I was about to read the Gagne column when I stumbled on this at SI.com:

"A National League source said the Dodgers approached the Marlins within the past week with a package of highly-regarded prospects and big-league ready players. According to the source, Florida said Dontrelle Willis wasn't available. -- MLB.com"

The only way I see Gagne in a Dodger uniform next year is if he signs a one year deal on the cheap to showcase that he is healthy so he can sign a longer term deal. The type of contract Nomar signed but for less money.
Gagne may still have something left but he will never be as dominate as he was.

1-

it really wouldn't shock me at all to see Guzman be the centerpiece in a deal for Willis.

Although, it'd be MUCH nicer to nab Willis AND Cabrera :)

I don't understand why the Marlins refuse to trade the guy...he really isn't THAT good, and it's not as if they're going to spend the cash to keep him in the future. In fact, I hope the only way we get him is if we don't give up any guys like Bills, Guzman, Dewitt, Laroche etc.

hijacking the thread - back to the weather. it's raining here in mpls, but it doesn't matter, thanks to the hubert h humphrey dome!

forgot to mention in my comments about the sat night twinks/cubs that a few beachballs made what i believe to be their first appearance at the dome. it was interesting to watch the uninitiated stumble over each other trying to keep the balls away from the ushers.

sure would have been nice to have had the possibility of a gagne sighting this series, but it will still be good to see billingsley tonight. as long as he isn't traded to the marlins prior to gametime...

3. I say that about Willis everytime I have the chance to draft him in a fantasy league. I always worry about his ability to endure the innings he pitches... people had the same worries about Pedro Martinez. Not saying they are alike, but, well I think he'd be better than the last 3 in the rotation.

Lastest Pirates Q&A with the easy-to-read Dejan Kovacevic:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06177/701309-63.stm

3 Well that's my problem- he isn't that good. Granted his 4.08 ERA is a bit deceiving since nearly half of his ER came in a 3-game skid in May. If you look closer Willis is essentially Derek Lowe. 5 K/9, pitches deep in games, rubber arm. I suppose he'd make a nice #3 but at what price.

5-

yeah, he'd be better than the last three in the rotation, but is that saying much? I've never had a problem with his ability to endure innings pitched, I have a problem with the fact that he simply isn't all that good. He's REALLY not worth giving up top prospects for...I just have a feeling Flanders is going to overpay for Willis because he's really the only decent starter on the market.

6
There is plenty enough evidence that a good number of these players are giving their all, but, to be blunt, I see little of that happening at a team level. Obviously, one of the manager's chief responsibilities is to ensure that the latter is happening.

What does that mean? Is what happens at the "team level" different from the sum of what happens at the individual player level?

9 - I think he's saying that maybe not everyone is giving their best. Whether that's true, I don't know, but I think the implication is "a good number of players" is not everyone.

meanwhile, papelbon blows a save in boston...

11 On a homer off the foul pole!

8 - is it overpaying if he's the best on the market, though? i mean, if you have a giant need (a decent starter) and there's only one out there, how much is overpaying?

10
Is he implying that "Teams who are playing well have a higher percentage of players who are giving their best than teams that are playing poorly"? I'm not totally convinced that the Pirates' primary problem is that their players are not giving 100%. I think their primary problem is that they're not very good to start out with. Course, Tracy's managing makes a negative contribution, but would they really be a good team if they had a good manager (whatever a good manager is)?

I love these Pittsburg writers. They are able to see through Tracy.

The best ones
WHYGAVS: Was the reaction by the players (especially Bay and Jack Wilson)after yesterday's game in any part due to their frustration with the way Tracy publicly blames them while never looking in the mirror, or did they actually mean they thought the roster needs a shakeup?

Dejan Kovacevic: Yes on both counts. The players have made clear -- more as each day goes by -- that they do not appreciate the lack of accountability in the manager's office, and you might have noticed in this morning's paper that it has not escaped the owner's attention, either.

MeganAnn_sDad: Injuries aside, wouldn't it make more sense to give Ryan Doumit a legitimate shot at being the 1st baseman? He's younger, cheaper, and has more potential than Casey.

Dejan Kovacevic: There are a lot of variables in trying to teach Doumit, just as there in trying to wait for Brad Eldred. That is the main reason the Pirates apparently feel the sense of urgency to retain Sean Casey.

Benny86: Do you think Tracy will forced to shake-up his coaching staff in the near future?

Dejan Kovacevic: I think he would sooner throw himself before a moving vehicle.

11 Papelbon is the truth. I really like the cut of his jib. despite the foul pole.

is it overpaying if he's the best on the market, though?

it's overpaying no matter what. That's like giving up three top prospects for Craig Wilson and going "well, he's the best hitter ont he market." That makes absolutely no sense. You give up what you think a player is worth...if the Dbacks wanna give up their prospects for Willis then go right ahead....but I'll be pretty annoyed if we give up a package of really good prospects for an okay pitcher which is what Willis is.

Overpaying for Willis? In the current trade market, it's heck of a lot better than overpaying for Livan, Maddux, or anybody else out there. At least he's a (hold for the cringe) character guy and a proven star. And not to mention he is young and will be a great draw (not that the #1 drawing team needs help in that dept)

I am defending Willis, but I still believe we won't be getting him. He won't be traded. That team is going to good to trade him...or Cabrera.

someone please explain to me why everyone think s Willis is worth giving up top prospects for...please. The guy is 4-7 with a 4.05 ERA and a 1.39 whip with a K/bb ratio that is under 2.00.

He dominated last year, but the year before was VERY similar to his numbers this year. I'm more inclined to think Willis is the guy who's pitching right now and not the guy who pitched last year. I'm just not willing to give up a package of our farm system for a guy with a 4 ERA.

From another Dejan article about the Bucs' 10th consecutive loss on Saturday:

Asked if he might make moves within the starting lineup or batting order simply to shake things up, manager Jim Tracy replied, "For me to answer that question, ask yourself what you would shake up. If I had a number of options, that's something I would comment on."

Brilliant. Simply brilliant.

21-

I'm so glad all of this stuff is finally coming to light for others. I'm gonna sound really harsh here, but Tracy really seems like a scumbag. Take some responsibility for your team. When he started throwing our players under the bus last year was when I'd officially had enough of the guy...I hope the Bucs have the guts to ante up and just get rid of him....

I'm gonna sound really harsh here, but Tracy really seems like a scumbag.

It's OK: you're among friends.

14 - "I'm not totally convinced that the Pirates' primary problem is that their players are not giving 100%. I think their primary problem is that they're not very good to start out with. "

I don't think me, Dejan or anyone else is disagreeing with you about their primary problem. He was just answering the question he was asked, right?

20 it was eluded to earlier that the bulk of Willis' ERA is aresult of his skid last month. Which many have attributed to WBC fatigue. His W/L can't even be a measure of his success, because he plays for the Marlins. They are hot now but weren't previously. Furthermore, Willis gave up ONE run to the Yankees in his last start in the bronx and lost. He's got it going now and he's young and he's a lefty and he's the best possible addition we can make to our staff in the next year and a half. The free agent market sucks this year and we're tapped out in the farm system for arms.

Several comments -

1. I'm really sorry I missed the DT outing on Friday. Looked like a blast, but my daughter wasn't feeling well, along with other complications in my weekend plans. I hope this won't be the last time.

2. Tracy is nuts. Was he always this nuts? Someone other than Steve?

3. The fact that LaRoche is not having surgery AND is throwing and hitting already is quite vexing. Can we just play it safe for one time?

There's an outfielder for everyone's taste today, thanks to Drew DH-ing.

24
I suppose so. But I'm still left to question the implication that Tracy is doing a relatively bad job (in comparison to other managers) of getting his players to give 100%.

and one other thing -

4. My opinion on a prospects for Willis trade depends entirely on which prospects. I don't see any reason to go into it more than that, except to say that I'm not completely against the idea.

Willis would be a nice addition, as long as we do not have to trade any of the youngsters on the major league roster. If Florida wants Joel Guzman, they would have them. I do not want to see Kemp, Billingsley, Either, or Martin dealt.

Since Chad Billingsley is pitching tonite, here's a stat of the day (Not being negative just reporting whats happened so far):

Billingsley's pitches: 195
Opponent swing and misses: 4

30 Aybar, Kuo, Broxton, Loney, Navarro?

31 Interesting statistic.... That would help explain why he throws so many pitches in so few innings.

32 I would give them Aybar, Kuo or Broxton, and Loney or Navarro.

If they want both Loney and Navarro, I would ask for one of their young arms in return. How about Petit or Alvarez, now I am dreaming.

Shoot, keep Willis, give us Petit or Alvarez and we can have a true youth movememnt in Los Angeles.

it was eluded to earlier that the bulk of Willis' ERA is aresult of his skid last month

see, everyone likes to use selective stats like this and that's simply not valid. The bottom line is that we're about halfway through the season and the guy has an ERA of 4. I don't care where he pitched, those are his numbers.

Willis gave up ONE run to the Yankees in his last start in the bronx and lost.

he gave up two. But I still don't understand the point of using that. I could easily point out that he gave up six runs in his last start against the Cardinals.

He's got it going now and he's young and he's a lefty and he's the best possible addition we can make to our staff in the next year and a half. The free agent market sucks this year and we're tapped out in the farm system for arms.

really? Last I checked the free agent market was going to have guys like Zito and Schmidt. I just for the life of me can't understand why people say stuff like "he's the best possible addition."...so what!? That doesn't mean that he's worth giving up a lot of talent for. I mean, if Craig Wilson was the only bat on the market would you advocate getting him because he's the "best possible addition"? No...and while this team DOES need starting pitching help, getting a guy with a 4 ERA for our top talent would be a very, VERY bad baseball move.

We can use all the selective stats we want, and make up all the excuses we want...but the bottom line is that Willis has put up one good year in three, and besides that one the other two are basically average years. Willis is an average pitcher.

I love you Das, that Journey video in the last thread makes my day since i have to go to work and can't see Chad pitch.

21
I think the guy is in the wrong business, with those answers Tracy ought to be in politics, hopefully a long way from here. Always beating around the bush!!!

35 replace Alvarez with Anibal Sanchez. I am not sure where I got Alvarez from, I am getting old.

35 - You said I am more inclined to think that Willis is the guy who is pitching right now. Well the guy who is pitching right now is the guy who just went into Yankee stadium. I do care where he pitched. Pitching well in Yankee stadium is definately better than pitching well in PNC Park or Petco. It's not selective to answer the question with the most current data. And furthermore, don't beg the question if you don't actually want an answer. You're welcome. Zito and Schmidt are old and expensive and possibly not in our best interest. Livan and maddux are obviously bad (very bad) baseball decisions.

Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF
Garciaparra, 1B
Drew, DH
Kent, 2B
Ethier, LF
Kemp, RF
Izturis, 3B
Martin, C
Billingsley, P

35 - I am also completly willing to admit there were indeed two runs. That was my mistake. 3-1 in his last five starts. The pitcher he is right now.

"Pitching well in Yankee stadium is definately better than pitching well in PNC Park or Petco."

Well, maybe, but the Dodgers don't play in Yankee Stadium more than once every three or four years. They play a lot of games at PNC and Petco. I'd rather have a pitcher who pitched well in stadia where the team goes regularly.

All right. Imagine that lineup with Martin in the two hole, Lofton batting 8th, and Izturis 9th. Better, right?

Also, it seems like Kemp and Ethier should be flip-flopped.

But what do I know? I haven't played an inning of organized baseball since 1981.

Someone other than Steve?

[kicks can, puts hands in pockets, drops head, exits stage left to tune of sad Peanuts music]

43 - The lineup as is has no back-to-back righties or lefties.

SLRLRLRSR

I do think that keeping Martin at the bottom is as close as Little comes to Tracy-like stubbornness, but I'm not losing sleep over it right now.

As one-sided as everyone seems to make the Martin over Lofton in the 2-hole debate, here's the important stat:

Lofton - .372 OBP
Martin - .379 OBP

Frankly I'd rather have Martin's RBI ability lower in the line-up since there's still a viable on-base option like Lofton to plug into the 2-hole.

Which isn't to say I don't think Martin shouldn't be batting at least ahead of Izturis.

42 - I think you missed the point. I was pointing out that the players playing in Yankee stadium are better hitters than those hitting in PNC (ex: Arod vs Craig Wilson). And that Yankee stadium is a better hitting environment than Petco...etc. Plus there is an extra real hitter in AL parks obviously. That was my point.

45 - yeah, so long has he keeps having runners ahead of him to knock in.

[kicks can, puts hands in pockets, drops head, exits stage left to tune of sad Peanuts music]

"Christmas time is here, happiness and cheer..."

I've got no problem with Martin batting low in the order. The kid already has a loaded plate. He's a rookie catcher short on pro experience. He's catching a pretty difficult staff. His manager doesn't believe in resting him.
Asking a bit less of him as a hitter is a good thing.

45 SLRLRLRSR

I imagine that being said by a photography geek with a stutter.

I also don't have a problem with Martin batting 8th -- the lower half of the order is very capable of putting together a rally, and more often than not it's Martin coming up (and delivering) with runners on base. Not to mention, of course, that even with no runners on, his ability to get on base means we don't have the pitcher's spot leading off the next inning.

U know its bad when u talk about yourself in the third person and trade yourself. Salomon Torres of the Pirates...

"It might happen. And if that's what it's going to take for us to be a better team, for Salomon to go somewhere else ... I don't want to see this team suffer anymore. This is eating us alive. It's killing us. You know, I'm willing to leave my arm on that mound for my team. A lot of us have that feeling. But something's not clicking."

Nobody on our team should be hitting behind Izturis. Except maybe the pitcher.

From MLB.com:

"McClatchy said he still believes manager Jim Tracy, who has perpetually dwelled on the team's 7-21 record in one-run games as an indication of how close the Pirates are to contention, and general manager Dave Littlefield are the right men for the job."

The following is not about Tracy, but about one-run games.

If the Pirates split their one-run games, they'd be 33-44.

Even with 28 one-run games, second-most in the league, the team's run differential is second-worst in the league. (Better than the Cubs, at least!)

In 49 non-one-run games, the Pirates have a 19-30 record and have been outscored by 43 runs.

what happened to Penny yesterday? did he just get tired? Is he hurt? have been unable to hear any real news but some newscaster last night alluded to the possibility he mighht be hurting?

Any info would be appreciated.

57 I don't think it was anything out of the ordinary for Penny - too many full counts, too many fouls. He had thrown about 90-100 pitches by the 5th.

58

let's hope that's all it was it.

44

Steve: "Every Christmas it's the same. I always end up playing a shepherd."

I used to say "I got a rock" all the time.

Must win tonight:)

Twins have won 14 of 16 games and only gained 1 game on the Tigers and a 1 1/2 on the WS. How frustrating must that be? If a team in the West put together that kind of streak the Division race would be over.

Who knew that the AL Central would be the best in baseball in 2006 and that the Indians wouldn't be part of the strength.

62

Toy, your an awesome dude thanks for the support. :o)

This is the game thread.

61

Jon I'm kind of jealous of you because my chick said you had nice eyes.

Minnesota's strength is their dome-field advantage. Their streak started by salvaging the last game of a series in Seattle. They then had Baltimore at home and Boston at home, then visited Pittsburgh for some automatic wins. They did win 2 of 3 in Houston, which is an accomplishment for them, but probably had a lot to do with the fact that they were on a roll. They then went home and swept the Cubs.

I don't think the Twins are a very good team. But they are tough at home. This will be a difficult series for the Dodgers, and it would be a huge accomplishment if they were to take two games of it.

Silva 3-8, 6.87

that's Silva's record (Let's rock 'um!)

66

momentum goes along way. (let's see were the Dodgers momentum is)

Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF
Garciaparra, 1B
Drew, DH
Kent, 2B
Ethier, LF
Kemp, RF
Izturis, 3B
Martin, C
Billingsley, P

You know we're in an AL ball park right?

Also, typo in that article, Gagne won the CY Young in 2003.

EDIT: did't see the DH, and was thrown off when I saw Billinglsey's name.

I have no problem with Ethier hitting in front of Kemp, somebody on base if he hits a homer. And he'd better, or people are going to start thinking he's a mortal...

For some reason I like Kemp against Silva

66 It also helps that this is the non-incompetent version of the Twins. I said at the start of the season they would be good if they didn't pussyfoot around with veterans like they did in years past. In the beginning they did, starting Tony Batista over Michael Cuddyer, Lew Ford over Jason Kubel, Juan Castro over Jason Bartlett and Kyle Lohse instead of Fransico Liriano.

Now that the Twins stopped handicapping themselves, they should actually be a good team.

Fransisco Liriano saved my fantasy team. Anyway, this is the only game of the series the Dodgers should win. Liriano and Santana are deadly. Oh, and Billingsley is on my team now and I want the points for a win.

72 I like everyone against Silva.

Then again, his stats are skewed by a dreadful month of April (10.90 ERA). He's been pretty mediocre since then, posting ERA's in the mid 4's in May and June. He does give up a lot of homers (18 in 76 IP), so hopefully Kemp can lay off some breaking balls and bust out his whooping stick.

The AL Central is amazing. I have paid zero attention to Detroit. How are they doing it, with mirrors? Or are they legitimate?

Marty:
1) Check Detroit's pitchers
2) Check Detroit's records against teams not called the White Sox, Red Sox, and Yankees.

I saw The Da Vinci Code today. Not worth the matinee price of 6.75.

Hey, I reviewed that movie on the Griddle! I could have told you that!

78

you recomend Superman?

Can't say, I haven't seen it.

78 When I reviewed the book I said it wasn't worth the $7.99 I paid for that, either.

I caught Superman about a week ago...if you like super hero movies you'll like this...definitely worth seeing.

Has anyone watched the TV drama, "The Closer"? I see the show's star (Kyra Sedgwick) all over the place right now, in newspapers, magazines, etc. I haven't watched it before, but I'm thinking of checking it out tonight.

Luis Castillo's not that fast anymore, I don't think a pitchout is necessary.

84
I like "The Closer" although I was disappointed to see that Eric Gagne doesn't appear in it.

It has both quirky and conventional elements to it. Kyra Sedgwick's character is odd.

At least:

1) Silva is starting
2) The Padres are off tonight

Billingsley is gonna have to start getting people to swing and miss...bats are constantly on the ball.

DodgerSims has the Dodgers blowing out the Twins tonight and Billingsley pitching deeper into the game. The BlueCrew needs to win tonight as the Twins weakest link is pitching against them.
vr, Xei

So these swing and miss things count as strikes don't they?

86
Thanks for the review, Bob. "Quirky" is a word I've heard more than once with respect to the show. On one hand, I'm not all that excited about yet another hour-long crime drama. TV needs another of those like the Dodgers need another banjo-hitting shortstop. On the other hand, I am favorably disposed to Kyra Sedgwick (in what little exposure I've had to her). She doesn't bug me, which is rare for a "celebrity."

Wow, I just saw the game flash before my eyes.

close call

Let's score some runs

we're smoking the ball off Silva....

Did that DP give the boys in blue some momentum? Let's see what the golden boys can do about it...

Anyone of you DC readers want to pitch in on my ark? Denizen, Capdodger, Purple Hippo, anyone?

Jon-
Good article. One thing I noticed was that the word "former" was missing from your normal sig at the end of the article. Is this a sign, or an error?

I didn't realize Bills control was so bad, but he almost screwed himself with walks.
Looking back at his stats though, he is young and he walks alot. Add ML hitters and rookie jitters and he has a lot of baserunners. But we have few options that might be better, so let him learn here.

Eithier smokes it too....I'm smelling a Matt Kemp home run

Is DodgerSims related to former catcher Duke Sims?

Sam, I was considering building one yesterday, but I couldn't remember how many inches are in a cubit.

102 I'm reminded of an old Bill Cosby routine.

102 Ah, Cosby.

"What's a cubit?"

"Never mind that."

From the "Noah" routine.

103 Marty and I have the same album collection, I see.

one pitch one out....bills can use an easy inning here.

Sam, what do you want for a suite with a terrace? Or at least a porthole?

105 - I had every Cosby tape, I think. I knew that one cold.

98 - an error.

Seeing as Bills used 26 pitches in the first!

I wore the grooves off of that album.

thats the old-izturis we know.

1st pitch strike, take - fastball down the middle

2nd pitch curveball, down - pooey for contact.

108 - Bummer.

I've still got the album, along with a couple of the other early ones (1960s).

Oh dear, is Bills going to be another Penny?
Great pitcher, but about 7 pitches per batter.
Oh-- Bills is a bit wild.

Looking in my crystal ball, I see Odalis in the third...

This umpire sure isn't helping him out either, a lot of these pitches are really close.

WHo are these people who play for the Twins?

113 I haven't seen that album in Decades. To show my memory is not what it was, is it the same one with the "ice cream" and "medic" routines?

You sure Marty? I see him warming up in the second.

114
I think that Martin needs to do just what he did with Lowe, go to the mound and not leave til Bills calms down.

118 Hang on, I'll look.

A curse on you LNP. Having Punto get an RBI has got to feel the same as letting Grabowski get one over on you.

That was ugly.

The Metrodome is not an easy place for a young outfielder

Just a sec. The catcher trippled? WTH?

This inning has the stench of Ja(y)sons about it.

Billingsly's third outing and I've yet to see a good start.
First outing fair but nothing impressive so far.

How can they call that a triple? It was a lazy flyball to left.

125

(a) Ethier got a glove on it, but missed
(b) The catcher is Joe Mauer, who leads the majors in hitting

Bills really needs to start pounding the strike zone better, he's falling behind on everyone

Billingsly may have a great arm but he is nowhere near to being a pitcher. Send him back down and start trading...

To whom DOES Billz want to pitch?

It's just my opinion but, I really think Grady dons't trust Honeycutt.

A case where if the D's could have given Bills a solid lead, he would have just thrown strikes.

103, 104, etc. - "Right..."

131 - Trade for whom?

Marty, hard to tell from the track titles. It's the "Bill Cosby is a Very Funny Fellow Right!" album, live at the Bitter End.

Back to baseball: 50 pitches in an inning and two-thirds?

this is the first time I see Bills pitch, I'm kinda not impressed. But then again I'm not one to judge on first impressions

The Twins announcers try not to be homers, but they are so eager. I don't blame them, as this franchise consistently fields a good product for a small market team, but hasn't had that pile of luck yet, like the Marlins ie.

Terrible play by Ethier. He completely misjudged that flyball.

Billingsley needs to throw strikes. If he wants to be Ishii II then he can go back to the minors. Throwing strikes and getting hammered is better than walking people and getting hammered. You have no chance of getting an out when you walk someone.

137 Track list: http://tinyurl.com/j3w6l

137 - That's the one. We had them all when I was a kid.

I wonder if the D's wll go to Bills aid.

Looking at the album listings, it's not that one. Probably an earlier one I used to listen to. I'll try to find it on the web.

I'm thinking he was trying to throw strikes.

"Medic" is on the second album, "I Started out as a Child."

Cosby discography from All Music Guide:

http://tinyurl.com/pdsno

How many starting pitchers have the Dodgers produced the last 5-8 years who posted good walk numbers in the minors and actually looked like they had touch and feel when they got up to the majors?

It seems like they collect a bunch of throwers.

Bills looks alot like E. Jackson. He throws alot of pitches (mostly balls). Has a good fastball, but doesn't seem to be fooling anyone.

I see that the "medic" routine was on "I started out as a child". And "Tonsils", which I referred to as "ice cream" was on "Wonderfulness"

Bills looks alot like E. Jackson. He throws alot of pitches (mostly balls). Has a good fastball, but doesn't seem to be fooling anyone.

Bills seems to always be in trouble.

78

Superman is excellent. Although I am not impartial...

Furcal looks slow.

97 - People are sloshing along 16th Street--there's gotta be at least two inches on the sidewalk. Good thing I'm on the fifth floor.

I flew into Reagan last Thursday night/Friday morning from California and our pilot was dodging lighting strikes. We were the first plane to land in DC in 2.5 hours, so there were no taxis--just cranky, cranky people.

117 Basically guys from their system. If we had a small payroll we would prob. use Aybar, D. Young, And a few of our AAAA pitchers.
BTW Some of these ML outfits are so lame, don't you think a couple would trade for D. Young, Confusing him with Delman Young.

Spyco & Stein beeing humble about our catcher (our catcher has skills too guys!)

156 - Nah, they'd know it wasn't Delmon the first time Delwyn threw his bat.

What's up with Brett Myers. What a punk. I can't believe the phils allowed hin to pitch the next day. That is s@@@!! (and don't give me this innocent before prove guilty trash). There were plenty of witnesses.

The problem with Bills seems to be that he's nibbling too much early in the count. I don't know if he's a little nervous about coming in to major league hitters or if he was getting those same pitches called for strikes in the minors, but if he could just bring those pitches in a couple inches it would allow him to throw his curveball more.

wow did you guys see that call my Russell?

Now that's how you play outfield!

Bills seems to be afraid of contact. Let them hit the ball. He is trying to strike everyone out. NICE CATCH.

Hey! they just said something like our starters have the best ERA in the NL
Thank god for Kemp!

Send that ball to Cooperstown.

wow! did you see that catch by Kemp!!?

Bisonic web gem.

Great play by Kemp

Good job by Billingsley to throw strikes

150. Kemp can jump 50 feet in the air with ease.

What a great play by Kemp. I thinkm he comes up this inning too. Be nice to get a HR as well.

For us stuck with Gameday, what was Kemp's catch?

When was the last time Lofton made a catch like that?

155- The alley behind my apartment is a river now. Better break out the sandbags...

Castillo's leadoff single in the first. On Gameday, it says it went to shortstop. Should Furcal have made the play? Would Izzy have made it? I didn't see it.

I haven't done this for awhile, but tonight's menu is grilled chicken with a mustard-based marinade, wild rice and grilled asparagus. Along with a nice Italian Barbera from a Paso Robles vinyard.

171- It was Kirby Puckettian. He jumped in to the baggie and pulled down what would have been at least a double.

If Bills keeps us in the game will be o.k. IMO

176 Thanks.

So, there are still living people who underestimate Kenny Lofton's arm. Wouldn't have guessed that. . .

Punto is really scrappy. That play should pump up his teammates.

Lofton just showed off his cannon arm.

Bills curve is either beeing read or... there reading it so well!!

Keeping the gameday followers in mind, Punto tried to take two on his single to center. Lofton nailed him (on a throw of about twenty feet, it looked like) at second.

another izturis pop out.

Slappy McBanjo is quickly rounding into form.

having a lineup with furcal lofton AND izturis is a recipe for disaster...keep furcal, maybe even lofton...but izturis is going to kill our lineup if he's here for the whole season.

Small sample size and all that, but Izturis' BA has dropped fifty points in two at bats.

These Fox Sports Net North commentators can't carry play-by-play in a basket. They've had a guest in the booth almost every inning. And when they're alone, they talk to each other about unrelated stuff.

Oh man, who was that last stikeout-that was truly embarassing. I by now have my sound off and happened to glance up. without names on uniforms I am helpless, but I think maybe it was 15.

Trade Furcal. Keep Izturis. Same hitter. Way better fielder. Way Cheaper.

185 You must keep Furcal with his contract, I agree. But of the three you mention, Isturiz is a good defensive ballplayer, so wheres the logic.

Trade Furcal. Keep Izturis. Same hitter. Way better fielder. Way Cheaper.

this is a joke, right? Same hitter? Let's see...Izturis has no power, no speed, and doesnt' draw walks...he basically lives off singles so when they aren't falling it's like having another pitcher in the lineup.

I thought Billingsley was supposed to be a power pitcher, but he's only got one strikeout in this game. Was I wrong?

191. Look at the numbers.

190-

right, but then it brings about the discourse of how important his defense is. I'd personally rather have a guy who could actually hit the ball yet make, say, 8 or 9 more errors on the season than a guy who makes no errors but can't hit water if he jumped out of a boat.

Izturis is basically Royce Clayton...yet somehow no one understands that.

NO. Furcal has no speed or power. They are relatively equal

Royce Fur-kel. It has a ring.

Ok so Royce Clayton is no hitter but are you saying he can at least field?
I can dig that.

0-2 to a walk. WTF

193 Would these be the 300 at bats this year, or the several thousand he accumulated prior to this.

At this point last year, Furcal was worse (.226 /.281/347), and he still finished fine. It's way too soon to write him off.

Bills can't be a minor league pitcher up here man! (he's only 21 though, be patient)

If I am paying a player 13 Mil he better put up 30 JACKS. Furcal just doesn't cut it.

89 pitches, 46 strikes, 6 hits, 6 walks, one K.

Wow, that was a HELL of a throw AND tag!

that's right!! (Ethier's great throw)

Andre gives up two runs, gets one back.

He kinda looked safe to me.

Very good throw by Ethier, but a great tag by Martin.

Hell of a throw by Ethier.

The 4th outfielder strikes again!

201

What if it were Pedro Martinez?

201 Wait, the capital letters are throwing me. Are you just being sarcastic now? I really can't tell.

Thrown out at the plate by Ethier? Wow, 2 outfield assists in one game for the Dodgers.

I hate Lofton.

203

like Martin says close plays to the plate are instiked plays!

I think it is important that Billingsley is young and only has a few months at triple A. He is an excellant prospect.

I think it is important that Billingsley is young and only has a few months at triple A. He is an excellant prospect.

206- he was barely out

K Loft is junk

206 - Yeah... I'd like to see that replay of that.

206- I hope your chicken comes out dry.

210. True

Not that stupid "30 jacks" thing again. I thought all the dodgers.com trolls were weeded out?

Why is it that RFs are suposed to have stronger arms than LFs?

213. Me too. Flyball outs. WTH

221. Would you pay Ramon Martinez 10 MIL a year?

I could dig any guy who made 9 or 10 errors a season. At almost any infield position. Period.

222 The RF has to make a throw across the field to get a runner going to third (see, Vlad, Ichiro). The LF is never going to have a play where he has to throw to get a runner going to first. Unless it's to double up a runner.

In Omaha, in a 2-2 tie in the bottom of the eighth with 2 outs, North Carolina's runner on third tried to steal home. He would have been safe, but the batter struck out on the same pitch to end the inning.

Look at the numbers.

alright, let's do that. Izturis' batting averages from 2001-2005: .269, .232., .251, .288, .257

his obp: .279, .253, .282, .330, .302

his steals: 8, 7, 10, 25, 8

And a total of 10 HR.

Let's look at the same with Furcal, his avgs: .275, .275, .292, .279, .284

OBP: .321, .323, .352, .344, .348

steals: 22. 27, 25, 29, 46

Total HR of 53.

Same hitter? Really? I understand izturis is better defensively, but is that really worth having such a bad hitter in the lineup? I mean, let's say Nomar wasn't playing first all that well...would you rather have JT Snow there? No. Izturis is really no different than a guy like Snow...can't hit, great defensive replacement/spot starter but that's it.

Yet somehow everyone thinks Izturis is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Whoa, It's hard to believe that got thru untouched.

Billingsley has been worse than Hootie and the Blowfish

What happened to Bills' killer curve? I swear he's thrown 90% fastballs tonight.

232 - maybe he couldn't spot it before the game?

Kind of bad if he didn't.

219 Impossible with that marinade :)

228. Furcal is still not worth 13 MIL a year. You can't ever justify that number.

No more walks.

S@@@ s@@@

234 That's why he's harder to trade, your argument is counter-intuitive.

234-

if that's the only response, then I'll assume I proved my point.

Good move by Grits to take out Billingsley. He has no command.

Kou against there left hander.... like it

Royce Clayton certainly not fielding up a storm this year. And we know from storms out here.

glub.

I'm willing to listen, but the post injury 13 mil. Furcal has 10 doubles and 2 HR in 300 at bats. I will even root for him to come back.

if Kou is any were near the strike zone, look out

For the season, Billingsley's walks to strikeouts ratio is 13:6. That's not gonna cut it for very long.

Yikes, Bills' WHIP is ugly tonight, 14 baserunners (not to mention the guy he hit) in 5 2/3 IP. Doesn't look like he's ready yet, but when the alternatives are Seo and Odalis you give him some more leeway.

Kuo Fax

Kuo is gonna walk him.

Even worse.

Strong outing for Randy Johnson tonight -- 7 innings, 4H, 0R, 0BB, 9K. Yankees bullpen trying to give it back however.

Atlanta is actually beating NY 2-0 over the final seven innings. Too bad for them NY scored five in the first two.

Damn that Mauer is tough. Can anyone get him out? I'm not just talking about the Dodgers, I'm asking the whole league.

221 -- It's not the same thing. Thirty bombs was bad before. Now it's good.

it would be nice if we could get one bullpen pitcher to go along with saito that can actually pitch.

just one. Is that too much to ask?

Kuo provides relief in only the loosest of interpretations

Way to go Kuo

251 Ohhh, so we should have kept Choi then?

Kuo just Baezed Billingsley

243

I guess I was wrong

When do we play PITT again?

Kuo-dependent. What will we do against their good pitchers? Maybe against all logic, our hitters will go wild. I can hope.
Help I think I'm going manic again.

258

I wish we played them, often!

I'm not gonna give up on this game that easily though.

GO DODGERS!!!

Awkward to lose to Silva when you've got to face Liriano and Santana the next two.

I druther win here.

Throwing error on a routine grounder to second gives Oregon State a run in the bottom of the 8th and the Beavers lead 3-2 with 3 outs to get for the championship.

Kuo has absolutely no idea where his pitches are going. Is Jesse Orosco still alive?

In some sense, it's kind of nice that we know our pitchers are killing themselves -- they can always start throwing strikes. Right? Right? [hollow] [echo] [crickets]

Nice freaking move Grady, bring in the guy who couldn't hit the side of a red barn against the Major league leading hitter.

263

Yes, but his arm probably isn't.

Oregon State! Oregon State!

I don't mean to be crass, but can we at least score one more run so that Nathan gets the save for my fantasy team?

Billingsley this season: 16 IP, 13 BB, 6 K, ERA 5.62.

I think he needs more time at Vegas.

265- yea because he really has a lot of choices in the bullpen.

Baez- junk
Broxton- has been overworked
Beimel- mediocre, has pitched a lot
Seo- junk
Kuo- great stuff, no control
Perez- will probably pitch Wednesday

How many liners have we had right at the outfielders tonight? It's still been a weak offensive output, but the luck hasn't been there.

"Let's put Kuo in to face Mauer."
"Um, Grady, are you sure that's a good idea?"
"Of course it is. You see, Kuo's left-handed and so is their batter."
"Grady, he's leading all of baseball in batting average."
"You just don't understand playing the percentages. That's what smart manager's like me do."

New rule: From now on, Rick Honeycutt decides which pitchers go in, and Grady gets fined $100,000 every time he does it. The man is certifiably incompetent with a pitching staff.

Your brain
http://tinyurl.com/rb4cr
Your brain on drugs
http://tinyurl.com/q5rk3

Little observation on Billingsley:

He needs to develop a 3rd pitch. I don't think his slider is getting it done....at least not like his fastball and curve, which look like plus pitches. He needs to go to Gagne school or Clemens school to develop a change or a splitter. I don't think he'll be a projectable ace unless he has a nice third pitch to go with the rest of his arsenol. On the bright side, he is still 21 and most likely would be a juniour in College if he went that route. He's got a lot of time before he hits his prime and has a bright outlook to become a future ace.

I love our "Proven Closer." Ned better pray that Tiffany doesn't turn into a solid major league pitcher or I am going to )(&()&%.

Has "Baez getting rocked" become so blase that it doesn't even warrant discussion around here anymore?

The only difference between Baez and the real Cuban Missile Crisis is that the real Cuban Missile Crisis didn't end with nuclear winter.

When do we play the PIRATES AGAIN?

Herman is bucking for a yellow card soon.

This is embarrasing, but remember, our prospects were two years away last year, and are helpful but one year away this year.
If we stay the course, next year we should be an outfit like the Twins, with more money to use. My only reluctance is I'm not sure we have pitching enough, or know how to find it and develop it.

How cn Baez ERA only be 4.42?

276

it's getting there

What is particularly so embarrassing about losing this game more so than any other game?

Nothing. Only losing it 8 to 2.
Twins have built from within for years and there is nothing wrong with losing to them. But our pitching is beyond any defense.

278 -- Actually, we play the Pirates again, Sept. 19-21, at Dodger Stadium. We benefit this season from an anomaly of the unbalanced schedule.

280 Does this mean we'll resign Sandy Alomar and start him ahead of Martin?

281 Baez has given up a measure of unearned runs and inherited runs. For awhile, he had that 0.00 ERA but blew a save on his throwing error which saved his E.R.A. Also, he was part of that San Diego fiasco in which he helped Lance Carter clear the bases.

But, yeah, Baez seems to have a knack for sucking really bad at times. I finally dropped him in my fantasy league after his Seattle blowup.

Oooh, Simpson's episode where Homer designs his ultimate car guest starring Danny Devito.

We could try pitching Sandy Alomar. I have been a Dodger fan for almost 50 years, and our pitching has almost always been distinguished. You could put all the ML pitchers in a hat and draw 11, and rarely would you come up with worse than we have.
Perhaps starters aside. But I really wonder.

Herman - Can I ask you to stop the fake cursing also, please? When I know what it is, I know what it is, if you get my drift.

You're not the only person who gets upset, but you'll notice that everyone else is able to hold back.

Thanks.

Pittsburgh plays us 10 times this season, plays the Giants 7 times, and plays the Diamondbacks, Rockies and Padres 6 times each.

Does the fact we have the second best starter ERA in baseball blow anyone elses mind? (Bear in mind this comes from ESPN.com, where they sometimes just randomly generate numbers).

Real curses, like "Baez," are allowed in context.

On another Dodger board, a Twins' fan is reporting that there is word going around local (i.e., Minn-St.Paul) media circles that the Twins and Dodgers are talking about a trade that would send Aybar to the Twins and RHP Scott Baker to the Dodgers. That actually sounds like a very realistic trade, especially given that we know the Dodgers aren't that high on Aybar.

It doesn't surprise me as much as it should, because our starters only go about 5 innings and then surrender to worse than random luck.

Oh man I would crap my pants if we were to pull off that trade.

The Twins are one of the few ML teams with young pitching to spare and while Baker's stats didn't look too hot while he was up with the Twins earlier he has very good stuff and could settle in as a quality #3 pitcher.

Semi-interesting tidbit from Dodgers.com:

Monday's game in the Metrodome is the first on artificial turf for the Dodgers since Aug. 24-26, 2004, in Montreal.

Tomorrow we will see what a real pitching prospect looks like who isn't afraid or unable to throw strikes.
By the time we get home against the Diamondbacks we will have lost 5 of 6 games and will probably still be in 1st place. What a pathetic division.

AS I said earlier, Aybar and even Young are players who would definitely play on a small market team. Does this Baker have anything. Realistically.

293
I would welcome that trade. As Canuck said that would be a nice deal for both teams. We should be lucky that Baker started off slow if we could nab him for Aybar.

I suck at Photoshop, but I made something very useful. I am saving myself and others a lot of time from having to type the same thing every time he comes in.

http://tinyurl.com/olkpn

Through the first 3 starts, Billingsley looks no where close to being the #1 pitching prospect in baseball.

4 swing and misses tonite on 103 pitches.

All together 8 swing and misses on 298 big league pitches thrown. The bottomline is the guy isnt missing enough bats. If his stuff was as good as BA says it is, he'd be getting guys to actually swing and miss the ball.

He'll improve hopefully, but he's massively overhyped at this stage of his career. If you're the #1 pitching prospect in baseball, you should be able to handle the Padres, Mariners, and Twins. His control will get better I think, but the key is his overall stuff. He's very hittable.

293 He looks like a younger Jae Seo. I know I shouldn't judge things based on one person, but I really don't want another pitcher whose only skill is that he doesn't walk people with a terrible ground ball to flyball ratio.

At least Baker isn't coming from a very home run forgiving park.

TC-- wanted to tell you while I could. Sometimes I don't read your Minor L summaries because on the E coast one of my pleasures is going through them the next morning.-but they are good. Although they are falling apart, the last few years I have seen our prospects often in pairs. The acrobats, Hu and Abrue. the Italian surname outfielders, Ruffiano and Raqgleati(sp?),the athletic outfielders, Hoffman and X Paul, the interchangeale infielders, Denker and Dewitt. Get this?

That trade would be very acceptable.

230 - OucH! Even those Burger King commercials that Hootie did?

263 - I think Mulholland is available these days...

anybody ready for more Journey yet?

302- Isn't Rochester .75 HR? So, about the same as PetCo, right?

Hmm, so you were kidding were you? Well, two can play at that game, regFOULfield. Hah! Because your name is regfairfield, you know. . . get it?

By the time we get home against the Diamondbacks we will have lost 5 of 6 games

Why are you assuming the Dodgers wont be able to beat the Angels? The Angels are a bad team.

Plus Penny/Lowe are pitching 2/3 against the Halos. I think the worst they'll do on this trip is 3-3.

As long as we don't trade for Mark Hendrickson.

301 -- Prospect status is determined by potential, and that potential is judged by the professionals whose jobs depend on accurately estimating the futures of minor league players. If polish and major league readiness determined prospect status, every minor leaguer 24 or 25 years old would be rated higher than guys Billingsley's age.

And you can't judge a kid pitcher's stuff by swings and misses in his first few games. I recently watched a video recording of Rich Harden's second MLB game, in July 2003 against the Angels. The Angels didn't swing and miss on a single fastball the entire game. They swung and missed about four times on a 100 pitches, all breaking pitches. Getting swings and misses on fastballs is about both velocity and location, and Billingsley has still got to iron out some control isues in the majors before he starts working on finer points of command within the strike zone. It's an adjustment process at this level.

The Dodgers haven't won in an AL ballpark since 2004. They've been swept by KC, CWS, LAA, OAK, and soon MIN.

306 For some reason I didn't think to look up his minor league park factors, thanks.

For anyone interested (OK, Bob), Chris at Cap Punishment has a nice post up responding to some of Frank Robinson's recent comments about Montreal baseball fans: "Defending Montreal" http://tinyurl.com/eooh2.

I really need to stop looking at the equivelant section of PECOTA. His strikeout rate looks fine, but his extreme flyball tendencies are very, very scary.

Numbers on Baker:

2005
IP: 53.2 HR: 5 H/9: 8.05 K/9: 5.37 BB/9: 2.35 GO/AO: 0.65 ERA: 3.35

2006
IP:49 HR:10 H/9:12.12 K/9: 7.53 BB/9: 1.47 GO/AO: 0.38 H: 66 ERA: 6.06

Bases empty: 34 H, 6 BB, 24 K, 4 HR, 118 PA
Runner on 1st: 17 H, 1 BB, 7 K, 4 HR, 39 PA

His best splits:
Bases loaded: 1 AO
Runner 1st,2nd: 1 H, 12 PA, 2 GO, 7 AO

DOB: 9.19.1981

Notes: Numbers suggest he has good control. More effective in April when throwing fewer strikes. Should be 3-4, except the Twins only scored 1 run against the Royals in a game in which he went 7 and only allowed 7 hits and 3 runs. Has pitched in the 5th inning in each start.

His May was a nightmare, which would make me think he's a gamble. If he doesn't pitch like that, though, he'd be a great addition to the rotation (Billingsley doesn't look like he's comfortable in the majors quite yet).

310. Marlins rookie Josh Johnson got 12 swinging strikes tonite. He walked 1. Liriano in his last start against the Astros got 12 swinging strikes. He walked 2.

I think swinging strikes and walks are two important indicators as to the talent of the pitcher. So far, Billingsley doesnt look all that talented. Just 3 starts/300 pitches so far though.

However, I understand how scouts will rank players based on potential. But for them to rank someone based on potential, they have to have seen something in the performance that makes them think they'll develop. Mainly gre