Bryan Morris did not sign with the drays and will go in this years draft.

he is very comparable to matt cain- great fb, hammer cb, both from tennessee. I really wanted Morris with our 40th pick last year (until hochevar dropped) and I would love to pick him at 31. He is a awesome talent with a pretty high ceiling.

Could you imagine what it must be like to be a AAA kid and suddenly finding yourself facing Eric Gagne in a rehab assignment? It's the kind of shock you'd normally have to wait to get to the majors for.

what do you think Ned is offering for crawford?

navarro, guzman, orenduff? that might be too much eh.

Crawford stats, his first, incomplete season not included for fairness' sake.

2003- .281/.309/.362 OPS-.671
2004- .296/.331/.450 OPS-.781
2005- .301/.331/.469 OPS-.800

His 05 and 06 years featured slugging percentages boosted by a lot of doubles and triples. I don't know if it's still true, but hasn't it been said that Dodger Stadium supresses extra base hits, except for home runs?

I didn't post his 06 numbers, because of the sample size, but his OPS is actually down from last year thus far, although his OBP is a small amount higher.

I do not want this player, unless he has the potential to suddenly turn into Alex Rios.

I could have sworn Gagne surved out his suspension the first couple of games this year. Didn't he start the season on the roster and decided not to appeal starting game 2 of the season? After that he went on the DL, or am I making all this up?

Hmm, has there been any word of some team activating Clemens oh maybe 50 games ago to do something along these lines?

3 - I doubt Jo-El (new Superman movie anybody?) is part of that proposal Nate, Tampa Bay is still fairly stacked even without CC when it comes to SS/OF. I would be more worried about how the DRays solidify 3B...

And Jon, what did Hee hit 3 of during Gagne's last game?

I asked this in another thread, but don't know if anyone saw it or answered...

How far does Hochevar have to fall before it might make sense for the Dodgers to draft him again? It would give the Dodgers some leverage: Hochevar can sign for $3 million or he can sit out ANOTHER year.

On the other hand, I'd guess that everyone with the Dodgers is ready to put this episode in the past. Still, at what point would you say, "Let's try this again?"

6

guzman can play 3b, thats why i included him. Dont they need a 3b? They might draft their 3b of the future though if Longoria falls to them.

5 - You're making all that up.

Dumb question: Is there any possibility that the Dodgers might re-draft Hochevar?

That would kinda force his and Boras' hand and bring down their demand a bit. I doubt Hochevar would want to sit by for another year without a contract.

7

hes not going to fall. the M's really like him with their #5 pick.

apparently, we signed two Drat and Follows:

LHP Schuyler Tripp and 3B Brian Mathews.

5 9 I remember that, too. He's not making it up... I'll try to find a link.

7 - He won't fall far enough to make the question pertinent, but my guess is that if he were still out there in the third round, the Dodgers would consider him.

5 9

Dodgers | Gagne serves suspension
Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:31:10 -0700

The Orange County Register's Bill Plunkett reports Los Angeles Dodgers CL Eric Gagne dropped his appeal of his two-game suspension and fine held over from last April and began serving it immediately. Gagne had an MRI on his elbow to monitor the healing from his surgery in June. Gagne emphasized that the MRI was "pre-scheduled" for the first available opportunity after the regular season started and was not prompted by any new development with Gagne's elbow. The MRI was clean.

from BA

*the Dodgers signed two draft-and-follows, lefthander Schuyler Tripp and third baseman Brian Mathews. Tripp signed for a $15,000 bonus despite dropping out of Indian Hills (Iowa) CC this spring. He showed enough velocity and arm strength to merit signing while pitching at Perfect Game USA's pre-draft showcase in his native Iowa.

from BA

the Dodgers signed two draft-and-follows, lefthander Schuyler Tripp and third baseman Brian Mathews. Tripp signed for a $15,000 bonus despite dropping out of Indian Hills (Iowa) CC this spring. He showed enough velocity and arm strength to merit signing while pitching at Perfect Game USA's pre-draft showcase in his native Iowa.

Should have posted the link, too:

http://kffl.com/player/5012/mlb

Crawford has had a wrist injury that is finally healed and now the power is returning that he was showing last year. You need to consider his age when looking at his numbers. At the age of 22 he was more advanced then Bonds. At the age of 23 Barry started to develop his power but he only had an OPS of 820 compared to Crawfords 800. At the age of 24 Barry took off but then he floundered again at the age of 26 and posted a sub 800 OPS. Crawford is already a very good player at the age of 23, by the time he's 28 I expect he will be one of the top players in baseball. You can't just look at stats without putting them into context. Take a look at what other 22/23 year full time players have posted with 650 at bats. His 800 OPS at the age of 23 is solid. I will be shocked if he doesn't have a few 900 OPS in his career. He is not some speedy twig like Pierre or Lofton, this guy is built like a running back and his power will surely develop to go along with his insane speed. The only thing lacking in his game is plate discipline. I'd love to have Crawford, I'd stick him in CF and not worry about the position for 10 years.

15, 18 -

Dodger roster on April 4-5:

Pitchers (12): Perez, Carter, Brazoban, Osoria, Hamulack, Baez, Kuo, Lowe, Penny, Saito, Seo, Tomko

Players (13): Furcal, Cruz, Drew, Kent, Martinez, Saenz, Loney, Navarro, Mueller, Alomar, Repko, Ledee, Ross

I know it was written that Gagne would serve the suspension, but he was not activated to do so, as far as I can tell.

18 - According to the Dodgers transactions list, when Gagne was put on the 15 day disabled list, it was retroactive to April 1, so he could not have been active for those two days, therefore he must still have the suspension to serve.

This is just an educated guess because I have not seen any official word of his activation.

19 - TC, as much as I like Crawford and the DRays, that sounds an awful lot like all the talk about "Carlos Beltran as the new Barry Bonds" after one good month in 2004...

8 - You mean Longoria will be better than Ty Wigginton, Russ Branyan, and Sean Burroughs??

20 Ah -- so the report was inaccurate. Now I get it.

What seems to have happened was that the Dodgers planned to have Gagne serve the suspension when his arm was sore in early April but before they realized he needed surgery. Once that became clear, I'm assuming that they didn't want to play shorthanded right then, and gambled that they would be better off being shorthanded as his return neared.

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/343612.html

21
I think there's the answer.

You can't be both on the DL and serving a suspension.

I thought we could not re-draft Hochevar.

20 21 Just to continue this a bit... I recall watching the games in early April and seeing Gagne sit in the dugout and Vin saying he was serving the suspension. Didn't anybody notice at the time that he wasn't on the roster?

27 Never mind -- took too long to type. Thanks for the insights.

On the Hochevar situation, I think once the off-season played out and they had the Angels pick and the first supplemental, the chances of them signing Hochevar was slim not withstanding the botched signing last September.

At this point, I think the Dodgers want to restock their lower system and probably (and I'm sure to the regret of some on this board) look to deal some of the prospects because of both major league needs and that they probably can't keep all of them on their 40 man roster.

I saw a note in Kevin Goldstein's BP column that Edwin Jackson is now pitching in the bullpen, its early yet but neither Tiffany nor Jackson have done anything to raise much yelling about the deal, except for the screaming fans do when Carter came into the game.

Maybe on another off day, say next Thursday after the draft, we can have a discussion about the draft and our recent minor league deals, say starting with the trade for Milton Bradley in 2004. It would be interesting to see the progress or lack of progress of those deals and realize how all of this is crapshoot.

19-

I'm not saying Crawford won't become a good player. However, just because his early careeer numbers profile similar to Bonds early years, that does not mean he will turn into Bonds. I'm sure there are many more marginal MLB players who have put up those numbers and not turned into good players.

And considering the delusional Tampa Bay front office, they probably believe that Crawford is worth Guzman, Billingsley, Laroche, Hu, a first and second round pick, a beef and bean burrito, and a nicely written greeting card.

This is an organization that values speed over everything. Remember their hyping of Gathright as the next big thing based solely on his ability to jump over a car or some nonsense?

Crawford is not worth the price unless he turns into a very good player, which I am skeptical will happen.

22
I'm not saying that Crawford has a chance to be Barry Bonds, I'm just pointing out that at the same age of 22, Crawford was the better player. By 23 Bonds had already surpassed Crawford. I'm just saying that any 23 year old who posts an 0PS of 800 in 650 at bats should not be taken lightly. He has the skills to become an excellent player. Bill James has him with a 25% chance of getting 3000 hits and a 3% chance of 4000 hits. He only gives 4 players a chance of 4000 hits and they are Arod/Pujols/Jeter. That is select company even if the odds are only 3%.

"This is an organization that values speed over everything."
-------

It took me a second to realize you were talking about Tampa Bay, since the same now applies to us too.

30 31

FWIW -- which might be something, maybe not -- here's John Sickels's Crystal Ball on Crawford...

http://tinyurl.com/p5yym

Fair? Wild-eyed enthusiasm? Only time will tell.

30
Of course I agree the price for Crawford is probably a price I would not pay. I was strictly responding to your post that you couldn't understand why the Dodgerrs would be interested as though Crawford was just some run of the mill outfielder.

If were going to talk with Tampa then we need to get Upton and stick him in CF. He will be the best player they produce.

I think Gagne may have served his suspension.
I Agree that Hochevar is too young to carry full responsability for some of his confused actions, but I can't say the same for some of the GM's who are stupid or greedy enough to deal with Boras.

31 Except in Crawford's case -- unlike those other guys -- his chances at collecting a lot of hits appear to be due mostly to racking up more at-bats than everybody else, thanks to (a) batting leadoff and (b) never walking.

I'd have no problem getting Crawford if the price was reasonable. He's basically Kenny Lofton, except fifteen years younger and he has power. I also don't think Dodger Stadium would supress his extra base hits, since his speed allows him to create doubles from hits that should be singles. Most importantly, he's 25, so there's still room to improve.

Yes, he has terrible discipline (which at least so far is improving), but as long as he replaces Lofton and we don't try to force him into a leadoff role, I have no problem with Carl Crawford.

36 Right. But 4,000 hits is (are?) still 4,000 hits -- isn't it (aren't they)?

Jon, I do think it's legitimate for Dodger fans to be upset at a player who agreed to a contract and then reneged on his word. Youth is not an excuse for everything, and even a 21-year old (who is an adult, BTW) should know better than that.

That said, I think a lot of the distaste for Hochevar among Dodger fans is actually proxy hatred of Boras.

35 - We already went through the suspension discussion. He did not serve it.

With all due respect, Jon, I couldn't disagree more. There's a difference between maximizing your earnings and being greedy. He is a complete moron to turn down the 3 mill we offered him because no one else is going to offer him that.

It's also his own fault for hiring Boras in the first place. That guy is a cancer and is continually screwing over his clients. Is Jeff Weaver going to be happy next year when he commands probably half of what the Dodgers offered this offseason?

I also don't buy the argument that he's 21 years old and naive. The dodgers plunked three million bucks at the table and he should have jumped at it...remember, Boras works for HIM not the other way around. When I played baseball in college, if someone threw down that kind of cash I would have taken it without a second thought...really, how many times in your life are you guaranteed three million dollars? Not many...and it's not as if the Dodgers offer was absurdly low either....

Reports have Clemens going back to Houston. I saw it yahoo.com.

36
Except your expecting a 23 year old to not grow as a hitter. Sickels expects his walk rate to increase and still garner 3000 hits. Jeter went from 48 walks at the age of 22 to 91 walks at the age of 25.

42-

drafting him the 13th round of my fantasy draft is going to turn out to be a really key pick...

Crawford hasn't reached the level of Lofton's prime yet because he doesn't have the plate discipline Lofton did, nor are his batting averages as high.

I tend to think of Crawford's upside as Lou Brock except with half as many steals. Whether that equals a star player is, I guess, in the eye of the beholder.

Crawford's 10 most similar players to this point in his career:

Claudell Washington (947)
Whitey Lockman (937)
Terry Puhl (934)
Roberto Clemente (928) *
Carlos May (924)
Fred Merkle (924)
Les Mann (923)
Rickey Henderson (922)
Dick Hoblitzel (922)
Vic Saier (918)

Which I guess means 20 years from now we will either be memorializing his untimely death in a relief mission to Iraq, or lamenting the Crawford Boner.

41
I can't imagine Seattle wasting their 6th pick unless they are going to meet the Boras demand of 4 million so he may have won this battle.

If this was just about a guy getting drafted and holding out for 4 million and not getting it that would be one thing. But his bizarre actions with his best friend, the other agent, Boras, the accusations afterwards that seemed to be unjustified left the whole thing with a bad smell. The only thing that bothers me is that we knew when we drafted him that he wanted 4 mill and major league deal. If we weren't going to offer him that, then why take a chance and waste a 1st round sandwich pick on him?

46-

that I'll agree with. I guess White probably thought 4 mill was the high end, and that they'd take a little less a la Jered Weaver.

He took a calculated risk and it failed...oh well, lesson as always is: don't deal with Boras unless it's absolutely necessary.

Hopefully this year we can wrangle a good pitcher or two out of the draft...

Anything that predicts 3000 hits for a player currently in the minors has to be read for entertainment purposes only, right? This just seems to be too much of a flyer to be taken seriously.

41 -

Paragraph 1: We're not disagreeing, except with your harsh word choice. I said up top I think he's taking a huge risk.

Paragraph 2: You're overstating the case against Scott Boras. For every Weaver, there's a J.D. Drew. There's Adrian Beltre. That being said, again, Hochevar has to live with the consequences of his choice. Where are we disagreeing? All you're saying in this paragraph is that the hiring of Boras was self-defeating - which I'm not really arguing against.

Paragraph 3: Again, I agree with you. I don't understand why he's turning down all that money other than that Boras is telling him he can get more.

Maximizing your earnings vs. being greedy is just semantics. What you really seem to be saying is that Hochevar is being stupid - again, I'm not arguing that.

Is that stupidity what's angering you?

Accepted. You don't think Hochevar will fall to 3rd round in this years weak draft and I agree. Wouldn't he have to fall to 4th anyway. We don't have a third round pick do we?

45
Kenny Lofton was still learning how to play the game in the minors while Crawford was toiling in the Majors. Lofton didn't hit the major full time until he was 25. By the time Carl hits 25 he will have been in the majors 3 1/2 seasons.

That is two (Clemente, Ricky) of the greatest players to ever play the game out of 10. So a 20% chance to be a HOF and not just a HOF but one of the best is not something you'd gamble on?

48
Don't know what your talking about. Crawford has already amassed over 650 hits in the major leagues before his 25th birthday.

51 Well, the converse is, there's an 80% chance that you'll trade the future of your franchise for somebody like Vic Saier.

I have a huge mancrush on Carl Crawford, so don't take everything I write in this post seriously. First off all, Crawford is not a weak speed guy as ToyCannon noted. He is 6'2 220, much bigger than he looks when you first see him. The guy is oozing with potential and his power is just starting to develop. Someone else brought up the wrist injury- he played the first month/month and a half with this injury which seemed to sap him of a lot of his power. Players like Crawford don't come aren't usually available on the trading block, especially at his age. This is a rare opportunity to trade for a young player who is a locked up for a while and hasn't even entered the prime of his career. In Crawford, we could be trading for a future batting champ and guy who consistently produces 30/40 seasons. He is miscast as a leadoff hitter because of his great speed. The perfect spot in the batting order for him is 5th or 6th, where he can run wild with no great hitters hitting behind him and he'll also have an opportunity to drive in a lot of runs. I've been watching Crawford since he was called up by the D-Rays in 2002 and he's shown an enormous amount of improvement. I guess I could understand them wanting to cash in on Crawford with a soon-to-be full outfield, but I'd rather have him than the very overrated Rocco Baldelli.

Here is what Ned's first offer should look like:
Guzman, Navarro and Izturis

Does this offer get it done?

37- he is not basically Kenny Lofton. They are somewhat different players. Kenny has better plate discipline, but Crawford is a much better defender

If were going to talk with Tampa then we need to get Upton and stick him in CF. He will be the best player they produce.
I've been saying this for the past year, but I don't think it will happen. My mancrush for Bossman is even bigger than the one I have for Crawford.

Is that stupidity what's angering you?

haha..I guess so. It's really not even so much that we didn't sign him, it's that the guy can be so stupid to turn down that kind of money.

I'm also doubly biased against Boras because he works in the same building as one of my best friend's dad....and he's the biggest jerk on the planet.

You're absolutely right about guys like Beltre and Drew but at least they've played at the major league level. This is a really young kid with ZERO MLB experience and he was offered THREE million dollars....if turning that down isn't stupid, then I don't know wha t is and THAT'S what's getting under my skin.

I'm tired of arguing for a player that the Dodgers have no chance of trading for. Uncle Miltie can take up the rest of the arguements.

45 Wow, what a mixed bag!

Imagine someone saying "We have the chance to snatch up the next Clemente in his prime!" Now imagnie someone saying "We can get the next Terry Puhl!"

I'm not opposed to Crawford per se, but his profile (speedy outfielder with limited/developing on-base skills and power) is somewhat troubling if he's the apple of Ned's eye. Not nearly as troubling as either "old and formerly speedy outfielder" or "middling veteran refief pitcher," but still.

I guess there is one way we could redraft Hochevar:

"A player who is drafted and does not sign with the Club that selected him may be drafted again at a future year's Draft, so long as the player is eligible for that year's Draft. A Club may not select a player again in a subsequent year, unless the player has consented to the re-selection."

42
Sam,
The Clemens report seems to be in doubt.

http://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/388146.html

45 Well, what the heck. The Dodgers missed Clemente the first time around, so why do it again? ;)

I'm debating whether to buy the new Clemente bio by David Marannis or get it at the library.

57 That's an important point in your second paragraph. Colletti going after Crawford is bad, but not as bad as going after a soon-to-be-broken-down power hitter (a la Brian Sabean) or a crappy relief pitcher (a la Ed Wade).

59
"Sam,
The Clemens"

Soon the Griddle posts will be signed

"Bob,
The Timmermann"

Why all the Crawford talk? I missed the beginning of this. Is there a serious rumor about a potential trade?

More like a potential rumor about a serious trade.

62 Well, we know the Mets new outfielder is going by

"Lastings,
The Milledge"

As if his name needed to become even more Dickensian.

I hope the Dodgers don't trade for Crawford because they have become my 2nd favorite team and I hope to see them have a future like my Clippers did and they will need Crawford to make that happen. Once they figure things out and put Bossman, D Young, and Dukes together with Gomes, Baldelli, Cantu they will have a powerfull offense to go along with a pitching staff that will consist of Kazmir, Neiman, W Davis. 2008 will be the year they replicate the Clipper success story.

61 Lets cut to the chase. We've got plenty of crappy relievers we could trade for Carl Crawford. I'm not sure we've got a power hitter, even of the broken down variety (Jayson Werth?!?).

I've said we are in a position to make no trade unless it is ridiculous.
However I would consider Uncs trade of Navarro,Iszy,and Guzman for Upton and Crawford. Just consider, mind you.

Sigh. Why does TBS only broadcast one of the 3 Dodgers-Braves games this week? For those of us outside LA, this is a bummer. Oh well, at least I could watch yesterday's game, since ESPN thought the paintball championships were more important than baseball.

67 You meant the Devil Rays are your second favorite team, I take it... Some good young players, definitely. Now if they could only play in a different location. Tropicana Field is the worst stadium in baseball, in a weird location.

67 Did you really mean to call the Dodgers your second-favorite team?

We have a heretic in the house!

Does anyone kow if the Dodgers explored any trade options with Hovhevar. If he is appealing to a club that would sign him knowing what they have to pay to get him signed, isn't it fair to say that they want Hoch pretty bad. Why then did they not make a deal with the Dodgers to sign him, lock him up, and trade their draft pick and cash for Hoch? I look at the mess and just see Boras screwing over another one of his clients, but Luke did everything to himself. At 21 it's fair to say that he knew right from wrong, and had a basic knowledge of business ethics. This mess has everything to do with him acting like a spoiled brat and nothing to do with advancement of his career. He has to see what happens to players like Bradley, who have poor team attitudes and "all about me" behavior.

I wish understood the jokes in 59 62 and 65

I'm not saying that Crawford has a chance to be Barry Bonds, I'm just pointing out that at the same age of 22, Crawford was the better player.

I got another.

"I'm not saying that has a chance to be Barry Bonds, I'm just pointing out that at the same age of 22, was the better player."

I'm not sure what is so special about a player that doesnt walk or hit for much power. Why give up top prospects for him? Willy Aybar has started his career on a better pace than Carl Crawford has. When does Aybar get the "could be Joe Morgan" treatment?

72 You can't trade a draft pick until a year after he signs.

74 So every time Willy Aybar comes on the telly, I'm going to have an overpowering impulse to turn it off?

73 It wasn't a joke exactly, just noting the Twainlike convergence of names.

74. It was supposed to say: I'm not saying that "Aybar" has a chance to be Barry Bonds, I'm just pointing out that at the same age of 22, "Aybar"* was the better player.

I think as a whole age comps are meaningless because the eras are different. Experience curves mean more than just using a player's age, because judging a player based on experience can show a reasonable tract of improvement (or none).

Maximizing your earnings vs. being greedy is just semantics

A bit off-topic, but this claim brings to mind a question I've long pondered.

Is "profit motive" merely a euphemism for "greed," or is it something different?

77

I get it now. I need to get away from my deconstructionist tendencies.

One last fling. According to the Hardball Times JD Drew currently has a RC/G of 6.5. Most would agree that JD is having a decent but not great season. Carl Crawford is 7.3 and that is with him recovering from his injured wrist.

I tried to make a bet at the beginning of the year that Nomar would post a > 800 OPS with the naysayers. No one took me up on the bet. I would be more then willing to do the same Dodger game beer bet that Carl Crawford will end the season with a higher RC/G then JD Drew in 2006. Course be aware that even Kenny Lofton has a higher RC/G then JD Drew at this point in the season. Evidently, speed does matter when it comes to creating runs.

So every time Willy Aybar comes on the telly, I'm going to have an overpowering impulse to turn it off?

Only if he's traded.

Inside the Dodgers says:

Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF
Nomar, 1B
Drew, RF
Aybar, 3B
Ethier, LF
Martinez, 2B
Martin, C
Sele, P

So much for looking forward to watching The Bison tonight.

However I would consider Uncs trade of Navarro,Iszy,and Guzman for Upton and Crawford
It was for Crawford only. No way the D-rays would also give up Upton.

I hope the Dodgers don't trade for Crawford because they have become my 2nd favorite team and I hope to see them have a future like my Clippers did and they will need Crawford to make that happen.
I like the D-rays also, but it's not like we're ripping them off. Delmon Young is going to be an MVP candidate if he pans out and if he can control his temper, Dukes is going to be a stud. Navarro is a pretty underrated catcher and he's very young, so there's a lot of room for development. Even if Guzman only becomes the next Dean Palmer (offensively) with a little bit higher average, he should be a huge improvement on what the D-rays have been throwing out there at 3B (Alex Gonzalez? Alex Gonzalez!)

Does this offer get it done?

37- he is not basically Kenny Lofton. They are somewhat different players. Kenny has better plate discipline, but Crawford is a much better defender

If were going to talk with Tampa then we need to get Upton and stick him in CF. He will be the best player they produce.
I've been saying this for the past year, but I don't think it will happen. My mancrush for Bossman is even bigger than the one I have for Crawford.

This could be their team in 2 years:
1. Baldelli LF (the only hitter that I don't like in the lineup)
2. Upton 2B
3. Young RF
4. Gomes DH
5. Dukes CF
6. Guzman 3B
7. Bankston 1B
8. Navarro C
9. Izturis SS

85 Which Alex Gonzalez is that? The Bad Alex Gonzalez or the Worse Alex Gonzalez?

My old post just combined with my new post. Here's what I should have written.

However I would consider Uncs trade of Navarro,Iszy,and Guzman for Upton and Crawford
It was for Crawford only. No way the D-rays would also give up Upton.

This could be their team in 2 years:
1. Baldelli LF (the only hitter that I don't like in the lineup)
2. Upton 2B
3. Young RF
4. Gomes DH
5. Dukes CF
6. Guzman 3B
7. Cantu 1B (not Bankston)
8. Navarro C
9. Izturis SS

86- the one who just retired. The one who was a poor hitting shortstop, so the D-rays decided to sign him and play him at 3B

There's only one Alex Gonzalez left. The Boston one.

What?! No Gathright?!

"The one who was a poor hitting shortstop"
--

I'm afraid you've got to be more specific than that.

Actually, looking it up, that's the Bad Alex Gonzalez. The Worse Alex Gonzalez still plays for Boston.

The Alex Gonzalez confusion reminds me: A friend of mine went to a high school game the other day in which Mike Marshall The Hitter, Jr., was playing. Bottom line is, don't hold your breath for a second generation, unless big, slow, singles-hitting outfielders are your thing.

The Worse Alex Gonzalez will probably end up with another ring as the starting SS for the Marlins and now the Red Sox. Some guys are just in the right place at the right time and Ernie Banks just shakes his head.

52 Ahh, nevermind then. I have to admit I don't follow The Devil Rays much at all.

Boy, you go to one little meeting and all of a sudden, you are 40 posts behind.

I don't know if this was discussed in a previous thread but the Royals are considering drafting Hochevar with the #1 overall pick

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/14695819.htm

83- no Crawford yet! :(

How stable are the baseball-reference player comparisons? Do they have any much predictive value, or are they really only good for use in retrospect?

72 Or he might see that Borsas' "all about me guys", if they also are frail and play sparingly, are considered Gods and given contracts like LA gives Drew.

95
Ha Ha, that would be great. They deserve each other, greed and idiocy meet.

Still hoping that Lincecrum falls to us and that if he does we take him.

97 They're essentially nothing more than an escapist amusement since the statistics that are compared are not adjusted for ballpark or era.

For years I've been wishing someone would come up with a version of the formula that would do that.

5 915

It was initially reported that Gagne was allowed to serve the suspension in the Dodgers' second and third games this year, but he then was placed on the disabled list, retroactive to April 1.

"He can't serve on two lists," assistant general manager Kim Ng said on Tuesday. "It's the right thing to do."

5 9 15

It was initially reported that Gagne was allowed to serve the suspension in the Dodgers' second and third games this year, but he then was placed on the disabled list, retroactive to April 1.

"He can't serve on two lists," assistant general manager Kim Ng said on Tuesday. "It's the right thing to do."

so how legit are these d-rays rumors? last i heard aubrey huff was the only dray on the block, as the drays plan on putting cantu on 3rd and moving upton to 2nd

97 - Those comparisons are quite useless.
Example: Adrian Beltre's top comp through age 26 is... Ron Santo? Check their OPS+ numbers and you'll see the folly.

actually they already moved upton to 2nd, so it would seem that the move by cantu is inevitable

Crawford's comparables according to PECOTA:

Willie Davis
Darin Erstad
Willie Wilson
Carlos Beltran
Johnny Damon
Christian Guzman
Lloyd Moseby
Vada Pinson
Marquis Grissom
Bobby Tolan
Ray Lankford
Terry Puhl
Corey Patterson
Garry Templeton
Richie Ashburn

Comping guys from different eras is really ridiculous.

107 I couldn't disagree more. If you do it right, it can be both entertaining and enlightening.

other than the fact that Ken Rosenthal thinks its a good idea, what makes people think that a Crawford deal is even possible?

If I was the DRays I'd ask for Billingsley.

109 Who's to say it isn't possible?

107 - It's ridiculous when not making adjustments for era, league, park, etc. - which is far more work then just holding up two sets of numbers against each other.

109 - I'd assume that he didn't pull the Dodgers name out of a hat. I think either he figures the Dodgers need (present and future)outfield help and they like speed, or there're some rumors about the Dodgers.

It is to close to June for Sele to escape this start with his undefeated season intact.

Could this be the week that our season teeters? Penny with shoulder problems
Sele due to meltdown
Seo losing control
Billingsly slowing down in AAA

Can OP ride to the rescue or is this all just a figment of my imagination?

Great, great play for Furcal. His Rate2 is starting to come up, too. It's only 89, but it was 80 a couple of weeks ago.

I can't imagine Odalis coming to the rescue. I can't imagine how anyone could imagine that.

So one report has Clemens officially signing with the Astros (for an Astro-nomical amount of money) and another says no confirmation yet.

If anyone cares.
That sounded like a great play by Furcal, and Garciaparra, as much as I can tell from the mostly incoherent mouth of Rick Monday.

I can't imagine Odalis coming to the rescue.

Unless Kobayashi was stuck on the 49th hot dog or something.

111. so, no one

Why do I have a bad (but realistic) feeling tha t the laws of average are to collide here today, regarding both starting pitchers?

Forget Carl Crawford.
Wait till Andruw Jones is a free agent and sign him for CF. (I think is after next season).

Was there a play at the plate?

LaRoche just missed that one.

120 - I imagine we'll be saying that every start with Sele until it happens. It almost goes without saying.

121- talk about a guy who has become an average defender. If not for his defensive reputation, Jones would be playing LF now. His defense has really gone downhill and a lot of it has to do with him bulking up so much. I can't believe that he's only 29 years old. I'd expect him to finish his career out in Atlanta unless the Yankees want him (a definite possibility)

120, 124 - Think of it this way: At least we're not watching a once-good pitcher take a beating every start, as we fans say "Maybe he'll turn it around this time."

124 True, I may have even literally said it last time. But this time I also feel like Sosa is due for a win, being better than his Jeff Weaver-ish record.

125 Um, as if on cue... nice catch by Jones on Aybar's ball?

127 Sosa deserves everything he gets this year thanks to his amazing record despite terrible perhiprials last year.

Francoeur is quite amusing.
215AB's 3BB 41Ks

Should he not be in the minors?

129 He doubled his walk rate after only 100 at bats. If that's not improvement, I don't know what is.

He's also 0-5 in SB's attempts. Maybe he's going for Robles record last year.

The Braves accept Francouer for the player he is. He's never walked much at any level.

I think it all stemmed from a traumatic experience in T-ball when the other kids laughed at him when he tried to draw a walk.

So how about Fookie's defense? Too great plays in 1 inning. Also a nice catch by Drew.

*Two

Francoeur will be the caucasian Corey Patterson.

From Newsday:
Roger Clemens will take the mound once again. And he's not straying far from home.
Newsday has learned that Clemens, 43, has agreed to terms with the Houston Astros, the team for which he pitched each of the last two seasons. The seven-time Cy Young Award winner, who could be pitching in the major leagues by the end of June, will earn somewhere between $3.5 million and $4 million per month, netting him roughly $12 million for about a half-season's work.
An announcement will likely come this week.

Barry just wants to be loved. Is that so wrong?

http://tinyurl.com/pgtuz

136

But what is the truth?
http://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/388146.html

regfairfield - I noticed that the rate2 figures were finally up for Russ Martin (looking back to your defensive breakdown last week, which I found fascinating by the way. Go LII!)

Russ checks in at a cool 127.

Dioner is at 82 this year.

Somewhere between 82 and 127 is an accurate figure for both players. I also think that both players rates are closer to each other than their small samples from this year might suggest.

139 Thanks.

Ethier currently sits at 112, for anyone interested.

138 - Whoops. Sorry about the repeat, guru of the griddle.

Rate2 figures are posted where?

Baseball Prospectus in the DT cards.

Why all the Francoeur-bashing? Didn't you all see the Delta ad on TBS yesterday with Francoeur and the Danish kid who loves him and the ball that reaches across the ocean to Denmark, where many Braves fans apparently reside. Francoeur hits autographed balls across oceans! You can't walk across oceans!

Thanks.

Is it okay to boo Steve Lyons?

It's not just OK, it's mandatory!

Bad call by the umpire, Wilber should have walked there

Argh, so much for Alay Soler. Feh! Damn Diamondbacks... {mutter}...

WOO HOO!

That was the worst home run call ever by Rick Monday, and that's saying alot.

"Eth" "Ee" "Ay"
"Eth" "Ee" "Ay"

Raja Bell is gonna give it a shot for the Suns tonight.

That was a towering drive. If there had been people on a tower, they would have said, that's as high as we are!

Alay Soler is Cuban for Danys Baez.

Meanwhile, my future Hall-of-Fame left fielder rocks.

151
You're just going to encourage Jon to keep mispronouncing his name!

150 - Details?

One thing I have to give Flanders. That was a great trade for Ethier.

153 Towering, you could have fooled Rick Monday. In fact, it did fool Rick Monday. I think he actually took a brief nap before the ball officially left the playing field.

light tower power!

Ethier's power has been surprising so far. I didn't think he had this much power. Maybe, he could eventually end up hitting 25 to 30 a year.

Aybar, Ethier. Who are these guys? In any case, Aybar should get some credit for his at-bat. That was partly responsible for Ethier getting a good pitch to hit.

That was a bomb by Ethier- it should have been a 3 run homer. The at bats by Drew and Wilber really helped wear down Sosa.

156 Besides the above, I believe his call was something like this, "Ethier hits it high. Francoeur goes back. He's still going back. It's... Francoeur's at the wall... {zzzzzz} And, it's out of here."

Note the "." at the end of the sentence. That's important.

150 - Seriously, I think after being in ballparks during all of your adult life, you should recognize a home run chance when you see it.

This article by Ken Rosenthal was up a few days ago, so it was probably reported already but a nice puff piece on the Dodger front office, Rosenthal does acknowledge that Depo may have done many of the same moves but Depo's "style" hindered him. At least that was my interpretation.

http://tinyurl.com/r9ceo

Brent Leach is having quite the day. After pitching 4 innings at Columbus, he is now relieving Alberto Bastardo (who was terrible) in Vero. Both games started at the same time. I have a feeling MiLB.com has messed up somewhere

And Monday just repeated the exact same call for LaRoche's home run.

Argh.

Oh oh, only second home run against Sele, the other one was by Vlad. Sounds like jetstream to left center today.

Hey, Adam LaRoche hits another home run against us.

Apparently, the Dodgers are the cure for LaRoche's ADD.

Bastardo was a minor league Rule 5 pick up, he seems to be someone who has some very good numbers but maybe can't go thru the line up twice.

O.K. just as long as Andy has the same power genes or better. Andy has a great eys an plenty of time to become a good Mleaguer.
with his arm and instinct I love the view about two years out.

all of Laroche's homerun look like pop flies.

I really wish someone would tell Sele that the rulebook specifically prohibits throwing a "Ritalin ball".

164 - http://tinyurl.com/mh2uf

Hope Sele can get us at least 5 innings. Our starters have been knocked out real early this road trip except for Lowe.

I think Saito might be able to go 2 if needed tonight since Grady likes to use 2 innings for a relief pitcher lately.

The infield graphic on ESPN Gamecast has Ramon Martinez catching and no one playing second for the Dodgers. Unless it is some sort of ingenius shift, with Martin in the stands?

172 which Laroche is that?

I didn't think Laroche's HR was gone. It looked like Ethier would be able to catch it at the wall.

Martin's offensive line is just about identical to Navarro's now.

Grabowski principle?

My fault, I called him up from the minors on my fantasy team.

Are we ever going to see this sexy lineup: Furcal/Aybar/Nomar/Drew/Kent/Kemp/Ethier/Martin?

Ah okay, I'll cut Monday some slack then.

Meanwhile, there must be a jet stream, since Sele just doubled.

174
That was a quintessential BTF thread.

That was lucky!

Drew and Martin are the only players in the Dodgers lineup not hitting at least .308 in May.

Love those first pitch swinging ground balls, actually I prefer pop ups but I'll take it.

GIGANTOR sighting in Phila, once Brett Myers gets through the 8th...

165-Thank you,I was seriously contemplating Leach's ability to defy all natural law and be in too places simultaneously.I was wondering if Billingsley could pitch in LA and Las Vegas at the same time.After all its closer than Columbus to Vero Beach.I hadn't considered it might have been an error.

Either the camera is at a weird angle, or that strike 3 call on Drew was way off.

There's a Condition Orange Cycle Alert in Detroit.

Pudge Rodriguez needs a double.

The Yankees have reliever starter Aaron Small with Scott Erickson.

That should have been "relieved" instead of "reliever".

190 My sense is that all the close ball/strike calls have gone Atlanta's way. It's getting irritating.

{pour_gas_on_fire}
How come talking about a cycle doesn't jinx it, but talking about a no-hitter does?
{/pour_gas_on_fire}

I hate it when you know your starter has about an inning left and he is due up third in the next inning.

Cycles don't have as much tension as a no-hitter because you don't notice them as much. A no-hitter is constant tension.

194- Maybe it does jinx it a little, but cycles don't really matter. No-hitters are sacred.

Just recovering from a brutal bedtime here, so I may have missed this up above, but in Philly, Starter Tony Armas walked pitcher Brett Myers with the bases loaded (he had previously loaded them by giving up a single, walk, HBP). At that point, he was removed from the game.

Now, after a 1-2-3 inning by Gigantor, including an Abreu K, Frank Robinson will face the brutal decision whether to allow Royce Clayton to lead off the top of the ninth. I was told that Clayton is hitting .333 while batting second, but that certainly seems impossible to me.

The Angels have just traded E. Yan to the Reds for a 5 year minor league right handed pitcher who is pitching in the FSL. They also got some cash.

That was Repkorific.

The umpire screwed Drew on the same pitch that Aybar should have walked on.

K Loft showing off his gold glove defense turning a flyball into a triple. That was scrappy.

No-hitters are sacred.

I still maintain that no-walkers are more impressive, given that "hits" are something pitchers have less control over.

If only the Dodger broadcasters read DT:

YANKEES 8TH: OYLER REPLACED KALINE (PLAYING SS); STANLEY CHANGED
POSITIONS (PLAYING CF); NORTHRUP CHANGED POSITIONS (PLAYING RF);
Gibbs made an out to third; Mantle homered; Famous grooved
fastball for Mantle; Freehan tells Mantle what's coming and the
Mick hits it into the upper deck; Pepitone singled to left;
Robinson made an out to left; Tresh grounded out (first to
pitcher); 1 R, 2 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Yankees 2, Tigers 6.

202
You must have a shrine built in honor of Bob Tewksbury and Babe Adams up in your home.

Whoa --I just got back- who messed up our lead-Sele? well he was due one and he hasn't done badly.

203- More details Denny McLain won his 31st game that season, I have heard of that grooved pitch before but of course that makes for a great story when your pitcher has just won his 31st game.

206
Retrosheet has a goof there. Look at the box score of the game and see who the Tigers catcher was that day.

IT WAS NOT BILL FREEHAN.

Yanks pull Erickson. Proctor will pitch to Pudge.

Anybody watching the Yankee game--Is Proctor trying to hit Pudge?

201 while that is accurate, I think it is relevent that for all our "good sytem" we haven't produced a CF who would have reached that ball in years-except for Repko-who would likely have looked so ridiculous trying to catch it. Thats a ML play, even missing it.

204
You must have a shrine built in honor of Bob Tewksbury and Babe Adams up in your home.

It's much too valuable to keep at home...

What is going on in Pittsburgh? 10-1?

Does Charley Steiner get a bonus every time he mispronounces a player's name?

Rafael Fur-CAL
Juan En-car-Nation

We are about to be Baezed.

Blown Save Baez is in. Glorious!

I'll go on record as saying that Baez is useless.

We've just entered The Baez Zone.

If Bobby Cox is having Renteria sac bunt, the Dodgers once again deserve to win this game based on sheer principle.

It's one of baseball's bizarre ironies that failed "closers" are immediately thrust into higher leverage situations than those they just failed in. Of course, Bobby Cox could always save us with a stupid bunt.

Meanwhile, my favorite use of scare quotes in a long time is D4P's use of them for the word "hits."

Renteria's hitting .330 with an OBP over .400, and he's facing Danys Baez. And you bunt?

Baez me not. Please. And is Carnation as in instant milk the end of the proper pronunciation.

Wow, we are horrible at rundowns

what a terrible run down.

Who do you prounounce Encarnacion, because I think I pronounce it like Steiner.

Almost got two of the buggers. Good Job!

LOL... half way to being saved.

I love stupid managers.

4-5-2-6-5 does it all the time.

Wow, Baez is awesome!

The Stupid Bunter Principle defeats every other known principle, theory, hypothesis. It may be even stronger than the Grabowski Principle.

One of the worst rundowns I've seen in a while. Thank you Bobby Cox for bunting with one of your best hitters. I can maybe understand it, if it's the bottom of the ninth inning, but not in that situation.

Melky Cabrera just needs a homer now for the cycle. But it's the 8th inning and he hasn't hit a homer this year either.

213
There's nothing so painful to the ears as listening to Steiner "pronounce" Encarnacion.

Sosa's thrown 118 pitches and he's still out there?

Bobby Cox is always raised as an example of a good manager, but I guarantee you that in every series in at least recent memory, Bobby Cox has been completely out-managed, and that was when Jim Tracy was here.

Thank you Bobby Cox for bunting with one of your best hitters.

It was his best hitter, at least just counting the first two months.

Buniting in that situation is like not fouling with a 3 point lead at the end of the game, if you take the opposite approach, you risk messing with standard coaching procedure.

Not agreeing but no one is going to write tomorrow that the big mistake of the game was having Renteria bunt.

Unless Gameday is on the fritz, I believe Jorge Sosa has morphed into Mike Remlinger.

235. I think it just seemed that way because Tracy always had much better bullpens. Its really amazing how good Gagne made Tracy look, not the other way around as some would have you believe.

This umpire is really not calling it both ways.

JD do!

Gameday is also claiming that Nomar bunt grounded out, followed by a double by Drew.

234 - Bobby Cox has not had a reliable bullpen since John Smoltz became a starter again.

I do believe that in today's game, if you can ever shore up innings 7-8-9, you will sleep a lot better. That is why, more and more pitchers are being trained for the bullpen instead of the old days when relievers were always failed starters.

In comment 34 of the last thread, I linked a USS Marniner deconstruction of a recent game in which Mike Hargrove had his reported best hitter sac bunt 3 times. The game thread comments for that game are pretty amusing too, full of a bunch of utterly horrified Mariners fans. A bit reminiscent of some moments last year around these parts, I will admit.

Though not so smart or funny or thoughtful or cool, of course.

Not agreeing but no one is going to write tomorrow that the big mistake of the game was having Renteria bunt.

If you're worried about what the MSM thinks, I think the battle is already lost.

My gameday is denying that Lofton had an at bat in the eighth inning.

Just another walk for Aybar...

Lofton's AB was listed in the bottom of the seventh. That messed up everything.

Just so all you gameday followers are properly informed Aybar just walked, Ethier is at the plate.

My Gameday is already in the bottom of the 8th, with LaRoche having drawn a walk.

Dont you mean LaRoche?

"eth" "i" "er"

Was Aybar's walk the first of the game for LA?

Did Gameday just give Francouer a hit too... I am guessing Gameday will catch up with the pitching change.

Nice ABs by Aybar and Ethier, and I am happy that we did not see Olmedo come up in that situation, probably saving him for the pitcher's spot since we only have the Tomato, Kemp and Alomar on the bench today with Kent sitting out until maybe tomorrow.

253 - yep

MLB.com, Sportsline, and Yahoo are showing three different realities of this game.

I like Sportsline's the best.

Um, so what's the score in realworldland?

Gameday and sportline are at odds with what happened in the top of the 8th.

ok Martin, put this game away

The Gameday guy is probably doing a lot of muttering and swearing to himself right now.

More "2-out runner in scoring position" hitting!
Love it!

Not agreeing but no one is going to write tomorrow that the big mistake of the game was having Renteria bunt.

That is merely because of the people doing the writing.

258. what is happening, Ethier and Martinez knocked in runs. 5-3 Dodgers, Martin at the plate, runners at 2nd and 3rd. Yates pitching.

renteria makes a great play on a martin grounder, saves one, probably two runs.

Thanks.

Detroit has loaded the bases against Farnsworth no outs. walk single walk.

Martin seems to be doing that every game lately. A sharp, guaranteed run scoring base hit inexplicably caught by the defense.

This is the 1st time there's been a total disagreement between the three reporting agencies that I can remember.

Is anyone actually watching the game on TV or listening on radio? What has actually happened?

Yeah, this is like all the game trackers disappeared into a Bermuda triangle - GameChannel's stuck, GameDay's stuck, SportsLine is less stuck, but has it at 4-3. So it's 5-3 now? Cool.

This is all after mlb audio started crashing all my browsers.

All less painful if we're winning.

Martin robbed of 2 rbis and a hit. It wasn't hit very which is why Ren-ERROR-ia was able to catch it.

262 - The mistake may have been for a veteran lefthander to pitch to Willy Aybar like he was Prince Albert.

Gameday is fixing itself as we speak.

Eth-ee-ay is on pace to hit 40 HRs (in 670 ABs).

Martinez continues to be a surprisingly good hitter.

if you want to laught out loud really hard, watch the highlight of troy glaus' homerun from today and focus on Manny in left field.

The mistake may have been not DFAing Remlinger months ago. But, no, the mistake was a stupid bunt.

Jeff Weaver better start yelling at himself, 2 outs nobody on, 2 batters later, 2-0 Twins on a home run by Hunter.

This is a well deserved Dodger victory. You cant make stupid mistakes like Cox made in the 7th and expect to get away with them.

In order for to Ethier get 670 ABs this season, wouldn't the Dodgers need to score, like, 1500 runs? Or start averaging 20 LOB per night.

Somebody talk Ken back down from the ledge. The Royals are up 2-0 in Oakland.

Now Gameday's really messed up. It's claiming that Tomato got an infield single...

The Tomato got an infield hit, wow I'll have to watch the replay tonight, if only to hear about the time Steve Lyons took off his pants.

Matt Kemp is a lot faster that I was led to believe, straight steal or bunt.....

The Bison is in to pinch run.

he,he

I have to activate Gagne in my fantasy team so I drop Baez, but the transaction is not efective until tomorrow so if things continue as well, I will have another win, he,he...

The Bison

You don't know happy that makes me to read that. I think I'm going to cry...

Doubt Kemp will be called on to pinch run anymore.

Folks,

In case any one cares any more about Baseball tonight Peter is going to prop the Dodger youth in the next segment. It is so amazing how the Dodgers through this streak and bringing up good young players have gotten so little attention.

There's a reason why bison nearly went extinct.

The Dodgers 2-out hitting is something else.

Nomar is now 14 for 17 from the 7th inning on over the last 16 games.
That is a seriously sick stat.

That was a very puppy-like play by Francoeur. The spirit of Repko is strong with this game.

Nomar has become the latest Mr. Clutch, Bob can you enlighten me on the genisis of The Bison?

Francoir did a nice clown act!

Willy Aybar with a really good game tonite.
He caps it.

Just so the record is clear, my "J.D. do!" above referred to the phantom double gameday had awarded him. Needless to say, that comment is no longer operative.

We're good.

You know what, this team may not be that bad, will there be a Saito sighting or a Hamulack sighting?

Francoer did a nice clown act.