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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Collins Makes Some Lemonade
2006-06-09 09:28
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Dodger scouting director Logan White gets a great deal of credit for the success of this year's Dodger rookies, and rightfully so, but director of player development Terry Collins deserves his share as well. Tony Jackson of the Daily News throws some his way this morning.

Collins looked like he was on his way out the Dodger door after his selection to manage the team by Paul DePodesta reportedly became the reason DePodesta was abruptly fired. (Talk about awkward ...) However, Collins has certainly made the best of things since he was relieved of his last managerial post in Anaheim in 1999, and you might argue that he has been more valuable as farm director than he could have ever been as manager.

The laid-back, congenial White is the man generally credited with building the Dodgers' pool of minor-league talent. Collins, who is part drill sergeant and part father figure, is the man who is developing them. Or, as he would prefer to put it, the man who hired the managers and coaches who are developing them. ...

This isn't Collins' calling. After finishing second five times in six seasons as the manager of the Houston Astros and the Angels, he believes he was meant to manage and hopes to do it again one day. But this is Collins' present vocation, and he is determined to do it well for as long as he does it.

The goal isn't to get every player to the big leagues, because the reality is that the vast majority never will make it. The goal is that the players who do get called up will be ready when they get there. To Collins, that means staying ahead of the curve when it comes to promoting them, often moving them to the next level before they master the one they're at.

That's because Collins wants his players to struggle. After all, he figures if they learn how to fight their way out of a slump in the minors, they will be better prepared to battle their way out of one in the majors.

Comments (111)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-09 10:02:22
1.   Bob Timmermann
I guess I know where all the Costa Rican Dodger Thoughts readers are.
2006-06-09 10:03:28
2.   Eric Enders
Um, in Costa Rica?
2006-06-09 10:05:13
3.   Eric Enders
The Riverside Press-Enterprise reports that the Dodgers signed Adam Greenberg and assigned him to Jacksonville. He's got the ultimate Moonlight Graham story. He made it to the majors and has seen exactly one big league pitch in his career. It hit him in the head.
2006-06-09 10:09:42
4.   Jon Weisman
3 - At least he got a good look at it.
2006-06-09 10:15:13
5.   Bob Timmermann
2

I guess I did a good job of hiding the World Cup posts on The Griddle.

2006-06-09 10:16:39
6.   Jon Weisman
1 - I knew the answer!
2006-06-09 10:23:02
7.   Strike4
Collins' approach is a modern description of the Peter Principle... get promoted until one's level of incompetence is found.
2006-06-09 10:36:23
8.   GoBears
7. Importantly, though, he says he only does that with the ones he deems to be true MLB prospects. Sounds like a good plan to me.
2006-06-09 10:48:12
9.   DougS
Jon, you mention something that kept crossing my mind during that doomed managerial search: that Collins was doing such a good job as Minor League Coordinator that he was far more valuable in that role than as MLB Manager. Good thing he swallowed his disappointment and didn't bail on the Dodgers all together when the Manager thing fell apart.
2006-06-09 10:51:28
10.   Jon Weisman
9 - It sure seems like he thought long and hard about leaving.

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/312854.html

2006-06-09 10:56:59
11.   Jon Weisman
So, is today the day the other shoe drops on Eric Gagne? (What would that be, like, the eighth or ninth shoe?)
2006-06-09 11:01:03
12.   Marty
What is the other shoe? Steroids?
2006-06-09 11:04:22
13.   Bob Timmermann
I think Jon believes that Gagne will be diagnosed with a far worse injury.

Or maybe have the Marburg virus.

2006-06-09 11:07:10
14.   Jon Weisman
Yeah, 11 was all about his injuries.
2006-06-09 11:07:35
15.   Kayaker7
Gagne did not impress me in his outing. You can't convince me that he's 100% until he's throwing 98 MPH again.
2006-06-09 11:07:55
16.   Marty
Have they been doing more tests beyond the last MRI? I was assuming he would try to throw again some day soon and then re-injure himself.
2006-06-09 11:10:14
17.   Jon Weisman
People have been wondering whose roster spot Cesar Izturis will take (after Jeff Kent replaces Joel Guzman). I think Cesar will replace a pitcher.
2006-06-09 11:13:36
18.   Jon Weisman
16 - They said he was going to be reexamined today, I believe - presumably after Wednesday's swelling went down.

15 - I don't think anyone thinks he's going to throw 98 again, period. I don't think that's even the optimistic standard anymore.

2006-06-09 11:13:47
19.   bhsportsguy
11 Jon, are you the kind of guy who keeps an umbrella with him at all times?

Heard the esteemed Logan While on XM this morning, nothing really newsworthy but he did say that they plan to see how Nick Akins plays this summer before committing to sign him and they know there are signability issues with Alex White but they will follow him this summer also.

They then played a cut of Scott Boras talking to Kevin Kennedy and Rob Dibble on their afternoon show that was taped on Tuesday following Hochevar's selection by KC.

Boras tells them how the Dodgers should have signed Luke because he is better than Jae Seo and how they could have maybe kept Duaner Sanchez, how Luke will be a #2 or #3 guy, that even if they had signed him January, he could have gone to Spring Training and won a job with the MLB club. Finally he says that since the McCourts are still new, they rely on their baseball people and that it is shame that their scouting director did not see the true talent and value of Hochevar.

Logan listened to all of it, called Boras a great spinmaster and that Boras' track record has it share of players who never panned out. While he wishes nothing but the best for Luke, he also added that he was glad that Luke went No. 1 because he does not think they would have gotten Kershaw if KC doesn't take him.

My read of this situation based on everything I have read and now hearing the tone of Logan White's voice when he talks about this is that had Ned bypassed White's recommendation re Hochevar's bonus, White easily could have walked. This really came down to an integrity issue and I just think that Logan White was very disappointed in how the whole thing played out and that he needed the Dodgers to back him and they did.

He also mentioned Ivan DeJesus and Tony Harper, both at Columbus as players to watch.

Neal, he sees Kershaw following Elbert's pattern in the minors. He thinks Mattingly will get a shot at SS but thinks he may end up at 2B.

2006-06-09 11:15:37
20.   Purple Hippopotamus
11 - Did you see Will Carroll's latest writeup on Gagne?

http://tinyurl.com/qnael

2006-06-09 11:23:00
21.   Jon Weisman
20 - Yes.

19 - No, I'm not.

2006-06-09 11:23:13
22.   Marty
BTW Jon, nice Entourage ad on the side. That is becoming one of my faovrite shows.
2006-06-09 11:24:52
23.   Eric Enders
15 If that's the criterion, then there's pretty much zero chance that he'll ever be 100% again. I think the hope is that he can be a very good pitcher again, but hoping that he'll ever return to being Eric Gagne is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
2006-06-09 11:25:54
24.   Eric Enders
19 I think Jon only carries an umbrella when Gagne is pitching. Or considering pitching.
2006-06-09 11:28:19
25.   Eric Enders
"Luke will be a #2 or #3 guy"
-----

That's rather interesting coming from Boras, who tends to play up his clients' abilities beyond belief. I'm surprised he sees the #1 pick in the country as being perhaps only a #3 starter.

2006-06-09 11:30:17
26.   Marty
22 One of my favorite ones too.
2006-06-09 11:35:55
27.   Kayaker7
23 Here is the way I see it. There was nothing done on Gagne's ligament, because apparently there was nothing structurally wrong. Then they removed a nerve because it was causing pain. So, theoretically speaking, there is nothing physical that should be keeping him from throwing as hard as he used to. The ligaments, the tendons, the mechanical soundness of the elbow joint are all the same before the injury as after the injury. So, why is he not throwing 98 MPH?
2006-06-09 11:41:44
28.   Eric Enders
27 I don't think anything is ever exactly the same after surgery as before it, with any athlete. Having your pitching arm operated on twice in less than a year is bound to take a toll even if nothing is any longer structurally wrong.
2006-06-09 11:45:40
29.   JoeyP
17. They may DL Gagne and activate Izturis.

But if that doesnt happen, which pitcher does Izturis replace? It'd be a shame if Kuo got sent back down bc he's pitched well since being recalled.

Maybe they'll option Seo and let him start at Vegas. The Mets did that last year.

2006-06-09 11:49:04
30.   Kayaker7
As someone who's had two knee surgeries to repair damage, I can say that the scar tissue can cause problems. However, if I ignore the pain, I can perform at the same level as before the injury--I just mightily regret it afterwards. Gagne never struck me as a guy to hold back due to pain. I think he's throwing as hard as he can, so I wonder why he can't reach the same velocities as before. It's not like he's on the decline stage of his career. He's too young for that. I just find the explanation, "Every injury is different" somehow unsatisfying.
2006-06-09 11:49:44
31.   JoeyP
19. Are you saying Logan White would have walked had Ned Colletti gave in to Hochevar's contract demands?

Thats interesting.
Does Logan White determine how much signing bonus the draft picks deserve, or does the GM do that?

2006-06-09 11:49:47
32.   Jon Weisman
29 - Gagne (or anyone, for that matter) to the DL, Kuo if he can't hold it together, Seo a definite maybe. Longshot - they cut Perez loose.
2006-06-09 11:53:27
33.   Linkmeister
28, 30 I've had knee surgery to replace a severed patellar tendon. While I've got full range of motion, there's a residual stiffness in the knee that has not gone away in the 8 years since it was done.

I doubt that Gagne will ever be back to where he was, but he doesn't really have to be the lights-out hard thrower in order to be effective as a closer.

2006-06-09 12:03:39
34.   DougS
25 Speaking of overrated, isn't Chan Ho Park a Boras client (or wasn't he at one time)?

Re: Gagne, I was both impressed and troubled by his performance the other night. Impressed in that he really pitched, using craft and guile. He didn't have the old fastball, but he clearly played on hitters' perception that he had the big heater. But I was troubled because, like a lot of others here, I'm not confident that he'll ever throw that hard again. So what happens when hitters around the league reach the same conclusion?

2006-06-09 12:07:50
35.   Jon Weisman
Lots of guys can be effective for a long time with location, guile and mixing pitches if they're good at it.
2006-06-09 12:09:48
36.   Bob Timmermann
35
See "Hoffman, Trevor"
2006-06-09 12:11:54
37.   Telemachos
Even if his fastball only gets into the 89-90 range, Gagne's changeup and slow curve are so devastating he should be quite effective. The other night there was a 20 mph difference between his various pitches.
2006-06-09 12:12:37
38.   bhsportsguy
31 Sure it is just a read but look at it from his perspective, it is one thing for an agent to bark about how good a player is and that he should get this or that, over the last week or so, the theme of both Hochevar and Boras has been that Logan White did not feel that Hochevar deserved $4MM bonus and that the Dodgers did not budge due to that.

Boras is not going to be critical of the McCourts or Neddy because he has to deal with them with his MLB talent (Gagne, Drew, to name a few). But he only will deal Logan White in the rare occurence that the Dodgers are in a position to draft one of his players, frankly Hochevar is the first one I can think of in the past several years.

2006-06-09 12:14:49
39.   bhsportsguy
34 He got him the money. For every A-Rod (sure he was overpaid but he is a great player), there are the Parks and Beltres.
2006-06-09 12:33:22
40.   Xeifrank
Of Matt Kemp's 11 hits, 7 have been singles and 4 have been HRs. No doubles or triples. That seems pretty odd, even with the fairly small sample size. One would think with over 36% of your hits being HRs, that you would probably have atleast one double. vr, Xei
2006-06-09 12:34:54
41.   Eric Enders
"Gagne's changeup and slow curve are so devastating he should be quite effective. The other night there was a 20 mph difference between his various pitches."
-----

More than that, even. He ranged from 68 to 93 or so. That should be enough of a range to be able to pitch effectively even if he never regains the Gagne fastball.

2006-06-09 12:36:09
42.   JoeyP
At one point do you grow concerned about a minor league prospect's production?

I'm thinking specifically about 22yr James Loney (2HR in 145 ABs) at AAA Vegas.
20yr old Blake Dewitt- (.702 OPS) at Single A Vero Beach.

I think Loney/Dewitt (if Ned does make a deadline deal), should definitely be on the table. If I were making a list of 15 tradeable/untouchable prospects list, it'd go like this:

Tradeable- Loney, Dewitt, Hu, Repko, LaRoche, Ruggiano, Guzman, Elbert,

Dont Trade: Kemp, Billingsley, Martin Orenduff, Navarro, Aybar, Broxton

2006-06-09 12:45:26
43.   Kayaker7
If Gagne is going to succeed, then he's going to have to learn a skill that he's never had to use much before. Changing speed is more than having a large difference between the fastball and the changeup. Gagne's changeup was so effective because his fastball was so damn fast. If he were so good at guile and location, he should have succeeded as a starter.

I think, the hitters were thrown off the other night, because they were expecting the hard stuff of old. Once they realize he's not throwing as hard, I think they'll figure out Gagne pretty quickly.

All speculation, I know. It'll be interesting to see how it all turns out.

2006-06-09 12:46:54
44.   Eric Enders
42 "At one point do you grow concerned about a minor league prospect's production? ... I'm thinking specifically about 22yr James Loney"

Yeah, I hate those guys who bat .360. Loney obviously needs to get it together.

2006-06-09 12:47:04
45.   Dark Horse
42-I certainly wouldn't touch LaRoche, nor Elbert. I would consider Navarro more tradeable than either.
2006-06-09 12:50:47
46.   Eric Enders
Tradeable: Navarro, Loney, Hu, Repko, Ruggiano, Guzman, Aybar, Orenduff

Dont Trade: Kemp, Billingsley, Martin, LaRoche, Elbert, Broxton, DeWitt

2006-06-09 12:52:42
47.   bhsportsguy
42 I think the only thing you can point at regarding James Loney is his HR total because similar to Nomar, when he gets some more at bats, he will be second to Howie Kendrick in batting in the PCL, right now he is hitting .352 and his OPS is just under .900. While he has only walked 14 times, he has only struck out 13, counting his MLB at bats, that means he has struck out only 15 times in 201 plate appearances.

I still think the Grace/Olerund model is appropriate for Loney.

2006-06-09 12:56:06
48.   bhsportsguy
The Dodgers have become a pipeline for catchers, at some point this year, LoDuca, Hill, Ross, and Martin put on the gear.

I don't count Navarro because he came from the Yankees.

Of course Mr. and Mrs. Molina put three in MLB all by themselves.

2006-06-09 12:58:13
49.   Eric Enders
And that's not even counting Alfred Molina, who was great in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
2006-06-09 13:05:20
50.   natepurcell
42

players below AA do not fetch fair values in trades so there is no reason to trade elbert and dewitt right now. there is especially no reason to trade elbert when our pitching depth is so thin. Oh as for Orenduff, you're litte college engine that could isnt huffing and puffing anymore.he hasnt made a start in almost 2 weeks and I fear the worse for his elbow.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-09 13:07:28
51.   natepurcell
At one point do you grow concerned about a minor league prospect's production?

I'm not concerned about a 20 yr olds production right now. sorry, let them play the whole year before you go dooming them.

2006-06-09 13:09:48
52.   natepurcell
also, with that nice little fluff piece by Henson on Kemp today, I don't think we have to worry about Kemp being traded.
2006-06-09 13:15:08
53.   natepurcell
our college slugger we picked in the 10th, andy d'alessio is playing on espn right now for clemson. he has potential, he hit .321 this year with 22 homeruns so far.
2006-06-09 13:21:18
54.   bhsportsguy
53 Per Kevin Goldstein in today's BP, D'Alessio was selected by the Reds 3 years ago in the 10th round. He said that while he did not do anything to improve his draft position, he did come on in the second half of the season to hit those aforementioned 21 home runs.
2006-06-09 13:26:52
55.   JoeyP
sorry, let them play the whole year before you go dooming them.

Its more about their entire careers. DeWitt's in his 3rd yr and Loney is in his 5th. They havent distinguished themselves. Loney's ISO is bad, and DeWitt really has struggled at most phases for being a 1st rd pick.

It doesnt really matter if Orenduff went to college or not. He still has some of the best career peripherals in the entire minor league system. And he's still only 23.

2006-06-09 13:29:20
56.   JoeyP
46. I'd keep both Martin and Navarro. Its still too early to tell which one is going to end up the best player IMO.
2006-06-09 13:33:52
57.   sanchez101
53. I love seeing comments like this, immediatly turning on the TV, and seeing A'lessio at the plate. perfect timeing.
2006-06-09 13:36:21
58.   dsfan
Was Terry Collins in his present job in 2003 when Edwin Jackson's work loads, and the intensity of his work loads, were prematurely accelerated? If so, what are his thoughts on the subject?

Is Terry Collins ensuring that James Loney is doing regular long toss to keep that fabulous left arm strong and supple? That would be the prudent course, giving Loney a more viable, last-resort fallback to try pitching if the power isn't adequate by age 24.

2006-06-09 13:38:18
59.   dsfan
Excellent post above on the White/Boras machninations. Boras is doing what he does. As for White, I agree that it's reasonable to infer, from the available information, that the Dodgers needed to back up White.
2006-06-09 13:38:26
60.   sanchez101
55. but, Loney's improved steadily for three years running. I thought according to your little pet theory, that he'd be one of your favorites. His production right now is almost identical to Ethier's when he was down in AAA, and he's younger. Dewitt's done fine for a middle infielder, im not sure were your getting this "stuggled at most phases for being a 1st round pick." I thought he'd be better this year, but its way, way to soon to give up on him.
2006-06-09 13:43:07
61.   natepurcell
I'm not really going to touch on Loney because I agree with you about his ISOp.

Its more about their entire careers. DeWitt's in his 3rd yr and Loney is in his 5th. They havent distinguished themselves

this is dewitt's second full year in the minors, if you want to count his time in rookie ball, he did very well (.284/.350/.488). I guess I have more patience then you, but I am not going to put Dewitt in the failure catagorey yet, especially how he hit in hist last 318ABs last year.

It doesnt really matter if Orenduff went to college or not. He still has some of the best career peripherals in the entire minor league system. And he's still only 23.

it does matter and I don't know how you can see that. He has had more pitching experience then most other prospects and that is a huge deal. His carrer peripherals do not tell the whole story because of his FSL tenure, where he was a polished college pitcher against younger competition. If you really want to see his where he true ability lies, look at his AA numbers. They are of a large enough sample size to get an understanding of his ability. And besides having a pretty good K rate, the rest just are not impressive.

2006-06-09 13:46:11
62.   JoeyP
I think Ethier will probably end up being a 4th OF'er though. Ethier's numbers at AAA are fine for a 4th/5th OF'er.

Loney has improved from his awful season two years ago, but his numbers as first basemen havent been good enough to play that position in the MLB. His ISO numbers havent improved.

I dont think a .700 OPS is acceptable for any minor league position. Perhaps catcher.

2006-06-09 14:01:57
63.   Marty
That was Alfred Molina's first movie role.
2006-06-09 14:05:30
64.   Bob Timmermann
A headline at NCAAsports.com

UCS' Kennedy goes to New York Yankees

2006-06-09 14:08:53
65.   Jon Weisman
You putting up a Super Regional thread later, Bob?
2006-06-09 14:11:26
66.   natepurcell
rosenthal has an article up, he says we are one of the most aggressive teams pursuing SWAGGER.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5678866

2006-06-09 14:14:33
67.   Bob Timmermann
65

Once all the games are over today, I was going to do a recap.

The CS Fullerton-Missouri game doesn't start until 7 and I have a feeling it will be going on long beyond the time I come back from going out tonight.

2006-06-09 14:16:57
68.   sanchez101
66. Im not sure how much we should trust what rosenthal says. I can see some logic behind getting Soriano, but there is much more need for a starting pitcher.

What about Cruz and Izturis to Boston for Clement? The salaries wouldnt be that far off, and we might not have to throw in too much minor league talent. I'd be willing to take a chance on Matt Clement, I'm not sure if Boston is willing to trade him though.

2006-06-09 14:19:00
69.   bhsportsguy
66 I think you will see the Dodgers in every trade scenario along with D-Backs because of the prospects and I think Neddy will float stuff out there just to keep everyone guessing. Remember that almost every deal he made, there were no hints about it.

A comparison could be made to the recent draft a week ago, everyone from BA to Nate thought the Dodgers were on Kershaw and over the weekend Morris popped up too. Sure Mattingly was a surprise but later reports indicated that Dodgers were among the teams interested.

2006-06-09 14:26:11
70.   natepurcell
I dont understand why Colletti is looking for another outfielder where he should be looking for decent starting pitching.
2006-06-09 14:26:13
71.   natepurcell
I dont understand why Colletti is looking for another outfielder where he should be looking for decent starting pitching.
2006-06-09 14:26:18
72.   Steve
The Red Sox are going to pay for Clement to go to Tampa Bay and get Dempster-ized.
2006-06-09 14:30:55
73.   sanchez101
70. I still doubt Colletti is actually looking for an outfielder, I think this is more Rosenthal thinking the Dodgers need an outfielder because Drew and Ethier arent famous enough.
2006-06-09 14:34:07
74.   FirstMohican
66 - From rosenthal's article: "Angels right-hander Ervin Santana for Crawford? The Rays likely would balk; a star position player contributes more than a star pitcher."
2006-06-09 14:35:34
75.   FirstMohican
69 - "Remember that almost every deal he made, there were no hints about it." Uhm... the opposite was true from what I remember. I could be wrong?
2006-06-09 14:38:04
76.   Jon Weisman
75 - No, I agree. The media was almost always wrong or MIA in predicting Colletti's moves.
2006-06-09 14:40:32
77.   Sam DC
Soriano makes no sense for the Dodgers. He should go to a team in hardcore win-now mode (Cardinals, Mets, Yankees) and such a team should be willing to pay heavily with the numbers he's putting up. To the extent the Dodgers are really in it right now with the rookie squad, it's wonderful gravy but the team is still on a longer term arc and shouldn't be de-prospecting for three months of Alfonso Soriano.
2006-06-09 14:41:44
78.   bhsportsguy
76 Aside from that, Soriano does not seem to fit with what Colletti wants to build here.

The lineup is up, Matty is out for now, maybe they don't want Kim's motion to throw him off.

Here is an interesting exchange between Neddy and the writer of the LA Times Dodger blog:

BK: How has the game changed over the years?

NC: More players get hurt. Or admit to it. Obviously, the finances of the game have changed drastically, and more power to the player. In some ways, it's changed a lot. And in some ways, you know, it hasn't.

2006-06-09 14:49:48
79.   JoeyP
Soriano seems like a perfect fit for the Cardinals and it would be right up Walt Jocketty's alley. I could see them offering Wainright and some other prospects for Soriano and getting Bowden to bite.

McGwire, Edmonds, Rolen, and perhaps Soriano is next in line...

2006-06-09 14:51:06
80.   FirstMohican
77 - but think of the compensation picks we'd get!

76 - I don't remember being shocked that we nailed Nomar or Furcal (and I don't think it was a secret that Colletti pursued Giles [unless it was to drive up the price for SD {yeah, I'm ripping off Dwight}]), or that we trade Milton. I'm going totally off memory

2006-06-09 14:58:15
81.   JoeyP
If the Cards were to land Soriano, I think they become easily the best team in the NL again.

Soriano/Pujols/Rolen/Edmonds That would be a killer lineup to have to go through in the playoffs. Their starting pitching isn the best but they still have Mulder/Carpenter capable of being really good pitchers.

2006-06-09 14:58:45
82.   Jon Weisman
80 - The Milton trade decision predated Colletti's arrival, so that doesn't count.

No one knew we were going to get Furcal, Tomko, Seo, Baez. And there wasn't even much buzz over Lofton. The talk was very much over other players, like Giles, that Colletti did not end up acquiring.

Garciaparra might have been predicted by someone.

2006-06-09 14:58:56
83.   D4P
I seriously doubt SWAGGER has the Colletti "makeup." Though, guys like Kent and Furcal may not have said makeup, either.
2006-06-09 15:02:59
84.   natepurcell
D'alessio hasnt looked very good in this game. He cant hit breaking balls and tries to pull everything.
2006-06-09 15:04:41
85.   natepurcell
who was the pitcher that Tracy said had arm angles that would cause choi trouble?
2006-06-09 15:06:27
86.   JoeyP
It was a Padres pitcher.
I think Brian Lawrence.
2006-06-09 15:06:50
87.   sanchez101
I think the logic behind Soriano would be that the offense right now is leaning pretty heavily on OBP and a bit light on power, in particular homerun power. Soriano's low-OBP, high HR power would fit pretty nicely, and he has the speed that the new administration seems to value highly. I can also see the logic behind getting Soriano over another pitcher; if you want to improve the team and pitching is too expensive then more offense isnt a bad second option, wins are wins whether they come from 3-2 scores or 8-6 scores.

Dont take this as my approval of such a deal, I dont want the prospect-core threatened and I dont want Soriano on a long term deal. But if Bowden's willing to take Repko and Baez, I'll give it a thumbs-up.

2006-06-09 15:07:44
88.   natepurcell
LOL.... I still can't get over that excuse.
2006-06-09 15:08:55
89.   natepurcell
87

thats the thing, what does Bowden want for 2-3 months of soriano? He was asking for Milledge from the Mets for Livan.

2006-06-09 15:09:37
90.   JoeyP
Yet Woody Williams "arm angles" apparently werent tricky enough to bench Alex Cora.

Though Cora was 1-100 against him.

2006-06-09 15:09:54
91.   sanchez101
82. the garciaparra deal was anticipated because Nomar made a well publicized visit before signing, if i remember correctly he wouldnt put on a dodger hat before signing because he hadnt made a decision yet.
2006-06-09 15:11:55
92.   sanchez101
85. no, it was Woody williams. I still cant believe Jimbo could say that with a straight face.
2006-06-09 15:17:11
93.   Robert Daeley
Looks like Kaz is on his way to Colorado for Eli Marrero:

http://tinyurl.com/g5nb7

2006-06-09 15:19:39
94.   thinkblue0
getting Soriano really makes no sense for us. Sure, the idea of him in the middle of our lineup with Nomar, Drew, and Kent is VERY appealing...but he's going to cost an arm and a leg and then be a free agent. I'm not willing to give up top prospects for a guy we MIGHT have for half a season. Lots of people are talking about the Yanks, but they simply don't have the prospects it'll take. If the Nats are smart, they'll get a very very nice return for him...in other words, the complete opposite of what the Royals got for Beltran.

As for Loney and Dewitt....Dewitt is still young, I'm not concerned at all. As for Loney, I don't see him ever being a power hitter. When I think of him as a major leaguer I just think Sean Casey. Nice avg, not much power, great defense...and while that's all fine and dandy, those guys tend to be overvalued and overpaid. I love Sean Casey and all, but 8 mill per? No thanks.

2006-06-09 15:23:12
95.   thinkblue0
89-

and the thing is, he isn't being absurd by asking for Milledge. Some team is going to give up a heck of a prospect or two for Soriano.

I completely agree with you that we need more pitching...but who do we get? I wouldn't mind Maddux because he probably wouldn't cost much and it at least a solid starter....as for Willis, he's just really overrated to me (and he's killing my fantasy staff)...and from the reports they want an arm and a leg for him. I really can't think of any pitchers out there that I'd be really excited to get.

2006-06-09 15:23:57
96.   Uncle Miltie
82- We did know that Colletti had some interest in Furcal. Apparently, he was trying to sign Giles and Furcal. we also knew that Lofton was going to sign with the Dodgers or the Diamondbacks, the only two teams in baseball who were interested in signing him as a starter.

No Kemp is Coors field? This is madness!

2006-06-09 15:30:57
97.   D4P
No Kemp is Coors field? This is madness!

Yeah, but just think how fast Lofton will be in that thin Rocky Mountain air!

2006-06-09 15:32:10
98.   sanchez101
95. i wouldnt say that. pitching is in much more demand that hitting. Texas had been trying to ship Soriano but had a hard time getting rid of him for a decent package, Bowden bailed him out by giving him a good outfielder, and two decent prospects. With Soriano months away from free agency he'd go for less. Our hope would be that Bowden would think that Repko is a good outfielder, which isnt that hard to believe. I find it very hard to believe that Colletti would trade one of the top prospects for a couple months of Soriano.
2006-06-09 15:35:23
99.   thinkblue0
98-

I agree with just about everything you said, but I just think with the season Soriano is having that SOMEONE will trade for him. The Rangers were smart when they dealt him a year BEFORE free agency...much like the A's with Mulder.

I mean, if we can land him for Repko and maybe a decent prospect then I'm all about getting him for the stretch run...but if it takes a top prosect then I wouldn't do it, and neither will Ned :)

2006-06-09 15:35:31
100.   JoeyP
Its gotta be the Cards that trade for him. They may even resign him since they have no one to play 2nd base.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-09 15:36:17
101.   D4P
I find it very hard to believe that Colletti would trade one of the top prospects for a couple months of Soriano.

Unless he's secretly planning to convert Alf to middle relief...

2006-06-09 15:36:41
102.   Jon Weisman
96 - I'm not talking a day or a few days before. I'm talking about the kind of buildup that starts with rumors by Rosenthal or Gammons, the kind of buildup that has us spending weeks talking about Adam Dunn.

If someone knew the Dodgers were going to sign Furcal more than five days before it was announced, you're going to have to show me evidence.

2006-06-09 15:38:39
103.   sanchez101
100. "Its gotta be the Cards that trade for him. They may even resign him since they have no one to play 2nd base."
-I cant imagine Tony LaRussa letting Soriano anywhere near the infield.
2006-06-09 15:44:26
104.   FirstMohican
102 - What have other Dodger GMs done that followed weeks of buildup? Lo Duca? Piazza? Getting Milton? Resigning Odalis? Getting Drew instead of Beltre?

A couple really obvious ones I can think of are Shawn Green trade and Kevin Brown trade (both involving the Yanks) .

I'm not arguing that Colletti's intentions are obvious, it just seems like some are and some aren't for him and other GMs.

2006-06-09 15:51:31
105.   Jon Weisman
102 - I'm not arguing about other GMs. I'm just refuting the notion that the press was doing more than making guesses at what Colletti was doing. They reported more rumor than fact. That's what the Hot Stove League is, at least in present times.
2006-06-09 15:58:11
106.   natepurcell
Andrew Miller is pitching on ESPN at 4 against Alabama.
2006-06-09 16:01:57
107.   Uncle Miltie
You're right about Lofton than, because his agent basically told the media that he was going to sign with the Dodgers or Diamondbacks. I do remember reading articles before Furcal signed saying that the Dodgers were pursuing Furcal. The Dodgers were interested in lots of players (Jacque Jones, Juan Pierre, Brian Giles) according to various reports. It doesn't mean they were close to getting them. Rarely have I seen a really out of the blue signing. Trades on the other hand are much different and very hard to predict.
2006-06-09 16:02:23
108.   natepurcell
oh nice! Leblanc vs andrew miller. two lefties going at it.
2006-06-09 16:13:04
109.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2006-06-09 16:18:03
110.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2006-06-09 16:18:27
111.   Jon Weisman
I knew that was a double post in action, but I couldn't prevent it.

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