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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Suspended in Time
2006-05-30 13:45
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Eric Gagne has been activated so that he can finally serve that two-game suspension from a year ago that, somewhat amazingly, he hasn't served yet. Considering that the Dodgers have no plans to pitch Gagne before June 1, the punishment to Gagne himself is meaningless. But for the Dodgers, it will mean that thier bench is short a man, because Oscar Robles was sent to AAA Las Vegas.

Gagne's last official game was June 12 against Minnesota, the day Hee Seop Choi hit three home runs. The Dodgers were 33-27 (.550) at that point. The next game, in Kansas City of all places, the Dodgers began the eight-game losing streak that sent their season into a nosedive.

* * *

As the Dodgers close the chapter on 2005 draft pick Luke Hochevar, it's worth rembering that the only relevant issue with Hochevar is whether he is worth what he and his his agent are asking, and on this issue, respectable minds disagree. Given the kind of pitching $3 million or $4 million buys these days, I probably would have gone for the potential Hochevar has reportedly shown (I hedge only because I haven't seen Hochevar in person). Given the number of amateur pitching stars that fizzle, however, I can understand why a team would decline at that price.

On the other hand, some people are offended by Hochevar's behavior over the past year, and I still struggle to see why. Hochevar's choice of Scott Boras to represent him and his brief second-guessing of that choice (that led to the temporary verbal agreement with the Dodgers) are reasonable actions for a 21-year-old who a) like most people, would like to maximize his earnings and b) was certainly given more advice than he could know what to do with at that age. The idea that Hochevar should be demonized for these choices, that the Dodgers or their fans should take these actions personally, is pretty strange.

Hochevar has taken a huge risk in turning down what the Dodgers offered. If it proves to be a bad choice, that will be punishment enough for him. And if it proves to be a good choice, his rewards will have been well-earned. The game itself will take care of it.

* * *

Tonight's Game

Comments (422)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-05-30 13:52:31
1.   natepurcell
Bryan Morris did not sign with the drays and will go in this years draft.

he is very comparable to matt cain- great fb, hammer cb, both from tennessee. I really wanted Morris with our 40th pick last year (until hochevar dropped) and I would love to pick him at 31. He is a awesome talent with a pretty high ceiling.

2006-05-30 13:53:05
2.   Robert Fiore
Could you imagine what it must be like to be a AAA kid and suddenly finding yourself facing Eric Gagne in a rehab assignment? It's the kind of shock you'd normally have to wait to get to the majors for.
2006-05-30 13:54:00
3.   natepurcell
what do you think Ned is offering for crawford?

navarro, guzman, orenduff? that might be too much eh.

2006-05-30 14:01:38
4.   Vaudeville Villain
Crawford stats, his first, incomplete season not included for fairness' sake.

2003- .281/.309/.362 OPS-.671
2004- .296/.331/.450 OPS-.781
2005- .301/.331/.469 OPS-.800

His 05 and 06 years featured slugging percentages boosted by a lot of doubles and triples. I don't know if it's still true, but hasn't it been said that Dodger Stadium supresses extra base hits, except for home runs?

I didn't post his 06 numbers, because of the sample size, but his OPS is actually down from last year thus far, although his OBP is a small amount higher.

I do not want this player, unless he has the potential to suddenly turn into Alex Rios.

2006-05-30 14:01:48
5.   gpellamjr
I could have sworn Gagne surved out his suspension the first couple of games this year. Didn't he start the season on the roster and decided not to appeal starting game 2 of the season? After that he went on the DL, or am I making all this up?
2006-05-30 14:02:38
6.   das411
Hmm, has there been any word of some team activating Clemens oh maybe 50 games ago to do something along these lines?

3 - I doubt Jo-El (new Superman movie anybody?) is part of that proposal Nate, Tampa Bay is still fairly stacked even without CC when it comes to SS/OF. I would be more worried about how the DRays solidify 3B...

And Jon, what did Hee hit 3 of during Gagne's last game?

2006-05-30 14:06:41
7.   Humma Kavula
I asked this in another thread, but don't know if anyone saw it or answered...

How far does Hochevar have to fall before it might make sense for the Dodgers to draft him again? It would give the Dodgers some leverage: Hochevar can sign for $3 million or he can sit out ANOTHER year.

On the other hand, I'd guess that everyone with the Dodgers is ready to put this episode in the past. Still, at what point would you say, "Let's try this again?"

2006-05-30 14:07:47
8.   natepurcell
6

guzman can play 3b, thats why i included him. Dont they need a 3b? They might draft their 3b of the future though if Longoria falls to them.

2006-05-30 14:07:53
9.   Jon Weisman
5 - You're making all that up.
2006-05-30 14:08:10
10.   Disabled List
Dumb question: Is there any possibility that the Dodgers might re-draft Hochevar?

That would kinda force his and Boras' hand and bring down their demand a bit. I doubt Hochevar would want to sit by for another year without a contract.

2006-05-30 14:08:24
11.   natepurcell
7

hes not going to fall. the M's really like him with their #5 pick.

2006-05-30 14:10:45
12.   natepurcell
apparently, we signed two Drat and Follows:

LHP Schuyler Tripp and 3B Brian Mathews.

2006-05-30 14:10:50
13.   Humma Kavula
5 9 I remember that, too. He's not making it up... I'll try to find a link.
2006-05-30 14:10:51
14.   Jon Weisman
7 - He won't fall far enough to make the question pertinent, but my guess is that if he were still out there in the third round, the Dodgers would consider him.
2006-05-30 14:11:54
15.   Humma Kavula
5 9

Dodgers | Gagne serves suspension
Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:31:10 -0700

The Orange County Register's Bill Plunkett reports Los Angeles Dodgers CL Eric Gagne dropped his appeal of his two-game suspension and fine held over from last April and began serving it immediately. Gagne had an MRI on his elbow to monitor the healing from his surgery in June. Gagne emphasized that the MRI was "pre-scheduled" for the first available opportunity after the regular season started and was not prompted by any new development with Gagne's elbow. The MRI was clean.

2006-05-30 14:12:28
16.   natepurcell
from BA

*the Dodgers signed two draft-and-follows, lefthander Schuyler Tripp and third baseman Brian Mathews. Tripp signed for a $15,000 bonus despite dropping out of Indian Hills (Iowa) CC this spring. He showed enough velocity and arm strength to merit signing while pitching at Perfect Game USA's pre-draft showcase in his native Iowa.

2006-05-30 14:12:41
17.   natepurcell
from BA

the Dodgers signed two draft-and-follows, lefthander Schuyler Tripp and third baseman Brian Mathews. Tripp signed for a $15,000 bonus despite dropping out of Indian Hills (Iowa) CC this spring. He showed enough velocity and arm strength to merit signing while pitching at Perfect Game USA's pre-draft showcase in his native Iowa.

2006-05-30 14:12:41
18.   Humma Kavula
Should have posted the link, too:

http://kffl.com/player/5012/mlb

2006-05-30 14:14:05
19.   ToyCannon
Crawford has had a wrist injury that is finally healed and now the power is returning that he was showing last year. You need to consider his age when looking at his numbers. At the age of 22 he was more advanced then Bonds. At the age of 23 Barry started to develop his power but he only had an OPS of 820 compared to Crawfords 800. At the age of 24 Barry took off but then he floundered again at the age of 26 and posted a sub 800 OPS. Crawford is already a very good player at the age of 23, by the time he's 28 I expect he will be one of the top players in baseball. You can't just look at stats without putting them into context. Take a look at what other 22/23 year full time players have posted with 650 at bats. His 800 OPS at the age of 23 is solid. I will be shocked if he doesn't have a few 900 OPS in his career. He is not some speedy twig like Pierre or Lofton, this guy is built like a running back and his power will surely develop to go along with his insane speed. The only thing lacking in his game is plate discipline. I'd love to have Crawford, I'd stick him in CF and not worry about the position for 10 years.
2006-05-30 14:17:52
20.   Jon Weisman
15, 18 -

Dodger roster on April 4-5:

Pitchers (12): Perez, Carter, Brazoban, Osoria, Hamulack, Baez, Kuo, Lowe, Penny, Saito, Seo, Tomko

Players (13): Furcal, Cruz, Drew, Kent, Martinez, Saenz, Loney, Navarro, Mueller, Alomar, Repko, Ledee, Ross

I know it was written that Gagne would serve the suspension, but he was not activated to do so, as far as I can tell.

2006-05-30 14:19:53
21.   bhsportsguy
18 - According to the Dodgers transactions list, when Gagne was put on the 15 day disabled list, it was retroactive to April 1, so he could not have been active for those two days, therefore he must still have the suspension to serve.

This is just an educated guess because I have not seen any official word of his activation.

2006-05-30 14:20:41
22.   das411
19 - TC, as much as I like Crawford and the DRays, that sounds an awful lot like all the talk about "Carlos Beltran as the new Barry Bonds" after one good month in 2004...

8 - You mean Longoria will be better than Ty Wigginton, Russ Branyan, and Sean Burroughs??

2006-05-30 14:20:44
23.   Humma Kavula
20 Ah -- so the report was inaccurate. Now I get it.
2006-05-30 14:21:13
24.   Jon Weisman
What seems to have happened was that the Dodgers planned to have Gagne serve the suspension when his arm was sore in early April but before they realized he needed surgery. Once that became clear, I'm assuming that they didn't want to play shorthanded right then, and gambled that they would be better off being shorthanded as his return neared.

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/343612.html

2006-05-30 14:22:21
25.   Bob Timmermann
21
I think there's the answer.

You can't be both on the DL and serving a suspension.

2006-05-30 14:22:44
26.   Steve
I thought we could not re-draft Hochevar.
2006-05-30 14:25:44
27.   Humma Kavula
20 21 Just to continue this a bit... I recall watching the games in early April and seeing Gagne sit in the dugout and Vin saying he was serving the suspension. Didn't anybody notice at the time that he wasn't on the roster?
2006-05-30 14:26:26
28.   Humma Kavula
27 Never mind -- took too long to type. Thanks for the insights.
2006-05-30 14:28:25
29.   bhsportsguy
On the Hochevar situation, I think once the off-season played out and they had the Angels pick and the first supplemental, the chances of them signing Hochevar was slim not withstanding the botched signing last September.

At this point, I think the Dodgers want to restock their lower system and probably (and I'm sure to the regret of some on this board) look to deal some of the prospects because of both major league needs and that they probably can't keep all of them on their 40 man roster.

I saw a note in Kevin Goldstein's BP column that Edwin Jackson is now pitching in the bullpen, its early yet but neither Tiffany nor Jackson have done anything to raise much yelling about the deal, except for the screaming fans do when Carter came into the game.

Maybe on another off day, say next Thursday after the draft, we can have a discussion about the draft and our recent minor league deals, say starting with the trade for Milton Bradley in 2004. It would be interesting to see the progress or lack of progress of those deals and realize how all of this is crapshoot.

2006-05-30 14:30:19
30.   Vaudeville Villain
19-

I'm not saying Crawford won't become a good player. However, just because his early careeer numbers profile similar to Bonds early years, that does not mean he will turn into Bonds. I'm sure there are many more marginal MLB players who have put up those numbers and not turned into good players.

And considering the delusional Tampa Bay front office, they probably believe that Crawford is worth Guzman, Billingsley, Laroche, Hu, a first and second round pick, a beef and bean burrito, and a nicely written greeting card.

This is an organization that values speed over everything. Remember their hyping of Gathright as the next big thing based solely on his ability to jump over a car or some nonsense?

Crawford is not worth the price unless he turns into a very good player, which I am skeptical will happen.

2006-05-30 14:35:58
31.   ToyCannon
22
I'm not saying that Crawford has a chance to be Barry Bonds, I'm just pointing out that at the same age of 22, Crawford was the better player. By 23 Bonds had already surpassed Crawford. I'm just saying that any 23 year old who posts an 0PS of 800 in 650 at bats should not be taken lightly. He has the skills to become an excellent player. Bill James has him with a 25% chance of getting 3000 hits and a 3% chance of 4000 hits. He only gives 4 players a chance of 4000 hits and they are Arod/Pujols/Jeter. That is select company even if the odds are only 3%.
2006-05-30 14:39:28
32.   Eric Enders
"This is an organization that values speed over everything."
-------

It took me a second to realize you were talking about Tampa Bay, since the same now applies to us too.

2006-05-30 14:41:10
33.   Humma Kavula
30 31

FWIW -- which might be something, maybe not -- here's John Sickels's Crystal Ball on Crawford...

http://tinyurl.com/p5yym

Fair? Wild-eyed enthusiasm? Only time will tell.

2006-05-30 14:41:33
34.   ToyCannon
30
Of course I agree the price for Crawford is probably a price I would not pay. I was strictly responding to your post that you couldn't understand why the Dodgerrs would be interested as though Crawford was just some run of the mill outfielder.

If were going to talk with Tampa then we need to get Upton and stick him in CF. He will be the best player they produce.

2006-05-30 14:42:07
35.   Gen3Blue
I think Gagne may have served his suspension.
I Agree that Hochevar is too young to carry full responsability for some of his confused actions, but I can't say the same for some of the GM's who are stupid or greedy enough to deal with Boras.
2006-05-30 14:42:10
36.   Eric Enders
31 Except in Crawford's case -- unlike those other guys -- his chances at collecting a lot of hits appear to be due mostly to racking up more at-bats than everybody else, thanks to (a) batting leadoff and (b) never walking.
2006-05-30 14:43:54
37.   regfairfield
I'd have no problem getting Crawford if the price was reasonable. He's basically Kenny Lofton, except fifteen years younger and he has power. I also don't think Dodger Stadium would supress his extra base hits, since his speed allows him to create doubles from hits that should be singles. Most importantly, he's 25, so there's still room to improve.

Yes, he has terrible discipline (which at least so far is improving), but as long as he replaces Lofton and we don't try to force him into a leadoff role, I have no problem with Carl Crawford.

2006-05-30 14:44:14
38.   Humma Kavula
36 Right. But 4,000 hits is (are?) still 4,000 hits -- isn't it (aren't they)?
2006-05-30 14:44:54
39.   Eric Enders
Jon, I do think it's legitimate for Dodger fans to be upset at a player who agreed to a contract and then reneged on his word. Youth is not an excuse for everything, and even a 21-year old (who is an adult, BTW) should know better than that.

That said, I think a lot of the distaste for Hochevar among Dodger fans is actually proxy hatred of Boras.

2006-05-30 14:46:11
40.   Jon Weisman
35 - We already went through the suspension discussion. He did not serve it.
2006-05-30 14:48:18
41.   thinkblue0
With all due respect, Jon, I couldn't disagree more. There's a difference between maximizing your earnings and being greedy. He is a complete moron to turn down the 3 mill we offered him because no one else is going to offer him that.

It's also his own fault for hiring Boras in the first place. That guy is a cancer and is continually screwing over his clients. Is Jeff Weaver going to be happy next year when he commands probably half of what the Dodgers offered this offseason?

I also don't buy the argument that he's 21 years old and naive. The dodgers plunked three million bucks at the table and he should have jumped at it...remember, Boras works for HIM not the other way around. When I played baseball in college, if someone threw down that kind of cash I would have taken it without a second thought...really, how many times in your life are you guaranteed three million dollars? Not many...and it's not as if the Dodgers offer was absurdly low either....

2006-05-30 14:48:39
42.   Sam DC
Reports have Clemens going back to Houston. I saw it yahoo.com.
2006-05-30 14:48:45
43.   ToyCannon
36
Except your expecting a 23 year old to not grow as a hitter. Sickels expects his walk rate to increase and still garner 3000 hits. Jeter went from 48 walks at the age of 22 to 91 walks at the age of 25.
2006-05-30 14:51:32
44.   thinkblue0
42-

drafting him the 13th round of my fantasy draft is going to turn out to be a really key pick...

2006-05-30 14:51:38
45.   Eric Enders
Crawford hasn't reached the level of Lofton's prime yet because he doesn't have the plate discipline Lofton did, nor are his batting averages as high.

I tend to think of Crawford's upside as Lou Brock except with half as many steals. Whether that equals a star player is, I guess, in the eye of the beholder.

Crawford's 10 most similar players to this point in his career:

Claudell Washington (947)
Whitey Lockman (937)
Terry Puhl (934)
Roberto Clemente (928) *
Carlos May (924)
Fred Merkle (924)
Les Mann (923)
Rickey Henderson (922)
Dick Hoblitzel (922)
Vic Saier (918)

Which I guess means 20 years from now we will either be memorializing his untimely death in a relief mission to Iraq, or lamenting the Crawford Boner.

2006-05-30 14:54:23
46.   ToyCannon
41
I can't imagine Seattle wasting their 6th pick unless they are going to meet the Boras demand of 4 million so he may have won this battle.

If this was just about a guy getting drafted and holding out for 4 million and not getting it that would be one thing. But his bizarre actions with his best friend, the other agent, Boras, the accusations afterwards that seemed to be unjustified left the whole thing with a bad smell. The only thing that bothers me is that we knew when we drafted him that he wanted 4 mill and major league deal. If we weren't going to offer him that, then why take a chance and waste a 1st round sandwich pick on him?

2006-05-30 14:57:03
47.   thinkblue0
46-

that I'll agree with. I guess White probably thought 4 mill was the high end, and that they'd take a little less a la Jered Weaver.

He took a calculated risk and it failed...oh well, lesson as always is: don't deal with Boras unless it's absolutely necessary.

Hopefully this year we can wrangle a good pitcher or two out of the draft...

2006-05-30 14:57:17
48.   Marty
Anything that predicts 3000 hits for a player currently in the minors has to be read for entertainment purposes only, right? This just seems to be too much of a flyer to be taken seriously.
2006-05-30 14:57:42
49.   Jon Weisman
41 -

Paragraph 1: We're not disagreeing, except with your harsh word choice. I said up top I think he's taking a huge risk.

Paragraph 2: You're overstating the case against Scott Boras. For every Weaver, there's a J.D. Drew. There's Adrian Beltre. That being said, again, Hochevar has to live with the consequences of his choice. Where are we disagreeing? All you're saying in this paragraph is that the hiring of Boras was self-defeating - which I'm not really arguing against.

Paragraph 3: Again, I agree with you. I don't understand why he's turning down all that money other than that Boras is telling him he can get more.

Maximizing your earnings vs. being greedy is just semantics. What you really seem to be saying is that Hochevar is being stupid - again, I'm not arguing that.

Is that stupidity what's angering you?

2006-05-30 14:58:35
50.   Gen3Blue
Accepted. You don't think Hochevar will fall to 3rd round in this years weak draft and I agree. Wouldn't he have to fall to 4th anyway. We don't have a third round pick do we?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-05-30 14:58:45
51.   ToyCannon
45
Kenny Lofton was still learning how to play the game in the minors while Crawford was toiling in the Majors. Lofton didn't hit the major full time until he was 25. By the time Carl hits 25 he will have been in the majors 3 1/2 seasons.

That is two (Clemente, Ricky) of the greatest players to ever play the game out of 10. So a 20% chance to be a HOF and not just a HOF but one of the best is not something you'd gamble on?

2006-05-30 15:00:18
52.   ToyCannon
48
Don't know what your talking about. Crawford has already amassed over 650 hits in the major leagues before his 25th birthday.
2006-05-30 15:01:40
53.   Eric Enders
51 Well, the converse is, there's an 80% chance that you'll trade the future of your franchise for somebody like Vic Saier.
2006-05-30 15:01:50
54.   Uncle Miltie
I have a huge mancrush on Carl Crawford, so don't take everything I write in this post seriously. First off all, Crawford is not a weak speed guy as ToyCannon noted. He is 6'2 220, much bigger than he looks when you first see him. The guy is oozing with potential and his power is just starting to develop. Someone else brought up the wrist injury- he played the first month/month and a half with this injury which seemed to sap him of a lot of his power. Players like Crawford don't come aren't usually available on the trading block, especially at his age. This is a rare opportunity to trade for a young player who is a locked up for a while and hasn't even entered the prime of his career. In Crawford, we could be trading for a future batting champ and guy who consistently produces 30/40 seasons. He is miscast as a leadoff hitter because of his great speed. The perfect spot in the batting order for him is 5th or 6th, where he can run wild with no great hitters hitting behind him and he'll also have an opportunity to drive in a lot of runs. I've been watching Crawford since he was called up by the D-Rays in 2002 and he's shown an enormous amount of improvement. I guess I could understand them wanting to cash in on Crawford with a soon-to-be full outfield, but I'd rather have him than the very overrated Rocco Baldelli.

Here is what Ned's first offer should look like:
Guzman, Navarro and Izturis

Does this offer get it done?

37- he is not basically Kenny Lofton. They are somewhat different players. Kenny has better plate discipline, but Crawford is a much better defender

If were going to talk with Tampa then we need to get Upton and stick him in CF. He will be the best player they produce.
I've been saying this for the past year, but I don't think it will happen. My mancrush for Bossman is even bigger than the one I have for Crawford.

2006-05-30 15:02:10
55.   thinkblue0
Is that stupidity what's angering you?

haha..I guess so. It's really not even so much that we didn't sign him, it's that the guy can be so stupid to turn down that kind of money.

I'm also doubly biased against Boras because he works in the same building as one of my best friend's dad....and he's the biggest jerk on the planet.

You're absolutely right about guys like Beltre and Drew but at least they've played at the major league level. This is a really young kid with ZERO MLB experience and he was offered THREE million dollars....if turning that down isn't stupid, then I don't know wha t is and THAT'S what's getting under my skin.

2006-05-30 15:02:35
56.   ToyCannon
I'm tired of arguing for a player that the Dodgers have no chance of trading for. Uncle Miltie can take up the rest of the arguements.
2006-05-30 15:03:00
57.   Jacob L
45 Wow, what a mixed bag!

Imagine someone saying "We have the chance to snatch up the next Clemente in his prime!" Now imagnie someone saying "We can get the next Terry Puhl!"

I'm not opposed to Crawford per se, but his profile (speedy outfielder with limited/developing on-base skills and power) is somewhat troubling if he's the apple of Ned's eye. Not nearly as troubling as either "old and formerly speedy outfielder" or "middling veteran refief pitcher," but still.

2006-05-30 15:05:30
58.   Steve
I guess there is one way we could redraft Hochevar:

"A player who is drafted and does not sign with the Club that selected him may be drafted again at a future year's Draft, so long as the player is eligible for that year's Draft. A Club may not select a player again in a subsequent year, unless the player has consented to the re-selection."

2006-05-30 15:06:08
59.   Bob Timmermann
42
Sam,
The Clemens report seems to be in doubt.

http://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/388146.html

2006-05-30 15:09:05
60.   Linkmeister
45 Well, what the heck. The Dodgers missed Clemente the first time around, so why do it again? ;)

I'm debating whether to buy the new Clemente bio by David Marannis or get it at the library.

2006-05-30 15:09:43
61.   Eric Enders
57 That's an important point in your second paragraph. Colletti going after Crawford is bad, but not as bad as going after a soon-to-be-broken-down power hitter (a la Brian Sabean) or a crappy relief pitcher (a la Ed Wade).
2006-05-30 15:10:53
62.   Eric Enders
59
"Sam,
The Clemens"

Soon the Griddle posts will be signed

"Bob,
The Timmermann"

2006-05-30 15:11:17
63.   gpellamjr
Why all the Crawford talk? I missed the beginning of this. Is there a serious rumor about a potential trade?
2006-05-30 15:11:45
64.   Eric Enders
More like a potential rumor about a serious trade.
2006-05-30 15:13:40
65.   Sam DC
62 Well, we know the Mets new outfielder is going by

"Lastings,
The Milledge"

2006-05-30 15:15:03
66.   Eric Enders
As if his name needed to become even more Dickensian.
2006-05-30 15:17:21
67.   ToyCannon
I hope the Dodgers don't trade for Crawford because they have become my 2nd favorite team and I hope to see them have a future like my Clippers did and they will need Crawford to make that happen. Once they figure things out and put Bossman, D Young, and Dukes together with Gomes, Baldelli, Cantu they will have a powerfull offense to go along with a pitching staff that will consist of Kazmir, Neiman, W Davis. 2008 will be the year they replicate the Clipper success story.
2006-05-30 15:18:52
68.   Jacob L
61 Lets cut to the chase. We've got plenty of crappy relievers we could trade for Carl Crawford. I'm not sure we've got a power hitter, even of the broken down variety (Jayson Werth?!?).
2006-05-30 15:19:03
69.   Gen3Blue
I've said we are in a position to make no trade unless it is ridiculous.
However I would consider Uncs trade of Navarro,Iszy,and Guzman for Upton and Crawford. Just consider, mind you.
2006-05-30 15:21:20
70.   underdog
Sigh. Why does TBS only broadcast one of the 3 Dodgers-Braves games this week? For those of us outside LA, this is a bummer. Oh well, at least I could watch yesterday's game, since ESPN thought the paintball championships were more important than baseball.

67 You meant the Devil Rays are your second favorite team, I take it... Some good young players, definitely. Now if they could only play in a different location. Tropicana Field is the worst stadium in baseball, in a weird location.

2006-05-30 15:23:03
71.   Eric Enders
67 Did you really mean to call the Dodgers your second-favorite team?

We have a heretic in the house!

2006-05-30 15:23:40
72.   jujibee
Does anyone kow if the Dodgers explored any trade options with Hovhevar. If he is appealing to a club that would sign him knowing what they have to pay to get him signed, isn't it fair to say that they want Hoch pretty bad. Why then did they not make a deal with the Dodgers to sign him, lock him up, and trade their draft pick and cash for Hoch? I look at the mess and just see Boras screwing over another one of his clients, but Luke did everything to himself. At 21 it's fair to say that he knew right from wrong, and had a basic knowledge of business ethics. This mess has everything to do with him acting like a spoiled brat and nothing to do with advancement of his career. He has to see what happens to players like Bradley, who have poor team attitudes and "all about me" behavior.
2006-05-30 15:24:42
73.   Bob Timmermann
I wish understood the jokes in 59 62 and 65
2006-05-30 15:25:06
74.   JoeyP
I'm not saying that Crawford has a chance to be Barry Bonds, I'm just pointing out that at the same age of 22, Crawford was the better player.

I got another.

"I'm not saying that has a chance to be Barry Bonds, I'm just pointing out that at the same age of 22, was the better player."

I'm not sure what is so special about a player that doesnt walk or hit for much power. Why give up top prospects for him? Willy Aybar has started his career on a better pace than Carl Crawford has. When does Aybar get the "could be Joe Morgan" treatment?

2006-05-30 15:25:17
75.   Eric Enders
72 You can't trade a draft pick until a year after he signs.
2006-05-30 15:26:57
76.   Eric Enders
74 So every time Willy Aybar comes on the telly, I'm going to have an overpowering impulse to turn it off?
2006-05-30 15:27:54
77.   Eric Enders
73 It wasn't a joke exactly, just noting the Twainlike convergence of names.
2006-05-30 15:27:56
78.   JoeyP
74. It was supposed to say: I'm not saying that "Aybar" has a chance to be Barry Bonds, I'm just pointing out that at the same age of 22, "Aybar"* was the better player.

I think as a whole age comps are meaningless because the eras are different. Experience curves mean more than just using a player's age, because judging a player based on experience can show a reasonable tract of improvement (or none).

2006-05-30 15:27:58
79.   D4P
Maximizing your earnings vs. being greedy is just semantics

A bit off-topic, but this claim brings to mind a question I've long pondered.

Is "profit motive" merely a euphemism for "greed," or is it something different?

2006-05-30 15:28:46
80.   Bob Timmermann
77

I get it now. I need to get away from my deconstructionist tendencies.

2006-05-30 15:29:06
81.   ToyCannon
One last fling. According to the Hardball Times JD Drew currently has a RC/G of 6.5. Most would agree that JD is having a decent but not great season. Carl Crawford is 7.3 and that is with him recovering from his injured wrist.

I tried to make a bet at the beginning of the year that Nomar would post a > 800 OPS with the naysayers. No one took me up on the bet. I would be more then willing to do the same Dodger game beer bet that Carl Crawford will end the season with a higher RC/G then JD Drew in 2006. Course be aware that even Kenny Lofton has a higher RC/G then JD Drew at this point in the season. Evidently, speed does matter when it comes to creating runs.

2006-05-30 15:29:09
82.   JoeyP
So every time Willy Aybar comes on the telly, I'm going to have an overpowering impulse to turn it off?

Only if he's traded.

2006-05-30 15:30:26
83.   Jon Weisman
Inside the Dodgers says:

Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF
Nomar, 1B
Drew, RF
Aybar, 3B
Ethier, LF
Martinez, 2B
Martin, C
Sele, P

2006-05-30 15:31:22
84.   Eric Enders
So much for looking forward to watching The Bison tonight.
2006-05-30 15:32:51
85.   Uncle Miltie
However I would consider Uncs trade of Navarro,Iszy,and Guzman for Upton and Crawford
It was for Crawford only. No way the D-rays would also give up Upton.

I hope the Dodgers don't trade for Crawford because they have become my 2nd favorite team and I hope to see them have a future like my Clippers did and they will need Crawford to make that happen.
I like the D-rays also, but it's not like we're ripping them off. Delmon Young is going to be an MVP candidate if he pans out and if he can control his temper, Dukes is going to be a stud. Navarro is a pretty underrated catcher and he's very young, so there's a lot of room for development. Even if Guzman only becomes the next Dean Palmer (offensively) with a little bit higher average, he should be a huge improvement on what the D-rays have been throwing out there at 3B (Alex Gonzalez? Alex Gonzalez!)

Does this offer get it done?

37- he is not basically Kenny Lofton. They are somewhat different players. Kenny has better plate discipline, but Crawford is a much better defender

If were going to talk with Tampa then we need to get Upton and stick him in CF. He will be the best player they produce.
I've been saying this for the past year, but I don't think it will happen. My mancrush for Bossman is even bigger than the one I have for Crawford.

This could be their team in 2 years:
1. Baldelli LF (the only hitter that I don't like in the lineup)
2. Upton 2B
3. Young RF
4. Gomes DH
5. Dukes CF
6. Guzman 3B
7. Bankston 1B
8. Navarro C
9. Izturis SS

2006-05-30 15:35:36
86.   Eric Enders
85 Which Alex Gonzalez is that? The Bad Alex Gonzalez or the Worse Alex Gonzalez?
2006-05-30 15:36:14
87.   Uncle Miltie
My old post just combined with my new post. Here's what I should have written.

However I would consider Uncs trade of Navarro,Iszy,and Guzman for Upton and Crawford
It was for Crawford only. No way the D-rays would also give up Upton.

This could be their team in 2 years:
1. Baldelli LF (the only hitter that I don't like in the lineup)
2. Upton 2B
3. Young RF
4. Gomes DH
5. Dukes CF
6. Guzman 3B
7. Cantu 1B (not Bankston)
8. Navarro C
9. Izturis SS

2006-05-30 15:37:30
88.   Uncle Miltie
86- the one who just retired. The one who was a poor hitting shortstop, so the D-rays decided to sign him and play him at 3B
2006-05-30 15:38:00
89.   Bob Timmermann
There's only one Alex Gonzalez left. The Boston one.
2006-05-30 15:39:20
90.   Steve
What?! No Gathright?!
2006-05-30 15:40:23
91.   Eric Enders
"The one who was a poor hitting shortstop"
--

I'm afraid you've got to be more specific than that.

Actually, looking it up, that's the Bad Alex Gonzalez. The Worse Alex Gonzalez still plays for Boston.

2006-05-30 15:43:21
92.   Eric Enders
The Alex Gonzalez confusion reminds me: A friend of mine went to a high school game the other day in which Mike Marshall The Hitter, Jr., was playing. Bottom line is, don't hold your breath for a second generation, unless big, slow, singles-hitting outfielders are your thing.
2006-05-30 15:47:51
93.   ToyCannon
The Worse Alex Gonzalez will probably end up with another ring as the starting SS for the Marlins and now the Red Sox. Some guys are just in the right place at the right time and Ernie Banks just shakes his head.
2006-05-30 15:49:24
94.   Marty
52 Ahh, nevermind then. I have to admit I don't follow The Devil Rays much at all.

Boy, you go to one little meeting and all of a sudden, you are 40 posts behind.

2006-05-30 15:56:55
95.   Eric Enders
I don't know if this was discussed in a previous thread but the Royals are considering drafting Hochevar with the #1 overall pick

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/14695819.htm

2006-05-30 15:59:28
96.   Uncle Miltie
83- no Crawford yet! :(
2006-05-30 16:08:58
97.   Andrew Shimmin
How stable are the baseball-reference player comparisons? Do they have any much predictive value, or are they really only good for use in retrospect?
2006-05-30 16:10:36
98.   Gen3Blue
72 Or he might see that Borsas' "all about me guys", if they also are frail and play sparingly, are considered Gods and given contracts like LA gives Drew.
2006-05-30 16:13:35
99.   ToyCannon
95
Ha Ha, that would be great. They deserve each other, greed and idiocy meet.

Still hoping that Lincecrum falls to us and that if he does we take him.

2006-05-30 16:16:51
100.   Eric Enders
97 They're essentially nothing more than an escapist amusement since the statistics that are compared are not adjusted for ballpark or era.

For years I've been wishing someone would come up with a version of the formula that would do that.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-05-30 16:20:35
101.   fan 4 40 plus
5 915

It was initially reported that Gagne was allowed to serve the suspension in the Dodgers' second and third games this year, but he then was placed on the disabled list, retroactive to April 1.

"He can't serve on two lists," assistant general manager Kim Ng said on Tuesday. "It's the right thing to do."

2006-05-30 16:21:16
102.   fan 4 40 plus
5 9 15

It was initially reported that Gagne was allowed to serve the suspension in the Dodgers' second and third games this year, but he then was placed on the disabled list, retroactive to April 1.

"He can't serve on two lists," assistant general manager Kim Ng said on Tuesday. "It's the right thing to do."

2006-05-30 16:21:38
103.   towerofpower
so how legit are these d-rays rumors? last i heard aubrey huff was the only dray on the block, as the drays plan on putting cantu on 3rd and moving upton to 2nd
2006-05-30 16:23:06
104.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
97 - Those comparisons are quite useless.
Example: Adrian Beltre's top comp through age 26 is... Ron Santo? Check their OPS+ numbers and you'll see the folly.
2006-05-30 16:31:00
105.   towerofpower
actually they already moved upton to 2nd, so it would seem that the move by cantu is inevitable
2006-05-30 16:31:37
106.   regfairfield
Crawford's comparables according to PECOTA:

Willie Davis
Darin Erstad
Willie Wilson
Carlos Beltran
Johnny Damon
Christian Guzman
Lloyd Moseby
Vada Pinson
Marquis Grissom
Bobby Tolan
Ray Lankford
Terry Puhl
Corey Patterson
Garry Templeton
Richie Ashburn

2006-05-30 16:32:31
107.   JoeyP
Comping guys from different eras is really ridiculous.
2006-05-30 16:33:53
108.   Eric Enders
107 I couldn't disagree more. If you do it right, it can be both entertaining and enlightening.
2006-05-30 16:39:34
109.   sanchez101
other than the fact that Ken Rosenthal thinks its a good idea, what makes people think that a Crawford deal is even possible?
2006-05-30 16:42:04
110.   FirstMohican
If I was the DRays I'd ask for Billingsley.
2006-05-30 16:43:58
111.   Humma Kavula
109 Who's to say it isn't possible?
2006-05-30 16:45:52
112.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
107 - It's ridiculous when not making adjustments for era, league, park, etc. - which is far more work then just holding up two sets of numbers against each other.
2006-05-30 16:48:24
113.   FirstMohican
109 - I'd assume that he didn't pull the Dodgers name out of a hat. I think either he figures the Dodgers need (present and future)outfield help and they like speed, or there're some rumors about the Dodgers.
2006-05-30 16:49:24
114.   ToyCannon
It is to close to June for Sele to escape this start with his undefeated season intact.

Could this be the week that our season teeters? Penny with shoulder problems
Sele due to meltdown
Seo losing control
Billingsly slowing down in AAA

Can OP ride to the rescue or is this all just a figment of my imagination?

2006-05-30 16:50:02
115.   Andrew Shimmin
Great, great play for Furcal. His Rate2 is starting to come up, too. It's only 89, but it was 80 a couple of weeks ago.
2006-05-30 16:51:05
116.   FirstMohican
I can't imagine Odalis coming to the rescue. I can't imagine how anyone could imagine that.
2006-05-30 16:52:13
117.   underdog
So one report has Clemens officially signing with the Astros (for an Astro-nomical amount of money) and another says no confirmation yet.

If anyone cares.
That sounded like a great play by Furcal, and Garciaparra, as much as I can tell from the mostly incoherent mouth of Rick Monday.

2006-05-30 16:52:29
118.   D4P
I can't imagine Odalis coming to the rescue.

Unless Kobayashi was stuck on the 49th hot dog or something.

2006-05-30 16:54:09
119.   sanchez101
111. so, no one
2006-05-30 16:54:36
120.   underdog
Why do I have a bad (but realistic) feeling tha t the laws of average are to collide here today, regarding both starting pitchers?
2006-05-30 16:55:07
121.   JoeyP
Forget Carl Crawford.
Wait till Andruw Jones is a free agent and sign him for CF. (I think is after next season).
2006-05-30 16:56:29
122.   FirstMohican
Was there a play at the plate?
2006-05-30 16:57:19
123.   JoeyP
LaRoche just missed that one.
2006-05-30 16:57:36
124.   Jon Weisman
120 - I imagine we'll be saying that every start with Sele until it happens. It almost goes without saying.
2006-05-30 16:59:49
125.   Uncle Miltie
121- talk about a guy who has become an average defender. If not for his defensive reputation, Jones would be playing LF now. His defense has really gone downhill and a lot of it has to do with him bulking up so much. I can't believe that he's only 29 years old. I'd expect him to finish his career out in Atlanta unless the Yankees want him (a definite possibility)
2006-05-30 17:01:27
126.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
120, 124 - Think of it this way: At least we're not watching a once-good pitcher take a beating every start, as we fans say "Maybe he'll turn it around this time."
2006-05-30 17:03:00
127.   underdog
124 True, I may have even literally said it last time. But this time I also feel like Sosa is due for a win, being better than his Jeff Weaver-ish record.

125 Um, as if on cue... nice catch by Jones on Aybar's ball?

2006-05-30 17:04:16
128.   regfairfield
127 Sosa deserves everything he gets this year thanks to his amazing record despite terrible perhiprials last year.
2006-05-30 17:05:48
129.   JoeyP
Francoeur is quite amusing.
215AB's 3BB 41Ks

Should he not be in the minors?

2006-05-30 17:07:05
130.   regfairfield
129 He doubled his walk rate after only 100 at bats. If that's not improvement, I don't know what is.
2006-05-30 17:08:12
131.   JoeyP
He's also 0-5 in SB's attempts. Maybe he's going for Robles record last year.
2006-05-30 17:08:18
132.   Bob Timmermann
The Braves accept Francouer for the player he is. He's never walked much at any level.

I think it all stemmed from a traumatic experience in T-ball when the other kids laughed at him when he tried to draw a walk.

2006-05-30 17:08:42
133.   Uncle Miltie
So how about Fookie's defense? Too great plays in 1 inning. Also a nice catch by Drew.
2006-05-30 17:09:18
134.   Uncle Miltie
*Two
2006-05-30 17:10:29
135.   JoeyP
Francoeur will be the caucasian Corey Patterson.
2006-05-30 17:17:40
136.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
From Newsday:
Roger Clemens will take the mound once again. And he's not straying far from home.
Newsday has learned that Clemens, 43, has agreed to terms with the Houston Astros, the team for which he pitched each of the last two seasons. The seven-time Cy Young Award winner, who could be pitching in the major leagues by the end of June, will earn somewhere between $3.5 million and $4 million per month, netting him roughly $12 million for about a half-season's work.
An announcement will likely come this week.
2006-05-30 17:17:57
137.   D4P
Barry just wants to be loved. Is that so wrong?

http://tinyurl.com/pgtuz

2006-05-30 17:19:21
138.   Bob Timmermann
136

But what is the truth?
http://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/388146.html

2006-05-30 17:19:34
139.   blue22
regfairfield - I noticed that the rate2 figures were finally up for Russ Martin (looking back to your defensive breakdown last week, which I found fascinating by the way. Go LII!)

Russ checks in at a cool 127.

Dioner is at 82 this year.

Somewhere between 82 and 127 is an accurate figure for both players. I also think that both players rates are closer to each other than their small samples from this year might suggest.

2006-05-30 17:21:51
140.   regfairfield
139 Thanks.

Ethier currently sits at 112, for anyone interested.

2006-05-30 17:24:28
141.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
138 - Whoops. Sorry about the repeat, guru of the griddle.
2006-05-30 17:26:12
142.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Rate2 figures are posted where?
2006-05-30 17:29:21
143.   regfairfield
Baseball Prospectus in the DT cards.
2006-05-30 17:30:58
144.   underdog
Why all the Francoeur-bashing? Didn't you all see the Delta ad on TBS yesterday with Francoeur and the Danish kid who loves him and the ball that reaches across the ocean to Denmark, where many Braves fans apparently reside. Francoeur hits autographed balls across oceans! You can't walk across oceans!
2006-05-30 17:31:41
145.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Thanks.
2006-05-30 17:39:59
146.   Andrew Shimmin
Is it okay to boo Steve Lyons?
2006-05-30 17:40:44
147.   Bob Timmermann
It's not just OK, it's mandatory!
2006-05-30 17:40:49
148.   Uncle Miltie
Bad call by the umpire, Wilber should have walked there
2006-05-30 17:42:20
149.   underdog
Argh, so much for Alay Soler. Feh! Damn Diamondbacks... {mutter}...
2006-05-30 17:43:00
150.   underdog
WOO HOO!

That was the worst home run call ever by Rick Monday, and that's saying alot.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-05-30 17:43:04
151.   D4P
"Eth" "Ee" "Ay"
"Eth" "Ee" "Ay"
2006-05-30 17:43:04
152.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Raja Bell is gonna give it a shot for the Suns tonight.
2006-05-30 17:43:09
153.   Jon Weisman
That was a towering drive. If there had been people on a tower, they would have said, that's as high as we are!
2006-05-30 17:43:10
154.   Steve
Alay Soler is Cuban for Danys Baez.

Meanwhile, my future Hall-of-Fame left fielder rocks.

2006-05-30 17:43:32
155.   Bob Timmermann
151
You're just going to encourage Jon to keep mispronouncing his name!
2006-05-30 17:43:58
156.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
150 - Details?
2006-05-30 17:44:29
157.   Marty
One thing I have to give Flanders. That was a great trade for Ethier.
2006-05-30 17:45:03
158.   underdog
153 Towering, you could have fooled Rick Monday. In fact, it did fool Rick Monday. I think he actually took a brief nap before the ball officially left the playing field.
2006-05-30 17:45:11
159.   natepurcell
light tower power!
2006-05-30 17:45:18
160.   ddger
Ethier's power has been surprising so far. I didn't think he had this much power. Maybe, he could eventually end up hitting 25 to 30 a year.
2006-05-30 17:45:49
161.   KAYVMON
Aybar, Ethier. Who are these guys? In any case, Aybar should get some credit for his at-bat. That was partly responsible for Ethier getting a good pitch to hit.
2006-05-30 17:46:05
162.   Uncle Miltie
That was a bomb by Ethier- it should have been a 3 run homer. The at bats by Drew and Wilber really helped wear down Sosa.
2006-05-30 17:46:38
163.   underdog
156 Besides the above, I believe his call was something like this, "Ethier hits it high. Francoeur goes back. He's still going back. It's... Francoeur's at the wall... {zzzzzz} And, it's out of here."

Note the "." at the end of the sentence. That's important.

2006-05-30 17:47:10
164.   bhsportsguy
150 - Seriously, I think after being in ballparks during all of your adult life, you should recognize a home run chance when you see it.

This article by Ken Rosenthal was up a few days ago, so it was probably reported already but a nice puff piece on the Dodger front office, Rosenthal does acknowledge that Depo may have done many of the same moves but Depo's "style" hindered him. At least that was my interpretation.

http://tinyurl.com/r9ceo

2006-05-30 17:47:12
165.   King of the Hobos
Brent Leach is having quite the day. After pitching 4 innings at Columbus, he is now relieving Alberto Bastardo (who was terrible) in Vero. Both games started at the same time. I have a feeling MiLB.com has messed up somewhere
2006-05-30 17:48:34
166.   underdog
And Monday just repeated the exact same call for LaRoche's home run.

Argh.

2006-05-30 17:48:44
167.   bhsportsguy
Oh oh, only second home run against Sele, the other one was by Vlad. Sounds like jetstream to left center today.
2006-05-30 17:48:48
168.   regfairfield
Hey, Adam LaRoche hits another home run against us.
2006-05-30 17:49:52
169.   Marty
Apparently, the Dodgers are the cure for LaRoche's ADD.
2006-05-30 17:49:56
170.   bhsportsguy
Bastardo was a minor league Rule 5 pick up, he seems to be someone who has some very good numbers but maybe can't go thru the line up twice.
2006-05-30 17:50:35
171.   Gen3Blue
O.K. just as long as Andy has the same power genes or better. Andy has a great eys an plenty of time to become a good Mleaguer.
with his arm and instinct I love the view about two years out.
2006-05-30 17:50:56
172.   natepurcell
all of Laroche's homerun look like pop flies.
2006-05-30 17:51:07
173.   Bob Timmermann
I really wish someone would tell Sele that the rulebook specifically prohibits throwing a "Ritalin ball".
2006-05-30 17:52:02
174.   Jon Weisman
164 - http://tinyurl.com/mh2uf
2006-05-30 17:52:20
175.   ddger
Hope Sele can get us at least 5 innings. Our starters have been knocked out real early this road trip except for Lowe.

I think Saito might be able to go 2 if needed tonight since Grady likes to use 2 innings for a relief pitcher lately.

2006-05-30 17:52:25
176.   RELX
The infield graphic on ESPN Gamecast has Ramon Martinez catching and no one playing second for the Dodgers. Unless it is some sort of ingenius shift, with Martin in the stands?
2006-05-30 17:52:34
177.   Gen3Blue
172 which Laroche is that?
2006-05-30 17:54:31
178.   Uncle Miltie
I didn't think Laroche's HR was gone. It looked like Ethier would be able to catch it at the wall.
2006-05-30 17:54:34
179.   JoeyP
Martin's offensive line is just about identical to Navarro's now.
2006-05-30 17:55:11
180.   Marty
Grabowski principle?
2006-05-30 17:55:21
181.   regfairfield
My fault, I called him up from the minors on my fantasy team.
2006-05-30 17:55:21
182.   gpellamjr
Are we ever going to see this sexy lineup: Furcal/Aybar/Nomar/Drew/Kent/Kemp/Ethier/Martin?
2006-05-30 17:55:47
183.   underdog
Ah okay, I'll cut Monday some slack then.

Meanwhile, there must be a jet stream, since Sele just doubled.

2006-05-30 17:56:03
184.   Bob Timmermann
174
That was a quintessential BTF thread.
2006-05-30 17:58:50
185.   JoeyP
That was lucky!
2006-05-30 18:00:47
186.   JoeyP
Drew and Martin are the only players in the Dodgers lineup not hitting at least .308 in May.
2006-05-30 18:10:27
187.   bhsportsguy
Love those first pitch swinging ground balls, actually I prefer pop ups but I'll take it.
2006-05-30 18:11:47
188.   das411
GIGANTOR sighting in Phila, once Brett Myers gets through the 8th...
2006-05-30 18:13:16
189.   bill cox
165-Thank you,I was seriously contemplating Leach's ability to defy all natural law and be in too places simultaneously.I was wondering if Billingsley could pitch in LA and Las Vegas at the same time.After all its closer than Columbus to Vero Beach.I hadn't considered it might have been an error.
2006-05-30 18:14:38
190.   Jon Weisman
Either the camera is at a weird angle, or that strike 3 call on Drew was way off.
2006-05-30 18:15:04
191.   Bob Timmermann
There's a Condition Orange Cycle Alert in Detroit.

Pudge Rodriguez needs a double.

The Yankees have reliever starter Aaron Small with Scott Erickson.

2006-05-30 18:18:08
192.   Bob Timmermann
That should have been "relieved" instead of "reliever".
2006-05-30 18:18:22
193.   gpellamjr
190 My sense is that all the close ball/strike calls have gone Atlanta's way. It's getting irritating.
2006-05-30 18:19:09
194.   Marty
{pour_gas_on_fire}
How come talking about a cycle doesn't jinx it, but talking about a no-hitter does?
{/pour_gas_on_fire}
2006-05-30 18:20:02
195.   bhsportsguy
I hate it when you know your starter has about an inning left and he is due up third in the next inning.
2006-05-30 18:21:02
196.   Bob Timmermann
Cycles don't have as much tension as a no-hitter because you don't notice them as much. A no-hitter is constant tension.
2006-05-30 18:21:14
197.   Andrew Shimmin
194- Maybe it does jinx it a little, but cycles don't really matter. No-hitters are sacred.
2006-05-30 18:21:48
198.   Sam DC
Just recovering from a brutal bedtime here, so I may have missed this up above, but in Philly, Starter Tony Armas walked pitcher Brett Myers with the bases loaded (he had previously loaded them by giving up a single, walk, HBP). At that point, he was removed from the game.

Now, after a 1-2-3 inning by Gigantor, including an Abreu K, Frank Robinson will face the brutal decision whether to allow Royce Clayton to lead off the top of the ninth. I was told that Clayton is hitting .333 while batting second, but that certainly seems impossible to me.

2006-05-30 18:21:58
199.   bhsportsguy
The Angels have just traded E. Yan to the Reds for a 5 year minor league right handed pitcher who is pitching in the FSL. They also got some cash.
2006-05-30 18:23:41
200.   Andrew Shimmin
That was Repkorific.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-05-30 18:24:18
201.   Uncle Miltie
The umpire screwed Drew on the same pitch that Aybar should have walked on.

K Loft showing off his gold glove defense turning a flyball into a triple. That was scrappy.

2006-05-30 18:25:54
202.   D4P
No-hitters are sacred.

I still maintain that no-walkers are more impressive, given that "hits" are something pitchers have less control over.

2006-05-30 18:26:26
203.   bhsportsguy
If only the Dodger broadcasters read DT:

YANKEES 8TH: OYLER REPLACED KALINE (PLAYING SS); STANLEY CHANGED
POSITIONS (PLAYING CF); NORTHRUP CHANGED POSITIONS (PLAYING RF);
Gibbs made an out to third; Mantle homered; Famous grooved
fastball for Mantle; Freehan tells Mantle what's coming and the
Mick hits it into the upper deck; Pepitone singled to left;
Robinson made an out to left; Tresh grounded out (first to
pitcher); 1 R, 2 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Yankees 2, Tigers 6.

2006-05-30 18:28:36
204.   Bob Timmermann
202
You must have a shrine built in honor of Bob Tewksbury and Babe Adams up in your home.
2006-05-30 18:29:01
205.   Gen3Blue
Whoa --I just got back- who messed up our lead-Sele? well he was due one and he hasn't done badly.
2006-05-30 18:31:50
206.   bhsportsguy
203- More details Denny McLain won his 31st game that season, I have heard of that grooved pitch before but of course that makes for a great story when your pitcher has just won his 31st game.
2006-05-30 18:35:24
207.   Bob Timmermann
206
Retrosheet has a goof there. Look at the box score of the game and see who the Tigers catcher was that day.

IT WAS NOT BILL FREEHAN.

2006-05-30 18:35:39
208.   Andrew Shimmin
Yanks pull Erickson. Proctor will pitch to Pudge.
2006-05-30 18:36:45
209.   Andrew Shimmin
Anybody watching the Yankee game--Is Proctor trying to hit Pudge?
2006-05-30 18:38:10
210.   Gen3Blue
201 while that is accurate, I think it is relevent that for all our "good sytem" we haven't produced a CF who would have reached that ball in years-except for Repko-who would likely have looked so ridiculous trying to catch it. Thats a ML play, even missing it.
2006-05-30 18:38:15
211.   D4P
204
You must have a shrine built in honor of Bob Tewksbury and Babe Adams up in your home.

It's much too valuable to keep at home...

2006-05-30 18:38:29
212.   Sam DC
What is going on in Pittsburgh? 10-1?
2006-05-30 18:42:15
213.   Uncle Miltie
Does Charley Steiner get a bonus every time he mispronounces a player's name?

Rafael Fur-CAL
Juan En-car-Nation

2006-05-30 18:42:27
214.   Uncle Miltie
We are about to be Baezed.
2006-05-30 18:43:12
215.   natepurcell
Blown Save Baez is in. Glorious!
2006-05-30 18:43:38
216.   gpellamjr
I'll go on record as saying that Baez is useless.
2006-05-30 18:43:40
217.   JoeyP
We've just entered The Baez Zone.
2006-05-30 18:44:22
218.   JoeyP
If Bobby Cox is having Renteria sac bunt, the Dodgers once again deserve to win this game based on sheer principle.
2006-05-30 18:45:21
219.   Steve
It's one of baseball's bizarre ironies that failed "closers" are immediately thrust into higher leverage situations than those they just failed in. Of course, Bobby Cox could always save us with a stupid bunt.

Meanwhile, my favorite use of scare quotes in a long time is D4P's use of them for the word "hits."

2006-05-30 18:45:39
220.   JoeyP
Renteria's hitting .330 with an OBP over .400, and he's facing Danys Baez. And you bunt?
2006-05-30 18:45:42
221.   Gen3Blue
Baez me not. Please. And is Carnation as in instant milk the end of the proper pronunciation.
2006-05-30 18:45:48
222.   overkill94
Wow, we are horrible at rundowns
2006-05-30 18:46:02
223.   natepurcell
what a terrible run down.
2006-05-30 18:46:03
224.   regfairfield
Who do you prounounce Encarnacion, because I think I pronounce it like Steiner.
2006-05-30 18:46:13
225.   Gen3Blue
Almost got two of the buggers. Good Job!
2006-05-30 18:46:28
226.   JoeyP
LOL... half way to being saved.
2006-05-30 18:47:33
227.   JoeyP
I love stupid managers.
2006-05-30 18:47:35
228.   Bob Timmermann
4-5-2-6-5 does it all the time.
2006-05-30 18:47:44
229.   gpellamjr
Wow, Baez is awesome!
2006-05-30 18:48:38
230.   Steve
The Stupid Bunter Principle defeats every other known principle, theory, hypothesis. It may be even stronger than the Grabowski Principle.
2006-05-30 18:49:12
231.   Uncle Miltie
One of the worst rundowns I've seen in a while. Thank you Bobby Cox for bunting with one of your best hitters. I can maybe understand it, if it's the bottom of the ninth inning, but not in that situation.
2006-05-30 18:49:27
232.   Bob Timmermann
Melky Cabrera just needs a homer now for the cycle. But it's the 8th inning and he hasn't hit a homer this year either.
2006-05-30 18:49:29
233.   D4P
213
There's nothing so painful to the ears as listening to Steiner "pronounce" Encarnacion.
2006-05-30 18:49:43
234.   JoeyP
Sosa's thrown 118 pitches and he's still out there?
2006-05-30 18:49:57
235.   Steve
Bobby Cox is always raised as an example of a good manager, but I guarantee you that in every series in at least recent memory, Bobby Cox has been completely out-managed, and that was when Jim Tracy was here.
2006-05-30 18:51:12
236.   JoeyP
Thank you Bobby Cox for bunting with one of your best hitters.

It was his best hitter, at least just counting the first two months.

2006-05-30 18:51:27
237.   bhsportsguy
Buniting in that situation is like not fouling with a 3 point lead at the end of the game, if you take the opposite approach, you risk messing with standard coaching procedure.

Not agreeing but no one is going to write tomorrow that the big mistake of the game was having Renteria bunt.

2006-05-30 18:51:38
238.   Bob Timmermann
Unless Gameday is on the fritz, I believe Jorge Sosa has morphed into Mike Remlinger.
2006-05-30 18:52:54
239.   sanchez101
235. I think it just seemed that way because Tracy always had much better bullpens. Its really amazing how good Gagne made Tracy look, not the other way around as some would have you believe.
2006-05-30 18:52:54
240.   gpellamjr
This umpire is really not calling it both ways.
2006-05-30 18:53:03
241.   Sam DC
JD do!
2006-05-30 18:53:40
242.   D4P
Gameday is also claiming that Nomar bunt grounded out, followed by a double by Drew.
2006-05-30 18:53:52
243.   bhsportsguy
234 - Bobby Cox has not had a reliable bullpen since John Smoltz became a starter again.

I do believe that in today's game, if you can ever shore up innings 7-8-9, you will sleep a lot better. That is why, more and more pitchers are being trained for the bullpen instead of the old days when relievers were always failed starters.

2006-05-30 18:55:00
244.   Sam DC
In comment 34 of the last thread, I linked a USS Marniner deconstruction of a recent game in which Mike Hargrove had his reported best hitter sac bunt 3 times. The game thread comments for that game are pretty amusing too, full of a bunch of utterly horrified Mariners fans. A bit reminiscent of some moments last year around these parts, I will admit.

Though not so smart or funny or thoughtful or cool, of course.

2006-05-30 18:55:03
245.   JoeyP
Not agreeing but no one is going to write tomorrow that the big mistake of the game was having Renteria bunt.

If you're worried about what the MSM thinks, I think the battle is already lost.

2006-05-30 18:56:40
246.   Sam DC
My gameday is denying that Lofton had an at bat in the eighth inning.
2006-05-30 18:56:53
247.   Uncle Miltie
Just another walk for Aybar...
2006-05-30 18:57:35
248.   Bob Timmermann
Lofton's AB was listed in the bottom of the seventh. That messed up everything.
2006-05-30 18:57:36
249.   bhsportsguy
Just so all you gameday followers are properly informed Aybar just walked, Ethier is at the plate.
2006-05-30 18:58:08
250.   D4P
My Gameday is already in the bottom of the 8th, with LaRoche having drawn a walk.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-05-30 18:58:15
251.   JoeyP
Dont you mean LaRoche?
2006-05-30 18:59:07
252.   sanchez101
"eth" "i" "er"
2006-05-30 19:01:20
253.   gpellamjr
Was Aybar's walk the first of the game for LA?
2006-05-30 19:02:38
254.   bhsportsguy
Did Gameday just give Francouer a hit too... I am guessing Gameday will catch up with the pitching change.

Nice ABs by Aybar and Ethier, and I am happy that we did not see Olmedo come up in that situation, probably saving him for the pitcher's spot since we only have the Tomato, Kemp and Alomar on the bench today with Kent sitting out until maybe tomorrow.

2006-05-30 19:02:54
255.   bhsportsguy
253 - yep
2006-05-30 19:03:32
256.   Bob Timmermann
MLB.com, Sportsline, and Yahoo are showing three different realities of this game.

I like Sportsline's the best.

2006-05-30 19:04:25
257.   Sam DC
Um, so what's the score in realworldland?
2006-05-30 19:04:38
258.   JoeyP
Gameday and sportline are at odds with what happened in the top of the 8th.
2006-05-30 19:04:39
259.   sanchez101
ok Martin, put this game away
2006-05-30 19:04:48
260.   Bob Timmermann
The Gameday guy is probably doing a lot of muttering and swearing to himself right now.
2006-05-30 19:05:23
261.   Greg S
More "2-out runner in scoring position" hitting!
Love it!
2006-05-30 19:05:45
262.   Steve
Not agreeing but no one is going to write tomorrow that the big mistake of the game was having Renteria bunt.

That is merely because of the people doing the writing.

2006-05-30 19:06:19
263.   sanchez101
258. what is happening, Ethier and Martinez knocked in runs. 5-3 Dodgers, Martin at the plate, runners at 2nd and 3rd. Yates pitching.
2006-05-30 19:07:34
264.   sanchez101
renteria makes a great play on a martin grounder, saves one, probably two runs.
2006-05-30 19:07:50
265.   Sam DC
Thanks.

Detroit has loaded the bases against Farnsworth no outs. walk single walk.

2006-05-30 19:07:56
266.   King of the Hobos
Martin seems to be doing that every game lately. A sharp, guaranteed run scoring base hit inexplicably caught by the defense.
2006-05-30 19:08:00
267.   JoeyP
This is the 1st time there's been a total disagreement between the three reporting agencies that I can remember.

Is anyone actually watching the game on TV or listening on radio? What has actually happened?

2006-05-30 19:08:45
268.   underdog
Yeah, this is like all the game trackers disappeared into a Bermuda triangle - GameChannel's stuck, GameDay's stuck, SportsLine is less stuck, but has it at 4-3. So it's 5-3 now? Cool.

This is all after mlb audio started crashing all my browsers.

All less painful if we're winning.

2006-05-30 19:08:50
269.   Uncle Miltie
Martin robbed of 2 rbis and a hit. It wasn't hit very which is why Ren-ERROR-ia was able to catch it.
2006-05-30 19:08:50
270.   bhsportsguy
262 - The mistake may have been for a veteran lefthander to pitch to Willy Aybar like he was Prince Albert.
2006-05-30 19:08:52
271.   D4P
Gameday is fixing itself as we speak.
2006-05-30 19:10:45
272.   D4P
Eth-ee-ay is on pace to hit 40 HRs (in 670 ABs).
2006-05-30 19:10:45
273.   underdog
Martinez continues to be a surprisingly good hitter.
2006-05-30 19:13:17
274.   natepurcell
if you want to laught out loud really hard, watch the highlight of troy glaus' homerun from today and focus on Manny in left field.
2006-05-30 19:14:52
275.   Steve
The mistake may have been not DFAing Remlinger months ago. But, no, the mistake was a stupid bunt.
2006-05-30 19:15:11
276.   bhsportsguy
Jeff Weaver better start yelling at himself, 2 outs nobody on, 2 batters later, 2-0 Twins on a home run by Hunter.
2006-05-30 19:15:15
277.   JoeyP
This is a well deserved Dodger victory. You cant make stupid mistakes like Cox made in the 7th and expect to get away with them.
2006-05-30 19:15:21
278.   Andrew Shimmin
In order for to Ethier get 670 ABs this season, wouldn't the Dodgers need to score, like, 1500 runs? Or start averaging 20 LOB per night.
2006-05-30 19:16:47
279.   Bob Timmermann
Somebody talk Ken back down from the ledge. The Royals are up 2-0 in Oakland.
2006-05-30 19:17:09
280.   D4P
Now Gameday's really messed up. It's claiming that Tomato got an infield single...
2006-05-30 19:17:40
281.   bhsportsguy
The Tomato got an infield hit, wow I'll have to watch the replay tonight, if only to hear about the time Steve Lyons took off his pants.

Matt Kemp is a lot faster that I was led to believe, straight steal or bunt.....

2006-05-30 19:18:16
282.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
The Bison is in to pinch run.
2006-05-30 19:18:48
283.   lakerican
he,he

I have to activate Gagne in my fantasy team so I drop Baez, but the transaction is not efective until tomorrow so if things continue as well, I will have another win, he,he...

2006-05-30 19:19:28
284.   Bob Timmermann
The Bison

You don't know happy that makes me to read that. I think I'm going to cry...

2006-05-30 19:19:55
285.   JoeyP
Doubt Kemp will be called on to pinch run anymore.
2006-05-30 19:20:12
286.   Louis in SF
Folks,

In case any one cares any more about Baseball tonight Peter is going to prop the Dodger youth in the next segment. It is so amazing how the Dodgers through this streak and bringing up good young players have gotten so little attention.

2006-05-30 19:21:46
287.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
There's a reason why bison nearly went extinct.
2006-05-30 19:22:09
288.   JoeyP
The Dodgers 2-out hitting is something else.
2006-05-30 19:22:10
289.   Greg S
Nomar is now 14 for 17 from the 7th inning on over the last 16 games.
That is a seriously sick stat.
2006-05-30 19:22:19
290.   Andrew Shimmin
That was a very puppy-like play by Francoeur. The spirit of Repko is strong with this game.
2006-05-30 19:22:34
291.   bhsportsguy
Nomar has become the latest Mr. Clutch, Bob can you enlighten me on the genisis of The Bison?
2006-05-30 19:22:35
292.   Gen3Blue
Francoir did a nice clown act!
2006-05-30 19:23:20
293.   JoeyP
Willy Aybar with a really good game tonite.
He caps it.
2006-05-30 19:23:49
294.   Sam DC
Just so the record is clear, my "J.D. do!" above referred to the phantom double gameday had awarded him. Needless to say, that comment is no longer operative.
2006-05-30 19:23:57
295.   Greg S
We're good.
2006-05-30 19:24:05
296.   bhsportsguy
You know what, this team may not be that bad, will there be a Saito sighting or a Hamulack sighting?
2006-05-30 19:24:08
297.   Gen3Blue
Francoer did a nice clown act.
2006-05-30 19:24:21
298.   Bob Timmermann
Kemp was called "Buffalo" by somebody. And one of my pet peeves (and I've got more pet peeves than a crazy woman has pet cats) is that in the U.S. what we familiarly call "buffalo" are really "bison."
2006-05-30 19:24:23
299.   Suffering Bruin
The less I post on this site, the better the Dodgers play.

I truly feel I'm making the difference this season.

Seriously... I'm DePo fan and a Choi fan but this is really fun.

2006-05-30 19:24:32
300.   Linkmeister
Early votes reflect Garciaparra as Comeback Player of the Year, huh?

Man, 14-17 in the 7th and beyond. That's amazing.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-05-30 19:25:35
301.   Gen3Blue
Here is where we could use a Gagne. Even at 93 mph.
2006-05-30 19:26:41
302.   Greg S
This is most assuredly NOT where we will use Gagne.
2006-05-30 19:26:44
303.   D4P
298
Following up on The Bison history, an announcer evidently remarked that Kemp looked like a buffalo running the bases. It was thus suggested that his nickname be "The Buffalo." In deference to Bob's relevant pet peeve, I suggested we use "Bison" instead of "Buffalo."

Apparently, it stuck.

2006-05-30 19:27:27
304.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Who pitches the 9th?
2006-05-30 19:27:46
305.   JoeyP
Its like the Dodgers have combined their patience with the Angels knack for 2 out hitting.

I'm not sure how long it will last, but it sure is fun.

2006-05-30 19:28:12
306.   natepurcell
What I really like about Gammons is that he really knows his prospects. And i love it when he gets boners over the Dodgers' prospects.
2006-05-30 19:28:49
307.   JoeyP
303. The Braves announcers actually compared Kemp to Albert Pujols in terms of his body type.
2006-05-30 19:29:26
308.   Suffering Bruin
Gammons... boners... what did we ever do to you Nate?
2006-05-30 19:30:40
309.   Jon Weisman
303 - All you need to cement it is a T-shirt.
2006-05-30 19:30:54
310.   underdog
That was a nice little segment on Baseball Tonight on the Dodgers' youth movement. If you missed it try to catch the rerun later, or maybe on their web site... Gammons basically repeated what he'd already said before, which is Arizona and the Dodgers, with their young talent, will be "dominant for the next 5-8 years."

Btw, is it just me or is Gammons looking more and more like a cartoon bird of some kind?

2006-05-30 19:31:52
311.   bhsportsguy
I actually like this move, first off, I assume that he was getting ready, second with Broxton pitching 2 innings last night and Beimel pitching yesterday, he is their best option, he should be able to get through this right away and be ready for tomorrow.
2006-05-30 19:32:11
312.   natepurcell
Gammons... boners... what did we ever do to you Nate?

Sorry, I will keep this strictly baseball.... I mean't "woodys"

2006-05-30 19:32:56
313.   JoeyP
If/When Arizona promotes Drew/Nippert, they might become the best team in the NL.
2006-05-30 19:33:00
314.   underdog
Oh yeah, here it is. Gammons = http://www.nonstick.com/wpics/sf_beaky.jpg
2006-05-30 19:34:12
315.   CanuckDodger
Nate, what specifically did Gammons say about our prospects, and which ones did he single out?
2006-05-30 19:35:49
316.   underdog
He singled out most of the top ones, Martin, Ethier, Kemp, Broxton, with highlights for each, and mentioned Aybar, Loney, said Billingsley should be up this year to contribute.
2006-05-30 19:36:12
317.   Greg S
Actually, I think this is it
http://home.schule.at/cometo/art/gallery/3_exhibitions_themes/satire_cartoon/bird_resize.jpg
2006-05-30 19:37:12
318.   natepurcell
the thing that stuck out was that he said Dodgers think Kemp will be the best one, or something like that.

also, Harold Reynolds was giving a ton of praise to Logan White.

2006-05-30 19:38:26
319.   JoeyP
This thread could use TinyUrl
2006-05-30 19:39:05
320.   confucius
Why does Little always use relievers for two innings? Did he do this in Boston? It is kind of annoying when one of your best relievers is unavailable for the next night.
2006-05-30 19:39:38
321.   Gen3Blue
Saito--he gets down 3-0. doesn't matter.He strikes out the batter. Gives up a smash single. Doesn't matter. He strikes out the next guy. This is the kind of OK guy you need under pressure. He's not great, but he doesn't care what the situation is-he does OK.
2006-05-30 19:40:19
322.   bhsportsguy
The Dodgers win their first game after being tied after 7 innings, they were 0-4 before today.
2006-05-30 19:40:32
323.   JoeyP
Dodgers win!
Never a doubt after Cox changed the Karmic forces in the 7th.
2006-05-30 19:40:48
324.   underdog
Gaimo over!

317 Hah hah.

2006-05-30 20:01:04
325.   Jon Weisman
320 - I like it. I like getting good work out of guys who are pitching well and then giving them a day off.

At a minimum, I don't see anything inherently wrong with it.

2006-05-30 20:01:50
326.   Jon Weisman
320/325 - I should add, his use of set-up men for two innings is nothing unusual.
2006-05-30 20:03:09
327.   Steve
Why does Little always use relievers for two innings?

Because he's the man. The fact that the Stupid Bunt is now working in our favor instead of against us is exciting.

2006-05-30 20:04:20
328.   Gen3Blue
Man, it takes me forever to get into Toaster.
I got on some west coast feed on DTV and now I have glimpsed what you have seen and said. Please somebody, put Steve Lyons out of his misery!!!
2006-05-30 20:08:51
329.   Jon Weisman
328 - The site was down for a few minutes.
2006-05-30 20:09:12
330.   Andrew Shimmin
Less than an hour left on Hochevar. Will there be a moment of silence at 9:01? I don't blame him for wanting more money. It's dumb to let himself be used as a way for Boras to maintain his rep, but the signing bonus is the only leverage a draftee has, or will have for six years. He ought to get out of it what he can. Why would it be better for McCourt to keep the extra million bucks?

The reneging business, though, is bad form, if that's what really happened. Anyway, too bad.

2006-05-30 20:09:35
331.   D4P
JAWFB
2006-05-30 20:13:12
332.   Steve
Harold Reynolds was giving a ton of praise to Logan White.

Be careful what you ask for...

2006-05-30 20:15:05
333.   Uncle Miltie
Grady Little's (perfect) management of the bullpen brings tears to my eyes. It's almost as gratifying as watching Barry Bonds choke Jeff Kent.

Nate- do we leave Kemp in CF or move him over to left when we acquire Crawford. I know Kemp has more experience in CF, but Crawford's range may play better in center. Kemp does have a better arm though.

I would not want to run into Willy Aybar in a dark alley. I don't think I've ever seen him smile.

2006-05-30 20:17:35
334.   D4P
333
Ah, funny you say that: he only smiles in dark alleys.
2006-05-30 20:17:58
335.   Gen3Blue
It will indeed feel great to have Gagne back if he is half way healthy (and Jon, I certainly understand your misgivings about his self reported health). With a crew of Biemel, Broxton, Saito, and even Baez behind him (or perhaps in front of him), we may be OK.
2006-05-30 20:18:11
336.   Suffering Bruin
FWIW, 94-71 Phoenix with 5:40 left.
2006-05-30 20:22:50
337.   natepurcell
re 333

considering that Kemp has come through the minors playing center and crawford mostly always plays left field, i think we should leave them.

of course, the point is moot if colletti trades kemp for crawford.

2006-05-30 20:26:16
338.   Steve
If we trade for Carl Crawford and Cole Hamels, they can play all nine positions between them while digging the Grand Canyon.
2006-05-30 20:26:17
339.   Steve
If we trade for Carl Crawford and Cole Hamels, they can play all nine positions between them while digging the Grand Canyon.
2006-05-30 20:26:17
340.   Steve
If we trade for Carl Crawford and Cole Hamels, they can play all nine positions between them while digging the Grand Canyon.
2006-05-30 20:26:38
341.   Steve
The rare triple!
2006-05-30 20:28:22
342.   sanchez101
I dont like the Buffalo nickname for Kemp. Im not sure why, it just doesnt seem right. And the fact that an Atlanta announcer came up with it doesnt help. You could hear some of the players refer to him as Kemper last game after he scored a run, but Im not a huge fan of that either. I think, like Kemp with those outside pitches, we should lay off for a while and let the nickname come to us.
2006-05-30 20:29:32
343.   D4P
342
Sanchez takes a Buffalo stance.
2006-05-30 20:30:03
344.   ddger
Has Kemp passed J. Guzman among our prospects?

Also, Saito was throwing pretty hard tonight, reaching 95 few times and consistently 92 to 93. I didn't think that he could throw that hard.

2006-05-30 20:30:11
345.   sanchez101
337. Kemp will have to punch a few more managers before he's traded. Everyone in the organization seems very high on him, if someone else wants a right handed power bat I think Guzman is the one to go.
2006-05-30 20:32:03
346.   Nagman
Interesting game in San Diego.
2006-05-30 20:34:12
347.   sanchez101
Is anyone paying attention to Billingsley's start. So far the defense is failing behind him, but he seems to be handling it ok. Only 1 strikout but 9 groundballs to 3 flys.
2006-05-30 20:35:03
348.   D4P
I'm not expert, but I feel like Kemp is a better prospect than Guzman. I'm not opposed to trading the latter.
2006-05-30 20:35:29
349.   Uncle Miltie
339- Crawford can only play all 3 outfield positions. I don't think he's fast enough to come in from left field on a ground ball to shortstop. He's also left handed.

344- yes. Guzman is the centerpiece of the Crawford trade.

2006-05-30 20:36:41
350.   D4P
For some reason, whenever I try to type "I'm no expert," it comes out "I'm not expert," and I never realize it until it's too late.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-05-30 20:38:51
351.   das411
Oh geez, at the risk of a big time jinx and incurring the wrath of every SD fan here, I will point out that right now at MLB.com their sub-headline is "Chris Young has no-hit the Padres through five innings tonight."

Yep. That's what they said. Not me.

349 - Miltie, meet www.ColeHamelsFacts.com , ColeHamelsFacts.com meet Miltie.

2006-05-30 20:38:51
352.   fawnkyj
Crawford is nice and all but im all for giving LF to Ethier for the rest of the year. He plays solid defense and has a better arm than Crawford.

Plus you dont have to trade prospects for Ethier!

If Coletti wants to make a move go after an ace, maybe the Dtrain. Hitting hasn't been the problem and an pitcher the caliber of Dontrelle would make the Blue a team to reckon with in the postseason.

2006-05-30 20:39:21
353.   ToyCannon
203
I have a recollection of having seen that game on TV which means it would have to have been a game of the week on Saturday. For years I was a big McLain fan just for allowing me to see my boyhood idol hit that home run. I wonder if the memory is accurate that I actually saw it?

Great game tonight. Came home from doing errands and just finished watching the Tivo version. What is up with Nomar after the 7th inning. Looks like Sele did another credible job. He going to suck me in no matter how much I try to resist.

Come on Jeff Weaver, make your new poppa proud.

2006-05-30 20:40:09
354.   natepurcell
billingsley is substituting high pitch counts and strike outs for ground ball outs today.
2006-05-30 20:42:44
355.   Uncle Miltie
I've seen it. It doesn't say anything about Cole Hamels being able to play the entire infield. I just have my doubts that he'd be able to play SS.
2006-05-30 20:47:17
356.   Nagman
End of 6 1/2 in San Diego. Helton's shot to left center was at the wall, Cameron tracked it down while running into the wall.
2006-05-30 20:47:28
357.   D4P
One thing that appeared to come out of the Penny debacle discussion was the notion that a pitcher (or other player) should put the team's best interest ahead of their own stats.

With that in mind, if a pitcher is pitching a "special" game in the late innings, but has a pitch count so high that he would normally be brought out of the game (presumably because it's in the team's best interest to remove him), should the team go ahead and pursue its best interest by removing him, even though it ends his chance to complete the "special" game?

2006-05-30 20:48:57
358.   Uncle Miltie
352- Ethier gives us depth, there's nothing wrong with keeping him around as a 4th outfielder. Ethier has displayed some power, but he doesn't have a Rottweiler's head tattooed on his arm. Crawford does. Real men have Rottweiler tattoos, thus Ethier is not a real man.
2006-05-30 20:50:03
359.   sanchez101
352. Im all for trading with the Marlins over the DRays, theyre not overly anal when it comes to trading for prospects. Their GM seems to identify prospects he likes and trades for them rather than waiting around for a bidding war to develop while trying to embarass the other GM.
2006-05-30 20:52:12
360.   Gen3Blue
OK OK, Guzman now that he's an outfielder with little plate discipline can seem like not very valuable.
But the other side of the coin--- if this kid could do a good job at shortstop, being twenty, 6'4" and 220, he must be awfully athletic. When he is 22, 6'6" and 260 and if his average is .280,(lower than its been in any league even though he was young for his level), what is his power potential like.
Consider this when putting him in trades.
2006-05-30 20:54:36
361.   natepurcell
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/events/draft/y2005/tracker/search.jsp?sc=round&sp=3

watch the avery (bryan) morris draft video. that hook is so nasty. We need to draft him at 31

2006-05-30 20:55:07
362.   Steve
Young has only gotten 2 ground outs and 13 fly outs.
2006-05-30 20:56:30
363.   confucius
I finally got to see the Ethier (ether) pun I've been waiting for all year. Why worry about Kemp when you've get something gold like ether!?!
2006-05-30 20:56:39
364.   D4P
362
And he's given up 1 double.
2006-05-30 20:56:49
365.   Steve
And one double.
2006-05-30 20:57:41
366.   Nagman
Hawpe lines the first pitch of the 8th down the RF line. Tony Gwynn calling the game mutters "doggone it" with teeth clenched.
2006-05-30 20:58:03
367.   natepurcell
Why worry about Kemp when you've get something gold like ether!?!

Midas in action!

2006-05-30 20:58:26
368.   Steve
That means we can all switch over to that pitcher's duel in Oakland!
2006-05-30 20:58:42
369.   Disabled List
The San Diego announcer sounded like he was about to start swearing on the air.

"GRDGRDOGGONE IT!!! On the first pitch!!! ARGHHH"

2006-05-30 20:59:34
370.   ToyCannon
359
New era, new GM, new ownership, new President. I agree with your assessment of the old regime but it did get them Kazmir for an old shoe.

That was the turning point for the Devil Rays much like the Brand for Chandler was the turning point for the Clippers.

2006-05-30 20:59:54
371.   gpellamjr
I was considering this today, and the winner for worst announcers in baseball goes to the Padres for their terrible handling of the blown no-hitter this evening. I rather enjoy the Padres' radio announcers. In '96 I used to listen to their games while watching the Dodger games down the stretch.
2006-05-30 20:59:54
372.   gpellamjr
I was considering this today, and the winner for worst announcers in baseball goes to the Padres for their terrible handling of the blown no-hitter this evening. I rather enjoy the Padres' radio announcers. In '96 I used to listen to their games while watching the Dodger games down the stretch.
2006-05-30 21:01:28
373.   gpellamjr
366 I think that was the play-by-play guy who barked "doggonitt", not Gwynn. If it indeed was Gwynn, I would lose all respect for him.
2006-05-30 21:03:25
374.   gpellamjr
Some people posting on insidethedodgers are very eager for the return of veteran leadership to the Dodgers. Apparently the Dodgers can win without it. Can't Mueller give advice while on the DL?
2006-05-30 21:04:08
375.   Nagman
373. You're probably right. I usually watch Padre games with the sound down because I can't stand Vasgersian's forced screaming, or bozo Grant. Unlike you, I don't enjoy the radio guys... Leitner gets on my nerves.
2006-05-30 21:05:48
376.   natepurcell
Billingsley with a pretty good rebound start from a couple of his horrendous previous couple of starts.

100 pitches- 62 strikes 11GBO 3FBO

7IP 5H 3ER 2bb 5k 1hr 4.22era

he made one mistake, a 2 out first pitch fb down the middle to some dude that ripped it over the left field wall. Other then that he was solid, getting out in front of hitters and efficient with his pitches.

2006-05-30 21:05:49
377.   D4P
pitcher's duel in Oakland

I didn't know that Reggie Sanders was a Royal. Talk about obscurity.

Nick Swisher of "Moneyball" fame is sure having a nice season thus far. Relative to last season, he seems to have figured out how to walk more and strikeout less. Funny how that seems to help...

2006-05-30 21:05:58
378.   Steve
They probably jumped in mid-air when Young got "Ryan Spilborghs" to strike out to end the inning.
2006-05-30 21:06:23
379.   Bob Timmermann
Presumably the guy yelling would have been Ted Leitner.

He's too evil to end up on my lists.

2006-05-30 21:06:37
380.   gpellamjr
375 As much as anything, I think my enjoyment comes from nostalgia from the '96 race, which I enjoyed a lot.
2006-05-30 21:07:42
381.   Steve
Nick Swisher is the only non-Dodger that is going to be allowed in the special '06-'16 wing of the Hall of Fame.
2006-05-30 21:13:05
382.   Uncle Miltie
379- or Jerry Coleman- "flyball.....warning track......wall.....caught by Khalil." How the hell is he in the hall of fame?

I hate Leitner. The guy is such a tool. "My Padres"...what an idiot.

2006-05-30 21:16:28
383.   Steve
Here comes Ned's next big middle relief acquisition, Joe Nelson, to shut down the Big Green. Marco Scutaro, of course, leads off with a foul bunt.
2006-05-30 21:29:38
384.   sanchez101
from insidethedogers

Kids don't just produce out of some instinctive spark. It takes veteran leadership to keep them going, to keep them focused, to teach them, to guide them, etc...

I guess I'm blown away by some of the "hey let's get the kids out there" talk that really stinks of ignorance.

Posted by: ognir_rrats@yahoo.com | May 30, 2006 08:27 PM

i didnt know people actually read Plascke?

2006-05-30 21:35:03
385.   JoeyP
Macha just double-switched Eric Chavez out of a 1-run ball game in the 7th inning.

Has the world gone mad?

2006-05-30 21:40:52
386.   Uncle Miltie
384- I didn't know that Plaschke posts on blogs
2006-05-30 21:41:51
387.   Steve
What in the name of Ringo Starr...?
2006-05-30 21:46:42
388.   Uncle Miltie
385- Chavez came out with a bruised wrist. Macha isn't that bad.
2006-05-30 22:05:44
389.   thinkingblue
Ethier has more home runs and RBIs than Antoinio Perez and Milton Bradley combined, and doesn't look like he'll be tossing buckets of baseballs anytime soon. Go figure, Ned made the right move ;).
2006-05-30 22:07:22
390.   thinkingblue
Nate, if Ned trades Kemp for Crawford...(finish the sentence cuz I'd be so mad I wouldn't even be able to think of what to say)
2006-05-30 22:15:32
391.   Jon Weisman
389 - I don't think Ned's moves have ever had any shortage of defenders here. By no means has there been unanimity of opinion. The Bradley trade had more than its share of supporters to go with detractors. I'm guessing, though, that not even Colletti thought Ethier would be doing this well at this time.

Of course, the final chapter on that trade has yet to be written, but I'm glad it's looking good for the Dodgers so far.

2006-05-30 22:33:32
392.   Xeifrank
So, what happens when Repko and Ledee come off the DL? DT Thoughts?
vr, Xei
2006-05-30 22:54:09
393.   CeyHey
Can someone tell me how to figure out OBPs. I have to make a case for my players for LL all star voting.
2006-05-30 22:55:28
394.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
FWIW..
The Dodgers have won 18 time in May, and there's one more game tomorrow.
The last time LA posted 18 or more wins in a month: July 2004 (21-7).
Since the start of the 1996 season, the number of 18-win months: Seven (including May 2006).
In that span, the number of 19-win months: Four.
2006-05-30 22:56:30
395.   trainwreck
I am late to the discussion, but I agree with everything you said, John, about the Luke Hochevar situation. I think we need as many talented arms as we can get in the minors and we should have the financial flexibility to afford it.
2006-05-30 22:57:40
396.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
OBP = H+BB+HBP/(AB+BB+HBP+SF)
2006-05-30 22:58:27
397.   trainwreck
I am late to the discussion, but I agree with everything you said, John, about the Luke Hochevar situation. I think we need as many talented arms as we can get in the minors and we should have the financial flexibility to afford it.
2006-05-30 23:03:47
398.   Uncle Miltie
Nate- what do you think about Jared Mitchell? Is he another guy like DeSean Jackson who is a raw baseball player and would prefer to play football? Would he be worth taking at 26? Any more info on him....
2006-05-30 23:06:21
399.   Uncle Miltie
*of

I'm hoping that Clayton Kershaw is there at 7. I'm guessing that he'll go in the top 3. Maybe the Royals will even pick him #1.

2006-05-30 23:11:39
400.   JoeyP
So, what happens when Repko and Ledee come off the DL?

I think Repko's destination depends on how well Matt Kemp does. If Kemp tears the cover off the ball (and we know he already plays CF better than Repko), I have to think Repko will be sent down to AAA.

Ledee doesnt really have a place on the team. Cruz, Kemp, Ethier, Drew, Lofton...will be the OF'ers. Of course, Lofton/Drew could be DL'ed at anytime and sometimes things like that work themselves out.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-05-30 23:14:10
401.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
When Ledee is activated, down goes Kemp.
As for Repko's activation, it gets tricky there. Remember, Jason was hot before getting hurt and that had to have stuck with Grittle.
2006-05-30 23:14:55
402.   natepurcell
398

Mitchell is too raw for my taste. his comparison is carl crawford which would make you all giddy but I just dont like drafting that raw of a baseball player in the first round. he has a scholarship to LSU to be their WR and play baseball. hes an amazing athlete.

2006-05-30 23:15:52
403.   ToyCannon
A's lose to the Royals in a tetonic battle of the bullpens and thus lose 2 out of 3 and are now the proud owners of the worse team in baseball over the last 12 games.

Angels beat the Twins as Weaver rolls out his 2nd straight decent start. Could this be the start of one of his hot streaks?

Angels pull into a tie for 2nd place

Not bad for a team that appeared to be where the A's are right now 8 days ago. By Sept all of this will be a memory as the A's and Angels fight for the right to represent the AL West as the Rangers forget how to play baseball in the August heat.

2006-05-30 23:16:50
404.   natepurcell
I'm hoping that Clayton Kershaw is there at 7. I'm guessing that he'll go in the top 3. Maybe the Royals will even pick him #1.

no way royals take Kershaw #1. Its going to be Miller, lincecum, lincoln and a slight slight chance of maybe Hochevar. Kershaw could go #4 to the pirates or #6 to the tigers before he drops to us. Most likely, hes going 6 to the tigers and we are SOL.

2006-05-30 23:17:56
405.   ToyCannon
400
How do we know that Kemp plays a better CF then Repko? He's played all of one game in CF at the Major League level. Where does this analysis come from?
2006-05-30 23:22:54
406.   JoeyP
401. THats probably what will happen but I dont think its right. Kemp's already had an option used up, so why not keep him up and play him (if he does well at the plate).

Kemp's plays CF'er a ton better than Repko. Navarro should be coming back soon as well and you gotta think Sandy Alomar era will be mercifully over. Sandy did ok at the plate, but he's just not reliable enough to spell Martin nor catch the pitching staff.

The team should improve with Navarro, Gagne coming back. Ledee, Repko coming back may not be so good (depending on whom they send down).

2006-05-30 23:23:35
407.   JoeyP
Where does this analysis come from?

Have you watched Jason Repko play CF'er?

2006-05-30 23:25:04
408.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
407 - Not much of a comeback, JP.
2006-05-30 23:27:17
409.   JoeyP
No, I think the "anyone but Repko" CF argument is rather sound.

Repko is really really really bad out there. Check his numbers out from last season. Kemp, at least has scouting reports and no history of failuire, on his side.

2006-05-30 23:34:28
410.   JoeyP
For further reference, Repko's RATE2 in CF for 2006 is 92.
Last year he was 93 in LF, 108 in CF (which was shocking), and 100 in RF.

Its no stretch whatsoever to believe Matt Kemp is a better defensive OF'er than Jason Repko.

2006-05-30 23:35:08
411.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Repko's Rate2 as a center fielder last year was 108.
2006-05-30 23:42:46
412.   JoeyP
Lofton's CF Rate2 is 90.
Nomar's 1b Rate2 is 94.
Furcal's SS Rate2 is 89.
Alomar's C Rate2 is 67!!!!
Kent's 2b Rate2 is 119!!!
2006-05-30 23:47:51
413.   overkill94
406 Options only count once per year, so it's not like we have to keep him up all year. He's one of those players who will probably never need all three option years, so bringing him up right now wasn't much of a risk.

As for Kemp vs. Repko in CF, all I can say it that the scouts have always viewed Kemp as more of a corner outfielder and I haven't really heard any truly relevant complaints about Repko's defense except on here. Sure he may take some bad routes, but his speed can make up for it. Kemp needs to be sent down once Repko is healthy to continue learning plate discipline so that he can be a permanent fixture in the OF either mid-next year or 2008 at the latest.

2006-05-30 23:53:31
414.   JoeyP
Drew's RF Rate2 is 111.
Mueller's 3b Rate2 is 88.
Aybar's 3b Rate2 is 81.
Cruz's LF-105, CF-119, RF-100.

The Dodger defense as a whole is below average, but Drew,Kent,Cruz are having good years.

2006-05-30 23:56:59
415.   JoeyP
scouts have always viewed Kemp as more of a corner outfielder

Jason Repko was a shortstop not that long ago. Its a stretch to say he's a better defensive OF'er, than someone thats been playing the position his whole career. And Kemp has actually been noted as a 5-tool player (with fielding being one of those tools).

2006-05-31 00:01:53
416.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
The Dodger defense as a whole is below average...
LA's defensive efficiency of .706 ranks 7th in the NL and 13th in MLB.
2006-05-31 00:02:09
417.   Andrew Shimmin
Kemp should go back down. I don't believe for a second that Repko is as good as his first 69 ABs would tend to indicate, but unless Kemp makes himself undemotable, he should spend a little more time in the minors (a single AB in AAA couldn't hurt). Ledee is no longer worth his roster spot, barring injury to two or more useful players (and barring Ethier and Repko crashing totally). Somebody must need a 5th OFer.
2006-05-31 00:10:44
418.   overkill94
415 I'm not an expert on it, but Bill James' defensive efficienty chart (or whatever he calls it) has a spectrum of positions which are easier than others. I'm pretty sure SS is toward the top of that list, so simply "playing the position" your whole career shouldn't change your supremacy much.
2006-05-31 00:55:11
419.   Louis in SF
It is easy to fall in love with young talent for a week or two, but it has been known to fade down the stretch. I think the Dodgers have benefited tremendousley from bringing up the young talent already and whatever decisions are made we should be in a great position to come time for the September call-ups.

However from now until then a few thoughts-Once Repko comes back Kemp is sent to Triple A, I think he is real close and you can't judge after 2 games but plate discipline needs improving. When Navarro come s back, suggest that Sandy Alamar Jr join the team as a player coach and let him know that he will be activited when necessay.

When Ledee returns and has his long rehab stint he should come back as a pinch hitter.
When he comes back it strikes me that they can keep an eyeout for progress.

I think when Mueller returns he comes back to 3rd, but Aybar stats to spell him

2006-05-31 01:37:06
420.   Uncle Miltie
Nate, I completely forgot about Andrew Miller. The guy is a stud and I'm almost positive that the Royals will pick him #1. Do you really think Lincecum is going to go ahead of Kershaw? Another guy I'm interested in is Jeremy Jeffress, since it appears as though we are going to take a high school pitch. One guy I really don't want the Dodgers to draft is Brandon Morrow. Some scouts think that he's going to be a reliever in the majors.

Pretty much I'm hoping for Kershaw at 7. If not, I guess Jeffress would be ok. At 26, I'm interested in Travis Snider.

You posted a video on here a while ago of a right handed high school hitter. I think he was in a home run. The guy was big too, 6'3-6'4. What ever happened to him? He might be worth taking in the 4th round (we lost our 2nd and 3rd round picks right?)

2006-05-31 06:47:20
421.   Eric Enders
There's zero chance the Royals will take Kershaw -- they've already announced that their selection will be a college pitcher, they just haven't said which one.

I'd love it if they took Hochevar and (because they're the Royals, after all) inevitably screwed up the negotiations.

Then Logan White could take Hochevar again in the 2007 draft.

2006-05-31 07:01:35
422.   Sam DC
Nicely written post today from Capitol Punishment about the uses and limits of box scores and his dearly departed Nationals hat.

http://dcbb.blogspot.com/

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