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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Alomar vs. Lofton
2006-06-12 11:20
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Unnoticed in the celebration of Sandy Alomar, Jr.'s game-winning pinch-single at Colorado for the Dodgers on Sunday was how surprising it was to see him pinch-hit at that particular moment, replacing center fielder Kenny Lofton with one out and the go-ahead run on second base in the ninth inning.

To be honest, it was Little's second daring move of the inning. The first was to have Joel Guzman pinch-hit for Danys Baez followed by Olmedo Saenz for Ramon Martinez, instead of going with Saenz and Martinez and saving Guzman for later.

After Guzman flied out, Saenz doubled and Russell Martin doubled, tying the game with Lofton due up. I had no problem with the boldness of using the Dodgers' final catcher and position player to try to win the game right there, instead of worrying about extra innings. No slam against Lofton, but I'm glad that Little doesn't find him sacred and is willing to consider alternatives. And I'm not big on saving players for innings that might not come. At the same time, I wondered if the move made sense on any level.

Looking up the numbers today, I find that Lofton had a .375 on-base percentage vs. lefties in limited opportunities from 2003-2005 and .361 this season. Alomar was 6 for 13 (.462) against lefties this season, but had an on-base percentage of .270 against them the previous three seasons. Overall this season, the only other significant edge Alomar has over Lofton is in slugging percentage, an edge that's both slim and recent.

The decision to use Alomar seems to have weakened the Dodgers' chances of winning in nine innings as well as 10 or more. Best as I can tell, Little either read a lot into Alomar's 6 for 13, wanted more than just a single or was simply playing a hunch. I haven't heard any reports that Lofton was hurt, which would mootify the need for an explanation.

In any event, Alomar was a strike away from having the move backfire when he went the other way and singled in Martin. I'm still not convinced it was the right move, but I can't say I went to sleep unhappy about it.

Update: I didn't look hard enough at the splits of Colorado pitcher Brian Fuentes. His success against lefties further makes the case for using Alomar. Thanks to the guys in the comments below for pointing this out.

Comments (242)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-12 11:31:10
1.   dianagramr
"mootify" ???

===================

Wow ... its like making something moot AND nullifying it!

Cool!

2006-06-12 11:38:28
2.   Another Bob
Yep, "mootify" is a great word. Did you make that up, Jon, or see it somewhere else?
2006-06-12 11:43:04
3.   Jon Weisman
As far as I'm concerned, I made it up. But here are the Google search results:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mootify

2006-06-12 11:47:30
4.   gpellamjr
I'm not sure of the etymology of "moot" but I'm sure it's some sort of Germanic, but the suffix "-ify" comes from Latin "fio", which means "to make". So, one can put "-ify" at the end of any noun or adjective and mean "to make ----", in this case "to make moot".
2006-06-12 11:48:57
5.   was it tims mitt i saw
if you listened to the post game show (and at the moment i don't remember what the guy's name is that conducts the inteview) he asked sandy alomar why grady decided to use him over lofton and sandy said something like... little asked lofton how he felt about hitting against fuentes and lofton said he hadn't done too well against fuentes in the past so lofton asked to be pinch-hit.

then sandy or the interviewer said lofton was a real team player or something like that.

i'm sure someone else heard the interview and remembers it better

2006-06-12 11:51:15
6.   Daniel Zappala
Per the previous thread, million dollar quarterbacks who ride motorcycles, particularly without a helmet, are pretty dumb. I still hope Roethlisberger is OK.
2006-06-12 11:52:51
7.   natepurcell
the answer in 5 is correct. Lofton told Little fuentes had his number so little made the switch. Fuentes is pretty death on lefties so I thought it was a good move.

on another thought, what would it take to get anythony reyes from the cards? they need outfielders in the worst way.

2006-06-12 11:58:53
8.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
6 - Why a ban on motorcycle riding isn't in the standard NFL contract, I have no idea.
2006-06-12 12:01:00
9.   das411
This may actually be more deserving of a new Bob post, but could we be seeing the birth of a new Yard Work legend??

http://www.yard-work.org/?cat=215

"Lastings apologizes for:

...

- wearing a doo-rag; Lastings should know better than to make such a fashion faux-pas. Be happy to know, folks, that Lastings has forged a life-long friendship with Rickey Henderson (thanks to his involvement with the Mets with spring), and will be going shopping with Rickey when our schedules permit (either before or after Lastings gets a new car) (and when or if Rickey gets paid)."

6 - Agreed, despite my animus towards all things Steelers it's always awful when something like this happens to anybody.

2006-06-12 12:02:03
10.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
IIRC, following the Red Sox's "Impossible Dream" season of 1967, Jim Lonborg blew out a knee skiiing.
2006-06-12 12:08:19
11.   Daniel Zappala
8 Apparently his contract doesn't forbid him from riding motorcycles, even without a helmet. If this doesn't stop him from doing crazy things, nothing will.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06163/697655-66.stm

2006-06-12 12:10:40
12.   dzzrtRatt
Inspired by Jon's post, here are some additional new coinages using "moot."

Mooterific = Describes a point that becomes moot when the results of the wrong move turn out spectacularly well. "You only had one dollar left and you spent it on a lottery ticket instead of the parking meter, and your car got towed away!" "Yeah, but I won the lottery and bought a Jaguar, so it's a mooterific point."

Mootility player = A ballplayer who consistently performs better in high-profile situations than his statistics would indicate, making his manager look good.

2006-06-12 12:10:59
13.   Johnson
5 You almost saw Alec's cleat, but not quite.
2006-06-12 12:11:46
14.   natepurcell
andy laroche's current numbers:

309/419/483

and they are good for:
4th in the Southern League in batting average (.309)
2nd on OBP (.419)
4th in OPS (.901)
1st in RBI (46)
1st in BB (41 compared to 32K)
tied for 7th in HRs (9)
and 3rd in total bases (111)

just showing tough of a hitters league the Southern League really is.

2006-06-12 12:12:22
15.   deburns
Apparently, according to etymonline, the word moot goes back to an Old English word meaning a meeting where matters were discussed and decided. A moot point was therefore one which either had been or would not be decided, and therefore should be left be. We lawyers certainly remember moot court in law school, whether fondly or not is a moot point.
2006-06-12 12:22:13
16.   ToyCannon
14
So I guess your saying that LaRoche is not going to turn into Joe Crede:)

I think it is very cool that he will be passing Ian Stewart and Andy Marte on the 3rd base prospect list. Sanchez101 did a great comparison of LaRoche and Gordon and since I consider Gordon one of the top 5 prospects in baseball I'll have to revisit my opinion of LaRoche.

If that story is true about Lofton telling Little that he can't hit Fuentes my opinion of him just went up a notch.

2006-06-12 12:23:50
17.   sanchez101
14. have you seen BP's new minor league translations? LaRoche's adjusted AA line is 308/412/520 for a .312 eqa. His major league EQA would be .268.
2006-06-12 12:25:40
18.   natepurcell
17

how did they adjust his current line?

2006-06-12 12:29:45
19.   sanchez101
that is his adjusted current line, both to AA (turns out he isnt quite as productive as Alex Gordon) and to the major leagues is .263/.360/.397. That would be his 75% perct. PECOTA forcast.
2006-06-12 12:30:42
20.   ToyCannon
E Jackson with his best start of the year yesterday is back in the AAA rotation after a brief and unsuccessfull fling in the bullpen.
2006-06-12 12:33:08
21.   natepurcell
what are gordons adjusted stats?
2006-06-12 12:33:58
22.   bhsportsguy
14 And that was after an horrendous April.

Nate, were you being sarcastic or are just showing how good LaRoche is doing in comparison to the rest of the league?

Note that the league leader in HRs only has 12. Last year, 26 HRs led the league.

Jacksonville, like its parent, is among the leaders in OBP, walks and runs. This trend maybe just a coincidence but I hope it continues.

2006-06-12 12:37:41
23.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
22 - What were ALR's April stats? I know he was ice cold.
2006-06-12 12:42:13
24.   sanchez101
Alex Gordon:
.307/.394/.550 .323eqa for the Texas League, Wichita is a pitchers park

.267/.346/.451 .282eqa for the majors, he'd be the best hitter on their major league team and that would suprise nobody

2006-06-12 12:43:47
25.   natepurcell
I wasn't being sarcastic, the southern league is super tough ot hit in. on the outside that .483 slg might not look too sexy, but adjusting for league, its pretty good.
2006-06-12 12:44:44
26.   natepurcell
man, if Laroche went to Rice, he would have been a top 10 pick.
2006-06-12 12:46:02
27.   Bluebleeder87
14

1st in BB (41 compared to 32K)

this is what impressed me the most, I'm not a #'s guy but patience is a great thing in a young hitter.

2006-06-12 12:47:14
28.   sanchez101
23
.246/.340/.333, little ave or power, but plenty of walks and a good contact rate (14w:13k), thats why you didnt hear nate worrying too much.
2006-06-12 12:49:19
29.   Bluebleeder87
16

"If that story is true about Lofton telling Little that he can't hit Fuentes my opinion of him just went up a notch."

agreed, I've never had a problem with him, but it dose say alot.

2006-06-12 12:56:22
30.   natepurcell
I think Laroche should be promoted now. It is always good to promote prospects when they are in a middle of a hot streak so it can follow them into the next level and they start off well at the next level. He's had close to 500 ABs in AA, its time to move on.
2006-06-12 12:59:02
31.   sanchez101
-in case anyone needed another reason to like Andy LaRoche, he has a better OPS against RHP than LHP, .873 to .834.

just looking over the BP's minor league translations and comparing them to PECOTA's projections, it seems our farm is doing well outside the callups:

name majEQA perct.
Abreu .264 90%+
Denker .199 10-25%
DeWitt .220 50%
CL Hu .242 75%
Laroche .268 75%
Loney .263 75%
Ruggiano .259 60%
Young .229 25%

Billz 4.57era 50%
Elbert 4.83 60-75%
Orenduff 6.70 25%

(50% is what PECOTA projected coming into the season, so higher is good, lower is bad)

Denker and Young are the dissapointments. But Abreu and Hu look awesome, especially considering theyre plus defenders. Loney and DeWitt are doing better than you might think, but PECOTA wasnt necessarily high on either of those two coming into the season.

2006-06-12 13:08:11
32.   ToyCannon
28
I remember DodgerCanuck telling us in late April not to worry about LaRoche because his plate control was great in April even though the hits and power were awol. I had my doubts but he was right on the nose.
With all this prospect magic happening it wouldn't surprise me to see Hanrahan make it to the major leagues this year. He threw a shutout in his last game and is doing a solid job on the hottest team in the minors. Any team in baseball could have had him when we released him and they all passed. What a great story it would be if he has resurrected his top prospect status.

Someone is teaching these kids how to throw strikes and miss bats. Check out some of these Jacksonville numbers:
Name/IP/Walks/K's
TJ Nall 44/9/56
OrenDuff 50/19/54
Alexander 29/9/44
Alveraz 33/8/33

I just love pitchers who have a dominance rate higher then 9.0 and have a strikeout to walk ratio > 3.

2006-06-12 13:08:48
33.   Jon Weisman
Inside the Dodgers had this link to a USA Today cover story on the Dodgers.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/dodgers/2006-06-11-cover-rookies_x.htm

2006-06-12 13:14:28
34.   bhsportsguy
30 The only issue is if they promote LaRoche, he is only going to play 3B and they want to play Guzman at 1B, 3B and OF, now maybe they will do it and have LaRoche DH sometimes since they know he can play the position.

But then, based on Matt Kemp's production, they may have no problem promoting him when the time comes.

2006-06-12 13:15:22
35.   sanchez101
I wouldnt get too anything from Hanrahan. He's still not as good now as he was back in 2003, when he won the Southern League ERA title. Also, since he's not on the 40 man roster someone would have to be released or traded to make room for him, so he's a long shot to see the majors. He's doing well for Jacksonville, but his majERA would be 5.40.
2006-06-12 13:20:27
36.   sanchez101
i missed the short discussion on Martin's middle name. I like BlueTrane nickname.
2006-06-12 13:24:00
37.   Telemachos
33 Wonderful to see such a nice article written up by the national media.
2006-06-12 13:24:41
38.   Steve
someone would have to be released or traded to make room for him

Nominees, anyone?

2006-06-12 13:28:31
39.   Marty
I'll take soft-tossing Cubans for $100, Alex.
2006-06-12 13:31:18
40.   sanchez101
I wish Baez could throw something soft, he seems to think that the hitters dont know that he only throws a fastball
2006-06-12 13:32:20
41.   Steve
The problem with trading Baez is that we would most likely get more 40 man roster detritus in return. Much better to DFA his partner-in-crime.
2006-06-12 13:35:54
42.   sanchez101
41. he should be sent into orbit on a rickety russian spacecraft. i maintain that the best option for baez is to keep him around for low-leverage innings, keeping his era low and waiting for the draft pick compensation in the winter.
2006-06-12 13:40:47
43.   bhsportsguy
42 I don't think that it is a lock that the Dodgers even offer Baex arbitration if they don't resign him, with the guys they have in the system and the success of guys like Saito, my understanding is that arbitration would guarantee a salary of 4+ million and I believe they could find other ways to spend it.

The best hope on that front would be the emergence of Broxton, Kuo, Miller with Saito as the bullpen of the future and moving Baez during the season.

2006-06-12 13:43:23
44.   natepurcell
my understanding is that arbitration would guarantee a salary of 4+ million and I believe they could find other ways to spend it.

he already makes 4+ mil. Some team will be willing to offer him a multi year deal. I dont really think there is much risk in offering him arbritration if he keeps his era 3.5 or below.

2006-06-12 13:45:36
45.   blue22
Why is Jose Diaz on the 40-man roster, yet still lurking in AA? If it's service time, shouldn't he be farther along than Jacksonville?
2006-06-12 13:47:54
46.   Jon Weisman
43 - Having nothing to do with Baez ... Saito has been a pleasant surprise, but it's hard to picture him as part of a bullpen of the future. Maybe for 2007.
2006-06-12 13:48:32
47.   Marty
Profane, but nice article on Deadwood:

http://www.salon.com/ent/tv/review/2006/06/11/i_like/index.html

2006-06-12 13:49:50
48.   Steve
He can take a 20% cut in pay through arby. So the bottom line risk is a 3.2 million contract for one year. Right now I agree with 42 -- hunker down, pitch him in seventh innings against the bottom of the order of the Nats, Rockies, Marlins, etc. and keep that Type A. As terrible as he has been, if he keeps that fake ERA, nate is right. If he doesn't, we can just non-tender him at the end of the year.

Ah, that sweet, sweet word -- non-tender. mmmmmmm....non-tender.

2006-06-12 13:56:05
49.   Jon Weisman
48 - I don't understand. Why is the bottom-line risk of arbitration the minimum that Baez can earn? Why wouldn't the bottom-line risk be the maximum he can earn? If he has an ERA at season's end of 3ish, I'm sure he'll be in line for a raise, saves or not. The arbitration system dishes out raises like a magazine dishes out subscription renewal postcards.
2006-06-12 14:00:29
50.   Steve
I shouldn't have said "bottom line." I should have said "minimum." But I just want to hear the word again,

non-tender...

non-tender...

There's a certain poetic symmetry to the word.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-12 14:12:38
51.   ssjames
50

Ideally some team like the Yankees, Red Sox, or Cubs will sign him before the Arb tender deadline, and then we can offer, with no risk and pick up the cheap and easy draft picks. That would be sweet. Although there are bound to be better players signed by those clubs, so we would probably only get a supplemental and a second or third rounder for him.

2006-06-12 14:13:49
52.   ToyCannon
35
Yes but he started out slow and has been working his way up the food chain again. I think something has clicked again or he's healty. I'm not talking about right now but if he continues to shine like he has in the last month then I wouldn't mind seeing him get a shot sometime this year. If this just turns out to be a hot streak that he can't continue with then it is a moot point but if not Carter can be sacrificed without much fanfare.
2006-06-12 14:14:52
53.   sanchez101
A big reason baez would leave rather than accept arbitration is because he could get a multi-year commitment. He might get $4 mil, or more, from arbitration, but he should get at least 2 years and more than $4 million garaunteed in FA. Assuming he keeps his ERA under 4, I doubt he wouldnt get a multi-year offer.
2006-06-12 14:17:43
54.   bhsportsguy
49 Sample of Type A NL relief pitchers at the end of 2005:

Wilson Alvarez, Gio Carrera, Duaner Sanchez.

I think the real risk falls somewhere between 5MM-6MM unless Baez becomes the closer and saves 20-25 games from this point on.

Baez's real value is as a closer, even good middle relievers are not going to get much on the free agent market.

Now maybe there is a team that will view him like a Tom Gordon type but Tom Gordon was much more successful as a closer but when you are on the same team as Rivera, you are not going close.

2006-06-12 14:17:47
55.   blue22
53 - Even without a multi-year offer from another club, LA should make it abundantly clear that he won't be closing games for them here (Broxton!). That should be enough to drive him elsewhere.
2006-06-12 14:22:07
56.   Jon Weisman
51 - I never knew Susan Saint James was such an expert on the Hot Stove League.

53 - Steve Finley is an example of the dangers of assuming someone will leave. Had the Dodgers offered him arbitration, he very likely would have been with the team in 2005. He was looking at close to a $10 million payday in arb following his high-profile 2004 season. Given that I don't think Finley expected to have as poor a 2005 as he did, he would have taken it. I believe his two-year deal is at about $14 million total. In January 2005, a guy like Finley would probably have expected to be able to get at least $5 million for 2006 after earning $10 million in 2005.

That make sense?

2006-06-12 14:22:22
57.   bhsportsguy
51 Though you never know what the Yankees will do, they just signed a multi-year deal with Farnsworth and Rivera shows no sign of slowing down, so I don't think they would be in the market, the Cubs have bigger problems than their closer situation and the Red Sox will have to decide on what to do with Foulke and Timlin before deciding to sign a free agent.
2006-06-12 14:23:50
58.   sanchez101
54. those are terrible examples, alvarez retired, carrera isnt on par with Baez, and sanchez wasnt even a free agent.

If Scott Eyre, Kyle Farnsworth, Bob Howry, Todd Jones, Brandon Looper, Julian Tavarez, Jay Witasick, and Tim Worrell can get multi-year deals Danys Baez will get one.

2006-06-12 14:24:22
59.   ToyCannon
54
The Cubs spent a pretty penny on the likes of Eyre and Howry.

Don't you think it is a bit strange to be disussing a winter move during June when many things can happen that will change the Baez equation during the rest of the actual season.

2006-06-12 14:28:18
60.   sanchez101
56. you neve know exactly how the free agent market will turn out and its up to the GM and his front office to make a judgment call. Finley's situation was a little different than Baez's though. All we're saying is that its very likely that Baez would get significant attention as a free agent, probably enough to make arbitration unnecessary.
2006-06-12 14:29:19
61.   Jon Weisman
59 - Pretty much.
2006-06-12 14:35:08
62.   Steve
Baez + Airplane + No Parachute = change of equation.
2006-06-12 14:37:35
63.   bhsportsguy
61 It's an off-day.
2006-06-12 14:48:02
64.   Eric Enders
Kemp, Martin, and Penny were all nominated for NL Player of the Week but didn't win.

http://tinyurl.com/nmvoq

2006-06-12 14:54:24
65.   Sam DC
Just for a diversion, Michael Wilbon's weekly chats at washingtonpost.com are always entertaining, and often quite thoughtful. My favorite part is every week he runs a question from some or other HOG nut asking about who the Redskin's third string quarterback will be, and then lets loose a good rant about how can people be asking about the Redskins when there's a world full of great sports stories to follow out there.

Today's chat had some interesting comments about how in post-WWII black americans found a haven from racism in Europe, but that seems to be changing for the worse. Also a nice response to a fan who complained that Miami's problem is that they're phoning it in: "You're wrong. Miami is playing as hard as its players can. You sound like Riley...like gritting their teeth and growling and stomping together is going to change the result. It isn't. This isn't about effort. Over-the-top fans always want to zoom in on how a team's effort isn't up-to-par. That's nonsense 90 percent of the time. Miami's players are trying the best they can. They're not quick enough, deep enough to counter what Dallas is doing."

Anyhow, it's a good read: http://tinyurl.com/hm64d

2006-06-12 15:02:17
66.   Jon Weisman
65 - That reminds me of some comments I read a week or two ago that the Dodgers didn't look like they gave a good effort during one loss. It seemed completely invented to me. Like, it couldn't just be that the Dodgers were beaten - it had to be that they were mailing it in.
2006-06-12 15:14:25
67.   bigcpa
Is it just me or is there a strange silence from the local papers regarding the Dodgers/Angels respective starts? Last year by this point we were being lectured about how the Angels were "a better constructed team" etc. etc. Did Randy Harvey mandate Plaschke to stick to human interest stories or what?
2006-06-12 15:17:51
68.   Jon Weisman
67 - Can't say I'm surprised by the silence.

Plaschke's take, I believe, was summed up by his column on Erstad during the Angel-Dodger series last month.

2006-06-12 15:18:48
69.   Eric Enders
67 "Did Randy Harvey mandate Plaschke to stick to human interest stories or what?
-----

I certainly hope so.

2006-06-12 15:21:35
70.   thinkblue0
Baez has said all along that he wants to close..he's been very open about the fact that when he is a free agent he'll only take a closer job. So, offering him arb shouldn't be too big of a risk as long as he knows he won't be our closer.

But whatever, it's too early to be discussing this anyways...also, has Gagne officially hit the DL yet?

2006-06-12 15:21:47
71.   bhsportsguy
66 - Its hard to look good when the other team is playing so well. Does last Monday's loss look more tolerable after Soler's game against D-Backs.

Felix Hernandez shut down the Angels (which one could argue may not be hard thing these days) but often in a game like that, you will hear comments about how lifeless they appear, blah blah blah.

In retrospect, losses against good pitching are often more forgettable than the last starts by Tomko and Perez where decent pitching might have pulled out a win.

BTW Peter Gammons had Elias compute which teams have the most quality starts (don't get me started with the 4.50 ERA) and the Dodgers lead the Majors with 39.

2006-06-12 15:22:01
72.   bigcpa
68 I forgot about his May 21st effort where he called the slumping Angels the "DePodesta Dodgers" with "DePodesta" cleverly inserted as a euphemism for "sucky."

The 2006 Angels are a $100M team pacing for 75 wins. They're actually counting on Darin Erstad to return and spark the offense. The callers on Angel talk want heads to roll- why don't the local columnists?

2006-06-12 15:26:00
73.   Jon Weisman
70 - I think that happens tomorrow, when Kent comes off.
2006-06-12 15:28:15
74.   Eric Enders
Well, it has finally come to this: Dodger Blues is actually predicting the Dodgers to win a postseason series:

"Vin Scully could very well see the Dodgers win a playoff series before he expires."

2006-06-12 15:30:28
75.   bhsportsguy
67 To follow up, both Hudman and Fizz (or is it Phyzz?) were very complimentary about Felix Hernandez during the parts I watched. With Seattle's sweep, the Angels are now 10-7 since calling up Morales, Weaver, et. al. and they have gained no ground on Texas.
2006-06-12 15:34:24
76.   bhsportsguy
72 I think Ken Gurnick and Blill Plaschke are the two worst offenders of bring DePodesta into whatever arguments they are making regarding the Dodgers or baseball in general.
2006-06-12 15:41:29
77.   Strike4
Now that Logan White is being feted as baseball's royal drafter, how do the Dodgers retain and motivate their prince? Job title, money, responsibilities? Where does he go from where's he's at, or does he just keep doing what he's doing?
2006-06-12 15:42:40
78.   Bob Timmermann
Your right to free speech does not extend to writing "DePodesta" in every newspaper column about the Dodgers. --- Samuel Alito in the case of Haskins v. Plaschke (850 US 1016)
2006-06-12 15:45:50
79.   bhsportsguy
78 Bob, where are the parallel cites, that cite does not look very Harvard Blue Book like.
2006-06-12 15:56:23
80.   Bob Timmermann
Schenck vs. U.S., 249 U.S. 47
2006-06-12 15:58:38
81.   confucius
I wonder if Ethier will be more valuable to Ned at the trading deadline because of the Dodgers' lack of left handed power hitters. If you look at the prospect of the Dodgers having Nomar, Kent, Kemp, Laroche, Martin and Guzman all possibly in the lineup next year it seems like they might run into problems against a tough right handed pitcher. Not to mention Furcal does his best hitting from the right side.
2006-06-12 16:02:59
82.   CanuckDodger
77 -- The Dodgers could keep Logan White happy by giving him a harem of green-skinned Orion slave girls, like in Star Trek. Though, maybe that's just what would keep me happy. Never mind...
2006-06-12 16:07:56
83.   natepurcell
kazmir vs verlander right now.
2006-06-12 16:09:38
84.   s choir
I don't think Ethier will be traded anytime soon. Many considered him the top prospect in the A's organization at the time of his trade to the Dodgers. I think Ethier and Kemp make up the backbone of the Dodger outfield for the next few years.

Drew will probably be gone next year, the team is capable of producing runs without him, and there's already have a glut in the outfield even with a couple of guys hurt. I know this is probably risky, but what about trading him at the deadline? We can probably get a great starter in exchange...

2006-06-12 16:13:52
85.   regfairfield
84 Trading Drew would be insane. He's the only player we can count on to actually produce while healthy. Sure what Nomar and the kids are doing is amazing right now, but we can't count on that. Matt Kemp is amazing right now, but we have no way of knowing what he's going to do once the league figures him out. Trading the one person we know will be good is suicide.
2006-06-12 16:14:13
86.   natepurcell
cantu takes verlander deep.
2006-06-12 16:14:44
87.   thinkblue0
84-

UGH!

2006-06-12 16:15:58
88.   thinkblue0
cantu is a really, really nice hitter. Huff, Cantu, Crawford, Gomes...they've got a good lineup.
2006-06-12 16:17:18
89.   dsfan
Jon,

Respectfully, I must disagree that Finley "very likely" would've stayed with the Dodgers via arbitration.

Finley was heavily courted by the Angels and Giants. He was looking at no worse than $12 million, including a guarantee for 2006. IIRC, he got about $14 million. That's a good chunk more than what he stood to get in aribitration.

No question, there was inherent risk in offering him arbitration. You don't want to owe him $10 million. But I don't think it can be shown that it's "very likely" Finley would have opted to take less money to stay with a club that could've made it very clear that it wanted him to move on. You can argue that the Angels would've been less inclined to pay him $14 million if it meant losing a draft pick. How much less? Hard to know. As for the Giants, they prefer to lose their top-end picks, so there was no disincentive.

I'd say that if the Dodgers had played it right and told Finley that they were committed to Bradley in CF -- far and away, Finley's preferred position -- the chances of him accepting arbitration would've been about 25-30 percent. I can more easily accpet that's too much risk for the sake of two draft picks.

2006-06-12 16:17:30
90.   natepurcell
I would trade drew. drew provides a strong vet bat in the dodger sea of kids. if drew opts out then we offer him arb and get two draft picks. but i dont think he will opt out.
2006-06-12 16:22:20
91.   natepurcell
i mean, i wouldn't trade drew. oops
2006-06-12 16:23:02
92.   s choir
85 I agree that it would be insane. But equally insane would be going into the playoffs with the current pitching staff. If the Dodgers want to get an ace for the stretch and the playoffs this year, they're either going to have to give up a major piece of the future, or give up a major piece of the present. Izturis or Perez or some other castoff just won't cut it on the other side of such a deal.

Would it still be unthinkable if the Dodgers were able to get Scott Kazmir? Or Greg Maddux?

2006-06-12 16:24:15
93.   s choir
Or how about Andy Pettite?
2006-06-12 16:25:02
94.   regfairfield
92 If Colletti traded Drew for Maddux, I probably wouldn't do much, but I'd certainly threathen to.
2006-06-12 16:25:52
95.   Buffalo Jones
94 agreed
2006-06-12 16:26:26
96.   Gen3Blue
66 Jon I hope it wasn't my comments that led you to think I thought the D's were mailing it in. About a week ago I was ranting that the D's weren't trying to win a game, but I meant managment. And I may have let emotion best logic.
2006-06-12 16:27:26
97.   s choir
94 95 What if he was also able to replace Drew's production at another position, say, 3B?
2006-06-12 16:27:36
98.   dsfan
77

One can hope that Logan White is as energetic and motivated to excel as he was when he earned his reputation as a great drafter. Many good drafters lose their edge. It's a relentless job. Other good drafters get consumed by ego (football analogy: Bobby Beathard).
Is White in danger on either of those scores? Possibly.
If the Dodgers are looking to motivate him, they can point to last year's draft, which appears ordinary. I'm still not sold on his ability to evaluate pitchers, although I'm encouraged by Billingsley.
As for making White feel appreciated, I suspect he's well-compensated. The key is to give him the resources and backing to do the best job possible. Here's where the club should be lauded for how it handled Hochevar. Rather than suck up to a kid who had reneged on a deal that would've made him the best-paid second-rounder ever, Colletti backed White. Smart move. It's empowering for White when he has to negotiate other high-profile deals. And it's a principled way of backing a productive employee.

2006-06-12 16:29:22
99.   regfairfield
97 How exactly do you replace a guy with a .950 OPS?
2006-06-12 16:32:16
100.   natepurcell
Verlander is so fun to watch because:
1- he works super fast
2- he throws 99 miles per hour.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-12 16:34:15
101.   s choir
99 I bet Colletti could pry away Chipper Jones for Andy LaRoche and a good deal of cash.
2006-06-12 16:35:50
102.   natepurcell
I'm still not sold on his ability to evaluate pitchers, although I'm encouraged by Billingsley.

really? I, for one, feels pitcher evluation is his strength and he is better at that then at evaluating hitters.

2006-06-12 16:36:11
103.   natepurcell
99

what is the point of trading laroche away?

2006-06-12 16:36:22
104.   kngoworld
Commenters continue to mention the Dodgers include cash in their trades. Did I miss something and McCourt suddenly has no more debt problems?
2006-06-12 16:37:04
105.   thinkblue0
trading Drew would be about the dumbest thing we could do.

As far as pitching...we all know we need pitching, the problem is what's the quality out there? Maddux could probably be had for not much...he isn't great, but at least he's solid. Willis is probably the most overrated pitcher in baseball and would cost top prospects, so no dice there. There just isn't much out there. I think our best bet is to nab someone like Maddux who won't cost us the farm and hope Bills is able to contribute.

2006-06-12 16:37:25
106.   bhsportsguy
Let's end this trading Drew topic right here.

1. Drew is making $11M a year.
2. Drew can opt out at the end of this year.
3. If he doesn't opt out, he has $33M guaranteed for 3 more years.
4. Even after this year, veteran players traded during a multi-year contract can demand a trade after that year. (This is a pretty unlikely option but it is part of the CBA)

I think there a lot of other players that teams will ask the Dodgers about, J.D. Drew is not one of them.

2006-06-12 16:38:04
107.   thinkblue0
Jones for Laroche? No thanks.
2006-06-12 16:42:14
108.   kngoworld
Does anyone know anything about this years performance of, the once upon a time golden child of the Dodgers, Edwin Jackson? I am too lazy to look it up.
2006-06-12 16:42:50
109.   bhsportsguy
99 Further, Chipper Jones has 2 more years at $11M guaranteed with a team option for $8 million in 2009 that becomes guaranteed if he has 450 plate appearances in 2008.
2006-06-12 16:44:49
110.   Marty
Maybe it's just me, but I thought 101 was kidding.
2006-06-12 16:45:26
111.   bhsportsguy
How would you guys feel about a package for Greg Maddux including Jae Seo, Lance Carter and James Loney or Delwyn Young?
2006-06-12 16:45:34
112.   s choir
106 A potentially contending team lacking offense (say, the Astros) or with major injury problems that could last all year (like the Yankees) isn't going to care what Drew does after the season is over. As the Mets have shown, time and time again, there's a sucker born every minute.

I'm not saying that Drew is a problem and that the Dodgers won't win if they don't trade him, but shouldn't they be willing to part with him if they are overwhelmed?

2006-06-12 16:46:55
113.   natepurcell
112

but why trade laroche for chipper jones?

2006-06-12 16:47:43
114.   Gagne55
108- He sucks.
2006-06-12 16:48:19
115.   thinkblue0
112-

and why trade Drew? He's been great for us this year, and we're not going to be overwhelmed for him. The Astros won't take on his salary, and the Yanks have nothing to give back.....

2006-06-12 16:48:26
116.   s choir
110 107 No I wasn't kidding. Why not? The kid's in AA, and Chipper's a great all-around player. His offense is just as consistent as Drew's, and we have a hole at 3B that is not as easily filled as one Drew would leave in RF.
2006-06-12 16:49:51
117.   Gagne55
111- The Cubs would laugh at that offer.
2006-06-12 16:51:13
118.   Gagne55
116- What hole at third? Aybar can hit. Mueller is a good player when he gets back.
2006-06-12 16:51:54
119.   dsfan
102-

Nate,

For me, White's better at evaluating hitters/field players. Not that he's terrible with pitchers. I just don't see much touch and feel with his pitchers. For me, they're more throwers than pitchers. But you have to look beyond White there. Are the Dodgers good at teaching their pitching prospects? How many pitchers have their instructors helped to develop? Do they insist on the changeup?
Kind of hard to know. When was the last time the LAD rotation got a good season from a homegrown starting pitcher? I'm digressing a bit here. J
Just take my overall view as a positive -- White's done very well with hitters. I'm encouraged by Bills. Just hope he's gained a semblance of a changeup to go with a bit better accuracy.

2006-06-12 16:52:20
120.   natepurcell
dodger management doing the right thing, they just promoted Laroche to AAA.
2006-06-12 16:52:52
121.   dsfan
118

Thanks. Glad to see I'm not the only Aybar backer.

2006-06-12 16:52:59
122.   Steve
Chipper Jones is old.
2006-06-12 16:53:45
123.   Steve
Good Lord, you can't swing a stick in here without hitting an Aybar backer.
2006-06-12 16:55:47
124.   Bob Timmermann
Just another supporter for Aybar.
2006-06-12 16:56:01
125.   D4P
Not even a short stick.
2006-06-12 16:56:45
126.   natepurcell
119

White selects power pitchers that have the tools to develop 2nd, 3rd, 4th pitches. His top 2 round pitchers from 2002-2004

greg miller
zach hammes
chad billingsley
chuck tiffany
scott elbert
justin orenduff
blake johnson

The only notable bust so far is zach hammes. the rest have enjoyed success in the minor leagues. Miller was unforunate with the shoulder thing or else he would be in the big league rotation right now. After his 2003 yr, he was destined for stardom. Tiffany got fat and lost effectivness.

2006-06-12 16:58:00
127.   bhsportsguy
Just numbers per ESPN.com
Dodgers 3B
.270/.370/.442 7 home runs 40 RBI
Braves 3B
.271/.359/.457 8 home runs 41 RBI

No question Chipper is better than whatever the Dodgers throw out there but he has missed 15 games this year and has had those issues in the past.

2006-06-12 16:58:50
128.   Andrew Shimmin
Okay, so we get Larry Jones to play third, and have Kent back at second. Now, how're we going to get Sheffield back? Offerman might still have another year of SS left in him. Penny for Russ Ortiz. Aybar for Craig Counsell. . .

Really, I think this project to make the all-time most hated Dodger team has promise.

2006-06-12 16:59:36
129.   blue22
126 - Tiffany got fat and lost effectivness.

Do you describe all your ex's this way?

2006-06-12 16:59:40
130.   Jon Weisman
89 - You might be missing my point, though I'm not sure.

In January 2005, had the Dodgers offered Finley arbitration, Finley stood to make around $10 million for 2005.

There was no reason for Finley to think at that point that he wouldn't make at least $5 million in 2006.

Therefore, his combined salary for 2005-06 going the arbitration route figured to be higher than his combined salary signing a two-year deal with the Angels or some other team.

From Finley's POV in January 2005:

2005 arb + 2006 FA - at least $15 million total, possibly a lot more
2005-06 FA - around $14-15 million total

That's how I see it.

2006-06-12 16:59:57
131.   Daniel Zappala
I tend to like a guy who has an OBP over .400 and can OPS near .900. The Angels could use some players like that.
2006-06-12 17:00:30
132.   dsfan
Nate,

I guess we'll find out in a few years. I know minor-league success can be fairly predictive. If two of those guys pan out, he's doing fine.

2006-06-12 17:01:40
133.   natepurcell
129

I only tell it like it is. I enjoyed Big Tiff but I have moved on.

2006-06-12 17:02:55
134.   natepurcell
132

well broxton has panned out, hes ont of our better relief pitchers. Billingsley is on his way in the next week most likely. I am skeptical of Orenduff though only because he hasnt pitched in almost 3 weeks.

2006-06-12 17:03:13
135.   s choir
I like Aybar, but I don't think his power is there.
2006-06-12 17:04:49
136.   natepurcell
I wonder if Andy will be in the Vegas lineup tonight.
2006-06-12 17:05:58
137.   natepurcell
135

aybar's power is more then adaquate at 2b which is where he will reside in the near future when Kent breaks down again.

2006-06-12 17:07:06
138.   thinkblue0
135-

so what? not every player is a HR hitter.

2006-06-12 17:09:17
139.   dsfan
130

Jon, I see your point.

My point is that a two-year guarantee -- which Finley was very likely to get from Angels or Giants -- removes any uncertainty for 2006 at pretty enticing dollars for a guy who's 40 years old.

Further, the Dodgers had some leverage with Milton Bradley, a younger CF. Finley far prefers CF. If told the Dodgers were committing to Bradley in CF, Finley has to weigh the unpleasant scenario of a corner OF job. The Angels and Giants were guaranteed Finley two years to play CF.

I see the risk in offering arbitration, just don't think it was slam dunk that, properly handled, he would've accepted. The relationship between the Dodgers and Finley's agent would've been a factor, too.

2006-06-12 17:10:49
140.   thinkblue0
hey nate,

what are your feelings on Guzman? He's probably the prospect I'm least high on. I dont know, I just don't really see him being the dominant hitter that everyone expects....I love Kemp, Aybar, Laroche, Martin...but for some reason Guzman doesn't tickle my fancy.

Maybe I've got some vendetta against him for an unknown reason, but he's the one prospect we have that I wouldn't really mind if we traded for a nice return...

2006-06-12 17:12:33
141.   Steve
Bobby Bonilla has lost 400 pounds. If he loses that last 150, he might be available.
2006-06-12 17:13:31
142.   s choir
138 I just think it's important to have a power guy either at that position or at first, if not both. Nomar isn't going to hit many rally-killers. Kent at 2B alleviates that somewhat, but you never know with his wrist. Aybar may have to spell Kent as often as he plays third.
2006-06-12 17:13:37
143.   dsfan
132

I guess "panned out" is subject to interpretation. Broxton's done some nice things. I'd love to see it continue. You're more sold on him than I.

2006-06-12 17:14:29
144.   natepurcell
I think Guzman still has really nice potential with the bat but right now, the batting practice power hasnt translated into game power. I saw a lot to like since hes been up here. His strike zone discipline hasnt been as bad as I thought it would be. he is only 21 yrs old and even though he isnt lighting the world on fire, he still is going to be a good mlb hitter IMO.
2006-06-12 17:16:35
145.   thinkblue0
142-

I really don't understand why people feel there HAS to be power hitters at certain positions...you get the offense from wherever you get it. Kent alleviates the power we don't have at third etc etc.

When kent is gone hopefully we've got Aybar at second and Laroche at third...with Kemp and Drew out there as well. s choir, you seem to think that we're struggling offensively when in fact our offense has been phenomenal this year, and is looking good for the future too...

2006-06-12 17:17:23
146.   bhsportsguy
One of the things you hear about young players is how they adjust after a slump, now Russ only had one bad week (1-16, 1 RBI) but since then, he has done .382/.432/.765 with 3 home runs and 10 RBI.

Perhaps a sobering thought, even with the great Junes of Martin and Kemp, the team is 5-5, which has to do more with poor starts and some bullpen blowups but still it is not like they have been the sole reason for the resurgence.

However, they are the most exciting reasons to follow the team for a long time.

2006-06-12 17:20:03
147.   deburns
With Lieberthal about finished, might there not be a fit with Navarro to Philly for pitching? We seem to be doing just fine with Alomar an occasional starter, and in the off season backup catchers are usually a dime a dozen.
2006-06-12 17:21:30
148.   Jon Weisman
Although I've been concerned about Guzman's plate discipline for a while, and although his swing looks like too much arms and not enough drive on the few occasions I've witnessed it, I think it's a little early to be negative on him. Kemp has spoiled us. At age 21, Aybar was in AA ball, Ethier was in A ball. LaRoche is 22 and just reaching AAA. I think if you put those guys in the majors at Guzman's age, they'd have looked a lot worse.
2006-06-12 17:29:09
149.   bhsportsguy
I was really interested to watch Guzman's at bat against Fuentes yesterday, the day before he took to a full count and took a third strike on outside corner, yesterday, he was looking for that pitch and was trying to go with the pitch, he again took Fuentes to a full count before flying out to left field.

The fact that he seems to be working on these things and possibly taking good instruction from his coaches shows some maturity that some have questioned in the past.

I hope he goes down and teams up with LaRoche to lead Vegas to a 2nd half championship.

2006-06-12 17:35:26
150.   Jon Weisman
I gather we'll see Guzman mostly in left field in Las Vegas? Unless Loney is going to play some outfield.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-06-12 17:41:30
151.   s choir
145 Saying that you need a certain amount or type of production out of a position just reflects the market of available players. There just tends to be more power available at the corner outfield positions than there is at third. That's why it's easier to replace a powerful RF than it is to replace a powerful 3B.

Basically what I've been saying throughout this thread is that I would pull the trigger on trading an outfielder OPSing .913 and an unproven prospect for a 3B OPSing .860 and an ace starter.

If you look at this trade objectively, isn't it at least something to consider in light of this team's needs?

If anything, it's more realistic than the Izturis/Perez/Seo/Baez/Guzman for Maddux speculation I've heard around here. You have to dangle something attractive to get what you want.

2006-06-12 17:47:41
152.   confucius
Maddux has nothing left. He's not going to win the Dodgers any playoff games with a 4.68 ERA. Why would the Dodgers give anything for him? Putting Maddux on this team would be an improvement over Perez or Seo but I really don't know how much of a difference it would make in the playoffs.
2006-06-12 17:48:20
153.   bhsportsguy
136 I have not seen an announcement but the roster on the Las Vegas roster shows him as #23 and MILB site has him as being a Las Vegas 51 when you seach for him on their site.

Since Jacksonville had a day game yesterday and they were off today, I have to think that he may have left late yesterday or this morning and will be available tonight.

BTW was there an announcement somewhere, I have not seen it.

2006-06-12 17:49:06
154.   Gagne55
With all the mention of Hanrahan, I looked at Jacksonville's stats. Who is Spike Lundberg? He's having a better season on the mound than Joel, but I've never heard of him before.
2006-06-12 17:49:45
155.   Andrew Shimmin
151- I think your evaluation of Maddux's price is very high, relative to that of anybody else's. The other problem with your scenario is that it's a one year plan, which may not improve this team all that much even this year, for a whole lot of money that, while McCourt may be willing to spend, it seems tough to believe he'd be eager to, given how much he shelled out in the off season.
2006-06-12 17:52:53
156.   s choir
152 Maddux is just an example of an ace. For Drew, you could probably get someone a whole lot better and younger. I'll say it again: Andy Pettite, maybe?
2006-06-12 17:53:38
157.   s choir
Although I guess Pettitte isn't having quite the year I thought he was without checking his stats. :) Strike that.
2006-06-12 17:55:09
158.   DeucesAreWild
You can't stop Dave Ross. You can only hope to contain him.

HR #8.

2006-06-12 17:55:13
159.   natepurcell
156

maddux is an example of an ace? maybe if we were in 1996.

2006-06-12 17:56:51
160.   confucius
157 Even if Pettitte was having a good year he's so old it would not be worth it.
2006-06-12 17:59:20
161.   Gagne55
Maddux is no longer an ace, but I think s choir said that because of Maddux's career perception of an ace.

Does anybody know anything about Lundberg?

2006-06-12 18:01:12
162.   sanchez101
Drew isn't going to be traded, this season or this offseason.
2006-06-12 18:02:44
163.   Steve
You must mean Cristian Guzman, because if you meant to include Joel on that otherwise wastrel list, it will have been one of the stranger assertions I have ever seen, at least from so unlikely a source.
2006-06-12 18:03:01
164.   sanchez101
Lundberg, like Hanrahan, is a career minor leaguer who will be lucky to see AAA this season. He is on the Jacksonville roster to help propell them towards a 2nd straight Southern League championship. Nothing more, nothing less.
2006-06-12 18:05:42
165.   confucius
Are there any aces available? Just about everyone is looking for an ace every July. I haven't heard of anyone available that would really help the Dodgers enough this year that it would warrant trading away a piece of the future. Billingsly will pitch as well as Maddux and he is free.
2006-06-12 18:06:13
166.   s choir
I'll get off the Drew trade since it's been unanimously rejected. But it was fun... and since I think this is my last day of looking at Dodger Thoughts at work, since the bigwigs are going to block pretty much all of our web browsing starting tomorrow, which includes personal web-based e-mail (bastards!) so I wanted to make today worth it.
2006-06-12 18:10:20
167.   Steve
Not unanimously.
2006-06-12 18:10:43
168.   Andrew Shimmin
Drew and LaRoche for a 1/2 season Pettitte rental, and Larry Jones (years 34, 35, and 36, at $12.33MM per, plus an option on 37). Jones's defense at 3B is about as ugly as Aybar's, right now. I don't understand what it is about this deal that you'd like.

Sounds like a FOX deal. Say, what is Kevin Brown up to these days?

2006-06-12 18:11:48
169.   Gagne55
So Lundberg would be expected to be hurt more by a promotion than a typical pitcher would? cause his MLE is probably about that of an average major league pitcher.
2006-06-12 18:12:00
170.   Andrew Shimmin
Oops. You conceded, sorry; must refresh before posting.

167- It wasn't unanimous? So, somebody really was preaching to s choir? I missed it, I guess.

2006-06-12 18:12:25
171.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
A 4.68 ERA isn't all that bad at Wrigley. Last year, he posted an ERA+ of 101 and 225 IP, which is still doable for him this year. I'd be more than happy if Bills could do the same his first year in the big leagues, and I certainly think that Maddux would be an improvement on Tomko, OP, or Seo.

That being said, it all comes down to what we have to give up. Might the Cubs be interested in Izturis, who is by this point all but expendable? I don't think Maddux would be worth either Loney or Young.

WWSH

2006-06-12 18:15:26
172.   Gagne55
171- Of course. You can never have to many middle infielders.
2006-06-12 18:16:12
173.   Steve
I could see trading drew; not for a washup like pettitte or a few league average starts from maddux.
2006-06-12 18:17:54
174.   jujibee
I think as long as we're looking at possibly getting another pitcher, I would like to bring up the possible trade for Kyle Lohse from the Twins. He has pretty much worn out his welcome in Minnesota and I think he can be had for relativly cheap. An Odalis + 5-10 mil or so trade might even do it. They are both decent pitchers who have worn out their welcome and could use a change of scenery. Lohse has had the same problems with his team that Odalis has had, but I think Lohse would be a good fit as a #3.
2006-06-12 18:18:56
175.   Nick Iyengar
Dave Ross is on a Kempian tear right now. 2nd homer of the game.
2006-06-12 18:20:13
176.   ToyCannon
Lundberg is 28 in AA, came from the Mexican League in 2005, signed as a minor league FA 1/10/06. He's been banging around professional baseball since 97.
He has as much chance of helping the Dodgers as Aaron Sele does:)

The difference between Hanrahan and Lundberg is that Hanrahan was once a great prospect at an early age and then lost his way. Sometimes they find their way again so while he is also a career minor leaguer he is only 24.

2006-06-12 18:21:13
177.   ToyCannon
174
If we trade for Kyle Lohse I will throw up.
2006-06-12 18:22:33
178.   sanchez101
Any GM would have to make a Tommy Lasorda sized mistake to trade for Drew, he would almost certainly become a FA in the offseason if he was traded. I cant imagine a contending team trading something really good to us for a couple months of Drew.
2006-06-12 18:23:09
179.   jujibee
Why is that??? It's about the same as having Odalis on the team. Maybe a change of scenery would help both out. They are about the same age and have each shown flashes of brilliance on the mound.
2006-06-12 18:25:03
180.   ToyCannon
I'd trade for Maddox if we were just flipping Seo for him but since we'd be taking on his salary that would be the best I'd offer. He had an incredible April and a pathetic May.

Andy Pettite just a year ago was one of the best lefthanders in the NL. He's having a tough time in 2006 but it is doubtfull he is washed up, but it is doubtfull that the Astro's would trade him since they just signed Clemens and they aren't spending all that money on the Rocket just to twiddle in 3rd place.

2006-06-12 18:28:00
181.   sanchez101
176. ... because he's giving up more than 5 walks per 9 innings, because he hasnt made any progress in three years, and most importantly, because he's no longer on the 40 man roster and passed through waivers in the offseason.

I think the burden of evidence is on the person that might think he's still a prospect. What makes you think he is a prospect?

2006-06-12 18:31:54
182.   natepurcell
laroche is batting 5th for the 51s tonight.
2006-06-12 18:34:38
183.   ddger
182 Is it on Gameday? What's the lineup?
2006-06-12 18:35:20
184.   Uncle Miltie
I brought this up yesterday. What about Odalis for Matt Clement? We might have to throw in some cash too, but both players are underperforming and have similar contracts.
2006-06-12 18:36:15
185.   bhsportsguy
Jon:
Here is another example of a player gritting it out, Erstad being interviewed on the pregame show said he is "good enough" and "no one is ever 100 percent" during a long season. Says he would not put him outself out there if he would jeopardize the team.
2006-06-12 18:37:23
186.   bhsportsguy
183 Yes, lineup highlights Izzy leading off, Dionner is batting 3rd, Loney is in the 4th spot.
2006-06-12 18:37:27
187.   Steve
Kyle Lohse?

[faints]

2006-06-12 18:37:47
188.   Fern
I don't think anyone has mentioned any of the pitchers from pittsburgh. They've got four promising young pitchers and no major hitting prospect that i know of. Couldn't a trade be made there from mutual strengths?
2006-06-12 18:38:55
189.   natepurcell
184

if both are underperforming and both have similar contracts, why would we need to throw in cash?

2006-06-12 18:42:09
190.   Uncle Miltie
189- because Odalis' contract was heavily back loaded. He only made $3 million in the first year of his contract and has a $4.5 million signing bonus that is to be paid over the next two years. I don't think Clement's contract is constructed like that.
2006-06-12 18:42:38
191.   Fern
By promising I mean 25-ish and in the majors. Though that's not a very exacting criteria is it?
2006-06-12 18:43:40
192.   jujibee
187 Yes, Kyle Lohse. Has a low-mid 90's fastball, a good slider and change with an occasional, yet usually effective, curve ball that he doesn't thrown nearly enough. He's 27 years old and still IMO has some upside to him. His attitude is the only bad part about his makeup, and a change of scenery would do good for him.
2006-06-12 18:43:56
193.   natepurcell
clement's contract:
05:$6.5M, 06:$9.5M, 07:$9.5M
2006-06-12 18:44:28
194.   ToyCannon
181
Everything you say is true, but I never said he's currently a prospect, I said he's a great story in post 32 and that it would be great if he did regain his prospect status after being waived and no one claimed him. Once upon a time he was part of the big 3(E Jackson/Miller/Hanrahan) and while time appears to have passed him by, he is pitching better then he has in years. Maybe something clicked with a pitching coach and he's making real progress or maybe it is nothing. Time will tell which one it is.
2006-06-12 18:45:17
195.   bhsportsguy
Nate: One of the more interesting prospects is Sergio Pedroza, now he is older than some of his contemporaries in the Sally league but with his night tonight he leads that league in homers, RBIs, walks and his top ten in OBP and slugging.

He probably should go Vero just to see what his outlook is because he only has one more year after this before they have to decide what to do with him. His negative would strikeouts but maybe he is Adam Dunn wannabe, high walks and Ks but with some solid power.

2006-06-12 18:46:58
196.   natepurcell
195

Pedroza doesnt make enough contact. Even at the lower levels, Dunn made very good contact and had a high BA. Pedroza could become a left handed DH platoon guy though.

2006-06-12 18:47:13
197.   ToyCannon
186
If they promote Ruggiano I might have a reason to go to Vegas again, the lineup is starting to sound interesting again.
2006-06-12 18:47:20
198.   bhsportsguy
[188} Sure, maybe they'll take Mr. "always takes a good at bat" Tomato for them.

Just kidding, nice AB yesterday Tomato, just make sure you can get that double without giving me heart attack next time.

2006-06-12 18:49:13
199.   ToyCannon
I find it very strange that Carlos Santana is playing High A while Pedroza is still in low A.

Now that LaRoche has lit his torch it would be nice for Dewitt to get his going thus leaving only Denker as someone who has a dry wick.

2006-06-12 18:49:58
200.   Sam DC
Jamey Carroll, righteous utility man and now starting 2B, sold to the Rockies by Jim Bowden for round $300K, has gone 3-5 with an RBI against his old team tonight. He did manage to get CS by Schneider in the top of the ninth; one'd think he would know better.

Gigantor pitched two solid innings after a few shaky outings in a row.

Rockies up 4-2 going into the bottom of the ninth.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-06-12 18:52:38
201.   natepurcell
199

for the last year or so, I have been conversing with someone who is a family friend of the Dewitt family and he gives me updates on Dewitt every now and then. A couple of days ago he told me that Blake has been really frustrated lately because he is trying to get his swing back. Earlier in May he was going really well but then a Vero Beach coach told him to try hitting the ball in the ground more and since then it has really messed with his head. He told me that apparently the Dodger higher ups were furious that the VB coach told Blake there and the last couple of weeks, he has been working to get his orginal swing back. take that for what its worth.

2006-06-12 18:53:31
202.   ToyCannon
Ever since Matt Clement got whacked by the comebacker last year he has been one of the worse pitchers in the AL. I would flip OP for him straight up, a nice change of scenery for both pitchers. It would appear that the big 4 from the Marlins are all having a tough time in the AL East.
Pavano-DL Boy
Beckett - hot start, now looks like Weaver
Burnett - still waiting to see if he'll ever pitch this year
Clement - Yikes
2006-06-12 18:55:20
203.   Uncle Miltie
Earlier in May he was going really well but then a Vero Beach coach told him to try hitting the ball in the ground more and since then it has really messed with his head.
That coach needs to be fired immediately. It's not like he's a speedster with no power potential.
2006-06-12 18:56:03
204.   natepurcell
203

trust me, i was in shock when i hear that dropping F bombs left and right.

2006-06-12 18:59:00
205.   sanchez101
"hitting the ball in the ground more"
- did Micky Hatcher sneak into the Vero Beach clubhouse?
2006-06-12 19:02:04
206.   Sam DC
Since he came off the DL, Jose Guillen has started two games. In each of them, he went 2-3, with 2 RBIs, 1 run scored, and a walk.
2006-06-12 19:09:17
207.   bhsportsguy
201 VB has a brand new coaching staff this year, Dewitt only was named the best hitter for average in his first 2 years by Baseball America. Maybe they should just promote him up to AA and send Abreu to Vegas.
2006-06-12 19:09:43
208.   Steve
Who the hell hired back Jim Tracy and let him near prospects? Fire Ned Colletti!
2006-06-12 19:13:47
209.   natepurcell
ervin santana really needs to cut his hair. its bordering on gross.
2006-06-12 19:21:19
210.   Steve
192 -- By the way, that's four pitches to Odalis's zero pitches. If Lohse had all that, wouldn't we have to give them more than Oh-Oh-Odalis?
2006-06-12 19:22:27
211.   natepurcell
why is the LV game delayed?
2006-06-12 19:26:30
212.   CanuckDodger
201 -- That makes so much sense, about lousy coaching in Vero. With a record of 23-40, the Vero Beach team has been a disgrace, and most of the legitimate prospects on the team have performed poorly. I have been thinking for some time that something must be fishy on that team, but had no report of what might be wrong. Those kids are too impressionable at that age to withstand bad coaching for any length of time. A prospect can be ruined by a bad coach in a matter of weeks or months.
2006-06-12 19:27:53
213.   ToyCannon
192
You may be right I just don't like him.
2006-06-12 19:28:38
214.   natepurcell
212

I just hope dewitt gets back on track. It should be a shame if this hangs with him for the whole year.

2006-06-12 19:31:53
215.   confucius
209 Just bordering?
2006-06-12 19:34:37
216.   bhsportsguy
211 Travel problems for the visiting team, game start moved to 7:35 p.m.

201 Too lazy to add all the numbers, after a poor start, Dewitt had raised his average to .324 on May 12th, it has now dropped to .268 through last weekend.

212 I will say that there is no comparison to last year's VB team to this one, last year they had LaRoche for half a year, Abreau, Kemp, and Hu. This year aside from Dewitt and Elbert, no big time prospects. However, that should not equate to the record they have and if they are receiving that kind of coaching, no wonder they are struggling.

2006-06-12 19:35:05
217.   Uncle Miltie
What about Cory Dunlap? Did he really need to repeat A? He controls the strike zone and hit for a pretty decent average. This year, he has been terrible. Something is not right in Vero. When the Dodgers drafted Dunlap, I loved the pick. He has a really smooth left handed swing, very similar to Mo Vaughn's.
2006-06-12 19:36:41
218.   bhsportsguy
Maybe he can buy the team dinner at one of the buffets after the game. Kaz Matsui is playing for the Colorado Springs team tonight in Vegas. Has to be the highest paid player in the minors that I can think of right now (not on a rehab assignment or Roger Clemens)
2006-06-12 19:37:16
219.   natepurcell
He has a really smooth left handed swing, very similar to Mo Vaughn's.

his body is also similar to Mo Vaughn's.

2006-06-12 19:37:39
220.   bhsportsguy
217 Conditiioning issues, which has always been a problem, was one of the reasons he is in VB.
2006-06-12 19:38:33
221.   bhsportsguy
219 Nate is much crueler than I am but obviously he is nicer about lefty pitchers than power seeking first baseman.
2006-06-12 19:40:28
222.   Andrew Shimmin
Speaking of Corys, did other people hate Cory Snyder as much as I did? I don't remember if I even had a reason, but I loathed Cory Snyder. He's a little old, so maybe he could be the batting coach on my all-villain team.
2006-06-12 19:41:34
223.   bhsportsguy
Just hanging on for LaRoche's first at bat and any gossip about Chad
2006-06-12 19:41:37
224.   dsfan
Sorry if this has been covered, but who are the VB coaches?
2006-06-12 19:41:47
225.   Uncle Miltie
219- I know he used to be really fat when we drafted him (at least 250 pounds), but now every site has him listed at 6'1 205. I think the Dodgers made a poor decision holding him back, especially since he was drafted out of a JC.
2006-06-12 19:41:47
226.   D4P
222
Was it the peachfuzz pornstache...?
2006-06-12 19:46:48
227.   natepurcell
I know he used to be really fat when we drafted him (at least 250 pounds), but now every site has him listed at 6'1 205. I think the Dodgers made a poor decision holding him back, especially since he was drafted out of a JC.

he slugged .398 last year. I would have held him back too.

2006-06-12 19:50:14
228.   bhsportsguy
225 Back in March, Roy Smith was interviewed in Baseball America, this is long but here are his comments about Cory Dunlap.

"Cory can hit, but he has to get in shape," Smith said. "I was with Walter [Young] in Pittsburgh, and he's one of the nicest kids in the world--one of my favorites. But you can't play at 300 pounds. You can't. There's a reason why he's bounced around. You just can't do it.

"But with Cory, we have hopes with him. We're contracted with API (Athletes Performance Institute) and we've had them talk to him about nutrition and having a consistent approach with his diet. We're going to do our best to get the most out of this kid, because we think he can hit. We're going to try to show him that we care. He just has to get in better shape."

2006-06-12 19:59:51
229.   Uncle Miltie
228- I remember reading that article. Still every site I've looked at has him listed at 6'1 205. That is not fat at all. The problem is, he's hitting under .220 and still not displaying power.

227-
James Loney's full season at Vero:
.276/.337/.400
Cory Dunlap at Vero:
.291/.382/.398

I realize that Loney was 2 years younger, but Dunlap displayed a very advanced approach, not only walking a lot, but also proving to be a good contact hitter. Loney was a bonus baby who has all the tools that scouts love and was more "projectable", so they promoted him to Jacksonville. In Jacksonville, Loney completely bombed, partly due to injuries, partly due to being completely overmatched. Last year, he repeated Jacksonville and had a nice season, showing a more patient approach, but still not hitting for much power. If Dunlap was built like Loney and was a 1st round pick, I guarantee you he would have started the season in AA.

2006-06-12 20:03:36
230.   bhsportsguy
229 That article also mentioned that he was not 205 but 260, I this was an issue in high school as I recall then he worked on it and lost 70 pounds before being drafted.

BTW Andy LaRoche just hit a home run in his first at bat in AAA.

2006-06-12 20:03:56
231.   heato
LAROCHE!
2006-06-12 20:04:02
232.   natepurcell
hahahaa oh andy. nice hit!
2006-06-12 20:10:15
233.   Underbruin
Jeez, I really hope we trade that LaRoche guy. Who'd want somebody like HIM on the team, with all those home runs to kill rallies...
2006-06-12 20:11:46
234.   bhsportsguy
Kind of funny, the 51s radio announcer was just telling his audience that the Dodgers may soon be getting guys off their DL and then send them (the 51s) some help.
2006-06-12 20:12:53
235.   Underbruin
Regarding Dunlap -

"Paging Jeremy Brown? Jeremy Brown, to the white courtesy phone, please?" =P

2006-06-12 20:13:05
236.   natepurcell
233

he has killed only the rally 10 times this year.

2006-06-12 20:14:22
237.   natepurcell
236

You idiot, you can't even type. You meant to say he has killed the rally only 10 times this year.

2006-06-12 20:16:17
238.   Underbruin
236 - Which, as you noted in 14, before his shot today was tied for 7th in the Southern League.

Speaking of killing rallies, how are we on the Nomar Garciaparra Homer Watch (tm)? Is he only allowed 2 HR for the entire rest of the season?

2006-06-12 20:18:23
239.   bhsportsguy
If Chad does come up, they might promote Hanrahan back up AAA to fill his spot. I know Jon mentioned this in an earlier post but I could see some rotation between Loney, Guzman, Young playing some combination of 1B, OF and DH. Guzman will probably get an occasional start at 3B and LaRoche will DH.

How this affects Joel's value and development, we will have to wait and see but since there are no issues with Loney's and LaRoche's fielding, I certainly see this as something the Dodgers will want to try.

2006-06-12 20:18:56
240.   Jon Weisman
LaRoche deserved his own headline on DT.
2006-06-12 20:57:34
241.   Andrew Shimmin
Looking at Gott's numbers, he was pretty good, four of his five years in LA. I think I may have been confusing him with Kevin Gross, whom I hated very much.
2006-06-12 20:57:58
242.   Andrew Shimmin
Oops, wrong thread.

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