Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
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More and more, the Brad Penny blowup becomes less about the easily talked-out shouting match and more about how much pain he was pitching in Monday, how secretive he was being and how much risk he was taking.
"That's probably the slowest I've thrown in my entire career," Penny told Allison Ann Otto of the Press-Enterprise.
Then, there's this from Tony Jackson of the Daily News. On the one hand, Dodger manager Grady Little "downplayed" Penny's injury. On the other, pitching coach Rick Honeycutt indicates that the team didn't really know what they were downplaying.
"If anybody is ever hurt bad enough that he can't pitch, we won't pitch him," Little said.
Honeycutt also seemed surprised Penny had characterized his injury as being so severe.
"What (Penny) told us was that his arm wasn't 100 percent," Honeycutt said. "Part of their (players') responsibility is that they have to be honest with us. They have to be able to answer the question of whether they can go or not go. ... That (tirade) isn't something I condone. That wasn't a professional way to handle it by any means."
This story is dovetailing too well with the return of Eric Gagne. Last month on SI.com, I wrote about Gagne, who has often seemed to seek out winds he could throw caution to, but the message applies rather generally :
Even with the promise that the worst has to be behind them, it's time to play it safe. Gagne has been one of the most reliable relievers in Dodgers history, but if anything has become clear, it's that he cannot be trusted to monitor his physical condition. The Dodgers training staff should draw similar skepticism.At the risk of this becoming a tirade, I'm staying on the Dodgers' case. Given their history, the Dodger staff and players, especially the players, need to understand how often playing in pain leads to decreased performance at a minimum, if not more serious, debilitating injuries.This isn't meant to be an insult. No one's saying this stuff is easy. But given that it's not easy, isn't it time that everyone involved started to take it easy? If the past two seasons have been the Dodgers' idea of being careful with Gagne, isn't it time to redefine what "being careful" means?
Between the lines, baseball's biggest sinner is the malingerer: the guy who doesn't run out a ground ball, the guy who asks for a day off to nurse the sniffles. But when you think about it, perhaps some cross words should be directed at the chronic gamer, the player who can't see that he needs to rest until it's too late.
For all the misfortune the Dodgers have endured since their last World Series title in 1988, Gagne was a gift. He was an off-the-radar minor leaguer with the modest potential to become an average starting pitcher, who instead became baseball's greatest reliever this side of Mariano Rivera. The Dodgers got a break in Gagne. They could use some more. But they also need to make their own breaks.
It's time to get real. It's time for everyone - Gagne included - to stop living on hope, to stop looking at Gagne as a superhero. Impatience is like kryptonite for a stubborn competitor like Gagne. If there is to be a next chapter in his career, it's time to be open about the pain and let the guy heal. Completely.
Just because it's sometimes productive and occasionally heroic doesn't make it right. Every day isn't the ninth inning against Oakland in 1988.
In the end, I think all I'm asking for is a better culture of honesty. It goes without saying that I can't judge who is healthy enough to play for the Dodgers. But unless the Dodger players and staff are open with each other, they're not able to judge either.
Continuing Hochevar Thoughts from the last thread, I can understand the view that he just wants too much money and the view that, in the long term, the team benefits from not caving in. But I really disagree with the view that Hochevar's actions were greedy or immature or somehow reflect some personality flaw that makes him undesirable. For one thing, I don't find it objectionable that prized athletes chase the money. Almost anyone would in their shoes, and it's not like he's swiping it from some other kid's backpack. More important, he's just kid handling a challenging situation with a lot of people whispering a lot of different things in his ear. If he acted awfully or stupidly or, most likely, arrogantly, so be it. We'd all want a second chance in those circumstances and I'd sure rather root for a team that showed some management humanity in a situation like this.
Anyhome, sign him or don't, but I sure hope the decision is made on the "do we think he'll be good enough to justify the money" merits. (Of course, along with reg, I think the answer to that almost has to be yes given the cost in dollars and draft picks of acquiring starting pitching in this league.)
http://tinyurl.com/p2uja
I'm still waiting to hear Stan Johnston's side of the story, starting with Odalis Perez c. 2003, right up to Penny.
There are levels I go to well beyond tirade. Fortunately, I'm in the privacy of my own car many of those times.
See 2. The Dodgers really just throw Penny by the wayside because of this.
http://tinyurl.com/m6ndm
What's next for MLB.TV? Direct connections to subscriber's skulls?
http://tinyurl.com/rmjhy
http://tinyurl.com/lqf5j
Only time will tell whether The Milledge make a Lasting impression...
https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/386879.html
20 yes. And Izzy moved to the 60 day DL (I think this is retroactive to the beginning of the season) to make room on the 40 man.
It's possible that when the trainers were asking him about where it hurt and poked him and got the telltale "rebound tenderness."
(Years of watching TV medical shows have taught me that. I think I picked it up on something very realistic like "House" or "Grey's Anatomy".)
You mean Doogie wasn't very realistic...?
As much as I'm a fan of the work of James B. Sikking, I would have to say no.
Obviously there is a lot that goes on regarding how injuries are dealt with on various teams.
Recent history tells us that some players are very hesitant to tell their teams how they are really feeling, see Shawn Green and Steve Finley.
Given that both Jim Tracy and Mike Scioscia are going to give a lot of deference to their veteran players, was it selfish of those players to not fully disclose their conditions to their teams?
I think there is still an "old school" mentality that exists in sports that you play through injuries, images like Jack Youngblood playing in the Super Bowl with a broken ankle are often highlighted while once the stink of the term injury-prone is applied to a player, it is hard for him to get rid of it.
Add the factor of multi-million contracts, insurance policies, marketing, and even fantasy sports, gone are the days of when the DL was limited to the transactions blurb in the back of the sports page.
I think, that either Odalis should take Brad Penny's next start, that way Brad could rest until June 13th. Better yet, put him on the DL today, and bring up Chad. You can still keep him on schedule to return that week while not wasting a roster spot.
If you say you're injury-prone, then you're stamped with the mark of J.D. Drew. And Tony La Russa will hate you forever.
Is this a Stan Johnston issue, or does it run deeper?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2463310
http://tinyurl.com/mgt3g
we have a good team and the odds are with nomar probably coming in second to pujols, drew and furcal might be our only shot at having a starting representitive. looking at the ballot, i think russell martin is orders of magnitude than almost every candidtate, so i think the dodgers should start a write-in campaign.
The final tally would have read Green/Penny/Yhancy for C Young/Navarro/El Duque. A future OF of JD/Young/Kemp or Guzman or Ethier would have been sweet. Course I'm a big C Young fan as Center Fielders with power /speed/plate discipline don't come around often.
Blame Logan White for this one Nate. If he wasn't going to ante up the money for Luke then he shouldn't have wasted our pick. Everyone knew going in what Luke wanted, a 4 million bonus and a major league contract. That was the only reason he fell to our pick.
http://tinyurl.com/oqy5u
warning, abrasive language, be prepared
Plus I would love for Seattle to waste their pick on him. They will end up with another Beltre fiasco. Bavasi should know he can't pick the pocket of the Dodgers without feeling the pain. Once Luke goes into the Seattle horror show of arm injuries he's toast.
He is one of those "gutsy" guys and usually has 1-2 stints on the DL each season. So far they are saying it is tendinitis since the pain goes away during the game. His quote was that they "will work through this."
I'm not going to blame White for not wanting to deal with an agent and player who IIRC called him an out-and-out liar. The issue here wasn't about money in my view--it was about how Hochevar and Boras conducted business, or, at least, how White thought they conducted themselves. I for one would prefer that the decision be made purely on dollars/performance grounds, but I don't think it's crazy for an organization not to want to pay top dollar to a player and agent who it perceives to be profoundly unprofessional. And considering the flame-out rate of amateurs, I don't think this is by any means an indefensible move, even on purely baseball grounds.
WWSH
Uncle Miltie, please pick up the white courtesy phone or see your nearest gate agent. Thank you.
WWSH
Same thing with Weaver....gets offered a guarateed 24 mill from us...now he'll be lucky to get half that after this season. These guys deserve what they get for dealing with Boras.
Hard to imagine that McCourt even cared about the Hochevar situation. It didn't reflect poorly on the Dodgers, and it saved or postponed a big financial outlay.
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