The Dodgers remain buyers, discussing several deals and willing to get creative. One discussed deal for Miguel Tejada involved Rafael Furcal, but the discussions didn't get far, according to one team source.

The Dodgers have resisted including prospects in most of their discussions. "They sound like the Braves," one team source told me. "Logan White knows his system so well that people are getting a little scared to deal with them. When's the last time you saw a Braves prospect pan out?"

Many people loved the Braves' acquisition of Willy Aybar along with Danys Baez for Betemit. One GM said, "Aybar is as good as Betemit, and he's younger and has a higher ceiling."

I don't want to trash a guy that's out of the organization, but let's not overrate Aybar.

Meanwhile, saw this on mlbtraderumors.com:
"A report from ESPN's Amy Nelson indicates that the Dodgers are the "hottest team on Greg Maddux." According to Nelson:

"The deal would be two L.A. prospects for Maddux; one would be a position player, the other a pitcher. And both would be high-level, likely coming from their loaded Triple-A team in Las Vegas."

Well, let's have a look at Las Vegas's roster. I could see Delwyn Young as a part of this, and maybe Hong-Chih Kuo as the pitcher. Southpaw starter Greg Miller would be an impressive bounty. Anything above that - Andy LaRoche, Joel Guzman, or Matt Kemp - seems highly unlikely to me. Nelson mentions that the quality of the prospects involved increases the more the Cubs pay Maddux's salary. About $3.2MM remains; the Cubs should really just eat all of it and get one top-notch prospect.

Probably meaningless tidbit: Guzman sat out tonight's wild affair against Iowa."

I bet I'm in the minority here(? or maybe not) but I'd actually be up for a trade like that, D Young, as much as I like him, I feel like he's not going to get a chance with LA so this would be good for him, but that he's not close to being a top prospect. Kuo I'd be less happy to part with, but I'm also not convinced he's going to be anything less than erratic, powerful, wild and sometimes good.

What do you all think? Or how about... Young and Hendrickson for Maddux? ;-)

By some accounts, Aybar has a power ceiling as good as or higher than Betemit - his doubles rate already matches Betemit's but at a younger age, meaning that in the end, his slugging percentage could end up higher. Combined with his ability to draw a walk, Aybar could end up being the superior offensive player.

By some accounts, Betemit is a mediocre fielder and Aybar is underrated.

And putting aside that some people had Aybar on their radar before last year, I'm don't see how it is relevant when Aybar showed up on the radar as a prospect. Do Joe Thurston or Billy Ashley or Chin-Feng Chen get extra points for showing up on the radar? Until fairly recently, Betemit himself was being labeled a disappointment by some, from what I've read. Should that matter?

Let's not overrate Aybar, but let's not underrate him either. A great many people like him.

He did not, however, mention the Dodgers in the ongoing pursuit of either Soriano or Tejada.

As discussed last night, even as rumors go, this one really lacks credibility.

http://fifthoutfielder.blogspot.com/

That quote makes very little sense. Carroll should clean up the context a little bit.

- the Dodgers traded the younger of two comparable players
- the Dodgers traded the slumping player
- the Dodgers acquired a player whose value has been inflated with a small sample and trade-deadline buzz
- the Dodgers didn't save any money
- the Dodgers made a challenge trade with the Braves, the organization that arguably has Baseball's most impressive track record in choosing which talent to discard in trades

Another indictment of Ned as a "buy high, sell low" GM.

The Los Angeles times sends TJ Simers and Bill Plaschke to the Chicago Sun-Times for Jay Mariotti and a columnist to be named later.

By the way, Yahoo Sports columnist Jeff Passan has a great article regarding Buck O'Neil's speech at the HOF yesterday.

Of course, that begs of the age-old (c. 2002) question: Which is more important, and by how much: SLG or OBP?

http://www.johnfmurray.com/News.aspx?id=457

Exactly.
And the way the dodgers offense is shaping up in the near future (more obp than slg) i think the slg from betemit will be more valuable.
But all in all, i see betemit as a slight upgrade over aybar, but did we have to throw in baez for that (not that i like baez, i'm just going back to the question, could ned have gotten more for aybar/baez).

I'm also not sure how this is a "buy high, sell low" trade. Aybar's value should be pretty high right now, given how well he's hitting the ball this year, showing home run potential for the first time (albeit in Vegas). And Betemit was considered one of the top prospects in baseball not too long ago.

To take the trade as two similar players perhaps needing a fresh start is one, but is Aybar "low" and Betemit "high"?

The effect of throwing in Baez is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

"The Dodgers now seem a more likely destination for Greg Maddux than the Padres. Jim Hendry is reportedly willing to eat salary to get a prospect back, and someone like Joel Guzman or Matt Kemp is the kind of upside with questions hitter that both sides could agree on."

The Maddux-Dodgers rumor seems to be getting the most distribution. That doesn't make it anymore credible, of course. I'm not sure I see the point in even pursuing Maddux, but whatever. It's just a rumor.

good read.

I can see Guzman gone, but Kemp I really doubt.

You're underestimating ned (flanders).

Well i hope you are right.
Ned scares the hell out of me.

That said, it still hasn't happened...yet.

Can't we please--please--retire the whole Nedusa/Flanders thing? It's really witless and petulant, like 'Stupidesta.'

I'll retract that plea, though, if we move a serious prospect for Maddux.

We're all a little jittery around here, though, I'd guess. When 1:30 rolls around I just pray we're all relieved. (And not by a pitcher with a 4+ ERA.)

I'm not sure the source ever really achieved "grace" around here. He started at neutral, and has fallen precipitously from there.

So I just checked in -- they're showing a US RPS challenge tournament.

I've heard people say Guzman is fools gold.

In a deal that did not get a lot of press due to the depth of the Angels system was a deal for AAA/MLB reliever Jason Bulger for Alberto Callaspo, who was listed behind Kendrick, Ayber and Wood but still a top ten prospect and he has done nothing but solidify his status with his AAA season with Arizona.

My point is that for the first time in several, several years, the Dodgers have a system that is producing talent, all that talk about the Dodgers always trading prospects is simply not true, sure did they trade Konerko and Pedro, yes, but they also traded Diggins and Rodriquez.

This year is the first test of several where the Dodgers will be tested in how they use their prospects, now sure, some will be moved because maybe there are others they value higher or there are simply needs at the MLB level that are no players in their system can deal with at this time.

Just a little more than 2 hours to go, so we will see how this plays out.

I'm watching ESPN as well see if anything happens.

Now, Maddux for Lance Carter and Young, that sounds okay to me. Addition by subtraction!

As for the Betamint Gum for Baez and Aybar trade, I really do think that's one of those trades that's good for both teams and should be left at that. The Braves needed relief pitching, and the Dodgers offered Baez for Betamit. The Braves in turn said, we need someone to then replace Betamit, and this deal won't get done unless Aybar is thrown in. I'm sure this is the basics of it all. I wish Baez and Aybar the best. But I'm happy with Betamit. I don't know what else the Dodgers need to do to compete this season, but my eyes are on the future and so far, none of the untouchables have been touched, so the future still looks bright.

But because he is a free agent and arbitration eligible (and despite what we may think, he probably is no worse than a 5 million dollar a year player), he does not have the cache of younger pitchers that are not arbitration eligible yet, which are exactly the type of pitchers that the Reds got from Washington.

you think Saito can bring somebody in (his sealing is really high right now) how about Kou?

But onto other news.

The Tigers traded for 1b Sean Casey, and in the process sent Chris Shelton to AAA. This is the type of move that deserves negative reprecussions for the Tigers. Its just ridiculously stupid. I can only hope their abnormally lucky season crashes, and that both the White Sox and Twins catch them.

They moved Casey off the payroll, so I think they've already won.

Moving Shelton to AAA is a blow to my fantasy team.

Is the difference between Shelton and Casey going to make an ounce of difference for the Tigers?

Roy Oswalt
Morgan Ensberg
Adam Everett
Hank Blalock
John Danks
Joaquin Arias
Possible return booty for trading Blalock or Ensberg

While Shelton was sent down, they continue to let Craig Monroe and his .276 on base swing the bat.

Brandon Inge and Polanco have bad OBP's too. I'm beginning to wonder how the Tigers have a 70-34 record. Have they beating the Royals every single time or something? If any team is due for a big let down, it has to be them.

The Dodgers are talking to the Nats about a deal that might send top third base prospect Andy La Roche and two other prospects east for Soriano.

"echoes your thoughts" sounds more creative though.

89 I would think Bowden would be more interested in other players that don't play the same position as Zimmerman. In any case, I hope that's just a rumor.

I have not gauged how accurate anyone is on their rumor reporting but cnnsi.com does not appear to have a good track record.

You know what word you don't hear very much these days?

Smartball.

I can't remember the last time I heard that.

This year, their pitching goes to hell, but then Joe Crede, A.J. Pierzynski, and Jermaine Dye start mashing.

they have a thing were they have pictures of the "nastiest pitches" & they don't have Gagne's offspeed pitch. I don't get it.

If I was a Phils fan, I'd want a regime change.

But yeah, Crede and Dye and having great seasons.

But yeah, Crede and Dye and having great seasons.

Guzman still is the only top ten prospect that is mentioned as being available.

[looks around]

Anyone? Anyone?

98 Yeah, it's HIGHlarious. Really, it is always my luck. Sheets sucks, I trade him, then he takes off; someone offers me another player that's been good all season, I bite, then he tails. The sad thing is that I've come to acceptance not only about the Dodgers but my own fantasy team!
(it really is funny, though)

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9579681

"Meanwhile, on another Cubs front, talks surrounding right-hander Greg Maddux appear tepid at best. The Padres remain interested, and a source with knowledge of the talks say the Los Angeles Dodgers are only minimally interested."

I hope by minimally interested they mean "will not give up one of our best prospects for an over-the-hill HOF."

talks surrounding right-hander Greg Maddux appear tepid at best. The Padres remain interested, and a source with knowledge of the talks say the Los Angeles Dodgers are only minimally interested.

Meanwhile, on another Cubs front, talks surrounding right-hander Greg Maddux appear tepid at best. The Padres remain interested, and a source with knowledge of the talks say the Los Angeles Dodgers are only minimally interested.

That's exciting non-news.

Heh heh. I don't want to wear out the joke...

The Hanshin Tigers.

"One interesting note on Greg Maddux: Indications are that Maddux himself was involved in the discussions, with his agent, Scott Boras, doing more looking around than Jim Hendry. Both sides understood the parameters under which a deal could be done. The relationship between Boras and the Cubs is a good one--something that we should remember when free agency kicks in this offseason. "

So it seems if ned wants soriano, he'll have to give up both billingsley and elbert if not another prospect.

That's just insane.

I've got a feeling ned will unload a dead weight veteran player or 2 for a legit prospects and come out and say to the media that we tried to upgrade the team this season but nothing made sense/too much was asked, so we traded this guy and that guy because we felt they didn't have a future in our organization and we in turn boosted our future a little bit.
And i wouldn't be surprised if izturis was 1 of the 2 guys traded.

Go to fox.com

Isn't that the reverse of the Seo/Navarro deal?

Exactly, i think ned will do it.
He's already satisfied the regular/casual fan by so called upgrading this season, now he needs to satisfy the stats fan.

The Dodgers have resisted including prospects in most of their discussions. "They sound like the Braves," one team source told me. "Logan White knows his system so well that people are getting a little scared to deal with them. When's the last time you saw a Braves prospect pan out?"

I asked him if he meant one, teams should be wary of dealing with the Dodgers because they know their prospects so well, if they are willing to trade one of them beware because they might know something you don't know or two, are the Dodger prospects overhyped and not worth as much as you think.

Will said that it was the first answer, Logan White and the Dodgers are really good judges of their talent so if they are willing to trade one of them to you, look first before you leap. In otherwords, it was a compliment to the Dodgers.

Dodgers fan: We have a fantastic farm system, please please please don't screw it up.

Yankees fan: We have no farm system, so just spend whatever it takes to get what we need to win now.

Feel free to answer from a hypothetical, philosophical, theological, or any other perspective.

I agree, my PTIAL (please trade izturis and lofton) campaign is running out of time.

Ned should trade them for a legit prospect.

Also, there is a possilbility that Izzy would pass through waivers too, so a trade in a couple of weeks is certainly possible.

when did you first start coming here?

I just started like 3 months or so ago.

If Soriano isn't gone in 19 mins I'll be furious. I'm sooooooo sick of ESPN saying for weeks that a guy is DEFINITELY getting traded then it doesn't happen.

last year it was Burnett, now Soriano.

Also, if the deal involved a team like the Dodgers who are traveling, they may want to inform the players before releasing it to the press.

But I do think for the most part, if we don't hear about it within the next hour so, nothing probably happened.

168 If I remember correctly from past years, some deals get reported as late as a few hours past the deadline. I think the 1pm deadline is for filing paperwork through the commish's office.

he's had weeks to get something for him, now he's on the verge of getting nothing.

With Rizzo in the fold, those draft picks will probably be pretty good too.

ESPN and other news outlets have been reporting that he is going to be dealt primarily because he is a high profile free agent who is playing for a non-contender and Soriano has made no secret that he wants to explore his free agent value after this season. That is the News side of the story.

The hard thing is that ESPN has also become home for commentators whose job is to give opinions (which are not News) but gives the appearance of fact but all it is a speculation.

which actually isn't good for a player of his caliber....you should be able to get a package of players worth more than the picks.

If reports are true then the O's are idiots. They turned down Ervin Santana and Aybar for Tejada? Really?

Worse, they turned down ROY OSWALT.

If all he can get for Wilkerson and Sledge is a useless season from Soriano, and two draft picks, that's really bad.

He's supposed to deal him. He's gotta realize at this point he's asking for too much. If he doesn't get dealt, then I feel sorry for the Nats fans for not getting anything back for one of the best players in the game.

The hard thing is that ESPN has also become home for commentators whose job is to give opinions (which are not News) but gives the appearance of fact but all it is a speculation.

I'm pretty good at differentiating between fact and opinion. These guys have said over and over and over that things are "done" when they're not. A week or so ago a headline on espn.com on a wednesday was "Bonds to be indicted Thursday". Didn't happen.

There are tons of examples like this. They report things as being "done" over and over and they don't happen. It's irresponsible. I heard Buster Olney at like 2AM on the radio say something like "Soriano will absolutely definitely be traded tomorrow". No "I think" or anything. ESPN has just been jumping the gun on everything the last couple years and it's getting really, really old.

If you hang breathlessly on every rumor, you're feeding the beast. How can you expect broadcasters to dial down the chatter when there is clearly such an appetite for it?

Most readers and viewers don't hold the media accountable for spreading rumors. If anything, they seem to encourage it. I once wrote a piece on DT criticizing how loose the reporting was during Hot Stove season - that piece received more criticism than almost anything I've written.

If you've been taking the rumors seriously, you're part of the problem. If you want reporting you can trust, reporting that doesn't rely on unnamed sources that aren't even in on the conversations, you have to act like it while the bad reporting is going on.

I'd do Izturis and Guzman for Soriano, but I doubt the Nats would. I think the draft picks would be more valuable than those 2 players.

If Ned wants to win the division, he should let the Padres acquire Greg Maddux.

who is our Chacon?

I'm not talking about taking rumors seriously, I'm talking about ESPN reporting stuff as done when it's not.

This isn't just a baseball thing either, they do it with everything. Like I pointed out about the Bonds indictment...last year they said the AJ Burnett deal was "done" about 20 times. Remember when Sheffield signed with the Yanks a couple years ago and ESPN officially reported it with a picture of Sheffield in a Yankees cap? That wasn't even done at the time. It took literally a week after that to get done and they weren't even sure.

I have fun with rumors but I don't take them as more than rumors. What I have a problem with is ESPN reporting this stuff as being done when it's not.

Yep. Now you know for the future. It's not enough for someone to come on the air and say this stuff. They need to provide an on-the-record source.

I used to keep an Excel spreadsheet of the Dodger roster/organization, with payroll data (still do), and I was pleased to find that someone else was interested enough in the Dodgers to keep track of that. I've been hooked ever since.

how do the yankees keep making these trades?

Yep. Now you know for the future. It's not enough for someone to come on the air and say this stuff. They need to provide an on-the-record source.

Agreed. ESPN had just become an outlet that I'd trust because I had no reason not to. So, up until a couple years ago when this stuff started I had no reason not to believe someone who made a report on camera.

Any more last minute deals?

Maddux and cash to the Dodgers, no word on who goes the other way.

SOURCE!!?!?!?

Greg Maddux has been traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers for infielder Cesar Izturis, SI.com has learned.

http://tinyurl.com/q54wa

I think I came over from Baseball Primer (after reading Billy Beane's book) at about the trade deadline of the '04 season. It was a way to escape the anti-depodestians during the "troubles". I didn't post until much later though.

It's too bad Hendrickson didn't get jettisoned in the process.

If there's a "Ned Trade Trend", it's his willingness to drop a few mill in every trade to cover salaries. Disturbing, but in lieu of more prospects, not a bad strategy.

http://tinyurl.com/q9kk2

I honestly think just about everyone here vastly overrates Izturis' worth.

A guy with a good glove who can't hit is a utility player. I'm surprised we actually were able to get Maddux for him.

Mostly I'm happy with this, and also because: no prospect was given up! But I really like Izturis personally and he handled his position switches and the roller coaster this year with grace and diplomacy, and for that he has my respect. He's a good guy and has a superb glove. Never really very confident in his bat. But I wish him the best.

Who cares what we got?
The team is done for this year. Maddux wont make a difference.

However, moving Izzy's contract off the books for 2007 was needed.

If Ned just doesnt do anything else, then good job at the deadline.

Exactly.

We just upgraded over Hendrickson, and ditched the Human Out Machine in the process...and now have three more million to put towards Zito/Schmidt next year.

And we get cash, too!

Well, I don't personally get cash, which would make this deal even better! But you get my draft.

229 That is the question isn't it? Blake DeWitt? ;-) Maybe Betemit will play 2nd and 3rd - he's that good. (Heh.) No, I'm guessing it will be Ramon Martinez.

Pirate fans must be livid right now.

Izzy is the heir apparent to Neifi.
I really like this trade. Izzy was horrible with the bat, and now its like one less problem for Grits to have to face.

Dumping Izzy is like dumping Dave Roberts two years. Addition by subtraction.

226. What would Izturis alone have gotten that'd have been worth more to us than Maddux? Would you have rather seen him packaged with some combo of Guzman/LaRoche/Billingsley/Kemp for someone, because you know that's all Ned heard?

Dios Mio.

Thumbs down on the Lugo one, if true, though I'll await the details and have to think about it a bit longer.

And, Jon, you're right, Maddux should replace Sele. (Or Hendrickson. But Hendrickson in the bullpen scares me more than hendrickson as a starter.)

All the good of this Izzy for Maddux deal has been wiped away by this one!

WTF?

All the good of this Izzy for Maddux deal has been wiped away by this one!

When the D-Rays call, do not pick up!

Dios Mio.*

I smell "super utility" player

Dios Mio.*

I smell "super utility" player

Greg's K rates have declined each of the last 3 seasons. HR rates plateau'd around 30 per season and BAA is up. BB rate has remained low. As a result, it's not surprising his ERA is up around 4.80, and I wouldn't expect much more than that going forward.

Now this one is a surprise. Lugo said he didn't want to be moved off shortstop, but that seems certain to happen in Los Angeles. He can play second in place of Jeff Kent for now and then maybe move to third base once Kent returns. Especially after already getting Wilson Betemit, this is a very heavy price for the Dodgers to pay. Guzman remains an excellent long-term prospect, and Pedroza has a chance to become a regular corner outfielder.

And cue the massive overraction to my statement.

We have now acquired one-fifth of the 2005 Devil Rays. Words fail me.

You think this would be part of a 3-way trade with Boston or Houston so we can get a SP! Otherwise Lugo doesn't make sense with Furcal already at SS.

That being said, love the Maddux deal. Gave up no prospects, plus got money, and invoked the addition by subtraction principle with Izzy's offense, in return for an SP upgrade - that's what it's about.

I like Lugo - he's on my fantasy team - but WHY?

Either that or Neds D-Ray and middle infielder fetish has not yet been satisfied.

Either that or Neds D-Ray and middle infielder fetish has not yet been satisfied.

God, I hope the Lugo trade is false. What the hell is the point of that move?

If Kent is done this year, I just hope he retires.

Lugos in a contract year, so he will be definately playing hard. hes going to be the best FA on the market therefore offering arbritration isnt going to be a big risk.

guzman+ pedroza for Lugo, 2 draft picks and maybe a postseason appearance.

I honestly cant HATE this trade. I dont like it, but I can't hate it because we kept broxton, bills, kemp, martin, ethier, laroche, loney, elbert, and dewitt. Im really sad to see Guzman go, but out of all our top prospects, Guzman had the most flaws/warts on him. And who knows, with Logan White, 2 draft picks are basically two top prospects anyways.

Colorado just dealt Shealy for Affeldt and Bautista, that should help them a little.

Hm, I hadn't thought about that... is that true? Not bad. But I wonder about all this. Wow. My head hurts.

I like Maddux for Izzy though - at least we'll have a pitcher that won't make us cringe with anxiety every time he goes out there.

Lugo is a wife beater.
Furcal is a drunk.

Anyone else want to defend these guys while kicking Bradley off the team?

Oh well.
I dislike Lugo for Guzman/Pedroza, more than liking Izzy for Maddux. Lugo isnt going to make a difference. How many banjo hitting SS does the team need? Lugo's been a banjo, up until this season. Seems like Ned buys everything at its highest value.

The Cubs get another light-hitting, good-fielding middle infielder.

The Devil Rays get another allegedly attitudinal-yet-promising prospect.

The Dodgers get a couple of expensive, aging free-agents-to-be.

On the surface, this is not good. Not good at all. We are mostly dead.

best FA shortstop, excuse me!

Toby is furious! "That son of a bee Flanders was supposed to give them Martin for Lugo, not Guzman!"

Boggs was laughing. "Guess you just didn't put enough ecstasy in his Stinger!"

Hendrickson was face down, so he didn't say anything.

We've spent 6 months here debating whether Colletti and DePo are really that different. I would imagine this subject is now closed.

LOL...you think Lugo is the difference in making the playoffs and not making the playoffs?

Ned's plan for this team becomes less clear to me with each move that he makes. He talked about being a 'buyer,' but it seems he's more of a 'renter."

I'm not really having a huge problem with Ned getting rid of guys that don't have a future with the team. It seems that Guzman's status has been slipping in the eyes of the brain trust.

I can only hope that Will Carroll's blurb about how well Logan White knows his prospects really is true. This is gonna be a painful deal for the Dodgers if Guzman starts playing the way we all think he's capable of.

As to Joel the D, I think it's clear the powers that be (including Logan White) have soured on him.

I'm happy about the Maddux trade; although I enjoyed Izturis a lot, one of my only concerns about getting Maddux was giving up young talent. Getting him (and cash) for Izturis is a solid deal, IMHO.

This Spring, there was talk that Guzman would be the starting left fielder, and now we gave him away for two draft picks. What could he have done so badly in the last four months that he went from untouchable to worthless.

How many wins can Lugo contribute over Ramon Martinez? If we assume Martinez is replacement level, at Lugo's current production level, it's 2.4. When the Dodgers have to play about .620 ball win 85 games, 2.4 wins isn't going to cut it.

The way that Guzman can go from Godlike to worthless in four months is why I have a hard time trusting scouts.

I like that one as well (atleast I'll get to watchi Izzy on the tube. the Lugo trade is very weird. (third team involved?)

Lugo may pontentially be another Tampa Bay malcontent on the team. But we just might get a draft pick for him next year, given his performance this year (.308/.373/.498, 12 HR 18-4 SB-CS), he'll be an improvement. That he's got speed too allows Grady to say he's a number two hitter and drop Lofton to the bench.

I'm still waiting for the DFA of Jose Cruz Jr.

Good Lord, people. Try to dial it down a notch.

No, but he replaces Izzy's bat and thats a big upgrade and the defense is almost the same.

Lugo is a good player have a very good year. We still have a postseason chance, although its slim and the odds are against us. But If we were willing to trade guzman for two draft picks of soriano, we are still trading guzman for two draft picks.

I thought Ned was trying to put a short stop at every position, similar to Depo's plan of putting a Ja(y)son at every postion.

I didn't know that Lugo was a FA -- so we'll get draft picks for him, even better.

Even if Kent is done for the year, as some have conjenctured, this is still the wrong deal - a clear and obvious choice of exchanging the future for a tenuous present.

Somebody tell Ned that we're still 5 games back with 4 teams ahead of us. I wish Washigton had swept us.

I'm curious, I really don't know.

Aside: Props to Ken! Trade deadline comes and goes with only a minor slowdown!

So why trade anyone for a non-difference making rental?

Izzy for Maddux makes sense for 2007.
Guzman/Pedroza for Lugo doesnt make sense for 2007-2010.

I'm happy for Pedroza. He gets a fresh start in an organization that is more than willing to put rate production over tools. Its strange my favorite prospects (Guzman at SS, Pedroza/Ruggiano in the OF) are all now D-Rays.

I am actually not as mad as I thought I would be when I woke up today.

why do you say that?

Lugo is a career .750 OPS hitter, which is only slightly better than Furcal's numbers this year.

Coletti has been accruing a lot of bad will on my part.

1) He does not look at peripherals.

2) He buys high, in other words, he brings in players who are in the midst, or are coming off career years. (Lugo, Hendrickson, Baez.)

3) He is getting owned by the Devil Rays. THE DEVIL RAYS.

Interesting.
Has Lugo ever played CF?
That would be enticing.

I'd rather see Repko start every day over Lofton.

Not to mentioned that he gave The Jerk an extension and hasn't dumped The Adulterer...

How do you know? Guzman/Pedroza could turn out awesome, yes -- and then it'd be a poor trade. Or they could be busts and Logan White could spin the picks we get for Lugo into new hot prospects.

We simply don't know at this point. I wouldn't even say the odds are one way or the other.

Ned once again buys high (maybe he was on grass too). I'm more against the Maddux deal. Lugo is a good player who should net us a few draft picks. Acquiring Maddux is a lateral move and Ned undersold Izzy.

I'm also looking at all the trades the Dodgers have made over the past week as not just who we added, but who we subtracted, and for the most part, I'm good with it.

The Dodgers are making some good moves today. Give them credit while my Padres are trading for crap.

Interesting. Try looking at the defensive numbers. They are actually very similar.

And most of us have little use for a utility infielder who can't hitter water if he jumped out of a boat.

Maddux for Izzy = Ned's best deal.

He struck out.

He's also appeared, albeit very briefly, in LF and RF

The Devil Rays have already won. Navarro is right now, a better player than Mark Hendrickson. So, there's that. Baez and Carter probably were negatives for this team, and have no chance of improving. Tiffany and Jackson have a chance to improve.

Lugo is a slightly better hitter than Furcal. Guzman was a top twenty prospect only last year.

It's hardly hysterics. It's my honest analysis of the trades Coletti has made.

The Dodgers are making some good moves today. Give them credit while my Padres are trading for crap.

Baseball is filled with hot prospects who didn't turn out. It's a fallacy to assume that every single hot prospect we have will be a guaranteed success.

Watch Grady pencil Lugo into the #2 slot and let's see what happens.

that's what I've been asking since April.

I just hope Repko gets some starts.

So, what is a slumping Lugo is worth? I guess to Colletti it was Guzman/Pedroza.

Its just strange how someone can look at a player having a career year, and instead of thinking (we'll this is out of the norm for him), instead they think "aw well he's on such a role he's likely to maintain it".

Its like Colletti's is GM'ing with his heart, instead of his head. He'd go broke working on Wall Street.

If Lugo hits second, where will Lofton go?

I think to echo what was said earlier, we have no idea what people were offering for Izzy. I can't say that he could have done worse but I also can't say that he could have done better.

No matter what, Izzy is a no-hit, all-field shortstop. Perhaps the market for this type of player was garbage.

Er, you weren't talking about Steve Martin's Navin Johnson?

If Kent's and/or Nomar's injuries are worse than previously thought and Lugo's to fill in for one of them, that's a downgrade still. Why would you drop a top prospect for a guy to fill in for a team that's just short of floundering.

If it's debatable whether or not to drop prospects for so-called "difference makers", then sholdn't it be certain that you shouldn't drop prospects on players that MAY help the team merely maintain its current poor pace?

But whatever, any move Colletti makes there is going to be mass hysteria on DT just because this is such an opinionated community.

I think to echo what was said earlier, we have no idea what people were offering for Izzy. I can't say that he could have done worse but I also can't say that he could have done better.

No matter what, Izzy is a no-hit, all-field shortstop. Perhaps the market for this type of player was garbage.

ERA
May 5.94
June 6.25
July 5.21

After the all star break 5.54

On the positive side, Maddux has 3:19 B:K ratio and has only allowed 1 home run in 26 innings since the break.

Those of us who follow the prospects get a little annoyed when one or two are dealt but I am still waiting for any of them that have been dealt since 2000 that have amounted to anything. Which is probably more of an indictment of the system than the players but you get my drift.

Yeah, didn't the Cubs have a pair of those already?

When Lugo hits second, Lofton's on the bench. If Lofton plays, Lugo slides down to the 6 or 7 slot.

I think what Colletti's doing is covering his bases. We know he was trying to move Lofton -- reports were that the Dodgers weren't all that excited about his defense. Lugo's also insurance for Kent's injury problems and Betemit slumping. Even if he's over-estimating Lugo and he's simply having a career year (not unlikely at all), we ditch him after the season and get those 2 all-important picks. If he hits a bad slump again, I doubt he'd be as weak a bat as Izturis was, and we have Martinez to cover for that possibility as well.

Will the D-Rays put JtD back at SS, I wonder? Or is that experiment over forever?

who was behind the Jason Schmidt trade?

Not to be a stickler, but this deal isn't really the end of the world here.

Nate,
The proper term is "caterwauling".

390 Yeah, I have to say, the idea that the Dodgers got so much less than they could have for Izturis seems a little farfetched to me, given the realities of the marketplace and the fact that bats always take precedence over gloves when it comes to trading value. I seriously doubt we could have gotten much more for Izzy, unless we were willing to take a chance on some low A prospects or something, which is not necessarily something we need. Just my two cents.

397 My disliking of this trade has nothing to do with Colletti.

Only if you cherry pick Furcal's 2005 season. Otherwise there is no comparison.

I think it's perfectly fair to analyze the thought process behind such a move, and debate it on those merits. What could Coletti be thinking here?

1) Jeff Kent is out for the year.

1A) If this is true, then the season is over, because Lugo is not a good enough player to make this team a contender. The team needs Kent to be competitive, plain and simple. So just stand pat and let the season play out.

2) Julio Lugo will continue OPSing over .800.

2A) I have some chocolate covered cotton I'd like to sell you. It tastes good!

3) The draft picks we get for Lugo are more valuable than Guzman.

3A) What are the chances either of those two picks achieve a top twenty minor player designation, that Guzman achieved? Remote, I'd say. You can't say, "minor league players flame out all the time!" and then argue that this is a good trade because we get draft picks.

4) Ned Coletti and the Devil Rays GM are really good friends.

4A) Perfectly reasonable.

5A) Tapioca! Yum!

Aybar
Baez
Izturis
Guzman
Pedroza
Perez
Navarro
Seo

for

Maddux
Lugo
Betemit
Dessens
Hendrickson
Hall

Am I missing anyone?

Is Guzman going to walk as much as Burrell? I dont know if he ever will. I haven't really been deprogrammed. Like I said before, Its not like I like the trade with two thumbs up, its just not a terrible deal. I can see why the Dodgers did it and if they have that much faith in Logan White to continually replace the Guzman's of our system with the same quality prospects, then I can see the "upside" of the deal.

the lugo deal-ugh. initially, i thought, lugo would be flipped somewhere else. but hes over 30 years, having a career year and had to give up guzman.

ill leave it at this.... ?

So... what is going on with Jeff Kent?

He'll be the Hendrickson of SStops no?

Someone please explain to me how it is a good trade, because I'm not getting it.

Lugo better hit. Did I mention that already?

Plaschke wanted him because it's spelled like it sounds.

I am thrilled to death JtD went to the DevilRays. I'm his sponser on the Baseball Cube and now he's on my 2nd favorite team. He should fit in very well with Young/ Upton/ Dukes as players with incredible talent but may never reach their potential cause of "makeup" issues. I hope they all end up having near HOF careers and tear the heart out of the Yankees for a few years before the Yankee's buy them.

I am much happier with the Lugo deal. He is not a flimsy slap-hitter. He's posting a 870 OPS right now, and last year had .287 EQA. He's clearly a plus-hitter for either middle-infield position. Considering his age, I'd rather have him than Kent, even if Kent did have some timetable for a return. Ned must be unsure of Kent's eventual return, but even if we let Lugo go, we get 2 top draft picks next year, both of whom should be better than Pedroza. Is it worth Pedroza AND Guzman? Im not sure, but I am sure that Guzman really didnt have a future on the Dodgers, he isn't moving LaRoche, Ethier, Kemp or Drew anywhere, and Loney is more viable candidate to replace Nomar, if things come to that. Ned may have undersold Guzman, but not by much, and its probably more likely that we are over-estimating Guzman's value.

The Dodgers need to go 35-22 from this point on to make the playoffs, so with Lugo, they need to go 32-22.

Is betting the Dodgers can play .592 ball the rest of the way worth Guzman and Pedroza?

2000- .777
2001- .698
2002- .710
2003- .630 (Hou).760 (TB)
2004- .734
2005- .765
2006- .871

But hey, players magically get better at the age of 30 all the time! This isn't a fluke! Julio Lugo really is almost as good as Miguel Tejada! (.900 OPS)

California dreamin...

The rotation is still junk.
The only place where Lugo could improve the lineup (if everyone is healthy), is in CF.

If Lugo was brought in to play 3b, why on earth do you trade Aybar for Betemit?

My gosh...Just two years ago the Dodgers sent 3 b prospects for Steve Finley! Now the team sends one of their top ones for Julio Lugo???

Stop the Insanity.

So, are you're really Susan Powter?

What is more interesting is how you get your keyboard to make the little "2". As in X². (copy, paste)

:)

Our cost:Baez (2 draft picks),Aybar, Izturis, Guzmzn, Pedrosa, $ to Atlanta

If the money cancels out, basically we traded Izturis(none of us wanted to keep him), Aybar(management didn't want him), and Baez(Nobody wanted to keep him), Guzman, and Pedroza for Betemitt, Maddux, and Lugo.

New, if baffling, argument that has great potential: JtD was so blocked by LaRoche, Ethier, et al., that he had to be traded for another shortstop.