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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

McCourt: DePodesta Era a Failure
2006-03-10 17:10
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Frank McCourt trashed former Dodger general manager Paul DePodesta pretty good in an interview published by Ken Gurnick today on MLB.com.

McCourt said there was a difference between hiring DePodesta one month into his ownership and Colletti after two years.

"Truthfully, as a new owner, I had never been through a search for a general manager before," McCourt said. "Certainly, I thought I hired the right person, and at the time, I verbalized why. The difference is, I had more experience this time and more time to be more deliberate about it.

"The most important point is that I knew what I wanted. We learn from experience, and I feel I learned immensely from the two years I've owned the club. That's what growth is. It's what players go through. You look at failures you have to overcome to become a champion. We all have bumps in the road - it's how we deal with them. You have to be willing to admit it and fix it."

The blindness with which McCourt fails to grant others the same learning curve he grants himself, and the gracelessness with which he withholds praise for the good done by those he has fired, never ceases to astonish me.

No, the 2004 division title was only partly DePodesta's - but so will it be for a 2006 title if it comes under Ned Colletti.

Update: Rob McMillin explores this in greater detail at 6-4-2.

Comments (309)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-03-10 17:56:30
1.   Bob Timmermann
I will plop myself down at Staples Center tonight and come home to find this thread turned into something akin to Sherman's March to the Sea I feel.
2006-03-10 18:13:24
2.   dsfan
Harmless blather from McCourt. That's the kind of boilerplate you expect from him. Owners seldom issue public mea culpas.

I reiterate: McCourt did Depo a favor when he fired him. If Depo were here and could be candid, I fully expect that he would agree that getting fired was a liberating experience.

Just imagine what it was like. Nearly every day, you can be certain that Depo had to explain his moves and non-moves to not only Frank but Jamie.

2006-03-10 18:18:43
3.   Steve
But the Jim Tracy Era was a rousing success
2006-03-10 18:24:19
4.   mountainmover
Since McCourt owns the team, he gets to call the shots. I have seen him grow, but it's one thing to grow as an owner, another to have to grow as a GM. I think McCourt thought DePo was a GM. He wasn't! Never will be.

Great Guy!

Intelligent Guy!

High Character Guy!

Bad GM!

Great Assistant GM!

Just my opinion, but I'm biased - I think he's a bad GM!

2006-03-10 18:30:08
5.   dsfan
4 -

You could do a lot worse. I'd rank Depo over Kevin Malone, Lamar, Bowden, Bavasi, Baird, possibly Minaya.

I gave him a C to C-plus for his tenure.

2006-03-10 18:35:44
6.   sub4eraplz
Id take a pound of 30% fat ground beef over Malone.
2006-03-10 18:37:56
7.   Icaros
6

So you'd trade Kevin Malone for Jim Tracy's head?

2006-03-10 18:59:52
8.   Icaros
dodgers.com:

Little said it is possible Kuo could return to his original role of starting. For now, he is a reliever.

Yes! Now say the same thing about Miller and Broxton.

2006-03-10 19:03:56
9.   sub4eraplz
Lets just hope Kuo and Miller can stay healthy long enough to throw more than 7 innings this year... let alone 7 in a game.
2006-03-10 19:10:30
10.   Steve
I'd rank Depo over Kevin Malone, Lamar, Bowden, Bavasi, Baird, possibly Minaya.

Wow. Controversial statement, that.

2006-03-10 19:58:14
11.   Icaros
I'd rank Jeff Kent over Fernando Vina, Tony Graffanino, Damion Easley, Mark Grudzielanek, possibly Kazuo Matsui.
2006-03-10 20:06:55
12.   TheRedMenace
With all due respect to the host, eliminating the colon and inserting an ampersand would make the headline decidedly more appropriate.

That said, the amount of respect and class that the organization has squandered in the last couple years is truly staggering. Take a bow Mr. McCourt, you've... uh... earned it.

2006-03-10 20:14:08
13.   Steve
McCourt; DePodesta Era a failure.

McCourt, DePodesta Era a failure.

McCourt-DePodesta Era a failure.

McCourt/DePodesta Era a failure.

It works just about every other way, doesn't it? Though it was really only a failure if one considers about May 10 to October 3, 2005 the McCourt/DePodesta Era. Though there was plenty of failure there.

2006-03-10 20:20:20
14.   Jon Weisman
One division title, plus a team in position to win more. I think the glass is at least partially full.
2006-03-10 20:30:30
15.   TheRedMenace
14 - Is the glass any fuller than it was two years ago (other than the natural aging process of the top prospects?) I would argue that its not, but the opposite argument certainly has merit.

It seems to me the Dodgers are right about where they've been for the last 10 years, pretty average. Not the proper place for such a franchise.

2006-03-10 20:32:06
16.   Steve
If the ship in fact went down (which is arguable), then everybody goes down with it. Frank McCourt, welcome to the Enemies List.
2006-03-10 20:47:43
17.   Jon Weisman
15 - My overall point is, DePodesta's not taking shots at McCourt, and he lost his job. I can't believe McCourt can't find a way to communicate his optimism for the future without ragging on DePo.
2006-03-10 21:01:38
18.   TheRedMenace
17 - I totally agree. The point I was trying to make earlier is that its a pretty poor general who blames his soldiers. Even if his soldiers are blameworhty. Accordingly, if McCourt wants to knock the "DePodesta era," he'd be wise to remember who was really in charge during the Depodeta era (hence the need for an ampersand.)
2006-03-10 21:03:42
19.   xaphor
4 "I have seen [McCourt] grow, but it's one thing to grow as an owner, another to have to grow as a GM."

Can you extrapolate on this, because I haven't seen it and am woefully ignorant on the diferenence in the way owners and GMs grow?

15 "It seems to me the Dodgers are right about where they've been for the last 10 years, pretty average. Not the proper place for such a franchise."

How long do you estimate it should take a GM to turn an average team into an excellent one? 1 off-season? 2 off-seasons...?

2006-03-10 21:06:29
20.   Steve
19 -- It's kind of a chia pet effect.
2006-03-10 21:09:34
21.   Icaros
How long do you estimate it should take a GM to turn an average team into an excellent one? 1 off-season? 2 off-seasons...?

From nearly everything I've been reading and hearing, Colletti has completely 180'd a franchise headed for oblivion in less than half a year.

2006-03-10 21:10:47
22.   Icaros
I wouldn't say McCourt has grown, but I could certainly see likening him to a growth.
2006-03-10 21:14:16
23.   Steve
I thought Jim Tracy was headed to oblivion. Did he get pulled over in Altoona and never make it?
2006-03-10 21:17:43
24.   Jon Weisman
I'm about to do an interview on this show:

http://www.theallsportsnetwork.com/

2006-03-10 21:18:35
25.   thinkingblue
The blindness with which McCourt fails to grant others the same learning curve he grants himself, and the gracelessness with which he withholds praise for the good done by those he has fired, never ceases to astonish me.

No, the 2004 division title was only partly DePodesta's - but so will it be for a 2006 title if it comes under Ned Colletti.<<

Yes, but Colleti made a lot more moves to this team than Depo did before 04. Furcal, Lofton, Nomar, Baez, and Seo will be big parts to our title this year.

Please, lets just all forget the Depo disaster. Let's not harp on McCourt for not giving a GM in LA a learning curve. Let's instead look foward to what promises to be a great year, and many great years to come.

I have total faith in Colleti and Little. They seem to know what they are doing. They are excellent communicators, players like them, and they know how to get players to buy into what they are doing.

2006-03-10 21:25:31
26.   Steve
It's Colletti
2006-03-10 21:26:36
27.   thinkingblue
You don't have faith in new management?
2006-03-10 21:26:46
28.   Steve
Wisconsin?
2006-03-10 21:31:50
29.   xaphor
25 - "Colleti made a lot more moves to this team than Depo did before 04. Furcal, Lofton, Nomar, Baez, and Seo will be big parts to our title this year."

The heart of the order is still Kent and Drew. The top of the rotation, the starting catcher and the big time closer are all DePodesta's. DePodesta brought this girl to the dance, Colleti has just changed the dress she was in.

2006-03-10 21:33:06
30.   thinkingblue
28.
Madison?
2006-03-10 21:34:31
31.   thinkingblue
the big time closer<<

Gagne was here way before Depo was here.

2006-03-10 21:35:47
32.   Jon Weisman
25 - Tell McCourt not to harp on "the DePo disaster." He was the one talking about it. He knows how to not talk about something if he doesn't want to.
2006-03-10 21:38:08
33.   Marty
The only thing I really give Flanders credit for is replacing Izzy with Furcal. Now it seems Furcal is taking much longer than expected to heal, so that move may not be that great. If he trades any more kids for middle relief I'll really hate this regime.
2006-03-10 21:39:49
34.   Marty
lease, lets just all forget the Depo disaster. Let's not harp on McCourt for not giving a GM in LA a learning curve.

It seems to me he is doing just that, unless he fires Flanders after next season.

2006-03-10 21:44:59
35.   Icaros
If he trades any more kids for middle relief I'll really hate this regime.

Really? Because he's working on a Justin Orenduff and Delwyn Young for Kent Mercker deal right now.

What, no good? A veteran like Mercker really knows how to pitch in the seventh inning.

2006-03-10 21:46:11
36.   xaphor
31 - "Gagne was here way before Depo was here."

And signed to his current contract under DePodesta when the consensus was that moneyball had no use for high priced closers.

2006-03-10 21:58:04
37.   TheRedMenace
36 - The fact that Depo ignored the stupidest piece of moneyball gibberish that one can run into, does not make Gagne a Depodesta find. No GM would have let Gagne loose.

Check that, no competent GM would have let Gagne loose.

2006-03-10 22:00:26
38.   TheRedMenace
That may not be the way to spell gibberish- use BS if it makes it clearer.
2006-03-10 22:04:01
39.   xaphor
37 – "no competent GM would have let Gagne loose."

Tell that to Clemens, A-Rod, Barry Bands... Do I really need to go on?

2006-03-10 22:06:51
40.   TheRedMenace
39 - All those players were free agents, Gagne was not. In order for Gagne not to be a Dodger Depo would have to have either traded him or cut him. The latter would have got him fired. the former would have got him scalped.
2006-03-10 22:08:50
41.   Andrew Shimmin
33- You don't like the Seo deal? That's the only one that impressed me, so far; it gave me hope. Some of that hope abides.
2006-03-10 22:10:52
42.   Marty
Whereas the true visionary would have seen that the Dodgers got the best years out of Gagne and moved him when his value was the highest.

I'm not positing that I was that smart. I'm just sayin...

2006-03-10 22:12:35
43.   Marty
41 Yeah, I'd forgotten that. He could turn out to be a good move. Not a move that clinches a division, but it could be productive.
2006-03-10 22:17:34
44.   TheRedMenace
42 - I agree that it would have been visionary. The problem is that had he done it, I think some of the faithful would have prevented him from using any type of vision ever again.

In any case McCourt would never have allowed Depo to trade his best and most popular player, even if a prudent deal did come along.

2006-03-10 22:20:14
45.   xaphor
39 – "All those players were free agents, Gagne was not."

Letting a player reach free agency would be letting him loose in my opinion, but no matter. Both the Rocket and A-Rod were traded. Two out of three ain't bad. The simple fact is that in baseball no one is untouchable. Even Jackie Robinson and Babe Ruth succumbed to the whims of their franchises. I've seen Wayne Gretzky and David Beckham traded. A Gange trade is not going to shock the sport.

2006-03-10 22:24:02
46.   TheRedMenace
45 - Sure but that wasn't the point. You stated Gagne was Depo's guy- he wasn't. If you suggest that he is because Depo didn't trade him, than by your criteria Perez, Penny, Lowe, Kent are now Coletti guys.
2006-03-10 22:42:06
47.   xaphor
46 – I would think the decision to hand someone a 3 million dollar raise followed by another two million for each of the following two years would fall under the scope of a managerial decision of the place a player has on the team. If you believe that it was an automatic decision; that is fine. It is funny how the one player you are arguing was not DePodesta's has been the least productive since his contract was signed. I hope upon hope that Gagne returns to his old self but I have a sinking feeling we are more likely to see a full campaign from Drew before that happens.
2006-03-10 22:51:07
48.   Marty
37 and 44 don't seem to be compatible to me. How can you say that no competent GM would have traded Gagne, then agree it would have been visionary to do so?
2006-03-10 22:54:32
49.   TheRedMenace
47 - Fair enough. I still wouldn't call him a Depo guy but you make a good point about the contract extension.

The merits of the decision aren't really at issue, though I would say that I would not have traded Gagne and think his deal is probably the only outlay of cash that Depo made that didn't strike me as foolish as soon as he did it.

With respect to your last point, I hope your wrong because if Dodger fans are waitng for a full Drew campaign, they better get comfortable seats and lots of adult beverages.

2006-03-10 22:56:55
50.   Andrew Shimmin
Bob looks to be getting his money worth. UCLA gets the blow out, and game two goes to OT.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-03-10 22:57:52
51.   TheRedMenace
48 - Using the logic that even alchemists are visionary in thier own special way, however as financial planners they are probably best viewed as incompetent.

That said, you are right I probably should have said in 44 that it wouldn't have been visionary as much as provocative.

2006-03-10 22:58:12
52.   D4P
50
Looks like Oregon choked. Oh well, they had no business making it that far anyway.
2006-03-10 23:11:11
53.   Andrew Shimmin
Double OT.
2006-03-10 23:15:54
54.   Marty
It sounds like you are in the "closer is important" camp. Where I subscribe to the smoke jumper argument. That's why baseball is so great :)
2006-03-10 23:25:46
55.   TheRedMenace
54 - I do believe a closer is essential in big games (playoffs esecially.) If you want to win titles, you need a closer who is performing well.

However, even if you think closers aren't important, Gagne was still their best arm, by a wide margin. Dumping your best pitcher, before he's a free agent no less, would be foolish.

2006-03-10 23:33:03
56.   Xeifrank
McCourt is a [insert insulting name here] and I have the numbers to back it up.

NL West Standings
Standings
Team W L GB Streak
PD Dodgers 31 14 _ Won 5
DBacks 24 21 7 Lost 5
NC Dodgers 22 23 9 Lost 1
Giants 22 23 9 Won 3
Padres 20 25 11 Won 1
Rockies 16 29 15 Lost 3

2006-03-10 23:35:57
57.   Andrew Shimmin
Cal vs. UCLA in the final. Set your tivo, Steve.
2006-03-11 00:46:00
58.   scareduck
16 - and here you went and killed it. Glad to know you're on board with the truth that's already in progress, Steve.

56 - huh? Wha?

2006-03-11 01:15:50
59.   Andrew Shimmin
Xeifrank has been running simulations of the NL West with Flanders's Dodgers facing down DePo's.

http://dodgersims.blogspot.com/

2006-03-11 01:27:26
60.   regfairfield
55 Any proof to this therom?
2006-03-11 01:53:24
61.   oldbear
Wasnt RedMenace comparing Jason Repko to Joel Guzman yesterday?

Just a point of reference when discussing his opinions.

2006-03-11 02:03:23
62.   Andrew Shimmin
55 says much less than one might think on first reading it. Ignoring the first sentence, and taking only the second: If you want to win the big games you need a [2B,3B,SS,LF, etc.] who is performing well. Not a good one, just one who is performing well. Well, yeah; it's important for the players you have to play well during big games, in order to win big games. It's extra true about closers because they wouldn't be in the game unless it was close enough to win. It's (please excuse the lie) a sampling error. It's not essential, of course, because there are examples of Series (the biggest games, right?) winning teams with closers who performed badly (2001 D'backs).

The bit about it being foolish to trade a team's best arm is wrong. Whether the player has reached free agency or not is relevant to the necessary quality of players returned in the deal, but not to the overall point. Which is wrong.

2006-03-11 07:53:50
63.   Steve
The fact that Depo ignored the stupidest piece of moneyball gibberish that one can run into"

Wow, that was a convincing bit of rhetoric. At least Monk was a new episode last night.

2006-03-11 08:06:01
64.   thinkingblue
The only thing I really give Flanders credit for is replacing Izzy with Furcal. Now it seems Furcal is taking much longer than expected to heal, so that move may not be that great. If he trades any more kids for middle relief I'll really hate this regime.<<

So, you don't like 5 time all star Garciaparra, Jae Seo, or batting champion Bill Mueller?

Also, why the panic over giving up a class A player, and a guy who couldn't get an out past AA? Bottom line is, we will be fine.

D. Lowe is locked up for 3 more years, Penny, Perez, and Tomko for another 2, and if Seo succeeds, why let him go? It's not like we had room for every Jackson and Tiffany. Our pitching staff will be fine for this year, and for years to come.

In fact, there was a possibility that Jackson could be moved to the bullpen.

We now have one of the most dominating bullpens in baseball (assuming Gagne is healthy), and assurance if Gagne is not. Prospects are, well, just that, prospects. It is not a sure thing that they will succeed. But Baez is proven.

While you have to use the farm, it doesn't have to shape you entire team. A future rotation of:

Billingsley
Lowe
Penny
Elbert
and Seo

Sounds good to me.

Again, that trade will NOT hurt us now, and sure won't hurt at all in the future.

2006-03-11 08:07:18
65.   Steve
I have to stop waking up so early on Saturday mornings.
2006-03-11 08:08:57
66.   thinkingblue
59.

That's why baseball is played on the field, and not in Depo's computer. Depo's computer lost 91 games.
Also, Choi just isn't that good.

2006-03-11 08:09:57
67.   Steve
So do other people.
2006-03-11 08:21:40
68.   thinkingblue
Adding to post 66.

How can anyone think:
Izzy
Werth
Drew
Kent
Bradley
Valinetin
Choi
Phillips

Is anywhere near:
Furcal
Lofton
Drew
Kent
Garciaparra
Mueller
Cruz Jr.
Navarro

The second line up is clearly superior.

2006-03-11 08:26:58
69.   D4P
I have to stop waking up so early on Saturday mornings.

Try staying up later on Friday nights.

2006-03-11 08:28:16
70.   D4P
68
Who deserves "credit" for Cruz Jr. and Navarro: Depo's computer or Flanders' gut?
2006-03-11 08:31:01
71.   Steve
All ways are the Queen's ways.
2006-03-11 08:33:04
72.   Jon Weisman
Izzy vs. Furcal - yes for Furcal, with a tip of the hat to McCourt's expanded budget

Werth vs. Lofton - we'll see if Lofton makes it through the season any healthier than Werth has.

Drew vs. Drew

Kent vs. Kent

Bradley vs. Garciaparra - we'll see if Garciaparra makes it through the season any healthier than Bradley. Not much reason to think so. And don't bring up Garciaparra's batting title - that is ancient history.

Valentin vs. Mueller - yes for Mueller - although adding A. Perez in the discussion narrows the gap, had he been allowed to play.

Choi vs. Cruz Jr. - Both DePo acquisitions

Phillips vs. Navarro - Both DePo acquisitions

So out of eight spots, only four are in the DePo vs. Colletti competition. Two are clear winners for Colletti. My question is, do you think DePo would have stood pat after 2005. Or are we allowed to entertain the thought that DePo would have tried to improve the team, just like Colletti did, especially with the help of McCourt's increased payroll? I'm not saying he would have improved it in the same way, but you have to grant DePo would have had the chance.

2006-03-11 08:33:51
73.   Sam DC
68 I really don't think DePodesta was going to run the same team out there in 2006 that he did in 2005. If you want to predict what he would have done and compare to what Colletti has done, fine. But the comparison you're making makes no sense.

I've never seen Monk, I'm afraid.

DC Ownership update in the Hee Seop Thread, which my computer shows as the most recent, although last night they were reversed?

2006-03-11 08:34:33
74.   Steve
How did the radio go?
2006-03-11 08:36:56
75.   D4P
All ways are the Queen's ways.

Try spiking her jewel-encrusted goblet with caffeine.

2006-03-11 08:42:38
76.   Jon Weisman
74 - Fine. Didn't say anything there that I haven't said here.

73 - I decided that for the weekend, I wanted the fun thread above the bitter thread.

2006-03-11 08:46:08
77.   Sam DC
76 This McCourt business does have me bitter but I'm trying to be a good sort about it. As you say very well, however the McCourts feel, it's just not that hard to be superficially polite, as the situation obviously calls for.
2006-03-11 08:47:08
78.   Steve
You go where mortals fear to tread. This is a business that gives John and Ken awards.
2006-03-11 08:47:35
79.   Sam DC
And I hope my comments about Fred Malek don't pollute the happy weekend thread.
2006-03-11 08:49:48
80.   Sam DC
The guy who invented the slap shot has died.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2363974

Wouldn't have thought that was something that someone invented.

2006-03-11 08:58:59
81.   D4P
80
Did you see the story the other day on the guy who invented the cubicle? He feels guilty now about it.
2006-03-11 09:01:21
82.   Steve
Whoever invented the bunt owes me an apology
2006-03-11 09:02:49
83.   Sam DC
81 That's pretty hysterical.
2006-03-11 09:03:21
84.   Sam DC
or, hysterical not quite the right word. Amusing yet poignant, I suppose.
2006-03-11 09:04:14
85.   Marty
How can anyone think:

Furcal
Lofton
Drew
Kent
Garciaparra
Mueller
Cruz Jr.
Navarro

Is anywhere near:

Henderson
Palmeiro
Thomas
Sosa
Finley
Piazza
B. Williams
Walker

The second line up is clearly superior

Makes about as much sense

2006-03-11 09:05:55
86.   Marty
Add 85

Who's to say my second lineup wouldn't all have career years?

2006-03-11 09:06:58
87.   D4P
Whoever invented the bunt owes me an apology

Where's Bob when you need him?

2006-03-11 09:11:07
88.   Steve
Who's to say

Still, amazingly, after everything, the single worst argument ever made on this site, despite stiff competition. Good times.

Bob, I think, has told us who invented the bunt.

2006-03-11 09:13:04
89.   Marty
88 It trumps all other positions. It's gold.
2006-03-11 09:15:22
90.   Marty
Altadena weather update. No snow on my house yet, but it's pretty close.
2006-03-11 09:22:49
91.   D4P
Bob, I think, has told us who invented the bunt

Wee-Willie Jenkins?
Scrappy McFee?
Pee-Wee Gunderson?

2006-03-11 09:28:28
92.   Steve
I think it was Satan himself, manifest in his true form as a backup middle infielder who "plays four positions"
2006-03-11 09:32:58
93.   Steve
Apparently, we've decided to give the Nationals the opposition we think they deserve.

Jason Repko, RF; Dioner Navarro, C; Chris Truby, 1B; Joel Guzman, LF; Cody Ross, CF; James Loney, DH; Andy LaRoche, 3B; Oscar Robles, 2B; Ramon Martinez, SS. Starting pitcher - Aaron Sele.

Is this game on the radio today?

2006-03-11 09:33:07
94.   Bob Timmermann
82
I represent the estate of Dickey Pearce ...

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/P/Pearce_Dickey.stm

And I demand that Steve makes a formal apology to his heirs. If no formal apology is received, then we shall have to instigate legal action.

2006-03-11 09:34:09
95.   Bob Timmermann
80

Slobodan Milosevic and Boom-Boom Geoffrion! Who's going to be third?

2006-03-11 09:42:46
96.   Steve
I'm filing a preliminary injunction motion against the bunt in the Central District of Los Angeles next week.
2006-03-11 09:43:10
97.   Steve
Central District of California...in Los Angeles
2006-03-11 09:44:15
98.   Marty
93 It's supposed to be on KFWB
2006-03-11 09:48:13
99.   MartinBillingsley31
68

I've allready responded to you about the same thing on another board, but i'm going to do it again since you brought it up.

First i'm going to leave out kent and drew because they were there in 2005 and will be there in 2006.

Next i'm going to leave out phillips and navarro because navarro was the guy depodesta wanted and wasn't quite ready till the end of 2005.

Next it wasn't choi alone it was a platoon of choi and saenz, choi/saenz.

I'll evaluate by position but in the outfield i'll compare bradley vs cruz and werth vs lofton.

And all of this is with a healthy season, because NOBODY CAN PREDICT INJURIES.

ss furcal > izturis
1b nomar = choi/saenz give or take barely
3b mueller = valentin give or take barely
of cruz = bradley give or take barely
of lofton valentin
cruz < bradley

So if you pinned me down, out of the 5 positions that changed, 3 are downgrades and 2 are upgrades.

Or better yet furcal is a huge upgrade and lofton is a huge downgrade which cancels them out, then you got 2 slight downgrades and 1 slight upgrade.

Conclusion: ned re-arranged the furniture, but has an in-house chance to upgrade the offense by putting nomar at either LF or 3b(preferably LF sitting lofton), but has an even bigger in-house chance to upgrade the offense(if guzman is ready) by putting guzman in the outfield sitting lofton and putting nomar at 3b sitting mueller.
Not only does it improve the starting lineup, but it also improves our bench.
Can you imagine our bench consisting of ledee, lofton, mueller, the one who's not starting between choi and saenz, utility infielder, backup catcher.

2006-03-11 09:48:23
100.   Icaros
93

Nice to see the "First Baseman of the Future" DHing so Chris Truby can get some PT at a position he will never ever play for LA.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-03-11 09:50:46
101.   Steve
I hate to preempt The Real Deal with Bill McNeal
2006-03-11 09:52:07
102.   Steve
I've allready responded to you about the same thing on another board

It's like deja vu, all over again.

2006-03-11 09:52:15
103.   Bob Timmermann
97

Steve better not watch Japan or Korea play in the WBC. They are going to be bunting. Especially in their games against teams not named "USA".

2006-03-11 09:57:29
104.   Icaros
Steve should start a new blog titled "Curiouser and Curiouser."
2006-03-11 09:57:57
105.   MartinBillingsley31
Post 99 didn't come out right, it left out some things and moved some words around, weird, maybe it was too long.
2006-03-11 09:59:17
106.   MartinBillingsley31
68

I've allready responded to you about the same thing on another board, but i'm going to do it again since you brought it up.

First i'm going to leave out kent and drew because they were there in 2005 and will be there in 2006.

Next i'm going to leave out phillips and navarro because navarro was the guy depodesta wanted and wasn't quite ready till the end of 2005.

Next it wasn't choi alone it was a platoon of choi and saenz, choi/saenz.

I'll evaluate by position but in the outfield i'll compare bradley vs cruz and werth vs lofton.

And all of this is with a healthy season, because NOBODY CAN PREDICT INJURIES.

ss furcal > izturis
1b nomar = choi/saenz give or take barely
3b mueller = valentin give or take barely
of cruz = bradley give or take barely
of lofton < werth

2006-03-11 10:02:30
107.   Steve
Yay! Rick Monday and Charlie Steiner. It's D4P's dream team!

Steve should start a new blog titled "Curiouser and Curiouser."

The only winning move is not to play.

2006-03-11 10:04:41
108.   MartinBillingsley31
And if you asked me about the equals
nomar is less than choi/saenz
mueller is greater than valentin
cruz is less than bradey

So if you pinned me down, out of the 5 positions that changed, 3 are downgrades and 2 are upgrades.

Or better yet furcal is a huge upgrade and lofton is a huge downgrade which cancels them out, then you got 2 slight downgrades and 1 slight upgrade.

Conclusion: ned re-arranged the furniture, but has an in-house chance to upgrade the offense by putting nomar at either LF or 3b(preferably LF sitting lofton), but has an even bigger in-house chance to upgrade the offense(if guzman is ready) by putting guzman in the outfield sitting lofton and putting nomar at 3b sitting mueller.
Not only does it improve the starting lineup, but it also improves our bench.
Can you imagine our bench consisting of ledee, lofton, mueller, the one who's not starting between choi and saenz, utility infielder, backup catcher.

2006-03-11 10:05:55
109.   Steve
Never mind. Rick Monday and Jerry Reuss. Interested to hear Reuss.

We play the Nationals five times this spring? I thought the idea was to play something resembling major league talent to get ready for the season to start.

2006-03-11 10:06:58
110.   Icaros
107

Not Steiner, Rick Monday and Jerry Reuss.

2006-03-11 10:07:22
111.   Icaros
109

Let me speak!

2006-03-11 10:07:57
112.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers will benefit from the reflected wisdom of Frank Robinson, the most respected man in baseball. A man whose greatness dwarfs me into Peter Pinklage-status.

And if you match me up against Bowden and Robinson, I shrivel up and disappear.

2006-03-11 10:08:11
113.   Steve
Gee, it frustrates me when certain Dodgers just sit with their bats on their shoulders and watch strikes go by.
2006-03-11 10:08:33
114.   Icaros
Darn, Repko K'd.
2006-03-11 10:11:46
115.   Steve
My first five-minute impression of Reuss is that he is very easy to listen to.
2006-03-11 10:16:09
116.   Steve
Reuss just said "you need somebody with a high on-base percentage up there at the top of the lineup."

I'm sold. Lock him up.

2006-03-11 10:18:07
117.   Bob Timmermann
Frank Robinson says all leadoff hitters should draw 100 walks and score 100 runs.

ALL OF THEM.

2006-03-11 10:19:23
118.   Steve
Brendan Harris will fit right in with the rest of the Nationals' "toolsy" outfielders.
2006-03-11 10:23:01
119.   Icaros
117

My dad thinks everybody in the lineup should have a .400 OBP minimum.

2006-03-11 10:23:37
120.   Steve
Cody Ross just lost a home run to the wind.
2006-03-11 10:28:46
121.   thinkingblue
72.
Yes, I think Depo would have stood pat. After all, he had many quotes about how improvements would come from becoming healthy.

And to martinbillingsley

Does anyone actually think that this is a worse team than last year? As a unit that is. Not looking at "potential" or anything like that. I mean, actually looking at defense, depth, the way this team is built.

I don't think it's that close, this years team is built a lot better.

2006-03-11 10:28:55
122.   Steve
Jerry Reuss just accused Joe Morgan of stealing signs. I love Jerry Reuss.
2006-03-11 10:29:12
123.   Bob Timmermann
119

I'm also still stuck on Kevin Harlan's statement from last week during the UCLA-Stanford game:

"UCLA is among the top five or six elite college basketball programs of all time."

Actually since the Pac-10 isn't on ESPN, I don't think it is. All the good teams are in the Big East and ACC now aren't they?

UCLA and Kentucky never existed.

2006-03-11 10:29:43
124.   Jon Weisman
I'm on record several times in the past as being pro-Reuss, though I haven't heard him this year.
2006-03-11 10:30:41
125.   Steve
Old Friend Daryle Ward!
2006-03-11 10:30:43
126.   bigcpa
108 re: Ned rearranging the furniture

Not sure if it's been pointed out here, but the over/under on Dodger wins is currently 84.5... exactly what it was in March, 2005.

2006-03-11 10:32:26
127.   thinkingblue
126.
According to who?
2006-03-11 10:33:17
128.   Steve
Now, there's irony.
2006-03-11 10:34:58
129.   thinkingblue
But does anyone actually think there is no improvement on this team, as compared to last year?
2006-03-11 10:35:06
130.   MartinBillingsley31
126

Exactly.

Man if ned and grady could figure out guzman in the outfield and nomar at 3b and choi/saenz at 1b and lofton and mueller on the bench, it not only makes our lineup better but it makes our bench better and it gets rid of repko from the roster.

WIN WIN.

2006-03-11 10:35:15
131.   thinkingblue
But does anyone actually think there is no improvement on this team, as compared to last year?
2006-03-11 10:35:16
132.   thinkingblue
But does anyone actually think there is no improvement on this team, as compared to last year?
2006-03-11 10:35:48
133.   Steve
Meanwhile, back here above ground, Rick Monday is telling us that the Dodgers don't want Robles to focus on hitting homeruns.
2006-03-11 10:36:34
134.   Jon Weisman
121- DePo also had quotes that he was interested in improving the team. DePo was very candid about mistakes he thought he made. I think those quotes should count, too.

But I'm not going to try to convince you of any more.

2006-03-11 10:37:02
135.   thinkingblue
130.

What creative thinking. Yea, lets put Guzman in there, when he is not ready.

2006-03-11 10:37:06
136.   MartinBillingsley31
129

As compared to COMING INTO LAST YEAR, then no.

As compared to what we ended up with from injuries, if this team stays heathy, then yes.

2006-03-11 10:37:47
137.   King of the Hobos
Bowden just signed Nick Johnson to a 3 year, $16.5 mil extension. He may be oft-injured, but he could very well be their best hitter when healthy. Signing him for a little over $5 mil a year is quite nice. I'm not use to Bowden making smart moves
2006-03-11 10:38:09
138.   Icaros
133

He also said they want him to slap the ball and use his speed.

Speed? Robles?

Goodness.

2006-03-11 10:39:44
139.   Steve
He meant that they want him to use speed to try to hit homeruns, I think. I get a little lost with Monday.
2006-03-11 10:39:58
140.   natepurcell
some parts are improved. some are downgraded. some moves are nuetral.

the biggest things that will help the colletti team this year is the regression to the mean in terms of health and the closeness of the minor league prospects.

2006-03-11 10:40:20
141.   regfairfield
121 Going by what we had left at the end of the year, then yes this team is better.

Going by the outlook of the team coming in to the season (i.e. Izturis not being completely useless, Valentin hitting .220 with 20-25 home runs, Werth having power, Choi playing, etc.) then no, this team is not better.

The team lost patience, power and youth and replaced it with speed (at least at shortstop, once Werth is healthy I doubt 39 year old Lofton is faster than him) batting average, and infield defense (and even then, not by much if Garciaparra can't dig throws at first). Speed means so little in the grand scheme of things, batting average is incredibly variable from season to season, and infield defense is, at least a good thing, but not at the expense of weakening the lineup as a whole.

The way I feel about Colletti and DePo together is this: the more I thought about DePo's moves, the more I liked them. I hated the Valentin and Lowe signings at first, but then I thought about them, and realized that they were good idea. Colletti's moves seem good on the surface, but once you start factoring in things like park factor and other not as obvious factors, they look worse and worse.

2006-03-11 10:40:55
142.   Steve
Reuss also has good timing -- he lets the game get played and he shuts up during pitches. Good respect for the game.
2006-03-11 10:42:00
143.   thinkingblue
134.

But do you really think DePo would have had the communication skills to snatch Furcal from the Cubs, Lofton away from the D'Backs, Garciaparra away form the yankees, Mueller away from the Pirates, or would he have had the savvy to get Seo?
I don't think so. In fact, I bet Terry Collins would have been our manager, and the team would not have looked this good.

2006-03-11 10:42:01
144.   natepurcell
wow bowden made a good move. when healthy, nick johnson is an OBP machine. good move, per year salary is really cheap.

nick johnson at 5.5 mil per yr

or

danys baez at 4 mil per yr?

2006-03-11 10:42:14
145.   bigcpa
127 That's at my offline book. Are you quibbling with last year's over/under of 84 coming off 93 wins? How many wins do you think DePo cost us with his

121 You think DePo would have stood pat at 3rd base? Does standing pat mean extending Weaver?

2006-03-11 10:43:04
146.   Steve
Alice is jumping in with both feet this morning.
2006-03-11 10:44:26
147.   Icaros
Isn't there such a thing as Saturday school?
2006-03-11 10:45:15
148.   natepurcell
or would he have had the savvy to get Seo?

haha. the seo move was a TYPICAL depo style move. trading overvalued commodity for an undervalued one. thats why the majority of this board really likes the seo deal.

romano for perez? that worked out for us

frasor for werth? werth helped us immensely in 2004

etc etc etc.

2006-03-11 10:46:08
149.   King of the Hobos
It take savvy to rip off Minaya now?
2006-03-11 10:46:53
150.   Steve
Probably the biggest concern in today's game is the continuing of the Aaron Sele mirage.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-03-11 10:47:30
151.   natepurcell
to add, depo also got the best player and most valued commodity in the marlin deal- a young pitcher that is at least middle of the rotation but has a chance to breakout.
2006-03-11 10:48:37
152.   regfairfield
149 It takes savvy to actually want Kenny Lofton on your team in a starting role? I really don't buy Lofton's "convinced me he wanted to win" reasoning.
2006-03-11 10:49:20
153.   MartinBillingsley31
thinkingblue

Do you really think this
c navarro
1b nomar
2b kent
ss furcal
3b mueller
of drew cruz lofton
bench ledee, saenz, repko, utility infielder, backup catcher, ?.

is better than
c navarro
1b choi/saenz
2b kent
ss furcal
3b nomar
of drew guzman cruz
bench ledee, lofton, mueller, the one not starting between choi and saenz, utility infielder, backup catcher.

I don't think so.

2006-03-11 10:49:35
154.   Icaros
151

Not without gutting the team of its H&S!

2006-03-11 10:50:51
155.   bigcpa
Green for Navarro + $6M of spending cash was pretty slick too. And Gutierrez/Brown for Bradley worked out pretty well too. Come to think of it, that DePo guy was pretty savvy.

Do you think DePo would have had the savvy to pry Lance Carter from the Rays?

2006-03-11 10:51:20
156.   thinkingblue
Going by the outlook of the team coming in to the season (i.e. Izturis not being completely useless, Valentin hitting .220 with 20-25 home runs, Werth having power, Choi playing, etc.) then no, this team is not better.<<

Remember the Chigago White Sox before last year? Power, no defense, and no 5th starter? The same formula that didn't work last year?
Believe me, it is better to have speed, and defense, and a solid rotation 1 through 5.
Then the Chi Sox won the world series.

The team lost patience, power and youth and replaced it with speed (at least at shortstop, once Werth is healthy I doubt 39 year old Lofton is faster than him) batting average, and infield defense (and even then, not by much if Garciaparra can't dig throws at first). Speed means so little in the grand scheme of things, batting average is incredibly variable from season to season, and infield defense is, at least a good thing, but not at the expense of weakening the lineup as a whole.<<

I know this is is a waste of time, but every person in the line up pretty much has a higher carrer OPS, and Batting average.

2006-03-11 10:52:03
157.   King of the Hobos
Repko fails in his bunt for a hit attempt
2006-03-11 10:54:23
158.   thinkingblue
153.

Guzman is NOT ready.

2006-03-11 10:55:27
159.   natepurcell
I know this is is a waste of time, but every person in the line up pretty much has a higher carrer OPS, and Batting average

does career OPS actually matter for players in their 30s and past their primes?

2006-03-11 10:55:40
160.   Steve
I am going to hunt you all down where you live.
2006-03-11 10:56:37
161.   thinkingblue
Well, it is a safe bet over guys like Valinetin (who was older than Mueller), Phillips, and Choi.
2006-03-11 10:57:08
162.   natepurcell
re 158

dont worry TB, everyone realizes that but MB.

2006-03-11 10:57:20
163.   Steve
That's fantastic -- Glenn Hoffman left his windmill behind.
2006-03-11 11:00:26
164.   King of the Hobos
161 Valentin is 18 months older than Mueller, so a 6 month difference between starts of the season is not much of an argument. Especially with Mueller's bad knees
2006-03-11 11:00:32
165.   MartinBillingsley31
158

Then if guzman is not ready.

Do you really think this
c navarro
1b nomar
2b kent
ss furcal
3b mueller
of drew cruz lofton
bench ledee, saenz, repko, utility infielder, backup catcher, ?.

is better than
c navarro
1b choi/saenz
2b kent
ss furcal
3b mueller
of drew nomar cruz
bench ledee, lofton, repko, the one not starting between choi and saenz, utility infielder, backup catcher.

2006-03-11 11:00:50
166.   Icaros
c-a-r-e-e-r
2006-03-11 11:01:26
167.   Steve
My office needs a mini-bar.
2006-03-11 11:02:37
168.   thinkingblue
165.

Did you see Choi in the WBC? He proved further, that he can't hit great breaking pitches.
So yes, I like Choi out of the line up.

2006-03-11 11:03:39
169.   MartinBillingsley31
162

Nate.

If you compare what guzman will produce vs lofton, i bet guzman will outproduce lofton this season if given the chance.

The question is do you want to rush guzman just to get better numbers from guzman vs lofton.

2006-03-11 11:03:48
170.   Steve
Valentin is 18 months older than Mueller, so a 6 month difference between starts of the season is not much of an argument.

Where in the world have you been?

2006-03-11 11:03:59
171.   thinkingblue
164.
But Mueller has always had a higher OPS than Valinetin, so yes, if both players are past their primes, I'm taking Mueller.
2006-03-11 11:06:39
172.   thinkingblue
169.

One thing is for sure, we would have an interesting race between Dunn and Guzman for strike out title.

2006-03-11 11:08:37
173.   MartinBillingsley31
Add to 169.

I'd prefer guzman to get more time in the minors but if the alternative is having lofton starting, then its a hard choice.

2006-03-11 11:09:46
174.   Icaros
V-a-l-e-n-t-i-n
2006-03-11 11:10:30
175.   natepurcell
good news- navarro throws out a base runner

bad news- sele does his best scott erickson ST impression.

2006-03-11 11:11:20
176.   Steve
174 -- We're getting no better than we deserve.
2006-03-11 11:14:48
177.   bigcpa
171 Mueller wasn't available in Fall 2004 anyway. How about comparing Valentin for $3M to multiyear deals for Glaus or Koskie etc? Valentin was not brought in to be the rock of the lineup. He has a great arm and could hit 20 bombs with a platoon partner.
2006-03-11 11:17:54
178.   thinkingblue
177.
Platoons blow. They really do. If you have a platoon, that means that your players are not good enough to start.
2006-03-11 11:17:59
179.   Icaros
176

You're right.

2006-03-11 11:20:01
180.   Steve
Always eminently avoidable, and yet...
2006-03-11 11:20:46
181.   MartinBillingsley31
178

Platoons blow. They really do. If you have a platoon, that means that your players are not good enough to start.

Well guess what, lofton is going to platoon with repko.

2006-03-11 11:21:23
182.   Steve
About the only thing that has come out of this morning is trying to make a run at Bob Keisser's record.
2006-03-11 11:23:24
183.   natepurcell
Platoons blow. They really do. If you have a platoon, that means that your players are not good enough to start.

whos to say platoons wouldnt have career years with the dodgers?

.......anddddd i just won the argument.

2006-03-11 11:24:08
184.   thinkingblue
181.
According to who? Grady's quote on Lofton was "come August, there will be complaints of us pushing Kenny"
2006-03-11 11:26:05
185.   Steve
The Nationals skipped Daryle Ward's spot in the lineup last inning. Who says they're stupid?
2006-03-11 11:26:32
186.   thinkingblue
Who's to the sun won't rise in the west?
2006-03-11 11:26:40
187.   Icaros
180

It's like continuing to call the same girl who has already cheated on you five times.

Or any similar stupid, repetitive, pointless, obsessive behavior.

2006-03-11 11:26:52
188.   natepurcell
translation: when lofton is hitting .230 with 1 homerun come august, i am going to keep trotting him out there because he lights a fire under jd drews butt!
2006-03-11 11:28:49
189.   bigcpa
178 Do you enjoy watching Shawn Green do this against LHP? .226/.299/.370

Or how about Karros vs RHP circa 2000-2002?

2006-03-11 11:28:59
190.   MartinBillingsley31
188

LOL!, i love it.

Good job.

2006-03-11 11:30:34
191.   thinkingblue
188.
lol, but of course, Kenny has never hit under .261 in a full season.
2006-03-11 11:31:17
192.   thinkingblue
adding to 191, I mean never under.261 in over 100 games.
2006-03-11 11:31:33
193.   natepurcell
of course, kenny has never been 39 either.
2006-03-11 11:32:48
194.   GoBears
154
Not without gutting the team of its H&S!

Hee and Seop?

2006-03-11 11:33:43
195.   Bob Timmermann
I've been 39.

I wish I were still 39 sometimes.

38 was better.

Oh well.

2006-03-11 11:33:56
196.   thinkingblue
189.

Thats why we have 4 switch hitters in the line up.

2006-03-11 11:34:00
197.   bigcpa
193 You're on a roll Nate.
2006-03-11 11:35:52
198.   MartinBillingsley31
191

Don't be shocked when good ol' kenny puts up a line around 265ish ave, 340ish obp, 390ish slg, with less than 5 hr's.

2006-03-11 11:36:46
199.   natepurcell
and half of those switch hitters were found, signed, and processed by depos computer.
2006-03-11 11:37:15
200.   Icaros
Hu's at short?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-03-11 11:38:26
201.   Icaros
194

Think LoDuca.

2006-03-11 11:39:19
202.   natepurcell
speaking of one those switch hitters, is the multiple DUI convictee (H&S baby!) ever going to play?
2006-03-11 11:44:58
203.   thinkingblue
202.
Yea, on the 15 of March or so.
2006-03-11 11:45:34
204.   Icaros
Don't be shocked when good ol' kenny puts up a line around 265ish ave, 340ish obp, 390ish slg, with less than 5 hr's.

I'll be shocked. I'm expecting far less.

2006-03-11 11:46:16
205.   thinkingblue
198.
Yea, Kenny should go well under his carrer .373 OBP, and carrer .299 average.
2006-03-11 11:46:54
206.   thinkingblue
204.
But what if Depo signed him?
2006-03-11 11:47:25
207.   GoBears
178.
Platoons blow. They really do. If you have a platoon, that means that your players are not good enough to start.

Wow. That's just about the most ignorant thing I've seen on this website in 3 years. Sure, you can't platoon every position - that would require 16 bats - but platooning a few is often much better than letting a guy with big splits play every day. Just ask Bill James.

But the thing that really turns me off about that statement is that it is a bald assertion of fact without any evidence or attempt at explanation. The fact that it is wrong is not as annoying as the fact that it is asserted as Gospel without even a reference to chapter and verse.

One of the best things about nearly all the commenters at this site, and of course of the articles that Jon posts, is that the level of conversation is higher than this. I've changed my mind about things many times in my time here, but only when someone made their case with, you know, actual evidence and logic, not when people just used capital letters and bad spelling to intimidate me into agreeing with them. Sure, we've had our share of (intentional and unintentional) sophistry with numbers, but such mistakes are inevitably called into question and hashed out.

For those among us who are not SABR geeks, willing and able to chase down statistical evidence for our beliefs, the conversation works best when our statements are offered with modesty and the admission that we could well be wrong and would be willing to be convinced to change our minds if we were shown to be wrong. At the very least, recognizing the difference between opinion and fact is always a good start.

2006-03-11 11:47:57
208.   natepurcell
i find it funny that people criticized that depo for trading for damage goods with penny and i have not heard a peep out of that group of people when it comes to colletti signing furcal.
2006-03-11 11:55:31
209.   Bob Timmermann
Casey Stengel platooned a lot with his Yankee teams of the 1950s. And they ended up winning seven World Series. Yogi Berra was platooned much of the second half of his career.

Earl Weaver platooned extensively and went to four World Series, winning one and going to seven games two other times.

I would go on, but I think we've given this topic more time than it deserves.

2006-03-11 11:55:43
210.   Icaros
206

What if you were older than 16?

2006-03-11 11:57:14
211.   ToyCannon
207
I have to agree that was as ignorant a comment as I've seen on this site..

208
Because it was minor arthoscopic surgery that required 8 weeks of rehab time on a player who has played more games at SS then any other NL SS in the last 4 years and as such is a non issue.

2006-03-11 11:59:44
212.   Steve
It's still c-a-r-e-e-r.
2006-03-11 12:00:15
213.   Steve
I have to agree that was as ignorant a comment as I've seen on this site..

Hard to believe, considering the source

2006-03-11 12:08:04
214.   Marty
One thing I have to say about our new friend. He stays on message.
2006-03-11 12:14:13
215.   Icaros
214

He's riding his ten-speed to your house wearing a short-sleeved shirt and tie.

2006-03-11 12:16:24
216.   bigcpa
PECOTA has Lofton at .281/.344/.365 but more importantly only 273 pa's and a 40% chance of collapse vs. '03-'05. But who's to say they know what they're talking about with their weird stats.
2006-03-11 12:16:52
217.   Marty
215 He's going to be very cold then.
2006-03-11 12:16:54
218.   Steve
215 -- HEY!
2006-03-11 12:18:14
219.   Icaros
218

No offense. I'm related to some myself.

2006-03-11 12:19:51
220.   Bob Timmermann
I'm going to take J.D. Drew and put him in a lockbox. No one will be able to hurt him. It will be a lockbox!

Kenny Lofton is just one of the Dodgers "Thousand Points of Light".

Tippecanoe and Furcal too!

2006-03-11 12:20:11
221.   thinkingblue
ALL:

Whatever. Ya'll just stay in your fantasy stat world, still trying to simulate the PD Dodgers against the NL west of this year, trying to find the scenario where they win.

I'll come back some time in June, and when we are in first place, I will ask if you still want HEE SEOP SAENZ?

Platoons blow as well, because when a hitter gets on a roll, he doesn't want to sit down just because a lefty is on the mound. It can take a hitter out of his flow.

Of course, I know no one here wants to consider the human part of the game, so that will argument will be refuted with some thing like

"W-H-E-R-E I-S Y-O-U-R E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E ?"

Sorry, some things in baseball don't show up on the box score.

Again, when we are in first place, will you still want DePo?

2006-03-11 12:21:59
222.   Marty
See you in June. I'm holding you to your promise.
2006-03-11 12:24:56
223.   Bob Timmermann
I'll come back some time in June,

Is this an implied promise that you're leaving now! Woo hoo!

Celebrate good times, c'mon!

Of course, I know no one here wants to consider the human part of the game, so that will argument will be refuted with some thing like

"W-H-E-R-E I-S Y-O-U-R E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E?"

Hey, the kids are here are old enough that they won't fall for "the spelling the word instead of saying it" trick.

2006-03-11 12:27:28
224.   MartinBillingsley31
No pun intended.
No offense either.

But the difference between people who look at stats vs people who look at "the human part of the game" is like the difference between guys thinking with logic and women thinking with emotions.

Again no offense or pun intended.

2006-03-11 12:27:36
225.   Icaros
221

Bye.

2006-03-11 12:31:05
226.   MartinBillingsley31
224

I didn't just say that, did I.
Can't acuse me of being politically correct.

2006-03-11 12:32:21
227.   Icaros
Andy!
2006-03-11 12:35:38
228.   Icaros
[224, 226]

I know you're just teasing, but there are lots of men whose emotions get them into lots of trouble lots of times.

2006-03-11 12:36:35
229.   oldbear
Thinkingblue is serving up the batting practice today....

I'll come back some time in June, and when we are in first place,

Umm... The Dodgers were in 1st place last June also. In fact, they started out 12-2 before the injury bug hit.

Platoons blow as well, because when a hitter gets on a roll, he doesn't want to sit down just because a lefty is on the mound

Choi probably concurs. I'd rather see Choi get 600ABs than Nomar get 600ABs.

*Did you see Choi in the WBC? He proved further, that he can't hit great breaking pitches.
So yes, I like Choi out of the line up*

Choi's only played 3games in the WBC. I think he's 3-11... Nomar is like 2-20 so far. By your logic, you cant possibly want Nomar in the lineup either. I guess you support Loney at 1st I take it.

141.- Thats the best post in this thread. I feel EXACTLY the same as you do. I sometimes dont remain apathetic and calm in explaining the point. But thats exactly the way I see things too.

2006-03-11 12:37:57
230.   MartinBillingsley31
228

Yep, fights(fists).
But for the most part its true.

2006-03-11 12:39:04
231.   oldbear
224.

the difference between people who look at stats vs people who look at "the human part of the game" is like the difference between guys thinking with logic and women thinking with emotions

If DodgerThoughts had signatures, I'd put this into mine. Thats money MB! I never thought of it like that, buts its true.

2006-03-11 12:39:21
232.   Icaros
230

More than just fights.

2006-03-11 12:42:11
233.   Bob Timmermann
228
Guilty as charged, but I just do the damage with my mouth rather than my fists.
2006-03-11 12:43:05
234.   oldbear
215. This thread is awesome!

He's riding his ten-speed to your house wearing a short-sleeved shirt and tie.

Icaros with the "Lucas" reference, and it flies right over Marty's head.... Icaros keep them coming bc some people do pick those subtle things up! Very nicely played!

2006-03-11 12:47:56
235.   Fallout
224. MartinBillingsley31
Can't acuse me of being politically correct.

politically correct = politically sick

>>>Yep, fights(fists).
But for the most part its true.<<<

some men might fight, but women will smolder :)

2006-03-11 12:52:45
236.   oldbear
215... Ok, maybe I was wrong. I thought you were referencing the movie Lucas, but now I think about it and it a reference to Mormons...If you havent seen Lucas, the kid in the movie rides his bike everywhere and I think his best jock friend (Charlie Sheen) was actually named Marty.

All the showbiz talk on this site has taken over.

2006-03-11 12:55:26
237.   regfairfield
221 Not that you'll read this, but I don't think many people here believe the Dodgers won't win the division.
2006-03-11 12:57:25
238.   MartinBillingsley31
235

politically correct = politically sick

I agree 100%, bigtime.

2006-03-11 12:59:27
239.   oldbear
237. I honestly believe the Padres will but it'll be close.
2006-03-11 13:05:23
240.   regfairfield
239 And I think the Padres are one of the worst teams in baseball. Look at the diverse opinions on this site! Who says we're all clones.
2006-03-11 13:06:17
241.   PennyJavy
Is Josh Barfield going to be the Padres starting 2B this year?
2006-03-11 13:07:45
242.   natepurcell
whats there rotation?

peavy
young
park
brazelton
woody?

2006-03-11 13:08:35
243.   ToyCannon
I know I expect the Dodgers to be in 1st place in June but I'm not sure what that has to do with the "platoon" comment. The "human element" didn't seem to hinder Stengal or Weaver when they were winning all those championships while utilizing platoons up the wazoo. I do agree however that to many players get pigeonholed by current managers much to quickly as unable to hit same side pitchers with small sample sizes to back their decisions. If your not allowed to face same side pitchers at the major league level then how will you learn to hit them? This question has plagued major league managers since the beginning of baseball.
2006-03-11 13:09:51
244.   regfairfield
241 Him or Bellhorn

242 I have it as Peavy, Young, Williams, Park, Estes.

2006-03-11 13:10:18
245.   natepurcell
what comes first, the chicken or the egg?
2006-03-11 13:11:16
246.   Bob Timmermann
Stengel had a comment along the lines that the trick to managing was keeping the half of the team that liked the manager away from the half of the team that hated the manager.
2006-03-11 13:13:14
247.   D4P
239,240
Winning the NL West and being one of the worst teams in baseball were not mutually exclusive in 2005.
2006-03-11 13:13:27
248.   King of the Hobos
Monday: It's Oren-duff, not Orendorff
2006-03-11 13:14:06
249.   ToyCannon
242Until last year Woody Williams was a solid pitcher. He might be done be or he could make a comeback. Stauffer will be in the rotation at some point. Just because he failed in his first try in the big leagues doesn't mean he won't still be successfull. Chris Young will be very solid so a rotation of Peavy/Young/Woody/Stauffer and then anybody's guess for the 5th starter isn't terrible when your ace is Peavy. The Padres will compete.
2006-03-11 13:14:12
250.   natepurcell
how is orendorff pitching?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-03-11 13:15:19
251.   Fallout
245. natepurcell

The chicken.

2006-03-11 13:17:37
252.   Icaros
250

You don't want to know.

Game over.

2006-03-11 13:18:11
253.   Fallout
247. D4P

At least you're better than 4 other teams...

2006-03-11 13:18:40
254.   Icaros
Walked the first two, intentionally walked the third. Game ends when LaRoche bobbles a grounder to third.
2006-03-11 13:18:52
255.   King of the Hobos
250 Not so good. Lost the game

Good thing Justin Orenduff wasn't pitching though

2006-03-11 13:19:05
256.   natepurcell
icaros, are you saying orendorff can be our new game over!??! thats great news!!

oh wait... nm... sad face

2006-03-11 13:19:58
257.   Icaros
Game Overuff.
2006-03-11 13:20:42
258.   Icaros
Or should it be Overduff?
2006-03-11 13:22:54
259.   oldbear
Darn. Orenduff walks 2 guys, they bunt the two to 2nd/3rd. Another int'll walk to load the bases. Then LaRoche chokes a grounder.
2006-03-11 13:23:04
260.   natepurcell
game "time for duff beer" over.
2006-03-11 13:24:35
261.   Icaros
259

I missed the bunt part.

At least he got an out!

2006-03-11 13:25:31
262.   natepurcell
its never the college pitcher's fault! damn that CC draftee third basemen!
2006-03-11 13:26:22
263.   Icaros
Blame Grittle. That's what he gets paid for.
2006-03-11 13:28:41
264.   King of the Hobos
262 Laroche did bobble the ball and choke in a sense
2006-03-11 13:31:39
265.   natepurcell
thats true, but orendorff really pounded the strike zone!

we can all be glad that orenduff would have had a 1-2-3 inning.

2006-03-11 13:34:37
266.   ToyCannon
I've been trumpeting my Clippers all year so I have to make another little comment about how cool the organization has become. Got my Lakers playoff invoice last week and as usual for all sporting teams they require you to pay for every possible playoff game beforehand. Got my Clipper playoff ticket invoice yesterday and it is a quite an innovative little goody. Instead of paying for your playoff tickets they are asking for a 20% DP on your 2006/2007 tickets and they will give you all of the playoff tickets and only bill you for the tickets that are used. Now if I'm the business manager of the Clippers I would be going nuts because they are losing one thousand dollars of float for each season ticket holder over the next two months. Anyway hats off to the Clips. Plus they only increased my ticket price by 3.00 and have only increased my ticket price by 8.00 since they moved to Staples unlike the Lakers who have increased the price by 30.00 since moving to Staples.
2006-03-11 13:35:23
267.   MartinBillingsley31
Since a couple people here told me that kuo and osoria are out of options, then is our bullpen going to consist of these guys.
gagne
baez
brazoban
carter
kuo
osoria

And then if we carry 7 relievers, i'd assume it will be another lefty (wunsch or hamulak) or will it be broxton since ned or grady was quoted saying broxton has a chance to make the team.

Basically what i'm asking is who is going to probably be in the pen?

2006-03-11 13:35:52
268.   oldbear
Well if my boy has to concede the spring training ERA title to Edwin Jackson, then so be it.

its never the college pitcher's fault! damn that CC draftee third basemen

Community College..."its like a disco with books"

2006-03-11 13:36:45
269.   ToyCannon
Was reading my BP 2006 and in the comments on Yhancey they referred to the "Ghame Over" T-Shirts.
2006-03-11 13:36:52
270.   Bob Timmermann
"High school with ashtrays" was the term in the 1980s.
2006-03-11 13:38:08
271.   Bob Timmermann
269

Where's my royalty check?

2006-03-11 13:38:32
272.   oldbear
270. I referred to it as the 13th grade. Alot of my high school friends went to one since we had one in our town.
2006-03-11 13:46:46
273.   Bob Timmermann
I stopped casting aspersions at community college grads after I started going out with women who had attended them prior to going to a university.

It was very noble of me.

2006-03-11 13:47:17
274.   ToyCannon
I loved my little Glendale College in late 70's. Some of us weren't blessed with grades or money and the CC system made sure that we got another chance. 13th grade comments were made by immature snobs who for some reason couldn't by happy with the fact that not only were they getting a better education but still needed to rub the noses of those that weren't.
2006-03-11 13:51:14
275.   Fallout
274. ToyCannon

Wow. The Canon goes off.

2006-03-11 13:54:00
276.   Bob Timmermann
274

Yeah, I was on the receiving end of something like that once and it put things in perspective for me.

In fact, I go out with a proud Glendale CC grad. The worst part is that she's a USC fan.

2006-03-11 13:55:30
277.   King of the Hobos
I go to a community college (albeit as a high school student, and I'll be at a university next year as a college freshman). Can't say I'll miss good ol' COC
2006-03-11 13:56:39
278.   Icaros
You're just mad because Bob has been talking to chicks online all day.

(note: film reference)

2006-03-11 13:58:01
279.   Bob Timmermann
277

Is COC still plagued by the killer swallows?

2006-03-11 14:00:24
280.   oldbear
13th grade comments were made by immature snobs who for some reason couldn't by happy with the fact that not only were they getting a better education but still needed to rub the noses of those that weren't

Actually, I know quite a few 4yr people whom were very upset that the JUCO kids took all the easy classes their Frosh/Soph years, then transferred into the 4yr school and wound up with higher cumulative GPA's than the kids that went to a 4yr college from the beginning.

JUCO is a great tool. I wish I had loaded up some summer school sessions with JUCO classes instead of taking every class at a 4yr institute.

And honestly, at the frosh/soph level the level of instruction isnt terribly different. I think the curriculum is easier at the JUCO level, but the instruction is also better. You arent getting a TA teaching your classes at a JUCO. You are actually getting a real instructor.

2006-03-11 14:01:50
281.   King of the Hobos
279 Um...no? I'm not familiar with that reference
2006-03-11 14:03:57
282.   Icaros
The only COC I know is the band Corrosion of Conformity.
2006-03-11 14:05:16
283.   King of the Hobos
282 College of the Canyons, up here in Santa Clarita
2006-03-11 14:05:49
284.   Steve
I always wondered how many times in one day Andy LaRoche could be called "Adam" and now I know the answer is roughly "1 billion."

And in today's other news, dodgers.com just got slower. Authorities are investigating.

2006-03-11 14:31:30
285.   Bob Timmermann
279

Well let me tell ya, young man, back in my day when I worked in Santa Clarita (1987-89), COC was home to a huge population of swallows that nested along the windows of some building. And when it was "time" for swallows to do what swallows do when they want to make more swallows, the place was downright Hitchockian.

Although really the worse thing you would end up with would be some bird droppings.

2006-03-11 14:33:48
286.   Marty
I was a proud Citrus College student. Citrus was not so proud of me.
2006-03-11 14:40:03
287.   Icaros
Marty made the annual Scurvy List.
2006-03-11 14:53:11
288.   Marty
So I get a letter from one of those horrible ReFi outfits offering me a 40(!) year ARM. The really bad thing though is that there's a picture of "future hall of famer" Tony Gwynn in the upper left corner. Suddenly, I'm not such a fan of his any more.
2006-03-11 15:07:33
289.   Jon Weisman
Well, glad Sherman's March appears to be over.
2006-03-11 15:27:51
290.   Marty
Has UCLA been this impressive all year?
2006-03-11 15:35:52
291.   Bob Timmermann
Just in a recent stretch. When they were battling injuries, they looked bad and earned Steve's enmity.

But who hasn't?

2006-03-11 15:36:11
292.   Fallout
Things haved slowed down so lets have a new injection of life. Here is a Bonds article.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/060310

What I see is that Bonds was cheating even in the B4 pictures.

2006-03-11 15:45:54
293.   Bob Timmermann
Last night, when UCLA was up by 20 with about 12 minutes left a woman behind me is going "there's too much time left".

I wanted to turn around and tell her that UCLA was up by 20 against a team playing without its top scorer and was also the worst 3-point shooting team in the conference and had also scored something like 8 points in the first 8 minutes of the half.

2006-03-11 15:49:42
294.   D4P
272
I go out with a proud Glendale CC grad

Her hand, I presume...?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobt2/107969504/

2006-03-11 15:51:47
295.   Bob Timmermann
294
Yes, it is. And the amazing thing is that she doesn't like cats. But Casey didn't settle down until she came by.
2006-03-11 15:54:37
296.   D4P
295
Likes USC...Doesn't like cats...

"Her? Is she funny or something?"

2006-03-11 16:04:31
297.   Jon Weisman
293 - That woman was no doubt my aunt.
2006-03-11 16:08:55
298.   Fallout
292 OK. No body is biting. What I'm talking about is his plastic arm protector.
It seems as baseball questioned its use, Bonds just got a note from his doctor and exchanged it for a more defiant one.
2006-03-11 16:16:48
299.   Bob Timmermann
I got to be the "oldtimer" in the section at Staples last night and told people about the time when UCLA won the Pac-10 tournament. I got tell tales of Reggie Miller and Pooh Richardson.
2006-03-11 16:21:51
300.   D4P
299
Don't forget Ed O'Bannon. Who could...?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-03-11 16:23:54
301.   Bob Timmermann
No, the people sitting next to me were talking about 1995. I was talking about my time. The heyday of the Walt Hazzard era.
2006-03-11 16:27:58
302.   Bob Timmermann
And they cut me off before I could say the magic words of that season:

Fennis Dembo

2006-03-11 16:33:31
303.   Bob Timmermann
By my count, Leon Powe needs four more rebounds to tie the Pac-10 tournament record.

Phil Zevenburgen had 37 in 1987.

Yeah.. That Phil Zevenburgen.

Back in my day.

2006-03-11 16:37:13
304.   D4P
Did the Zevenburgen and (Blair) Rasmussen eras cross over at all?
2006-03-11 16:37:19
305.   bigcpa
Anyone know how Jae Seo has pitched in the WBC? Something tells me he could be the casualty if Sele wins over Grady and Ned.
2006-03-11 16:47:24
306.   Bob Timmermann
Rasmussen just missed Zevenbergen by a couple of years. The latter was a JC transfer.
2006-03-11 16:48:08
307.   Bob Timmermann
305
See Jon's new post.
2006-03-11 16:57:42
308.   Eric L
*Did you see Choi in the WBC? He proved further, that he can't hit great breaking pitches.
So yes, I like Choi out of the line up. *

I know this is from a way long time ago, but NO hitter can hit great breaking pitches. The argument would be more sound if you would have said "Choi can't lay off great breaking pitches" or something to that affect.

Albert Pujuls and Barry Bonds can't hit great breaking pitches (though Pujols doesn't strike out alot).

2006-03-11 20:54:39
309.   Andrew Shimmin
Everybody should read H.L. Mencken's In Defense of Women, but MartinBillingsley31 and Oldbear in particular. And it's free!

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1270

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