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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Tremendous Father's Day Gift
2006-06-18 08:07
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Vin Scully talks about his stepfather, Allan Reeve - the man he called "Dad" - to Steve Henson of the Times:

Dad was working late as usual, finishing up a 14-hour shift at the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Vin Scully had finished his homework and was getting sleepy. Although something was on his mind, he couldn't wait up, so he wrote a note and put it on his dad's breakfast plate before going to bed.

It was 1943 and Vin was 15. His stepfather, Allan Reeve, left for work each morning at 4:30, riding buses and subways to the shipyard, often not returning home until after nightfall.

Reeve had an opportunity to take a civilian job on a ship headed to the combat zone in Europe. The money would be good, maybe even enough to get the family out of its $40-a-month, fifth-story walk-up apartment in Washington Heights.

Vin had only a hazy memory of his biological father dying of pneumonia 11 years earlier, but he knew the toll it had taken on his mother, Bridget. The thought of losing Reeve, a reserved, pipe-smoking Englishman who had brought stability and love to the household, terrified him. ...

I hope the time I spend following the Dodgers has some value, because there are so many other things I could be doing with it. I guess I have to console myself with the fact that Scully does the same thing - and has some of the same misgivings, as we see later in the story - though at least he fed his family with it.

The Times also has stories from Sam Farmer on the fathers of John Wooden, Arte Moreno and Anita DeFrantz. You won't be shocked about the kind of man Joshua Wooden was.

Happy Father's Day.

* * *

Today's Game

Comments (189)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-18 09:11:22
1.   Bob Timmermann
While John Wooden's father was a "horse whisperer", I'm a "cat whisperer." I can calm down many a cat.

Vin does not talk about his childhood very much. I think that this article should shed a little understanding why Vin doesn't want to make the East Coast and Midwest road trips anymore.

2006-06-18 10:01:20
2.   Bluebleeder87
great read
2006-06-18 10:13:19
3.   Bluebleeder87
Arte Moreno & I have a couple of things in common
2006-06-18 10:39:30
4.   dzzrtRatt
1 Yes, but that policy didn't begin until sometime in the past 10 years. Scully's 78 now. When his children were young, he didn't have the leverage to pick and choose he has now -- or didn't realize he did.

In the 70s, he also broadcast pro football and the PGA, so he didn't have much of an off-season until he was near the age when a lot of people retire.

This is not to criticize Scully. A man with kids, especially as many as he had, feels primal pressures to be the breadwinner. If it's a choice between time off or more money in the kitty for college tuition, most men reach for the money. It's in our DNA.

2006-06-18 10:59:37
5.   Ken Arneson
Happy Father's Day. I will be at the game today, as well. I got home very late last night.

I think Joe Blanton with throw 110 pitches today, whether he gives up 0 runs or 110. Of course, I'm fasting Joe Blanton right now, so I can't watch him, so I guess I'll be watching the batter or the shortstop or the right fielder or something.

2006-06-18 11:07:16
6.   Bluebleeder87
I hope we jump all over the A's pitcher today, he's 6-6 with a 5.04 ERA
2006-06-18 11:07:41
7.   Bluebleeder87
5

Happy father's day to you too.

2006-06-18 11:10:56
8.   Bob Timmermann
Isn't today the day they're moving the 7th inning stretch to the 6th for something about prostate cancer awareness?
2006-06-18 11:19:53
9.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
There seems to be a certain sadness to Vin's comments about all the traveling he's done. I still remember some quote of his that he used to lie in bed in hotel rooms hearing his life tick away. Or something like that. Similar to the comments he made in the article today.

Was this something that occurred more after his son passed away?

That being said, he seems to be a genuinely happy and upbeat guy most of the time.

WWSH

2006-06-18 11:20:16
10.   DougS
1, 4 I'd always assumed that Vin not making the road trips anymore has to do with not wanting to have to deal with the travel as he gets older, and having the clout to enforce it. It can be a grind, and it probably ceases to be terribly amusing after a certain point in your life. I used to marvel at how Chick Hearn kept up with the full travel schedule into his 80's, and even right up to the end. And Chick didn't even have to deal with games that ran 5 hours.
2006-06-18 11:22:18
11.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Speaking of Vin, does anyone know where I can find a transcript, or better yet, a recording of Vin's call of the infamous Roseboro/Marichal fight. I've always wondered how he called that--Vin's such a truly gentle spirit, and I'm curious as to how he would have dealt with Marichal attacking Roseboro with a bat.

WWSH

2006-06-18 11:29:34
12.   Bob Timmermann
There was a series of articles in the LA Times in 1966 about Scully. I believe it was three parts.

He talked about going on road trips and spending a lot of time hanging out in bookstores and reading James Joyce all the time. He spoke a lot about how much time he was missing with his family then.

There were photos of Vin's first wife there too. I believe they were set up by someone in the Dodgers front office.

It's a very interesting read if you ever get a chance to see it. You can view pdfs of the LA Times online at a lot of libraries.

2006-06-18 11:34:47
13.   Greg Brock
Happy Father's Day everybody
2006-06-18 11:35:16
14.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 12

Vin reading Finnegan's Wake in a bookstore for grins..... =) What a nice image.

Next time I'm in a big research library, I'll look those articles up. I don't think our version of Proquest Historical Newspapers includes the LAT.

WWSH

2006-06-18 11:36:57
15.   Bob Timmermann
You might be able to access it remotely. I can, but Your Library May Vary.

I won't be seeing the whole game today. It's a good day to interact with the outside world.

2006-06-18 11:37:36
16.   Bob Timmermann
The return of Mark Prior is not a triumphant one for the Cubs. The Tigers lead 4-0 in the first.
2006-06-18 11:38:11
17.   Bob Timmermann
Whoops 6-0 Tigers.

Homers by Granderson, Guillen, and Shelton.

2006-06-18 12:01:34
18.   Gen3Blue
That story is a treat.
Just saw a D.Wright grand slam.
CBS Game Center is an alternative to to Gameday with somewhat quicker posting(so far) and logging of Fast vs. Breaking Balls.
For internet reasons, I will still use Gameday most likely.
2006-06-18 12:04:10
19.   Linkmeister
I flew between HNL and LAX every other week while in my 30s, and it got old real fast. I can imagine what it must feel like for broadcasters in their 60s and 70s.

Another thing about sportscasting that would drive me batty is all the downtime between games.

Happy Fathers' Day to all of you so blessed (YMMV).

2006-06-18 12:10:02
20.   DXMachina
11 - There may not be one. I read in a story about Scully's call of the ninth inning of Koufax's perfect game that they only used to record the game for posterity if something big could happen, such as a potential no-hitter. Even then it would only be the ninth inning.
2006-06-18 12:12:58
21.   Greg Brock
20 You can download the Vinny perfecto call somewhere. I have it, but I don't remember where I got it.
2006-06-18 12:18:03
22.   Linkmeister
20, 21 Here's one source for it:

http://www.doubledogmusic.com/baseball/Scully_Koufax_Perfect.mp3

2006-06-18 12:25:22
23.   DougS
21, 22
"Two and two to Harvey Kuenn..."

When I was a kid, I got a Topps promotional record (a 45), with snippets of great recorded moments from baseball history. It included the end of Lou Gehrig's farewell speech, Curt Gowdy calling Ted Williams' last home run, and of course, Vin calling the final strike of Koufax's perfecto. It was a great little artifact, except that it also included Russ Hodges calling Bobby Thomson's home run (bleagh!).

2006-06-18 12:27:49
24.   Humma Kavula
Now 8-1 Tigers. Prior gives up another homer, to Vance Wilson... and Dusty pulls Prior.

Final line:

3.2 7 8 7 1 2 4

His ERA is 17.18.

2006-06-18 12:29:07
25.   Bob Timmermann
Wouldn't the 1965 Marichal-Roseboro game have been televised? About the only games the Dodgers showed on TV then were games at San Francisco.

So, Scully would have been on the TV end (the incident happened in the third) and Doggett would have been on radio.

I believe the two men switched off every three innings in those days.

2006-06-18 12:30:09
26.   Bob Timmermann
Oh, and since the game was televised, I doubt there is any tape of it anymore since it was pretty rare in those days for TV stations to hold on to recordings for a lengthy period of time.
2006-06-18 12:31:04
27.   ToyCannon
Happy Fathers Day

Furcal
Aybar
Nomar
Drew
Kemp
Ethier
Cruz
Alomar
Martinez

Nice to see Aybar batting 2nd. Hopefully the defense gives Sele better support this game and that the ball stays in the yard. Blanton has been awfull but is coming off one of his few excellent starts. Doesn't seem to be anything in between for this guy he's either Tomko/OP/Seo bad or very good but with more of the very bad then the good so far. OP and Kuo better be ready to pitch a few innings today.

2006-06-18 12:31:44
28.   Bob Timmermann
As for today's game, Martinez is at 2nd and Aybar is at 3rd, Alomar at catcher, Drew is the DH and the outfield goes Ethier-Kemp-Cruz.
2006-06-18 12:32:15
29.   Bob Timmermann
40 seconds late and not nearly as informative....
2006-06-18 12:43:05
30.   ToyCannon
I remember all the grief the Twins got for taking Mauer instead of Prior. Now they have the best catcher in baseball and the Cubs just have another "couldabeen". All this because the Cubs drafted Ben Christensen and gave him mega money when he should of been keelhauled. You would think the Cubs have suffered enough bad luck since 1999 but evidently the bad karma they created still has a credit due. Or is that a debit:)
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2879
2006-06-18 12:46:23
31.   Bob Timmermann
The Nats win on a rare play in this day. A walkoff homer given up the starting pitcher.

Wang had one out in the 9th and a 2-1 lead and gave up a single to Anderson and a homer to Zimmerman.

2006-06-18 12:48:20
32.   Bob Timmermann
And Jon Garland is representing the SFV today!

He homered in the 8th in Cincinnati and the White Sox lead the Reds 8-0 in the 9th. Guillen pulled him after he gave two hits.

2006-06-18 12:51:30
33.   ToyCannon
That is two awesome wins in a row by the Nat's over the hated Yankee's. SamDC must be a happy camper.
2006-06-18 12:59:57
34.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 26

Well, oh well, such is life. Not everything gets preserved.

WWSH

2006-06-18 13:04:38
35.   Bob Timmermann
34
They don't have tapes of the first two Super Bowls either. There are small portions that have been saved and there is NFL Films footage, but the original broadcast does not exist.

And for Super Bowl I, TWO networks showed it at the same time.

2006-06-18 13:07:58
36.   herman
If we had any kind of pitching we would be running away with the division.
2006-06-18 13:08:36
37.   herman
I can't wait for ceaser to return.
2006-06-18 13:10:15
38.   natepurcell
37

and izturis wasnt an out machine either?

2006-06-18 13:11:08
39.   herman
Yes he was but at least he can play defense.
2006-06-18 13:12:48
40.   Gen3Blue
Oh dear, could this be one of Blantons good days.
2006-06-18 13:12:49
41.   Sam DC
I'm mostly happy to have watched my son jump and down so hard he fell off the couch on that Zimm homer. H'es slowly shifting loyalties from Gary Majewski to Ryan Zimmerman has favorite player. I'm not disgouraging him.

It's hard not to take on the Nationals as a secondary team in the circumstances; but Jim Bowden and Frank Robinson do make it somewhat easier. I'm still in transition.

31 And Wang -- an AL pitcher no less -- batted in the top of the Ninth!

Happy's Father Day.

2006-06-18 13:17:52
42.   herman
Sele is falling behind every hitter. Not a good sign.
2006-06-18 13:18:55
43.   herman
We have to be patient at the plate. We need to to make the opposing pitcher work.
2006-06-18 13:20:06
44.   natepurcell
43

I think we should swing at everything.

2006-06-18 13:21:34
45.   herman
44- Your a funny guy.
2006-06-18 13:22:01
46.   Gen3Blue
36 It feels like Weaver and Houlton offered better starts last year than the bottom of the staff this year(especially the last few weeks.)
I'm not asking for Weaver back,mind you.
2006-06-18 13:22:46
47.   natepurcell
Kemp takes huge Vlad like steps when he runs.
2006-06-18 13:23:57
48.   herman
We could get Weaver for a low graded prospect. Plus we can get draft picks when we let him walk again.
2006-06-18 13:25:03
49.   Gen3Blue
Well, Ethier tried to take a few pitches!

Wow, Kemp looks like a running back, but it scares me wit each landing.( for injuries)

2006-06-18 13:26:41
50.   thinkblue88
Poor Cubbies, 8 homers off their pitching staff
today and it's still not over.

Go Dodgers!

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-18 13:26:49
51.   natepurcell
Ethier's in a slump. All of those that say he should be sent down are ridiculous. you dont send down every rookie when they are in slumps. they have to figure out how to work through them.
2006-06-18 13:27:16
52.   Linkmeister
How the heck did Kemp get doubled off?

(Cursed Prime Ticket again not showing the game!)

2006-06-18 13:27:35
53.   Bob Timmermann
50
That's the second time this year the Cubs have given up 8 homers in a game.
2006-06-18 13:28:59
54.   herman
52- It's on ch. 9.
2006-06-18 13:29:36
55.   Gen3Blue
Gameday is making it look like Sele isn't missing by much, and may be getting really squeezed by the ump. Of, course, you can't really tell from game day.What does it look like live?
2006-06-18 13:29:54
56.   DXMachina
52 - He was running on the pitch.
2006-06-18 13:30:43
57.   herman
I love our back half of our pitching staff.
2006-06-18 13:30:50
58.   natepurcell
55

sele is missing high... by a lot.

2006-06-18 13:30:57
59.   Bob Timmermann
All 12 of Detroit's runs have come on home runs.
2006-06-18 13:30:59
60.   Brian Y
Im hoping Ned solves our pitching problems. A couple of interesting options would be Clement and Wells from Boston for Odalis and Tomko.

Also I could see a Jae Seo, Mark Alexander for Jeremy Affeldt trade when he's healthy.

2006-06-18 13:32:37
61.   herman
Dessens can be had.
2006-06-18 13:33:25
62.   Linkmeister
56 Thanks.

54 That doesn't do we Hawai'i fans much good. ;)

2006-06-18 13:33:55
63.   Brian Y
61. I'd take Dessens if they'd take Jose Cruz.
2006-06-18 13:34:08
64.   herman
NICE.
2006-06-18 13:37:02
65.   herman
Alomar=swing at everything.
2006-06-18 13:37:22
66.   herman
He is proving me wrong.
2006-06-18 13:37:48
67.   herman
nevermind.
2006-06-18 13:43:02
68.   Bluebleeder87
atleast Sele got out of that inning unscaved.
2006-06-18 13:46:40
69.   Bluebleeder87
Let's get a DP
2006-06-18 13:55:14
70.   Gen3Blue
58 thanks I wish you were locating the pitches for Gameday--high is usually not good for a pitcher like Sele.
2006-06-18 13:57:56
71.   Dodger Tony
Sele gets out of the jam cheaply enough. Oh, sorry Vin.

The Dodgers baserunning the last two games has been really shakey. I coun't four botches now since yesterday.

If Sele begins a significant decline you can actually say that we really only now have ONE dependable pitcher in Brad Penny. The Dodgers don't seem to win with Derrick Lowe on the mound no matter how low his ERA is.

I thought Seo looked really good on Friday and reverted on Saturday. I was hopeful he could make it back into the rotation but not now. What a frightening waste of a brilliant bullpen performance yesterday. I guess only Kuo and Perez would be available today, with maybe Saito to close. Sele has to go seven.

Why have we stopped hitting with RISP? Why have we stopped hitting? The A's pitchers are good but this happened in San Diego as well. It seems like they started to have problems right after Kent returned but I don't think there is a connection. Both SD and A's have top rate staffs. I think it's emotional as well and that the loss of Gagne really hit the team hard in that area.

The West will be won by a team ten games under .500 (joke joke).

Wow. Why are the A's using their starters and we are using our bench?

2006-06-18 14:02:29
72.   DXMachina
71 Why are the A's using their starters and we are using our bench?

Because having Jason Kendall break down from overuse would actually help the A's.

2006-06-18 14:04:02
73.   Gen3Blue
Baseball seems to draw mightily on group psychology, and at the present we are going through one of these periods when no one can hit, and it doesn't matter who the pitcher is. Of course we have had periods earlier in the season when it was completely opposite. One of the things about baseball. So it goes in BB, so it goes in Life.
2006-06-18 14:05:22
74.   ory
Cruz should have tried harder for that fly ball
2006-06-18 14:10:00
75.   Gen3Blue
As much as I would like to blame all this situation on Sele, part of it is because we got no offense for the first half of the game, and gave no indication that that would change.
This funk should end at some point, and it seems no matter how long a losing streak we can run up, in this division it won't hurt much.
2006-06-18 14:11:05
76.   Gen3Blue
Come on now, Seles in collapse, put a fork in him.
2006-06-18 14:11:14
77.   Gen3Blue
Come on now, Seles in collapse, put a fork in him.
2006-06-18 14:12:57
78.   scooplew
It is become clear that we need another starting pitcher, perhaps two. With Billingsley having been called up, there doesn't seem to be anyone else we can call up to take a spot in the rotation. The NL West is winnable, but only if we acquire more solid pitching. If a top-line pitcher were available -- the likes of Willis or Zito or someone similar -- I propose putting a rich package that would include Izturis or Fucal (although his salary would likely block a deal), Navarro and (gulp!) Guzman. I would only do such a move if the pitcher could be signed to a long-time deal.
2006-06-18 14:15:14
79.   Bluebleeder87
never give NEVER SURENDER!
2006-06-18 14:18:00
80.   Bluebleeder87
79

never give up never surender! Is what I meant sorry

2006-06-18 14:23:42
81.   Gen3Blue
Is that my favorite line from Galaxy Quest?
2006-06-18 14:28:39
82.   Bluebleeder87
81

that was a good flik

2006-06-18 14:29:15
83.   Gen3Blue
OP almost strikes out the side.
Can we give him a little support?
2006-06-18 14:30:51
84.   Bluebleeder87
NOMAR!
2006-06-18 14:35:27
85.   Gen3Blue
Another rally killer
2006-06-18 14:38:05
86.   natepurcell
loney just hit his 4th homerun of the season off jered weaver. his season OPS is 950
2006-06-18 14:43:02
87.   Vishal
vinny's in fine spirits today :)
2006-06-18 14:51:25
88.   Greg Brock
For the plaid pants wearing set:

Looks like another massacre at Winged Foot, where Lefy, Padraig Harrington, and Ben Ogilvy share the lead at +4. Just thought you should know.

2006-06-18 14:57:29
89.   Gen3Blue
Loney's hitting at LV can't be diminished even though its PCL. The one thing that can increase for many years in ones career is power. A fine fielding left-handed 1st baseman hitting over .350 and only 22 years old(at the most). I see someone like Olerude or even Grace.
2006-06-18 14:58:58
90.   Uncle Miltie
Swisher shouldn't have run there. Good throw by Ethier. Perez is looking pretty good so far.
2006-06-18 15:01:13
91.   Uncle Miltie
89- Loney doesn't walk like Olerud or Grace. Besides a couple hundred at bats in Vegas and Great Falls, Loney hasn't done anything to indicate that he'll be a batting champ.
2006-06-18 15:04:11
92.   Blu2
Question: Do you give Nomar a three year contract next year for $10 million per, or bring up Loney for $335,000 and put that $10 million towards a good pitcher?
2006-06-18 15:05:45
93.   Gen3Blue
I was afraid I was going to get away with too much optimism.
But anything could happen after" Perez is looking pretty good so far".

At least Furcal tried to bunt, realizing another weak grouder wouldn't help.

2006-06-18 15:07:54
94.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 92

I'd bring up Loney. Nomah's been too banged up as of late, and at that position, I don't think he'd be worth the difference between him and Loney.

If he keeps it up, though, I see Ned giving him the big contract. And Canuck will rightfully blow a gasket.

WWSH

2006-06-18 15:08:40
95.   Gen3Blue
92 that questions unfair after Nomars last at bat. Sometimes he is the only one who can hit when we go into a slump like this.
Still--- I'll take the pitcher!
2006-06-18 15:09:05
96.   bill cox
91-Uncle Miltie, give it a rest on Loney.He's been injury free and hitting well since last June including the Arizona Fall League.Other than a late slump,he showed pretty well in the bigs earlier this year.
Hanrihan starting in Vegas today. I'd rather see him get called up than most of the rag arms allegedly availible.
2006-06-18 15:09:34
97.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
The other issue with 1B is that Guzman's also a possible long-term solution there.

WWSH

2006-06-18 15:10:03
98.   herman
Perez has pitched his way back into the rotation. That might be a bad thing. He needs to use his fastball to be more effective. Hitters seem to sit on his off speed pitches.
2006-06-18 15:10:06
99.   Gen3Blue
Who's Canuck?
2006-06-18 15:10:35
100.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 96

I want to see Hanrahan put together 3 or 4 strong starts in a row before I'll believe he's returned to real prospect status.

WWSH

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-18 15:10:37
101.   herman
Guzman=Billy Ashley
2006-06-18 15:13:42
102.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 99

CanuckDodger--the big Loney defender here, and one of the prospect mavens, although Nate posts a lot more.

Re: 101

I'm not going to give up on Guzman after one cup of coffee in the majors at 21.

WWSH

2006-06-18 15:13:57
103.   herman
Kemp is going to see a lot of curve balls away this year.
2006-06-18 15:14:48
104.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
BTW, I'm a still little skeptical of Loney, but I do think he'll be adequate at 1B. The whole question is cost, and whether or not the 10 mil is better spent on a starter, as opposed to a very brittle Nomah (who's one of my favorite players on this year's team).

WWSH

2006-06-18 15:16:29
105.   herman
WWSH- Guzman's minor league number haven't impressed me. Lack of patients at the plate will be his down fall. We should trade him when his stock is high. He is FOOLS GOLD. Physically impressive, but that's about it.
2006-06-18 15:18:34
106.   Vishal
[105] lack of patients might be a problem if guzman had gone to medical school :)
2006-06-18 15:19:07
107.   das411
So...nobody is gonna mention that Mr. Vin actually sort of did jinx that perfect game?

103 - But can he hit them off of the ground like Vlad used to be able to?

2006-06-18 15:21:46
108.   Vishal
what perfect game?
2006-06-18 15:23:14
109.   MartinBillingsley31
The dodgers can afford BOTH nomar and a starting pitcher (zito).
2006-06-18 15:24:37
110.   Gen3Blue
106 yuk-yuk
Wayne - thanks
Guzman is a bit of a mystery. But seeing him at third made me appreciate him more.
He has time, he's young.

I'm already getting mellow about losing like I finally did last year. I'm not sure this is good

2006-06-18 15:26:17
111.   JoeyP
A not unexpected sweep.
Tough to win a series against a good team when Tomko/Sele are 2 of the starters.

Maybe OP earned his way back into the rotation though. This is two straight bad starts by Sele against below average offenses.

2006-06-18 15:32:02
112.   Gen3Blue
A DT comment low caused by Sunday afternoon/poor D's play.

But take heart--Mariners sweep Giants on Bonds strikeout, one of several today.

2006-06-18 15:37:23
113.   Greg Brock
112 Dodger Thoughts game thread defeated by the US/Italia thread over at the Griddle. I am in shock.
2006-06-18 15:42:45
114.   Linkmeister
113 It's a sign!

Next week, MLS Soccer!

2006-06-18 15:49:07
115.   Bob Timmermann
I think Father's Day kept the visits at a minimum.
2006-06-18 15:52:24
116.   Uncle Miltie
Perez will probably go back in the rotation, but I think I'd give Sele one more start to straighten things out. He isn't giving up home runs, which is a positive. Perez looked good. His changeup was working and he got his fastball up to 89. I've always thought that Odalis would be a better pitcher in the AL because of his changeup. He made Eric Chavez look really bad.

Carl Crawford is really starting to develop his power stroke. He now has 10 home runs and 22 steals. We don't have anyone blocking LF......

Still, I'd rather see Ned go after some cheap pitching (Weaver) than give up a bunch of prospects for a rental. It looks like it would take Guzman, Billingsley, Broxton and another prospect to acquire Crawford. That's too much.

How about something like this:
Kent and Brett Tomko for Jeff Weaver, Scot Shields, and a lower level pitching prospect

The Angels are one team that may be willing to take on Kent's contract, we can dump Tomko, and get a great reliever in Shields.

2006-06-18 16:12:57
117.   ToyCannon
They have no need for Kent or Tomko and no way the Angels trade Shields, he is the glue of that staff even if he is just a setup guy. They are trying to find space for Kendrick who could outhit Kent today without paying him 10 mill. With McPherson performing the needs of the Angels have changed.

I also don't think they would trade Weaver to us. The local media would go crazy with the idea that they signed him, gave away two prospects, spent 9 million on him, ate 1/2 his contract and gave him back to the team that got the draft picks.

Checking out the Vegas/SLC game and the debut of Hanrahan for Vegas it is quite a game. The Vegas Dodgers are able to solve Jered Weaver while the entire AL was unable to do so. At least Loney and D White were as they got 5 hits between them with a home run a piece. Hanrahan goes 6 solid innings with 7 k's and 2 walks before Wunsh comes in and implodes.

2006-06-18 16:17:03
118.   Bob Timmermann
Then there's that whole thing about the Dodgers and Angels not making trades with each other.

I believe they've only done it twice and once was in 1973 when O'Malley wanted to get rid of the players who voted against going on strike (I'm looking at you Frank Robinson!).

There was also a trade for catcher Ellie Rodriguez later in the 1970s.

The Dodgers and Giants make more trades with each other.

2006-06-18 16:26:35
119.   scareduck
117 - I had forgotten the draft choice angle; that's important. I'd have to believe that the Angels would want a mid-level prospect or two, maybe someone at AA (though the way the Suns have been performing this year, you'd think they had the next World Series champs goin through there).

Jered Weaver's implosion in his first game back from the Show doesn't entirely surprise me; one of the knocks against his brother is that he was unable to deal with pressure. I'll give Jered another month to straighten out, but it's a very bad sign.

118 - the Messersmith trade aside, the Angels also swiped Bill Bean (the gay one) from the Dodgers in the '91 minor league draft. Didn't work out, though.

2006-06-18 16:29:51
120.   JoeyP
I'm not sure why the Angels dont keep Jered Weaver up. They arent going anywhere this year. Might as well pitch him and get him experience.

The A's are on a run and still havent had most of their guys healthy yet. I dont think the AL West will be very close this year. Not sure if Texas will hang in, and Seattle/Angels have no shot.

2006-06-18 16:35:58
121.   DXMachina
116 He isn't giving up home runs, which is a positive.

The main thing I've liked about Sele is that he's one of the few guys on the staff who doesn't seem to lose his concentration when things go wrong. He hasn't got much talent, but he's been able to work out of a lot of the jams he's gotten into. Contrast that with Lowe, who can't have Aybar at third because if Willy boots one, Lowe's next pitch is likely to reach the wall on one hop.

2006-06-18 16:39:52
122.   Midwest Blue
As we all know now, Phill Mickelson choked at the US Open today and let Geoff Ogilvey win it.

From about 10:00pm last night:

"28. Midwest Blue
For me, Duval is surprising but Tiger was not. Ferrie won't last. It's Phil's to lose, and he's done that before.

I'm thinking Ogilvey or Harrington if Phil chokes."

2006-06-18 16:41:02
123.   Gen3Blue
116 Unc. now if something like that would work I would agree completly.
2006-06-18 16:43:59
124.   scooplew
118 -- I believe that the Dodgers and Giants have made only two trades with each other since both teams moved to the West Coast for the 1958 season. In February 1968, the Dodgers sent Ron Hunt and Nate Oliver to the Giants for Tom Haller and minor leaguer Frank Kasheta. In December 1985, the Dodgers traded Candy Maldonado to the Giants for Alex Trevino. Oliver spent most of his career (1963-1967) as a back-up middle infielder with the Dodgers. I recall once on a post-game show, he was complimented for being a solid utilityman. He responded that "futilityman" was more like it. He never played in more than 99 games in any season and had a career batting average of .226.
2006-06-18 16:45:46
125.   Gen3Blue
121 I know sort of what you mean, but we seem to have these stretches where most of our pitchers simultaneously fall apart the minute the get two men on base. Sele was better than that this afternoon, but not good enough to win without offense.( which many of the great dodger pitchers of the past could do)
2006-06-18 16:51:10
126.   Gen3Blue
So many D's and G's have played for both teams its hard to believe they haven't had more than two direct trades. But I guess it's possible.
2006-06-18 16:53:16
127.   JoeyP
I dont really consider Phil Mickelson choking. He just made bad decisions down the stretch, but thats how he always plays. He hit 2/14 fairways, but still would not change his approach. He kept firing away with the driver, and eventually it caught up to him.

I think Montgomery actually 'choked'. He was in perfect position to win, and just died out there on the final approach.

With Mickelson, its just his own stubbornness and bravado that lost him the Open.

2006-06-18 16:56:15
128.   JoeyP
In a way though, its an admirable quality about Mickelson. He never stops playing the golf course. He's trying to beat the course, not his opponents.

Thats the first thing they teach you when you pick up a club. That you're playing the course, not the man.

So that might be a reason why Mickelson never holds back. He'd rather beat the course than beat his opponents.

2006-06-18 16:57:50
129.   Marty
The 18th was classic Phil. All he had to do was dial it down and hit it straight with an iron, but that's not his game. I'm guessing in the post match interviews he says he'd play it the same way if he had a chance. Monty I feel for. That was probably his last legitimate chance at a major. He's 43-44 and there aren't many players that age winning majors.
2006-06-18 16:59:43
130.   DXMachina
127 With Mickelson, its just his own stubbornness and bravado that lost him the Open.

I wonder if he's ever seen Tin Cup.

2006-06-18 17:04:07
131.   Marty
Unfortunately, I think Phil did choke. If hitting it sideways when you have the Open in your hands isn't choking I don't know what is. Brain cramps when making shot decisions is choking too. I love Phil as a player, but that was the worst collapse in as major since Van de Val in the British and one of the worst ever.
2006-06-18 17:04:31
132.   scooplew
124 -- Minor correction to my recent posting. Nate Oliver played with the Dodgers from 1963 through 1967, with the Giants in 1968, and with the Yankees and Cubs in 1969.
2006-06-18 17:05:35
133.   Uncle Miltie
Finally some non-soccer talk!

Golf > Soccer

2006-06-18 17:12:19
134.   Bob Timmermann
Mickelson should have been given a red card.
2006-06-18 17:26:03
135.   Blu2
133 Anything > Soccer
2006-06-18 17:29:31
136.   Bluebleeder87
hey Bob so your gonna go to the game right?
2006-06-18 17:36:56
137.   Sam DC
Holy Guacamole - last I saw, Michelson was up 2 strokes on like the 16th and I went to put kids to bed. Til I read this thread, I just assumed he'd won it. Amazing.
2006-06-18 17:38:33
138.   Sam DC
The AP summary of the Nationals game reports that Ryan Zimmerman's walkoff HR tonight was the first gamewinning walk-off hit of his baseball career -- at any level.
2006-06-18 17:45:46
139.   Uncle Miltie
135- watching soccer is better than watching ice skating.

I used to play soccer and I still sometimes play, but I can't stand watching it.

2006-06-18 17:52:07
140.   ToyCannon
Good to know my softball career had eclipsed Ryan Zimmermans until today.

Joey as usual I'll disagre with you and this time about the Angels. While the A's will not have Harden for quite a while, the Angels just received back their staff ace. The rotation goes 5 deep with the front 4 as strong as anyone in baseball. The A's are a streaky team and right now they are on a great streak. Just 10 games ago they were in the same boat as the Angels. Stoneman will make a deal and the one I'd do is the one that has been bandied about forever and that is Kennedy for Hillenbrand. Bring up Kendrick install Hillenbrand at 1st base and you've done a nice upgrade to the offense compared to what they are getting from 1st and 2nd right now. I'd wait one month before making a pitching deal cause I suspect quite a few teams will become desperate and the Angels are the only team who can either trade an up and coming youngster like Santana for some big help or dump a contract like Weaver to make room for his brother and still come out a head. Course if Vlady goes down all bets are off.

2006-06-18 17:52:19
141.   Bob Timmermann
136

Yes, but I find your enthusiasm for my appearance to be somewhat like Trekkie-like.

2006-06-18 18:08:40
142.   Andrew Shimmin
Watching the CBS local news report about playing catch on the field at Dodger Stadium, I didn't see one ball caught.
2006-06-18 18:20:46
143.   Andrew Shimmin
Let's all list our top ten favorite Bob comments. Ooh, ooh, and, which do you like better, Griddle Bob, or Bob Original.
2006-06-18 18:42:49
144.   Nagman
Watching Sunday Night Baseball... was surprised to hear Smoltz himself say that the door to being traded "is no longer closed" and he has to be realistic about it.

I haven't heard his name mentioned here as far as possible acquisitions, any thoughts on that?

2006-06-18 18:44:13
145.   Gen3Blue
Watching soccer is better than watching poker.
But then again--_____________ is better than watching poker(fill in the blank)
2006-06-18 18:47:48
146.   Linkmeister
144 I'd take either starter in this Sunday Night game in a New York minute.

145 paint dry. Grass grow. Leaves fall (even if I gotta rake 'em).

I expounded upon televised poker here:
http://tinyurl.com/kyc6q

2006-06-18 18:53:59
147.   Gen3Blue
146 Well put. Watching is insane.
Even playing. There are plenty of ways to take similar risk without being bored to death.
2006-06-18 19:05:13
148.   Moon Shot
Went to the game in Oakland today and came away thinking three things:

1)Perez looked much better than Sele

2)It looked like Cruz should have been able to get to the two bloopers down the right field line, but didn't make much of an effort on either.

3)I think if you saw Kemp in a suit and tie in a pew on Sunday your first reaction would be "What an athlete!" During the warm-ups he just stood out among all the athletes on the field.

2006-06-18 19:06:24
149.   Greg Brock
141 I believe they prefer the term "Trekker" now. There is a great Trekkie/Trekker schism, which resulted in the election of two separate popes in the twelfth century. For more information, see Wikipedia.
2006-06-18 19:07:55
150.   Vishal
[148] and he wasn't even on the "athletic" team!
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-06-18 19:07:55
151.   Greg Brock
143 It's the effigy district. Gotta be the effigy district.
2006-06-18 19:29:17
152.   Andrew Shimmin
Looks like Trekker redirects to Trekkie, on wikipedia. And that the trekkies and trekkers don't think much of each other: "The term 'Trekkie' is sometimes considered derogatory, perhaps because of a perceived parallel to the term 'groupie'[sic]. Some Star Trek enthusiasts prefer the term "Trekker", while some others hold the latter term to be stupid or pretentious, and, for that reason, self-identify as 'Trekkies'[sic]."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trekkie

2006-06-18 19:33:15
153.   das411
144 - Hmm, possibly because the Tigers are actually in contention and the Bravos are not?
2006-06-18 19:34:16
154.   JoeyP
According to DodgerNotes, Clayton Kershaw signed for 3.2 mils bonus.
2006-06-18 19:39:52
155.   Steve
If we were to a do a Best of Bob list, it would have to be like one of those Top 100 shows on Bravo, but we would do it better, and not do the equivalent of putting Legally Blonde in our Top 20 comedies of all time.
2006-06-18 19:55:09
156.   Underbruin
155 - And who would be the "star" guests that come on to discuss Bob? They always seem to have these wish-we-were-famous-enough-to-become-has-beens doing the stunningly unfunny commentary (for the most part).

I nominate somebody go find Daryl Strawberry and Terry Mulholland. Bob'd love that, I'm sure.

2006-06-18 20:03:05
157.   Steve
Frank Robinson comes on and says "Bob has SWAGGER."

Bill Plaschke comes on and says "Bob has the heart and soul of a champion"

2006-06-18 20:08:42
158.   Sam DC
Then Kevin Malone comes on and says "There's a new Sheriff in town, and his name is Bob Timmermann."
2006-06-18 20:12:32
159.   Greg Brock
156 Kato Kaelin, Gary Coleman, Charro, and Vanilla Ice. You can get those guys to show up for anything. I would prefer Kal Daniels and Ken Landreaux.
2006-06-18 20:17:57
160.   Bob Timmermann
It was Russ Ortiz I hated, not Terry Mulholland.

You should get Kirk Rueter to show up. He sort of looks like me and he's got time on his hands.

2006-06-18 20:20:13
161.   Bob Timmermann
The Braves are in last place. They were in last place before the game started, but there will be no doubt about it now.

Rudy Seanez is in line to pick up a win despite retiring one batter and giving up a home run to the other.

2006-06-18 20:22:55
162.   Bob Timmermann
Buried at the end of the Dodgers game story from the AP is the note that Steve Karsay retired after the game.

At least he went out a winner.

2006-06-18 20:44:21
163.   Greg Brock
I paid two dollars for a Steve Karsay Fleer Rookie card in 1991. I have not, as of yet, forgiven him, and am surprisingly pleased by his retirement. Good luck Steve, and I want my money back.
2006-06-18 21:17:30
164.   Steve
Geez, Karsay was avoiding the strike zone like Damian avoids church.
2006-06-18 21:39:55
165.   Uncle Miltie
Not that I need to say it again, but the NBA Finals are rigged
2006-06-18 21:59:02
166.   bill cox
Uncle Miltie,hate to be pickin' with you(after all ,it's Father's day,maybe one of your kids bought you a bottle of maddog for the occasion)
Answer me this,Why would the Angels want Tomko?
Why would we want Weaver?
Why would the Dodgers want to trade Kent now with the offense struggling a little?
Why would it take Billingsley,Broxton,Guzman and another prospect to get Crawford?Miguel Cabrera maybe ,but not Crawford.What GM in his right mind would gut the farm system for one player?
Just a few questions.
2006-06-18 22:00:33
167.   Greg Brock
Bill Cox comes out of nowhere to drop the hammer on fan favorite Uncle Miltie.
2006-06-18 22:05:12
168.   natepurcell
even though dodgers.com said kershaw signed for 3.2 mil, i think its a misprint. 2.3 mil is slot money for the 7th pick. I just think Gurnick is dyslexic.
2006-06-18 22:06:05
169.   Steve
Jered Weaver? I'll take him. They're not using him.
2006-06-18 22:06:34
170.   natepurcell
players miltie dislikes:

Kent
ethier
loney

players miltie likes:
aybar
crawford
oh, dallas

2006-06-18 22:07:26
171.   natepurcell
I hope everyone had a nice Father's day. I was kicking my dad's ass in our round of golf until I lost interest and tried hitting the ducks and giant toads in the pond instead of the fairways.
2006-06-18 22:12:32
172.   Greg Brock
Glad you had a nice Father's Day Nate. You missed an all-time low DT game thread participation. But Herman was here, so there you go.
2006-06-18 22:15:13
173.   natepurcell
172

Yea I just read through it. It seems Herman had fun. Too bad I missed him. Maybe the next game right?

2006-06-18 22:20:28
174.   Steve
Miltie's fascination with FTOGS is most consternating.
2006-06-18 22:22:20
175.   Louis in SF
I went to the 17 inning marathon, and sadly saw one of the best pitching efforts by a Dodger go down the drain. It was a game in addition to the melt down in the 17th, where the Dodgers blew way too many opportunites to win it earlier on. While many will take away from this series the sweep, if the Dodgers are going to go forward they need another starting pitcher to step up. Both the Tomko game on Friday and the Sele game today are harbingers of a bad moon rising. I hope OP can step up and do believe that Seo does have some value, but not sure if he is all the way back. He defiitely had more velocity on the ball, but couldn;t locate it.
2006-06-18 22:23:00
176.   Steve
I had no idea that Nomar used up one of his last two homeruns today. It's going to be a long year.
2006-06-18 22:27:23
177.   Jon Weisman
176 - Can he borrow from future years? That seems fair, plausible and in line with the way many of us live our lives?
2006-06-18 22:29:35
178.   Greg Brock
I gave up trying to talk Uncle Miltie from the Odalis ledge about a week and a half ago. It's just one of those things, like Lyle Lovett/Julia Roberts. You just kinda scratch your head and say, "Okay."
2006-06-18 22:34:09
179.   Bob Timmermann
Don't go arounnd tonight. It's bound to take your life. There's a bad moon on the rise.
2006-06-18 22:41:19
180.   Greg Brock
Soccer quote of the day goes to the Irish oracle Tommy Michael Smyth, pride of Knockbridge..."Every team should have a Fred."
2006-06-18 22:52:44
181.   Uncle Miltie
I am so pissed off with the NBA right now. Stern must be doing his little victory dance, now that Wade (the league's answer to the next Jordan) is one win away from winning the NBA title.

Now I'll address the questions.

Answer me this,Why would the Angels want Tomko?
I don�t think they would, but they do want to dump Weaver and they also get to add a big bat in Kent. Kent would automatically become their 2nd best hitter. Kent has the versatility of being able to play 2B, 1B, and DH. He could give Vlad some legitimate protection. Taking Tomko (or another bad contract) is what they would have to do in order to acquire Weaver.
Why would we want Weaver?
Weaver has proven to be an average pitcher throughout his career. Since Billingsley has made only 1 start in the majors, Weaver would become the 3rd best pitcher in our pathetic starting rotation. Weaver actually strikes out guys, and unlike Tomko/Seo/Perez, he can go deep into games.
Why would the Dodgers want to trade Kent now with the offense struggling a little?
The reason I want the Dodgers to trade Kent is because I�m terrified of having a 40 year old 2B making $11.5 million on the roster next year. Aybar can be moved over to 2B and the Dodgers can use that money on another starter (Zito) and a power hitting 1B/LF (not a longterm contract)
(Why would it take Billingsley,Broxton,Guzman and another prospect to get* Crawford?Miguel Cabrera maybe ,but not Crawford.What GM in his right mind would gut the farm system for one player?
Just a few questions.
I would never do that trade, but that�s what the D-rays seem to be asking for Crawford. That would be insane for the Dodgers to make that trade. Miguel Cabrera won�t be available. I expect Crawford to stay with the Devil Rays and maybe they�ll explore trade options in the offseason

players miltie dislikes:
Kent- Absolutely. I don�t dislike Kent, I hate him
ethier- not at all. I like Ethier, I just don�t see him as a starting corner outfielder. He can be a very valuable part time player. I�d like to see him spend some more time in the minors
loney- don�t dislike him either. I�m not a big Loney fan because he hasn�t done much in the minors to warrant all the hype. If pans out and becomes the next John Olerud, I�ll be ecstatic
players miltie likes:
aybar- yup
crawford- yes, I have a serious mancrush on Crawford, but with what the D-rays are currently demanding, I�d pass on him right now
oh, dallas- I don�t like Odalis, I just don�t dislike him like almost everyone else here. I believe that he is capable of being a useful pitcher and he has a proven track record. Players usually don�t completely collapse at age 29. I�m willing to give Odalis a chance. He�s done more in his career than Tomko, Seo or any of the other options.

2006-06-18 22:55:42
182.   Greg Brock
Award for most random use of foreign letters and fractions goes to...You guessed it...Uncle Miltie.
2006-06-18 23:05:13
183.   ToyCannon
I think you all forgot the player that Miltie has the biggest crush on and that is Bossman who not only gets DUI's but lots of other tickets as well. Soon he will need a chauffer and to be honest I don't understand why every ballplayer doesn't have one. He may be in the minor leagues but the man earned a multi-million bonus before he was 18. He should hire one of those AAA lifers who is trying to get by on a minor league salary with 3 kids at the age of 28. I'm sure he could use the extra dough. I am just behind Miltie in my admiration for the Bossman's talent and since Miltie hit a home run with Brandon Philips maybe he knows talent when he see's it.

Beltre is coming to town

Courtesy of Rotowire:
Adrian Beltre (3B) SEA 6/18/2006
Beltre homered and doubled in a run for just his sixth multi-RBI game this season, but fourth since moving to No. 2 in the order. Batting second is working for Beltre. Since moving to No. 2 18 games ago, Beltre has four homers and five doubles and is slugging .500 with a .282 average. In 52 games prior to the move, he had six doubles and two homers.

Maybe we should have a parade.

2006-06-18 23:56:42
184.   Vishal
nate was right; the mlb.com story now says kershaw signed for $2.3 million.
2006-06-19 06:59:05
185.   Sam DC
Mike Wilbon has a thoughtful piece on the Post today about the death of Len Bias, including quotes from Magic, Danny Ainge, and others.

http://tinyurl.com/pargj

2006-06-19 07:32:03
186.   thinkingblue
The reason I want the Dodgers to trade Kent is because I�m terrified of having a 40 year old 2B making $11.5 million on the roster next year. Aybar can be moved over to 2B and the Dodgers can use that money on another starter (Zito) and a power hitting 1B/LF (not a longterm contract

Kent is still one of the best offensive second basemen in the game, and it would really be stupid to trade him for Jeff Weaver. I mean, do you want Ramon Martinez playing everyday?

Listen, as much as you like Willy Aybar, he's probably another Placido Polanco at best. Not a lot of power, not much base stealing skills, sometimes hits for average, and can play multiple positions. He is by no means, an everday ball player.

Also, why do we need to aquire an OF/1B? Next year, if we resign Nomar, I like an outfield of Ethier/Kemp/Drew, who can all hit a good number of HRs.

2006-06-19 08:12:58
187.   Sam DC
For Rob, from nationals.com saturday notes column: "One player the Nationals really like, for example, is Angels second baseman Howie Kendrick. Bowden tried to get him during the Winter Meetings last December, but the Angels wouldn't budge."
2006-06-19 08:46:42
188.   Blu2
I think most of us here are satisfied with Nomar's hitting this year but also most of us don't think we should sign him for 3 years at $10 mill, and that's what it would take to re-sign him. So what's the big slam on Loney's lack of home runs? A. He's only 21 so the power may develop, and B. I think most of us would be satisfied to pay him the usual rookie rate for a .300 plus average for several years. And if Guzman turns into a monster first baseman and threatens to replace Loney, well, it's all good. Get a good pitcher next year, weed out the deadwood on our roster. We have most of the parts for a really good team.
2006-06-19 11:54:57
189.   Dodger Tony
I was quite pleased with the performance of the bullpen this weekend. With the exception of the Seo meltdown in game 2 (with the help of the umpires) the pen was sterling. Even Seo was excellent on Friday night for one inning. I think that this is a very good sign. I'm still not entirely convinced Gagne is done.
As far as the starting staff goes, lets see how Tomko fares this week. I watched the first game against the A's again on Tivo and he absolutely had respectable stuff. But over and over again he made horrendous pitches with two strikes on the hitters. It was flabergasting how many times he served up a pie over the plate. His lack of an out pitch seems to be the current problem. If he can straighten that out, which is not improbable, then we get right back into a decent staff. Remember, this staff was the best in baseball for a touch there and I for one am not ready to toss it all off. I think they may straighten this out.

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