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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

A Kid Grows Up in '68
2006-06-28 07:52
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Rich Lederer, Baseball Analysts:

I couldn't play baseball. I couldn't ride my bike. I couldn't even run. Well, now that I think about it, I really never could run all that well anyway. To wit, my high school coach used to time me running from home to first with a calendar. I can hear him now, "January, February, March, April..." I wasn't all that bad. I mean, I don't think I ever made it into May. Mickey Mantle could run to first base in 3.1 seconds. I could run to first base in 3.1 months. But the Mick could only do that hitting from the left side. I had the disadvantage of being a right-handed hitter.

In any event, I was sidelined that summer. I was instructed by my doctor to rest and apply ice to my knees frequently. I don't think the ice bags helped my pneumonia much, but my lungs seem to clear up at about the same pace as the improvement in my knees. I was a prime candidate for Osgood-Schlatter as it generally afflicts children in a "growth spurt" between 10 and 15 years old who are involved in sports. I was always tall for my age, but I shot up several inches that year. The good news is that I lost all my baby fat and was as slim as I had ever been.

What's a 13-year-old boy, who has no clue about girls, to do in his summer between seventh and eighth grades when he can't play his favorite sport and is mostly confined to home? ...

* * *

Today's 10 a.m. Game

Odalis Perez pitching in the Central time zone on a weekday morning. Brings back memories ...

Dodger manager Grady Little told Bill Shaikin of the Times that he doesn't anticipate leaving Perez in the rotation after today.

"We've been down that road enough," Manager Grady Little said. "I think he's valuable for us in the bullpen."

But, you know, things change. Except with Russell Martin. Martin is the designated hitter today - but batting last, of course. It's not a big deal, but keeping Martin at the bottom of the order seems to represent the often flexible Little at his most rigid.

Sandy Alomar Jr. is starting at catcher, probably for the last time in a long while. Hmm, and J.D. Drew and Nomar Garciaparra are on the bench against Twins duplicate ace Johan Santana.

Comments (544)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-28 08:18:59
1.   El Dios Azul
Maybe today, Odalis Perez can begin his comeback. I just cannot believe this guy will keep pitching as poorly as he had up to this point in the season.
2006-06-28 08:40:26
2.   StolenMonkey86
That also goes to show you how worthless the Lo Duca trade looked after Brad Penny got hurt. He was supposed to be the #1 starter, not Odalis Perez . . .
2006-06-28 08:48:35
3.   the OZ
I don't think of it as worthless, even after the injury. We got Brad Penny, who is still very valuable to the Dodgers, and one of the players (Bill Murphy?) that we shipped to Arizona along with other garbage for Steve Finley, who proved to be useful.
2006-06-28 08:48:49
4.   D4P
Speaking of Lo Duca: isn't one explanation for his infamous 2nd half slumps that he broke down as a result of overuse? In addition to catching a lot of games, didn't his "days off" often consist of playing first base instead?

I ask because of Grittle's (over)use of Martin. Not only does he catch almost everyday, but now that he gets a day off, he's DHing. Maybe he'll get more time off now that Mr. Sub-.700 OPS is backing him up.

2006-06-28 08:50:11
5.   Icaros
Why isn't Nomar at least DHing today?
2006-06-28 08:56:23
6.   StolenMonkey86
Nomar and Drew need to rest so they can be healthy when Gagne gets back. They're all going to have cake.

Everyone is missing the important story of the day. Shame on you! Matt Kemp is in the 3-hole!

2006-06-28 08:59:37
7.   scareduck
keeping Martin at the bottom of the order seems to represent Little at his most rigid.

I'm not so sure. It's fairly common practice in American League lineups to have your second- or third-best hitter working the nine hole, because then you end up with 9-1-2 having two leadoff men. At least, that's how Scioscia has done things in Anaheim for a while now.

2006-06-28 09:00:58
8.   regfairfield
7 I've always hated that strategy. It takes away a ton of at bats from your second or third best hitter.
2006-06-28 09:04:32
9.   Bluebleeder87
yeah, Martin batting 9th seems kind of odd to me but I oh well.
2006-06-28 09:05:47
10.   Bob Timmermann
Don't know if this came up last night, but the Dodgers.com roster has Hendrickson wearing #30 and Hall getting #26. Hendrickson wore #30 for the DRays, but Hall was #44 there.
2006-06-28 09:06:52
11.   Bob Timmermann
8
Dave Smith of Retrosheet is giving a presentation on lineup construction in Seattle this weekend at the SABR convention.

I will report back with the results. Dave usually posts his slides online when he gets back.

2006-06-28 09:12:19
12.   Gen3Blue
I know and can almost respect the arguments, but it still seems insane to rest Drew and Garc the same day.(I presume Santana's a lefty but it doesn't matter much.
On the other hand, I can't say Drew has done much in a while.
Can anyone tell me who the last few D's pitching coaches have been--say back to '95?
2006-06-28 09:22:33
13.   Jon Weisman
7 - Considering that Martin has never batted above No. 8 in his career, I don't think that's the reason Little is doing it.
2006-06-28 09:25:29
14.   Jacob L
12 Lets see, last few Dodger pitching coaches? Off the top of my head -

Honeycutt
Jim Colbrunn (sp)
Charlie Hough
Dave Wallace

I think that covers most if not all of the decade.

2006-06-28 09:27:42
15.   Humma Kavula
Dodgers are off tomorrow; of course Drew sits.

Nomar I can't explain.

2006-06-28 09:28:19
16.   Jon Weisman
From Lee Sinins:

(Toby) Hall failed in his attempt to break John Flaherty's record for worst career RCAA for the Devil Rays--

1 John Flaherty -94
2 Toby Hall -88
3 Miguel Cairo -57
4 Bobby Smith -48
5 Mike DiFelice -45
6 Damian Rolls -42
7 Vinny Castilla -39
T8 Felix Martinez -37
T8 Gerald Williams -37
10 Jason Tyner -36

2006-06-28 09:30:47
17.   D4P
Now that Nomar has used up all of his HRs, maybe Grittle wants to save some of his RBIs for later in the season.
2006-06-28 09:33:24
18.   Gen3Blue
14 Thanks. I seem to recall Duncan really seemed to make a difference.

The Preview at the Off. Dodger cite has a Space for player to watch in this game--and its Nomar. Go figure.

2006-06-28 09:34:00
19.   Bob Timmermann
Don't forget pitching coach Greg Goosen. He was removed during the 2002 purge.
2006-06-28 09:43:28
20.   Jacob L
Greg Goosen? Even after you've mentioned him, I've forgotten him, if that makes any sense.
2006-06-28 09:44:41
21.   JoeyP
Drew's sitting bc he isnt the best vs LHP. Of course, I have no idea why Nomar is out either.

Maybe the Dodgers are just conceding this game to the best pitcher in baseball, and dont want their star guys to go into a slump or look bad against him.

2006-06-28 09:48:35
22.   Bob Timmermann
Greg's friends called him "Retief".

Goosen was very skinny and had very good posture.

2006-06-28 09:49:55
23.   D4P
Greg's friends called him "Retief".

I thought about making a Retief-related comment, but wasn't sure anyone would know what I was talking about. Not that that has ever stopped me before...

2006-06-28 09:49:58
24.   Bluebleeder87
wow, Santana's been averaging 8 innings in his last 3 starts with a micro-ERA. (gulp)
2006-06-28 09:50:22
25.   Gen3Blue
I'm just trying to understand why anyone who puts on a D's uniform is courting disaster this season. I'm sure part of it is a run of luck. Other themes that reach this broadly include coaching, did the new seats ruin the stadiums good Karma, etc.
Don't want to go deeper yet, it could get ugly.
2006-06-28 09:57:34
26.   JoeyP
Not that it matter much against Santana, since he's usually great no matter what....But Kenny Lofton in the 2 spot (.524 OPS vs LHP), and Russ Martin batting 9th (.872) seems awfully generous of Little when facing the Twins.
2006-06-28 09:58:30
27.   Bluebleeder87
well atleast we play the Angels this coming weekend, they haven't exactly been tearing it up either.
2006-06-28 10:03:20
28.   Sam DC
So, looking over the Toaster predictions, every Toaster blogger save one picked the Tigers to be fourth in the AL Central. The one who saw things differently: Ken Arneson who impressively picked them to win it.
2006-06-28 10:05:44
29.   Bob Timmermann
And everybody made fun of Ken for picking the Tigers.

I picked Cleveland to win the division.

And the pennant.

And the World Series!

I bet on this in Las Vegas. I think my payoff will be in Confederate dollars.

2006-06-28 10:06:49
30.   Sam DC
29 They can pay Jon too, and for him Confederate dollars would be quite appropriate.
2006-06-28 10:09:15
31.   regfairfield
I'm still waiting for the pitching collapse I've been predicting for the Tigers.

If they only win 24 games the rest of the way, they'll meet my prediction for their record.

2006-06-28 10:09:32
32.   Sam DC
If we've got any Mia Farrow stalkers, er fans, she's doing an online chat at washingtonpost.com at 11:00 am Pacific.
2006-06-28 10:10:32
33.   Bob Timmermann
Today's non-baseball related quiz:

How many people live within a 10 mile radius of the intersection of Hollywood and Highland?

You need to be within 1% to get full credit.

I'm using 2005 population estimates.

The winner gets my full admiration.

2006-06-28 10:10:43
34.   D4P
I bet on this in Las Vegas

For entertainment purposes only, of course.

2006-06-28 10:11:48
35.   D4P
The winner gets my full admiration.

How much is that worth (in Confederate dollars)?

2006-06-28 10:12:33
36.   Humma Kavula
32 Not you, Previn!
2006-06-28 10:12:57
37.   Nagman
I'll feel much better after we get a hit.
2006-06-28 10:14:40
38.   Jacob L
33 I'm sure, at my work, I have the resources to provide a very accurate response. I think you're asking for a guesss, though. 2.3 million.
2006-06-28 10:15:38
39.   El Dios Azul
Encouraging at-bat for the Matt Kemp Club. He laid off of those inside and down pitches that he tends to swing at and miss....
2006-06-28 10:15:57
40.   Bob Timmermann
38
Surprisingly, 2.3 million is too low.

We should congratulate Matt Kemp on getting to a 3-ball count.

2006-06-28 10:16:29
41.   Sam DC
3 million
2006-06-28 10:17:37
42.   El Dios Azul
Odalis....let the adventure begin. It has become increasingly difficult to route for this guy. Well, we did trade Sheffield for Odalis...one arse for another..
2006-06-28 10:17:47
43.   Sam DC
hadn't seen 40 when I typed 41 (in case you think I'm a "one dollar, Bob" type of player.
2006-06-28 10:18:31
44.   Bob Timmermann
41
Sam DC has my full admiration.

ESRI estimates the total for 2005 at 3,063,715 within a 10-mile radius of that intersection. And there is a good chunk of that is just the Santa Monica Mountains.

And another good chunk which is part of the San Fernando Valley, the Westside and Downtown.

2006-06-28 10:19:49
45.   Humma Kavula
44 But he didn't get within 1%!
2006-06-28 10:20:57
46.   Bob Timmermann
Sam got within 2.5%. I changed the rules at a whim.
2006-06-28 10:21:01
47.   Humma Kavula
Jeez, Joe Mauer.
2006-06-28 10:21:17
48.   regfairfield
Now that's a professional hitter.
2006-06-28 10:21:32
49.   Xeifrank
Not posting today's Dodger Sim result as I don't want to jinx the team again. Interesting that Nomar is out of the lineup in a game where Drew is rested. Looks like we picked a bad time to play the Twins.
vr, Xei
2006-06-28 10:21:44
50.   Bob Timmermann
Time for Odalis to show that he can get by on as few pithes as Santana.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-28 10:22:13
51.   El Dios Azul
49 I love your sim blog... Do you use DMB?
2006-06-28 10:22:19
52.   Humma Kavula
Remember when everybody was up in arms about the fact that the Twins couldn't afford Mark Prior and had to settle for Mauer? Remember how it indicated that the draft system needed to be scrapped?
2006-06-28 10:22:26
53.   Sam DC
32 I should also add that Kevin Smith is chatting right now about his career and his plans for Clerks II.

I will stay above the recount fray, leaving the sharp-elbow-throwing to my surrogates.

2006-06-28 10:22:53
54.   regfairfield
Anyone know how hard OP is throwing?
2006-06-28 10:23:31
55.   JoeyP
OP has such bad luck......
2006-06-28 10:23:52
56.   Bob Timmermann
My margin for error in my contest had a margin of error of its own.
2006-06-28 10:24:33
57.   El Dios Azul
Here we ago again, does this look familiar?
2006-06-28 10:25:23
58.   StolenMonkey86
Odalis didn't get the memo. The idea is to make sure the ball goes to the left side of the infield.
2006-06-28 10:25:26
59.   Xeifrank
49. dmb?
Dave Matthews Band?
Digital Multimedia Broadcasting?
Diamond Mind Baseball?? :)
Nope, I wrote my own program using VB. I'm still making improvements to it. It nailed a couple of games in a row then tanked the first two vs the Twins.
vr, Xei
2006-06-28 10:25:43
60.   Humma Kavula
52 And as long as I'm playing "Remember When..."

Remember when the AL Central wasn't any good?

2006-06-28 10:26:08
61.   regfairfield
Yeah, I hate it when pitchers give up a hit to possibly the best contact hitter in the AL and then let a grounder go up the middle.
2006-06-28 10:26:30
62.   Bob Timmermann
The Royals are still in the AL Central, so the division suffers for it.
2006-06-28 10:26:44
63.   Xeifrank
3 hits without allowing a run... now that's talent!! vr, Xei
2006-06-28 10:27:43
64.   Humma Kavula
Wow.
2006-06-28 10:27:59
65.   Bluebleeder87
Perez, being Perez.
2006-06-28 10:28:02
66.   Xeifrank
The Twins would probably be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the NL. Instead they are the 3rd best in the AL Central. vr, Xei
2006-06-28 10:28:29
67.   regfairfield
Dang.
2006-06-28 10:28:32
68.   Bob Timmermann
So, let's go back to some more fun L.A. demographic guessing games shall we?

This one's over.

2006-06-28 10:28:35
69.   JoeyP
That was a combination of bad luck, and really bad pitching.

Maybe today is the last we'll see out of OP. He's pitching like he wants to get out of here.

2006-06-28 10:28:48
70.   Xeifrank
oh well, who do we play next?
vr, Xei
2006-06-28 10:29:03
71.   alex 7
just when you thought he couldn't do any worse, Perez clutches up!
2006-06-28 10:29:13
72.   scooplew
Do you think OP thinks that he needs to get only two outs per inning? How many times recently has he gotten the first two batters out only to implode?
2006-06-28 10:29:26
73.   Jacob L
Well, I'll say this. I'm pining for some Mark Hendrickson about now.
2006-06-28 10:29:28
74.   Bluebleeder87
Why don't pitchers waste a pitch or two, or they don't do that in the majors.
2006-06-28 10:29:43
75.   Humma Kavula
69 You don't have to be Kreskin to predict that this will be the last we see of OP.
2006-06-28 10:30:06
76.   Xeifrank
Maybe Jon could do us a favor and put up friday's Dodger/Angel game thread. :)
vr, Xei
2006-06-28 10:30:17
77.   JT Dutch
... How embarrassing. Way to get that ERA back up to where it should be, Odalis.
2006-06-28 10:31:08
78.   StolenMonkey86
Every out recorded has involved Izturis.

So who goes in as the mop-up man in the 3rd inning?

2006-06-28 10:31:27
79.   JoeyP
Lew Ford still plays for the Twins?
If I could ever think of a stereotype for the word "scrappy", it'd be Lew Ford.
2006-06-28 10:31:34
80.   Sam DC
Somewhere, a BatGirl is happy.
2006-06-28 10:31:42
81.   DXMachina
63 3 hits without allowing a run... now that's talent!!

Now if he could just figure out how to do it on that fourth hit.

2006-06-28 10:31:59
82.   StolenMonkey86
Those guys with two consecutive i's in their names will always haunt the Dodgers.
2006-06-28 10:32:04
83.   Nagman
I'll still feel better after we get a hit...
2006-06-28 10:32:12
84.   Xeifrank
78. Good point? We traded our mop up man. Since we don't play again til friday, it will probably be "mop by committe".
vr, Xei
2006-06-28 10:32:44
85.   DXMachina
78 So who goes in as the mop-up man in the 3rd inning?

Seo?

Oh. Wait.

2006-06-28 10:32:58
86.   Bluebleeder87
Mourneu (sp?) i've watched him play 1st base in the past, I'm not impressed with his glove at all.
2006-06-28 10:33:19
87.   Bob Timmermann
The mopup guy is starting. Odalis is going to have to take one for the team today.

Or maybe after the third all the other relievers will come in to pitch one inning apiece since the team is off tomorrow.

Which inning will be the Baez inning? Which one for Kuo? Which one for Broxton?

2006-06-28 10:33:50
88.   Bluebleeder87
84

were's Erickson when you need him.

2006-06-28 10:33:58
89.   StolenMonkey86
Winning game plan: foul off 50 pitches in the next two innings.
2006-06-28 10:34:55
90.   Bluebleeder87
Alomar Jr. is a hitting machine.
2006-06-28 10:34:55
91.   Humma Kavula
And Alomar gets our first hit!
2006-06-28 10:35:22
92.   Gen3Blue
All with 2 outs and 2 strikes. OP was pitching pretty well. No one else can get out Mauer. I'm afraid I can see where this pschyological game is going. Even if someone can beat the overpowering thought that he's the loser, he has to beat Santana.
Here's hoping. Hey , look at Alomar.
2006-06-28 10:36:00
93.   alex 7
is Sandy's D really so bad that he can't even make his .364 average land him a backup catching job on the Dodgers?

I haven't watched too many games so just going off what I've heard as far as his D.

2006-06-28 10:36:14
94.   StolenMonkey86
Baez for mopup man.
2006-06-28 10:36:49
95.   Humma Kavula
92 I don't think anybody's really all that angry at OP about the three singles. "Bad luck," JoeyP called 'em, and in my opinion, that's about right.

The home run is another story.

2006-06-28 10:37:22
96.   alex 7
could use a 2-run HR here
2006-06-28 10:38:34
97.   Bluebleeder87
dose the rally monkey still exist in Anahiem?
2006-06-28 10:38:44
98.   alex 7
automatic out feeling with Izturis.
2006-06-28 10:39:06
99.   StolenMonkey86
It's mainly his gamecalling.

Hall will catch the first game that Hendrickson throws, will probably watch the whole rotation before eventually trying out each of them.

2006-06-28 10:39:20
100.   regfairfield
98 Against Johan, that's a pretty good feeling.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-28 10:39:22
101.   Sam DC
How the other half lives: http://www.bat-girl.com/.

From her discussion of the 8-2 game (as opposed to the 9-2 game): "We are winning because Joe Morgan is a giant boob. Hear me out here . . ."

C'mon Cesar!

2006-06-28 10:41:10
102.   bluegold
Bad luck my a$$. How come every time OP pitches, there are bad luck hits? Bad pitching is more like it. Last year OP blames no offensive support. This year it is bad luck? Give me a break.
2006-06-28 10:42:00
103.   alex 7
aren't the pitchers and pre-game scouting in charge of gamecalling? It's not like Sandy just sits back there and makes up strategies that haven't been covered and that the pitchers can't shake off.
2006-06-28 10:44:11
104.   JoeyP
How come every time OP pitches, there are bad luck hits?

For the same reason that Hendrickson has a 3.81 ERA.

2006-06-28 10:46:24
105.   Humma Kavula
102 Well, I wasn't talking about the past. I was talking about those three singles.

The first was to Joe Mauer.
The second, grounder up the middle.
The third, infield single.

I'm not sure what else OP could've done there....

...but, again, the HR is another story.

2006-06-28 10:48:24
106.   Jacob L
If you want to give OP the benefit of the doubt, our good pitchers have been ripped to shreds in this series, too.
2006-06-28 10:48:40
107.   StolenMonkey86
Hey, Odalis played defense!
2006-06-28 10:49:33
108.   bluegold
105 - I'm not sure what else OP could've done there....

How about striking them out?

2006-06-28 10:51:10
109.   JoeyP
He got Mauer out.
Thats progress.
2006-06-28 10:51:38
110.   Bluebleeder87
I still think OP should throw some high heat to Mauer.
2006-06-28 10:51:58
111.   herman
I guess another team is getting "lucky" against O. Perez. LOL. That grand slam was so lucky. He barely hit that ball. LOL.
2006-06-28 10:52:13
112.   StolenMonkey86
What's high heat for Otown? 88?
2006-06-28 10:52:39
113.   Humma Kavula
111 I don't believe that anybody said that.
2006-06-28 10:53:13
114.   herman
106- Perez hasn't pitched a good game all year. DFA he.
2006-06-28 10:53:15
115.   underdog
This series with the Twins... thinking back on it (because I'm already thinking back on it as much as I'm also already thinking ahead), it... made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. We're having the kind of series Arizona had a few times this month.

Can we leave now?

Oh well, at least OP settled down a little in the 2nd.

A little.

I wonder if we can change the shorthand "OP" to OOP (as in "oops" or, for us video store geeks, for "out of print", the DVD biz equivalent of DFA, which is perhaps what Perez will be soon.)

2006-06-28 10:53:38
116.   Bluebleeder87
112

chin music.

2006-06-28 10:55:13
117.   herman
113. I know no one said that. I am just having a laugh.
2006-06-28 10:55:55
118.   herman
114- *DFA him
2006-06-28 10:56:19
119.   JT Dutch
Perez's concentration and focus is already DFA ... his fat body needs to go with it.
2006-06-28 10:56:25
120.   herman
Weak lineup.
2006-06-28 10:56:32
121.   Bluebleeder87
you think Santana will blank us today? I hope not, let's score on this guy atleast.
2006-06-28 10:58:49
122.   Bluebleeder87
119

OP's bellie dons't look as big as other times, maybe he's traying to stay in shape now.

2006-06-28 10:59:20
123.   underdog
Phrase to become accustomed to today:
"In play, out(s) recorded"

====
Funny, when you think of what DFA stands for, "Designated for assignment" - what would Perez be assigned to? Sounds like he'd be studying for an exam or something. Maybe the assignment would be to get therapy, and or to re-learn how to pitch*?

(* "pitch instead of bitch" could be his new mantra in therapy)

2006-06-28 11:00:24
124.   herman
Lucky hit. LOL
2006-06-28 11:00:53
125.   regfairfield
114 Except for that time he allowed three runs in nineteen innings.

I'm not going to deny Odalis has been terrible, but it's only been eight starts and he's been jerked around all year. If we DFA him who comes up? Osoria? Hamulack? Houlton? I admit the man has not had a good year up to this point, but its not like booting him helps the team by any appreciable amount?

2006-06-28 11:01:06
126.   scareduck
Heckuva first inning.

Too bad that was the game.

2006-06-28 11:01:39
127.   alex 7
now that lofton's hot hitting has come down to earth, he really serves almost no purpose on the team. Maybe as a pinch runner but that's it. He is 2 for his last 26.
2006-06-28 11:01:52
128.   Jacob L
In response to someone's query a while back -

I think Perez needs to be his own mop up man today. I see a big buffet table full of innings, and not many diners.

2006-06-28 11:01:54
129.   Greg Brock
I'm tired of all this DFA nonsense. I want this headline:

Dodgers Fire Odalis Perez.

2006-06-28 11:02:23
130.   underdog
125 And to be fair, it's not like he'll do any worse today than Lowe or Billingsley did this series. I mean, the Twins are hitting everything right now. I'm kind of glad Hendrickson isn't starting til the weekend.
2006-06-28 11:02:50
131.   herman
Minn's luck ran out that inning. LOL
2006-06-28 11:03:42
132.   herman
130- Perez has been this bad every game he goes out there.
2006-06-28 11:04:47
133.   JoeyP
If OP shuts out the Twins from innings 2-7, I wonder what his post game comments will be.

It'd be funny if he was like "I only threw one bad pitch all game"

2006-06-28 11:04:47
134.   Bluebleeder87
hey, you think we'll score atleast one on this Johan Santana guy?
2006-06-28 11:04:58
135.   alex 7
what's unfortunate is that the weak NL west will keep the Dodgers in the hunt and not allow Gritz/Colletti to bench guys like Lofton, Tomko, Sele, and Izturis while allowing younger guys with higher ceilings to take their PT.

If we were in a real division, we'd trade Kent and Tomko/Sele for something worthwhile.

2006-06-28 11:04:59
136.   alex 7
what's unfortunate is that the weak NL west will keep the Dodgers in the hunt and not allow Gritz/Colletti to bench guys like Lofton, Tomko, Sele, and Izturis while allowing younger guys with higher ceilings to take their PT.

If we were in a real division, we'd trade Kent and Tomko/Sele for something worthwhile.

2006-06-28 11:05:34
137.   StolenMonkey86
Odalis has a game plan now. Throw the ball to the right-handed side of the plate. Then the batter hits it to the left side of the field.
2006-06-28 11:05:56
138.   regfairfield
Hey, way to ignore the games were Odalis has been good that I just brought up.

Let me put it this way. We all know Aaron Sele stinks, and a collapse is inevitable. Well he's been good for nine starts, yet no one well admit he's good. If we are allowing that much time for Sele to become bad, why won't we give Odalis at least that much of a chance to be good?

2006-06-28 11:07:14
139.   herman
PEREZ's PLAN- Throw ball and try not to give up "lucky" homeruns. LOL
2006-06-28 11:08:06
140.   JoeyP
Kent's untradeable with his contract.
Maybe a team like the Yankees would take that on, but they already have Cano. Kent to the Red Sox might make some sense. They could take his contract.
2006-06-28 11:08:48
141.   JoeyP
Santana is a little off his game today.
He hardly ever walks people and usually strikes out more than he has so far.
2006-06-28 11:08:54
142.   Gen3Blue
130 Truth
On the bright side, if we stay the course a bit and don't do anything too stupid, I can see two years down the road we might have several players almost as good as Mauer.
2006-06-28 11:09:29
143.   herman
People don't like Perez because his attitude sucks worse than his pitching. (And his pitching is pretty bad)
2006-06-28 11:09:31
144.   D4P
"Trade" "Jeff" "Kent"
"Trade" "Jeff" "Kent"
2006-06-28 11:09:43
145.   LAT
OK who is the idiot that said 2006 Odalis will get better and then said he was prepared to see Odalis through as a starter the rest of the year.

Oh yea, it was me. What a moroon!

2006-06-28 11:09:44
146.   herman
Changeup
2006-06-28 11:09:51
147.   alex 7
still only a 2-run HR from making a game out of this. Unfortunately we only send guys up with this potential once every 3 innings.
2006-06-28 11:10:21
148.   herman
See. I was right.
2006-06-28 11:10:44
149.   Bob Timmermann
138
I commend you for trying to use logic and reason.

But I think when Odalis Perez pitches, you are up against an angry mob that just wants blood and is reacting viscerally.

regairfield is DT's Atticus Finch today.

2006-06-28 11:11:06
150.   StolenMonkey86
You think Cano would stop the Yankees? Kent has a mustache and he's old. They're sick of A-rod anyway. Then Izzy moves to second. Kent for A-Rod, anyone?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-06-28 11:11:59
151.   Humma Kavula
149 ooh! ooh! Can I be Dill?
2006-06-28 11:12:38
152.   Steve
Perez is not only DFA garbage, but his ERA right at this moment is 6.66
2006-06-28 11:12:44
153.   alex 7
almost no contract is untradable being that teams can include cash to help offset a high contract (or take someone else's overpaid Toby Hall). I guess the problem is that Colletti just extended the contract and probably wouldn't swallow his pride and include cash in a trade of Kent even if he was getting a legit package in return.
2006-06-28 11:13:06
154.   Bob Timmermann
151
Sure.

I'm going to be Boo Radley. I think it's safer not to comment much today.

2006-06-28 11:13:19
155.   regfairfield
Hey, if Johan strikes out one more guy, it takes his K/BB ratio to 10:1.
2006-06-28 11:13:40
156.   Gen3Blue
141 I think Santana heard you, and picked it up a notch.
2006-06-28 11:13:46
157.   Vishal
the sky is falling.
2006-06-28 11:13:51
158.   fanerman
145
It's okay. 2006 is an even year. All logic says Odalis should have had a decent year.

Still, I agree with regfairfield. We should give him a bit of a chance, if only because we have nobody else right now.

2006-06-28 11:14:26
159.   fanerman
I love Johan. I've loved him since he was just a rookie coming out of the pen.
2006-06-28 11:14:29
160.   blue22
He had 3 really good starts in a row (following his 1st start of the year, which was not good), then he got shelled once. Following those 5 starts (3 good, 2 bad), was his situation with his mother, followed by his demotion to the bullpen. He really hasn't pitched well since then, but he's been in and out of the rotation and pitching very infrequently.

Given LA's lack of options, and that CBillz hasn't been the savior many (mistakenly) thought, OP has to be put back in the rotation for at least 5 starts. I don't see where else you turn, unless you make a trade.

As has been pointed out numerous times, an "anyone but [Odalis]" isn't much of an argument.

2006-06-28 11:14:39
161.   JoeyP
I feel the opposite about Odalis Perez attitude. The 03 season was brutal, the offense stunk, and OP spoke up for the fans that thought the offense was terrible that year. I could understand his frustration, bc he was right.

Even when given the chance to call out Shawn Green in public for not diving for that ball on his no hit attempt, he didnt do it. I think that showed some class.

I just think OP's attitude is way overblown, unless your a Loduca disciple cuz apparently Loduca took it personally when he criticized the offense that year.

2006-06-28 11:15:12
162.   alex 7
Yankees are 3.5 back of Boston and much further back of the White Sox for a wild-card birth. A shrewd GM could exploit that. Too bad I don't know any.
2006-06-28 11:16:09
163.   bobbygrich
A saw a note where the Twins want to break up Liriano and Santana by putting Radke in between them, unfortunately for the Dodgers that won't happen until after the All Star break. The note also said that they are only scheduled to face the same team only one more time before the break.

Of course things could be worse, at least there will be a race this year in the NL West this year.

2006-06-28 11:16:51
164.   Icaros
154

Quit sticking things in that tree!

2006-06-28 11:17:47
165.   fanerman
162 - Word.
2006-06-28 11:18:13
166.   blue22
162 - Is there literally anyone on the Yankees that would be interesting to get in return? Melky Cabrera?
2006-06-28 11:19:03
167.   herman
Someone should introduce O. Perez to HGH. LOL.
2006-06-28 11:19:32
168.   StolenMonkey86
163 - You can be redundant if you repeat yourself.

We had a race last year in the NL West, but it was a snail race.

2006-06-28 11:19:35
169.   Greg Brock
I will play Tom Robinson's overalls.
2006-06-28 11:20:08
170.   fanerman
I find Odalis's lack of K's disturbing.
2006-06-28 11:20:30
171.   JoeyP
A-Rod would be awesome. You'd be probably getting him at a discount bc the Rangers are still paying some of his deal, and I'm sure the Yankees would too.

Would you trade Kemp/Billingsley for A-Rod?

I'd do that in a heartbeat.

2006-06-28 11:20:48
172.   Dark Horse
161-My mind positively reels at the notion Odalis ever had a no-hit attempt. He did, didn't he? My God! At this point, I pretty much believe you could pit him against a line-up of the nine worst-hitting pitchers in the league and he'd get shelled.
2006-06-28 11:20:56
173.   bobbygrich
I don't see why anyone wants to trade Kent, even with the rookies, this team is going to need Nomar, Drew and Kent in the middle of the lineup.
2006-06-28 11:21:21
174.   Bluebleeder87
I wonder what the odds are of Izzy taking Johan deep?
2006-06-28 11:21:56
175.   JoeyP
172. He almost threw a perfect game against the Cubs in 2002. The next season was when Green didnt dive for the ball I think.
2006-06-28 11:22:35
176.   alex 7
two quality at bats for Cruz.
2006-06-28 11:22:56
177.   herman
174. 1,000,000 to 1
2006-06-28 11:23:07
178.   Greg Brock
I would love to package Izzy, Guzman, and another prospect (not named Billz, Kemp, or Martin) and make a run at Tejada to play third.
2006-06-28 11:23:59
179.   Jacob L
173 I think the fascination with trading Kent has to do with the idea that you could get something shiny in return. We still need pitching more than we need his bat. Of course, that idea went out the window when Neddy extended him for 2 years.
2006-06-28 11:25:24
180.   blue22
179 - He only extended him for one, giving the contract a total of two years remaining when signed. He's a FA after next year, as opposed to this one.
2006-06-28 11:25:28
181.   JoeyP
Its a good thing Sandy Alomar got that double or else this game would be alot more interesting.
2006-06-28 11:26:42
182.   alex 7
need him for what bobby? To win 85 games and miss the playoffs? Kent's defense, average, and slugging are declining and will continue to in the next 16 months. Might as well get something for him that can help us a little more next year (or even this season).
He's on pace for about 25 HRs, it's certainly replaceable. His biggest asset right now is his OB% derived from walks. Aybar can make that up if a MLB-ready player isn't brought in with this hypothetical Kent trade.
2006-06-28 11:26:43
183.   JT Dutch
149

... Oooh, I see -- the logical and reasonable thing to do is to continue allowing an unmotivated and uninspired pitcher to keep lousing up the ballclub with his 7 ERA? Isn't it already bad enough that he's stealing the Dodgers' money? I would say that Dodger fans have every right to be angry whenever this overpriced deadweight waddles in to lose yet another game for their team.

Those of you who want to kid yourselves into thinking you're taking the "higher ground" by saying "let's not hold him responsible for his performance; let's coddle him until he somehow finds motivation to pitch to his potential again" -- don't come back here in late September when the Dodgers finish 2 or 3 games out of a playoff spot and say "If only we hadn't let Perez continue to lose games for us, we might have had a chance." We waited all last season for Odalis to get better. We've waited nearly half the season this year. If Perez needs to "find himself", he can do it in Las Vegas or Jacksonville.

2006-06-28 11:27:20
184.   Humma Kavula
166 I would take Phil Hughes off the Yankees' hands.
2006-06-28 11:27:24
185.   StolenMonkey86
171 - Kent and Guzman.
2006-06-28 11:27:26
186.   Jacob L
180 Are you sure? I was definitely under the impression that there was at least an option year in 2008. An extension through 2007 would be, well, less brutal.
2006-06-28 11:28:23
187.   scareduck
183 - the only way this happens is if the Dodgers DFA him. I don't think so.
2006-06-28 11:28:47
188.   dzzrtRatt
What would it take to get C.C. Sabathia?

I'm just thinking of which "top of the rotation" pitcher Neddy might be targeting if it's not Dontrelle (and I don't see why the Marlins would trade him this season). Smoltz is one obvious target. Tim Hudson? Carlos Zambrano? There aren't that many likely candidates out there, who aren't also involved in pennant races of their own.

2006-06-28 11:28:56
189.   herman
Ned buys high and sells low.
2006-06-28 11:29:00
190.   Greg Brock
Joe Mauer is a very good baseball player.
2006-06-28 11:29:05
191.   regfairfield
186 Option for 2008 that vests automatically after 550 PAs in 2007. I think its a nine million dollar option, but I could be wrong there.
2006-06-28 11:29:20
192.   herman
Lucky hit number 9 for MINN.
2006-06-28 11:29:23
193.   Humma Kavula
The Twins announcers just now: "Boy, it's nice to see Mauer break out of that slump."
2006-06-28 11:29:35
194.   blue22
180 - That's what I recall...I guess I could be wrong.

184 - Phil Hughes is the one name I've heard, but Yankee prospects kinda scare me. Anyone heard from Eric Duncan recently?

I don't think the Yankees trade ARod, at least not until he goes 0-for-the-playoffs. I think the Yankees realize what they have with him.

2006-06-28 11:29:58
195.   alex 7
JT, I think part of people's argument is that Perez has at least shown an ability to pitch better while there isn't a viable option right now to replace Perez that has also shown an ability to pitch better.

Who should take OP's starts that we know would do better? Assuming Perez can/should revert a little bit to a league average pitcher instead of this joke.

2006-06-28 11:30:12
196.   Bob Timmermann
Lots of Bob Ewells out today.
2006-06-28 11:30:13
197.   fanerman
193 - Well I guess making an out does constitute a slump for Mauer.
2006-06-28 11:30:51
198.   blue22
191 - Well, there you go. That made my day - thanks. :)
2006-06-28 11:31:04
199.   s choir
Cheer up, everyone. A day off, and then the Angels. And, we got Toby Hall!
2006-06-28 11:31:09
200.   JoeyP
183. Some just want Odalis Perez in the rotation bc at this point, he's the best option. It has nothing to do with him personally or his personality.

If the Dodgers have another pitcher that will likely pitch better than OP for the remainder of the season, then by all means please pitch that guy. Unfortunately, I'm not sure who that is is.

The AnyonebutOP argument doesnt fly when there isnt anyone else better that could take his place.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-06-28 11:31:18
201.   Humma Kavula
197 Yeah, I thought it was a pretty funny joke.
2006-06-28 11:31:48
202.   regfairfield
Ah here's Kent

11.5 million in 2007.
7 million dollar option for 2008 with a 500,000 buyout. Automatically recieves nine million in 2008 if he reaches 550 PAs in 2007.

2006-06-28 11:31:51
203.   StolenMonkey86
Joe Mauer was the number 1 overall pick in the 2001 draft. He really looks like it.
2006-06-28 11:32:03
204.   Greg Brock
The viable option to replace Perez is wearing #51 and warming up in the pen.
2006-06-28 11:32:12
205.   herman
Lucky hit number 10.
2006-06-28 11:32:19
206.   ToyCannon
From BaseballHQ:
Navarro is a player "without much power" but one who does have good plate patience, as seen in his bb%, ct%, and Eye (bb/k).

Navarro AB Avg bb% ct% h% Eye PX
======= === ==== === === === ==== ===
2003-aa 208 .338 7% 90% 36% 0.83 109
2004-a/a 391 .259 10% 88% 29% 0.89 73
2005-LA* 417 .247 10% 91% 26% 1.31 61

2006-LA 75 .280 13% 76% 35% 0.61 68
2006-aaa** 40 .175 7% 82% 21% 0.43 n/a

* includes MLEs
unadjusted minor league stats

The lack of power has stayed with Navarro this season, but some of the plate patience -- specifically, his ct% -- has gone AWOL. Navarro's low AB total with LA is due to a strained hamstring in Spring Training followed by a bone bruise on his right wrist that sent him to the DL in early May; from there, Navarro was optioned to Triple-A. All in all, Navarro is not an inspiring player. His one apparent asset, Avg, looks like it was driven by a high h% in 2003 and a similarly high h% this year in his 75 AB in the Majors.

2006-06-28 11:33:08
207.   herman
204- I like that idea.
2006-06-28 11:33:25
208.   JT Dutch
... Do you guys not think there is any starting pitcher available in the Dodgers' system who can post an ERA under 6.50?
2006-06-28 11:33:30
209.   dzzrtRatt
195 I guess this means Little is literally correct when he says OP is "valuable out of the bullpen." While he obviously is a bust as a starter, his stats do show he's an awesome mop-up man -- maybe the best in the league. If my team is down by six or seven runs, OP is the guy I want to see out there to keep the lead under two digits.

The Pirates could use a guy like that.

2006-06-28 11:33:36
210.   herman
Lucky hit number 11.
2006-06-28 11:33:47
211.   ToyCannon
From BaseballHQ:
Hendrickson, 32, is the centerpiece of the deal for the Dodgers. He was profiled two weeks ago by HQ analyst Andy Andres, who noted that his base skills weren't quite on par with his glossier surface stats. The question becomes, does the change of scenery and team increase his value? Here are his BPIs to date:

Year IP Ctl Dom Cmd hr/9 ERA WHIP
=========================================
2004 183 2.3 4.3 1.9 1.0 4.81 1.40
2005 178 2.5 4.5 1.8 1.2 5.90 1.55
2006* 90 3.4 5.1 1.5 1.0 3.81 1.28

The move from Tampa to southern California won't help the soft-tossing lefty. Dodger stadium boosts HRs by righty batters by 7% while Tropicana Field reduces homers by 14%. And Hendrickson is by far more prone to righty HRs. So far this year, eight of the 10 dingers he's allowed were to right-handed batters. Last year, it was 21 of 24.

2006-06-28 11:34:18
212.   scareduck
205 - do Dodger fans have to give Hooters back their wings if the Twins get ten runs at home? I'm confused.
2006-06-28 11:34:23
213.   Gen3Blue
And round and round they go.
2006-06-28 11:35:05
214.   StolenMonkey86
I'm telling you, location. Odalis has to put the ball where it has a good chance of going to the left side. Everytime he throws to the lefty side of the plate, bad things happen.
2006-06-28 11:35:30
215.   D4P
Odalis didn't walk anyone.
2006-06-28 11:36:11
216.   Jacob L
Again, I implore OP in this situation to grab a knife and fork and a plate full of innings. May as well be 60-0.
2006-06-28 11:36:22
217.   JoeyP
Do you guys not think there is any starting pitcher available in the Dodgers' system who can post an ERA under 6.50?

Maybe Houlton?
But are you positive that Odalis Perez will continue to throw 6.50 ERA type ball for the remainder of the season? That seems highly unlikely, considering his career. Unless OP is hurt, or washed up like Nomo (and Nomo lost velocity thats why he stunk, I havent seen the physical problems with OP) then its probalby not worth trying.

2006-06-28 11:36:54
218.   s choir
211

What does Dom stand for, and roughly how are Ctl, Dom, and Cmd determined?

2006-06-28 11:37:27
219.   Bluebleeder87
Kemp making that play interesting.
2006-06-28 11:37:39
220.   Jacob L
216 Too late. If this isn't a "take one for the team" situation, I don't know what is, except, I guess, for the fact that we're off tomorrow.
2006-06-28 11:38:03
221.   StolenMonkey86
Kent's range is what makes him a good trading object. A-Rod would give us 4 shortstops to start regularly.
2006-06-28 11:38:12
222.   alex 7
again JT, the point some are tyring to make is that OP himself isn't really a 6.5 ERA pitcher, but more likely will finish the season (if he finishes it) with something like a 5 ERA (which would mean a run of 3-4 era games for Perez). Obviously bad, but not sure who can be counted on to do better than that in AAA. Especially after watching Billingsley struggle.
2006-06-28 11:38:55
223.   Icaros
212

By "give back" do you mean throw up?

2006-06-28 11:39:55
224.   Bluebleeder87
I wonder what Kelly dose these days? (the former Twins manager)
2006-06-28 11:40:04
225.   Bob Timmermann
223
It is Hooters and the chain is named after owls isn't it? I mean that's part of the logo?

And don't owls regurgitate food to feed their young?

2006-06-28 11:40:29
226.   JoeyP
I wish OP was better.
But I think at worst he'll put up a 5.00 ERA for the remainder of the year. Now that is definitely brutal and needs replacing.

However, who replaces him? Houlton/Orenduff make sense.

Apart from that, I dont see anyone else available worth trading for or that is currently on the team to try and upgrade that spot.

2006-06-28 11:41:00
227.   Jacob L
225 Sure, yeah. Its named after owls.
2006-06-28 11:41:44
228.   scareduck
223 - I thought I'd leave which end of the alimentary canal was involved up to the reader.

225 - But of course, it is species-correct.

2006-06-28 11:41:55
229.   alex 7
would be nice to see Broxton start and give us 5 some day. Does no one in the entire organization's brass think this a good idea? He's like a season and half removed from being a starter. Somewhat frustrating just as not giving Duaner a chance also was.
2006-06-28 11:42:27
230.   bigcpa
Mauer needs to go 4-4 to reach .400. Would make a nifty All Star break story if he can get there.
2006-06-28 11:43:52
231.   JoeyP
206. Navarro's hit percentage was higher bc he hit the ball in the air a lot. His GB/FB ratio was an excellent 0.76 this year. If he keeps that up, the power may come.
2006-06-28 11:44:34
232.   ToyCannon
218
Command Ratio (Cmd)

Purpose & Meaning
This is a measure of a pitcher's raw ability to get the ball over the plate. There is no more fundamental a skill than this, and so it is accurately used as a leading indicator to project future rises and falls in other gauges, such as ERA. Command is one of the best gauges to use to evaluate minor league performance. It is a prime component of a pitcher's base performance value.

Benchmarks
Baseball's upper echelon of command pitchers will have ratios in excess of 3.0. Pitchers with ratios under 1.0 — indicating that they walk more batters than they strike out — have virtually no potential for long term success.

Formula
( Strikeouts / Walks )

---------------------------------------------

Dominance Rate (Dom)

Purpose & Meaning
Used in the BPV formula, it measures how many strikeouts a pitcher allows per game equivalent.

Benchmarks
The best pitchers will have k/9 levels of 6.0 or more.

Formula
(K Allowed x 9 / IP) - Opposition Strikeouts per Game

----------------------------------------------
Control Rate (Ctl)

Purpose & Meaning
Measures how many walks a pitcher allows per game equivalent.

Benchmarks
The best pitchers will have bb/9 levels of 3.0 or less.

Formula
(BB Allowed x 9 / IP) - Opposition Walks per Game

2006-06-28 11:44:53
233.   Steve
We're not asking for anybody that can be "counted on." We're asking for someone who isn't a Fat Tub Of Goo who might improve over time, so that there is a point to this torture.
2006-06-28 11:45:13
234.   bobbygrich
The thing about Broxton is that I don't think he has developed an off speed pitch to make him an effective pitcher after the first time through the lineup.

Whlie we all look at the starting pitching as the reason for the downfall during this series, this team will have to win this year with its offense. They average over 5 runs a game and that is how they will have to do it this year.

2006-06-28 11:45:21
235.   Icaros
I remember dissecting owl pellets in sixth grade science class.

Quite bony they were.

2006-06-28 11:45:30
236.   alex 7
Mauer will go 5 for 4 then. He's that good.
2006-06-28 11:47:55
237.   alex 7
Steve, using those parameters, I vote for:

Me (I'm only 170 lbs)
You (I think)
Broxton
Houlton

2006-06-28 11:48:46
238.   Humma Kavula
Out of curiosity, when was the last time somebody was hitting .400 at the all-star break?
2006-06-28 11:50:04
239.   underdog
229 They might be willing to start Broxton at some point - except the bullpen has also been area of concern. My guess is one reason for the reluctance is not wanting to then open up yet another hole in the bullpen.

Sigh, is it the Angels series yet?

2006-06-28 11:50:19
240.   Steve
Broxton

And Bingo was his name-o

2006-06-28 11:50:42
241.   Sushirabbit
I think this series is a good reality check for everyone.
2006-06-28 11:50:52
242.   alex 7
the offense sorely lacks power, so I'm not sure they can maintain their effectiveness throughout the year unless Drew goes on a Green-like HR binge for two months. Kent's being outhomered by Dave Ross and all, Nomar's good for doubles and about 25 HRs, but after that, not sure. Kemp might continue to slump in the power department.
2006-06-28 11:51:29
243.   underdog
The Dodgers should have commemorative t-shirts made from this series that read "In play, out(s) recorded"
2006-06-28 11:52:41
244.   Jacob L
241 I think the Oakland series was a reality check. This is more like Spinal Tap's visit to Elvis' grave.
2006-06-28 11:52:43
245.   scareduck
243 - out of context, that's not helpful. Unless you knew that the Dodgers were at bat.
2006-06-28 11:53:15
246.   underdog
I think this series is somewhere between a reality check and a complete anomaly. Facing an "on fire" team - with their hitters hot and against their best pitchers - but on the other hand it did expose some weaknesses. Or at least a reminder as to how erratic the Dodgers can be. (Just like all the NL West teams.)
2006-06-28 11:54:43
247.   JoeyP
It'd be nice if they let Broxton pitch the rest of this game.
2006-06-28 11:54:46
248.   Bob Timmermann
I think it's been a while since anyone was at .400 at the ASB with a significant number of ABs.

Carew was at .394 in 1977.

2006-06-28 11:55:32
249.   Bluebleeder87
our bullpen has blown 17 games, I think that's big deal as well.
2006-06-28 11:56:13
250.   underdog
Frighteningly, Odalis Forster pitched a little better than Lowe did yesterday. In the Damning With Extremely Faint Praise Dept.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-06-28 11:56:35
251.   StolenMonkey86
234 - You are right about that. He's got a slider and I think a splitter, but he'd need a change and/or a curve. Maybe he could go to Vegas to see if Andy can show him the "LaLob."
2006-06-28 11:56:58
252.   underdog
249 Have some faith - They won't blow this one! I just know it!
2006-06-28 11:57:01
253.   Bluebleeder87
nice little pitch by Broxton
2006-06-28 11:57:22
254.   alex 7
pulling Broxton from the pen shouldn't be of concern to the pen being that the reason our pen is overused in the first place is the lack of quality (Broxtonian) pitchers starting.

More Broxton, less OP/Tomko = fewer relievers entering in the 4th. Besides, with HENDRICKSON starting, in time Tomko/Billingsley/Perez might become a guy that can be brought in to pitch 3 innings and save the pen.

2006-06-28 11:57:28
255.   bobbygrich
But before you get too down, how many teams in the NL have this type of starting pitching?
The teams that the Dodgers face the rest of the year.

Angels
Arizona
SF
StL
SD
Was
Cin
Fla
Col
Milw
NYM
Chi
Pitt

Now will they face a Schmidt, Peavy, Willis, Pedro, Carlos Zambrano, Prior and Webb, probably but not a combination like the last two games.

So is this a reality check sure, but then again the Cards have lost 8 straight to Detroit, White Sox and the Indians so what kind of check is that for them?

2006-06-28 11:58:25
256.   alex 7
Broxton now has more strikeouts today than Perez.
2006-06-28 11:58:27
257.   underdog
This and the A's series are definitely the two most depressing Dodgers series this year. I think I need therapy after this.
2006-06-28 11:58:57
258.   Humma Kavula
255 so what kind of check is that for them?

A bounced one.

2006-06-28 12:00:00
259.   Icaros
244

"Well you don't want to go raga..."

2006-06-28 12:00:55
260.   alex 7
that is encouraging bobby, thanks. Prior will likely be hurt or ineffective. We OWN Pedro :) , Willis will be traded to an AL team (the DRays for Seo, Navarro, and a top prospect), and we'll just save HENDRICKSON to face Peavy, Schmidt, Zambrano, and Webb.
2006-06-28 12:00:57
261.   fanerman
I don't feel so bad about this series because we're losing to good pitchers and good teams. You have to be delusional to believe the Dodgers are a "great" team. And we're facing teams that are better than us (at least at the time we play them). A win here or there against them would be nice but we at least beat teams like the Pirates.
2006-06-28 12:01:36
262.   StolenMonkey86
I think everyone except Furcal is looking forward to playing the Cubs.
2006-06-28 12:02:10
263.   StolenMonkey86
Unless Wood and Prior decide to be jerks and both be healthy then.
2006-06-28 12:02:23
264.   underdog
Woo hoo, 2 hits now! Go Dodgers! Go!
2006-06-28 12:03:56
265.   Sushirabbit
246, yeah, like I said in the other thread, I think the Dome has soemthing to do with it. Our infielders are not used to it and are afraid to bounce off it (which is probably smart). Throw in Liriano and Santana when he's on, and well, you have a really good AL team and the Dodgers, who maybe aren't THAT bad, but not clearly good enough to go toe to toe with Minnesota, I think even Dodger Stadium the Twins would just post a few runs less.
2006-06-28 12:04:55
266.   Icaros
You have to be delusional to believe the Dodgers are a "great" team.

Where did those folks go, anyway?

2006-06-28 12:05:43
267.   bigcpa
Last few runs at .400 I can recall. Thx to David Pinto's day-by-day database...

Todd Helton was at .397 on 8/28/00 but hit .270 thereafter to finish .372.

John Olerud was at .392 on 8/25/93 and hit .245 thereafter to finish .363.

2006-06-28 12:06:55
268.   JoeyP
Tough series for Izzy.
2006-06-28 12:07:56
269.   Humma Kavula
Breaking news: it's really, really difficult to hit .400.

Film at eleven.

2006-06-28 12:08:25
270.   Humma Kavula
I forgot to mention: thanks for the info.
2006-06-28 12:08:34
271.   Uncle Miltie
Odalis will be DFA'ed and he'll go on to be an average pitcher for his new team

Meanwhile, Ned will trade a prospect for another lousy veteran.

Forgetting that he already extended Kent's contract, Ned will add an additional year to it. Kent will continue to ride motorcycles during the offseason without a helmet.

If that's a strike, then Izturis will never walk again.

2006-06-28 12:08:43
272.   Goozmani
pull a delwyn, izturis!!! he deserves it.
2006-06-28 12:08:52
273.   Xeifrank
atleast we have the Angels to get healthy on over the weekend. The only good thing (selfishly for me) about the last two Twins games is that I have both Liriano and Santana on my keeper fantasy league team.
vr, Xei
2006-06-28 12:09:49
274.   alex 7
at what point does Izzy start hurting both this trade value and the Dodgers by playing so much?

(Steve says the moment they signed him)

2006-06-28 12:11:22
275.   bobbygrich
And you thought Baez was in mop up duty, Brad Lidge just came into a 5-0 game (the wrong way for the Astros) in the 7th inning. Boy you give up a grand slam on national tv and then you are relegated to mopping up against the Tigers.
2006-06-28 12:11:57
276.   Scanman33
If anyone has a Charlie Steiner-to-English dictionary handy, can someone please tell me what the hell he meant just now when he said, "When is .847 better than 1.000?"
2006-06-28 12:13:06
277.   bobbygrich
274 Probably not too much because any deal for Izzy will be for his glove so as long as he shows that he can make the plays, his offense won't be a consideration.

Unless he just can't hit at all but he'd have to be pretty bad to offset his glove.

2006-06-28 12:13:29
278.   ToyCannon
Were facing the two best young pitchers in baseball, so this series means nothing as far as our team goes. The bigger question this weekend will be can a bad AL team kick the crap out of a league leading NL West team. I think the answer is yes which is why I had us going 1-5 against the Twins/Angels.

I had us as a team good enough to win the NL West and I still think that is true. No one in the NL is any good this year except for the Mets and they could easily lose Pedro and then your not exactly scared about that rotation heading into a short series. Were not good enough to win the West easily but hopefully when the dust settles we will be on top but I wouldn't expect more then 88 wins.

2006-06-28 12:14:36
279.   D4P
Odalis will be DFA'ed and he'll go on to be an average pitcher for his new team

Yep. And Hendrickson will get off to a good start, prompting "Ned is a genius" responses from certain populations. Then reality will set in (see: Seo, Baez, Tomko, etc.).

2006-06-28 12:16:43
280.   JoeyP
I was thinking the Dodgers were pitching Lowe/Penny this weekend, but only Penny is pitching. Plus, they moved Sele back again so he's not going either. The Angels are throwing their 3 most talented starting pitchers- Colon, Escobar, Lackey.

I'd be happy with 2 of 3. I was thinking sweep earlier bc the Angels arent very good, but the pitching matchups arent favorable I dont think.

2006-06-28 12:17:38
281.   underdog
278 I think you're on target with all of that. Except (and I could, unfortunately, be proven wrong) that I think they'll do much better against the Angels. Although Anaheim (he says defiantly) is playing better than they were when we smoked them awhile back, they're not the Twins, and the Dodgers should play better closer to home. That said, they'll need to (said in Emerill voice) kick it up a notch to take 2 of 3.

Why is the NL so bad right now? I think you're right, the Mets are the only team that seriously scares AL teams. Right now more of the talent, pitching and otherwise, seems to weight towards the AL.

2006-06-28 12:18:52
282.   LAT
The bigger question this weekend will be can a bad AL team kick the crap out of a league leading NL West team.

The Angels are playing the Padres? :-)

2006-06-28 12:19:56
283.   ToyCannon
All of the AL is celebrating that the Twins have a snowball chance of making the playoffs due to some bad moves at the beginning of the year by the GM. At least he learned and purged Batista and Castro, moved Liriano into the rotation, moved Lohse to purgatory, gave Kubel a job, gave Cuddyer a job and brought up Bartlett to man SS. Now they are a top 5 AL team but it is to late. Or maybe not, they are a very strong team right now and the Tigers could collapse but the WS won't so even if the Tigers collapse they will have to beat out the RedSox and NYY for the wild card. Could be done but the odds must be long.
2006-06-28 12:20:09
284.   StolenMonkey86
274 - Yeah really. He can't hit the two best lefty power pitchers in baseball. What a jerk.
2006-06-28 12:21:02
285.   LAT
280 the pitching matchups arent favorable I dont think.

Other than the Pirates, who do we match up favorably with? And I'm talking Major Leauge teams here.

2006-06-28 12:23:06
286.   ToyCannon
Vlady will choose this Friday to explode out of his slump as he puts the Angels on his shoulders and carries them back into contention along with one of the deepest rotations in baseball. JMO
2006-06-28 12:23:27
287.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have winning records against: Colorado, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and the Angels.
2006-06-28 12:23:55
288.   StolenMonkey86
Let's see what Hendrickson can do against Anaheim. And Bills has pitched in Angel land before.

Remember, after Nomar hit the grand slam vs Houston, he went 4-17, including 0-6 the next day. Don't worry about the slumps.

2006-06-28 12:24:21
289.   fanerman
8th inning rally?
2006-06-28 12:25:40
290.   scareduck
285 - I'd pay for front-row seats to see a Billingsley vs. Jered Weaver matchup. Too bad the Angels braintrust has decided against even the possibility of such a thing.
2006-06-28 12:26:06
291.   StolenMonkey86
yay bullpen! Kemp walks.
2006-06-28 12:26:53
292.   underdog
Woo hoo, the Twins should have taken Santana out innings ago!
2006-06-28 12:26:53
293.   Icaros
And I'm talking Major Leauge teams here.

That's too bad because I remember a while back we had a game with the Bad News Bears here and I thought our pitching matched up okay with theirs.

2006-06-28 12:26:57
294.   StolenMonkey86
290 - Yeah, they sent down their best starter. That is seriously hilarious.
2006-06-28 12:28:06
295.   JoeyP
Other than the Pirates, who do we match up favorably with?

Thats true. I was just thinking that when Penny/Lowe pitch in the same series, its favorable. Lowe could pitch Sunday, but he isnt scheduled to yet. I bet he will if the Dodgers lose the first two games.

2006-06-28 12:29:04
296.   StolenMonkey86
Olmedo, bases loaded. Here we go.
2006-06-28 12:29:07
297.   fanerman
Wow Jeff Kent struck out real fast.
2006-06-28 12:30:35
298.   Bob Timmermann
A Steve Lyons Special!
2006-06-28 12:30:53
299.   Bluebleeder87
Quality at bat by Almedo.
2006-06-28 12:30:54
300.   StolenMonkey86
Yay, we're in a position to give Nathan some work for the first time all series.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-06-28 12:31:41
301.   JoeyP
Big Sexy is a hitting machine.
All Joe Nathan fantasy owners give a shout out to the Killer Tomato!
2006-06-28 12:31:52
302.   underdog
Wheee! They're toying with our emotions, briefly getting our hopes up after we massively reverse jinxed them. At any rate, good to see they can still score. As everyone else here has pointed out, getting shut out against Santana is not something to be embarrassed about.
2006-06-28 12:33:48
303.   StolenMonkey86
My optimism will kick in as soon as Ethier or Drew pinch hits for Cruz.
2006-06-28 12:35:19
304.   bobbygrich
Rincon had not given up an earned run all year so that's something, considering Matt has not had any fun in the dome, working the count for a walk was a good thing.

Sure its not much but I think scoring those runs will make the plane ride a little less quiet.

Now if they can come back against Nathan.......

2006-06-28 12:35:47
305.   StolenMonkey86
Enter Saito. Grady thinks we can win this one.
2006-06-28 12:35:47
306.   bobbygrich
304 I meant Rincon had not given up any runs at home.
2006-06-28 12:36:39
307.   alex 7
and the other pinch hits for Izturis.
2006-06-28 12:36:44
308.   bobbygrich
I like the Saito move, shows that he also is concerned about work and with the day off tomorrow, no problem about rest.
2006-06-28 12:37:12
309.   Bluebleeder87
yeah I don't like it when the Dodgers play with My emotion either.
2006-06-28 12:37:31
310.   LAT
A questions I should know the answer to but not sure cause its AL stuff:

Why didn't Grady PH Drew or Nomar for Alomar and move the DH to catcher or bring in Hall (assuming he's with the team by now)? Can you move the DH to a position during the game? I would think so.

2006-06-28 12:38:21
311.   Bluebleeder87
if OP wouldn't have given up the other 2 runs, this would have been more interesting.
2006-06-28 12:40:41
312.   Bob Timmermann
310
Hall is not with the team.

If Martin were to come in to catch, then the pitcher would have to bat in Alomar's spot.

2006-06-28 12:40:41
313.   JoeyP
Alomar's hitting like .350
Maybe Grits really believes he's a .350 hitter.
2006-06-28 12:41:53
314.   JoeyP
No Joe Nathan today?
Interesting.
2006-06-28 12:42:31
315.   Bluebleeder87
The Giants got robbed (Liriano & Nathan)
2006-06-28 12:43:40
316.   JoeyP
I guess Gardenhire wants to get Juan Rincon some confidence rather than give Joe Nathan a cheap save.
2006-06-28 12:45:09
317.   JoeyP
Since Izzy's hot start, he's 2-20 with 0bbs.
2006-06-28 12:45:13
318.   alex 7
rincon is angry.
2006-06-28 12:45:51
319.   Icaros
Steve Howe autopsy news.

Unsurprising:

http://tinyurl.com/jk2hn

2006-06-28 12:45:59
320.   Bob Timmermann
Rincon is usually pretty angry.
2006-06-28 12:46:02
321.   JoeyP
Roid rage?
2006-06-28 12:46:04
322.   bobbygrich
Nathan is pitching, gameday did not make the change.
2006-06-28 12:46:17
323.   alex 7
so izzy is playing up to his potential now.
2006-06-28 12:47:04
324.   alex 7
thanks bobby. I'm asking for a refund.
2006-06-28 12:47:38
325.   alex 7
russell with a solid at bat, not surprising.
2006-06-28 12:47:55
326.   JoeyP
Russ Martin at least put up a fight.
2006-06-28 12:49:16
327.   alex 7
actually, Gameday shows Martin with an 11 pitch, 5 ball at bat finishing off with a K, so I'm clueless now.
2006-06-28 12:51:25
328.   Gagne55
That's five straight sweeps in AL ballparks going back to last year. Can the Dodgers when one in LA of Anaheim?
2006-06-28 12:53:03
329.   bobbygrich
So the Twins win and they gain nada, the Tigers shut out the Astros so the Twins will have their second best June ever and still be 11.5 games out of first.

Don't look now but the Tigers could be 30 games over .500, now I don't know what Elias will say but the odds have to pretty good that if you are 30 games over at the All-Star break, your chances of going to the post-season are pretty good.

2006-06-28 12:53:45
330.   Bluebleeder87
Karros was always a great interleague batter, maybe he should suit up when we do this interleague thing.
2006-06-28 12:56:13
331.   alex 7
save him for the world series.
2006-06-28 13:00:09
332.   JoeyP
Does everyone think the NL East is over?
Something about the Marlins makes me think they are going to make a run at the Mets. I remember in 2003 they were like 10-15 games under .500, then McKeon became manager, and they went like 73-48 the rest of the year. Granted, their pitching staff probably isnt as good now as it was then (Burnett, Penny, Pavano, Willis), but I think they have the youngsters to make a run this year.
2006-06-28 13:00:44
333.   Xeifrank
can't believe someone actually got a save in this game! vr, Xei
2006-06-28 13:13:43
334.   ToyCannon
332
I love the Marlin team but I don't think they can make a run at the Met's this year. Their future is oh so bright. No one else has the young pitching like Johnson, Olsen, Sanchez, Vargas, and Willis is no slouch though he isn't an ace he is still solid.

Any talk of them trading Miggy is crazy, this team will be breathing down the Met's neck next year at 1/8 of the salary.

2006-06-28 13:31:41
335.   blue22
They're 17-6 in June, yet still 12 back of the Mets (not to mention 9th in the WC, 5.5 out). They won't continue to be this good, and leapfrogging 8 teams in the Wild Card figures to be a tall order.

Pretty sure next year they don't get off to an 11-31 start though. Things are looking up in South Florida.

2006-06-28 13:39:28
336.   Bob Timmermann
At the All-Star break in 1993 (July 11), the Giants were 59-30.
2006-06-28 13:45:20
337.   blue22
336 - They also would've won the WC by 4.5 games over Montreal.
2006-06-28 13:52:22
338.   Bob Timmermann
The 1978 Boston Red Sox were 57-26 at the All-Star break.

I don't believe that ended well, but people don't talk much about that season.

2006-06-28 14:00:38
339.   Steve
Anybody in the mood for a rousing defense of Dan Kolb?
2006-06-28 14:13:41
340.   Sam DC
Unclutch walk-off homer for Alex Rodriguez at Yankee Stadium. A two-runner in the bottom of the twelfth, after the Braves had taken the lead in the top of the inning.
2006-06-28 14:14:13
341.   Sam DC
Cubs happy to have Derek Lee back too.
2006-06-28 14:17:23
342.   Sam DC
Like Steve said.
2006-06-28 14:19:52
343.   Sushirabbit
Echoing Sam in the previous comments, Rich Lederer is a treasure, like DT. Sometimes, rarely I must say, but seemingly more often lately, the comments don't do the place justice.
2006-06-28 14:20:09
344.   Steve
My favorite part was Henry Blanco's triple.
2006-06-28 14:20:40
345.   underdog
So, who will the Lakers draft tomorrow?
The kid from Cincinnati, who is very solid (James White), or someone else? It's a hard one to predict from top to bottom. I also like Cal's Leon Powe, who will probably be an early 2nd round pick. But the Lakers need a shooting guard...
2006-06-28 14:22:21
346.   underdog
I meant point guard above, obviously (I think they have a shooting guard, what's his name...)
2006-06-28 14:25:09
347.   Sam DC
Scott Proctor parlays his blown save into a win.

Over at Bronx Banter, commenter yankaholic says: "if this clip doesnt show up on Sports Center.. i will mow them down"

Because the Yankees have a lot of trouble cracking that media superfortress. Have the Yankees ever even been on Sportscenter, do you think?

2006-06-28 14:27:45
348.   underdog
347 I think they compete with the Red Sox for most clips on SportsCenter, so if they're not ahead of the Red Sox in that dept. they feel slighted. Poor bubbes. On the other hand, I'm kind of okay with them ignoring the Dodgers games this week.
2006-06-28 14:29:21
349.   Sam DC
348 You have a good point. Between the early start, Johannus Imperius Rex, and a slam for Torii, this will be the day the Dodgers get full coverage on Sportscenter and BB Tonight.
2006-06-28 14:31:52
350.   Sam DC
Meanwhile, we need to get back on our game. The kids at Bronx Banter have already put up 447 comments today.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-06-28 14:39:07
351.   Sushirabbit
Jon, just noticed the very up-to-date Payroll side bar! Thanks.

Also Dodger's are close to going over the 4.76 runs per game that you asked in your "5 Questions". We must be close HBT has 'em at 4.69 yesterday.

2006-06-28 14:44:37
352.   Sam DC
347 is wrong -- Villone came in and got the win. Can't believe it stood uncorrected for this long!
2006-06-28 14:46:33
353.   blue22
345 - The draft is today actually, right? And I honestly don't really care who the Lakers get unless they move up a good 15 spots. They need more than what they'll get at #26. Unless they trade Odom, it's more of the same next year...
2006-06-28 14:50:26
354.   Dane Bramage
I got questions:

Who's responsible for the advance scouting of AL teams' hitting for the Dodgers?

Who's responsible for the advance scouting of AL teams' pitching for the Dodgers?

Should whoever's responsible be sacked?

Does the Dodgers (and the entire NL, for that matter) woeful performance against the AL foretell another AL victory in the All-Star Game?

("You sure ask a lot of questions, for someone from New Jersey!" - Roseanne Rosannadanna)

2006-06-28 14:54:45
355.   the OZ
Sometimes I wonder if the AL wons the All-Star Game because they have 2 fewer teams from which to draw "mandatory" Lance-Carter-Style All-Star Players.
2006-06-28 14:55:11
356.   the OZ
Err, "wins".
2006-06-28 14:57:41
357.   Greg Brock
354 Richard Feder of Fort Lee, is that you?
2006-06-28 14:59:51
358.   bigcpa
Anyone remember this? From mlbtraderumors Jan 10th, 2006:

"These talks are still preliminary... Edwin Jackson and Dioner Navarro could go to Tampa Bay in a deal for Baez and Toby Hall."

These guys were clearly after Navarro and he should have netted Hendrickson straight up.

2006-06-28 15:00:41
359.   Steve
Bob, do you pray?

http://www.ken-jennings.com/blog/

2006-06-28 15:06:14
360.   underdog
353 Oops, my bad - the draft is indeed tonight. And you're probably right, with a fairly weak draft and a low first round pick it's hard to get excited. However, there are a few good players who will slide down to them, and they could still make out with a decent pick. A trade would be nicer but they don't have much to trade, that they'd want to.

I wish Bynum wasn't like 5 years away from helping.

2006-06-28 15:07:22
361.   ToyCannon
And this is why Mr. Bush got Kolbed. Cost me a win in 3 leagues.

Wise cut the middle finger of his pitching hand with a pair of salad tongs and will be unavailable for a few games.

2006-06-28 15:08:13
362.   blue22
360 - Strong talk about Garnett going to the Bulls today. Of course, that rumor is about 5 years old, but it looks like the pieces are in place (#2, #16, and Deng or #2, Gordon, and Deng).
2006-06-28 15:09:02
363.   StolenMonkey86
322 - you forgot Beckett.

The Marlins are a come from behind team, and the Mets are a team to blow it. But who knows.

I like how I mention trading for A-Rod because his stock is low in NY, and he hits a walk-off homer.

2006-06-28 15:14:12
364.   Greg Brock
363 A-Rod no, Tejada yes. He can be had, he can play third, and I'm sure the Orioles would take Izzy, Guzman, and another non-Kemp/Billz/Martin prospect.
2006-06-28 15:21:28
365.   ToyCannon
I used to be a big Tejada backer and I wanted us to sign him when he was a FA but his huge power slump last year in the 2nd half scared me cause it was right after the Rafy deal. I'm much to worried about his stats being inflated due to external factors to trade much for him. I'd move Izzy and Guzman and another C level prospect but that is about all I'd give up for him and I don't think the Orioles would be interested in that haul for him based on what they were asking this winter.
2006-06-28 15:24:50
366.   Greg Brock
What the Orioles want back for Tejada is based almost totally on how much the Dodgers are willing to take on (in terms of salary). Izzy and Guzman, plus DeWitt type prospect, Orioles pay a lot of salary. Izzy, Guzman, and a "C" level prospect, and the Dodgers take almost all his salary.

In any event, what the Orioles want depends on the salary split.

2006-06-28 15:27:03
367.   Sushirabbit
This is going to sound insane, but is there any chance someone is actually interested in Alomar? Like say Cleveland?

They are out of it. They have some starters the Dodgers might be interested in.

2006-06-28 15:29:05
368.   natepurcell
Cleveland fans want Billingsley for Cliff Lee. Billingsley's from Ohio so I can see why the fans like him.
2006-06-28 15:31:26
369.   s choir
367 Yeah Sabathia sure would be a nice pickup. It would probably win the NL West and would provide a nice 3-man rotation for the playoffs along with Penny and Lowe. Colletti would have to come up big to get him, I imagine. I think a lot of teams will be after him.
2006-06-28 15:33:22
370.   ToyCannon
367
Yes that is insane. Is that what happens when you eat to many raw rabbits?
2006-06-28 15:34:20
371.   s choir
368 If they only want to give up Cliff Lee, they must not like Billingsley that much.
2006-06-28 15:35:15
372.   natepurcell
368

I don't get it.

2006-06-28 15:36:23
373.   Greg Brock
There will be no discussions that involve the words "Trade" and "Billingsley," no matter how pie in the sky.

Thank you for your cooperation.

2006-06-28 15:36:28
374.   ToyCannon
Cleveland might deal Byrd but I doubt they are going to deal their future. Boone, Byrd, Belliard, Broussard, Blake, and Wickman are players that should find new homes soon, hopefully none of them here. Wow, lots of B's.
2006-06-28 15:38:49
375.   natepurcell
Blake is having a pretty darn good year though,
304/388/519 10hr

pretty darn good numbers. he has an option for next year too. I think he can play OF and 3b.

2006-06-28 15:50:19
376.   Bob Timmermann
Peter Gammons, before he took ill, mentioned in his blog, that the Indians "would like to move Aaron Boone" and he mentioned the Dodgers as a team that they would be interested in dealing with.
2006-06-28 15:51:31
377.   JoeyP
I'm worried we're gonna get a Kemp for Carlos Lee deal. Not that I wouldnt want Carlos Lee, but since he's a FA I'd rather just keep Kemp and sign Lee in the off-season.
2006-06-28 15:57:50
378.   natepurcell
377

We're not going to trade Kemp for Carlos Lee.

Guzman? Maybe...

2006-06-28 15:59:56
379.   Greg Brock
Kemp and Billz are about as close to untouchable as prospects get. Guzman, however, is perfect for a big deal.
2006-06-28 16:02:33
380.   natepurcell
Orenduff would be trade bait too. Too bad his elbow has partially self destructed.
2006-06-28 16:11:22
381.   s choir
Is anyone desperate for a closer? Perhaps we can get overpaid for Saito.
2006-06-28 16:13:37
382.   jystakes
381 Yeah, we are.
2006-06-28 16:15:15
383.   Steve
376 -- There can't be anyone in baseball that doesn't want to deal with the Dodgers.
2006-06-28 16:20:30
384.   Greg Brock
I'm loving the fact that right now, Stephen A. Smith is being his usual screaming idiot, and everybody else is basically ignoring him. It's got to be driving him nuts.
2006-06-28 16:26:57
385.   D4P
384
Does he still have his own TV show?
2006-06-28 16:28:27
386.   Greg Brock
That's a great question. As I make it a point to almost never watch ESPN (outside of PTI), I have no idea.
2006-06-28 16:38:20
387.   natepurcell
Andrea is now a rich man's name.
2006-06-28 16:39:58
388.   thinkblue0
jumping in late...but I'd be all for a deal with Guzman + whatever going for Carlos Lee.
2006-06-28 16:43:16
389.   Greg Brock
Nice to see the New Yorkers booing a nice kid from Italy for no apparent reason. Ah, druken idiot New Yorkers...As American as apple pie.
2006-06-28 16:44:30
390.   natepurcell
In my GM trade deadline sim thing, the Marlins GM has approached me with a willis deal. he wants the following:
Guzman + Elbert and one of the following:

Russel Martin
Andy LaRoche
Matt Kemp
Andre Ethier
Jonathon Broxton

what do you guys think? YOU ARE ALL MY SCOUTS.

2006-06-28 16:46:06
391.   Greg Brock
390 I'd go Guzman, Elbert, and Ethier in a heartbeat. But not a single other one of those kids. Well, maybe Broxton, but I'd prefer to give up Ethier.
2006-06-28 16:48:01
392.   natepurcell
391

I agree. That deal is tempting right now. But I have to look at the big picture. What is my outfield going to be next year? I am going on the assumption that my budget is right around 95 million or so.

2006-06-28 16:49:55
393.   Greg Brock
Your outfield will still be Kemp and Drew, and you can always get a semi-decent left fielder relatively cheaply.
2006-06-28 16:51:47
394.   natepurcell
hypothetical rotation

Lowe
Willis
Penny
Hendrickson
Billingsley

I like that if i can dump Odalis and Tomko.

2006-06-28 16:54:07
395.   Greg Brock
That's a very solid rotation. And if you can dump Perez and Tomko for some relief pitching, you could really bulk up the roster.
2006-06-28 16:59:58
396.   Blu2
390 If your name is Flanders you'll probably take, say 'thank you' and bend over...
2006-06-28 17:03:17
397.   Greg Brock
396 Care to elaborate?
2006-06-28 17:06:41
398.   Icaros
390

I wouldn't trade Guzman and Elbert alone for Willis.

Dontrelle is an average pitcher.

2006-06-28 17:08:15
399.   natepurcell
I'm probably not going to do it. I love Elbert too much.
2006-06-28 17:09:21
400.   Icaros
399

Good.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-06-28 17:10:11
401.   Greg Brock
398 So, you wouldn't trade a fourth outfielder and a positionless prospect with no plate discipline (and an unproven bat) for a left handed, 24 year old former 20 game winner that throws in the low to mid ninetees?

I would

2006-06-28 17:10:46
402.   natepurcell
I wanted Brandon Roy on the Lakers. Oh well.
2006-06-28 17:12:00
403.   Bob Timmermann
Bucs 2, White Sox 0 in the fifth.
2006-06-28 17:12:45
404.   natepurcell
401

Well I think Ethier is more then a 4th outfielder and he has tremendous value right now because hes a 300 hitting player that is 24 yrs old and making pennies for the next 3-4 years.

Guzman has "potential" still and I dont want to be that idiot that traded away Guzman and it just clicks for him and he becomes juan gonzalez.

2006-06-28 17:12:51
405.   regfairfield
Willis scares the crap out of me. Not only does he not have great strike out or walk rates, his success last year seems to come from a huge drop in home runs, but he's already almost matched last years total (11 vs. 10).

The other thing about Willis is that his comparables are mainly guys that started out hot, and flamed out quickly.

Jim Abbott, Steve Avery, Dick Ellsworth and Ismael Valdez all started out with great careers, then flamed out by the time they were 27. There are a couple of non flameouts in his top ten (Mark Buerhle and Jim Kaat) but for the most part, it consists of guys who had a couple of good years in their early to mid 20s, then were done. Willis is probably fools gold, and whoever gets him is going to regret it.

2006-06-28 17:16:29
406.   Greg Brock
I agree that Willis may not be the greatest in the world, but Eithier is a corner outfielder without pop or speed. Guzman has never really stood out at any level, and has only been touted because of his "tools." To compare him to Juan Gonzales is pretty optomistic.
2006-06-28 17:17:10
407.   ToyCannon
Sounds like fun Nate, must have started when I skipped Sickels site for a week.
The deal that Brock suggested is okay but I'd rather you move some of our position kids for their young but major league ready pitchers. You can probably get Vargas cheap, but anyone of Vargas, Olsen, Sanchez would be nice. The Marlins will still need a 2nd baseman when the real Uggla shows up in the 2nd half. Otherwise they only need an outfielder to go with Hermida/Willingham. Whatever you do don't trade Carlos Santana:)

What are the GM's for the Brewers asking for C Lee and the Nationals for Soriano?

2006-06-28 17:18:33
408.   Icaros
401

You wrote:

you wouldn't trade a fourth outfielder and a positionless prospect with no plate discipline (and an unproven bat)

But I wrote earlier:

I wouldn't trade Guzman and Elbert alone for Willis

If you're asking me if I'd trade Ethier and Guzman for Willis, my answer is of course. I said I didn't want to trade Elbert and Guzman for Willis.

2006-06-28 17:19:48
409.   natepurcell
407

Brewers GM says he isn't selling at the moment and Im scared to ask the Nats GM what he wants for Soriano especially when he just offered me Ramon Ortiz for Kuo.

2006-06-28 17:21:10
410.   Greg Brock
408 Understood. But I think you found a way to go back and retroactively edit your post to make me look bad.

Or I misread it. I'll take option #1.

2006-06-28 17:21:20
411.   ToyCannon
What a weak draft. Glad the Clipps are sitting this one out.
2006-06-28 17:24:35
412.   Greg Brock
Wherever Rudy Gay goes, it's a fair assumption that he will have the lowest jersey sales in the NBA.
2006-06-28 17:27:35
413.   ssjames
412 His jerseys could sell very well in the Bay Area.
2006-06-28 17:27:44
414.   Bob Timmermann
Touch 'em all, Jeromy Burnitz.

Bucs lead 3-0 in the 6th!

2006-06-28 17:31:10
415.   Icaros
410

I only wish I had that kind of power.

I just don't want to trade any top pitching prospects ever. They flame out so often, and are so hard to come by, I want to amass as many as I can get.

Developing pitchers from within is the only way to go these days. Free agent pitchers who are terrible get millions, and trades for good pitching seem to have just ceased.

Has a pitcher as good as Brad Penny been acquired through trade since DePo acquired Penny? I can't remember one.

2006-06-28 17:32:48
416.   natepurcell
I am close in my quest to acquire the Giganator. I think we need a C to go along with our PF in Hendrickson.
2006-06-28 17:34:31
417.   ssjames
415 Depends on whether you consider Josh Beckett to be as good as Penny. He is at least as talented, although he is hurt a lot more.
2006-06-28 17:38:46
418.   ssjames
415 Other possibilities are Javier Vazquez (twice traded), Adam Eaton, Chris Young or Randy Johnson.
2006-06-28 17:40:27
419.   Icaros
417

Yeah, I'd count Beckett, and the White Sox got Vazquez. Braves got Hudson.

Still not easy, and usually pretty costly prospect-wise.

2006-06-28 17:42:13
420.   Steve
TINSTATAPP
2006-06-28 17:43:49
421.   Icaros
420

I've never been told what that stands for.

2006-06-28 17:44:41
422.   ssjames
There Is No Such Thing As a Pitching Prospect
2006-06-28 17:46:48
423.   Steve
There Is No Such Thing As Trading A Pitching Prospect
2006-06-28 17:47:30
424.   Icaros
422

Okay, but they come from somewhere.

2006-06-28 17:48:21
425.   ssjames
423 So that's what the other T was for.
2006-06-28 17:48:48
426.   Icaros
423

Meaning don't ever do it, or don't hesitate to do it?

2006-06-28 17:49:27
427.   overkill94
There's a Jae Seo sighting in Florida. And for his first trick, he struck out old friend Cody Ross!
2006-06-28 17:50:34
428.   ssjames
424 I am not saying I agree with it, in fact, I don't but lots of people are highly wary of pitching prospects, because they flame out so out. I think the moral is not to rely on pitching prospects, because there aren't as likely to develop as hitting prospects are.
2006-06-28 17:50:34
429.   Steve
The former. I can imagine doing so, but not with, just to use a hypothetical example, Tampa Bay.
2006-06-28 17:50:36
430.   overkill94
and for his second trick, a double to Hermida!
2006-06-28 17:57:12
431.   overkill94
Ahhh, that's the Seo I remember, bases loaded and one out after a double and two walks.
2006-06-28 17:58:11
432.   overkill94
Good lord, how many trades can you have in one draft? Did anyone draft someone they're going to keep?
2006-06-28 18:00:08
433.   Icaros
428

I know they flame out often. That's why I want even more Scott Elbert's and less Pat Mahomes's in my minor-league rotations.

As far as not relying on them, like I said, the good ones come from somewhere. Why not play as many lottery tickets as you can?

2006-06-28 18:00:18
434.   overkill94
Awww, lame, he got out of it by inducing a fly ball double play, thus removing my starter (Olsen) after only 82 pitches and preventing him from getting the win. I still hate you Jae Seo!
2006-06-28 18:04:24
435.   ssjames
433 Rely in my post meant that you should not assume they will all develop and trade off other useful parts, with the assumption that the pitching prospect will come in and succeed, which is why you need a lot of pitching prospects, but you have to be ready for lots of them to fail.
2006-06-28 18:07:36
436.   Icaros
435

Right, like lottery tickets, most pitching prospects will bust. That's why you should buy as many as you can if you're trying to actually win the lottery.

2006-06-28 18:15:40
437.   ToyCannon
Don't discount Chris Young, he is the reason the Pod's are in 1st place. No one mentioned David Bush who is quietly having a solid year. His peripherals are very strong for such a young pitcher. He's a solid number 3 type pitcher the kind I'd love for the Dodgers to get a hold of. That is why I hold the Brewer GM in such high regard. He flipped his average 1st baseman for a 3rd starter, a nice pitching prospect, and a solid 4th outfielder. Trade like those I fear will never be part of Ned's legacy.
2006-06-28 18:17:49
438.   JoeyP
Well I think Ethier is more then a 4th outfielder and he has tremendous value right now

Whats the difference between Andre Ethier and Cody Ross?

Keep in mind that the Dodgers basically released Cody Ross. If they cant get anything for him, why would you expect Ethier to hold any value to them?

2006-06-28 18:21:19
439.   D4P
438
For one thing, Flanders traded for Ethier, while Ross was already here. That appears to make a big difference these days.
2006-06-28 18:23:05
440.   Steve
Since my entire existence is bound up in waiting for the various crap we insist on accumulating to fail, the hope of having a 22 year old taking the mound with even a mere prayer of more than fake and fleeting success is practically mindblowing, and certainly worth more than 500 appearances by Tampa bay's entire garbage scow of a pitching staff.
2006-06-28 18:27:23
441.   ToyCannon
Some interesting comments from Jim Callis during his ESPN Chat that are Dodger related:

Mike A. (SD, CA): Hey Jim, not counting all the guys in the bigs who are still prospect eligible (i.e. Billingsley), who's the best pitching prospect left in the minors? Hughes? Bailey? Sanchez? Thanks.

SportsNation Jim Callis: Sanchez just went up the other day and pitched well agains the Yankees. Unless I'm missing someone, I think it's Philip Hughes. Bailey is in the running, and don't forget about Scott Elbert.

Charlie (NYC): Jim, what do you think of the way Billingsley has pitched so far. Also, what are your comments on the Hendrickson trade.

SportsNation Jim Callis: Billingsley has looked like a lot of rookies . . . Even if they're highly touted, they tend to nibble a lot and don't trust their stuff entirely against the best hitter they've ever seen. He'll be fine in the long run. I don't think either side will gain anything significant in the trade, but Hendrickson has been pitching a lot better than Seo and will help this year in the NL West race.

mike (la): better career:martin or navarro?

SportsNation Jim Callis: Russell Martin, by far. Like him a lot and I see Navarro as a backup.

2006-06-28 18:28:09
442.   JoeyP
Cody Ross- 25yrs- .289/.348/.530 in 83ABs
--Rated by some as the best defensive CF'er in the Dodger system (when he was there)

Andre Ethier-24yrs- .323/.375/.485 in 130Abs.
--Not a CF'er

I guess Ethier is slightly more proven, but I dont really see much of a difference in these players.

If one was released, why would the other one hold so much more value?

Furthermore, why is one thought of as a fringe player while the other is "more than a 4th Of'er"?

2006-06-28 18:29:22
443.   ToyCannon
From BA Chat with Jim Callis, Dodger related stuff:

Mike A. (SD, CA): Hey Jim, not counting all the guys in the bigs who are still prospect eligible (i.e. Billingsley), who's the best pitching prospect left in the minors? Hughes? Bailey? Sanchez? Thanks.

SportsNation Jim Callis: Sanchez just went up the other day and pitched well agains the Yankees. Unless I'm missing someone, I think it's Philip Hughes. Bailey is in the running, and don't forget about Scott Elbert.

Charlie (NYC): Jim, what do you think of the way Billingsley has pitched so far. Also, what are your comments on the Hendrickson trade.

SportsNation Jim Callis: Billingsley has looked like a lot of rookies . . . Even if they're highly touted, they tend to nibble a lot and don't trust their stuff entirely against the best hitter they've ever seen. He'll be fine in the long run. I don't think either side will gain anything significant in the trade, but Hendrickson has been pitching a lot better than Seo and will help this year in the NL West race.

mike (la): better career:martin or navarro?

SportsNation Jim Callis: Russell Martin, by far. Like him a lot and I see Navarro as a backup.

2006-06-28 18:31:42
444.   ToyCannon
442
Marlins evidently feel he is more then a 4th outfielder as he's now starting on a semi-regular basis and could be very regular soon.
You were right about Ross, we gave him away much to cheaply.
2006-06-28 18:32:08
445.   ToyCannon
Maybe you'll also be right about Navarro.
2006-06-28 18:35:07
446.   D4P
If one was released, why would the other one hold so much more value?

I understand your logic. The problem is, Flanders isn't using any. Choi and Ross were "Depo's guys." They thus had no value.

2006-06-28 18:39:50
447.   overkill94
For one thing, we actually had too many players earlier in the year, so Ross was a victim of the numbers. He went cheaply because the Dodgers had absolutely no clout. Plus, Ethier had a standout 2005 minor league campaign followed by an outstanding AFL so his stock is on the way up while Ross' had stagnated going into this year.
2006-06-28 18:43:38
448.   overkill94
444 When your alternatives are Reggie Abercrombie and Joe Borchard (another guy they got off waivers) you can't brag too much.
2006-06-28 18:52:55
449.   bobbygrich
446 Ross is on his third team this year and Choi is in AAA.
448 I agree.

Its not as if there are a bunch of former Dodgers blowing up for other teams, if this has something to do with the money there has been no evidence that any player movement has been premediated by any salary considerations.

445 He gets two walks and suddenly he was let go too cheaply.

Another thought, Buster Olney from espn.com wrote today that he thought the Dodgers got a steal of deal.

2006-06-28 18:54:49
450.   regfairfield
449 Buster Oleny thought that Cesar Izturis was indespensible and that productive outs were the key to winning ball games.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2006-06-28 19:09:28
451.   Steve
Ramon Martinez : Lucille II :: Buster Olney : Buster
2006-06-28 19:09:35
452.   trainwreck
Wow, Farmar is a Laker.
2006-06-28 19:10:54
453.   Greg Brock
Yes sir. Lakers got Farmar!
2006-06-28 19:12:30
454.   overkill94
Well, at least I know the Lakers' draft pick well. I don't follow enough non-PAC-10 basketball to know a lot of these guys.
2006-06-28 19:13:52
455.   D4P
Given Phil's alleged penchant for "big guards," I'm a little surprised they picked a 6'2" guy.
2006-06-28 19:16:06
456.   bobbygrich
Portland is making a whole bunch of deals.
2006-06-28 19:34:22
457.   Andrew Shimmin
So now the Lakers have one guy who won't pass, and one guy who, while amenable to doing it, is really, really bad at passing. That should work out.
2006-06-28 19:40:35
458.   underdog
I thought Farmar was a really good passer and playmaker? Or who are you talking about?

Anyway, here's one scouting report on him:
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/37829

Btw, the ESPN analysts are all ripping on Portland for making a bunch of moves "they didn't have to" but I think they're being ridiculously unfair. They just got a bunch of great players in the first round without having to give up that much. Getting Brandon Roy alone, one of the few players in this draft I'd call a "can't miss" - one of my faves in this draft - that alone makes it a good draft. I honestly don't know what they're talking about.

2006-06-28 19:43:11
459.   underdog
(Okay, taking Joel Freeland from England was a major reach for Portland, but I like the other guys...)
2006-06-28 19:43:27
460.   Greg Brock
The Trailblazers Got Aldridge AND Brandon Roy, and gave up a major headache in Telfair. Who cares what Stephen A. Smith thinks about anything? That guy is a caracature and a joke, and part of the reason why I almost never watch ESPN.
2006-06-28 19:45:28
461.   thinkingblue
Does anyone else notice that Matt Kemp quivers and flys open with his front leg when batting?
2006-06-28 19:48:01
462.   Andrew Shimmin
458- Well, I should probably not say anything, given I know so little about basketball, but watching several UCLA games this year, he threw the ball away a lot. At least, it seemed like he did.
2006-06-28 19:49:34
463.   Underbruin
Farmar's not as good a fit for the Lakers as it might seem on first blush. Though he's a phenomenal passer, he often chooses to play offensively on his own for some reason. Though only the 3rd-most effective offensive player on the Bruins this past season (behind Arron Afflalo and Luc Richard Mbah a Moute - I love that name), he took the most shot attempts. Though admittedly part of that was due to the Ben Howland preference for playing a slow, methodical offensive game, which periodically ended with the ball in Farmar's hands and the shot clock running down.

I think, though, that under Phil Jackson's tutelage he could become a very useful point guard off the bench. He doesn't really have great scoring ability (it was okay in college but he'll struggle mightily against the bigger, faster players in the NBA), but his ball-handling skills are solid and he's good enough at driving-and-dishing that he'll create some easy basket opportunities for Mihm/Brown.

2006-06-28 19:55:15
464.   Underbruin
462 - Many of the 'turnovers' attributed to Farmar were really caused by Ryan Hollins and Michael Fey, as well as Alfred Aboya to a lesser extent. None of the three have particularly good hands (with Fey being the worst offender of the group) and many a time I've cringed as a very nice pass proceeded to bounce right off their fingertips out of bounds.

He does periodically try to do too much, but UCLA was lacking somewhat in offensive options this year with no real back-to-the-basket threat and their best shooter, Arron Afflalo, having problems with streakiness. He'd try to overcompensate with an attempt at some brilliant move. Additionally, he was given to a bit of overconfidence in his creative options because UCLA's defense was so dominant this past season - a turnover in attempting to create a basket was often a worthwhile attempt because any created points were much more likely to stand up (see UCLA's Elite 8 and Final 4 games, where they held very respected athletic and offensive teams to less than 50 points - the E8 game being against Memphis which just had 2 players go in the 17th and 18th spots).

2006-06-28 19:56:07
465.   Greg Brock
463 Farmar had lower efficiency because, as you stated, he was stuck with the ball as the clock ran down (to a point of infuriation for me)and had to jack up some bad shots. But he can be more than a bench player. Now that he won't be the emphasis, he can work on his jump shot (which has good form, but just needs to be tweaked), and give Kobe some time off the ball. He'll get open looks when Odom has the ball or Kobe gets doubled, he'll just need to knock them down.

Hell, he's already better than Smush Parker.

2006-06-28 19:59:22
466.   Suffering Bruin
Cool. I get to post after Underbruin.

My thoughts: Farmar could not be going to a better system provided Phil remains. He took a lot of shots last seasons because he was the "clock is running out so somebody shoot" guy. That's my impression, at least.

As for the Dodger trade, I can only echo what so many have said previously. To paraphrase DeNiro as Al Capone: "We got nothing. Nothing!"

2006-06-28 20:00:00
467.   Suffering Bruin
465 beat me to it and with better analysis to boot.
2006-06-28 20:03:32
468.   Underbruin
465 - I hope you're right. I'm about as big of a Bruin fan as there is (see: name), but I think he'll struggle a bit in the NBA. He may eventually make it to the starting lineup, but I think Smush is a lot faster than Farmar is, with a better ability to finish around the hoop.

Jordan's a far better passer, though, and if he can get that jumper more consistent could emerge as a dangerous player. However, he is only 6'2" (and that with the usually-generous basketball measurements for guards - if Allen Iverson is 6', I'm 6'7") and will be playing against far more athletic defenders against whom his stepback and crossover won't be nearly as effective. Those double-teams will be key, as will his ability to hit well early.

I think Luke Walton is a probable good example as to what could happen - Walton was a brilliant playmaker in college who could hit a jumper and pass effectively, but once he got to the pros those passing lanes were clogged and he had to rush his shot or risk being blocked. Farmar probably will do much better with the ball in his hands without being the main focus of the opposing team, but needs to find a way to let the offense come to him instead of forcing the issue (which was a tendency he had in college, shot-clock inefficiency or no).

2006-06-28 20:07:15
469.   natepurcell
Can Farmar play defense? Smush is HORRIBLE defender. Flat out, one of the worst defenders I've ever seen.
2006-06-28 20:07:19
470.   Underbruin
465 466 - That having been said, I hope you're both right, and I'm just being a bit of a downer because I'm a bit sad to see the (very talented and very bright) kid leave early with a great chance to make a Final 4 repeat run (solid incoming kids, an extra year for the frosh, and Josh Shipp back - why nobody even seems to remember this guy is beyond me, during the summer in workouts he was schooling some NBA guys, according to a few folks I talked to who watched him...).

I agree that he'll probably flourish under Jackson's system, and additional time in the weight room will most likely be a huge boon (he made a ton of progress from freshman year to sophmore, despite having to deal with the pressures of being a student).

And hello there, Suffering Bruin. Are you as jacked up for September as I am? As much as I loved Drew Olson (the senior version), it's Ben Olson time! =P

2006-06-28 20:08:57
471.   JoeyP
Farmar isnt a bad pick but I question whether he has the quickness to guard the other team's PG. I was hoping for Rondo or Williams, but since no other good PGs were there I cant really complain.

He gets two walks and suddenly he was let go too cheaply

If you are a 22yr old catcher, .740 OPS in the majors, and are traded for Mark Hendrickson, then its being let go too cheaply.

I think you guys are missing my point. I'm not saying Cody Ross is good. In fact, I dont think he's anything more than a 4th/5th OF'er. However, his skill level is about the same as Andre Ethier. So therefore, if Ross isnt any good, how could Ethier be? Thats my point.

Nate's been talking up Ethier about as much as Canuck talks up Loney, and taking others to task that want refer to Ethier as a 4th Of'er. Well my point is if Cody Ross is (and I think most here would agree he his), then Andre Ethier must be too.

2006-06-28 20:12:35
472.   Greg Brock
Farmar is an excellent defender. He might not be fast, but he's got extremely quick first couple of steps.

And he's a Bruin, which automatically makes him a splendid human being.

2006-06-28 20:13:11
473.   natepurcell
By talking up Ethier, you mean, saying he could be a solid 3rd outfielder then sure I am talking up Ethier. I never said he is going to be a star but he is a fundamentally sound player who can be a solid role player on a team.

And I was one of the people that thought letting Cody Ross go was a mistake but should we compound that mistake by not giving equal value to Ethier as well?

Andre Ethier has a better chance of becoming a solid 3rd outfielder then Justin Orenduff has becoming a #2 pitcher.

2006-06-28 20:14:14
474.   natepurcell
472

Well if he can defend, then he is already better then Smush Parker. That was basically the biggest problem for the Lakers last year; dribble penetration defense.

2006-06-28 20:14:50
475.   Underbruin
472 - And he's a Bruin, which automatically makes him a splendid human being.

I like the way you think.

Ah well, time to go now, just thought I'd pop in and make a couple notes on JF. Hope everybody's night goes well.

2006-06-28 20:16:48
476.   natepurcell
Honestly, You can call these players 4th outfielders all you want, but hold off until they start playing like 4th outfielders. Right now they are performing, and I hate to pigeon hold players because of reputation when they are playing better then that.
2006-06-28 20:19:45
477.   sanchez101
Good news and bad news for Vero Beach; Elbert got the loss, but struckout 13 in 7 2/3 innings with 1 hit and 4 walks. DeWitt also took 4 walks in 5 PA's with no hits. Elbert's numbers right now after 79 2/3 IP:

2.49 ERA 6.2 H/9 10.5 K/9 4.3 w/9 .45 HR/9

That homerun rate is excellent considering his home park, hes allowed just 1 homerun on the road all year and 3 in more than 40 innings at home. He just needs to get the walks down, but his stuff indicators are top-shelf.

2006-06-28 20:20:53
478.   D4P
Regarding Farmar's defense (from the scouting report in 458):

Farmar's second biggest weakness is his defense. He only possesses average length and lateral quickness and therefore struggles to stay in front of quicker opponents.

Regarding being a "good passer": can someone explain to me why there is so much variation in passing ability? To me, what can be easier than simply throwing the ball to someone? You see them, you throw it. What's the big deal?

2006-06-28 20:21:03
479.   natepurcell
Elbert had a good game today.

7.2IP 1H 1ER 4bb 13k 7gbo-3fbo

ERA for the season is 2.49

pretty solid year for Elbert. He'll probably be a top 40 prospect by the end of the year.

Dewitt with 0-1 with 4bb

2006-06-28 20:22:28
480.   natepurcell
To me, what can be easier than simply throwing the ball to someone? You see them, you throw it. What's the big deal?

court vision and anticipation. You first have to find the open person and you have to put the ball in a place that the defender cant get it and that your teammate can actually do something with it.

2006-06-28 20:22:50
481.   regfairfield
Ethier's recent numbers in the minors are quite a bit better than Cody Ross'
2006-06-28 20:23:12
482.   sanchez101
478. ya, and hitting is pretty easy, all you do is see the ball and hit the ball
2006-06-28 20:24:02
483.   Suffering Bruin
My man Icaros posted this earlier about Steve Howe's autopsy:

http://tinyurl.com/jk2hn

Not wearing a seat belt and he had meth in his system.

Dammit.

2006-06-28 20:25:40
484.   natepurcell
477

You beat me to it with more info too. I read an article a couple weeks ago saying that the key for Elbert is that he has developed his changed up that he isn't afraid to throw at any count now.

2006-06-28 20:27:13
485.   Suffering Bruin
470 thanks for the shoutout. Yeah, I'm pretty pumped for the coming season. I'll send an e-mail soon and we'll have to organzie a few game outings.
2006-06-28 20:31:41
486.   sanchez101
484. thats awesome about Elbert's change, have you heard anything about his FB velocity? Looks like Johnson had another nice start, at his age he could be really interesting, hopefully he will be starting in Columus next season. Do you know what kind of stuff he throws? It seems pretty dominate so far.
2006-06-28 20:31:47
487.   natepurcell
Dewitt has a total of 33bb on the season in 284ABs. Last year, Dewitt had 34BB in 481ABs in columbus last year.

That is the type of improvement that bodes well for future success.

2006-06-28 20:34:58
488.   natepurcell
486

When he was pitching in the FSL all star game for an inning, his fb velocity was 94-95.

as for Johnson, this is what Canuck posted on the scout.com prospect thread.

Johnson the Younger (as opposed to Blake, the Elder) has a 90-91 MPH fastball, a plus curve, a cutter, and a change-up. He is extremely polished for his age, with great control and command, but his ceiling might not be too high with his ordinary fastball. He could be a #3 starter if he stays on track. Johnson the Elder and Johnson the Younger are actually very similar to each other, scouting wise, but the Elder is taller and has more potential for getting stronger, while the Younger's polish really sets him apart from the Elder and most other pitchers in our system.

2006-06-28 20:39:54
489.   JoeyP
And I was one of the people that thought letting Cody Ross go was a mistake but should we compound that mistake by not giving equal value to Ethier as well?

Of course not.
However, I dont think learning from past mistakes is one of Ned Colletti's attributes.
So holding out hope that Ethier is a bargaining chip, seems wishful thinking considering Colletti's dumped similar players for nothing.

2006-06-28 20:42:27
490.   natepurcell
However, I dont think learning from past mistakes is one of Ned Colletti's attributes.

I agree on that point.

2006-06-28 20:43:40
491.   D4P
The Lakers' 2nd round pick is 7'1", and weighs 195.
2006-06-28 20:43:50
492.   JoeyP
Ethier's recent numbers in the minors are quite a bit better than Cody Ross'

Thats true but it could in part be caused due to Cody Ross' prior injuries. I think Ross' ability to play CF makes him a more valuable prospect. But at this stage, Ross/Ethier really arent prospects anymore considering their ages.

2006-06-28 20:44:38
493.   natepurcell
491

He's a pick for the 2013 playoff run. duh.

2006-06-28 20:49:38
494.   sanchez101
491. If he was a pitcher, he'd be as projectable as they come
2006-06-28 20:56:44
495.   natepurcell
http://tinyurl.com/mweaj

Here is the Elbert article if anyone wants to read it.

2006-06-28 20:57:44
496.   Steve
491 -- Ned Colletti always says you can't teach height.
2006-06-28 21:17:04
497.   Steve
FTOGS is in rare form in Henson's game story today. The Scott Erickson Defense figures prominently.
2006-06-28 21:23:53
498.   natepurcell
"If we run into any of these clubs in the World Series, we've got 'em right where we want 'em," Little said. "They'll come into that series totally overconfident."

Grady is awesome.

2006-06-28 21:32:29
499.   Uncle Miltie
Farmar is an excellent defender.
No he's not. Defense is one of the worst parts of his game. He has amazing court vision and is an excellent ball handler. He has great passing skills and he's an above average scorer for a point guard. That said, he's turnover prone, mediocre defensively, and needs to work on his outside shot. His upside is Mike Bibby like.

If Phil Jackson wasn't the Lakers coach then I would love this pick. Since he is, it's not a good pick. If Farmar wasn't a local kid, they wouldn't have picked him.

The guy who would have been a perfect fit for the Lakers is Maurice Ager. He's 6'4, strong, very athletic, and an excellent outside shooter. He's a really underrated player and would have been a great fit for the Lakers.

Still, the Farmar pick is much better than James White (the guy who the Lakers were going to take) who I don't think is going to be a very good NBA player.

I love the Diaz pick by the Clippers. The guy is one of the best athletes in the draft. He is a very explosive player.

2006-06-28 21:33:12
500.   Steve
I liked that line too.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2006-06-28 21:53:27
501.   Andrew Shimmin
Odalis calling out Kent is great. It's worth losing the game, just for that. I hope Simmers starts quizing him on scouting reports, before future games.
2006-06-28 21:55:11
502.   Andrew Shimmin
Simers, even. Sports Journalist of the Year Simers.
2006-06-28 21:57:50
503.   ToyCannon
477
What was the bad news?
2006-06-28 21:59:26
504.   ToyCannon
For Uncle Miltie:
http://www.clippertalk.net/
2006-06-28 21:59:54
505.   natepurcell
bad news= elbert and VB got the loss

also, I think his high walk rate isnt exactly bad news, but its not good news either.

2006-06-28 22:03:22
506.   ToyCannon
We care about losses???
2006-06-28 22:03:32
507.   natepurcell
oh wow, Elbert was 4 outs away from a no hitter.

http://tinyurl.com/g9e7r

didn't even realize that.

2006-06-28 22:05:40
508.   Uncle Miltie
504- naw, I don't really like message boards. Just blogs (DT and the Griddle and Sickels site).

Toy- what did you think of what the Clippers did? I love the Diaz pick, but I don't like Davis.

2006-06-28 22:13:20
509.   entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
489 - If you have some special insight into the Colletti's negotiation process and into his player evaluations, please do share. If you dont, your just being speculative, sarcastic, and cranky because Colletti didnt make the move YOU would have made.

I thought these discussions were about trying to see things from another point of view. Instead, all that happens are that people with opposing viewpoints and methods get putdown and insulted.

Couldn't it be possible that maybe Ned Colletti and his assisstants know a little bit more than you about his players than you do. Afterall, you're the one commenting on message boards, and hes the one sitting in an office making decisions.

Get off your high horse JoeyP. You dont know everything. Your just a backseat driver commenting on players you read about on the internet with statistics you invented to prove your point.

Try looking at the bigger picture.

2006-06-28 22:14:50
510.   natepurcell
from a scout on the perfectgame message board..

*With the acquisitions/trade deadline nearing,
I would do everything in my power to protect LHP Scott Elbert because I am here to attest to the fact after seeing him in each of his last 8 appearances that he is the REAL DEAL and could be used RIGHT NOW in middle relief in Los Angeles. His 95-96 FBs with command on changeup and breaking pitches make it near to impossible to hit! He has shown this to several special assignment folks the past couple of weeks and I would venture to say all of those teams are thinking along the same lines I am so please please take this in a good intentioned nature because it's my job and responsibility to report to all 30 teams. Peace, Shep*

interesting, he really likes elbert i guess.

2006-06-28 22:35:47
511.   JoeyP
Instead, all that happens are that people with opposing viewpoints and methods get putdown and insulted.

How can you make this complaint, and then go ahead and say the following:

Get off your high horse JoeyP. You dont know everything. Your just a backseat driver commenting on players you read about on the internet with statistics you invented to prove your point.

Hypocritical, no?

Sadly, I havent pulled statistics out of thin air. They are available for all to see, which is why some of us have a hard time following Ned Colletti's logic.

Whats wrong about asking questions to things that dont make sense to me?

2006-06-28 22:37:38
512.   thinkingblue
Oh P, what did Odalis say after his latest disaster?
2006-06-28 22:40:52
513.   thinkingblue
"If we run into any of these clubs in the World Series, we've got 'em right where we want 'em," Little said. "They'll come into that series totally overconfident."

Grady is awesome.

Pretty much. Grady is the best. You find yourself laughing after series where you get ourscored 23-7.

2006-06-28 22:52:48
514.   jtshoe
509/511 Nothing like good philosophy humor on a baseball board. Not much funner than an Ockham fan commiting an ad-hominem & begging the question, while complaining about others. LOL
2006-06-28 22:53:42
515.   Steve
The only reason this much time should be spent on Mark Hendrickson, Toby Hall, Cody Ross, the Korean Jeff Weaver, or FTOGS, is in a thread called "DFAs and their mothers that love them."
2006-06-29 00:21:28
516.   Eric L
Couldn't it be possible that maybe Ned Colletti and his assisstants know a little bit more than you about his players than you do. Afterall, you're the one commenting on message boards, and hes the one sitting in an office making decisions.

This reminds of a quote I read from a horror film director. The movies he has written and directed have been beyond horrible. Anyways, he basically said that unless a person has directed a movie, they aren't allowed to criticize a movie.

Of course, there is a huge problem with the statement. The director knows way more than I do about what it takes to make a movie. He knows the process better, how to finance the movie, write the script, and all that other jazz. That said, it doesn't make him a better judge of a good or bad movie than I am. He just has more insight into the film making process.

Likewise, Ned knows way more about the inner workings of baseball than any of us on this board. He knows what a pain in the behind dealing with agents can be. He knows how much it stinks to make decisions about the 40 man roster. He knows the office politics of the Dodgers better than you or I. There are alot of things that Ned knows way more about making a team than anyone on this site does. The man has worked in baseball a long time and he certainly has a better idea than we do.

That being said, his experience and insight doesn't shield him from criticism. Just because he makes the decision doesn't make a trade good or bad.

2006-06-29 00:43:54
517.   entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
516 Criticizing a move is one thing. But repeatedly saying that Ned "hasnt learned from his mistakes" and that he "clearly doesn't look at peripherals like BAPIP and K/BB." Do these people have any idea what went on during negotiations between the two teams? Do they have any real idea what other offers Ned has made/received? of course not. The stuff they hear is all water cooler material.

Criticize the ends, be my guest. I guess I'm just a little ticked that so many people jump all over the means when they have so little insight into what they really are.

514 Replace the "k" with a "c" and remove the "h."

2006-06-29 00:54:31
518.   entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
BTW, Im no huge Ned fan. I think Depodesta's methods were much more conducive to creating a winning ballclub.

I just dont share the same doomsday predictions as so many here. Swapping back-up catchers while adding a replacement level pitcher is not going to be the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. The team has greater needs. Is Navarro going to be more valuable than Hendrickson in the long run? Probably. But a decent starting pitcher is much more valuable to THIS team, especially with Martin playing well and not likely to leave for a while.

Good trade? Bad trade? Its definately debateable. Horrendous trade? Definately not.

Criticize the trade, by all means. I just think its innapropriate and adds so little to an argument when people continue to harp on Ned's managerial process when they dont really know what went on during negotiations.

2006-06-29 01:02:31
519.   entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
514 Nevermind. Its spelled both ways.
2006-06-29 01:47:00
520.   Andrew Shimmin
The, "you're not a GM so stop pretending to know everything," complaint was brought up a couple threads down. I still think it means much less than those who wield it must think it does. Do you think any of us don't know that JoeyP isn't a GM? Or that I'm not? We're all amatuers, so, caveat emptor. Also, it's fairly easy to skip over the posts of any commenter who bothers you. This is advice I should follow for myself, though, so, there you go.
2006-06-29 01:49:39
521.   natepurcell
Well I am actually a GM so "HA" on everyone on else.
2006-06-29 01:59:02
522.   Andrew Shimmin
Also, this:

I thought these discussions were about trying to see things from another point of view. Instead, all that happens are that people with opposing viewpoints and methods get putdown and insulted.

isn't fair. There were many viewpoints expressed (opposing is tricky, as there were more than two positions taken), and while it wasn't all tea and crumpets, and even if you think not all the commenters played fair, more did than didn't. Jon prominantly featured David Pinto's theory that Hendrickson actually is a decent pitcher (an assumption I notice you were happy to state, if not defend). Anyway. If you don't think any particular theory got enough consideration, run it back up the flag pole. But don't lambaste some one else for failing to take a position he doesn't hold.

2006-06-29 03:44:55
523.   Blu2
Like most people here I did not like the trade and I vented on Flanders for being an idiot. And I probably won't ever change my mind on that part. But after reading everyone else's thoughts and lamentations on it, I came to the same conclusion a lot of others did: It was a non-event and didn't change the teams fortune one iota. And since I plain don't like Flanders, I'll criticize him for doing this useless manuver. This like the Furball signing falls strictly in the "I'm shaking the bush, Boss" catagory, a whitewash job to make McCourt think he's working hard. Did I mention I don't like Flanders????
2006-06-29 04:03:07
524.   Andrew Shimmin
Over 207 ABs in Cincinnati, Scott Hatteberg is hitting:.290/.400/.440

That's surprising.

2006-06-29 05:02:24
525.   Sam DC
I see at Rob's site that the Suns have sent the most players to the Southern League All Star game of any team in the league. I find that happy/amazing given the number of players that have moved on to AAA or the pros from last year's championship team.
2006-06-29 05:02:57
526.   Sam DC
I guess it's not accurrate to say moved on to the "pros" since the Suns are a pro team. The majors, rather.
2006-06-29 06:44:19
527.   Sam DC
Don't see this linked above; sorry if I missed it.

Your 2006 USA Today Prep of the year:

http://tinyurl.com/qgbvl

2006-06-29 06:52:50
528.   Claire Malone-Evans
The Toby Hall era begins tommorow. He is getting no respect. Hall throws out 35% of base stealers and strikes out less than 9% of the time. He has some of the same skills as Johnny Bench has... of course Johnny is 60 years old now.
2006-06-29 07:00:10
529.   Andrew Shimmin
527- Kershaw and Mattingly have been properly indoctrinated in the Dodger way: both picked the Babe over Bonds. Adrian Cardena had no opinion as he hasn't, "followed either of their careers."
2006-06-29 07:03:02
530.   Andrew Shimmin
I don't think backup catchers get to have their own eras.
2006-06-29 07:03:47
531.   Sam DC
Nadal down 2 sets - 0 to an American named Robert Kendrick. On ESPN right now.
2006-06-29 07:27:22
532.   D4P
Hall throws out 35% of base stealers

I'd rather he get on base 35% of the time.

2006-06-29 07:29:55
533.   Sam DC
Wow -- I don't know if folks have the means to see it, but Kendrick just made the most incredible diving volley to win his six game of the third set -- now into tie breaks.

Sports I watched a lot when a kid that I rarely watch now: Tennis, Boxing, Pro Basketball.

2006-06-29 07:34:05
534.   Sam DC
Nadal ran away with the tiebreak so it goes to a fourth set. Agassi a game away from a straight sets win - would love to see him make a run.

Signing off now.

2006-06-29 07:35:52
535.   D4P
Tennis is one of my favorite sports to watch. I heard Agassi got a number of questionably favorable calls in his favor the first few sets.
2006-06-29 08:18:35
536.   Vishal
much as i like to root for the american and the underdog, nadal is my favorite tennis player currently, and one of the few who actually has a shot at beating federer, so i'm rooting for rafa. it looks like kendrick doesn't have anything left in the tank, so if he loses this set (he just got broken), it should be over.
2006-06-29 10:24:41
537.   thinkblue0
so what did Odalis say about Kent? I missed it.
2006-06-29 10:33:58
538.   Greg Brock
But he let the ball bounce past him, he said, expecting to see second baseman Jeff Kent shaded up the middle. Kent raced to his right and made a diving stop but had no play.

"If Kent would have been in another position, he might have made the catch," Perez said.

He suggested the coaches should have moved Kent from where a second baseman traditionally plays. According to the Dodgers' scouting reports, Perez said, Morneau loves to hit the ball into center field. According to the chart of Morneau's ground balls on mlb.com, Kent could have been shaded slightly — but not markedly — up the middle.

2006-06-29 10:40:22
539.   Blu2
Odalis is toast. Kent will put the word out to lose him. Wonder if we can get another Ethier out of the deal?
2006-06-29 10:43:39
540.   Icaros
538

I think it would be fair to point out that in the same article Perez admits that he himself didn't hustle for the grounder in question, and that it was ultimately his fault that no play was made.

He thought the coaches should have shaded Kent over, but Kent wasn't to blame.

2006-06-29 10:48:29
541.   Icaros
Wonder if we can get another Ethier out of the deal?

I just hope we don't have to package Ethier with Perez to get some team to take him off our hands.

2006-06-29 10:56:49
542.   underdog
536 Did you call me?
;-)

Speaking of Scott Elbert, so... do we expect he'll be moved to Jacksonville soon? Seems like it's about time to move him on up (but to Vegas, where many a pitcher's hope and dream has been crushed like their change-ups)

2006-06-29 10:57:19
543.   underdog
542 "(but not to Vegas," I meant of course.
2006-06-29 10:58:12
544.   underdog
541 I think we may have to, unless we do DFA him and eat his contract. Who is going to take him straight up?

Er, okay, maybe the Yankees. He's better than Erickson, anyway.

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