I have to believe that Plaschke is trying to be ironic, and not just a condescending jerkface. I have to believe that.

Yes, I'm fooling myself.

Exploiting freaks like this for ratings is beneath you, Jon.

He's awful. Enough said.

2 - I miss your site Steve. Nothing was beneath you.

Maybe Plashke was emotionally drained after his emotional piece on Moon he let Simers fill up the rest of his space on the bottom.

I know nothing about football (yes I'm ashamed about it but what can I do about it) My bestfriend was all city & captain of the football team in high school though.

Plaschke had never even heard of Wilson Betemit until Friday.

And I still say Betemit looks like Kanye West.

my little nices love Kanye West.

Kanye West doesn't care about Third Basemen.

Wilson Betemit's secrets to success:

I started as a shortstop," said Betemit, who was blocked in Atlanta at that position by Furcal. "When they moved me to third base, I added about 20 pounds. I feel comfortable playing there now. The first time, it was a little confusing. The ball gets there quickly."

9

Kanye West is a fool.

11 -- And some of his plaques still say Kane.

11. So does that make Plaschke and Kanye West the same person.

4 -- There have been many, truly unearned LOLs around here in the past week, which makes this one all the more genuine. LOL.

I know Izzy isn't a kid anymore, so he's not as interesting as the likes of Loney and Ethier, but here's why I believe that Izzy, 26, will be a better hitter than many here seem to believe (and I know that's like saying he's faster than a snail).

While I don't believe he'll ever be a good hitter -- and let's be clear on that point -- I can see him making solid gains, somewhat like Ozzie Smith did. When you factor in his splendid defense, those gains could be crucial for whoever employs him.

Jon and others here often point out that Izzy has a career OPS of .630 or so. Factoring in his dreadful .627 OPS in the minors (including an abysmal .294 OBP)it seems a good bet that this is the exasperating, sinkhole of hitter Izzy will be from here on out. And he might get worse should he lose some footspeed, which many middle infielders do in their late 20s.

As Jon has observed, Izzy is very singles-reliant and can't leg out many hits, adding to the problems.

But my belief is that Izturis is an evolving hitter, and that a .730-plus OPS is within his grasp in his prime years -- 26-28. At worst, given a full season next year, I see him as a .675-710 OPS guy, as he was in 2004, and that's about average for a No. 8 hitter in the NL right now.

My belief is he has always had good hand-eye coordination as a hitter, partly evidenced by his low K ratios at all levels, but that he simply lacked the strength to do anything with it.

Entering 2004, Izturis had already made some 600 PAs in the majors. He had posted a brutal career OPS of .582.

About that time, Wallach and others spoke of how Izturis had virtually no strength, that his bottom hand needed to get a lot stronger. The improvement was pretty interesting, if not provably correlative.

In 2004, at the age of 24, Izturis OPSd at .710. Not all that great on its own, but considering what he had done in his prior 181 games -- .582 -- a large step forward.

And though Tracy didn't want to do it, he asked an incredible amount of Izturis in 2004. Playing SS is grueling enough. Izzy played it more than nearly everyone else in the majors (still led all SSs in zone rating, .881; accrued more ABs -- 670 -- than any Dodgers SS since Wills, 1962).
He was also batting leadoff, which is more taxing than, say, eighth, for a team that went through a rugged race. In all, quite a load to carry. A year to greatly respect, too.

Fast forward to 2005. Izturis' at-bats in April and May were solid. He was showing just enough power to create some holes. He was getting better at fouling off tough pitches.

Was he producing over his head? Sure, but perhaps not quite as much as commonly assumed.

Anyway, about the time the hamstring started to go in early June, he had an OPS of about .800-.810. Then he blew out the elbow.

Presently his OPS is something like .620.

My belief is he can and will do better, even with the pitcher (or, perhaps worse, Hall) hitting behind him. One X factor is the effect TJ surgery has. Pitchers say their strength one year after TJ surgery is good, but it takes two years to have the sure, consistent coordination and feel they had prior to the surgery.
I also believe the challenges of playing 3B and rust from a year off should have been viewed as potential mitigating factors.

Anyway, that's my take on Izzy the hitter, and I believe that Izzy the 2B immediately upgrades the Dodgers pitching staff.

But my belief is that Izturis is an evolving hitter, and that a .730-plus OPS is within his grasp in his prime years -- 26-28. At worst, given a full season next year, I see him as a .675-710 OPS guy, as he was in 2004, and that's about average for a No. 8 hitter in the NL right now.

you say .730 OPS but have nothing to back it up. The rest of us are looking at what he's produced. It's not as if the guy is only in his first or second year.

He was also batting leadoff, which is more taxing than, say, eighth, for a team that went through a rugged race. In all, quite a load to carry. A year to greatly respect, too.

You're really, really stretching it here. I don't buy the argument one bit that he is at a disadvantage for hitting lead off.

I also believe the challenges of playing 3B and rust from a year off should have been viewed as potential mitigating factors.

I don't see what the challenges of playing third base have anything to do with his hitting.

The bottom line with Izzy is that he's never been a good hitter. Lots of people point to his .288 in '04 and my response is always: so what? .288 with no power, no speed, and doesn't draw walks.

The problem is that a lot of Dodger fans give Izzy a free pass just because they like him. I don't have anything against him personally, but the guy is simply not a good hitter, nor will he ever be. I'm not about to believe that he's miraculously going to start hitting in the next year or two when we have numerous years of evidence that prove otherwise.

Someone who is only a singles hitter basically has to rely on luck. If his flares fall in and his ground balls have eyes, we're golden. The problem with this is that the majority of the time those flares are caught, and the ground balls don't have eyes. Someone like Furcal at least has some power, draws walks, and makes up for a lot of his singles with steals. Izzy doesn't have any of that. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...Izzy is basically Royce Clayton. I have a hard time believing so many people would be sticking up for Royce Clayton this much so the only explanation is that everyone likes Izzy simply because he's a Dodger.

dsfan-- I'm jelous that you can right so good, great points.

16

JMO, but try playing the position, as a matter of fact try playing it & winning a glove glove & batting .288, one better try getting the admiration/loyal fallowing Izzy got. no disrespect just my point of view.

16 - I disagree with you in that the average SS isn't much of a hitter, and so Izzy could be at least an average hitter at SS which is only to say 700-710 OPS.

I'm a fan of Izturis, and I have no problem with Izzy the punch and judy shortstop, especially on a team where you had power from six or seven positions like in 2005. Between 2004 and 2005, I have faith that he could, at least prior to his injury, put up a non team ruining .710 OPS.

Unforunately, Izzy the third baseman doesn't cut it, especially on a team that lacks power. Furcal is simply better than Izturis, and you can't afford Izturis' bat anywhere but in the middle infield. I think he's a step above the Neifis and Claytons of this world since his defense is better (according to Dewan) and he still has youth on his side.

Izzy is a decent option, but there's no place for him on this team.

Please address all Izturis correspondence to:

J. Bowden
RFK Stadium
Washington, DC 00666

18-

I played third base in high school, was drafted, and played third base in college.

I don't care about "admiration/loyal following"...that doesn't make someone a good player.

Betemit is clearly a better ball player than Izzy, so if Ned doesn't give him up in the next day it's going to be interesting to see what happens when Kent comes back.

Jon, I must admit your heading scared the shirt off me. I thought we had traded some more kids. But being an east coast fan who has followed the D's since Brooklyn, I am not as quick to get this apparent jerk of a LA sports writer. I sense a good era coming if we don't "sell the farm". I also am so old I don't know anything about "fantasy ball" . While I never would be dumb enough to think good fantasy ball guys would not know how to adjust to be excellant real ball stratagizers, I have just been blind to them. This is a great way to experience ball, one I was largely denied. I finally realize, though I rarely argue, I have been arguing with some guys with much experience as "fantasy managers". We just see things differently, and its not worth bickering.
Last time I talked with friends, it seemed defense was not as heavily wieghted as offense, and I'm not sure if pitching is completely integrated.
Anywho, I see a great era coming with our young guys, and I have seen wonderful things in the Koufax and Fernando days and beyond.

The average shortstop had a .697 OPS last year.

Unforunately, Izzy the third baseman doesn't cut it, especially on a team that lacks power.

Exactly. Maybe if our lineup looked like the Mets or Yankees I could deal with it, but not with our lineup.

The average shortstop is extremely lame as a result of circular reasoning. The average shortstop's output is wholly irrelevant.

I dont believe Plaschke can possibly be this absent minded. I think the only reason he wrote that artcile was to get a reaction, he cant possibly think that.

It's like saying that Major League pitching is so bad that Russ Ortiz and Jeff Weaver have jobs.

That said, we should trade Fur-kel for a lot of stuff and play Izturis at shortstop.

22 I don't care about "admiration/loyal following"...that doesn't make someone a good player.

so do you think "Furcal" is a better fielder than Izzy?? how many games has Furcal lost with his glove? (the glove never goes into a slump remember that & you can build around a glove)

22 I don't care about "admiration/loyal following"...that doesn't make someone a good player.

so do you think "Furcal" is a better fielder than Izzy?? how many games has Furcal lost with his glove? (the glove never goes into a slump remember that & you can build around a glove)

Oops sorry, "my bad"

30 Furcal was one of the best fielders in baseball prior to this year (according to every defensive metric I know) and he crashed and burned this year. It's almost as though his glove went into a slump.

31 No one is saying that Furcal is a better fielder than Izzy (at least, I haven't seen anyone say that, with or without quotation marks). The question, I think, is whether Izzy's offense is, or ever will be, good enough. I think Furcal's offense is just that much better than Izzy's that it makes up for his inferiority defensively.

13,000,000.00 million for a guy that hits, what (out of my head) 280-290 career??? come one!!! & thinks he's a 25 Home run type players??

sorry I rather take Izzy & build around him.

33

my heart is pumping faster than normal & I don't like it.

35 Colletti overpaid Furcal so we wouldn't have to do a longer contract. Would you rather he stick around for five years?

Besides, if he repeated last year where he had Ozzie Smith like defense, 13 million is a bargain.

What baffles me from any point of view, is why someone would want to try to gain either offense or power from the shortstop position where it is reasonably the most expensive. If it falls in your lap(ie. a youngster from your org.) take joy of it. Or if you have a 200mil payroll stockpile it at SS and 3rd and wherever. But don't be surprised if some conflicts result.
Like the stupidest thing you could do is own Furcal and Izturis and go after Tejada.
If you need power for itself, which rings of fantasy, get it at 1st base or the corner outfield pos. where it is cheapest.

so do you think "Furcal" is a better fielder than Izzy?? how many games has Furcal lost with his glove? (the glove never goes into a slump remember that & you can build around a glove)

no one has ever said he's a better fielder. But his bat makes up for a lot of it. How many has Furcal lost with his glove? I'm going to say not many. How many games has Izturis won with his glove? again, not many.

13,000,000.00 million for a guy that hits, what (out of my head) 280-290 career??? come one!!! & thinks he's a 25 Home run type players??

Let's see, he has some power which izzy doesn't. He can take a walk which izzy can't. He can steal a base, which izzy can't.

What you don't seem to realize is that Izturis is an awful hitter, and his defense doesn't make up for it. How many more erros does Furcal make, and in turn, how many of those errors turn into runs that lose the game? Not many at all. Yet, Furcal at least can produce runs on the offensive side which is something Izzy can't do.

13,000,000.00 is what makes my heart pump faster then I'd like it too.

Furcal (notice I do't call that guy fuky,furry, or what ever other's call him)

ps Izzy makes Furcal look like me in a game.

33 I looked at Furcals fielding and thought 04 and especially'05 were quite above his usual.

41 You're right. Furcal was a little above average prior to 2005, where he was amazing.

It seems like defensive stats flucuate a lot more than offensive ones, which runs contrary to the "defense never slumps" theory.

Let's see, he has some power which izzy doesn't. He can take a walk which izzy can't. He can steal a base, which izzy can't.

I was in the believe that "saber" guys don't like stolen bases?

are you telling me that a 290, hitter is worth 13,000,000.00 dollars??? Ned droped the ball period

13,000,000.00 is what makes my heart pump faster then I'd like it too.

if you feel he's overpaid, then fine.

But if you think Izzy is a better player, then you're flat out wrong.

Furkel is an awful hitter too. There is no way he is worth more than izturis when you consider how overvalued furkel is even in this goats vomit year furkel is having.

don't get me wrong I love Ned, but he really really really PO'ED me with that one.

are you telling me that a 290, hitter is worth 13,000,000.00 dollars???

I don't believe David Ortiz is hitting .290 this year...oh, and neither is Arod.

Just checked the box score, and found something shocking.

KENNY LOFTON THREW SOMEONE OUT?!

44 But if you think Izzy is a better player, then you're flat out wrong.

well you are kind of right there, but Izzy makes "Fuzzy" (ugh!!!!!!) look like a child when it comes to difence period

Furkel : ARod :: Plaschke : Common Sense

00666 HEY!

in the LITTLE WORLD, I'm a Furcal type of player, I guess that's why I admire Izzy so much.

45 - He had a big slump to start the year, but over the past month he has been producing at an above average rate for any position. His season offensive numbers are more or less in line with his career averages. Furcal is overpaid sure, but the contract was designed to overpay for his peak years without paying for his later years.

49 I know you don't believe in stats, but when every defensive metric says there's not much difference between Furcal and Izturis defensively, shouldn't you think there's something to that?

50 - you're saying Furcal lacks a rod? Or Bill Plaschke is not common sense? I'm not following you

There's talk that LA still needs 'pen help. G. Mota may have pitched himself into semi-oblivion in Cleveland--but might he be a good Dodger retread like Dessens (so far)?

Has Mota totally lost "it," or could he get some of "it" back where he had the most success--especially if worked back in to setup, where he excelled?

Have seen a lot of his Cleveland troubles attributed, right or wrong, to loss of confidence.

Hasn't done a lot since leaving LA but career #s show 502 IP, only 440 hits, 402 Ks. His away ERA even this awful season 3.86, but home ERA a bit over 8...which might lend weight to the confidence loss angle.

At least if there's a G. Mota II, he should come back cheap...if picked up, try him in LV a bit, bring him up if warranted?

23 Bill Plaschke is so well known around here for letting his mouth run well ahead of his brain that it's never actually been proven that he has a brain.

Plaschke writes something utterly inane; dog bites man. It's not much of a story.

39 some sense but did you say furc can steal bases and Izzy cant?

too bad the year isn't one month long.

Nickname for your consideration...

Wilson "can't find a" Betemit

Uh oh, Steve Phillips is saying the Dodgers' interest in Soriano has spiked and that they're in talks for Maddux. This could turn out to be a disaster...

54-

exactly.

Furkel : ARod :: Plaschke : Common Sense

I was trying to prove a point. He said that a 290 hitter isn't worth 13 million. period.

I'm not saying I don't think Furcal is overpaid...but anyone who honestly thinks that this same lineup would be better with Izzy in place of Furcal is smoking wacky tobacky.

I know you don't believe in stats, but when every defensive metric says there's not much difference between Furcal and Izturis defensively, shouldn't you think there's something to that?

no. (unless you go out there & do it you're self then I'll respect it) Izzy has the best hands/can read a ball better than any Dodger I've seen. I'm not saying I'm right I'm just saying I love watching him dance.

ps Furcal is a tool

54 - fielding percentage?

63 Okay. I give up.

54--I know you don't believe in stats

I actually do believe in stats, but for diffence?? can you prove it's accurate?(thinking outloud no disrespect)

well you are kind of right there, but Izzy makes "Fuzzy" (ugh!!!!!!) look like a child when it comes to difence period

See, again, you're wrong. Try looking at defensive numbers. They are a lot closer than you'd think.

You don't have anything to back up your argument. Any time someone knocks Izzy you just bring up the 13 mill to Furcal. Give me some numbers to back up your assumption that Izturis is a better player than Furcal.

64 Fielding percentage isn't a good metric.

The lineup would not be better for izturis in it. The organization would be better off if it took this one month respite, sold furkel at his peak, and got the going prospect rate for overpaid mediocre shortstops. Of course, if bowden would rather have izturis, then I'm not complaining. And if we can trade them both, we might actually have something here.

That rate of course, being Andy Marte.

I actually do believe in stats, but for diffence?? can you prove it's accurate?(thinking outloud no disrespect)

If all you're going to do is disregard stats that don't prove your own point then there's really no point in talking about it anymore.

ps Furcal is a tool

So you think that he's "Something regarded as necessary to the carrying out of one's occupation or profession"*?

* - dictionary.com

For the total bucks Furcal is getting he should be on a five year contract.

Stan from Tacoma

68 - maybe not, but it does show Furcal is a lot more error prone than Izturis, and has been for a while.

I'm curious as to why Plashke is so hated around here while Simmers slides by, usually unmentioned. They are two sides of the same coin. They both write with no insight or common sense and both seem to exist only to evoke emotion. Plashke usually warm and fuzzy and Simers usually vitriol and hatred. I don't like either but I find Plashcke to me mostly harmless while I think that Simers makes the world a worse place to live in. Why do you guys seem to have more of a problem with Plaschke?

69-

if there's any chance they would take Furcal back for Soriano I'd do it in a heartbeat, then you've got money opened up to re-sign him.

Of course, that isn't going to happen.

Give me some numbers to back up your assumption that Izturis is a better player than Furcal.

do you know what Vinnie says about that???

ps I love Vinnie :o)

73 - yep, but he wouldn't have left Atlanta for that. I think I remember reading after he got the Dodgers' offer, he told Bobby Cox, and Cox just said seize the oppurtunity

Furkel is a tool. I don't understand this defense of him. He has been horrible at virtually everything.

Why do you guys seem to have more of a problem with Plaschke?

I think it's because he is probably just more visible and more people know him. But you're right, both stink.

It honestly blows my mind that one of the biggest newspapers on the planet has a guy writing it's Sports that shouldn't even be writing for a high school paper. It's honestly mind boggling.

75 - my observation is that Simers isn't as serious a writer, and is generally more laid back and joking around. Plaschke is serious.

77-

Exactly. You can't.

Kind of like, you laugh with Simers, but laugh at Plaschke

67

can you annocently say Furcal is a better fielder than Izzy??.

75 - a long time ago, it was decided that Simers doesn't metaphysically exist. Like a black hole. Or furkel's contribution to the team.

78 he told Bobby Cox, and Cox just said seize the oppurtunity

I remember that, I wish he wouldn't have.

Can I see some of these magic defensive numbers?

84-

if you're not going to back up your assessment with anything other than Izzy is better because you THINK he's better and "Furcal is a tool" then there's really no point in discussing it with you at all.

My advise: look at some numbers.

The impression I have is that Plaschke is like a scab many of us keep picking at, while Simers is like a gnat we all ignore.

85

I like that.

85. If only it were so.
And Steve, you are clearly bright and insightful unlike either of the writers at the Times. So perhaps you can give your opinion without the name calling. Obviously you can do whatever you like, just my two cents that your opinion comes through much stronger that way.

{88}

so you're telling me that Furcal is better than Izzy, D, wise?? (#'s wise)

91 - nope.

I still haven't seen any defensive numbers.

87 In 2005, Baseball Prospectus has Furcal at +20 Fielding Runs Above Average. He was +3 in 2004.

ESPN has Zone Rating stats on their web site. Furcal was #6 out of 30 SS in 2005.

Furcal only had 15 errors all of last year, while making lots of plays. He hasn't played well defensively for the first half this year, but he definitely did play well in 2005.

In both of their limited careers, Furcal is a better fielder than Izturis.

At second base.

Now, we're talking small sample sizes here, but let's look at these:

Shortstop career stats
Furcal: .964 FP, 4.85 RF, .832 ZR
Izturis: .980 FP, 4.40 RF, .861 ZR

Second Base Career Numbers
Furcal: 255 INN, .993 FP, 4.76 RF, .885 ZR
Izturis: 309 INN, .988 FP, 4.98 RF, .797 ZR

94

Career #'s please!!??

If Jon weren't such a reasonable fellow given to seeing the best in everyone, he might've titled his column, "You talkin' to me?" and not change a word. I think Plaschke was building a straw man at our expense, ladies and gentleman. We've made the big time.