Carry over from the other thread, why lead off Lofton, drop Furcal to #8 and bat Aybar 2nd? We aren't still worried about hurting feelings under this new regime are we?
vr, Xei

very nice post, Jon. It's going to be really interesting to see what the Dodgers not only do with Perez, but the pitching as a whole. Does Perez stay or go? Does he regain any form? How good will Bills be? What does Saito have left in him? What's up with Gagne? Who will we trade for?

Even with all the question marks one thing is for sure: this is going to be a heck of a ride.

I seem to recall Mondesi also pouting and getting a bad rep when he was in the minors. The cure for that is to make them not care about your rep by smashing the ball. Hopefully JtD will pull it together.

I guess a question, then, re OP, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything: was his mother ill last year, too?

I have no problem with a player pouting after a demotion, I just don't like to hear about them turning the obstacle in the road into a negative (ie - not hustling). If anything it should build a hunger to prove those in management wrong by performing at a high level. JTD really has very little to complain about at this point, he hasn't overly impressed at AAA and Kemp outplayed him at the major league level in his short stint. Joel's time will come. Hopefully, in a Dodger uniform. vr, Xei

Compare Guzman's reaction to that of James Loney. IIRC, Loney said something along the lines of, "Now that I know what it takes to succeed up here, you can be sure I'll be working that much harder in Vegas." And, note what Loney has done since returning to Triple-A. How Guzman plays after his demotion, it'll be quite telling.

I think Joel is a young 21, has been playing pro ball since 16-17, no college. Now I know he grew up in better surroundings than most in the DR but he still needs to go down to Vegas and do what Aybar and Loney did this year.

Why is Guzman called JTD? I missed this one.

Perhaps someone should buy a calendar for OP and remind him that this is an even numbered year! vr, Xei

Plus consider that Guzman had done very little in May down in Vegas to justify a promotion anyway. He was called up in an emergency, and if he hit 2-3 HR up here he still would've been sent down.

8. Because Joel The Battleship and Joel the Submarine got voted down. :)
vr, Xei

Great read as always Jon

Someone who knows French better than me will correct me when this is wrong, but... I think you have to take that e off noire. Unless he's Odalisa.

(8) And I missed why Ramon Martinez is "Lucille".

I missed why Martin is Russelldinho.

Its FAQ day.

By the way, in case no one has noticed, Kevin Youkilis really gets on base a lot.

Ramon Martinez is the second one. Like Liza Minelli was Lucille II on Arrested Development.

14

I missed both of them as well? I always have a puzzled face when I read JTD & Luccile

9 I call him Joel but some like Joel the Destroyer (JtD)

19

it all makes sense now, thanks

he hasn't overly impressed at AAA
Really, JtD hasn't overly impressed anywhere. Yes, he's very young for his league(s), but shouldn't he have posted eye-popping numbers somewhere?
Because I'm at work and the Interweb is glacial here, I can't look Guzman up on Baseball Cube. But I recently did so, and I instruct everyone to compare his HR/AB rates to those of Kemp and LaRoche.

21 I'm not in any way expert on prospects, but my impression was that the fascination with JtD is (a) a tools thing and (b) the fact that he was putting up large numbers for a shortstop.

13 - I thought bete (I realize I'm missing the circumflex) was always feminine. I could be wrong.

22

he was 19/20 yrs old in AA and more then held his own. Age vs level of competition is very important.

22 Yeah, I lost a lot of interest in Guzman once he shifted to the outfield. He still hasn't put up a good season in the minors without the qualification "for his age".

I guess I am wrong. I'll fix it.

22 - From what I gather and have seen, he's got one tool: parking-lot power.
And, now that he's not a shortstop, that removes a large chunk of his value.

23 26 ...a quick google makes me think that you are right -- that bete is feminine -- and that I don't know what I'm talking about.

4 - She was ill before, but I don't know the exact time period.

5, 6 - I agree.

dewitt homers in his first game back after taking a game or two off to refocus. That is great to see.

25

his 2004 season was pretty good regardless of age.

I might be mistaken, but Jon, did you once write something about how Guzman's value would drop with a position change?

I don't know french at all, but I know noir is an adjective, and unless "bete" is some kind of substantive, it has to be a noun and, therefore, would have a permanent grammatical gender.

I did this a few days ago, but here's a quick rundown of my reasoning why JtD may not be as valuable as the system's other prospects:
1. He's a man without a position. I can easily see him turning into a lumbering 1B/LF type.
2. He doesn't know the strike zone.
3. He doesn't have speed.
4. There are more reports on his attitude than you'd like to hear.

23 - ê does wonders for that, viz. bête noir.

33 - I might have, but it wasn't an original thought.

I would add, though, that this past October, it was far from a remote possibility that Oscar Robles would be the opening day shortstop in 2006, as a stopgap for Izturis' return. Had that happened, had the Dodgers not given up on Guzman as a shortstop, I think he'd be looked at much more positively today. He might even be the guy. And that's with or without the hindsight of knowing how many errors Furcal has made.

As a side note, has all the moving around the diamond affected him at the plate?

36 - Blogging with accents is a pain I'm not yet willing to endure.

36 I know that this is a Dodger site but did you catch Buddy Black on with Mason and Ireland today, he was very carefully dancing around the whole Jered Weaver issue and kept saying "we have not sent him down yet." He did say that Escobar going to bullpen was not in the plans.

Another great post Jon. As a native of Los Angeles who just returned (literally two days ago) after a long time away, as well as someone starting "a career", I find this analysis on the PR of blame to be really thought-provoking.

35 It wasn't my impression that he didn't know the strike zone. He swung at some bad pitches, but because I think he was fooled, in the way even good hitters get fooled. I think he's a big guy with a ton of potential for power. I've heard a lot about his "BP power", and I've heard this said about a lot of people. Is it a common scouting practice to look for potential in BP? Does power in BP tend to translate eventually into power in games, even if it isn't apparent right away?

Yo Nate, Dewitt is 1 for 2 with a homer and a walk today.

41- I used to watch Billy Ashley hit balls nine miles out at Harbor College when he was a big time prospect...Does that answer your question about BP?

41-Granted, he was just working out with Karros at a CC ballpark, but still. Practice bombs do not a prospect make.

42

i saw that. I hope it means he has gotten his stroke back and will go on a laroche like tear for the remainder of the year.

"Practice bombs do not a prospect make." - Yoda

43

its not like guzman hasnt hit homeruns in game time situations, in 2004 he hit 23 homeruns, in 2005 he hit 16.

35 et all- Can we be more specific than attitude problem? If not we face the Milton Bradley discussion all over again? For Guzman, as other ballplayers have shown, being disappointed or having a temper is not necessarily a bad thing for a baseball player. Being lazy or stupid is. There is a distinction.

Just to state the obvious and not come off as naive. Bradley was an extreme example of how being angry can be negative for a baseball player. And, without calling out names, Im sure there have been stupid but successful baseball players.

Yup, and Ashley hit 24, 26, and 37 HR's. I wasn't comparing Guzman to Ashley. 41 asked if BP translated to MLB success, or some corrolation thereof, and I simply brought the guy up. Sheesh.

Washington's in an 8-8 tie in the fifth inning, and no commentary from Sam DC? Maybe he's at the game ... or I guess he's being a dad.

today's starting lineup

Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF
Nomar, 1B
Drew, RF
Kent, 2B
Ethier, LF
Aybar, 3B
Martin, C
Penny, P

I really don't get why Kemp isn't playing

Lofton is being rewarded for his outstanding performance yesterday.

Can we go one day without complaining about Lofton? Seriously, its just kinda old. What's so wrong with playing a guy with a .375 OBP at the top of the lineup?

Just a joke Mr. Sanchez, just a joke.

52

same here I wanted to see how he'd counter the adjusment's the league (Padres) made on 'um

54 - Maybe because the Dodgers are benching a player with a .408 OBP and slugging .795

57 They're also benching another player with a .405 on base, but no one is complaining.

I like what Kemp's doing, but really, it's 44 at bats.

58 - I understand its only 44 at bats, but that number wont increase sitting on the bench.

48 - Guzman got benched for loafing, during a pout, not too long ago.

Although I'm glad Billingsley has arrived at the ballpark, I can't see any reason that he was activated today and that the Dodgers should play a man down.

58

don't forget he's only 21 years old, once he learns to hit the ball the other way look out.

61 - You're just never satisfied. (wink)

Im as big a kemp fan as your going to find, and have been for two years, and Im happy with his playing time. Lofton is playing well, and doesnt deserve constant scorn by dodger fans.

Why all the grumbling about JtD? He's had good numbers for his age, and the scouts love him. I didn't see his comments after his demotion as that big a deal, and we haven't heard a peep from him complaining about all the positions he's had to play.

WWSH

61 - Probably wanted him in the dugout so he could absorb some knowledge. Can he do that if he's not officially on the team yet?

Re: 64

Exactly. Lofton's been used very well by Grady so far, and the steals are of value. He has a high enough percentage where the SBs are worth it.

WWSH

67 - Are they worth the defensive liability?

61. maybe they'd rather him not have to travel the night before he starts?

64-I don't think anybody really feels this way about Lofton. One couldn't ask for more from his old self. We're just in love with the kids is all. God Bless Kenny Lofton.

68. I wouldnt call Lofton a liability, his rate1 is 95, below average but not a liability. More importantly, his numbers are second best on the team to Jose Cruz Jr.

69 - I'm not saying don't have him in the clubhouse tonight, just don't activate him.

61 - They obviously called him up so he could do the pre-game interview on KCAL!

Following 71, aside from this year, Kenny's had an above average Rate2 for EVERY season since 2002, including an 108 last year. So his arm stinks--so what?--that holds true for plenty of CFs.

Re: 64

In this crowd, I actually think Kenny's been tarred with the brush of being a veteran speed guy brought in by Coletti to light a "fire" under Drew. All that is nonsense, of course (although the speed is actually useful IMO), but it's obscured his real value as a player.

I do think Kemp in general should play every day, but I've yet to be persuaded Ethier is really ready to be an every-day big leaguer.

WWSH

Bills was just on the Dodger pre-game show.

38 - it also screws up your searches.

interesting that Guzman isnt in the starting lineup for Vegas tonight.

I don't fault JtD at all for not talking to the press after the demotion. I think not talking is always a legitimate choice. And, while JtD may have been sour, I'm not going to just take the word of the spurned reporter.

75. did he say anything interesting?

79-
I'm just glad to be here, hope I can help the ballclub. I'm just gonna take it one game at a time, and Good Lord willing, things will work out.

I'm not going to just take the word of the spurned reporter.

I'm not just gonna take it either: I'm gonna run with it.

77- hello Carl Crawford/Miguel Cabrera/Matt Williams/JT Snow?

77 Not sure how this reflects on Orenduff's condition but Spike Lundberg is going to pitch tomorrow for Las Vegas per the 51s pregame show.

82 - your craaaazy!

nah, he was kind of nervous (inderstandably) he was talking about his dads cancer & how it's made him a better person, Eric Karros asked him what kind of pitcher he was & he responded by saying he was a power pitcher (quiet confidence is good to see in a youngster)

Curse you, Prime Ticket! Curse you with a thousand kilocycles of Enron-priced energy! Why are you not showing this game to me?

83

it would be nice if his elbow would stop hurting. we could use him on the big league club.

Remember the last series in SD? We won the 1st game, won the 2nd game and had a 5 run lead in the 9th of the 3rd game. Then we got a Baez/Carter surprise and we have't beat them since. That inning really, really hurt. Hope I'm not thinking about it in September.

86

its on KCAL9.

72 First he gets to scout the hitters for tomorrow watching another rh power pitcher go against them, Second, he gets to hang with the team and the guys especially Russ Martin. Third, he was going to pitch tomorrow for Vegas, so to get all the moves working, he probably needed to come up today.

87 No comment on his elbow although Lundberg was pitching better than Orenduff and he fits a AAA profile (older pitcher, not a prospect).

Come on Furcal prove us wrong.

89 Er, until KCAL expands its signal to the outskirts of Honolulu (think Gates Pass v. downtown Tucson, Nate), that don't help much. But thanks. ;)

Yes, ladies and gentlemen: we still have the .668 OPS guy leading off.

I think Ken Gurnick is quickly attaining Bill Plaschke levels of incompetance and bias-ness.

For a guy that is only supposed to report the news, he really does give an opinion. Its often unwarranted, an often baseless. The Dodgers.com site (news, messageboard, player features) is really horrible.

There's more information and greater insight on personal weblogs than from the flagship site.

Anyone have any reasons for this?

94 Short of an injury, Grady will have Furcal lead off for the season, please send your comments to the Dodger.com site.

95 I agree and all I can say is that he works for MLB as far I know, Jon do you know different?

will that mean something during the game? (Cameron getting hit)

"*1. He's a man without a position. I can easily see him turning into a lumbering 1B/LF type.
2. He doesn't know the strike zone.
3. He doesn't have speed.
4. There are more reports on his attitude than you'd like to hear.*"

Why does #3 matter? Are the Dodgers a football team?

As for #4, thats impossible for anyone to speculate on unless you know Guzman personally. I'm not really sure why his attitude matters. All that matters is his production. Odalis Perez has been the same guy his entire career. Its only when his production fell off that people had a problem with his attitude.

Mentioning speed and attitude..You'd think we were at an NFL combine.

Not professional baseball.

Do the Padres always put the number of their starting pitcher on the mound?

Or am I missing something?

Raise your hand if you predicted that Dave Roberts would be out-OPSing Brian Giles at this point in the season.

95- Gurnick works for MLB. In fact, If you look on the Dodger website, he is listed under front office employees.
http://tinyurl.com/lvnnv
He is not an unbiased reporter and I think he would tell you so. He was when he was a beat reporter for the Daily News, not now.

I don't think Gurnick worked for the Daily News? He wrote for the Her-Ex?

I would assume Jon would know better.

Just another assist for Aybar.

102

unbiased?

so he's not biased then, please don't read wrong into my post

101 Raise your hand if you thought Roberts would become an acceptable corner outfielder the second he left L.A.

103- You may be right, it may have been the Herald. And then whatever that short lived Baseball weekly was. And then he switched sides and worked for Dennis Gilbert's Beverly Hills Sports Council. When that didn't work out, he went back to being a beat guy. Sort of.

I caught part of the Yankee game tonight on their network. They were showing the upper portion of Yankee Stadium, above the outfield. The announcer used the word "facade"...

PS: I'll be taking in tomorrow's game between the Yanks and Tribe. I'll try to post some photos of the various facades, friezes, friscias, etc.

Good at bat by Kent. He actually got screwed on the first pitch.

This umpire has been awful so far. I have a feeling that Aybar is going to get screwed out of a walk again.

WILLY!

Aybar flexes his power.

Wilber to the deepest part of the park!

That was a bomb by Wilber!

So was that a lucky hit?

105- He's NOT unbiased. He IS biased. He works for MLB and the Dodgers.

This ump....(see Martin's strike out)

I agree, that ball was absolutely crushed.

this ump sucks, he favors soft tossing righties... why couldnt seo start this game!

Dear Grittle:

Please move Aybar up in the lineup, preferably to the #1 or #2 spot.

Yours,
D4P

109

Whom do you trust more? Michael Kay or me?

On the one hand, you have Michael Kay, who used to be a reporter and has turned into the Yankees shill?

Or me, a model of objectivity, honesty, and font of knowledge about all things? Especially matters involving: former Arizona pitchers, the World Cup, and reasons for hating Frank Robinson.

If you had a young son to raise, who would you use as a model?

Ignore the fact that Michael Kay likely earns 10 times as much as I do.

115

was he born here? or is he just a Dodger fan?

Back in Vegas, Izzy walked and scored on a ground out, Loney singled in another run, Joel is there and available.

Andy LaRoche walked and no he is not playing for Atlanta.

Navarro, struck out, runners on 1st and 2nd, again not many comments on the note that his destination is set, he will be optioned to Vegas once he comes off the DL.

Nate, Sergio Garcia got sent from Vegas to Jacksonville.

Robles struck out too.

I'm B just a Dodger fan (born in Guadalajara, Mexico)

Give some credit to Kent for getting on base too. Ethier is showing why he probably shouldn't be a starting corner outfielder. He doesn't really work the count. Kemp should be playing every day, especially against some minor league pitcher.

119 I trust Bob, though I must put a disclaimer that I won a prize on The Griddle.

Ethier is showing why he probably shouldn't be a starting corner outfielder.

lol. yes one AB shows why he should be doing 4th outfielder duty.

Why does #3 matter? Are the Dodgers a football team?
Bill James determined players with speed age better than players without.
Also, speed is one of the scouts' proverbail "five tools." Do you completely dismiss speed when judging players?

As for #4, thats impossible for anyone to speculate on unless you know Guzman personally.
Which is why I wrote there are reports, as in, printed accounts I've read. Where on earth did you get the notion I was speculating?

Two old friends with homers in Phoenix. Finley with a solo shot. Green with a 2-run homer.

DBacks lead 3-1.

3.52 pitches per at bat is nothing special. Ethier looked like Kenny Lofton there, not that it mattered since it was a HR.

Grabowski principal here. A home run off Penny in Petco too.

He works for MLB and the Dodgers.

I've always wonderd about this:
Are they one and the same?

Penny walking and giving up home runs to mediocre hitters?

119
Ignore the fact that Michael Kay likely earns 10 times as much as I do.

The fact that he likely makes 10 times as much doesn't necessarily mean that he earns 10 times as much. Plus, I'm suspicious of wealth.

I'm throwing my hat in your ring, Bob...

129- Boy is that a question with a long answer. A baseball team is both a franchise of a bigger company (like your local McDonald's) and at the same time it's it's own company. It both shares revenue with the league and at the same time competes with it. Nothing else exactly like a sports team.

Does anyone here live in San Diego? Just wanted to see if they still worship Khalil Greene like a god, only call him by his first name, and consider him one of the elite players in baseball.

That was the first home run given up by Penny in 2 months (approx. 60 innings)

Well, the Nationals express has officially derailed, at just the wrong time for the Dodgers. Now lost three straight to Colo, including 14-8 tonight, with Livan on the moung tomorrow trying to stave off the embarassment of a four-game sweep.

What a thoughtful post tonight, Jon.

I believe Gurnick worked at the HerEx, and then the Long Beach Press-Telegram before this gig.

Gurnick works for MLB.com, which is owned by a larger concerned MLBAM (MLB Advanced Media). While MLB gets a cut of the profits, they are separate entities.

The MLB.com beat writers are supposedly free to write whatever they want, but they still have to send their articles to editors and that's where the differences are.

MLB.com has had its share of stories about players getting suspended for steroids and they've covered the Jason Grimsley story, although you can argue to what depth they do.

I think any biases in Gurnick's coverage are Gurnick's and not that of Dodger management.

And if I'm right about the P-T, then that would explain why someone else thought he was in the Daily news since they have the same owner and often share stories.

Which is why I wrote there are reports, as in, printed accounts I've read

I personally dont care about what any personal writer thinks of an athlete's character. One writer could write he was "stunned" about being demoted to Vegas (of course he provides no quotes). And another could write a story about Guzman's charity work in the DR. Again, both stories have nothing to do with the actual game of baseball. Its just the writer's opinion.

Speed has been considered a 'tool', but its useless without everythine else. I think speed is an accessory, not a necessity. And while Guzman may be "slow", its not like he's unathletic. He's 6'6 and been playing SS most of his career. He is athletic.

have I mentioned how much I dislike the Padres errrrr!!!!!!!!

137- Really Bob? You think that although he works for MLB.com that he has no bias? Who employs those editors?The Dodger website covers some bad news but I wouldn't trust them to be an unbiased source. And I certainly don't think that Mousey is a big Dodger fan.

Have only game day tonight. We didn't hold that lead long, eh.
However I have D-backs vs. Giants on DTV and it is rather pleasant listening to D-backs incredably obnoxious homers leading the Giants, although it is now 4-2.

Khalil Greene reminds me of the really bad Alex Gonzalez (the one from Toronto). He's probably not as talented either.

I think Gurnick has biases. But they're his own biases. I don't think he has a party line he has to follow.

There are other stories on the MLB.com websites that are more PR-oriented puff pieces. Those are different.

It seems premature to start worrying over how quickly JtD will decline due to age, doesn't it?

The really bad Alex Gonzalez (last seen in Philadelphia) retired.

Penny with 59 pitches through 2IP.

I'm out peepz hope the Dodgers woop these pesky Padres! [please note I had to leave about an hour ago]

A mere 59 pitches for Penny through 2 innings tonight.

50 I was, in fact, at the Kirov Ballet at the Kennedy Center with my lovely wife and no kids in sight. Immediate reactions:

1. Hard not to be impressed by the dedication of the guy in $80 Orchestra seats wearing his FIFA Germany 2006 T-Shirt.

2. Turned out to be a weird modern ballet (anyone ever hear of Choreographer William Forsythe?) We had no clue when we got the tickets - "Kirov" sounded very traditional to me. One thing I really liked was that long portions of one number were done with no music and the house lights on full -- the only noise was the dancer's feet banging against the floor and his breathing (and audience coughs and shuffles). A lot of time it seemed sort of concocted. (A screen with the big word "yes" on it in the middle of the stage for no apparent reason, for ex.)

3. Mostly, when I watch dancing, I sit there thinking, "what am I supposed to be thinking?" I constantly feel like I don't get it. I would have loved after one of these numbers to have everyone in the audience write down three words describing how it made them feel, and see what people said.

4. I expected the dancers to be supersexy, but not so much. The men were, I suppose. The women, over made up and scarily bony.

That is all; you may all return to your regularly scheduled business.

I keep on leaving but I don't leave, has that ever happen to you? (must see Dodger baseball)

one more thing before I leave

give Kemp an AB

144 With all due respect, I find that shocking. To me, if you are covering your employer you are, by definition, biased.

141. I'll agree with you that Gurnick is showing some bias, but I'm not sure whether its bc of pressure from his editors. I just have been used to beat writers just reporting news, and not injecting their own opinions into stories. Most newspapers have beat writers, and columnists. It seems like Gurnick tries to do both.

If baseball had anything like "time of possesion" the last few games must be records with the D's in the field for hours on end. Penny is near 60 pitches in the 2nd.

At least the D-backs look worse if possible--now 4-4.

150- Number 3 made me laugh.

Another report from the minors, Jacksonville won 1-0, winning run scored on a wild pitch. The Casey and Mark show continued, the Sun's set-up and closer with their sub 1.00 (Casey is sub .30) ERA.

139 - You know Guzman was yanked from a Triple-A game on May 28 for failing to run out a ground ball, right?

Penny must have an inordinate amount of foul balls. He's thrown near 60 pitches, but still only given up 1bb.

If Kenny Lofton was playing right field that might have been an inside the park home run

158. Yes I know. That doesnt bother me any more than watching guys strike out, and then taking off their batting gloves, lying their bat down at home plate, and waiting for the ballboys to pick up their stuff.

Its an annoyance, but I'm not going to write someone off and say they have bad character.

Anyways back to the game. Furcal hit like .330 in May but is hitting .195 in June.

Scully thinks Lofton has been playing exceptional baseball. What the heck does that guy know?

Scully has his own biases.

People have remarked that the D's want to get a look at Bills to see if they need to make a trade before the deadline. Looks to me like they better hope Bills does well AND make a trade.

158- In the history of the game, there's never been a player who didn't, at least once, fail to run out a routine grounder. I'm not saying it's a good thing, or that it was wrong for him to get pulled, but to turn that in to an indication of bad character is a major stretch. Using his refusal to talk to Gurnick as corroboration of the charge is even more flimsy.

There's a wide range of acceptable behavior for baseball players. Throwing bottles at drunken jerks in the bleachers is bad news. Chucking your bat at the ump is maybe even a worse sign. But not running out a grounder, once, or telling Gurnick to get lost, isn't.

8 pitch inning. That helps.

Even though he doesn't have a great arm anymore, Drew is still a very good defender. Especially after watching Shawn Green for 5 years.

Nate, since you and I are probably the only ones who listen, what do you think of their radio guy, I like him, he's informative, good sense of humor and not a homer.

163- No doubt that he does. He is employed by the Dodgers. However, after listening to him for decades, do you trust his assesments?

168 Doh!! I'm talking about the Vegas 51s announcer, sorry.

i like him alot. one of the better ones.

169 I don't know he's only seen 50+ years of baseball, he may have his bias but I think he knows baseball better than anyone on this board.

172- This is my point.

Take some freaking pitches Andre!

Bonds just made the D-Backs pay for not walking him with a man on second and first base open.

161, 165 - We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. However, JoeyP, I'm floored you equate loafing on a ball in play with not returning equipment to its proper place following a strikeout.

I switched to the hockey game at an opportune time. Edmonton just scored in OT to force a Game 6 back in Alberta.

How deep was that fly ball that Kent hit?

167 Was it really 5 years? I must admit my following the D's was at a low ebb then. He was supposed to be the second coming. What happened with him?

So, for those of you not keeping score, my Dodger Thoughts day began with Evel Knievel and ended (or near ended) with the Kirov Ballet.

Is this a great country or what?

Vinny thinks Pedro Feliz is a great player. The man can be wrong.

Looks like just the 2 innings Penny needed.
Now if we could get out of our own wheel ruts.

Its sort of like the players on both teams have decided to quicken the pace of this game by swinging early in the count. The last two innings were a blur.

i hate this ballpark

Oh! I thought he had another one!

Can anyone enlighten me on why lofton is starting over kemp?
over 400 point ops difference.

185. because there are 4 outfielders that are worthy of starting on a regular basis, so every day someone is going to get left out. yesterday was ethier's turn, today is kemp's.

While its true that getting ahead in the count is a good thing, for some reason, maybe because a batter a guesses right on location and pitch, if you hit the first pitch, historically you hit for a very high percentage, the best hitting count is 3-1, where again I think you are looking for a certain location but swinging at the first pitch results in more success than getting behind.

I hate shortstops.

Lofton has the intangibles. He lights a fire under the other players in the lineup. Expect him to hit a game winning home run.

Dave Stewart is Matt Kemp's agent. I knew that he was Billingsley's agent, but this is great news about Kemp. Stewart, unlike Boras, allows his clients to sign extensions before they hit free agency. That means future hall of famer, Matt Kemp, may play his entire career in a Dodgers uniform.

185 As I said earlier since Kemp's arrival, counting tonite's game. Lofton, Drew and Kemp have each started 11 times, Ethier 8 times and Cruz 4 times. Overall not bad for a guy just up from AA.

When Furcal's in a rut, its like having Izzy leadoff. I'm sure Furcal will turn it around, but I wouldnt mind having Aybar/Martin lead off 1/2 for a week. Putting Furcal at #8.

175- I'm happy to agree to disagree, but I'd like to be perfectly clear what we're disagreeing about. Do you think there have been players who ran out absolutely every groundball?

Anyway, untill there are a few more plot points on his character graph, I'm inclined to dismiss any dot connecting. Maybe the guy is a mopey jerk, but given as closely as he's been watched the last two seasons, these two cases don't do it for me. It seems just as likely that he's a great person as a clubhouse cancer. And, since there are half a billion possiblities between those two extremes, I'm not that worried about it.

189

basically any agent besides Boras will let their clients sign contracts before they hit free agency.

My question is will the Dodgers do what Cleveland did years ago and to some degree what Billy Beane does now, sign guys to extensions up to their FA year so you avoid arbitration but you don't get the relative inexpensive 2nd and 3rd year?

I hate shortstops.

Yes, but without them, there would be lots of hits to left field.

Penny has thrown 27 pitches in the last 3 innings. Come on guys, pick up some runs.

194

I think they will with the ones that warrant them. Its too early to tell who warrants a long term deal to buyout their arb years right now.

Stupid Lofton. Doing things like that.

That was scrappy!!!

193- Eric Chavez signed for below market value to stay in Oakland. Stewart is also his agent.

193

yep good point.

194- I think the answer is yes but not for another year or more. No reason to tie them up until you at least start to approach arbitration years.

I loath bunting on the first pitch of an at bat. Well, I loathe bunting in general.

194 It depends on what they do over the next couple of offseasons. Right now the Dodgers have very little money tied up past 2007, so it would probably for the best to wrap them up. They might not be able to afford it in 2006 however.

Wow. Given the situation, those are the worse back to back ABs we've seen Nomar and Drew have all year.

An Olney!
An Olney!
An Olney!
My kingdom for an Olney!

Whats with all the 1st ball hacking tonite? I know San Diego is a blast in the summertime, but these guys act as if the clubs are gonna close before 11pm.

Runner in scoring position, nobody out, and the heart of the order coming up. The run does not score.

Did anyone else have a flashback to 2005 and 2003, or was it just me?

206

maybe its the scouting report on the pitcher.

Darn scouts........

Now is the summer of our discontent
Made dismal winter by this son of Thomps

JtD would've gotten that. If he were still a SS. And hadn't been sent down.

That was a real cheapie by Piazza

211
And he wasn't sulking...

213- Trouble maker.

Thanks Adrian.

Hey Bob, "Serbia, et al" was much better than Serbegro...Nicely done.

216
Thanks, I saw it. It's still going to be Trinidad & Tobago however.

Tobago really made a good deal with the naming rights for that country. Sort of like Zanzibar getting recognition in Tanzania, which is a mixture of Tanganyika and Zanzibar.

Oh, but it's okay to throw the poor Montenegrans(?) under the bus?

Tanzania moved its captial 10 years ago!

Why wasn't I informed of this?

Good job by Penny. He was one pitch away from bases loaded/no outs but got out of it.

I believe they are Montenegrins.

Not sure why they use that spelling.

Because they're alway happy, of course :)

I love Alex Gonzalez Jr.

Ethier apparently has given up that "oakland" thing. At least Grits is happy.

Aybar gets some of the strangest strike calls I've ever seen. Its like the plate is widened everytime he bats.

We are making this guy look like Sandy Koufax.
Speaking of Thompsons, who was that guy who came up from Vegas last year when the starters went down. Was his name Eric Thompson or am I confusing his name. What happened to him whatever his name was.

224

he hit the ball hard. all you can ask.

Does Ethier think he's going to be benched for taking pitches? He's about as undisciplined as K Loft.

Broxton growing the facial hair out.

He wants to look like a closer.

Derek Thompson, injured last year I believe.

the reason penny gets so many foul balls is because he only throws 2 pitches. I havent seen him throw his split finger in about 2 months.

i hate dave roberts. man up and swing. stop trying to slap it.

Ten pitch at bat and an swunt. What a pest.

231 Thanks- haven't heard a peep about him.

Always liked Roberts.

230 Then he just needs the goggles* and he's all set.

*and the tweaked arm nerve

kemp saves!

holy smokes, i think this kid can play!

Why the heck do people throw Matt Kemp fastballs?

Un believable.

Does anyone else have a huge mancrush on Kemp right now?

And good question Reg, I continue to wonder why anyone is throwing him fastballs - he doesn't hit the offspeed stuff as well and he kills fastballs. Kills. That was smoked.

Darn! Kemp homered while I was cleaning out the catbox. Now I will I have to go do that every time the Dodgers need a big hit.

Why couldn't they rally when I was doing something like scratching my head?

240 Because they know he has a Jobu doll to take care of the curveballs.

Matt Kemp is a baseball god.

Kemp is a monster!!!

Why are Lofton/Ethier playing over him? Kemp needs to play every single game.

so now Kemp has hit as many HR's in the majors as he did in the AA, in ~150 less ab's

244 Dang, stole my joke.

Bob, you could kill two birds (or turds) with one stone and come clean my catbox and create another homerun. Just an idea.

What more does Kemp have to do to start everyday?

247 Okay, that concerns me.

so now Kemp has hit as many HR's in the majors as he did in the AA, in ~150 less ab's

the majors dont have CF fences 420 away from the plate.

251

why does that concern you?

Kemp with 35ABs in June. 7HRs 1.42 OPS. If he keeps this up he might be Player of the Month. Just play him everyday Grits! Let Lofton/Ethier platoon.

252. it wouldntve mattered on that last one. maybe Billingsley told him about LaRoche's bomb last night, and Kemp had to do him one better

253 Because that would tell me a collapse in inevitable. (Not that anyone playing at Kemp's rate would be due for a collapse) I would like to know if he's better than Pedro Cerrano.

If Grits knows how to make a double switch, Lofton will be out of the game and Kemp will be in center next inning.

What is the Dodger record for pinch homers in a season? Major League record?

258 I believe Dave Hansen has both. I think it's seven.

Grits does know what he's doing. Not only does Kemp stay in CF, but Kuo is pitching instead of Baez. He truly is the anti-Tracy!

251. its not as if he was struggling in jacksonville

Awesome no more Lofton. Grits actually made a good mood. I had a bad feeling he'd double switch out Drew again, but maybe he's learning.

Did anyone see that Kemp AB? I only saw it on gameday, and I was talking to my mother no less. I think she nearly caught on to something being up when I got distracted, seeing "run scoring play" come up with no one on base.

Regarding why pitchers still throw him fastballs; I think it's at least partly because Kent has shown an ability to lay off breaking balls. I remember the Pedro AB--Pedro tried to get him to chase curveballs away, and Kemp refused to take the bait. Pedro found himself behind in the count and tried to bust him inside with a fb. It wasn't a bad pitch, but Kemp's so quick he turned on it and hit it out. He's like the anti-Beltre (excluding Beltre's MVP-caliber year).

WWSH

Great start for Guo (BB to Giles).
vr, Xei

Make that kemp is opsing 500 points higher than lofton.
But he's benched for lofton, go figure.

Come on Kuo--throw a strike!

WWSH

If Guo is gonna play miss the strike zone again I hope they have him on a short leash. Sigh.

The Dodger record for pinch homers in a seaon is also the major league record, 7 by Dave Hansen in 2000. Craig Wilson also had 7 in 2001.

The record for a team in one year is 14 by the Giants and DBacks, both in 2001.

In three years, I'd like to see two Taiwanese players on the squad--Kuo as lefty setup man and Hu as SS. But Kuo needs to get his control in order.

WWSH

Kemp-These things are America to Me.

263. thats true, the first pitch was a slider off the plate that Kemp took, next pitch was a fastball down the middle-maybe a little away, that he hit about 425 ft.

265. Kemp was not "benched" for Lofton, he had the day off because we have the luxury of 4 starting outfielders. Kemp is forcing the issue, though.

96mph heat in the strike zone, with his delivery is nasty.

Kuo recovers with a K. Nice.

Anyone able to tell me the velocity on his FB?

WWSH

Yay, we reverse-jinxed him!

269. Does DT have a nickname for Hu yet? The possibilites are endless.
vr, Xei

273

96 consistently.

273. 94-96

just touched 97.

It'd be nice if Kuo could throw a first pitch strike.

Re: 272 I just watched all of the first Spiderman movie on DVD--you must have had spider sense or something on that post, Nate.

WWSH

Kaka!
vr, Xei

kuo blows it. darnit!

Not starting Kemp is Crazy (with a capital C). You have to be rowing a boat without oars not to have Kemp in the lineup.

*&@#!#^$^!sassinfrassin'%#!&$^!

I never thought I'd say this.
But start Izturis.
Bench Furcal.

This is getting ridiculous.

How many games do we have left? Assume Kemp plays every day, averages 3 abs per game, at his present rate, how many homeruns would he hit? We know it won't happen but wouldn't that be interesting?

Bad play by Ethier, terrible throw by Fookie. You can't let James Loney Sr. beat you.

This was the hardest I've seen Kuo throw in the majors too. He was consistently hitting 96.

Looks like another loss for the Dodgers.

282. Tracy (oops) I mean Grittle is just trying to put Kemp in the best possible situation to succeed. If Lofton starts wearing goggles, then it's time to get worried. vr, Xei

Kemp was not "benched" for Lofton, he had the day off because we have the luxury of 4 starting outfielders.

I'd argue that there are 3 OF's far and away better than the rest. Drew, Kemp versus anyone. And Cruz vs LHP.

That leaves Ethier/Lofton to platoon vs RHP.

285 Assuming he gets 400 at bats, at his current rate he'd hit 71.

GROAN.

Give Little credit for showing confidence in the rookie and not going to Baez. Unfortunately, Kuo didn't come through.

Maybe Kemp will hit another dinger.

WWSH

288. Kemp only hits home runs. He's way too one dimensional. :)
vr, Xei

Baez Inherited runners stranded/scored has to be amongst the worst in the majors.

I mean Lofton, Cruz, Ethier, who cares? Drew and Kemp start every game. One of the other three gets the rest as determined by a hearty game of rock/paper/scissors (a method that is at least less arbitrary than Jim Tracy's lineup methods), and games when Drew doesn't play (and there are certainly enough of those). This is not a debatable proposition.

Re: 290

Meaning at the start of the inning.

WWSH

293. StartMattKemp.Com??
vr, Xei

Maybe staying on the wagon is what's wrong with Furcal. Maybe a good drunk would snap him out of it...

Re: 293

Agreed.

That being said, I don't think Little's conservatism has been totally indefensible up to this point. Kemp's been unreal so far, and one can never expect this kind of start.

Nevertheless, he's forced the issue, so I hope Grittle realizes that now. He's not like Ethier--a promising rookie that should be eased in. Bison should be out there EVERY day no matter what.

WWSH

Hoffman's old. Two runs isn't insurmountable.

WWSH

Assume Kemp plays every day, averages 3 abs per game, at his present rate, how many homeruns would he hit?

52 hr's, thats extremely good considering 65 games have been played already

Just another inherited run allowed for Baez.
JAIRAFB

I never thought I'd say this.
But start Izturis.
Bench Furcal.
Agree and Izturis is actually walking in AAA. Furcal has to play somewhere, but it can't be SS. Maybe move Aybar to LF and Furcal to 3B? I can't see Furcal moving to outfield and they definitely won't bench him.

292 Baseball Prospectus has a stat called inherited runs pervented (basically inherited runs against replacement).

Baez is still at a sub replacement level -1, but that's not even in the bottom 30 in all of baseball.

Kent-Ethier-Aybar-Martin. Not bad for the next four batters. If we get as far as Baez's slot, go to Olmedo.

WWSH

Baez is still at a sub replacement level -1, but that's not even in the bottom 30 in all of baseball.

A sterling recommendation.

302

I think Kemp is already in that spot.

The whole West separated by 2 games. And we have no pitching. Darn.

Furcal's a better player than he's shown so far, and better than what we can reasonably expect with Izzy. I'd stick with him, for now. I just don't think Izzy will ever be anything more than a 280 batter who doesn't walk and has no power.

WWSH

303 I like to look at the bright side of things. Right now saying Baez isn't the worst reliever in baseball is about as good as it gets.

300 -

Walking in AA
Nobody walks in AA

Walkin' walkin' walkin' walkin' walkin'
Nobody's walkin' walkin' walkin' walkin' walkin'

http://www.lyricsdownload.com/missing-persons-walking-in-l-a-lyrics.html

Re: 304

You're right--oops. Only Tracy would do something as stupid as sit Kemp for Olmedo.

WWSH

Izturis need to play short and Furcal to 3rd. I know he doesn't want to but the words "I don't care what you want" come to mind.
Problem is that that means there is no place for Aybar. We can all agree that there are plenty of guys deserving of playing time in the outfiled already. So Aybar gets packaged in a trade for pitching.

300. The team doesnt lose that much with Izturis bc I think Grits would be smart enough to bat him 8th. If Furcal isnt hitting (which he isnt right now), he's really hurting the club cuz Grits keeps him in that leadoff spot.

Lets start Izzy and see if he can drum up some trade value.

Aybar's earned the starting 3B job. IMO, that means Izzy should go.

WWSH

310. Izzy and Furcal both do not deserve to start over Aybar at this point. You cant carry both of them in the lineup.

There's no way I'd bench Aybar for either one of them.

Wait, did we just pinch hit for the guy who almost hit two home runs today.

Olmedo for Martin. I can live with that. I guess you'd want the power threat here.

WWSH

So Ethier gets to hit but Aybar doesn't? That makes a ton of sense....

306-Yeah, except that Izzy is a pearl in the field, and Furcal is basically Edward Scissorhands with a uniform. I agree with GregS, package Aybar # Navarro for a three starter, or add another for a legit #2.

Kemp on deck?
vr, Xei

Ughhh... I'll shut up now. Probably jinxed it. Especially with the accidental lineup error. Meant to say Aybar of course.

WWSH

Why would Furcal be any better at third? Then we would have two banjo hitters on the left side of the infield with only the marginal improvement that will come from a better-fielding shortstop to show for it. If Izturis is going to play shortstop, just bench Furcal. At this point, Furcal is a 13 million Izturis who can't catch, so I don't really care which one plays, but not both.

think I would have rather seen Aybar and Saenz than Saenz and Martinez.

Saenz for Aybar? Not Grittle's best night.

I can't believe we pinch hit for a guy who hit a home run today.

Lame.

I don't mind Furcal in the starting lineup, especially if Izzy is your best alternative. I just don't like him hitting in the leadoff spot. Bat him 8th until he starts hitting.
vr, Xei

All manager's are stupid catagory: Why have Daenz, a great double play candidate, hit for Aybar? Smart manager would have had him hit for Furcal, if we get that far...

321- Honestly, I agree with you. I wish that with Izturis coming back, we didn't have Furcal. I wish we never signed him. He's not terrible, he's just no better an all around player than Izturis and we already have Izturis... for 1/3 the price. But he's here and he's not going to sit. sigh.

321. Exactly. At this point you disregard salary and play the best guy.

Aybar at 3rd.
Izzy at SS.
Furcal to bench.

I dont want to consider a lineup of Izzy, Pitcher, Furcal, Lofton. Way too much banjo.

326 Make that Saenz...

I wasnt paying attention, but did Grits just pinch hit for Saenz for Aybar? Is Hoffman ambidextrous? I could almost be certain Hoffman throws right handed, and Saenz vs RHP isnt the best scenario.
Luckily, Kemp's HR is enough sun to take away the dark clouds of that decision.

Sorry to ask a dumb question but I can't figure it out. How do you link to a past post?

1) I never thought Fur-kel could play bad enough to make me sanguine at the thought of Izturis coming back, but there you go.

2) I would really enjoy watching Kuo pitch from ahead in a count. He should try it sometime.

3) I will not get sucked into a debate about Kenny Lofton. Kenny Lofton is irrelevant. Matt Kemp should play every day until he is 39. There is no set of circumstances under which this is not true. The rest of you can debate who should have the third outfield spot if such is your choosing.

Shift-8 "quote" Shift-8

Basically put enclose what you want to quote with stars.

grittle made two mistakes

1- bringing in baez for kuo. You need the strikeout in that situation, Kuo strikes batters out, baez doesnt.

2- PH for aybar with saenz. I can maybe understand it if Saenz has a good history against Hoffman but he is hitless against Hoffman.

everything else can be put on the offense for sucking against a crappy pitcher.

With the Dodgers luck somebody is bound to get injured again. Too bad Nomar can't move to LF. Then we could move Kent to 1B, Furcal to 2B, Kemp to CF and Kenny to the bench. Will Boston take Furcal? At time, I thought he was a pretty good signing because he was coming off a very solid offensive and great defensive season. This year he's been pretty average offensively and his defense has stunk. If Izturis can produce like he did in 2004, we're better off with him playing SS and batting 8th. Aybar would be a much better leadoff hitter than Furcal anyways. You don't need to have great speed to be a good leadoff hitter. Even Jim Tracy recognized that Aybar had the skills that smart teams look for in a leadoff hitter.

328 Clubhouse politics will prevent that happening. But I think Furcal is the worst infielder on this team right now.

Just another walk for Izturis!

He's becoming the Venezuelan God of Walks, stealing the title from Bobby Abreu.

Do you think it will ever happen, a demented fan really shoots a "pitcer" like Baez for the good of the team? Not me, I'm a coward, but I do get so angry at managers constantly using incompetent players, players that even the most casual fans know are no good, that I sometimes avoid baseball altogether for months at a time.

I actually remember a couple of Braves fans posting that immediately after Furcal hits a homer, he goes into a slump, bc he starts trying to hit homers. I'm not sure if its true, but I do remember Furcal hitting that big HR against Glavine. He hasnt done much since. Hitting .190 in June.

Basically put enclose what you want to quote with stars
So that's how you quote, thanks. But how do you link to the post as 336 does to 328? Sorry folks, didn't know where else to go to get the answer.

336 Aybar's 86 rate2 would beg to differ. Actually, the entire infield, with the exception of Kent, has been really lowsy.

340. I'm not sure how to underline. I've always just put the number with a period by it.

339 I'm sure as can be that you're right. He hit 2 home runs that night against the Mets and he has been swinging from the heals since. Remember his long fly ball just foul tonight? Bad sign.

340 There is a 'bracket' key (2 actually) immediately right of the 'L' key. Put the brackets before and after the posting you want to refer to.

341- If that's true, those stats have been watching a 1st baseman other than Nomar.

This is how you underline

346 Not helpful. 340 The semicolon or the colon? Neither seem to work.

Put underscores "_" around whatever you want to underline.

On the link you do brackets 348

The brackets are next to the "P" key on a qwerty keyboard.

like this or this 348
Got it!! Brackets just right of the "P" on my Powerbook.
Thanks guys!

347 Nomar: 96 rate2, not lowsy, but below average.

Well, tomorrow will be a big day for the Dodgers and for DT. I've got to take my Dad out for Father Day since I'll be at the game in Oakland on Sunday. TIVO!
Have fun tomorrow. Hopefully Bills will be the next Kemp.

347- That's because the brackets are actually to the right of the P key. Link like this [X], where X is the number you're linking to.

lol "Americas funniest Center Field Videos"

352 I like stats but they are not the end all. Nomar is playing a strong 1st base. Any stat that says otherwise makes me doubt the stat, not the player.

And the refresh button is up next to the address bar, between the stop and forward buttons. On my browser, anyway. Sorry.

351 -- Anybody who would take that much grief for Kenny Lofton and keep coming back for more has to be a pretty good guy, and worth allowing into the secret DT club of linking, bolding, and underlining.

358 Kenny and I both thank you.

Anybody here in the Bay Area? outside chance I'll have an extra ticket for the game Sunday.

Well, I tried.

360- I wish I was back in the Bay Area right now. Some of my friends are still in college and I miss seeing A's games.

337 - Someone must have watched those catchable fly balls clank off of Abreu's "Gold Glove" tonight!

357 - I call Firefox on you! And I think 346 just might be book-worthy...

...wow, I just realized I will be able to go to a ballgame Fri night in which COLE HAMELS (he has earned the underline) will pitch against Jamie Shields. But who to root for?? Or should I just prepare for a Haddix-ian display of endless scoreless innings, one after the other?

Here is a link to a story on the ESPN website by Keith Law regarding the unconditional release of Russ Ortiz from the D-Backs yesterday.

It should be mandatory reading for Ned Colletti and the rest of the Dodger brass regarding Odalis Perez.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=2483498

I think I need to mention a few things about Furcal. Some are observations, others historical accuracies.

Number one: Furcal has difficulty hitting at Dodger Stadium. I think a big part of his struggles offensively have a lot to do with this issue. I'm not sure exactly why he has trouble hitting in LA but he does and that doesn't seem to be changing much.

Number two: (observation) He is a punch and Judy hitter who has consistently hit around .240 this year. I don't see him vaulting into the .280 and above category at anytime this year due to the problems hitting at home and his tendency to hit fly-balls at the top of the lineup. (How many times have we seen Furcal make out leading off only to see Lofton get the prototypical base hit in the 2 hole?). He should not be batting leadoff, Lofton should.

Number Three: He appears unable to steal bases at the present time.

Number Four: It's almost rhetorical to discuss his defense. We know the problems that he has by his 16 boots. But that doesn't also take into account his lack of range up the middle, his letting the ball play him, his playing back much too often, his footwork problems and his overthrowing. In general,his liability in the most critical position infield.
Granted it is a new stadium for him. These could all be adjustments if it weren't for...

Number Five: He is an alcoholic.
How many more reruns of Cops do we need to see in order to be reminded of this life destroying, soul crushing and family shattering illness that no man defeats without help? I think that Furcal needs to be drug tested immediately for substances. His background suggests that he needs constant monitoring and the Dodgers should demand it as part of the contract, otherwise they should be able to terminate it and get the insurance.

If you live by the sword you die by the sword. To trade Izturis right now would be madness.

365- Number one is just wrong. He's hitting: .288/.371/.424 at home this year.

Number two is wrong, too. Here are his month by month numbers

April- .198/.306/.219
May- .311/.366/.429
June- .191/.283/.319

That's the opposite of a consistent .240.

nice play by aybar