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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The GM Search Continues
2005-11-02 07:05
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

We have live footage.

* * *

Curious: Do those who complained that the Dodgers did not retain enough players from the 2004 National League West champions want your next general manager to:

a) move to reacquire those Dodgers who were let go?
b) keep the Dodgers you currently have (because they are Dodgers now)?
c) consider all bets off and be willing to give or get anyone?

* * *

Toastermate Alex Belth of Bronx Banter passes along the news that "a statue of Pee Wee Reese with his arm around Jackie Robinson was unveiled yesterday in Brooklyn commemorating one of baseball's most touching moments." Ira Berkow of the New York Times has a story, accompanied by a picture of the statue with Rachel Robinson and Dottie Reese in front.

* * *

Contrary to appearances, Cesar Izturis statistically had a better fielding season in his injury-curtailed 2005 statistically than in 2004, writes Clay Davenport of Baseball Prospectus.

* * *

Update: The interview is two years old, but here are a couple of quotes that Dodger assistant general manager Kim Ng gave to Jonah Keri of Baseball Prospectus:

You can't go in there and tear a team apart. The Dodgers were built on pitching and defense. The Yankees were pretty well-balanced. There are a lot of different ways to build a club. To come in and say, 'I will do XYZ by doing ABC,' you're probably going to hurt yourself in the end.

I can say that I am a proponent of being strong up the middle offensively. It's something I saw with the Yankees having such great success, something I believe in. How you build a team also depends on the ballpark. In Dodger Stadium it's difficult to hit home runs, so you have to adjust to that. The people in place, ballpark factors, there's a wide variety of factors that differ with each organization. But a lot of the emphasis I would put would be on scouting and player development. Financial flexibility is the way to succeed, and having great scouting and player development is the best way to achieve that flexibility.

And ...

The relationship you have with the media is important to any organization, and you can run into problems if you don't maintain a good one. How you handle it depends on the personality of the person. You have to be open and up-front. But if the information you have, if sharing it has a chance of hurting your deal, you'd just as soon it not get out.

At the time, Ng indicated that Yankee general manager Brian Cashman was a great influence on her. Ng worked under Cashman for four years.

Comments (461)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-11-02 07:26:06
1.   King of the Hobos
Looks like Hunsicker and Gillick are out. I'm going to trust Henson when he says Hart and Bowden haven't been contacted. And Epstein probably has little to no interest

At this point, it looks like Ng/Hershiser/(Lasorda), or Gilbert/Ng. I guess neither of those would be disasterous, especially if Lasorda kept himself out of the picture

2005-11-02 07:26:25
2.   HomeDePo
Good Morning did anybody watch 1st and 10 yesterday? Woody said that the Dodgers had SPOKEN with Theo and he was a lock as the next Dodger GM.... Not that anything that Woody says is realistic. I guess it was kind of interesting.
2005-11-02 07:30:42
3.   fanerman
I don't understand why Theo would take it if he were such good friends with DePo... unless this was planned from the beginning or Theo and DePo had a falling out.
2005-11-02 07:32:35
4.   fanerman
Note to Jerry Crasnick (if you read this) that for some odd reason I call Theo by his first name but DePo by his (shortened) last name.
2005-11-02 07:36:44
5.   D4P
4
Maybe being a Dodger fan has caused you to develop a taste for four-letter words.
2005-11-02 07:41:32
6.   fanerman
2 - What time is 1st and 10 on? God I wish he's right.
2005-11-02 07:42:58
7.   Bob Timmermann
Doug Krikorian is a big Dennis Gilbert fan. I'm thinking that Gilber has sprung for a few meals for Krikorian in his day.
2005-11-02 07:46:24
8.   HomeDePo
6

1st and 10 is on around 1:00 or 2;00. I know it is in the early afternoon. I just tIVO it! It shows all of the 1st and 10 that is shown on cold pizza in the morning but you do not have to wait through all of the junk on Cold Pizza.

2005-11-02 07:50:55
9.   Telemachos
I heard the tail-end of a Gilbert interview on 1540 a couple of weeks ago and he sounded comatose (this while the Sox were in the thick of the playoffs).

Unless the McCourts truly have something clever up their sleeves, or are extraordinarily lucky, they are following the idiotic decisions of the 49ers a couple of years ago: do not fire someone who's taken your team to the playoffs without having already decided on (and come to relative terms with) their higher-profile replacement.

If the McCourts are reduced to having some sort of Ng/Hershiser front-office, that's arguably the best case scenario for us (I don't think Theo is a realistic option). But it's really exactly the same sort of move McCourt made when he signed DePo, which makes the firing even more pointless.

2005-11-02 07:55:51
10.   Jon Weisman
9 - Perhaps McCourt is reacting to the criticism he got for looking for a new GM before firing Dan Evans and making Evans interview for his own job.
2005-11-02 07:56:40
11.   Marty
I used to enjoy Krikorian's columns when he was at the Herald. But he's gone really downhill since. So now, I don't trust his opinion at all. If he's a Gilbert fan, then I'm against it.
2005-11-02 07:58:25
12.   SMY
My dream scenario is that McCourt realizes he's screwed and begs DePo to return. Then McCourt looks stupid and DePo has the hammer.

But I agree, an Ng/Hershiser combo is probably the best we can hope for at this point.

2005-11-02 08:00:37
13.   Marty
We don't know that Hershiser even wants a front office job. Some story mentioned him having to come to grips with the idea of wearing a suit and not a uniform. He may want to stay on the field and have dreams of managing.
2005-11-02 08:10:26
14.   Terry A
12 Unfortunately, there's no evidence that McCourt understands exactly what it is that makes him look so incredibly stupid. The man simply has no peer when it comes to leaping before looking.

By the by, how does Dennis Gilbert's resume mesh with McCourt's stated desire for an "experienced" GM? Of the alleged candidates currently being whispered about, only Bowden (gulp) and Epstein seem to fit that requirement.

2005-11-02 08:11:43
15.   Dr Love
By the by, how does Dennis Gilbert's resume mesh with McCourt's stated desire for an "experienced" GM?

Shouldn't we know better than to take McCourt on his word?

2005-11-02 08:12:55
16.   underdog
Of the remaining (rumored) candidates, I think:
- John Hart would be a very solid choice imho; he did good things in Cleveland, and mistakes he's since made are no worse than those mistakes made by other well-regarded GMs
- Kim Ng would also be a good choice, good for PR, good for the team (because she knows it so well) and people like her, a progressive move. But would McCourt and Lasorda trust her and stay out of her way, would they respect her? Hard to picture that, unless Lasorda comes to his senses and stays the heck out of everyone's way for once. (Yeah, right.)
- Gilbert would be a dull move that smacks of desperation.
- Bobby V as manager wouldn't kill me but Lasorda's dream of Bobby V as GM/manager would.
Theo's not coming, or I'll be very happily shocked if he is at any rate - as stated above and in the Times, if he's good friends with DePo, why on Earth would he take this mess on? But stranger things have happened I suppose.
2005-11-02 08:29:13
17.   Steelyeri
I don't think Theo will take the job either. But I don't think it will be because of his friendship with Depo. It's just an unatractive job right now, and I heard he wants to take a year off.

If the Dodgers are his most attractive offer, he should probably take the job. I don't think there would be any hard feelings between them (Depo and Theo) if he does. They are both smart guys and should know how to separate business and friendship.

It's not like Depo would get his job back if theo refuses to take it.

2005-11-02 08:32:38
18.   Dr Love
If the Dodgers are his most attractive offer, he should probably take the job.

Since they're the only team left, if I were Theo I'd just wait a year and see what opens up.

2005-11-02 08:41:09
19.   blue22
if I were Theo I'd just wait a year and see what opens up

That's the thing...what else could open up? LA has psycho owners, but the farm system is stocked, the roster has flexibility, the city is dying for a winner. It's a pretty good job if Theo can use his leverage as a hot commodity to come in on his own terms.

San Diego is the one job that worries me the most, but that job sounds like it'll be open this year, not next.

2005-11-02 08:43:00
20.   blue22
And I'm also not sure Bobby V. comes in as manager. He's making $3M / year right now, and is in line for another raise. Maybe he'd come for the GM position, but he's really unqualified for that.

As much as I want Theo, I'm thinking Bowden comes on (bleech) as GM, Ng is his asst., and Orel is in the dugout.

2005-11-02 08:52:49
21.   Sushirabbit
You know, people in "Real" Estate make money alot by "flipping"... what better way to make your team attractive for selling than to bring in Epstein?

I agree McCourt looks in over his head, and scare like he knows we can see it. Maybe he/they will think about selling while the selling is good.

Hey a man can dream, can't he? (maybe this is the Delusional phase)

2005-11-02 09:11:28
22.   Peanuts in My Shoes
21 Maybe that's another reason why he's getting the stadium all nice and shiny. A real estate man know that's what you do before you sell, right? ;)
2005-11-02 09:15:43
23.   Eric L
22 I had that same thought the other day.
2005-11-02 09:19:28
24.   Humma Kavula
I have to admit, I don't know much about Ng.

Somebody said somewhere that as AGM she oversaw the farm system before Collins was hired because she didn't have much player-development experience and wanted to get some. That's admirable.

How much experience does she have in this area now? This would seem to be the area that is most critical to the Dodgers right now; we need a GM who can decide which of the Jacksonville prospects are the keepers and which we trade for more-developed veterans. After all, isn't it unlikely that all six will be promoted to the big club at the same time? If so, some will be going. Who? And who do we try to trade them for? These are the most important questions, in my mind, that will affect the Dodgers for the next five to ten years.

I believe all the reports that Ng has a brilliant mind when it comes to the business of baseball -- everyone says she knows the ins and outs of the CBA. I'd bet that ability would translate well to the kind of analysis required of free agent acquisitions.

Here's my other question: even if Ng is the best candidate, why the hell would she stick around to train Hershiser at the job? I've had to train my replacement, and believe me, it sucks. I wanted no part of it, but I had to leave on good terms and I knew that there would only be a few days of that experience. I can't imagine being a lame duck from moment one.

Sorry for the long post.

2005-11-02 09:24:41
25.   molokai
John Hart:
Other then making the following Fred Claire/Pedro/Delino like trades he's done a great job:
1. Traded Brian Giles for Juan Rincon-possibly the worse trade in the AL in the last 25 years
2. Traded Sean Casey for Burba
3. Traded Richie Sexson for Bob Wickman and fluff
4. Traded Travis Hafner for Einar Diaz and Ryan Drese
5. Traded Jeff Kent who was just starting his offensive run to the Giants for the downsloping Matt Williams. Of course I do need to give him credit for trading Baerga for Kent in the 1st place. To bad for the Inidans he didn't stop there.

He doesn't seem to like slugging 1st baseman(not counting Casey as a slugging 1st baseman) and does seem to love to trade them for worthless pieces. Really those 4 trades are so lopsided I can't imagine how the man continues to have a job. How these trades turned were not surprises. They were bad deals when they were made and some become historically bad as time went on.

On the plus side he seems to mentor great assistants and was generally credited with starting the trend signing his young starts to contracts taking them out of the aribtration years.

2005-11-02 09:28:32
26.   Penarol1916
Who saw the Daily Quickie today where Shanoff was writing that the Red Sox should hire Ng, and his loser of the day is the Dodgers?
I'm so depressed by these recent events that I can only follow in detached bemusement, or at least pretend to.
2005-11-02 09:29:14
27.   molokai
The only reason that Kim Ng is being mentioned is because she counts as a minority and all GM searches are required to interview a minority per Bud. That is just my opinion but it is 100% correct:)
If I'm wrong I'll gladly treat the DT group to a beer at the next DT group Dodger game.
2005-11-02 09:31:12
28.   Humma Kavula
OK, molokai, I believe you. Who's the new GM?
2005-11-02 09:32:44
29.   blue22
25 - To be fair to John Hart, I think he also was the guy in charge when the Indians locked up their core of young players (Belle, Thome, Alomar, Lofton, Vizquel, etc). The players you mention that were traded were dealt for complementary veterans to help them win in the mid 90s (which they did quite frequently).

At the time, the Indians were the model of how to run a franchise from developing within and bringing in supplemental pieces, a model that was copied (sorta) by the late 90s Yankees.

2005-11-02 09:39:04
30.   gvette
Not to repeat my post from last thread but:

1)Why would Ng take a job just to teach someone else (Hershiser) the ropes? Who is there to teach her as a first time GM the ropes?

2)What exactly IS her player personnel philosophy?

3)Why is she more qualified than any other potential internal candidate?

4)Why would she get a media pass for being inexperienced? Why would she be considered more media friendly than her predecessors?

Krikorian (with McDonnell) pumped Gilbert for the GM job last time. Must be a lot of free meals at his favorite Long Beach restaurant at stake.

2005-11-02 09:42:32
31.   blue22
But if Bowden reminds one of Kevin Malone in terms of his arrogance, Hart has to be reminiscent of Malone's career path to date. Both had great success working for smaller market teams where you had to be financially creative. But when given access to a larger budget, was held hostage by Scott Boras, bidding against themselves for a superstar signed to an excessively long and expensive contract that handcuffed the franchise for the better part of a decade.

I thought Kevin Malone was a spectacular hiring at the time. I guess I've learned my lesson, because both Bowden and Hart scare the bejeezus out of me.

2005-11-02 09:44:46
32.   Penarol1916
31. Wasn't Malone an assistant GM rather than the actual GM before he came to the Dodgers, he was just credited with a lot of the success?
2005-11-02 09:48:04
33.   Telemachos
The truly hilarious (though ridiculously unlikely) possibility would be McCourt managing to successfully land Epstein, who then brings back DePo as his assistant GM to help him see his vision through.

Oh, the gnashing of teeth from the MSM then!

2005-11-02 09:49:12
34.   jeongers
Epstein is obviously the ideal scenario, but at least we know with Ng that she worked with DePodesta. If she's smart and specializes in the business side of baseball, she may hire a sabre-savvy consultant who can do the numbers like DePo did for Beane.

Given the insanity of the McCourts, this is the only scenario that seems comforting and realistic. Epstein seems like a longshot at best.

Part of me wants to see the Dodgers take a calamitous fall, with McCourt going bankrupt. And Tommy can go to the great Giant in the underworld.

2005-11-02 09:49:13
35.   Dr Love
The only reason that Kim Ng is being mentioned is because she counts as a minority and all GM searches are required to interview a minority per Bud. That is just my opinion but it is 100% correct:)

No it isn't. All manager searches must include a minority. Not GMs.

2005-11-02 09:50:00
36.   molokai
28I'm on pins and needles like the rest of you. Just don't have any belief that McCourt would take a gamble on Kim Ng. He gambled once and in his mind he lost.
2005-11-02 09:51:17
37.   Jon Weisman
From BaseballCrank.com:

-------

Really, there's only one solution that makes sense at this point. Three simple steps:

1. Give Plaschke the GM job.
2. Give DePodesta a daily column in the LAT.
3. Buy popcorn.

2005-11-02 09:54:48
38.   blue22
35 - I wish I could cite a source, but I just read recently that the Dodgers would have to either interview a minority, or submit an explanation to MLB as to why they didn't.
2005-11-02 09:55:06
39.   Bob Timmermann
Malone's shiny mark on his ledger was the 1994 Expos for whom he was the GM. Then he went to Baltimore as an assistant. He took the demotion because Montreal was not exactly the easiest place to work and Peter Angelos actually looked benevolent compared to Claude Brochu.
2005-11-02 09:55:17
40.   gvette
34--How do you know that Ng supports a sabremetric approach to Player Personnel?

After firing DePodesta, how do you know that McCourt wants to continue using a sabre-friendly approach to Player Personnel?

Absent any info as to her approach and philosophy, there is no way of knowing what her approach would be.

2005-11-02 09:55:34
41.   Telemachos
Eric Karros, of all people, was on Colin Cowherd's ESPN show this morning and said one of the reasons Epstein would never take the job is that DePo, while publically being the "good soldier", was privately appalled at some of the McCourt decisions and no doubt would tell Theo all the nitty-gritty ugliness behind the curtain.

Of course, Karros then went off on the "unbelievably bad" contracts that DePo handed out, so....

2005-11-02 09:56:32
42.   jasonungar05
Borrowed from another poster's idea in the other thread and of course from Mr David and Seinfeld.

That's it. This is it. I'm done. Through. It's over. I'm gone. Finished. Over. I will never work for you again. Look at you.

[laughing] You think you're an important man? Is that what you think? You are a laughingstock. You are a joke. These people are laughing at you. You're nothing! You have no brains, no ability, nothing! [knocking object over on desk] I quit.

---

LEVITAN: Am I crazy, or didn't you quit?
GEORGE: When?
LEVITAN: Friday.
GEORGE: Oh, what? What? That? Are you kidding? I didn't quit. What? You took that seriously?
LEVITAN: You mean, laughingstock? All that stuff?
GEORGE: Come on. Will you stop it.
LEVITAN: No brains? No ability?
GEORGE: Teasing.

LEVITAN: Okay. I want you outta here.

2005-11-02 09:59:22
43.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
42 You lost me there... Which one's DePodesta?
2005-11-02 10:00:51
44.   molokai
25
If you read my whole post I did give Hart credit for signing all the young players that you mentioned. In fact right after he signed Manny and the kids if he had retired then he would have been considered a brilliant GM. Unfortunately for Indian fans he didn't and gutted the future while not helping the present and not one thing other then Wickman remains from his destruction.

Do you know how many times Giles/Sexson/Hafner/Kent have been in the top 10 in MVP voting since they were traded? No other GM in baseball has that legacy.

2005-11-02 10:02:52
45.   jeongers
40 - I don't have any knowledge of what Ng's baseball philosophy is. But at least with Ng, there's some mystery involved. It's speculation that gives me a little hope, because the other realistic scenario seems to be to hire Bowden. I don't want Bowden. I want someone who will continue with the philosophy DePo put in place. I don't think Epstein is realistic. There's a chance that Ng might, though. And she does have a reputation as a tough negotiator.
2005-11-02 10:03:30
46.   Bob Timmermann
I think Eric Karros is one of the most explosive names you can bring up here now. I think he might tick off people more than Plaschke. I think Jon has more issues with Karros than Plaschke.

(Of course, he wouldn't if Karros had played at Stanford instead of UCLA)

2005-11-02 10:05:10
47.   fanerman
Is Epstein's press conference or whatever it is right now? It's 1 PM ET.
2005-11-02 10:05:12
48.   molokai
38
Your right, that is what one of the local papers reported several days ago. It is possible they got confused with the manager search but they mentioned the GM search not the manager search. They also stated that the team that is doing a search for a new GM must submit the list to the commissioner's office.
2005-11-02 10:12:20
49.   slackfarmer
45 I agree. I might take known mediocraty (Gillick) over Ng, but I'd much rather have her than known crap (Bowden).
2005-11-02 10:12:42
50.   capdodger
47 A quick search of the Sons of Sam Horn forums seems to indicate that it will be on ESPN news and possibly streaming off the Red Sox homepage.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-11-02 10:13:43
51.   gvette
45--
There is no info out there that Ng is a proponent of sabremetrics. Even if there were:

Why would a brand new, inexperienced GM employ the same philosophy that just got her predecessor fired?

2005-11-02 10:14:02
52.   Nagman
48 and the same article which did refer to the GM search, I believe, said that if they didn't have any minority candidates on the list, MLB will provide a list of qualified minority candidates from which they must choose, for an interview.... something like that, anyway.
2005-11-02 10:14:59
53.   Marty
I've got it. Karros for GM!!
2005-11-02 10:16:16
54.   subclub
I know I barely ever post and you guys probably aren't dying to hear my thoughts, but I've just been lurking and sulking for the past few days. As a relatively new Dodger fan (just moved to L.A. in the middle of the 2004 season), it was exciting to root for a team that seemed to be heading in the right direction. DePodesta was obviously a huge part of that and following his moves was fascinating for a SABR-minded fan. I guess what makes this whole thing so surreal is that I can't find a single significant mistake that DePo made. All of his moves panned out. McCourt doesn't have any reasoning to back up his decision (not that he's even tried). I was so excited when they let Tracy go because it seemed like everything was going to come together perfectly and we'd have a killer organization next year. This whole thing is really depressing. I can't imagine what it's like for long-time Dodger fans who have put up with a lot of mediocrity in the past. It just felt like we were really on the cusp of something and that it's all down the drain now.

Okay, phew, moving on. I know pretty much nothing about Kim Ng but at this point in the GM race that doesn't seem like a bad thing. And imagine how bad the Plaschkes of the world will freak out with a GIRL running the team.

2005-11-02 10:16:18
55.   molokai
Jon, how many posters on DT actually complained about Depodesta not retaining the 2004 team? I've been reading the posts everyday and it seemed that most DT posters felt the 2004 players were jettisoned for good reasons. Either being two expensive (Beltre, Finley, Lima) or we got better replacements (Cora).

My complaint was never with Depo for removing those players from the rosters. I was bummed that we could not afford Beltre, but very happy that Finley was let go, as it was obvious that his defensive skill at CF was much worse then MB who he replaced. My complaint was with how he spent what I thought was silly money (agree with Karros, flog me now) on Lowe, JD Drew, O Perez and extended Gagne and Izzy. I expected a GM like Depo to do the opposite and was surprised he acted like every other GM who has ever had the job. Other then trading LaDuca in the middle of the pennant race he did nothing that showed him to be different from any other GM. Nonetheless I was very excited about what he'd do this winter and I am bummed that I'll never find out if he had what it took to stand out from the mediocrity that pervades baseball. Must be harder then I think.

2005-11-02 10:16:50
56.   dzzrtRatt
I found another video of McCourt's GM search process:

http://tinyurl.com/mpbs

2005-11-02 10:20:51
57.   regfairfield
55 I've seen this bullpen without Gagne, and I don't like it. The two years gives the Dodgers enough time to groom Broxton or someone else to the job.

As for Izturis, who else would you have play short. Antonio Perez was already written into a platoon role, and the market for shortstops was already ridiculous. Who do you put there?

2005-11-02 10:23:30
58.   blue22
44 - Sorry, no disrespect intended. Those trades after the fact look bad, but the Indians were a very successful franchise for a good period of time. The trades were typically made from strength (Sexson was blocked by Thome, Giles by Manny/Lofton, etc.).

Trading prospects for veterans can look very bad in the long run, but if it helps you win short term, it can be considered a calculated risk.

2005-11-02 10:23:47
59.   Bob Timmermann
Kim Ng would make copy desk editors happy because they could always fit her name into any headline, unlike the pesky name of "DePodesta".

Why do I think that Kim Ng and Tommy Lasorda wouldn't mix well? I can picture Lasorda being extremely condescending.

At the pace things are going, even Dennis Gilbert as GM would be better than the presumptive frontrunner Bowden.

2005-11-02 10:24:06
60.   Jon Weisman
55 - I guess I thought maybe there might be a few anti-Depo commenters, and/or some lurkers, who would want to comment.

I agree with you that DePo is more conventional a GM than many people think.

---

I've added some small Kim Ng background in an update up top.

2005-11-02 10:25:03
61.   FirstMohican
51 - From what I remember about the press conference, it was DePodesta's leadership and communication skills that got him canned. Of course his transactions might have been a contributing factor but I haven't seen any indication that it is in fact true.

Ng worked under Evans and I don't know what Evans' approach to building a winning team, but I think it's a pretty big compliment to her that she worked under two GMs who - judging by the player turnover - had completely different visions of a baseball team.

If we don't land Epstien (and I doubt that we would) I'd rather have Ng than any other rumored GM. However, it seems to me that the fact that she's not a "big name" might hurt her more than her work with DePodesta.

2005-11-02 10:27:22
62.   Bob Timmermann
I hope Kim Ng has discovered that it's not particularly hard to hit home runs in Dodger Stadium.

It's hard to get hits, but not necessarily home runs.

2005-11-02 10:28:30
63.   Eric L
57 I said something like this a while back when someone was complaining about the Izturis extension...

1. There were no viable (or cheap) replacements at the time the extension was signed. You can probably make an argument for Perez, but I think that's about it. Maybe add Robles into the mix.

2. The market for shortstops is downright scary. When Renteria, Rollins, and Cabrera are all making 8+ million a year, Izturis is a relative bargain.

Paying Izturis $3 million a year didn't and won't cripple the team.

2005-11-02 10:30:33
64.   dzzrtRatt
53 Bite your damn tongue. That's an idea Tommy hasn't thought to propose yet.

Luckily, Karros is now on the record talking about McCourt's dysfunction. One criteria for becoming Dodger general manager is geek love for all McCourts. They are 'the brand.' They stand for 'excellence,' and they 'won't settle for anything less!'

If the McCourts think DePodesta told Theo Epstein 'lies' that would reflect anything but the lambent glow of their aura of success, they probably won't even talk to him. Their egos can't take it.

It's not for nothing that Lasorda had to debase himself in the presence of T.J. Simers. The new Dodger GM will have to be able to say, with a straight face, things like: "Hook me to a lie detector. I'll bet my lungs I'm telling the truth. I love Frank and Jamie McCourt. Set up a lie detector, and when I pass, you apologize to them for challenging my loyalty and love for them." This is the only thing the McCourts can tolerate from the people around them.

2005-11-02 10:34:10
65.   underdog
I have some new, insider information on the GM search and have posted what I know on my own blog, if anyone feels like taking a digression:

http://underdog.typepad.com/

2005-11-02 10:37:19
66.   molokai
57
That is true the bullpen was not very good without Gagne but to be honest I expect a sharp GM to be able to build a great bullpen at a moderate cost while shipping out the overpaid closer to cover harder to fill holes.
I'm probably wrong about Izzy who does have a reasonable contract at the moment and your right we had no in house replacements for him. Just seemed that we could have made a big haul by trading a gold glove SS coming off an offensive year whose upside at most is Vizquel but could just as easily become Juan Castro. I just don't think it would have taken much to replace Izzy and we would have been stronger with what we got in return for him. As it turns out it was fairly easy to replace him with Robles. Not that Robles is anything special but neither is Izzy.

However none of this matters anymore. My GM didn't do what I expected but he did enough that I wanted him to finish what his plan was.

I won't have such high hopes for our next GM. At most I hope he doesn't destroy the team and I'll no longer have the smugness that we had the smartest GM in baseball that I carried around with me after the end of 2004.

2005-11-02 10:37:23
67.   capdodger
From Theo's Press Conf. (via SoSH): One team has contacted Theo in the past 24 hours, but he will start listening to offers next week.
2005-11-02 10:38:15
68.   Bob Timmermann
65

Candidate #1 - My team's bats smell like pine tar!

2005-11-02 10:40:05
69.   gvette
61--At least you know what the philosophy of the other rumored candidates are, for good or (mostly) bad.

Other than her job survival skills, what else do we know about her?

What are her beliefs in Player Personnel?

What does she value in players?

Have you ever heard her interviewed on any subject?

How do we know she can communicate with staff and the media?

Who's style does she prefer, Brian Cashman? Evans? DePodesta?

2005-11-02 10:40:50
70.   Jon Weisman
Baseball Musings is also live blogging the Theo conference: www.baseballmusings.com
2005-11-02 10:43:05
71.   FirstMohican
69 - We also "knew" what we were going to get with Jeff Shaw.
2005-11-02 10:43:29
72.   oldbear
ESPN's caption of Theo Epstein at his press conference was this: "Contacted by Dodgers about their GM position"

When a report asked specifically at the presser if the Dodgers had contacted him, ESPN News cut away so I didnt hear his answer.

But ESPN only had two captions under Epstein. One was just stating why he was hold the press conference. The other was about the Dodgers contacting him.

I think he's Frank McCourts to lose at this point.

In addition, Epstein made clear that this move was not 'a surprise to either side'. And that each side knew for at least 2 weeks where the other stood.

I'm going to continue to believe that McCourt knew Epstein wasnt going back to Boston,and thus fired DePo.

2005-11-02 10:44:14
73.   molokai
67
That is good news since it means he sounds interested in working next year instead of taking a year off. My hope % just soared into the 25% range from 1%.
2005-11-02 10:44:47
74.   Jon Weisman
69 - See 60/update up top
2005-11-02 10:45:37
75.   Eric L
57 I've always thought the saber-friendly GMs have had no qualms in paying (or overpaying) for guys like Gagne. Injuries aside, there are less than a handful of closers on Gagne's level (Rivera, maybe Lidge, maybe K-rod, Isringhausen?).

It's in overpaying for guys like Mesa, Wickman (who was fantastic this year but may not be again), a declining Percival that I think the saber types try to stay away from.

2005-11-02 10:45:43
76.   molokai
72
You've been telling us that since day one. If your right, I'd like to buy you two beers at the next DT Dodger day.
2005-11-02 10:52:20
77.   Telemachos
54 Welcome aboard, subclub. It's always interesting to switch from a lurker to a poster. :)
2005-11-02 10:53:03
78.   oldbear
76. That'd be great but I havent been out to California since 2003 and I doubt I'll be going out there next year.

But things are brightening up I think. Its just too bad we'll have to wait until next week to find out officially.

I'm just wondering if the McCourts will interview any other candidates in between that time?

2005-11-02 10:54:59
79.   T Money
I don't have nearly enough faith in the McCourt clan to believe that they'll find a way to land Theo. It is worth noting, however, that Theo does have a sister, a screenwriter, who lives out here. (And his brother-in-law is an actor/screenwriter who wrote the current movie "Capote.") So perhaps the idea of moving to So Cal isn't anathema to him.

Even so, I don't think it's gonna happen.

2005-11-02 10:55:08
80.   Humma Kavula
72 76 78
It would explain why McCourt has kept his candidate list confidential.
2005-11-02 10:56:00
81.   bhsportsguy
It certainly sounds that if the McCourts don't hire anyone this week (and since LA Times is reporting that they have not asked for permission to interview Hart, Bowden, etc.) and that Theo said that he had been contacted by an intermediary (one of the McCourt kids LOL) and that he would interested once the GM meetings start, you have to put some stock in it.

Listening to Theo, he does appear to have something that DePosdesta never showed to the media and public, a personality.

As for the Dodgers, I am sure that Kim Ng and Roy Smith can handle the meetings, when was the last time anything happened at these meetings, they can't sign anyone for another week.

We shall see.

2005-11-02 10:57:36
82.   jasonungar05
oldbear..i'll fly you out here if you are right. LOL
2005-11-02 10:58:10
83.   capdodger
80 Maybe. It does seem like McCourt hasn't pursued anybody very hard. And then there's the issue of tamperering or the appearance thereof.
2005-11-02 10:59:17
84.   molokai
75
Who are the saber-friendly GMs your referring to that spend money on top notch closers other then Theo where it was only possible because he had a 120 million dollar budget? It is possible there are more saber-friendly GMs then I know about. Beane never did, he let Isringhausen and Foulke go as soon as they got expensive without missing a beat. Riccardi brought in Batista from the rotation and has never spent money on a top notch closer. Hunsicker traded Wagner before he could walk. Only Theo has really spent money on a closer (Foulke) until Depodesta gave Gagne that extension. It may have been the right thing to do, I was just surprised he did it.
2005-11-02 11:00:26
85.   molokai
78
Where do you live?
2005-11-02 11:06:27
86.   gcrl
kim ng would tie ed ott for the shortest name in mlb history, i believe.

ron cey (among others) comes in a close second.

2005-11-02 11:10:22
87.   Humma Kavula
83 Sure. Like everybody else, I'm navel-gazing. We just don't know anything.

I'm just saying that the crazy scenarios that bring Theo to L.A. explain one part of the process that's been confusing.

2005-11-02 11:10:53
88.   oldbear
85. Chicago. I was last in Lake Tahoe 2 falls ago. Thats a really nice spot!

81. I agree Theo Epstein does have better media presence. I also think that if he was going to take a year off and do 'social work' like Peter Gammons speculated, he would have said it bluntly in his press conference. But he didnt say that. It really seems like he wants to work next year.

2005-11-02 11:11:39
89.   fanerman
molokai,
I don't think signing Gagne was a bad thing. Gagne's not like other closers. Other closers don't bring fans the game, or keep them there until the 9th inning, adding concession sales, or bring in revenue through t-shirts and other memorobilia. I wish someone had the numbers for how much he contributes because I don't, but I'd guess that he pays for a fair chunk of his salary.

I understand that we could get a lot from him through a trade, but DePo said after re-signing Gagne, "Lots of people pitch the 9th inning, but Eric Gagne is a closer." That reads into his philosophy on closers. In Oakland they used a revolving door, but Gagne is a true bullpen ace, and they're hard to come by. Plus given DePo's propensity to trade/let go of other LA "heroes," I don't think it was a bad idea to keep the one who was actually as valuable as general consensus thought, pepper injury aside.

2005-11-02 11:11:40
90.   Bob Timmermann
In 2004 Vin Scully had a disturbingly uncomfortable interview Kim Ng where he started off wanting to ask her questions about feng shui and stuff like that. I think Vin, like a lot of men of his generation, probably did not realize how different it is for someone of Asian ancestry who was born in the U.S. as opposed to an immigrant.

Ng was polite and deftly avoided getting into the "Chinese" questions. If you have Scully's stature, you can get away with that.

2005-11-02 11:11:46
91.   blue22
84 - If you want to count 4 SABR GMs (Theo, Depo, Beane, and Ricciardi) 2 have shelled out big bucks for a closer, and one traded for one (Beane for Dotel last year).

Of course, Depo and Theo had the budget to do so, and Beane had traditionally let them go and mined new ones from the scrap heap. The Dotel acquisition last year smacked of desperation as he hadn't been able to find a reliable one.

2005-11-02 11:12:47
92.   fanerman
oldbear,
If you're right and I was old enough, I'd buy you like 10 six-packs of beers at the next DT Dodger Day. Okay maybe not that much beer.
2005-11-02 11:15:21
93.   Uncle Miltie
Can somebody copy the paragraph about Izturis from baseball prospectus?

When will Gold Gloves in the NL be announced?

2005-11-02 11:16:57
94.   crazy dumbsaint
"In Dodger Stadium it's difficult to hit home runs, so you have to adjust to that."

There's your answer on Kim Ng and stats.

"My assumption has always been that Dodger did in fact notably reduce home run numbers; that's plainly not the case."
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2678

"In the past, I've theorized that Dodger Stadium was a better park for fly ball pitchers because it reduces the number of doubles hit. That appears to be absolutely wrong, as while it does reduce the number of doubles on fly balls it does so by turning them into home runs; for the number of fly balls that become doubles, triples, and home runs combined Dodger Stadium has been neutral. By turning extra fly balls into home runs, Dodger Stadium increases the run value of a fly ball."
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/an-in-depth-look-at-dodger-stadiums-effects/

2005-11-02 11:18:01
95.   Eric L
89 Thanks for saying it better than I did.
2005-11-02 11:19:50
96.   gvette
90--The '04 team needed better Feng Shui.
Like you noted, I can only imagine Lasorda trying to communicate with her.
2005-11-02 11:20:45
97.   Bob Timmermann
Jon Saraceno (aka USA Today's columnist who looks like Rasputin) has tossed the name of Giants assistant GM Ned Coletti into the mix of candidates for the Dodgers job.
2005-11-02 11:20:50
98.   Jon Weisman
94 - Yes, I noticed that her comment on home runs at Dodger Stadium was a little off. I wouldn't be surprised that after her time under DePo, she knows better now.
2005-11-02 11:21:38
99.   blue22
94 - When is that quote from?
2005-11-02 11:22:51
100.   fanerman
93:
Player, Team 2005 2004-05 Career
Rafael Furcal, Atl 114-41-20 109-64-24 103-130-22
*Cesar Izturis, LA 109-24-9 103-46-8 102-86-9
Neifi Perez, Chi 115-35-18 112-48-21 109-243-92
Omar Vizquel, SF 108-32-11 104-52-10 102-401-54
Jack Wilson, Pit 111-38-16 109-72-28 105-132-32

Izturis is another one who followed up his GG season with an even better statistical performance, but still isn't among the very top guys in the league. Furcal had a great year, but he's never done anything remotely like this before. Vizquel has a long and distinguished career, even if the stats don't make him the second coming of Ozzie Smith, and had a good year. Jack Wilson, poor guy, is stuck in Pittsburgh and can't attract the attention that GG typically requires. Neifi Perez, for all of his faults, is a terrific defensive shortstop, and did win the GG back in 2000. I think he should get it this year, but everybody has a viable case.

The stats are Rate/FRAR/FRAA (fielding runs above replacement/average)

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-11-02 11:22:53
101.   Jon Weisman
93 - "Izturis is another one who followed up his GG season with an even better statistical performance, but still isn't among the very top guys in the league. Furcal had a great year, but he's never done anything remotely like this before. Vizquel has a long and distinguished career, even if the stats don't make him the second coming of Ozzie Smith, and had a good year. Jack Wilson, poor guy, is stuck in Pittsburgh and can't attract the attention that GG typically requires. Neifi Perez, for all of his faults, is a terrific defensive shortstop, and did win the GG back in 2000. I think he should get it this year, but everybody has a viable case."
2005-11-02 11:23:49
102.   Jon Weisman
Nuts - lost by :02
2005-11-02 11:24:06
103.   fanerman
I hope nobody cares that I copied the stats, too...
2005-11-02 11:24:55
104.   Vishal
[94] i think the ng quote was from a couple of years ago, and both of those studies have come since. note that both the writers (who are indisputably sabermetrically oriented) also initially thought that dodger stadium was a bad HR park. i'm sure that having worked with depodesta (and seen him get flyball hitters such as kent and valentin) she must know better now.
2005-11-02 11:24:57
105.   dzzrtRatt
79 Epstein has family out here? Uh-oh. If we really want him, we probably have to stop trashing the McCourts for awhile so he doesn't get the wrong idea. For my part, I hope no one has taken any of my comments of the past few days as indicating anything but my total love and loyalty to Frank McCourt.

I mean, hey, man, you don't talk to McCourt. You listen to him. The man's enlarged my mind. He's a poet-warrior in the classic sense. I mean sometimes he'll, uh, well, you'll say hello to him, right? And he'll just walk right by you, and he won't even notice you. And suddenly he'll grab you, and he'll throw you in a corner, and he'll say do you know that "if" is the middle word in life? If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you -- I mean I'm no, I can't -- I'm a little man, I'm a little man, he's, he's a great man. I should have been a pair of ragged claws
scuttling across floors of silent seas -- I mean --

2005-11-02 11:25:04
106.   Uncle Miltie
100&101- thanks

Anyone know when the NL GG's will be announced?

2005-11-02 11:25:41
107.   fanerman
100, 103
Might as well go all out... the reason they listed the stats the way they did is:
"Since the awards are as much about reputation as performance, and since a reputation usually takes time to acquire, we'll break the stats out into 2005 only, 2004 and 2005 combined, and career."
2005-11-02 11:27:20
108.   Jon Weisman
105 - LOL

106 - today, I expect.

2005-11-02 11:29:42
109.   fanerman
105 - In all seriousness, if the McCourts's (I never learned that... are you supposed to use s's or just s'?) plan was to "trade" DePo for Theo, that would be pretty clever on their part and I would be impressed. Change the face of the "brand/product" without changing the philosophy.
2005-11-02 11:33:52
110.   bhsportsguy
If they did that, (hire Theo), the theory of Lasorda being the puppetmaster would certainly lose all credibility.
2005-11-02 11:35:17
111.   Jon Weisman
Essay topic: Stripped of the hype, is Theo better than DePo?
2005-11-02 11:36:50
112.   fanerman
109 - Of course I wouldn't approve of it. I think DePo would have won LA over if he had enough time (another year or 2, certainly before his contract expired). And it still gives the impression that the McCourts don't know what they're doing and are just firing their own people faster than the French were beheading theirs, but there are at least some benefits to "trading" DePo for Theo.
2005-11-02 11:38:18
113.   Telemachos
111 I'd say no, when it comes to sheer stat-crunching. However, for this particular situation, the hype counts for everything (unfortunately). Theo's combo of hype+saberness would be a great 1-2 punch.
2005-11-02 11:39:44
114.   blue22
109/110 - Yep, that would basically dispell the notion that the front office was out of control. Firing Depo 2 years in is still controversial, but if the plan all along was to replace him with Theo, well I'll go along with that and the McCourts' get a pass.

The 49ers and Pistons have been alluded to recently. First, it was the Niners knee jerk firing of Mariucci (with Bill Walsh or Terry Donahue playing the role of Tommy Lasorda?) without a strong plan for replacing him. Dennis Erickson = Jim Bowden here.

However, if the "Theo Theory" comes to fruition, suddenly its the Pistons firing successful but controversial coach Rick Carlisle, and replacing...upgrading...to Larry Brown that is the more accurate comparison.

As a Niners fan, I hope and pray for the latter.

2005-11-02 11:39:58
115.   Uncle Miltie
So are any Dodgers deserving of a gold glove? Will any win? Predictions....

Here's mine:
C Mike Matheny
1B Derrek Lee
2B Luis Castillo
SS Rafael Furcal (unfortunately)
3B David Wright
OF Jim Edmonds
OF Andruw Jones
OF Jason Bay (can't think of anyone else)...maybe Carlos Beltran

2005-11-02 11:40:13
116.   Bob Timmermann
Can Theo turn Hee-Seop into Papi? If not, then I don't who is better.
2005-11-02 11:41:49
117.   tomb
Theo is better for LA and at worst, not much worse for the dodgers than Depo. I think the biggest question with both of htem is still whether they can make the great signing. They have both misfired a few times. But both seem to know better than to trade the farm away.
2005-11-02 11:45:06
118.   Steelyeri
111-

I think that is a great question to ask. This has been on my mind lately. Theo is probably more widely respected, largely because of his ring. He might be better than Depo at dealing with the media as well.

As far as running a team I haven't seen any evidence that makes Theo better than Depo.
I like the way Depo quickly turned the dodgers from a scrappy, small ball, Pitching and defense club to one that was molded more to his liking. Theo never really had to take such drastic measures with the bosox.

But in the end we are all rooting for Theo to get the job not because he is better than depo, but because he is better than the other options out there. Even when stripped of the hype.

2005-11-02 11:45:25
119.   Marty
McCourt: One question Theo
Epstein: shoot
McCourt: Who's our Papi?
2005-11-02 11:46:31
120.   sanchez101
114. The notre dame coaching situation last year is another of the detriot-scenario
2005-11-02 11:46:40
121.   blue22
111 - Without the hype (assuming Depo has no "hype") wouldn't he be best suited as an asst. GM?

Isn't a fundamental requirement of a GM to be that face of the franchise, to have as much college football coach recruiter-type in him as he does in the statistically oriented decision making skills?

2005-11-02 11:48:30
122.   blue22
120 - Totally. Probably more relevant/applicable to this particular situation too.
2005-11-02 11:50:15
123.   bigcpa
111 I just had this debate offline. I was about to say "Sure Theo won it all but he had Pedro/Manny/Schilling/Ortiz." Then I realized he acquired the last two. D'oh.

Tallying up the good and bad moves I do think DePo looks better. Epstein's version of THE TRADE netted far less talent than DePo's. But in this world "winning the big one" goes a lot further than "achieving a net gain of talent while preserving your core prospects."

2005-11-02 11:52:07
124.   Bob Timmermann
Bill Stoneman is the face of the Angels? How many Angels fans could pick him out of a lineup?

I don't think many GMs are all that visible if they are in small markets. I don't have the slightest clue what Dave Littlefield looks like. Or what JP Ricciardi looks like. I doubt I could even identify Brian Sabean.

And it's not like I don't watch or read much about baseball.

2005-11-02 11:58:18
125.   SMY
I posted yesterday that I don't think there's a whole lot of difference between Theo and DePo. But I bet even Plaschke would have approved of giving Edgar Renteria a 4/40m deal.
2005-11-02 12:00:31
126.   blue22
124 - I'm not sure I liked the way that my post came out. My point was, Theo seems to be a more galvanizing force, a little more charismatic than Depo had been. So if you can get someone that has similar personnel philosophies, but maybe does a bit better job in getting by-in from all involved, it seems like a good move.

Then again, that perceived credibility is the "hype" that Jon is asking us to remove from the argument. If this were a final on an exam, I'd have a big red comment asking if I really read the question.

I still think that letting Depo go was a bad move, and I would've liked to have seen his vision come to reality. However, if McCourt let him go because he thought Theo was the man he wanted, I'll give him that.

2005-11-02 12:02:28
127.   JSN
111 - I think the comparison is difficult to make. We have never seen Depo work with HIS team. His plan was definately not to become some amazing dynasty in season 2. Alot of his moves were stopgap ones intended to let him eventually make his planned moves.
2005-11-02 12:03:42
128.   Eric L
125 Just a crazy question.. Was Theo or Lucchino responsible for the Renteria deal?

I'm not looking to excuse Theo for making the deal.. just wondering if there were other influences.

2005-11-02 12:08:46
129.   dzzrtRatt
114...that would basically dispell the notion that the front office was out of control. Firing Depo 2 years in is still controversial, but if the plan all along was to replace him with Theo, well I'll go along with that and the McCourts' get a pass.

Whoah. So what was the Gillick approach, just a head-fake? If Gillick had said yes, there would be no discussion of Theo. If Tommy had convinced McCourt to fire DePo a week before he did, Gillick would've been locked up by now. The fact that they didn't even know Gillick was this close to being hired by Philly proves to me that McCourt entered into this venture with not enough information to even develop a plan.

We might end up with Theo Epstein. But from watching that press conference video, the idea that McCourt had what you and I would call a "plan" just gives McCourt way too much credit.

Here's a "plan": Jim Tracy reached a point of certainty that the Pirates' job was open, and was his for the asking. By firing McClendon when they did, the Pirates sent him the signal he was told to expect by third parties (so no tampering could be alleged). Armed with that knowledge, he went to DePo and demanded a raise and an extension, knowing he couldn't lose either way. That's a "plan."

2005-11-02 12:09:43
130.   SMY
128 To be honest, it's hard to know. As I understand it, Lucchino has a huge input on personnel decisions. But since the Red Sox basically control the media in Boston, I think it's hard to get a straight answer.

Renteria is actually my pet project. A large percentage of people in Boston HATE Renteria. Part of it is that he replaced Cabrera, part of it is that he's overpaid. Of course he's overpaid, nobody's arguing that...but he performed pretty much in line with his career averages, with the exception of his strange rise in his error totals. I think Boston fans were expecting Miguel Tejada, when it was just silly to think that. So it really irritates me when I have to listen to everyone constantly bashing him, even though I never cared one way or the other about him before.

2005-11-02 12:13:20
131.   bhsportsguy
111 - Its clear that the local media does not like the McCourts and we cannot continue to trot out Tommy to be the face of the organization. Certainly the new manager will be the daily face but I think for the McCourts, they need someone with authority from the organization to be the point person and frankly they (McCourts) need to slip in the background and let the performance of the team speak for them. Let the McCourts do their charitable, promote women in sports and build shopping and retail around Dodger Stadium but the let the baseball people run the team.

Where is our "Jerry West"?

bhsportsguy

2005-11-02 12:20:24
132.   Paul B
129 I agree, but I think I'd go a step further. To me, even if swapping Theo for Depo was the plan, it earns McCourt no pass from me. I think it's hard to argue, based on the available evidence, that Theo is anything more than (at best) marginally superior to Depo (and I have my doubts even about that). Any edge Theo has is outweighed, in my mind, by the organizational disruption that the switch is causing (not to mention the oft-cited fact that it just seems wrongheaded and unfair to cashier a guy after 20 months on the job). Thus, a move for Theo just seems like a craven-capitulation to the public (with McCourt seeking cover behind the talisman of Theo's ring) and/or further evidence of McCourt's continuing Boston fetishism. Either way, I don't like it.

That said, for the team's sake, I'd rather have Theo than most of the other candidates mentioned.

2005-11-02 12:21:10
133.   Steelyeri
131-

At this point, were just trying to avoid our "Mitch Kupchak." :)

2005-11-02 12:21:29
134.   SMY
It just occurred to me that maybe the McCourts are looking at the Red Sox ownership group, seeing their success, and trying to emulate that. Henry and Lucchino are pretty visible as far as owners go.

Maybe Jamie is trying to play the Lucchino role. Maybe that explains the constant "renovations" to Dodger Stadium.

Problem is, the Red Sox have a lot more money and marketing savvy to go about doing it, not to mention baseball experience. The McCourts just come off as clueless.

2005-11-02 12:22:08
135.   Marc Normandin
130.

You hit that one right on the head. I'm a Red Sox fan, and I did not want Renteria even before he had signed here and it was just a rumor or a thought. I took crap all season long about Renteria, and am continuing to take crap about how he is still capable of putting together great seasons. Show me one great season besides 2003, and I'll show you Renteria's next good year. The general perception in Boston is that Renteria is eventually just going to bust out the whooping stick while consuming every ball hit his way defensively. You know, because that matches his Established Performance Level.

2005-11-02 12:23:40
136.   blue22
129 - the idea that McCourt had what you and I would call a "plan" just gives McCourt way too much credit.

I'm with you. I'm not saying it was the plan, or that anything is obvious right now.

Speculation on my part, that Depo was fired because McCourt had knowledge that Theo would be available and had interest in coming here. That would be a helluva plan.

Ultimately that's why I still get the feeling that Theo goes to SD, or that he becomes a social worker, or that he grows out his hair and puts out an album (Bill Simmons' theory). I think it's a stretch that they could conceive of, and execute on a plan like that.

But it's either believe that Theo is destined for LA, or resign to the fact that it'll be the Tommy/Jimmy/Bobby show running LA.

2005-11-02 12:26:40
137.   dzzrtRatt
111 I don't care how brilliant a GM is, or what philosophy guides his decisions, there is still a lot of guesswork in that job, and a huge luck factor. Intuitive skills matter.

DePodesta might have more raw intelligence than any GM currently employed, but Epstein comes awfully close. Epstein seems, from outside appearances, to be someone who brings more of his own "heart and soul" to the job, whose instincts and intuitions are sounder, who has better people skills.

In Lucchino, Epstein had a mentor who taught him a lot about life, business and baseball from a grown-up perspective. With a mentor like that, eventually you have to move on, and that's what Theo has wisely done.

DePodesta's so-called mentor, Billy Beane, was more of a peer, and is himself a work in progress. As Moneyball demonstrated, Beane was a neurotic. DePo lacked the self-knowledge to understand that the Dodger situation was probably not a good one for him, given the new ownership, and the fact that McCourt himself was going to be flailing.

Theo's been through much more hard gravel, so he'd come here looking at McCourt with a more jaundiced eye. Despite his youth, Epstein can speak to McCourt from a position of far more authority than DePo ever could. He's won more rings than McCourt. He's won more rings than Bobby Valentine. He's halfway to Lasorda's total. That's going to be a helpful factor.

Finally, the most unmeasurable difference between them is also the most apparent. Paul DePodesta was, sadly, unlucky. A dark cloud followed too many of his personnel moves. Theo Epstein is lucky. We could some of that luck in LA.

2005-11-02 12:27:15
138.   blue22
Meanwhile, the mystery "playoff OFer who tested for steroids" has been outed (and it wasn't Podsednik!):

http://tinyurl.com/d3mwb

2005-11-02 12:30:26
139.   Fallout
126. blue22
I still think that letting Depo go was a bad move, and I would've liked to have seen his vision come to reality.

I too would have liked to see his vision come to reality. But, I do not believe that he had the skills to pull it off.

Even though Epstein has a similar philosophy as DePodesta he is a different person who has his own set of skills. They are not clones.

2005-11-02 12:31:18
140.   dzzrtRatt
Wasn't Lawton on a few wish lists around here?
2005-11-02 12:33:57
141.   bigcpa
135 As a Renteria victim via roto I'll offer a defense.

2002- 116 OPS+ (age 26)
2003- 131 OPS+ (.330, 61 XBH)
2004- 90 OPS+ (.287, 47 XBH)
AVG- 112 OPS+

Going into his 29-32 yr old seasons you could reasonably expect a 115 type player. Nomar was a 121 and 118 his last 2 years in Boston at age 29/30. Renteria's glove is rated league avg. by BPro, better than a 31 yr old Nomar. $10M is a bit pricey and you wouldn't do it again, but it does comp out with Cabrera and Rollins.

2005-11-02 12:38:07
142.   bigcpa
... I should add Past-a-Diving Jeter to that comp list as well. His age 30/31 seasons of 116 and 121 OPS+ are right there with Renteria's trailing 3 years.
2005-11-02 12:42:37
143.   fanerman
137 - I wouldn't say Theo is lucky and DePo is not. Just that Theo has been lucky and DePo has not. Not sure if Theo just happens to always be lucky. I'd be happy with either Theo or DePo. I'd rather not have fired DePo because I think eventually he would have got the credit and respect he deserves. But I think we're in capable hands with Theo.

And yes, while I would give credit to the McCourts if the plan all along was to get Theo, I still would not give them any pass. If they weathered the criticism a little longer they would have been vindicated. Now very few people have respect for them. I don't.

2005-11-02 12:44:18
144.   Fallout
Why did Boston let Cabrera walk and sign Renteria in the first place?

They are similar talents and it seems to me that you keep the one who helped you win the Division, Pennant and WS.

2005-11-02 12:46:14
145.   dzzrtRatt
Gillick takes charge in Philly, and, toward the bottom, explains why the Dodgers weren't attractive to him:

http://tinyurl.com/86kfw

2005-11-02 12:51:15
146.   SMY
144 Mostly because Cabrera can't hit. They thought they were gaining a superior offensive/similar defensive player. But I don't know if there were other factors or not.
2005-11-02 12:51:23
147.   fanerman
145 - Oi. These public computers don't have bugmenot.
2005-11-02 12:52:26
148.   bigcpa
FWIW, ESPN has the Dodgers rated 27th in their 2006 Power Rankings ahead of Cinci, Colorado and KC.
http://tinyurl.com/7tjga

Guess they assume another 1,200 DL days for next year.

2005-11-02 12:53:22
149.   Telemachos
For those without BugMeNot:

'The Los Angeles Dodgers had contacted him, as well, but Gillick felt that the Phils were much closer to achieving success.

"I think the Phillies are further along at the major league level at this point," said Gillick.'

2005-11-02 12:54:59
150.   Xeifrank
So who can we send to LAX to scout the incoming flights from Boston? vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-11-02 12:55:06
151.   fanerman
150 - So am I just a devout Dodger fan when I say player-wise/market-wise/everything except the owners-wise I'd rather be GM for the Dodgers than the Phillies?
2005-11-02 12:56:22
152.   fanerman
In 151, I meant 149 not 150, obviously.
2005-11-02 12:57:20
153.   Xeifrank
What happens when Jeff Kent demands a trade prior to spring training? vr, Xei
2005-11-02 13:00:08
154.   Improbable88
153 - Tell him, "tough!"

Unless, of course, we're re-building. Let's hope we tell him, "tough."

2005-11-02 13:00:36
155.   SMY
153 Bowden trades him to Boston for Alex Cora and Gabe Kapler.
2005-11-02 13:00:47
156.   Jon Weisman
149 - You've got to like a GM who admits that he wants to do the least amount of work.
2005-11-02 13:01:36
157.   bigcpa
153 Plenty here thought DePo might deal him without being asked. Boston and NY could use him. Kent, Bradley, prospects for AROD. Now THAT would be funny.
2005-11-02 13:02:06
158.   natepurcell
156

gillick doesnt have much time yet, he wants a winner before his time is up.

as for the theo theory. i want to believe it and i want it to come true! i mean, if the narccato prophecy can come true, the theo theory can come true!

2005-11-02 13:04:28
159.   Paul B
144 It's a good question, and to me shows why it can be hard to evaluate a GM. As background, I'd say it's clear that, offensively, Renteria is a superior player. So here are some possibilities:

1) Larry Lucchino said to do it, so Epstein did it.

2) Epstein recognized that Renteria was superior to Cabrera, knew that 2003 (and to a lesser extent 2002) was a wild statistical outlier, but also recognized that the Red Sox had the coin to overpay for a better product.

3) In a shocking violation of all things sabremetric, Epstein (a) keyed in on Renteria's one outstanding year (and one good year); (b) disregarded six complete major league seasons of an OPS+ below 100; (c) thought that was representative of Edgar's true talent level; and (d) paid him accordingly.

We'll never know, but it obviously makes a huge difference when we're thinking about whether we'd want him running our team.

2005-11-02 13:08:22
160.   fanerman
I doubt we trade Kent because McCourt wants to win something in 2006.

158 - I've never asked God for anything Dodgers-related but I'm thinking of asking for Theo Epstein. Because the thought of the other options gives me nightmares.

2005-11-02 13:10:32
161.   dzzrtRatt
159 Not being an obsessive AL East fan, I just don't the facts. Did Epstein have any other options? Is Renteria holding back some other good SS in Pawtucket? Could he have gotten Vizquel for what the Giants paid him? It seems like the SS's available via FA were Renteria, Cabrera, Eckstein and Vizquel. I also seem to recall the Giants landed on Vizquel pretty early in the off-season.

Saber-optimal, and market realities will always conflict. Thus evaluating a GM on pure sabermetric grounds tells only part of the story, and part of what will distinguish one saber-GM from another is how well they make those calls. And they'll all make mistakes.

2005-11-02 13:10:41
162.   bhsportsguy
149 - Do you agree with his statement, let's take a look
C - Lieberthal - Navarro - Phillies Short Term
1b - Thome/Howard - Choi/? - Phillies although Howard was given the opportunity to play everyday despite horrible platoon numbers
2b - Utley - Kent - not even but not horrible
SS - Rollins - Robles/Izzy - Phils
3b - Bell - Aybar/Perez - I like our combo because Bell isn't worth 4.5.
LF - Burrell - Werth - Phils
CF - Lofton - Drew/Bradley - if Drew is healthy, LA
RF - Abreau - ? - Phils
SP - Lots of injuries and question marks but the Dodgers have a better chance of being best in their division.
RP - If Wagner resigns - Phils until we see how Gagne is in Spring training
Manager - Phils have one, we don't.

Minors - with Howard and Utley, best players are up already, Dodgers best may be a year away.

So, the Phils maybe closer but they have Atlanta, Mets and Florida to deal with. If the Mets get Manny and Furcal, well....

bhsportsguy

2005-11-02 13:12:37
163.   blue22
161 - Nomar was available too. :-)
2005-11-02 13:13:32
164.   SMY
From Neyer's chat:

Tim(LA, CA): what do you think of the Dodgers firing DePodesta? Personally, I like it. How does a GM choose Drew over Beltre? Beltre made it clear he wanted to be a Dodger and the money he got from Seattle wasn't that much more than whet Drew got.

Rob Neyer: (4:09 PM ET ) Uh, Tim? Tim, are you there? Did you happen to notice Beltre's numbers with the Mariners this year?

2005-11-02 13:19:37
165.   fanerman
164 - Haha :-). I wish he'd make a comment defending DePo though.
2005-11-02 13:20:14
166.   Johnson
148 bigcpa

So is 1200 DL-days an actual count or just a number you threw out there? Sadly, it's actually...plausible.

2005-11-02 13:20:21
167.   Fallout
158. natepurcell
We'll never know, but it obviously makes a huge difference when we're thinking about whether we'd want him running our team.

That's my point. I never understood why he did that.

2005-11-02 13:21:20
168.   natepurcell
does anyone know the contract status of logan white/kim ng/roy smith/terry collins?
2005-11-02 13:22:02
169.   bigcpa
166 I know it's 4 digits but I don't have the precise figure. It's more of a symbol anyway since it includes Bako, Valentin, Wunsch etc.
2005-11-02 13:22:34
170.   SMY
165 He did:

Zach ( San Diego): Signing Beltre would have been just as stupid as signing Drew. DePodesta would have been wrong either way. Have you ever been critical of a "moneyball" guy? Did you question the Lowes signing( I think you did)? Afterall, you did pick them to win the West.

Rob Neyer: (4:18 PM ET ) I did question the signing of Lowe, and I did pick the Dodgers to win the West. And they might have, if not for the injuries that knocked out J.D. Drew, Milton Bradley, and Eric Gagne. I'm not saying DePodesta had a great year; he probably did not. But this team was exceptionally unlucky, and I think firing DePo was foolish.

2005-11-02 13:22:38
171.   bigcpa
165 Here's Neyer's DePo defense...

"...I'm not saying DePodesta had a great year; he probably did not. But this team was exceptionally unlucky, and I think firing DePo was foolish."

2005-11-02 13:22:56
172.   bigcpa
Darn you SMY!
2005-11-02 13:23:01
173.   Uncle Miltie
156- Gillick has always been a vulture. He goes into good situations where he can take credit for the previous regime's work. He's also very closeminded, in that everything has to be done his away (the "traditional" way).
2005-11-02 13:24:51
174.   fanerman
170, 171 - Thanks.

Now what's Theo's email? Maybe we can "persuade" him to take the Dodgers job.

2005-11-02 13:29:57
175.   DXMachina
161 Is Renteria holding back some other good SS in Pawtucket?

This I can answer. Nope, nobody, at least not at AAA. They do have Hanley Ramirez at AA, but he didn't have a great year.

2005-11-02 13:30:19
176.   molokai
If Theo is really Depo's friend he'll let the Dodgers twist in the wind until no one else is available and then he'll say no thanks. That is what I'd do but I stick up for my friends and am very revenge minded.
2005-11-02 13:32:33
177.   molokai
Gillick made a wise decision.
2005-11-02 13:33:16
178.   fanerman
176 - Note to self: Never get on molokai's bad side.
2005-11-02 13:34:07
179.   capdodger
176 He could also take the job, and hire DePo as his assistant.
2005-11-02 13:35:27
180.   Marty
157 But AROD has a gambling problem apparently. He doesn't pass the character test.
2005-11-02 13:35:35
181.   fanerman
179 - Best case scenario.
2005-11-02 13:36:51
182.   SMY
179 Or hire DePo as manager. That would blow people's minds.
2005-11-02 13:38:33
183.   mob
Is the GM search really on!?!? Most news reports do not indicate that the Dodgers have asked permission to talk to Bowden (a viable candidate) or Hart. And there is no evidence that Frank or Tommy or Jaime is even on the phone.

I love the Dodgers, was born in Brooklyn and moved here before they did. But they are a PR fiasco right now. They need to get in the face of the media and let their fans know what they are doing! It feels if as they have no sense of urgency and yet as fans without a GM or Manager it feels like a rudderless ship. Who will rep them at meetings next week? Who is an agent or another team suppose to call??? Who is taking control? Is Tommy involved? Is is Kim Ng??? Keep us informed!

Answer to your question. Seems unlikely & improbable to pursue horses that have gotten out of the barn but wouldn't a Beltre-Isturis-Cora-Kent infield be both a defensive and offensive upgrade?

2005-11-02 13:39:46
184.   brandesh
182 - He should have hired himself as manager about mid-season last year.
2005-11-02 13:40:22
185.   capdodger
182 Do you think he'd wear LoDuca's number?
2005-11-02 13:40:39
186.   Marty
Molokai, please list all of your friends. I wanna stay on their good side :)
2005-11-02 13:41:51
187.   natepurcell
Is the GM search really on!?!? Most news reports do not indicate that the Dodgers have asked permission to talk to Bowden (a viable candidate) or Hart. And there is no evidence that Frank or Tommy or Jaime is even on the phone.

uhhh, thats a good thing.

2005-11-02 13:42:16
188.   capdodger
183 Seems unlikely & improbable to pursue horses that have gotten out of the barn but wouldn't a Beltre-Isturis-Cora-Kent infield be both a defensive and offensive upgrade?

Explain please...

2005-11-02 13:43:13
189.   socalcardfan
I haven't been around for awhile but wanted to add to the Renteria discussion.

Theo may have thought Renteria would take advantage of Fenway the way Jody Reed did, for example, but peppering doubles off the Green Monster.

It turns out his road batting average was about twenty points higher than his home batting average but he did more doubles at home, 22 vs 14 on the road.

I expect him to show an improvement next year.

2005-11-02 13:43:34
190.   fanerman
183 - Defense maybe. Offense clearly no.

3B - Didn't Dodger third basemen outperform Beltre last year?
2B - Cora will be MUCH worse than Kent offensively.
1B - Kent isn't much better than Choi/Saenz was offensively.
SS - Izturis is of course, a push.

Plus Aybar, Perez, and Choi are all still here.

2005-11-02 13:44:09
191.   ryu
DePo is kind of like Lisa Simpson. For some reason people in American don't like/trust people who are smarter than them, and call them names like "geek" or "computer nerd".
2005-11-02 13:46:54
192.   SMY
185 Maybe he'd wear 666. Or something with a decimal point. 0.16. Or maybe the symbol for pi.

I love the Dodgers, was born in Brooklyn and moved here before they did. But they are a PR fiasco right now. They need to get in the face of the media and let their fans know what they are doing!

That's interesting, I thought DePo was the source of the "communications problems." What a shock.

2005-11-02 13:49:42
193.   Marty
Please never mention Jody Reed again.
2005-11-02 13:50:16
194.   blue22
185 - Can they get "3.141592654" to fit on a jersey?
2005-11-02 13:50:51
195.   SMY
189 You are right, he probably will improve next year, but still won't live up to the ridiculous expectations a lot of Red Sox fans have. Which is too bad, I feel bad for him.
2005-11-02 13:51:13
196.   blue22
190 - Basically boils down to a "Cora vs. Choi" argument.
2005-11-02 13:55:36
197.   capdodger
194 I think he'd just go with the greek letter. There's no roundoff error that way.
2005-11-02 13:56:30
198.   natepurcell
i like this infield the best:
wakes up in the year 2009, turns on dodger game, see this infield

3b laroche
ss guzman
2b dewitt
1b loney
c martin

2005-11-02 13:57:53
199.   bhsportsguy
Not sure if everyone has seen this but the OF on an AL playoff club who tested positive for abusing the MLB drug policy is superstar Matt Lawton. He has been suspended for 10 days, beginning next year.

At least the Dodgers did not pick him up at trade deadline.

2005-11-02 13:57:56
200.   fanerman
198 - Still haven't given up on Guzman at SS? His range is okay, right? It's his throwing? That sounds like something that could be fixed with hard work.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-11-02 13:58:47
201.   Paul B
195 Really? You are a generous soul, I think. Renteria parlayed one exceptional season into a 40 million dollar contract with the reigning world champions and performed within reasonable expectations. I guess I'm not feeling his pain...
2005-11-02 13:58:52
202.   capdodger
196 Which a special case of the "Moneyball" vs "Smallball" argument.
2005-11-02 13:59:20
203.   socalcardfan
195 Those of us who root for the Cardinals are pretty happy with the way the great shortstop swap ended up, too.

We got the cheapest guy in Eckstein who had, arguably, the best year of those involved.

2005-11-02 13:59:31
204.   capdodger
196 Which is a special case of the "Moneyball" vs "Smallball" argument.

Silly verbs...

2005-11-02 14:00:10
205.   natepurcell
Still haven't given up on Guzman at SS? His range is okay, right? It's his throwing? That sounds like something that could be fixed with hard work.

just inconsistency, with glove and throws. his range is fine and with loney at 1b, that will help a lot in picking off errant throws. and yes, the dream still lives on!

2005-11-02 14:00:10
206.   slackfarmer
One thing that really surpises me is that many Depo fans and most posters on this blog have bought hook-line-and-sinker the Plaschke-esque notion that Depo is bad at PR. Just because he's smart and less of a windbag that Tommy doesn't mean he can't hold his own dealing with the public.

In every interview, press conference, etc. I've seen he carries himself well and is very articulate. Also, compare his classy statement after being fired to McCourt's bumbling press conference. The PR problems of this club rest at the feet of the McCourts, not Depo.

2005-11-02 14:01:29
207.   DodgerBlueBruce
169 According to ESPN "The Dodgers lost 953 games to injury, not counting nagging things that cost them two or three games. These losses represented the loss of almost 20 million dollars in salary, and approximately 95.68 runs. This doesn't count Darren Dreifort, which takes another 162 days and 5 million dollars away from the Dodgers."
2005-11-02 14:06:30
208.   natepurcell
okay this was posted on another dodger message board about kim ng. ill post it here.

credit thurston fan for the info:

-She majored in Economics
-She worked 4 years under Brian Cashman as the assistant GM of the Yankees
-She's worked 7-8 years as an assistant GM, also working under Dan Evans and Paul Depodesta
-She has earned the respect from all 3 men
-She worked as the director of waivers and player records for the American League
-She's apparently a very tough negotiator and does a lot of the work on player contracts (she has a lot of experience with arbitration cases and player contracts)
-She won her first arbitration case (which happened to be against Bora$$)
-For a brief period, she was the Dodgers farm director

Some quotes:
"Some people may underestimate Kim," says Dodger GM Paul DePodesta, "but it will only happen once."

"Any success I had, Kim shared in equally," says Cashman. "Any positive contribution—or negative—we were hand in hand."

Evans says. "For instance, Kim had to learn to deliver bad news to players who were traded, sent down, or let go while they were out of town.'' She's a good communicator

Evans was criticized for refusing to sacrifice his tradable players to give the roster pop. "A lot of people are into gratification now," Ng says. "They want the major-league team to win. We were able to balance the tightrope pretty well. We contended each year. And we got to the play-offs this past year while achieving some of the goals Dan had set."

From Depodesta:
She's "bright, dedicated, loyal, and tough." and "strong-minded, composed, and fearless"

Ng is seen as being more of a presence now than she was under Evans, her straight-ahead style having impressed those who work closely with her. Ng also wonders if it's a matter of perception. While Evans was definitely her mentor, she shares similarities with DePodesta, who is a quiet, computer-savvy Harvard economics grad even younger—by four years—than she is. "Because we were together so long, when people saw me and Dan they'd say, 'Dependent,'" Ng says. "When they see me and Paul they say, 'Independent.'"

"All that Kim needs is an owner/organization that is open-minded enough to hire her," says DePodesta. "She is as prepared for the role as many of the candidates out there."

Praise from Bora$$:
"My assumption is that Kim is advancing into that core level of skills, like player analysis," says Scott Boras, who says he and Ng have a good relationship because "she's always prepared and she knows I am, too." If he were advising her, he says, he would emphasize that a number of GMs haven't played the game. They have combined brain power and information from a field-tested staff. "If they can do it," Boras says, "why can't Kim Ng?"

Ng on becoming a GM:
"A lot of things go into being a GM," she says. Talent evaluation. Managing people. Foresight. Leadership. The ability to listen. "Most important," says Ng, "you have to have the courage to do the right thing. The scrutiny can be brutal. I've seen what it's like. You have to love your job to go through all that."

2005-11-02 14:07:25
209.   Paul B
207 I think that's alow figure. The ESPN team report from October 1 states: "Plagued by injuries all season, the Dodgers enter the season's final weekend with 1,156 combined games on the disabled list, more than any season in the last 20 years."
2005-11-02 14:09:48
210.   dzzrtRatt
183 A picky rant: The name of the president of the Dodgers and the wife of the owner is Jamie McCourt. She show up here frequently as Jaime McCourt. Until recently, Jaime was almost exclusively a man's name: Jaime Jarrin. Jaime Robbie Robertson. Nowadays, you see a lot of actresses and models pop up with that name, i.e. Jaime Pressly. But not Mrs. McCourt. She's J-A-M-I-E.
2005-11-02 14:11:49
211.   regfairfield
207 Did you really get that for ESPN, because I wrote that exact sentence.
2005-11-02 14:14:35
212.   Penarol1916
210. Looks like someone really hates typos.

206. You are supposing that PR is entirely made up of being articulate and dealing with the public. Being good at PR has very little to do with that, it's all about being able to manipulate your public image in a positive way, which he was obviously not very good at.

2005-11-02 14:15:59
213.   molokai
208
Great stuff.

210
I didn't know Robbie Robertson's 1st name was Jaime. Thanks for clearing up all the confusion.

2005-11-02 14:16:18
214.   fanerman
212 - I wouldn't go that far. The media never gave him a chance. Not one. He would have won them over with Dodger success but he won't be around for that.
2005-11-02 14:16:23
215.   bigcpa
207 So I imagine the number I heard was 1,115 including Dreifort.

206 Well said. As I recall DePo spent a few innings in the booth with Vinny the weekend of THE TRADE. He did another 2 innings with Vinny the last week of the season. Can anyone think of comparable efforts by other GM's to get the message out?

2005-11-02 14:17:15
216.   blue22
207 - Credit where credit is due:

http://tinyurl.com/98m28

2005-11-02 14:17:23
217.   Marty
I just saw an article on a three-way trade between Boston-Arizona-Anaheim

Anaheim gets Manny Ramirez
Boston gets Glaus from Arizona, Erstad and a prospect from Anaheim.
Arizona gets "combination of players and prospects" from Anaheim

2005-11-02 14:17:31
218.   DodgerBlueBruce
211 My apologies regfairfield; upon further review data was obtained from ESPN, not the text. My bad, I only saved a portion of a hard copy. Don't remember where I originally got it. Nice work though, good enough that I still have it.
2005-11-02 14:17:56
219.   Sushirabbit
182 & 185
I know I am late but, that would be perfect and, Depo at the press conference could, with a straight face, say, "I really need a True Blue man as my bench coach," and look teary eyed over at Lasorda, "Tommy?"
2005-11-02 14:19:09
220.   Marty
217 Continued. I should say "possible" trade. It's not a done deal
2005-11-02 14:19:48
221.   King of the Hobos
NL Gold Gloves are out. Unsurprisingly, no Dodgers won. Furcal didn't win either (Vyzquel did). No big surprises really
2005-11-02 14:20:02
222.   regfairfield
No problem, I was more concerned that ESPN stole my work.
2005-11-02 14:21:16
223.   blue22
217 - So did Byrnes have this all worked out before he left Boston?

I've heard that Boston would want Santana and Kotchman from the Angels. I would assume that they would instead go to AZ.

2005-11-02 14:22:28
224.   Uncle Miltie
Gold gloves are out
First my predictions
C Mike Matheny
1B Derrek Lee
2B Luis Castillo
SS Rafael Furcal
3B David Wright
OF Jim Edmonds
OF Andruw Jones
OF Jason Bay

The winners
C Mike Matheny
1B Derrek Lee
2B Luis Castillo
SS Omar Vizquel
3B Mike Lowell
OF Andruw Jones
OF Jim Edmonds
OF Bobby Abreu

So who didn't deserve it:
Vizquel, Lowell, Jones, Abreu

The award has become meaningless. Why not call it the best hitter/fielding percentage award

2005-11-02 14:24:12
225.   fanerman
The award's been meaningless for quite some time. I don't really care that much. Let the writers vote for who they want.
2005-11-02 14:25:24
226.   atg12
570 AM, Steve Hartman said (per ex-Dodger sources he talked to) that Jamie McCourt is pushing very hard for Ng to be the next GM (to break down another barrier for women, etc.)
2005-11-02 14:26:36
227.   molokai
217
Man I hope not. If Arizona gets their hands on prospects like Wood and Kendrick to go along with Quentin and Drew and the unsigned Upton they are going to be a handfull. Hopefully it will be something along the line of Aybar/Callaspo/Mathis. Would be interested to know what prospects were talking about.

Hard to see Manny playing for Scoscia but he's suppossed to be tight with Vlady.

They probably already just nabbed the smartest GM in our division.

2005-11-02 14:26:49
228.   blue22
226 - She's got one thing going for her.

She's ABB (Anybody But Bowden)

2005-11-02 14:27:43
229.   Colorado Blue
The best print I've seen from the MSM so far... Dayn Perry's "Top Off-season Storylines":

As unpalatable as Dodger Nation may have found erstwhile GM Paul DePodesta, do you really want the dim-witted likes of Bill Plaschke running the team?

2005-11-02 14:27:45
230.   Sushirabbit
For my money Derrik Lee deserved the gold glove. He's inspring at 1B. Olerud-esque
2005-11-02 14:28:08
231.   Humma Kavula
217 220

Holy cow, Theo really is gone from Boston, isn't he?

Somewhere, Larry Lucchino is chuckling, "We fleeced them of Glaus!"

2005-11-02 14:28:23
232.   molokai
224
Lowell hardly fits you comment. When BP did the breakdown today they said they would be okay if Lowell won. Everyone keeps saying how Edmunds is overrated but the BP fielding metrics still show him the class of centerfield.
2005-11-02 14:28:29
233.   fanerman
227 - The one thing that Arizona had going for us was a GM handing out massive amounts of money to Green and Glaus. Now they will be very scary.

226 - I'd still prefer Theo but what do I know. I'd take Ng in a heartbeat over any other candidate aside from Theo.

2005-11-02 14:33:01
234.   slackfarmer
212 I agree that being articulate in press conferences is only part of good PR. But along the lines of the comments of 214 and 215, the GM is only part of the PR equation.

The local (mainstream) press was hostile to McCourt from the day he bought the club and hostile to Depo from the day he was hired. So the club was starting off in a hole to begin, but it was the McCourts with their constant firings and bumbling public appearances that dug the hole deeper.

2005-11-02 14:33:41
235.   Uncle Miltie
232- I never said that Edmonds didn't deserve it. Jones is the one who didn't deserve it. You're right about Lowell, I just thought that David Bell deserved it.
2005-11-02 14:34:09
236.   molokai
If that trade comes down we could see a lineup of:
Kotchman
Kennedy
Cabrera
McPherson
Manny
G Anderson
Vlady
Molina-free agent so maybe Jose. Did anyone see the defensive numbers posted by BP on Jose and Yadier this year. Very impressive

If Kotchman and McPherson can deliver on the hype that would be one kick butt lineup.

2005-11-02 14:35:52
237.   molokai
235
I know, I just threw in the Edmunds comments cause his defensive numbers are all over the chart. The BP metrics still show him as dominant but other metrics show him as nothing special. Still showing that defense must be the hardest thing to measure in baseball.
2005-11-02 14:37:24
238.   Marty
Yes, it will be interesting to see if that trade goes through. It sounds like it may gut the Angel's farm. Would Stoneman really do that? It could be another Mo Vaughn scenario for them.
2005-11-02 14:37:36
239.   slackfarmer
230 Not only did D. Lee deserve the GG, he deserves the MVP. He had a monster year -- too bad it was wasted on the cubbies.
2005-11-02 14:37:45
240.   SMY
Did Mike Lowell even play this year? I don't remember him doing...anything.
2005-11-02 14:37:49
241.   SMY
Did Mike Lowell even play this year? I don't remember him doing...anything.
2005-11-02 14:38:21
242.   Mark
Epstein is not coming to LA. Quit getting your hopes up, people.
2005-11-02 14:38:29
243.   natepurcell
who are the prospects the angels are trading?
2005-11-02 14:38:42
244.   Marty
236 Kotchman and McPherson may be some of the players sent out.
2005-11-02 14:38:48
245.   das411
HAHAHAHA, my vote is for #3:

http://www.yard-work.org/?p=439

240 - Mike Lowell singlehandedly torpedoed the Orioles' playoff run

2005-11-02 14:40:22
246.   Xeifrank
Depo and Theo should open their own GM training academy. Heck, I'd sign up for a few of the classes if they were offered online. :) vr, Xei
2005-11-02 14:40:31
247.   Marty
Nate, no prospect names were mentioned that I saw. It probably won't happen, at least exactly like that. These kinds of trade talks happen a lot this time of year.

Here's the story I read:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9900906/

2005-11-02 14:40:46
248.   blue22
236 - Don't the Angels have to give up somebody to get Manny?

If it's not Kotch or MacPherson, it's Kendrick or Wood (which would be much more to give up).

2005-11-02 14:42:30
249.   Steve
Tim Brown must vote for Gold Gloves.
2005-11-02 14:43:10
250.   Xeifrank
Did I miss any J.Alba chatter today? Much more appealing than TV/Movie chatter. Of course with the JT/PD firings, this board has become even more interesting than during the regular season. vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-11-02 14:44:00
251.   Bob Timmermann
Writers don't vote for the Golden Glove, the managers and coaches do.
2005-11-02 14:44:52
252.   natepurcell
id rather have them give up kendrick and wood (to boston NOT arizona) then kotch and macpherson.

giving up kendrick and wood would hurt them more.

2005-11-02 14:45:36
253.   fanerman
Any deal making AZ better is bad. I'd rather the Angels stay good than Arizona to get good...
2005-11-02 14:46:11
254.   sanchez101
i like the idea of Ng. For a asian woman to be a GM, she would have to be overly qualified in the same way that the first black MLB player had to be good. If she was a white man, she would probably be a GM by now, you can think of her as an undervalued commodity, which is as "moneyball" as you can be. My hope is that if Theo Epstien wisely refuses this job, that it goes to Ng. Plus, it would be much harder for Plascke et al. to berate Ng without looking like sexist/racist pigs; they arent clever enough to pull it off.
2005-11-02 14:46:20
255.   Steve
Tim Brown must have told Jim Tracy who to vote for.
2005-11-02 14:48:10
256.   Steve
Though it seems like Tracy would have voted for Mike Edwards at third.
2005-11-02 14:48:10
257.   natepurcell
i think theo and kim would form a great GM+assistant GM combo. maker Orel pitching coach and give valentin the manager job to appease the fans of the "dodger way".

it all works out in the end.

2005-11-02 14:48:54
258.   Bob Timmermann
The managers and coaches are also not allowed to vote for their own players.
2005-11-02 14:49:33
259.   King of the Hobos
As best I can tell, this is all from a "report" that Mike DiGiovanna made in the Times today. Why are we putting so much validity into this rumor, when Boston doesn't even have a GM? (Lucchino or not)
2005-11-02 14:50:11
260.   sanchez101
I cant imagine Manny lasting that long in Anaheim. Besides his usuall antics, Hatcher would go nuts watching his patient-laid back hitting approach and try to change him.
2005-11-02 14:51:12
261.   socalcardfan
Here's a scary thought to consider: McCourt asks Washington for permission to talk to Bowden, hires him but is asked for compensation in the form of taking on the contracts of Guzman and Castilla.
2005-11-02 14:51:12
262.   Steve
Jim Tracy works for Pittsburgh now!
2005-11-02 14:52:22
263.   bhsportsguy
248 - Being this is "Dodger Thoughts" I don't want to get to far off topic with Angel talk but where does Manny play, I suppose as part of the deal they could trade either Erstad or Finley but if they can't, they have nearly 70 million guaranteed to 1b, 2b, SS, LF, CF, RF, 3 pitchers, not counting arbitration raises to Lackey, K-Rod, Shields, Figgins, etc. Are the Angels really going to be a 105 million dollar payroll. Not counting the horrendous outfield defense and dealing with the occasional Manny being Manny crap. Do you Vlad acting like Ortiz and supporting Manny.
I hold to my original thought, the Angels won't sign anyone and won't trade for anyone unless they get some salary relief. At some point in December, Stoneman and Scioscia will say that they did not want to break up a sucessful club and they will deal with their needs internally. There will be some rumbling in the press but not nearly like it would be if the Dodgers don't do anything.
2005-11-02 14:52:31
264.   Steve
Now we know why he left -- so he could vote for Edwards and Repko in the Gold Glove voting.
2005-11-02 14:52:31
265.   Marty
259 I didn't mean to put much validity in it. Just thought it was interesting and worth stirring the pot.
2005-11-02 14:53:36
266.   natepurcell
what future infield would you take?

dodgers:

C- russ martin
3b- andy laroche
ss- joel guzman
2b- blake dewitt
1b- james loney

or

angels:
C- Jeff mathis
3b- dallas macpherson
ss- brandon wood
2b- howie kendrick
1b- casey kotchman

2005-11-02 14:53:44
267.   molokai
258
Because the alternative is GM speculation and we've spent days on that and we are no closer to a resolution then when black friday happened.
2005-11-02 14:55:17
268.   Uncle Miltie
Breaking News:
Manager Jim Tracy's Gold Glove votes have been leaked
National League
C Paul Lo Duca
1B Jason Phillips
2B Craig Biggio
SS Oscar Robles
3B Mike Edwards
OF Dave Roberts
OF Jason Repko
American League
C Jason Varitek
1B Darrin Erstad
2B Alex Cora
SS Derek Jeter
3B Adrian Beltre
OF Scott Podsednik
OF Nook Logan
OF Joey Gathright
OF Juan Encarnacion
2005-11-02 14:56:29
269.   sanchez101
Just a thought; McCourt claims he has high standards in his press conference, how does Bowden fit these supposed "high standards", did he ever win anything in Cinncinnati?
2005-11-02 14:56:45
270.   King of the Hobos
Here's all the "A" players. Giovanni Carrara is an "A" player. Cruz and Saenz are not. Weaver is the only other Dodger FA who managed "A" status
2005-11-02 14:57:14
271.   King of the Hobos
270 The link might help

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-11-01-player-rankings.htm

2005-11-02 14:57:59
272.   Uncle Miltie
Bob- I forgot about that
NL
1B Shawn Green
SS Jack Wilson
3B Pedro Feliz
OF Juan Encarnacion (should be in the NL part)
2005-11-02 14:58:43
273.   molokai
266
I'll take the Angels group. I think Kotchman / Kendrick / Wood will all become very special players.
2005-11-02 15:01:23
274.   natepurcell
i would probably take the angels group as well.
2005-11-02 15:01:51
275.   gvette
254--"If she was a white man, she would probably be a GM by now..."

And your source for that is...?

2005-11-02 15:02:07
276.   molokai
Carrera is an "A" player but Saenz isn't! That really screws Carrera but it should help Saenz get an AL DH job at a decent salary. This guy needs a big payday cause he's been playing for peanuts by baseball standards and he doesn't have much time left.
2005-11-02 15:03:54
277.   SMY
Eric Karros has a podcast on ESPN.com. It's Insider, though.
2005-11-02 15:04:23
278.   sanchez101
266. It pains me, but i would give the angels the edge;
c - martin should be considerably better than Mathis
3B - Laroche will probably be better than McPherson who I was never high on because of age/context, and McPherson is a terrible fielder who should be playing first
SS - Im one of the few that think Guzman can handle short, and he has similar power potential to Wood, so i guess this is pretty close
2B - Dewitt plays 3B now, so i doubt would be much on defense, i might rather have Denker. I love Kendrick though, so either way I think Kendrick would be better
1B - You have to give Kotchman the edge here, although if Loney ever starts hitting for power its pretty close. But Kotchman has a significant edge.

so, SS is a draw, but the advantages ANAHEIM has a 1B and 2B outwiegh the advantages Los Angeles has at C and 3B.

2005-11-02 15:06:01
279.   Marty
Hilarious Lasorda sendup from Yard Work:
http://www.yard-work.org/?p=440
2005-11-02 15:07:48
280.   sanchez101
275. She has the same or better credentials than Depodesta had, and is 4 years older with more front office experience. And she has worked two premier, high-profile organizations, and both Depodesta and Cashman, two GM I think highly of, speak highly of Ng.
2005-11-02 15:09:01
281.   Steve
275 - Bill Singer
2005-11-02 15:09:04
282.   Kayaker7
268 I thought Encarnacion was with the Marlins, in the NL. Was there some trade that I was not aware of?
2005-11-02 15:09:49
283.   natepurcell
i dont think the advatange at 1b is that great for the angels. I mean, loney and kotchman both project to be very similar types of players. its just, who will develop power? recently, both players have shown signs of devloping power.

i would take laroche over Macpherson at 3b. Laroche is just a natural 3b where Dallas is glaus like in his stature and will probably be moved soon due to poor footwork and size.

i would take wood over guzman. not because of the bat, because i think both will mash in the bigs, but because i think wood has a better chance of staying at SS

at 2b, i would take kendrick over dewitt right now. But, dewitt has been practicing a lot at 2b during dodgers instructional league, so we will see if it becomes a permenant move next season.

at catcher, i would give Martin the nod becasuse of the superior defensive skills and On base skills. he might never develop extremem power, but he could have a lo duca spike year of 20+ homeruns.

2005-11-02 15:11:48
284.   sanchez101
283-are they really thinking of moving Dewitt to second? I heard rumors that they might, but then where does he play next season, assuming Denker doesnt also move.
2005-11-02 15:13:45
285.   Uncle Miltie
282- see post 272
2005-11-02 15:13:59
286.   gvette
280--Do you personally know if she has applied for any GM positions and been turned down?

If so, several of us who post on this board are lawyers and would love to talk to her.

If you don't have any such knowledge, to play the "race card" is irresponsible.

2005-11-02 15:15:01
287.   Bob Timmermann
"If she was a white man, she would probably be a GM by now..."

The problem with that statement is that it should be "were" instead of "was".

2005-11-02 15:15:42
288.   molokai
278
With the Angels you can flip it any number of ways. You could dump McPherson and move Wood to 3b and have Aybar at SS. Or you could move further down the chain where they have another nice group of middle infielders. Plus you didn't even mention Kendry Morales who can also plug into 1st. They are simply loaded in the infield but our edge is in our pitching and Matt Kemp. If we can keep 1/2 our arms from blowing out we will make up the difference. E Jackson/Billingsly/Miller/Kuo/Broxton/Hochevar/
Orenduff/Juarez/Orlando Rod/Tiffany/Megrew/Elbert the list just goes on and on and the Angels have nothing to match it.
2005-11-02 15:16:26
289.   natepurcell
are they really thinking of moving Dewitt to second? I heard rumors that they might, but then where does he play next season, assuming Denker doesnt also move.

i converse a lot with a person who is a close friend of the dewitt family and he lets me know from time to time the info going on with dewitt. From him, he said they are thinking about it. they see that laroche could be a permenant fixture at 3b and they feel blake is athletic enough for the switch. in HS, he was the SS for his team so he can probably handle it if he conditions himself right. In instrux, he played a lot of 2b.

2005-11-02 15:17:18
290.   Kayaker7
285 Sorry, I missed that.

286 I don't think the gender part of the entire hand is a bigger obstacle than the race. A woman owner, okay, but a woman GM, who has to evaluate players and negotiate contracts...I think that is where people have a pause. They shouldn't, but they do. I shouldn't, but I do.

2005-11-02 15:18:15
291.   natepurcell
im not sure what the deal with denker is. reports from BA say he has no future at 2b. which is a shame because his bat would make him a monster there.

maybe they do a switch, move denker to a less demanding position at 3b and move dewitt to 2b. dewitt is the more athletic of the two.

2005-11-02 15:18:15
292.   Kayaker7
290 I meant, "I think the gender part..."
2005-11-02 15:18:30
293.   King of the Hobos
And Denker is not much of a defender at 2B, so Dewitt taking the position wouldn't be that bad
2005-11-02 15:18:36
294.   Bob Timmermann
If you don't have any such knowledge, to play the "race card" is irresponsible.

I didn't make the original assertion, but playing the "race card" in baseball is usually not a big stretch.

Others can debate the relative amount of responsibility of doing so.

2005-11-02 15:21:40
295.   Vishal
[250] no jessica alba talk today. but since you asked about it, here's something to feed your apetite:

http://tinyurl.com/9blm7

i would probably take the dodger prospect infield, because martin, laroche, and loney are so good all around and because guzman can rake.

2005-11-02 15:22:45
296.   sanchez101
286. Thats why i said probably, there might be some other reason why she's never been a GM, or to my knowledge even been interviewed. I not using the "race card" or even a "gender card", im saying it seems she's very qualified to be a GM by now and Depodesta, Cashman, Evans, and Boras seem to agree. To think that being asian or being a woman wouldnt be barriers to being a GM, is to ignore all of baseball history up to this point, or all of American history for that matter.
2005-11-02 15:23:15
297.   molokai
Denker has alot to prove to be called an offensive monster after the dump he took when he moved up a level. He didn't just fall back, he fell off a cliff. Moving Dewitt to 2nd makes a lot of sense but he is not close to Kendrick as a prospect at this point. He might get there, but until he plays AA we just don't know.
2005-11-02 15:23:44
298.   Vishal
[287] hey bob, i've been wondering about that. what's the relevant was/were rule?

also, the usage distinction between that and which is pretty fuzzy too, it seems.

2005-11-02 15:23:52
299.   King of the Hobos
Chin-Feng Chen, who is already a FA anyways, is being courted by the Rakuten Eagles of Japan. Can he be the next Roberto Petagine-type player?
2005-11-02 15:25:26
300.   sactofan
288 Did Hochever sign? I haven't been keeping up on a daily basis so must have missed it.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-11-02 15:26:50
301.   Vaudeville Villain
Completely off-topic, but does anyone else think that Brian Kenny (Kinney?) is the best ESPN anchor by FAR? He is pro-sabermetrics, if you've ever seen him on the Hot List, and he's not annoying like Stuart Scott. Or Dan Patrick.

Anyway, just venting.

Hope we hire either Epstein or Ng.

2005-11-02 15:27:09
302.   natepurcell
Moving Dewitt to 2nd makes a lot of sense but he is not close to Kendrick as a prospect at this point. He might get there, but until he plays AA we just don't know.

thats true. at this point, dewitt isnt on kendricks level. but with time, i really think he could be. he has all the tools and makeup to be very good. he also is a tremendously hardworker and very modest about himself (all of this from a first hand source). so we'll see what happens. I think hes going to breakout in vero next year. the reason he was very average the first half of the season last yr was because he was wearing the wrong prescription contact lenses for a long time. he could barely see the ball at night. he also bruised his ribs and that hurt his swing for a while. But once those problems were fixed, he hit extremely better in the second half and was very good in his A+ callup.

right now, we would replace dewitt with young or aybar, since both have proven they can signigicantly hit at levels AA and higher.

2005-11-02 15:27:27
303.   molokai
It is "my opinion" that her gender will hinder her dream to be a baseball GM much more then her ability. Is that okay?
2005-11-02 15:27:56
304.   Borchard504
287 - I agree with 254 - how easy is it to get promoted into a powerful position in professional sports, as an asian female? The grammar errors are neither life or death.
2005-11-02 15:28:29
305.   sanchez101
291. they said the same things about marcus giles.

288. I think the dodgers have just as much, if not more infield depth and flexibility as the angels. dewitt can move to third, as can guzman who can also move to 1st. Aybar can play 3B or 2B. Although Delwyn Young is probably an outfielder, but Dunlap can play 1st and may be a better hitter than Loney, and dont forget Hu or Abreu, both of whom can play SS and 2B.

2005-11-02 15:29:09
306.   Vishal
and as far as the race thing goes, it's a little bold to say definitively that "if kim ng were a white man she would definitely have a GM job by now", but as a suggestion that "she probably would have a GM job by now", it's definitely plausible.

there's a lot of discrimination in society still, let alone in baseball. and frankly, the world of baseball is an extremely traditional, conservative, unprogressive one. this should be pretty obvious to anybody, especially in light of recent events. it's an old boys club. it seems patently obvious to me anyway. i think it would be great if kim could break through the glass ceiling. she seems like a fine GM candidate to me.

2005-11-02 15:29:43
307.   gvette
294/296 So to summarize, you don't know if she's applied for a GM job,and you don't have any facts to substantiate that she's ever been refused a job because of her race or gender.

Ok, I'll drop it now.

2005-11-02 15:30:45
308.   Vishal
or what [296] said :)
2005-11-02 15:30:59
309.   natepurcell
here are dewitts numbers from june 1st on, after the contacts issue was resolved:

82 games played
.318 average
.361 OBP
44 runs
101 hits
24 doubles
2 triples
9 HRs
48 RBI
25 BB
44 K

2005-11-02 15:31:30
310.   underdog
299. Since I don't know who Roberto Petagine is, I'm going to say: "Yes." (i.e., equally obscure - at least to me.) [g]
2005-11-02 15:32:27
311.   Vishal
[307] i think one would only need "facts to substantiate" if one was making a firm, positive assertion. nobody did that. they just said it seemed likely.
2005-11-02 15:32:41
312.   Bob Timmermann
I was just being a pest with the was/were thing. It's a really weird grammar rule in English. And if you read the link, it will make even less sense.

http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/061.html

Sorry, didn't mean to annoy.

2005-11-02 15:33:07
313.   Kayaker7
296 Totally agree. People here would be more honest over a few beers.
2005-11-02 15:34:22
314.   sanchez101
297. is the "drop" anyworse than what happened to Laroche back in 04 when he was. I dont mean to advocate Denker as an elite 2B prospect, but he gets no respect from anyone, even around here, so Ill fight for his cause.

interesting stuff on dewitt, cant wearing the wrong contact lenses damage your eyes.

2005-11-02 15:36:58
315.   Kayaker7
307 Please...as if you really need facts to substantiate the assertion. It is like expecting baseball to be a sanctuary apart from the rest of society. Frankly, I think it is amazing that she is even an assistant GM. Kudos to Evans and Cashman for hiring her, and to DePodesta for retaining her.
2005-11-02 15:37:04
316.   sanchez101
307. Jackie Robinson was interviewed and then turned down from a job because of race. I guess he just wasnt much of a ball player until 1948. :)
2005-11-02 15:37:41
317.   Bob Timmermann
299

Good luck to Chin-Feng Chen playing for the Eagles. They were really bad last year, but they were an expansion team thrown together with a few month's notice.

I don't know how Chen would fare in Japan. It's not easy. The Eagles did not have very good gaijin players last year. They didn't have very good Japanese players last year either.

They tried Luis Lopez, Andy Tracy, and Damon Minor at various times. The team was outhomered 153-88 on the season.

2005-11-02 15:39:23
318.   King of the Hobos
310 Could never break through, and at 28, Petagine went to Japan for 6 years. He just came back and played a little with the Red Sox. He was a monster in Japan, his lowest OPS was .970, next lowest was 1.033

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/roberto-petagine.shtml

2005-11-02 15:40:00
319.   sanchez101
316, insert "never" between "was" and "interviewed"
2005-11-02 15:40:06
320.   Eric L
306 Shoot, a handful of younger, whiter GMs start relying more on statistical analyis than scouts and the traditional baseball world is up in arms.

Can anyone (ummmm Bob) get info on whether or not Ng has interviewed for a GM job? If she hasn't, my bet is that she decided it was best to perhaps build his resume as much as possible because she is going to have a really hard time breaking the gender barrier.

And as Bob spoke of, race issues are certainly important to bring up when it comes to the front offices of baseball. Isn't Kenny Wiliams the only minority GM in baseball at the moment?

2005-11-02 15:42:49
321.   sanchez101
who was a bigger prospect "bust", Chin-Feng Chen or Adrian Beltre. Remeber than Chen was power/speed threat who profiled to hit 30hrs and 20-30sb's a year.
2005-11-02 15:43:04
322.   gvette
317-- Is there any chance that Chen would picked up as a minor league free agent in the US?
2005-11-02 15:44:43
323.   sanchez101
320. Omar Minaya is dominican
2005-11-02 15:45:14
324.   natepurcell
laroche in columbus:
283 .375 .525 244ab 13hr

call up to vero (age 20)
237 .295 .434 219ab 10hr

denker in columbus:
.310 .417 .556 358ab 21hr

call up to vero (age 19)
185 .296 .269 108ab 2hr

dewitt in columbus:
283 .333 .428 481ab 12hr

call up to vero (age 19)
419 .438 .613 31ab 1hr

2005-11-02 15:46:58
325.   King of the Hobos
322 Probably, but the Eagles would give him a guarunteed contract, and I'm not sure how much he enjoys AAA these days. No team will promise him major league playing time. And Japan is closer to his home
2005-11-02 15:53:53
326.   Bob Timmermann
320

The issue of a "minority" GM can be a loaded (as in likely to blow up in your face), but I would think most people would consider Omar Minaya of the Mets to be in a minority.

Kim Ng, as far as I've read, has never applied for a GM job and I think her being female is a very big stumbling block. I would think that the Dodgers, with Jamie McCourt's influence, would be one of the few organizations to even consider her for a GM job.

I doubt that her being Asian is a big issue, but there just haven't been many Asians in any major executive positions or even as coaches (anyone besides Wendell Kim?) The Dodgers, under Walter O'Malley, did have one of the first Asians to work in a fairly important front office job in Ike Ikuhara. He was Peter O'Malley's assistant.

2005-11-02 15:57:22
327.   Bob Timmermann
325

Chen would indeed make a lot more money in Japan than in AAA. Being "close" to home is relative. It's not as if Japan and Taiwan are all that close and the country would be just as foreign to him, although there are more Chinese speakers around. I don't know what Sendai is like (where the Eagles play). Yokohama has an enormous Chinatown.

2005-11-02 15:57:53
328.   gvette
Wasn't Don Wakamatsu a coach somewhere?
2005-11-02 15:58:08
329.   trainwreck
When does free agency start?
2005-11-02 15:59:48
330.   King of the Hobos
329 You can talk with other teams 15 days after the end of the World Series, so a week from Friday
2005-11-02 16:09:55
331.   Nagman
Sorry to go off topic... Bob, seeing as how knowledgeable you are about Japanese baseball, I assume you are familiar with the national high school baseball tournament held at Koshien Stadium? Quite a spectacle. I remember marveling at seeing the same pitcher on the mound every day, even after pitching extra innings the day before. The uniforms would be unwashed if they didn't have time. The players would collect dirt from the field after losing. I grew up on a military base in Okinawa so we always used to root for whatever team made it from the Okinawa prefecture.
2005-11-02 16:09:59
332.   Bob Timmermann
People should drop Mike's Rants for his take on the DePodesta ouster.
2005-11-02 16:11:13
333.   trainwreck
Just had a bad thought. If this takes long and then the eventual GM has to also hire a manager there could be problems. Let' say we hire Bowden. Bowden trying to make an impact in a rush is the worst case scenario. Then again we would be a joke by that time anyways so whatever.
2005-11-02 16:12:11
334.   Blaine
Hacksaw just shared that, "according to inside sources" the Dodgers talked to and tried to set up a meeting with Theo Epstein but he was not interested. He also said that Boston want to set up an interview with Kim Ng.

Based on conversation here today wouldn't that be a kick in the teeth: No Theo and Ng goes to Boston.

2005-11-02 16:13:44
335.   Bob Timmermann
331
I've never seen the Koshien Tournament, but I know it gets enormous crowds. My friend in Japan sent me a videotape of Game 3 of the Japan Series from Koshien which I may watch this weekend (even though I know who wins). It's quite a sight to go to that stadium. It's quintessentially Japanese.
2005-11-02 16:15:15
336.   trainwreck
334-
Terrific. But then again it is from Hacksaw so the exact opposite is true.
2005-11-02 16:17:39
337.   Nagman
335If you ever make another trip over there, you may want to time it around the summer tournament (I think there is a similar spring one but not as big). I haven't been there in years - decades, more like it - but I remember it was fun to watch, and usually full of drama.
2005-11-02 16:18:08
338.   Eric L
323 Thanks Sanchez.. For some reason, I Minaya didn't come to mind.
2005-11-02 16:22:02
339.   Bob Timmermann
The big drawback to going to the August Koshien tournament is that you're in Japan in August and I've been told that it's freakin' hot then. And extremely humid.

I was there in July and it wasn't too hot, but it rained all the time.

2005-11-02 16:25:34
340.   Nagman
339 Yes, but that's part of the experience:-) The big seller is a plastic bag of crushed ice that you either eat/drink or use on your skin.

Wait, but if you are one that hates overuse of the sacrifice bunt, maybe you should skip it...

2005-11-02 16:29:37
341.   JMK
My nightmare scenario has Towers going to Boston, Theo ending up in San Diego, Depo going to Arizona as Assistant GM to Byrnes, and the Dodgers ending up with Bowden. My fear is that this is the most logical scenario. Towers has ties to Luccino in Boston, Sandy Alderson is in San Diego and Theo's been there. And if McCourt trusts Tommy's opinion of Depo why wouldn't he trust it when it comes to Bowden?
2005-11-02 16:31:47
342.   trainwreck
If Bowden is GM I will just hope and hope some more he leaves the minor league players alone and I do not care about the major league team. Of course that is not likely.
2005-11-02 16:33:33
343.   sanchez101
341. If that comes true, im going to have to learn the rules to crickett.
2005-11-02 16:34:01
344.   bigcpa
341 Or Alderson hires DePo and Theo takes his year off. No less hideous of a scenario.
2005-11-02 16:35:37
345.   Bob Timmermann
343
Get cracking!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/sa/cricket/default.stm

2005-11-02 16:39:20
346.   gvette
341-- Do the Padres have money issues regarding servicing their new ballpark debt like the Giants do?

If so, is Padres owner Moores willing to ante up to pay Epstein the type of money he asked the Red Sox for?

2005-11-02 16:41:13
347.   Bob Timmermann
Epstein will work cheap in San Diego because:

1) it's cheap housing ;-)
2) the presence of good luck charm Dave Roberts!

2005-11-02 16:41:27
348.   808Bears
From today's BA chat with Jim Callis:

d st. louis: Why hasn't Bowden gotten more attention by other teams for the vacant GM jobs? He did wonders in Washington on a tight budget

Jim Callis: I'm not a huge Bowden fan. Many of his best players were guys he inherited, and he blew a lot of money on Cristian Guzman and Vinny Castilla. Then he ripped the whole team in September. Add in that he's probably the least-trusted GM in the game, and I don't think he's all that great of a hire.

2005-11-02 16:47:02
349.   slackfarmer
341 Even worse would be if Depo went to Colorado as assitance GM -- he's friends with O'Dowd. I envisioned this scenario yesterday -- http://tinyurl.com/cvavt. Not that I'm overly pessimistic by nature, but the McCourts really know how to bring on the dark clouds.
2005-11-02 16:51:39
350.   blue22
349 - Doubtful Depo goes anywhere as an asst. GM unless he is just bored out of his gourd. Not sure how many asst. GM's will be making multi-millions over the next couple of years, as Depo will.

I figure if he wasn't interested in the DRay job (or if the interest wasn't mutual) that he'll take at least the year off and collect his Dodger paycheck.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-11-02 16:54:30
351.   gvette
347--Cheap housing? Only if they put him up in a spare store room of the Western Supply Building in left field.
2005-11-02 16:55:51
352.   fanerman
There are so many nightmare scenarios. I just wish Theo would come...

BTW, I disagree Mike Carminati's take on the DePo firing (well, duh for me). Sure he spent money in the 2004-2005 offseason but they weren't bad contracts. The best was Derek Lowe and he at least is an above average pitcher (if only slightly). Lowe was the case of no pitching prospects and no other pitchers to acquire. Drew wasn't a bad signing. The wrist was just bad luck. The shoulder, maybe not. I don't see the signings as a "turning to the dark side"... but above average stop gaps until the young core starts to arrive. The players that didn't turn out well (Nakamura, Valentin) were low-risk and we're not financially burdened by them (well, maybe the McCourts are).

I'm not sure Mike is fully aware of all the circumstances. Every move has at least been defensible; some haven't worked out well but most have.

2005-11-02 16:58:31
353.   SMY
334 It was reported in the Boston Globe today that Ng might be a candidate in Boston, but didn't mention any contact. It wouldn't shock me at all if that was Hacksaw's "inside source" and he just made up his own particulars.
2005-11-02 17:19:17
354.   Xeifrank
332. Just left my 2 cents. Perhaps thoughs who can compile their thoughts more clearly can leave theirs. I thought Mike did a poor job of explaining why Depo deserved to be canned.
vr, Xei
2005-11-02 17:28:52
355.   dzzrtRatt
If the Dodgers hire Bowden, does that mean ESPN, specifically Joe Morgan, will start liking the Dodgers again?

We'll become the model team for old-style baseball, admired by all stat-geek-haters. Lasordaball. Who would write that book? David McCullough? Douglas Brinkley? Or maybe Malcolm Gladwell, as a sequel to "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking." Or Jared Diamond, as a sequel to "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed."

Just trying to look at the bright side. I happen to believe Hacksaw is dead-bang correct. It makes all the sense in the world. I'm sure by now Kim Ng absolutely despises the McCourts, and can't wait for a ticket out. DePodesta was probably just one of many who called Lucchino to vouch for her. And Theo...man, I'm trying to hang onto the dream, but I think he'd probably rather cut his foot off than work for McCourt.

Lasordaball. It's coming, to a century near you.

2005-11-02 17:56:17
356.   molokai
321
That was the strangest post I've ever seen from a smart poster. Are you pretending 2004 just didn't happen at all. Chen has one major league hit in his career at the same age as Beltre and you used them in the same sentence. I must have misunderstood your post or missed some sarcasm or something. I'd have to run the numbers but I'm fairly certain that Beltre's 166 home runs are already higher then 90% of the 3rd baseman who have played major league baseball.
We would be so lucky to have LaRoche match what Beltre has done.
2005-11-02 18:15:50
357.   natepurcell
i think what he meant was in terms of thier percieved potential.

beltre was suppose to be a cant miss, no doubt about it, superstar, future HOF etc etc.

has he lived up to that potential? well he did one year but the other 6 he hasnt. But hes only 26 and still has time i guess.

but i do agree with you, the question was kind of strange.

2005-11-02 18:16:04
358.   Romyrick
I know how Frank McCourt can get himself out of this mess.

He could hire James Randy to run the team, PR/GM/Manager.

James Randy is smart enough to make the transition to baseball.

2005-11-02 18:23:17
359.   dzzrtRatt
Or why not the Amazing Kreskin?
2005-11-02 18:37:05
360.   Strike4
Back to JW's original topic. Of course, all bets are off and we need to deal with our current cards. However, if the question is whether every one of Depodesta's moves have been proven out now, then the answer is no. Trading a reliable catcher when there's no backup anywhere on the horizon is not smart. Also, I would have kept Lima, for all the character and fan-appeal reasons that sabr's apparently value at zero. Had he performed in L.A. as he did in K.C., he would've been gone by the All Star break.

My unsolicited advice to Depodesta is to increase his evaluation weightings for character and fan-appeal when assembling a roster. Unfortunately, to paraphrase him, and as many on this site agreed months ago, he can't afford to listen to fans.

2005-11-02 18:41:03
361.   dzzrtRatt
Aaron Brown is now available. CNN is "moving on." (That phrase as a euphemism for "You're fired," will be Frank McCourt's enduring contribution to American culture.)

http://tinyurl.com/86mp

2005-11-02 18:41:23
362.   fanerman
360 - Lima was a money problem. He would have cost about $5 million or so if I remember correctly. Had it been only $1-2 million, I imagine DePo would've been more likely to try him for another year. Our lack of a catcher didn't cost us in 2004. Jason Phillip was not a bad catcher and Navarro is looking pretty good. Fan-appeal is what got the Dodgers in this mess in the first place (the Malone days). That's the worst advice any GM could hear.

355 - That's a scary situation, but it seems more logical than Theo coming here or Ng staying :-(.

2005-11-02 18:43:07
363.   Telemachos
360 The problem with retaining Lima is that he was going to arbitration, and based merely on that would have garnered something like $5 million a year.... way over a reasonable amount. (I think the Royals got him for far, far less this year, once he went to free agency).

I think DePo might have kept Lima around if he could have gotten him for around $1.5 million.

But that would have been a bad move. Look at Lima's stats this year... flat out horrible.

2005-11-02 18:45:19
364.   dzzrtRatt
360 "I would have kept Lima, for all the character and fan-appeal reasons that sabr's apparently value at zero." That would have been a very expensive decision. Lima could've gotten arbitration, and through arbitration, perhaps a $5 million payday. Since contracts are guaranteed, it wouldn't have been a no-lose proposition. By not offering arbitration, under baseball's rules, the Dodgers were forbidden from offering Lima a contract until May of '05, even if no other team had tried to sign him.
2005-11-02 18:46:26
365.   dzzrtRatt
The total of 363, 364 and 365 adds up to $15 million for Lima. No way could McCourt afford that.
2005-11-02 18:51:35
366.   gvette
365 Turns out that Erickson was just as bad as Lima, but for a lot less. "Moneyball" works!
2005-11-02 18:53:52
367.   D4P
366
Yep. And Valentin/Edwards was just as bad as Beltre, but for a lot less. Depo was a genius.
2005-11-02 19:10:37
368.   mag357
has Logan White's name been brought up in the GM search?
2005-11-02 19:14:30
369.   underdog
368. Good question. And for that matter... Dan Evans. (Not that he'd ever come back.)

Meanwhile, you'll be relieved to hear that "the Dodgers are making considerable progress" on the GM front.

http://tinyurl.com/bdxj6

2005-11-02 19:15:39
370.   fanerman
369 - Please be Theo! PLEASE!!!
2005-11-02 19:17:07
371.   underdog
Theo Huxtable's still available, yes.
2005-11-02 19:19:41
372.   mag357
break down Theo's moves that make him our savior.
2005-11-02 19:21:16
373.   fanerman
372 - Not so much HIS move, but when he was born, his parents didn't name him Jim Bowden.
2005-11-02 19:27:10
374.   gvette
369--When that Yahoo article references that there are "no shortage of people who have expressed interest" in the job are they counting everyone who has posted on this site?
2005-11-02 19:33:43
375.   fanerman
374 - Maybe they're interviewing Jon and Bob.
2005-11-02 19:37:52
376.   D4P
Phil Jackson's second term is about to begin. My expectations for his team are not high.
2005-11-02 19:41:26
377.   fanerman
My desire for Laker success is not as high as my desire for Dodger success. Perhaps because the Lakers won already. Still I'm looking forward to the new season. I think things will start to get better for them. At the very least, I can take my mind off of our bumbling owners.
2005-11-02 19:41:39
378.   Bob Timmermann
Jon and I will work as a team. He will be in charge of PR and player evaluation. I will be the Machiavellian player behind the scenes in charge of eliminating any enemies to Jon. I plan to do this by boring them with stories that don't go anywhere.
2005-11-02 19:42:22
379.   trainwreck
376-
I think the Lakers have a good shot at the playoffs. They were in it for 3/4s of the season last year. Now they got Phil back along with Odom back at SF and Kwame at PF. Kwame has ability and can be a force at PF with his size and strength.
2005-11-02 19:44:11
380.   fanerman
378:
...like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter,' you'd say.
"Now where were we? Oh yeah -- the important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones..."
2005-11-02 19:46:58
381.   D4P
Denver fans still boo Kobe mercilessly. Smush Parker could be a sleeper.
2005-11-02 19:50:16
382.   trainwreck
What I love so far about pre-season and 6 minutes into this game haha is that Kobe is taking a lot smarter shots so he is shooting a high percentage. Last year he was shooting way too much and way too many bad shots.
2005-11-02 19:51:21
383.   dzzrtRatt
I am at a point with the Lakers that I hope never to be with the Dodgers. I root for them to lose. I want bad things to happen to them. Perfect happiness would be finding out that Kobe will never be in the playoffs again.
2005-11-02 19:51:56
384.   D4P
382
He has taken one bad shot so far, though he made it. Looks like the Lakers have no defense, which I feared would be the case.
2005-11-02 19:53:13
385.   trainwreck
They have no interior defense.
2005-11-02 19:53:28
386.   D4P
383
I reached that point with the Dodgers some time ago. Unfortunately, I now find myself rooting against Kobe as well. However, Phil is my all-time favorite coach, so I'd like to see them do well for his sake.
2005-11-02 19:54:28
387.   D4P
385
Nope. And Mihm is the kinda guy who isn't gonna get any calls from the refs. 7 foot white guys are foul magnets.
2005-11-02 20:00:45
388.   trainwreck
Flipping back during commercials I remember how much I hate the Clippers commentators.
2005-11-02 20:03:33
389.   Bob Timmermann
There will be no RLGC or RCGC.
2005-11-02 20:27:01
390.   Uncle Miltie
388- Ralph Lawler?
2005-11-02 20:32:26
391.   Bob Timmermann
390

BINGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lawler's Law: First to 100 wins the game. IT'S THE LAW!!!!

Lawler's Law is irrelevant in today's NBA.

2005-11-02 20:53:27
392.   Uncle Miltie
391- he has something like a 90-95 % success rate. And what are you talking about Bob? Teams are worse than ever offensively. How many teams averaged 100 points a game last year? 2,3, 4?

Ralph is a very good announcer, something the Lakers lack.

2005-11-02 20:54:31
393.   Uncle Miltie
nevermind, I misread youe post

He's had the law for over 25 years though

2005-11-02 21:09:02
394.   fanerman
What is the "Tommy Lasorda doesn't know waiver rules" story?
2005-11-02 21:24:55
395.   trainwreck
is today the day of the dead? There are mexican trumpet players and drummers playing non stop on my street
2005-11-02 21:25:09
396.   Bob Timmermann
Yeah, I just meant in this day in the NBA Lawler's Law is sort of like talking about a baseball team's record when they score 10 runs in a game.

But Lawler remembers an era when both teams would crack 100 quite often.

I'm always stunned now when I see an NBA team score in the 70s. It's like we're in the Deadball Era of the NBA.

2005-11-02 21:25:32
397.   Bob Timmermann
Today is indeed Dia de Los Muertos.
2005-11-02 21:36:08
398.   trainwreck
Lawler's law just envoked.
2005-11-02 21:38:39
399.   Bob Timmermann
They don't have the graphic of Lawler as Lady Justice holding scales.

That was pretty weird when I saw it.

2005-11-02 21:45:31
400.   Bob Timmermann
Not much new, but this is Ken Gurnick's story on the GM search

http://tinyurl.com/bszyn

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-11-02 22:13:19
401.   Uncle Miltie
Sam Cassell just took over the game. The Clippers wouldn't have won that game last year.

The Lakers are another story. It's been Kobe and Smush Parker (in the first half) and that's it. Odom is choking.

2005-11-02 22:17:04
402.   Smitty
Long time lurker here. I guess I am the only one happy Depo is gone. I was excited when he got hired, but I admit I lost that excitement somewhere along the way to 71-91.

I agree that many of his moves have been marginally good, but some are debatable. What makes me most nervous with Depo were the moves he planned to make that fell through, i.e. Unit, Charles Johnson, and the whole Yankee trade fiasco last year. For me, it's hard to imagine he didn't lose an awful lot of credibility with those, resulting in him being less effective in the future.

2005-11-02 22:20:59
403.   Bob Timmermann
Welcome Smitty! Good to have you aboard.
2005-11-02 22:32:51
404.   molokai
My Clips are in 1st for a day. Sam I Am talked the talk and walked the walk. Finally a player who is not afraid to step up for his team. I've always hated him, I think I'll quickly fall in love with the Alien. For one day I can forget about the Dodger mess and indulge in my Clipper news. I am bummed I'm going to miss opening day for the 1st time in a long while.
Raplh Lawler is the man. While Chick was doing all those games he at least he got to see his team win almost every game. Ralph has been at it for more then 25 years for one of the worse teams in sports history. He should get a bloody gold medal.
2005-11-02 22:39:46
405.   dzzrtRatt
400 I saw that. It made me feel sorry for the Dodgers. They place a phone call to a guy who hasn't even returned the call yet--and on that basis, his mug is slapped onto the home page of the Dodgers' website. How desperate does that make us look?

402 I think you've itemized exactly the DePodesta errors that were clearly unforced and not just bad luck. He was a work in progress. I don't think you'll find that folks on this site who wanted to keep him ignore that he made some big blunders.

Some who wanted him to stay saw his potential as being greater than his performance. Others felt comfortable because his values seemed perfect for a team with a lot of exciting young prospects. He wasn't likely to trade them for a short-term fix. Lasorda's presence in this mix is disturbing, because he was involved in the Dodgers' trading away of Pedro Martinez and Paul Konerko. So DePo grows even greater in retrospect compared to the morass we're in now.

2005-11-02 22:58:59
406.   Im So Blue
From WFAA.com and the Dallas Morning News...

Dodgers to talk with Rangers' Hart

The Dodgers are interested in former Rangers general manager John Hart as a potential candidate for their vacant GM position.

Rangers owner Tom Hicks confirmed that Dodgers owner Frank McCourt called him Wednesday and asked for permission to speak to Hart, who is under contract as a consultant. Clubs must ask the Rangers for permission to speak with him...

2005-11-02 22:59:21
407.   capdodger
402 Ahh, yes. The "loss of cred" argument with the Johnson trade as evidence. The inital trade was bad for the Dodgers. If you look back through the archives here, you'll find that many though DePo had jumped the shark at that pooin. That a somewhat improved trade eventually went forward (netting a good young catcher, I might add) should suffice as counter-evidence that he was in over his head. The lesson here should be, "Don't believe everything on the back page of the NY Post."

The guy wasn't perfect. The continued presence of Erikson and Gabrowski showed that. DePo was consitient and had a plan. He deserved better than to be shoved to the curb with the McCourt's other refuse. He should have been allowed to carry out his plan.

2005-11-02 23:00:09
408.   xaphor
378 "I plan to do this by boring them with stories that don't go anywhere."

Is the filibuster allowed in contract negotiations?

2005-11-02 23:09:04
409.   underdog
Hmm, so the Palm Beach Post (and the LA Daily News) is reporting that the Dodgers may want to talk to Marlins GM Larry Beinfest. Says that he's from SoCal and might want to return home.

http://tinyurl.com/bdto4

What do we know about him? (Other than that team is pretty talented, and includes a few former Dodgers...)

2005-11-02 23:11:31
410.   Bob Timmermann
409

The return of Lo Duca, Encarnacion, and Mota!

The Glory Days return! All will be well! All hail 2004!

Beinfest could trade both Martin AND Navarro to get Lo Duca back.

2005-11-02 23:24:47
411.   Bob Timmermann
Someone needs to tell the Palm Beach Post that it's "Chatsworth" and not "Chatworth".
2005-11-02 23:25:37
412.   dzzrtRatt
Well, how about this?

Verizon is reporting that the Dodgers have asked for permission to speak to everyone in the flippin' phone book! "We are not limiting our search to people who have seen a baseball game," spokesman Josh Rawitch said. "The Dodgers' pursuit of excellence will take us to some unusual places. I myself am on my way to a massage parlor right now, because I've heard that Fifi combines great communications skills with an excellent brand of leadership. Tally ho!"

2005-11-02 23:28:57
413.   Smitty
407
I don't have any issue with Depo's plan. My issue is that I don't see much evidence of him successfully executing it. Even with free agents last year, he was unable to sign targeted players, the pitching market "got away from him", and he had to settle for whoever was left with Lowe and Perez. Kent was an excellent pickup, and I like Drew, but the Drew contract is curious, and it seems to me it was a panic signing.

For me, the result is most important. The team Depo mostly inherited won 93; the team he mostly built won 71. That's the bottom line for me.

2005-11-02 23:28:59
414.   Javier Gutierrez
Is Hart the one that signed Chan Ho Park?
2005-11-02 23:31:09
415.   Javier Gutierrez
Who were the pitchers that "got away"? Pavano? Wright? Clement who wanted to stay on the east coast?
2005-11-02 23:35:33
416.   Robert Fiore
My favorite fantasy now is that the Dodgers hire Epstein as GM. My second favorite fantasy is that Epstein brings Bill James with him and sics him on Plaschke.

No, really, the discomfort Epstein would cause Plaschke would be worth the price of admission all by itself. I mean, what kind of cheap shot attack can you level at a guy who turns the stinking Red Sox into a World Series winner?

2005-11-02 23:37:09
417.   dzzrtRatt
Okay, more seriously, Beinfest is one of the few GMs out there for whom it could honestly be said that working for the McCourts could be a step up. Jeffrey Loria sets the gold standard for one of the worst owners in baseball, although Frank and Jamie are giving him a run for his money.

Despite that, he's managed to pull the Marlins into contender status and keep them there. He took over the team in 2002, having been dragged down to Miami from the GM slot in Montreal by Loria. Like DePo, he took over the team in the middle of spring training. By the following season, they were in the World Series--the big moves being the hiring of McKeon and the acquisition of I-Rod, plus not surrendering the young players who were coming up.

Both Beinfest and Hart seem acceptable. They've won, and they've won with young cores of players they've allowed to develop.

2005-11-02 23:40:30
418.   LAT
Molokai spot on about Ralph "fasten your seatbelt" Lawler. The guy has not gotten the credit he deserves. And calling 20 years of Clipper games he deserves combat pay.

I know what you mean about Sam Cassell. Always hated the guy and he always killed the Clips. Reminds me of a certain 2B I always hated until he came to play for my favorite team and kicked butt in every catagory.

2005-11-02 23:42:50
419.   Steve
What is the Bowden-meter doing today?
2005-11-02 23:50:47
420.   dzzrtRatt
I think the Union of Concerned Scientists moved the Bowden doomsday clock back by 45 seconds.
2005-11-02 23:51:47
421.   capdodger
Does anyone in here go by 'nocaldodger' in the MLB boards? If you're a lurker, please come out...

That was a very fine post here:
http://tinyurl.com/7egxc

2005-11-02 23:53:37
422.   Steve
I'll take what I can get.
2005-11-02 23:59:25
423.   capdodger
413 The pitching market got away from everyone last year.
2005-11-03 00:19:23
424.   das411
417 - Trading for Urbina and Conine were HUGE deals for that team as well. What I don't remember though is how much of the post-1997 core was acquired by Beinfest; i.e. when did Dombrowski (sp?) leave? Who gets credit for which deals?
2005-11-03 00:26:58
425.   das411
Cmon, none of you on the left coast are still awake? The night is young!
...and I have an exam on ancient Mesopotamia tomorrow afternoon. Back to studying...
2005-11-03 00:35:53
426.   das411
er, wow, just saw that "He took over the team in 2002" in 417 there. Sorry 'bout that everybody. Still, didn't he trade Cliff Floyd and/or Preston Wilson, etc?
2005-11-03 00:44:47
427.   dzzrtRatt
421 Good catch. That was a great piece of writing. It is something McCourt should be stapled to a chair and forced to read. In contrast to McCourt's cringe-making, squirming, wormy press conference, full of PR-speak and mindless repitition of empty phrases, here are facts.
2005-11-03 00:50:54
428.   fanerman
421 - Great read. I wish McCourt read it. I'm still completely pissed at him, Jamie, and Tommy.
2005-11-03 01:02:27
429.   dzzrtRatt
426 Actually you were correct.

From the DN: "While the affable McKeon got most of the attention that October (2003), it was Beinfest who during that season added key players Ugueth Urbina, Lenny Harris, Chad Fox, Rick Helling and Jeff Conine."

Conine was an original Marlin, but he'd been playing in Baltimore when Beinfest reacquired him.

2005-11-03 01:07:15
430.   Steamer
Speaking of the market getting away....that feeling I had last year as the better pitchers came down off the board has returned, albeit with GM's. I grow more restless by the day as it seems we lag behind once again, as we will when that new GM gets around to hiring a manager. What troubles me the most is that we are no longer seen as a place that players -- or now executives want to be. Ever think we'd see the day where people were turning us down for .....Tampa Bay?

Of the options I've read here tonight, I'd opt for the two headed "monster" of Jon, with Bob watching his back. No, seriously. Jon's knowledge and Bob's charm? My fear is that the end result will be a different two headed monster....

2005-11-03 01:08:41
431.   das411
Yeah dzz, I was actually thinking if he had any part in the post-1997 tear down that was really the foundation of that team.

Believe me, those Marlins completely demolished my Phils that year, I know all about the moves they made that summer.

Sometimes it is just interesting though to just go back and see a team like that get built, piece by piece...oh, what is "the DN", by the way?

2005-11-03 01:16:51
432.   bokonon42
Molokai's 176 is starting to sound plausible. Like in Good Will Hunting, where Ben Aflack (DePo) gets dissed by the smarmy Harvardian (McCourt, ironically), and then Matt Damon (Epstein) one-ups the one-upper. Kim Ng can be Minnie Driver. Mmm, Minnie Driver [gurgle]
2005-11-03 01:55:10
433.   overkill94
421 Wow, from all the negative press that DePo had gotten lately I had somewhat become brainwashed into thinking he wasn't as good as I had thought. While these are all the same thoughts I had tried to convey to people from day 1, this summarization makes it that much more concise and powerful.

Too bad that post probably fell upon a bunch of deaf ears who more than likely whined about how Beltre would have led the Dodgers to the world series had he been re-signed.

2005-11-03 06:59:34
434.   Vishal
fernando is STILL pitching. according to henson/the times:

"Fernando Valenzuela is at it again. The former Dodger great turned 45 on Tuesday and today will make his first start for Mexicali in the Mexican League."

good for him.

2005-11-03 07:21:46
435.   Doug N
Just wanted to say hello to everyone and comment that I am still reeling from the firing.
421 - Love the plea to bring him back; is that even possible?
434 - I bet that's Lasorda's idea. Maybe he wants to try some Fernando-mania Revisited schtick.
2005-11-03 07:25:04
436.   Kilgore Trout
I haven't received a call yet from the McCourts.

Should I be insulted?

2005-11-03 08:10:31
437.   regfairfield
Honestly, if Beinfest were named DePodesta, he'd be just as hated by the local press. To put it in press terms his recent moves.

Refused to resign one of the heroes of the 2003 World Series (Pudge Rodrgiuez).

He traded a young prospect (Wilson Valdez) for a pitcher who spent opening day 2005 heckling his former teammates.

Traded a World Series hero, the teams first baseman, and a young prospect for an aging catcher and a bad reliever. He never filled the hole left by Penny (see Ismael Valdez and Al Leiter.)

Traded Abraham Nunez, who made St. Louis forget Scott Rolen, for a useless middle reliever. He sure would have helped when Lowell became eight million dollars worth of replacement player.

Created a horrible clubhouse atmosphere by signing Carlos Delgado. I can prove this because A.J. Burnett quit the team at the end of the season.

Compared to Beinfest, DePo is a saint. Of course, none of that matters because Beinfest doesn't own a computer.

2005-11-03 08:30:11
438.   Steve
Anybody who trades for a middle reliever should be barred from major league baseball parks with Pete Rose.
2005-11-03 08:37:04
439.   gvette
Does anybody have any idea how much the McCourts are paying to fulfill the contracts of people they've already fired?

First Evans, now DePo plus people like Lon Rosen and the various PR, marketing and financial people they canned still under contract.

The amount of money owed to former employees must be pretty impressive.

2005-11-03 08:44:54
440.   blue22
I'm feeling better about Bowden today. Seems like we just might dodge that bullet with candidates Hart, Epstein, Benifest, and Ng looking more likely now.
2005-11-03 08:58:02
441.   Terry A
440 Well, just don't think about how, in this confidential search process, the Dodgers can quietly talk to Steve Phillips, Dan Duquette, Gord Ash, and others of that ilk without seeking anybody's permission.

432 Epstein bears some facial resemblance to Ben Affleck, which might be reason enough not to hire him. If their career paths follow a similar arc, we're better off without him.

2005-11-03 08:59:29
442.   blue22
440 - Thanks. :-|
2005-11-03 09:01:42
443.   blue22
er...441 I mean. Steve Phillips does not bring happy thoughts.
2005-11-03 09:05:32
444.   dzzrtRatt
437 On that note, I fully expect Bill Plaschke to mug Theo Epstein any day now. He will unmask Epstein as another guy who uses Excel, traded a local hero (Nomar), and hasn't even met Tommy Lasorda, and is therefore unqualified. Plaschke will not take this Epstein talk lying down.
2005-11-03 09:08:34
445.   gvette
443--The good news is that Phillips and Bobby Valentine couldn't co-exist with the Mets. If Valentine is the heir apparent for manager, Phillips would have no shot.
2005-11-03 09:10:16
446.   Steve
Steve Phillips? When should I start the tickertape parade for Jim Bowden?
2005-11-03 09:12:21
447.   blue22
446 - It's all relative, isn't it? Bowden suddenly morphs into Branch Rickey if Phillips throws his hat into the ring.
2005-11-03 09:29:24
448.   Jonny6
re 437 and 438, anyone who signs, trades for, or even allows Ismael Valdez to drive into the team parking lot should be permanently ostracized from the GM universe. I'd be holding tryouts at my local high school for aging slow pitch sloshball standouts before I would allow Valdez to pitch for any team I was running. Give me a 2005 version of Nomo or even Omar Daal but please - no Ismael Valdez. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh........
2005-11-03 09:33:32
449.   slackfarmer
447 What a sad thought -- having to choose between Bowden and Phillips. And to think, one of these guys might replace Depo.

It's pretty hard to be a Dodger fan right now.

2005-11-03 09:36:50
450.   gvette
I take it you would have been in favor of the rumored Valdes(z) for Jim Edmunds swap in the late 90's.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-11-03 09:41:41
451.   jasonungar05
Didn't Hart hire Depo in Cleveland? That's Ironic to me.
2005-11-03 09:42:05
452.   regfairfield
I think Ismael Valdez taught me that win-loss record means nothing. Look at the ERA's he posted from 95-99

3.05 (13-11)
3.32 (15-7)
2.65 (10-11)
3.98 (11-10)
3.98 (9-14)

That ranges from above average to down right studly. Yes, he became utterly horrible after that, but the Dodgers got a lot of good years from Valdez.

2005-11-03 09:46:18
453.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
452 All I recall of Ismael Valdez was that when he was young, he seemed to have this great potential ahead of him, but he would seem to get tagged for small bunches of runs allowing him to lose close games.
2005-11-03 09:47:43
454.   Terry A
Wow. When they said Depo(t) had communication trouble, they weren't kidding.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9911744/

2005-11-03 10:09:17
455.   Jerry
Joe Sheehan slams McCourt and the local media in a Baseball Prospectus column today.
2005-11-03 10:09:26
456.   blue22
452 - He also got the "wussy" label because of his blister problems (which I've never understood).
2005-11-03 10:13:51
457.   blue22
455 - Are all articles on BP behind the pay-curtain only, or do you get Sheehan articles with the free subscription too?
2005-11-03 10:17:10
458.   Bob Timmermann
You almost always have to pay for Sheehan's column.
2005-11-03 10:17:30
459.   Jerry
458: You've got to pay to read the columns (though the "Notebook" pieces are free, I believe).
2005-11-03 10:25:01
460.   Jon Weisman
Sorry - kind of bogged down today. Small new item up top.
2005-11-03 10:25:16
461.   bigcpa
If there was a single column worth $40- that's the one. Although a few quibbles.

He calls Evans the "key architect of the '04 team." Yes in terms of headcount- but Evans did not hand DePo the keys to a playoff team as we all know. The 2003 team was last in the NL in runs. Injuries to Jordan and McGriff do not compare to Drew/Bradley. The 2004 team got over the hump first thanks to Beltre, but second from Bradley, Werth, Finley. So Evans gets a big hug for not trading Beltre but DePo got us into October.

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