fall apart again. You must explain why Alex Cora is as useless as ____ on a ____. I often felt like I knew what those people complaining in the Dodger organization were talking about, because I never felt like DePodesta was really communicating with us either.
You make a good point Steve but to be honest that is what I liked most about Depodesta. Always taking the high road and never talking down the players he let go to justify his moves. He was very classy in that way. It may have ultimately cost him his job but at least he did it on his terms. I do hope he gets another cha