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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Padres Hire DePodesta
2006-06-30 12:16
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Former Dodger general manager Paul DePodesta has joined the Padres as Special Assistant for Baseball Operations, reporting to CEO Sandy Alderson. Thanks to reader DaveP for the link.

I can only imagine the reactions coursing through the veins of different Dodger fans. Yikes. Hope everyone stays cool. It's a new horse, so let's not beat the dead one.

I will note that the hiring reunites DePodesta with Dave Roberts!

Comments (164)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-30 12:20:47
1.   Eric Enders
I was assuming DePo would go back to the A's soon enough, but I guess we should have seen this possibility considering the Alderson connection.

This is going to be one tough division over the next decade. Looks like it'll be four promising younger teams and one perennial last-place Giants club.

2006-06-30 12:22:53
2.   Robert Daeley
Should we start a "Hee Seop Choi in Petco" countdown? Too soon? (Sorry couldn't resist ;D)
2006-06-30 12:23:02
3.   Suffering Bruin
It's a new horse, so let's not beat the dead one.

As if we would do such a thing.

:)

2006-06-30 12:25:47
4.   Kayaker7
2 HSC's been terrible in AAA thus far. About to reach the Medoza line, after two months of slumping.
2006-06-30 12:27:07
5.   bobbygrich
You may not be able to view this because it is an old espn insider story but DePo teaming up with Alderson makes sense.

"Alderson was a newcomer to baseball– he had argued a few arbitration cases for the A's as an attorney, but had no other industry experience. (He was hired full-time by team president Roy Eisenhardt simply for his pure intelligence, which, thanks to Alderson's future success, has gone from blasphemous to commonplace.)

Alderson had read Bill James' then-obscure Abstract and was encouraged by the rationality they contained. A former Marine infantry officer who served in Vietnam – he had such a steely look that a recruitment poster with his picture asked for a few good men like him – Alderson was drawn to the dispassionate logic with which baseball could be analyzed.

"I'm sitting there, an outsider to baseball, and I have to develop a philosophy, a basis for decision making," Alderson said. "I was searching around for ideas. I was ripe for these kinds of things."

http://tinyurl.com/jep2d

2006-06-30 12:32:37
6.   JoeyP
It makes sense for DePodesta because Alderson is taking the same concepts he developed in Oakland is applying them to San Diego. Drafting College players, building from within with more 3TO hitters.

Its a good move for both parties.

2006-06-30 12:33:20
7.   D4P
What exactly does a "Special Assistant for Baseball Operations" do? In particular, does s/he have any influence on player evaluation?
2006-06-30 12:34:06
8.   DaveP
7 - waits in the wings for Kevin Towers to leave at the end of the season.
2006-06-30 12:36:36
9.   Kayaker7
7 Sounds like a consulting job, like what Bill James does for the Redsox.
2006-06-30 12:37:32
10.   Eric Enders
7 Whatever the GM tells him to do, basically. It varies from team to team. It's sort of a catch-all title.
2006-06-30 12:40:58
11.   scareduck
8 - I don't think so. I really believe that Towers is in for the long haul, unless Alderson wants to be a GM again. It would be very hard to say no.

Interesting that the Matt Bush fiasco happened and then the Padres hired Sandy Alderson the next year. No way that happens now.

2006-06-30 12:41:11
12.   JoeyP
Alderson is Kevin Towers' boss.
Alderson just brought in one of his old friends.

If I were Towers, I'd feel a little pressure.

2006-06-30 12:41:15
13.   bobbygrich
Before everyone starts worrying, the Padre's farm system is not great, their number one prospect has some injury issues. That said, it will be interesting to see how it plays out, the only expensive deals past this year are Giles and Hoffman. Klesko, Park, Cameron, Castilla, Piazza and Estes are all free to go after this year, of those, I guess Cameron would be the most likely to stay.

Now they have signed all of their top 10 picks from this year and they have signed something like 25-27 players all together we'll see how it works out.

I think the thing they have to figure out is why the club can't draw like it did when the park opened even though they have been in contention for the last couple of years.

2006-06-30 12:42:42
14.   Sam DC
I'll stay cool and all, but wwwaaaahhhh! I'd like to root for DePodesta, not have him contributing to a division rival for gosh sakes.

No fun at all.

2006-06-30 12:46:03
15.   regfairfield
Fortunately, the Padres are a huge mess, so it might be a while before we have to worry. Outside of a few players (Peavy, Young, Barfield) the Padres are either over the hill, or not very good. Since they also lack a farm system (going by BA's top 100 prospects) they're going to collapse very shortly.

DePo will probably be able to help rebuild the team, but the Padres won't threathen us for at least a couple of years.

2006-06-30 12:47:31
16.   jasonungar05
At least he wasn't hired by the Giants.
2006-06-30 12:49:04
17.   DaveP
11 - Did Towers get a contract extension? I found this from the '05 off season when there were rumors Towers would be considered for both the Boston and Arizona GM positions:

"Alderson is very much a hands-on baseball man, and it was clear Towers would not enjoy the same autonomy he once had. So, even though he has a year left on his contract with San Diego, he was given permission to interview for the Arizona job."

I'd say there is a pretty good chance that Towers is not Alderson's man in San Diego.

2006-06-30 12:50:57
18.   bobbygrich
11 I think Alderson would have wished they could have traded that pick down to get more picks. That said, Verlander or Jered Weaver might look good in San Diego right now.

I went back and looked at the Bush debacle and decided that Duck was right, it would not happen today.

2006-06-30 12:52:55
19.   dzzrtRatt
16 To me, there's no difference. Giants, Padres...a two-headed hydra.

Oh well. I'll just have to hope that Bill Plaschke was right about him all along.

The real winner in all this will be Scott Erickson. He'll pitch great in Petco.

2006-06-30 12:56:18
20.   GoBears
Blechhhhh
2006-06-30 12:59:16
21.   Blu2
1 Don't fprget the 'South Giants' Flanders will turn the Dodgers into. San Diego will do anything to irritate the Dodgers. They haven't forgotten the big-mouthed retard, Kevin Malone.
2006-06-30 13:00:30
22.   Blu2
4 Izzy and Odalis for HSC.
2006-06-30 13:03:55
23.   D4P
I will note that the hiring reunites DePodesta with Dave Roberts!

If we didn't have so many outfielders, I wouldn't be surprised if Depo's Padres were to trade Roberts to the Dodgers, getting much more in return than he got from the Red Sox the first time he traded Dave.

2006-06-30 13:06:21
24.   dzzrtRatt
As Richard Alatorre used to say, "that was then, this is now." Ned is our ex-Giant. DePo is one of them.

Really, the DePo love around here was highly predicated on the theory that he would bring sabermetrics into Chavez Ravine. The fact of DePo's reign does not comport with the myth or the promise. He brought a little bit of saber-thinking, but not so's you notice all that much, and not that much more than Colletti, who doesn't talk the talk but seems to walk the walk. DePo screwed up royally not tossing Tracy out on his ear much earlier. As an executive, that was a major mistake, which the goings-on in Pittsburgh only underscore. Tracy was garbage, but DePo thought he'd be a nice guy and give him a chance. Suicidal blunder.

The main thing DePo did right was avoid trading key prospects. Colletti has hardly deviated from that plan, which I think is in fact McCourt's plan. McCourt wants a cheap, first-place team.

2006-06-30 13:07:55
25.   D4P
I only hope Depo learned his lesson, and that he starts mingling with more than 1 or 2 people at Padre holiday parties.
2006-06-30 13:14:11
26.   Rich Lederer
This is going to be one tough division over the next decade. Looks like it'll be four promising younger teams and one perennial last-place Giants club.

Yeah, the Giants are really going to miss Colletti!

2006-06-30 13:15:21
27.   dsfan
15--

Reg, if I recall, in March you were very pessimistic about the Padres' chances this year and down the road. I disagreed strongly on both scores, and still do.

Their evaulation skills are respectable. So are their developmental skills. Frankly, they are smarter about finding and developing pitchers than the Dodgers are.

Look at the young pitching: Peavy is 25. Young is 27. Hensley is 26. Not shabby. Combined, those three are making about $2.8 million. The everyday talent isn't great, but they have a pretty fair young nuclues with 1B Gonzalez (24), 2B Barfield (23), SS Greene (27) and OF candidate Johnson (25). As a whole, the team's run-suppression talent is strong.

As for their farm system, the Athletics of Alderson and Fuson developed processes that worked. There are signs some of that success is being replicated and the Padres probably have more money to spend than the A's did. Depo should help.

2006-06-30 13:15:54
28.   fanerman
Bad news. Man.
2006-06-30 13:21:15
29.   TheDictator
I better become a Padres fan before the Colletti turns the Dodgers into the Giants of the SoCal. IMO, he is well under way . . .
2006-06-30 13:23:23
30.   TheDictator
Would a moneyball type of approach work at Petco? The outfield is so big that they would have to have someone who can chase balls down in the alley. It seems that Petco is a perfect pitching and defense type of park. Just ramblings . . .
2006-06-30 13:25:35
31.   scareduck
24 - DePodesta does not make the Navarro trade. No way, no how.
2006-06-30 13:27:30
32.   the OZ
I had a chance to meet Sandy Alderson earlier this year and was very impressed. From a eladership perspective, he is everything that the McCourts are not. The Padres could become quite good once they get rid of Towers. Alderson is a very capable guy and I can see why he'd want to have DePodesta around. When DePodesta was intially fired by the Dodgers I feared he would end up in San Diego, and it finally happened.

I spoke with a former Angels team President recently who said that Sandy Alderson is the best and brightest executive he'd ever met.

A year and a half ago, I would have bet the Dodgers would go on a Braves-like run because of their stocked farm system and disciplined management, plus the idiocy of the Padres and Giants. Then, the Dodgers got dumber and the Padres got smarter with Alderson and now DePodesta.

I worry.

2006-06-30 13:27:49
33.   bluetahoe
Look for the Padres to plummet, efective immeditaely. LOL.
2006-06-30 13:28:39
34.   the OZ
31 Which is funny, because DePodesta DID make the Navarro trade :)
2006-06-30 13:29:02
35.   D4P
31
Nor does he make the Baez trade. (First) Seo trade? Maybe...
2006-06-30 13:30:19
36.   regfairfield
27 I'm not sold on that young nucleus outside of Barfield. Greene recieves a ton of hype but he was only good in his rookie season, and since then he's been a .300 on base, .415 slugging shortstop with a career 90 rate2. Ben Johnson's hype seems to come from one year in AAA but hasn't but up a good enough OBP in the bigs to be considered a starter. Gonzalez has the "Loney Jr." tag on him, and without attempting to raise the ire of Canuck, let's just say that doesn't impress me.

While the Padres do a better job of evaulating pitching talent than the Dodgers, who doesn't? Who was the last starter the Dodgers developed? My memory might be failing me here, but I think the answer is Chan Ho Park.

I really don't have much clue about the Padres farm system, I'm just going by what BA tells me, and they say they have less top end talent than almost any other team in baseball. While they may be good talent evaluators, they have to acquire that talent first, and that can take years. The Padres may be building towards something, but their goal is still years away.

2006-06-30 13:32:49
37.   Eric Enders
36 Good post, although I'd submit that Gonzalez is more Loney Sr. than Loney Jr.
2006-06-30 13:36:51
38.   scareduck
36 - concur. And, the Pads' minor league system is full of cottage cheese as far as the eye can see.

I find it interesting that the Angels' hitters, braised in the thin air and small parks of the PCL, Texas League, and Cal League, all have stumbled in the Show, while it seems like the reverse is largely true for the Dodgers' pitching prospects.

The A's AAA park at Sacramento has very similar park factors to their home in Oakland; I wonder that this is even considered when teams look for minor league affiliates.

2006-06-30 13:40:27
39.   Eric Enders
38 It's probably only considered by teams like Oakland.

Incidentally, why is the Cal League a hitter's paradise while most MLB parks on the West Coast are hitters' graveyards? (Dodger, Petco, SBC-or-whatever-it's-called-this-week, Safeco, Oakland)

2006-06-30 13:43:22
40.   the OZ
37 The Padres farm system has nothing. Nothing at all. I think they rate inthe bottom 3 of MLB.

They chose local Mission Bay HS SS Matt Bush when they had the #1 overall pick in 2004 out of signability concerns, yet gave him a $3.15M bonus anyway, passing on Verlander ($3.12), Humber ($3M), Niemann ($3.2M), Little Weave ($4M), and Stephen Drew ($4M). Admittedly, the guys I compare him with signed Major-League deals worth more than just their bonuses so the bonuses alone aren't the best point of comparison, but the differences aren't too huge.

Bush also hasn't OPSed above .600 at any level in appx 2 full minor league seasons. To give a small guy like that $3.15M when for an additional, say, $2M you can have a Verlander or Stephen Drew?

Decision-making of the caliber exhibited in the 2004 draft is why their system is awful.

2006-06-30 13:45:39
41.   Greg Brock
Matt Bush is probably going to be the second worst number one overall pick in draft history.

Ask Yankees fans who #1 is.

2006-06-30 13:46:50
42.   regfairfield
41 He got hurt, what's Bush's excuse? Josh Hamilton ending up in the pokey might be a close second.
2006-06-30 13:49:46
43.   Greg Brock
Taylor's bust status went waaaayyyy beyond a bar fight injury. The guy had almost no baseball IQ, was a horrible athlete, and could do nothing but stand on a mound and throw hard in high school.
2006-06-30 13:52:36
44.   Jon Weisman
41 - A-Rod?
2006-06-30 13:53:18
45.   Greg Brock
44 Yes, Jon. A-Rod. LOL.
2006-06-30 13:55:27
46.   Eric Enders
The human story behind 41:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-taylor060506&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
2006-06-30 13:55:31
47.   JoeyP
Bryan Bullington hasnt exactly worked out that well for the Pirates.
2006-06-30 13:57:52
48.   regfairfield
43 It's tough to say, yes the guy was absolutely terrible (I love the career 16.3 BB/9 ratio), but at least he got the injury. Matt Bush just stinks, without the injury.

When there is nothing positive to say about either player, I've have to go with the one who didn't get hurt.

2006-06-30 13:59:29
49.   dsfan
36-38,

Reg, trusting BA's top 100 is not a great way to evaluate a rival's farm system and perhaps led you astray in March and again now. Tiny example: Hensley wasn't even ranked among San Diego's top 10 prospects last year (probably wasn't among their top 20)and played a role in their winning the NL West.

K. Greene, for the dollar, is still a solid value. I'm far more partial to Dewan's defensive ratings, so my defensive valuation is gong to be higher than the one you're using.
He's definitely outfielded Furcal this year for $12.6 million less in salary. He's also outslugged him. And as you stated, this isn't his best season. His rookie season was pretty special. Anyway, reliable SSs who are cheap and can slug are a good thing. Not many out there.

Comparing Adrian Gonzalez to Loney vastly understates what Gonzalez has done, is doing and will do. He's hit 11 home runs as a regular at Petco this year. How many HRs does Loney have at Vegas? Gonzalez is 24, cheap, showing pretty good power, a good glove.

2006-06-30 14:00:05
50.   regfairfield
47 But at least he's touched the majors.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-30 14:00:54
51.   scareduck
39 - the Cal League's parks are mostly in the desert; dry air hates pitchers. Also, the parks are small from what I've heard, and minor league parks aren't necessarily kept in the best shape, leading to "interesting" fielding conditions.
2006-06-30 14:03:10
52.   Eric Enders
41, 48 Taylor was nowhere near as big a bust as Matt Bush. He posted a 2.57 ERA in his first pro year with 188 Ks in 161 innings. The next year he went 13-7, 3.48. Bush, meanwhile, has shown no promise whatsoever.

It ain't the same ballpark as Bush. Heck, it ain't even the same #### sport.

2006-06-30 14:07:15
53.   the OZ
51 I've read that humidity has no effect whatsoever on the flight of a baseball. When none of the Padres could hit HRs at PETCO in 2004, a local physicist write a column about why in their awful local newspaper. Supossedly, it's about temperature and wind patterns more than anything else, plus altitude. Most of the desert parks are at least a few thousand feet in elevation and have warmer air, and possibly wind patterns that favor hitters.

PETCO, Dodger Stadium, and Telecommunications Company Park are all essentially at sea level, and SF and SD have somewhat cavernous dimensions to boot.

Humidity may have some effect on the reactivity of the ball itself, but has no effect on its flight once hit.

2006-06-30 14:09:23
54.   Eric Enders
52 "I've read that humidity has no effect whatsoever on the flight of a baseball."
------------

That is extremely false, at least if you believe Robert Adair in "The Physics of Baseball."

2006-06-30 14:11:52
55.   the OZ
54 Can you provide there a link somewhere? I'd like to read about it, and haven't read Adair.

I'll try to find a link to the article I referenced.

2006-06-30 14:13:59
56.   StolenMonkey86
"The San Diego Padres announce a trade with the Boston Red Sox. The Padres will send LF Dave Roberts for 1B Hee Seop Choi."

Give it a couple weeks

2006-06-30 14:15:40
57.   Greg Brock
52 Part of the magnitude of a "bust" is the hype that surrounds said prospect. Brien Taylor was being called the greatest prep pitcher in history.

While it's tremendously unfair to put such pressure on a young kid, then label him as a "bust" when his talent doesn't match expectations, much of it goes beyond empirical data. I can't think of a single draft pick in my lifetime more heavily publicized than Brien Taylor.

2006-06-30 14:15:45
58.   Eric Enders
55 Actually, I'm not sure whether I got that from the book itself or from an interview I did with Adair a few years ago. In any case, I don't have a link.
2006-06-30 14:16:15
59.   regfairfield
49 Wow, didn't even realize that Gonzalez had done that well, I apologize for that. He can count as part of the young core.

Depending on how Dewan rates Greene, I might be more confident in him, but he has to get back to somewhere near his rookie level production. But he had a low line drive percentage (18.6) coupled with a high (.313) BABIP, suggesting that a lot of little grounders found holes. I don't know if he can get enough hits to raise his on base.

As for the farm team, I just took at glance at it and from what I saw, it's not good. AAA is filled with major league rejects like Jack Cust and Bobby Hill with only one pitcher of note, Cla Meredith, who works out of the bullpen. AA has some decent players, but no one that looks to be able to be a big contributer anytime in the near future. Of course, I just glanced at this, so I could have easily missed something.

While I do like the Padres a little more now, I don't see how they can compete with the Dodgers and the Diamondbacks any time soon.

2006-06-30 14:16:47
60.   Eric Enders
57 Valid point, but if you're taking their relative hype into account then Taylor is a clear #1 and Bush is nowhere near #2.
2006-06-30 14:18:18
61.   Eric Enders
Anyone know what the various defensive metrics say about Greene? He sure looks good out there, but looks can be deceiving.
2006-06-30 14:19:47
62.   D4P
"The San Diego Padres announce a trade with the Los Angeles Dodgers. The Padres will send LF Dave Roberts for 2B Willy Aybar."

Give it a couple weeks

2006-06-30 14:21:17
63.   scareduck
54 - I read Adair, too, and remembered that, but a couple of online sources say that air viscosity is directly proportional to density; water molecules are less dense than either oxygen or nitrogen, so balls should fly further in humid locales than dry ones! I'm sure somebody from the SABR physics group could get back to us on this.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/baseball/howfar3.html

2006-06-30 14:22:03
64.   Eric Enders
62 Can't we just give him Henri Stanley back?

Wait, I guess we don't have him anymore. How about Tydus Meadows?

2006-06-30 14:22:37
65.   Jon Weisman
61 - In Dewan's book, Greene was a -16 in 2005, 28th among 32 shortstops ranked.

"Greene is a very good defender despite having only average range and arm for the position. He has superb instincts, always positions himself well and has a quick release that makes up for his lack of arm strength. He is also very smooth turning double plays. His 2004 rating (-4) is probably closer to his true talent level than 2005's. And take a look at that home/road split (-15 at home, +1 on the road). There may be park effects involved that we don't yet understrand."

2006-06-30 14:25:30
66.   scareduck
61 -- Rate2 says he's a well-below-average shortstop, and hasn't topped 92 in any season with an adequate number of chances to judge.
2006-06-30 14:27:16
67.   the OZ
54 I found an article explaining factors that affect the flight of golf balls. If we assume that the effects are the same for baseballs, we can gather that:

(1) Altitude/air density makes the lion's share of difference in ball flight

(2) Higher humidity actually should increase the distance a ball flies for two reasons - H2O vapor is lighter than N2 and O2 molecules and causes the air to be less dense than dry air, and more humid air resists cooling and therefore stays warmer longer.

So, it would seem that you are correct and that humidity does indeed matter, but high humidity would seem to make the ball travel farther than drier air. So, humidity is bad for pitchers.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the article I'm quoting from memory. Given the point about humidity above, perhaps the author was implying that humidity isn't a factor in preventing home runs at PETCO (since higher humidity air is actually less heavy than dry air) and I took that to mean "humidity doesn't affect a baseball.

I don't vouch for the veracity of the source, but here's a link:

http://tinyurl.com/emarw

2006-06-30 14:29:25
68.   Eric Enders
65 Interesting. I always thought Greene's arm looked pretty strong myself.
2006-06-30 14:30:50
69.   the OZ
Regarding Greene, he's not awful. Just vastly overrated as a result of his stellar amateur career and the fact that he has to dive a lot to make plays because his range isn't very good. He hits for good power at SS, if nothing else. He just needs to make contact more often. I would expect a combination of his bat and glove to be about average for an NL shortstop.

Also, he's the current team captain of the Reggie Cleveland All-Stars. That's got to count for something.

2006-06-30 14:31:02
70.   Blu2
I hope the Pads do trade for Choi. I'd love to see the big fella on TV every now and then and cheer for him to do well, but not against us.
2006-06-30 14:33:12
71.   Eric Enders
69 I think Minnesota's Lew Ford is on that team as well.
2006-06-30 14:34:30
72.   Blu2
Has anyone considered the likelihood of any Dodger officials jumping ship to work with Depo again? Logan White and Kim Ng come to mind, maybe some others. Somehow I don't see Flanders wanting to stop them, he probably already has some old Giant buddies in mind for jobs as soon as he has an opening...
2006-06-30 14:37:31
73.   Xeifrank
does that mean DePodesta will no longer get paid for this year and next by the Dodgers?
vr, Xei
2006-06-30 14:39:03
74.   scareduck
It's official: Jeff Weaver has met his DFA.

http://tinyurl.com/znuyy

2006-06-30 14:39:48
75.   Greg Brock
How is it the Reggie Cleveland All Stars, and not the Lamar Hoyt All Stars?

Either is great, but Lamar Hoyt...

2006-06-30 14:44:12
76.   StolenMonkey86
62 - Now that you mention it, our leadoff man to shortstop ratio is hurting.
2006-06-30 14:44:41
77.   Blu2
73 I would imagine that is negotiable to some extent. Depo has contract, say $300,000 to be paid to him if he doesn't accept a position with another club. If he takes the job, he loses the money. But what if he goes to McCourt and says for half the money I'll let you out of the rest of the contract. McCourt saves half the money (or whatever) and gets Depo off the books and out of the team Rolodex. It's called cutting your losses and getting closure. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
2006-06-30 14:46:38
78.   the OZ
75 Speaking of "Either is great," new friend Andre Ethier makes the squad, too.
2006-06-30 14:48:41
79.   the OZ
77 I believe the two parties did reach a buyout settlement, which puts both DePodesta and Los Angeles Dodgers, LLC off the hook for the terms of the contract.

McCourt saves some money, and DePodesta can go work somewhere else if he wants to.

2006-06-30 14:48:51
80.   dsfan
65, 69

I also found it interesting that Dewan described Greene as a very good defender, even if Dewan's numbers suggest he's below average. That's one of the things I like about Dewan. He understands the limitations of both subjective analysis, and defensive metrics.

On balance, I'd give Greene a solid grade defensive, while factoring this season into the grade.

2006-06-30 14:50:56
81.   Eric Enders
72 Both White and Ng predated DePo with the Dodgers and presumably have no particular reason to want to follow him around. DePo's friend Roy Smith may be another story however.
2006-06-30 14:51:08
82.   the OZ
This is an awful story, but I admit I found this sentence somewhat amusing:

"Authorities were trying to determine if the heads found Friday belonged to two decapitated bodies also discovered Friday dumped in a vacant lot..."

http://tinyurl.com/gkcm3

2006-06-30 14:51:09
83.   Jon Weisman
Quote:

Adam is an upright, honest young man who naturally draws people to him, while Charles has an angry, violent spirit. Charles tries in vain to earn the love of his father, and takes his anger at his failure out on Adam. Adam is sent by his father into the army as a sign of his love, but Cyrus keeps Charles close to home, knowing that war would release something dangerous and violent in his other son.

Adam wanders for many years across the country after his service, and some of the most lyrical passages in the book describe his life as a tramp, closely mirroring Steinbeck's own experiences during the Depression. Finally he returns to the farm and exists in uneasy partnership with Charles until the mysterious Cathy arrives. The more astute Charles quickly realizes her true nature, but innocent Adam marries her and they move to California. ...

Endquote.

So really, "The Weavers" is not an East of Eden story. It's an original tale, perhaps not stranger than fiction, but still strange.

2006-06-30 14:53:03
84.   LAT
Man, you spend one morning working and you miss all the news. In a red hot second I would take a $150K flier on Jeff Weaver.

As for Depo, I guess if you can't get Giles to come to you, you go to Giles.

2006-06-30 14:53:55
85.   Greg Brock
I think the Weaver situation looks like more of a Sonny/Michael deal to me.

Hothead older brother self-destructs
Cooler, calmer younger brother carries the flame.

No Weavers can be Fredo, because Jae Seo is Fredo.

2006-06-30 14:55:39
86.   Eric Enders
"You broke my heart, Seo. You broke my heart."
2006-06-30 14:56:53
87.   Sushirabbit
38 Yep. With the recent questions about Honeycutt, it is interesting to note that he was the director of minor league pitching. I have some questions about him, too. Since I'm from Tennessee I was excited about him becoming the Dodgers Pitching coach. I guess, what people look for is for some loser to come in and get turned around, maybe like people think Mazzone did at Atlanta. But they did get some good folks there and compare Mazzone at Atlanta to Mazzone at Baltimore. Still I haven't seen anything that great that you could say was done by Honeycutt.
2006-06-30 14:58:20
88.   the OZ
Maybe "The Weavers" [working title] should be an adaptation of "Up in Smoke" or "Friday".

"Backdraft" has some themes that might translate well. Except that Kurt Russel died a hero, and Jeff Weaver got DFA'd.

With the DFA, Jered just went from "Jer. Weaver" to "Weaver" on ESPN's ticker.

2006-06-30 14:59:19
89.   D4P
84
Regarding Giles:

SLG%
Dave Roberts: .432
Giles: .385

Has Giles' name ever come up in discussion of steroids/HGH/etc.?

2006-06-30 15:00:15
90.   Greg Brock
Just proves my theory that every single situation in life can be analogized through baseball or The Godfather.

In this case, baseball is being analogized through The Godfather.

2006-06-30 15:04:16
91.   the OZ
89 MLB can't really test for HGH. So if he ever used it, he could still be using. Not that I'm accusing.

Maybe it's just because he's getting old and plays in a huge ballpark at sea level? Sometimes players just decline. It happens.

2006-06-30 15:04:21
92.   Jon Weisman
85 - Very good.
2006-06-30 15:09:18
93.   Suffering Bruin
Does anyone--I mean anyone have biographical information on Logan White? Where he came from, what school he went to, etc?

An inquiring mind wants to know.

2006-06-30 15:14:46
94.   scareduck
87 - but at least nothing terrible has happened. IIRC Jim Colborn had Oliver Perez tinkering with his mechanics this spring, and he just got optioned to AAA Indianapolis. That's about as bad an outcome as you can imagine.
2006-06-30 15:16:49
95.   scareduck
93 - White was a crosschecker for the Orioles prior to his stint with the Dodgers:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/columnists/040224callis.html

2006-06-30 15:18:18
96.   Suffering Bruin
95 thanks for that.
2006-06-30 15:18:24
97.   LAT
Cause I am so rarely right about anything baseball. I am especially proud of the last sentence. Of course, the Angels just bypassed the bullpen option. (Although I shouldn't be calling attention to my semi-violation of the profanity rule.)

2006-02-07 15:54:1367. LAT
65. The point you raise about playing in LA, IMO, applies more to Jeff Weaver than anyone else. When Beltre left he didn't know if he could play elsewhere (softball here for Steve). Weaver has already tried and failed in another league and city. It is a fact there are certian places he can't handle the pressure. He was comfortable here and pitched reasonabbly well when not left in too long. He should be putting himself in a position to succeed here instead of gambling elsewhere for the extra money**I'll laugh my ass off when he gets spanked in the AL, relegated to the bullpen and his little brother takes his spot in the rotation.

2006-06-30 15:21:04
98.   overkill94
89 Well, he does have a huge head.
2006-06-30 15:21:27
99.   JJoeScott
85 - I think it's more like when Mr. Haskell chose Jan over Marcia to work at the ice cream parlor. Peter (fired by Marcia) is Jae Seo.
2006-06-30 15:22:37
100.   JoeyP
Has Giles' name ever come up in discussion of steroids/HGH/etc.?

You ask that of Brian or Marcus.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-30 15:23:30
101.   Greg Brock
93 Here you go SB. It was a chore, but for you...anything.

http://tinyurl.com/r77r5

2006-06-30 15:25:13
102.   JoeyP
IIRC Jim Colborn had Oliver Perez tinkering with his mechanics this spring, and he just got optioned to AAA Indianapolis.

IIRC Jim Colborn had "Edwin Jackson" tinkering with his mechanics this spring, and he just got optioned to AAA Las Vegas.

2006-06-30 15:25:36
103.   Greg Brock
99 Me= Godfather reference
You= Brady Bunch reference

Where the DT folk fall on this argument may tell me more about this gang than anything...

And that was hilarious.

2006-06-30 15:27:13
104.   Another Bob
30 A "Moneyball" approach will work anywhere, since, despite how it's been portrayed, it's not about finding big slow guys who walk and hit home runs. It's about finding players who are more valuable than other teams think they are, because their skills contribute more to winning than other teams think they do. When the book was written, the skill that fit that description was OBP. It's not any more, and I don't know what has replaced it. Some people think that Oakland has moved on to valuing defense very highly, using metrics for it that only they know. No one knows what Alderson and DePo will concentrate on in SD.
2006-06-30 15:29:22
105.   the OZ
Revisiting our Padres Thoughts discussion from earlier, I forgot that they hired Grady Fuson, too. Their farm system should improve under his supervision. Fuson are similarly talented baseball guys.
2006-06-30 15:31:02
106.   Another Bob
54 63 67 I thought Adair said that humidity made balls travel further, but it has been years since I've read him, so I'm not completely sure.

Isn't there a theory that dry air hurts pitchers because it makes it harder to get a good grip on the ball, giving you less spin and therefore less break? Or is that a theory only in my head?

2006-06-30 15:31:18
107.   the OZ
er, Fuson and Logan White. My bad.
2006-06-30 16:01:33
108.   jasonungar05
I thought Moneyball was about Bad Defense, not caring at all about team chemistry, lame duck managers, Terrible Injuries and Jason Phillips playing 1b.

no? oh..my bad.

(sarcasm meter level at 11) scale 1-10.

2006-06-30 16:21:38
109.   Icaros
Moneyball is the story of a computer who runs away from home to join the circus that is Major League Baseball.

The computer is named Billy.

2006-06-30 16:24:45
110.   the OZ
109 It's actually the computer's autobiography, ghostwritten by Michael Lewis' Sidekick II.
2006-06-30 16:26:17
111.   Sushirabbit
Altitude changes the air pressure; lower pressure equals less drag (viscous) higher pressure increases it. I think Adair talks about this but I know others have. Seems like I also remember there being theories about how humidity changes the seams on the ball.

Anybody know the lineup yet?

2006-06-30 16:33:16
112.   natepurcell
Padres system is currently bad but they had a decent draft this year, grabbing OF Kyler Burke in the supp 1st and Matt Latos in the 8th or so. If they can sign latos that would add a power arm to their system.

Kershaw mad his professional debut today.

2006-06-30 16:35:08
113.   natepurcell
Grady Fuson is a great amatuer scout and Depo is a great mlb assistant. I hope they don't improve too much.
2006-06-30 16:37:25
114.   Jesse
i think the padres plan is all about decent on base guys who are quick enough to patrol the cavernous petco.
2006-06-30 16:39:27
115.   natepurcell
You know what camera angle I always liked? The catcher cam. The dodgers should use that.
2006-06-30 16:41:12
116.   Icaros
112

Why was Kershaw mad? Did he do poorly?

2006-06-30 16:43:24
117.   natepurcell
116 He only struck out 3 in 2IP instead of the full 6.
2006-06-30 16:46:36
118.   Icaros
117

What a bust! I'm mad, too.

2006-06-30 16:49:46
119.   thinkblue88
Not that it matters, but Dioner made his TB debut...with an intent walk.
2006-06-30 16:51:16
120.   the OZ
117, 116 Is he Matt Bush-level mad, enough to start biting people while drinking underage in bars?
2006-06-30 16:53:39
121.   natepurcell
In my GM sim thing I just want to blow up this team like the Marlins.
2006-06-30 16:54:53
122.   sanchez101
"Unstoppable Force vs. Immovable Object" or Jeff Francoeur up at the plate versus Daniel Cabrera
2006-06-30 16:56:27
123.   Steve
What would you guys give up for Tim Corcoran?
2006-06-30 16:57:08
124.   natepurcell
122

and Frenchie Ks!

2006-06-30 17:04:48
125.   underdog
119 Actually (not that it matters either) but Navarro made his debut in the previous game, versus the Marlins. Went 0 for 2 with 2 BBs.

Corcoran's looked good so far. But he's another TB player - wouldn't it be beyond the point of ridiculousness if we traded for yet another Devil Ray?

2006-06-30 17:07:24
126.   Jon Weisman
123 - What would you give up for Tim Conway?
2006-06-30 17:09:57
127.   Greg Brock
126 I would need Harvey Korman in a package deal.
2006-06-30 17:11:39
128.   GoBears
123

A Klondike Bar!

2006-06-30 17:11:43
129.   underdog
126 Maybe Harvey Korman and slapstick comedian to be named later.

Hey, Jonathan Meloan's numbers in Columbus look pretty good. 6BB's, 31 K's. Low ERA.

Hm, why does Columbus only have 3 OFs on their roster.

Also, does anyone know if Nic Akins signed and if he's playing anywhere yet?

2006-06-30 17:12:26
130.   underdog
D'oh, Brock beat me to it. Funny, I'd just watched Blazing Saddles the other night.
2006-06-30 17:12:59
131.   Steve
wouldn't it be beyond the point of ridiculousness if we traded for yet another Devil Ray

I'm going to play against type on this one, and shut this door quietly

For Tim Conway, I would give you Mary Hartman-era Martin Mull straight up.

2006-06-30 17:13:21
132.   StolenMonkey86
Hey, Navarro actually threw someone out. Everyone laugh at Ryan Zimmerman.
2006-06-30 17:14:46
133.   Marty
I work occasionally with a guy named Hedley. I can't stop thinking about Harvey Korman whenever I'm doing that.
2006-06-30 17:16:10
134.   Jon Weisman
131 - Ooh, that's an interesting challenge trade.

Michael McKean is a prospect from that era I might have dumped early, thinking that "Lenny" was his peak, only to see him blossom later on.

132 - I knew he could.

2006-06-30 17:17:00
135.   Icaros
I think Tim Conway is being undervalued here.

Can you imagine the OBP he'll have if he bats as Dorf everytime?

2006-06-30 17:17:06
136.   Sam DC
39 I believe the official name is now -- and for all eternity shall be -- Phone Company Park.

97 What I want to know is how much time did you spend hunting that comment down?

132 Speaking for young Ryan, I can only say, "Frank made me do it stupid busted Hit n Runs with Royce Clayton at the plate."

2006-06-30 17:17:51
137.   underdog
Martin Mull for Tim Conway? We'd be giving up way too much!

Fernwood 2-Nite, I mean, come on.

2006-06-30 17:18:53
138.   Marty
134 But you would have been right about Squiggy.
2006-06-30 17:20:12
139.   Jon Weisman
138 - Exactly! That's why it's so hard to gauge value!
2006-06-30 17:21:19
140.   Sam DC
Well, the Nationals had their little run, but they basically lose every night. They've got Pittsburgh in their sights, then they're coming for Kansas City.
2006-06-30 17:22:40
141.   Icaros
What I want to know is how much time did you spend hunting that comment down?

If LAT is anything like me, he prints out a hard copy of every one of his DT posts and glues it to his living room wall.

I mean, I'm not the only one, right?

2006-06-30 17:24:24
142.   Steve
Martin Mull for Tim Conway? We'd be giving up way too much!

Martin Mull has power potential, but I just don't see the OBP there that Tim Conway brings to the table. McHale's Navy and Carol Burnett.

2006-06-30 17:26:19
143.   Icaros
Throw in Vicki Lawrence with Conway and I'm sold on the deal.
2006-06-30 17:26:34
144.   scareduck
135 - but does he have to wear a fractional jersey number?
2006-06-30 17:28:02
145.   Jon Weisman
Game thread is open/
2006-06-30 17:30:36
146.   scareduck
From the Angels website... Jered Weaver will replace his brother in the rotation. And that's not all:

http://tinyurl.com/f8qz6

Reports have surfaced ... that the Dodgers -- whom Weaver pitched for last year -- are in need for a pitcher and might be willing to give their former starter another chance.

2006-06-30 17:31:41
147.   Steve
I don't know -- you're giving up the rights to Mama's Family there.
2006-06-30 17:32:32
148.   Icaros
144

That's an option. Wouldn't be any stranger than when Benito Santiago wore 09.

2006-06-30 17:34:41
149.   Icaros
147

I thought I was getting Conway and Lawrence and giving up Mull.

I won't do the reverse deal. That's for Jim Bowden.

2006-06-30 17:36:59
150.   Icaros
So...Guzman, Broxton, and Kuo for Jeff Weaver?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-06-30 17:38:48
151.   Steve
I don't see what Vicki Lawrence gets you in that deal.
2006-06-30 17:40:05
152.   Jon Weisman
On the flip side, you have to be careful not to do something like trade for Ted Knight at his MTM peak and then end up with Ted Knight in his Too Close for Comfort decline phase.
2006-06-30 17:40:19
153.   natepurcell
150

I should offer that to the Angels GM.

2006-06-30 17:41:02
154.   Icaros
151

Troll!

2006-06-30 17:43:11
155.   Icaros
153

Are these other GMs actual people? I was envisioning some kind of PS2 game or something.

2006-06-30 17:44:48
156.   Steve
I'm just sayin'. I would go for something like Tim Conway and Horshack.
2006-06-30 17:51:35
157.   Icaros
156

Do you understand the depth it takes to play an old lady when one is merely a middle-aged lady?

2006-06-30 18:02:58
158.   Steve
Tim Conway and Don Adams for Madeline Kahn and Martin Mull
2006-06-30 18:19:03
159.   Jon Weisman
Madeline Kahn is an All-Star.
2006-06-30 18:29:28
160.   twerp
Sushirabbit, you mentioned being from TN. Did you mean formerly or do you live there now? Thx.
2006-06-30 18:59:22
161.   DXMachina
159 - But sadly a dead All-Star, as is Adams. Say what you will about Ned, he hasn't traded for any dead guys yet. (Carter is only mostly dead.)
2006-06-30 19:07:11
162.   Steve
161 -- Exactly! What do you think Don Adams is? Geez.
2006-06-30 19:17:39
163.   Suffering Bruin
101 Many, many thanks for this.

What DTer can claim to have interviewed Logan White not once but twice in the 1980s?

From 2/26/2004, when the site like the team was blue...

-------------------------------------------

I used to be a sportscaster and my first job was in Silver City, New Mexico. The college in town was Western New Mexico University which competed at the NAIA level with pretty good success. I got there the year after (the?) Logan White left.

Logan went on to the minor leagues in the Yankee system. He came back to visit when WNMU made it to the postseason. He had all of us captivated. The way he related his experiences made me think that this was a guy who would coach one day. He was a right-handed pitcher who said he could throw left-handed faster than Tommy John but he wasn't bragging. His point was that you could be effective without great velocity. One player was incredulous and asked how can a guy throw that soft (John) and be effective. "Throws a million different pitches; all of them for strikes." I knew a little more about sports than the guys on the bus and Logan and I talked afterward and had a great conversation.

Now, fast forward two years. I'm in Alaska doing play-by-play for the North Pole Nicks (as in Santa Claus. Seriously.) By the by, our team had Eric Karros, Luis Gonzalez and Jim Campanis, grandson of you-know-who. The team played an exhibition game against Athletes in Action. I'm over in the dugout trying to familiarize myself with guys I've never heard of and I see their assistant coach who looked like a lot of assistant coaches. He was a little dumpy, seemed a lot older and as I got closer, I was a little surprised because it was Logan White. Gone was the physique of a professional baseball player and long gone was the energy he had in van just two years ago.

I tried to jog his memory, told him we shared a van after his Yankee spring training and he kind of winced and said, "Yeah, well, I blew out my arm and it's a blessing because I wasn't a very good Christian and I'm a husband now... I don't pitch anymore." He didn't remember me and he gently but emphatically excused himself.

The game starts and the Nicks are killing them which was expected--I think AIA only brought a partial squad. Anyway, late in the game, Logan White took the hill. He looked very, very reluctant to pitch but he did. It was like watching the present-day Muhammad Ali in a boxing match--painful but you can see the skill that was there. His pitches looked like soap bubbles and he only lasted a couple of batters. I was pretty excited because I had a lot of biographical information on him.

After the game, the AIA athletes gave the Nicks their phone numbers in case they wanted to talk about Christianity. I think it was something they had to do. Anyway, Logan gave me his. I didn't use it as I wasn't intersted in Evangelical Christianity and frankly, he didn't seem all that enthused about where he was. I never thought I'd hear about him again.

Until he started drafting High School pitchers for the Dodgers. If it is the same Logan White, I'm happy for him.

2006-06-30 19:59:50
164.   DXMachina
162 - Well Adams is more than mostly dead. About the only thing you could do with him at this point is go through his pockets looking for loose change.

And maybe steal his shoes.

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