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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Calling Colletti
2005-11-15 19:37
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Hiring Ned Colletti as general manager for the Dodgers is not a decision that makes sense to me, but I'm going to give Colletti the chance that many did not give Paul DePodesta.

As the McCourts prepared to buy the Dodgers two years ago, there were much more serious warning flags than those waving around Colletti. On paper, the choice does not seem particularly inspired. On paper, I don't see what Colletti offered that Kim Ng does not.

But Colletti is not Brian Sabean. Colletti is not the Giants. Colletti is Colletti.

I'm going to tell Colletti what I told McCourt as he bought the team. Be smart. Be good.

Comments (374)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-11-15 19:49:24
1.   TheDictator
What is known about his management philosophy?

I hope it is not the same as the old and no farm system Giants.

2005-11-15 19:53:41
2.   Vishal
oh, he'll definitely be given a chance. but it's not wrong to be disappointed and fearful. obviously we'll know a lot more when he actually starts making some moves, and it's possible he may end up being very good, but i don't see any reason for celebration right now. i'm guardedly pessimistic and i hope i'm wrong.
2005-11-15 19:53:53
3.   Sam DC
I'll give him an open-minded chance too, starting tomorrow. But today, just for today, it's just not a very fun choice.
2005-11-15 19:55:16
4.   corey
Ugh.
2005-11-15 19:56:41
5.   Sam DC
I don't have Insider, but it looks like Buster Olney picks the Dodgers to win the Division next year.
2005-11-15 19:56:54
6.   Rich Lederer
Wasn't the last GM formerly an Assistant General Manager from the Bay Area?

Maybe Colletti doesn't use a computer though.

2005-11-15 19:57:28
7.   King of the Hobos
For all we know, Colletti was the mastermind behind the Schmidt deal and hated the Nathan deal.

And for those complaining about vets, the Giants do plan on keeping Lowry and Cain in the rotation, so they don't hate every prospect

Look at the Giants contracts. Those were Colletti's job. If you dislike them, then you dislike Colletti. (his negotiations tend to lead to backloaded contracts, that have options on them, not necessarily a bad thing)

2005-11-15 19:57:43
8.   Vishal
[5] uh oh, we're doomed.
2005-11-15 19:59:00
9.   King of the Hobos
7 If you dislike the contracts, then you can dislike Colletti.
2005-11-15 20:02:05
10.   oldbear
7. If contracts are the measuring point, then yeah I guess I hate him. Backloading over 35'ers seems idiotic to me. Giving contracts to Matheny, Alfonso, Vizquel...

His comments in BP were not to comforting.

I'll give him a chance, but judging by his track record i dont think he warranted an interview to be honest with you.

2005-11-15 20:07:34
11.   King of the Hobos
Maybe now that he's GM, Colletti will let Ng negotiate, while he makes the decisions. That way our contracts are the generally the same, and the "who negotiates the contracts?" problem disappears. Maybe Smith and White can help out on evaluating players then...

In other news, the Nats no longer have interest in Bradley. Instead, they've chosen to pursue another ex-Dodger (we all know Bradley's an ex now)--Juan Encarnacion

2005-11-15 20:13:29
12.   LetsGoDodgers
It'll be interesting to see if he stays the Giants course (OLD veterans over unproven youth) or lets the kids play their way on to the big club. My heart says the latter, but my head knows it's the former.

Also, it's hard to think about a guy named Ned and not have Ned Flanders and the Ned from Groundhog Day stuck in my head.

2005-11-15 20:17:22
13.   Screwgie
The hiring of Depodesta was a progressive move. Colletti... completely reactionary.

And that brings me down.

We'll see....

2005-11-15 20:23:04
14.   jujibee
I guess what upsets me the most about this situation is that McCourt has single handedly broken everything the Dodgers stand for in a couple of years. He has come in and is now on his third GM in 2 years, none of which have come from within the Dodger organization. Maybe Coletti will work out, but while Depo was said to be so bad at PR then fired, McCourt really hasn't convinced me he knows anything more than Depo about PR. To restore the Dodger way, his goal, took a huge step back today IMO. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but as far as tradition, the only move he made that was decent was hiring Depo, someone who was trying to accomplish this goal. The Dodger way will never be without consistency.
2005-11-15 20:29:43
15.   Rich Lederer
From the LAT article:

He moved to the Giants in 1995 and became assistant GM in 1997, the year the team began a run of successful seasons that ended with last season's disappointing third-place finish.

"There were all sorts of messes in San Francisco, and not all of them became public," said an agent who has had several clients play for the Giants. "Ned dealt with all of them."

*

DePo has adversity and gets fired. Colletti has adversity and gets hired. Go figure.

2005-11-15 20:29:43
16.   overkill94
I love how the "Dodger Way" is ushered in with someone who has been working with the giants the last 9 years. Seems to further the notion that McCourt really has no plan.

I'm willing to give him a chance though. No reason to condemn him before he's said a word or made a move. That being said, I'm not exactly optimistic about the whole thing, which is not the norm for me.

2005-11-15 20:32:57
17.   sanchez101
lets not get too attached to colletti (or to critizing him), does anyone think that he will last longer than any other executive McCourt has hired not from his immediate family? He could be a solid GM, and it wont really matter. Id say the over/under on the Colletti era is 2 years.
2005-11-15 20:34:47
18.   fanerman
17 - That's a fair point.
2005-11-15 20:37:43
19.   D4P
17
Who's to say the McCourts will even be around another 2 years.
2005-11-15 20:40:09
20.   trainwreck
He looks like Kevin Malone with a fatter face, that can not be a good sign. So depressed...please keep the minor leaguers!
2005-11-15 20:41:10
21.   Rich Lederer
Maybe Colletti can bring Ron Wotus with him as the next Dodgers' manager?
2005-11-15 20:41:30
22.   fanerman
20 - If he just keeps the minor leaguers... that's all I hope from him. My standards are much lower.
2005-11-15 20:43:50
23.   D4P
21
And Barry Bonds as the nextg Dodgers' left fielder...?
2005-11-15 20:45:09
24.   fanerman
23 - Thanks but no thanks.
2005-11-15 20:46:33
25.   dzzrtRatt
Nowadays--probably always--if you're a baseball exec and you come out as an adherent of sabremetrics/Moneyball, it's like painting a big fat target on your back for idiots like Plaschke, Joe Morgan and Tommy Lasorda to aim at. If I were a sabre-minded GM , I would take my PR lessons from Crash Davis rather than Bill James. Colletti seemed to bob and weave in that BP interview. He didn't call sabremetrics crap like others have.

I disagree with a lot of you guys in that I don't see this great divide between new and old thinking lasting much longer. It's not a death struggle. It's like technology; there are early adapters, and then there are people who wait until all the bugs get worked out. A few stubbornly ignore the benefits of new information, but the Darwinian principles begin to apply to them after awhile.

If you guys have faith in sabremetrics, you should assume Colletti either already gets it, or is in the process of doing so--because he wants to win. And if sabremetrics isn't a sure-fire winning set of principles, what's the fuss about?

2005-11-15 20:49:02
26.   dzzrtRatt
15 Except, DePodesta's biggest messes (his disputes with Tracy over using Choi and Perez, the Kent/Bradley feud) you heard too much about.
2005-11-15 20:51:13
27.   fanerman
25 - It's not philosophical for me anymore. I just hope he doesn't trade our prospects for has beens. The Giants don't exactly have a good record on trading prospects. Hopefuly he at least sees that we're "rebuilding" and figures there's no point going for broke right now.

I wonder what Ng does now? I hope she doesn't leave us, even though if I were in her shoes, I would.

2005-11-15 20:52:42
28.   sanchez101
for anyone that bothers to read rosenthal, he likes Colletti because:

"But rather than aim for a cheap public-relations splash, the Dodgers hired a good, old-fashioned baseball executive, someone over the age of 30, someone who actually has paid his dues."

There are two glaring problems with this one sentance. First, Rosenthal claims that the Dodgers were smart for avoiding a PR move, but Rosenthal, among others, critisized Depodesta for not being a good PR guy. Secondly, Rosenthal claims that the Dodgers were smart to give the job to someone who "actually paid his dues", colletti started working for the giants in 1994, depodesta's front office career started in 1995. Oddly enough, I didnt know this until know, but Depodesta was actually Clevelands Advance Scout for two years, thats right Depodesta was actually employed as a scout. wow.

any way, here's what Rosenthal said just two weeks ago;
"Better McCourt should stop trying to re-invent the wheel, minimize his risk and hire a proven GM ... DePodesta never ran a department as Billy Beane's assistant with the A's. Never had to persuade others to adopt his vision. Never had to rein in out-of-line employees"
How does Colletti's experience have anything to do with this, and yet he like Colletti's signing. Where can I get a job were my idea's dont even have to be coherent from week to week?

Ok, i promise thats the last time i will compare Depo to Colletti, just had to get that out of my system. Oh ya, and Rosenthal is a bigger hack than I thought.

2005-11-15 20:53:38
29.   fanerman
28 - Or sentence to sentence.
2005-11-15 20:54:43
30.   fanerman
29 Should read:

Where can I get a job were my idea's dont even have to be coherent from week to week?

Yeah I hated Rosenthal the second I heard him talk.

2005-11-15 20:56:28
31.   fanerman
Oh and DePo is also over the age of 30.
2005-11-15 21:01:28
32.   sanchez101
25. "sabermetrics" is a method with "bugs" to figure out. All it is is a movement to incorperate reason and logic to baseball analysis. There are no "bugs" to be worked out. I agree, thought, that its not nealry as great a divide as the media likes to think.

In that BP interview, Colletti claims, "How the pitcher's numbers were accumulated isn't as important as talent, makeup, how he pitches in certain situations." Why would he be afraid to endorse statistical analysis at BP, he has nothing to loose. That interview has me worried. Im not sure how long Ng and Smith will last before they are either fired or leave.

Just as a note on the whole idiocy of this decision, it seems Colletti was hired for his ability to negotiate contracts. Why not Ng, she has a much better record, AND has experience in player development. McCourt better have a good explanation tomorrow.

2005-11-15 21:01:34
33.   trainwreck
We can pretty much say good-bye to Hee Seop.
2005-11-15 21:03:14
34.   fanerman
33 - I hope you're not right. I will cling to the dream that Hee Seop will hit 35 home runsin Dodger Blue next year.

McCourt still wants to save money, right?

2005-11-15 21:04:49
35.   Bob Timmermann
But it's Kim Ng's birthday Thursday!
2005-11-15 21:05:43
36.   jujibee
33 Thank God!
2005-11-15 21:06:09
37.   Steve
If you're depressed now, go read Rosenthal and Henson. They're like eulogies for hope.
2005-11-15 21:07:36
38.   Vishal
[36] yeah, who needs young players with a history of good plate discipline and ample home run power? guys like that never amount to anything.
2005-11-15 21:07:50
39.   fanerman
Steve,

Have you had anything to drink yet?

2005-11-15 21:08:46
40.   SiGeg
25 -- Great point about it being smart if Colletti remains non-commital in public about sabermetrics, no matter what he actually thinks.

Hopefully, Colletti has an open mind to the information sabermetrics provides, and will have people on his staff who are able to provide it. He doesn't have to be a sabermetrics wiz to make use of it, and certainly doesn't have to be one to be a successful GM.

However, I don't see why we should "assume Colletti either already gets it, or is in the process of doing so--because he wants to win." Doesn't everyone in baseball want to win? Does that mean they all "get it" or will soon "get it"?

2005-11-15 21:10:12
41.   King of the Hobos
"He knows enough to know it's not a one-person job," said an executive with knowledge of the Giant front office. "He'll take advice. He'll delegate."

Well, that's good. Hopefully if he uses the Giants strategy, then White, Ng, Smith, and Collins can delegate and win 4-1 not to trade Jackson and Billingsley for Tom Glavine

2005-11-15 21:12:00
42.   trainwreck
If only Ben Howland could be GM of the Dodgers.
2005-11-15 21:12:35
43.   Steve
I appreciate this effort to make Dodger-ade from Dodgers, but Colletti has Neifi-lover written all over him. All. Over. Him.
2005-11-15 21:14:28
44.   King of the Hobos
41 I should have read the whole thing, the next line:

It is unclear whether Colletti plans to retain Ng or vice president of player development Roy Smith, who have been running the Dodger front office since DePodesta was fired.

2005-11-15 21:15:24
45.   King of the Hobos
43 The Cubs already did their best to eradicate that problem. The Padres just need to sign Jacque Jones soon
2005-11-15 21:15:47
46.   fanerman
44 - I'm trying to reserve judgment, but I'm absolutely frightened now. And that's icing on the cake.
2005-11-15 21:16:25
47.   trainwreck
I would not be surprised if he lets Kim go just because he feels threatened by her. Not saying that will happen, it just would not surprise me.
2005-11-15 21:18:44
48.   jujibee
38 Choi definately has an up-side from the optimists. He's slow in the field, slow at the plate and slow on the basepaths. He generates good bat speed once he gets his hands going, but he's too inconsistant for my likings. I know the Sabre-fans will disagree, but I don't think he's the answer for us at first for next year and any year to come.
2005-11-15 21:18:49
49.   Steve
Now Boston is choosing between Jim Bowden and Kim Ng. We'll see if they get it right.
2005-11-15 21:19:50
50.   dzzrtRatt
40 Doesn't everyone in baseball want to win? Does that mean they all "get it" or will soon "get it"?

If it works, I would say yes absolutely. You can't keep useful knowledge bottled up forever. Only announcers, ex-ballplayers and idiot scribes like Plaschke think it should be shunned. But they aren't accountable, it's not their job to win ballgames, and besides, what they're criticizing is a caricature of it. I mean, the best Plaschke could do was name-call DePodesta things like "Google Boy." What does that tell you? I seriously doubt Colletti got the job by promising not to use statistics or a computer.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-11-15 21:22:38
51.   Bob Timmermann
For the record, "Google Boy" was a Simers nickname.
2005-11-15 21:22:50
52.   King of the Hobos
Gurnick uses an interesting verb to describe the Dodgers hiring Colletti:

'The Dodgers raided the front office of the archrival San Francisco Giants on Tuesday, hiring Ned Colletti as their general manager.'

I hope Colletti works fast to construct the front office (assuming he does something with it), and to redo the roster for the Rule 5 (he has to work fast for that). Maybe even sign some NRIs. Just something so we can get a (very) general idea of what he will do

2005-11-15 21:23:08
53.   fanerman
48 - Don't have the will to put on the Choi defense. I just hope we keep him. If only to save money.
2005-11-15 21:23:22
54.   sanchez101
48. he was inconsitent because he got inconsitent playing time; i dont think being slow in the field or on the basebaths is really much of an issue for a first baseman. Are you a scout?
2005-11-15 21:23:32
55.   trainwreck
If Kim goes to Boston I hope she is really successful and I really do not like the Red Sox. I just want her to succeed to shove it in Frank's face.
2005-11-15 21:24:55
56.   fanerman
55 - Maybe she'll loot from the Dodgers Choi and other "unwanteds."
2005-11-15 21:26:09
57.   trainwreck
OMG Lawler is now talking about or GM and saying it will not be someone from the pages of Moneyball.
2005-11-15 21:26:24
58.   trainwreck
*our
2005-11-15 21:27:47
59.   fanerman
Lawler as in Lawler's Law?
2005-11-15 21:27:57
60.   Sam DC
How did it end being Google, not Googol?
2005-11-15 21:28:49
61.   Sam DC
I feel like typing out a googol, but I'm afraid if I fritz the columns tonight someone will end up getting hurt.
2005-11-15 21:30:29
62.   King of the Hobos
If Ng leaves, what are the chances Colletti can lure Antonetti as AGM? Not just would that make me like him more, but a duo of Colletti and Antonetti would be great
2005-11-15 21:31:22
63.   Steve
Choi is not slow in the field. Again, this is a reputation gained from one series, the Cardinal series, where the pitchers gave up a combined 70 hits in four games, then conspired with the media to blame it on the defense, since that was a convenient meme the media had already been harping on for the better part of the offseason. The self-same media had been touting the Dodgers' abhorrent pitching staff, and was attempting to fit the story into the way it perceived the world, regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

Choi is many things. Choi is not other things. But any discussion of him must begin without misrepresenting those facts, or, as during the season, we will never get anywhere.

2005-11-15 21:33:53
64.   King of the Hobos
57 According to the index of Moneyball, Coletti is not in fact in it. Sabean is though
2005-11-15 21:34:11
65.   trainwreck
59-
Yes that Lawler.
2005-11-15 21:34:19
66.   sanchez101
53. ill put the defense for you, and you know what, screw anyone that disrespects Choi like that. I have to hear all the time about how crappy players like erstad and neifi perez are so great for reasons that have nothing to do with rational thought. I like Choi, not because of his potential, not becuase of his patience at the plate, I like him for who he appears to be, a happy guy that works hard to learn a new language. A guy that no teamate has said a bad word about. A guy who is smiling all the time. A guy that has said one thing bad about a bunch a racist numbnuts who critisize him. You want to talk about character, how about sitting while fat 35 year old, and a near sighted catcher play in front of you despite the fact that your the greatest position player ever to emerge from your country.
Back to the numbers, its this simpile, if you think that Choi isnt worth 500 PA a year (not necessarily Big Papi production), your just not paying attention to decades of baseball research. Im sorry but everywhere else on this planet (save for maybe Saudi Arabia) prides themesevles on being on the "cutting edge" of their field, why is baseball different?
2005-11-15 21:35:09
67.   capdodger
53 I'll take it....

48 ...slow in the field...
Choi was a leauge average defensive first baseman. He had several rough plays that got a lot of ink, but worked hard on his defense. By the end of the season, he seemed quite competent with the leather (see the game @ NY Mets).

...slow on the basepaths...
Pardon me, but who the heck cares if he's slow on the basepaths. David Ortiz manages to get around them just fine...

slow at the plate
He generates good bat speed once he gets his hands going,...
Ignoring the internal inconsistency in your argument...
Choi's been working on his approach for the last couple of months since the end of the season. He's moved forward in the batters box and closed up his stance in order to recognise and reach the outside breaking pitch. I'll refer you to the Choi Cenral blog. He's got a ton of power potential

but he's too inconsistant for my likings
Paging Jim Tracy.... Jim Tracy... Hee Seop Choi on line 1...

Plus he bunts well....

2005-11-15 21:35:12
68.   popup
#14, I agree. The Dodger Way as I use the term means to put good people in positions of authority and give them the time and resources to do a job. DePo, though I do not consider myself a saber follower, fit the bill of an intelligent person who should have been given the time and resources to build a team. It is McCourt who is out of step with what I consider the Dodger Way.

I have been a Dodger fan longer than most. I have no problem with giving Colletti a chance. I must say however that it will be difficult for me to accept Hersheiser if he is named manager. The reports of Lasorda running DePo down to other baseball people ring true. I was not there but from what I know of Lasorda it does not sound out of character to me. Orel own his own I have no problem with; Orel going to dinner with McCourt and Lasorda right before the firing of DePo, I have a problem with. Right now I would rather have Ron Wotus than Orel as manager. I would rather have Royster. And I would like Colletti's first trade to be Lasorda and McCourt for a court jester and owner to be named later.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-15 21:37:27
69.   trainwreck
66-
That was a good angry tirade.
2005-11-15 21:39:14
70.   Steve
The fact that Choi is a large Korean explains virtually all of his problem in the baseball world and in the LA media.
2005-11-15 21:40:44
71.   capdodger
69 But not to be out done by 68's stinging rebuke.
2005-11-15 21:43:10
72.   SiGeg
50 -- I'm not disagreeing with your point that, over time, methods that work will become increasingly accepted. But I don't understand your reasoning when you jump from that to the claim that everyone currently in baseball already accepts those methods, or soon will. Some will die or retire (or be pushed out of baseball) without ever accepting it. These shifts can take a generation.

I seriously doubt Colletti got the job by promising not to use statistics or a computer.

I agree. There is no real reason to think that McCourt has anything against a rigorous use of stats, and at least some reason to think that he understand the value of it.

2005-11-15 21:44:10
73.   Bob Timmermann
I don't see 53 and 68 as being in opposition to each other. They are just different viewpoints.
2005-11-15 21:44:34
74.   sanchez101
70. Ive always felt that way, but I try to act rationally and since no one has every said anything blatantly racist, ive stayed away from that kind of explanation. But you know what, i kind of angry, and if "professionals" can make stupid claims why cant I? I like to think im above that, so instead ill just say this, someone please give me a reason not to think this?
2005-11-15 21:45:19
75.   Vishal
i agree wholeheartedly with both [66] and [67], and i will add to the "but he's too inconsistant for my likings" criticism that well, he got played too inconsistently for my likings, and i'm glad that at least so far, jim tracy is long gone and hee seop choi, for the moment, remains. i think that, in addition to what he represents, both in terms of potential and value and also in terms of someone that guys give a lot of unnecessary flak to, i'm a fan of hee seop based on what i've seen and read, and the attitude with which he plays. i think he's a really easy guy to root for and very likeable.
2005-11-15 21:46:15
76.   Nolan
If Colletti had any hand in the Francisco Liriano/Joe Nathan for AJP deal, we've got a problem...

I'm going to give the guy a chance though. I'm also not going to blame a lack of moves on him - when its Feb 15th and we've signed only a couple middler relievers, I'll blame the McCourts...

Lastly, it seems clear that Colletti was the life preserver in this process - the last thing to which the McCourts could cling after everyone else jumped ship...

2005-11-15 21:46:18
77.   Steve
There's no reason not to think that, since that's what it is.

I have an idea. Everyone needs to make a list of all the bad things they've done to people, then go around fixing them. Karma.

2005-11-15 21:48:41
78.   Mark
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
San Francisco Dodgers of Los Angeles
2005-11-15 21:50:44
79.   Telemachos
I admit I'm quite disappointed. That being said, eternal optimist that I am, I'm willing to wait a bit and see what Mr. Ned (bing!) has in mind.

At the very least, I would hope he would try to get up to speed on the Dodger farm system and our quality young studs. I can't necessarily imagine why Ng would stay (particularly if she's courted by other teams), but she would definitely be an anchor bridging the two GM regimes (sadly, the same position she was in during the Evas/DePo transition).

2005-11-15 21:51:23
80.   capdodger
73-
68 and 53 seem to be on different subjects. My post, 71, was comparing the angry tirade of 66 with the icy jab of 69.

In short... We need threaded comments.

2005-11-15 21:51:45
81.   jujibee
54- Maybe inconsistant playing time was rewarded to him for being inconsistant.

63- Choi is slow in the field. By your throwing out the series you choose to throw out, I guess we can throw out the series where he hit the crap out of the ball. Then he hits 9 homers for the year, 1 more than the slugger Dave Roberts hit while playing half of the games at Petco.

66- Wow...I said nothing racist. I just don't think he's the answer for us. I gave my reasons, you disagree, let's just leave it at that. If I'm wrong, you can rub it in my face. I like the fact that he's a good guy trying to do well and be a good teammate and clubhouse presence. I just think he's subpar and his best years are behind him.

66 Uh??? yeah he is slow in the field. Face it. I'm not dissing the guy I'm telling it how it is. He's slow in the field. He can't get to balls that other guys can, and although they don't generate errors, they don't generate outs.
I usually don't care if a firstbaseman is fast on the paths either, I just brought it up to further illustrate the point that he isn't extremely athletic.
He got lucky a few times, but when he face hard throwing pitchers this year he was late if he could catch up to the ball (majority of the time....just so you don't isolate a one at bat to throw at me). He is slow everywhere except after he starts his swing.

Simply said, I don't feel he's the answer for us at first base. Sorry if I step on some toes, but that's how I feel, and if you don't, there's nothing you can do to convince me otherwise.

2005-11-15 21:52:28
82.   sanchez101
Id just like to say that I have nothing against Colletti, I can even forgive him for being part of the Giant org. My beef is with the dumbass that allowed this whole situation to happen: McCourt, Plascke, Simers, Lasorda, Rosenthal, Jim Tracy, Eric Gange's elbow, im sure im missing many people.
Good luck Colletti, may you get a decent chance to prove yourself, but im not holding my breath.
2005-11-15 21:53:41
83.   trainwreck
I announce from now on that I will refer to Ned as Flanders or Ned Flanders.
2005-11-15 21:55:09
84.   trainwreck
80-
There was no icy jab I agree with what he said. I like to read the occasional angry tirade and today seems like a good day to go on one.
2005-11-15 21:55:38
85.   popup
#72, I think it is safe to say everyone in baseball likes statistics. It is not safe to say that everyone in baseball likes the same statistics. Where I think you get the biggest disagreement is that best way to view baseball. Those who want to view baseball only through statistics are in my mind as blind as those who only want to view baseball through their eyes.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-15 21:58:06
86.   Steve
81 - You are missing the point, which is not surprising because you admitted that you are closed-minded and not willing to listen to reason. I am not "throwing out the series." I am explaining that the reason he "looked" slow is that our pitchers were giving up laser beam rockets that were going by him. What you blame on him was the pitchers' fault.

That is not "throwing out that series." That is considering what actually happened in that series, rather than making stuff up, then petulantly whining that there's "nothing we can do to convince you" otherwise. Lord knows, we wouldn't want to try. You got the first baseman you deserve anyway.

2005-11-15 21:59:14
87.   sanchez101
81. my critisisms werent really aimed at you, they were aimed at all the critisism that has been feed to us about Choi. As to the fact that he isnt athletic, he was a multisport athelete in Korea. All the critisisms that your pointing to were said about David Ortiz, not saying Choi will be an MVP candidate, just that these critisism often are hollow. As for his success being lucky, why arent his failure him being unlucky, why doesnt it work both ways. As Tracy using him inconsistintly becuase of inconsistent performance, after Choi had that killer weekend against Minn. and in KC, he was benched for over a week for no reason and with no explanation, while the dodger went through their worse stretch of the season.
2005-11-15 22:00:58
88.   Telemachos
Clearly the first question for Ned is, "Do you like eel?"
2005-11-15 22:06:10
89.   slackfarmer
Here's the real reason Depo was fired: he got along with people too well. Instead of firing everyone when he came in and bringing in his own people, he learned to get along with the Dodger people. Everyone knew that he was going to toss White out on his ear, instead they worked together and produced positive results. He even kept Evan's AGM NG on.

Frank couldn't understand this, "Paul why don't you fire some people every now and again. It's fun, you'll like."

"No Frank, I like the people I have."

"OK then, you're fired."

Flash forward to Colletti's interview. Frank asks, "So what would be your plan to fix the Dodgers?"

"First, I'd fire all of Depo's people."

"Great. You're hired."

2005-11-15 22:08:14
90.   popup
#88, he should say only when the person serving it does not have some weird arm angle. Call me crazy but I think it would be great if Colletti showed up for his press conference in a powdered wig, holding a quill pen. At least we would know we had a GM with a sense of humor.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-15 22:10:16
91.   sanchez101
86. This unwillingness to even consider rational ideas is amazing to me. Why do people pride themeselves on not being the "cutting edge" of baseball? I was thinking about this when I ranted about this issue in 66. You no what, Im a history major, I should be able to draw a historical parallel. It took me about 5 30 seconds: The French Army, prior to WWI, decided that a key component of their tactics would be a reliance on "espri de corp" (i know im spelling that wrong) wich is basically a reliance on the guts, courage, and chemisty of their fighting units. Sound familiar? Meanwhile Germany was focusing on enhancing themeselves from a techological and organizational perspective. Lets just say France, and the world, has never been the same since the first battle of the marne. Never underestimate the length in which irrational thought can take intelligent people.
2005-11-15 22:10:31
92.   jujibee
86 Yup I guess so. Maybe you should re-read my post. I gave my reasons for not touting Choi as most of you do, you just don't get my point. I saw what I saw last year, and there's nothing you can say that will make me think differently than I saw with my own eyes. I don't care about his projections, what he could hit, how he can field, I saw it last year. I know he's young and could get better, I just don't see that happening. I don't know why you take such offense to someone's comments that you don't even know personally, but that's your choice, as it is mine to have as much faith in Choi as I have in Phillips.(which is very little on BOTH players) I think as Dodger fans, we have bigger concerns right now that don't involve what someone did/can/didn't and can't do, based not on logic or rational as sabers put it, and that is what will Coletti, our new prized, bringing the Dodger Tradition right at you, GM bring to this team.
2005-11-15 22:12:12
93.   capdodger
84 - So true....
2005-11-15 22:13:55
94.   jujibee
87- I agree. I think it was because Tracy wanted to dig his way out of Dodger blue because he thought Depo would still be here. Why else would a manager wanting to win bech a streaky player who was hot at the time.
2005-11-15 22:15:14
95.   popup
#91, only problem with your argument sanchez is that the Germans did not win that particular war or the one that followed it thank God.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-15 22:16:04
96.   underdog
I'm not really sure I understand the funereal tone I see with some reactions here to the Colletti hiring, or maybe I do. Although I'm in the "give him a chance, have heard good things" camp, I also know we're probably all seriously underconfident in McCourt's ability to make a good decision about anything, so just about anybody he hired (save Ng?) would be questioned. The fact remains that we don't know all that much about him, and as an asst. GM we don't know all that much about which decisions were his, or partially his, or... what. I do know that up here in the Bay Area (for what it's worth...) he was well respected and people seem sorry to see him go. Nationally, among many people in baseball, he's respected as a good negotiator and pretty bright. (I, too, hope it was more Sabean's call than his when they traded some of their bright prospects over the last few years. Then again, I thought their trade for Wynn was stupid, but it looked better as the year wore on...)

So... we all have a right to be nervous. Or a right to feel whatever we want to feel. But without knowing much other than the above, and despite the fact that he's a former Giant, I'm willing to try optimism for once.

Until he does some stupid things (like trade too many top prospects for veterans) and my hope is dashed against the rocks like a rickety ship.

That said, I, too, wish McC had just done the right honorable thing and hired Ng.

C

2005-11-15 22:18:07
97.   Steve
I saw what I saw last year, and there's nothing you can say that will make me think differently than I saw with my own eyes

Your argument laid out in three posts:

Choi is slow.

Choi is slow.

I think Choi is slow.

That is not an argument. That is a conclusion and it is self-admittedly based on your preconceived biases. It has neither a beginning, a middle and only tangentially an end. It offends me because it is the perfect example of what "statheads" or "sabers" are almost always falsely accused of -- an unfailing belief in their own correctness. And yet "sabers," who at least attempt to hold themselves to some kind of intellectual rigor, are derided, while you and Plaschke make bald, uncontrovertable assertions, based on nothing but sensory perceptions that would be derided in any setting other than baseball.

In other words, you offend me because you embody that which deserves criticism, but does not receive it.

2005-11-15 22:18:12
98.   Bob Timmermann
95

The French in WWI were helped out by a key late-season acquisition by a shrewd front office. The Central Powers stood pat and tried to win with a veteran group. Sort of like the Mariners in 2002.

2005-11-15 22:18:36
99.   capdodger
92 - We get your point. You think Choi is as mobile as a tree. It's just that many of us think that point is ( hogwash || not supported by evidence|| irrelevant || racially motivated bias). It's not that we don't understand you; we just don't belive you. [sarc] It's a very fine distinction.[/sarc]
2005-11-15 22:20:35
100.   capdodger
98 Just what I was going to say, only so much more... baseballish.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-11-15 22:26:14
101.   Steve
Now Catfish Stew is taunting us. Hey, half of us are A's fans over here!
2005-11-15 22:31:07
102.   jujibee
97 Well I'm glad we're getting somewhere with this one. Consider this situation: a ball hit right at a Professional first baseman and he doesn't come up with it on several occasions, is the pitchers fault for this Professional not to come up with it, not even once in three times. How rational is that??? So i guess you base your rational thoughts on what you see in the stat lines, and that becasue he was so slow to as even touch the ball it didn't generate something you can see in an error. That's a great argument. I think I'll just leave it at this, which is I don't think he will pan out, not because I long for a player he was traded for as I fully supported that trade, but because I have a hunch he will not pan out. People become millionaires based on hunches....is that rational?
2005-11-15 22:31:08
103.   popup
World War I was closer. I really don't know how the Allies won World War II. I wonder if there is some sort of saber like analysis of past wars. Historians I guess have always used stats, but is there the equivilant of a saber group looking at past wars with new statistical lines of inquiry?

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-15 22:36:53
104.   Bob Timmermann
In World War II, the U.S. really decided to go for a big inning type of offense toward the end.
2005-11-15 22:36:57
105.   Steve
If you would just like to create some kind of "auto-text" which says "Choi is slow," you could save yourself a lot of nonsense, and you wouldn't even have to lie.
2005-11-15 22:37:02
106.   Telemachos
103 I'm no history whiz, but from what I've read Germany's only chance with WWI was to have it be a quick war. The Schefflin plan: sweeping through Belgium and taking out Paris before the Russians could fully mobilize and all that. As soon as the war bogged down and the Germans were fighting two fronts, they were essentially fighting a losing battle, and when the US entered the war, that was the final blow.

To a lesser extent, the same is true of World War II -- the huge industrial might of the US, once mobilized, essentially doomed the Germans once they couldn't take out the Soviets, leaving them (again) fighting a two-front war with a might of US industry entering the fray.

2005-11-15 22:37:22
107.   Vishal
it's hard to analyze war based on statistics because there are no rules, and there are way too many variables.
2005-11-15 22:38:12
108.   Baseballistic Ben
Oh god not this Choi-sucks-on-defense &^%$ again. Cubs scouts predicted he'd win a Gold Glove or two some day. Choi's defense was thoroughly praised before he came to LA. This myth of crappy-D-Choi is a fabrication of the LA media and a populace of fans all-too-willing to believe that a big Korean guy probably ain't the most athletic guy in the world.
2005-11-15 22:41:32
109.   sanchez101
103.107. Unlike baseball, history (and by extension most, if not all acadmenic subjects) is always looking for new ways to analyze old events, and new ideas are welcome, not discouraged.
2005-11-15 22:42:07
110.   Underbruin
In the words of Eddie Izzard:

"Hitler never played "Risk" when he was a kid...! 'Cause, you know, playing "Risk," you could never hold on to Asia. That Asian-Eastern European area, you could never hold it, could you? Seven extra men at the beginning of every go, but you couldn't fucking hold it! Australasia, that was the one! Australasia, all the purple ones! Get everyone on Papua New Guinea and just build up and build up..."

2005-11-15 22:43:09
111.   sanchez101
Is there some way we can get the Korean community activists to get behind Choi and make some sort of public rukus so that maybe the Dodgers are forced to keep him to not look racially insensitive?
2005-11-15 22:45:48
112.   Underbruin
111 Hehe, yeah - a Korean Jesse Jackson... An NKACP, instead of the NAACP...
2005-11-15 22:47:05
113.   Underbruin
112 NAAKP, not NKACP. I'm retarded.
2005-11-15 22:48:57
114.   underdog
Oh god, not this Choi [insert opinion of Choi here] again.

I'm really glad my Broncos are (so far!) having a good season , then I can care less about a lot of this stuff and wait 'til spring training again to really care...

2005-11-15 22:50:11
115.   Xeifrank
105. jubilee = Plaschke's nephew?
I think Steve already got the KO in the first round. Fight is over, time to move on. vr, Xei
2005-11-15 22:53:00
116.   sanchez101
114. thanks, rub in the fact that no LA has no NFL team.
2005-11-15 22:55:44
117.   Steve
http://cardnilly.com/?p=89

Of course FJT was right on this. Because FJT actually bothered to watch games instead of just mouth platitudes and absurdities.

2005-11-15 22:56:15
118.   trainwreck
I am Raider fan so... yeah waiting for the off-season AGAIN.
2005-11-15 22:59:55
119.   sanchez101
117. I guess your not a real fan, in fact I can already hear the whispers Lasorda is telling about how you're not a real dodger.
2005-11-15 23:00:35
120.   Jon Weisman
Some, if not most, of this discussion is pretty good. Some of it ... is as knee-jerk or excessive as the stuff people here criticize the mainstream press for.
2005-11-15 23:00:56
121.   Steve
Yes, platitudes and absurdities are an unwelcome part of the Dodger package.
2005-11-15 23:05:48
122.   Bob Timmermann
Not on topic of much of anything here, but in tonight's episode of "House", one of the main characters was shown reading an old Bill James Baseball Abstract during the show. It wasn't Hugh Laurie. I wonder if you gave a Brit that book and had him read it if he could make heads or tails out of it.
2005-11-15 23:08:50
123.   trainwreck
I was explaining the sabremetric vs old baseball views debate to my Korean Cyborg seminar teacher. He was asking us if any of us were interested in math in real life in any way and I brought up baseball.
2005-11-15 23:15:20
124.   Xeifrank
123. Well....... what was his response?????
vr, Xei
2005-11-15 23:18:20
125.   trainwreck
Oh he just said it was interesting haha.
2005-11-15 23:29:46
126.   Bob Timmermann
I know Steve Henson thought his lead was clever ...

"It's not yet a pipeline on par with the California Aqueduct, but the Dodgers have again tapped into the Bay Area for a general manager."

But has he ever looked at a map to see where the California Aqueduct goes?

If the Dodgers were hiring GMs from Sacramento, that would be one thing.

2005-11-15 23:31:35
127.   Xeifrank
125. Did you mention baseball's use of the pythagorean theorem and the usefulness of linear regression? Did you tell him that OPS above all other offensive stats has the highest correlation to runs scored? Or how some "old school" baseball managers work from the formula...
Runs Created = (scrappy plays grass stains) + (3 number of goggles worn)
vr, Xei
2005-11-15 23:32:59
128.   Xeifrank
126. His analogy should've been the San Andreas fault. Or the McCourt fault on this one. The McCourt fault runs right through the veins of true blue Dodger fans. vr, Xei
2005-11-15 23:33:04
129.   dzzrtRatt
I was trying to figure out this evening why I wasn't more upset by the hiring of Colletti, and it's this: Colletti is 50. He's a grown up. He's dealt with at least two other crazy/stupid owners. I think there's a better chance that this guy can stand up to the McCourts on behalf of the baseball team's quality than was the case with DePodesta, or would've been with Ng. Ng should leave (don't go to Boston though! Equally bad situation there for a young exec), and hone her skills. Or stay, and let Colletti give her cover.

Colletti may not pass the test of ideological purity, and his hiring might be giving the press yet another angle to distort sabremetrics, but he seems smart enough to act on good information, and tough and mature enough to face down the idiots who just hired him.

2005-11-15 23:34:11
130.   Xeifrank
Sports radio rumor when they announced the hiring of Colletti, was that Orel Hershiser would be named manager... and that beer and pizza was on Tommy. vr, Xei
2005-11-15 23:35:16
131.   popup
#106, if you look at how bad the U.S. economy was as late as 1940, it was not a given that the Allies would win the war even with all the mistakes the Germans made.

I have not said anything about Choi for the excellent reason I have seen very little of him. I don't see the Dodgers much since I am not in a National League city. However, I really wonder why people are bringing up race when they are defending him. If I make critical comments about Chan Ho Park (a player I have seen and don't much like), am I going to be called a racist?

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-15 23:37:28
132.   Xeifrank
Has there been any announcement on the length of Colletti's contract? vr, Xei
2005-11-15 23:39:41
133.   underdog
116. Sorry. But hey, I live in San Francisco and we currently don't have an NFL team either. ;-)

(Why someone from SoCal who has only been to Denver twice is a Broncos fan since childhood is a long boring story not worth repeating.)

2005-11-15 23:42:40
134.   Xeifrank
I for one as a die-hard southern California sports fan am at no love loss for us not having an NFL team in the greater LA area. Why would we need one when USC/UCLA are something like 17-1 combined this year and USC is on the verge of winning it's 3rd national title in a row. Plus, we got the LA Galaxy and the up and coming Clippers! :)
The NFL? No Thanks. The last memory I have of having the Rams and Raiders were all the blacked out games. vr, Xei
2005-11-15 23:45:29
135.   sanchez101
131. Its not so much that I actually think that all those that are critical of Choi are racist. It just that there are many "professionals" who rely on a bunch of weak critical arguments concerning Choi, and then for no ryme or reason refuse to listed to anything to the contrary, to the point that they look like fools, what am I supposed to think. Im just looking for an explanation to tell me why they are acting that way. Racism is the only reason that I can come up with, Id like to hear other explanations.
2005-11-15 23:48:21
136.   Steve
135 - ditto. The extent of the irrationality requires an equally irrational explanation.
2005-11-15 23:49:06
137.   das411
To further beat the WWII analogies to death...

The Soviet Union, 1941-5 = Scott Erickson?

106 - Another history major here, very well-said but it was really only a two front war for less than a year.

Any attempts at statistical analysis would do well to start here: http://www.worldwar-2.net/casualties/world-war-2-casualties-index.htm or http://tinyurl.com/bsd32

One of the casualty #s jumps out at you:
France = appx 500,000
Germany = 6,500,000
Britain = 360,000
Italy = 465,000
Japan = 2,300,000
USA = 400,000
USSR = 21,200,000

2005-11-15 23:51:27
138.   Uncle Miltie
I remember Ralph praising Depodesta (when he was in his first year). Maybe he was just commenting that the new GM is more traditional. Mike Smith (the Clippers color commentary guy) is also a baseball fan (I'm pretty sure he's a Dodgers fan).

Clippers win again

2005-11-16 00:12:41
139.   Kilgore Trout
A number of people have concluded that Colletti has non-sabermetric leanings, based on statements he's made about the importance of statistics.

All GMs have to look at non-statistical information to make rational decisions - a player's potential is not always reflected in his past performance (true for both young players and past-their-prime players).

The question is not what importance he attributes to statistics, but what statistics he looks at - e.g., stolen bases or on-base percentage.

2005-11-16 00:17:21
140.   molokai
Clippers rocked. Smacked the Bucks by over 30 points. Looking forward to Friday night.

I'm looking at Ned with a clean slate. I can't give him credit or blame him for whatever happened while he was the assistant GM. He didn't get to make decisions which is why assistants aspire to become their own person in all walks of life. He's now free to create his own path and match wits against his old master. On the plus side I don't owe anyone drinks this summer. I'm optimistic because we didn't hire a retread like Hart or Bowden. Yes he's not an inspired choice but neither was Ng.

2005-11-16 00:51:50
141.   coachjpark
The "Hee Seop Choi" chant at Dodger Stadium was one of the few exciting recurrences last year and I remember several games being incensed when Tracy trotted out Phillips to first base instead of Choi. Now, I'm also Korean, but I'd like to think that my Koreanosity isn't the reason behind my wanting Choi in the lineup. Dude's a huge, left-handed hitting power hitter. These kinds of guys are somewhat of a scarce item and should be played for a full season.

With Colletti, I'm pretty much of the opinion of DodgerThought Nation... "Let's give the guy a chance... but why not give Ng a shot? Why a Giant? Let's hope this guy doesn't screw up the farm system... Neifi Perez??? (Sigh)

2005-11-16 00:59:13
142.   natepurcell
from plaschkes article:

"Second, the Logan White factor.

The Dodger scouting director is the star of the organization, having built one of baseball's best low-level minor league systems, with last year's double-A Jacksonville club voted the minors' best.

Look for White to become one of Colletti's top evaluators, moving up perhaps even as assistant general manager, a situation that will work because Colletti will listen.

That's the thing about being 50 instead of 32. You know that you don't know it all. Colletti understands this, and will probably surround himself with smart people who will only make him look better."

if colletti actually does this, i will be VERY IMPRESSED and happy.

2005-11-16 01:00:33
143.   jasonungar05
this is what I am clinging onto at 1 AM. Shawn Green is the first salary, Bonds the second.

2000 $9,416,667
2001 $12,166,667
2002 $13,416,667
2003 $15,666,667
2004 $16,666,667

2000 $10,658,826
2001 $10,300,000
2002 $15,000,000
2003 $15,500,000
2004 $18,000,000

2005-11-16 01:01:53
144.   Steve
Nate, remember what Plaschke had to say about the minor leaguers not more than two months ago? Someone with LEXIS want to help us out here?
2005-11-16 01:03:50
145.   jasonungar05
seriously? i am speechless.

Months after the last Dodger regime traded Paul Lo Duca, Colletti worked out a Giant contract for Mike Matheny.

While the last Dodger regime didn't see the value in Adrian Beltre, Colletti was signing Omar Vizquel.

2005-11-16 01:06:13
146.   Steve
That's the thing about being 50 instead of 32. You know that you don't know it all. Colletti understands this, and will probably surround himself with smart people who will only make him look better."

You mean, surround himself with people...like Logan White? Who was DePodesta surrounded by? Logan White!

Plaschke at his absolute worst.

2005-11-16 01:22:23
147.   fanerman
I'm just so sad... I'm afraid everything I've been fearing is going to come true. I know that last sentence makes no sense because really I was thinking that before. But now it's one step closer. I don't want to say goodbye to Choi, JtD, Billingsley, et al. I know nothing's happened yet, but from what I heard about Colletti (the BP interview, the Giants history), that's all I can think about.
2005-11-16 01:22:40
148.   EricN
For a number of mostly obvious reasons, I was rooting hard for a Kim Ng hiring. It just made sense on so many levels.

That said, I have formed no opinion of Ned Colletti. Except that I agree on the Flanders thing, especially with that 'stache.

What really hurts about this is is that for me, today is the culmination of years of Murdoch/McCourt misery. In fact, I think this has been the most painful day of my life as a sports fan. I may only be 19, but it really hurts for me to look at what the Dodger organization has become.

2005-11-16 01:36:26
149.   fanerman
The irrationality that so-called "professionals" exhibit (see Plaschke, Bill) is astounding. I feel so powerless and so frustrated with the last month. I only let myself be so emotionally invested because DePo was at the helm and Logan White and Kim Ng were onboard at a time when I needed to be emotionally invetsed in something. Now I'm completely in shock. I'm going to have a lot of trouble sleeping tonight. I shouldn't think of images of JtD, Hee Seop Choi, et al in Toronto or Minnesota uniforms, but all I can think of are images like that. I doubt I'll ever get so emotionally invested in the Dodgers again. But I was so excited. Now I feel like I've fallen off a cliff.
2005-11-16 01:51:38
150.   Steve
I don't usually do this, but I stayed up to write it, so someone might as well read it.

http://firejimbowden.blogspot.com/2005/11/one-more-for-road.html

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-11-16 01:57:48
151.   fanerman
Thanks Steve.
2005-11-16 02:22:18
152.   fanerman
I can't sleep...
2005-11-16 02:23:49
153.   Eric L
Months after the last Dodger regime traded Paul Lo Duca, Colletti worked out a Giant contract for Mike Matheny.

I'm not sure that I can fault Colletti for doing the leg work on the Matheny or Vizquel contracts. Side note.. Vizquel was a bit better than Izturis this year and wasn't that much more expensive.

Sure, if it came out somewhere that he swayed Sabean to sign the guys, then Dodger fans might have problem. Until I hear something different, I'm going to reserve judgement on the guy.

I think even if we don't agree with the Colletti move, I'm not sure that we should badmouth the guy until he actually does something stupid. If he trades Laroche, Guzman, et al for the rotting corpse of Sammy Sosa (I know Sosa is a free agent, just using it as an example) or something like that, then we can start judging him.

I'm afraid if I judge him before I really even know anything about the dude than I will be just as bad as Plaschke (if not worse, because I know better).

2005-11-16 02:26:48
154.   fanerman
I'm trying to reserve judgment. I'm just in a very depressed state right now.
2005-11-16 02:27:45
155.   slackfarmer
153 While I agree with you that it is too early to judge Colletti, most posters are not judging him -- they are judging the McCourts.

To fire a perfectly good GM and subject the team to days of limbo only to hire a guy who might be OK but probably won't isn't a smart move.

2005-11-16 02:28:26
156.   slackfarmer
152 Nor can I.
2005-11-16 02:32:01
157.   Eric L
154

I wasn't happy when I was at my parent's house earlier tonight and Fred Roggin broke the news. I think I said a few curses...

Then I went over to my girlfriend's condo and I promised her a couple of weeks ago that I wouldn't talk about my anger with the Dodgers when she was around. It sort of helped me forget about the Colletti thing and all that good stuff...

2005-11-16 02:33:23
158.   Eric L
155 Don't get me wrong.. the McCourt's still get the "powerful stupid" award.

My fandom just hopes they lucked into a guy that it is more than meets the eye.

2005-11-16 02:36:47
159.   slackfarmer
158 I hear you. Hope can't hurt. But as fanerman said in 149, I doubt I'll be as excited about Dodger baseball as I was these past couple of years.
2005-11-16 03:24:41
160.   bokonon42
Kim Ng has to leave, now, right? This is the second consecutive outside AGM to get the big job, over her. She's celebrated passover four times in the last two years.

Henceforth, I'll be hoping not that the Dodgers' front office be the smartest in the MLB, but the luckiest. One in thirty shot, right? Who's to say Big Ned hasn't got the magic touch?

2005-11-16 05:43:14
161.   SMY
I just hope that Colletti doesn't share Sabean's philosophy on roster construction. And the fact that the mainstream media seems to universally approve of this hire makes me uneasy. But if it all blows up, it's not like we didn't see it all coming, right?
2005-11-16 05:44:38
162.   CT Bum
I'm cautiously pessimistic also. I'm hoping for the best, but I've lost faith that McJester can make a sound baseball decision.

Let's hope Ned (oops...I'm calling him by his first name...I guess I am a Ned-backer) was against the oldies station format the Giants have programmed.

I'm holding off falling into a deep depression until I see his managerial hire (or McJester's). I then hold the right to go screaming into the night.

2005-11-16 06:18:54
163.   SMY
For those of you who can't read that Buster Olney blog about picking the Dodgers to win the division, it's incredibly lame. Considering he spent all year bashing DePodesta's moves, he writes this:

"But the Dodgers aren't as far off as their '05 failure indicates. I didn't like a lot of the moves that ex-GM Paul DePodesta made, but nobody can pass fair judgment on his decisions based on what happened last year, because of the huge volume of injuries the team suffered. More than 1,300 days were lost to the disabled list.

"Imagine the Yankees if they lost Mariano Rivera, Hideki Matsui and Derek Jeter," one talent evaluator said. "That's basically what the situation with (the Dodgers) was." Imagine the Chicago White Sox without Paul Konerko, Juan Uribe and Mark Buehrle."

He then goes on to say this:

"The Dodgers do need to land one major bat -- maybe it'll be someone like Alfonso Soriano -- and a starter, like a Kevin Millwood. And if one or two of the Jacksonville graduates play effectively at the big-league level next year, and the Dodgers get merely solid results from a couple of the key veterans (Drew, perhaps, and Penny), it's very possible that Los Angeles will supplant San Diego as division champion."

2005-11-16 06:22:05
164.   TheDictator
Anybody know what books Colletti wrote?
2005-11-16 06:25:41
165.   SMY
Hee hee.

http://www.sbsun.com/sports/ci_3221773

2005-11-16 06:36:46
166.   SiGeg
Good morning everyone.

So, has it happened yet?

Has Colletti traded Billingsley, Guzman, Laroche, Tiffany and Martin for Mike Matheny and a lump of stale sourdough, been fired by McCourt, and gone running back to his old job in SF with an evil gleam in his eye?

No, not yet you say? Oh, right -- he's probably waiting to be introduced at the press conference first. : )

2005-11-16 06:41:19
167.   Penarol1916
I am in absolutely no mood to give anybody a chance today. Stupid Australia winning on penalty kicks, what the hell do they know about soccer anyway?
2005-11-16 07:32:44
168.   King of the Hobos
So if I understand Plaschke correctly, Colletti was actually the GM of the Giants, and Sabean was just a figurehead? As opposed to be the 2nd hand guy who gave advice and negotiated the contracts.
2005-11-16 07:40:14
169.   Bob Timmermann
167
When Uruguay and Australia get together, you have to expect the unexpected.
2005-11-16 07:42:57
170.   Colorado Blue
Boy was I wrong... and here I was trying to give McCourt some credit for using Colletti as a smoke-screen.
2005-11-16 07:44:08
171.   Bob Timmermann
From the Daily News
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3220742
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3220698
2005-11-16 07:44:14
172.   fanerman
170 - McCourt isn't clever enough for that.
2005-11-16 07:49:58
173.   fanerman
I think I'll be calling him Ned. It's easier to type. Maybe Crasnick will think I like him. Maybe I actually will.
2005-11-16 07:59:49
174.   zappala
164 You Gotta Have Heart: Dallas Green's Rebuilding of the Cubs, by Ned Colletti

http://www.microsoftinternational.com/item/1_0912083115_1_7_2_index.html

He also wrote:

"Cub Fan Mania", Bob Ibach and Ned Colletti, a pictorial of baseball's most dedicated and vocal fans.

"Thanks for Listening", Jack Brickhouse, Jack Rosenberg, Ned Colletti, a history of the Cubs

"Golden Glory: Notre Dame Vs Purdue", Ned Colletti

2005-11-16 08:11:45
175.   Colorado Blue
Yup, Ned's gonna trade the farm for the old, lovable veterans. We will lose, but be lovable losers. The fans will come because the Dodgers are, well, so lovable.

And Frank will get his 3.2MIL attendance.

Sorry for the pessimism. I had to get the emotional, irrational aspect of this thing out of my system... I want to be like Jon and not jump to conclusions, but I'm just not as good a man.

2005-11-16 08:21:26
176.   Penarol1916
The books he's written leave me with even less hope. Referring to Cubs fans as the most dedicated in the game rather than 50% dedicated, 50% there just to say that their at Wrigley makes me believe that he is either a huge company stooge or has stunningly poor powers of observation. Anyone who sees anything about Notre Dame / Purdue as worth writing about has got to be completely insane. Maybe after I've accepted Uruguay's loss to those stupid Aussie's on penalty kicks I can be more positive, but until then Colletti is just something that made a bad day worse.
2005-11-16 08:32:15
177.   Bob Timmermann
I think Colletti's book are indicative of him writing books that would be popular in a certain part of the country and might make him some money and that's about it.

He was in PR at the time. He was looking to pick up some extra scratch.

I never knew we had fans of Uruguay here. You know, it's not like Uruguay has never won a World Cup before.

2005-11-16 08:41:50
178.   Penarol1916
Yeah, Notre Dame / Purdue isn't popular in any part of the country, even Indiana.
As for winning the World Cup, although Uruguay still has the talent it is completely disfunctional thanks to agent Paco Casal, who makes Scott Boras look like a saint and keeps any player that he doesn't represent off the national squad, also for some reason I can't remember back to 1950.
2005-11-16 08:43:21
179.   Baseballistic Ben
Oh well, at least NC isn't Bowden. The way things have gone lately, I'm just glad that the worst case scenario didn't happen.
2005-11-16 08:43:55
180.   fanerman
So... anybody going to be watching the press conference and posting at the same time?
2005-11-16 08:43:56
181.   Bob Timmermann
The Miracle at Maracana! One of the biggest upsets in sports! It's one thing to beat the favorite. It's a whole other to beat them when playing them on the road before a crowd of 200,000!

Where's my time machine?

2005-11-16 08:54:16
182.   Penarol1916
181. And also to beat the favorite when all they needed was a tie to win the world title, the Maracanazo as they call it in Uruguay.
2005-11-16 09:00:18
183.   Bob Timmermann
Uruguay Thoughts - Penarol1916's way of psychologically dealing with the Uruguayan National Soccer Team.
2005-11-16 09:04:17
184.   Bob Timmermann
And since Penaral1916 might be the only person I have to worry about here, I am recording the Bahrain-T&T game: SO NO SPOILING THE ENDING.
2005-11-16 09:14:53
185.   RELX
Being fairly new to this board, I know that most people here are fans of sabermetrics, and therefore were fans of DePodesta. To be honest, while I understand and agree with some of the sabr-stuff, the obession with it confuses me. Other than Billy Beane, has any team won consistently using this philosophy?

There has been alot of criticism of the Colleti hiring based on the fact that he is "old school." The fact of the matter is that the Giants have been a better team over the past ten years then the Dodgers have. While I am not saying that Colleti will necessarily be a good GM, and I don't have great faith in the McCourts, I think people are going overboard. No offense to DePodesta, but he did tear apart a pennant-winning team, the result being they won 71 games this year. While I don't think it was bad to get rid of Beltre, Green, Finley, Lima, LoDuca, the problem was that DePodesta never adequately replaced them. We basically had no catcher or third basemen in 2005. And, DePodesta got lucky in 2004 when Brazoban and Gararra stepped up to fill the hole created by the departure of Mota. Plus, DePodesta blew up the team as if they were a last place team that needed rebuilding, not a good team that needed retooling. And as far as saving $, I don't really care if our payroll is $100 million or $75 million, as long as we win. All this "Hee Seop Choi would save us so much money" means nothing to me, as the bottom line is only of concern to Frank McCourt, and if he can't handle a $100 million payroll, like he said he could when he bought the team, he is a liar.

I was very concerned that DePodesta was going to hire a two-time loser like Collins to be the manager. People might hate Tracy here, but he did win around 90 games consistenly.

And I don't undertand the almost religious faith here that when the entire Jacksonville team comes up in 2007, a Dodger dynasty will be created. First of all, most prospects don't make it--two years ago, Edwin Jackson, Greg Miller and Joel Hanrahan were the can't miss Dodger prospects. Well, whatever happened to Hanrahan? Miller got hurt, and i am concerned about Jackson because he doesn't strike out people anymore. And even if every prospect from Jacksonville panned out, it would take them a few years of experience to become quality major leaguers, which means you are looking at a winning team in 2009/2010, best case scenario.

I very much enjoy this board, and most of the comments are interesting and provocative, I just don't understand the unquestioning love for DePodesta, and the feeling of dread that comes with the hiring of Colleti.

2005-11-16 09:15:29
186.   Penarol1916
Don't worry, I'm staying away from soccer results for the rest of the day. Most people were pulling for the Aussies and I won't be able to stand the comments about that result to stomach visiting any websites.
2005-11-16 09:21:57
187.   Im So Blue
The news conference is on FSNW right now... the first word out of McCourt's mouth was "chemistry"
2005-11-16 09:22:57
188.   brandesh
i counted 9 "chemistry's"
2005-11-16 09:26:07
189.   SMY
And, DePodesta got lucky in 2004 when Brazoban and Gararra stepped up to fill the hole created by the departure of Mota.

"Got lucky" or "realized he could replace Mota and use him to get something else they needed?"

2005-11-16 09:26:36
190.   JJoeScott
Did Ned just say "Great Christian"? Not that there's anything wrong with that ...
2005-11-16 09:26:37
191.   Kayaker7
185 I think people would find flaws with this statement: "No offense to DePodesta, but he did tear apart a pennant-winning team, the result being they won 71 games this year." A large part of the reason for the poor year was injuries. Even McCourt acknowledged that prior to firing DePodesta.

I don't think people have a religious devotion to DePo. Only speaking for myself, I'd much rather have people making decisions based on data, rather than gut feel. The Giants may very well have been doing that. As a Baseball Prospectus article pointed out a while back, the Giants seem to have been practicing "Moneyball" of sorts, by getting older players who were undervalued in relation to their performance.

2005-11-16 09:29:16
192.   Curtis Lowe
Is McCourt Slinking around in the backround?
2005-11-16 09:29:53
193.   still bevens
188 Dear Bill Plaschke,

Please love me.

Love,
Frank M.

2005-11-16 09:33:09
194.   Telemachos
185 My two cents....

J.P. Riccardi (Blue Jays), Theo Epstein (Red Sox) have had reasonable success. And certainly the A's are in a class of their own in terms of competing for a division championship every year despite a tiny payroll and player turnover.

Colletti: I'll try to stay neutral until I get a better sense of the guy from some actual transactions... but what does he offer that Ng did not? One comes from the "Dodger tradition" and years of success with the Yankees (which certainly trumps Colletti's more modest successes with the Giants). However, I'm willing to wait and see with Ned... I just don't have much faith in McCourt's decision-making right now.

As for DePo, his "dismantling" of the 2004 division-winner was a success.... Beltre, Finley, Lima, etc all had poor years (well, Beltre's year was mediocre). You could argue that he should've prepared more for injuries, I suppose, but the reality is that the 2005 Dodger team is an enigma -- we'll never know whether DePo's choices would have been successful with a healthy team. And it's also worth pointing out that the mainstream media doesn't seem to hold the Giants' injuries against Colletti for their weaker-than-expected 2005 season.

I think it's fair to fault DePo for trading Lo Duca when he didn't have a solid starting catcher ready to step in (although Ross looked like he might have been the guy, beforehand), and his signing of Valentin really was a huge bust. But other than that, I can't see how he gets anything other than an "incomplete": a lot of the pieces he brought in were showing promise, and with a healthy J.D. Drew, Milton Bradley, and Gagne we probably win the division regardless.

But, most importantly, it just doesn't make sense to fire him: not when you're supposedly trying to bring stability to the team, not when you've brought him in for a 5-year plan and then give him only 20 months, and especially not when you let him start the process of bringing in a manager he's comfortable with then canning him later.

2005-11-16 09:33:11
195.   Curtis Lowe
He doesnt like the corners of the Infield.
2005-11-16 09:33:49
196.   Steve
Craven (adj.) - Characterized by abject fear; cowardly.
2005-11-16 09:34:07
197.   SMY
185 For most people, it's not a devotion to DePo per se, it's that we liked the fact that the organization seemed to have a plan and was moving toward running the team intelligently, rather than continuing with the "throw a bunch of money at mediocre free agents because they have played the game for a long time and everyone knows who they are" plan that many teams employ, and had gotten the Dodgers nowhere for several years up to this point.
2005-11-16 09:34:39
198.   Rob M
185 Thanks for a reasonable and thoughtful presentation of a dissenting view. Now, to counter a few things you said. DePodesta blew up a penant winning team, but it was a team that he likely believed would fall into serious decline without major rebuilding. Considering the seasons that Beltre, Finley, Lima, Lo Duca, Mota, Cora all had in 2005, I'd say he was right in that assumption.

As to your point about Brazoban and Carrara being lucky replacements for Mota, I'd say that DePodesta reasonably foresaw Mota's poor second half and figured his innings would be easily replaced in-house.

As to Choi, I think most of us just think that his low price tag is a bonus. At any price, he's a young power hitter with excellent plate discipline that has been projected for stardom by scouts and sabremetric types alike. Young hitters with excellent strike zone judgement and lots of power usually become very good hitter. See, Ortiz, Bonds, Thome, ManRam, etc.

As to the reliance on Sabr style management - Boston is a second team that has had success with this style. I'd say many teams are using aspects of the style in their roster building. Most of us are just afraid of the type of GM that would totally disdain statistical analysis. There are some of those guys out there still.

2005-11-16 09:34:59
199.   brandesh
"In SF we were not afraid to trade young players..." AAAGGGHHH!!!
2005-11-16 09:35:13
200.   JJoeScott
195 Yep, he cited the corners, the outfield could be improved, and the starting pitching.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-11-16 09:35:15
201.   Im So Blue
Says his strategy is to improve immediately whether through trade or free agency. But he is aware of the hot prospects in the minors; talked to Logan White, says some of the young guys have superstar potential and will give them time to develop. No, he's not going to trade them all away.
2005-11-16 09:35:34
202.   zappala
He doesn't sound like a guy who will immediately jettison the minor leaguers for just any warm body. He does seem willing to trade "good" minors for a talented major leaguer, but isn't willing ot trade the "great" minors. The devil is of course in the details.
2005-11-16 09:37:24
203.   Curtis Lowe
He's a pretty good conversationalist. <--- is that a word?
2005-11-16 09:38:04
204.   Steve
Mota was a lucky replacement for Mota. That's what you do with relief pitchers, get lucky.
2005-11-16 09:38:49
205.   Curtis Lowe
Nice backstory.
2005-11-16 09:39:22
206.   brandesh
Is it a coincidence that Colletti is Italian?
2005-11-16 09:40:41
207.   JJoeScott
Neddy sounds like the New York version of McCourt, in hearing his story. No wonder Frank mentioned in the first minute that he felt an immediate connection.
2005-11-16 09:40:55
208.   Curtis Lowe
Tommy comments on this in his Latest MLBLoG.
2005-11-16 09:41:32
209.   zappala
DING DING. "Chemistry is a by-product of winning."

Yet ... "character is important."

2005-11-16 09:42:06
210.   JJoeScott
Oooh ... He just called out J.D. Drew and Odalis Perez. "(You can't win) if your players can't go 140, 150 games."
2005-11-16 09:42:42
211.   Im So Blue
207 except Colletti grew up poor, and Frank grew up rich...
2005-11-16 09:45:19
212.   Jesse
210...

"Oooh ... He just called out J.D. Drew and Odalis Perez. "(You can't win) if your players can't go 140, 150 games"

unless that player has a penchant for getting on base 6 out of ten times or so...

2005-11-16 09:49:04
213.   Steve
Says his strategy is to improve immediately whether through trade or free agency.

Wow, he's obviously put a lot of thought into this. Does his strategy include a nine man lineup and the use of a round ball?

2005-11-16 09:49:49
214.   zappala
It seems to me that a big reason Colletti was hired is that he emphasizes character. I suspect McCourt does not want his brand tarnished by Bradley or any other player who creates bad publicity. Colletti explicitly said he would pass over someone with more talent if he didn't have good character. This says to me the owner doesn't care if he wins if the team is shown in a bad light. Some here might not like it, but that's his prerogative.
2005-11-16 09:51:19
215.   zappala
Big points scored when asked later by the Fox reporter about his philosophy -- "old school, new school, I don't think you shut off any school." He further said that statistical analysis isn't everything, but it is part of the mix. I'm pretty impressed the Fox team even knew to ask these questions.
2005-11-16 09:52:20
216.   SMY
208 The intern that plays Tommy's ghostwriter sucks.
2005-11-16 09:53:40
217.   Im So Blue
He says he met with Kim Ng last night and hopes to continue having her with the Dodgers.
2005-11-16 09:53:54
218.   zappala
More good news ... asked directly about Ng ... "I don't think there's going to be any change with Kim".
2005-11-16 09:58:45
219.   still bevens
But that doesnt mean she cant quit...

Where does this new development leave Orel? I got the impression from a Times article that he hadnt been called by the Dodgers in a week or so.

2005-11-16 10:05:40
220.   patsweetpat
I feel like a sheep saying this, 'cause I really wanted to hate him, coming from the Giants and all, and I know this means less than nothing, but...

by the end of the press conference, I found myself kinda liking the guy.

2005-11-16 10:07:51
221.   carmiguel
If the Giants were shrewd, they would try to hire Ng to replace Colletti up in San Francisco. I hope the Dodgers do keep her, and if they do, that she gets a "promotion," meaning a raise and a new title (Senior Assistant GM).

I have no doubt that she'll be interviewed in the next round of GM openings (and there's still the Red Sox and possibly the Nationals--although this one is Theo Epstein's for the taking).

2005-11-16 10:09:52
222.   Jesse
anything else of note?
2005-11-16 10:12:05
223.   sanchez101
I was fairly unimpressed with the press conference, save for Ned's comments on chemistry, I really dont care about your cuddly little backstory or all the good guys you know in the game, it all made me want to puke knowing that the Plascke's of the world will eat this up.

Just wondering, the day Selig "expresses concern over the growing salaries of executives" (how dare anyone but the owners make money), McCourt and Epstein's courtship ends and we end up with Ole Ned. Do we know the terms of the contract, if he's signed for anything less than 4 years, this has no chance of working.

2005-11-16 10:12:38
224.   Curtis Lowe
220- Dont be fooled by his excellent PR skills or his friendly teddy bear appearance, deep down he has been tainted by the hated.
2005-11-16 10:15:32
225.   molokai
Just listened to the whole conference and FSN questions and I'm still optimistic. How about the FSN girl asking some decent questions. Seemed to me she knew more about the situation then Gubizca the baseball analyst. Plus she was damn cute. D Lowe picked the wrong FSN girl to run off with.
2005-11-16 10:16:38
226.   Simon Carnal
Here are Hee-Seop Choi's stats over the last two seasons (Dodgers+Marlins):

663AB 93R 167H 30HR 88RBI 97BB .252AVG .354OBP .451SLG .801OPS

Since everyone talks about signing Paul Konerko, here are Konerko's stats last year:

575AB 98R 162H 40HR 100RBI 81BB .283AVG .375OBP .534SLG .909OPS

It's hard to compare (other than the percentages) since in the comparison here, Choi has more plate appearances. But taking the liberty to equalize Choi's AB with Konerko's, Choi's stats would be:

575AB 81R 145H 26HR 76RBI 84BB .252AVG .354OBP .451SLG .801OPS

Certainly, Konerko has the better numbers. But when you consider that it'll take about $12million to sign him this year and Choi only costs $400,000, I'll take Choi and use the $11.5million in savings to sign a top pitcher or OF or 3B. Also, I'm using Konerko's stats last year, which was generally his best year. Choi hasn't yet hit his potential yet.

2005-11-16 10:17:56
227.   Colorado Blue
...if he's signed for anything less than 4 years, this has no chance of working.

Uh, DePo was signed for 5 and we all saw how well that worked. Given McCourt's penchant for firing I would be surprised if it was longer than 2 years.

2005-11-16 10:24:01
228.   molokai
223
Your to cynical but it does suck that Plaschke will like this guy and so will eye.
Orel has no chance of being the manager after what Ned said what he is looking for.
2005-11-16 10:27:02
229.   sanchez101
227. Im not saying that signing for a long period garauntees success, im just saying that if McCourt isnt willing to at least pretend to commit to ned for more than a couple year, he has no chance. Also, if your only signed for 2 years, are you going to wait for products from the farm to mature? If McCourt hires me, in the interest of job security, im trading away more than a couple of the minor leaguers.
2005-11-16 10:27:52
230.   SMY
According to Dodgers.com, Colletti will be on MLB Radio at 11:30 PT.
2005-11-16 10:28:24
231.   dzzrtRatt
220 It's because he's not McCourt.

For the past 2 1/2 weeks, Frank McCourt has been running the Dodgers and it's been a frightening thing to behold. That pathetic, asinine press conference. Lasorda pledging to rip out his lungs if his McCourt love were false. The whoring after Plaschke's approval. Veteran baseball executives acting as if the Dodger GM job was a curse. The contemptible, deceitful insistence that GM candidates who turned us down in fact consented to a "mutual decision."

Now, the clouds are parting. The Dodgers have a new front man. He's not Jim Bowden. He's going to have more influence over McCourt than DePo did, and than Ng could have. He's not a junior partner, brilliant but untested. He's a force in his own right, whose credentials say "shut up, twits" to Frank and Jamie.

I didn't see the press conference, but from what you all are saying it sounds like Ng will stay unless she's offered a GM position in Boston, and White will stay. He values the fact that LA has potential superstars in its farm system, but is also aware that he's got a surplus there, and can use it to improve the team now. (I am convinced that DePo would've done the same thing.)

The "corners" comment is not good news for Choi. That's a concern. But at least Choi's replacement won't be Jason Phillips.

It's not a day for elation. Elation would be McCourt selling the team, and this announcement falls well short of that prayed-for result. But I do think it's a day for relief.

2005-11-16 10:36:16
232.   sanchez101
231. how does Ned credentials tell the mccourts to shut up? For one, his credentials are much different or better than Depodesta's or Ng's, so im not sure why that matters. McCourt said all sorts of wonderful things a Depodesta over the last two years; I wouldnt buy into anything McCourt says. This is a PR hiring, despite what Ken Rosenthal might say. Once the honeymoon is over, Colletti's a couple of poor Plascke articles from getting fired.
2005-11-16 10:36:53
233.   jasonungar05
I have been trying to figure out for hours what I am MOST upset about. I give up, then hit refresh and try to figure it out again. Give up, hit refresh etc..

I guess my internal poll:

1. that Depo (and Tracy even for those who liked him over Depodesta) is gone for this?

2. that the GM has been a giant for the last 9 years and MCcourt talks about restoring tradition

3. that we head into 2006 with a rookie GM and more than likely a rookie manager too

5. the thought that our kids could be traded for kenny lofton.

6. that we really are a joke and there is no way to defend that anymore.

2005-11-16 10:46:44
234.   bigcpa
233 Did Jon have to delete reason number 4?
2005-11-16 10:48:53
235.   Jesse
As someone noted earlier, Colletti had exactly one more year of baseball experience than Depo. Anyhow, I don't really care what Plashke has to say, either way. I figure for the masses, some good Dodger press isn't a bad thing. I'm guardedly optomistic on the situation. I still think it's a "wait and see." Bonds, Schmitt, Kent, and co made him look very good in San Francisco and the Giants were very successful when he was there. I'm a huge believer in reason and rational thought. It seems people on both sides of the equation are quick to react and slow to examine. It is this type of knee jerk activity that led to Depo being shuffled away. I would be surprised if there is an organization in baseball, what with all the billions of dollars at stake, that doesn't employ at least some amount of statistical analysis. Chemistry is a product of winning and character is very important. This sounds like something Billy Beane might say in a similar press conference.

One would think that watching Barry play everyday would have a profound impact of the importance of OBP. To not, would be like Buzz Aldrin being skeptical of the moon's existence.

2005-11-16 10:49:31
236.   Sam DC
Don't miss our own Bob Timmermann's letter explaining his decision to cancel his LA Times subscription. It's up at LAObserved.com. A teaser: it ends "El Clamor Publico." Good stuff.
2005-11-16 10:50:11
237.   Jesse
As someone noted earlier, Colletti had exactly one more year of baseball experience than Depo. Anyhow, I don't really care what Plashke has to say, either way. I figure for the masses, some good Dodger press isn't a bad thing. I'm guardedly optomistic on the situation. I still think it's a "wait and see." Bonds, Schmitt, Kent, and co made him look very good in San Francisco and the Giants were very successful when he was there. I'm a huge believer in reason and rational thought. It seems people on both sides of the equation are quick to react and slow to examine. It is this type of knee jerk activity that led to Depo being shuffled away. I would be surprised if there is an organization in baseball, what with all the billions of dollars at stake, that doesn't employ at least some amount of statistical analysis. Chemistry is a product of winning and character is very important. This sounds like something Billy Beane might say in a similar press conference.

One would think that watching Barry play everyday would have a profound impact of the importance of OBP. To not, would be like Buzz Aldrin being skeptical of the moon's existence.

2005-11-16 10:52:02
238.   Jesse
sorry. double post.
2005-11-16 10:52:13
239.   dzzrtRatt
232how does Ned credentials tell the mccourts to shut up? For one, his credentials are much different or better than Depodesta's or Ng's, so im not sure why that matters.

Because age matters in situations like this. His credentials are significantly more extensive. When Colletti started in baseball, DePodesta was 8. Plus, he has a completely different personality. He's a guy who can play office politics--a skill I don't think DePodesta had. A guy like Colletti can shine 'em on. Keeping your idiot bosses out of your hair is an incredibly valuable skill for an exec in Colletti's position. If Kim Ng were hired--well my fear was she would've been treated like Dee Dee Myers in the Clinton White House. "Oooh, you're the first woman, presidential press secretary, isn't that exciting? Now, before you open your mouth, you have to clear everything with us." The title, but not the authority.

Don't take Plaschke's endorsement on face value. Plaschke's wrong about everything. Whatever it is he sees in Colletti, it's probably far from the reality. Plaschke deals in caricatures. Colletti is undoubtedly far more complex than a Nilla Wafer like Bill Plaschke could ever imagine.

2005-11-16 10:53:14
240.   Jacob L
I honestly don't care at all that the Dodgers have "failed to restore Dodger tradition." And I say that despite Dodger tradition being very personally important to me. The fact is that Dodger tradition has been so thoroughly obliterated over the last 8 years, that the phrase doesn't mean anything anymore. Any thing the organization might do along those lines at this point would just be lip service or a patch job.

Similarly, I don't really care that Colletti comes from the Giants. If he's a good GM, he's a good GM, and that would be their loss and our gain. I just see any reason, at this point, to think that he will be based on what the Giants front office has done.

Not only is the Giants approach and philosophy a bad one, its one that could be particularly disastrous for the Dodgers at this stage unless of course we can sign in his prime, and retain for 12 years, the next greatest play ever.

2005-11-16 10:54:34
241.   SiGeg
228 Orel has no chance of being the manager after what Ned said what he is looking for.

What did he say he was looking for?

2005-11-16 11:03:13
242.   Paul B
From Plaschke's "column" today (referring to Ned):

"He helped build a 2002 World Series team with a lineup that featured Benito Santiago batting fifth, David Bell playing third and Shawon Dunston doing whatever."

Just curious: Is Bill an idiot or just cringingly disingenuous? Could it be both?

A) Santiago and Bell in outperformed their much-missed counterparts Lo Duca and Beltre in 2002.

B) Dunston had 147 ABs that year (and still managed to put up an impressive -7 VORP).

C) That team featured the our very own Jeff Kent doing big things. (OPS+ 157)

D) There was a certain "brooding superstar" whose OPS+ in 2002 was 275. I think that probably helped Ned's cause a bit.

I'm excited to see that formula put in place in LA.

2005-11-16 11:04:16
243.   zappala
241 Someone with experience. Someone who has won. Someone who can work well with both young players and old. It was pretty standard fluff, but the comment about experience might rule out Hershiser unless his experience as a pitching coach counts. He did say he already has a moderate list of candidates in mind.
2005-11-16 11:07:36
244.   Paul B
Heh.

I have several tabs open in Firefox. One of them has Plaschke's article open in it.

The text in the tab reads: "Dodgers Get a Big Ass..."

Prophetic?

2005-11-16 11:10:58
245.   student of the game
I only caught a small portion of the press conference on XM. Is there any place that I can listen to the whole thing?
2005-11-16 11:12:14
246.   Curtis Lowe
243- To me that comment isnt GM specific in that he mentions knowing how to win in the last game of the season, which kind of alludes to Hershishers star performances as a pitcher knowing how to win all season long.
2005-11-16 11:12:33
247.   Curtis Lowe
246-err manager specific.
2005-11-16 11:13:44
248.   Curtis Lowe
245-I know that he's going to be on MLB radio at 1130, I'd imagine the questions would be more direct than the press conference.
2005-11-16 11:14:37
249.   alexx
According to MLB Radio, Boras is asking for 7 years, $84 million for Damon. Wow.
2005-11-16 11:14:54
250.   bhsportsguy
Since I am fairly new to this board what do folks here think about someone like Kevin Kennedy as a manager candidate. Just wondering.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-11-16 11:15:11
251.   gcrl
248 - i agree. it will be interesting to hear the exchange btwn ned and fred claire...
2005-11-16 11:17:29
252.   bhsportsguy
Also did anyone ask any questions about the 2006 payroll during the press conference, if no one did then shame on them especially anyone from the L.A. Times who have been ragging on the team and their payroll for months.
2005-11-16 11:17:38
253.   SiGeg
243 -- Thanks, that's what I figured. But unless he specified "managerial" experience, I think molokai's "no chance" may be a bit too absolute. Orel has plenty of baseball experience, not only as pitching coach but on the field (and a year in the front office, if I'm not mistaken), and certainly he has won.

Still, it probably is true that Orel doesn't quite fit the bill. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up working for the Dodgers is some other capacity.

2005-11-16 11:20:30
254.   alexx
Is it an easy thing for a high-level executive to go from one team to another team within the division? I would think it would take a bit of time to change one's mindset/allegiances, etc.
2005-11-16 11:23:35
255.   Curtis Lowe
254- It appears that Colletti has interviewed for other GM positions in the last 5 yrs, So could he be sick of the bay?
I'm hoping he is, I have blind faith that he wants to show his old boss that though he once was the learner, Now he is the master.
2005-11-16 11:34:28
256.   Gen3Blue
254-255 Management and other personel movements among competitors and within divisions and geographically close regions
has seen an accelerating trend lately. It may even make sense.

Lets hope this goes like Bilichek(sp?)'s seperation from Parcel.
2005-11-16 11:34:43
257.   bigcpa
>> While the Giants struggled with injuries, their first losing season with Colletti, they were still in the race in the final week

Wasn't 2005 the Dodgers' first losing season with DePodesta?

And this really irritates me:
"That's the thing about being 50 instead of 32. You know that you don't know it all."

My perception is the Old School guys think their 25+ years of experience tell them all they need to know. Do you want your GM picking players based on what Dallas Green told him over a beer in 1982? Or a GM who looks at park effects, platoon splits, advanced defensive metrics etc?

Plaschke et al are far more impressed by who Colletti knows and what people say about him than his approach to evaluating players. But we can all sleep easy knowing that Colletti will smoothly work the room at the team holiday party.

2005-11-16 11:35:48
258.   gcrl
"i do not want to acquire players on long term deals if we have a bona fide prospect at that position"

my ned glass is half full at this point...

2005-11-16 11:37:15
259.   Jon Weisman
257 - How old is Plaschke?
2005-11-16 11:37:21
260.   alexx
Haha Colletti just said he doesn't want to trade a minor leaguer who could have a great future as a Giant. The interviewers seemed to pause for a second, hoping he would correct himself.
2005-11-16 11:38:45
261.   jasonungar05
234

self edit. plus it's the character behind the post. the numbers aren't important.

2005-11-16 11:40:10
262.   Curtis Lowe
260-Perhaps he meant could be a giant, as in huge, big, larger than life, uhhhhh I dont know why I just defended him.
2005-11-16 11:42:06
263.   alexx
262 Yeah, I kind of find myself liking him. He sounds focused, intelligent.
2005-11-16 11:42:58
264.   Colorado Blue
Given that a managerial search began before DePo was fired and seemed to play a role in his subsequent firing, I'm wondering if Ned gets to chose his man from a clean slate or did Frank insist he choose from Tommy's pre-approved list. This would tell me a lot more about what kind of reign Colletti has been given. Was he asked specifically about managerial candidates?
2005-11-16 11:44:36
265.   Bob Timmermann
259

Judging by Plaschke's bio, he is in his late 40s. He graduated from college in 1980 and he's been married for 22 years.

2005-11-16 11:45:58
266.   gcrl
264 - he said that he will be talking with people over the next 3-5 days, including some people he needs to get permission to speak with. i inferred that he's got a brand new bag of candidates.
2005-11-16 11:46:12
267.   Colorado Blue
263 - Like, the opposite of his boss?

Geez, you know, one of Colletti's biggest assets will be how much brass he's got. If he can stand up to the McCourts AND Tommy then he may be a good guy to have after all.

2005-11-16 11:46:25
268.   bigcpa
I'd like to nominate the following nickname for your consideration...

GOOD OL' NED

... T-shirt design in progress

2005-11-16 11:47:05
269.   bhsportsguy
Per GM corner with Fred Claire
He wants to have a manager in place by the Winter meetings (1st week of December).

Work on the outfield and corner infielders.

3 areas:
Interested in signing FAs to fill spots for a few years while prospects get ready.
Would want to sign FAs for a longer term for positions that we don't have prospects.
Evaluate talent to get a read on when they will be ready.

He won't trade someone who projects to be a starter.

Comments about Jeff Kent, he spoke to Jeff yesterday, sit down with him during the Winter meetings.

What is Kim Ng's status, has known her since she started. Admires her work. He believes she will in integral part of what the Dodgers do.

Will be meeting with Kim Ng, Roy Smith and Logan White today to evaluate talent, rosters need to be set for Rule V draft purposes.

2005-11-16 11:47:16
270.   Kayaker7
266 Maybe he'll get Paul DePodesta as AGM! ;-)
2005-11-16 11:48:15
271.   gcrl
269 - after hearing him speak, i was thinking along the lines of "neddie walnuts"
2005-11-16 11:48:45
272.   alexx
264 He said he would be meeting with various potential candidates in the next few days and that he would have to ask for permission to speak with some of them but not all. Does that mean he will talk to some that haven't been talked to before? Do you have to ask for permission even if your team has already contacted a candidate? He didn't mention whether they are his own candidates or previously decided upon candidates. He said he wants a manager in place before the winter meetings.
2005-11-16 11:49:48
273.   gcrl
271 was in ref to 268
2005-11-16 11:50:14
274.   bigcpa
>>> He helped build a 2002 World Series team with a lineup that featured Benito Santiago batting fifth, David Bell playing third and Shawon Dunston doing whatever

In 2002 Jeff Kent got in a well publicized dugout screaming match with David Bell. Benito was on the roids. Dunston was 39 with a .250 OBP but liked by all. Free passes all around from Good Ol' Bill.

2005-11-16 11:51:25
275.   kent
I keep reading that this year's payroll will be around 75 million. That's about 20 million less than the Angels budget in the same market. Has McCourt made any recent comments in this area? Whatever happened to the promise of 100 million or, at least, that we would be in the top 25% of team payrolls? To me, this will have a greater impact on Coletti's performance than any thing else.
2005-11-16 11:52:32
276.   zappala
Recap of interview of Ned Colletti on MLB Radio:

* on the managerial search
- will be making calls about who to speak to in 3-5 days
- be on the road tonight to travel to see some people face-to-face

* timeframe for selecting a manager
- 7 - 10 days, maybe some more after that to sleep on it, give
top 1-2 people one more look
- good to have in place by winter meetings

* what do you see that needs to be done?
- outfield upgraded
- perhaps corners of infield
- needs to spend time with baseball people to see what they think
- got some kids coming - not sure if they're ready for opening day but
not too far off, need to manage short term with long term
- don't want to bring in people who will hold back the kids

* dodgers have best prospects in the league, but you have typically brought
in veterans, approach for balancing needs of kids versus free agent
veterans (email question)

- veteran players - curious to see if there are free agents who can
be productive to hold the fort for a couple years until younger players
are ready, don't want to sign somebody so long who will hinder someone
who is definitely a future productive major leaguer
- may sign some longer term based on position
- younger players - constant process developing and evaluating,
imperative to incorporate the young player into every season, need
to gauge when they are ready
- trades - do not want to acquire positions in long term deals if a
bonafide young player on the verge of being a big-league player

* what's your preferred method - farm or free agency, please keep core
- believe in winning or developing at the same time
- won't say won't trade a player or two -- need to pick the right ones
- no interest in moving somebody who will be a regular or a star player
- slipped on this question and said there were young players who will play someday "for the Giants"

* did you also handle the arbitration cases?
- Brian gave him great latitude, not one portion of job that he didn't
get into - trades, bringing players to the table to acquire, arbitration,
contracts, knows agents

* role changes as general manager - are you going to need to identify a
ned colletti for dodgers as an assistant?
- not sure yet
- good people here, everyone here will get a chance
- Sabean: one of toughest jobs is to find the next you

* Jeff Kent - have you talked with him?
- Jeff called him yesterday to congratulate him
- will be sitting down with him face-to-face and other players to get
their read - players he believes in and that have a view of the world
that is solid

* Kim Ng
- known her for a long time
- good relationship through the years
- lot of trust and confidence in her
- will be an integral part of what we do

* miscellaneous
- will be sitting down with Kim, Roy Smith, Logan White to find out where
they are with free agents, trades, kids
- rosters need to be set for rule 5 draft in next few days
- continuity is imperative to be successful - find the right people,
mentor them

2005-11-16 11:53:16
277.   wkk
270 - Or Sabean hires Depo to replace Ned. How horrible would that be.
2005-11-16 11:53:32
278.   Bob Timmermann
I think Colletti should avoid trying to say "integral"
2005-11-16 11:58:00
279.   SMY
BA chat:

Brian (Fresno, CA): Can you comment on the new Dodgers GM? And PLEASE tell me he's not going to do anything rash and trade away the stocked farm system!

Jim Callis: (2:41 PM ET ) Ned Coletti is widely respected in baseball circles, though my preference as a GM would be to hire someone with a strong background in scouting and talent evaluation. The Dodgers do have a lot of holes in their lineup, so I think you will see some prospects traded this offseason. I think Joel Guzman is the most likely to go, and the Dodgers will try to hang on to Chad Billingsley, Andy LaRoche and Russ Martin.

2005-11-16 11:59:18
280.   Colorado Blue
275 - To me, this will have a greater impact on Coletti's performance than any thing else.

Careful what you wish for... a higher payroll could impact his performance negatively as well; back-loaded and bad FA signings that keep future signings to a minimum, etc. I also believe a lower payroll could have a greater impact on his performance positively; if he can put together a winner based on creative dealings within a budget then he could prove himself to be a master. I'm not saying you are wrong (if i understood your comment correctly to begin with), just that I don't think greater payroll necessarily translates to positive impact.

2005-11-16 12:05:19
281.   Jon Weisman
To be fair, DePodesta backloaded contracts. We're going to see that with Lowe and Odalis. He did this knowing that Green and Dreifort dollars would be coming off the books after 2005. What isn't clear is whether he thought he'd have a payroll cut as well in 2006.

I have yet to see a definitive quote about a payroll limit for the 2006 Dodgers. Certainly, I'm not expecting anything above $90 million at this point, but the speculation about $75 million - did that originate anywhere legitimate?

2005-11-16 12:07:10
282.   kent
280- Clearly one can waste a high payroll with bad choices, but it's hard to succeed if the payroll severely limits those choices. Have the Dodgers said anything about what budget Colletti will be given? And again, can anyone justify underspending the Angels by 20 mil?
2005-11-16 12:07:35
283.   scanderbeg
What are the respective final payrolls for the two previous McCourt seasons? Last season was decreased, but by how much?
2005-11-16 12:08:20
284.   kent
281- The Daily News keeps saying that.
2005-11-16 12:11:52
285.   scanderbeg
If $75MM is true, then Coletti will not have a lot of wiggle room. I'll be waiting with Jon, reserving judgment until I see a quote or something.
2005-11-16 12:12:42
286.   bhsportsguy
I can't believe that during one press conference and one radio interview, no one asked about a) What role will the McCourt's have in choosing the manager and b) What is the payroll for the 2006 Dodgers....
2005-11-16 12:14:28
287.   kent
285- Tony Jackson in today's DAILY NEWS.
2005-11-16 12:15:45
288.   scanderbeg
287 - Is there a link to that?
2005-11-16 12:20:23
289.   Jon Weisman
287 -
"Colletti, meanwhile, is accustomed to working with a payroll budget in the $75-million range, which is roughly what McCourt is expected to give him to work with in 2006."

That's my point. There's no source to this statement. That could be an anonymous source or Jackson's own conjecture. That's not what I'm looking for.

2005-11-16 12:23:27
290.   Curtis Lowe
Jared Weaver Strikes out first 5 batters.
2005-11-16 12:25:31
291.   Curtis Lowe
Colletti sure does have excellent communication skills.

Weaver SO's first 6 batters.

2005-11-16 12:26:01
292.   Vishal
[289] tony jackson has been tossing out that $75-80 million figure for almost 2 weeks it seems.
2005-11-16 12:31:35
293.   Jon Weisman
290 - And he may be right. But there's no way for me to evaluate the merits of the expectation. He doesn't even say why it's expected to be that figure - whether he arrived at that conclusion by talking to Dodger insiders (putting aside whether he had the right insiders) or by his own guesstimation.
2005-11-16 12:31:56
294.   Jon Weisman
Sorry - 293 responds to 292.
2005-11-16 12:33:04
295.   Fallout
I'm waiting for the Dusty Baker rumors.
2005-11-16 12:34:52
296.   dzzrtRatt
286 It's absurd no one asked, but by the same token, I'm not sure if I were GM I'd want Scott Boras, potential FA bidding competitors or potential trading partners to know my bottom line just yet. In this era, team budget is a determining factor, and an underlying premise of every team's strategy. Whether LA's willing to spend $60 million or $100 million should be considered proprietary knowledge.

It's one thing to cross your heart and hope to die for the satisfaction of the fans, but Colletti's Job One is to make the most of whatever's he's got. Let Camille Johnston worry about the PR--she's a genius!

2005-11-16 12:46:51
297.   Sam DC
This isn't surprising, and I don't know if it's old news here, but: "In other news, according to a baseball source, the Dodgers called the Nationals to see if they had interest in center fielder Milton Bradley. The Nationals said, 'No thanks,' in part because they already have a similar highly-charged emotional player in Guillen, according to the source."

http://tinyurl.com/dt4kn (Nationals.com article on Guillen/Vidro surgeries for the tinyurl blocked)

2005-11-16 12:48:03
298.   Vishal
[294] yeah, he might be, but i'm inclined to think it's his own conjecture, so i'm not giving any credence to it.
2005-11-16 12:50:11
299.   King of the Hobos
I don't hink it's been mentioned here...Colletti will be on Mason and Ireland today "a little after 3pm."
2005-11-16 12:50:43
300.   dzzrtRatt
The press conference audio is up on MLB.com (you probably all know that).

Colletti's criteria for a manager sounds like "not Jim Tracy."

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-11-16 12:56:19
301.   Uncle Miltie
Sounds like Aybar/and or Choi are gone. There's also a chance that Aybar could be a bench player. More likely, Colletti will trade him for a relief pitcher.

Colletti likes the outfield (and I don't think he's talking about Bradley). Does that make Werth a starter? He wants to improve the infield corners. J.T. Snow and Joe Randa are coming to LA. Yay!

2005-11-16 12:56:25
302.   Curtis Lowe
Is it just me or does McCourt sound extremely nervous in his introduction of Colletti?
2005-11-16 13:00:22
303.   Romyrick
I know everyone wants to be positive but this has to be one of the worst case scenario's.

I dont really see how this is an "atleast its not bowden" guy because theres no reason or indication that he'll be anything better or different.

2005-11-16 13:00:34
304.   Vishal
[302] why would frank be nervous when talking to the media?? they love him, after all.

it sounds like mccourt and colletti are planning to turn the dodgers into a GD dupont factory.

2005-11-16 13:04:07
305.   bummed big time
Listening to the press conference gave me a good feeling about Colletti. He has been around and seen a lot. He has a aura of authority and the type of guy who will tell you how it is. McCourt will have no choice but to sit back and let him do his job and not get in the way.

It is a good feeling to know that when he sits across the table from Boras, that Boras will not be able to take advantage of him. I also think that he will be able to sign Hochevar to a major league deal after the Rule 5 draft along the lines of Craig Hansen. I know that there are makeup questions with him, but I think that Colletti will be able to look through it and chalk it up as a part of Hochevar's maturing process.

2005-11-16 13:05:06
306.   Vishal
thank goodness dallas green was a "man's man". that makes all the difference, you know.
2005-11-16 13:12:12
307.   Bob Timmermann
Frank Robinson and Felipe Alou are also often given the sobriquet of "man's man".

I tend to be called a "sciolist's sciolist."

2005-11-16 13:12:55
308.   Curtis Lowe
From McCourts introduction it seems like he hired Colletti because he had a better story than Ng. Oh sure he does say he's a baseball guy but come one now thats an obvious given.
2005-11-16 13:13:46
309.   Uncle Miltie
Since Colletti likes good Christians, he should like Drew and Bradley, right?

Somebody tell Hee Seop to hang out with Drew in the offseason.

2005-11-16 13:17:07
310.   Vishal
well, a large percentage of koreans are christian, from what i understand. mostly baptists i think.
2005-11-16 13:19:01
311.   Sam DC
I'm sorry, did Colletti really say that he likes having Christian players on the team?
2005-11-16 13:19:58
312.   Vishal
he said "corner" of the infield. it sounded singular. hopefully he meant 3rd base.
2005-11-16 13:20:15
313.   fanerman
We do not need to upgrade 1st base. Our most gaping holes are at 3rd base and in the outfield. We do not need to upgrade 1st base. We do not need to upgrade 1st base.
2005-11-16 13:20:57
314.   fanerman
312 - 3rd base is the more obvious hole, even to the casual observer. That's encouraging.
2005-11-16 13:21:24
315.   dzzrtRatt
307 I don't think there's any contradiction between being a man's man and a sciolist's sciolist. But then, I only superficially pretend to knowing anything.
2005-11-16 13:22:22
316.   bhsportsguy
Per Gammons on ESPN.COM
"As has been reported on the West Coast, McCourt was eager to get Epstein, and made contact through a third party in Boston less than 24 hours after he left the Red Sox on Nov. 1. Epstein said he was extremely impressed with the McCourts and how sincerely they want to run the right kind of operation. Had there been more time between the Red Sox and Dodger offers, he might have taken the L.A. job, but discussions did not get to the offer stage, and while McCourt had hinted that Epstein could have a small piece of ownership, the talks never got that far."
2005-11-16 13:22:37
317.   Bob Timmermann
If any of us really knew something more than superficially would we be posting on the internet?
2005-11-16 13:22:46
318.   Vishal
[311] nah, when he was thanking and acknowledging his baseball mentors over the years, and one of the people he complimented as being "a good christian". people were probably just being facetious about it.

he did mention the dodgers as an organization for which asia has "become a source of talent"

2005-11-16 13:23:32
319.   fanerman
Just give Hee Seop a chance. Just give Hee Seop a chance. Just give Hee Seop a chance.

I wouldn't have to keep saying it but he still hasn't had one.

2005-11-16 13:24:26
320.   Curtis Lowe
311-no.
2005-11-16 13:26:12
321.   Sam DC
318, 320 -- Thx
2005-11-16 13:27:08
322.   dzzrtRatt
317 I suppose not. This is just one step up from drunk dialing.
2005-11-16 13:27:54
323.   Curtis Lowe
If we had a team of all christians then noone would steal any bases.

A yuk huk yuk.

2005-11-16 13:27:59
324.   Vishal
okay, i really don't need to know his dad paid $8500 for his house.

i am finding myself really not very interested in hearing much that this guy has to say.

2005-11-16 13:30:37
325.   scanderbeg
I'm pretty sure that Kevin Malone claimed to be a "good Christian."
2005-11-16 13:32:10
326.   scanderbeg
This may be a bit of an ad hominem attack, but doesn't Frank McCourt sound like a weasel?
2005-11-16 13:33:28
327.   regfairfield
I can't say I'm really optimistic about this. Everything I've read about Colletti doesn't point in his favors.

Pros-
Doesn't care about chemistry
Supposedly doesn't like paying aging players.

Cons-
Places mental makeup above stats.
Over values defense.
Over values speed.
Believes in things like "the closer mentality."
Gave contracts of 1 to 3 million dollars to middling middle relievers (Christianson, Felix Rodriguez, Matt Herges, and others.
Likes "hard workers"

All in all, doesn't look good.

2005-11-16 13:34:02
328.   Curtis Lowe
326- Yes he does, and he looks like a puppet.
2005-11-16 13:34:35
329.   fanerman
Just don't trade the farm. Just don't trade the farm. Just don't trade the farm.
2005-11-16 13:36:05
330.   scanderbeg
One day I'd like to be remembered as, "One of the all-time greatest people in life."
2005-11-16 13:37:07
331.   Screwgie
The one thing that is becoming increasingly obvious about the Colletti hiring is the toupe.
2005-11-16 13:39:52
332.   Curtis Lowe
331- Whose?
2005-11-16 13:44:35
333.   razzle nugent
Mike Cameron traded the Padres for Xavier Nady.

http://tinyurl.com/clwox

2005-11-16 13:46:06
334.   TheDictator
I didn't get to see the press conference, where can I get a video of it?

Thanks

2005-11-16 13:46:25
335.   scanderbeg
Does anyone remember when the Padres claimed that Xavier Nady was Hall of Fame bound?
2005-11-16 13:47:02
336.   Vishal
[329] he's going to trade some of them. of this i am certain.
2005-11-16 13:48:41
337.   Curtis Lowe
334- Just click the article on Dodgers.com Im now sure if you can watch it but you can definatly listen to it.
2005-11-16 13:51:28
338.   Curtis Lowe
337- Not sure.
2005-11-16 13:53:18
339.   SMY
Only Nady? Good deal for the Padres.
2005-11-16 13:53:22
340.   scanderbeg
I'm not sure if the 2006 Dodgers are going to be the best team in baseball, but you can be damn sure that they'll have more guts, fire, character, and grit than any ol' team out there.
2005-11-16 13:54:09
341.   Curtis Lowe
340- Moxy?
2005-11-16 13:54:53
342.   King of the Hobos
The Rangers made an actual deal, acquiring Jon Leicester for a PTBNL. Those are the kinds of deals you make to improve your bullpen, not signing veteran relievers to a multi million dollar contract

I like Cameron. Nady may be good, but he's not Cameron, yet. Assuming Cameron can hit it out of Petco, he could be somewhat of a threat. This also eliminates the possible Finley-Klesko deal. Now Klesko is practically guarunteed a spotin the line up, and there's a good chance Giles could be gone. Still, I wish the Mets could have wrestled more away from the Padres than just Xavier Nady

2005-11-16 13:55:07
343.   scanderbeg
Backbone?
2005-11-16 14:01:32
344.   dzzrtRatt
From listening to Ted Lightner and Jerry Coleman, I would've thought Nady would have far more impressive numbers than he's got. The concern with Cameron is whether he'll come back from having his head stoved in by Beltran. Also, he's 32 and pricier.
2005-11-16 14:01:35
345.   bhsportsguy
Is Cameron healthy? He did not play after his collision with Beltran in San Diego.
2005-11-16 14:02:07
346.   molokai
After reviewing the FSN conference and all radio bits a pyschological profile has been created for one Ned Colletti and based on his life background, baseball background, mentors, voice, body language, and type of toupe the baseball GM simulator came up with the 2006 Dodger lineup. Given a parameter of an 80 Million payroll and a team full of the following parameters. The program weighted "winning", "character", "veteran", heavily. Skills were not given the same weight but were considered. Of course it was past skills that got the heaviest weight. Craig Wilson doesn't meet the criteria but that was all the program could find that any team would offer for MB and he has his uses.

Choi-C Wilson(of/1st) / Kent / Izzy / Lowell / Navarro-Ausmus(FA)
Jose Cruz / JD Drew / Bernie Williams(FA) / Werth / Ledee

Pitching
Penney / Lowe / Morris(FA) / J Moyer(FA) / E Jackson

Gagne / Sanchez / Broxton / Kuo / Osario / Wunsch

OP Gone -attitude
Brazoban Gone - little known fact that he dislikes pitchers whose first name starts with "Y"
MB Gone-Jeff Kent trumps MB

2005-11-16 14:02:52
347.   Jesse
I know he's old and his defense isn't what it used to be, but there are a lot of people I could think of who would be worse than JT Snow (the sad thing is that Hee Seop isn't one of them). He does do a decent job of getting on base, so a JT Snow/ Olmedo platoon wouldn't necessarily suck. I guess if it's not broke, don't fix it, so I'd still be bummed.
2005-11-16 14:03:24
348.   Uncle Miltie
333- What is going on? Kevin Towers and Jim Bowden have made great trades in the same offseason?
2005-11-16 14:05:29
349.   King of the Hobos
David Ross is probably sad now, how will he hit triples with Cameron on his team?
2005-11-16 14:08:08
350.   Jesse
Kevin towers is at even after the Castilla blunder.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-11-16 14:09:39
351.   Robert Fiore
This whole GM process reminds me of when the L.A. County Museum of Art had to hire a new director some years back, and in the wake of a couple of highly regarded exhibitions they thought they had become one of the world's great museums, and that this would be considered a plum position. The search soon became a lesson in humility.

The thing about the Dodger job is, at least superficially it's a very good position: The system is supposedly loaded, the bad contracts have all been excreted and the payroll is relatively low. (If you consider the Lowe contract bad it's at least productive, as opposed to the Dreifort contract. Drew is worth the money if he plays, and he might play.) What this shows is the dynamics of a business where there are only 30 jobs. If you take one and things go wrong you might never get another chance. Thus the big names are going to be leary about a situation where things beyond their power might go wrong, i.e., unstable owners. The people who are willing to take this kind of position are the ones in a position where they have to gamble or stay No. 2s.

2005-11-16 14:11:27
352.   King of the Hobos
If the Padres go with Roberts in left, Johnson in right, Klesko at first, and Olivo/Ross behind the plate, then I like the Dodgers chances.

Roberts
Loretta
Cameron
Klesko
Greene
Castilla
Johnson
Olivo

I sure hopw they end there... If Sabean is lost without Colletti, the Dodgers could be looking at the playoffs next year with limited upgrades

2005-11-16 14:13:07
353.   Bob Timmermann
351

I'm betting Jon doesn't comment on the first paragraph of this one.

2005-11-16 14:14:26
354.   Bob Timmermann
Ralph Edwards! This is your death!
2005-11-16 14:17:05
355.   patsweetpat
dzzrtRatt posted this about three hours ago:

"Don't take Plaschke's endorsement on face value. Plaschke's wrong about everything. Whatever it is he sees in Colletti, it's probably far from the reality. Plaschke deals in caricatures. Colletti is undoubtedly far more complex than a Nilla Wafer like Bill Plaschke could ever imagine."

I just wanna day that this has got to be the truest thing I've read in months. I mean it.

2005-11-16 14:20:19
356.   King of the Hobos
I don't think Dodger Blues is taking Colletti so well. Unless calling him "Rabbi Hitler" is is taking it well. I'm not even sure where they're going with that...
2005-11-16 14:21:09
357.   Uncle Miltie
347- you might want to reconsider
Snow .275/.343/.365 .708 367 AB 4 HR
Robles .272/.332..368 .700 364 AB 5 HR

Yes, Robles has more power than Snow. Colletti may realize that Snow's career is over, so he'll turn to a younger version of Snow in Travis Lee.

2005-11-16 14:24:03
358.   dzzrtRatt
Thanks, patsweetpat. I was on sodium pentathol at the time, so my only option was to tell the truth.
2005-11-16 14:25:41
359.   dzzrtRatt
356 I think they meant the Dodgers are the Jews and the Giants are the Nazis, so a Giant exec becoming a Dodger is like Hitler becoming a rabbi.

We've already made that clear that around here, when you hit the "Hitler" button, your credibility is shot. I'm sorry they did that.

2005-11-16 14:27:25
360.   Bob Timmermann
So Dodger Blues has invoked Godwin's Law?
2005-11-16 14:27:58
361.   King of the Hobos
357 If we miss out on Lee, then we can sign Daryle Ward!
2005-11-16 14:38:13
362.   Jon Weisman
353 - I'd sure like to, though.
2005-11-16 14:43:08
363.   Uncle Miltie
It's a shame that Depodesta is gone because the Cubs might be looking to trade 24 year old pitcher (born in LA, grew up in San Diego) Sergio Mitre. Mitre is G/F ratio is 3.32. He has a good sinker and throws strikes.
2005-11-16 14:43:08
364.   King of the Hobos
346 Trading Brazoban could be quite unfortunate (assuming he's traded just to be traded, based off last year). He struggled with Liecy last year, which foreshadowed his struggles for the Dodgers.

If that happens again, he'll be very good next year. In 10 innings, he has 11 Ks, and has yet to give up an earned run. He has 7 saves. He's allowed 8 baserunners in that time. I have no idea what he's doing down there, but if this is a result of developing a good change up or breaking ball, then this could be legitimate.

2005-11-16 14:58:15
365.   D4P
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but any word on the size and length of Colletti's contract?
2005-11-16 15:00:56
366.   natepurcell
4yr deal
2005-11-16 15:03:42
367.   gvette
364--Wouldn't get too excited about Winter Ball stats. Years ago the Dodgers had a lefty reliever named Stan Wall. Every year he would pitch lights out in the Dominican and Al Campanis would proclaim him the "New Perranoski".

Then every year when it counted he pitched like the old Stan Wall.

Today's thread has it all,from speculation that prized prospects will be traded for a bag of stale cheetos, to calls for the Korean community to rise up in solidarity of Choi, to the perennial prediction that key front office staffers will quit in protest.

Haven't seen this much hysteria since that last Shannon Doherty disaster film on TV. (Category 8,Ned Attacks!!)

2005-11-16 15:04:23
368.   King of the Hobos
Colletti on Mason and Ireland right now
2005-11-16 15:10:05
369.   natepurcell
can you recap what he says hobos?
2005-11-16 15:11:50
370.   D4P
Nate - How much is Colletti getting paid, and is it more or less than Depo?
2005-11-16 15:13:04
371.   natepurcell
that i dont knoe d4p. on the dodgers.com article it says 4 yr deal.
2005-11-16 15:16:07
372.   Jon Weisman
New post on top.
2005-11-16 15:18:11
373.   trainwreck
I had a dream about all of this last night. It was half nightmare/half wonder. Flanders was there on his first day so that was scary. Kim Ng left to go join the A's so that was scary. On the positive side though I got to yell at McCourt.
2005-11-16 15:20:40
374.   King of the Hobos
Colletti is prepared to join the dark side, and Colletti can't stand Sabean (who Mason or Ireland called a jackass). They're just messing around

Colletti wouldn't really answer a question regarding using his knowledge of Sabean and the Giants against them. He said Tracy could go against us just as easy

Colletti isn't worried about ending up like DePo. He said he asks a lot of questions (said this a few times). He claims he is not someone who can't read or understand the newspaper. He spent 5-6 hours with Frank last week, 9-10 on Monday, and 2-3 more with Jamie yesterday. He's not an introvert, that's for sure

He won't admit he's more traditional than DePo, but he did say he needs to know everything about a player before signing them, including how they live their lives. He made several comments that clearly go against Bradley

The Orel rumors are untrue according to Colletti. A new manager will be judged like a new player, then he started naming off the same things he said during the press conference.

Our farm system is "on the verge of being very good." What does that mean? He seems to like the prospects, but doesn't want the entire team to be rookies. A new manager must be open minded about rookies. Hopefully that means no Piniella or Baker. He will start his phone calls in the next hour or two, and hopes to have efveryone notified by tomorrow

He can't answer a question about payroll. He claims he's not being evasive. He brought up numerous expensive players to McCourt, and McCourt assured him he could get who he wanted. I wouldn't completely trust McCourt

Kent isn't really a leader, just a hard worker. He signed Kent originally because some other executives said he was going to be very good, despite being quiet, and wants as many Kents as possible

Man does he talk a lot.

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