At what point does Gagne become the Dodger version of Kerry Wood, or are we past that point?

Seriously, is Rich Harden in Prior and Woods class yet?

Maybe someone is leaving the roster via trade, and it's not quite settled yet...

3 - Certainly possible, but it still wouldn't explain why Gagne should remain active. I find it hard to believe he's suddenly 100 percent, even by current standards, and he shouldn't pitch at anything less.

Not being a pitching expert but I wonder if Chad is coming up, will they want him here in time to throw on the side in prep for his first start and if he is going to pitch against the Padres maybe they want him here so he can see them play.

If that is the case, simply putting Gagne on the DL won't cut it, they will need to extend someones 15-day to 60-day (Mueller, Repko or Ledee) or cut someone.

It will probably be the DL move, that delays the decisions on Seo, Perez for a couple of days.

The Bison is on with Steve and John on KSPN 710 here in LA right now. Sorry no internet access.

The move of someone to the 60-day is easily done. And I assume with Kent back, Joel Guzman will go down to AAA to create an active roster spot for Billingsley.

They could send Guzman down now, but it would just make me really uncomfortable to think that they plan to use Gagne this week. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems wrong to me.

Why? Why? Why?!!! :)
How long can they hold off on the decision?
vr, Xei

Really, I should just shut up until the announcement comes. I'm just wasting energy.

There is probably just some official logistics and bureaucracy they have to deal with first before telling all of us about it. My guess is it really is: Kent up (done), Guzman down, Gagne down, Billingsley up.

The suspense isn't killing me, but it did make my eyebrow twitch for just a second.

Anyone near a radio who wants to summarize what the Bison had to say on 710?

6

can you give us a rap up of what he said?

how long was he on? I tride tunning in but...(Kemp)

I would like to know if C-Bill is coming up to pitch Friday in particular, because then I may try to get a ticket to that game up here in Oakland. Hope they decide sooner than... Friday.

Maybe they can send Odalis P down... to the Gulf Coast League...

11 First he thanked everyone for his new handle, "Bison."

He sounded really confident, he said back in spring, he wanted to make the Show but when he went to AA, he worked hard and he is not surprised to be here and doing well.

And I don't mean to imply that he sounded cocky, just that quiet confidence that comes from hard work and the knowledge that he belongs here.

He says the clubhouse is great, the veterans (Kenny, Nomar, Kent) are telling them things and everyone is having fun.

Jon, continuing from the last thread, Alanis Morrisette's "Ironic" was the worse thing for defining irony for generations to come.

this whole Gagne not on the DL thing is pretty mysitfying...not to mention he's now holding a spot hostage in my fantasy league which I could use to activate Jose Guillen.

16 But 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife? Doesn't that get at man's folly and mock the fitness and rightness of things?

16 True

Inconvenient would have been a more apt title.

20 We always called that song "Bummer."

Come on guys its like when its a free ride and your'e already there.

22 We arrived in Paris on one particular day in June, 2003, just after a two-day Metro strike ended. We bought Metro tickets at a machine, validated them, and got on the subway. When we arrived at our destination, a kind friend advised us that the Metro was free all day that day -- the Metro's way of apologizing to the citizens of Paris for the strike.

So, indeed, we got a free ride when we'd already paid. It was, in a word, a bummer.

With Kent in the line-up, don't they have to make a roster move by game time?

What is the rule on that?

They've already made the move. Thier just playing at managing the news cycle. Which is irritating and suspicious.

16

now that's funny!!

from baseball to a chick song??

Ew, ew, ew. They're.

You can make roster moves up to game time. Remember when Wilton Guerrero was told he was traded as he was getting ready to lead off the game. Eric Young came out of the dugout, tapped him on the shoulder and took his place. Young was activated off the DL. This happened at Shea Stadium.

Bobby Valentine blew a gasket over that.

With Arizona DFAing Russ Ortiz, how long till we DFA Odalis?

[16] you mean "worst"?

anyway, i'm sick of this too, but i will defend irony. from dictionary.com:

"An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning."

to give a nickname that evokes probably the most recognizable athlete on the planet to a relatively unknown rookie who, though good, doesn't deserve nearly that type of acclaim, must have been done with at least some irony, and not in a completely straightforward exuberant manner.

and to defend intersport comparisons, are not the brazilians the yankees of soccer?

31 Nah, the Brazilians are not so hated. Yankees buy their talent. The Brazilians develop their own.

I do not see how Brasil being like the Yankees helps the argument haha.

[32] i'm sure some of their HOF players were developed. in fact, they've still got jeter, posada, rivera, and williams. and i'm too young to know where mantle, dimaggio, berra, etc.. etc... came from, but i assume many of them from before the free agent era were developed.

31

People like the Brazilians. I think they are helped by having some of the most attractive fans in the world.

The Yankees cannot make that claim.

No offense to Alex or Cliff.

they're attractive sure, but what about their artificial enhancements? :)

The Dbax may finally have someone in the management seat that knows what they are doing. I'm surprised they DFA'ed Ortiz and ate that contract, but it was a good move. Whats most suprising is that Moorad signed off on it, even though he's the one that signed Ortiz. Byrnes must be a good communicator.

34 That just makes me feel really old.

Ruth: see Curse of the Bambino
Gehrig: signed out of Columbia University
Joe D.: signed out of PCL-SF Seals
The Mick: signed out of Okie

The current system for U.S. born players (and Puerto Rico) is the draft which started in 1965 or 1966. All international players are still on the open market.

yeah, i knew where ruth came from, that's why i didn't mention him :)

so anyway, does my point still hold or what?

39 Depends on your point of view, before the draft, they did go out and acquire talent because they had the money to do so, afterwards, if you are talking HOFs, Reggie, Catfish Hunter and Winfield were bought and we are still waiting to find out (as far as I can remember) about Guidry, Mattingly, and Jeter. A-Rod and Randy Johnson are probables but again they were basically bought.

Kansas City was a defacto farm team for the Yankees as well in the 50's and 60's.

The Brazil/Yanks comparison is fair. People don't hate the Yankees because they buy their talent. They are hated because they win all the time. That kind of success just gets boring. I hate the Braves for the same reason.

I lost a lot of respect for Jack Nicholson when I saw him on the Dodgervision at the Dodgers/Yankees series in 2004, wearing a gold Yankees cap. It's one thing to root for the Lakers, or to root for the Yankees, but its quite another to root for both. There's no organic reason to do so. The only people I know who are both Yankees and Lakers fans are insecure weenies who can't stand being a fan of a losing team.

But I agree about the hot Brazilian fans. That almost redeems them.

41 Was? Aren't they still (for all practical purposes)? :)

Good Lord, Phil Garner is a moron.

43
Once upon a time very long ago the Royals kicked the Yankee's hynies. It was a great rivaly and the George Brett playoff home run off of Gossage is still one of my favorite memories. Of course I'll find out from someone it wasn't Gossage but my mind thinks it was.

42
An actor being an insecure weenie. I wonder what the odds of that are?

So I expect the cry of dispair about Ned will reach epidemic proportions when he signs his old pal Russ Ortiz to a minor league deal:)

A Martinez just announced that Gagne has been put on the DL retroactive to June 7th.

45
Nope, it was Gossage.

47 Y'know, I was feeling pretty good about the state of things, and the Dodgers, until you had to go and put that awful thought in my head. I won't sleep well tonight...

Grittle said Penny and Tomko will finish the series in San Diego and in Oakland, the Dodgers will have Perez, Lowe and Sele.

51 Maybe he didn't get the memo.

oh my goodness, twins game, special alert...

santana has 11 strike outs through 5IP so far.

Does that end the Chad watch for this week?
Sele should have imploded twice by then but OP will pitch a good game.

54 Let's see if he makes his next start, if he does then the Chad watch can wait until they get home next week.

We are officially in the 2004 Nomo Walking Corpse State of Denial Period. Great.

46 Or Jack grew up in New Jersey (it looks like an hour away from the Bronx) in the 40s and 50s.

He moved out to LA before the Lakers moved here.

I can't say that I fault him for being a Yankees fan from his youth and a Lakers fan. I think he is one of the few original Lakers season ticket holders (from when the Lakers didn't even have a local radio deal).

Not that I'm defending Jack, but I think there is some rationale as to why he roots for both teams.

Why in the world is Odalis allowed another chance to start?

51

I like Tomko out there

53

some of us don't have "special packages"

55

home next week sounds pretty darn good.

Santana is at 12 Ks now. I happened upon this game by accident.

Ok, who is in control of pre-game celebrations for the Miami Heat?

They had a black man dressed in Japanese attire surrounded by taiko drummers The man was waving the Miami Heat flag (it suspiciously looks like the flag of Japan), which is a red basketball in the middle of a white flag.

60
Hey, I'm 100% natural.

From the other thread... Guo is the Chinese Mainland spelling, Kuo is the Taiwanese spelling.

So no Bills next week? Damn it! But it is the right thing, no need to bring him up, unless it is for keeps.

Remember the saga of Edwin Jackson.

Jeff Francoeur continues to amaze, for all the wrong reasons.

Ok, last year people thought he swung at everything. 257ABs 58Ks 11BBs

This year he's actually worse:
269ABs 55Ks 4BBs

I'm beginning to think that the Braves didnt win last year bc of their kids, but rather Andruw Jones having a career season. McCann looks like the real deal, but he's not that much better than Johnny Estrada. Langerhans/Johnson are 4th OF'ers. Francoeur should probably be bussing it in AAA. As for pitching, its too early to tell on Kyle Davies.

At this point, I think the Braves farm kids have been overrated.

Billingsley should be up for keeps, instead we have Odalis Perez who clearly knows something incriminating about Grady Little from their days in Atlanta.

McCann looks like the real deal, but he's not that much better than Johnny Estrada.

what the....???

Bills should be the #5, right now, if the Dodgers could commit to that situation. But of course, they are stuck messing around with Sele, Seo, and Perez (damn, Perez, and his $9,500,000).

Since they cannot or will not commit to Bills, let him ripen in Vegas.

Bills should be the #5, right now, if the Dodgers could commit to that situation. But of course, they are stuck messing around with Sele, Seo, and Perez (damn, Perez, and his $9,500,000).

Since they cannot or will not commit to Bills, let him ripen in Vegas.

Bills should be the #5, right now, if the Dodgers could commit to that situation. But of course, they are stuck messing around with Sele, Seo, and Perez (damn, Perez, and his $9,500,000).

Since they cannot or will not commit to Bills, let him ripen in Vegas.

59-

I like Tomko out there

uhhh...why?

Not only does Santana throw K's, but he gives private fishing lessons.

varitek homers. Santana could possibly get a loss here...unbelievable.

Brad McCann is not that much better then Johnny Estrada like Russ Martin is not that much better then Jason Phillips.

Santana has a chance to throw 20 K's and lose the game.

76. Are you unfamiliar with Johnny Estrada's production at the big league level?

This is crazy talk, particularly since Johnny Estrada is 30.

sure, a career 730OPS and he is already 29 yrs old and a terrible defensive catcher whereas McCann is 22 yrs old and has a career 846OPS and is a pretty good defensive catcher who is only going to get better.

77 it will now be very tough for Santana to throw 20 Ks and lose the game. He has 13 through 7.

Well, let's see how Sele does tonight of course - and I think we're all in that "waiting for the other shoe (implosion) to drop" mentality with him - but especially if he does well again tonight I'm willing to actually bump him out of the "lumped in with Odalis and Seo" category. I wonder how many more quality starts he needs before we all sort of accept him (not as savior but at least as decent #4).

(Not that one night should decide someone's season one way or another, mind you...)

78
Are you familiar with the fact that McCann has an 950 OPS as a 22 year old catcher?

Cuddyer bails out Santana.

Don't want to jinx anything but one nice thing about this team is that even if Sele pitches poorly, this team can still come up with five or six runs without breaking a sweat.

Estrada still makes nothing salary wise and is in his prime. So if you're talking value, I think he's more valuabe right now than McCann is. (if he's a better player RIGHT NOW, which I think he is).

McCann probably will end up the better player when he's 26-28, but he'll also be making 6-9 mils a year by then.

Estrada's value, like all players, is tied to his salary. McCann making nothing isnt that much more valuable than Estrada making nothing right now.

Estrada's injured year last year also distorts his career numbers.

You would rather have Estrada right now then McCann right now? I still dont see how when McCann is outproducing Estrada offensively and defensively.

82
If Sele was left handed I could possibly accept the fact that he might have a Moyer type resurrection after the age of 35 but since I can never recall a soft tossing RHP past 35 who was already done come back with long term success I'd be willing wear a Giant hat at a Dodger game if Sele pitches capably the rest of this year.

also, Estrada makes 2 mil this season whereas McCann is on his rookie salary.

This line of argument should simply be withdrawn.

LOL.. Eric Byrnes just made one of the dumbest plays even for him. He hits a 1-out double, then gets picked off 2nd base. Chad Tracy next pitch hits a home run.

You still showed me anything to convince me Estrada is the better player right now then McCann.

still havent

86 According to ESPN, Estrada is making $2 million this year. Relatively speaking, it isn't much but he isn't making rookie type of money either.

I would assume that he is going to be arb eligible next year and he salary is going to jump quite a bit but he is going to be old.

At least when McCann hits arb, he will be somewhat young.

Estrada's best year: .314/.378/.450 102 career rate2.

McCann's career: .310/.371/.461 101 rate2.

86
Isn't a 30 year old catcher on the other side of his prime. All of your arguement would have merit if you weren't trying to compare him to McCann. Just because Franceour blows, don't bring down the best young hitting cather in the NL with him.

I'm just glad that JoeyP isnt holding his high standards for prospects only to Dodger farmhands. He spreads the wealth evenly! :)

Estrada isnt a bad defensive catcher.
As for this present season, I'd rather have Estrada bc he's in his prime and a little more proven than McCann is. Plus he still doesnt make much in terms of salary.

I dont think Brian McCann will keep up his present numbers. I think he'll of course be better by the time he's 25-28, but I think an ideal player to have is one making nothing and in his prime. Thats what Estrada is.

I am just amazed by the arguments that go on here.

To go back to an old topic, just saw McCourt's little "In His Own Words" thing. I think what he said was taken wrong. He didn't seem to take credit for the farm system's improvement. He was just saying it had improved recently and unfortunately used his tenure as a time marker. That may sound like splitting hairs but I didn't think it was that offensive.

Eh, I guess I'll agree to disagree. Dodger game is almost on, lets not flood this thread with Brave's talk.

Why would it be such a travesty if Santana lost a game in which he K'd 20? Steve Carlton lost a game in which he struck out 19.

Randy Johnson K'd 20 in 9 innings and got a no decision.

It's time for Dodger Baseball. Not the best five words you could hear but some pretty good ones right now.

Sad to say but Sele is our number 3 starter, not number 4.

In case anyone forgot, Trett Bomko still sucks.

You still showed me anything to convince me Estrada is the better player right now then McCann

Why would I have to?

This was my original statement: "McCann looks like the real deal, but he's not that much better than Johnny Estrada."

I think I've reasonably shown why I believe McCann to not be that much better than Estrada.

Santana still has 13 Ks and he's pitched 8 innings.

So unless Joe Mauer has a really bad inning behind the plate in the 9th, it looks like Santana won't be getting 20.

102

because that amount of dominance should be rewarded with a win!

This is actually an interesting debate...

From a long-term perspective, McCann would be the player to select.

From a here and now view, Estrada would be the man.

If I were the Braves, I use McCann. Atlanta is not winning this year and they could use the season to further develop McCann.

102
Cause he's on my DT roto team:)

105
When Johnny Estrada was 22, he was in the minors.

He "burst" on to the scene at age 25 with an OPS+ of 63!

105 If McCann is currently cheaper and is better than Estrada, then why bring up the money thing?

Based on the stats posted earlier, they are essentially the same player except one is cheaper and has room to improve while the other one is more expensive and is 30 and is closer to decline.

I'm not sure which I'm more concerned about -- the assertion that Estrada is better than McCann or that two people believe it.

109 ROTO?!?!?! ECK!!! Diamond Mind Baseball...all the way....

111 I'm proud of my run on sentence.

way to get lucky in that inning chan ho.

110 Estrada "burst" onto the scene in the same way that the "young" LoDuca did.

Are you guys trying to argue with JoeyP? Try moving a mountain.

Dear Soon-To-Be Ex-Twin Manager Ron Gardenhire,

If you are going to start batting for people, you might as well start at Luis Rodriguez.

Best,

Steve

115

Nomar hit a rope!

Gameday doesn't list Gagne. Hope he takes it easy recovering.

117

LOL!

119

and furry slapped it really far.

111. Bc its acknowledged around baseball that the Braves won last year bc of their kids. I'm just pointing out that their best prospect (McCann), didnt really improve them that much. And the other kids really havent proven to be very good.

Geez...I am stuck with GameDay...My two year old is watching Dora The Explorer and the wife has the other television hogged up..

izturis just made a throwing error in vegas. its only fitting furcal copied him.

Enter Cesar

E for Izturis in Vegas.

A friend and I had a long argument about who was the better defensive shortstop...Furcal or Izzy....Boy was he wrong...

Sorry guys but watching Mike Pizza still STINGS [wiping tears as I speak]

The curse of Michael coming up

129 Piazza is a puss.

Mike Pizza is a greek god!

is that a man crush?

128- No way to know who you had in that argument. For the record, Izturis is the better defensive shortstop and I doubt you could find a scout who would disagree.

131

I think "puss" in that sense is frowned upon by Jon.

I'd stick with "wuss".

The D-Backs announcers just fell all over themselves while discussing the DFA of Russ Ortiz. Made it sound heroic, how this move "sends a clear message to the fans..." Also, there was praise for Ortiz "the man."
Yeesh.

Everyone jumps at the bit to show Cesar's futility.

133 - I had Izzy, this was before the injury or the signing....

132
Pretty much.

Here comes James Loney Sr.

138

You got a Nick Markakis jersey?

Should have tested Kemp.

132 Wouldn't Piazza be more of a Roman god?

As I was saying...

please play defense.

so who's better Furcal or Izzy (wathing that play??)

Fookie Offerman?

I would spin the word Greek into a play on words, but I do not want to push it on my first day.

Lofton is brutal out there.

That was laughibly bad.

145

As of right now, Furcal (he is not coming off an injury). A year and a half ago, Izzy...

Is it ironic that all the world could talk about back in March was Furcal's great defense?

our up the middle defense is atrocious.

Oh man, Lofton is awful. He continues to jump at balls hit right at him. Horrible misplay by the Gold Glove All Star.

There's a reason they (well, I) call him Gaffy.

145- As of right now, Izturis. As of anytime, Izturis.

Well, giving up bases-clearing doubles to Vinny Castilla basically signals an end to the Sele Train too.

Third ball in three weeks where lofton jumps to rob a ball that hits the lower half of the fence. Good lord, somebody get that guy some depth perception.

This is a poor start to the evening.

Sele's bubble got bursted by his own teammates.

Furcal's going to get some angry stares in the dugout.

156 - any other center fielder in the Dodger system (A ball to major league roster) catches that ball.

Does anyone have a legit scouting report for Izzy's time in Vegas right now?

How does the arm look? I assume everything else is okay except for rust.

From the AP:
SAN DIEGO (AP) — Los Angeles closer Eric Gagne was placed on the 15-day disabled list on Tuesday because of stiffness in his surgically repaired pitching elbow and the Dodgers activated second baseman Jeff Kent, who had been out with a sprained left wrist.
Gagne earned his first save in nearly a year on June 6 by striking out two in a perfect ninth inning in an 8-5 victory over the New York Mets, but said afterward he wasn't 100 percent. The right-hander went on the DL retroactive to June 7.
Gagne had surgery April 7 to remove a nerve from his right elbow, his second operation in less than a year.
The nerve that was removed was the same one that was moved during a season-ending operation on June 24, 2005.
Gagne, a three-time All-Star who holds the major league record of 84 consecutive successful save opportunities, pitched a scoreless inning June 2 against Philadelphia in his first appearance of the season. His outing against the Mets was his second.
Manager Grady Little doesn't know if Gagne will be ready to be activated when he's eligible.
''We have our hopes, but we have to go by what's going on in his elbow,'' Little said. ''And right now, we don't know what's going on in that elbow. We're just trying to get him back to where he can pitch.''

Furcal needs to be fined 5,000 dollars for every error he makes.

153

that play didn't have to hapen if Rafael Furcal makes the play

161. If thats the case, what will it take for Lofton to swallow his pride and play LF, letting Kemp play CF?

165 Indeed, but that doesn't excuse Lofton's crappy play.

164

We are stuck with him. I think he was a horrible signing, but most disagree with him. Not as horrible as signing Kent an extension...

I miss Izzy to Cora.

r.

164- at least he has range and decent instincts. He could also be drunk. Lofton doesn't have any excuse. He's not even being given errors for these misplayed flyballs. Kenny Lofton makes Tom Goodwin look like a gold glover.

165 -- But he didn't, and yet the earth still must rotate on its axis, Aaron Sele must not throw floaters to washed-up psuedo-hitters, and Kenny Lofton must catch catchable fly balls.

166
What will it take for Lofton to ride the pine and let Ethier and Kemp take their rightful positions in the outfield ahead of him?

Is there a stat to measure unearned runs contributed to a fielder?

171 You becoming the manager.

Nobody has a more gorgeous strikeout swing than J.D. Drew.

Miltie if you had to pick a CF'er, which would would you pick?

Bernie Williams or Kenny Lofton?

For what it is worth...

Kenny's Rate2 - 95

Furcal's Rate2 - 91

Today, Aybar dips below .300 and stars returning back to our universe from the bizarro baseball universe.

If I was in Little's place, after the second error, I'd have walked onto the field and taken away Furcal's glove as a public humiliation and brought in Ramon Martinez.

Ugg. Lofton misplayed that flyball. There was no reason to leap.

Updated Least Popular Dodgers of All-Time

1. Danys Baez
2. Jeff Kent
3. "Gaffy" Furcal
4. Tom Niedenfuer

166

AGREED

175- Does it mean anything that Torre chose Bernie out of those two?

179 Where is Jody Reed or Delino DeSheilds?

166 When he stops hitting .320.

Where's Mr. Tomko?

13 million for a slap hitting error prone mid infielder coming off Knee surgery. Sweet.

Bernie's(Ned) faded out baby blue T shirt under his white sportscoat reads: T.G.F.T.Ks

(Thank God For The Kids)

179- I <3 Jeff Kent and most Dodger fans of 2005 feel the same way.

The Least Popular Dodger list has a very strong recency bias.

on the most hated list?

179-
When Baez destroys my childhood, he passes Niedenfur. Oh, and you're forgetting Don Stanhouse.

179. darryl strawberry? carlos perez? thats a pretty short-sited list

186 You and the three Hillbillies left at Dodger Stadium. ;)

178

Well considering he were's an outfielders glove, it makes perfect sense

181. I suppose. Although Bernie does have that "true Yankee" vibe to him. I'm just wondering who's the worst CF'er right now in the major leagues. Its hard to mention Bernie bc he doesnt play it much anymore.

I trully hate the San Dieago Padres!!

193 In terms of defense, Griffey JR comes to mind.

Gadzooks...Somebody get Lofton a map...Nice route Magellan.

Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes the bar eats you.

175- I'd rather have Lofton as a bench player, but neither as a CF. I'd much rather have Repko or Kemp in CF. Lofton not only has terrible instincts, but he also has a horrible arm. Lofton is a good fielding DH.

Well, Special K just did it again....

Lofton is ridiculous. He was running to his left until he realized it was to deep center and then just waited for it to come off the base of the wall. He better hope he keeps hitting .320 for a long time.

Is Griffey Jr really bad now? I havent caught many Reds game to know for sure. Griffy still has an arm though right?

Repko has a better arm than Lofton (I have a better arm than Lofton). Not sure he's a great improvement on those routes to the ball.

198 At least Repko athletic ability makes up for his other defensive short comings.

200 I do not watch a lot of Red's games, but his numbers are horrible this year, worse than Lofton's. He still makes a spectacular play here in there which ends up on BBT and allows Harold Reynolds talk him up.

That set's up the DP

201- Repko takes bad routes to balls, but he usually gets to them. He's an above average defender with a very good arm.

Anyone want to jump back on the Carl Crawford bandwagon (if Kemp bulks up too much and is unable to play CF adequately)?

Who gets the early mop-up duties today?

so was that an unearned run?

What' errors do to a game

We need to trade the Padres for the Mariners.

205 I thought that the defensive metrics said that Repko was about average for an outfielder.

(i'm probably wrong)

205 Carl Crawford as a CF, no way, he is average at best. Maybe we can keep Kemp of the Hgh.

207

Double
Wild Pitch
Walk
Sac Fly

Looks pretty darned earned to me.

Let's hope the bat's wake up

the wheels are really coming off now, in terms of pitching. at least with the 2006 dodger bat being a potent one, the game isn't necessarily lost yet.

Are any runs off of Aaron Sele really earned?

Not often your 7th batter hits .366

210.
2005- 107 rate1 in CF(41 games)
2006- 93 rate1 in CF(13 games)

The Dodgers need to trade for a pitcher, so who do ya' bums want?

I do not want to here the D-Train noise, either.

we all know errors have alot to do with this game right?

210- last year, Repko had a rate2 of 108 and was 3 runs above average.

48 pitches through 2 innings.
26 Strike.
22 Balls.

B-E-A-U-TIFUL

213. scoring runs against Sele i can understand, flailing against Park i dont

Trade Tomko to the 51's for Billingsley.

for the attorneys out there...

If the Dodgers were to release Kenny Lofton later this year, would he be able to file a grievance via the Americans with Disabilities Act, given his lack of depth perception?

Vin Scully on Chan Ho Park:
We were going to say the Marching and Chowder Society, but we'll say the Kim Chi Society

LOL

We need Billingsley and another arm.

Out with Perez/Seo/Sele.

R.

218 how about bronson arroyo?

227 One Cuban is more than enough...

227 One Cuban is more than enough...

If Sele deserves a mulligan, its for this game. He did have to garner 6 outs in that 1st inning. Granted the Padres arent the best offense and they are playing at Petko, however I'd give Sele a couple more turns in the rotation.

If any pitcher needs replacing at the moments its Tomko IMO.

Heard rumors the Braves will deal Smoltz. Lets go for him.

Guzman, Orenduff, and Ethier

errors have alot to do with this game?? hallow!

The Dodgers win 55.6% of their games. I don't see why one of the 44.4% games should be so vexatious.

228-229 Isn't it ironic?

228 what's wrong with cubans not named castro or baez? also, tell what's wrong with a guy named after charles bronson?

231 How about no.

If, by some miracle, Chan Ho Park were to go no-no tonight, I know the headline...Unexplained Mass Suicide Rocks Southland.

Smoltz?

I am okay with letting Guzman go, no problem actually... But NOT for Smoltz, maybe someone younger and with more hair.

D-Backs add to their lead on a sac fly by the "old Brian McCann".

Oh yeah, I forgot he is a free agent soon. Alright, there is no one to aquire.

The only Cuban I want is Kendry Morales.

233 -- I think the double to Castilla was the Career Grabowski Principle we've been waiting for.

Chan Ho has the perfecto through 3ip.

*acquire

Ladies and Gents, I give you Kenny Lofton's arm.

235 Can we really consider him a Cuban? Baez, Contreras, Canseco, El Duque, and Palmeiro are Cubans.

Kids born in Key West may be of Cuban heritage but I can't really consider them "Cuban".

talk about no respect for Lofton's arm WOW

I believe the Dodger have the longest streak of not getting shut out in the majors. I doubt it will be broken tonight.

Anyone else have a bad feeling that Colletti might pick up Russ Ortiz?

-Former Giant
-Great makeup
-Great in the clubhouse (I'm not joking about this one, from what I've heard he's actually a good guy)
-Crafty veteran, grinder
-From LA, grew up a Dodgers fan

He's the right handed Ishii (haven't heard his name in a while).

Isn't JD Drew the best CF currently on the roster?

247 (my own post)

if Aybar catches that, the guy is out.

jeebus. if i see russ ortiz or greg maddux anywhere near chavez ravine, i'll promptly poop my pants in protest.

Drew can't play CF. I have no idea why, but he just can't. I think it has something to do with astrophysics, but, for some reason, he's not allowed to play CF.

249
If the Dodgers picked up Russ Ortiz, I would hope some of the lawyers here would help serve on my defense team.

I hear that you can get in serious trouble for trying to blow up a baseball stadium even if you do in the off hours.

This is so sloppy of a game I may have to go watch the Lucky Louie episode I recorded.

David Ross is on fire.
He hit his 10th tonight.

Bob, so you hate him even more than Frank Robinson?

The Dodgers could lose 17-0, and it would be better than Lucky Louie...Trust me, I watched it and had to shower afterword.

251 Your posts are very strange.

254

you make my day alot better Bob.

256
But the Reds lost.

Remember when the Reds were hot?

Remember when the DBacks were hot?

Remember when the Padres were hot?

Remember when the Rockies were hot?

Remember when the Astros were hot?

255 - Lucky Louie is even sloppier or a television show, dont waste your time.

254 i can think of no finer cause to spend my pro-bono hours on (albeit as a lawyer in training)....

Remember when Dyan Cannon was hot?

Loftons best game of the year!

249-Unfortunately, the same thing crossed my mind as I saw the move cross the screen on the ticker.

That's why he's our starting CF

Remember when Britney Spears was hot?

265 His best play of the game might be the little show he gave the umpire. He was begging for the safe call (though it wasn't that close).

Lofton is not going to win any (kemp) fans today. I think he's being somewhat unfairly roasted, but he really shouldn't be the everyday starter.

So will we soon have a ethier,drew,kemp outfield?

We should trade Nomar! Sit Kenny! DFA Saenz!
Any other guys ripping it up that we should dump?

chan ho looks good so far.

i can't wait for chad's first start. only because if he falters (understandably), this place very well could implode on itself.

Lofton should be the backup pinch-runner (for when Olmedo gets on after a pinch hit. Drew in Center, I remember him and Bradley having a beef last year over who was playing CF. I remember MoonStar, errr, Drew mention CF was easier on his body.

Kemp in LF and Ethier in RF.

I love how Charley Steiner thinks it's a rarity when Lofton grounds into a DP. He's only done it 8 times this year.

For those of you on this site who want to push Izturis of the roster once he gets back, I only site the Furcal performance in the first inning.

If you have Saenz and Lofton on the bench, you're a deep, solid team. If they're starting any significant period of time...Not so much.

It really comes down to hitting either Lofton/Ethier versus right handers. I can understand if Grits wants to play Lofton, but he really should be playing LF if he does.

272 baez and tomko

it looks like this isn't our night guys! geez did you see that?

Come on Lofton, catch a ball. That was horrible...Kidding, kidding.

The ball sure is finding Lofton tonite.

I'm not a big Ethier either, but he's a good defensive left fielder and could probably match Lofton's production.

New lineup (until Crawford is acquired)
Fookie SS
Aybar 3B
Nomar 1B
Drew RF
Kemp CF
Kant 2B
Ethier LF
Martin C

I didn't realize this, but listening to the Padres tv guys, I know now that the Padres are the greatest team that ever played. In the last inning, they got a double play off of one of the fastest men in the game! Also, Cameron is the fastest guy ever from 1st to 3rd.

Any of you guys study Win Probabilities?

According to WP.....James Lofton is the third biggest contributor to the team this year...

Put that in your pipes and smoke it.

We need a pitcher or two who can pitch to an ERA of 5.00 instead on 9.00 and we'd be fine. Shouldn't be that hard.

Immanuel Kant?

What would we be willing to give up for crawford? realistically speaking...

284 STOP asking for Crawford, you might get what you want! Do you see him as our CF?

R.

Apparently, with two walks and a sac fly, Mike Piazza has officially not had a plate appearance tonight.

You do not try to score off Kenny Lofton...Got that?

James Lofton?

Lofton caught a ball in CF, how cute.

293 Kenny that is....maybe I need to stop smoking my pipe.

Grrr.. even more than the giants, i hate losing (potentially) to the padres.

For those interested, the Dodgers Win Probabilities, through Sunday...

http://www.fangraphs.com/winss.aspx?team=Dodgers

288- not a typo :)
290- is that a bad thing? Crawford is an excellent defender and has really turned it on since mid May now that's he's recovered from his wrist injury. Crawford is not your typical speed guy. He's hit 8 HRs so far this year, and should eventually hit 25+ a year.

Does anybody wish we had Edwin Jackson now? We could call him up, pitch him for 3 games, get him beat around and then send him back down.

Haven't the Dodgers gotten slaughtered in San Diego the last few years?

297 wow, steep drop there in the bullpen.

286 - baez is close to dead last in that category but I'm supposed to believe he's mariano rivera

My Cousin bails out Sele with a weak groundball

LET'S SCORE SOME RUNS!!

298 - I could be wrong, but his regular position has not been CF and when he did play it last year, he was below average.

Also, the question would be, who do we send to Tampa Bay?

297 I wouldn't be surprised if Lofton's win probablity was great, but it's a luck based stat like RBIs.

I really only like using it for relief pitchers.

300- The Dodgers have been slaughtered in San Diego and Montreal (not anymore, thank Jeebus) for twenty years.

306
i'm not familiar with WPs. how is it based on luck?

301 Steep drop from our first two starters, to the rest....

299 yes I wish we had Edwin Jackson

306 - I agree, but it is fun to study....

Every Dodger is pissing me off right now.

Contrary to popular belief, Chan Ho Park actually had a couple of really good seasons with the Dodgers.

308 Much like RBIs, you need to happen to get your hit in a big situation. It's a good indication of how clutch a player is, but not any real indication of actual ability.

312 Do not feel bad Jody Reed and Delino DeShields still piss me off....

Even Aybar?

JD Drew strikes out for the 80th consecutive times.

316

We'll see after what he does this AB.

even martin?

Lets go finger blister (clap clap, clap clap clap)

Aybar? Who is an Aybar lover? I am telling you, he has been playing in a bizarro universe, the guy is not that good...NO matter what Vinny says.

312

I hear you!

If WP are luck based stats, then wouldnt Nomar be like the best player in the major leagues? I heard the other day he was like 14-17 from the 7th inning on. Something crazy like that.

321

I think your wrong IMO

321

dsfan, uncle miltie, and many more.

Weit for some pitches MATT!!!

I'll start believing Aybar isnt any good when he actually performs badly. For a young player ( only 23), to come up and OPS .880+ for his first 240ABs in the majors isnt something to laugh at especially for a middle infielder. He is playing better than his minor league numbers would suggest, but there are exceptions to the rule like that that come along every so often.

321- are you related to Bill Mueller by any chance?

Kemp walks!

There you go Team Aybar, your boy is now sub .300......The guy had over .350 BABIP during his first 175 at-bats, nobody keeps that kind of luck going!

Look at Crawford's career BABIP numbers, that is why I am a bit concerned....he has been VERY lucky...

That was very un-Francouer like right there for Matt.

Well, at least Russeldinho showed up tonight.

That definitely hit the ground

321- Your saying enough weird things to worry me but I'll bite on this one.. what are you talking about? Aybar hit .326 in limited time last year and hit .300 in his time this year. Every single commentator believes this guy is a very legit hitter. How do you see any reason to believe he can't?

our golden boy in the clutch!!!

Russ Martin breaks up the shut out.
Good job Russ.

334 Look at his minor league numbers and his BABIP numbers while in the big leagues... It has been a lucky run, a small statistical sample.

Do not get me wrong, I hope he pans out....I have him on my simulation team.

331
please, no francouer comparisons.. have you seen his line this year?

.249/.256/.450, 54Ks, 4BBs.

maybe being free-swinging isn't such a good idea for our youngster..

334 Do you think I am weird? Or am I bringing unpopular views to Dodger Thoughts? Geez, did I get a bad rep. on my first day?

was that a change up? wow

337- You are the first person I have ever heard doubt that he can hit at this level. So I take you doubt Kemp's ability to hit too, right? And Martin's ability as a catcher?

339

I don't think you're weird. You have ver reasonable justifications for your opinions.

330. You may be right but it doesnt really matter if Aybar hits .300 or not. Batting average will probably fluctuate. What Aybar has shown is good patience and he's been willing to take his walks. The power may develop too. But I dont really care what his batting average is as long as his OPS is around .830+. Anything over .800 for a 2nd basemen is pretty good.

Seo in

339- I have no idea if you're weird and you are certinaly entitled to contrary opinions. You've just said several things that make me scatch my head. You're certainly entitled.

341 That is a slippery slope my friend...DO not drag Kemp and Martin into this.

I think Martin will be an above average catcher offensively, but not a star. Really, I see him being a Mike S. type.

As for Kemp, lets see if he has been playing a hot hand, but his numbers in the minors have been strong. His EQA when adjusted to MLB levels for his MILB career are impressive, for a man his age.

I'm not totally sold on Aybar either. He could be very good, or he could be an average major leaguer. But he has had good success (granted, small sample size).

343 I am willing to bet his OPS will be NO where near .800 at the end of the season, or for the peak of his career. I am willing to speculate he will be a career utility man.

Crawford's BABIP might be higher than league average bc of his speed. He's making contact but beating out hits that others would make outs on. I wouldnt worry about Crawford's BABIP until he gets past 29 and begins losing a step. That being said, I doubt I'd want him anyways, but its not bc he's been a lucky player. Its more his lack of discipline and marginal power.

346- You're not saying Aybar can't hit, right? Just that he's not as good as he's been? I agree with that. But I still like him.

has anybody notice that Grittle has his hat off?? that's a first

349 Good Analysis.

dose he know about our bad fortune with the Padres?

348. I dont disagree with you. It all depends on if Aybar develops 15-20HR power, kinda like Marcus Giles. Aybar isnt very fast, and his BABIP is high, so I wont disagree with you that he has gotten lucky so far. Hopefully he develops power to make up for when his luck runs out.

351 Good Analysis.

Penny & Lowe and pray for snow. Dodgers are in great need of Chillingsley.
vr, Xei

350 I think Aybar will be a solid utility guy. I just have no illusions of him being a .800 OPS guy or .280ish EQA guy.

Let me say this, I love the Dodgers, with all my heart. Hell, I used to cry when they lost, as a kid. Hell, I even cried when Steve Finley hit the grand slam..I had my newborn daughter in my arms.

I am just very CAUTIOUS with rookies and prospects.

Geez..I have caused a stir within the Aybar Fan Club!!!

354 To develop Giles like power you need HgH.

Wow.
Kubel hit a walk off Grand Slam in the 12th after the Red Sox had taken a 2-1 lead.

what can we say to defend Seo?????

I hope Tony Gwynn is embarrassed to be sitting in a booth with that guy (and I don't mean Lasorda).

If people don't want Crawford, that's understandable, but let's not pretend that he's not a very good player. At twenty four, with what he's done and where his career can go, we'd be sitting here coming up with nicknames for him if he were a Dodger.

359. It still not tested for ;)
Can Bob make a Mike Cameron cycle alert? Isnt that a HR, Triple, and Double so far?

KUBEL! Yes another member of my sim. team.

Billz is in (Perez & Seo???)

357 I understand your point, but what you don't understand is that Aybar and Kemp are going to be the two greatest players of all time.

363 A good player yes, but do we need another OF'er. I say we need a legit starting pitcher.

Whoever mentioned Bronson Arroyo, good call..I doubt the Reds would trade him. They probbaly need pitching.

Is batter BABIP a useful stat? Won't all .300 hitters without much power hit +.300 BABIP?

367 I hope so!

You are the first person I have ever heard doubt that he can hit at this level.

Yesterday I was told there was only one known Aybar fan in the universe.

I don't wanna be a jerk but alot of you play FANTASY BALL don't you?

372 Wow! What a jerky thing to say.

In theory most of them would probably have speed, which Aybar doesnt have.

Not many slow guys, that dont have much power, manage to hit .300. I can think of Tony Gwynn. I cant think of anyone else.

357- I think that caution over the Rookies is wise and even rare around here. That said, Aybar can hit. Like Saenz can hit. Doesn't mean he'll be an All-Star or go even remain a Dodger. But I don't care what stats you show me, he can hit and is not playing over his head. Of that I feel very confident.

369 I like to look at BABIP for "hot" hitters, or guys doing things outside of their norm during a season.

I also like to look at it in regards to pitching. For example, I believe batters had a very low BABIP vs. Tomko
in the early season....pointing to some luck.

There is only one Aybar, and Muhammad is his prophet.

368-Too many teams "think" they're in it to get good starting pitching right now. Have to wait until July for a good two or three starter.

372 -- You mean the game that overvalues stolen bases, wins, saves, and ERA?

please don't take this the wrong way, I just don't see the game the way you do

375 We then just disagree, but I hope you are right, and I am wrong, and if you are right, I hope he stays with the Dodgers..

HEY, I do NOT play Fantasy Ball, I play Sim. ball..

376- I understand pitcher BABIP is useful, but I'm not sure it translates. I've seen batter BABIP used before, but not enough to know if it's good for anything.

377

haha.

380 Who are you talking to?

KidCuba/Blubleeder....FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! Stick with the left hook to the face Cuba, I hear he's a bleeder. Plus, KidCuba is such a boxing name.

Just out of curiosity, are any of the people calling Aybar lucky buying into the case I made for Odalis being due for better luck, based on his off-the-charts .395 BABIP allowed.

I'm not commenting one way or another on Aybar, just wondering if people were using BABIP both ways.

385 LOL! I am boxing writer.....

386 I was thinking Odalis was unlucky, due to BABIP, but then I read about his latest jerk move at deadspin and now think it is bad karma.

I'm using BABIP in both respects.
Aybar due for worse luck.
OP due for better luck.

386- I am buying into Odalis being due for better luck...
As soon as he retires.

My neighbor dated Odalis, she has some very good Odalis/Yhency stories...

BABIP doesnt apply to pitchers who do not throw anything but 85mph beachballs.

389- Great. You take Perez and I'll take Aybar.

Odalis did get better luck...Hometown Buffet just lowered their prices.

386- I'm mulling over buying into the Aybar is lucky because of his BABIP, but I'm fully on board your Odalis is unlucky because of his. He isn't that good, even luck-neutral, but I do think you're right.

391

was your neighbor the hooker that Oh, Dallas went to in the Dominican when his mother was ill?

Odalis is sure unlucky for a guy with a 4-2 record.

So much for what I know....I thought Seo would be a fine addition to the pitching staff...

384

not you that's for sure, I'm just glad my baseball innosence is intact.

396 Nah, she works for FoxSports... I guess Fox Sports had a call-girl service for Dodger players last year.

What do you know? Grittle has his hat back on!

Unless I'm missing something, 396 crosses the line for this site.

402 I think I have stirred things up here. I did not know Aybar was soooo deeply beloved on this forum.

402 was a joke. I guess it wasn't funny. I'll behave and not say that anymore.

384

or are you gonna come up with "#" now?? to back you up???

Seo is injured. Billingsley should be called up now.

Geez, this is fun,I hope I can join you 'gents more often.

403- Had nothing to do with Aybar.

405 I have no idea what you're talking about. I wish I did.

Billngsley, I hope the young man is ready. I want to see the kid, trust me, I know he has great stuff, but man, he needs more seasoning.

If he comes up, do you think the Dodgers will give him a spot in the rotation for the entire year?

If not, I think it is a waste.

Laroche homers again.

Well, I just got back from a writing workshop and... well, this isn't good is it? So what happens to the Dodgers exactly when they face the Padres fairly weak lineup and Chan Ho Park? It seems like they become this different, incompetent team.

Also, is that true - Seo was injured?

and it doesnt look like a cheapee one too. on gameday, its about 3 cm behind the left field fence!

If you kids don't behave I'm going to turn this blog around right now!

Let's score some runs Dodgers!

412 I think Grittle just failed to warm somebody up, so he had Seo go out to warm up and pretend to get hurt.

Was LaRoche's homerun in Vegas?

As much as I have praised Aybar here tonight, I do think he is the best canidate among the rookis to be traded. We have Laroche in the long run at 3rd and Kent is likely to be at 2nd for a while. Aybar should have some real value to somebody. Maybe packaged with Izturis we can get some pitching.

in 3ABs tonight, laroche has seen 22 pitches.

I'm gonna go watch my Simpsons Season 3 DVD... "Lisa it's your birthday, dah dah dah dah dah..."

417

yes. so it should de-value it by .5854874 of a run.

Seo did, I mean, so did Sele pitch that poorly or was he mostly Furcal'd in the early going?

414

agreed

OK, so this game is boring and pointless -- new game. Let's create the Jorge Julio Ex-Closer Pool. Everybody pick the day when Jorge Julio will lose the closer's spot to another random ex-middle reliever (my vote -- last year's "Next Dominant Closer Flavor Of The Month" Brandon Lyon). The winner gets a Danys Baez autographed bus ticket to Vegas.

418We agree on that Greg. Package Aybar (a la A. Perez with Bradley)and get some value. I am not sure what kind of pitcher we can get and I would try to avoid shipping of Izturis.

422 - A little of each. He was hit pretty hard.

Anybody want to sell me on hitter BABIP? Aybar doesn't hit many HRs, and he doesn't strike out that much. In order to hit .300, he'd pretty much have to have a fairly high BABIP. My understanding of pitcher BABIP as an indication of luck is that, because there's such a thing as a league average BABIP, it should more or less even out over time, for each pitcher. When it's high, that represents either stiffer competition than usual, or worse luck. But with individual hitters, the good ones (who don't hit enough HRs to skew their numbers back down) will always have higher BABIPs and the bad ones will have worse.

The line drive/fly ball/ground ball break downs are a better indication of luck based on skill set, aren't they? I don't know where to find those.

Goodness. You guys were right. Lucky Louie was really bad. I'm going to give it one more chance.

425- Then what the heck are you going to do with him? He's not moving to the outfield and he's too good to be on the bench.

427 You can find most those numbers at fangraphs.com or thehardballtimes.com

No no no. Bad rookie.

Kemps mid section still turns way to quick for an off speach pitch

429 Let him ride the pine this year, who knows if Jeff Kent's body holds up. After all, Kent is just coming off of a stint on the DL and have somewhat of a subpar year. I know Izzy does not want to play 2B, but maybe Manny Mota can persuade him (Why the hell do they always mention Mota talking to the Latino players...)...

I would try to package Guzman and Aybar together. Some team might still buy into the fool's gold that is Guzman.

Dear Bison,

You're going to see a steady diet of curveballs for the rest of the year. Please lay off. Sit fastball, and pray. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Dodger Fans

If the Padres destroy Odalis that may force a Billingsley callup.

Whos a good rookie? Yes you are! You're a good good rookie.

[please excuse all typos and grammatical errors...I am a horrible typist.]

OK, so I take it back, Aybar is back above .300, what the hell do I know????

437

to be fair, that was a lucky hit :)

I like Martin, a lot....a lot....a lot... Better question, which has been debated already on this site, what the heck do they do with Dioner.

Also, does anyone else feel Dinoer needs to fix that snaggle tooth?

431

you mean no no no bad Cruz Jr. :o)

Remember when Jose Cruz Jr. was hot?

439- Well unless he can lean to pitch, you put him in that package you're wrapping up.

Colletti on the pitchers available on the trade market:

"In general, there's nobody available that intrigues me enough," said Colletti. "That's across the board."

Furcal bothers me, he reminds me of a Puerto Rican kid that used to beat me up in the 6th grade.

Navarro, Guzman, and Aybar....some GM would bite for that package.

Little grounder to first...BEHIND THE BAG AND IT GETS BY GONZALEZ! IN COMES AYBAR AND THE DODGERS WIN!...Sorry, Vinny flashback there.

Somewhere right now, 45 little children are crying.

Well, at least that doesn't affect Odalis's BABIP.

How is Odalis this bad?

-ducks-

Billingsley must be coming up. Suddenly, this game gets more interesting.

Perez has to go!! wow!!

Billz please!!

DFA, DFA, DFA!!

Oh, Uncle Miltie, whither Odalis Perez?

Maybe some good can come of this game after all.

(That was for OP, Seo, and Sele)

C'mon Roberts, make it back to back.

Man, they should have tried to trade him to the Omar's Latin American Stars, errr, the New York Mets.

Maybe Mr. Timmerman can double up on Perez effigies while he's down in the effigy district.

They're hitting that excellent changeup. I wonder how they know it's coming.

well atleat NOT LET CAMERON HIT FOR THE CYCLE!!

Billingly and who? We need two.

Ned get on the phone to Omar and offer Aybar/Guzman/Navarro/Perez for Wright and Glavine.

Just tell him you are taking the last anglos off of his hands.

Cameron has to somehow avoid hitting a home run off Odalis

Please Ned just release Odalis!

Yeah, keep em coming.

That's one way to deny him the cycle.

Hi, I'm Odalis Perez, and having Dodger fans hate me is not enough...I must walk Cameron, and hit Vlad in the head...Then my Southland hatred will be complete.

Seriously, maybe the Mets would take Odalis off of our hands. I would take Brian Bannister or that Cuban kid they have pitching lately.

I will say that when Nomo was going through his struggles in 2004, you really felt for him. With Erickson and Perez, I feel nothing.

Too bad Lance Carter isn't still up, this game could hit 20 runs.

If you think Los Mets would trade Soler for Perez, you are, ahem, well, you can finish the sentence with myriad mean things.

no one is going to take Odalis and his contract.

Maybe Odalis is coming off the 'roids.

443- I guess that means no Russ Ortiz, thank god.

Jon, I remember nate mentioning Odalis went to the Dominican to visit some of the ladies of the night. I thought it was pretty funny, maybe he should have used a different term. Like, "he went to the Dominican for a little tune up" or "to fix his mechanics".

Now everybody hates Odalis.

If the D-Backs can DFA Ortiz and eat that huge contract he has, Ned and Frank should be able to cowboy up and give the Goo Tub his walking papers.

So if Odalis is in there now, he can't make his next start... heeeyyy. Either Mousey (Gurnick) got it wrong or Grittle lied to him!

471

Jon has become comfortably numb.

Should I start selling effigies on the Griddle or should I just use eBay?

Yeah.

Um.

Perez.

Impressive tonight, eh?

MM-hmm.

Yup.

You guys understimate Omar.......

You give him Odalis and one of our young guys for Soler and a TBA player, Omar might bite.

471

Nomo was a warrior. Odalis is a fat tub of goo who denies children of going to Dodger games.

LaRoche's OPS is 2.054 right now.

Please Ned just release Odalis!
Only if he takes Tomko and Seo with him.

I feel something. Not hatred. Just depression.

Not everybody Miltie. You still think he's the bees knees, right? Or at least a serviceable starter (see, Nate could have gone with the "serviceable" joke).

LaRoche's OPS is 2.054 right now.

small sample size :)

481- He's been offered to the Mets. They did not bite, nip or even respond. That was before he started embarrasing himself nightly.

One inning tonight doesn't preclude Odalis from making his next start, but I do think it means he won't.

bees knees

hahahaha. bees knees. hahahaha.

479

Maybe we've all become "numb" to OP

Broxton used to be a starter, but I am sure that is out of the picture. Baez is grooming him on how to blow saves..

I was just watching my TiVo of the Brazil Croatia game and couldn't help childishly tittering that the Brazilians have a player named "Caca."

Then I watched Odalis Perez pitch that inning and thought we have a player ostensibly named Caca.

488 Wait....El Duque will implode, eventually... Maybe if Odalis can throw a few quality innings here and there...

479-Bob, I say a two-for-one Perez/Colletti "Fire" sale. We will not be undersold, no good offer rejected. Bad Credit? No Credit? No problem, at Bob Timmerman's Effigies 'R' Us.

Look out below - Cararra pitched 3 1/3 hitless innings tonight with five strikeouts.

They could call him up just as he's wearing out his arm for the 20th time.

Except, he's Kaka and the accent is on the second syllable.

489- Jon, Odalis needs to go to Vegas. Not the team but to the casinos. Apparently he is due for an amazing run of luck.

Uh oh, Izturis made an error tonight in that game, though. It's contagious!

First we'll use Penny
then we'll use Lowe
Then an off day
followed by snow
Back will come Penny
followed by Lowe
And followed
we hope
by two days of snow.

(Props to whoever came up with that first.)

497 Yes, I did say I was being childish. I just wanted it to be caca. That's the level my mind is at tonight. watching Old Dallas didn't help.

Sorry - just noticed the current line score in L.V:

Colorado Springs 3 1 0
Las Vegas 4 11 1

My debate now is to buy a replica Team Croatia jersey which is a red and white checkerboard pattern or a Team Togo jersey, which is yellow.

Seriously......

I throw Odalis out there 2 more games, as a starter. If he can turn it around, even a little, MAYBE, we can trade him. If not, you have to decide what to do with him.

The need for pitching can cause GM's to make foolish moves. I would take ANYONE for Perez, as long as we can rid the team of some of that salary. Is he signed for 2 more years and did DePodesta sign that extension?

Miguel Ojeda's triple in the seventh broke up the 51s' no-hitter.

I apologize to Hideo Nomo by the way. I loved Nomo, and his mistreatment was one of the factors that made Jim Tracy so outrageous. I almost want them to throw Goo Tub out there every five days just to suffer.

Wow,

we couldn't to nothing today

tomorrow's a nother day

504- Seriously, you are in a 4 game time warp. He is so toast it's silly. They've been shopping him for a month and Nobody wants him. Period. The game against the Mets was a "last chance" and he was a disaster. He has had about 4 "last chances". Nobody is taking him.

I say we collect money to buy Odalis a motorcycle, so he can go riding with Jeff Kent and Big Ben. Sorry, had to be said. Doesn't make it classy, but had to be said.

505 Who was throwing for the 51s?

drew has warning track power. o-ver-rate-ed

509 I guess I am hanging on to the notion that Odalis was atleast, a slightly above average pitcher at one time.

Do you think this was a result of his injury, because he sure fell apart really quick.

Odalis is untradeable. Even if somebody wanted him, no team will give anything up in a trade because they know that Ned's next move is to DFA him.

Hull 2 2/3, 0 H, 4 BB
Carrara 3 1/3, 0 H, 1 BB
Wunsch 2/3, 1 H, 1 BB, 1 HBP
Osoria 1/3, 0 H

Now in the bottom of the seventh.

513- So was Dou Rau but nobdoy will take him right now either. I don't know why he is bad now. I just know that he is.

Thanks for the update Jon...

For better or worse, I guess Bills is on his way.

So, predictions?

I say he goes 4 and 7, with a 4.76 ERA, about 4 walks per 9 and 7 strikeouts per 9.

516 -- Where's Burt Hooton!

Apart from his on-field struggles, what did Odialusawrongnumber say or do last couple days that didn't go over well?

509- I demand that you retract that. I do not want Odalis. Never have, never will. And I will not take him.

To say such things on a public forum is outrageous. How do you sleep at nights?

8-0 1.95era 1.2w/9 10.5k/9

My IP has been out all night but unfort. the game has been on DTV. We have had nothing tonight even with Garc, Kent and Drew.
As much as Perez has been dissed, Seo may have done worse, and a bad night for Sele.
I can't remember a game that has seemed this long and the Pads have been up the whole time. It gets long when you have to stay up till 10p to start.(east coast).
This may get a lot out of the system, and I don't think this funk will last long.
It's not worth dumping the farm for a few starting pitchers; baseball is too diluted for any team to have more than 2 or three good ones. But I guess something must be done.

LaRoche walked, continuing the OPS assault.

519 - Visit Deadspin.com, that was the last straw for me. He seems like a complete jerk. His comments in the press during past years have been bad, and the issue prior to the WBC bothered me, but this report on Deadspin, puts him in the "classless" file.

R.

520- Sorry. My bad. Not even Nobody wants him.

525 What is this, a Family Circus cartoon? ;-)

Aybar robbed of another walk by the umpires

521 Does Aybar win the triple crown, as well?

525-It's official. Odalis Perez must be sent to an alternate dimension.

in 4 PAs tonight, Laroche saw 27 pitches. thats pretty good eh.

Does Aybar win the triple crown, as well?

and breaks the season record for walks.

Greg S - So, if your in charge of Los Dodgers, what do you do? I am interested to read your ideas?

Why is it when a team has a really low winning percentage, like KC, when they lose their winning percentage doesn't drop by as many points as a team with a better record, such as the Dodgers will.

The Royals dropped from .258 to .254 and the Dodgers are going from .556 to .547.

And they've played the same number of games.

516. How do you throw a knuckle curve, anyhow?

532- First, I would sign Greg S to a 1 week $20 million contract. No, no, no... FIRST I would drop Odalis Perez, THEN I would sign me.

Was this the place where someone said Tony Abreu is a good defensive 2B?

R.

Coco Crisp went 0-for-6 against the Twins on Tuesday, leaving seven men on in the process.
The worst was when he grounded into an inning-ending double play with two on in a tie game in the eighth. Crisp doesn't get on base like a leadoff hitter, doesn't take pitches like a leadoff hitter and doesn't steal bases like a leadoff hitter. That he's getting more at-bats than anyone else in Boston's lineup is just bad baseball.
May we interest you guys in proven leadoff hitter Kenny Lofton?

335

What color is the Kenny Lofton statue outside Chavez Eavine going to be? Black or bronze?

Was this the place where someone said Tony Abreu is a good defensive 2B?

the scouting reports say he is.

I thought Old Maid would be more interested in getting back to the clubhouse for the post game spread than getting on base.

This has been tooo much fun guys! I need to go to bed, thank you for allowing me to participate.

Maybe I will return with more weird statements soon!

537. Yes, because we have a lot to brag about our 39 mil lead off man.

That Park is such a Ho!

har har har har.

well, that happened.

500. Thanks. I like your poem version.
vr, Xei

542- Fookie takes pitches and draws walks, Crisp does neither. Fookie did not cost us a top prospect either.

Too bad Tomko didn't pitch in relief tonight.
Penny, Lowe, Tomko, Sele, OPerez... (Sing)Three of these things don't belong with the others...(/Sing).
vr, Xei

Huh, what? Is windbag Kevin Kennedy going to tell us something other than who is personal friends with? He says he talked to Flanders and there are going to be some changes involving Perez and Seo?
Stay tuned! Or don't. It is just Kennedy after all.

I think Billingsley is going to pitch on thursday.

I hope Lance Carter blows the save at Vegas so Laroche can get another PA.

Billingsley has just been called up, Guzman has been sent down. Billinglsey will pitch Thursday.

Tomko will pitch against Oakland Friday.

Odalis is going to be released and Seo will be sent to the minors, so he can dominate Vegas with his felow AAAA buddy, Lance Carter.

Ok, so I made up the last part.

Make that 518. Threw myself a knuckle curve.

516. In all time Dodger pitching history, Rau is No. 29, 80-58, 3.30 ERA. No. 28? None other than Chan Ho Park, 80-54, 3.80 ERA. From 74-78 Rau turned in 13,15,16,14, and 15 wins. Find an additional pitcher now who can come close to that and LA plays well into several Octobers, probably

541 - Thanks for coming, Kid.

Okay, that sucked.

Anyway, I'm in the same boat as Andrew Shimmin, what with being an "Aybar backer" (TM).

I'm completely oblivious to the merits of using BABIP as a measure of hitters. Doesn't it seem obvious that yes, better hitters will have a better BABIP than others?

If someone would explain it to me, I'd like to hear.

Also, it's not like Aybar lacks value, even if he is a little lucky right now. He draws a ton of walks, and if he didn't get terrible calls from the umpires so frequently, he'd probably have even more walks.

Osoria bats for himself in the bottom of the eighth of a 4-3 game. He'll be going for a 2 1/3-inning one-run save.

551. Source?
vr, Xei

Kennedy just showed a clip of Chad striking out Vlad. Now I am going to go back and rewatch that game.

You guys missed a great NBA Finals game.

Thoughts-
This game might have been completely different without Lofton and Furcal's errors.
I always liked the looks of Chan Ho's stuff and couldn't figure out why he couldn't learn to pitch better.
I'm more and more disenchanted with long gauranteed contracts, but ownership was stupid enough to come to this point. (I don't really see it as the players fault, but a result of the owners greed and ego.
While out of line or just big contracts occasionally help a team: ie. Bonds made the Giants a minor contender for many years, they have never helped the Dodgers ( Kevin Brown, Driefart, and perhaps Furcal).

557- Kevin Kennedy said he spoke to Flanders today and he all but confirmed that Bills would be pitching on Thursday. Shockingly, he didn't mention being a personal friend of his ot take credit for teaching him to pitch.

558. Didn't the NBA season end a few weeks ago? vr, Xei

I enjoyed Nobody's insights tonight.

Chan Ho actually did have a couple good seasons with the Dodgers. I think his contract with the Rangers distort the Dodger memories. He WAS at one time good.

560- Sorry, that was for 556.

558- I watched the last 5 minutes. Wade was amazing. Kobe must be really jealous.

There was a time I feared Kevin Kennedy might manage the Dodgers, and thank god I missed something about the NBA.

561. I lost interest for awhile too but after this game I'm going to watch the rest of the series. Miami came from 13 behind with 6min left to win.

554 - It's not the BABIP in a vacuum. The stat that pesters me is his line drive percentage. It's been consistently low since he arrived, and it's the worst on the team this year.

Couple that with a high BABIP, and I fear that he's had lots of "groundballs with eyes".

Furcal now leads the Majors with 15 errors. He could wind up with over 40 if he keeps this up. I didn't realize he was this bad. I was willing to give him a pass early in the season because he wasn't completely healthy but I thought he was healthy now so what's his excuse? I guess Izturis might come back to play SS after all.

I was hoping for the Billz against the A's.

FSN says it's official $5 Bills will pitch thursday. That should keep us in the playoff hunt. vr, Xei

568-

But how is Line drive percentage calculated? Just by eye, (admittedly worthless), he seems to hit quite a few line drives.

565. If Wade was just 2 inches taller, I think he'd be a Jordan clone. Kobe isnt the athlete Jordan was. Lebron is like a more athletic Magic. But Wade is MJ minus 2 inches.

I cant believe so many laker fans hate Shaq. I'm a Laker fan, but I'd still like to see Shaq win a ring. The only Ex-Laker I dont like is Gary Payton, and of course he hits the GW tonite. And the only reason I dont like GP is that he wasnt very good on the Lakers. When he was with the Sonics, I thought he was ok.

573. I'm a "Shaq hater". Not a big one, but a hater nonetheless. Atleast that's what my co-worker calls me. I mean I don't hate him enough that I would start a website called FireShaq.Com, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend and Mark Cuban is a good buddy for a few more days. vr, Xei

563 You are correct. For the most part, Chan Ho was a slightly above average pitcher during his time in LA. He only had one bad year in '99 with an ERA+ of 85. Every other year, his ERA+ was over 100.

Not than an ERA+ over 100 makes him a great pitcher, but the late 90's verson of Chan Ho would be welcome on this team.

572 - Not sure on that. Hardball Times features it, but I'm not sure where they get the data.

FWIW, Penny is #3 in the MLB in DIPS (behind Webb and J.Santana). Lowe is #30 and Tomko #75. Odalis is off the charts, probably ranked just below Bob Timmermann.
vr, Xei

573- I don't think so. Kobe is a great player because of the elevation he gets when he shoots. He can jump over a 7 footer. You hardly ever see him get a jumpshot blocked. Wade really can't shoot outside of 12-15 feet with any consistency. To become a truly great player, Wade is going to have to become a much better defender and extend the range on his jump shot to at least 20 feet. He is one of the quickest players in the NBA (hence the nickname "flash"). That quickness won't be there when he's 30 years old. He's a fun player to watch, but I'll take Lebron over him any day. Lebron is some kind of freak science experiment gone wrong. Great quickness, strength, athleticism. He is a monster. If Lebron played baseball, he'd be like Raul Mondesi (not production wise). Mondesi is one of the greatest athletes I have ever seen in any sport.

578. greater than Bo Jackson?
vr, Xei

I don't want the Heat to win because I'm a Riley hater. He is one of the most overrated coaches in NBA history (not as overrated as Phil Jackson though). He is a complete jerk and never takes any of the blame (sound familiar?) Riley said yesterday that the Heat (were) down 0-2 in the series because the Heat players weren't playing hard enough.

581. Sounds more like a coach trying to light a fire under his players. vr, Xei

The Billingsley news allows us to start a new thread.

Here is an interesting HT article about out of whack LD% and BABIP being a predictor on un/lucky streaks for both pitchers and hitters.

http://tinyurl.com/ez5az

580 You know, when you've won as much as Jackson and Riley have (especially Jackson), you can't really call them overrated.

I wonder if Riley really believes that statement. I think it might be cliche speak.

I dont think Riles is overrated. He's been 3 places and won at all of them. He helped retore the Knicks. He's rebuilt the Heat. When he was in LA of course he had great talent around him. I'd still take Riley/West back in a heartbeat to the Lakers.

I'll agree with you on Phil tho. I cant stand Phil.