Grady is right, and that is why he is a vast improvement over Jim Tracy. Well, that and he's not a total idiot.

The only thing Josh R got wrong in that response at all was that he was too nice when called Bill Plaschke one of the best sportswriters in the country. I know he's probably saying that because he has to be diplomatic and give his vinegar with a little sugar added or whatever, but I doubt he believes it. At any rate, pretty on the nose as a response otherwise.

He also mentions that there's a roundtable with Little, Ned and McCourt tonight on KFWB? Don't think I can listen to it out of the area but if anyone does and hears something worth noting, feel free to pass it along.

Yeah, if Rawitch thinks Plaschke is one of the best sportswriters in the country, he really needs to get out more.

If diplomacy is defined as the ability to lie for one's country (or employer, in this case), I suppose he's got it down.

Ethier for LaRouche dosn't sound that bad to me (don't trash me for saying that please I'm just a dumb fan) Soriano is 30 years old how many more "good years" dose he have? 4-5? I wouldn't be that bumed about that trade, but then again Ethier is playing great, & LaRouche's sealing is high, I don't know I guess I wouldn't make a good G.M.

2 - Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Being tactful and diplomatic is part of a PR director's job description.

3 Someone once defined diplomacy as the ability to say the most awful things in the nicest possible way. In that sense, I think Rawitch went a little overboard in his "but I respect him, really" disclaimer. Should have said something like "he truly is one of the very best columnists whose name begins with a P in Los Angeles."

"But to leave out one of the main things Ned said because it contradicted his opinion doesn't make sense to me."

This is the crux of what Plaschke will never be invited to dinner at my house. People who argue using incomplete information and ignore the possible counter-arguments are the worst kind of advocates in the world. In fact, it reminds me of extremism.

What a fool I've been! Rawitch isn't being diplomatic, he's setting off proxy wars. Every time he says something idiotically respectful of Plaschke, morons like me head over and bash him, doing Rawitch's work for him, but allowing him plausible deniability. Gee Bill, I'm sorry they called you names, no controlling those internet people, har har. It's so clear, now.

Proxy wars in the defense of logic are no vice!

4 Andre Ethier for...Lyndon LaRouche?

That deal would never get by the Trilateral Commmission.

The only thing I'd add is that I think that the ability of many Dodger fans' to handle a rebuilding year, as long as it has been spelled out to them, has always been greately underestimated.

Definitely. I mean, better to rebuild than try to sling a bunch of mud together and hope it dries and becomes a beautiful sculpture. I think as the organization is doing so much to celebrate the 1981 team, they're really thinking that raising your own farm system is the best way to try to win a championship, and I don't think that will be hard for fans to recognize.

I think we'll just have to accept that the Dodgers only had one truly great (or even good) free agent signing, and that was Kirk Gibson.

10 Not to mention: LaRouche's mobility has been called into question -- though it's better now than it was in the early '90s.

10 Our CPUSA meetings used to get raided regularly by the LaRouche people. We didn't have to go into hiding from the government, but from the "Roosevelt" wing of the demorcats. Have you ever seen him speak? The man's literally insane, you can see it in his eyes.

Tostitos salsa is very weak.

4 - I don't see Atlanta doing it. I think there's a better chance of them sending Jeff Francoeur to Oakland for a year to teach him to take a pitch. The Braves' outfield isn't bad, and while it would be nice to have Laroches at the corners, I wouldn't put more than a nickel on it.

Atlanta would probably much rather have Broxton anyway, and the answer to that one is NO.

I don't see LA doing it either.

Frankly, I might be more excited about the prospect of re-building that trudging through the rest of a disappointing season.

Afternoon Becomes Eclectic?

The idea of Vin Scully going to ball games as a kid is a really pleasant one for me. I'm going to be pretty devastated when he's no longer with the team.

I hope the good Peavy dons't show up today.

Someone wrote that the best definition of diplomacy was saying "Nice Doggie" while you try to find a big stick.

14

I'm more of a home made salsa guy.

Me, too. But I don't know how to make it. I can't wait till my wife gets home.

20 - I believe that's a Churchillism.

Cubs and Mets 0-0, top of the 10th. And no, I haven't been drinking. Doctor's orders, you know.

13 - We always get the LaRouche people handing out literature, etc on campus, and they're a bunch of nuts. They're a combination of conspiracy theorists and bad economists. Their stuff is like the Weekly World News, except not as interesting and in color.

Bradford with a perfecto thru 1.

Now would be a good time to try to "sell" the fans on a rebuilding year, as the rookies this year have easily been the brightest aspect of this year (Nomar too, but we'll see how his season wraps up).

Problem with rebuilding next year, is that it could conceivably be 3 90-loss seasons in a row (though they are straight-lining for "only" 86 losses this year, but that number is rising with a bullet). That might be tough to swallow, even if the 3rd one (next year) could be the most intriguing.

Also, the division stinks, which is almost certainly temporary. LA, SD, and AZ all look to be on the rise through the rest of the decade. Passing on a division title through this stretch might end up coming back to haunt.

4/15 - Did I miss something?

I thought it was a tie (Furcal sliding to 2nd)

How about, the Dodgers will still spend $100 million a year, but will divert money from payroll to get Vin Scully his own fountain of youth? I think we can all agree on that.

Then we just have to get Dodger games broadcasted nationally like TBS . . .

24 One time a LaRouche recruiter and I were talking over lunch and we were talking about my politics. He said, "Oh, you're a Communist? LaRouche is just like Lenin. Actually, Lenin wanted to be just like LaRouche." Then we began to talk about my field of study, which is classics. He said, "You know, LaRouche is just like Sokrates. Attaining the pinnacle of Sokrates' philosophy leads one to be just like LaRouche."

nice AB slugger. ::rolls eyes::

What, Penny got through the first innng on 9 pitches?

That combined with not running on Lofton last night convinces me of one thing: the Padres aren't very smart.

And the Tomato hammered out a double.

And Peavy has thrown more pitches than Penny in the first.

Good signs all around.

Aside from the win against AZ, have the Dodgers ever led by more than 2 runs in any game since the break?

JAWFE

26 What gives you any indication that San Diego will be on an upswing, their team is very old, and their minor league system is barren, they looked poised for a crash to me.

Was Tomko activated? If so who got sent out?

Bob. Dodgers led 2-0 in the 1st game after the break on a Nomar 2 run home run.

35 - It doesn't appear he was activated for today's game.

Tomko not listed on Gameday

I would say San Diego would be on an upswing if Peavy were pitching better.

And they had a left side of the infield.

Vinnie just mentioned that Repko is in fact hurt I don't know but sometimes there healthy departement makes some quiestionable disitions.JMO.

Any news on Baez? I heard he was hurt last night.

But my question was:

have the Dodgers ever led by more than 2 runs?

And I believe the answer is no.

Bad reading comprehension on my part.

41 - he saw how bad he was pitching and got sick to his stomach? Got me.

Dang nabbit Russ. We are SO in need a big inning.

29- Plaschke and LaRouche have that in common. Lenin wished he was half the writer Plascke, or, as I like to call him, American Shakespeare, is. Also, you could study all the Socrates (I don't care if it's wrong, but I wouldn't be opposed to hearing you explain why it is) you liked, but you'd never reach Plaschke's level of nirvanic philosophical completeness.

Plaschke is proof of human perfectibility.

Any word on Tomko? He was suppose to be activated today, but it doesn't appear that he was activated.

46 Arw you trying to start a proxy proxy war?

26 - SF is quietly gaining ground in their farm system, too, and they've produced one possible star-level pitcher in Matt Cain.

34 - The Padres have Alderson and Depodesta in the front office, two good young starters to build on (Peavy, Chris Young), and some nice young players in Gonzalez, Barfield, and Greene.

They've also got zero payroll commitments outside of Giles, Peavy, and Hoffman for next year.

The Giants - now there's an old team with a barren system due for a crash.

49 - Do the Giants have anything in their farm system of note? Not anything at AA or above?

I just see a whole lot of Lance Niekro's and Merkin Valdez's.

Has anyone been able to pinpoint Jake Peavy's problems this year? The guy was a stud last season. This season he's a mule.

48- I'm not, necessarily, not doing that.

Speaking of farm systems, poor Edwin Jackson had a rough outing today, coming in for Casey Fossum, who also had a rough outing:
0.1 5 5 4 1

The Giants farm system is getting better but is still considered fairly shallow at the moment. Sanchez, the reliever they called up, is good, and there's Cain, a few hitters here and there, most of their other talent lies in low minors...

53 Effectively using a double negative to make a non-negative! And I was afraid you would lose your edge when you quit smoking!

I was doing some wishful thinking about the Perez trade. The royals are paying the remainder of his salary this year correct? Maybe Colletti wanted to free up some money for Logan White to sign the two late round awesome talents in Alex White and Nick Akins. I think you can get both for a combined 1.75million or so. If that is what they had in mind (doubt it), then the trade becomes better in my eyes.

52 - The K/9 and K/BB rates are still solid as ever.

He's just getting hit too often. His BAA is .261 this year, up from .217 last year.

Aybar's OPS has dropped 70 points on this 7 game losing streak.

When your team is looking forward to the return of Tomko, its future is not too bright.

50 Don't think much of Gonzalez, Barfield, and Greene, they all seem like solid players, but I don't see a single difference maker there. Greene has really come back to earth after his rookie season, Gonzalez looks to be a punch and judy firstbaseman, and Barfield has talent, but isn't going to be a dominant second baseman. Other than that they have nothing.

As for Alderson and Depo, they are impressive baseball minds, but don't have many pieces work with imo, and San Diego looks to struggle in the next 4-5 years, by my read of it.

58 Whose hasn't?

I was thinking about intro songs for players when they go to bat. I've changed my pick to that song, whose title I don't know, which is on one of the great episodes of I Love Lucy that goes "I tipppy-tippy-toe through my garden/ where all the pretty flowers dwell..."

61 Ethier's.

54

The giants have Tim Lincecum now. He'll move fast.

Josh Bard has been a nice find for SD

52 Peavy has durability issues. He throws a lot of sliders and doesn't weigh very much (listed at 180). His shoulder is a concern and will likely be going forward. He's had some arm trouble this season, as well.

54 It'll be tough for the Giants to improve their farm system when they, seemingly as a matter of strategy, forfeit first-round draft picks. Their first pick in 2005 was #132. In 2006, it was Lincecum at #10, a pick protected from free-agent signing compensation.

64 He will move fast, I agree. As I said, most of their talent lies in the low minors. (But he may not be there for long.)

61. Actually, Aybar's plummett is the largest on the team in the past 7 days. Probably because of overall lack of PA's. Drew's has only gone down 4 points.

If the Padres are not to stink in the upcoming years they are going to have to sign a lot of free agents. They should also deal some of their veterans, the problem is that they still want to make the playoffs. I think the Pads and Giants will have a few years of growing pains as the Dodgers, D-Backs, and Rockies rule the NL West.

13 Just became my all time favorite funny post.

I love how Plaschke equates a big trade with us going to the World Series. We probably wouldn't even make the playoffs.

66 But Peavy can hit :)

Here's a sick thought I had yesterday.

If San Diego and Arizona both make the postseason these former Dodgers that were on the 2004 squad will be playing in the postseason of 2006 FOR A NATIONAL LEAGUE TEAM. UGH!!!

Paul LoDuca - Mets
Duaner Sanchez - Mets

Dave Roberts - Padres

Juan Encarnacion - Cardinals

Shawn Green - Diamondbacks

Great, give up a double to the opposing pitcher. Well done. Sigh. In a game where there may not be much room for error, especially given the Dodgers offense... that doesn't help.

The Padres also have some serious financial issues. They are at MLB's debt limit and have some additional private debt that makes meeting their cash outflows pretty tight sometimes. They won't be able to go above the total current annual player payroll of $70,000,000,000m (that's in millidollars).

JESUS H CHRIST.

trade Brad Penny too. Another 5 inning start for our horse? :::rolls eyes again:::

I believe that's the game, gentlemen.

The Colletti World Dominance Tour 2006 continues unabated.

At least Cameron didn't hit a double.

Vin: "So Brad Penny right now isn't worth a farthing"

76. Please dont blaspheme on this site. I find it personally offensive.

Get Dessens in the game!!

Grady needs to let him go 5 so he can get the win.

I'm going back & forth from the Dodger game & 40y'ol virgin.

Penny is just getting unlucky. I mean, what are the odds that all these balls put in play would turn into hits...?

6 straight hits? That's better than the Atlanta game.

Way to step up Brad when we really need an ace like performance.

Gonzalez looks to be a punch and judy firstbaseman,

He's already hit 18Hrs.

His pitch count isn't all that bad...

how dose Penny do in the 2nd half, anybody know?

Won't they never win again?

75 - OK, if that's true then I take back the nice things I said about SD. The fact that only Peavy and Giles are under contract in 2008 I felt gave them a tremendous amount of financial flexibility. I would trust Alderson and Depodesta to spend that money wisely.

But if that money isn't there, and the minor league system is ashes-to-ashes, dust-to-dust, then I'm in agreement with the consensus here.

Penny is yelling at Lofton....How many Kelories is that?

anyways, this much closer to David Price!!

Fur-kel with the form that makes him a perennial all star.

88 - Looks very similar to Palmeiro. Hmm...

I was watching on Gameday, and wondering exactly how Roberts "doubled on a ground ball to CF Kenny Lofton"

90. Were Dodger fans. How would we know? He didn't pitch for us in the 2nd half of 2004 and I think most have deleted the events in the memory bank of 2005.

93 OK, Nate, if the Dodgers lose all of their remaining games and finish with the #1 pick in the 2007 draft, who do you take? Other than David Price?

I';m not watching the game, why was Penny yelling at Lofton? Did he Loftonize a play that inning?

OK, Nate, if the Dodgers lose all of their remaining games and finish with the #1 pick in the 2007 draft, who do you take? Other than David Price?

David Price.

If Lofton makes out look for Drew to come through with a Shawn Green-esque single .....(base empty 2 outs single)

99

Roberts got to 2b on a groundball to shallow cf lol.

100 Who should round out the top 5?

There's something metaphysical about this Dodger collapse. It must be all the blaspheming on this site.

JD pops out to 3rd. WOOHOO. Ned needs to dump all of Depo's high priced garbage....Penny, Lowe, Drew........and start anew. Trade these bums for prospects and bring in Zito, Schmidt, and Soriano for 2007.

This is sickening.

to expand on 100. I would probably go the top College player If we are in the top 5. Someone that could come up in a yr or two and supplement our young core.

See Joey, no anti college bias here!

We have "killer Bs", too, Vin.

If this team doesn't make you blaspheme, nothing will.

108 Yeah, Yahweh has definitely made a bet with somebody.

107 Baez. Beimel. Bizturis.

Isn't next year's draft thin as well?

Just turn on the computer and what pops up on the front page of yahoo? The singer of n'sync announces that he's gay. Surprise, surprise.

I'm glad that one of our pitchers has finally called out Lofton. Lofton just waited for the ball to roll to him.

H-E double hockey sticks. Barfield doubles on a fly ball thats in the air for 14 seconds to shallow center in extra innings which leads to another loss.

I don't know why we just didn't keep Dan Evans. The only thing keeping us out of the playoffs in the last years of Evans were...
1) Johnson and Schilling
2) Super Juiced Bonds

oh for pete's sake.

Time to start drinking...

Perennial all star Geoff Blum with a single and double. Keep up the great work ace.

Wonder what the old "Round Table Discussion" tonight is gonna be like in the wake of this fiasco?

When does Penny start to pretend he's hurt?

Peavy is going for the cycle.

Jake Peavy.

All you can do is laugh.

Not that anyone cares but I'm postponing my trip to Cincy.

Not only has the plane crashed into the mountain, the mountain just slid into a village of Girl Scouts. This is ridiculous, and I can't stop laughing.

This has transcended into high comedy. For those who can actually follow the games with some audio or video device, is the crowd booing yet? I mean, really, a homer to Peavy? As 104 insinuates, it must be all the blaspheming.

112.
Lofton waited because he limps everywhere. He looked hurt last time I saw him.

113 Add:

(3) The worst offense in baseball history.

Evans? Eh. Not the best judge of talent.

On a positive note if Brad can make it through 1 more inning his innings per start for the year shouldn't go down any.

121 I nearly did a spit-take.

Kenny Lofton is chuckling inside

Peavy is going for the cycle.

That was Peavy's 2nd HR of the season.
Carlos Zambrano has I think 5HRs.

If Peavy can get up to Kenny speed, he can get a triple.

Penny is angry. That last pitch to Roberts was 132mph on the radar gun.

Sell, sell, sell...

I thought Tahoe said yesterday he wasnt going to follow the Dodgers as often.

Those were quieter times.

How did this HAPPEN? My God.

Who should round out the top 5?

I haven't really done a ton of research on the draft yet. I usually dont start with that until later.

In 2 years Depo led us to the playoffs once. In the 8 or 9 years previous we went 0 times and it looks like we will go 0-1 since Depo was fired (cant wait to see who they fire this offseason).

Can we just let the Depo mistake (if you feel that way) go?

134 Precisely.

Anybody wanna take bets on how many days it is before Frank has another employee purge?

133. I haven't been. I went to bed last night rather than watch some of the crud that the blue is fielding. If it's an afternoon game I'm going to watch............no matter how CRAPPY Drew is.

Penny is not garage bluetahoe.

And yes, sell, sell, sell. Get Kenny and Izzy out of here. Useless to us.

134 - shh, you're blaspheming again! Can't you tell that this is the result of an angry God?

Martin has a hit, I hope that sparks the club.

Jason Grabowski wasn't THAT influential. LOL....

I would rather watch the 51s than this. If they're going to lose, let's watch the kids get used to major league pitching.

I don't know if that's actually a good idea for their development, but it would be fun to root for them.

NPB. Quit blasphemmeeming. It offends me. LOL.....

thinkingblue. It's just a case of the hateful harry's. I still say trade Penny, Lowe, and Drew, and bring in some REAL aces (Schmidt/Zito) and a REAL offensive threat (Soriano) in 2007.

138 Rob, I was wondering the same thing. Who takes the fall for this collapse? I can't believe that Ned would. Does Grady have more than a one-year contract?

Aybar actually gets on base....with some help. Here comes Izzy as Peavy begins to tremble.

I guess after today Aybar's OPS will have dipped 80 points during the streak.

138 He can't fire anyone. That's why this is so depressing. He's used all of that "firing people is good for the club" capital up already.

If he fires someone, he becomes the center of a story framed by "lousy owner keeps blaming other for his mistakes." If he stays quiet, the focus stays more or less on the field where Plaschke can make DePodesta holdovers like Drew and Penny out to be scapegoats while Colletti and McCourt are largely ignored.

147 My Magic 8 Ball predicts Josh Rawitch. Hey, if they could let Gary Miereanu go because the team was losing, why not Josh?

Josh, if you're reading this, please know I'm on your side.

147 - I can't tell. Looking back at the press releases in AP and on dodgers.com, there doesn't seem to be any mention of his contract's duration. Maybe he's month-to-month. :-)

Some of you are having fun, which is good. Some of you are baiting other commenters, which is bad. Please understand the distinction.

Penny's going out for the 5th. What a battler!

152
Some of you are having fun baiting other commenters, which is both good and bad.

Such a game deserves such a thread.

Changing the subject, anyone experience a hotter summer than this year? My air conditioner is running at max and it's still over 85 degrees most days.

I think it will be a HOT and LONG summer following our dodgers this year.

155 - I have to admit a growing fascination with how bad this stretch of games (let alone this particular game) can get.

149

I agree, to some degree.

Bring in Repko! The team needs a spark!

I'm trying to think of something positive and I've come up with something. Thank the high heavens we didn't outbid San Diego and offer Brian Giles a 4th year. That would have been DISASTOROUS!! Then again nobody in their right mind would have given Giles 4 years. Maybe more money over 3 years, but not over 4.

Daniel Moskos, lhp from Clemson is could be the second ranked prospect for next year's draft. 93-93 fastball with sink, slider, and split and he throws all his pitches down in the zone. I have heard some other names, but I do not know much about them. None of their stuff jumped out at me.

Penny's only thrown 74 pitches.
Wonder if he'll bat in the bottom of the 5th?

147

I was wondering that my self, anybody?

Offensive Substitution: Pinch hitter Jose CruzJr. replaces Brad Penny

That IS an offensive substitution.

I had actually come to Dodger Thoughts this morning planning to make a crack about whether team leadership will cook up a reason to fire Grady Little, but Jon's post sort of preempted that. 149 makes sense on this subject, but I wonder.

157 - It's the final countdown [cue GOB music]

Thank the high heavens we didn't outbid San Diego and offer Brian Giles a 4th year

If Rafael Furcal was the consolation prize, is there really anything to be celebrating?

*92-93

No spark from Jose Cruz.

bluetahoe, Penny has been our most reliable pitcher, and is not making a lot of money for a pitcher that has done as good as Penny has, so why would you trade him?

And Jose Cruz makes out batting left handed. Couldn't see that one coming. LOL...

157
I'm picturing Jon tampering with the traffic signals near his home too just to see what would happen.

170. He's just baiting. Leave him be.

170. Because he could bring back a lot and he is no Zito/Schmidt. And I think he may be making in the neigborhood of 20 mill over the next 2 seasons. Matter of fact I'm going to look it up right now.

Hey, Furry with the long ball.

I'm glad the Furcal homered. I was tired of losing 6-1.

I'm afraid Zito and Schmidt are no Zito/Schmidt. I really don't want to hang the team-savior tag on them.

156 - there was a story in the Times yesterday about how hot the temperatures are at night. It's so warm that it's not giving the power distribution equipment enough time to cool down, thus inducing even more failures.

http://tinyurl.com/rrmfq

Time for Odal, wait, nevermind.

I think the team should hold tryouts in the community. In these distressing times of global climate change, never-ending war, and previously unimaginable losing streaks, we need one of us, possibly a bartender, to step up and become a hero. Or maybe I've just been working in Hollywood too long.

Bottom line regarding "heat": much of Southern California is not fit for habitation, and really never has been.

Why not just keep the best players the team has, and replace the worse ones?

Penny will cost 18 mill over the next 2 season assuming a 2 mill buyout.

How fitting. Not only does Lofton have as many homers as Drew the past 2 months so does Furcal.

Sele!

183. Maybe Midas will turn Penny into Mark Hendrickson or Elmer Dessens?

We can be so lucky.

Why not just keep the best players the team has, and replace the worse ones?

Yeah, but who gets to decide which is which?

Actually, I'd rather keep Lowe over Penny. Lowe can pitch on 3 days rest and he can frequently pitch 7+ innings.

And while I'm venting I say give Tomko a shot at the closers role when he returns.

186 Pick me! Pick me!

Cue "Merry Go Round Broke Down".

So, is Sele not starting on Thursday? And if not, who is?

I want prospects for Penny. I'd trade Penny for Milledge straight up, right here, right now.

Furcal has only 1 less homer, and his slugging isn't much lower than Giles.

I no longer consider Adrian Gonzalez/James Loney comparisons to to be a slam on Loney's ability.

And while I'm venting I say give Tomko a shot at the closers role when he returns.

I doubt Tomko would get much work in that role. So I'd endorse it. The less of Tomko, the better.

Did the Padres rip off the Rangers or what?
Chris Young and Adrian Gonzalez..

This is truly taking on an air of unreality.
What else can go wrong? NO please don't speculate.

That Texas-San Diego trade in the past offseason is looking awfully good for SD.

190.

theres no game on thursday

This team has a winning record when Tomko is on the active 25 man roster.

They took Lofton out. That means Penny and Lofton can continue their conversation.

195

As a trained pessimist, I can tell you about a million things that could possibly go wrong.

Some of them involve having Dodger Stadium hit by an errant Taepodong 2 missile.

197 At least we won't lose.

The team has a winning record when Jon attends too.

182 - D4P wants to sell on Southern California's chances for livability in 2006. Others think we have a chance to make it livable. The debate is on!

187 - Now you really are searching for things to complain about. Assuming we get the opportunity to use a closer again this year, Saito doesn't deserve a demotion.

190 - Aren't we off Thursday?

I missed most of the conversation, but Steinday were just talking about some anger in the dugout between Penny and Lofton.

What happened to all the Chemistry™ Ned brought in...?

200 Or an accurate Taepo-Dong II? Or perhaps an errant Shahab-III?

Don't forget Scuds. There's Scuds everywhere.

Time for Peavy to hit a triple.

so I guess we're looking at

Wash Fri - Billz
Wash Sat - Lowe
Wash Sun - Hendrickson

at Cin Tue - Penny
at Cin Wed - Billz

I hope I'm right. I really want to see Billz pitch in person. And if I'm really really lucky I'll get to see Brad Penny pitch 6 innings......in person.

This game reminds of the late April game when the struggling Padres were on the verge of getting swept by LA in San Diego only to come back with 5 runs in the 9th inning to tie the game and eventually win it in the 10th. SD went on to win 9 in a row and 14 out of 15.

Izzy with the error. Bench him!

207 Not likely. Lofton's on the bench.

Penny is an excuse maker when he picthes crappy. He did it in Atlanta and it looks like he may be doing it again today. It's not Lofton's fault you can't get Geoff Blum out or a freakin pitcher takes you yard.

Is Sele out of the rotation now?

When will Hendrickson win his 1st for odgers?

When will Lowe win again?

Stay turned.

212.

He doesn't pitch crappy much

"Crappily"

I demand we use adverbs!

Ah, that reminds me of the sign that used to greet visitors to my hometown in upstate NY:

WELCOME TO GLENVILLE
Please Drive Friendly

I'd probably put Izturis on the bench for a bit over the next two weeks. My guess is that he's playing tired.

215 - sorry, Dodger fans can only afford replacement-level grammar these days to go along with the team.

Well, the suns over the yard arm back east.
But things aren't lookin up as Ethier goe down.

Russell Martin looked liked Hack Wilson in the slomo shot.

1-12 since Kemp was demoted.

Clearly, it was Matt Kemp holding the team together. Why cant Placschke write an article mentioning the demotion of Matt Kemp destroying team chemistry?

Tomorrow's an off-day, right?

223 Evidently, so is today.

And the previous day, and the day before that...

9 times this season Derek Lowe has pitched more than 6.0 innings.

9 times this season Mark Hendrickson has pitched more than 6.0 innings.

Our supposed ace has accomplished the feat 6 whole times in 21 starts.

We need an ace or 2 and the answers are Zito/Schmidt. Case closed.

222 - so is today, apparently.

213.

will the dodgers win again?

can we have a taker for Lofton?

can we find a taker for Izzy?

Can we call up LaRoche already?

bwahaha

have a nice fall?!

217 - Izturis is 1-18 since his daughter was born. Now, I'm no expert, and I don't have kids, but I'm willing to he's not that well rested with an 8-day-old baby girl at home.

Adande had a point about paternity leave.

224.

But who has prevented more runs?

Schmidt has been the best at that. Followed by Penny, then Zito, then Lowe.

You need to get you're head cleared.

how to get izturis out-

throw the ball to the catcher

It looks like the only way we will win again is if one of our starters throw a shutout.

213

Hendrickson will never win again, Dave Stewart said so.

Nomar to the Angels for prospects sounds so good to me. Nomar stays home, we get to watch Nomar in the playoffs, they need a bat and if prospects aren't good enough we can get Kevin Gregg, Brendan Donnelly or Estaban Yan.

233 - you can get Yan for free. The Reds DFA'd him last week or this.

231 - think negative runs allowed.

226 - what was his excuse when he went into a tailspin last year?

231 - that will just get the game into extra innings and you know how the Dodgers do in extra inning games.

Steiner just noted that the Dodgers are 2-38 when trailing after 6 innings.

228 - have other players had dips in performances due to newborn children?

I looked up Griffey Jr and Bonds, but Barry was born 4 years before Bobby hit the majors, and Ken Griffey Jr was born in the off season. Dave Laroche was not playing or in the offseason when Andy and Adam were born.

Hillenbrand's hit 3-15 so far with SF

238 They keep giving stats like that, but I'd imagine that most teams' records aren't very good when trailing after 6. What's the league average?

236 - er, make that in reference to 228.

238 - so you're saying we still have a chance?

Furcal heating up. Another double. Yes, we overpaid, but he's not that far behind what he's been in his career, or even last year.

235 Isturis saves 2 runs with a great defensive play and we win 0 to -2.

I was grasping for any ex-tampa bay closer I could find. I was being sarcastic again. I do think trading Nomar is the way to go. If we want him so much for next year, then sign him after the season.

Peavy's threw 129 pitches in those 7 innings of work.

Smile, they said, life could be worse. So I did. And it was.

Am I the only person who's just gone completely numb watching this tailspin? Granted, it could be the mescaline, but I don't think so.

244 -- That was the thread equivalent of a Big Papi grand slam in the eighth inning...of a 10-0 game; nevertheless, I, yes, LOLed.

246 the slomo of his arm looked really cool.

I've been trying to amuse myself determining when the Dodgers last turned 5 DPs in a game.

244 When people write about how Izturis saves runs with his glove, or hits .350 with his glove, I wonder: are they talking about his defensive play or the actual leather fielding glove itself?

If the glove indeed contains some kind of magical power, maybe we should trade Izturis and keep the glove. Then we could give it to Aybar and he can start hitting .350 with his glove AND his bat.

Time for DP #6!

238 FWIW, the Dodgers are 11th in baseball in runs scored, innings 7+.

They have scored 156. The leader is Philadelphia, with 178. Bringing up the rear is St. Louis, with 114. Haven't yet found all teams' records when trailing after six, but it doesn't seem like the Dodgers are especially poor.

Methinks Bellhorn is much more likely to strike out than hit a ground ball against Broxton.

254

Just throw me a bone here, Bellhorn!

Bellhorn, I'm displeased!

I agree Jon. If Paul DePosdesta had been honest that there was a 3 year rebuilding process I think LA fans would have accepted that. I mean, they accept anything (as the attendance figures bare out). The Dodgers have basically stunk since the mid 1980s andI think every die hard fan would take three straight years of no play offs to a return to the years when we are going to the World Series frequently on the backs of multiple Rookies of the Year. Every old fogey they sign makes me cringe. There is no substitute for a good farm system.

p.s. Plashcke is the reason I cancelled my LA Times subscription

We have Franklin Stubbs AND Greg Brock in the house.

All we need now are Mike Marshall and Billy Ashley!

250 - based on Retrosheet, it appears May 28, 1998 against the Cubs.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B05280LAN1998.htm

259 - er, against the Reds.

See, I'm so glad I didn't chose Franklin Stubbs as my handle. I knew some wonderful fella would.

Personally, I'm still waiting for Tracy Woodson and Dave Anderson to show up.

We may be a little self absorbed here but the biggest story right now has to be the collapse of the White Sox, they have gone 2-10 since the break and the Twins and Yankess are now all tied for the Wild Card with the Blue Jays only 3 games back.

And for Nate - Sal's Pals move to NYC

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- The New York Yankees acquired catcher Sal Fasano from the Philadelphia Phillies on Wednesday for minor league second baseman Hector Made.

262
Sigh, no one ever looks at the Griddle unless Harold Reynolds or an international Korean sporting event is taking place.

The Dodgers move within grand slam range!

One swing of the bat could tie this game up.

265
Provided that three other things happen before that one swing of the bat.

265 So could zero swings, assuming the Dodgers get seven walks in the ninth inning.

Cruz, Furcal, and the pitcher's spot will set the table in the 9th for Drew!

263 There a few Griddle loyalists out there, Bob.

i was run off this site about a year ago...I attribute it partially to my hatred of JD Drew, but mostly to the handle. be careful franklin.

The Dodgers are going to have decide soon what to do with Nomar and I mean, should they just DL him until they come back from the road trip. I think so, call up Loney to play 1B and don't run the risk of bringing back Nomar too soon. Also, they are going to wear out Saenz if he has to play everyday.

Actually, if the table were set for Drew right now, he would most likely stab himself with a dessert fork.

263 We call ourselves "Little Timmermann Urban Achievers."

272
Or gag on his silver spoon.

263 Sorry Bob, will you be providing a transcript of the mighty roundtable tonight.
The only thing that surprises me is that Tommy is not involved. But then I guess they do want some other people to talk.

C'mon Roberts, I want DP #6!

Question: Who will be fired first, Grady or Ozzie?

275

Sorry no transcipt will appear on the Griddle. If you would like a transcipt, please send $10 and an SASE to "McCourt/Colletti roundtable, PO Box 44000, Ansonia Station, New York, NY 10023"

No money orders please.

The Pads do not want DP #6. How petty.

"Power on the corners, speed and defense up the middle, consistent starting pitching and power arms in the bullpen," Moore says. This is the direction. It isn't ground-breaking. But those 19 words have been a pretty good blueprint for baseball teams. Those 19 words are what Dayton Moore wants for the Royals.

Thats what I want for the Dodgers.

This is Saito's 6th straight appearance in a non save situation.

Is this a longest stretch for a closer.

How much longer before Saito is used in a save situation?

277 - I am of the opinion that Ozzie will eventually talk his way out of the job, and missing the playoffs this year will not help his cause.

I have no beef with Little. And if he doesn't get to the playoffs, the media can't micro-analyze every pitching change he makes (or doesn't make).

281- as soon as the Dodgers get him one

Keep hope alive, Dave!

Will Russell Martin get blamed for not being able to throw out base stealers?

I can't believe how horrible the Times sports section has become; I now get home delivery of USA Today. Anyway, Plashke's article today was completely inane and pushed me into writing my first ever letter/email to a writer. If his and Simers crap passes for sports journalism and commentary in this city, it is no wonder that many sports fans here in LA just don't seem to get it (of course, I exclude the readers of this great Dodger Thoughts blog-site):

"Dear Bill,

Do you really think that all, most, or even a majority of Dodger fans are so short-sighted and in need of instant gratification that they would rather have a few playoff games this year, most likely a first-round loss, and in return see an undermining of the next few seasons? Perhaps the beachball throwing and drunken fans might be behind this plan, but I have to believe there are many of us that would support seeing young guys play, and know (or at least hope) that a strong foundation is being built.

Hope - that is what sports is all about. In Pittsburgh and Kansas City, there is no hope. None, Zero, Zilch. Here, as soon as the confetti got swept up, there would be much less hope for the next few years should strong minor league prospects be dealt for two months of Greg Maddux, et al in a probably vain attempt to become first-round playoff exiters. In any case, how can you expect to get Soriano, Abreu, Lee, etc for non-Kemp/Ethier/Broxton-type players?

There is little logic to your argument, and it insults many fans who are more than willing to take a medium to long term look at the team. I grew up in Philly and have had pretty much nothing but misery for the last 23 years as a sports fan. But hope - not quick fixes - keeps me coming back every season. Living in LA and becoming a Dodger fan for the past 8 years, I've seen the New York mentality of "never rebuild/always compete" and this approach has been not much better than a sham. Its nice in theory, but other than the Yankees, it just doesn't work. If the team would be honest and admit to a rebuilding effort and then stick to it, I think the fans would enthusiastically support it over the alternate of an unending morass of mediocrity. The real fans would understand, perhaps the beachball throwers would still go to games (or better yet, they would stay home), and all could enjoy some seasons of hopeful prosperity.

Granted, nothing is ever certain, but you can't build a bridge to the future if the foundation and footings ahead of you are not solidly built."

278 Bob, is this your version of Soupy Sales pitch.

Bruce Bochy appealed Jae Seo's non-save as well. He's just that kind of guy.

282 - and so, Go Tigers!

285 Nope, not when you are on the cover of Baseball America.

282. I dont think so. Ozzie won a World Series ring, for a team that hadnt won since like 1918. I think he'll live off that for quite awhile.

C'mon Josh. DP #6. Right now.

You're dead to me Josh.

But my list is full.

If I had Saito on my fantasy team, I would be pretty upset.

Dodger fans now have to go to Hooters and buy the house wings.

Does everyone have to kill their trade value all at once?

Even Saito has been affected!

259 - those are ridiculous double plays

Martinez-Vizcaino-Karros-Martinez-Bonilla

That's a 1-6-3-1-5

Vizcaino-Young-Eisenreich-Bonilla-Vizcaino

That's a 6-4-3-5-6

It's amazing what terrible baserunning will get you.

I'm bored.

It's better that Saito have a bad game now rather than in one that is meaningful.

I typed that with a straight face!

Today's Dodger Thoughts pop quiz. How closely were you paying attention to this thread?
---
"Have you ever seen him speak? The man's literally insane, you can see it in his eyes."

This statement refers to:

A) Grady Little
B) Jim Tracy
C) Ned Colletti
D) Bill Plaschke
E) Lyndon LaRouche

296 - wasn't that affected when Ned twice made trades with the Devil Rays? I mean, there's an ex-Cub factor, why shouldn't there be an ex-Ray factor?

291 - Not if he keeps calling sportswriters derogatory names. I think he can't help himself when he shoots his mouth off, especially when he thinks he's bulletproof.

289 - The Tigers are pulling away. I'm saying "Go Twins" or, gulp, "Go Yankees?".

At least tonight we can be spared another agonizing game unless you want to torture yourself with replay.

So.

Um...

Yeah.

Any day now. A win will surely come our way. Yep. Any day now. Yepper. Uh huh.

SIGH

Saito's thrown 37 pitches in this meaningless 9th inning.

298 No comment on the Yankees pick up today.

A story comes to mind today...

Back when I worked for Disney, there was one particular day when the stock took a particularly bad dive -- a major investor sold his shares. We started talking about the terrible price and I got frustrated, asking my boss -- mostly rhetorically -- "How low can it possibly go?"

He responded, "Zero."

I think of that when things get bad. How many games can the Dodgers possibly lose? All of them.

300 E. What do I win?

300 The answer is E) but credit will also be given for D).

305 He threw everyday in Japan, he's fine.

I have nothing against Grady Little either, some moves maybe but that's about it.

296- Saito can't go scoreless forever. Let him get his runs when it doesn't matter.

There's no game tomorrow so what would the Dodgers be saving him for?

Ned's Midas/Medusa ratio is decreasing rapidly.

307 That's why shorting is so risky. There is no theoretical limit to the potential loss.

Play all the kids. Every day. Martin, Kemp, Ethier, Aybar, put Billingsley at third, bring up Greg Miller, start Loney.

Beware 2B -
Kent is hurt, he plays 2B
Drew slumping - got banged up on a slide into 2B in Colorado
Nomar gets hurt covering 2B as a firstbasemen on a strange play.

302 - but you have to love the Kittycats. They haven't been good since Kirk Gibson was an active player. It would be good for Detroit to have a title after so long, and besides,

1) I hate Ozzie Guillen, a loudmouth and a jerk
2) The Twins remind me too much of the Braves: seriously flawed teams making it into the postseason because there are too many even stupider GMs in their division (at least this was the case from 2001-2004), getting an automatic 'bye in the playoffs because there's always an obviously better team in some other division.

------
And thus the beatdown ends.

309

I got that too, I was just so un motivated at the moment.

307. What was your title at Disney? I've always wanted to be in the investor relations wing of a firm, but those positions are quite difficult to be placed into if you have little experience.

Any advice?

Anyone think any changes are afoot - in the form of trading or releasing more veterans and replacing with less jaded/more eager youngsters from Vegas? Or will they just keep trying to ride this dark wave until the skies clear again?

Giovanni calmed us all down.

We'll call him Giovanni Curare from now on.

294 - I've got Saito on my fantasy team...and Penny!

Saito had a bit of the 'Baez' today.

322
I'm still partial to Done Giovanni...

320 I was a publicist. Now I work as a publicist for a different studio... nothing to do with investor relations.

307 Can't trust Gary Wilson anywhere. ;)

I've been a defender of Cruz in the past because he has a good bat but he's so erratic and getting tiresome that I really am on the "call Kemp back up/DFA Cruz" bandwagon that a few of you were already on. Enough's enough. Especially if Repko isn't ready to contribute.

The Twins remind me too much of the Braves: seriously flawed teams making it into the postseason

When you have Liriano/Santana, along with a young core like Hunter, Stewart, Mauer, Morneau, and Cuddyer..You dont really need much else to contend. The first two are even hurt.

I used to think that the ideal way to build a baseball team was to have above average players at every position. I now think the best way to ensure winning is to just have 4-5 great players, and then just fill in the rest of the roster with guys that are average. 2-3 great pitchers is sometimes all a team really needs.

316 I know we (And I mean we in DT land) thinks that is the best alternative, aside from you putting Chad at 3B but on this point I will agree with Plaschke to the point that we don't make up the 45,000 folks at the game and since no team ever publically says that they are rebuilding or going to a youth movement, that won't happen short of being forced to by injury.

Now, I do think that they could and should do something with Cruz, Jr. because he is just someone filling out a roster spot and I would not be surprised if Ned tries to find a taker for Lofton (probably after the trade deadline because Kenny will go through waivers)

Not wishing to seem like a pollyanna, but the most likely game for the Dodgers to win is the next one. And if they lose one, it's the one after that, and so on and so on and so on.

Past results are not guarantees of future performance.

286- Here Here! I agree 1000%! I have been waiting for the new generation of a team built with a strong farm. That is why the Dodgers had such success from the 50's to the 80's. Management got away from that and look at what has happened for the last decade and a half. I will cross my fingers until the trade deadline, hoping we don't sell our future prospects on a two month rental that will have little or no effect on this year anyway. Go after a SP and a big bat Free agent in the off-season to fill in the holes until the rebuilding is complete. If they make any trades, let them be getting the dead weight out of here for some pitching prospects.

worning track power by J.D.

QB- Matt Kemp (best athelete always at qb!)
RB- Scott Elbert
FB- Chad Billingsley
WR1- Joel Guzman
WR2- Preston Mattingly
TE- Clayton Kershaw
LOT- Jonathan Broxton
LOG- Delwyn Young
OC- Russ Martin
ROG-Casey Hoorelbeke
ROT- Jumbo Diaz

Drew swung at the first pitch his last two times up.

I think he's frustrated.

The worst job tonight, the call screener for the Dodger roundtable radio show.

Well, thank goodness that debacle is over.

330
Lots of teams say they are going into a rebuilding mode and marketing the young players.

Look at the websites for the Rockies and Marlins.

318 - The Tigers are ok and a nice story, but they did just recently give Maggs Ordonez 5/$75M, when everyone else was looking at 1-year deals for him.

Hard to root for that kind of stupidity.

Kemp would get killed if Broxton was playing LT.

331 Vegas built large hotels on that theory but most baseball betters I know will constantly bet on teams on losing streaks only because in baseball, ultimately you will win that game.

336 Yeah, that'll be fun. Let us non-Angelenos know some of the high, or low-lights of that discussion tonight. I hope people behave themselves enough to articulate the frustrations of the passionate fan, rather than just going psycho (or at least, for the poor screener's sake)

What's the biggest deficit in the standings an NL West team has had this year?

286.

completely agreed.

340

No way, Broxtons pretty "light" on his feet even though hes 288lbs.

Alberto Bastardo's the kicker.

I'd root for the Tigers, too, except for my coworker, an avid Tigers fan since way back, basically fills me in on whatever great thing they accomplished on that given day (hard to take especially right now). Although this comes more from a state of shock based on all the years of suffering through some really awful teams. Not that I can relate to that or anything.

333.

da**, I thought Drew might have broken that awful streak.

I'd put Russell Martin at Strong Safety.
He can play both ways.

Billingsley also at Inside LB'er.

Make of it what you will:

Since the June 27 trade...

Dodgers 7 - 18

Rays 9 - 15

Repko would be a WR or RB as well.

349

I agree. Russ Mart can be a Zibikowski clone, he is THAT edgey.

Are we going 3-4 or 4-3? Ive got the traveling DP circus of jacksonville in Hu and Abreu as my two corners.

336

I'm gonna listen to that, I wanna get a feel/vibe of management (pr)

334 -

PF -- Mark Hendrickson
PG -- Kenny Lofton

My baseball team is a nightmare.

Really, why do you say that?

Probably because we have more fun putting them in football positions than watching them play.

That would be a good reason.

The promise of May has faded into the reality of July/August. The Dodgers do not have the horses this year to make a serious run, not enough SP, an inconsistent bullpen, no power and sometimes shaky defense at SS and CF does not a champion make. Best is to give more of the Vegas kids some experience under their belt for next year, at least they will dive in the dirt and give their all, win or lose!!

354 Matt Kemp - SF, he was more known as a basketball player in high, playing on the same team as Duke's Sheldon Williams.

This season is all about the David Price or Matt Wieters race.

Both will be great mlb players, both play at strong college programs with great production and both have impressive tools.

Hey Underdog and others who aren't in SoCal.
I believe you can register on the KFWB site and listen on line. I know you can't listen to the games on their site, but I believe you can catch everything else.
And yeah, nothing seems to make that Detroit fan happy. Except maybe Texas hold em.

Steve Mason is a moron. Not only does he agree with Plaschke, but he'd trade LaRoche AND Kemp for Soriano.

How do these talk show hosts get jobs anyway?

360

Because they are uneducated about baseball.

How do these talk show hosts get jobs anyway?

They have interviews and send in audition tapes after seeing a want ad most of the time.

360 - Mason and Ireland have mancrushes on Jim Bowden. He comes on the show, and you'd think they were talking to Jessica Alba.

They literally think he is the best GM in the league.

I was already worried at how I was looking starting to get excited about football season way too early this year, and now my baseball team has become a football team, too. Sigh.

----

As for the Dodgers season at this point, I dunno why this dialogue from Futurama came to mind just now:
Professor Farnsworth (on phone): Oh how awful. Did he at least die peacefully?
(pause)
To shreds you say.. tsk tsk tsk. Well, how's his wife holding up?
{pause}
To shreds, you say.

359 Thanks! I may give a listen after all, then. Or not. Maybe I need a night off from feeling depressed about the Dodgers.

Because they are uneducated []

Remember back in the day when even average teams had at least 3-4 strong SP like the Orioles of 1970 or 71 that had 4 20-game winners, McNally, Cueller, Palmer and Dobson, Dodgers had Messersmith, Sutton, Hooton and Rau then later Tommy John. Or the Mets with Seaver, Koosman and Gentry.
Expansion has made those days a distant memory where finding 3 legit starters on one time is rare and 4 rarer still. I guess the last 4 starts to dominate a season was the Braves in the 90's, with Smoltz, Maddux, Glavine and Avery.

Yeah, average teams like the 70-71 Orioles.

Mason is now rambling on about Ireland being French.

But now, the first caller makes sense.

Repko is special teams all the way. He's the guy you use to break up the wedge.

370 - Viva Steve Tasker!

370

I agree, i hadn't thought about that. Repko is the wedge buster, SS, and probably half back on offense.

And now Mason claims Kemp will not be an everyday outfielder. Too much pot for Steve?

Somebody better teach the AP writer how to count:

"They are season-worst 7 1/2 games out of first place and 13 games under .500 in Grady Little's first season as manager."

It's just 8 games under .500!

373

Step away from the radio.

Take a deep breath.

373

Since you are listening, you should call in. And tell him I said he is a moron.

New developments on the ad on the sidebar!

Is this some weird new reality TV show being promoted?

368-Sorry didn't mean to infer the 70-71 Orioles were average, they were exceptional. But even teams that were average to above average would have at least 3 starters who can give you 7 quality innings on a regular basis. I was attempting to make a point about watered down SP due to expansion and how you rarely see 4 quality SP on the same team. Last year's White Sox starters were exceptional in the postseason but in the regular season two of the starters has ERA's around 4.0-4.5. That would not of made the cut back in the 70's.

375.

I'm not mad, I'm just trying to make light of our horrible season.

And as for the Price race, I'm not sure that we can out do the Pirates, Cubs, and Royals.

Repko would be my PR/KR.

Who could beat Repko in the 40yrd dash? I bet he could run a 4.6

Look out, Carl Everett has just been DFAd. As was said on the Griddle, Shin Shoo Choo and a PBTNL was traded the Indians for Ben Broussard.

I guess I was wrong when I said it would take too much to get Choo.

377 It's a ham-handed attempt at word-of-mouth advertising using a cool/funny/strange/fake web site. It's what happens when an advertising firm tries to recreate a real phenomenon, such as the buzz that "Snakes On A Plane" has received. In this case, the product is a cellular phone company.

From the sidebar ad:

People Against My Circle Foundation

Welcome to the People Against My Circle Foundation, or as I like to call it, the People Against My Circle Foundation. My attorney's the one who convinced me, against my better judgment, to put that more "user-friendly" acronym at the top, as it allegedly will bring more people to my site. Personally, I feel having it there severely undermines my other pending case against the ever-encroaching Acronym Industry via my other group, Americans Against Appalling Acronymization, but since I'm paying him $387 a minute, I will defer to his alleged lawyerly wisdom. But I digress.

Say, isn't there an AT&T ad online with Nomar in it?

With Wednesday's game scheduled for 12:10 p.m. PT, Little told his players not to report until 11 a.m.

"I'm just trying to do something a little different," said Little.

I hope that if I do a really poor job at work, my employer will let me sleep in too.

381 I think Choo (whose name sounds like something found on a Ralph Wiggums valentine card) had been surpassed on the M's by Adam (Not PacMan) Jones.

384 - You know, that's an easy shot to take, but it isn't really fair, is it? If you get home from work at midnight or so, many employers will occasionally cut you some slack if they can.

I'm sure these guys have been at the ballpark plenty during this losing streak. Trying something different sounds pretty reasonable to me.

341 Do you know the gambling term 'to Martingale'?

383

Were can I look that up? (the at&t show)

David Price has been absolutely dominant for Team USA this summer.

.33era 27IP 11H 1ER 5bb 41k

Nate, just for fun - everyone talks about 2007 and 2008 - why don't you give me your Dodger starting lineup for 2012.

Flanders ought to take a copy of his 25 man roster, scratch out the names Penny, Lowe, Billingsly, Ethier, and Martin. Under the remaining names he should write," taking offers...", and fax it to every other GM in the majors. He also shouldn't expect to get any sleep for awhile.

388 It's Nomar and Mia:

http://www.seehowtheylive.com/miaNomar_baseball.php

391 Can we add Brox to your list? Otherwise, I'm all for that.

I dont think Nomar will be coming back anytime soon, at least until he's perfectly healthy.

I cant see him playing through pain, putting up just average or below average numbers. It might help the team, but it wouldnt help Nomar's free agent status.

Kent has to be ecstatic he signed his deal before the season.

393 Sure can! An oversight on my part, I should have listed him, he's certainly worth saving. Now we only have 19 to get rid of!!!!

391 - I agree except I would still scratch out Nomar's name as well. Personally I would like to see him come back at 3rd base next year. LaRoche's shoulder injury slowed his development a little this year, I would want to make sure of LaRoche's health before handing 3B to him fulltime. Nomar is a heck of a hitter and I am reluctant to just say farewell to a guy that averages 1 hit in 3 AB. We haven't had too many of those guys wearing the LA blue!

391 Would like Saenz name scratched off the list, too - since he's really valuable off the bench. Otherwise, sounds good to go! (Though I'm also partial to keeping Repko around, too...)

394 - Seems like a perfect time to DL Nomar and see what Loney's learned in his time in Vegas.

It'd be nice to be able to move one of Ledee, Lofton or Cruz, and get Kemp back up too.

Why not?

396/397 - No! No one over the age of 28 is safe!

399
It's just like Berkeley in the 1960s!

397 Really? I'm for a Tomato sale. Good guy to have around, but he's got to be more valuable to someone else. Someone in contention. Someone in the American League.

You know, just in case it doesn't happen otherwise, why don't we fax the list to the other GMs?

401 Olmedo Saenz can also help the Dodgers in 2007. He has his role, he does it cheaply, and as well as anyone else in the league.

OK, I'll add Nomar to my list on the condition he agrees to play first or third, wherever we need him at. Between Loney, Nomar, and LaRoache, we have coverage and back-up at first and third and Loney can play a little outfield if we need it. Sorry, no Saenz on my list. He started out the year great but as we went deeper into the season he tapered off badly. By September he won't have anything left. I have always advocated having young players who are going to get better on the bench as pinch hitters instead of old players who are only going to get worse.

400 I know the director of the documentary of that name, if anyone needs to doublecheck with him. Actually, that sounds more like LOGAN'S RUN to me.

401 Maybe, but I'd rather they not give away a few of the more valuable veterans. The kids can't do it all. I like his versatility, and people on the team all seem to love him. The others I can bid adieu to.

399 - The world of Logan's run according to you. It's always good to have one or two vets around to advise the kids during the rough spots. How many players in LA Dodger history outside of Tommy Davis have a career BA near .333. How can you dismiss that offhand so easily? I still vote for Nomar to stay!

Saenz tapered off badly? I assume that's not based on today's game? I still stand by my plea. Not this is anything other than a fun exercise to distract us from reality anyway. ;-)

404-My apologies, I wrote my last post while your post came through agreeing regarding Nomar. Matter settled! Nomar not on "Taking offers" sheet to the GM's!

I find it funny that last year guys like Plaschke absolutely buried Depo...but yet Flanders somehow gets a free pass.

If we don't sell off guys like Lofton, Baez, Saito, Cruz, Ledee in the next few days I'll be severely disappointed. If we're not offering arbitration then there's no reason NOT to trade them.

Yankees ruined Fasano :(

Nomar will be a free agent, Lony Gwynn is ready to play first, and the Dodgers ain't got a chance at the playoffs. Worse rentals than him have brought in great players in the past

411

I don't think "Lony Gwynn" is catching on with the masses.

Fasano now looks like a portly Vincent Schiavelli, may he rest in peace.

413

Sal needs to go to a team that appreciates his manly italian facial hair.

hey, if everyone on DT here can go over to the dodgersblog and tell them to spend some of the 3 million saved on the odalis deal to sign Alex White and Nick Akins, maybe they will feel the public pressure and succumb!

Maybe not, but at least our battlecry will be heard (or just my battlecry).

Juventus

Ill do it, even though I know nothing about these guys.

someone brought up the idea of trading Nomar...

now, if it brings us a young stud pitcher, do you do it?

Hell yeah!

We should trade Nomar to the Twins (tell him to play third) for Matt Garza!!

415 -- I endorsed your two picks, and gave them a third idea.

Or to the Orioles for Brandon Erbe!!

Or to the Orioles for Brandon Erbe!!

now, if it brings us a young stud pitcher, do you do it?

Yes.
This season is over.
Bottom line we have no starting pitching prospects coming up anytime soon, and we need 2 starting pitchers for next season and i mean legit starting pitchers, not tomko types.
Either sign both zito and schmidt or sell nomar for a legit starting pitcher and sign 1 of zito or schmidt.
I'm not worried at all about the offense in the future, but this franchise needs legit starting pitching for the future.
And you can never have enough pitching, so there shouldn't be any discussion about blocking elbert or whoever else.

Lousy cyberspace tubes!

412 You're right. I guess I should stop using it. Sigh, if only I could create a name like 3.5 or Lucille that others will use...

BTW, what is Loney at now. Last I heard, he was at .391. Has he passed .400 yet?

427 He's at .380 currently

A couple of days ago some of us fine Dodger Thoughts contributors suggested that we should abandon the season only if we were swept by the Padres (with an implication that this scenario wasn't realistic).

Well, it happened. Now what? The season seems to have collapsed inward upon itself, like a building scheduled for demolition. Several days ago I described the sensation of watching the Dodgers's season slip between our fingers. Now I feel as though the whole thing is pretty hopeless. This actually feels even worse than last season at this time. Glad Flanders is getting a free pass, I guess. Everyone deserves a couple of years to iron out their Master Plan, no? No? Only certain people? Hello? Anyone home?

Grrr.

Ok, I just checked and he's fallen to .380. (sigh) Kemp, however, is at .385.

426 Don't press. A good one will come to you, and it shall be embraced by the DT masses.

my nickname for Martin, Backstop Bacon, didn't catch on either.

Can McCourt trade Ned for Larry Beinfest?

I actually like Backstop Bacon. It just sounds too much like a Hanna Barberra cartoon character. Me, I'm still partial to Russeldinho.

Let's say that both the Padres and the Reds keep up their current paces and end up at around 86-87 wins. In order for the Dodgers to get to 86 wins they would have to go 39-20 for the rest of the season, a .661 winning percentage versus their current .461. It's possible that after going 8 games under .500 over the first 102 games they will go 19 games over in their final 59, but its not likely. If we make any more trades for this season it is like selling your car and then putting the money on green in roulette in the hopes that you can finally buy a house if you should happen to win. Trade the vets and let the kids play, Loney, Guzman, Young and Laroche in the show!

I would like to agree that Grady Little has had little affect on the Dodgers poor play, however, there are decisions being made that do not allow me to do so. First, we begin the season with Little telling the media that he would be happy with a 7-7 start. What? And then his treatment of J.D. Drew. I think it sets a terrible tone for the rest of the team for a manager to coddle a player like this. J.D. Drew is like 30 years old...he treats him like he's fifty. Where we years ago had a warrior like Gibson patrolling the outfield (and the clubhouse) we got this softy in right, albeit only four times a week. Should we abandon the season after the sweep? I don't know. Should we abandon #7? Certainly.

1. Is there a picture of the defiled Sal around?

2. What does the gambling term "to martindale" mean, or did I miss the joke?

Some of us create nicknames like Ghame Over and then one year later find that name as relevant as joking "Where's the Beef?"

Managers may make the difference betwen first and second place. Managers may affect the outcome of playoff games. Managers may cost your team 5 or 6 games.

Managers don't mean the difference between good and horrible. They just don't. And the Dodgers, at this point, are horrible.

437

There's a picture of Sal on the YES website.

Alternatively, you can watch ESPN and watch the Yankees play. Fasano is starting.

Didnt Kirk Gibson miss a ton of games while in LA?

Citing Gibson, as an example of how not to treat JD Drew, doesnt seem appropriate.

438 Walter Mondale, is that you?

437 Martingale Sam, unless you are playing Wink. :)

The Martingale betting strategy is to double your bet each time you lose until you finally win a bet. The theory being sooner or later you have to win a bet. The problem is that depending on your bankroll, you may run out of money quickly before the tide turns. Plus, if you actually do win a bet in time, all you've won is the amount of the original bet. It's a classic losers strategy.

442

I'm tanned, rested, and ready for a comeback!

444 Frank McCourt will lower payroll. So will I. The difference is, I just told you.

Gibson missed a ton of games with real injuries. Real injuries that came from playing when a normal player would and should sit out. What injury is it that is causing Drew to miss as many games as he does? My point is this team seems to lack the toughness Gibson personified. When the person who is supposed to be your best player has as many mysterious ailments as Drew has it can't have a positive effect on the mental makeup of your team.

Giants up by one in the bottom of the seventh. Nationals have runners at 2 and 3, 2 outs. And Alou IBBs Nick Johnson to get to Austin Kearns.

As locked in as Johnson is right now, not the decision I'd make. Kearns has a pretty darn good eye.

Now that I think about it, Jaimie McCourt is the perfect Geraldine Ferraro.

It is also why Casinos have table max and min bets. Eventually you can't double anymore (though usually you max out your wallet before you max out the table).

Walter Mondale and KFWB are a perfect match, since neither of them played in the suburbs.

But Kearns pops out.

Oh no, not the mysterious broken wrist again. This has been a bad day.

For the second night in a row, near-journeyman Micah Bowie faces Bonds with the game in doubt (last night DC up one, tonight DC down). Last night Bonds laced one to left and Soriano made probably his best catch of the year to get it. Tonight . . .

. . . Bonds grounds out to third.

Hey Sam, is there any talk, anywhere, that the new ownership group may change the name to Senators?

Thx Marty.

455 I haven't heard anything like that. There was some talk right when the name was announced that the eventual owners could change it if they wanted, but I think Nationals has taken hold pretty well and been well received. I'd be very surprised.

Now a merch-sales-inducing uniform redesign? Sure.

It was all a ruse!
Right?

Adrian Beltre plays everyday through pain. No wonder his teams always win?!

Likewise, Drew never plays through pain.

Its of course no surprise that Beltre is in the playoffs every year, and Drew is sitting at home...

Er no...

To Martingale is a system that MAY work for a little while but Bob's Gambler's Fallacy trumps it. I've done it at the roulette table once or twice. You definitely want to bet on near even money propositions like Red or Black, or Odd and Even. It really doesn't make any difference whether you bet on the same one or switch sides; the odds are the same either way. I guess I was lucky; started bets at $1, made about $20 in an hour. Too boring to entertain me though.

Here's a link to the Nomar/Mia video, actually an ATT advertisement using them and Dion Sanders. Didn't do much for me...

http://www.seehowtheylive.com/miaNomar_baseball.php

455, 457

If I recall correctly from the time of the move, the Rangers own the rights to the "Senators" name, and thus there would have to be some sort of compensation.

Strangely enough, at least according to Wikipedia, the original Washington Nationals became the Minnesota Twins, so I don't know about that part of things. :)

What if you tripled the bet every time instead of doubled it? If you had about... 300 grand and bet 10 dollars to start, you would win 99.944 percent of the time, and win ascending amounts of money. On the other hand... you could 1 in 2000 times you lose everything. Can you imagine on the tenth bet when you would have to bet almost 200K on black or red. Would you be thinking: "Well I can't lose again." or "It isn't my night, maybe I should cut my losses."?

Against my better instincts, I turn on my radio...

Overs and unders on how many times McCourt says "fans":

53

I am not a Drew fan but I have no doubt that he has pain and gets injured easily and frequently. (How about those adverbs, Bob?) Injuries sap the strength out of a body and make it age faster. Drew isn't faking it or being coddled too much, he is just used up. He should talk to Darren Dreifort about it. He should call it a career and go home to enjoy his family and whatever capabilities he has left. It won't be getting any better.

457 Thanks

465
What the ...

There's no run to make. There are eight teams ahead of us. Ned can do the math. Maybe.

462 See comment above on house and table limits. No doubt there are casinos who would allow it because you would lose more to them. They love players with systems. Look around the casino; see that elegant hotel, great restaurants, a gadzillion people on the payroll? How do you think they pay for all that? Hint: They aren't EVER losing money. Like your mother told you, it is foolish to gamble. I live in Nevada and I haven't gambled since I moved up here three years ago. No temptation at all.

He said he wanted to SELL you idiot! Unbelievable.

The plane has crashed into the mountain. The season is over. Please, everybody, come to terms with this. We have plenty of "Veteran Leadership" chips like Lofton, Saenz, reverse Ramon, Toby Hall, and Izzy. Please, Ned, you Super Mario lookin' fool, trade these guys away, stockpile some younger players, and gear up for free agency and next season.

Please. I beg of you. The Dodgers are dead, long live the Dodgers.

470
War is peace. Love is hate. Buy is sell.

470- haha, I know. Ned is the only one who wants to buy. I love how the host of the show misconstrued the caller's words completely.

This ain't no disco
It ain't no country club either
This is LA!

Nationals win with two in the bottom of the ninth. Zimmerman a RBI single with runners at first and second; Johnson walks to load the bases with one out; Kearns walk off sac fly.

Caller: Superstars win championships! Laker rant..blah...

I didn't realize that Dodger fans were so stupid.

The Entitlement Theory of Organization Building.

472 Orwellian. Ned probably has an inflated valuation for all those veteran All Stars he collected.

I'm a little confused by the comments. Is Colletti on the radio saying he wants to add some pieces and make a run?

All through the last twenty years, where we haven't won anything, we've had leaders.

And now on Line 4, we have Bill Bavasi! What's up, Bill?

"Well, I wanted to talk about Willie Bloomquist with Ned, but everytime I call, he's out clubbing with Andy Friedman. Ned, what about that Bloomquist/Guzman deal we talked about?"

"Can we get cash considerations?"

479 Would anyone believe him if he did?

I believe the Dodgers are now one game behind the Nationals in the loss column.

One wonders if Jim Bowden is thinking, man, if I can just add a couple of pieces, might be able to make a run here.

479

"We always want to win"

"We're as disappointed as you are"

"We want to play Championship Baseball in every day and every way"

"I've talked to every major league team"

"I'm flying to Acapulco for a month with Andy in October, since we don't have anything else to do."

Well, OK, I made that last one up, but the others capture the general tenor of the conversation. It's obviously a cocoon not unlike those the major political parties have built up around themselves, since the first caller gave a very sincere, heartfelt plea that the Dodgers not do anything stupid, and the host twisted it into a desperate plea for Ned to work his miracle magic.

482 "behind" = "better than"

For those following along online, Drew's 0 for 200 slump was caused by Lofton and Penny yelling at each other today.

The Phillies are in between the Dodgers and the Nats in the conference standings.

Contrary to one of the callers. Superstars don't win championships.

No one on the Sox last year was a superstar.

A little bit, I think the Nationals little five game winning streak illustrates the point Jon was trying to make about buyers and sellers. Whatever made sense five games ago makes sense now. Only a lunatic (though Jon wouldn't use such a word) would decide how to approach building her club based on the random two weeks that happen to precede the trade deadline.

Ned actually gives a good answer about developing a #1 pitcher, but ruins it by threatening to trade for one.

Thx Steve.

487 - yeah. Unless you count Frank Thomas, and he spent most of the year on the DL

Caller: Superstars win championships! Laker rant..blah...

I would agree with that.

Shaq>>>>>>3 marginal players.
Albert Pujols>>>>>3 marginal players.

Professional baseball and basketball is more about quality, and less about depth.

Football is the only sport where you really need good players at every single position in order to win consistently.

489 He didn't indicate that he thinks Maddux or Rodrigo Lopez are #1s did he?

493 -- Let's put it this way. Mark Hendrickson did not come up.

Are we resigning Nomar?

Well, maybe.

Ned, abandoning his past strategy, is not going to make a trade just to make a trade.

I think resigning Nomar depends upon how much Colletti likes Nomar's french toast.

Spotted at McCovey Chronicles: "Negative comments will result in the user's IP being redirected to watch Francisco Liriano clips on YouTube when they try to log on to this site."

It's probably not a good day, week, or month to try and figure out the Dodger Thoughts equivalent )(not that it takes much figuring).

Ned wants to put lipstick on a pig.

Come Monday
Hello Jose Mesa, Roberto Hernandez, and/or Greg Maddux

Good bye Delwyn Young, Greg Miller, Tony Abreu

I would agree with that.

Shaq>>>>>>3 marginal players.
Albert Pujols>>>>>3 marginal players.

Professional baseball and basketball is more about quality, and less about depth.

Football is the only sport where you really need good players at every single position in order to win consistently.

Well, great pitching + decent power offensive players that play good defense>>>>>>>> Pujols with mediocre pitching.

Just look at the Tigers.

That was a heck of a good phone call. She can do the math. I think the Cody Ross angst is kind of overblown, but she knew what she was talking about. She even mentioned Wilson Betemit.

At least Ned hasn't mentioned that he's close to finalizing a contract extension for Baez for 3 years, $30M. Or has he?

501
Did she pronounce Betemit correctly?

Unless I missed it, they have yet to discuss the number of people Ned mingles with at parties.

An intelligent caller faints

-The season is over, need to think to the future
-Should have kept Cody Ross over Jose Cruz
-Any chance of trading for Wilson Betemit (I like that idea)

Ned's response:
Cruz had more of a proven track record

Ned is getting hot.

Is this on a par with the time when Jackie Autry talked about how the Angels were building for the future because they had signed Chico Walker?

502 - please, some people are eating dinner!

505 -- Ned also said he knows everything about everything and he's not going to give up Ethier, Billingsley, or Martin.

JtD and LaRoche have not come up once.

I believe she nailed the word "Betemit."

That was a good phone call. I wonder how she got through.

500 But the Tigers don't have great pitching. They have mediocre pitching, great defense, and Jeremy Bonderman.

I really can't blame Ned for choosing Jose Cruz over Cody Ross.

Convergence of the radio show and the Yankees/Rangers game see-sawing back and forth make Toaster popular now.

Three calls since the Toaster burned out:

1Q: Repko looks good in a skirt and pom-poms and he's probably easy. Why don't we play him and bench all those old, married hags?

1A: We all love Repko and all our problems basically stem from him being on the DL.

2Q: Will you move Spring Training?

2A: We love Vero Beach. We hate Vero Beach. We'll let you know.

3Q: We're not done. The 1988 Dodgers were 47-55 and look what they did. Nobody cares about the next 60 years as long as you leapfrog the eight teams in the standings ahead of us and win the world series.

3A: [Not answering question] We would trade for a stud #1 pitcher but there isn't one out there.

508- she must have lied to the screener
I'm guessing it went something like this:
"Ned is doing a great job. I am so glad that Stuipdesta is gone. Lofton's leadership has been invaluable to the team. Nomar was the best pickup of the offseason. How did Ned steal Hendrickson from the Devil Rays? Go Izzy!"

Q: Why did Odalis Perez hang around so long?

A: I tried to trade Odalis Perez for as long as I've been here. I couldn't find a taker in Major League Baseball, so I finally traded him to Kansas City.

Q: So dumb that only Bill Plaschke could understand it.

A: Even dumber.

Caller: What was Depodesta thinking when he traded Lo Duca and Beltre? They were the heart and soul of the team!

I want my 1 hour back.

511
Obviously Steve was being facetious, but for infomational purposes, the 1988 Dodgers were 59-43 at this point in the season.

They lost Game 102 14-6 to the Astros.

Danny Heep pitched the last two innings.

Q: So dumb that only Bill Plaschke could understand it.

A: Even dumber.

We have no secrets here. I laughed.

The call screener sure did a fantastic job.

So Ned didnt address the Hendrickson for Navarro trade? I'd love to hear his reasoning for Martin being granted an untouchable, and Navarro dealt for a D-Ray, when the players are so very similar.

They really took a call about Loduca and Beltre? Some LA fans really dont deserve a winning team. Or a high school diploma, for that matter.

Sorry about the site troubles. The servers needed a kick in the pants with a little bigger boot than normal today.

But the Tigers don't have great pitching. They have mediocre pitching, great defense, and Jeremy Bonderman.

Mediocre? I'd give them a little more and say decent. Sure their defense is great, which contributes a great deal to their league-best .249 opponent's batting average and 3.70 team ERA. But they're also tied for 7th with least HR allowed (101 over 906 IP), and their BB/9 is the 7th best in the bigs. Their K/9 rate is middle of the run, granted, but I wouldn't mind that staff. I especially like Justin Verlander in that rotation. Their pitching staff is also tied for second with only 8 blown saves.

The Minnesota Twins, though, have only blown 5. With Nathan in the bullpen, and with Liriano and Santana in that rotation, and
with the only pitching staff that has a TEAM K/BB of over 3, I'd pick Minnesota.

Oddly enough, the Cubs' K/9 is actually better (7.54 vs 7.41 for Minnesota). Too bad their BB/9 is 4.22 to Minnesota's 2.19.

I will merely say that McCourt's answer was probably as cowardly as any ever given to any question in the history of mankind. Frank appears to talk a good game when he's getting profiled in the glossy magazine, but it's a different story when he's actually asked to do it.

I tried to be patient with him, but my patience with him, just from a personal standpoint, and without regard to his baseball philosophy (which remains in question), is up.

If you can't even summon the courage to defend not signing the reigning American League champion for organization killing two years later, you have a problem.

519 -- Oh yeah. I meant to bring that up. Justin Verlander is not mediocre. If Colletti had Justin Verlander, he would probably hold out for Emil Brown. He's that good.

Look at the perheprials of all their pitchers. Except for Bonderman, they're all in the 6 K/9, 2.5-1 K/BB ratio and 1 HR per nine range. That spells mediocrity.

If you can't even summon the courage to defend not signing the reigning American League champion for organization killing two years later, you have a problem.

??????????

Is that a reference to Vladimir Guerrero?

merely?

521 Right now, he is. His numbers look very similar to 2004 Jeff Weaver with a little more walks.

523
Yo, Adrian!

523 I'm guessing Beltre.

Got it, I think Steve was being very circuitous there.

ESPN ticker reports that Beltre has his 9th home run of the year tonight.

Is he out too?

525 -- He's 21!

523 -- When asked the final question, McCourt said something like "I can't get into another man's mind and figure out what he was doing or thinking at any time" which is absurd. On one hand he's supposed to be this hands-on, excited owner who is bringing "Championship Baseball" to Los Angeles and then on the other hand, he can't even summon up the gumption to say "Hey, and on Beltre, you're pretty much up in the night, because we all sat around and debated for weeks, and finally we just decided to go another way, and gosh darn it if he hasn't turned out to be a gigantic pantload on the Seattle roster." It was a cowardly answer, made more so because of all his big talk about accountability and courage.

They have mediocre pitching, great defense, and Jeremy Bonderman.

Mediocre pitching? They have the best staff ERA in baseball. Sure, the Angels have great starting staff, and the Tigers don't exactly have Santana-Lirano, but I'd take Bonderman-Verlander right after the Twins.

And please don't tell me that Verlander, who has a 2.69 ERA, only 111 hits in 130.1 innings, and 30 K's in his last 36.2 innings, is mediocre.

Seeing him pitch, I'm just amazed he doesn't K 10 per 9, he can throw 100 MPH with movement, has an incredible curve, and a great change.d

That also reminds me: the last home run hit by Jeff Kent was against Francisco Liriano

JD Drew's last homer was off Gavin Floyd.

2004 Weaver: 6.29 K/9, 2.28 K/BB, .77 HR/9, 1.06 GB/FB
2006 Verlander: 6.08 K/9, 2.44 K/BB, .82 HR/9, 1.21 GB/FB

I miscalculated Weaver's K/BB, but both pitchers are very similar.

Will Josh Rawitch lose his job when the McCourts clean house again?

If anything, their PR people deserve a raise for keeping the heat off them.

Eventually, even the best spin artist will be of no assistance.

530 Yes, he will be very good. Right now, he's an average pitcher supported by strong defense.

531 The reason they have the lowest ERA is because their defense makes their mediocre pitchers look better.

If sabermetrics is really going to insist that Verlander = Weaver, then that is going to have to be a dealbreaker. But thanks for all the fish.

534.

What about hits per 9?

Look, Verlander has been K'ing people better lately, at 7.48 per 9. Besides, this is Justin's rookie year no? He's got the stuff to be a great K pitcher.

But in any case, Verlander is NOT mediocre, and has prevented many runs.

I will merely say that McCourt's answer was probably as cowardly as any ever given to any question in the history of mankind.

Merely, eh?

501 - "That was a heck of a good phone call. She can do the math."

Was that caller Danica?

If were going to go all old school about the questions, couldnt anyone have asked if Milton Bradley was dealt as a direct order from Frank, or if Colletti decided that on his own....

Inquiring minds want to yada yada yada...

539 -- Had we but world enough and time...

538 Hits per nine is the thing that's most effected by defense.

Let me make this clear. I'm not saying Verlander=Weaver. Justin Verlander will be one of the best pitchers in baseball.

I'm saying Justin Verlander, in his age 21 season, should have a much higher ERA according to his perheprials.

I think the world is going to explode.

541
And why did Colletti refuse to offer Dessens arbitration, only to trade for him less than a year later, when his price had gone up, despite the fact that he hadn't pitched any better?

I'm saying Justin Verlander, in his age 21 season, should have a much higher ERA according to his perheprials.

That doesn't make him mediocre.

This Dodger season is so horrid, it should be referred to as the "Toaster server" of seasons.

I kid, Ken. You're a gem.

Verlander has a very high VORP.

543.

Or making good pitches. If you have mediocre stuff, aren't you going to have more hits than a guy with great stuff like Verlander?

Higher than Jeff Weaver's?

515 - Did Ken Caminiti hit his first career home run in that game?

546 Okay, mediocre might be too harsh. Above average?

Here's the AL league averages:
6.38 K/9
2.00 K/BB
1.14 HR/9

544 Lord knows it's hot enough to go at any second.

534 - Given that Verlander's a 23-year-old rookie, and was a conference rival of Orenduff in the CAA, I don't think he's peaked, whereas Weaver clearly had in 2004.

552.

But his ERA must be way over 120+.

Look, he might just be average if you look just at periphials or whatever, but you can't call him that if you look at reality, like runs prevented. What, are you gonna call Maddux mediocre in his prime now?

545 - Good heavens. Does this season lack enough frustrating topics that we have to invent them out of whether arbitration should have been offered to Elmer Dessens?

Is it not clear to all that this trade was made not because Colletti recognized Dessens' undeniable talent and his own mistake in allowing Elmer to escape unarbited, but rather because Odalis Perez stunk out loud and had become, in Steve's words, a "gigantic pantload" on the Dodger roster?

554 I give up.

After our twelve-step Sabernomics Anonymous programs (with program sponsors Buster Olney and Bob Keisser), Shimmin and I are going to hit the road as SABR refugees, running from our past.

555 You're arguing against basic sabermetic tenents on pitching. Please, please read up on the subject. Runs prevented is the most important stat, but its far more variable than the perhiprials.

Maddux wasn't mediocre in his prime becuase he had 4-5 K/BB and .25 HR/9 ratios. That means stud through and through.

520 "If you can't even summon the courage to defend not signing the reigning American League champion for organization killing two years later, you have a problem."

would that be Vlad? i missed the "interview"

Verlander is 8th in all of baseball in VORP with an adjusted era of 3.12. He is still very good even without the strikeouts, which will come in due time I am sure. He only allows 2 walks a game on average.

555. A pitcher that doesnt get hitters out himself (through K's), just isnt seen as dominant even if his ERA is low. It may be that they induce such weak contact that when batters put the ball into play against them, they are easy outs.

But its just rare for a pitcher to be dominant, but not K people. There are a few left handers that can do it, but they are few and far between.

Thats why I'm very concerned with Billingsley's K rate. It was ok in the minors, but at the MLB level he just isnt getting the strike outs. To be a #1, 90% of pitchers need those K's. They cant rely on inducing weak contact against every hitter, and letting their defense do all the work. Just doesnt happen often.

557 - Victory is mine!

Of course, if you want to make it as simple as possible.

A pitcher that doesnt give up HR's, and doesnt BB people, will be probably very successful, regardless of the k's.

560 -- see 530. Sorry, everybody. What I gain in outrage I lose in clarity.

When I first read 520, I thought it referred to Jose Lima/

566 -- You did not get to hear?

Nope - you all are my ears. I bet McCourt scheduled the interview knowing exactly when we were doing cookies and milk with the kids.

Sounds like The Education of Little Tree is still stuck in neutral.

You can't expect 21 year olds to be strikeout masters right out of the gate. Not everyone is Francisco Liriano.

Derek Lowe was really good for a period of time and he didn't strike people out. The aforementioned Greg Maddux as well.

Trades and interviews timed to coincide with Weisman meals and snacks.

Jon, could you provide a meal plan for July 31?

570 - hemlock, arsenic, and probably old lace, considering who Colletti is going to get.

555. You could also think of it in this way:

If your pitcher gives up an average amount of HR/9, an average amount of BB/9, an average amount of K/9, but somehow is giving up a very low H/9 number, something is wrong. Its either luck, or its the defense behind the pitcher that is playing great.

You suggest that Verlander might just be making great pitches, and inducing weak contact, and thus thats why his H/9 is low. However, if that were true--that Verlander was inducing weak contact---that should also show up in his HR/9. If you are getting weak contact all the time, your HR/9 would be extremly low too. Right? However, Verlander is giving up HRs, around the same number as what Weaver did in 2004.

Its basically Verlander's defense and ball park, that is making him appear to be better than how he's actually pitching.

So Ned said hes going to do something to improve the team? Maybe he means trading Izturis.

I did not have a chance to listen to the roundtable. Did they say anything about what the plan was going toward the trade deadline? Do they now think this season is lost if you read between the lines of their companyspeak? The Dodgers should reload in the offseason, find a free agent pitcher or two, preferably starters and one extra bat. The Angels on the other hand should go after a big bat now as with a solid starting staff and Shields and K-Rod in the back end of the pen, they could have a shot at a run to the series provided they shore up their defense in the last two months. The two teams are in two entirely different circumstances, Dodgers have fallen well off the pace, are banged up and do not have a surplus of arms, starting or relieving to take them to the promised land this year.
The Angels might be one bat away from making a serious run though Colon went down again today with a problem in his right elbow.

Yeah, Maddux's career K/9 is 6.23.

Just for the sake of thinking of something happier, which year was better, Koufax '63 or Koufax '65? The homer rate in 63 was better, and he had 11 shutouts, but he had 382 strikeouts in 65.

Did they say anything about what the plan was going toward the trade deadline?

Not going to trade the future. Mentioned specifically Ethier, Martin, and Billingsley. I took it as clear confirmation that they were off the table. Only one "difference-maker" out there (did not say which one). Would trade the moon for a #1 starter.

Do they now think this season is lost if you read between the lines of their companyspeak?

Yes

571 - Now, now, no need for hyperbole. It should only take a couple of second-tier prospects to land Kirk Reuter.

569 - Remember Liriano was in the Giant organization and I wonder who made the call to trade him to get "A.J. Loudmouth", was it Sabean or Coletti? Hmmm!!!

From the Kirk Reuter B-R page:

...bought to you by Brad Stapleton, President. Woody, you were so much more than a pretty decent lefty. You were the 10th winningest lefty from 2001 to 2003. And you were my favorite Giant, behind Jeff Kent, superstar.

Look who's tied for the AL wildcard -The Twins tied the Sox and the Yanks are right there as well! What I wouldn't give to have Santana or Liriano on the Blue? Perchance, A Dream?!

Tenth-winningest lefty from 2001 to 2003?

If that doesn't merit a collectible plate from the Franklin Mint, I don't know what does.

575. I'm actually a big believer in HR rate. I think its extremely important, moreso than K/bb ratio.

580 - You wouldn't acquire them through a trade. You'd have to kidnap them.

574.

but they do have Saunders.

Okay, so this doesn't come back to haunt me, I'm going to make this clear one more time.

Verlander is having an equivalent season to Jeff Weaver right now. However, since Verlander is young, it is highly likely that he will be much better in future seasons. Justin Verlander does not equal Jeff Weaver.

558 - will there be a widescreen trainwreck involved? I might pay to see The SABR Fugitive if there was a bitchin' trainwreck.

562 - Maddux relied on a consistent hard sinker that induced groundballs. He never had a high K/9 but did baseball announcers in the 90's and this decade ever criticize him for that? No! They praised his intelligence and mastery of control of the strike zone and efficency of economy of pitches thrown. Of course, he and Glavine also got an extra 3-4 inches on the outside part of the plate which doesn't hurt.

574 - Colon hasn't been doing it for them this year, although Jered Weaver will give them quite a boost.

If you go to Angels.com and click on J Weaver on their depth chart, Jeff Weaver shows up. I clicked than and I wondered, how did his ERA get to 6 something?

To cover all my bases, Greg Maddux is a very, very good pitcher

Statistics can be adjusted for both age and context, that is the whole point. Verlander is not having an equivalent season to Jeff Weaver.

Furcal is not having an equivalent season to $39 million/three years.

Mentioned specifically Ethier, Martin, and Billingsley. I took it as clear confirmation that they were off the table

I understand Martin being off the table at this point. He's the only good catcher the Dodgers have left.

However, I dont think Billingsley or Ethier should be untouchable. I think they both should be on the table. I'd deal both of them for Carlos Zambrano and not think twice about it, if Ned was serious about acquiring a #1 starter.

It seems like we do this every month, but my untouchables would be Matt Kemp, Broxton, Martin. All the other prospects would be on the table. Of course, I'd deal anyone for Miggy Cabrera. But if we're just talking value, I value Broxton/Kemp moreso than Ethier/Billz at this point.

590 Verlander is contributing about as much to the Tigers in 2006 as Weaver contributed to the Dodgers in 2004.

I call that equivelant, you may not. I don't want to argue semantics.

520 - If you can't even summon the courage to defend not signing the reigning American League champion for organization killing two years later, you have a problem.

I assume you're talking about the cowardice surrounding the Vlad non-signing. Yes, the problem there is that he can't say why he didn't sign Vlad; the bottom line is that he was Selig's sock puppet, which he can't come out and say in so many words. Don't ever expect an apology for that.

584-588, They will probably have to bring up Saunders, but it does leave 2 rookies and 1 2nd year pitcher as 3/5 of your starting rotation. Jared Weaver seems so mature however, he doesn't get rattled over one bad bounce or play like his older brother. Saunders looked okay last time they used him against Cleveland. Real test coming up-trip into Fenway this weekend followed with two home series with the A's and Rangers next week. Looks like only one team from SoCal has a chance to play meaningful ball in October(not including the Friars).

If Fur-kel is not on the top of Ned's list, then Ned is crazy. He's even starting to "hit better," and he might get something good.

Mr. Speaker, I would like the opportunity to revise and extend my remarks in 520.

593 -- It's not semantics. You're wrong.

Nate, do the dodgers plan on promoting Kershaw soon, or have they already?

600 posts on a night like tonight?? I guess this is a parting gift from Sal!

...and did I see Gavin Floyd up there somewhere?? He, and perhaps this discussion about Verlander, reminds me of the time ESPN's power rankings boldly predicted that "Brandon Duckworth will win a Cy Young award in the next 5 years"...

597 What word should I use for "these two guys are putting up similar numbers this year, but one will get much, much better"?

593 - Fair enough

520... that was about Steve Finley, right?

Does anyone else like Broxton more than Billingsley?

Am I off-base about seeing Broxton's K numbers and thinking he has alot more talent and upside than Billingsley does?

520
That was about Alex Cora, right?

592
I agree about Ethier. I would trade him if we could get a great player in return. Elbert, Dewitt, LaRoche, Billingsley, and Martin are the ones that are almost untouchable in my mind.

600 -- there's no word for it. When you adjust Verlander's statistics for both age and salary, he is having a much better year than Jeff Weaver ever did. Such adjustments are routinely done and for good purpose. Age because you have to compare Verlander to the average 23 year old, not the average junkballer supposedly in his prime, and salary because it is an imperfect measurement of the opportunity cost gained from the fact that you don't have to pay a stiff like Jeff Weaver $8 million bucks only to turn around and sport a 7 ERA.

You are not wrong often, but on this one, you are wrong.

592 - Regarding Miguel Cabrera - He is an example of a young stud with many good years ahead of him where trading a couple blue-chip prospects make sense for the present and future. I just don't want them to give those blue-chippers for a Soriano and Lee that would be here for two months then leave via free agency. I much rather pursue them in Free agency ourselves without giving up prospects. As far as Zambrano, I would offer Bills and Guzman and throw in one of our spare parts, Ledee, Cruz instead of Ethier, I like that kid's upside!!

603.

Yeah, but he is a reliever, but if he started I'd like him more.

NOTE: The interview is up on KFWB.com now. Starts with a complaining caller ... nice.

I own a commemorative plate depicting Alex Cora's 95-pitch at-bat.

Not all plates increase in value; some go down.

Alex Cora is hitting .300 and OBPing .400

ADD NOTE: Of course I'm wrong (story of my day!) ... just the excerpt of the interview is up there. Mostly the complaining caller part.

608. Well, if I was running the team Broxton would be starting for Jacksonville right now, building up his arm for next year. I wouldnt put him or any of our pitching prospects at Vegas.

Good post by you at Dodgers.com. But I'm not sure you're going to get anywhere with that crowd. Keep fighting the good fight though.

As far as Zambrano, I would offer Bills and Guzman and throw in one of our spare parts, Ledee, Cruz instead of Ethier, I like that kid's upside!!

I agree. If we could get Zambrano for less than Billz/Etheir, by all means that would be splendid. However, I'm thinking of a fair trade that the Cubs might accept, and Billz/Ethier might do it if for instance Zambrano has told the Cubs he wont resign with them. I'm not sure if he's mentioned that however.

606 Fair enough. I've spent far too much time comparing Justin Verlander to Jeff Weaver.

I've spent far too much time comparing Justin Verlander to Jeff Weaver.

I can't disagree with that.

596 - Hey, there's an idea.

But is anyone looking for a shortstop/speedy leadoff guy? It would be more useful to put Izturis at short and then a more offensively charged 3B in.

I'll try to get inside Colletti's head. He doesn't know if the division is salvageable or not, so he wants to watch this weekend. If they sweep and everyone else in the NL West falters, then they're close enough to have "pressure," which he doesn't want for LaRoche or Aybar at 3rd. But if they're still 6 games out or more come Sunday (I'd say 90% chance), he'll be willing to bring up more of the kids from AAA, and thus trading whichever shortstop helps him the most.

Izturis' BA is now really low, so Furcal, even with the higher salary, is a more useful offensive player, and his defense has been less problematic since he has gradually gotten over some nagging injuries. Thus Furcal is shipped out, I don't know where but somewhere and probably with cash. Prospects would be amazing, but he'll see what he can do. Then Izzy is back at short, Laroche or Aybar take 3rd, and Kent gets back.

This is more my thinking, but he'd also send Drew (especially if he hits a homer this weekend) to the Yankees for some prospect they've got (they've got a couple, supposedly), I don't know who, and bring up another Vegas headliner of your choice.

616 -- Jim Hendry on line 2. Mr. Colletti, Mr. Hendry is waiting on line 2.

Alex Cora is hitting .300 and OBPing .400

Of which Ned is no doubt well aware...

"I'll try to get inside Colletti's head."

I'll bet there's a Kirk Reuter plate in there...

618

well I did like his 18 pitch at bat about 2 year ago.

619

were is Rueter anyways? i remember the last time I atended one of his games (2 years ago)

Well the Nats got one game out of their trade. Kearns hit the game winning sac fly to left, with Lopez scoring the winning run. And then they beat Frisco.

616-Well Nomar is out for five to seven days according to ESPN, so I doubt we are going to get closer than 6 games out this weekend. I don't think you'll see a major deal this weekend with the Dodgers being buyers for a rental. They will be more likely to reload in the offseason when Ned has a chance to evaluate over the whole offseason unlike last year when he had to act quickly to attempt to improve the team. It was working to an extent till the injury bug took a big bite out of this team. Have you ever seen such a protracted streak of bad luck with injuries from the start of last year to the present? That can spoil anyone's salad!!

619 -- Were fans of that pitcher called Rueter Rooters?

616 (2) - If the Yanks are willing to take Drew off our hands for a mid-level prospect and pay at least 1/2 to 2/3 of his remaining salary, then we can use that money towards some pitching we need.

623 - I blame the Gretzky statue at Staples Center for all of the LA sports injuries and other problems. Laker surgeries. Kings dropping like flies. Dodgers exploding into tiny blue bits on the field. Ever since that evil statue was put up -- for a player that never played at Staples Center. ;)

Games Played:

Drew - 89
Nomar - 79
Baez - 518

This may sound crazy but we need to acquire Brad Wilkerson. He is having an awful year and Texas would probably give him away. Offer Danys Baez, Aaron Sele, and Kenny Lofton. If that doesn't work, we'll throw in Saio if they throw in Francisco Cordero. Add in Scott Feldman and Elmer Dessens. Just part of my plan to acquire big time underachievers. Jason Lane is another guy we should go after.

I like Broxton and Billingsley both but what I like more about Bills is he seems to have more quality pitches in his repertoire. He's got good heat on his fastball, like Broxton, but can mix it up better with more wicked offspeed stuff. I think once he learns a bit more about major league hitters and so on, he's going to be great. Broxton's going to be good, too, but I'm not convinced he can be a starter; I feel like if he was similar to Penny, he'd be more often the Penny we saw today and not the usual Penny. But I hope we keep them both for a long while.

603 -- Broxton is not as talented as Billingsley. They were starters together on two different teams over a two year period (Vero Beach and Jacksonville) and Billingsley's numbers, including K rate, were always better. Broxton is doing an easier job than starting now, middle relief, and he had the benefit of getting his feet wet in the majors last year, when his ERA was close to 6.00 and his walk rate was worse than Billingsley's is now. Billingsley's walk rate will go down and his K rate will go up as he gets more experience and polish, but his K rate will likely never be as good as Broxton's as long as Broxton has the advantage of only having to pitch one or two innings at a time and doesn't have to pace himself. Think about Penny throwing 99 MPH fastballs when he didn't have to pace himself in the All-Star Game compared to how hard he usually throws.

can anybody tell me what Grady Little said? I missed the interview.

626-Did Magic ever play there? His career ended 4 years before Staples hosted a game. Other than his exhibition-MidSummer Night's Magic, I don't think Magic played Staples either. Of course, Magic is so L.A., I am only saying this tongue in cheek! :)

Kirk Rueter was released by the Giants last year and decided to retire.

I'm burnt out! Goodnight folks! I will live to fight another day! Only 5 days left to make non-waiver trades!! keep your fingers crossed!!!

634

then me seeing him 2 years ago is that much more important.(the Dodgers won that game so whoo hoo!)

o.k. peeps good night. :o)

630
Your right of course but don't you think that while Broxton does not have the ability of Billingsly, that he did show enough during his days as a minor league starter that he would be more valuable as a starter then a setup man? While Billingsly supposedly has Number 1 stuff, you'd think that Broxton could be a 3 or 4 and that certainly has more cache then a setup man.
Hopefully this is a one year deal but it bugs me that 3 of the best arms in system(Kuo, Miller, Broxton) are being used in relief where repetition of innings would seem to be the best path.

An early congrats to the Nats on their 8 game winning streak!
vr, Xei

For those of you keeping score, here's the Dodger vs. Met home run situation

Beltran-28
Delgado-25
Wright-21
Nady-14
Nomar-12
Valenin-11
Floyd-10
Drew/Kent-9

I'd love to come up with a pithy, intelligent remark, but I am unable to do so. Hitting the ball out of the yard is premium, and we suck at it. Horribly. Look at that. Our home run leader is fifth on the list. Hilarity ensues. The Mets have a seven hitter who produces more than we do. Can we please just wave the white flag, trade Nomar, Kenny, and Co., and prepare for next year?

Can we please just wave the white flag, trade Nomar, Kenny, and Co., and prepare for next year?

And we can hire Tobias to do his "We're having a fire...sale..." routine, complete with his stop-drop-and-roll edition of "Amazing Grace."

There's only one way I want Tobias...Decked out in blue paint, squatting uncomfortably, and reading "The Man Inside Me."

Only when the man inside me is finally out, can I walk free of pain.

oh goodie. Someone told Plaschke about OBP

Simers had a good article though

637 Kuo is now a starter. He even started tonight, going 4 innings, gave up 2 runs on 6 hits and 2 BBs, with 4 Ks. Threw 68 pitches, 42 for strikes. He continues to throw more pitches at a very slow rate (it's not like he's ever thrown many innings in a season, so this is wise), and his control seems to be improving somewhat since the move to the rotation.

Baez left Tuesday's game in the ninth inning because he felt dizzy and has been fighting illness since the All-Star break. But, he said, "I'm not going to be on the DL. For what? A roster opening? They can trade somebody."

Is Baez volunteering himself?

645 - Good for him. The 17 pitch average isn't bad either. His last outing, if I recall, was 60 pitches, so I guess they're gradually upping him by 10 pitches or so. That's encouraging.

Simers wrote a good piece today about his trip to Dodger Stadium with a blind man.

http://tinyurl.com/h4ys3

Plaschke's article isnt worth being linked.
Its litterbox material.

638 The Nationals thank you for your confidence, Xei. Note that they have to get by the Giants again today first, so I think it's a nine-game winning streak you're anticipating.

The Dodgers seem to have many more injuries now then when the great Bill Buelher was the trainer. If the losing streak continues maybe Stan Johnston gets the DFA.

Listening to the podcast of last night's roundtable. Nobody mentioned the doofus (not Martinez, the other one) blaming the streak on Bill Mueller's injury (because it's imperiled his leadershiping)? I take it there were toaster troubles, so maybe that was it. People who call in and brag about their season tickets should be hung up on, immediately. Still waiting for this mythical good caller. I think you rabble probably made her up, but, whatever.

http://tinyurl.com/rkbfc

Plaschke beats up on Penny, again, this morning. I wonder if Rawitch will spend a few paragraphs calling Plaschke nicer than Jesus, and cuter than garbage bag full of kittens.

That tinyurl is a link to the podcast, not Plaschke. Plaschke's here: http://tinyurl.com/kqs74

Old friend Odalis Perez in an obvious effort to kiss up to this new team:

"You know, the team is a bad team," Perez said of the last-place Royals. "[But] I could be happy there because I can be the ace on staff or one of the good guys on the staff."

What a guy. He will be sorely missed.

637 but it bugs me that 3 of the best arms in system(Kuo, Miller, Broxton) are being used in relief where repetition of innings would seem to be the best path.

my understanding is that Broxton dosn't throw as hard when he starts, & Kou is starting already no?

No, Plaschke is here:

http://tinyurl.com/qzu38

Uh Oh. Reading today's Times, I'm afraid that Plaschke and Simers did one of those Weird Science mind switch experiments that were so poular in 80's movies. This could be even worse than those movies.

So where exactly does, "Nomar will miss five games" fall on the dodger injury conversion chart?

I gotta think at the very least it equals retroactive 15 day DL.

654 Yep, Kuo is now starting in Las Vegas. (He lost yesterday, after pitching okay - 2 runs in 4 innings) Miller is still coming back from the surgery and a recent minor injury so they haven't wanted to push it with him - and he may prove valuable as a lefty reliever. Broxton could start in the minors but they need him as a reliever up in the bigs right now.

From Plaschke:

Brad Penny is being paid like an ace, and he needs to act like it

Really? The going rate for an "ace" these days is $5.5 million/year?

657 I believe that would be 5 games total. For some reason. from the moment he got hurt they seemed to be sure it would be exactly 5 days. And from the notes in today's Times, doesn't sound like it's likely to be more so no DL for Nomar.

I was out last night and turned to the comments here to find out what Ned, Frank and Grady said about the season.

Instead, in a twist worthy of "24," Peripherals died!

Now what?

The Ventura paper has a piece this morning on Penny's flare-up yesterday - worth a read to get a better sense.
http://tinyurl.com/e5o73

Sounds like he at least is now able to both apologize and talk thiugs through. I dunno if Penny is paid like an ace or not, but he is supposed to be the Dodgers ace and needs to pitch like it, regardless of who is playing CF or not. Giving up two big hits to the pitcher is inexcusable, don't care how good a hitting pitcher Peavy is. But I think he can get through this and be solid next time around.

661 Yeah, and I missed most of it too. And the descriptions here of what they said were mostly filtered through people's individual biases against them so it's hard to tell. Then I went to listen to the archived recording of it on KFWB and could only find one caller and response instead of the whole thing. Is it somewhere I'm missing.

Bill Plaschke alert.

Has he gone insane? Doesn't he get it? WE ARE THROUGH, WE ARE DONE, THE SEASON IS OVER!!!!!!!

And we don't get a good d* about the angels, and thoese 2 month's of irrelevance will pay off into 10 years of greatness!!!!

Isn't "Confronting teammates for lack of hustle" usually considered by Plaschke-types as a sign of "leadership" and "getting people fired up"? Isn't that the kind of emotion and will to win that is "needed" in the clubhouse? Isn't that what Kirk Gibson supposedly brought to his teams? Did Plaschke bash Kent for confronting Milton for his alleged lack of hustle, or did he applaud Kent for his "veteran presence"?

Bill Plaschke

Plaschke is trying to foment a controversy. When Penny demands a trade, Plaschke will think he's accomplished something. He leads a sad and meaningless existence.

when is july over so Lowe can pitch better?

dose he pitch better in Aug?

Steve wins.

666
The mark of the beast

666

I think we all agree that Plaschke is the devil, so DT'ers agree in two things we hate Plaschke & the Giants.

Any truth to the rumor that Tommy Lasorda is going on a hunger strike until the Dodgers win again!? That situation could get pretty ugly, perhaps Bob will be following it over at the Griddle.
vr, Xei

yeah Bob, I need my chuckle fix.

Plaschke probably has something personal against Penny. He probably figures that since he had such a good string of running people out of town last season that he can do it again.

Plaschke is an idiot. His writings are all short-term focused and in the end he is almost always wrong. Between TJ Simers and him, I wonder why I still subscribe to the Times.

We should be building towards 07 and 08 as we just don't have it for this year barring a miracle. I am troubled by all of the prospects Ned is giving up when we are getting very little in return. I'd like to see him trade for the future instead, but I don't think he has it in him. I think he'd rather give up prospects for more mediocre veterans to please people like Plaschke and pretend we are doing something to save the ship.

Plaschke and the LA Times are in the business of selling papers and would sell their soul to do so. He writes this c-rap and it creates a big uproar and a few more papers are sold and a few more hits on the LA Times website. Unfortunately c-rap sells, just look at what is on the TV nightly and showing at the movie theaters. vr, Xei

Penny's only transgression is that he was acquired for Paul Lo Duca. Plaschke will never forgive him for that.

Let's not forget that just three weeks ago, Ol' Bill YET AGAIN lamented the allegedly franchise-crushing July 2004 trade that brought Penny, the Dodgers' best starting pitcher, over from the Marlins.

It's 2006, Bill.

It looks like I need to reinstate my Plaschke Protection System. The system involves my wife getting to the morning paper before I do, checking the sports section, and tearing out any Plaschke before I can read it.

Once I'm there, I'm drawn to it, like a moth to a blowtorch.

I'm very lucky. My wife is forgiving and patient; she loves going to the games with me; and she is impervious to BS. She is the perfect Plaschke filter.

You know what I like about this forum? It's like a family. We bash the hell out of our own players but God forbid anyone else badouths our players, we're ready to fight. That's good. I was starting to think nobody cared.

677 - Yes, how will we ever survive without the catcher who ranks 21st in the NL for OPS among catchers with more than 100 ABs (he's 8th out of 11 for catchers qualifying for the batting title).

Hey, Bill, Russ Martin - you remember him? He's better.

(I do think you're right, OZ - Plaschke is stuck in 2004... It'll be 2020, the Dodgers will be saying goodbye to Martin and Kemp and Billz and whoever, and he'll write a column lamenting about how they could have had 48-year-old LoDuca behind the plate).

I am loathe (lol) to ever give credit to JoeyP but today's Baseball Prospectus list the worst VORP NL 3B and outside of Vinny Castilla (apparently the Padres would actually do better with no one playing 3B), our good friend Izzy, is second worse, Joel is third (though I think he played maybe 2 games there so I would discount that) and Mueller's one month equaled 5th worst.

The best 3B for the Dodgers with a VORP of 3.5 is Willy Aybar (still the 8th worst player, 3B is the worst position for the Dodgers) and considering that's only with about 6 weeks of games, it is possible had they just handed him the job over the winter, he could have moved even higher.

675 I am troubled by all of the prospects Ned is giving up when we are getting very little in return.

I agree with the "getting very little in return" part of this sentence, but the "all the prospects Ned is giving up" is untrue.

Edwin Jackson is no longer a prospect. He is a mop-up relief pitcher for the second-worst team in baseball, the guy they leave in to take a beating. Tiffany's not much of a prospect anymore either due to injury. Baez might not be great, but I predict he will be traded this week, and what the Dodgers get back will be of more value than Jackson and Tiffany.

Navarro you could make a case for, but he was redundant on this team. Branch Rickey would've gotten more for him, but not much more.

The two who went to KC in the epic Dessens deal were not prospects.

Really, when this season's over, the story will be the same as last season. The Dodgers have a core group of prospects who are mostly not ready to play in the majors. Management's strategy is to to tap dance until the prospects arrive in full by 2007 or 08. The tap dancers look okay at the start of the season, but begin to wear out around June or July. The media and fans get restless.

The GM has a gut check in mid-July. Trade just a couple prospects for a name player to keep the media at bay, maybe win a few more games? Sounds soooo easy.

Last year, DePo passed the gut check, but paid for it with his job. (He made mistakes that contributed to his downfall as well.)

This year, I predict Colletti will also pass the gut check, and get to keep his job.

681 VORP is a cumulative stat, meaning that it should increase (or decrease, if a player struggles; VORP can be negative) with more playing time, not unlike RBI or strikeouts.

As a result, it can be tought to compare two players with significant differences in playing time. However, there's a VORPr, or VORP rate, measurement that describes VORP more like batting average or ERA making it easier to compare players with dissimilar playing time.

682 Edwin Jackson is no longer a prospect. He is a mop-up relief pitcher for the [Devil Rays]

Wow, sounds like Ned's kind of player! :)

For all of you on Ned watch, hopefully he plays golf because the Dodgers are off at the charity golf tourney at the Trump course out in Palos Verdes Estates.

Of coures Ned and Jim Bowden will both have a lot of time to talk to this weekend.

Dodgers interested in Carlos Lee

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=At4LC8SgY.D4bvJBH.tNgF0RvLYF?slug=ys-mlbrumors&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

686 The Dodgers should definitely make a serious run at Carlos Lee.

When he's a free agent in the offseason.

682 The problem with moves that Ned has made is that they provide so little value that if any of the non-prospects become relatively productive, it negates all the good he's done.

For example, I determined that if you repeated the Baez trade seven times, if even one of the prospects panned out, you'd end up behind in the end. This was giving Edwin Jackson an 85% chance of never contributing a thing at the major league level.

Sure, losing these guys probably won't hurt, but if you're going to make moves like Ned makes, you have to be 100% sure they'll never be a useful major league player.

Carlos Lee: yet another guy whose power numbers increase dramatically in his "contract" year.

686 - While I wouldn't mind Lee (depending on what the team would have to give up to get him), this blurb from a linked article caught my eye:

"A few clubs have surprised me calling for Carlos (Lee). I'm not sure if they're interested, but they're in the same division and want to make sure that if somebody else gets him, they're paying a steeper price." - Brewers GM Doug Melvin (aren't those two first names? =P).

I'm wondering (hoping) that Ned is just trying to push the price for Lee, without actually trying to get him - if there are that many teams actively pursuing him the cost probably will be too much for a deal to really work out in the Dodgers' favor.

Here's a question... say there's a player -- let's call him Carlos -- in the final year of a contract for a team that will be unable to sign him in the offseason (when he's a free agent).

If another team traded for Carlos, would Carlos be any more likely to sign with that new team over any other?

My gut says no -- that Carlos will sign with whichever team offers him the most money -- but I can't help but wonder if there would be some sort of inside track or something, and I wonder what that's worth, if anything.

I was a bit steamed yesterday but cooler heads have prevailed.

Here's wjat needs done. We keep Penny and Lowe and sign Zito/Schmidt. Grear starting pitching is key.

We trade JD Drew, Joel Guzman, and another prospect to the Yankees for a worse prospect the Guzman and the other we are giving away. We do this so the Yankees will take on Drew's whole contract.

We sign Lee next offseason

Rotation
1. Schmodt
2. Zito
3. Lowe
4. Penny
5. Billz

Lineup
1. Furcal - ss
2. Loney - 1b
3. Lee - lf
4. Ethier - rf
5. Kent - 2b
6. Kemp - cf
7. LaRoche - 3b
8. Martin - c

682 That's one of the most accurate and logical posts I've seen on all this so far, Dzzrt, thanks. How dare you bring facts and logic to this discussion! ;-) I think you're right about what's going to happen, too.

I still feel sad that Mueller didn't stay healthy because I really liked him and thought he'd help the Dodgers a lot. Of course, I, and no one really, should be surprised that his knees gave out and that was it, so in hindsight it seems like a dumb move but I was looking forward to Mueller, and hopeful. I do hope we trade Baez because I think we could actually get something good in return. In a Carlos Lee (sign-and-)trade package perhaps? That's the only way I'd like to add Lee, is if we could sign him to a long term deal. 2 month rental for top prospects doesn't seem worth it.

If Ned trades for Carlos Lee without an extention, Ned's got a one way ticket straight to my ship lisp.

From what little I heard last night during the radio broadcast, it certainly seems unless a deal like Carlos Lee or Soriano for Guzman and someone maybe like a Mike Megew, the Dodgers are not going to make a move that involves anyone that has played up with the big league team or any of the lower guys (Elbert, Abreu, Hu, Dewitt would be the four I would not move from their AA/A team).

But even that deal I described may only result in one or two more wins.

This may please some of you out there, I sure sounded like the Dodgers will be big players in acquiring a Zito or Schmidt, Ned made it pretty clear, you can't win without one of those guys (not sure if that is a shot at Penny, I doubt it, he was talking about making a deal now and the only thing he would really look at would be a deal for a No. 1 guy)

So in Nate's and my best case scenario, the Dodgers fall under the 16th pick so if they sign a premier free agent, they don't lose their number one pick.

One thing, if Drew opts out, does anyone know can the Dodgers offer him arbitration, thus securing some draft picks?

689 We call that a "Beltre" around here. Let me rustle up a Wikipedia entry...

Yeah, is there a way to trade for someone like Lee and then have him sign an extension, or is that just wishful thinking on my part? Otherwise, I think you're right, Colletti may just be trying to jack up his asking price. Let the Cards and Astros bankrupt their futures for him.

For LAT

Wet kiss of a profile of Mark Lerner (son of Ted) that ran in today's Post. http://tinyurl.com/fv7ma

Boldest Andre Ethier comment. Best deal for a minor leaguer since Pedro Guerrero.

I will try to do some research but when was the last time the Dodgers got a minor league player who has played as well as he has in the last 30 years?

Bob, anyone.

696 Jim Bowden said he would not allow a team to negotiate an extension prior to making a deal for Soriano, I think the only time teams get to do that is when that player has a no trade clause and they have to try and get that player to waive that clause. (I just read that Elmer Dessens had a limited no trade clause and the Yankees were interested in him recently but could not make a deal because of that clause)

From 2000-2006, Carlos Lee's ABs/HR:

23.83
23.25
18.92
20.10
19.06
19.31
13.86

I guess he magically figured out how to hit HRs more frequently, right before he's due for free agency. Neato.

I still don't see how the Dodgers sign both Zito and Schmidt in the off season, but I'll be happy if I'm wrong. I'll be happy if we sign one of them.

698 I don't know - I was used to them being the one trading those away instead of acquiring them.

698 BTW, give credit to Logan White and his scouts for the Ethier deal but also to Ned for when he heard that he was available, a scout told him to make that deal.

I agree with 688. I have heard different things on all the minor league players that we have sent out this year as to whether they could possibly be productive major leaguers (some say possibly yes as there is some upside to a few of these even the two in the Dessens trade). If anyone of them happens to turn out to be a modest major league player other than Navarro (who you can assume was traded for Hall more or less), then these deals are really bad.

I'd like to see if Ned could send Izturis, Ledee or Cruz, and maybe Guzman for someone who can actually contribute in 07/08 whether it is a top prospect or a solid player. Not sure if that would be possible, but I know there are those on this board that feel Izturis has decent trade value at this point.

701 I think they go and try to get one, I am guessing Ned's past relationship with Schmidt will help though I think I like Zito's age better.

Often times I have dreams and years later do not remember that they were dreams, so I have this terrible feeling nagging at me and I'm not sure if it was a dream or something that I heard years ago. I have this vague feeling that I once heard that Piazza started off as a switch-hitter, maybe in high school or in the minors, I don't know. Am I right or do I have some sort of mental illness that blurs the line in my head between reality and my subconscious?

I'd rather go with Zito due to his age and the fact that I always think Schmidt is on the verge of losing his power and effectiveness and is injury prone (some of this is just based on my hunches not necessarily fact though). Don't think we'll be able to get both Schmidt and Zito, and the fact that Boras is Zito's agent is troublesome. Keep in mind, we'll also need free agent bullpen help (i.e. closer) next year. I am not of the belief that Broxton is ready to be a closer yet. This doesn't even mention Nomar and any offense upgrades. Not sure the budget can handle all of this.

700 In fairness, all your table shows is Carlos Lee has improved with HR hitting as he's entered his prime. I don't think that's something to view as a negative.

We should all want Matt Kemp's first 6 years in the Majors somewhat resemble that table.

Whether he can sustain that HR rate is a valid question, but there's no reason to expect that he won't continue to hit at least 1 HR every 20AB, on average. So he has value.

706 I think the priority has to be to go after those two starters, acquiring at least one of them. But I think the offense would be solid if the Dodgers were just to stick with who is already under their control, a Martin, Loney, Kent, LaRoche, Furcal, Ethier, Kemp, Drew sort of thing.

Memo to self: Get Bluetahoe TinyURL creator for Xmas.
http://mozmonkey.com/tinyurl/
;-)

705 The NY Post insinuated that he was a switch-hitter back in 2002. :)

707 But the dramatic improvement of this year is a little troubling. It will drive his cost up considerably, even though he may well revert to the 1 in 20 guy he's been in the past.

Whether he can sustain that HR rate is a valid question, but there's no reason to expect that he won't continue to hit at least 1 HR every 20AB, on average. So he has value.

Yes, but he'll be paid based on his 2006 HR rate, which he likely won't sustain. Whoever signs him will likely be stuck with a 20 AB/HR guy for the cost of a 13 AB/HR guy.

To me, those numbers represent a significant red flag.

Billy Beane made this deal, Tim Hudson from for Dan Meyer, Juan Cruz and Charles Thomas. Score one for the Braves thus far, though the book is out on Meyer.

But then he made this deal with St. Louis, Mark Mulder for Dan Haren, Kiko Calero and Daric Barton. Certainly just Haren might have been equal value for Mulder, to get the other two guys plus the fact that Mulder is out and is a free agent, score this one for the A's. The more you look at this deal, only the Nathan, Liriano trade and the Kazmir trade could rank above it, though Mulder is a better player than A.J. and Victor Zambrano.

My point is that, you could go and find deals like this for every general manager in every sport, I always think the best deal is one where there are no clear winners or losers but instead both teams address needs.

The only deal, though again I understood it based on the players he had and the reports coming out regarding their health, is the deal that sent Duaner out of town but with Gagne saying he was on track and with Yhency coming off being the top relief pitcher in the Dominican Winter League (he had great numbers), it sure seemed that the Dodgers were set in that department.

It's harder to judge Lee's market since he technically isn't available yet, but beyond the runaway Tigers, the Dodgers have shown early interest. While the Dodgers have gone deadly cold during L.A.'s heat wave, losing 13 of 14 since the break, it's doubtful they could explain a sell-off stance to four million paying fans. The Dodgers could dangle shortstop Cesar Izturis, currently out of position at third, but if Milwaukee requests Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp or third base prospect Andy La Roche, Los Angeles would likely balk.

I'm sorry, sir, we're out of the bacon-wrapped filet tonight. Can I interest you in an old shoe?

710 I don't know what that means.

712 Maybe. But I think most teams will [correctly] view his 20AB/HR as a baseline with a very good chance of exceeding it.

Close to 40HR is not an unreasonable expectation for Carlos Lee in 2007. I suspect that most scouts would agree.

You pretty much KNOW that Lee will hit 30 HR a season for at least the next few seasons. That certaintly is worth something. He's not a proverbial "question mark".

708

I agree. We need to get a quality starter far and above anything else (really we need 2). We don't have any other options in the minors right now.

On another note, Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports is saying he thinks the Angels can get Tejada for Joe Saunders and Brandon Wood. Stoneman might actually do this one. This would put the Angels as the team to beat in the AL West if they aren't already. The only thing that might hold this up is if they need Saunders to replace Colon in the rotation, which is possible as Bartolo looks bad and his arm looks like it is about to fall off.

I don't like trading prospects, but in this case the Angels need the bat.

716
I guess we'll see what happens. But if I were a GM, I would have misgivings about players who suddenly got a lot better during their contract year, even if they had always been pretty good in the past.

718 I think we both agree that the key to the whole thing is it all depends on the price. Are other teams bidding with the expectation of .920 OPS or .860 OPS?

I'd argue that you want to buy players' baselines. Performance among top players can fluctuate between "very good" and "great", so make sure you're at least getting "very good", even if you're paying for "great".

It's the players that fluctuate between "OK" and "good" that you want to keep away from your bank account.

717 To make that deal, which would close off the left side of the IF through 2008, on the one hand says that you are planning to win now because you would tie up around $90 million for 13 players (Guerrero, Colon, Escobar, Lackey, Anderson, Rivera, Figgins, Carasco, J. Molina, Cabrera, Tejada, Shields (arb.) and Frankie Rodriquez (arb.))

You will probably be able to fill in some other spots to have a full roster less than 100 million and maybe you have to that deal because Vlad isn't getting younger.

The more I think about it, I might do it, though Wood is a consenus top 5 prospect in all of baseball.

So, are we going to peter out in the 720s on our way to 755?

New post up top - ending our pursuit of 755.

We keep Penny

So there was something wrong with you when you said you wanted to get rid of Penny bluetahoe.

But if I were a GM, I would have misgivings about players who suddenly got a lot better during their contract year, even if they had always been pretty good in the past.

--

that's the kind of thought that will get you fired. Just ask Plaschke.

720

Another possibility is to get Aramis Ramirez from the Cubs. Not sure what they would have to give up though for him. I generally don't like trade deadline deals, but I think the Angels are in a unique position where they should probably do a deal to get some hitting. They have plenty of prospects and really just need a hitter to take off as a team.

On Brandon Wood, I agree it would be hard to give up on him. Just looking at his stats though, I think of Dallas McPherson with all of those strikeouts. That may be unfair.

I don't think it is a problem blocking the left side of the infield until 08 as they don't really have any options in the minors at this point. I wouldn't count on McPherson at all at third and don't think Wood would be ready until 08 if they keep him.