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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Beltre Sigh
2005-11-01 10:50
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

It's been almost automatic for me this year. Adrian Beltre's name is mentioned, and inwardly I sigh.

Beltre is a player I have always rooted for, whom I have never stopped rooting for, even now that he wears some other city's uniform.

One year ago, I wanted - and expected - Beltre to do well in 2005, and to do well in a Dodger uniform. Neither happened, and frankly, I haven't wanted to deal with it.

Though Beltre continued to play excellent defense in his first season with the Mariners, his offensive statistics declined dramatically from his near-Most Valuable Player season of 2004 - even when adjusted for the tough hitting environment of Safeco Field in Seattle. Beltre batted .255 this season with an on-base percentage of .303 and a slugging percentage of .413. Using park-neutral statistics, he ranked 15th among 20 major-league third basemen with 475 or more plate appearances in VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) and 13th in EQA (Equivalent Average) according to Baseball Prospectus. His OPS+, or on-base percentage plus slugging percentage relative to a league average of 100, was 90, according to Baseball-Reference.com.

Nevertheless, in a world where many decry the $55 million signing of J.D. Drew - who was twice as valuable (31.0 VORP) offensively in 72 games this season than Beltre (15.1) was in 156, people still make the case that letting Beltre go to the Mariners for $64 million was a mistake.

It's a multi-point case arguing that Beltre:

1) would have signed for less money to stay with the Dodgers, had Dodger general manager Paul DePodesta made a more personal effort.
2) plays a valuable defensive position and plays it well.
3) plays almost every day.
4) is 26, meaning his career peak is probably still ahead.
5) was adjusting to a new environment, whereas in his Los Angeles comfort zone he would have done better.
6) was a True Dodger.

Again, speaking as someone who wanted the signing to happen, who completely bought into Beltre's transformation in 2004, let's see how the arguments hold up.

1) Beltre would have signed for less money to stay with the Dodgers, had Dodger general manager Paul DePodesta made a more personal effort.

At some level, this is probably true. If DePodesta had somehow become Beltre's best friend (and I mean that sincerely, not snidely) and then made a competitive offer, it's hard to imagine Beltre leaving.

But how much of a discount would Beltre have granted? Five million dollars? Ten million? Even under the best of circumstances, as long as Beltre agent Scott Boras was negotiating the deal, it's hard to imagine the cost of Beltre's contract coming down very much. Furthermore, isn't it just as likely that in order to make Beltre feel loved, DePodesta would have had to back up his perfume and roses with pretty much the same dollars he would offer someone he didn't love?

While I think the hometown discount argument might be true at some small level, I don't think it's true at a relevant one.

2) Beltre plays a valuable defensive position and plays it well.

A true statement. That the Dodgers struggled to fill third base defensively this year makes it even more pointed. But, speaking again as someone who adored Beltre, it's hard to say that his defensive contributions outweighed his offensive deficiencies enough to make him worth retaining for at least $11 million per year. (And offensively, in 2005, Antonio Perez was better.)

3) Beltre plays almost every day.

Beltre has played more than 150 games in four consecutive seasons and five of the past seven, while suffering from a botched appendectomy in a sixth. In 2004, we watched him play - and even thrive - with painful foot and ankle injuries. He is a gamer.

Where there is doubt going forward, especially in an eight-figure contract, is whether those injuries might reduce his effectiveness, even if he is in the lineup. For example, we have seen Beltre steal 43 bases in 59 attempts during his first three full seasons, then decline to 19 steals in 29 attempts over his next four. Is that a warning sign, or just a tangent?

4) Beltre is 26, meaning his career peak is probably still ahead.

I spent a good part of 2004 arguing that not only was Beltre's offensive explosion in 2004 real, it was not a fluke. (Or are "real" and "not a fluke" the same thing? Oh well - I really just needed a way to link to two past articles.)

Contrary to the belief of even some of his supporters, 2004 was not Beltre's first good season. In 2000, he had an OPS (on-base percentage plus slugging percentage) of .835 with 20 home runs, 30 doubles and 56 walks - excellent for almost any third baseman of any age and absolutely outstanding for one who was 21. This followed a .780 OPS season in 1999, quite nice for someone at age 20. As I showed almost three years ago, it is not unusual for a young talent to start strongly, regress slightly, then regroup to become better than ever. For years, Beltre's offensive career track has most closely mirrored perhaps the best player of all time not in the Hall of Fame, Ron Santo. That, combined with the observable changes in Beltre's batting style in 2004 that showed him taking outside pitches to the opposite field instead of trying to pull them, led me to believe that Beltre would fulfill his superstar promise for many years to come.

However, Beltre supporters should at least consider the fact that for three of the past four seasons (we'll ignore the appendectomy year), his OPS has not topped .730. His EQA has not exceed the major league average in those years. There is certainly a great deal of risk that in a given year, Beltre is not going to deliver up to expectations. And that's a big deal when he's a cornerstone of your payroll.

5) Beltre was adjusting to a new environment, whereas in his Los Angeles comfort zone he would have done better.

This, I have to say, is perhaps the most peculiar argument I've seen Dodger fans have. A significant part of Dodger lore is the player who messes up in the L.A. whites, or is traded too soon, then goes on to have great success in another city. In fact, I would suspect that one of the few unifying threads between sabermetrically inclined and sabermetrically disinclined Dodger fans is this notion. So really, I'm surprised to see the argument materialize that the new surroundings hurt Beltre, and I have to think it's specifically a way to defend Beltre out of loyalty, love or hope - if not also a method to discredit DePodesta.

It's safe to say that you can find plenty of ex-Dodgers who needed no adjustment period with their new teams. It's also safe to say that any player who is worth $64 million should be talented enough not to require an adjustment period - that making this very argument undermines the overall case for signing him.

Furthermore, consider the players the Dodgers retain (yes, critics, there are some). Is there any kind of correlation, let alone causation, between repeated seasons in a Dodger uniform and maintaining performance?

Sure, it's completely possible that in the unique case of Beltre, leaving Los Angeles did harm him. We've all needed to adjust to new jobs, new homes, new cities, new bosses, new friends. We've all needed to adjust to distance from our families. But to what extent? Ultimately, it's a speculative argument, the kind of argument that could be made to justify signing any number of people.

At best, we're talking definite maybe on this one.

6) Beltre was a True Dodger.

Yep. Beltre was a home-grown hero. I sure didn't want to lose him. While I will always make the case that fans respond to winning, and that no one would be arguing for Beltre today if the Dodgers had won 91 games without him, I'm not going to criticize someone for wishing a player whose development they invested so much in was not let go. I think one can contend that in a year where he was so key to the team's 2004 success, and so young, and by most accounts so likeable, that DePodesta should have been willing even to overpay for him.

Even if you believe in DePodesta, hindsight now allows you to make a big-picture argument that in order to preserve himself as the long-term administrator of a plan to make the Dodgers a perennial World Series contender, he needed to throw a bone to sentiment - whether that meant not trading Paul Lo Duca, re-signing Jose Lima (gulp) or hanging onto Beltre. The team might have still gone 71-91, but perhaps the outrage would not have been so high. That's not my argument, but I can see it.

So ...

There you are, 1) through 6). Was it a mistake to let Beltre go? Man, I think you have to be awfully generous to Beltre to shout "yes" with any confidence. After all that's been said, Beltre was a flop in the first year of his new contract, worse than Drew, worse than Derek Lowe, worse than Brad Penny, certainly worse than Jeff Kent.

He wasn't worse than Jose Valentin - and look, if money is no object, I'll take Beltre 2005 over Valentin 2005 any day. But money is an object.

Within four years, we'll find out emphatically whether letting Beltre go was a mistake or not. I still think there's every possibility he'll return to All-Star status and make us rue the day (or continue to rue the day) that he left. But it pains me to say it that I'm less confident that day will come, and more open to the possibility that we were saved from witnessing a disappointing five years. After all, there was a time when I was not alone in thinking Raul Mondesi was going to the Hall of Fame.

* * *

I am scheduled to be a guest on KSPN-AM 710's "The Big Show" with Steve Mason and guest host Matthew Berry at 3:40 p.m. today (with a possible rerun of my appearance in the 6 p.m. hour). Listen kindly.

Update: The interview has been postponed until approximately 5 p.m.

* * *

Update: Jeff Angus of Management by Baseball has Part 2 of his series on the McCourts and DePodesta.

Comments (441)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-11-01 11:25:35
1.   the OZ
Am I the first one to post? Cool. Good luck with the Radio spot.

Also, Christina Karl has an interesting post on the GM shuffle at baseballprospectus.

2005-11-01 11:29:56
2.   dagwich
Continuing from the other thread -- I hope Depo gets the Tampa GM job. From his point of view, it must be a lower pressure situation so he can work on his GM chops some more. Personally, it would give me motivation to become a fan of the DRays and go more often to see their AAA team, the Durham Bulls. The DBAP (Durham Bulls Athletic Park) is about 5 minutes from my house.
2005-11-01 11:30:44
3.   Xeifrank
Nice write up. I will try my hardest to hear the interview. Is there an online listening link for this radio station? Best of luck... vr, Xei
2005-11-01 11:31:45
4.   popup
I am a Dodger fan and a Mariner fan. Right now, given recent events I consider myself more of a Mariner fan. I am sure that if LaSorda right now offered Drew for Beltre the Mariners would say yes in a heartbeat.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-01 11:32:12
5.   bigcpa
Jon- are you trying to deal psychologically with the Dodgers front office armageddon by writing about... baseball?! Not a bad idea.
2005-11-01 11:32:57
6.   Xeifrank
2. With $800k going into his bank account each of the next three years and his wife pregnant, if I were Depo I'd just relax for a year or two and concentrate on being a new parent. Whatever he decides to do, I will wish him the best and will be a fan of whatever team he goes to -NL West -Yankees.
vr, Xei
2005-11-01 11:38:28
7.   LAT
Jon, very nice analysis of a debate that has been looming here for nearly a year.

Good luck this afternoon. I will stomach Steve Mason to listen to you. (Actually I don't think I have ever heard your voice. Obviously read and enjoyed your stuff, seen your picture, but never heard your voice.)

2005-11-01 11:46:18
8.   Bob Timmermann
Since Jon and Steve Mason have shared the dais before at a public event, Jon will do OK.

Jon has a voice that sounds like a cross between James Earl Jones and Walter Brennan.

2005-11-01 11:48:19
9.   Dr Love
For years, Beltre's offensive career track has most closely mirrored perhaps the best player of all time not in the Hall of Fame, Ron Santo.

Jon, are you basing this on his B-Ref's Similarity Scores? Because that only measures things like ABs, hits, RBIs, and HRs.

Ron Santo put up a .800+ OPS and above league average OBP four times before he was 26. Beltre put up a .800+ twice and an above league average OBP three times before he was 26. He was clearly a much better hitter than Beltre by the time both were 25.

2005-11-01 11:53:39
10.   Baseballistic Ben
Great write-up of the debate on Beltre. One minor quibble though. I don't think we need 4 years to judge whether it was a mistake to not sign Beltre. That's the kind of ex-post thinking that DePodesta was wise to ignore. Even if you win a trillion dollars by betting your house and your first-born on Duke to beat USC in football, the decision to bet remains a bad one.

As you said, Beltre was going to be expensive and it was unclear whether he was going to live up to the dollar value of his contract. More importantly, DePodesta knew how to assemble pieces that, as a whole, could replace his performance with less risk. That makes letting Beltre leave a great decision whether Beltre hits like Alex Rodriguez for the next decade or not. The process, not the result, should determine whether something is a good decision or not.

2005-11-01 11:55:15
11.   molokai
From BP around late August:
"The silver lining lies in Beltre's defense. Looking at the Mariner DT card team page, we can see that Beltre ranks second on the squad using either FRAR or FRAA. On the strength of this defense, Beltre does have a shot at being a 5 win player this year. But so what?

Calculating Beltre's Marginal Revenue Product (MRP), we see that his current 3.4 WARP1 total equals $7.28 million in value, and if he does indeed finish as a five win player, the M's still will not be getting the best bang for their buck. Beltre's average annual value equals $12.8 million, and it is unlikely he will be worth that much in 2005. To make matters worse, it was generally perceived that the M's got a bargain because they jumped on the Beltre bandwagon so quickly. "

Considering how closely we all followed the Beltre situation I don't recall anyone saying that they believed the Mariners got a bargain.

I still expect Beltre to bounce back and improve on those 2005 numbers and I'll be surprised if he is not worth 10-12 Million per year over the next few years. He put it all together in August of this year and I expect him to do that for several more months next year instead of just one. I would have no problem placing a bet that Beltre will be worth more then JD Drew over the next 4 years.

2005-11-01 11:55:50
12.   Jon Weisman
The similarity scores seem to measure offense pretty comprehensively.

http://www.baseballreference.com/about/similarity.shtml

I'm not trying to say that Beltre is Santo's literal equal.

2005-11-01 11:59:52
13.   Jon Weisman
10 - "Even if you win a trillion dollars by betting your house and your first-born on Duke to beat USC in football, the decision to bet remains a bad one."

Unless you had objective reason to believe that Duke was going to win - that it wasn't a gamble.

But again, we're quibbling. We certainly will know plenty before 2009; we just won't know it all.

2005-11-01 12:01:55
14.   student of the game
ESPNnews accounced that the Dodgers have contacted Theo Epstein.
2005-11-01 12:02:41
15.   Bob Timmermann
14

Slow down with your typing there....

2005-11-01 12:04:22
16.   student of the game
15 sorry, new computer...
2005-11-01 12:04:48
17.   Dr Love
He put it all together in August of this year and I expect him to do that for several more months next year instead of just one

Beltre has ALWAYS hit better in the second half. Every year. August was his best month in 2005, 2004, 2003, and 2002. I wouldn't read into it.

2005-11-01 12:06:38
18.   Jon Weisman
16 - Ah, - blaming the computers - where have I seen that before? :)
2005-11-01 12:08:29
19.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
I have been fuming the past several days (even wrote a tirade to the LATimes Sports Editor), and one of my fuming thoughts has been abject fear.

Fear: Beltre (whom I also was quite fond of, long longing for his 2004 breakout and soooo very joyful with how much more he presented himself to be that season) might perform so well next year that the critics of DePodesta rub salt into the wounds by claiming more so-called evidence that DePodesta made a mistake.

Jon: consider evaluating the fate of Paul LoDuca, the other long-lamented departee... It might do us all good to re-evaluate the major decisions made along the way to reassure us that the reasons for DePodesta's departure were not based upon rational examination of his decisions, but other things.

(Such as his ability to communicate, manage a major change effort, etc.)

2005-11-01 12:08:57
20.   Kayaker7
1 There something sexy about a woman who can write so eloquently about baseball. This phrase makes me blush for some reason:

"have to have plenty of Blistex on hand to keep the Bossling happy"

2005-11-01 12:09:42
21.   Ben P
Good analysis on Beltre, John. It has been bizarre of late to read willfully ignorant arguments about how they should have kept him (despite his horrid stats this year) AND the annoying argument that the Dodgers "should have known" Drew would get hit on the wrist by a fastball.

As for Theo Epstein, I would love to see Plaschke's reaction if we signed him. On one hand, he's a young "computer-worshipping nerd." On the other hand, he's won a World Series. Plaschke might self-destruct.

2005-11-01 12:10:22
22.   Dr Love
The similarity scores seem to measure offense pretty comprehensively.

The measure counting stats pretty well. But when you compare the two side by side, they're not very good comps:

Age 20-25 seasons, OPS/OPS+:

Beltre: 780/100, 835/116, 720/93, 729/98, 714/89, 1017/163
Santo: 720/97, 842/121, 659/74, 820/129, 962/164, 888/146

5 times Beltre was at or below league average OPS, Santo only twice.

2005-11-01 12:10:28
23.   molokai
And while the comparisons to Santo might be valid it is fairly certain that Santo never subscribed to steriods while with Beltre we have the red flag because of the 2004 aberration. No one likes to talk about steriods here but you can't sweep the gorilla under the carpet. Until Beltre can come close to what he did in 2004 while being tested for steroids I will always wonder.
2005-11-01 12:14:16
24.   Bob Timmermann
20

So who's going to tell him?

2005-11-01 12:14:23
25.   Dr Love
Until Beltre can come close to what he did in 2004 while being tested for steroids I will always wonder.

Guilty until proven innocent, eh?

2005-11-01 12:14:28
26.   Kayaker7
23 As a long time weightlifter, by my experience eye, Gagne was juicing 2003-2004. I would not be surprised if he never hits 98 MPH on his fastball. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
2005-11-01 12:19:46
27.   Vishal
[26] got any specific indicators, or do we just have to take the word of your eye?
2005-11-01 12:19:49
28.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
It's a shame DePo didn't get the credit for the players he DIDN'T sign to the same degree he got ripped for the ones he DID sign. His refusal to sign Beltre, Finley and others to big contracts will have the Dodgers in a stronger position for years, and his successor will reap the benefits.

It seems to me this is one way a Sabermetric GM will distinguish himself over his traditional counterparts: He will have sophisticated metrics that help him decide what to do about an enigma such as Beltre. He won't always be right, but maybe he'll be right more often. And he'll NEVER give Christian Guzman more than pocket change.

2005-11-01 12:23:13
29.   natepurcell
jon, if you havent gone on yet, can you mention a couple of things:

1- the dodger thoughts blog community will rally with pitchforks and fire about mccourts home if he hires bowden
2- get the public to realize how good our farm system is and not to let the new GM blow our future just to win an extra 5 games now. THE JACKSONVILLE DYNASTY WILL ARRIVE SOON!
3- endorse epstein!

2005-11-01 12:25:58
30.   molokai
09-15-05
Drew is going to undergo surgery for his right shoulder and right wrist on Tuesday, but not the broken left wrist that put him on the DL to begin with, the LA Times reports. "There were things we knew we were going to do over the off-season," GM Paul DePodesta said of the shoulder, referring to it as an "arthritic condition." Drew won't have surgery on his left wrist unless the bone chip there is still bothering him a month from now.
2005-11-01 12:26:48
31.   natepurcell
one more thing, can someone tape jons interview and put it online. thanks in advance.
2005-11-01 12:27:22
32.   natepurcell
what was wrong with drews right wrist?
2005-11-01 12:30:26
33.   Kayaker7
26 He just got hulking big in a very short period of time. No highly trained athlete can gain that kind of muscular mass in one short off-season. The only possible way to achieve that is for a sedentary person, who has good genetic potential for muscular gains, to be put on a strict diet and exercise. A de-trained athlete getting back to previous levels of muscle mass can also gain quickly.

Secondly, he was thowing the ball much harder than he ever did before. He never threw 98 before. He was in the 93-94 range as a starter. It is widely said that steroids will put 3-4 mph on the fastball. I don't buy the notion that he was pacing himself when he was a starter. You'd think he would have thrown his hardest at least once or twice, as a starter.

Like I said, no hard proof. But if he never hits high 90's on his fastball again, I'd wonder why. The fact that Dr. Jobe found his elbow ligament to be 100% intact would mean that there is no physical limitation from Gagne from getting back to his old self. If anything, with all the rest he's getting, he should come back fresher.

2005-11-01 12:30:37
34.   molokai
25
Being a roto player, I have to take into account the numbers and how steriod testing was going to change them. I'll be going to a conference on Friday in Arizona that is going to address this in detail. I'm looking forward to the information.
2005-11-01 12:31:53
35.   molokai
33
Been alot of starters who converted to relief who were able to add several MPH to their fastball once they were able to air it out on every pitch and not pace themselves.
2005-11-01 12:34:03
36.   molokai
30
That was my point Nate. Something is always wrong somewhere, it wasn't just the broken left wrist this year as everyone likes to believe. He could just as easily been benched by the chronic shoulder problem, the right wrist, the surgically repaired knee. Who knows.
2005-11-01 12:35:53
37.   natepurcell
to add to 33

broxton was throwing in the low 90s starting at the beginning of the year. made the switch to the bullpen, and his velocity reguarly spiked to the mid to high 90s.

i think it has to do with the ability to just let it fly for one inning and not worrying about retaining the stamina throughout the whole game.

personally, what made gagne so great was not his fb velocity, but the development of one of the best change ups i have ever seen.

2005-11-01 12:36:29
38.   Rick
If anyone is able to transcribe Jon's radio journeys today I would love to get a copy. I won't be able to hear the spot.

Good luck with it Jon.

2005-11-01 12:37:18
39.   natepurcell
That was my point Nate. Something is always wrong somewhere, it wasn't just the broken left wrist this year as everyone likes to believe. He could just as easily been benched by the chronic shoulder problem, the right wrist, the surgically repaired knee. Who knows.

well we have 4 more years to find out if he can have one fully healthy season. yay!

2005-11-01 12:38:51
40.   Kayaker7
35 So, Penny should be able to hit 100, if he became a reliever? Why couldn't Gagne hit 98 before he hurt his knee and elbow?

There is nothing like indisputable proof, just a pattern that I see.

2005-11-01 12:39:07
41.   Vishal
[33] as molokai said, there are plenty of examples of starters throwing a few MPH harder when they come out of the bullpen. in fact, i think that happened to broxton just this year.

[36] but the fact is that until he got pegged by the fastball, he was in the lineup and he was very productive. so it seems pretty apparent that those other injuries weren't limiting him much.

2005-11-01 12:41:12
42.   fawnkyj
Jon-

You have to let those guys at 710 know how awful Bowden is and mention how bad of a signing Crisitan Guzman was. Tell him Jon PLEASSEEE!!!!!

2005-11-01 12:41:38
43.   natepurcell
i am getting impatient. i want to know who our new GM is like, right now.
2005-11-01 12:41:48
44.   student of the game
Is Woody Page a writer for any paper? ESPNnews said that "Woody Page reported on Cold Pizza..." that the Dodgers have contacted Epstein. Is he an LA or Boston reporter?
2005-11-01 12:43:45
45.   Kayaker7
43 He is 78 years old, Italian, with gray hair. ;-)
2005-11-01 12:43:53
46.   natepurcell
woody paige writes for the denver newspaper i think.

he is always on around the horn. he is halarious, but i dont know how he would know...

2005-11-01 12:45:40
47.   Humma Kavula
thought it was the dallas morning news...
2005-11-01 12:46:15
48.   Humma Kavula
...nope, denver post, I'm an idiot.
2005-11-01 12:50:23
49.   natepurcell
I dont really listen to woody paiges opinions, but the only reason i watch around the horn is because he is on it. hes one funny guy.
2005-11-01 12:53:39
50.   molokai
36
He was only productive in June. Everyone seems to have forgotten how mediocre his April and May were. I think Karros and Beltre told him about the Dodger way, which in their case was to use April and May to get ready for the hot weather.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-11-01 12:53:46
51.   Jesse
jim colborn is friends with a lot of people in ventura, where i'm from, and I heard from a source, that had heard from colby, that he (colborn) had told gagne that the national league mvp and cy young award winners were on steroids in 2003. He was also worried that gagne was going to get hurt as a result.

Take it with a grain of salt and please don't stone me over it. It's just something I heard.

2005-11-01 13:00:45
52.   Dr Love
Is everybody getting geared up to see "Good Night and Good Luck" by enacting their own brand of McCarthyism with steroids? This is ridiculous. I would think that people here would be smart enough to not blindly speculate on who is using PEDs.
2005-11-01 13:05:40
53.   Xeifrank
33. I thought that Gagne had some dietary or illness problem that affected his weight???

Good luck Jon, Mason can be a real @@@-hole at times and will most likely take some cheap shots at Depo. I also hope you can make some good plugs for the DT blog, Theo and the sabermetric ship o fools. I will try to find an online link to listen. :)
vr, Xei

2005-11-01 13:05:57
54.   Steve
Jim Bowden uses steroids and needs a long, long suspension of twenty five years.
2005-11-01 13:06:21
55.   Kayaker7
52 As for me personally, I don't think steroids are a huge public health menace. A lot of bodybuilders from the 60's and 70's are still around to live to live to a ripe old age. One even became a governor of a state. Used judiciously, under a physicians care, it can improve athletic performance far beyong what can be achieved naturally. That said, it is cheating and unethical if the rules fobid its use...which baseball did not explicitly do until recently.

My take: Let everyone use it, or don't let anyone use it.

2005-11-01 13:08:16
56.   dzzrtRatt
Something bugs me about steroid speculation. The players (and their union) brought it on themselves, but still, until any of these players show results from peeing in a cup, I'd prefer not to read any more long-distance diagnoses, here or anywhere else.

In considering Beltre, one possible reason for his decline was just plain jitters. A lot of players, especially young guys, start pressing when they get their first big contract, whether with their old team or a new one. Has anyone tracked how many pitches Beltre took per AB compared with '04? That might be one indicator. Another is where he hit the ball--pulling everything again?

2005-11-01 13:08:55
57.   Kayaker7
53 Just like the one that Ivan Rodriguez had over this past off-season, and the same one that Barry Bonds will have this off-season? Oh, I forgot, Barry said he will consciously lose weight to reduce load on his surgically repaired knee.

For those who say, "Where is the indisputable proof?" I say, "Fair enough." 'Nuff said on the subject.

2005-11-01 13:11:52
58.   molokai
54
I'd rather Jimmy stayed clean so he can continue to mess up the Nationals and trade us Wilkerson and Patterson. I no longer fear that Jimmy Bowden will become our GM. If it is so then all those chicken littles will have been proven right and I'll just have to find something else to do other then drive myself crazy over the state of the Dodgers.
2005-11-01 13:13:18
59.   dzzrtRatt
so...is there anything good to say about Bowden, since it appears Lasorda is hell-bent to get that guy an address on Elysian Park? Other than the fact that he makes it a regular practice to kiss Tommy's rear in Macy's window the day after Thanksgiving, why do his advocates advocate for him?
2005-11-01 13:18:33
60.   capdodger
53 I think you can find more about his condition here:
http://tinyurl.com/78y6r
2005-11-01 13:18:38
61.   Xeifrank
I couldn't find a Live online link at espnradio710 dot com. What a bummer, many other radio stations have a link on their webpage so you can listen to the radio station on the internet. If anyone can find a link to listen to Jon's interview, please post it!

There is an interesting article at Mike's Baseball Rants called 'Saber-Rattled', which is mostly about Theo Epstein but in the first paragraph it mentions Depodesta getting fired, and rightly so. There was no explaining as to why the author thought he should've been fired.
vr, Xei

2005-11-01 13:18:49
62.   Dr Love
I don't think steroids are a huge public health menace.

I don't either. But it's absurd to just start naming people you think take them because they look like they might take them.

Has anyone tracked how many pitches Beltre took per AB compared with '04? That might be one indicator.

It isn't that.

2005 P/PA: 3.96
2004 P/PA: 3.75

I think it's pretty clear that Beltre had a fluke season.

2005-11-01 13:19:03
63.   Bob Timmermann
As pointed out in the previous thread (or it may have been this one), someone mentioned that Tony Jackson of the Daily News wrote that Bowden was not considered a serious candidate.
2005-11-01 13:19:42
64.   Xeifrank
60. Thanks. But tinyUrl is blocked on the computer I am currently using. vr, Xei
2005-11-01 13:19:55
65.   molokai
Because he sounded good on ESPN much like Steve Philips. That got Bucky Martinez/ Bob Brenly jobs.
2005-11-01 13:21:29
66.   Telemachos
random aside:

Apparently Michael Pillar just died.

Damn, he wasn't that old.

2005-11-01 13:21:50
67.   oldbear
58. I agree. Bowden isnt going to be the Dodgers GM. The McCourts were originally going to stick with DePo until they found out that Theo Epstein would become available. Once they found that out, they needed to fire DePo, but do it in a reasonable way. Enter Tommy Lasorda to spin a "return to the Dodger Way" spin job.

I dont see how this situation is any different than when Joe Dumars fired Rick Carlisle, and replaced him with Larry Brown.

If the best guy is out there, you go get him, no matter if the current guy is doing a good job or not. And I think thats strictly what will happen in this case.

Tommy Lasorda is overrated on this site.

2005-11-01 13:23:21
68.   gvette
65-- Amazingly enough, sounding good on ESPN was enough for even Larry Bowa to get a job.

At least Steve Phillips isn't being mentioned for the GM slot.

2005-11-01 13:25:58
69.   das411
Nobody is paying attention to that live chat over on mlb.com right now?
2005-11-01 13:26:43
70.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers ticket sales people haven't called me back this week. This is the week I WANT to talk to a telemarketer!

Sheesh, I'm like Moe the Bartender.

2005-11-01 13:29:00
71.   Dr Love
The McCourts were originally going to stick with DePo until they found out that Theo Epstein would become available. Once they found that out, they needed to fire DePo, but do it in a reasonable way.

Considering that they fired DePo a day before Epstein backed out of signing a new contract, you have no way of knowing that.

2005-11-01 13:29:21
72.   dzzrtRatt
67 Huh. You sound pretty confident in that interpretation. There's some basis for it, I guess--those AL East official quotes to Tim Brown, the fact that McCourt is a Boston guy.

I just don't see Tommy coming to the "We hired Theo" press conference, and I think McCourt is so dependent on Tommy's implicit endorsement of his wonderfulness, he'll give Lasorda veto power.

Plus, I think McCourt is too cheap to hire a guy who will need $1.5 million to come, unless he knows for sure that DePo is going to leave his payroll soon.

Finally, if Theo didn't like Lucchino, why would he want to deal with McCourt, who combines all of Lucchino's arrogance with an aggressive stupidity, a fundamental dishonesty and a propensity to empower unqualified family members?

2005-11-01 13:29:29
73.   blue22
I told my wife that if the Dodgers brought on a guy like Steve Phillips or Jim Bowden, I would be "done" with the Dodgers (as a passion, at least).

She rolled her eyes at me. I don't think she quite gets all of this.

2005-11-01 13:32:05
74.   blue22
71 - That's the conspiracy theory I choose to believe. If Tommy gets Bobby V. in the dugout, and Orel in the Front Office, isn't that enough "Dodger Way" for him? Tommy doesn't have a horse in the GM race.
2005-11-01 13:32:53
75.   dzzrtRatt
73 She probably just didn't believe you. No one would believe me if I said something like that, so I bite my tongue.

I am "done" with the Lakers thanks to the disgusting Kobe show, so I do have a track record of following through, at least that one time. But I was never half as invested in the Lakers as I am in the Dodgers.

2005-11-01 13:36:09
76.   scareduck
29 - 1- the dodger thoughts blog community will rally with pitchforks and fire about mccourts home if he hires bowden

Nah, he'd just take that as a sign that people care. The thing that would really annoy him is the appearance of a blog named Angel Thoughts...

2005-11-01 13:36:42
77.   capdodger
64 Ah. It's just a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuisine_of_Quebec .
2005-11-01 13:37:06
78.   blue22
75 - If the Dodgers:

1. hire the Tommy/Bowden/Valentine crew
2. replace Kim Ng
3. make trades like LaRoche and Navarro for Jorge Posada (or Beltre for Drew as someone mentioned earlier)
4. throw a bunch of money at Konerko, Jacque Jones, and Jeff Weaver

I might have to find something else to do this summer. I like the Brewers. I like Depo's DRays.

2005-11-01 13:37:07
79.   Marty
I think this is Lasorda's team now. There's a lot more signs pointing to that from the last week's goings-on than some behind the scene manuever for Epstein. We'll know it for sure if Bowden comes aboard. I'd be amazed if Epstein was offered the job, and astounded if he took it.
2005-11-01 13:37:08
80.   Humma Kavula
If you hire Bowden, you're dead to me, McCourt. Dead!
2005-11-01 13:37:11
81.   King of the Hobos
64 The link is more of a joke...I think...
2005-11-01 13:38:15
82.   gvette
74--Why would the most sought after GM candidate come into a situation where he couldn't even pick his own manager and front office assistants.

Everyone is entitled to their speculation, but under this theory you would have to attribute a level of competence and savvy to the McCourts far in excess of anything we ever seen.

72--"a propensity to empower unqualified family members"

Isn't that how Frank ended up CEO of his family's company?

2005-11-01 13:41:15
83.   blue22
82 - Why would the most sought after GM candidate come into a situation where he couldn't even pick his own manager and front office assistants.

Don't ruin this by invoking logic and rational thought.

Right now, it appears that I'm choosing between Epstein and Bowden (if Orel is too green, and Gillick is indeed off to Philly). Let me have my delusions, at least until reality hits.

2005-11-01 13:42:48
84.   capdodger
82 Why would the most sought after GM candidate come into a situation where he couldn't even pick his own manager and front office assistants[?]

Look at the flip side of that question: As the most sought after candidate, he could demand to pick his assistants.

2005-11-01 13:45:55
85.   dagwich
73 I am very familiar with that eye roll. Especially when I have a "Ghame Over" shirt in my closet.
2005-11-01 13:46:37
86.   blue22
84 - And coming at it from the Theo perspective, what better jobs would be out there? Farm system, roster flexibility, big market, lots of tradition, recent history of disappointment...seems like a lot of upside to this job.

Unless Theo favors the SD gig, I'm not sure there is a better job opening up in the foreseeable future.

2005-11-01 13:48:32
87.   trainwreck
Last week I said I thought McCourt would only fire DePo if he could hire Theo...god I hope I am right.
By the way McCourt just announced he has not contacted Epstein. Two ways to look at this. One he is trying to hide it because Theo hated all the leaks that came out of Boston so McCourt is trying to keep everything in house. The second is he has not contacted him for whatever stupid reason he has.
2005-11-01 13:49:03
88.   Izzy
I don't think McCourt has enough self-control NOT to hire Epstein. Epstein would pretty much satisfy everyone involved, and in effect "buy" McCourt a year or two of respect in the Los Angeles area. On Epsteins part, there is probably only the Yankees who can offer a history and tradition like the Dodgers can. The only real problem I see is the player budget. But, that may change if McCourt realizes that LA will just not settle for a 70 mil budget and that 100 is more than reasonable. In fact, I still say it should be 120 million, with inflation and the Chavez property values soaring as they have:)
2005-11-01 13:49:30
89.   Vishal
according to jim tracy, zach duke will be a 20-game winner because he competes at a high level and likes to finish what he starts. other major league pitchers aren't like that, apparently.
2005-11-01 13:50:27
90.   jelmendorf
59: "is there anything good to say" about Bowden?

He's not been a good GM, but his badness is being over-stated. Some of his better trades through the years are:

--miscellaneous never-weres for David Wells
--Jeff Shaw for Paul Konerko
--Dave Burba for Sean Casey
--Paul Konerko for Mike Cameron
--Mike Cameron, Brett Tomko & Antonio Perez (the very same) for Ken Griffey Jr. (not Bowden's fault Griffey got hurt)
--Drew Henson for Wily Mo Pena

His only really awful trade (before the ordered 2003 sell-off that can't be laid at his feet) was Paul O'Neill for Roberto Kelly. He had other misses, of course, but most weren't forseeable: Ben Broussard for Russell Branyan, for example, or Juan Encarnacion for the injured Ryan Dempster.

Plus he drafted reasonably well, bringing to the league the likes of Austin Kearns, Adam Dunn, BJ Ryan, Aaron Boone & Ben Broussard. He's not, at least as far as I can tell, a Steve Phillips trade-all-prospects-for-over-the-hill-wash-ups-type.

There's no explaining Vinny Castilla and Cristian Guzman, however, and there's no question the Dodgers can do much, much better.

2005-11-01 13:51:43
91.   Izzy
Oh, and that is an excellent read on Beltre. My sentiments exactly. The main point being, we still don't know how this will all turn out. By the end of next year though, we will be closer.
2005-11-01 13:52:52
92.   Bob Timmermann
My father hired me to work at his store. He even overpaid me.

Of course, I had no say in the matter if I wanted to work there.

2005-11-01 13:53:36
93.   Vishal
griffey makes jd drew look like an iron man.
2005-11-01 13:54:58
94.   oldbear
I think the McCourts would trust a GM with a WS ring to do whatever he wants, bc the media cant touch Epstein with a 10 footpole after what he did with the Red Sox.
2005-11-01 13:55:05
95.   capdodger
88 Is that a vote for McCourt to turn some of the outer parking lots into Condos and mixed-use properties?
2005-11-01 13:56:39
96.   dzzrtRatt
88 But, that may change if McCourt realizes that LA will just not settle for a 70 mil budget and that 100 is more than reasonable.

Long ago, I realized that it would be far more reasonable if I lived on a 100-acre plantation on Maui than where I live now. Only problem is, I can't afford it.

By the same token, McCourt cannot afford a $100 million budget. One little factoid that slipped out during last week's insanity is that DePo's budget was never $100 million. McCourt was lying about that, and DePo loyally repeated the lie. (One reason I'm not missing him as much as I might've otherwise.)

2005-11-01 14:00:51
97.   blue22
So poor Tommy and his Machivellian power play is just a big smokescreen in the "Theo Theory"?
2005-11-01 14:01:06
98.   capdodger
96 Because calling your bosses cheap, lying megalomaniacs is good for job security?
2005-11-01 14:02:57
99.   capdodger
97 Yeah, but I'll bet nobody told Tommy that he was just running interference.
2005-11-01 14:06:08
100.   gvette
92--Everyone not blessed with the right genes can complain about it, but nepotism is rampant in sports, and while annoying, usually has little impact on a team's performance.

The Lakers won with a lot of people named Buss working there, and practically every NFL team has the boss'family stashed somewhere (Mara,Rooney,Jones,etc).

Young Drew may not know jack about marketing, but it has no impact on the standings.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-11-01 14:08:17
101.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Whether or not McCourt has contacted Theo, Gammons, who probably has good sources on this, claimed on SportsCenter that Theo just wants to take the year off from baseball and work with his twin brother, who's a social worker.

If McCourt was smart, he'd do everything in his power to snag Epstein, but he isn't all that smart, and even if he were, Theo may simply have different priorities right now. People also need to remember that McCourt was a big fan of Nomah, and Theo is the man who traded Nomah away, so we shouldn't assume the Boston connection would automatically incline him to make a move to hire Theo.

As long as we can avoid Bowden, I think the world won't end if it's either Gillick or Hunsicker. Ng is in my view the dark horse, not likely, but not impossible, either. Too bad McCourt's such a pathetic simp--if he had a capacity for bold leadership, and he knew how to play this right in the press, appointing Ng could really change the terms of the debate around him and let him draw off the glow of No. 42 to some extent.

It's a shame I'm sure Dan Evans would never willingly come back, because I wouldn't mind him back in charge.

WWSH

2005-11-01 14:08:31
102.   oldbear
99. They still might spin still in some Dodger way bc when Epstein comes on, perhaps that will be the same day that Orel Hershiser is named Farm Director at the same press conference(Terry Collins old job)...

I do believe Hershiser will be named as something, judging from his comments after his interview.

2005-11-01 14:12:57
103.   oldbear
101. I dont think Gammons is in the loop on this. Last week he said it was a done deal that Epstein was returning to Boston.

I guess we'll all find out soon enough.

2005-11-01 14:14:34
104.   blue22
102 - bc when Epstein comes on

I like your optimism :-)

2005-11-01 14:18:53
105.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 87

Just out of curiosity, where'd you see the report?

WWSH

2005-11-01 14:23:12
106.   Dr Love
I dont think Gammons is in the loop on this. Last week he said it was a done deal that Epstein was returning to Boston.

Everyone did. Here's what the Boston Globe said on October 28:

"Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein and president/CEO Larry Lucchino met multiple times yesterday, and by last night there was every indication an agreement will be reached that will keep Epstein as GM for the next three years. A formal announcement could come today."

And on the 31st:

"Epstein and the Red Sox have agreed to an extension of that length, keeping the Brookline native in place as the team's GM through the 2008 season, according to multiple major league sources.

No news conference was scheduled as of last night, but the deal is expected to be announced either today or tomorrow at Fenway Park."

To say that Gammons is out of the loop because Epstein didn't stay in Boston isn't accurate. Theo surprized everyone when he walked away.

2005-11-01 14:24:44
107.   jasonungar05
Beltre hit 35 more homeruns in 2004 than he ever has. That's quiet alot. He only bettered his non 2004 career numbers in one catagory: doubles.

He was better in 2000 than he was in 2005. I am happy that Seattle has to pay for that. Not us.

2005-11-01 14:25:37
108.   trainwreck
105-
ESPNnews said McCourt issued that statement
2005-11-01 14:26:22
109.   FirstMohican
107 - Beltre hit 35 more homeruns in 2004 than he ever has. Dude, he hit 47 or 48 in 04.
2005-11-01 14:27:26
110.   LAT
1. I win the Powerball Lotto;

2. Jessica Alba wants to have a threeway and my wife says yes;

3. I wake up tomorrow and I am 30 yrs younger;

4. Theo becomes the 2006 GM of the LA Dodgers.

The first three are more likely to happen.

2005-11-01 14:28:49
111.   King of the Hobos
Jeter won another gold glove...
2005-11-01 14:29:18
112.   deburns
Ken Rosenthal just reported that Gillick says he is not interested in the LA GM job. I hope that doesn't mean Bowden is really in the mix. Is Hunsicker the cream of what's left, assuming McCourt doesn't have the cojones to hire Ng?
2005-11-01 14:30:01
113.   Vishal
jessica alba is so ridiculously hot.
2005-11-01 14:30:02
114.   King of the Hobos
110 Then you could be a very lucky man if Theo comes here...
2005-11-01 14:30:21
115.   trainwreck
110-
I think your wife would even say yes to Jessica Alba I mean come on she's Jessica Alba.
2005-11-01 14:31:53
116.   King of the Hobos
112 Lasorda better not be in charge of the GM search. Even if he's not as bad as we think, who here wouldn't mind Bowden? Anyone?
2005-11-01 14:33:55
117.   Dr Love
Jessica Alba is overrated.

He only bettered his non 2004 career numbers in one catagory: doubles.

My gut reaction was that Safeco was a better park for 2Bs, but it isn't. Interesting.

And Beltre hit 25 more HR than before. Not 35.

2005-11-01 14:34:55
118.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 112

Oh, please, let it NOT be Bowden, although the previous poster who laid out Bowden's deals made him look less heinous.

I think Hunsicker would then be the most likely possibility if Gillick really is out of it.

Also, I'm sorry to say that considering our disarray, Bowden may prefer DC, a franchise which is about to get a new stadium in a big market that has the potential of becoming a first-rank franchise. The Blue looks to be going downhill right now. In the end, Ng may be the last candidate left standing, assuming she really wants the job. Considering how she's weathered previous regime changes, and the fact that she herself probably knows that she's not going to get as many opportunities to be GM, she may end up getting the job by default.

WWSH

2005-11-01 14:35:32
119.   King of the Hobos
The Dodgers have one winner of a Topps Players of the Year Award, handed out to the best player in each of the 16 affiliated leagues. Was it Guzman/Billingsley? Larocke? Elbert? Nope...

Congratulations to 1B/3B prospect, Eduardo Perez, for winning the GCL award...

2005-11-01 14:36:49
120.   LAT
117. I hope you meant to type "Beltre is over rated."
2005-11-01 14:37:16
121.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 118

Of course, the implication of the thought I had at the end of that post is that Hunsicker may also pass on the Dodger job, since our owner looks so inept.

WWSH

2005-11-01 14:37:35
122.   blue22
118 - Don't forget that Bowden called out his players when they started to fade this year. Think of Depo what you will (recluse, nerd, savior, over-his-head), he was one classy dude.
2005-11-01 14:39:00
123.   molokai
107
He actually hit 25 more home runs in 2004 then his previous high.
2005-11-01 14:39:59
124.   Bob Timmermann
To me, Bowden's big drawback is his personality. He's incredibly arrogant and also seems to have a complete lack of accountability for anything he's done. He has said incredibly dumb things to the media (such as his 9/11 and players strike comparison).

I tend to believe that he isn't a serious candidate. But I bet Dennis Gilbert is pushing hard for the job.

2005-11-01 14:40:06
125.   Xeifrank
Jessica Alba has a VORP of 56,203,502 and a VIB+ of 503. vr, Xei
2005-11-01 14:41:42
126.   Xeifrank
Everyone passing up on the Dodger GM job, hmmmm.... what a big shocker there (NOT!).
Go Jon!!!! Very excited to hear his interview, just worried that he will be swimming with one of the sharks (Mason). Ireland is cool though.
vr, Xei
2005-11-01 14:42:05
127.   molokai
Jessica Alba is overrated???
Your standards must be high indeed.
2005-11-01 14:43:04
128.   Bob Timmermann
Ireland would be a lot tougher on Jon than Mason. Ireland has been feeding out of the Angels trough for a while.
2005-11-01 14:43:24
129.   Dr Love
Bowden loves the toolsy players. He's essentially a 180 from DePo. Early in his career he seemed like a good GM, but not the latter part of his career. When the smoke cleared and the mirrors shattered and the Nationals started playing back down to their talent level and their lead in the NL East became a fight to stay out of the basement, he honestly believed that the Nats were good enough to win the division with the team they had, and thus didn't make any major moves in August. In fact he had a closed door meeting with the players and berated them for not playing like they had in the first half of the season. All the while he was totally oblivious to the fact that the Nationals had the worst offense in the NL.

He's also said that division should be tiered by revenue.

2005-11-01 14:43:43
130.   molokai
Ireland does have the largest forehead since the woman from Lost In Space to take up space on a TV screen. Good things TV's are bigger now.
2005-11-01 14:45:11
131.   Javier Gutierrez
So who are the rest of the GM candidates? Hunsicker and Epstein and that is it?
2005-11-01 14:45:19
132.   blue22
126 - I side with Ireland on a lot of things local (Kobe in Kobe v. Shaq), but yesterday he had nothing but effusive praise for Bowden. He is now off the list!

Of course that was just because Bowden is a big time national guy that would come on their little po-dunk (?) local show.

2005-11-01 14:45:40
133.   molokai
He did draft Ryan Zimmerman who was not as highly touted as Gordon and Braun.
2005-11-01 14:45:49
134.   Xeifrank
128. Ireland is just a homer for his radio station that covers the Angels. He atleast has some class. Perhaps he isn't the most knowledgeable baseball person but he won't make any snide(sp?/Bob) remarks about Depo's computer. Mason on the otherhand is more of a blowhard. vr, Xei
2005-11-01 14:47:27
135.   gvette
124-- Wow, Dennis "Go-Go" Gilbert is an interesting candidate; big time friend of the local media, baseball insider from the old school, and possessor of a brand new WS ring.

Didn't he get a courtesy interview from McCourt last time?

2005-11-01 14:47:44
136.   blue22
131 -
GM candidates mentioned in regard to the Dodger job:

Bowden
Hunsicker
Gillick
Hershiser
Epstein
Ng
Valentine

2005-11-01 14:47:49
137.   Xeifrank
129. Divisions tiered by revenue? That is interesting. Wonder what the divisions would look like. Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and Angels all in the same division?
vr, Xei
2005-11-01 14:48:31
138.   King of the Hobos
131 Gillick is the only announced one, and he's saying he doesn't want to come here. The rest are confidential, McCourt doesn't want to announce them
2005-11-01 14:49:58
139.   SMY
Let me preface this by saying that of all the rumored names, I really hope it's Theo.

But it's really really unlikely, and the chief reason is that Theo and DePo are basically the same. They're both young, Ivy league, have roughly the same amount of experience, and are statistically inclined. Neither of them are self-promoters and prefer to work in the background -- Theo won't be out there schmoozing the media. Both have traded or let go of popular players and both have made some questionable long-term committments to others. For all the complaining about DePo's "communication problems", there's been some about Theo as well.

The chief differences between Theo and DePo are:

- Theo inherited better players
- Theo had a hell of a lot more money to spend
- Theo lucked out on David Ortiz becoming DAVID ORTIZ
- Theo wasn't a character in Moneyball

You think Theo's WS ring would protect him from the LA fans and media if he tried to bring in Mark Bellhorn to replace Alex Cora? Or Terry Francona to be manager? Or if he brought in guys like Mike Remlinger to fill out the bullpen? It'd be the exact same thing all over again.

If it really was a master plan to get Theo, then McCourt is even dumber than I thought, because throwing your entire organization into chaos to get a guy who isn't really any better or different than the guy you already have is not the most sound plan.

Sorry for the long post. And I agree with all the pro-Jessica Alba posts.

2005-11-01 14:50:46
140.   Bob Timmermann
The late Tom Mee of ESPN used to have the largest forehead.
2005-11-01 14:51:20
141.   trainwreck
136-
Do not forget Roger Dorn. He got the Indians to the Series.
2005-11-01 14:55:02
142.   jasonungar05
my bad 25. which is still 2 more than his non 2004 career high

4-2 does not equal 3 LOL

2005-11-01 14:56:08
143.   King of the Hobos
I just noticed, Mr Heart&Soul of the Angels didn't win the gold glove. Teixeira did instead
2005-11-01 14:56:53
144.   Bob Timmermann
142

Don't worry. With the Dodgers now, it's not about the numbers. It's about heart. It's about tools.
4-2 can equal 3 if you have heart and soul.

2005-11-01 14:57:39
145.   natepurcell
elisha cuthbert> jessica alba

dont believe me?
http://tinyurl.com/dgrwp

now gillick is off the list, we must get hunsicker before he is snatched up. he is a really good GM and that would mean no bowden.

mccourt should let DT be GM instead of bowden. i am pretty sure we could do a better job than him.

2005-11-01 14:57:44
146.   blue22
140 - The late Tom Mees.

Sorry Bob, it's not often, but you missed one.

2005-11-01 14:59:18
147.   Humma Kavula
[145] I like it. Jon tallies the votes; Bob's vote counts double, just because.
2005-11-01 14:59:33
148.   Marty
June Lockhart has a large forehead?
2005-11-01 14:59:45
149.   Bob Timmermann
Tom Mee didn't look right when I typed it. I think I've known people who were Mee and Mees.
2005-11-01 15:00:11
150.   molokai
140
Who would win between Mee and Ireland?
Those heads always remind me of a twilight zone episode I saw as a kid that scared the crap out of me.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-11-01 15:00:20
151.   Sushirabbit
Two things.

The Brewers organization is pretty dang good.... like light years ahead of the Pirates (hahahahahah, that's me thinking about Tracy).

If you think learning all this "stathead" stuff about baseball opened your mind, you should try reading McClellan Committe transcripts and studying McCarthy and then a few years later have access to Venona Documents.

I always hear Steve Miller's My Friend Lyrics... when people say "McCarthyism"

2005-11-01 15:02:01
152.   trainwreck
What did Hunsicker do that everyone likes? I forgot when he left but if he signed Petitte and Clemens, why did he leave?
2005-11-01 15:02:33
153.   Bob Timmermann
So Frank McCourt is a Communist agent?
2005-11-01 15:03:06
154.   fanerman
139 - I think people here think Theo might have a chance exactly because he's exactly like DePo but cooler and with a ring. He has a little more credibility and he's a little better for PR but he could probably still field a (cash cow of a) winner for $60-70 million. He would probably get more cloud cover than DePo ever did, and he's "experienced."

I don't think it's that stupid to try to replace DePo with Theo. DePo did all the "dirty work" already. DePo is synonymous with "The Trade" and Shawn Green and Adrian Beltre. Theo, while similar to DePo in philosophy, doesn't have that tag. For the McCourts, shedding the "bad" image of DePo for Theo may be a worthwhile investment. It keeps the team (supposedly) in good hands and appeases local MSM. It could be the McCourts's version of "repainting the walls." ie, http://cmdr-scott.blogspot.com/

Of course you have to make that intellectual leap that the McCourts are capable of thinking this out.

2005-11-01 15:04:37
155.   Marty
153 He's not smart enough to be an agent. Perhaps a Communist stooge
2005-11-01 15:04:54
156.   molokai
Jon, your Beltre write up was excellent as usual. I hope we do rue the day because he was my favorite player even when he was average and I'd love to see him become a great player even if not as a Dodger.
2005-11-01 15:05:33
157.   blue22
152 - He left over the proverbial owner-GM power struggle.

I'm not sure what his creds are, other than being the GM of the team close to Andy Pettite and Roger Clemens' hometowns.

He did have the foresight to let both Dotel and Wagner go, and give the ball to Lidge (which seemed like the right decision until ever so recently).

2005-11-01 15:06:47
158.   Sushirabbit
Supposedly people here have high regard for "facts"... not that I care if you're enamored with Murrow's version.
2005-11-01 15:09:53
159.   blue22
Of course you have to make that intellectual leap that the McCourts are capable of thinking this out.

This is what snaps me back into reality. It seems that they aren't capable of making all of these moving pieces work together, but unbeknownst to them all.

Maybe they're big fans of Survivor? Or maybe he just got lucky and Theo could fall into his lap. Whatever, just make the call!

(hahahahahah, that's me thinking about Tracy).

Funny, I had almost forgotten about Tracy. Seems like he was fired 5 offseasons ago.

2005-11-01 15:10:16
160.   SMY
154 -- You're right about DePo being associated with all the bad things. But while Theo might have a little bit of a honeymoon because of the ring, I think everyone would turn on him when he ran the team the same way DePo would have. And I don't think Plaschke would be appeased by the ring at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if Theo did join the Dodgers, I just think it's an extreme long shot. Although if I were him, I'd demand $2 million/year, for Lasorda to have an office completely off the Dodger Stadium property, and the right to give Plaschke a wedgie whenever it was necessary.

2005-11-01 15:10:19
161.   Jon Weisman
T minus 30 minutes ...

Not to overindulge the Theo pipe dream, since I can't imagine why he'd want to work for the McCourts, but is he considered a "good communicator" - the "heart and soul" equivalent for GMs?

2005-11-01 15:11:00
162.   Bob Timmermann
When did anyone else ever bring up Senator Joseph McCarthy prior to 151?

Marty and I were just making jokes after we saw the topic.

I think the vast majority of us here on DT don't really care too much one way or the other.

Now if the Venona Files mention Jim Bowden, we'll be all over it!

2005-11-01 15:12:16
163.   trainwreck
157-
Yeah I never really understoof why people held Hunsicker in such high regard.
2005-11-01 15:13:36
164.   fanerman
160 - Winning forgives everything. The Dodgers will be much better in 2006, and MSM will give out nicer grades because whoever's GM will be compared to DePo.
2005-11-01 15:13:44
165.   molokai
He gave out a very bad contract to Bagwell that is killing the Astro's right now. That is about the only really bad thing he's done that I can remember without hitting the transaction wire and pouring over them.
It was a bad contract the day Bagwell signed it and has nothing to do with the fact that he is currently useless but how do you cut loose the hometown hero?
2005-11-01 15:13:51
166.   Jon Weisman
Test: What do Hunsicker and Billy Beane have in common?
2005-11-01 15:14:57
167.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Of course you have to make that intellectual leap that the McCourts are capable of thinking this out.

Well, that's our main problem, isn't it? We just have to hope the McCourts somehow stumble into the right cours of action.

We must put our faith in the Big Dodger in the Sky to guide our empty-headed owner to the promised land.

WWSH

2005-11-01 15:15:00
168.   molokai
161
Don't be nervous, just remember your much smarter then they are and you don't have to pander to their ignorant audience like they do.
2005-11-01 15:15:10
169.   Kayaker7
I just read Part II of Depo's firing by, Jeff Angus of Management by Baseball, linked to in the update. Amazing insight that perfectly explains the McCourts. It is like Copernicus realizing that the planets revolving around the sun makes all the calculations elegantly simple. Basically, the McCourts, with their background in real estate, believe that image is the product, when in fact, winning is.
2005-11-01 15:15:35
170.   King of the Hobos
166 They have at least one 'e' and an 'n' in their last name?
2005-11-01 15:15:52
171.   trainwreck
166-
They fleeced Baird in KC.
2005-11-01 15:16:28
172.   Marty
My goodness. I just looked at Ireland's picture. That really is a massive forehead.
2005-11-01 15:16:32
173.   molokai
The simple answer is that they were both GM's with successfull francises that never won a playoff series?
2005-11-01 15:18:03
174.   molokai
172
Now Jon is going to spend the whole interview staring at Ireland's head and not be able to put together a coherent thought.
2005-11-01 15:18:12
175.   Bob Timmermann
Neither man has been in Howard Fox's kitchen.
2005-11-01 15:18:16
176.   Marty
166 They've never been in my kitchen? (someone had to say it)
2005-11-01 15:18:47
177.   Bob Timmermann
174
It's radio, so it's hard to stare at anyone.
2005-11-01 15:19:08
178.   Marty
4 seconds. Gah!
2005-11-01 15:19:52
179.   molokai
Yeah, I got confused with TV where they always show the radio interview being done at the station.
2005-11-01 15:19:59
180.   blue22
173 - Hunsicker took the 'stros to within a game of the WS in '04.

They did take part in the Beltran trade of that year too.

2005-11-01 15:20:15
181.   Michael G
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Tommy's appearance on TV last night after Monday night football. It sounded very much like Valentine and Orel are in. He said something like "...the fans would love Valentine as the manager of the Dodgers", and "...Orel would be great for the Dodgers in any position - manager or front office". But then he went on to say (smugly) that Frank makes the decisions. With that being said, my hopes for getting Theo in here have diminished.
2005-11-01 15:20:25
182.   gvette
172--Kind of reminiscent of some of those aliens on the original Star Trek (not the ones that Kirk would date);

141--If Roger Dorn is a candidate, why not old Pop Fisher who got the New York Knights to the World Series?

2005-11-01 15:21:40
183.   Jon Weisman
173 is correct. Except Beane gets ripped for it.

175/176 - also correct, though I believe Beane has been treated fairly on this score.

2005-11-01 15:22:07
184.   trainwreck
181-
He should have said I assume the fans would like these decisions because I like them. Sadly though he is probably right.
2005-11-01 15:22:28
185.   molokai
I saw the interview and had to turn it off. Watching a smug Lasorda is just to much for me right now.
2005-11-01 15:22:48
186.   Jon Weisman
Where is Howard? He hasn't checked in in some time, I don't think.
2005-11-01 15:23:29
187.   trainwreck
So that means Hunsicker left before Petitte and Clemens came and they got Beltran and promoted Lidge?
2005-11-01 15:24:07
188.   molokai
I still dislike Jeremy Giambi to this day.
2005-11-01 15:25:10
189.   trainwreck
188-
Ughh that name just reminds me of one play that needs not to be spoken.
2005-11-01 15:26:23
190.   Marty
186 Nor has Jim Hitchcock. Last post of his was a month or so ago and it was about having computer trouble
2005-11-01 15:27:07
191.   Bob Timmermann
Can you listen in to 710 through their website? Or am I just not seeing the right link?
2005-11-01 15:27:20
192.   molokai
I remember Howard being the biggest advocate on DT last fall that Beltre had a career year and that we were lucky that Seattle took him off our hands.
2005-11-01 15:29:35
193.   Jon Weisman
192 - I remember, too.
2005-11-01 15:30:16
194.   oldbear
Fox Sports reports Pat Gillick to the Phils.

If Lasorda is running the Dodgers like some claim here, wouldnt his guy at least get an interview?

2005-11-01 15:30:55
195.   ryu
191 - No Internet streaming of AM 710, to my knowledge.
2005-11-01 15:31:17
196.   Bob Timmermann
So I should take my headphones out of my computer because I can't listen to anything right?
2005-11-01 15:32:25
197.   natepurcell
What did Hunsicker do that everyone likes? I forgot when he left but if he signed Petitte and Clemens, why did he leave?

hes good at player development. lidge, berkman, ensberg, oswalt, etc, are all his players that he developed in his tenure.

he has made some good FA signings, pettite, clemens and kent come to mind. Hes not afraid of the midseason deal (ie beltran) where he gave away spare parts and was one game short of going to the WS.

he did give bagwell a really long contract, that seems to be his only fault. What i heard was that he was hesitant to give that contract to bagwell but was forced too by the owner. im not sure if thats right though.

2005-11-01 15:32:32
198.   molokai
Basketball season starts tonight. Did anyone notice that my Clippers actually got more love then the Lakers from the Times today?

Sorry for all the posts today, I think I'm suffering from no Dodger GM syndrome where I can't do anything worthwhile until I know if the Dodgers are going to get a GM I can get behind.

2005-11-01 15:32:59
199.   Vishal
the weird thing about elisha cuthbert is that i spotted her in like, 1998 or 1999 hosting this tv show called "popular mechanics for kids", and she looked like she was 13 or 14 (apparently she was 16 or 17 at the time, and they had dressed her to look younger). i'm no pedophile but i remembered thinking she was a cute kid and that she was gonna be attractive someday. then a year or two later i saw her on "24" and she was suddenly all grown up. i could hardly believe it was the same girl.

jessica alba is still hotter, though. but that's like picking between pujols and a-rod.

2005-11-01 15:33:00
200.   King of the Hobos
194 Supposedly he was interviewed last night
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-11-01 15:33:49
201.   Vishal
[198] i hear you; i have a paper to write that is getting nowhere fast.
2005-11-01 15:34:11
202.   SMY
Since there's no stream for 710, hopefully someone will be nice enough to do a sort of play-by-play, or at least a summary.
2005-11-01 15:35:12
203.   Bob Timmermann
Jon will have my moral support as I will be off for my late lunch/early dinner at work.

It's more of a linner.

2005-11-01 15:37:00
204.   natepurcell
have you seen the girl next door vishal?

oh wow, she is like my dream girl in that movie.

re bball season starting

im still a laker fan, so im excitied the season opener tomorrow is on espn. i think the lakeshow will surprise people this year. I think kobe, kwame and odom will work well together.

2005-11-01 15:42:02
205.   blue22
let's see if Phil can convince this roster to play defense. If so, they could make a little noise in a pretty weak division. The West still looks tough. Win the division and get the 3 seed.

Elisha had a great "morning after" scene in Old School. "Girl Next Door" is just a great movie, and she is really good in it.

2005-11-01 15:42:35
206.   Jon Weisman
Interview postponed to 5 p.m. because of discussion of Romanowski's book.
2005-11-01 15:43:23
207.   Bob Timmermann
Jon gets bumped for a guy who sent his stool out for analysis.
2005-11-01 15:44:11
208.   trainwreck
197-
But Jon said Hunsicker never had a playoff series winning team so he was not the one to get Petitte, Clemes, and Beltran. Lidge was a starter that got wrecked due to injury and they just moved him to relief to try to salvage him and Oswalt was an unheralded pick that ended up just being a really lucky pick, kind of like Harden with the A's I would give more credit to the head of scouting or the scout that said pick Oswalt. Hunsicker allowed his young guys to play which I like but I mean I never thouht he did a lot of great things.
2005-11-01 15:45:06
209.   fawnkyj
197-
Actually he did not want to give Bagwell that contract but the owner wanted to. That is one of the reasons why he left.
2005-11-01 15:45:31
210.   fawnkyj
Oh and Elisha looks smoking in Old School too.
2005-11-01 15:45:49
211.   trainwreck
206-
Romanowski's book... aren't they two weeks late discussing that topic. By the way Romanowski shares the same birthday as me.
2005-11-01 15:46:26
212.   blue22
208 - Hunsicker left after the '04 season. He signed Pettite and Clemens, traded for Beltran, and almost beat the Cards after getting past the Braves.
2005-11-01 15:48:38
213.   Jon Weisman
Dang - I messed up. I guess Houston won a series under Hunsicker last year.
2005-11-01 15:48:57
214.   blue22
Romanowski sickens me. Could a more desperate attempt for redemption to try and score a cush TV gig and sell some books be anymore transparent?
2005-11-01 15:49:44
215.   blue22
213 - But neither have been in Marty's kitchen. Unless that's where the Beltran deal went down.
2005-11-01 15:50:29
216.   natepurcell
hunsicker resigned after the 2004 season.
2005-11-01 15:51:28
217.   LAT
How is Jon posting here when he is supposed to be on the radio? Why are Mason and whoever taking random phone calls instead of interviewing Jon? Why do I have no idea what is going on?
2005-11-01 15:51:45
218.   natepurcell
hunsicker also traded for RJ where RJ was went 10-2 and got the astros to the postseason.

although he did give up some good talent in that trade, it helped them greatly.

2005-11-01 15:52:08
219.   jasonungar05
Yeah she is hot. I vote for her over Alba because I prefer blondes

I was also with Howard. I was willing to bet anyone here 100 bucks that Kent would have more rbi than beltre in 05 and most of you were smart enough not to take that bet.

Didn't I see in NL Champ series that the Astros have won more games than all team in the last 10 years besides the Cardinals and Yankees and Braves?

2005-11-01 15:54:08
220.   blue22
217 meet 206
2005-11-01 15:54:30
221.   natepurcell
we should do an astro combo.

hire hunsicker and larry dierker!

2005-11-01 15:57:49
222.   trainwreck
221-
Yeah I like the idea of Dierker. I do not see it happening though.
2005-11-01 15:58:31
223.   natepurcell
since 1995 when hunsicker took over, astros have made the post season 6 times on a budget that will probably be similar to what the mccourt dodgers payroll will be.
2005-11-01 15:58:39
224.   Xeifrank
Looks like Jon will be going mano y mano with Steve Mason as John Ireland is in Denver getting ready to cover the Laker game tomorrow night. 5pm is a good time for me, as I should be on my 15-20 minute commute home at that time. vr, Xei
2005-11-01 15:59:53
225.   LAT
220. Thanks Blue-I missed that one. Now I can go take a leak. (TMI)
2005-11-01 16:01:22
226.   trainwreck
I will be in class when Jon is on... lame. ESPN just announced Pat Gillick will be named GM of Phillies tomorrow.
2005-11-01 16:03:23
227.   natepurcell
ESPN just announced Pat Gillick will be named GM of Phillies tomorrow.

mccourt needs to get on the phone with hunsicker ASAP because he goes too. when the dust settles, i dont want to be left with only bowden available. please mccourt, do something right.

2005-11-01 16:03:40
228.   blue22
226 - I guess Gillick liked the thought of Ruben Amaro bringing him coffee and a danish, rather than Hershiser.

We really need Theo.

2005-11-01 16:03:53
229.   ryu
A 5pm class ... ouch.
2005-11-01 16:04:14
230.   natepurcell
because= before
2005-11-01 16:06:20
231.   King of the Hobos
229 I have a 5 pm class and I'm in high school. I also have it because I'm in high school. I can listen tonight though, no class on Tuesdays
2005-11-01 16:07:25
232.   molokai
Hunsicker will go next to Tampa Bay unless he holds them off hoping to get the Boston gig. Starting to get the feeling that we are only going to get leftovers. If it is spaghetti I'd be happy but I'm thinking were in line for some meatloaf.
2005-11-01 16:09:15
233.   trainwreck
229-
5-750 tuesdays and thursdays
2005-11-01 16:10:35
234.   King of the Hobos
If Hunsicker goes to Tampa Bay, I don't care, I'll accept Evans if I have to. But I'm not under any circumstances accepting Bowden. Hopefully we end up with someone decent...
2005-11-01 16:12:16
235.   natepurcell
way to crush my dreams molokai!
2005-11-01 16:13:50
236.   molokai
Nate I'm headed to Arizona on Thursday to catch some AFL baseball. I going to a conference where people like Jim Callis(BA), Joe Sheehan(BP), Erickson(Rotowire), and Rob Neyer(ESPN) will be speaking. Should be able to see around 3 Desert Dogs games. Any prospects in particular you want me to find out the skinny on?
2005-11-01 16:15:10
237.   trainwreck
Where did you hear speculation about Hunsicker to Tampa Bay? What does it say when people would rather GM for the DRays than us?
2005-11-01 16:15:27
238.   ryu
233 - I never heard of a high school class that begins at 5pm. What class is it?
2005-11-01 16:16:37
239.   trainwreck
238-
I am in college.
2005-11-01 16:17:19
240.   natepurcell
that would be really fun. well focus on the usual dodger ones- loney, laroche and kemp.

also, some other ones from other orgs:
Jarrod Saltalamacchia C Braves
Daric Barton 1b/dh/lf A's
*Andre Ethier OF A's

*from reports ive read of ethier, i get the picture that he is a lot similar to kemp in his ability and play.

2005-11-01 16:17:42
241.   King of the Hobos
238 Assuming you mean 231, it's not a high school class. It's at the local junior college, but I get high school credit. Essentially, my high school ran out of math classes, so I'm taking one here
2005-11-01 16:18:04
242.   natepurcell
re 239

i think hes asking hobos, since he has a 5pm class and still in HS.

2005-11-01 16:19:17
243.   trainwreck
Either is like Kemp but more developed. He will reach the majors sooner, but yeah he is a guy that came out of nowhere to have a huge season and he has not stopped hitting. Barton is going to be a flat out hitting machine.
2005-11-01 16:20:10
244.   Vishal
[204] i haven't seen it but i saw some clips via aaron gleeman, and i probably will get around to it sometime :)

i'm hunsicker-neutral. i wouldn't mind him i suppose.

2005-11-01 16:21:43
245.   Vishal
i currently have a 6:45-9:30PM history class every wednesday. that one starts getting long at about 8:45 every time.
2005-11-01 16:22:40
246.   Xeifrank
Welcome to Musical GM Chairs... (music playing, and then stopping), what's that McCourt doesn't have a chair to sit on / GM to hire. Oh well, atleast we have Tommy. I'm sure he can sacrifice a few pasta dinners and noon siestas to trade away all of our prospects. vr, Xei
2005-11-01 16:24:05
247.   dzzrtRatt
I don't know who would want to work for the Frank/Jamie/Tommy show. I realize it's the Dodgers and all, but I think the GM brotherhood didn't react the way F/J/T thought they would to DePo's firing. Instead of being delighted at the whippersnapper's comeuppance, they thought the guy got shafted by the stubborn ghost of championships past.

My guess is, despite Tommy's statement that he's not qualified, Orel will get the GM job. The manager is up in the air to me. I think Bobby V. won't end up leaving Japan for this Dodger franchise at this time. A lot of people who "love" Tommy Lasorda wouldn't want him in their management hierarcy.

It's almost funny that Gillick would give McCourt and Tommy the high hat after the way they oozed and leaked all over him since Saturday. "Uh yeah, thanks for the nice words and all, but, uh...gotta go!"

2005-11-01 16:25:39
248.   Uncle Miltie
239- what college do you go to

nate- the Lakers are going to be amazing. I can't wait to see Kobe Bryant play unselfishly, Odom to turn into Scottie Pippen and Kwame Brown become the next Jermaine O'Neal. Don't even get me started on Smush "Bob Cousy" Parker...

2005-11-01 16:27:07
249.   molokai
Tampa Bay is under new ownership and I'm expecting good things to happen for them from this point forward.
Yes, I would say firing your GM two years into his 5 year deal is sending up red flags for the quality GM's who are out there. If I'm a prospective GM I will want a better explanation then McCourt gave the public and it is possible they won't like the real explanation any better then the public one. Sure seemed like Gillick couldn't take the Phillie job fast enough after being interviewed last night if that is correct.
2005-11-01 16:28:17
250.   ryu
248 - C'mon, the Lakers aren't even the best team in their own city.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-11-01 16:28:29
251.   dzzrtRatt
237 What does it say when people would rather GM for the DRays than us?

I'd take that job. Their prospects are more major-league ready than the Dodgers', and they are stacked! Expectations for that franchise will always be low. They'd throw a parade for you if you finished .500. And then there's the drama entailed in possibly knocking off the Yanks and Sox, which would make you a legend--and that goal doesn't seem completely unattainable (within 2-3 years, not in '06). Plus, their new owner hasn't yet proven himself as a twit like McCourt has. He might even be a good guy.

2005-11-01 16:29:25
252.   trainwreck
248-
UCSB and you forgot Chris Mullin Mihm and Devean the Iceman George.
2005-11-01 16:29:48
253.   blue22
248 - amazing is a stretch. Luckily Sacramento is the only "good" team in the Pacific, with Amare potentially out for the year. The Clippers figure to improve. That's about it for the division.

Beat the Kings and get a 3 seed, otherwise they sneak in with a 6,7, or 8 seed.

Of course, you still have to deal with Dallas, Houston, and of course, San Antonio.

2005-11-01 16:30:53
254.   natepurcell
re 148

bynum has been very impressive too. he just turned 18 last thursday! with jackson and kareem helping him grow as a player and individual, i thnk hes going to be very good in his prime years barring injury.

2005-11-01 16:30:56
255.   dzzrtRatt
248 I can't wait to see Kobe Bryant play unselfishly

Visions of a long, white beard come to mind, if that's what you're waiting for.

2005-11-01 16:31:52
256.   blue22
http://tinyurl.com/ctp2d

and drop down to view predictions for NBA Champs.

2005-11-01 16:33:13
257.   trainwreck
253-
You are forgetting the Warriors they are a different team with Baron Davis. They have a lot of depth with Peitrus, Fisher, Diogu, Taft, Biedrins, etc. Jason Richardson will take it to a new level this year.
I am off to class good luck Jon, show em who's boss.
2005-11-01 16:34:03
258.   Uncle Miltie
252- that would be Chris "Walton" Mihn and who can forget defensive force Brian "Rodman" Cook
2005-11-01 16:35:59
259.   natepurcell
if anyone follows nfl prospects, the 2nd best rb in the nation is playing on espn 2 right now, Deangelo Williams of memphis. a lot of people compare him to faulk but with more power. he averages 187 rush yds per game.
2005-11-01 16:36:24
260.   Uncle Miltie
*Mihm
2005-11-01 16:36:47
261.   blue22
257 - So you're saying they could crack 30 wins this year? That would be something...
2005-11-01 16:39:52
262.   molokai
If Baron stays healthy the Warriors will be a force but isn't that like saying if JD Drew stays healthy the Dodgers will be a force?
2005-11-01 16:40:35
263.   dzzrtRatt
for those of us not near radio, you'd win points in heaven if anyone could liveblog Jon's radio-dodger-thoughts.
2005-11-01 16:42:23
264.   blue22
262 - Does Baron still have chunk-butt? If so, his knees won't last, and he won't stay healthy.
2005-11-01 16:42:53
265.   Steelyeri
I snuck out of class shortly to listen to Jon in my car. I instead heard calls about Bill Romanowski. I thought I had forgotten the time of the interview. Now, after class, I see that the interview was postponed. Thanks alot ESPN radio. Also, Mathew Berry(spelling?) gets on my nerves with his Angel homerism other times he's been on.
2005-11-01 16:44:58
266.   Steelyeri
262- I think weight issues mostly affect NBA big men, not poing guards. Not that I've seen any evidence that Davis' weight is an issue.
2005-11-01 16:45:55
267.   blue22
265 - Matthew Perry is the "talented Mr Roto". For someone who should be extremely analytically focused (fantasy nerd), he is a massive Angel apologist. He couldn't come up with enough reasons as to why Orlando Cabrera was worth his contract this year.
2005-11-01 16:47:34
268.   Michael G
248 and 250 - Barring injuries, both of you may be right. That would be great if LA owned two of the eight western playoff spots.
2005-11-01 16:49:36
269.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
Points in heaven? I could really use some of those.

OK, if the kids allow I will attempt it. I'll spit it out as fast as I can, so please attribute any typos to flying fingers...

2005-11-01 16:53:36
270.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
710 hasn't even mentioned Jon yet. Starting to wonder if it's still gonna happen.
2005-11-01 16:54:53
271.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
One surprising comment from Ireland, tho: He said DePo didn't make a single move that he wouldn't have made also. I haven't heard many in the media defend him nearly that strongly.
2005-11-01 16:55:04
272.   underdog
Hm, Er, sorry if someone posted this earlier, I couldn't find it, but just saw news online that Bobby Valentine is now one of three finalists for the Devil Rays job!

Go Bobby V, I hope you get that one.

So we don't have to even worry about the possibility he'll end up in LA.

2005-11-01 16:55:24
273.   King of the Hobos
I'll listen as well, in case BTT types too fast and has a heart attack or something
2005-11-01 16:57:16
274.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 272

That's odd, since the LAT store on Bobby made it sound like it'd be really difficult to get him to come back to manage in the US.

WWSH

2005-11-01 16:57:46
275.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 274

Ooops, store should by story.

WWSH

2005-11-01 16:59:13
276.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
273 My heart was fine until the Depo news.
2005-11-01 17:04:41
277.   underdog
Here's the story on Bobby V:
http://tinyurl.com/cytep

Random thought: I wonder if the Dodgers will have a GM and manager before spring training? Ahem...

2005-11-01 17:05:31
278.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
OK, Jon's on. Liveblog to follow
2005-11-01 17:05:34
279.   LAT
Its Jon time!
2005-11-01 17:05:52
280.   Bob Timmermann
Haven't the Clippers gone whole offseasons without a coach before?
2005-11-01 17:05:53
281.   King of the Hobos
The blogosphere has been introduced. We're the most important blog in the blogosphere
2005-11-01 17:06:46
282.   Bob Timmermann
281

All hail our ascendancy to the throne!

2005-11-01 17:07:15
283.   bigcpa
Jon just dropped an F-bomb about McCourt... he's losing it.
2005-11-01 17:08:19
284.   dzzrtRatt
There's a GM's meeting next week! Who's going for the Dodgers? Tommy? Jamie?

If Jamie goes and enjoys herself, the supposedly improbable, impossible, untenable Jamie for GM scenario looms as a little more possible.

Another finalist for the TB job is a guy I wish the Dodgers would consider--Joe Maddon. But then, do I want the Angels to lose him? Oh, Plaschke, tell me true? Where do my loyalties go?

2005-11-01 17:08:45
285.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
Perry asks him about Jon's Dodger Way column. Jon reminds that 2004 wasn't the first bad move in Dodger history, that they were once called the Bums.

Jon says he didn't agree with the firing of DePo. Even if you're not a supporter of DePo, how can you justify firing him AND Tracy, he says.

2005-11-01 17:09:41
286.   dzzrtRatt
283 Really?

Jon will be banished to satellite radio.

ESPN 710 will have to go shut down after the FCC fine bankrupts them.

2005-11-01 17:09:57
287.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
Asked who he thinks the next GM will be, he says Bowden makes him nervous because of arrogance, which reminds him of Malone. He says Bowden's record isn't as good as Bowden says it is.

Also mentions that Bowden was ripping Evans while he was here.

2005-11-01 17:11:21
288.   natepurcell
talk about jacksonville dynasty!
2005-11-01 17:11:28
289.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
Mason says we need better communication from the front office and a Public Face, which Bowden would give them.

Jon says that people respond to winning, and adds that DePo wasn't the mystery he was made out to be. He says it was more of people not buying into what DePo was doing.

2005-11-01 17:12:32
290.   King of the Hobos
Is it just me or do these guys think Jon has some inside information?
2005-11-01 17:12:53
291.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
Perry says the new GM will get more money to play with with Green et al gone. Asks Jon if he thinks they'll spend the money.

Jon says it's a good question and unknowable. Mentions the names of Dunn, Matsui, Giles. Says he can't think of one name that is a lock to come here. With no GM and a mystery budget, how can we know?

2005-11-01 17:13:06
292.   King of the Hobos
Adam Laroche should be at 3B now...
2005-11-01 17:13:25
293.   bigcpa
They're expecting to get scoops out of Jon like he's Gammons or something.
2005-11-01 17:14:15
294.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
Mason mentions some of the youngsters need to play, mentioning LaRoche and others.

Jon agrees, mentioning that the farm system lately has been mostly hype with guys like Thurston. Now the system is ranked among the top two in baseball and we have real players, he says.

2005-11-01 17:15:24
295.   scareduck
They're expecting to get scoops out of Jon like he's Gammons or something.

And with that -- see ya, Jon!

2005-11-01 17:15:36
296.   natepurcell
i hope someone is taping this and hosting it online when its over...
2005-11-01 17:15:36
297.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
Mason concludes by saying he reads the blog all the time. And plugs the site. And that's it.
2005-11-01 17:16:52
298.   JSN
Trainwreck - I graduated from UCSB last year. I took a job in Charlotte, NC but some of my friends and my girlfriend are still there. How was Halloween? I can't believe I missed it there for the first time in like 6 years. Oh man now I'm starting to think about the ocean, and burritos, and eating a burrito on my ex-balcony overlooking the ocean....this is painful, must stop...
2005-11-01 17:16:54
299.   natepurcell
Mason concludes by saying he reads the blog all the time. And plugs the site. And that's it.

hmmm, guesses on who is mason??

2005-11-01 17:18:01
300.   Bob Timmermann
So how did Jon sound? More like James Earl Jones or more like Walter Brennan?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-11-01 17:18:48
301.   Bob Timmermann
There are a lot of lurkers compared to commenters.
2005-11-01 17:19:01
302.   Vishal
there's a difference between reading and posting. ross porter supposedly reads it too, but i doubt he has registered a screen name or checks the comments much.
2005-11-01 17:19:49
303.   Jon Weisman
283 - LOL.

They were very kind to me, weren't they?

2005-11-01 17:19:54
304.   Vishal
[298] man, i moved from california to upstate new york, and i can't find a decent burrito to save my life.

burritos are the perfect food.

2005-11-01 17:19:59
305.   molokai
I guess we should dumb down our comments since some 710 listeners will be visiting soon. That should be easy for me but might be hard for Bob and the like.
2005-11-01 17:21:06
306.   Vishal
[303] you were apparently pretty kind to bowden. i would have said nauseous instead of nervous. and probably used a few synonyms for "not smart".
2005-11-01 17:21:48
307.   blue22
I was in SB this weekend, so I stopped by IV for the first time in about 5 years (I left there in 1998).

The place looked like a big beer-toilet paper-and-guacamole bomb had exploded. It was also the morning after the time change, which had a lot of people really confused.

I had a breakfast burrito at the Cantina. Mmmm....

2005-11-01 17:21:56
308.   Vishal
and i don't mean it as a criticism or anything. i'm sure it's just that you're a nice guy, careful with his words :)
2005-11-01 17:22:10
309.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
He sounded like, oh, Robert Downey Jr. without the coke? Dunno, that's a tough one.
2005-11-01 17:22:27
310.   fanerman
305 - We come up with sophisticated comments?
2005-11-01 17:23:06
311.   JSN
Vishal - Yea everybody at work raves about this one place...and I mean rave. And I went there and it was about the 28th best burrito I've ever had. I did find a pretty good breakfast one though....
2005-11-01 17:23:33
312.   Marty
An al pastor burrito is maybe my favorite meal. mmmm....
2005-11-01 17:24:19
313.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
Simply put, he sounded intelligent. And that's a rarity on talk radio.
2005-11-01 17:24:38
314.   Rob M
They were kind to you. I wish you could have gotten more into defending DePodesta's methods, pointing out the successful trades, the successful non-signings of Finley and Beltre, the fact that Choi is actually pretty good. None of these things gets an airing in the local press.
2005-11-01 17:24:56
315.   capdodger
Mmm.... Burrito Thoughts....
2005-11-01 17:25:59
316.   dzzrtRatt
305 Hey, 710 listeners! You know the Angels? Well, we're the other team in town.
2005-11-01 17:26:14
317.   Rob M
Not to say it was your fault - they didn't conduct the interview that way.

It also would have been good to point out that signing someone that was totally against the current two year program would set the team back considerably.

2005-11-01 17:27:16
318.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
It must have been frustrating to get so little time. There's too much to be said for them to force you into 2 minutes.

Damn Romo took your time.

2005-11-01 17:29:25
319.   gvette
All hail the King of the Blogosphere!!
2005-11-01 17:30:08
320.   Jon Weisman
314/317 - Yeah, you know, you play the cards you're dealt. No open chat for me there.
2005-11-01 17:32:25
321.   JSN
You had to mention the Cantina didn't you blue22...i was trying not to get thinking about it. I went there two or three times a week for years on my way to campus in the morning. No beer belly from college here, just burrito belly.

A little more on topic, my brain hurts even trying to think of what I would want as an ideal yet realistic offseason from this moment forward. I'm too shocked and dazed and generally turned around. What GM? What manager? What free agents? What callups? What trades? I used to always have an idea of what I'd like to see happen. Now I feel like thinking about it probably isn't even worth it. What are some of your "ideal within reason" scenarios?

2005-11-01 17:34:07
322.   scareduck
300 - Jon sounds to me like a counter-baritone, almost a tenor. So Walter Brennan.
2005-11-01 17:34:58
323.   bokonon42
I went to Jr. High School with Jessica Alba. Maybe High School, too, I don't have any yearbooks. She was a mighty fine looking twelve year old.
2005-11-01 17:35:40
324.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
321 I've trimmed my wish list to "having a GM when the GM meetings start."
2005-11-01 17:37:02
325.   fanerman
I'm dreaming about Theo. Realistically, as long as Bowden, Lasorda, or anybody named McCourt is representing us at the GM meetings is all I can realisticaly hope for.
2005-11-01 17:37:06
326.   scareduck
321 - what you hope for:

GM: Branch Rickey
Manager: Walter Alston

What you get:

GM: Jamie McCourt
Manager: Bobby Valentine's dog

2005-11-01 17:38:01
327.   dzzrtRatt
317 That's the one fear, maybe the only fear, I don't have. McCourt can bloviate all he wants about how LA expects a winner, but he's not going to take on another big contract. He very seriously wants a 3 million-attendance/$50 million payroll team; that would give him lots of cash to pay down debt. He's dumb enough to think that a Tommy/Orel reunion will give the team the image it needs to draw the fans.

The more likely bad thing that will happen is that la creme de Jacksonville will be promoted en masse to the big club. Kent, but not Gagne, will be traded for some AAA-ers. Could be interesting, could be gruesome. I don't like forcefeeding kids as a rule. But, better to forcefeed them than to trade them.

2005-11-01 17:38:07
328.   fanerman
325 - crap. What I get for typing in class. Not what I meant to say. As long as our GM ISN'T Bowden, et al.
2005-11-01 17:38:40
329.   Humma Kavula
[321] Ideal within reason?

Hunsicker is GM. The manager is someone he chooses, someone who will implement his plan... which involves a real look at Choi.

I may have already strayed into The Land of Unlikelihood.

Pickup of Giles.

Aybar 3B
Choi 1B
Drew RF
Kent 2B
Giles LF
Bradley CF
Navarro/Martin C
Robles P

Somebody who knows more about the Jacksonville Six can fill in which one gets paired with Perez and traded. That person can also tell me who the object of the trade is. Who says I shouldn't be the GM!

Penny
Mystery Starting Pitcher
Lowe
Billingsley
Jackson/Dessens/Kavula

Ugh. This job is hard.

2005-11-01 17:39:14
330.   SMY
I'd rather have Valentine's dog for GM than Bowden.
2005-11-01 17:39:27
331.   bhsportsguy
Did you catch how Mason said media-friendly as a crieria in the choice for GM/Manager. I thought the Bowden comparison to Kevin Malone was priceless. And by the way, last time I checked, both Bobby Valentine and Jim Bowden are older than the guys they would be replacing, so much for putting a "younger face" on the club.
BTW Jon - I think Matthew was reading the email I sent the show yesterday with the excerpt of yesterday's blog.
2005-11-01 17:39:30
332.   Humma Kavula
obviously that should be Robles SS.
2005-11-01 17:40:54
333.   King of the Hobos
329 McCourt's in charge now. Regardless who the new GM is, I predict Bradley's chances of staying here are slim to none
2005-11-01 17:41:14
334.   fanerman
329 - Maybe Perez can get decent again, like in 2002 and 2004. Hey, 2006 is an even year.
2005-11-01 17:41:24
335.   gvette
326--yeah, but what if Valentine's dog takes the Devil Ray job?
2005-11-01 17:41:44
336.   Marty
Mike Waldner of the Daily Breeze has been right up there with Keisser in blasting Depo in his last few columns. In one, he said Depo should be fired instead of Tracy. In today's column, you'd think he actually liked Depo as he turns on Lasorda and McCourt. Very weird. But, Waldner's a very weird guy.
2005-11-01 17:41:47
337.   capdodger
329
*Navarro/Martin C
Robles P*

Should be:

Navarro/Martin C
Robles SS

Right?

2005-11-01 17:43:38
338.   fanerman
336 - Yeah, most of the media has taken the firing better than I hoped (ie, mad at McCourts not approving of them).
2005-11-01 17:43:40
339.   Humma Kavula
[333] hey, he said ideal. I agree that Drew will most likely be manning CF next year.

You will also notice that my ideal roster for next year has myself competing for the 5th starter job.

2005-11-01 17:45:14
340.   SMY
If Jessica Alba were GM, and Elisha Cuthbert were manager, we would definitely have the power of persuasion on our side. How hard could it be to attract quality free agents then?
2005-11-01 17:45:14
341.   Humma Kavula
[337] yes: [332]
2005-11-01 17:47:42
342.   dzzrtRatt
338 Well, then Camille Johnston better pack her office. This was supposed to be a good PR move. It must be her fault.
2005-11-01 17:49:20
343.   Humma Kavula
342 Maybe not. Maybe the McCourts ARE the brand... just like Enron is the brand or Worldcom is the brand.
2005-11-01 17:49:29
344.   JSN
I am interested in seeing Kim Ng get a shot. At this point I think considering a candidates philosophy is futile at best. I don't exactly know hers but my general impression is that she is a reasonable person. I wouldn't mind the Dodgers breaking down another barrier. That PR angle would be interesting. Plus McCourt knows she can fight for a buck (see Gagne arbitration). I can't even begin to consider a managerial candidate...I almost, ALMOST, miss Tracy.

Did everyone see what just happened there? I have been reduced to campaigning for a GM candidate because they seem like "a reasonable person." Oh misery..

2005-11-01 17:49:33
345.   fanerman
342 - The more people the McCourts fire the better.
2005-11-01 17:54:48
346.   capdodger
344 Reasonable people seem to be in short supply at in the Front Office...
2005-11-01 17:55:36
347.   JSN
346 I guess that's the sad thing.
2005-11-01 17:58:17
348.   Bob Timmermann
323

He knows Jessica Alba AND Geoff Blum! What a pair!

And he's been in my car!

WOW!

2005-11-01 18:00:21
349.   Bob Timmermann
I have been reduced to campaigning for a GM candidate because they seem like "a reasonable person."

I've heard that this Brutus guy is an honorable man. Maybe he should get a chance. He might be reasonable too.

2005-11-01 18:02:03
350.   natepurcell
ON XM Radio's MLB station. Theo Epstein is heading to LA. The deal could be announced as early as Friday

that is what someone posted on the espn dodger board.

again, this is the espn dodger board but, yea i think he is just messing with everyone.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-11-01 18:03:52
351.   fanerman
350 - Oh how much I want to believe it.
2005-11-01 18:05:19
352.   natepurcell
im going to believe it until its not true.

so what does everyone think theo's first personel move will be? (not counting a managerial hire)

2005-11-01 18:05:58
353.   fanerman
352 - Fire Lasorda. Hahahahaha. Can he even do that?
2005-11-01 18:06:24
354.   DaveP
ESPN 710 says Gillick has accepted the Phillies job and Bowden is the front runner for the Dodger GM spot.

I think I might be ill....

2005-11-01 18:07:31
355.   natepurcell
hey dave, i like my news report better :)
2005-11-01 18:10:02
356.   DaveP
355 - tell me about it. I really hope they are just throwing out a random guess about Bowden. Scary that he's even getting any consideration.
2005-11-01 18:10:54
357.   fanerman
355 - Me too.
2005-11-01 18:11:15
358.   King of the Hobos
354 See 350? I'm going to believe that. 710 or ESPN boards...I don't like either
2005-11-01 18:11:41
359.   D4P
The "ESPN Dodger board" source is not particularly reliable. S/he sometimes claims to be the mother of Ricky Ledee and to have inside information as a result.
2005-11-01 18:12:30
360.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 344

Ng by definition isn't part of baseball's old boys club. I believe she used to be in the Yankee front office and was originally a specialist in negotiations--I think she knows all the ins-and-outs of the CBA and may even have worked in the Commissioner's Office for a time. She was one of Evans' chief aides, which is why she handled Gagne's arbitration hearing, since DePo was so new to the org. I believe that before Collins was brought in, she ran the Farm on an interim basis, which I think she herself wanted to do since she had little background in player development and felt that that absence would hurt her in the future.

I don't know about Ng's attitudes toward statistical methods, but she seemed to get along just fine with DePo. And I presume she shares both Evans' and DePo's emphasis on building from within and long-term focus, which is really in the end the most important thing in my view.

My bold and ungrounded prediction of the evening is that Bowden will simply turn down an offer from us, out of hopes he can swing a long-term job out of whatever owner takes over in DC. Bobby V. will refuse to leave Japan and Orel will be made field manager. Having no remaining GM candidates left, Kim Ng will be tagged with the job out of pure desperation. Jamie McCourt will introduce her as part of that Women in Baseball iniative, or whatever that thing's called. McCourt's PR firm will have the sense to play this up for everything it's worth.

And out of all this swirl, Ng will show herself to be a good GM, she'll keep the farm intact, and we'll contend in the division. Payroll will stay static, although not as low as some of us fear. If Barry remains out of it, we may even win the NL Worst. We'll promptly leave the playoffs in the First Round, but Orel's aura and Ng's status as the Front Office version of Mia Hamm (sp?) will keep the media off McCourt's back. This will buy enough time for McCourt to keep himself afloat until the Jacksonville Dynasty comes in, which will in the end save both him and the franchise, at no credit to either him or his wife.

WWSH

2005-11-01 18:14:43
361.   bokonon42
348- I'm like Forrest Gump, but less friendly.
2005-11-01 18:15:30
362.   natepurcell
The "ESPN Dodger board" source is not particularly reliable. S/he sometimes claims to be the mother of Ricky Ledee and to have inside information as a result.

but he didnt post this under his ledeesmom persona lol.

2005-11-01 18:16:55
363.   JSN
WWSH,
While there seems to be a few too many moving parts in that scenario, I'd take it.
2005-11-01 18:18:31
364.   D4P
362
True. It was just one of his regular moron personas.
2005-11-01 18:18:39
365.   dzzrtRatt
Because I'm a sap, I just looked up the XM MLB site. Their lineup is an amalgam of Fox and ESPN talking heads, including Kevin Kennedy. If this was reported on XM, which no one's confirmed, it's at least as credible as any other thumbsucking news source.
2005-11-01 18:19:13
366.   natepurcell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nats team president Tony Tavares also said that the Los Angeles Dodgers, seeking a replacement for fired general manager Paul DePodesta, had not contacted him for permission to speak with GM Jim Bowden, who signed a six-month extension with the Nationals last week.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.washingtonpost.com/wp...01504.html

2005-11-01 18:19:23
367.   King of the Hobos
Gurnick mentions Ng as a candidate, which is the first time I've seen her name (that I can remember) when it wasn't on a fan site

And does anyone want this:

It has been speculated that the Dodgers would offer Valentine both titles -- manager and general manager -- with Lasorda serving as his senior consultant and Orel Hershiser as an assistant.

2005-11-01 18:19:54
368.   Steelyeri
359- LOL, How would Ricky Ledee's mother have inside information? Ledee himself wouldn't even know if he'll start from day to day.
2005-11-01 18:20:15
369.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 363

It all comes down in the short term at least to Bowden. It presumes Bowden has the sense to realize just how bad a spot our franchise in, and enough ego to think that he'll persuade the new Nats owner to keep him on the job. If he elects the job security of a position from McCourt and really is on good terms with Tommy, and I think McCourt will make him an offer, then we'll just have to live with him as our GM.

WWSH

2005-11-01 18:21:34
370.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Valentine as GM? Does he have any front office experience?

WWSH

2005-11-01 18:22:28
371.   natepurcell
It has been speculated that the Dodgers would offer Valentine both titles -- manager and general manager -- with Lasorda serving as his senior consultant and Orel Hershiser as an assistant.

this possibility is probably worst than bowden as GM.

2005-11-01 18:23:38
372.   Humma Kavula
[367] It's like they're daring me to renew my season tickets.
2005-11-01 18:24:04
373.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 366

I think McCourt will be asking permission soon. Wasn't that report from earlier today, before Gillick backed out?

WWSH

2005-11-01 18:29:53
374.   bokonon42
Ng counts as a minority for the MLB affirmative action interview requirement, right? So she's almost certain to get an interview. I'd be relieved and hopeful if she got the job.

But there has to be a reason DePo got the heave-ho, and Ng doesn't expain that. The Lasorda narrative makes sense in a horrifying way. The Epstein narrative makes sense in a not horrifying way (McCourt is still a jerk, but at least he isn't an idiot, too). Maybe Ng will be a happy Plan B, but I don't think she's the first choice.

2005-11-01 18:31:52
375.   Bob Timmermann
Was Whitey Herzog the last manager who also served as GM at the same time?
2005-11-01 18:31:55
376.   Fern
I trust Ledee's mom as much as a I trust my dog to teach my Spanish class (though considering how many students sleep in my class i'm not sure the class average would drop too much in that scenario).

Anyway, the appointment of GM is secondary to McCourt's "love me" complex which will probably prompt him to force whoever the new GM is to trade some of the enormous minor league talent for a bandaid solution and good PR. Earlier someone mentioned something about pitchforks and torches at McCourt's house. Anyone got the address? Hmm. How much does airfare from NC to LA run nowadays?

2005-11-01 18:31:59
377.   natepurcell
i would like to see more dodger press concerning hunsicker.
2005-11-01 18:32:46
378.   Bob Timmermann
Hunsicker isn't going to interview in person. He's going to send a proxy.
2005-11-01 18:33:23
379.   das411
So Tomm...er, Thomas Nac, is tonight the night they write off Monica Potter? Or will Spader (or Shatner?) start chasing her around instead?
2005-11-01 18:34:19
380.   JSN
CLT to LAX as low as 240 a month in advance...a couple of months ago at least. I'll hop take the flight with you...except I don't think we can carry on pitchforks anymore..hmm.
2005-11-01 18:34:39
381.   gvette
Was Dallas Green a GM/manager?
2005-11-01 18:36:19
382.   natepurcell
except I don't think we can carry on pitchforks anymore..hmm.

i know a place in LA that will give us discounts if we order more than 15

2005-11-01 18:36:45
383.   D4P
376
Fern - Where in NC do you live?
2005-11-01 18:37:59
384.   Bob Timmermann
Dallas Green has been a GM and a manager, but never both at the same time.
2005-11-01 18:39:31
385.   Fern
How much has Tommy Lasorda recent dementia tainted the '88 Dodgers for you all? I know that he has quite a bit for me.
2005-11-01 18:39:50
386.   GoBears
Bill Simmons (The Sports Guy) has an interesting column on Epstein's departure from the BoSox on ESPN.com. I generally like his stuff, but even if you don't, you might like this one. Less pop-culture humor; more serious this time.
2005-11-01 18:40:32
387.   Fern
I live in the Triangle area. Durham now after a couple years in Chapel Hill. Previously lived in WOodland Hills. I miss it.
2005-11-01 18:41:32
388.   D4P
387
I live in Durham as well. Moved here from Oregon 2 years ago. We live in Old West Durham.
2005-11-01 18:42:18
389.   gvette
384 Maybe I was thinking of Paul Owen of the Phillies.
2005-11-01 18:42:45
390.   bokonon42
Pitchforks go for $27.95 on Amazon.

http://tinyurl.com/9tlrr

2005-11-01 18:43:18
391.   Fern
I live in Southeast Durham, near RTP and SOuthpoint. My wife and I just got a house in one of the few nicer neighborhoods we could afford. We're both teachers.
2005-11-01 18:44:52
392.   Fern
So, if Bowden is the new GM do we become D-Rays fans? I already enjoy watching B.J. upton and Delmon Young.
2005-11-01 18:45:14
393.   D4P
391
Not sure whether Old West counts as a "nicer" neighborhood, but there are some great houses in this neighborhood that are also pretty affordable. I'm a doctoral student at UNC. Can't say I really like living here all that much.
2005-11-01 18:45:53
394.   Fern
So, if we buy the plane tickets, you supply the pitchforks? Come on guys, this has to be a team effort.
2005-11-01 18:49:32
395.   Bob Timmermann
It looks Paul Owens held both jobs in 1983 and 1984 for Philadelphia. Herzog held both jobs for St. Louis in 1981 and 1982.

One source said Herzog won Executive of the Year in 1982, but Retrosheet only lists one winner for that award (from the Sporting News) and it was Harry Dalton. Herzog did win Manager of the Year.

Owens, despite leading the Phillies to the World Series with an aged team, won neither Executive of the Year (Hank Peters) nor NL Manager of the Year (Lasorda) in 1983.

2005-11-01 18:49:41
396.   bokonon42
394- As long as you have no follow-up questions whatsoever, I can bring the horses head to put in their bed.
2005-11-01 18:50:05
397.   natepurcell
this can be the second DT annual trip.

the first was the adam dunn scouting excursion.

this can be the "threaten the mccourts with pitchforks and burn down thier home" escapade.

2005-11-01 18:51:05
398.   D4P
397
Oh, mark my words: the pitchfork activities will exceed mere threats.
2005-11-01 18:51:54
399.   Fern
I like the subtlty in the name. I don't think anyone will suspect a thing.
2005-11-01 18:51:56
400.   Steelyeri
If Epstein takes the GM job and gets, let's say, a five year contract. I think he would probably be hoping for a McCourt blow-up in about, oh, about a year and a half. That way he could have 3 years paid vacation like his good friend Depo.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-11-01 18:53:31
401.   Steelyeri
398,
D4P wants to poke McCourt's cat.
2005-11-01 18:53:36
402.   Fern
D4P

Do you have a local spot where you catch games during the season? We could start a west coast transplants dodger support group.

2005-11-01 18:53:46
403.   natepurcell
how come bill james doesnt get any GM interviews?
2005-11-01 18:53:56
404.   D4P
400
Hmmm...are you implying that Depo wanted to get fired all along?

3 years paid vacation >>> 3 years paid work

2005-11-01 18:54:15
405.   dzzrtRatt
The Valentine/Hershiser/Lasorda scenario sounds like Tommy's fallback wish list if Gillick and Bowden are both out. I don't think it passes the 'good PR for McCourt-the-brand' test. It sounds too jerry-rigged. He'd have to want Valentine real, real bad, and I bet McCourt's never even met Valentine.
2005-11-01 18:55:37
406.   gvette
395--Thanks Bob-- can't say that I'm looking forward to seeing Valentine (with help from Uncle Tommy) repeat that experiment.
2005-11-01 18:55:54
407.   Fern
For all their similarities, it's never been clear to me that Depo and Theo are good friends. I've always wondered that? Are they tight or just colegial?
2005-11-01 18:56:04
408.   RobG
Let's see, Epstein left Boston cause of a meddling owner and ridiculous media coverage, yup I see him just jumping at the bit to come to LA so he can deal with the McCourts and Simers and the lot.

Epstein will probably take the year off unless Towers takes his Boston job and he can take the Padres job. Just my humble opinion...

2005-11-01 18:56:11
409.   bokonon42
If I were in anyway qualified, or if my last name were McCourt, I'd love to have the GM job, just for the prospect of a three year vacation. It'd be tough not to actually sabatoge the team, in hopes of provoking one.
2005-11-01 18:57:00
410.   D4P
402
No, I haven't been watching any games. I'd be kinda surprised if they were on anywhere. Do you watch the games? I can't say I'm overly excited to watch them these days. Last season I paid for MLB audio and listened to Vin* while following along on Gameday.

*Technically I also listened to Steiner and Monday, but I try to forget that as much as possible.

2005-11-01 19:01:43
411.   Fern
410.
I did the same thing. I contemplated getting the MLB.tv package, but I was getting a miserly stipend from UNC and could barely afford house payments. So, I sat through the little blue and red orbs on mlb.com and saw the whole heart-breaking season in my mind's eye.

There has to be a local bar, among the dozens, with the extra innings package that we can persuade to show dodger games on a daily basis.

2005-11-01 19:03:09
412.   D4P
411
Where do you teach now?
2005-11-01 19:03:24
413.   Steelyeri
404-

I think it was more of Depo stumbling into a great situation. For himself anyway. But if Epsteing takes the job hoping for something similar to happen, I wouldn't blame him. :)

2005-11-01 19:04:46
414.   Fern
I finished an M.A. program in Comparative Literature and now teach at Riverside High in Durham.
2005-11-01 19:06:34
415.   Mark
There is no way Epstein is coming to the Dodgers.

1. Look at how unceremoniously DePodesta was dumped. Do we really think McCourt is going to hire another SABR guy? Do we really think another SABR guy is going to trust McCourt?

2. Nobody leaves the Red Sox to come to the 2005 Dodgers. Nobody. Sorry.

3. I maintain my Lasorda/Hershiser prediction. If Lasorda isn't going to be GM, then it'll be Valentine/Hershiser. Alternatively, the McCourts will wind up losing a very pricey game of musical chairs.

2005-11-01 19:09:43
416.   D4P
414
Are you planning on staying here long? We want to leave as soon as possible.
2005-11-01 19:11:43
417.   Fern
My wife and I are pretty happy here. Her family is relatively close (charlotte) and we've made good friends here. Why do you want to leave?
2005-11-01 19:16:03
418.   natepurcell
hey d4p, is "misterblu" another topdeck persona?
2005-11-01 19:16:22
419.   D4P
417
Well, the job opportunities here are really bad for my wife. That's really the main reason. She's been miserable since our arrival. We don't have any family near, nor any really good friends. We also don't like the weather.
2005-11-01 19:17:06
420.   D4P
418
I have always assumed so.
2005-11-01 19:21:41
421.   Fern
Well, i don't think you can compare anywhere on the east coast to the weather on the west coast, generally speaking. But, it doesn't bother me much anymore. I was miserable the first March I spent out here and it was still about 35 degrees and raining every day. But, you make sacrifices. We had to get out of L.A., to expensive for a couple of people who knew they had no aspirations for careers that pay an actual living wage.

What does your wife do?

2005-11-01 19:21:51
422.   MikeLumHarris
415.
There is no way that Lasorda will be named the official GM. The man is 78 years old and even the McCourts are smart enough to know that they can't sell that to the idiot press.
2005-11-01 19:22:43
423.   capdodger
415
1. It has nothing to do with SABR or statistics. It's all about Plaschkers. Epstein can wave his magic ring at them and they go away (for a while).

2. You leave the Red Sox because you hate your boss. You come to the Dodgers because they have a stacked farm system, medium-high payroll, and players in the show that you would have liked to have signed.

3. Lasorda isn't going to GM. He's just too darn old and doesn't want the hours. I think the musical chairs scenario is the most likely

2005-11-01 19:23:42
424.   D4P
She's a landscape architect. The rain doesn't bother me. I can't stand the humidity.
2005-11-01 19:27:31
425.   Fern
Lanscape architect...yeah, I'm sure the massive subdivisions here don't have much of a need for a creative touch.

I can stand the humidity fine. One of the perks of being a teacher is that you don't have to sweat through any dress shirts in the summer.

I'll talk to you later D4P. Going to bed. I've got to recharge before facing another roomfull of tuned-out adolescents. Good talking to you.

2005-11-01 19:31:45
426.   Marty
D4P, come back to Southern California. Good landscape architects can do well out here. I laid out a small fortune a couple years ago to one.
2005-11-01 19:31:49
427.   D4P
426
Yeah, the landscape design here is very uninspiring. As a student, I can wear shorts and sandals everyday, but I still sweat like a pig in the humidity.

Good talking to you too. I don't envy your time spent with adolescents. I could never teach anything less than college.

2005-11-01 19:33:40
428.   D4P
426
I never lived in Southern California, although I was born in Northern CA. UCLA and UC-Irvine have programs in my field, but we both hate Southern California, so I doubt we'll end up there. But that's good to hear that there's a little money to be made.
2005-11-01 19:34:25
429.   Goozmani
A fellow North Carolinian as well right here. I doubt any bars around here would allow us to catch the games.

Luckily (i guess) Washington is the closest NL park. Besides that, and the farm systems, its about as far from Dodger Land as it gets.

2005-11-01 19:36:55
430.   Marty
There's a LOT of money to be made. Mine comes back every year to freshen up on the work that was done. She told me last January, "I had a nice year. Two 200K jobs and 3 100K jobs".

BTW, My job was for nowhere near that.

2005-11-01 19:39:23
431.   King of the Hobos
Scott Little, manager of Vero Beach and currently of the Phoenix Desert Dogs, has left the organization. He will be the new minor league field coordinator for the Nationals
2005-11-01 19:39:26
432.   D4P
430
Does she work for herself, or for a firm?
2005-11-01 19:40:56
433.   natepurcell
everyone is leaving the dodgers.
2005-11-01 19:44:07
434.   Marty
432 For herself. She does complete packages garden, patio, pools etc. I had her do a patio with pergola, install irrigation, replace sod and relandscape the front and back yard. She has a team of concrete, tree, lawn crews, so some of the money goes to them.
2005-11-01 19:55:49
435.   capdodger
Would the last person to leave the Dodgers please turn off the lights and make sure the freezer is closed? We don't want next year's cool-a-coos thawing out prematurely. Now that would be a disaster...
2005-11-01 19:57:40
436.   D4P
434
The projects my wife currently works on are often projects in which the landscape design is required by local regulations, and the developers want to do as little as necessary to get by. In the case of residential projects, the homeowners are choosing to have the project done, and are often willing to spend more money. She hasn't done much residential thus far.
2005-11-01 20:27:28
437.   bokonon42
Tommy Lasorda makes another t.v. appearence: his (framed) head shot was on the bookcase of Tucker Carleson's first guest, representative from an Italian-American interest group. He came on to complain about media use of the nickname, "Scalito".
2005-11-01 21:23:00
438.   Telemachos
Not to venture into politics, but I really don't get the uproar over the "Scalito" nickname.

Ah well.

With Bowden looming on the horizon, is this some sort of demented nightmare? When do I get to wake up?

2005-11-01 21:26:53
439.   trainwreck
298-
Halloween was actually the weakest its been. A lot of people but still nowhere near what is normal. The cool thing was that it lasted 4 days because Halloween fell on a Monday. Wow to move from SB to NC that is quite a change of scenery.
2005-11-01 22:27:23
440.   Xeifrank
Skimming over the last 200 or so comments, I have a few things on my mind. First off, I am very jealous of the person who went to Jr High school with J.Alba. Secondly, yes UCSB is a party school. I was there for a few years, back when they had a great basketball team with Brian Shaw and would always upset UNLV. Nothing like attending a game at the ThunderDome back in the hayday. Thirdly, I am still in denial about Depodesta. All this talk about Bowden, LaSorda, Valentine and Hershiser is gnawing at me. My denial is so bad, that I think this was all a plot hatched by the McCourts or someone smarter than them. They fire Depodesta and hire a couple of big face names like Hershiser and Valentine, but Depodesta is really the guy pulling the GM strings behind the scenes. Kind of like the guy in the Wizard of Oz... please pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!!!!!!!! AGHHHHHHHHHH! vr, Xei
2005-11-11 22:42:44
441.   dodgerbuff55
I have been a Dodger fan since I was 8 in 1969. I have seen the success under the O'Malley's throughout the 70's. I have read up on Dodger history and their penchant for being pioneers in integrating baseball, strength of the farm system, stable ownership and management up until 1998. From the time Peter reluctantly had to sell the team, (thanks to Bud Selig and his small market cronies pushing Peter out of the inner circle of the ownership committees and the L.A. City Council asking Peter to back off on a stadium deal to bring football to LA at Chavez Ravine), this team has been a mess. We all know how useless Fox was as ownership from a baseball perspective for the Dodgers then we had to sit and take it as small market Bud rammed McCourt down our throats, with McCourt so highly leveraged to Fox that he can't afford to run this team properly. McCourt hires a numbers guy as GM that doesn't believe team chemistry means anything and this GM gets rid of any player from our 2004 team that showed any spirit and passion to play for this once proud franchise. I see no direction, no plan for this team, an extreme mismatch of loners, i.e. Kent, injured players, i.e. Driefort and Drew that were signed to suffocating long contracts and an overall team that plays devoid of emotion and team spirit. I am demoralized. We can go two ways, go the free agent route where the Dodgers have experienced more busts than success or we can bite the bullet in 2006 and hope by 2007, our young studs in Jacksonville turn out the next generation of Garvey, Cey, Yeager, Lopes & Russell. I opt for the latter.

Signed a frustrated Dodger fan in the San Fernando Valley!! I am truly looking for a light at the end of the tunnel.

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