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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Didn't See That Coming: Dodgers Extend Kent's Contract
2006-03-29 07:32
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Jeff Kent has hit 20 or more home runs in nine consecutive seasons and was the best second baseman in the National League last season. But at age 38, most - if not all - figured that after this season, he would give way to the Dodger youth movement.

Instead, the Dodgers announced in a press release today that they have extended Kent's contract through 2007 with an option for 2008. (The implication was that this was a team option, though it's not immediately clear. Dollar figures were not yet disclosed.)

"I'm very happy with the direction the team is going and I'm looking forward to finishing my career in a Dodger uniform," Kent said in the release.

It's possible that Kent is one of those guys, like Roger Clemens, who is going to be performing at a high level past his 40th birthday. Nonetheless, the move comes as a shock, with the combination of age and recent wrist surgery raising questions about whether this would be the year Kent finally tails off, let alone 2007 or 2008.

Kent has a long way to go before he goes from boon to burden - his EQA last year was .306. (It's funny that 13 months ago everyone worried about his defense because he was replacing Alex Cora, but no one brings that up anymore.) So perhaps my fears for this season are fairly unfounded. Still, it seems like a strange time to extend the commitment. I imagine that this is in part to try to keep the prickly player a little more content for the coming 162 games, along with a true belief on Dodger general manager Ned Colletti's part that Kent is far from done.

On a different note, this definitely raises more questions about the future of Cesar Izturis and Willy Aybar in the organization. With Bill Mueller and Andy LaRoche at third base, Rafael Furcal at shortstop, Kent at second base and James Loney (and possibly Nomar Garciaparra) at first base from now through 2007, there isn't a place for both Izturis and Aybar, if either. Even if Kent were to move to first base in 2007, only one spot opens up.

It's interesting that this move comes on the day that Furcal suffered back spasms (and faces the unfortunate timing of a cross-country flight almost immediately thereafter). It underscores the fragility of the team and how an infield like this probably can't have too much depth. Neither Kent nor Furcal are the type you would call injury-riddled, but it's within the realm of possibility that for at least a couple weeks this summer you could see Izturis and/or Aybar subbing in. So even though a trade of at least one infielder seems in order, it's not automatic.

Ultimately, if Dodger owner Frank McCourt has the money to spend, there's no harm in locking up Kent, who really is a great player. I don't think Aybar is going to be better than Kent in the next two seasons. The extension caught me off guard, but maybe that says more about me than the extension. I don't think it means that the Dodgers will bury their bigger-name prospects, like La Roche, Loney and Joel Guzman. But Colletti definitely seems ready to stick with name players until they drop.

Update: Contract details from Ken Gurnick at MLB.com ...

Kent, who will earn $9.4 million this year -- the last of a two-year contract -- will receive a base salary of $9 million in 2007 with a $2 million signing bonus and plate-appearance incentives that could reach $750,000.

Kent's 2008 salary vests at $9 million if he has 550 plate appearances in 2007, and the Dodgers hold an option at $7 million with a buyout of $500,000. With the plate-appearance escalators and buyout, the deal could max out at $22.35 million for the two seasons or be worth a minimum of $11.5 million for one season.

Update 2: The Dodgers have released Brian Meadows and told Aaron Sele he will not be on the Opening Day roster, according to Dodger public relations director Josh Rawitch. Sele has the option of going to AAA Las Vegas or asking for his release.

Update 3: The Dodgers have changed their mind on left-handed reliever Tim Hamulack, Rawitch said. The team recalled Hamulack from the minors this morning, only two days after they optioned him. The bullpen still isn't set in stone, but now it looks like it might be a seven-man group: Eric Gagne, Danys Baez, Lance Carter, Hong-Chih Kuo, Franquelis Osoria, Yhency Brazoban and Hamulack. One can deduce that the Dodgers decided to go with two short relievers (including a second lefty) instead of a potential long man like Sele.

This also spells trouble for infielder Oscar Robles being in Los Angeles on Monday, but again, let's wait and see. There's still time for the Dodgers to option a reliever and keep Robles if Furcal is looking tender, or if Little remains concerned about having a short bench.

I still hate to go into the season with only one left-handed bat on the bench against right-handed pitchers. Here are the 2005 on-base percentages of the Dodger bench against righties: (Note - small sample sizes in many cases.)

.340 Ledee
.319 Martinez
.317 Saenz
.283 Repko
.280 Alomar
(.332 Robles)

(.335 Choi)

Update 4: Dioner Navarro is in the starting lineup today, for the first time since injuring his hamstring more than a week ago.

Update 5: Ah. Jason Repko may now have to head to Las Vegas to make room for Robles, updates Gurnick.

Here are some quotes from Sele and Meadows:

"I signed to compete for the fifth starter job, then they traded for Jae Seo," said Sele. "All I could do after that was compete. I feel I threw the ball well. Maybe I caught the attention of another team."

"I had one real bad outing and that was pretty much it," said Meadows, a seven-year veteran. "I've done this job for years and seem to have done good in the past. They just didn't see me pitching for this team."

Update 6, count 'em, 6: Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus had this item about Dodger outfield prospect Matt Kemp:

People love Matt Kemp's athleticism and potential, as well as his .306/.349/.569 season at Vero Beach last year. But something about him scares the hell out of me. Vero Beach is the Florida State League's hitting paradise, and Kemp's home/road splits look like two completely different players.

(Split) AB HR AVG SLG
Home 219 22 .361 .749
Away 199 5 .246 .372

Is Vero Beach a hitter's paradise? I wasn't aware. In any case, that is one gigantic split for Kemp.

Lucky No. 7: According to The Associated Press, Kent actually said, "It's not about the money."

* * *

Today's Game

Comments (405)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-03-29 08:01:00
1.   D4P
This is depressing. I now have to put up with at least one more season of "My least favorite player in the league playing for my favorite team."
2006-03-29 08:16:18
2.   Sam DC
Not going to move it up, but for any interested, I collected some links re the Church demotion (based on a whopping 50 ST at bats!) and other DC stuff at the bottom of the last thread. Nationals/Dodgers today at 1:05 Eastern. Will add that dc blogger Ball Wonk (www.ball-wonk.com) has proposed a new scorekeeping category for the Nationals this year: "E-GM".
2006-03-29 08:18:08
3.   D4P
Given his apparent desire to win a championship before he retires, I had always figured that Kent would not resign with Depo. From Kent's perspective, I think he probably thought Depo's vision for the team relied too heavily on waiting for prospects to pan out, and that the team wouldn't reach its potential for a few years.

But with Ned at the helm, and the acquisition of proven vets who "know how to play the game and know what it takes to win," Kent evidently feels like Ned is committed to winning now.

2006-03-29 08:22:06
4.   Blu2
My guess is that this is Kent's idea, not the Dodgers... I'd also be willing to bet that before Ned agreed to it, contract language was inserted that guarantee Kent's willingness to change positions if they so request. They would have no reason in the world to extend the contract unless they were getting something out of it. Think about it: Even if Kent duplicates last season, how much is he as a 39 year old infielder going to bring on the free agent market? The Dodgers would have as good a chance as anyone else to sign him for less money than they're paying now. I am not criticizing the deal, just speculating on an explanation.
2006-03-29 08:34:57
5.   Rich Lederer
I don't think we can say the Kent signing was a good or bad move until we know the terms. Like buying a stock, the price that you pay will have a huge impact on whether it was a good decision or not.
2006-03-29 08:36:38
6.   DodgerHobbit
I think Kent agreed to this extension rather than test free agency to secure himself a job at second base. I'd guess in free agency he'd have teams interested in him, but only as a first baseman.

The Dodgers get.....hmmmm.....older

2006-03-29 08:40:51
7.   Sushirabbit
In baseball there may be no good bets, but if anyone has been consistent the last few years, Kent has (and for different teams). So, to me this is probably a good thing, unless it's a LOT of money as Rich points out. It's better, say, than signing Beltre.
2006-03-29 08:46:09
8.   dsfan
Hard to believe Kent gave any substantial discount, either in terms of money or a 1B proviso.
2006-03-29 08:49:31
9.   tjshere
Kent's position on the field was on my mind when I saw this, too. Did Kent sign only after being assured that he would remain a 2nd baseman? Did Flanders only offer the extension with the stipulation that Kent may be required to shift to 1st base at some point? Was it even discussed? I don't imagine we'll ever know.

In light of this news, I'll bet Caesar Izturis is on the phone with his agent pronto.

2006-03-29 08:49:48
10.   Jon Weisman
4 - "how much is he as a 39 year old infielder going to bring"

Look at what Steve Finley got as a 40-year-old outfielder after 2004.

2006-03-29 08:50:50
11.   Marty
This tells me that Ned thinks the really bad contract is Isturis'. This sounds like adios Cesar to me.
2006-03-29 08:52:26
12.   Daniel Zappala
Contract details up at dodgers.com now. $9 million next year and in 2008, with various incentives. Minimum of $11.5 million for one season, maximum value of $22 million for two seasons.
2006-03-29 08:53:37
13.   Jon Weisman
5 - I'm guessing Kent didn't take a paycut. I still want to know more about McCourt's finances than Kent's sticker price.
2006-03-29 09:21:21
14.   Vaudeville Villain
I don't know how I feel about this.
2006-03-29 09:23:44
15.   Blu2
I'd rather pay Kent that money than give it to Loften/Mueller/Alomar/Martinez, etc.
2006-03-29 09:24:05
16.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
The contract is by no means a steal, but it seems reasonable. Only one more guaranteed year than before, so if he craters, it's not like we're on the hook for some monster multi-year contract.

WWSH

2006-03-29 09:29:59
17.   Blu2
For Sale: Prospects. All infield positions AA or AAA level. Take old models in trade. Cheap! Contact: NedFlanders@dodgers.com...
2006-03-29 09:32:37
18.   Jon Weisman
More news: Your fears about Aaron Sele have been assuaged. See update above.
2006-03-29 09:34:00
19.   tjshere
The timing of this is what really baffles me. Seems like a bit of a gamble to offer up that much money when Kent hasn't even had a full opportunity to prove his wrist is absolutely not going to have any effect on his play. I would think making a move like this mid-season would have been more prudent.

I have to suspect Flanders has a personnel deal in mind and wanted to make sure he had Kent locked up before he makes it.

2006-03-29 09:36:05
20.   Jon Weisman
Izturis officially went on the disabled list today, by the way. Is there still a rule that you can't trade a player on the DL? I've lost clarity on that.
2006-03-29 09:51:53
21.   Bob Timmermann
Players on the DL can be traded. They can't be sent to the minors.

They usually aren't traded because teams don't want players that aren't hurt and want someone to produce right away, but there is no specific rule against it.

2006-03-29 09:52:57
22.   slackfarmer
Boy, Mr. Ned sure likes to shop (especially for old guys). Kent had a great season last year, but who thinks he is going to be able to pull that off twice more? Finley had a great half season before he crumbled.
2006-03-29 09:56:53
23.   Jon Weisman
Busy morning. More news on the bullpen. See Update 3 up top.
2006-03-29 10:02:51
24.   FirstMohican
If Ned had waited until midseason to extend Kent, he couldn't use the "distraction" excuse to not extend Gagne. (yeah yeah, I know Boras clients don't get extended, they test free agency).

Hey, this extension clearly increases the chances that Jeff Kent enters the Hall of Fame as a Dodger!

2006-03-29 10:06:11
25.   Monterey Chris
Since I live in Giants country, I hear their announcers a lot. During the second game of last year's season, the announcers were (Miller and Krukow) were shocked that the LA Times were ripping the Dodgers for being a bad team (the Giants announcers thought the Dodgers had a very good team and that DePo had done a good job in the off season) and that Kent was getting a reputation in LA of being a bad defensive 2B. They felt that he was very good defensively and that he is a sure thing for the Hall of Fame.

I like the extension. I think Kent is worth the risk.

2006-03-29 10:06:42
26.   Limey
If Little only wants 11 pitchers, maybe it's Yhency that'll be visiting Vegas?
2006-03-29 10:10:21
27.   Jon Weisman
26 - It's looking like 12 pitchers now, though it may depend on Furcal. It's now Robles vs. Brazoban, I think.

Still wondering whether they'll get anyone for Cody Ross.

2006-03-29 10:30:36
28.   natepurcell
eh whatever. i have gotten 2 hours of sleep, i cant really diagnose this move yet.
2006-03-29 10:37:26
29.   Bob Timmermann
If you were Stoic, the lack of sleep wouldn't bother you.
2006-03-29 10:38:14
30.   the OZ
13 Since you asked, an executive at another ballclub told me earlier this year that McCourt's finances ARE in pretty sorry shape to be running a ballclub. Selling his property mitigates the problem somewhat, but meeting required cash outflows could be a serious problem and require additional financing.

In his words, "McCourt has no money. They're in bad shape financially."

2006-03-29 10:41:06
31.   natepurcell
dodgers= enron of baseball.

instead of trading energy, they trade live arms for middle relievers.

2006-03-29 10:49:12
32.   D4P
According to Gameday, Lucille II just swung and missed 3 consecutive pitches in the heart of the plate.
2006-03-29 10:49:14
33.   the OZ
Indians sign Grady Sizemore to a 6-year extension. Wow.

Also, it looks like a new page design at MLB.com; thankfully, it seems they eliminated that pop-up video window.

2006-03-29 10:53:06
34.   oldbear
So DePo got Kent signed for LESS in 2005/2006, than Colletti got Kent signed for in 2007/2008....Interesting. And Kent is gonna be 38/39 yrs old... Hmmm...

Usually, its the other way around.

Dodgers continue their descent into the abyss.

2006-03-29 10:58:35
35.   natepurcell
its basically a 1 yr 11.5 mil deal if you include the bonus and the 08 buyout option.

kind of pricey if you ask me.

2006-03-29 10:59:25
36.   the OZ
34 In fairness, the difference in salary is not very significant. I can think of worse things than committing to an extra year of Jeff Kent.

There are worse places to put that money. Like veteran and former-Giant Russ Ortiz.

2006-03-29 11:00:27
37.   Sushirabbit
So if you had to choose between two, would it be another left hander in the bullpen or another left hander on the bench?

Right now I like another in the bullpen, though like Robles, I think he may be more a sentimental pick than a rational one.

It makes me feel better that martinez doesn't appear on the dodger.com 40-man roster. Sigh.

2006-03-29 11:01:27
38.   natepurcell
everytime you say the name russ ortiz, a little bit of bob dies.
2006-03-29 11:02:56
39.   MartinBillingsley31
Great signing, think about it, who else is going to outproduce kent at 2b that we can get, even with a little drop off in kent.
I bet it would be hard to come up with someone who would outproduce kent at 2b, except if you want to move someone allready on the team to 2b, but then you have a hole at the former position.
I was hoping the dodgers would re-sign kent to a 1 year with an option and that's exactly what happened.
As you know i'm not picky about paying a guy 1 or 2 million more than what he supposively deserves, so great signing.
2006-03-29 11:02:56
40.   Sushirabbit
37 ...though I like Robles, ....
2006-03-29 11:04:13
41.   oldbear
Is there anything else worth buying with that 11.5 mil in free agency?

I'm still shocked Kent got that much out of the Dodgers at his age. Unbelievable.

This also makes him pretty much non-tradable.

2006-03-29 11:05:24
42.   natepurcell
derek lee is the big positional player next free agency. he'll probably resign with the cubs though.
2006-03-29 11:07:29
43.   oldbear
As you know i'm not picky about paying a guy 1 or 2 million more than what he supposively deserves

The Dodgers have limited funds available though. Its not that Kent isnt worth 11.5 mils (he may be he may not be), the issue is could they have made better use of the money.

11.5 mils for a 38/39yr old 2nd basemen is quite a bit, when there are noticeable holes in CF, LF, and 1st.

Personally, I'd have used Kent's 11.5 mils as a down payment for Derrick Lee and or a dominant starter.

This deal on makes sense if its on a team without a budget. However, the Dodgers are not the Yankees.

2006-03-29 11:09:03
44.   oldbear
In fairness, the difference in salary is not very significant

2yrs at 17mils vs 2yrs at 22 mils or 1yr at 11.5 mils.

Its significant when you factor in age. I only hope the difference in production isnt as much either.

2006-03-29 11:10:10
45.   the OZ
41 Why would we want to trade him? The committment is only for one extra year. The only reason we'd want to get rid of him is because he would be playing poorly, and his salary wouldn't be as big a deterrent to other clubs than his performance.

We also don't know if the signing bonus is deferred, which would affect the real present value of the deal somewhat.

Consider also that many commentors here are enthusiastic about the arrival of our cheap minor-league stars. The money we save by playing rookies and second-year players in 2007-2008 has to go somewhere, and I'd rather it be Jeff Kent than the owner's pocket.

2006-03-29 11:11:40
46.   the OZ
Also worth noting that Kent is coming off a better season than when he first signed a free-agent deal with the Dodgers before 2005. That should affect his value positively.
2006-03-29 11:12:22
47.   Sam DC
Ah, the old Truby to Garcia to Saenz double play. Go Blue!
2006-03-29 11:14:03
48.   the OZ
46 Well, slightly better. I just checked, and the difference between his '04 HOU season and '05 LAN season isn't that significant. So ignore 46. Sorry.
2006-03-29 11:18:04
49.   MartinBillingsley31
43

Think about the prospects tho, and there will be alot making nothing.
guzman
laroche
martin
billingley
broxton
kuo
osoria

Plus mccourt needs to up the payroll to 115-120 million.
We are at 100 million right now and with a 120 million payroll we could have an ace starting pitcher(instead of tomko) and a power hitting oufielder(instead of lofton) and if we had those 2 i would be predicting the dodgers to win the world series this year.
If 15-20 million is the difference between just making the playoffs and a very good chance at winning it all you up the payroll to win it all.

I don't buy it that kent's contract hurts the dodgers.

2006-03-29 11:21:15
50.   Terry A
From Dodgers.com:

"Because of Furcal's injury, the Dodgers now are more likely to option outfielder Jason Repko to Las Vegas than Robles."

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-03-29 11:23:40
51.   Marty
Is anyone watching this game. Is Livan 400 pounds nowadays?
2006-03-29 11:28:27
52.   Marty
Who's Jeff Duncan?
2006-03-29 11:30:20
53.   Uncle Miltie
""Because of Furcal's injury, the Dodgers now are more likely to option outfielder Jason Repko to Las Vegas than Robles."
Steve: There is a God.

Terrible move by Colletti. Kent is going to fall apart this year and his already bad defense should get worse. If Colletti really wanted to keep Kent, couldn't he have waited until the season was over? I can't think of any other team that would be willing to give Kent this kind of money after the season he had last year, let alone after the year he will likely have in 2006. Hopefully, some prospect will force his way to the majors and Colletti will have no other option than to trade Kent to open up a spot in the infield for our blossoming young superstar.

Nate- did you ever end up finishing your paper and were you up all night? I ended up going to bed at 4.

2006-03-29 11:37:16
54.   oldbear
I don't buy it that kent's contract hurts the dodgers

If the payroll is 115-120 mils, it doesnt.
If its 100mils, I think it does.

2006-03-29 11:37:38
55.   Jon Weisman
50 - Thanks, Terry.
2006-03-29 11:38:19
56.   the OZ
53 Extending Kent this early in the year does give Colletti and Co. something of value: certainty. They can go into the season knowing that they have a 2B option in 2007 at a minimum and can approach both the 2006 in-season and post-season player acquisition periods without that question mark. This makes it a lot easier to construct the roster going forward.

Information and certainy can be extremely valuable. I'm not arguing that the decision to extend Kent was a good one, but I feel compelled to rebut arguments that it was a prima facie mistake.

2006-03-29 11:39:37
57.   Sushirabbit
Ah, the joys of html tags. :-)
2006-03-29 11:39:47
58.   MartinBillingsley31
Boston is the kinda team i like, a sabermetrics team that will spend that extra 20 million to put them over the top, mccourt and the dodgers could use some schooling from the red sox.
But i dearly love the dodgers, have loved them since 1979, so i'm not going anywhere even towards the red sox.
2006-03-29 11:39:51
59.   Jon Weisman
53 - "Kent is going to fall apart this year."

Decline, perhaps. Why do you think he will fall apart this year?

2006-03-29 11:39:56
60.   oldbear
If Jeff Kent can get 22mils over 2yrs at ages 39/40, something leads me to believe that JD Drew will opt out.

If Kent gets that, what do you think Drew will command?

2006-03-29 11:43:08
61.   Marty
Randy Johnson will not be voted Father of the Year.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12050948/

2006-03-29 11:47:46
62.   MartinBillingsley31
Just another 2 strikeouts for kuo in 1 inning of work.
I'm excited about our pen now that i know we have gagne baez kuo osoria.
Can you imagine that pen with an ace starting pitcher(instead of tomko, and a powerhitting outfielder(instead of lofton) with guzman waiting to take over if mueller or cruz go flat (mueller most likely, i think cruz is fine).
Dodgers should take some notes from the 2004 red sox.
2006-03-29 11:51:20
63.   Johnson
60 Despite his old age, Kent is perceived as a durable, Hall Of Fame 2B who provides huge offensive production from a traditionally hitting-weak position. Despite his youth, Drew is perceived as an incosistent, fragile outfielder who never lived up to expectations and who provides only adequate power from a traditionally power-rich position.

Whether the perceptions are true or not, and the relative values of Drew and Kent, are up for debate. But I don't think the Kent extension suggests that Drew is a lock to find a contract any better than 3/33 after this year (Drew's 2006 peformance pending, of course).

2006-03-29 11:53:59
64.   Johnson
63 "inconsistent", "performance" of course. I even previewed. Ugh.
2006-03-29 11:58:10
65.   MartinBillingsley31
Adding to 62

I also predicted the red sox winning it all in 2004 BEFORE THE SEASON EVEN STARTED.

2006-03-29 11:58:26
66.   blue22
63 - Drew's 2006 peformance pending, of course

Haven't you heard? JD is going to win the MVP this year. Rob Neyer said so.

2006-03-29 12:01:30
67.   bhsportsguy
Blake Dewitt, the 2B prospect who will be at Vero Beach this year, is at least 2 years away and the other middle infielders (Hu and Abreau) are probably the same so having Kent for 2 more years is okay and like others have said, once the Dodgers start bringing in prospects at the minimum, it probably equals out to some degree.

Off the top of my head, here are the Dodgers under contract for 2007 (excluding those who are not eligible for free agency)

Kent
Furcal
Mueller
Cruz, Jr. (team option for 2007)
Drew (player option for 2007)
Lowe
Penny
Perez
Tomko
Saenz
Itzturis
Quick estimate 72M in guaranteed contracts with bonuses

Players not eligible for FA on projected 25 man roster

Navarro
Robles/Repko
Seo
Carter
Brazoban
Kuo
Osoria
Hamaluck
Werth

2006-03-29 12:01:57
68.   oldbear
Wow. That Matt Kemp note up top is quite interrrrresting.
2006-03-29 12:08:24
69.   Blu2
Maybe the pitcher shuffle, taken along with the Kent extension, does indicate a possible trade going down. Brazoban, infield prospect, maybe a back-up infielder, for an outfielder, necessitating Repko going down?
2006-03-29 12:14:54
70.   MartinBillingsley31
By the way does anyone know where a person can get splits stats for minor leagues?
2006-03-29 12:20:47
71.   PennyJavy
BTF's Weighted Park Factors for Vero Beach

Runs- 1.12
Hits- 1.04
Doubles- 0.88
Home Runs- 1.62
BB- 1.07
K- 1.06

2006-03-29 12:22:42
72.   Humma Kavula
71 Home Runs- 1.62

Wow.

2006-03-29 12:23:47
73.   oldbear
Maybe Chuck Tiffany's HR problems stem from the ballpark he was pitching in...

Although, they didnt seem to effect Justin Orenduff.

Hmmmm.....?

2006-03-29 12:24:45
74.   RMAPasad
"They can go into the season knowing that they have a 2B option in 2007 at a minimum and can approach both the 2006 in-season and post-season player acquisition periods without that question mark. This makes it a lot easier to construct the roster going forward."
Does it really or does it make 2007 more complicated ? If Kent's defense at 2b falls back more (it was below avg in '05 according to Dewan), then it makes sense to move him to 1st base in 2007. In which case, you have to spend $ 11.5 mil on a 1bman not likely (at age 39) to be much better than leag avg at his position. Having to find a spot to park an $ 11 mil obligation in 2007 reduces options rather than increasing them.
2006-03-29 12:27:55
75.   bhsportsguy
Russ Martin certainly did not do anything this spring to indicate that he could skip AAA and go right to the Show.

What is the more likely scenario:
A) Martin plays the whole year at AAA, picking awards like top ten prospect, invite to futures, game while Navarro and Alomar man the post in Chavez Ravine
B) The Dodgers dump Alomar and have the youngest catching duo in the Majors
C) Someone gets dealt

2006-03-29 12:30:08
76.   dsfan
I can see the logic behind locking up Kent for another year -- although I would have waited.

My gripe: Another example of poor negotiating by the Dodgers. The club is sticking out its neck for Kent, but what part of those contractual terms reflects some reciprocity on Kent's part?

I see zero reciprocity. Those look like open-market terms -- not a guarantee two years in advance.

It should be a quid pro quo when a club is willing to guarantee a salary for a player in that age demographic -- no matter how good the player.

For those dollars, the Dodgers are getting no sweetener from Kent.

Show some negotiating acumen. If you must extend him, make it for a lower guarantee. If Kent says no, say no hard feelings and let it play out.

The Dodgers act too often like the player is doing them a favor by sticking around.

2006-03-29 12:31:26
77.   oldbear
D. Navarro is sent down to Vegas, and Russ Martin is called up.
2006-03-29 12:33:35
78.   oldbear
In which case, you have to spend $ 11.5 mil on a 1bman not likely (at age 39) to be much better than leag avg at his position.

Kent must play 2nd base for this extension to make any sense.
No reasonable person would give Kent 11.5mils to play 1st base in 2007.

2006-03-29 12:36:48
79.   MartinBillingsley31
I just went and looked at 2004 team ops and team whip.
And if i remember correct, the world series was boston vs st. louis.
Boston was #1 in team ops in all of baseball
St. louis was #3 in all of baseball and #1 in the NL in ops
Boston was #2 in all of baseball and #1 in the AL in team whip
St. louis was #1 in all of baseball in team whip

The yankees were #2 in all of baseball in team ops but #13 in team whip in 2004

All the above is a classic case of what i consider winning baseball (high ops and low whip)
And boston spent that extra little bit to put them there.

2006-03-29 12:39:45
80.   the OZ
74 "Reducing options" is sort of the point, though. It's one less variable that has to be sorted out. For better or worse, the Dodgers don't have to look for a 2B in-season or in the offseason as a result of this signing and can focus their time and resources elsewhere.
2006-03-29 12:43:55
81.   bluetahoe
I think the Kent extension really shows that people want to play for LA. Colletti's been a godsend IMHO.
2006-03-29 12:44:16
82.   oldbear
If Jay Seo is going to be skipped in the rotation the first couple weeks anyway (meaning he'll be in the bullpen), why are the Dodgers going to still carry 12 pitchers?

Is their bullpen deep enough, with Seo added to it?

2006-03-29 12:45:40
83.   oldbear
I think the Kent extension really shows that people want to play for LA.

Brian Giles?

2006-03-29 12:46:16
84.   Eric L
81 The Kent extension shows that if you offer a guy more than he will get on the free market, he is probably going to sign the contract.
2006-03-29 12:46:37
85.   Andrew Shimmin
Mike Edwards has been sent down by the Pirates. Sounds like Tracy found a GM who could put him in his place.
2006-03-29 12:47:57
86.   Eric L
85 Gio Carrara hasn't been sent down yet.
2006-03-29 12:48:49
87.   MartinBillingsley31
81

Kent said that he loves L.A. and grew up a dodger fan.
He said he wanted to end his career as a dodger WELL BEFORE BIG NED CAME ABOARD.
But i do love the signing.

2006-03-29 12:49:52
88.   Sam DC
Jimmy Rohan caught stealing home!!

Free baseball, as it were, in Vero.

2006-03-29 12:55:11
89.   GoBears
MB31: Boston is the kinda team i like, a sabermetrics team that will spend that extra 20 million to put them over the top, mccourt and the dodgers could use some schooling from the red sox.

MB31: I've really enjoyed your comments over the past few months (not to mention your decision to start using capital letters and punctuation!), but this comment returns us to the werthgagne days when you kept reminding us that all McCourt needed to do was crank up the payroll. Unless your secret plan is to bankrupt the guy and force him to sell (in which case, Amen) you have to realize that it's a lot easier for us to spend McCourt's money than it is for him to come up with that money. At this point, I have to believe that he's maxed out on payroll, and that every expensive decision will have real tradeoffs.

Maybe Colletti convinced him to overpay for short-term deals to veterans now, and recoup that money when the kids replace them, but this Kent signing would seem to defy that logic a bit. More importantly, it makes one wonder why it's combined with such a fetish for lousy backup infielders. If you're going to extend an expensive veteran, pick a position where we don't have any prospects. And no, that doesn't mean Kenny Lofton.

2006-03-29 12:58:07
90.   bluetahoe
LOL.... MB. It wasn't that long ago Kent wasn't too happy being a Dodger. Its great things have changed for the better though. The players are bitching like they used too when Colletti's predecessor was running the show.
2006-03-29 12:59:04
91.   D4P
Duncan, Rohan, and Hoorelbeke: the future has arrived.
2006-03-29 13:00:03
92.   regfairfield
They seemed happy when the signed the contract.
2006-03-29 13:00:26
93.   D4P
91
And Garcia.
2006-03-29 13:01:12
94.   bluetahoe
Whoa. Just read your comment on 34 oldbear. An abyss. Sheesh. Why don't you take your Dodger player hating back to Dodgers.com. Try rooting for the team rather than the players you like. You'll find it more fulfilling.
2006-03-29 13:01:14
95.   Sam DC
Duncan, Rohan, and Hoorelbeke: Peoples of Middle Earth Unite!

Anyhow, Sergio Garcia with a first pitch eagle off Gigantor ends it in the bottom of the 10th.

2006-03-29 13:02:02
96.   das411
89 - And if there is anything we have learned in MLB since the Olney Dynasty fell, it's that there is no one guaranteed strategy for building a World Champion ballclub.

...right?

2006-03-29 13:03:03
97.   GoBears
Cute quote about LoDuca in BP2006. Sheehan was just on The Hot List with Brian Kenny, and Kenny started with it. It could have been written by some of us. Basically, it mocks the heart and soul thing and points out that Paulie (now 34) lacks too much in the hitting and fielding categories for all that leadership to make up. And it basically says the opposite about A-Rod.
2006-03-29 13:03:33
98.   D4P
Try rooting for the team rather than the players you like.

Teams are comprised of players.

2006-03-29 13:03:57
99.   Sam DC
bluetahoe -- No call to be urging oldbear or anyone else off to another site (and certainly not based on anything in 34). You don't want to be on the receiving end of that sort of thing, and shouldn't be on the giving end either. Jon's been pretty clear on this point, I think.
2006-03-29 13:07:16
100.   bluetahoe
99. Sam.

I should have phrased it differently. I just wish he'd post his Dodger hate elsewhere. It gets tiresome.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-03-29 13:09:18
101.   MartinBillingsley31
89

Maybe Colletti convinced him to overpay for short-term deals to veterans now, and recoup that money when the kids replace them, but this Kent signing would seem to defy that logic a bit. More importantly, it makes one wonder why it's combined with such a fetish for lousy backup infielders. If you're going to extend an expensive veteran, pick a position where we don't have any prospects.

But what or which prospects would outproduce kent at 2b.
And we could trade those 2b prospects for something else.
To me and only me, we only have guzman, laroche, martin, and maybe loney and ethier as good position prospects. I'm not high on any of our middle infielder prospects except maybe dewitt and he hasn't seen AA yet(i think).
Or am i missing what you are trying to say?

2006-03-29 13:13:04
102.   Eric L
94 At least try to comprehend what OB is saying. Kent was signed for less going into his age 37 and 38 seasons on the open market last offseason. Even then, one could argue that giving Kent a 2 year deal at his age was a risk.

They extend Kent for his age 39 season at higher rate than he is getting paid now. Would Kent get that much on the open market next offseason? As each year goes by, the chance that Kent is going to decline because of age becomes more likely. It might not be inevitable, but the chances for it happening are better.

I may or may not agree with OB, but his comments were hardly hating on Jeff Kent.

2006-03-29 13:14:05
103.   das411
Off topic AND random Q here, but I have been wearing some of my random baseball t-shirts the last few days to bug a friend who hates the sport. --gasp!--

The teams I've gotten through so far have been the Mets, Marlins, Padres, and Mariners. I can think of a couple of players who have played for three of those four (Piazza, Cameron) but have there been any Dan Miceli slash Mike Morgan types who have played for all four?

2006-03-29 13:17:48
104.   bluetahoe
My bad. It wasn't player hating. It was general Dodger hating.

"Dodgers continue their descent into the abyss."

If you don't think a comment like this isn't Dodger hating then I don't know what one is. I generally ignore oldbear when he gets into his hate talk. Sometimes I feel compelled to respond though.

2006-03-29 13:17:59
105.   Eric L
103 Dang.. too bad Rickey never played for the Marlins.
2006-03-29 13:23:28
106.   blue22
103 - If the trend continues, expect to see Loduca in SD soon.
2006-03-29 13:23:29
107.   thinkblue0
bluetahoe,

It's not hate talk. Oldbear wouldn't be here unless he was a Dodger fan. It's his OPINION that he's stating. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's "hating" on the Dodgers.

Also, telling someone to go post somewhere else isn't very cool. The best part about this site is its various points of view. The difference between people here and on the official board is that people here can discuss the Dodgers logically whether they agree with each other or not...that doesn't happen on the official board.

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with oldbear, but just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's hate....and at least he posts his opinions clearly and backs up the reasons he feels that way which a lot of posters on the official board fail to do....

2006-03-29 13:25:19
108.   blue22
103 -

Oooh, ooooh! (Raises hand feverishly)

http://tinyurl.com/z7vl7

What do I win?

2006-03-29 13:27:32
109.   bluetahoe
I hear ya thinkblue0. Don't know why I got my panties in a ruffle anyways. We should all be ecstatic oldbear's predicting all this doom and gloom. He has history of being 'off target'.
2006-03-29 13:28:39
110.   Eric L
108 Wow, that is pretty good.
2006-03-29 13:29:53
111.   blue22
110 - Just lucky. I knew for a fact that he had 3 of 4. Florida was just plain lucky.

Lenny Harris is another 3 of 4 guys.

Maybe I should try to get some work done today.

2006-03-29 13:30:54
112.   bluetahoe
Lenny Harris played for the Pads/M's?
2006-03-29 13:32:28
113.   blue22
112 - Whoa, I guess he didn't. What was I looking at?
2006-03-29 13:32:31
114.   bluetahoe
Ricky Henderson's a 3 of 4.
2006-03-29 13:34:05
115.   GoBears
104 It isn't Dodger hating. At least not by my definition of "hating," although I'm vaguely aware that the term is used differently by kids these days. What I see in ob's comment is not hating at all, but pessimism about the future direction of the team. And with each decision Colletti makes, I also see more that bode ill than the few that bode well. As with Choi, Ramon II, etc., it's not so much the marginal impact of that single decision on the 2006 Dodgers that is the problem - it's what it reveals about Colletti's approach and philosophy that gets ever more troubling. If the Dodgers were the Yankees, and didn't ever need cheap prospects except as trade fodder, then fine - they could keep the Ponzi scheme going as long as they could restock the minors with assets that other teams covet. But they're not - the Dodgers are on a budget. Bigger than most budgets, but finite nonetheless.

See, that's the great thing about this site. We can argue about moves because we all understand that the Dodgers can't build a dream team (hey, Ned's an idiot - why doesn't he just trade Aybar for Pujols?!) and that there are lots of different ways to assess all of the tradeoffs (present vs. future, uncertainty with upside vs. known quantity with none, defense vs. offense). No GM will get every decision right, and knowing that, we can be optimistic, pessimistic, or just plain analytical about each one.

It is by no means Dodger-hating to argue that the GM made what looks like a bad decision. This is not a place for Kool-Aid drinkers, whether it's DePodesta flavored or Colletti flavored. And it is no measure of one's ardor as a fan that one must be only optimistic about every decision made. There's no contradiction between rooting hard for the team on the field and also opining that the team could be better (or could have been better) if not for some poor GM decisions.

2006-03-29 13:34:28
116.   Uncle Miltie
Jon, I see him hitting between .260-.270 w/ about 15 HRs. Probably slightly above average offense, but also with even worse defense. He won't be worth half of his salary.
2006-03-29 13:35:32
117.   Marty
77 Is that true that Navarro was sent down? I can't find any story on it.
2006-03-29 13:36:12
118.   Sam DC
blue -- I appreciate your responses and really don't want to come off as preachy or whatever. But even in 109, you're still personally taking on another commenter, which gets pretty uncomfortable pretty quick. Just my two cents.
2006-03-29 13:39:48
119.   GoBears
117. No, the "D" at the start refers not to Dioner, but to a new "choice D" in the multiple choice question offered earlier about the likely outcome of the catching situtation. That was a prediction, not a news flash.
2006-03-29 13:40:47
120.   thinkblue0
117-

I'm wondering the same thing

2006-03-29 13:41:08
121.   Marty
Aah. I'm my usual astute self.
2006-03-29 13:41:13
122.   bluetahoe
I do agree with you GoBears. I overstood my bounds. There's a difference in diagreeing and hating. But I have to make one more comment on the subject than I'm never speaking of it again. If the Dodgers go on to succeed and win the division, not one time during the whole season will you see any 'rah-rah, way to go, yippee, celebratory' sort of posts from oldbear. I promise you this.
2006-03-29 13:42:27
123.   OaklandAs
117, 120 I think he was responding to 75. What happens after Martin has a good season in AAA?
2006-03-29 13:42:48
124.   Jon Weisman
Bluetahoe, I have spent all the time I should have to warning people about unprovoked attacks on this site. Please leave the comments for the rest of the week.

If you want to come back and play by the rules next week, that's fine. If you find it too hard to be tolerant of others and want to stay away, I also understand.

2006-03-29 13:43:09
125.   bluetahoe
to 117 and 120.

77 was in response to 75.

2006-03-29 13:44:39
126.   jasonungar05
One reason, among many others I come to this site daily is because it's easy to think that signing Kent to an extension is the right thing to do.
2006-03-29 13:45:16
127.   dsfan
By the way, oldbear, the name "oldbear" is among my favorites.
2006-03-29 13:47:04
128.   GoBears
122. I think you're wrong. He's been around here for quite a while now, and I for one have never seen him as a doom-and-gloom type. He gets into it with natepurcell over the likely future value of prospects frequently, but he's always struck me as thoughtful.

I gather that his posts on the official board are qualitatively different. That's for the other board to worry about. If it's true, it's not reflected here. I couldn't care less what happens at the other place. I choose not to go over there precisely because I'm not interested in shouting matches. Same reason I don't pay any attention to talk radio, Jim Rome, or even most of ESPN radio these days. Posturing is boring.

2006-03-29 13:49:17
129.   das411
108 - WOW Blue, good find!

What do you win? Hmm....how's about 10+ posts that aren't about Brett Tomko or Mister Ned? :)

This could actually be an interesting game, if Jon approves...I guess we would have to stipulate MLB games though to avoid any "Canseco = Expos" type debacles...

and FYI, I did get an "alright I don't HATE the sport, I just don't like it" out of her, so mission accomplished!

2006-03-29 13:49:32
130.   D4P
"I didn't even know we were calling him Old Bear"
2006-03-29 13:49:42
131.   oldbear
122. If you continue your obsession with me, expect a very near IP address ban regarding your posting rights on this site. Jon has made it clear what is acceptable and what is not. Debate the post. Not the poster.
2006-03-29 13:51:47
132.   Jon Weisman
131 - Please don't respond to him. Let me handle it. Thanks.
2006-03-29 13:55:24
133.   Jon Weisman
So I'm guessing Repko missed on a squeeze attempt in the ninth, but Sergio Garcia won it in the 10th. Here's what I wrote about Garcia in September:

Sergio Garcia, Jacksonville, 5-10, 175, 3/20/80: At 25, he's got a tough road in in this infield-heavy system, but had his best season with a .773 OPS.

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/255147.html

2006-03-29 14:00:04
134.   Marty
Does he waggle the bat for 10 minutes like the other Garcia waggles his club?
2006-03-29 14:01:14
135.   Sam DC
133 From memory of gameday, he missed the bunt on his first attempt, than watched two called strikes.
2006-03-29 14:01:38
136.   D4P
The other Garcia has gotten better about waggling. Putting, however, is still the same old story.
2006-03-29 14:02:01
137.   Jon Weisman
A.J. Burnett has officially taken the second step in his pursuit of Darren Dreifort's career path - he'll start the season on the DL.

Jeff Kent actually said in the AP story today, "It's not about the money."

2006-03-29 14:02:25
138.   underdog
[crickets chirping]
[nervous laugh]

So...

Casey Hoorelbeke?

Great name, huh?

2006-03-29 14:04:15
139.   underdog
Yeah, Garcia could really move up their ML player rankings quickly this year - he's basically #(just off the top 10-15) with a bullet or an "up" arrow. If nothing else, the Dodgers have a lot more trade bait this year over last, to fill other needs should they arise, or should someone come a-knockin'.
2006-03-29 14:04:22
140.   Eric L
137 When I saw that last night before going to bed, I thought "uh oh, AJs doing his Dreifort impression"
2006-03-29 14:04:52
141.   underdog
"minor league," not "ML," a useless abbreviation if there ever was one.
2006-03-29 14:05:15
142.   Sam DC
137 Oh, come on, surely you could have worked some of that into a lucky seventh update?
2006-03-29 14:06:19
143.   GoBears
Thinking some more about the Kent extension, and ignoring my own advice by ignoring the size of the contract for a moment, I guess Kent is the one guy on the team whose deal was up after this year who was worth the risk. Drew is the other star in the offense, but his contract is in place unless he voids the rest or demands a renegotiation (IOW, the ball is in his court, not Colletti's). And the pitchers are, other than Gagne, either locked up or completely expendable.

So the true tests of Colletti will be:

1. Does he extend Gagne at Boras rates (hope not)

2. Does he jettison Tomko as soon as a better option presents itself (Billingsley) mid-season or next year, despite the foolish deal he gave the guy?

3. Does he re-up any of these ostensibly short-term veteran deals if they have a good season? I can swallow hard and take Nomar or Alomar or Lofton for a year, or Mueller for 2, etc., but if any of these declining, replaceable, and overpriced vets get renewed at the expense of the young guys, I'll know we're heading for Giantsland (only without the Bondsian reason for ignoring the future).

2006-03-29 14:06:32
144.   Marty
Last time I played, a couple weekends ago, I 4-putted one green. I'll be playing the same course this Sunday. We'll see if I can achieve the ellusive 5-putt.
2006-03-29 14:08:03
145.   Marty
141 Those are my initials. Actually MGL, but I'm not that MGL
2006-03-29 14:09:43
146.   Jon Weisman
142 - D'oh! Great idea!
2006-03-29 14:11:13
147.   Jon Weisman
138 - Casey Hoorelbeke, Vero Beach, 6-8, 245, 4/4/80: The Mighty Casey's 2.40 ERA led the team (except for Jose Diaz' brief appearances), and he allowed no home runs in 82 2/3 innings. Walks to strikeouts: 35/58. His older brother Jesse was but is no longer in the Dodger organization. The media guide notes that his father is the original lead singer, drummer and founder of Rare Earth.

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/255142.html

-----

So Vero is a home run haven, and Casey allowed no home runs there?

2006-03-29 14:11:32
148.   Uncle Miltie
I think Garcia a small middle infielder who was suspending for roiding last year in the minors. If that was his first hit in spring training, it's kind of funny that it was a home run.

Where are you guys hearing about Navarro being sent down?

2006-03-29 14:14:00
149.   Humma Kavula
148 He's not. This is coming from 77, which was a response ("new choice D") to 75.
2006-03-29 14:15:13
150.   underdog
147 Thanks!
And I thought that last sentence was going to end with something about "...and the Sunshine Band."

145 No offense meant [g] useless only when trying to differentiate words and phrases, not names. I have the same initials as Carl Pavano but we otherwise have little in common.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-03-29 14:15:41
151.   Eric L
137 One more thing..

Didn't Kent basically say that playing baseball WAS all about the money in an article last year?

2006-03-29 14:16:01
152.   Marty
Navarro's being sent down?

Oh wait, I started it.

2006-03-29 14:18:18
153.   D4P
151
Good point. I remember Kent saying something to the effect that he really doesn't even like playing baseball.
2006-03-29 14:19:41
154.   Humma Kavula
This would be a good time for somebody to create a fake Dodgers.com page with the headline:

NAVARRO SENT DOWN, MARTIN CALLED UP

Colletti, after reading DodgerThoughts: "Hey, That's a Good Idea"

2006-03-29 14:21:48
155.   Gen3Blue
I don't quite get it: why play Garcia and Hoorelbeek if they are not being considered for roster spots while others are? Is it a matter of having bench players around when many of the prospects have been reassigned?
2006-03-29 14:23:46
156.   GoBears
151. I'm making a list of commonly used phrases that should generally be taken to mean the opposite:

1. It's not about the money.
2. Just between you and me...
3. To be honest with you...
4. No offense, but... (and "nothing personal.."
5. IMHO
6. I'm not a racist/homophobe/sexist but...
7. I'm sorry, but...

Anyone else want to play?

2006-03-29 14:24:09
157.   Jon Weisman
155 - It's getaway day - no need to overwork the players. The roster competition is all but over, anyway - the remaining decision mostly depends on the health of Furcal and the bullpen.
2006-03-29 14:24:35
158.   Jon Weisman
156 - I've got nothing against Choi, but ...
2006-03-29 14:25:28
159.   GoBears
155. Maybe Colletti's made up his mind about everything, and now just wants to minimize injury risk. He can't not play the last few exhibition games, so he's using these scrubs as cannon-fodder.
2006-03-29 14:26:02
160.   Robert Fiore
Of course it's not money. Kent just figures the Dodgers are the last team in the majors that's going to sign Milton Bradley.
2006-03-29 14:27:17
161.   oldbear
I'm making a list of commonly used phrases that should generally be taken to mean the opposite

<-----makes a mental note to stop using 1,2,3,4,5, and 7 in future job interviews.

2006-03-29 14:30:38
162.   Marty
It's not your fault, it's mine...
It's good for you...
This hurts me more than you...
2006-03-29 14:31:18
163.   Eric L
156 And who could forget the all-time classic...

It's not you, it's....

159 Not only that, it does give the ML coaching staff a chance to see some of these guys. I doubt that they'll see them play that much live (if at all) until next ST.

2006-03-29 14:32:58
164.   King of the Hobos
147 He also saw some time in the AFL, and still managed to avoid giving up homers despite pitching in Arizona. He only pitched 7.2 innings and managed to give up 8 runs in that time, but at least he didn't give up any homers

While the Jacksonville rotation doesn't look very good (Orenduff and not much else), they look to have a nice bullpen. Hoorelbeke should join Jumbo Diaz, Greg Miller, Carlos Alvarez, Alvis Ojeda, Justin Simmons, and Mark Alexander.

2006-03-29 14:39:14
165.   jasonungar05
lol on 160
2006-03-29 14:40:40
166.   das411
156 - Some of my best friends are...(Korean)

Ohhh yeah, I remember...(Dave Magadan)!

Another clutch hit by...(Bobby Abreu) :)

2006-03-29 14:46:06
167.   trainwreck
DeWitt is going to break out huge this year I think and will be ready by 2008, but I would not be surprised to see him in 2007 some time. Aybar was never going to be a starter for this team in my opinion. I just hope we hold onto DeWitt and move Kent out of the way when DeWitt is ready.
2006-03-29 14:49:18
168.   trainwreck
*(I think)
2006-03-29 14:53:41
169.   JJoeScott
Sometimes we get lucky. I wrote when Mueller signed:

>

Just seemed logical that Coletti was keeping Kent around for awhile.

I feel like Chris Mortensen right now: One prediction (of about 100) correct! ;-)

2006-03-29 14:55:12
170.   JJoeScott
(That is, I wrote that I thought Kent would be re-upping. Nice mis-use of the paste key, eh ...

On the other hand, I did get one Final Four team correct.)

2006-03-29 15:03:43
171.   Daniel Zappala
Personally, I found 152 one of the funniest comments of the year on DT.
2006-03-29 15:15:23
172.   thinkblue0
who else thinks we should be going after Ryan Church to replace either Lofton or Cruz?

What about a combo of Ross, Repko, and Brazoban? Too much? Too little? Do I ask a lot of questions?

2006-03-29 15:18:47
173.   GoBears
172. I can think of about 243 things that would be better than starting Lofton even half the time. But Colletti apparently values the guy. He's not going anywhere unless it's to the DL.
2006-03-29 15:22:56
174.   blue22
Which way does Church swing (the bat, I mean)? LA seems to be short a RH-hitting OFer, especially if Repko starts the season in LV.
2006-03-29 15:24:27
175.   Inside Baseball
156

Stop me if you've heard this before.
I don't need a microphone.
I'm a great singer.
My comments will be brief.
This was my first time.
The doctor will be right with you.
I can take a joke as well as the next guy.

2006-03-29 15:30:37
176.   GoBears
174. Since Steve's not present, I'll step up:

The Dodgers would be short a RH-hitting OFer even if Repko stays. At least if you put any emphasis on any part of the phrase other than RH.

2006-03-29 15:31:27
177.   Linkmeister
Nobody's yet chimed in with "The check's in the mail?"

Blasted plastic card era.

2006-03-29 15:32:42
178.   Jon Weisman
Lofton (38, L) .335/.392/.420 in 110 games last year, .288 EQA

Church (27, L) .287/.353/.466 in 102 games last year, .288 EQA

It's funny that their EQAs were the same. Obviously, Church has more of a future and is cheaper.

I really don't know much about Church. No one thinks he's a fluke?

2006-03-29 15:38:11
179.   GoBears
175/177. Hmm, I'd make distinctions between self-conscious lies, self-delusions, and throwaway cliches, the very use of which indicates a guilty conscience. But it's a fun game in any case.

The one that really sticks in my craw in internet forums is the ubiquitous and disingenuous "IMHO." Yeah, right. Real humble.

2006-03-29 15:40:01
180.   GoBears
178. That IS funny. I'd also note, however, that Lofton is all about batting average, which is to say, singles. And one would expect that to dip after such an outlier year.
2006-03-29 15:40:55
181.   Sam DC
It's just had to know w/Church. He's old to be just showing up as a major league stud outfielder. But he was putting up a heck of a good year when he got injured catching a ball against the wall in Pittsburgh last season, and then he got some really bizarre treatment from management after his injury, with both Bowden and Robinson lashing him for being too slow to get back into the lineup. It was ridiculous stuff. He's a little like the Choi of DC in this way; his most reasonable supporters don't say he's the next Jim Edmonds, they just say he's showed enough to deserve more of a chance. This post offers an interesting comparison of Church's and Clint Barmes' in many ways comparable seasons: http://federalbaseball.com/story/2006/3/29/01146/2954.
2006-03-29 15:45:08
182.   overkill94
175 et. al.

"Interesting story..."

2006-03-29 15:49:43
183.   underdog
Y'all got it wrong - Navarro's not being sent down, he's being put down. That hamstring turned out to be a busted leg and they thought it best to put him out of his misery.

No, I'm kidding. They're doing this for Pat Borders, actually. [crosses self]

2006-03-29 15:54:07
184.   tjshere
176 I don't know if you specifically intended that to be an imitation or not but it was spot on. Made me laugh, too.
2006-03-29 15:54:43
185.   Sushirabbit
If I were looking for an outfielder, I'd be looking at teams likely to need a closer fast, or real fast.
2006-03-29 15:55:42
186.   FirstMohican
179 - I'm always torn on using phrases like IMHO or "I think."

For example: IMHO, I think Choi would have 25 home runs if he were to get 500 at bats. Clearly that's my opinion, and it's obvious that because I'm saying it, I also think it. But you can't just say "Choi would have 25 home runs if he were to get 500 at bats" because you sound like a know-it-all.

2006-03-29 16:01:10
187.   thinkblue0
178-

My biggest problem with Lofton is that last year's numbers aren't indicative of where his career had been going.

His previous few years are average at best, and I think it's highly unlikely that he hits .330 this year. In other words, I just feel that last year was an anomaly. Of course I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be.

Just seems like Church could be had on the cheap and it would be nice to have him in case Lofton or Cruz stinks up the joint....because I really, REALLY don't want to see Repko or Ross in the lineup what-so-ever.

2006-03-29 16:06:49
188.   GoBears
Well, first make the distincion between an opinion and a guess/hypothesis. They're not the same thing.

But it's the "H" in IMHO that bugs me.

Then again, I'm not the arbiter of discourse, nor the judge of whether someone's statement of humility is sincere or disingenuous. I guess I just like it when people think about what they write and try to be precise.

Clearly, I shouldn't grade papers and comment on Jon's blog at the same time. My red pen has taken on a mind of its own.

2006-03-29 16:07:58
189.   Andrew Shimmin
156, etc.- I'd be more than happy to [insert chore here]. . .
2006-03-29 16:08:43
190.   TheRedMenace
187 - Is it clear that Church is even available? This roster decision seems like a classic case of a team sending down a promising young player who came in to camp a little too confident in his abilities.

Would it surprise anyone if Church was back in the bigs before May rolls around?

2006-03-29 16:12:53
191.   Jon Weisman
190 - Yeah, I think this is all a theoretical discussion. Lofton's the man for now, and Church will no doubt return to D.C.
2006-03-29 16:21:59
192.   blue22
I don't think displacing Lofton is really an option, at least until he proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he's done. I think a more likely move is to pick up a RH-hitter to platoon with Lofton.

Or, like mentioned previously, platoon Lofton and Cruz, and find another fulltime guy. Maybe by June, that guy is Guzman.

2006-03-29 16:22:06
193.   GoBears
Also, with the exception of the Bradley deal, which most believe had nothing to do with on-field performance, Colletti has yet to make a deal that made the team younger or cheaper. The day he sends away a "proven veteran" for a kid with promise will be the day I reconsider my dread about the next few years.

Of course, if he lets the vets go when their contracts expire, in favor of kids we already have (with this Kent deal an exception) that's good too. But I'd be shocked if he actually were to make a trade along those lines.

That was DePodesta's most important accomplishment - purging those big contracts. While Colletti may not be the anti-Depo in that regard (the contracts he's signed have been short ones, for the most part) he's clearly got a different plan.

2006-03-29 16:25:17
194.   Andrew Shimmin
Kenny Lofton could use a platoon partner. So could Cruz. Left, Center, Right: Church, Drew, Cruz; Church, Lofton, Drew. The Nats still need a SS. . .
2006-03-29 16:26:17
195.   Andrew Shimmin
What I meant was, I agree with blue22.
2006-03-29 16:31:54
196.   MartinBillingsley31
According to foxsports the braves are the contending team this year that has the worst bullpen (our strength in my opinion).
Do the braves have anyone that could be available offensively that we might be interested in.
2006-03-29 16:36:22
197.   Blu2
Ned is reconstructing the Giants:
Kent= Bonds
Lofton= Marquis Grissom
etc
2006-03-29 16:38:05
198.   GoBears
I'd take Francouer, but he's not likely available.

194. That'd be a good test: if Colletti were willing to trade Izturis for a young, MLB-ready OFer, I'd be surprised and impressed. If anyone is going to overvalue Izzy, it's Bowden. And I guess the one thing Church would have over Ethier is that he's a righty, and so could platoon with Lofton. But then, the Dodgers will have Guzman and Werth by mid-season...

2006-03-29 16:38:46
199.   GoBears
Kent= Bonds
Lofton= Marquis Grissom
etc

Yeah, only older and not as good.

2006-03-29 16:39:09
200.   GoBears
199. I mean, relative to when the Giants got those guys.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-03-29 16:39:22
201.   Jon Weisman
193 - I just sense that as long as McCourt is keeping the checkbook open, there's no incentive for Colletti to go with an unproven rookie when he doesn't have to. I think you'll see rookies in the Dodger lineup by the end of 2007, whether it's Guzman, Billingsley, LaRoche, Martin or whoever, but they're just going to have to bang that door down.

Right now, there doesn't seem to be a need for Colletti to be clever and make a trade for an unappreciated talent. He doesn't need to watch kids go through growing pains.

By the way, techincally, the Bradley/Perez-Ethier deal made the Dodgers younger and cheaper, for what that's worth.

2006-03-29 16:43:36
202.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, go out for a few hours and miss a lot.

Picture postcard day at UCLA

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobt2/120027442/

2006-03-29 16:45:28
203.   sanchez101
197. last time I checked the Giants had more than 2 players. If Ned can duplicate Sabean's earliy success he'll be the best GM the dodgers have had in a long time.

I dont see Izturis going to Washington, they have too many infielders as is and trading for Izturis would be admitting his mistake in signing Guzman. I think the most likely destinations for Izturis are New York and Chicago. The Mets have a big hole at 2nd and the Cubs are starting a rookie at SS and Todd Walker at 2nd, how long do you think Dusty is going to let that last? Izturis to Chicago for Sean Marshall or Rich Hill would be awesome.

2006-03-29 16:46:51
204.   sanchez101
201. I agree, and cant say I blame Colletti. He cant afford to go with rookies because if they struggle and the Dodgers miss the playoffs, he gets the fired.
2006-03-29 16:47:17
205.   GoBears
201. I agree, which is why I think the real test, per 143 will be whether he continues this veteran stop-gap stuff when current contracts run out, or whether he lets the kids play.

And, yeah, I said "with the exception of the Bradley deal..." in 193. Although, now that I think about it, since Perez and Bradley took two spots on the 25-man roster, it's not clear that swapping them for a AAA guy made the MLB team younger or cheaper. They turned into Lofton and Ramon II. Maybe still cheaper, given that Bradley was due a payday.

2006-03-29 16:48:55
206.   GoBears
202. Nice pic, Bob. Looks like I picked the wrong day to stay home and "grade papers."
2006-03-29 16:50:59
207.   Jon Weisman
205 - Oops, my bad!
2006-03-29 16:54:54
208.   Andrew Shimmin
Bradley got $3 million even, right? Plus whatever second year pay is $3XXk, is still less than what Lofton makes all on his lonesome. The deal itself does directly make the club younger and cheaper, but not if you factor in replacement costs.
2006-03-29 16:56:48
209.   Telemachos
I guess I'm in the minority, thinking extending Kent is a Good Idea(tm). Firstly, as others have pointed out, he's been one of the most consistent offensive players over the last several years. Secondly, he's been the anchor on a Dodger team that needs him; he also doesn't traditionally go on the DL a lot. He provides a lot of offense for a 2B, but can play 1B in spot starts if need be, providing a bit of flexibility (admittedly his offensive numbers mean less from that position).

There's nothing to suggest that the $11.5 million he's getting would automatically be spent if he didn't re-sign, nor that it would be spent well. This is one of those instances where I think it's worth spending to get a known value than to wait and see. Even with an age decline, Kent should do just fine... and these days players seem to hold onto their offensive abilities longer than they used to.

2006-03-29 16:56:59
210.   D4P
202
Wow, go out for a few hours and miss a lot.

Moral of the story: never leave DT!

Nice photo of Casey. He looks different than he does in his other shots.

2006-03-29 16:57:55
211.   Jon Weisman
209 - I don't see that you're in the minority.
2006-03-29 16:59:58
212.   Gen3Blue
167 If Denker continues to outslug Dewitt it will mean Dewitt is not breaking out. I feel Dewitt will pull away from Denker myself, and Denker has no solid position or talent in that direction. But he is a good indicater of how DeWitt is progressing.
2006-03-29 17:00:04
213.   Bob Timmermann
I noticed that at UCLA they don't plant any trees in front of Royce Hall because they know it's the "money shot". Powell Library has two trees in front of it that make it hard to get a good view.

It was spring break so the campus was relatively empty. There were high school students walking around taking tours.

I don't recall:
1) having anyone give me a tour of campus before I started (except for my brothers)
2) having my parents accompany me. They just sort of put me in a car, drove me to the dorm, carried my stuff to the room and said "See you on Friday." (I had to go work at my dad's store on Friday nights.)

There was a dearth of "Final Four" merchandise at the store. The only "Final Four" t-shirts came in only one size. That size could best be described as: One That Would Not Fit Bob.

2006-03-29 17:03:34
214.   D4P
One of these days the clothing experts will come up with a one-size-fits-all, mesh and foam trucker T-shirt.
2006-03-29 17:11:05
215.   GoBears
213. I remember being at UCLA in 1995, when they won the NCAA tourney. Walking around campus, you would never have known it was happening. Sure, after they won the championship game, some drunk frat boys went out and flipped over a news van, but there was no buzz around campus during the 3 week run to the title. And it's not like it was old hat - UCLA hadn't won anything for about 20 years!

At CAL, the campus would be abuzz with a win over San Jose State. Beating UCLA in '86 or '87 (I forgot) to end the 26-year drought almost caused a riot.

Then, one year, I had a student tell me that the UCLA football team really sucked that year, as evidenced by their 1 loss so far. Spoiled kids! I had to explain that real love comes through shared pain, and a secondary bowl game does not constitute "pain." It's true for marriage; it's true for sports fans.

2006-03-29 17:11:24
216.   Adam
Yeah...spring break is great here. The campus is so much nicer without all the undergrads. :-)

I think they call them "helicopter parents"...hovering over their kids and making sure everything goes alright. They tend to drive the faculty batty.

2006-03-29 17:12:07
217.   D4P
Thousands of students invade Franklin St. lighting fires and turning over cars when UNC beats Duke.
2006-03-29 17:14:32
218.   Marty
Mental note to never park on Franklin St. if I'm ever in Charlotte.
2006-03-29 17:15:12
219.   Bob Timmermann
If UCLA were to win it all, that game would be played on the first day of classes. It's hard to get everyone in to a celebratory mood.

Then again, it's hard to get UCLA fans into a celebratory mood about anything. I think that UCLA will definitely have the least amount of fan support in Indianapolis.

UCLA is not exactly a sentimental favorite. I doubt Florida is going to have a lot of crowd support either with warm and fuzzy Billy Donovan coaching them.

2006-03-29 17:15:13
220.   oldbear
If Ned can duplicate Sabean's earliy success

Where is his Jason Schimdt and Barry Bonds going to come from? And steroid cream could help also...

2006-03-29 17:17:30
221.   Marty
Or Chapel Hill or something like that...
2006-03-29 17:21:48
222.   Bob Timmermann
In hindsight, I believe my parents actually came to the UCLA campus twice while I was there. Both times were in my senior year and one was graduation. I think my brothers moved me in.

It wasn't as if they didn't care. I came home practically every weekend, so it wasn't like they missed me. They also figured I was old enough to figure out what to do. I don't even recall my parents asking me what sort of classes I took. They knew I was a history major and that was enough for them.

2006-03-29 17:22:19
223.   oldbear
I agree, and cant say I blame Colletti. He cant afford to go with rookies because if they struggle and the Dodgers miss the playoffs, he gets the fired

At some point he's going to have to go with rookies. If the team misses the playoffs in 2006, is Ned going to take that same strategy "cant go with kids or will get fired..must make playoffs* into 2007?

You gotta either sign the premier/in their prime free agents (Derrick Lee), or committ to the kids. I dont think there is an in between.

But it seems at least this year, Ned has done the "in-between". What will the reaction be if he does that next year?

2006-03-29 17:23:11
224.   D4P
There's probably a Franklin St. in Charlotte, but there's probably not as many UNC students there.
2006-03-29 17:29:28
225.   GoBears
But it seems at least this year, Ned has done the "in-between". What will the reaction be if he does that next year?

Not actively dumping all the prospects counts as "in between?" Hmm, I guess maybe if Kuo and Osoria really do make the team, then there'll be a couple kids in the mix.

Problem with your "no kids in 2007 if no success in 2006" scenario is that success in 2006 might lead to a "don't change anything" attitude. Remember how DePo got raked over the coals for "breaking up a division winner?"

Good things can still happen. I'm just more and more wary of this carpetbagger from the North.

2006-03-29 17:37:01
226.   oldbear
Good things can still happen

Hopefully those good things entail going with young players entering their primes, or signing superstar/above average level free agents.

So far, I see a late 1990's-early 2000's type of team. The names have changed, but the cost-benefit problem is still very apparent.

2006-03-29 17:40:52
227.   oldbear
Not actively dumping all the prospects counts as "in between?"

Signing the low upside low downside 'safe' vets is the 'in between'. The Mueller, Nomar, Lofton, Tomko, Cruz, Carter, Alomar...

2006-03-29 17:52:35
228.   natepurcell
Nate- did you ever end up finishing your paper and were you up all night? I ended up going to bed at 4.

i finished at 7am. went to bed around 8, woke up at 1130 and spent the rest of the day at school doing pointless work. what a great day!/sarcasm

If Denker continues to outslug Dewitt it will mean Dewitt is not breaking out. I feel Dewitt will pull away from Denker myself, and Denker has no solid position or talent in that direction. But he is a good indicater of how DeWitt is progressing.

i believe dewitts going to break out as well. A lot prospect analysts, sickels, john manuel, jim callis, etc, all believe dewitt is going to have a huge offensive year this year.

In reference to denker, he outhit dewitt at columbus but when he was promoted to vero, he absolutely fell apart. Now the sample size may be too small to judge something of it, but it is worrisome. Then again, i look at what laroche did at vero when he was called up in 2003 and compare it to his 2004 year, and my worries drift away a bit.

the big thing with denker is that he must improve defensively. it seems to be a consensus with scouts is that he has fringe range, stiff movements and an average arm.

2006-03-29 17:52:40
229.   GoBears
227. Hmm... The only things worse than that would have been:

1. Looting the farm.
2. Signing clearly crappy, no-upside, huge-downside, expensive vets to long term contracts.
3. Signing the guys he did sign, only to long-term deals.

So, OK, he didn't do any of those things. But I do see zero upside and lots of downside with Lofton (age, reversion to previous mediocrity) and Mueller (injury), and even Furcal (younger, but both decline from career year and injury are likely), I see upside with Nomar, if not huge, and downside risk with Seo (career year, right?).

And I just don't see the point of Tomko or Ramon II. More expensive, older, crappier versions of what we already had, again, with no upside potential. The only thing "safe" about those two is that Colletti knew them and liked their character, I guess.

No, I take it back, the only thing "in between" about Colletti's signings is that they're short term. And as I said above, the real test is whether they stay short term (i.e., go away after a year or two) or become longer term (are extended). On that, we know nothing except that Kent just got extended. Gagne is next up, right?

2006-03-29 17:54:26
230.   the OZ
226 The difference between the team now and 1997-2002 teams is that today, we have young impact players waiting to break into the Big Leagues, while the cupboard was bare back then (Joe Thurston, anyone?).

I see your point, though, about a cost-benefit problem; Colletti doesn't seem to have been exposed to the theory that money should only be spent on top-level players, and not average veteran fill-ins.

2006-03-29 17:55:28
231.   ToyCannon
227
Let's at least be accurate. he didn't sign Cruz and he didn't sign Carter he traded for him. The players he signed were Furcal, Mueller, Nomar, Lofton, Tomko, Alomar, and now Martinez.
2006-03-29 17:56:31
232.   ToyCannon
228
Denker was moved to 3b according to the BA interview with Roy Smith.
2006-03-29 17:57:25
233.   ToyCannon
230
What is Furcal besides being the best SS in the NL last year?
2006-03-29 18:02:04
234.   GoBears
230. And while we all assume that the kids will eventually inherit the team, we still don't know that. They're mostly still there, so it's not impossible. And they're all still young enough that parking them in AAA is not unreasonable. But we'll have to wait a year or two to see if they really do become the headliners, with the Giants Reunion Tour merely a warm-up act.
2006-03-29 18:06:45
235.   oldbear
Colletti doesn't seem to have been exposed to the theory that money should only be spent on top-level players, and not average veteran fill-ins.

Exactly. With as good of farm as we supposedly have now, the 'average fill-ins' should come from the farm, which would then allow for enough cash to acquire the top-level players. Colletti had an advantage here that DePo didnt. He has those 'average-fill-ins' already on the 40-man roster, but has decided to either not go with them or trade them away. DePo had to go out and acquire those average inexpensive fill-ins (Navarro, Choi, Bradley, Werth, Perez) bc there werent any on the farm to begin with.

Ned had the advantage of both but did nothing with it.

2006-03-29 18:16:13
236.   oldbear
Gagne is next up, right?

I thought DePo's 2nd worst move was giving Gagne a 2yr deal and avoiding arbitration. It just seemed like an unnecessary 'thank offering' for Gagne's services.

Now that new mlb rules are in place, I hope Gagne is not re-upped for anything more than 9mil a year. I'd probably wait to see how he performed this year too before extending an offer.

If he is extended at a high rate, I hope the McCourts are planning to go with a 115-120 mil payroll to alleviate the cost-benefit problem.

2006-03-29 18:18:14
237.   ToyCannon
Going to be a bitter pill for you when the Dodgers win the pennant and Ned gets all the credit for putting a team that won 71 games the previous year back into the playoffs. The reason I'm not negative is because of the Depo players who will carry this team and Furcal/Mueller/Nomar will do enough to earn their money.
2006-03-29 18:18:26
238.   Adam
But, there were no top level players available this year (unless you count furcal). I'm not a huge fan of Colletti's moves, but there wasn't that much of a choice. Everyone agrees that the farm hands won't be ready until midseason at the earliest, probably not until next year. As a new GM he couldn't stand pat, especially after the disaster that was last season.
2006-03-29 18:22:15
239.   natepurcell
i think its safe to say that the dodgers view dewitt as the second basemen of the future. I think the decision to pick up kents 08 option will be based on how far dewitt is along in his development. as it stands, dewitts normal developmental curve would be

06- high A vero
07- AA jax
08- AAA vegas
09- mlb LA

the kent signing was made so that dewitt would not be rushed but also made that if dewitt developed faster then the normal developmental curve set above, the dodgers will be able to cut ties with kent after 2007 and have dewitt be the starting 2b in 2008.

IMO, dewitt will advance to AA at midseason and be called up to the majors in sept of 2007; which will make the 08 yr of kent's contract obsolete.

2006-03-29 18:23:32
240.   trainwreck
UCLA is so hard to get into now that, seemingly everyone there has to be a top student and therefore, they are way more school oriented and care more about their own grades then what is going on with college athletics. At least, that is how I grossly generalize UCLA students now.

Of course, they could just be smart enough to celebrate without having to destroy things and getting arrested.

2006-03-29 18:24:39
241.   Adam
239 By that time, Kent probably won't be able to play everyday. I don't know what the general trend for 40 year old second basemen is, but it can't be good. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to break in a rookie and have him share time with Kent.
2006-03-29 18:24:48
242.   ToyCannon
236
I agree, it was one of Depo's biggest mistakes.

239
It may also have been made with the idea that they expect to promote Loney in 2007 and having a solid hitting 2nd baseman would help as Loney breaks in. It would have been hard to start 2007 with Loney and Aybar on the right side.

2006-03-29 18:25:08
243.   Gen3Blue
238 Thanks for your comments on Dewitt/Denker
My problem is that I like to dwell on the farm system and don't relate it to the ML team which should be really important. I guess I picked up this habit from being constantly frustrated when prospects did not turn out to help the team. While we had that huge run of rookies of the year in the nineties, I'm afraid I was more influenced
by the negatives resulting from bad luck and overhype. Do you remember---
Jose Offerman was going to be the next Maury Wills; A string of first round pick pitchers who blew out their arms before the Majors? there was a guy named something like Opperman-one of a long string that led to Driefort; Ramon Martinez brothers Pedro and Jesus who were sposed to do us some good; Paul Konerko,Dave Yokum,Ben Diggins and many many more.
I'm finally enjoying the prospects and our minor teams again, but I fear that we are weak again in our lower level teams-
If we don't get Holchevar, at least we have 3 picks in the first 31 this draft.
This minor league obsession is obviously a mechanism for avoiding the major league team, and why I am trying to cure myself through Dodger Thoughts!
2006-03-29 18:25:42
244.   trainwreck
Nate,
I went to the Taste of Chaos tour last night. Pelican, As I Lay Dying, are bands you should check out if you have not already. Deftones were great of course. Thrice just played garbage from the last two albums, they really have lost their edge when it comes to performing live.
2006-03-29 18:27:34
245.   Adam
240 I don't think UCLA is harder to get into than schools such as Duke. There's just so much going on in LA that it's difficult for people to focus on any one sporting event.
2006-03-29 18:30:02
246.   trainwreck
UCLA is the most applied to school in the country, that is what makes it so hard to get into. 4.2 is the starting GPA to get into the school now if you are not a big club person or did really well on the SAT's. At least, that is what UCLA says.
2006-03-29 18:30:30
247.   natepurcell
OMG you saw pelican!?!?! ahhh i am so jealous.

pelican is literally, top 10 favorite bands of mine.

im not a fan of ASID, i think the metalcore they play is pretty generic.

but pelican, ahhh, what a beast of a band.

2006-03-29 18:32:00
248.   GoBears
237. Hardly. I fully expect the Dodgers to win the West, just as I did last year. The division stinks, so mediocre oughtta be good enough to win. That doesn't mean that the team couldn't be better, now and in the future, had Colletti not made some of the deals he made. The annoying part is that Colletti will get credit for the wrong reasons. The main reason (hopefully) will be better health. And unless Colletti really does have magical powers, that won't be his doing. The 2nd best reason is that the prospects can fill in now if injuries do hit again, whereas they were too green last year. And that isn't attributable to Colletti either. More to time having passed since the Malone scortched-earth regime.

The only (ONLY) Colletti upgrade that I see is Furcal. Maybe Mueller will be a little better than Aybar/Perez would have been, but I don't see that as obvious. And I see downgrades in CF and 1b and that more than outweigh the Furcal benefit. Even if one disagrees, and calls all the changes a wash, the increased number of wins will be a function of good fortune, not good planning.

2006-03-29 18:32:56
249.   oldbear
It would have been hard to start 2007 with Loney and Aybar on the right side

No doubt. But committing 11.5 mils to Kent for 2007 may have taken us out of the Derrick Lee sweepstakes.

And to me, Aybar is closer to being an average MLB 2nd basemen, than Loney is an average MLB 1st basemen.

I'd have let Kent go and used the money to sign D Lee.

But, maybe the Dodgers can end up signing both if the McCourts want to spend.

Imagine signing D Lee, Kent, Furcal, and then selling the farm for Miguel Cabrera...I'd rather Ned do that and go all out for a championship (acquiring true different making players), rather than do what he's currently doing.

2006-03-29 18:34:45
250.   natepurcell
No doubt. But committing 11.5 mils to Kent for 2007 may have taken us out of the Derrick Lee sweepstakes.

there is going to be no derek lee sweepstakes i think. the cubs have money and will lock him up before the season is over with no viable backup in sight.

if anything, its going to be the barry zito sweepstakes this winter.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-03-29 18:37:17
251.   Adam
250 The Zito sweepstakes is something that I want no part of.
2006-03-29 18:38:31
252.   regfairfield
250 I wonder if the Dodgers have the stones to go after Zito. We already are committed to five starters in 2006, and signing Zito means dumping either Seo or Tomko (note this shouldn't be hard, but who knows.) When you factor in Billingsley, it's going to be hard to let go of a guy like Seo.
2006-03-29 18:40:54
253.   natepurcell
i think the dodgers should go after zito if they can trade off odalis and tomko for reasonable players.

a 2007 rotation of
penny
zito
lowe
seo
billingsley

is something i wouldnt mind at all.

2006-03-29 18:42:06
254.   trainwreck
I have never listened to As I Lay Dying's cds, but live they were really good. Some of their guitar rifts were pretty sick.

Yeah, Pelican was amazing. The funny thing is that no one gave them love. Everyone (mostly emo kids) just look dumb founded (Hey dude where's the singer man and why are these songs so long). Myy friend and I were seemingly the only ones cheering loudly or even into the band. They definitely seemed out of place, but that was a very good thing for me.

2006-03-29 18:43:27
255.   GoBears
246. Yes, but getting a 4.2 GPA in California high schools is ridiculously easy. It's all grade inflation, and does not reflect actual knowledge of anything or study habits. My experience at UCLA for the last 12 years is that the students are just as smart as they were 12 years ago, but they haven't learned half as much about anything in high school, and because they were able to get straight A's without working hard in HS, they don't have anything resembling good study habits. I can promise you that the apathy concerning intercollegiate sports is by no means a function of bookwormism. More likely, it's video games, clubbing, and booze.

I don't mean to imply that there are no hard workers or really terrific students. There are some who are really a pleasure to teach. But there are fewer than there used to be. Trust me - I just turned in my grades.

It could be different in the hard sciences - I don't know, because I rarely see those students.

I would bet that the average UCLA undergrad steps foot in a library less than once per academic year. If they can't find something in a 5 minute Google search, it apparently doesn't exist (and we all know that everything on the Internet is reliable).

2006-03-29 18:43:30
256.   overkill94
250 I agree, he seems to be the new face of the Cubs with Sammy gone and their pitching staff being very injury-prone. I'm expecting something like a 4-year / 56 million dollar extension sometime in June.
2006-03-29 18:43:38
257.   MartinBillingsley31
253

That would be nice nate.

2006-03-29 18:43:40
258.   oldbear
Would you rather spend 12+ on Zito, or 6-8 on Mark Mulder?

I'd probably spend it on Zito.

Or neither?

The pitcher I want is Carlos Zambrano, but I'm not sure when he's gonna be a free agent. I'm not sure if the Cubs can afford Aramis, DLee, Wood, Prior-extension, Zambrano-extension...?

2006-03-29 18:44:54
259.   natepurcell
if you like pelican, check out

red sparowes
old man gloom
tides
akimbo
mouth of the architect
cult of luna

2006-03-29 18:45:12
260.   trainwreck
Dillinger is the band I am dying to see live, along with, Sleepytime Gorillia Museum, Tomahawk, and Fantomas.
2006-03-29 18:45:13
261.   Bob Timmermann
245

I would incline to agree with the "L.A. is a big place" kind of town for the lack of any kind of celebration.

It's not like USC students went wild after they won a couple of national championships in football either.

The only time I can recall any sort of big spontaneous celebration in L.A. that was destructive was after the Lakers first championship at Staples.

And that happened:
1) at night
2) in an area where it was easy for pedestrians to gather
3) where people could watch the game on video screens outside the stadium
4) the team appealled to a wide spectrum of the population
5) it had been a few years since an L.A. pro team had won anything

There are a lot of people who root for USC and UCLA. Not many root for both teams.

Of the Dodgers five World Series wins, four of them had the final game on the road. Only 1963 ended at Dodger Stadium and that was during the day.

(old fogey alert)
Why back in my day (1983-87), UCLA students didn't get much worked up over sports either. They might get worked up a bit more now than they did 20 years ago. There wasn't a big pep rally/bonfire before the USC football game like there is now.

Also, UCLA's football games take place over 20 miles away from campus.

(/old fogey alert)

I have a coworker who can tell you about UCLA students burning Zenon Andrushyshyn in effigy though.

I likely misspelled the guy's name. I'm sure he is one of Marty's favorite UCLA players.

2006-03-29 18:45:41
262.   Gen3Blue
I think I'm beginning to figure out my nuerosis. I hate to trade prospects period.
But in the Dodger experience prospects are worthless. Our few superstars,say Piazza, Hershiser, Venezuela, Gagne were never in the top 50 prospects--please tell me I'm wrong. Could prospects be bull-shoot?
2006-03-29 18:45:48
263.   trainwreck
Thanks, I need some more bands to get into.
2006-03-29 18:46:28
264.   overkill94
255 I agree wholeheartedly about the grade inflation thing. I was able to breeze through high school with straight A's without studying more than an hour for any test and doing my homework in class. I had to work pretty hard in college because I was an engineer, but my poor study habits developed in high school were hard to overcome. It seems like kids who went to private schools were much better prepared since they had to work their butts off to get straight A's at their schools.
2006-03-29 18:46:43
265.   natepurcell
mulders will get something close to zito. 6-8 on the open makret for mulder seems incredibly low to me when you factor in teams are always looking for pitching.

i personally would go zito. He is just a horse on the mound with no significant injury history. he is also younger. by a couple of years.

2006-03-29 18:47:27
266.   natepurcell
the best band is Isis, they are my top 3 favorite bands ever. But i didnt mention them because i figured you already knew who they were.
2006-03-29 18:47:28
267.   GoBears
256. Has Dusty Baker gotten his fair share of blame for the chronic injuries to Prior and Wood? I remember people worrying out loud about those guys when Dusty overworked them a few years ago, but I can't figure out why that wasn't a firing offense.
2006-03-29 18:47:39
268.   Adam
255 It's not any different in the hard sciences.
2006-03-29 18:48:59
269.   natepurcell
Dillinger is the band I am dying to see live, along with, Sleepytime Gorillia Museum, Tomahawk, and Fantomas.

i saw dillinger this past october. they were pretty intense live. the singer is absolutely nuts and climbs up on speaker towers like a baboon. the drummer light his drum set on fire during the last song. the pyrotechnics were way cool

2006-03-29 18:49:44
270.   oldbear
There might be a perception out there that Mulder isnt good anymore. Obviously, he has declined quite a bit from what he once was.

Zito should get Pedro type of money I think.
But Mulder i see in the D-Lowe range.

2006-03-29 18:50:13
271.   Adam
258 As an A's fan, I have to say that it's painful watching Zito pitch. You just never know what you're going to get, and it always seems that he's walking a fine line. I just don't think he's worth that 12-15 million per season...but, that's purely subjective, on my part.
2006-03-29 18:51:08
272.   trainwreck
I might be going to the Knitting Factory to see Isis with Dalek.
2006-03-29 18:53:26
273.   trainwreck
I have been a big proponent for signing Zito, but if it is 12-15 million a year, it is just not worth it. Zito has already peaked and he is more of a solid number 2 or 3 then a number 1.
2006-03-29 18:55:19
274.   MartinBillingsley31
For what its worth zito has better stats than mulder.
hr/9 allmost identical
whip zito better 1.22 vs 1.30
k/9 zito better 7.03 vs 5.80
2006-03-29 18:56:42
275.   Gen3Blue
than. I like Zito >#3
2006-03-29 18:59:43
276.   natepurcell
mulders career gb/fb ratio is 1.97
zitos career gb/fb ratio is .87

now, does that make up some of the difference betwene their k rates?

2006-03-29 19:03:40
277.   trainwreck
Zito is durable, that is his biggest advantage over Mulder.
2006-03-29 19:07:42
278.   natepurcell
mcdonalds all american game on right now.

arizonas 5 star recruit is chase budinger and hes playing. hes 6'7 white guy with extreme hops and larry bird esque outside shot. hes going to be a stud!

2006-03-29 19:10:16
279.   thinkingblue
34.

The only descention into abyss was crafted by Mr. Paul DePodesta, and it gave us 71 and bleeping 91.

Also, please, it is a 1 year + OPTION. That is, if the dodgers feel he'd pull a Steve Finley in 08, they can choose not to sign him.

Plus, does it really matter with money when we are talking about an LA team? Should the second biggest media market really care about getting labor cheaper? C'mon, it doesn't matter that we pay Kent maybe 1 million or so extra, he has proven that he is worth it.

And he has played in the games no? I think his wrist is fine. Remember, he's actually hit better in this spring than last spring.

This is a great move, it lets us trade Izzy, gives us assurance for 07, and much more.

2006-03-29 19:11:04
280.   trainwreck
Is James Keefe on the West team?
2006-03-29 19:12:21
281.   Sam DC
Bowden Watch: The notes page at nationals.com has this striking quote from Jim Bowden, with no context or explanation what exactly he is talking about: "This Spring Training has been the most bizarre I have ever been a part of in my career. I have never been a part of anything like this. It has been the most un-fun. To me, it has been one nightmare after another. It's like I am working for the fire department and putting out fires every day. But I have been through springs like this before, and then the season starts, and you are in a pennant race all year. We are hoping that will happen here."

Just random as all get out, esp. as he would seem to have caused most of the bizareness himself (other than the WBC, I guess). And doesn't the middle line about having been through springs like this before sort of negate the part about this spring being the most bizarre ever? I'm just saying . . .

2006-03-29 19:13:49
282.   thinkingblue
53.

What possible stats can you give me that shows ANY indication that Kent will fall apart this year?

He has not declined at all the last couple of years, and will not fall apart. That opinion is pure emotion, and sour grapes over DePo and Miltion leaving.

2006-03-29 19:14:11
283.   natepurcell
yea keefe is.

funny story about keefe... i know him. he went to my HS.

2006-03-29 19:14:36
284.   Sam DC
278 "extreme hops" = "great jumper"? (yes, I'm old)
2006-03-29 19:15:22
285.   Bob Timmermann
Don't most fire departments put out fires every day?
2006-03-29 19:15:27
286.   CanuckDodger
I suppose it is legitimate to wonder if Kent is near a collapse, and to question the wisdom of the extension on that basis, but very early in the thread there were concerns expressed about what this deal says about our commitment to our prospects, and I have to say that those concerns are baseless. One might say the extension closes the door on Willy Aybar being considered for the job of regular second baseman in 2007, but really, did anybody believe that door was still open? I think it has been clear for a while now that the Dodgers don't consider Aybar anything more than a potential major league utility man, at least on an MLB team of the calibre the Dodgers want to be.

I believe the Dodgers view BOTH Tony Abreu and Blake DeWitt as potential major league regulars at second base, and Abreu won't be ready till 2008 and DeWitt won't be ready till 2009. So with the Dodgers never seriously entertaining Aybar as an option, and depending on what happens with the option year, the Kent extension either bridges a gap to 2008 (Abreu) or 2009 (DeWitt). Thus the Kent extension REASSURES me that the Dodgers are thinking ahead with our plans for prospects in mind. If Kent left after this year, and knowing Aybar was never going to get a chance, I have been worrying what sort of panic move Colletti might make to fill a hole. Signing Soriano to a long-term deal? Shudder. Trading for an established second baseman? That might not only block Abreu and DeWitt, we would have to give up prospects just to make the trade. Let Izturis play second? Frankly, I expect Izturis to be traded long before we get to 2007.

So the bottom line is that I like the Kent extension. I think it shows that we are planning on going with a prospect at second starting in 2008 or 2009, plus locking up an expensive vet for 2007 makes it easier for Colletti to justify going with cheap youth at some other position in 2007.

2006-03-29 19:16:31
287.   natepurcell
extreme hops= very high vertical leap. he came in 2nd in the dunk contest which will be showed right after this game.
2006-03-29 19:18:01
288.   GoBears
descention?

71-91: See worst run of injuries EVER. The 27 Yankees wouldn't have made the playoffs with those injuries. When are people going to stop blaming the GM for broken wrists on HBPs?

Yes, money matters. Even in LA. It's not LA's money - it's McCourt's. And it's not unlimited. Moreover, it now appears that he shortchanged DePodesta. Colletti's budget is much bigger.

Please, how does this sort of post help the conversation? There've been 250 posts, mostly about this question. Why not address the complex debate about opportunity costs, prospects, and the like, and not stop thinking after

1. Kent was excellent last year.
2. Money is no object.
3. Age doesn't matter.
4. Thereofre we should spend money on Kent.

I think a lot of us here think this is an OK move by Colletti, but worry that it might have costs beyond the mere price tag. Let us know WHY you disagree, not just THAT you disagree.

2006-03-29 19:18:06
289.   trainwreck
Is Keefe really that good?
2006-03-29 19:19:30
290.   natepurcell
Is Keefe really that good?

eh. depends on what you are expecting from him. He really needs to work on his mid range shots. He is a beast on the boards though. he could be a really good 4 for ucla.

2006-03-29 19:20:03
291.   trainwreck
What is his game like? That is probably the more important question.
2006-03-29 19:20:15
292.   Telemachos
279 As always, the anti-DePo folks utterly ignore the moves he made that made LA an NL Division champion.

On to other things:
- If Jeff Weaver can easily pull down $8.5 million/year, Mulder will get $10+ million on name/past performance recognition alone. No one will be able to get him for $6-8 million unless he has a major injury and his health is an unknown factor.

As to Derrick Lee -- is everyone convinced he is now and will continue to be a super-stud? I think he's good, but I need to be convinced last year wasn't a fluke year.

2006-03-29 19:20:30
293.   oldbear
Plus, does it really matter with money when we are talking about an LA team?

Yes it does. The Dodgers have a budget. If they pay Jeff Kent 11.5 mils bucks, its not likely they'll have enough to pay for Derrick Lee.

2006-03-29 19:21:24
294.   oldbear
What possible stats can you give me that shows ANY indication that Kent will fall apart this year?

Kent's birth certificate would be a good place to start.

2006-03-29 19:21:42
295.   the OZ
255 and others -

I've seen more excitement about UCLA sports from the 25-30 year-olds in my grad program than from undergrads this year, and our admissions are more competitive than theirs. I don't know if I agree with the "too smart to follow sports" theory.

There's an organized effort among undergrads on campus to make sports a bigger part of campus life. For example, there was a basketball season kickoff-type event held last fall (similar to a midnight madness, but during the afternoon) that was pretty sparsely attended. My friends and I had a great time, but there wasn't a real buzz around the event. With some effort and smart planning, it should be possible to translate a Final Four appearance (perhaps national championship?) into Duke-level student frenzy for next basketball season.

2006-03-29 19:24:17
296.   thinkingblue
288.

For all your injury talk, we were only second in the NL in man games lost, to the nationals, who won 10 more games than us.

I never said age doesn't matter, but Kent has proven that he is not on the decline.

I really don't see much of a downside, I think that spending this money on one player shows that we will again have money to spend this offseason.

It is only a 1 year extention, + an option, but we would only take the option if he has another great year, and we don't think our prospects are ready.

2006-03-29 19:25:32
297.   Adam
295 Maybe it's that the undergrads aren't smart enough, and they actually have to study. (joking)
2006-03-29 19:26:32
298.   thinkingblue
294.

Thats about the only arguement you can come up with. And it is a pretty weak one at that. Kent still has his bat speed.

2006-03-29 19:28:07
299.   natepurcell
What is his game like? That is probably the more important question.

when i was a senior, he was only a sophmore and he didnt have carry the scoring load because we had a loaded team that year. Keefe can do the dirty work for a team. Great defender, great shot blocker, great rebounder. He can finish around the basket but his jump shot mid range extended requires work.

hes a good compliment player to Affalo and farmar.

2006-03-29 19:29:42
300.   Adam
299 He sounds like a perfect fit in the Howland system.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-03-29 19:29:47
301.   natepurcell
Thats about the only arguement you can come up with. And it is a pretty weak one at that. Kent still has his bat speed.

i dont know if you can say that with full confidence. he just had wrist surgery this offseason and we dont know how much of a toll that takes on his game. Thats another reason why i wish this extension was done midseason and not now. better to wait a little bit more and make sure his wrist is okay and it can handle a full season.

2006-03-29 19:31:29
302.   the OZ
7-foot high school basketball superstud and 2007 NBA #1 Lottery pick Greg Oden on the McDonald's All-American week in San Diego:

"Sea World was fun. I saw a sea lion that was almost as big as me."

2006-03-29 19:33:00
303.   GoBears
Thus the Kent extension REASSURES me that the Dodgers are thinking ahead with our plans for prospects in mind. If Kent left after this year, and knowing Aybar was never going to get a chance, I have been worrying what sort of panic move Colletti might make to fill a hole.

Really good point.

2006-03-29 19:33:08
304.   D4P
Kent still has his bat speed.

How fast is his speed these days? I haven't seen any reported times.

2006-03-29 19:33:38
305.   trainwreck
Awesome Keefe misses an open dunk.
2006-03-29 19:33:42
306.   natepurcell
hahaha. keefe misses dunk and next possesion gets stuffed.
2006-03-29 19:35:17
307.   natepurcell
wow he got rejected again.
2006-03-29 19:35:37
308.   trainwreck
I know this is a stereotype, but why do we have to get the un-athletic white guy?
2006-03-29 19:37:46
309.   natepurcell
if it makes it any better, he is a pretty smart player.
2006-03-29 19:38:35
310.   GoBears
For all your injury talk, we were only second in the NL in man games lost, to the nationals, who won 10 more games than us.

Didn't know that, but it's not the relevant measure, either. The proper measure is not man-games lost, but VORP lost (or some other measure of value). It's not just how many guys get hurt for how long, but which ones. The Dodgers lost every starter for extended time except Kent (he missed a few games, but not that many) Choi (who missed time because he was benched) and Phillips (who should have missed time). They also were without starters (Perez, Alvarez, Penny) and relievers (Gagne, Dessens, Wunsch).

2006-03-29 19:38:37
311.   D4P
if it makes it any better, he is a pretty smart player.

Smarter than Alex Cora?

2006-03-29 19:39:18
312.   natepurcell
keefe looks the same. he needs to get biggger.
2006-03-29 19:41:00
313.   natepurcell
oh yea we use to tease him about his great toothpaste family.
2006-03-29 19:41:23
314.   trainwreck
He broke both his arms trying to dunk and missed the entire season. Are you sure he is a smart player? haha
2006-03-29 19:42:38
315.   GoBears
Is Keefe any relation to Adam Keefe, who played for Jon's boys lo these many years ago? I wouldn't think that Adam would be old enough to have a kid graduating HS, but they could be cousins or brothers who are pretty far apart...

Adam Keefe was a pretty darn good player at the college level, but didn't really have a pro game. Hung around a while, but never really "made it."

2006-03-29 19:43:51
316.   trainwreck
A guy scored 21 points in 75 seconds? That is ridiculous.
2006-03-29 19:44:51
317.   trainwreck
Evidently, Nate's team got an athletic white guy.
2006-03-29 19:45:19
318.   the OZ
299 300 I've heard him describede as an Mbah a Moute-type player.

But white, and not from Cameroon.

2006-03-29 19:49:04
319.   thinkingblue
301.

He has slugged at a good rate this spring, and when he hit a home run, the commentators remarked that his wrist looked fine there.

Have you seen any of the games? His bat speed has looked fine, besides, he's a veteran who knows how to get ready for a season. He hasn't failed yet. So great hitter, until proven Finley.

2006-03-29 19:49:48
320.   natepurcell
trainwreck, watch the dunk contest right after this game. budinger shows off his skillz.
2006-03-29 19:51:21
321.   thinkingblue
304.

Have you watched any of the games on Kcal 9?

2006-03-29 19:53:06
322.   natepurcell
ahh darrel arthur needs to comitt to arizona. hes still undecided, narrowing his choices down to 3- arizona, texas, kansas.
2006-03-29 19:53:54
323.   natepurcell
yea ive seen some of the games on kcal 9.

keefe looks atheletically outmatched on the court with the other mcdonalds all americans.

2006-03-29 19:55:47
324.   thinkingblue
323.

Well, how has Kent looked to you? To me, he still has his bat speed.

2006-03-29 19:58:09
325.   natepurcell
i like oden's personality. he seems like a likeable guy.
2006-03-29 19:59:16
326.   natepurcell
i cant really judge off the 7 or so ABs i saw. and i dont really pay attention unless its a prospect batting or pitching.
2006-03-29 19:59:46
327.   trainwreck
Yeah, Oden seems really down to Earth, in that way he reminds me of Dwight Howard.

If Arthur does sign with Arizona, hopefully Lute will eventually kick him off the team : )

2006-03-29 20:01:37
328.   thinkingblue
326.

Too bad, there's a really good major league team you're missing.

2006-03-29 20:08:08
329.   natepurcell
arthur
budinger
marcus williams
jawann Mcclellan
shakur

thats national championship caliber lineup right there.

2006-03-29 20:09:02
330.   natepurcell
re 328

its just spring training. going a littl overboard there i think.

2006-03-29 20:11:22
331.   natepurcell
holy hell, did you just see that budinger dunk. wow....
2006-03-29 20:12:21
332.   trainwreck
Arthur apparently broke the rim dunking during the dunk contest. If he signs with Arizona they will certainly be able to dunk on people.
2006-03-29 20:17:06
333.   Jon Weisman
The Orioles released Geronimo Gil. At last, we can now completely evaluate the Mike Trombley for Gil and Kris Foster trade.
2006-03-29 20:17:24
334.   D4P
Nate - Our friend Steve could use your help over at FGL.
2006-03-29 20:22:25
335.   bigcpa
I just got a chuckle out of this line from Dayn Perry's latest re: McGwire's HOF candidacy:

"Also, who's to say what will come to light between now and when ballots are mailed out later this year?"

2006-03-29 20:25:23
336.   Jon Weisman
334 - Ah. Mystery solved.
2006-03-29 20:27:26
337.   D4P
336
You didn't hear that from me. My lips (and fingertips) are sealed.

BTW: I take it there has been no reconciliation to this point...

2006-03-29 20:27:37
338.   natepurcell
what was the mystery?
2006-03-29 20:30:58
339.   trainwreck
Clearly I have missed something important that went on here.
2006-03-29 20:33:44
340.   Jon Weisman
337 - I sent Steve an e-mail before the final blowup, asking him to bear with me while I handled the problems in here. The subject heading was, "I know I look stupid ..." and it ended with "thanks for not being too hard on me." He didn't respond, and it occurs to me now that I might have a wrong e-mail address for him and he didn't get it. I don't know.

In any event, I have said in the comments twice that he's welcome back. He has an open invitation. I just wanted him to take a breather because I felt he was taunting me. But I can completely understand if he doesn't want to come back. Frankly, I'll miss his contributions, but I can understand his impatience with the situation.

But I have a philosophy here and I'm not ready to give up on it. It may be proven untenable. But for now, I'm not ready to kick out people just for having opinions I don't like.

However, as my dealings with Steve and Bluetahoe indicate, I will be getting less tolerant of people who violate the rules.

2006-03-29 20:34:17
341.   Art H Tracy
I do like the phrase "until proven Finley."
2006-03-29 20:37:38
342.   trainwreck
Great pass by Budinger. If this guy can shoot hes going to be a star.
2006-03-29 20:38:24
343.   D4P
340
I'm tempted to try my hand(s) at mediation, but I guess that's really not my place. I just don't like to see this kind of thing happen.
2006-03-29 20:40:09
344.   natepurcell
budingers supposely best attribute is his shooting. I knew he can shoot, i didnt know he could do what he has been showing.

wow i am super excited about next year now.

2006-03-29 20:42:11
345.   trainwreck
I hope Mbah a Moute grows a couple of inches, we need him to defend this guy haha.

If he could grow a couple inches by Saturday it would help tremendously too.

2006-03-29 20:46:30
346.   Jon Weisman
343 - Is there anything to mediate? From what I saw before the Hatch was shut, he seemed happy.

There's something very soap opera about this discussion. And there's something very Lost about the inhabitants of this Dodger Thoughts island. The original bunch, the back half of the plane whom we want to trust but we're not quite sure about. Is that stranger good or one of the Others?

2006-03-29 20:48:44
347.   Marty
Henry is definitely an "Other"
2006-03-29 20:49:26
348.   trainwreck
Wow, Budinger a three with some guy all over him. Uggh... one and done please!
2006-03-29 20:49:42
349.   natepurcell
please God, dont let budinger be one and done.
2006-03-29 20:50:38
350.   Bob Timmermann
347

Is that:
a) speculation
b) a joke
c) info from someone on the East Coast?

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-03-29 20:52:05
351.   D4P
346
Maybe there's no animosity, but the separation is itself regrettable.

I don't watch Lost, but (in other TV news) I see that Mitch Hurwitz has evidently decided that he doesn't have the creative energy to continue with AD. From what I read, Showtime had agreed to pick up the show, but Hurwitz decided that he's done.

Back to the DT drama: our dearly departed friend is fashioning himself into a Phantom-of-the-Opera like character, confining himself to the dark catacombs of his blog.

2006-03-29 20:57:28
352.   trainwreck
Hurwitz did hint at the possibility for Arrested Development the movie.
2006-03-29 20:57:42
353.   natepurcell
budinger and durant have connected for like 5 baskets.
2006-03-29 20:57:46
354.   Jon Weisman
351 - It's a very labor-intensive show. It's too bad, but I can understand.
2006-03-29 21:01:38
355.   D4P
354
I try to tell myself that it's better to go out on top than to stick around too long, leaving when the show has declined in quality.

But myself responds that he is willing to take that risk if it means getting to watch more of GOB and George Michael. And Franklin.

2006-03-29 21:02:26
356.   trainwreck
Wow. 5'11" guy throwing it off the backboard and throwing it down with his left hand.
2006-03-29 21:02:28
357.   natepurcell
sherron collins is a ballhog!
2006-03-29 21:02:57
358.   Marty
350 A. I don't get the east coast feed. I'm pausing right now to build up some time so I can fast-forward through the commercials.
2006-03-29 21:04:50
359.   Jon Weisman
Michael Cera (George Michael) is on Veronica Mars right now.
2006-03-29 21:08:33
360.   D4P
359
I've pretty much decided that I won't be watching any AD cast members in any subsequent roles.
2006-03-29 21:09:54
361.   trainwreck
Alia Shawkat (Maeby) is also in this episode of Veronice Mars. I saw her in the commercial.
2006-03-29 21:12:07
362.   Jon Weisman
361 - Yep - there she is. They're both playing college students. They're all grows up.
2006-03-29 21:12:31
363.   trainwreck
This Hightower girl has a funky lefty shooting technique. I love those haha. Michael Redd has my favorite shot.
2006-03-29 21:13:02
364.   Bob Timmermann
358

Great minds think alike.

I'm watching "The Closer" right now.

Kyra Sedgwick does not resemble Eric Gagne very much.

2006-03-29 21:13:27
365.   trainwreck
I think Maeby plays a rape victim, according to the commercial and then shaves her head. Certainly a different feel from AD.
2006-03-29 21:14:35
366.   trainwreck
Haha at least George Michael is once again playing a dorky guy.
2006-03-29 21:15:25
367.   Jon Weisman
365 - Okay - no giving away plot details of a show I'm watching right now!
2006-03-29 21:15:49
368.   Jon Weisman
(Although I'll admit, they've been telegraphing it.)
2006-03-29 21:16:48
369.   trainwreck
It was in the commercial lol. I thought it was supposed to be apparent. I am sorry.
2006-03-29 21:18:34
370.   Jon Weisman
It's cool. I just go out of my way to avoid commercials, teasers, descriptions of any show I watch. No scenes from next week, nothing.

No Lost talk until probably 11 o'clock, probably.

2006-03-29 21:19:11
371.   trainwreck
A 2 person three point contest is not very exciting.
2006-03-29 21:20:32
372.   overkill94
Wow, Budinger did look quite good, especially on that three-pointer toward the end of the game; he has a really quick release. He doesn't seem to have the personality of a one and done type, but he definitely has the skill and polish to pull it off.

Don't forget about Radenovich for next year either, he has definitely taken a step forward in the second half of this year.

Yes, I went to UCLA but cheer for Arizona basketball, sue me (though you're mistaken if you think I'm not enjoying the Bruins' current run).

2006-03-29 21:22:12
373.   Xeifrank
Sorry I missed all the TV/Movie chat this evening. :) I'm still holding out for a "lucky" update number 8 from Jon today. Can't wait for the "real" season to start. Well, actually I can't wait for the final four, then after that I will be ready for some baseball. vr, Xei
2006-03-29 21:22:38
374.   trainwreck
372-
If I went to USC I would still cheer for UCLA. Of course, that would not make me very popular at the school. I remember we played UCLA women in volleyball or something important and I cheered for UCLA haha.
2006-03-29 21:22:53
375.   Jon Weisman
More surprising contract extension from today: Jeff Kent with the Dodgers, or Paula Abdul with American Idol?
2006-03-29 21:25:12
376.   D4P
When asked by the American Idol producers if she would be willing to sign a contract extension, Paula responded simply, "I'm forever your girl."
2006-03-29 21:27:09
377.   trainwreck
I swear every female prospect goes to one of seven colleges: Duke, UNC, Tennessee, UCONN, LSU, Baylor, or Stanford.

By the way, Utah made the Elite 8 has a 5 seed and that was the highest seed to ever make the elite 8. People complain about MLB being the haves and the have nots.

2006-03-29 21:32:09
378.   natepurcell
dunk contest time!
2006-03-29 21:45:48
379.   trainwreck
Budinger looks like Jake Busey with curly hair haha.
2006-03-29 21:47:34
380.   natepurcell
budinger is going to the best player from arizona EVER
2006-03-29 21:47:48
381.   trainwreck
To borrow a line from Ralph Lawler.

Oh me! Oh my!

2006-03-29 21:50:15
382.   natepurcell
the best thing is that this is ginger doing this. wow.
2006-03-29 21:50:33
383.   natepurcell
this is a
2006-03-29 21:53:03
384.   trainwreck
I learned from South Park that gingers are evil. Ewww gross!
2006-03-29 21:55:19
385.   trainwreck
Budinger's dunk was way harder.
2006-03-29 21:57:10
386.   trainwreck
East coast bias! Even in the dunk contest haha
2006-03-29 22:00:37
387.   natepurcell
ah my friend, who went to the dunk contest on monday told me that it took budinger 3 times to make that last dunk. so they edited out the second attempt.

he said if he made it in two, it would have been a 60.

2006-03-29 22:02:42
388.   trainwreck
That is still a ridiculously hard dunk, especially if you have long legs like him.

Cartman in San Francisco on South Park tonight. This is going to be good.

2006-03-29 22:22:06
389.   natepurcell
hahaha, day after tomorrow parody.
2006-03-29 22:23:48
390.   trainwreck
This might be the most liberal bashing South Park has ever done and that is saying a lot haha.
2006-03-29 22:51:28
391.   Jon Weisman
"Lost" talk is now welcome. Very tense episode for the most part.
2006-03-29 22:54:27
392.   trainwreck
From Gurnick's article on Gagne:

Pitching Wednesday on back-to-back days for the first time, Gagne struck out two in a scoreless inning, although most of his fastballs didn't reach 90 mph on the Dodgers' generous radar gun.

Uh oh. At least he struck out two guys, but there is a good chance they were minor leaguers anyways.

2006-03-29 23:07:21
393.   King of the Hobos
392 Not quite minor leaguers. He struck out Gigantor and Damian Jackson according to the Gameday at the top of this thread. Of course, the pitcher and a guy who hits like a pitcher are essentially the equivalent of minor leaguers, if not worse than them
2006-03-29 23:28:24
394.   Bob Timmermann
The 2006 Dodgers new slogan:

Malum consilium quod mutari non potest

2006-03-29 23:42:29
395.   das411
388 , 390 - And how is the smug in LA today? :)

Update on the girl I was trying to bug with all of the t-shirts: "I decided which baseball team I like...the Pirates!"

...do I tell her?

2006-03-30 00:54:49
396.   Eric L
Anyone see this news?

http://tinyurl.com/qgyav

I wonder what the real hangup is on the deal? It doesn't seem like a wise idea to not have the Angels on TV when you are trying to take over the market.

2006-03-30 01:01:22
397.   jeepseats
Apparently they're not finished negotiating yet, but it won't bother me if the Angels only get a 1/3 of their games televised.
2006-03-30 01:04:33
398.   jeepseats
Rosenthal has an interesting article that may raise the ire of a few people here:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5452478

2006-03-30 01:06:54
399.   jeepseats
...and Simers has apparently gone from Mr. Hyde to Dr. Jekyll?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-simers30mar30,1,2237738.column?coll=la-headlines-sports-mlb-dodger

2006-03-30 01:15:19
400.   GoBears
Four Hundred
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-03-30 01:16:34
401.   GoBears
You can't do it, jeepseats. You can't fool me into reading Rosenthal or Simers by making it appear as though it might be interesting. I'm too wily for that.
2006-03-30 01:44:36
402.   LAT
Ugh. Mustard, salmon, robin egg blue and sea foam. Apparently Jamie has been reading the bottom of her manicurist's nail polish bottles.

Please Frank and Jamie, its been so nice not hearing from you for the last three months don't ruin it now by speaking.

2006-03-30 01:45:18
403.   Eric L
401 The article's title is "Small ball is yielding big results". That should be enough for you to stay away from the article.

The Yankees were better when they did the little things right. Teams that don't beat themselves usually win. Big slugging and mediocre pitching doesn't equal post-season success. The Red Sox didn't win in '04 until they got better defensively. Small ball is a time honored tradition (where this idea came from, I don' know).

The article vaguely hits at run prevention but doesn't really complete the thought. Nowhere in the article (you can say it hints at it I guess) does it say that teams who score more runs than they allow generally win.

2006-03-30 07:22:15
404.   DXMachina
391. Did you notice that the woman Locke did the house inspection for is Sayid's love from Iraq?
2006-03-30 07:28:36
405.   Vishal
[188] i always thought of the H in IMHO to mean "honest", not "humble". it's less annoying that way :)

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