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A Season in Savannah (Stanford Magazine)
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Five Questions: Los Angeles Dodgers (2006) (Hardball Times)
Five Questions: Los Angeles Dodgers (2007) (Hardball Times)
Dodger home record: 39-30 (.565)
When Jon attended: 5-3 (.625)
When Jon didn't: 34-27 (.557)
Dodgers at home: 745-600 (.554)
Jon attended: 293-233 (.557)*
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* includes road games attended
Current Roster with Estimated 2008 Salaries
(updated March 28)
Most figures are estimates (some are wild estimates) but will be updated as information comes in. Corrections welcome.
More contract details here.
Starting Pitchers (5)
$12,300,000 Hiroki Kuroda
$10,000,000 Derek Lowe
$9,500,000 Brad Penny
$7,000,000 Esteban Loaiza
*$500,000 Chad Billingsley
Total: $39,300,000
Bullpen (6)
$2,000,000 Takashi Saito
$1,925,000 Joe Beimel
$1,125,000 Scott Proctor
*$500,000 Jonathan Broxton
$500,000 Chan Ho Park
*$400,000 Hong-Chih Kuo
Total: $6,450,000
Starting Lineup (8)
$14,100,000 Andruw Jones
$13,000,000 Rafael Furcal
$9,000,000 Jeff Kent
$8,500,000 Nomar Garciaparra
$8,000,000 Juan Pierre
$500,000 Russell Martin
*$400,000 James Loney
*$400,000 Matt Kemp
Total: $53,900,000
Bench (6)
$875,000 Gary Bennett
$600,000 Mark Sweeney
$424,500 Andre Ethier
$391,000 Delwyn Young
$390,000 Chin-Lung Hu
$390,000 Blake DeWitt
Total: $3,071,000
Disabled List
$12,000,000 Jason Schmidt
*$400,000 Tony Abreu
*$390,000 Andy LaRoche
Total: $12,790,000
Also Paying ...
$1,000,000 Brett Tomko
$750,000 Odalis Perez
$540,000 Yhency Brazoban
$500,000 Randy Wolf
$487,500 Jason Repko
$135,225 Rudy Seanez
$100,000 Mike Lieberthal
$50,000 Ramon Martinez
Total: $3,562,725
Working total: *$113,268,725
*Rough salary estimate
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It's been almost automatic for me this year. Adrian Beltre's name is mentioned, and inwardly I sigh.
Beltre is a player I have always rooted for, whom I have never stopped rooting for, even now that he wears some other city's uniform.
One year ago, I wanted - and expected - Beltre to do well in 2005, and to do well in a Dodger uniform. Neither happened, and frankly, I haven't wanted to deal with it.
Though Beltre continued to play excellent defense in his first season with the Mariners, his offensive statistics declined dramatically from his near-Most Valuable Player season of 2004 - even when adjusted for the tough hitting environment of Safeco Field in Seattle. Beltre batted .255 this season with an on-base percentage of .303 and a slugging percentage of .413. Using park-neutral statistics, he ranked 15th among 20 major-league third basemen with 475 or more plate appearances in VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) and 13th in EQA (Equivalent Average) according to Baseball Prospectus. His OPS+, or on-base percentage plus slugging percentage relative to a league average of 100, was 90, according to Baseball-Reference.com.
Nevertheless, in a world where many decry the $55 million signing of J.D. Drew - who was twice as valuable (31.0 VORP) offensively in 72 games this season than Beltre (15.1) was in 156, people still make the case that letting Beltre go to the Mariners for $64 million was a mistake.
It's a multi-point case arguing that Beltre:
1) would have signed for less money to stay with the Dodgers, had Dodger general manager Paul DePodesta made a more personal effort.
2) plays a valuable defensive position and plays it well.
3) plays almost every day.
4) is 26, meaning his career peak is probably still ahead.
5) was adjusting to a new environment, whereas in his Los Angeles comfort zone he would have done better.
6) was a True Dodger.
Again, speaking as someone who wanted the signing to happen, who completely bought into Beltre's transformation in 2004, let's see how the arguments hold up.
1) Beltre would have signed for less money to stay with the Dodgers, had Dodger general manager Paul DePodesta made a more personal effort.
At some level, this is probably true. If DePodesta had somehow become Beltre's best friend (and I mean that sincerely, not snidely) and then made a competitive offer, it's hard to imagine Beltre leaving.
But how much of a discount would Beltre have granted? Five million dollars? Ten million? Even under the best of circumstances, as long as Beltre agent Scott Boras was negotiating the deal, it's hard to imagine the cost of Beltre's contract coming down very much. Furthermore, isn't it just as likely that in order to make Beltre feel loved, DePodesta would have had to back up his perfume and roses with pretty much the same dollars he would offer someone he didn't love?
While I think the hometown discount argument might be true at some small level, I don't think it's true at a relevant one.
2) Beltre plays a valuable defensive position and plays it well.
A true statement. That the Dodgers struggled to fill third base defensively this year makes it even more pointed. But, speaking again as someone who adored Beltre, it's hard to say that his defensive contributions outweighed his offensive deficiencies enough to make him worth retaining for at least $11 million per year. (And offensively, in 2005, Antonio Perez was better.)
3) Beltre plays almost every day.
Beltre has played more than 150 games in four consecutive seasons and five of the past seven, while suffering from a botched appendectomy in a sixth. In 2004, we watched him play - and even thrive - with painful foot and ankle injuries. He is a gamer.
Where there is doubt going forward, especially in an eight-figure contract, is whether those injuries might reduce his effectiveness, even if he is in the lineup. For example, we have seen Beltre steal 43 bases in 59 attempts during his first three full seasons, then decline to 19 steals in 29 attempts over his next four. Is that a warning sign, or just a tangent?
4) Beltre is 26, meaning his career peak is probably still ahead.
I spent a good part of 2004 arguing that not only was Beltre's offensive explosion in 2004 real, it was not a fluke. (Or are "real" and "not a fluke" the same thing? Oh well - I really just needed a way to link to two past articles.)
Contrary to the belief of even some of his supporters, 2004 was not Beltre's first good season. In 2000, he had an OPS (on-base percentage plus slugging percentage) of .835 with 20 home runs, 30 doubles and 56 walks - excellent for almost any third baseman of any age and absolutely outstanding for one who was 21. This followed a .780 OPS season in 1999, quite nice for someone at age 20. As I showed almost three years ago, it is not unusual for a young talent to start strongly, regress slightly, then regroup to become better than ever. For years, Beltre's offensive career track has most closely mirrored perhaps the best player of all time not in the Hall of Fame, Ron Santo. That, combined with the observable changes in Beltre's batting style in 2004 that showed him taking outside pitches to the opposite field instead of trying to pull them, led me to believe that Beltre would fulfill his superstar promise for many years to come.
However, Beltre supporters should at least consider the fact that for three of the past four seasons (we'll ignore the appendectomy year), his OPS has not topped .730. His EQA has not exceed the major league average in those years. There is certainly a great deal of risk that in a given year, Beltre is not going to deliver up to expectations. And that's a big deal when he's a cornerstone of your payroll.
5) Beltre was adjusting to a new environment, whereas in his Los Angeles comfort zone he would have done better.
This, I have to say, is perhaps the most peculiar argument I've seen Dodger fans have. A significant part of Dodger lore is the player who messes up in the L.A. whites, or is traded too soon, then goes on to have great success in another city. In fact, I would suspect that one of the few unifying threads between sabermetrically inclined and sabermetrically disinclined Dodger fans is this notion. So really, I'm surprised to see the argument materialize that the new surroundings hurt Beltre, and I have to think it's specifically a way to defend Beltre out of loyalty, love or hope - if not also a method to discredit DePodesta.
It's safe to say that you can find plenty of ex-Dodgers who needed no adjustment period with their new teams. It's also safe to say that any player who is worth $64 million should be talented enough not to require an adjustment period - that making this very argument undermines the overall case for signing him.
Furthermore, consider the players the Dodgers retain (yes, critics, there are some). Is there any kind of correlation, let alone causation, between repeated seasons in a Dodger uniform and maintaining performance?
Sure, it's completely possible that in the unique case of Beltre, leaving Los Angeles did harm him. We've all needed to adjust to new jobs, new homes, new cities, new bosses, new friends. We've all needed to adjust to distance from our families. But to what extent? Ultimately, it's a speculative argument, the kind of argument that could be made to justify signing any number of people.
At best, we're talking definite maybe on this one.
6) Beltre was a True Dodger.
Yep. Beltre was a home-grown hero. I sure didn't want to lose him. While I will always make the case that fans respond to winning, and that no one would be arguing for Beltre today if the Dodgers had won 91 games without him, I'm not going to criticize someone for wishing a player whose development they invested so much in was not let go. I think one can contend that in a year where he was so key to the team's 2004 success, and so young, and by most accounts so likeable, that DePodesta should have been willing even to overpay for him.
Even if you believe in DePodesta, hindsight now allows you to make a big-picture argument that in order to preserve himself as the long-term administrator of a plan to make the Dodgers a perennial World Series contender, he needed to throw a bone to sentiment - whether that meant not trading Paul Lo Duca, re-signing Jose Lima (gulp) or hanging onto Beltre. The team might have still gone 71-91, but perhaps the outrage would not have been so high. That's not my argument, but I can see it.
So ...
There you are, 1) through 6). Was it a mistake to let Beltre go? Man, I think you have to be awfully generous to Beltre to shout "yes" with any confidence. After all that's been said, Beltre was a flop in the first year of his new contract, worse than Drew, worse than Derek Lowe, worse than Brad Penny, certainly worse than Jeff Kent.
He wasn't worse than Jose Valentin - and look, if money is no object, I'll take Beltre 2005 over Valentin 2005 any day. But money is an object.
Within four years, we'll find out emphatically whether letting Beltre go was a mistake or not. I still think there's every possibility he'll return to All-Star status and make us rue the day (or continue to rue the day) that he left. But it pains me to say it that I'm less confident that day will come, and more open to the possibility that we were saved from witnessing a disappointing five years. After all, there was a time when I was not alone in thinking Raul Mondesi was going to the Hall of Fame.
* * *
I am scheduled to be a guest on KSPN-AM 710's "The Big Show" with Steve Mason and guest host Matthew Berry at 3:40 p.m. today (with a possible rerun of my appearance in the 6 p.m. hour). Listen kindly.
Update: The interview has been postponed until approximately 5 p.m.
* * *
Update: Jeff Angus of Management by Baseball has Part 2 of his series on the McCourts and DePodesta.
Also, Christina Karl has an interesting post on the GM shuffle at baseballprospectus.
Stan from Tacoma
vr, Xei
Good luck this afternoon. I will stomach Steve Mason to listen to you. (Actually I don't think I have ever heard your voice. Obviously read and enjoyed your stuff, seen your picture, but never heard your voice.)
Jon has a voice that sounds like a cross between James Earl Jones and Walter Brennan.
Jon, are you basing this on his B-Ref's Similarity Scores? Because that only measures things like ABs, hits, RBIs, and HRs.
Ron Santo put up a .800+ OPS and above league average OBP four times before he was 26. Beltre put up a .800+ twice and an above league average OBP three times before he was 26. He was clearly a much better hitter than Beltre by the time both were 25.
As you said, Beltre was going to be expensive and it was unclear whether he was going to live up to the dollar value of his contract. More importantly, DePodesta knew how to assemble pieces that, as a whole, could replace his performance with less risk. That makes letting Beltre leave a great decision whether Beltre hits like Alex Rodriguez for the next decade or not. The process, not the result, should determine whether something is a good decision or not.
"The silver lining lies in Beltre's defense. Looking at the Mariner DT card team page, we can see that Beltre ranks second on the squad using either FRAR or FRAA. On the strength of this defense, Beltre does have a shot at being a 5 win player this year. But so what?
Calculating Beltre's Marginal Revenue Product (MRP), we see that his current 3.4 WARP1 total equals $7.28 million in value, and if he does indeed finish as a five win player, the M's still will not be getting the best bang for their buck. Beltre's average annual value equals $12.8 million, and it is unlikely he will be worth that much in 2005. To make matters worse, it was generally perceived that the M's got a bargain because they jumped on the Beltre bandwagon so quickly. "
Considering how closely we all followed the Beltre situation I don't recall anyone saying that they believed the Mariners got a bargain.
I still expect Beltre to bounce back and improve on those 2005 numbers and I'll be surprised if he is not worth 10-12 Million per year over the next few years. He put it all together in August of this year and I expect him to do that for several more months next year instead of just one. I would have no problem placing a bet that Beltre will be worth more then JD Drew over the next 4 years.
http://www.baseballreference.com/about/similarity.shtml
I'm not trying to say that Beltre is Santo's literal equal.
Unless you had objective reason to believe that Duke was going to win - that it wasn't a gamble.
But again, we're quibbling. We certainly will know plenty before 2009; we just won't know it all.
Slow down with your typing there....
Beltre has ALWAYS hit better in the second half. Every year. August was his best month in 2005, 2004, 2003, and 2002. I wouldn't read into it.
Fear: Beltre (whom I also was quite fond of, long longing for his 2004 breakout and soooo very joyful with how much more he presented himself to be that season) might perform so well next year that the critics of DePodesta rub salt into the wounds by claiming more so-called evidence that DePodesta made a mistake.
Jon: consider evaluating the fate of Paul LoDuca, the other long-lamented departee... It might do us all good to re-evaluate the major decisions made along the way to reassure us that the reasons for DePodesta's departure were not based upon rational examination of his decisions, but other things.
(Such as his ability to communicate, manage a major change effort, etc.)
"have to have plenty of Blistex on hand to keep the Bossling happy"
As for Theo Epstein, I would love to see Plaschke's reaction if we signed him. On one hand, he's a young "computer-worshipping nerd." On the other hand, he's won a World Series. Plaschke might self-destruct.
The measure counting stats pretty well. But when you compare the two side by side, they're not very good comps:
Age 20-25 seasons, OPS/OPS+:
Beltre: 780/100, 835/116, 720/93, 729/98, 714/89, 1017/163
Santo: 720/97, 842/121, 659/74, 820/129, 962/164, 888/146
5 times Beltre was at or below league average OPS, Santo only twice.
So who's going to tell him?
Guilty until proven innocent, eh?
It seems to me this is one way a Sabermetric GM will distinguish himself over his traditional counterparts: He will have sophisticated metrics that help him decide what to do about an enigma such as Beltre. He won't always be right, but maybe he'll be right more often. And he'll NEVER give Christian Guzman more than pocket change.
1- the dodger thoughts blog community will rally with pitchforks and fire about mccourts home if he hires bowden
2- get the public to realize how good our farm system is and not to let the new GM blow our future just to win an extra 5 games now. THE JACKSONVILLE DYNASTY WILL ARRIVE SOON!
3- endorse epstein!
Drew is going to undergo surgery for his right shoulder and right wrist on Tuesday, but not the broken left wrist that put him on the DL to begin with, the LA Times reports. "There were things we knew we were going to do over the off-season," GM Paul DePodesta said of the shoulder, referring to it as an "arthritic condition." Drew won't have surgery on his left wrist unless the bone chip there is still bothering him a month from now.
Secondly, he was thowing the ball much harder than he ever did before. He never threw 98 before. He was in the 93-94 range as a starter. It is widely said that steroids will put 3-4 mph on the fastball. I don't buy the notion that he was pacing himself when he was a starter. You'd think he would have thrown his hardest at least once or twice, as a starter.
Like I said, no hard proof. But if he never hits high 90's on his fastball again, I'd wonder why. The fact that Dr. Jobe found his elbow ligament to be 100% intact would mean that there is no physical limitation from Gagne from getting back to his old self. If anything, with all the rest he's getting, he should come back fresher.
Being a roto player, I have to take into account the numbers and how steriod testing was going to change them. I'll be going to a conference on Friday in Arizona that is going to address this in detail. I'm looking forward to the information.
Been alot of starters who converted to relief who were able to add several MPH to their fastball once they were able to air it out on every pitch and not pace themselves.
That was my point Nate. Something is always wrong somewhere, it wasn't just the broken left wrist this year as everyone likes to believe. He could just as easily been benched by the chronic shoulder problem, the right wrist, the surgically repaired knee. Who knows.
broxton was throwing in the low 90s starting at the beginning of the year. made the switch to the bullpen, and his velocity reguarly spiked to the mid to high 90s.
i think it has to do with the ability to just let it fly for one inning and not worrying about retaining the stamina throughout the whole game.
personally, what made gagne so great was not his fb velocity, but the development of one of the best change ups i have ever seen.
Good luck with it Jon.
well we have 4 more years to find out if he can have one fully healthy season. yay!
There is nothing like indisputable proof, just a pattern that I see.
[36] but the fact is that until he got pegged by the fastball, he was in the lineup and he was very productive. so it seems pretty apparent that those other injuries weren't limiting him much.
You have to let those guys at 710 know how awful Bowden is and mention how bad of a signing Crisitan Guzman was. Tell him Jon PLEASSEEE!!!!!
he is always on around the horn. he is halarious, but i dont know how he would know...
He was only productive in June. Everyone seems to have forgotten how mediocre his April and May were. I think Karros and Beltre told him about the Dodger way, which in their case was to use April and May to get ready for the hot weather.
Take it with a grain of salt and please don't stone me over it. It's just something I heard.
Good luck Jon, Mason can be a real @@@-hole at times and will most likely take some cheap shots at Depo. I also hope you can make some good plugs for the DT blog, Theo and the sabermetric ship o fools. I will try to find an online link to listen. :)
vr, Xei
My take: Let everyone use it, or don't let anyone use it.
In considering Beltre, one possible reason for his decline was just plain jitters. A lot of players, especially young guys, start pressing when they get their first big contract, whether with their old team or a new one. Has anyone tracked how many pitches Beltre took per AB compared with '04? That might be one indicator. Another is where he hit the ball--pulling everything again?
For those who say, "Where is the indisputable proof?" I say, "Fair enough." 'Nuff said on the subject.
I'd rather Jimmy stayed clean so he can continue to mess up the Nationals and trade us Wilkerson and Patterson. I no longer fear that Jimmy Bowden will become our GM. If it is so then all those chicken littles will have been proven right and I'll just have to find something else to do other then drive myself crazy over the state of the Dodgers.
http://tinyurl.com/78y6r
There is an interesting article at Mike's Baseball Rants called 'Saber-Rattled', which is mostly about Theo Epstein but in the first paragraph it mentions Depodesta getting fired, and rightly so. There was no explaining as to why the author thought he should've been fired.
vr, Xei
I don't either. But it's absurd to just start naming people you think take them because they look like they might take them.
Has anyone tracked how many pitches Beltre took per AB compared with '04? That might be one indicator.
It isn't that.
2005 P/PA: 3.96
2004 P/PA: 3.75
I think it's pretty clear that Beltre had a fluke season.
Apparently Michael Pillar just died.
Damn, he wasn't that old.
I dont see how this situation is any different than when Joe Dumars fired Rick Carlisle, and replaced him with Larry Brown.
If the best guy is out there, you go get him, no matter if the current guy is doing a good job or not. And I think thats strictly what will happen in this case.
Tommy Lasorda is overrated on this site.
At least Steve Phillips isn't being mentioned for the GM slot.
Sheesh, I'm like Moe the Bartender.
Considering that they fired DePo a day before Epstein backed out of signing a new contract, you have no way of knowing that.