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Fear in New York?
2006-08-20 08:52
The New York Mets are a lock for the playoffs, while the Dodgers have a mess of games to worry about before they get in, but that hasn't stopped Joel Sherman of the the New York Post from looking west: The biggest threat to the Mets has the fewest homers in the NL, a 2006 dossier that includes 13 losses in 14 games to begin the second half and a manager best known as an October fool. And, oh yeah, the Dodgers are not just a threat to the Mets in 2006. They are a threat to what the Mets could so recently envision being an era when they would dominate the National League. Los Angeles has the dynamic duo of financial resources and, perhaps, the majors' best young talent base. "The Dodgers are a big-market team with a $100 million-plus payroll and they have better young players than the Mets have," said an NL GM. "Now [on] the Mets' left side of the infield [Jose Reyes and David Wright] are two of the best players in the game. But the Mets don't have depth in pitching and the pitching is old. But they do have the wherewithal to sign pitching every year." In 2006, at the least, the Mets were cruising along under the belief that they were far superior to the rest of the NL competition. But as our NL GM said, "The Dodgers might have a better team than the Mets, right now." Hey, it's an honor just to be noticed. But even if one were to dismiss this as worrying for the sake of worrying, there is still more nervousness coming out of the east. With Pedro Martinez already on the 15-day disabled list with a strained right calf, fellow Mets starting pitcher Tom Glavine has come down with something potentially more serious, according to Adam Rubin of the New York Daily News. Tom Glavine's health and his season are in jeopardy, a potentially crushing blow to the pitcher as well as to the Mets' World Series ambitions, the Daily News has learned. Sources said the southpaw has experienced coldness in a finger on his pitching hand, and that the cause of the alarming condition isn't yet known. The 287-game winner is scheduled for a CT scan tomorrow, while an angiogram is planned for Wednesday. Doctors are unsure whether the problem is related to a blood clot or possibly a "knot" in an artery near his left shoulder. Depending on the diagnosis, Glavine could miss little time or the rest of the season. The "knot" could require invasive surgery, while a clot might be able to be dissolved and limit the time lost. ... Minus Martinez and Glavine, the Mets would be left with a rotation headed by Steve Trachsel, Orlando Hernandez and John Maine. Brian Bannister and Oliver Perez are available at Triple-A Norfolk, while 2005 first-round pick Mike Pelfrey is nursing a strained lat (back) muscle. Fortunately for the Mets, they have enough of a cushion in the National League East to have until October to get their pitching staff back in order, whereas the Dodgers are still trying to ensure their plus-.500 status. * * * Baddest play of the year? It came after Greg Maddux's leadoff double in the second inning Saturday. Bad decision: Having speedy, hot-hitting Rafael Furcal try to bunt the slow boat to China Basin, i.e. Maddux to third base. Bad jump: Maddux was practically still in neutral when the ball was being bunted. Bad bunt: Furcal bunted right to Giants pitcher Brad Hennessey. Bad coverage: Pedro Feliz was playing in, anticipating the bunt, and shortstop Omar Vizquel was trailing Maddux, so Hennessey had no one at third base to throw to. Bad throw: Hennessey then turned and threw the ball wide of first base and into right-field foul territory. Bad block: With Maddux having scored and Furcal streaking toward third, Feliz couldn't block the one-hop throw from second baseman Ray Durham (who got the error). Bad backup: Not really, but it certainly wasn't great. Hennessey got to the ball and threw home, but Furcal scored without incident. Maddux, who added a sacrifice fly when he batted again in the inning, had a batting line of 1 1 1 1 and a 10-run lead before he faced Barry Bonds for the first time in the game. * * * Bonds, his back ailing, is not expected to play today.
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So how will this affect the yankees and red sox?
Sincerely,
ESPN, the Eastern Propaganda Sports Network.
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340 I disagree. Guys like Hoyt Wilhelm, Frank Robinson, and Casey Stengel wouldn't make it. Heck, even some guys who are in the HOF and were primarily Dodgers probably wouldn't make it. I don't think there's a Burleigh Grimes Marching and Chowder Society out there.
Team Halls of Fame like this are strange because the criteria include both actual ballplaying credentials and how beloved you were by the fans. Maury Wills, for example, objectively is probably not even the 50th best Dodger ever, but his popularity with the fans was such that he'd be among the first inductees into a Dodger Hall of Fame. Same goes for Fernando, for that matter.
In approximate order of preference, here are my top 20 candidates for an L.A. Dodgers Hall of Fame (giving some weight to excellence and some to karma). I kept it to L.A. guys because, realistically, I think your average Dodger fan (and your current team owner) really don't care one whit about the Brooklyn days.
Koufax
Valenzuela
Drysdale
Hershiser
Gibson
Piazza
Sutton
Gilliam
Guerrero
Lopes
W. Davis
Wills
Cey
Roseboro
Scioscia
Garvey
T. Davis
Gagne
Perranoski
R. Martinez
Obviously room would also have to be made for Alston and [holds nose] Lasorda. And Vinny should have a plaque five times as big as all the others.
Other guys I'd consider are Nomo, Karros, Baker, Osteen, R Smith, Mondesi, Podres, Sax, Green, Russell, and a persional favorite, Dave Hansen.
I doubt Zack Wheat and Dazzy Vance register with anyone.
You would have to include Broolkyn players to give Jackie Robinson a spot. If he were left out, the PR hit would be enormous.
However, there are 39 games left and unless one of the "Big 3" pitches on 3-days rest at least once, it seems like each of these pitchers will get 8 starts each. This leaves 15 starts for Billingsley & Hendrickson.
I wonder if this was just lip service by Little, trying to inject a bit of an ego boost into his 3 "horses".
Assuming no 3-day-rest starts:
8/20 - Lowe
8/21 - Billingsley
8/22 - HendrickSele
8/23 - Penny
8/24 - OFF
8/25 - Maddux
8/26 - Lowe
8/27 - Billingsley
8/28 - Penny
8/29 - HendrickSele
8/30 - Maddux
8/31 - OFF
9/1 - Lowe
9/2 - Penny
9/3 - Billingsley
9/4 - Maddux
9/5 - HendrickSele
9/6 - Lowe
9/7 - Penny
9/8 - Billingsley
9/9 - Maddux
9/10 - HendrickSele
9/11 - OFF
9/12 - Lowe
9/13 - Penny
9/14 - Maddux
9/15 - Billingsley
9/16 - HendrickSele
9/17 - Lowe
9/18 - Penny
9/19 - Maddux
9/20 - Billingsley
9/21 - HendrickSele
9/22 - Lowe
9/23 - Penny
9/24 - Maddux
9/25 - OFF
9/26 - Billingsley
9/27 - Lowe
9/28 - Penny
9/29 - Maddux
9/30 - HendrickSele
9/31 - Billingsley
And yeah, it's up to the owner, but I think the old-era players like Wheat, Vance, and Grimes would get recognized. I've been to the Dodger Dugout Club (only once), and I remember seeing a big picture of Zach Wheat hanging on the wall. It was right next to the picture of Babe Ruth during his one season in a Dodger uniform.
All the guys on that list are great, and I would include most of the ones on your follow-up list too. Reggie Smith, Shawn Green, and Raul Mondesi might be reaches. How about Larry Sherry? Steve Yeager? Tommy John? Manny Mota? Pedro Guerrero?
My personal fave would be Kenny Landreaux.
Sherry and Yeager had careers that weren't that great, but I guess winning World Series MVP makes up for that.
Brett Butler might be another fringe candidate. Paul Lo Duca? Mike Marshall? (Both versions, even.) Charlie Hough? Bob Welch? {gasp} Rick Monday???
In quality of pitching or was Larry Sherry naive enough to serve as a replacement player and then also act hurt and surprised when he got traded?
An outstanding rookie season followed by a sophomore campaign that was much worse, but still good. Followed by by much mediocrity and subsequent exile to crappy teams.
"The 51s loaded the bases with one out in the second, but Bohn threw Andy LaRoche out at the plate to complete a double play on Eric Langill's fly ball to center.
LaRoche left the game in the seventh with an injured neck and shoulder. He was replaced by James Loney."
I don't know if this was mentioned either last night about Maddux, but his 32 consecutive batters retired was not a Dodgers record.
As you might expect, Sandy Koufax has that record. He retired the last 6 batters against Houston on 9/5/1965, then 27 in a row on 9/9/65 against Chicago and then the first batter on 9/14/65 at Chicago before Glenn Beckert doubled. 35 straight.
Or at least I think that's the record. I didn't check relievers.
The major league record is 41.
Very interesting...
The last 26 in Chicago on 8/31/2005 and then the first 11 Giants on 9/5/2005 when JT Snow singled.
Forgot that Lowe had two walks in the Chicago game.
Nate, should we start the countdown to Kyle Carter being a first round pick in 2011 or 2012 barring injury? I mean, I've seen him reach 80 MPH already, and he's only what, 12?
I'm deeply sorry.
Anybody want to guess who the pitcher (who was not a Dodger) who retired 41 straight batters?
R Martinez retired 25 in a row in 1995.
That's about the best I can come up with.
LaRoche was thrown out at the plate last night and continued to play. He took a very wild swing at a pitch before he was replaced in mid at bat by Loney. The way he was reacting I figured he had hurt his back on the swing. I watched him walking off the field to the clubhouse and he seemed to be moving ok.
Stan from Tacoma
Okay, I'll just stick with taking whatever you say at face value.
I'm guessing we're cheaters.
August 23 and 29, 1972 for the Giants. The bookends were a walk to Bob Moose of the Pirates and double to Bernie Carbo of the Cardinals.
21 in one game and 20 in the next.
Which, interestingly enough, is where the phrase "Barr none" comes from
Montague's 33 in a row were all in relief, including a stint where he threw 6 2/3 perfect innings. That was back when relievers were real men!
So no Rickey Henderson, even though I saw him hit a leadoff homer in Dodger Stadium.
There were a ton of Dodgers on the short list of pitchers they listed - including, IIRC, Hershiser, John, Sutton and Nomo - amoung several I think I am leaving out.
There were almost no closers, but for some reason I thnk Wetteland might have been one of the few that did it.
Mets
Cubs
D-Bax
It was just too amazing not to share with the rest of the class.
Today is not one of those days.
Osteen's W-L record suffers from playing for the 1967-68 teams.
Stan from Tacoma
Jim Brower?
Kelly Downs?
Mike LaCoss?
Pat Rapp?
Then there are the Orioles. If they disappeared, no one would miss them.
Now I see why Wetteland's stuck out - it happened over the span of two seasons.
Even during his no-hitters Nomo walked enough guys that he couldn't retire that many batters in a row.
Stan from Tacoma
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And morbid poets with rabies.
I would think Harvey Haddix got close to record for consecutive batters faced without letting anyone get on base.
Stan from Tacoma
Stan from Tacoma
"The Reds have been kind of snakebit with the relievers they picked up."
There are so many punchlines after that...
I expect the hard hitting questions like... "is winning better than losing?" and "Do you enjoy catching Pedro Martinez?"
(For those who don't know, the flight originates in Honolulu.)
Say straight up for Dunn?
They pretty much gave Kearns away; maybe they're still in the mood...
Surely people have pet snakes, no?
20.2 IP, 1.31 ERA
Kazmir?
No, Seo. Go figure.
Wow. Guess it was taped.
When you have a little free time, look up "brown tree snake Guam" at Google; you'll be horrified.
Chickens- plenty.
Griddle'd! Thanks!
A bit of a recomment from another thread, but maybe good for a few laughs...
RE recent story about Kevin Brown pulling a gun on his neighbor (who supposedly threw grass clippings into his yard)....
KB reportedly said he kept the gun to shoot snakes.
Why do I have visions of Dick Cheney inviting Kevin Brown to go snake hunting?
From the replay you couldn't tell if it landed in the water or bounced in, but it was wet by the time it stopped.
I'm hoping that within about an hour, there will be no reason to watch either and I can actually leave the house.
Not that I'd complain about that.
For me, picture in picture is a good way to ensure that you make it impossible to watch either program.
Not to worry.
86
Any thought that begins with "my bet is on Tiger" is probably a wise one.
Hey, I can believe it. I've shot a snake before.
Actually, come to think of it, that rattlesnake is the only living thing I've ever shot. I was 12 years old camping out in the desert, and at the time it seemed a choice between him or me.
That snake was more afraid of you than you were of it!
OK, maybe it wasn't.
The movie actually wasn't that bad. Much more entertaining than I thought it was gonna be. I saw it with a good crowd, which really makes all the difference.
Krukow and Kuiper are doing the TV broadcast I'm watching right now.
One of the counselors in the archery area had a small snake in the grass, so he shot it point blank with an arrow.
at 12 yrs old i would have ran to mommy.
The Reds beat Pittsburgh and keep the checkered jersey for another day.
Watching this, I miss Steve Lyons. And that's saying something.
I wonder if Krukow and Miller get discounts at Gordon Biersch?
I'm tempted, and since the only movies I've seen in a theater in the past 20 years are the Potter ones and LoTR, that's sayin' somethin'.
Leitner just oozes hatred for the Dodgers from pore. He also oozes phoniness. Why the people of San Diego put up with him is amazing.
I'm thinking Sutton.
It was Don Drysdale.
Krukow spent much of yesterday's game going on and on about how Russell Martin is god's gift to catching, will eventually have a shelf full of Gold Gloves, etc.
What makes it not nearly so perilous is that Hendrickson will be facing the San Diego offense and Peavy will be facing the Dodger offense.
he hadn't hit a dinger for a long time.
FURCAL
Blow it open again boys.
I'm a Weir fan. Saw him win the Nissan Open at Riviera once. Good guy.
only 23 homers to go for a 30-30 year
No
There would be absolutely no reason to believe so. Doesn't mean it won't happen but you certainly wouldn't want to bet your kids college tuition.
According to Retrosheet, Sutton had more wins against the SF Giants than Drysdale.
Sutton was 30-25 against the SF Giants.
Drysdale had 27 wins against SF I believe.
Unless they messed up their stats for "NY National League".
No, Tiger's not coming back to him.
Back on topic, wasn't that a bonehead play by Furcal.
I would think Furcal would admit that he made a bonehead play.
It happens.
Carlos Quentin is benched for the 4th straight game. LOL...
Yeah, I think Tiger pretty much has this locked up too.
Mojo back on our side.
D-Lowe going strong
Dysdale went 27-28 against the SF Giants. His other decisions came in his two years in Brooklyn.
And if you include those it's not 30-31 either.
Just realized Chris Young only pitched 1 inning today. Bad news for SD?
good news for us Dodger fans.
Welcome back.
Ethier's BA is actually ever so slightly better w/out runners on base as compared to runners on base.
complete game today?
For a split second I was thinking Mota and Piazza were going to be teammates.
Phil Niekro beat the Giants 30 times also.
I hope that 1st/3rd - 1 out
and
1st/3rd - 0 out
no scores don't haunt us.
Bill Plaschke has just applied for a Mets press pass for the rest of 2006.
But they've been snakebit with their new relievers...
Thank you Nomar.
I actually attended his 1 hit gem last season.
I'd keep him in as well, if he gets in trouble pull 'em of.
I live in Bangkok, and don't get a chance to see the games... it just so happens today that i'm up @ 3am to catch this game on MLB radio.
It's fun to get the description of what's happening visually, and you dudes crack me up.
I sure do miss the Dodgers. i've been a fan since the fernando days, and saw live the gibson homer off eckersley.
thanks jon, for hosting this blue community.
(Falls over in shock)
In other news, Hilo is up 5-0 in the 3rd against Mexico in the Cal Ripken 13-14 year-old World Championship game. A three-run HR and a two-run HR by the same kid.
Sure. Sure.
"I could be a seagull... They eat the same kind of food I do!"
Don't remind me, please.
usually, the only thing i get on cable here is malaysian field hockey and soccer.. bleh.
thank dog for the internet
i'm glad i didn't see that game.
Thank goodness Danys Baez is nowhere around.
Very timely K for Saito
Ask us again after the Bonds AB.
Still tied in the top of the 8th.
Alfonzo .222 with them loaded
It includes guys like Dick Schofield of the Angels. And Ron Lolich.
i'll asnwer that when the Dodgers win/or loose
I enjoy it as well.
Whew.
game score: 71
Absolutely! He better be a part of our plans in 2007.
If he's added a third, effective strikeout pitch, cool.
I think that could be A Martinez.
he is going to be 37 next year. it would be foolish to depend on him to anchor the bullpen next year since relief pitchers are so unpredictable; especially 37 yr old relief pitchers.
anyways, the demotion hasn't ruined loney's confidence, 2-3 with 2 long doubles and the out was a flyout to the left field wall today in the Vegas game. Keep it up J-lo, you'll be playing alot up in the show next year.
.331/.403/.519, 14 BB, 24 K, 44 H, 9 2B, 5 3B, 2 HR, 10 SB, 2 CS, 21 R, 29 RBI
hes hitting 332/391/420 in 181ABs. I think he might be a top 15 prospect for me especially if he can play a legit CF.
Only thing that's a minor worry would be the low # of HRs even while playing in a hitter's park(/league?), but his SLG doesn't seem to be suffering nevertheless...
If the Padres lose, they fall behind Philadelphia in the wild card race.
I'm kidding, of course, but Billy Beane might just take that seriously.
He's got an RBI single and a stolen base in the 8th. Just scored on a Riggs single
I was just thinking the same thing.
But what was even more surprising was last night's game. 21 runs, 25 hits, 3 errors, and 8 pitchers, and it still took only 2:30. 129 pitches for the Dodgers, 141 for the Giants. And the Dodgers scored those 14 runs without any time-saving HRs.
Now, that was old-school.
Laroche bunted into a 5-3 double play.
Saito is technically a rookie so he doesn't get to dictate his salary for another 2 years after this one.
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-dodgers&ft=1&ctx=0&cacheTag=x48-53&ld=&gfc=1&msg=67740.1
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-dodgers&ft=1&ctx=0&cacheTag=x48-53&ld=&gfc=1&msg=67740.1
Also, is it "an utility player" or "a utility player?" I can't convince myself that "an utility player" sounds correct.
And I understand that .072 Iso patience isn't bad, but it's about the same as the .075 he had at Jacksonville before his callup (.327/.402/.528 in 199 AB), and before he ostensibly began working on his SO rate and pitch recognition. Not that it's not encouraging to hear that Kemp (He Who Shall Surpass Chuck Norris, and yea, even Cole Hamels) is continuing to hit well in the minors. :)
Just like saying "an hour," or "we can find a use for him."
for the first 3 years of a player's mlb career, his salary is at the discretion of the big league team he is playing for.
Just back home from the game, and while it was disappointing to see Lowe's marvelous pitching get spoiled by the lack of a defensive replacement (anyone say Julio Lugo in for the stiff Jeff Kent?), it was nothing short of awesome to feel the energy of the PhoneCo Park crowd peak and fade, peak and fade, peak and dissolve while me and my friend SCREAMED a joyous victory with cathartic emotion.
That ROCKED.
Awesome! I love it!
C'mon folks, let's do like Saito did for Kent and make thinkingblue's error fade away!
? Screen size is fine for me.
For me, that long URL you posted screwed up the frame. Might be a font-size choice, or browser.
Anyway, it's of extremely little importance.
I find it incredibly hard to believe where the Dodgers now find themselves: A near consensus class of the NL. There must be a mistake somewhere. This wasn't supposed to happen.
Hershiser and Thorne are doing LLWS on ESPN.
310 I had the same problem, so you're not a moron. Thinkingblue, if you're posting a long url, tinyurl.com can be helpful, as it shortens the url.
Let me ask the few still assembled: how many other athletes can you think of who came to the top level of competition so ridiculously over-hyped and then proceeded over the course of their careers to completely match the hype, if not exceed it?
There are plenty of guys who are better than anyone expected them to be, but that's not what I mean. I mean a guy who met or exceeded expectations that were outrageously high.
It probably would have to be an ESPN-era phenomenon because they brought hype to new levels. So who else besides Tiger?
Michael Jordan did it, I think. LeBron James has a chance, but we'll have to see if his body breaks down once he hits his 30s. I can't think of any baseball players off hand who managed to exceed expectations of superstardom. Peyton Manning has been awfully good, but hasn't won it all, and any football player is way too dependent on his teammates to really judge fairly.
Between Tiger and Jon Weisman, I've been forced to become less fundamentalist in my GoBears theology. It's disconcerting.
AL CY YOUNG: Halladay
AL ROY: Liriano, Papelbon, Weaver, or Verlander. What a tough call this one is.
NL MVP: Soriano or Beltran
NL CY YOUNG: Webb? Penny? Carpenter? Not a great race here.
NL ROY: 3.5!!!