So Jon gets to lead the good life where every seat comes with an ivory-handled back scratcher and a complimentary factotum to bring him drinks.

Some guys get all the breaks in life.

I was on the couch with my cat watching with Vin calling the action, although sometimes I switched over to KCOP.

My cup of yogurt during the game was quite tasty.

The interest in Lance Carter seems fairly inexplicable, but I guess one year he got a bunch of saves and somehow made an all-star team.

If this has already been hashed over, I apologize, but does anyone get why Broxton pitched the last two innings yesterday? If you don't give innings like that to Odalis, with a 7-0 lead, when does he pitch at all? And is Carter or Hamulack also not trusted with 7-0 leads?

I say right now that Broxton probably won't be available tonight, and, honestly, he is maybe our best reliever right now. So if the Dodgers blow a close game, you know one place to look for blame.

But staying positive...with Saito, Baez, Broxton and hopefully Gagne on the way, a once dismal pen is looking much brighter. Maybe Kuo will get re-called and find the strike zone to then give us a solid lefty. What a pen!

what do you do with two janitors?

How does Hamulack avoid inclusion in the dustpan club?

3 - I deliberated for a couple minutes. I decided that because Hamulack at least has a strikeout pitch, and has thrown three, count 'em, three scoreless innings in a row, I'd cut him a break.

2 - Devil's Advocate: Broxton had thrown only 30 pitches since May 11, then threw only 10 pitches in the eighth inning Sunday. So he wasn't near tired. He finished with 24 pitches in the game and 40 pitches for the weekend. I bet he could throw an inning tonight if need be.

4 - Ah, the ol' "what have you done for me lately?".

If that's the case, Carter and Odalis have only given up one run each for LA since May 3rd. :-)

1 - not unless you count Aeron chairs as "ivory". And while you may get your own factotum, you also have to pay said factotum, which, considering the pricey fare, is not an inconsiderable sum.

But I don't want to sound like I'm complaining; they were very attentive, and just great to work with. Helen's already talking about "next time"... heh. And of course, you're welcome, Jon.

Fortunes rise and fall, and heaven help the folks who think they have everything figured out.

How true. Many people, including me, forget that too often.

Let's put it this way:

Odalis is the broom and dustpan janitor. The "dry" janitor if you will.

Carter is the mop and bucket guy. The " some drunk just had an accident all over the bathroom floor" janitor.

[Jon, thinking]: "Hmmm . . . "you're welcome, Jon" like a response to thank you or "you're welcome, Jon" like I I'm welcome to come again when Helen gets "next time" worked out."

*

In DC news, I can't find the link right now, but I read over the weekend that the Nationals have offered to trade Livan Hernandez to the Mets for Milledge. Livan has next year at $7 million on his contract, pitched poorly to start the year but well his last two outs (against the woeful Cubs and Orioles).

Frank Robinson was granted an honorary degree from GW.

Dodgers are in town starting friday and wouldn't you know my mom decides to visit, likely scuttling my chances of getting to RFK. Grrrr. I mean, love you mom.

That's easy Sam. Take her to the game.

We need to find a way ship Odalis off. When Gagne comes back we need to go to an 11 man staff that does not include Hammy or Carter.

Starters - Tomko, Lowe, Penny, Sele, Seo.
Bullpen - Gagne, JBrox, Saito, Baez, Beimel, Carrara.

That bullpen immediately becomes the BEST in the league. We'll have the best closer in the league. I beleive Joe Beimel has established himself as the best left handed specialist in the league. We'll have 3 guys that can all get the job done in the 8th in Broxy, Saito, and Baez. Carrara can pitch in the blowouts without worries. Carrara can finish off a 5 run lead in the 9th.

11 What's Gio doing in there? Get him out!

11

lets not jump to conclusions. names and histories dont make a bullpen the best in the league, production does. gagne isn't throwing 97 mph anymore, and itll take time for him to adjust to that. I still think he will be effective, considering his bread and butter is the off speed stuff, however it'll take innings and time to get to that point. beimel the best in the league? the guy is showing us good things, but lets wait it out and make the guy prove it first. And Gio? Are we forgetting he was cut from the pirates, of all clubs? maybe he has something left, maybe he doesnt..but to claim that at this point of his career he is effective, more so than say a hamulack...

9, 10 - I'm sure they'll have pink tote bags for every female over the age of ... well, you can have one, too, Sam.

13 - roster decisions made by the Pirates prove nothing, although you could argue that failure is a more likely outcome. I tend to think he's done, but IIRC he's pitched well so far for Vegas, an always-challenging environment.

Gio is a known quantity. I trust him to hold a 5 run lead in the 9th. He was LIGHTS OUT for us the last month and a half or so of last season. I don't think he was released by Pittsburgh. He was released from his minor league contract meaning he was given permission to leave.

1

I agree with Bob pic's like that make little people like me jealous ;o)

4 - wasn't Broxton a starter in the minors, anyway? And isn't the long-term plan for him still to become a starter in the Show?

Gio is a known quality all right. Known to be done. He's Carteresque.

Make that quantity

News of Note: On August 24, 2003, Kevin Brown and the Dodgers faced Tom Glavine and the Mets. The first five batters in the Dodgers order all went hitless: Rickey Henderson, Paul LoDuca, Shawn Green, Fred McGriff, and Adrian Beltre. The Mets won, 2-1.

retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B08240LAN2003.htm

In losing that game, the Dodgers also lost their MLB Heavyweight crown (see Catfish Stew sidebar), and have not had a single chance at holding the title in the 2+ seasons since then.

catfishstew.baseballtoaster.com/archives/313860.html

Tonight, at long last, the Dodgers can grab h old of that revered title once again, when they face the current heavyweight champs, the Colorado Rockies.

21 - At long last!

That bullpen immediately becomes the BEST in the league. We'll have the best closer in the league. I beleive Joe Beimel has established himself as the best left handed specialist in the league.

Here's the deal: It's fine to come to conclusions such as those above. And it's even fine to do so based on subjective judgments (as opposed to, say, meaningful performance data), but back them up! Show your work. How is that you've reached the conclusion that Beimel has established himself as the best lefty specialist (let's assume that's a meaningful category of pitcher)? Who is in the comparison set? Do you watch games not involving the Dodgers? If you're going on subjective evidence, you'd better be watching every team, or how could you know? If you're basing such a conclusion on statistics, tell us what statistics back this up. How would the data have to look to show that you're wrong (I'm not saying you ARE wrong - just wondering about the standards of evidence).

For example, for Baez, you MUST be relying on something other than this year's performance, which has been mediocre at best. And that's fine too - his established career stats are likely much more meaningful than this year's small sample. But then you can't argue that small samples are meaningless for Baez, but meaninful for, say, Beimel.

So, the optimist in me would love to endorse your conclusions. But the skeptic in me wants to see the evidence before I do so.

Cliff at Bronx Banter says the Yankees are looking at signing Jason Romano!

I beleive Joe Beimel has established himself as the best left handed specialist in the league.

GoBears, it's faith-based analysis.

Let's say that we ignore everything we know about perhiprials and about Beimel's history and just look at his ERA. Even then, he isn't the best left handed specialist in baseball. The first name that came to mind when thinking of LOOGYs was Mike Myers, let's see how he's doing:

ERA: 0.96

Hmmm, that's doesn't work. How about if we just keep it in the NL:

Chuck James: 2.38
Pedro Feliciano: 0.71
40 Year Old Rheal Cormier: 0.64

This was just from the first three teams I looked at. By no possible measure is Beimel the best lefty specialist in the NL.

The heavyweight champion idea isn't new. That's how baseball determined its "champion" until the National Association in 1871. The top teams would issue "challenge matches" to play for the "whip pennant."

The 1869 Cincinnati team went undefeated playing as the first openly all-professional baseball team. But they never claimed the pennant because they never played the team that owned it (which was a Brooklyn team). They opted to make a West Coast tour to make more money.

25 - I'd go with you if it was "I believe Joe Beimel is the best LOOGY in the league." (Not that I do believe that, but for the sake of argument...)

I won't go with "I believe he has established himself as the best LOOGY".

How in the world can anyone argue he's established himself? Who has he gotten out when I wasn't looking?

To believe he's the best, that's fine. But believing he's established himself is opening yourself up for criticism.

Joe Beimel is BETTER than Tom Martin.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than Ray King.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than Terry Mulholland.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than Steve Kline.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than any lefty San Diego has.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than Kent Mercker.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than Scott Eyre.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than anyone St. Louis has..
Joe Beimel is BETTER anyone Milwaukee has.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than Damaso Marte.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than Mike Gallo.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than Pedro Feliciano.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than anyone Philadelphia has.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than McKay McBride.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than Mike Stanton.
Joe Beimel is BETTER than anyone Florida would have..

25. Yeah, good point. If you know it, you don't need to believe it. And vice versa. Just ask Stephen Colbert.

[rant] I gotta tell you though, it's no joke any more when trying to teach college students. It's amazing how many have not learned the distinction between beliefs and facts.

(Note: I'm not directing any of this at bluetahoe - this is a tangential rant.)

Forget questions about WHICH beliefs and WHICH facts - just the idea that the two are different is apparently too much for primary and secondary education these days. Apparently, if you really believe something, then that's just as valid as if it were actually true - because the most important thing isn't knowledge, it's a feeling of self-worth.

And we wonder why American education (and most obviously in California) is circling the bowl...

[/rant]

29 Typing in capitals doesn't make things true. Philadelphia has Rheal Cormier, so at least one of those is false.

29 OK, now you've told us the comparison set. On what basis do you conclude that Beimel is better than any of those guys, let alone all of them? Again, I'm not saying you're wrong - just that you need to explain your reasoning, not simply assert your conclusion.

San Diego's lefty reliever has a name: Alan Embree.

St. Louis presently has two lefties in the pen in Tyler Johnson and Randy Flores.

31. Now, if Joe Morgan or Jim Tracy or Harold Reynolds or [insert name here] had said this stuff, THAT would make it true, because they played the game.

32. He's been LIGHTS OUT. Great ERA. Inherited runners don't score. He's got a win and a save. When he pitches the Dodgers win. Add to that he's another 'no name' discovered by Midas.

I don't think anyone thought Brett Tomko was going to be very good, let alone GREAT. My Boy Midas isn't perfect but you've got to trust his moves. The man knows what he's doing.

33. You just mentioned 3 names of pitchers who I don't think are better than Beimel. Alan Embree. I should have remembered him. He recently gave up a walk off to Shawn Green. LOL.

33. You just mentioned 3 names of pitchers who I don't think are better than Beimel. Alan Embree. I should have remembered him. He recently gave up a walk off to Shawn Green. LOL.

Is this a good argument?

Herman Li is the best guitarist in the world because he ROCKS harder than anyone else.

Because, that's basically what you're argument is. I think I'm going to take a break now.

After watching Grady's usage of the bullpen, he appears to not believe in the standard bring a LH reliever to face a LH batter approach. If anything, he is more likely to be someone who uses a hot guy until he can't use him anymore.

Right now, Beimel, Baez and Saito are his guys when the game is on the line. Broxton is someone he will use in a no pressure situation. Hamulack and Carter are both blowout guys.

Grady also believes (small sample) if the guy is effective (low pitch count) he has no problem sending him out for another inning.

If Gagne is ready next week, my hunch is that Carter should look into some summer housing in Vegas and once Kuo or Miller show that can keep their walk totals (Kuo) or be able to pitch on shorter turnaround times (Miller), Hamulack will soon join him.

As for the starters, only Lowe, Penny and Tomko are settled, somewhere between Sele, Seo, Perez and Billingsley, the Dodgers will need to find their other 2 starters.

Let's assume that Chad is untouchable, don't think the Mets wouldn't want Seo back to fill in their back end of their rotation. Sele is more likely to be a spot starter, long man candidate and Perez could be a tradeable asset if the Dodgers agree to either take on someone with a similar salary or agree to cover some of his contract.

Personally, the best case would be for Odalis and Chad to makeup the starting 5 because I think they are the best pitchers of the group, Sele has limited value because of his age and Seo, while tradeable, won't get you much and his salary makes him a pretty good asset

He's been LIGHTS OUT.

Defined how?

Great ERA.

What is it? Really, if you want people to be persuaded by your arguments, don't make them do the work of looking up the data. That's just rude (and unlikely to work).

Inherited runners don't score.

Data? You might be right, but show me.

He's got a win and a save.

So what? How are those measures of quality? Especially in comparison to other pitchers?

When he pitches the Dodgers win.

Again, so what? Unless you're asserting that he's the marginal reason they win, that they'd lose were anyone else to pitch those innings. That might be true, but convince me -- don't just expect me to swallow it.

Add to that he's another 'no name' discovered by Midas.

If this is true (and by Midas, I gather you mean Colletti), then it says something about Colletti, but nothing new about Beimel. Unless you claim that one piece of evidence that Beimel is as good as you say is that Colletti would not have picked him up otherwise. IOW, Colletti is Midas because he finds guys like Beimel, and Beimel is the best lefty specialist in the league because he was picked up by Colletti. That's circular.

Look, I hope you realize that I'm actually trying to take your conclusions seriously, but I'm asking for more than just bald assertions. Persuade me, don't bully me. If I really thought that the notion that Beimel and the Dodger 'pen are good were completely preposterous, I wouldn't have wasted the time to respond. I'm willing to be persuaded, but not if the "argument" is "because I said so!"

If Kelly Wunsch could pitch, he would be the only one in recent Dodger history who I would call a true LOOGY, every other LHP mentioned is just someone who throws from that side.

Beimel has done well this year but his career LH BA against is .283, so while he made Barry look bad, do you want him to pitch to him in late inning situation in September.

I think Ned and Grady want the best 6 pitchers in the bullpen, Gagne, Baez and Saito are the only ones that can count on being there, Broxton will stay unless he just doesn't get enough opportunities, maybe 2 out of these 4 (Beimel, Hamulack, Miller and Kuo) can also get ready to move chairs in the bullpen. If Broxton goes down, take your pick between Sele, Seo, or Osoria being the other guy.

39 - But I believe Tom Morrello has established himself as the hardest ROCKING guitarist.

Beimel has a WHIP of 0.90.

His BAA is .204.

The way he pitches it doesn't surprise me that he may have more success against righthanders. His change up is FILTHY.

Only once has Beimel pitched kind of bad in a close game. And that was in Colorado. If not for Robles' error it would have been an outing of o.2 IP, 2 hits, and 1 run.

Beimel has been THE MAN, otherwise, when the game has been close.

In his 1st outings in tight games at Az he went 2.1 scoreless.

Against Milwaukee he came in with 1 out and runners on 1st and 3rd and got the GIDP.

He went 2.2 and 2.0 SOLID innings in SF.

When the games close Joe's THE MAN. I mean, c'mon. Anyone that watches the games knows this.

30. Add DVD players in cars to the list. My younger daughter (5th grade) is studying fact v. opinion. While running errands on Fri. we were taking turns testing each other. After 15 mins in traffic she had it nailed. Put a DVD player in the car and that all goes away.

44-

I think you're getting a LITTLE to excited over Beimel. The guy has only pitched 13.1 innings this year wtih a 2.70 ERA. That's not stellar. He's given up two HR in those 13 innings and only struck out four. Not to mention in 2001-2003 when he pitched a good amount of innings his ERAs were: 5.23, 4.64, 5.05

Maybe we should wait till Beimel throws more innings before annointing him the best lefty pen guy in the league because statistically he's not the best.

It's time for a Victoria Day matinee from Rogers Centre as the D-Rays are taking on the Blue Jays, who must be glad to get away from Denver.

44

Do you guys from dodgers.com ever look at career stats?
Here is beimel's career stats in 275.2 innings.
10.15 h/9 0.98 hr/9 4.34 w/9 5.16 k/9 1.61 whip

The only thing i see decent there is hr/9.

Now i don't know if beimel has added a pitch since last season, if he did it could have the same effect as when sanchez added a changeup.
Anyone have any info on if beimel has added a pitch?

48 - What about the fact that he only managed to appear in 7 games for Tampa Bay last year? Guess they didn't need him, what with all the innings Carter pitched for them.

LIGHTS OUT, indeed.

48. I'm familiar with his career stats.

I also know what I've seen of him this year. He looks GREAT. I have complete confidence in him. I don't know about you, but I actually watch the games on TV. I don't need to look at a stat sheet to know who's getting the job done and who isn't.

30 In regards to fact vs. opinion, the English language doesn't really help us much here. It is one of the cases where, as a bilingual person, I find our otherwise wonderful language quite lacking.

I can say "I believe Joe Beimel is the best LOOGY in the NL", and it would be unclear whether I was either:
a) stating my opinion, or
b) stating a fact, but I am uncertain I have my facts correct.

The Swedish language has two distinct words (tycka and tro) for these two cases, and a native Swedish speaker would never, ever mix them up.

"Tycka" is used when your opinion effects the truth of the statement. If I say "I believe Eric Gagne is ugly", whether or not Eric Gagne is ugly depends on whether I believe he is ugly or not.

"Tro" is used when the truth of your statement is independent of your belief. When you say "I believe 2+2=4", whether 2+2 equals is true or not does not depend on whether you believe it or not.

English speakers spend a lot of time arguing over things like this, when if we just had the right words to express ourselves, we could just move on to other things.

If bluetahoe says "I tycker Joe Beimel is the best LOOGY in the NL", nobody pesters him to back up his statement with facts, because it's clear he's just stating his opinion, and that's fine.

48 - "you guys from dodgers.com" is not a constructive comment. It serves no purpose, and helps set up an Us vs. Them circumstance that can only help prevent people from reasoning with each other.

50 - "I don't know about you, but I actually watch the games on TV. I don't need to look at a stat sheet to know who's getting the job done and who isn't. "

Also not a constructive comment. It's silly to even suggest that you're the only guy watching games. And since you use stats to justify your own arguments, your second sentence is both nonsensical and false.

48. Aren't you the guy always ragging on Kenny Lofton? Did you look at Kenny's career stats? Did you look at Kenny's stats from last season? LOL.

"Tycker" is the best word I've learned in a long time, I tycker.

53. I was suggesting he doesn't watch the games.

56 - I know what you were suggesting.

51

Are the words "tycka" and "tro" both of the same mood? Or does Swedish even have moods for verbs?

It's almost like Swedish has a mood for verbs that is halfway between indicative and subjunctive.

It's like it's the indijunctive. Or the subjcative.

I tycker Joe Beimel is the best left handed relief man in the NL. I can't imagine too many better. My last comment on Joe Beimel.

non-closer I mean

Jon, how was the suite? Where exactly are they? Do you get a good view of the game? It sounds like they are available on a single-game basis. That might be interesting for me to look into.

59

That message was brought to you by the Joe Beimel Marching and Chowder Society.

A Delaware Limited Liability Corporation.

A Delaware Limited Liability Corporation

Like the Hanso Foundation.

Perhaps the Hanso Foundation has created some powerful magnetic force that has turned around Joe Beimel's career. Sort of like how Locke can walk again and Rose's cancer has gone away.

Maybe the Hanso Foundation isn't so evil after all....

61 - It was nice. Rob would be the one to ask for full details. The view was nice - I'm sure you can imagine it. Just like a front row seat on the old Club level, down the right-field line.

66. Anyone ever sit in the Diamond Seats? That's 4 hours of living the good life.

60- is there a hatch under the mound?

The Dodgers actually had Rickey Henderson and Fred McGriff in the lineup at the same time? Man, where was I in 2003?

If we're 25 years in the future, looking back at that lineup -- Rickey Henderson, Paul LoDuca, Shawn Green, Fred McGriff, and Adrian Beltre -- we'd probably be thinking, man the Dodgers must have had a great year that year! Of course, they weren't all in their prime at the same time. It might be fun to drag out other old lineups and imagine what might have been if only they were all in their prime at once.

Well, okay ... but more fun than arguing over Joe Beimel.

make that 64

66
Warren Beatty and Annette Bening were in that section Friday night.

They don't strike me as a sports-loving couple, not like a Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon.

I LOVE the diamond seats. Best seats in the house. Best view of the players pre-game. Great dinner. All the booze you want. HEAVEN.

The hatch under the mound at Dodger Stadium is called "The Curve."

bluetahoe,

I don't think you're taking into account that Beimel has only thrown about 13 innings this year. I'm not ragging on him, I like how he's performed so far...but let's not get TOO excited over a guy who has only thrown 13 innings for us, and his previous years' numbers are sub par at best.

There are a few other lefties out there who have better numbers out of the pen than Beimel...going by the numbers, he's not the best left handed specialist in the league. Right now he's doing okay, but I'm not jumping on the bandwagon until he produces for a long period of time..which is something he's never proven in the past.

73. No comment till next week. I'm going to get my photograph with Joe. I feel it. I'll post it next week if someone tells me how.

what if the dodgers had a hydrolic platform under the mound and whenever we needed a pitcher from the bullpen the mound would open and gagne or baez or even carter would rise up from below dodger stadium directly onto the mound??

Are the Diamond seats the same as the Dugout Club. Cause the booze isn't free. In fact in the bar next to the resturant the drinks are fancy-shmancy resturant/club prices.

Clippers vs Dodgers tonight! What do you do, flip the channels back and forth? Break out the picture n picture? Watch basketball until the Clippers fall far enough behind? Watch baseball until the final 2 minutes of the basketball game? Watch the Clipper game and follow the Dodgers on DT? Or just go to bed early and forget the whole thing? Decisions, decisions... oh the permutations are endless. vr, Xei

The guy has only pitched 13.1 innings this year wtih a 2.70 ERA. That's not stellar. He's given up two HR in those 13 innings and only struck out four. Not to mention in 2001-2003 when he pitched a good amount of innings his ERAs were: 5.23, 4.64, 5.05

Exactly. If this is the best left handed reliever in the major leagues, then how effective are left handed relievers to begin with?

77
I think the permutations would have an end, but it would still be a very large number and you wouldn't be able to go through all of them.

77. Also, 24 is on tonight. Yikes.

77 Tivo the Dodgers, watch the Clippers. Game 7s don't come along often for the Clippers.

64<