I had a dream last night we picked up Soriano for Repko and Izturis.

I'd like that trade if only we sign him Long Term, We need pitching though (Zito/Schmidt '07)

We have to drop some salary (Kent demands a trade or something)

From Will Carroll in Baseball Prospectus (about an hour ago)

The Dodgers remain buyers, discussing several deals and willing to get creative. One discussed deal for Miguel Tejada involved Rafael Furcal, but the discussions didn't get far, according to one team source.

The Dodgers have resisted including prospects in most of their discussions. "They sound like the Braves," one team source told me. "Logan White knows his system so well that people are getting a little scared to deal with them. When's the last time you saw a Braves prospect pan out?"

3 For your scenarios to work, you better hope that Schmidt doesn't get traded, its doubtful the Giants will resign him but if he gets traded, the new team might offer an extension.

I would not believe anything involving Matt Kemp, too many people like him (Logan White, Grady, and Ned often brings him up as an example of the downside of trading for a rent a player).

If Petit, Pinto, and Vargas really can be gotten for Soriano, Flanders should get that done. I bet that'd be enough to make Plaschke issue a fatwa, too.

you guys think Neds brain is still working properly after 2-3 days of not sleeping properly?

Another bit on the Aybar-Baez-Betemit trade. Jon Heyman on SI.com:

Many people loved the Braves' acquisition of Willy Aybar along with Danys Baez for Betemit. One GM said, "Aybar is as good as Betemit, and he's younger and has a higher ceiling."

How does Aybar have a higher ceiling than Betemit? By all accounts, he has less power, worse in the field, and only just showed up on LA's prospect radar last year. Until his 26-game showcase last year in LA, he'd never had a OPS above .800. He's also only a year younger.

I don't want to trash a guy that's out of the organization, but let's not overrate Aybar.

Many people = mostly equals Braves fans and announcers and a few sportswriters. Most people I've read (scouts, other sportswriters, geeky fans I know) think the Dodgers got the better end of it. All i know is I'm happy, and I also wish Aybar well.

Meanwhile, saw this on mlbtraderumors.com:
"A report from ESPN's Amy Nelson indicates that the Dodgers are the "hottest team on Greg Maddux." According to Nelson:

"The deal would be two L.A. prospects for Maddux; one would be a position player, the other a pitcher. And both would be high-level, likely coming from their loaded Triple-A team in Las Vegas."

Well, let's have a look at Las Vegas's roster. I could see Delwyn Young as a part of this, and maybe Hong-Chih Kuo as the pitcher. Southpaw starter Greg Miller would be an impressive bounty. Anything above that - Andy LaRoche, Joel Guzman, or Matt Kemp - seems highly unlikely to me. Nelson mentions that the quality of the prospects involved increases the more the Cubs pay Maddux's salary. About $3.2MM remains; the Cubs should really just eat all of it and get one top-notch prospect.

Probably meaningless tidbit: Guzman sat out tonight's wild affair against Iowa."

I bet I'm in the minority here(? or maybe not) but I'd actually be up for a trade like that, D Young, as much as I like him, I feel like he's not going to get a chance with LA so this would be good for him, but that he's not close to being a top prospect. Kuo I'd be less happy to part with, but I'm also not convinced he's going to be anything less than erratic, powerful, wild and sometimes good.

What do you all think? Or how about... Young and Hendrickson for Maddux? ;-)

Btw, Jon, I think you got the cereal brand up there wrong - it's actually "Kemp'n Krunch."

4 BTW is anyone as confused about that anonymous quote as I am. Does that mean that, one, if the Dodgers are trading a prospect, they must know something that we don't know or two, all of their players are overhyped.

10 - "By all accounts, he has less power, worse in the field, and only just showed up on LA's prospect radar last year. "

By some accounts, Aybar has a power ceiling as good as or higher than Betemit - his doubles rate already matches Betemit's but at a younger age, meaning that in the end, his slugging percentage could end up higher. Combined with his ability to draw a walk, Aybar could end up being the superior offensive player.

By some accounts, Betemit is a mediocre fielder and Aybar is underrated.

And putting aside that some people had Aybar on their radar before last year, I'm don't see how it is relevant when Aybar showed up on the radar as a prospect. Do Joe Thurston or Billy Ashley or Chin-Feng Chen get extra points for showing up on the radar? Until fairly recently, Betemit himself was being labeled a disappointment by some, from what I've read. Should that matter?

Let's not overrate Aybar, but let's not underrate him either. A great many people like him.

To add to 11, Rosenthal says The Dodgers, Maddux's most likely suitor, increased their pursuit of the future Hall of Famer on Sunday.

He did not, however, mention the Dodgers in the ongoing pursuit of either Soriano or Tejada.

13- One. It's not what he actually said, but I take it that that's what he meant, otherwise what sense would bringing the Braves in to it make?

11 - ""The deal would be two L.A. prospects for Maddux; one would be a position player, the other a pitcher. And both would be high-level, likely coming from their loaded Triple-A team in Las Vegas."

As discussed last night, even as rumors go, this one really lacks credibility.

Tom Meagher over at Fifth Outfielder thinks the Aybar deal was "just awful." Ned's moves have him to the point of being "close to deciding that I can't follow the Dodgers like a fan anymore."

http://fifthoutfielder.blogspot.com/

13 Yeah, I had the same problem with that quote. I think whoever said it is implying that the only prospects the Dodgers are willing to trade are the ones White knows are overrated. But that's sort of true in every trading situation, and anyway, White's not the guy on the phone negotiating the trades.

That quote makes very little sense. Carroll should clean up the context a little bit.

17 I agree with Jon, sorry to see Willy go, reiterating that I liked what I saw in Wilson's play yesterday, the fact that the pundits have split on it tell me that it could be a good deal where both players are getting fresh starts with new teams and management.

18 Wow, Meagher really goes off on Colletti. I think he's a little too strident (won't follow the Dodgers like a fan anymore? C'mon, Tom), but he makes some solid points:

- the Dodgers traded the younger of two comparable players
- the Dodgers traded the slumping player
- the Dodgers acquired a player whose value has been inflated with a small sample and trade-deadline buzz
- the Dodgers didn't save any money
- the Dodgers made a challenge trade with the Braves, the organization that arguably has Baseball's most impressive track record in choosing which talent to discard in trades

Another indictment of Ned as a "buy high, sell low" GM.

18 I just cant understand getting apoplectic about dumping Baez and Aybar. I can understand being sorta miffed about giving up cash along with two players for one - but even then, not much to get in a huff about.

A Los Angeles - Chicago trade:

The Los Angeles times sends TJ Simers and Bill Plaschke to the Chicago Sun-Times for Jay Mariotti and a columnist to be named later.

The only thing i'm questioning about the aybar/baez for betemit trade is the value of aybar/baez, meaning, could ned have gotten more for them.
I think betemit will ops higher than aybar, aybar will have a better obp and betemit will have a better slg and betemit's higher slg will be bigger than aybar's better obp.

T-3 hours 15 minutes and counting down. Will a trade be made? Will the HOF committee realize their shameful oversight and induct Buck O'Neil next year?

By the way, Yahoo Sports columnist Jeff Passan has a great article regarding Buck O'Neil's speech at the HOF yesterday.

24

Of course, that begs of the age-old (c. 2002) question: Which is more important, and by how much: SLG or OBP?

26 On base, by three times according to DePo in Moneyball.

i don't know if someone else has linked this, but there's an article on baseball twitchiness which discusses the batting compulsions of the dodgers' own nomar garciaparra:

http://www.johnfmurray.com/News.aspx?id=457

Of course, that begs of the age-old (c. 2002) question: Which is more important, and by how much: SLG or OBP?

Exactly.
And the way the dodgers offense is shaping up in the near future (more obp than slg) i think the slg from betemit will be more valuable.
But all in all, i see betemit as a slight upgrade over aybar, but did we have to throw in baez for that (not that i like baez, i'm just going back to the question, could ned have gotten more for aybar/baez).

Reg- I believe in your post you misspelled "unnamed Padres executive".

14 - Sorry, "by all accounts" is one of those meaningless phrases used to mean "all the talking heads say it, so it must be true". Your point about Aybar's power being tied to his doubles is accurate.

I'm also not sure how this is a "buy high, sell low" trade. Aybar's value should be pretty high right now, given how well he's hitting the ball this year, showing home run potential for the first time (albeit in Vegas). And Betemit was considered one of the top prospects in baseball not too long ago.

To take the trade as two similar players perhaps needing a fresh start is one, but is Aybar "low" and Betemit "high"?

The effect of throwing in Baez is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

From Will Carroll at BP, who is running down and reporting rumors throughout the morning:

"The Dodgers now seem a more likely destination for Greg Maddux than the Padres. Jim Hendry is reportedly willing to eat salary to get a prospect back, and someone like Joel Guzman or Matt Kemp is the kind of upside with questions hitter that both sides could agree on."

The Maddux-Dodgers rumor seems to be getting the most distribution. That doesn't make it anymore credible, of course. I'm not sure I see the point in even pursuing Maddux, but whatever. It's just a rumor.

28

good read.

32
"And someone like Greg Maddux is the kind of no upside with questions pitcher Ned can agree on."

31- The selling low bit is about Baez. You call him a throw in; other people call Aybar the throw-in. I don't see the basis for calling either a throw-in.

I don't think a rumor about acquiring Maddux isn't credible as rumors go - I think doing it for two high-level AAA prospects isn't credible.

"The Dodgers now seem a more likely destination for Greg Maddux than the Padres. Jim Hendry is reportedly willing to eat salary to get a prospect back, and someone like Joel Guzman or Matt Kemp is the kind of upside with questions hitter that both sides could agree on."

I can see Guzman gone, but Kemp I really doubt.

but Kemp I really doubt.

You're underestimating ned (flanders).

In this battle of dual personalities, will PR Flack Flanders or Baseball Flanders win?

38 - Colletti has said about a hundred times that Kemp is untouchable, and he's the one who pushed for Kemp's promotion to begin with.

40 - I should probably say "he's the one who approved" - I don't know if he's the one who "pushed."

40-41

Well i hope you are right.
Ned scares the hell out of me.

40 Using the awesome logic of 'If Atlanta can promote players from AA, why can't I?', which I always found amusing.

if I remember correctly, Kim Ng pushed for Kemp's promotion after visiting Jacksonville

I had nightmares last night about giving up Guzman for Maddux.

That said, it still hasn't happened...yet.

Can't we please--please--retire the whole Nedusa/Flanders thing? It's really witless and petulant, like 'Stupidesta.'

I'll retract that plea, though, if we move a serious prospect for Maddux.

But I saw some sources last night saying Kemp was a don't touch guy

My mind is also blown by the fact that it seems like so many of the recent trades occurring today and yesterday have involved AA garbagemen relievers. How come we cant part with something like that for a decent major leaguer? Why do all our trade rumors involve serious AAA prospects?

As one who is no particular Ned fan (a fence sitter, leaning toward the negative), I just don't believe he would trade one of our top-ceiling kids for 74 year old Greg Maddux. I'm setting myself for the fall in about 2.5 hours, but I'm going to give the mustache the benefit of the doubt.

47 - You're taking rumors seriously - that's your first mistake.

There is no way Ned would trade Kemp. After his initial explosion into the Bigs, the average fan sees Kemp as the boy who would be king, our future leader who will lead us through the desert to the promise land. I am not saying this is true but it is perception and as Steve often points out (and I agree), Ned only makes moves that can be sold in the media or ones that fly under the radar of the LAT and/or casual fan. (Such as trading Joel Whathisname, who most fans don't remember) Trading Kemp is not such a move. Such a move is too risky for a media sycophant like Ned.

45- I don't think Flanders is inherently pejorative. I remember Mr. Ned used to be popular but haven't seen it in a while. I wonder if that's because the source fell from grace.

49 Indeed. Perhaps I should start doing something productive today instead of focusing on rumors. You know, something like uh, my job.

Crikey, I have a job! Had almost forgotten. Thanks bevens. Whew.

Mr. Ned's a little funnier.

We're all a little jittery around here, though, I'd guess. When 1:30 rolls around I just pray we're all relieved. (And not by a pitcher with a 4+ ERA.)

I wonder if that's because the source fell from grace

I'm not sure the source ever really achieved "grace" around here. He started at neutral, and has fallen precipitously from there.

Aaron Pratt is the RPS (Rock,Paper, Scissors)King

54 - but what if we get him for Lance Carter?

My office has a streaming tv thing over the desktops, with a "special channel" for training programs(it's never used). During the World Cup someone switched the special channel over to ESPN.

So I just checked in -- they're showing a US RPS challenge tournament.

56 I guess I'm not the only one!

45 -- I had nightmares last night about giving up Guzman for Maddux.

I've heard people say Guzman is fools gold.

I keep hitting refresh at Inside the Dodgers. Nothing yet.

56 I was impressed with the amount of beer that was consumed during that program. Glad to see the RPS combatants are serious about what they do.

47 Partly that is due (at least rumor wise) because of the talent in the system, you just aim higher when dealing with the Dodgers, Angels or D-Backs.

In a deal that did not get a lot of press due to the depth of the Angels system was a deal for AAA/MLB reliever Jason Bulger for Alberto Callaspo, who was listed behind Kendrick, Ayber and Wood but still a top ten prospect and he has done nothing but solidify his status with his AAA season with Arizona.

My point is that for the first time in several, several years, the Dodgers have a system that is producing talent, all that talk about the Dodgers always trading prospects is simply not true, sure did they trade Konerko and Pedro, yes, but they also traded Diggins and Rodriquez.

This year is the first test of several where the Dodgers will be tested in how they use their prospects, now sure, some will be moved because maybe there are others they value higher or there are simply needs at the MLB level that are no players in their system can deal with at this time.

Just a little more than 2 hours to go, so we will see how this plays out.

59 I guess I'm not the only one!

I'm watching ESPN as well see if anything happens.

After seeing the insanity of this weekend, I'm a little upset we didn't get more for Baez. Middle relievers have given teams Austin Kearns, Felipe Lopez and Bobby Abreu. Baez being basically a throw in on a Betemit for Aybar deal is a little sad in comparison.

36 No, I agree, and I think the mlbtraderumors blogger thought so, too. What would be more credible is trading someone like Young for Maddux. Not credible: Kemp, or Guzman or.. any of the supposed untouchables. I really do believe Colletti is sticking to his guns on those players and that's what they haven't gotten Soriano or those sorts.

Now, Maddux for Lance Carter and Young, that sounds okay to me. Addition by subtraction!

As for the Betamint Gum for Baez and Aybar trade, I really do think that's one of those trades that's good for both teams and should be left at that. The Braves needed relief pitching, and the Dodgers offered Baez for Betamit. The Braves in turn said, we need someone to then replace Betamit, and this deal won't get done unless Aybar is thrown in. I'm sure this is the basics of it all. I wish Baez and Aybar the best. But I'm happy with Betamit. I don't know what else the Dodgers need to do to compete this season, but my eyes are on the future and so far, none of the untouchables have been touched, so the future still looks bright.

I am assuming that Dodgers left for Cincy this morning so I would not expect any deals for any players on the 25 man roster but who knows, I guess at least that player would be packed already so he could get on a plane and go to his new team.

39 PR Flack Flanders : Baseball Flanders :: Relationship George : Independent George ??

65 You have to look at things like contracs and how long a team can keep a player under their control, one reason I thought Baez was a candidate to be moved was that he was a free agent at the end of the year.

But because he is a free agent and arbitration eligible (and despite what we may think, he probably is no worse than a 5 million dollar a year player), he does not have the cache of younger pitchers that are not arbitration eligible yet, which are exactly the type of pitchers that the Reds got from Washington.

69 True. That complaint wasn't entirely serious anyway.

65 Baez being basically a throw in on a Betemit for Aybar deal is a little sad in comparison

you think Saito can bring somebody in (his sealing is really high right now) how about Kou?

71 My first wish is trade Izturis. After that, Saito and Nomar can go.

I'll be glad when all this trade talk is over with and Bob can come back.

So, turns out there's actually a game being played right now. Utley 0-2.

The rumor mongering has reached a fever-pitch. Olney and the folks talking about Andrew Jones to Boston for Hansen/Crisp, maybe even Lester as well...Yeah, right.

Will Carrol loses crediblilty when he suggests the Dodgers might be moving JtD or Kemp for Maddox. As someone pointed out it might be D Young who would be top 10 prospect in the Cub organization but were not dealing a top 20 overall prospect for an over the hill HOF pitcher. If this turns out to be true I'll be the most shocked and dissapointed Ned backer here.
I would not be surprised to see LaRoche and Guzman moved but not for Maddox.

If you need a distraction, follow the Pirates for the next couple hours and see how badly they bomb the trade deadline.

Meagher echoes my thoughts perfectly regarding Colletti overall. The Aybar deal only makes sense if you buy the hype from scouts regarding Betemit. The scouts like Betemit, they dont like Aybar. However, their minor league careers parallel each other rather closely, with Aybar having a large upper hand in plate discipline, and Betemit hitting 9Hrs this year.

But onto other news.

The Tigers traded for 1b Sean Casey, and in the process sent Chris Shelton to AAA. This is the type of move that deserves negative reprecussions for the Tigers. Its just ridiculously stupid. I can only hope their abnormally lucky season crashes, and that both the White Sox and Twins catch them.

follow the Pirates for the next couple hours

They moved Casey off the payroll, so I think they've already won.

Tthey've still have Craig Wilson, and a couple others who need to be moved.

Moving Shelton to AAA is a blow to my fantasy team.

78 C'mon Joey, at some point scouts have to mean something or else the slide rule nerds would run the world.

Whats the rationale for the Tigers taking on Sean Casey's contract, giving him 1st base, and putting Shelton at AAA?

Is the difference between Shelton and Casey going to make an ounce of difference for the Tigers?

I think the Orioles have done well to position themselves for a poor showing come the deadline. If you believe all the rumors they effectively missed out on combinations of the following:

Roy Oswalt
Morgan Ensberg
Adam Everett
Hank Blalock
John Danks
Joaquin Arias
Possible return booty for trading Blalock or Ensberg

81 Slide-rule nerds DID run the world from 1949-1978. Then pocket-calculater nerd took over from 1979-1994. Now, Excel-spreadsheet nerds run the world. Get used to it.

82 Nope, it's a tremendously bad move. Maybe they assume Dmitri Young will be in jail soon.

While Shelton was sent down, they continue to let Craig Monroe and his .276 on base swing the bat.

82 Veteran leadership and clubhouse chemistry. It also gives them someone closer to Leyland's age so Jim can have someone to talk too.

78- Better to say that you agree with him than that he "echoes your thoughts."

While Shelton was sent down, they continue to let Craig Monroe and his .276 on base swing the bat

Brandon Inge and Polanco have bad OBP's too. I'm beginning to wonder how the Tigers have a 70-34 record. Have they beating the Royals every single time or something? If any team is due for a big let down, it has to be them.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but from SI.com:

The Dodgers are talking to the Nats about a deal that might send top third base prospect Andy La Roche and two other prospects east for Soriano.

88 They hit the jack, and they play really good defense. I refuse to comment on their starting pitching.

On the good news front, everyone can thank me for JD Drew's power resurgence. When he came up with the bases loaded, I knew he would get the granny. Why? Because I had just dropped him from my fantasy league, 9 HRs this year; I drop him and he gets 2 in three games.

87

"echoes your thoughts" sounds more creative though.

89 that would not surprise me at all.

Maybe Ned's gonna trade for Shelton. :-)

Casey's also a left handed bat, which the Tigers really wanted.

89 I would think Bowden would be more interested in other players that don't play the same position as Zimmerman. In any case, I hope that's just a rumor.

89 And ESPN said that the Dodgers were dead and only the Marlins have the pitching prospects that the Nationals crave.

I have not gauged how accurate anyone is on their rumor reporting but cnnsi.com does not appear to have a good track record.

92- That's the problem. It's perfectly acceptable when the thoughts in question really are at all likely to have come from the party saying they echo his own. When there's no reason to believe that, as here, it sounds as though that party is claiming credit for something to which he has no claim.

91 I'm sorry, that's too funny.

You know what word you don't hear very much these days?

Smartball.

I can't remember the last time I heard that.

98 Is there a more fortunate team than the White Sox in recent years? Last year, they get career years from all their pitchers, and win a World Series.

This year, their pitching goes to hell, but then Joe Crede, A.J. Pierzynski, and Jermaine Dye start mashing.

96 I have not gauged how accurate anyone is on their rumor reporting but cnnsi.com does not appear to have a good track record.

they have a thing were they have pictures of the "nastiest pitches" & they don't have Gagne's offspeed pitch. I don't get it.

Utley singles.

Is there another GM that could have gotten less for Abreu and Thome than the Phils GM did?

If I was a Phils fan, I'd want a regime change.

John Manuel in an ESPN chat said "the Joel Guzmans, James Loneys and Justin Orenduffs of the organization should probably be available for the right piece(s)," and mentioned his only untouchables (of Dodger minor leaguers) are Scott Elbert, Blake DeWitt, and Matt Kemp.

99 Well, Pierzynski isn't exactly out of line with his career numbers - his recent streak of 8 hits in his last 9 ABs has sent his OPS just north of .800, but for the bulk of the season it's been in the high .700s, which is more or les the norm for him.

But yeah, Crede and Dye and having great seasons.

99 Well, Pierzynski isn't exactly out of line with his career numbers - his recent streak of 8 hits in his last 9 ABs has sent his OPS just north of .800, but for the bulk of the season it's been in the high .700s, which is more or les the norm for him.

But yeah, Crede and Dye and having great seasons.

89. Hope that's not true - if we're giving up LaRoche, I'd hope it'd be for more than a rent-a-player, because even if we sneak into the playoffs, this ain't our year. If they can get him with an extension, fine, but I just don't think we've got enough, even with him, to justify giving up an elite guy for two months of a rent-a-player.

103 Well Orenduff is hurt and the other 2 do get question marks from both scouts and stats guys so I guess that would be true.

Guzman still is the only top ten prospect that is mentioned as being available.

89 Does sending LaRoche to the Nationals even make sense? Why logjam him behind Zimmerman?

102 Yes! And we all know him well...

I know the deal hasn't happened, and probably won't happen, but which one of us picked "a 40-year old pitcher" in the "who will Joel Guzman be traded for?" pool last year?

[looks around]

Anyone? Anyone?

You really can't look at the Phillies deals that way. Gillick is trying to clear payroll, and rebuild that organization from the ground up. I'm not saying he got the most, but sometimes other teams are higher on minor league players than scouts and "experts" are.

102 I think the Thome deal was solid, given the season he was coming off of, but he should have been able to get something besides nothing for Abreu.

103
That is great news. I do not have to worry about Elbert or DeWitt, but I do have to worry about Andy LaRoche.

108 No, not unless you're planning to move Zimmerman or Laroche in a three way trade.

98 Yeah, it's HIGHlarious. Really, it is always my luck. Sheets sucks, I trade him, then he takes off; someone offers me another player that's been good all season, I bite, then he tails. The sad thing is that I've come to acceptance not only about the Dodgers but my own fantasy team!
(it really is funny, though)

Padres get Todd Walker for 3rd base. Looks like they won't be giving up much, and his salary is being paid for by the Cubs.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9579681

A)We have no idea what Gillick was offered.
B)Abreu had a complete no tradeclause, and would only wave it for the Yankees (he said so publicly).
C) Everybody on that team not named Utley and Howard are gone at the end of this year (pitching staff not withstanding).

115 Maybe that means Izzy is going to them in a trade...

Thats a good deal for the Padres.
They probably get some picks for Todd Walker at the end of the year too.

115 From the same article:

"Meanwhile, on another Cubs front, talks surrounding right-hander Greg Maddux appear tepid at best. The Padres remain interested, and a source with knowledge of the talks say the Los Angeles Dodgers are only minimally interested."

I hope by minimally interested they mean "will not give up one of our best prospects for an over-the-hill HOF."

[115] From the same article:

talks surrounding right-hander Greg Maddux appear tepid at best. The Padres remain interested, and a source with knowledge of the talks say the Los Angeles Dodgers are only minimally interested.

from that same link in 115

Meanwhile, on another Cubs front, talks surrounding right-hander Greg Maddux appear tepid at best. The Padres remain interested, and a source with knowledge of the talks say the Los Angeles Dodgers are only minimally interested.

Gadzooks :)

ha. at 119-121

Where's D4P when you need him.

This is all such great news haha. I can go back to class and not be worried.

Hey, did anybody hear that the Dodgers are only minimally interested in Maddux?

No, that's not true. I hear they're minimally interested.

119 120 121

That's exciting non-news.

118 Do you think they would offer arbitration to Walker?

I hope the Twins get Soriano.

Where's D4P when you need him

Heh heh. I don't want to wear out the joke...

I hope Soriano gets traded to the Tigers.

The Hanshin Tigers.

If the Twins get Soriano, iron out those Homer Hankies for October.

Update from Will Carroll, in the spirit of "minimal interest":

"One interesting note on Greg Maddux: Indications are that Maddux himself was involved in the discussions, with his agent, Scott Boras, doing more looking around than Jim Hendry. Both sides understood the parameters under which a deal could be done. The relationship between Boras and the Cubs is a good one--something that we should remember when free agency kicks in this offseason. "

C'mon, Flanders. Hang up the phone, go to lunch. There's nothing out there. Come home and we'll build a dynasty together. You're with me, National League West.

Per Fox Sports Duaner Sanchez is out for the year with a separated pitching shoulder.

Espn keeps saying the Nats want multiple pitching prospects for soriano.

So it seems if ned wants soriano, he'll have to give up both billingsley and elbert if not another prospect.

That's just insane.

I've got a feeling ned will unload a dead weight veteran player or 2 for a legit prospects and come out and say to the media that we tried to upgrade the team this season but nothing made sense/too much was asked, so we traded this guy and that guy because we felt they didn't have a future in our organization and we in turn boosted our future a little bit.
And i wouldn't be surprised if izturis was 1 of the 2 guys traded.

Stark says Roberto Hernandez and Oliver Perez to the Mets is close.

Anyone see Duaner involved a taxi cab accident which will keep him out the rest of the season.

Go to fox.com

Oliver Perez? The last time that guy was good was on MVP 2005 for my PS2.

Espn also says that the twins have the pitching prospects needed to land soriano.

I wouldnt have minded Roberto Hernandez. Hes old but probably would come pretty cheap and is still effective and appease the regular fan.

I've got a feeling ned will unload a dead weight veteran player or 2 for a legit prospects.

Isn't that the reverse of the Seo/Navarro deal?

Nady for Oliver Perez and Roberto Hernandez. Perez is young, has electric stuff, and intrigues me.

Isn't that the reverse of the Seo/Navarro deal?

Exactly, i think ned will do it.
He's already satisfied the regular/casual fan by so called upgrading this season, now he needs to satisfy the stats fan.

144 - There must be another deal, or NY is going with Milledge down the stretch. Their outfield is Floyd/Beltran/Endy Chavez right now.

I emailed Will Carroll and got this response in regards to this quote that I highlighted earlier today.

The Dodgers have resisted including prospects in most of their discussions. "They sound like the Braves," one team source told me. "Logan White knows his system so well that people are getting a little scared to deal with them. When's the last time you saw a Braves prospect pan out?"

I asked him if he meant one, teams should be wary of dealing with the Dodgers because they know their prospects so well, if they are willing to trade one of them beware because they might know something you don't know or two, are the Dodger prospects overhyped and not worth as much as you think.

Will said that it was the first answer, Logan White and the Dodgers are really good judges of their talent so if they are willing to trade one of them to you, look first before you leap. In otherwords, it was a compliment to the Dodgers.

When the trading deadline is close, which position would you rather be in.

Dodgers fan: We have a fantastic farm system, please please please don't screw it up.

Yankees fan: We have no farm system, so just spend whatever it takes to get what we need to win now.

Feel free to answer from a hypothetical, philosophical, theological, or any other perspective.

148 Yankee fan. It doesn't matter that you don't have prospects, people just give your their best players anyway and don't ask for the few talents you do have.

I just want to shout out to 103 Eric Stephen, one of my original readers (unless there are multiple Eric Stephens).

less than half an hour to go.

If Izturis and Lofton are still on this team in thirty mins then this trade deadline is a failure.

147 Thanks for that.

152 Lofton will pass through waivers so I am not too concerned about that and I don't think you just give up Izzy unless you get something more than medium grade prospects.

If Izturis and Lofton are still on this team in thirty mins then this trade deadline is a failure.

I agree, my PTIAL (please trade izturis and lofton) campaign is running out of time.

Ned should trade them for a legit prospect.

155. Would Lofton actually get a legit prospect for Lofton at this point? Highly doubt it.

150 Jon, I try real hard to limit pasting from subscription sites but I thought it was an interesting passage and the fact that the Dodgers (Logan White) are getting the rep of only dealing players that don't project too highly is very interesting.

154- I've been meaning to ask this for a long time, but kept forgetting: what are BH sports?

No question if Kent was healthy, there might be more of a push to deal Izzy to his old team Toronto but since he is out for another 2 weeks, I think they have to wait and see.

Also, there is a possilbility that Izzy would pass through waivers too, so a trade in a couple of weeks is certainly possible.

150 Thanks for the shout out Jon! Your site is a must-read for me on a daily basis.

158 I'm guessing BH= Beverly Hills, or maybe British Humor.

158 The BH initially stood for two things, where I worked (Beverly Hills) and where I grew up (Baldwin Hills area of LA), now it just stands for Baldwin Hills.

157 - I don't mind short excerpts like that, that will encourage people to check out the other sites - subscription or not.

160

when did you first start coming here?

I just started like 3 months or so ago.

I always thought it stood for "bit hungry", as in "I'm a bit hungry for sports today, let me go and check out Dodger Thoughts".

162- Thanks.

We are down to the Rangers getting Matt Stairs from KC deals.

Can we actually exhale at 1 pm pacific time, or can a trade still be happening but not yet reported?

Deals get done, come through the Commish office, and get publicized. Deals will be reported up to an hour/hour and a half after the deadline.

167-

If Soriano isn't gone in 19 mins I'll be furious. I'm sooooooo sick of ESPN saying for weeks that a guy is DEFINITELY getting traded then it doesn't happen.

last year it was Burnett, now Soriano.

So did the Royals sign Hochevera?

168 If the deal involves cash considerations, I believe the League office as to sign off on it.

Also, if the deal involved a team like the Dodgers who are traveling, they may want to inform the players before releasing it to the press.

But I do think for the most part, if we don't hear about it within the next hour so, nothing probably happened.

170 I plan on having a hearty laugh at Jim Bowden's expense.

164 I'm not sure how long I've been reading Jon's writing, but at least a couple of years of almost daily lurking.

168 If I remember correctly from past years, some deals get reported as late as a few hours past the deadline. I think the 1pm deadline is for filing paperwork through the commish's office.

173-

he's had weeks to get something for him, now he's on the verge of getting nothing.

175 nothing... except draft picks.

Darn we might have to wait a few more hours then.
This waiting is killing me.

167 Lets not allow Charley Steiner and Rick Monday off the hook for the never ending barrage of 'THIS IS POSSIBLY THE (third to last/second to last/absolute final) TIME WE SEE SORIANO IN A NATIONALS UNIFORM.' during the game yesterday.

176

With Rizzo in the fold, those draft picks will probably be pretty good too.

Maybe Bowden feels 2 1st round picks will amount to more than what Soriano would bring in a trade?

170 Well, there is no secret that Bowden was/is trying to deal him but if he doesn't get what he wants, what is he supposed to do?

ESPN and other news outlets have been reporting that he is going to be dealt primarily because he is a high profile free agent who is playing for a non-contender and Soriano has made no secret that he wants to explore his free agent value after this season. That is the News side of the story.

The hard thing is that ESPN has also become home for commentators whose job is to give opinions (which are not News) but gives the appearance of fact but all it is a speculation.

174 - I feel like you go back to the days when I only had about 40 readers total ... mid 2003. Did you find the site through Baseball Primer?

176-

which actually isn't good for a player of his caliber....you should be able to get a package of players worth more than the picks.

If reports are true then the O's are idiots. They turned down Ervin Santana and Aybar for Tejada? Really?

167 Isn't that how it always goes at this time of the year?

If reports are true then the O's are idiots. They turned down Ervin Santana and Aybar for Tejada? Really?

Worse, they turned down ROY OSWALT.

We all laughed at Jim Bowden when he pulled off this trade, and against all odds, it actually turned out well for him.

If all he can get for Wilkerson and Sledge is a useless season from Soriano, and two draft picks, that's really bad.

If I were Beattie or Flanagan, I think I'd shoot myself. Angelos is an absolute nightmare of an owner.

Well, there is no secret that Bowden was/is trying to deal him but if he doesn't get what he wants, what is he supposed to do?

He's supposed to deal him. He's gotta realize at this point he's asking for too much. If he doesn't get dealt, then I feel sorry for the Nats fans for not getting anything back for one of the best players in the game.

The hard thing is that ESPN has also become home for commentators whose job is to give opinions (which are not News) but gives the appearance of fact but all it is a speculation.

I'm pretty good at differentiating between fact and opinion. These guys have said over and over and over that things are "done" when they're not. A week or so ago a headline on espn.com on a wednesday was "Bonds to be indicted Thursday". Didn't happen.

There are tons of examples like this. They report things as being "done" over and over and they don't happen. It's irresponsible. I heard Buster Olney at like 2AM on the radio say something like "Soriano will absolutely definitely be traded tomorrow". No "I think" or anything. ESPN has just been jumping the gun on everything the last couple years and it's getting really, really old.

182 Hey I broke in April 2003. I have the email trail to prove it! Back then Jon's only competition was Sarah Morris and some guy Dodger Kid with a potty mouth.

181 - Very well said.

If you hang breathlessly on every rumor, you're feeding the beast. How can you expect broadcasters to dial down the chatter when there is clearly such an appetite for it?

Most readers and viewers don't hold the media accountable for spreading rumors. If anything, they seem to encourage it. I once wrote a piece on DT criticizing how loose the reporting was during Hot Stove season - that piece received more criticism than almost anything I've written.

If you've been taking the rumors seriously, you're part of the problem. If you want reporting you can trust, reporting that doesn't rely on unnamed sources that aren't even in on the conversations, you have to act like it while the bad reporting is going on.

Rule 1: Don't deal with Jim Bowden. He has turned into a good GM (at least during this deadline)

I'd do Izturis and Guzman for Soriano, but I doubt the Nats would. I think the draft picks would be more valuable than those 2 players.

If Ned wants to win the division, he should let the Padres acquire Greg Maddux.

Craig Wilson for Shawn Chacon.

who is our Chacon?

Yeah, BigCPA's one of the originals, too.

192 And the Yankees win again. Sele or Hendrickson wasn't good enough?

Nate: Matt Garza and Scott Baker for Soriano, that is what Bowden wants according to Will Carroll, Twins wanted to sub Kubel for Garza but that was rebuffed. What do you think, also Soriano has reportedly said that he will not negotiate anything during the season.

Well I am very happy with us doing no deals.

Kubel is gonna be a masher, but I wouldn't trade Garza for almost anybody. That kid is legit.

take Kubel and Baker and run with it Bowden! you crazy idiot!

If you've been taking the rumors seriously, you're part of the problem. If you want reporting you can trust, reporting that doesn't rely on unnamed sources that aren't even in on the conversations, you have to act like it while the bad reporting is going on.

I'm not talking about taking rumors seriously, I'm talking about ESPN reporting stuff as done when it's not.

This isn't just a baseball thing either, they do it with everything. Like I pointed out about the Bonds indictment...last year they said the AJ Burnett deal was "done" about 20 times. Remember when Sheffield signed with the Yanks a couple years ago and ESPN officially reported it with a picture of Sheffield in a Yankees cap? That wasn't even done at the time. It took literally a week after that to get done and they weren't even sure.

I have fun with rumors but I don't take them as more than rumors. What I have a problem with is ESPN reporting this stuff as being done when it's not.

198 What do you really think?

188 - "These guys have said over and over and over that things are "done" when they're not."

Yep. Now you know for the future. It's not enough for someone to come on the air and say this stuff. They need to provide an on-the-record source.

168, 182 I think I did come over through Baseball Primer. I can't pinpoint the exact time or reason, but it was either a response to one of your comments in a Dodger thread there, or from a link to one of your blog posts.

I used to keep an Excel spreadsheet of the Dodger roster/organization, with payroll data (still do), and I was pleased to find that someone else was interested enough in the Dodgers to keep track of that. I've been hooked ever since.

192-

how do the yankees keep making these trades?

201-

Yep. Now you know for the future. It's not enough for someone to come on the air and say this stuff. They need to provide an on-the-record source.

Agreed. ESPN had just become an outlet that I'd trust because I had no reason not to. So, up until a couple years ago when this stuff started I had no reason not to believe someone who made a report on camera.

Any more last minute deals?

Can someone explain why ESPN cut away from their Trade Deadline special to run an Outside the Lines piece on Mark McGwire's HOF chances from 12:40 to 1PM? Then at 1 they go to an NFL show. Tejada, Zito and Soriano deals could go down and they have no one there to discuss it. Bizarre.

204 Deals will be trickling in for the next hour or so.

We got Maddux. Not sure for whom.

Whoa! For Izzy!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5832966

Maddux and cash to the Dodgers, no word on who goes the other way.

booo.

208-

SOURCE!!?!?!?

207 If it was for a Ragliani level player, that's fine. I was really upset I missed Maddux this season, this gives me one last chance to see him.

207 If it was for a Ragliani level player, that's fine. I was really upset I missed Maddux this season, this gives me one last chance to see him.

211 cnnSI

207 If it was for a Ragliani level player, that's fine. I was really upset I missed Maddux this season, this gives me one last chance to see him.

Why Ned, why? Please don't be any good prospects. Is Maddux really an upgrade over guys like Sele or Hendrickson? Please don't be Kuo or Miller. Delwyn Young has to be part of the deal.

207 If it was for a Ragliani level player, that's fine. I was really upset I missed Maddux this season, this gives me one last chance to see him.

The text from cnnSI:

Greg Maddux has been traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers for infielder Cesar Izturis, SI.com has learned.

YES! lol

Greg Maddux has been traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers for infielder Cesar Izturis, SI.com has learned

http://tinyurl.com/q54wa

what the hell. Maddux for Izturis.

Greg Maddux is going to the Dodgers as the Cubs deal the future Hall of Famer to L.A. for infielder Cesar Izturis, CBS SportsLine.com's Scott Miller has learned.

207 If it was for a Ragliani level player, that's fine. I was really upset I missed Maddux this season, this gives me one last chance to see him.

168,182,202

I think I came over from Baseball Primer (after reading Billy Beane's book) at about the trade deadline of the '04 season. It was a way to escape the anti-depodestians during the "troubles". I didn't post until much later though.

Meanwhile, ESPN has a little feature on the impact of Reggie White's jump to Green Bay on NFL free agency.

Are you freaking kidding me? I'm not a big Izturis fan, but Ned just got taken to the cleaners. I'm sure we could have gotten far more in a package deal.

this is a great, great trade. Getting Izturis out of the lineup every day is addition by subtraction.

It's too bad Hendrickson didn't get jettisoned in the process.

So the Padres give up a 19 yr old pitcher with crappy numbers in rookieball for todd walker and we have to give up a bonafide big league SS in izturis for maddux. Unbelievable.

So, who plays 2B until Kent comes back...?

Stupid browser. I'm down with Maddux for Izzy.

CBS Sportsline is reporting Maddux for Izzy, no mention of any other players involved.

Maddux for Izturis, but LA must also be paying Cesar's salary for next year, because the deal involves more than $1M cash changing hands (need commish's approval).

If there's a "Ned Trade Trend", it's his willingness to drop a few mill in every trade to cover salaries. Disturbing, but in lieu of more prospects, not a bad strategy.

Robothal is reporting the trade as well...

http://tinyurl.com/q9kk2

And Dodger Thoughts participants melt down in 5...4...3...2...1

Wow, i'm glad izturis is gone, but this is another example of ned not getting enough in trades.
We should have gotten more for izturis.

226-

I honestly think just about everyone here vastly overrates Izturis' worth.

A guy with a good glove who can't hit is a utility player. I'm surprised we actually were able to get Maddux for him.

232 The cash is going from the Cubs to the Dodgers.

The Cubs now have a middle infield of Izzy, Cedeno, and Neifi! And we thought Izzy/Cora was bad?

Nats chatters are wondering if Bowden screwed up the timezone.

237 - Even better then. I saw that blurb, and assumed it would cover Izzy's contract for next year.

I'll miss Izzy, but seemed to be on his way out for awhile and I guess we can look at this now as - room for the kids next year; Betemit is an upgrade over Izzy at 3rd; and Maddux is an upgrade over Hendrickson in the rotation (unless he's replacing Billingsley, which I hope isn't the case).

Mostly I'm happy with this, and also because: no prospect was given up! But I really like Izturis personally and he handled his position switches and the roller coaster this year with grace and diplomacy, and for that he has my respect. He's a good guy and has a superb glove. Never really very confident in his bat. But I wish him the best.

So is Chad going to be sent down to work on his control? I suppose that could be a good thing.

I am looking on the bright side, we didn't trade any prospects.

This is Ned's best trade yet.
The key is moving Izzy's salary off the books for next year. Mission accomplished.

Who cares what we got?
The team is done for this year. Maddux wont make a difference.

However, moving Izzy's contract off the books for 2007 was needed.

If Ned just doesnt do anything else, then good job at the deadline.

In other news, Mike Maddux is now DQed from the "Dodger Blues Wrong Brother" list.

240-

Exactly.

We just upgraded over Hendrickson, and ditched the Human Out Machine in the process...and now have three more million to put towards Zito/Schmidt next year.

The previous comment that trading Izzy is addition by subtraction is right on.

This trade was worth it just to clear Izzy's salary from 2007. I can't imagine he had that much trade value.

I'm not quite sure how maddux makes us any better. It's not that I'm not happy Izzy won't be hurting our lineup on an everyday basis, and I think just taking away the option for Grady to play him is a good thing. But Maddux is done, and I feel like enough teams overvalued izzy enough to get a bit more out of it. This trade probably hurts the cubs, who will see Izzy as their SS of the future, while not making us any better and getting rid of what could be a good utility guy.

I am firmly in favor of this trade. I don't even want Izturis in the lineup, so why wouldn't I trade him for Maddux -- who has slumped but it not necessarily done yet.

228 Nate, I'd rather have Maddux than Todd Walker. He's really... "eh."

And we get cash, too!

Well, I don't personally get cash, which would make this deal even better! But you get my draft.

229 That is the question isn't it? Blake DeWitt? ;-) Maybe Betemit will play 2nd and 3rd - he's that good. (Heh.) No, I'm guessing it will be Ramon Martinez.

229 Ramon Martinez, yes?

Pirate fans must be livid right now.

The Cubs now have a middle infield of Izzy, Cedeno, and Neifi!

Izzy is the heir apparent to Neifi.
I really like this trade. Izzy was horrible with the bat, and now its like one less problem for Grits to have to face.

Dumping Izzy is like dumping Dave Roberts two years. Addition by subtraction.

236. Totally agree. The guy can't hit.

226. What would Izturis alone have gotten that'd have been worth more to us than Maddux? Would you have rather seen him packaged with some combo of Guzman/LaRoche/Billingsley/Kemp for someone, because you know that's all Ned heard?

Maddux should replace Sele in the rotation, not Chad.

huh!?!??! Lugo!?!?!?

Dodgers got Lugo. Guzman and Pedroza

Dios Mio.

NOOOOO
Lugo for Guzman and Pedroza

The Dodgers acquired Lugo for Pedroza and Guzman. Why?

Uh ok.. The Dodgers picked up Julio Lugo...

Julio Lugo for Joel guzman@!@!!???

Why are some people so down on Maddux? Among qualified NL starters he's 17th of 46 in WHIP, 26th of 46 in ERA, 13th of 46 in ERC. How is that not a huge upgrade for any team's fifth starter?

someone just told me we got Lugo!?!?!

Lugo?

According to CBS.SportsLine.com's Scott Miller, Alfonso Soriano won't be traded.

I have no idea what to think. I guess we save money.

Lugo for Joel Guzman!

Someone ban talking to the Devil Rays. This is ridiculous!

263 Source?

At least we get two draft picks for Lugo at the end of the year.

Lugo for Guzman??? I am without words.

"Getting Izturis out of the lineup" loses much of its lustre if "Getting Lucille II in the lineup" is a result.

WOW......lugo makes NO sense

Izzy to Cubs, my heart is hurt.

Wow - that's quite a Lugolanche.

I like this deal. You can't expect much more return for a utility infielder making $3 Mil a season.

Thumbs up on Maddux deal.

Thumbs down on the Lugo one, if true, though I'll await the details and have to think about it a bit longer.

And, Jon, you're right, Maddux should replace Sele. (Or Hendrickson. But Hendrickson in the bullpen scares me more than hendrickson as a starter.)

So when Kent comes back, we have 5 infielders for 4 positions? Or are we going with a 2-5 configuration?

How many shortstops does a team need, anyway?

STOP TRADING WITH THE DEVIL RAYS!

All the good of this Izzy for Maddux deal has been wiped away by this one!

WTF?

If this is true, Firing Ned Colletti would be too good for him.

Lugo! A two month rental for Guzman and Pedroza!

STOP TRADING WITH THE DEVIL RAYS!

All the good of this Izzy for Maddux deal has been wiped away by this one!

When the D-Rays call, do not pick up!

Where is Lugo playing? And why did we just get Betemit? The braintrust must really have soured on Guzman -- maybe because of "attitude" issues.

*Dodgers got Lugo. Guzman and Pedroza

Dios Mio.*

I smell "super utility" player

*Dodgers got Lugo. Guzman and Pedroza

Dios Mio.*

I smell "super utility" player

Maddux isn't an impact acquisition, and the Dodgers didn't lose anything of value. If nothing else, it'll be fun to watch Maddux because of his name and his history, but the effectiveness isn't there anymore.

Greg's K rates have declined each of the last 3 seasons. HR rates plateau'd around 30 per season and BAA is up. BB rate has remained low. As a result, it's not surprising his ERA is up around 4.80, and I wouldn't expect much more than that going forward.

Rotoworld's take on the Lugo trade:

Now this one is a surprise. Lugo said he didn't want to be moved off shortstop, but that seems certain to happen in Los Angeles. He can play second in place of Jeff Kent for now and then maybe move to third base once Kent returns. Especially after already getting Wilson Betemit, this is a very heavy price for the Dodgers to pay. Guzman remains an excellent long-term prospect, and Pedroza has a chance to become a regular corner outfielder.

Everybody calm down. Lugo is a very good hitter, will play second base (Kent is done this year, deal with it), We all know Guzman is vastly overrated, and Pedroza really didn't fit into the plan. If Lugo leaves, we get draft picks for him.

And cue the massive overraction to my statement.

Julio Lugo. Another Devil Ray in the middle of a career year. Buy high, sell low indeed.

We have now acquired one-fifth of the 2005 Devil Rays. Words fail me.

Do we realize Lugo now leads the team in homers? He's a nice player, and clearly Logan White was down on Guzman. I actually don't mind this deal, I just want to see how we configure the infield.

232 After Nomar gets off the DL, he plays third, Bettemit to second, Loney to first base, Martinez to back up the infield. Until Kent gets back, of course. I have no pro or con feelings on this trade. Sure would have liked to see Cruz or Lofton going instead of Izzy. He would have made a good infield backup, although more expensive than Martinez.

6 years of Guzman for 57 games of Lugo. Lugo hit 6 HR in 616 ab's last year.

259-What source? To me now, they still have too many middle infielders on the 25 man roster. Is Lugo going to play second?

You think this would be part of a 3-way trade with Boston or Houston so we can get a SP! Otherwise Lugo doesn't make sense with Furcal already at SS.

The possibly baseless speculation on ESPN is that either Kent or Nomar is more seriously hurt than we think and that's why they got Lugo.