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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with
The Dodgers have waived first baseman Hee-Seop Choi and Boston has claimed him, according to Dodger public relations director Josh Rawitch. Updates to follow.
Update: Ken Gurnick's story on MLB.com.
Update 2: Boston general manager Theo Epstein is quoted in the Associated Press story:
"We have liked Choi for a long time and view this as an opportunity to acquire him when his value is down a bit," Boston general manager Theo Epstein said. "We like his power, his patience and his hands at first base. Choi provides depth for us at first base and in a way third base as well, considering Kevin Youkilis' ability to play both positions."
Mike Lowell, who won a Gold Glove at third base last year with Florida, is Boston's starter but is coming off a poor season at the plate.
"We'll see how our roster shakes out, but Choi does have minor league options if we want him to get every day at-bats in Triple-A for a period of time," Epstein said.
Epstein recognizes that despite some criticism of Choi's range, he has defensive value.
Much will be made of how many teams passed on the chance to claim Choi on waivers. That doesn't do much for me but extend the mystery of how a 27-year-old with above-average hitting ability (107 career adjusted OPS, when the league average is 100) could be so devalued.
To so many people, it never mattered to Choi how often he did things right. With Choi, somehow, the numbers didn't mean anything. His home runs didn't count - even though most of his home runs with the Dodgers came in close games. His walks were a sign of weakness. Healthier and less expensive, he flat-out outhit Nomar Garciaparra the past two seasons when park and league factors are accounted for, both in cumulative stats and rate stats, but only a minority was willing to even consider what that might mean.
Perhaps most difficult to comprehend were the chants of "Hee Seop Choi" at the ballpark. They were heard throughout the season. Could they have possibly sustained themselves if they weren't greeted frequently enough with the reward of Choi reaching base? Believe me, the current generation of Dodger fans is not a patient bunch.
Acquired cheaply for the first time in his career, perhaps Choi will no longer struggle with the wind of favorites he replaced harsh against his face.
can he catch lightening in a bottle twice?
It does seem weird that even with options, he would be outright released. Of course, his "options" would be to go play back up 1B at Vegas, or start at AA Jax.
The Choi debate rages on!
It's a paradox, though; to earn a solid starting job he's got to play well, but I don't think he'll play up to his potential unless he's handed a starting spot. My guess is that he gets about as many at-bats as he did in 2005, and puts up similar numbers.
Sorry, I was just mimicking the sound of the often-derided "Doomsday Thrush" that is indigenous to the San Gabriel Valley.
The whole Choi situation transcends insightful opinions. It's the third rail of Dodger Thoughts.
My cousin in Newton, Mass wants to treat me to a game in Fenway this summer, so it would be great to see HSC crush the ball that day.
Yahoo! This is your celebration
Yahoo! This is your celebration
Celebrate good times, come on! (Let's celebrate)
Celebrate good times, come on! (Let's celebrate)
There's a party goin' on right here
A celebration to last throughout the years
So bring your good times, and your laughter too
We gonna celebrate your party with you
Come on now
Celebration
Let's all celebrate and have a good time
Celebration
We gonna celebrate and have a good time
It's time to come together
It's up to you, what's your pleasure
Everyone around the world
Come on!
Yahoo! It's a celebration
Yahoo!
Celebrate good times, come on!
It's a celebration
Celebrate good times, come on!
Let's celebrate
We're gonna have a good time tonight
Let's celebrate, it's all right
We're gonna have a good time tonight
Let's celebrate, it's all right
Baby...
We're gonna have a good time tonight (Ce-le-bra-tion)
Let's celebrate, it's all right
We're gonna have a good time tonight (Ce-le-bra-tion)
Let's celebrate, it's all right
Yahoo!
Yahoo!
Celebrate good times, come on! (Let's celebrate)
Celebrate good times, come on!
It's a celebration!
Celebrate good times, come on! (Let's celebrate)
alomar
saenz
ledee
martinez
repko
robles
The debate ends tho.
With Lowell looking pretty awful by some reports, he should actually get some PT.
Sons of Sam Horn is confused. They don't understand why the Dodgers just handed them someone with Ortiz-like comps, a teeny salary, and an option left. They think the Sox just fleeced the Dodgers.
Actually, I think the DODGERS just fleeced the Dodgers. And they're dancing to old disco songs in celebration.
They did.
Jim Tracy fleeced the Dodgers here.
Good luck Hee Seop!
and check the payroll worksheet on the sidebar
So be it.
Let's hope Nomar stays healthy, Saenz doesn't regress, and Cruz puts up some good numbers in left.
All possible, but none likely.
Nice.
DT post of the day! hahaha.
It's great to hear stuff like this on the SOSH board:
"I was hoping the Sox would trade for him, picking him up for nothing is fantastic."
honestly, you are obessesed with him. everytime you post here, you make a reference to him.
For both the dodgers and Choi, this is awsome news!! Choi had no role on this team, and for Choi, he has a chance to play.
Also, the reason the dodgers got no value, no team was actually gonna make a trade for him, they new he wasn't making the roster. I mean, it was sad, he preformed so badly in the WBC, he didn't even make the dodgers think about putting him on the roster.
The BoSox also saw value in Alex Cora.
Red Sox claim first baseman Hee-Seop Choi off waivers from Los Angeles
03/24/2006 4:44 PM ET
Boston Red Sox Press Release
FORT MYERS, Fla. -- The Boston Red Sox today claimed first baseman Hee-Seop Choi off waivers from the Los Angeles Dodgers. Executive Vice President/General Manager Theo Epstein made the announcement from the club's Spring Training home in Fort Myers, FL.
You wonder if Theo had seriously taken the GM job that was offered to him, who would be on this roster today.
I would rather hear stuff about holes in his swing and magical fairies.
Why? We have Nomar, Saenz, Martinez can play 1st, and even Kent can as well.
Silly you, he played with iron gloves on his hands. And he told children there was no Santa Claus.
If he does wind up in AAA, I get to see him opening weekend in Pawtucket.
Why? We have Nomar, Saenz, Martinez can play 1st, and even Kent can as well.
You just don't get it.
Saenz cannot play everyday or anywhere near everyday.
Choi > martinez
Choi > izturis or whoever you put at 2b when moving kent to 1b.
its like when you break up with a girlfriend and you have that one last goodbye "sleepover".
59 Honestly no one is evaluating players based on their performance in the WBC. Do you think the Rangers are rethinking extending Mark Teixeira right now?
Cut and paste will cut down on his spelling errors too.
"Last year and this year, big difference," said Choi, "Last year, I play every day at first base. This year, backup and pinch-hitter. I want to play a lot. The Dodgers have a lot of good players. I got no chance here -- more chance in Boston.
"I feel shock, a little bit sad. I like this team, but I have to play. I [had] fun here. I have good memories of [the] Dodgers, one week, four games, seven home runs, grand slam. But they have a lot of infielders, a lot of good players. At my age, 27, I want to play more, not backup and pinch-hit."
Who did he play for?
Now I'm really sad that I didn't buy the HS Choi Korean WBC jersey before they sold out.
So, thats my new over/under heading into the season:
can Robles and Ramon hit 7 HRs in one year (2006), combined?
Except for that crucial 3-Run Homer which gave Korea the win against the U.S.
Rather than debating the credentials of Choi yet again, maybe you all want to debate the credentials of Oscar Robles and Ramon Martinez, since one or both of them are the main beneficiaries of this move.
And since the Dodgers waived him, I'm not sure it was a correct headline to say that the Dodgers lost Choi.
I thought the exact same thing. Seems more like "Dodgers intentionally release Choi, getting nothing in return."
Here's my Choi predictions this season for Pawtucket of the Internal Leauge. It is the Internatioanl League, right?
HR - 26
Avg - .273
OBP - .377
SLG - .458
OPS - .825
He might even make the Triple A all star team.
i dont like lucille II, he has no purpose but to decrease the quality of my life from having to watch him play for the dodgers.
how can his OPS be 10pts less then his (OBP + SLG)?
Come on Tahoe, make it so.
Guzman could help but he needs at bats everyday.
The fascination of ned and grady with lofton amazes me.
Guzman > lofton right now.
But then again this team has some serious flaws, more than just lofton, so why rush guzman.
Why trade when you can waive? The latter is much simpler. You don't have to deal with all those pesky "players you get in return."
I do value correct spelling - I don't think it's a meaningless skill. It adds credibility to what you write. It's also polite.
So I would ask everyone here to proof their posts. If you expect others to take the time to read what you write, you should take the time to read it yourself.
I don't think anything more needs to be said. I don't think spelling corrections need to be offered anymore.
Math errors, because those are content errors, I guess it makes sense to offer corrections.
I also want the taunting of any commenter to cease immediately.
Thanks. I really would appreciate everyone's cooperation. It's no secret that we're not all on the same page here, but we have to try to keep the discussion from getting poisoned.
at the expense of billingsley and kemp probably.
No, jasonunger. But Ned will bring aboard the bat or arm we need in July to carry us over the top.
This team has major flaws, a bat or an arm isn't going to put us over the top.
Plus your above statement would mean waiving goodbye to some of guzman billingsley laroche broxton martin.
Even Dave Ross fetched $75,000.
I'm saddened today both as a Dodger fan, and as a Korean baseball fan; yet, I am happy for Hee Seop....
Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright.
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light.
And, somewhere men are laughing, and little children shout,
but there is no joy in DT Land --
mighty Hee Seop has waivered out.
I don't know if you want to come back or not - it's certainly up to you - but you're welcome to return if you're willing to behave by the very few rules I impose.
But the fact remains that the NL West is the weakest division around, and the 2005 club performed poorly mostly due to racking up massive time on the DL. So if the 2006 club remains relatively healthy, it should win the west.
they can be raccoons! arent raccons known to steal stuff?
the answer is, because not everyone's perfect. :)
But sorta like this new book on Bonds has yanked me out of denial (or hope against hope) by proving something that had long been suspected, this Choi waiver (WAIVER?!) confirms my worst suspicions about the new Dodger management. Colletti is not the antichrist, or even the worst GM in baseball (or the NL West), but he is worse than I'd hoped he might be, and he's exactly what I'd feared he would be when his name was first announced. This will bliss out the old school "I know what I see" types in the media and fan base, but I'm sure it will prove to have been a bad move. Even if Loney and Guzman and the rest of the kids come up and star and would have made Choi (who's a few years older) redundant, to have given him away for nothing while he was still cheap is inexcusable. Since he's gone now, I would LOVE for him to become even halfway Colletti's Pedro - the guy he gave away who turned out to be a star.
Sure, Ramon II and Robles are breathing a little easier, but if they really intend to move Kent to first when (not if) Nomar gets injured, then the real beneficiary would seem to me to be Izturis, unless it happens late enough that Loney gets the call.
This is bad because I think Choi was the best 1b option for the Dodgers, even ignoring his cheap price tag, and especially so in light of that, but it's worse because of the ill it bodes for the Colletti era. He didn't just make a bad decision - he revealed that he's the kind of guy who would think that this was a good decision.
Feh.
David Ortiz's spot on the roster was taken by another known to be useless utility player: Chris Gomez.
Strange.
At least he may have a chance with the Sox and we can all look at things in October and find out which group was correct in their analysis of Choi's potential.
Waiving Choi is pretty inexcusable. I felt the same way about failing to offer arbitration to Elmer Dessens (and thereby likely forfeiting draft picks).
121 - I'm saddened today both as a Dodger fan, and as a Korean baseball fan; yet, I am happy for Hee Seop....
Well said. Hopefully Boston will be his last stop for a while, one way or another. Four teams in four seasons cannot be easy for anybody to deal with.
The clueless dogs stay upstairs.
Im just happy Choi didnt end up with the Giants, Yankees, or any other team I dont like. Boston is probably my second favorite AL team, so I can still comforably root for Choi. Although if this kind of thing becomes common for the Colletti front office, rooting for the Dodgers is going to be difficult.
If one just has a gut feeling that Nomar will have a big year, or that the Dodgers are about to make a trade, this is because one has a theory about what determines health and performance (in the Nomar case) or what the decision makers believe, how they make their choices, and what their goals are (in the trade case).
I've thought a lot about this, because this same battle between statistics and impressionistic analysis is raging in the social sciences now, and is just as counter-productive. Sabermetrics is, to my mind, a true science of baseball, at least in process, if not always in product. It hopes to learn not only what patterns exist, but to develop theories of causation that explain why they exist. The battle isn't really between statistics and something else. Heck, the singular of "data" is "anecdote." Everyone uses stats, but the pursuit of the SABR types is to use them more wisely than to spout small-sample bivariate correlations. To acknowledge that correlation does not imply causation, and to realize that without causal theories, we might be able to describe, but we can never explain.
All of that is a long-winded way of inviting the skeptics of sabermetric approaches to stick around, and to attempt to EXPLAIN those "gut instincts." Nobody "just has a feeling that X." X is a prediction, and predictions are hypotheses generated from theories about how the (in this case, baseball) world works. So rather than just describe your conclusion, try to explain it. You'll get many fewer snide rejoinders about sophistry, and many more thoughtful responses and sincere challenges.
It is profoundly worth examining where feelings come from. The feelings may very well be proven true - but we learn so much by understanding the reasons for them, and engaging with each other's feelings and instincts thoughtfully.
Those of you who consider yourselves anti-statistics or anti-some-statistics - this is the post that carves out the common ground between you and those who embrace stats. It's really worth thinking about.
Thanks, GoBears.
I think that is a better discussion than "Choi sucks, 26 teams passed on him" or the "conventional wisdom people don't like him".
http://johnstodderinexile.wordpress.com/
The funny thing about this waiver is that everyone was upset that the team was pinching pennies by getting Choi to play 1B, but they aren't criticizing Ned for pinching pennies by not sending him to Vegas. Does Loney really have to play at AAA at this stage in his career? Is he further along than LaRoche was last year?
The Indians (replaces Broussard)
The Yankees (replaces Bernie Williams, since it lets Giambi move to DH)
Milton Bradley:)
The Red Sox wasted Petagine at AAA all year and they will do the same to Choi. I don't see how his lot has changed at all. He is just insurance and they had a spot at AAA for him. Baseball no longer views Choi as a viable major league position player and nobody has any opening at DH. Ortiz is an exception but not many 27 year old waiver wires turn into anything worth talking about. He'd do better to sign a contract in Japan like Petagine did who also never got a fair shake in the states and destroyed the Japanese league.
If it means Loney will eventually be given the shot in LA, then I'm happy with it. The fact is, since Choi can only play first base, unlike some of the other infielders they have as options, his role on the depth chart/bench was more limited. Still, seems like they could have gotten something for him...
Speaking of which, since Jeremy Reed is hurt, think we can fleece Seattle into a Cody Ross trade? (And I know some of you will say "Jason Repko" but I'm not one of those. ;-) )
CP
When you make a statement, you better back it up with some sort of analysis.
Rangers get Einar Diaz and Ryan Drese
Indians get Travis Hafner
History has shown us that the Indians got a little more than a slight edge in this deal.
The fact that Beanne didnt want him doesn't prove anything, to my mind Beanne hasn't done anything to distinguish himself as a person who can build a championship offense.
However, if Beanne wanted him, Choi would be in Oakland.
Sure the Indians fleeced the Rangers but it was a trade not a waiver wire pickup. Lots and lots of one sided trades involving minor league ballplayers. Hafner had only 62 Major League at bats at the time of the deal compared to the 915 at bats Choi has accumulated.
159 Any other team, ToyCannon, and I might agree. But if anyone is going to use Choi properly, it would be a team run by Epstein (or Beane, but the A's clearly don't need him). Wasn't Snow signed during Theo's hiatus? I bet he and Lowell don't last long, and we see the Greek and Korean (respectively) Gods of Walks manning the corners in Fenway quite a bit by mid-season at the latest.
I think a Choi/Manny/Ortiz/Youkilis middle of the order would be quite impressive.
163 Great reminder about Hafner. OF course, Choi DID hit lefties in the minors, and is at least decent defensively (great hands, if not the greatest footwork). I bet that he could do it all if given the chance. He's still at what, 86 ABs against LHP for his MLB career?
However, I'm not here to wade into any Choi debates. As I said, I like the guy and wish there were a way for him to stay in Dodger Blue. This is in no way a comment on his numerical nor potential value as a baseball player. The main reason for my speaking out is in reply to GoBears' 150 post. I found his casting of the numbers-vs-nurture debate quite well done. This is, after all, the same game we're all talking about here.
And thus my contention -- if you are defending Choi due to his statistical value, turning around and presenting that sober info (sobermetrics?) in emotional, hyperbolic rhetoric is really self-defeating and off-putting for "sophists" who might want to debate you.
Instead of blaming the anti-number folks for the "snide rejoinders," let's own up to the fact that snide attitudes are the responsibility of the snide, not the target. And instead of over-stating the pro-numbers case, let what is good, important, and very intriguing information stand on its own merits.
Now that post 150 suggests that we provide evidence for all our assertions, lest they be considered, non-scientific, can anyone provide any evidence or explanation for this one?
I wouldn't mind further discussing your statement that W-L record is the most important stat for pitchers....
he was tied with Snow for the best FPCT amongst first baseman, not to mention I believe he had the highest RF amongst NL first baseman last year...
That's exactly what I meant to say. Thanks for saying it better.
As for my other referenced post 132, I was careful to not say that I thought Choi would go down as another Pedro-sized folly. I said "hope" and "half of Pedro." Heck, Choi could end up being a perennial all-star and HOFer, and still not be anywhere near as important a player as Pedro. I just hope, for his own sake and for the sake of a future, positive change in Dodger philosophy, that Choi proves Colletti wrong.
But I was careful to state it as a hope, and not as a prediction. I can't see the future any better than anyone else.
NL East - No teams. Maybe the Marlins, but they have Mike Jacobs who bats LH and is pencilled in at 1B. Choi would be redundant.
NL Central - The Astros might have been an interesting fit, but I'm think that Berkman will be at 1B again. Choi might have also been an interesting pick up for the Brewers, but Fielder bats L and I assuming that their 40 man roster is bursting.
NL West - Once again, maybe the Giants could have used Choi but they have Sweeney and Neikro at 1st. Sweeney plays the roll of LH bat. Seeing that Neddy wasn't big on Choi, I can't imagine that Sabean is either. The other teams are pretty well set (Padres have Adrian Gonzales, Rockies have Helton, D-backs have Tony Clark, Connor Jackson, and Chad Tracy listed at 1B).
AL West - As much as people would have liked to see him on the A's, I just don't think there was room. Nick Johnson and Nick Swisher are listed as 1B on ESPN. The Rangers, Angels, and Mariners are pretty well set at 1B. Maybe Choi could've worked out as a DH for one the teams.
AL Central - I'll go with reg's idea of replacing Broussard with Choi, but Broussard is cheaper and still hits LH. They aren't much different, except that Choi does get on base more.
NL East - Baltimore seems like it would have been an interesting place for him to land, but they also seem full of 1B/DH types. TB already have a more expensive version of Choi (Travis Lee, but with a better glove). Toroto has Overbay and Hinske.
Just based on a quick glance at things, there were a whole heck of a lot of teams in need of Choi's services. As much as we support Choi, let's face it. It's not like he is unique in baseball (or he has been pegged as not unique).
But personal feelings aside. Why didn't Colletti at least trade him. Choi might mean nothing to Colletti but that does not mean that he has zero value to anyone else. Colletti could have at least traded Choi, got something for him. Instead, he cut a player who hit 15 home runs last year.
Nothing in return.
This seems idiotic to me. Why not at least get a single A pitcher.
because that would be too smart...we don't want to get into anything smart.
In his first two years Hafner put up numbers that we expect from Choi (.242/.329/.387 .254 .327/.485) The difference is that Hafner was given the full time job after that while Choi was buried.
I believe the saber stuff says that he is average to slightly below average at 1B.
Based on those two things, I wouldn't call him an excellent 1B. He is probably average at best.
Saenz rate2'd an 83 last year (94 career). Phillips was an 89 (92 career). Kent has an 87 career rate2 at 1B.
For example.
Pitcher A has given up 1 run in 5 innings. The 1st 3 batters in the 6th reach base and the bases are loaded. Pitcher is replaced by a reliever and said reliever gets out of the mess unharmed.
Pitcher A went 5 innings giving up 1 run for an ERA of 1.80 I think.
Pitcher B has the same scenario. But the reliever allows all runs to score.
Pitcher B went 5 innings giving up 4 runs for an ERA of 7.20 I think.
Yet A and B pitched exacyly the same.
AERA would base runs on the situation. The stats folks would be able to come up with the best numbers.
For example if a pitcher leaves with a runner on 1st and 2 out, he could be charged with .12 runs. .12 representing the percent chance a runner scores from 1st with 2 out.
For example if a pitcher leaves with a runner on 3rd and nobody out the pitcher is charged with .91 runs.
169 DzzrtRatt = John Stodder. I outed myself maybe a month ago. But I like my pseudonym so I'm keeping him around for DT.
http://pages.map.com/pinto/charts/2702004.htm
JT Snow was a 107 last year, but is surprisingly only at 100 for his career. He's had a very odd career pattern, randomly going from the low 90s to the >107 range, with very few instances between.
Just look at h/9 w/9 hr/9 k/9 (or whip instead of h/9 and w/9) when evaluating pitchers, instead of making up new stats.
I wouldn't necessarily claim that last years sample size is anomalous to the rest of his career. The two previous years Choi had a .990 and .991 FPCT.
See, my problem is that people base their statements on their perceptions which tend to decieve them. For example, Choi can't be good defensively because most people say something like "he's big and slow". But the bottom line is, he's proven over his career that he IS a good defensive player. Obviously his earlier numbers are a little worse than last year, but I tend to attribute that to the fact that he's just getting better over time. After all, he is only 27 (right?). If he was 35 and randomly posted great defensive numbers for one year then I believe that would constitute an anomaly.
On the flip side, I look at a guy like Lofton. So many people (not necessarily around here) are so high on him because he played well last year. But I don't believe last year's performance was indicative of where his career is at now. I look at his good numbers last year, but sub par numbers the previous few years.
I guess my point is that the common perception is that Choi can't field and can't hit. Although, the numbers show he can field at a level that's at least on par with an average first baseman. Also, I think we'd all agree he has power that is far above average...I guess it just irritates me that we gave up on a guy who was never given his fair chance AND got nothing for him in the process.
Whoever it was that said the Dodgers fleeced the Dodgers....ineed.
186 That's a sound idea, bt. And it's why we look at stats such as WHIP. WHIP would punish pitchers A and B equally for that shaky start to the 6th.
ERA is a better stat over the long haul (and thus for starters) because the idea is that those sorts of flaws should even out with a big enough sample.
I guess you'd only be worried if some managers have a pattern of bringing in relievers with runners on. These days, most don't it would seem. Closers, of course, start innings. Setup guys too. And often, managers don't believe the starter is gassed until after HE gives up the bases-clearing HR (hullo, Mr. Tracy), which at least gives the reliever a clean slate.
whats wrong with making up new stats if they are shown to be relevant and a better way to measure a player's ability then the current stats?
i mean, what do you think VORP, EqA, DIPs, and other metrics are?
lefties can't play third base
I'm in the middle of reading "The Book" by Tango et al. and it seems that such stats already exist - the book has tables of expected # of runs for a given base/out state - in your example, pitchers A and B have left the bases loaded with no outs, and by recollection I think the expected number of runs for this situation is about 3.
Of course, the authors of the book would likely argue that the best method of doing this would be to look at the pitcher's wOBA (weighted on-base average, calculable for either a hitter or pitcher, for details consult "The Book"), which would be the same for both pitchers A and B. There appears to be a reasonably good way to translate wOBA to an approximation of ERA, if raw wOBA is unfamiliar to use.
I agree but leave that to the experts.
I'm just talking about anyone who still values ERA making up new stats.
You should know me by now nate.
I just didn't want to offend someone by saying that someone who still values ERA shouldn't be trying to make up new stats.
Well nate you just made me offend someone.
lol!
"oh nate, i just heard the terrible news, im so sorry son."
I would also say that the propeller heads are remarkably good at explaining complicated measures and concepts in relatively simple terms. Ironically, this will actually become less and less true as teams catch on and hire these guys, making their data and methods proprietary. Just ask MGL (only he won't tell you).
I still haven't seen Epstein's comment.
Just commenting on the fact that there's no way on this earth Choi would ever play third.
ugh, now I'm confused.
i use to play 3rd base in single A ball and i am a lefty! and i took pride in my defensive abilities!
That's right, and should make either Snow or Lowell redundant. Probably Snow first, since he can't play 3rd, while Lowell could presumably play either position.
OF course, they also have the DH, and if Big Papi gets hurt, Choi could DH.
By adding Wily Mo Pena and Choi back to back, Boston has more than made up for losing Damon to the Yankees. Or so it seems to me. Now they just need to clean out the stopgaps (Lowell and Snow - um, Snowell?) and they're locked and loaded.
Because it's you Nate, I'm thinking that either you're joking or you were a hell of an athlete. Or baserunners in single A are REALLY slow.
Did you seriously? I was drafted, I went to college (had to stop after tearing my labrum) and I NEVER saw a lefty third baseman.
If you pulled it off, I give you some serious credit....
2b- mark loretta
cf- coco crisp
lf- manny
dh- ortiz
c- varitek
rf- willy mo pena
1b- choi
3b- youkilis
ss- gonzalez/pedoria
thats a nice lineup IMO
it was single A in little league.....
216 Yeah, setting for the throw is just terrible for a lefty. When I played with my friends, I would play short since I had by far the best glove, but to make any throw meant I basically had to spin in a circle before I could release. It's not a good idea.
Now, if we could only get rid of Penny, the long national nightmare of The Trade will finally be over.
Misleading us like that....for shame...
And how Drew's 150-game season was solely because Colletti-acquisition Lofton lit a fire under him (knowing how to win, and all).
Of course, I would only hear about it from yooz guyz, since I stopped reading the LA Times as soon as Al Gore invented the internet.
Hillary rotten clinton = the most brilliant woman LOL!
Sorry couldn't resist.
I though the JTSnow acquisition was pretty lame and hope that Choi gets to fulfill his potential in Boston. On the other hand, if he stinks, Boston fans have way less patience than you guys in LA and they'll run him out of town on a rail.
I appreciate your comments and I want to clarify my post in 145 when I compared my disappointment to today's news with the disappointment I felt when Vlad slipped through our grasp. I didn't intend to compare Choi the player to Vlad the player and I'm sorry if it read that way. I was just reminded of my huge feelings of disappointment then and my huge feelings of disappointment today. With Vlad, the feeling of losing a top five talent and player that was firmly in our reach. With Choi, the feeling of if only Tracy had given him the everyday job the last two months of the season to allow the organization a chance to assess him as a player and his future with the team. If he had tanked, fine, at least we had given him a fair shot and I would accept him being waived. Instead, Phillips plays in his stead and I'm left feeling we waived a guy with solid upside without finding out enough about him.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/squirmi01.shtml
Mattingly played in 3 games at third base in 1986.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mattido01.shtml
Good ol' Town Ball:
"...bases were run in a clockwise direction and players could be put out by swinging and missing three pitched balls or by being hit with the ball while moving between bases."
http://www.19cbaseball.com/game.html
Me too. There's not really much to choose from.
I like Nomar when he was in Boston, but it'll be hard not to blame him for his expected misuse as a first baseman.
Who will ned trade away to get a so called impact player?
Billingsley, guzman, laroche, elbert, broxton, martin.
Anyhow, I hope you've gotten it out of your system and can get back in the game with a cooler head.
Overall, comments here have been stressing for a while. I really hope that -- in the words of the irrepressible Tom Boswell -- folks can bliss out some and get ready to enjoy the fast-approaching Opening Day. Maybe I'm just a schmoe, but I really don't think it's that hard to just get along in this space.
(BTW, I'll be offline near a week starting now, so I apologize for firing off a rant and then disappearing.)
We hardly knew ye, Hee Seop.
I don't envy Jon the garbage he's had to deal with over this site, recently. And it's a little unsettling, wondering whether there is a way to stave off the vandals. Maybe a new rule against taunting? It's easy to taunt without personally attacking, or using profanity, and it's just as likely to set people off. Also, are the people who get great swaths of their comments deleted, banned? I can't keep the screennames straight.
It's presumptuous of me to write this, but everybody's thinking about it, right?
Oh how I long for a more elegant and civilized age!
Before the dark times, before the empire . . .
(Please note the sarcastic humor)
Given:
-Choi is cheap, in fact, free.
-Choi has an option left.
-Choi has the possibility to be productve, with comps like Ortiz. It's more likely that he'll just be an average major leauger.
-The Sox have a bit of a question mark at first and third.
Several things can happen that have positive outcomes for the sox:
- Choi makes the Red Sox, hits well as a starting 1B, or PH. They profit from having a cheap options for either of those positions.
- Choi plays AAA, mashes it to a .850+ clip, and they trade him for something, which would be a profit.
I hope you're referring to grandcosmo's handedness and not his politics.
If I'm right that the most likely victim of Boston's Hee Swipe Choi is one JT Snow, and since our GM has a fetish for mediocre, over-the-hill ex-Giants, and since our new starting 1bman is injury prone....
I can't even finish the sentence...
Gah! We thought we had dodged that bullet, but maybe it was actually a boomerang instead...
However, since Snow was signed as a free agent, the Red Sox can't trade him unti July I believe. They would have to waive him first.
At least I think that's what happened.
Gee, Bob. I sure hope you're right. By July 1, Loney might be able to stop an LA Snow storm.
Sure, Ramon had a nice early ST start v. the typical ragtag pitching you see in first few weeks. But the guy is 33 yrs old with a career 88 OPS+ that even Dusty Baker couldn't find much use for.
This further looks silly in that Choi could have been stashed in AAA, since he has a remaining option year left. Yes, that might have conflicted with Loney's playing time, but 1/2 the games he could still be used at DH in Vegas.
It's not that Choi is a huge loss. He will likely never materialize into the good player that it once looked like he had the potential to become. But the possibility of him being a useful power bat in a platoon/ bench player role is still there. To cast that aside in favor of a 33 yr old journeymen MIFer, who happened to have a couple nice weeks of Spring Training, is the epitome of short-sightedness.
So either this was even dumber than I thought, or else it was a decision made not for Martinez, but for someone else. My guess is Izturis.
I love that the announcers keep referring to UConn as the Huskies and Washington as Washington.
Am sure the thinking was that Choi wasn't needed even as Nomar insurance. If Nomar is injured pre-Izturis return, they slide Martinez to 2b and Kent to 1b. If after Izturis' return, Kent goes to 1b, Izzy to 2nd. If the front office thinks that keeping Martinez over Choi was a good idea, they're probably also misguided enough to believe that Izturis at 2b and Kent at 1b is a good idea too.
So now House will figure it all out with some sudden flash of inspiration.
BTW, I like the show.
Again i hate to think about who ned trades at the deadline to get a so called impact player.
It seems like ned doesn't have trading skills.
I have UConn winning the whole thing, but I kind of want Washington to win.
Huck the Fuskies
So you don't want either team to win?
OOps i forgot about the seo trade.
Gold Glove.
Could be worse. Could be Bowden.
Hmm....
Maybe this game is really being played in Olympia.
Gold Glove.
Wow all these labels like gold glove, all star ect. carry alot of weight.
It will all come out in to the open on Opening Day.
There have already been a bunch of stories about how Japan's win in the WBC has shown the glories of small ball.
There is already a rule against taunting. I have brought it up many times and it goes back to the beginning of comments at Dodger Thoughts.
I have to admit that I haven't had to deal much with people here taunting me. That took me aback today.
I don't like talking about Steve in the third person like he's not here, when he might be reading. But Steve is sharp as a tack and I have loved his contributions here. He doesn't have to apologize to me, frankly. He can come back anytime if he can cut out the mockery. I'd be thrilled to forget the whole thing. But rightly or wrongly, this site is too important to me to tolerate people actively trying to cause trouble.
I don't know if people remember this, but I even scolded Bob once for a comment he made that I thought was out of line. I've had to apologize myself for comments from time to time. I don't expect people to be perfect. But if someone is going out of their way to be difficult, then I ask that they just go somewhere else.
It has been a difficult week. I don't know if the people who have been taunting Oldbear or other commenters, who have been uncivil when it's been very clear how unwelcome that is, realize how much they are hurting me each time they do it, but they really are hurting me. This site is a major investment for me, and by coming here and tearing things up, they are tearing me up. It's like I have an open house going and they're turning over my furniture and yelling at my guests. I can't imagine what would make people think that is okay.
As I think I said before, I'm sure people are mystified why I haven't done more banning. I guess I believe in the kind of community that is here, and I'm trying to convince people of its merits. So unless people are truly out of control, I'm trying to give them a chance to change.
But from now on I am going to fight to keep it clean in here, even if that means chasing away new commenters, and even if I have to take on commenters I have grown to truly enjoy. All I can do is beg people not to put me in that situation, whether it means playing along or hitting the road.
Memphis, the team i want to win it all, is still in and have looked relatively sharp this whole tourney.
and why do i want memphis to win? Because that team is soo badass and gangster (and the young adult in me comes out).
instead, he has been inconsistent and doesnt show up in big games.
they clearly have been playing favorites all night.
salt...in...wounds....!!!!
no that didnt happen at all..... (blocks out memory of biggest choke job ever)
In my head, everyone sounds like either James Earl Jones or Jim Rome, depending on the content of their prose.
Except for Christina. She sounds like Kathleen Turner. Smokey.
Or "Octo"
Projected Starting Lineup:
Rafael Furcal ~15 HR
Kenny Lofton ~5 HR
J.D. Drew ~30 HR (if healthy)
Jeff Kent ~25 HR (if health)
Nomar Garciaparra ~20 HR (if healthy)
Bill Mueller ~10 HR
Jose Cruz Jr. ~20 HR (if played)
Dioner Navarro ~10 HR
Bench:
Olmedo Saenz ~10 HR
Oscar Robles ~5 HR
Ramon Martinez ~3 HR
Sandy Alomar Jr. ~2 HR
Jason Repko ~10 JR
Ricky Ledee ~10 HR
Total: ~175 HR
Last year, that would have ranked 12th in the MLB, but that seems like an extremely optimistic scenario based on the 3 (if healthy)s, 1 (if played), and similar playing time for bench players as last year (an inherent contradiction). I'm guessing without significant changes, we end up pretty close to the 149 HR we hit last year. Of course, this year it will be 149 clutchity, veteran-savvy homeruns.
If this team is significantly better than last year's team, it will primarily be due to pitching.
My new favorite player is Hong-Chih Kuo. Let's hope I'm not a bad luck charm.
I hope you aren't talking about Gonzaga for 2 reasons:
1. They are in Eastern Washington which isn't close to Seattle
2. UCLA was the getting screwed. Gonzaga flat out blew it.
I feel sorry for Romar (who might be the best coach in the Pac 10). His team should have won the game. Mike Jensen is an absolute moron. You never foul at the end of the game. Let the guy have the layup. I've never liked the guy. It's stinks that Washington had to lose this game, especially since Brandon Roy and Bobby Jones are seniors. Jamaal Williams looked great (he's only a freshman) and I'm sure Romar recruited some top talents.
I'm the wrong guy to take up this (or any other) cause, since I've publically apologized three times, by my count, for being a jerk in your comments section. I think I've got an idea of how hard the ugly days are on you, and it's clear that you're on the case.
I spent the last three hours en route to, waiting at, and returning from the UPS hub in Ontario (couldn't get the UCon/WASH game on the radio) thinking mostly about how much I hate UPS and how much it would suck if Dodger Thoughts stopped being what it is. If not being a jerk is the only price you're asking us to pay, it's a bargain.
can someone tell me how kwame brown caught the ball in mid air, with one hand, and threw it down from the alley hoop by odom?
this is mr small hands butterfingers here.
I hope Henson is joking. Choi is going to start the season in the minors. Navarro likely won't go on the DL, which means that Alomar won't be starting on opening day.
That's Gurnick speculating. He is a very poor beat writer. I'm surprised that the LA Times hasn't inquired about his availability.
Dioner Navarro ~10 HR
Jason Repko ~10 HR
Ricky Ledee ~10 HR
Nomar Garciaparra ~20 HR*
Navarro doesnt have much power.
Repko/Ledee I cant see them hitting 20HR's.
Cruz Jr might.
Nomar hasnt hit 20 playing in Fenway/Wrigley. Chances of him doing it here?
Colletti is just. Wow. Gave away Bradley, Choi, AP for nothing. Trades Tiff/Jax for a middle reliever (which I didnt mind but you'd think you could get more for those two guys), signed Tomko, Nomar, Lofton...Is going to have Ramon Martinez and Repko both make the team. Along with Alomar.
I'm surprised Jon hasnt called a spade a spade. Maybe its the 'benefit of the doubt'. But I see nothing remotely close between Colletti's player evaluation process, and DePo's/Beane's/Epstein/any sabre GM. Ned is just about as old school as they come. He reminds me of Omar Minaya (without the budget) or Bill Bavasi of the Mariners. I think the Dodgers are going to follow those two teams paths. Either be really bad, or be average but with a massive payroll.
2007 looks bleak unless they are counting on throwing all the rookies onto the team at once.
That's why Saenz won't be playing everyday, or anywhere close.
Ok, please explain this, if you are so sure that Nomar won't hit 20+ BOMBS just because he doesn't play in Fenway.
How did Jeff Kent do it last year? I mean, he came from Houston! That's like the ultimate right handed hitter's power park, to dodger stadium, and he still hit the same as the year before.
Good hitters find ways to keep their stats no matter the ballpark. Nomar can always pump up his stats at Chase Field, Coors Field, Citizens Bank, and all the hitters ball parks.
The Dodgers finally rid themselves of burdensome first baseman Hee-Seop Choi on Friday when he was claimed off waivers by Boston.
Burdensome? Burdensome?
P.S. And I wish Theo were GM.
I harped about this earlier. He could have at least got something for Choi's 15 home runs.
But he got nothing in return and simply gave Choi away. It just goes to show the brilliance of Mr. Ned. He outsmarted Epstein!
I am almost finished with "Game of Shadows". Not to give too much away (SI.com already has), I found something of interest to Dodger fans.
Pages 35-36 cover how Peter Magowan financed AT&T park without public funds. However, in order to pay the mortgage he had to draw 3 million per year. Thus, there became an intense focus on winning now to pay the bills.
I am sure almost all of you see where this is going. Mr. Ned, the man who wins now in order to draw enough people to pay the mortgage. The question is, what player will he overpay for in order to get a gate attraction?
BTW, who is a free agent after this season?
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