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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Green Is Grassier on the Other Side
2006-10-18 20:33
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Before Game 6 of the National League Championship Series began tonight, Jacob Luft of SI.com pointed out what a poor defensive series ex-Dodger Shawn Green was having.

It's been a tough series for Shawn Green. He hasn't done much at the plate, producing only one extra-base hit and one RBI in five games. Last night, he failed to come through with a clutch hit with runners on second and third base in a 4-2 game in the eighth inning. In the field, he's been a horror story. In fact, his range in right field has proved so limiting that the only prediction I feel comfortable making about the rest of this topsy-turvy NLCS is that Green will play at least one more ball into a triple. Why not? He's done it in four consecutive games now.

I'm not posting to this to take a cheap shot at Green - it's only to point out to longtime readers that the deterioration of skills that has been evident since the beginning of the 2003 season has continued unabated.

As it happens, Green went 2 for 3 and got hit by a pitch in the Mets' victory tonight. And there were no extra-base hits against them.

* * *

If anyone was a fan of In the News on Saturday mornings growing up, I have a post about the passing of Christopher Glenn over at Screen Jam.

Comments
2006-10-18 20:51:44
1.   Xeifrank
ex-Dodgers went 3 for 10 with three RBIs for the Mets tonight.
vr, Xei
2006-10-18 21:22:39
2.   Uncle Miltie
TGFD (Thank God For Drew)

Drew is a very good defensive player and after watching Green patrol around the outfield for a few years, Drew looks like Willie Mays.

2006-10-18 21:43:26
3.   LAT
Oh, whether to respond or to let it go. . .
2006-10-18 21:48:34
4.   thinkingblue
saw this at 6-4-2:

Q: Angelswin - Is Brandon Wood going to be working on his plate discipline this winter and next year? I noticed that his walks were up, but still a lot of strikeouts...

A: Eddie Bane - Personally I do not feel Brandon Wood has much of anything to work on in the off season. This young man has as good of makeup as anyone in the game and he has big time power. I do not worry about all these plate discipline issues that a lot of people seem to be hung up on. One thing society does is they like to tear people down after they built him up. Brandon had a great year in my mind in 2A and is right on track as far as helping our major league team. I think too much is made of a "general" hitting philosophy. I trust any and all of our hitters in the hands and minds of Ty Van Burkleo and then Mickey Hatcher once they get to the Big Leagues. Nobody works harder or has a better feel for hitters than those 2. Each hitter has to develop his own style and Wood and the others are just realizing that at this point. Besides I was a pitcher at the big league level and could not get many guys out so I thought everybody had a great hitting philosophy.

Someone tell me, how is this guy a scouting director?

2006-10-18 21:52:26
5.   trainwreck
lol dang society and its love for tearing down baseball prospects.
2006-10-18 21:58:38
6.   LAT
Oh, what the hell.

First, let me acknowledge my well known lack of objectivity on this subject. Let me also acknowledge that nobody could reasonably posit that Green's defensive abilities have not declined with age and injury. That being said, Luft's article is biased and provides no meaningful insight or purpose. The standard is not whether Green is Tori Hunter or Jim Edmunds out there. We all know he is not and no one is suggesting he is, except Luft so he can prove his point. (We call this a "strawman") The issue is whether he is a liability out there. Luft's first example immediately exposes his lack of objectivity.

"Game 2: Scott Spiezio hits a fly ball thatrs to be headed over the fence. In a rare moment of grace, Green times his jump perfectly and looks like he is about to rob Spiezio of a go-ahead three-run home run. Alas, the baseball caromed off of Green's glove and rolled back into play, allowing Spiezio to reach third base and the tying runs to score in the seventh. The play proved to be the turning point of St. Louis' 9-6 victory.Game 2: Scott Spiezio hits a fly ball that appears to be headed over the fence. In a rare moment of grace, Green times his jump perfectly and looks like he is about to rob Spiezio of a go-ahead three-run home run. Alas, the baseball caromed off of Green's glove and rolled back into play, allowing Spiezio to reach third base and the tying runs to score in the seventh. The play proved to be the turning point of St. Louis' 9-6 victory."

Luft implicitly acknowledges this an extremely difficult play and then condemns Green for not making it, implying that most other players would have made it. In point of fact, very few players would have made that play and those that could have would only have made it once or twice out of ten tries. The ridiculous part of Luft argument is that he them proceeds to criticizes Green for saving a run by turning a HR into a triple.

Next Luft is critical of Green for diving for a ball in game 3 that bounces off his chest and leads to a 2-0 Cardinal lead in a game which the Cards went on to win 5-0. Was Green too slow? Was he too deep? Who knows. I will concede younger faster feet may have made the play-maybe not. Having the ball bounce off his chest is just bad luck. Maybe he exercised bad judgment diving for the ball. In any event, it didn't lead to 5 runs, it lead to 2 and in the end it made no diffence becasue the Mets were shutout.

For Game 5 Luft offers the following: "In the bottom of the fifth with the score tied 2-2, Preston Wilson hits a line drive to the right-center field gap. It goes over and to the left of Green and ends up as an RBI double for Wilson. This is a tough one to get on Green's case about, because it would have taken quicker set of feet (Lastings Milledge?) to catch. Still, it was a play that could have been made if not for Green's stunning lack of range. Later in Game 5, Aaron Miles hit a ball down the right-field line that took Green the better part of a fortnight to get back into the infield, extending his streak of consecutive games with a triple allowed."

Nonetheless he then gets on Green's case. I watched this play. It didn't go over Green-it split the gap between RF and CF. Neither Green nor Beltran were able to get to it because it was ripped. Luft acknowledges this was a very difficult to play that most would not make and then rips Green for not making it. He implies Milladge might have made the play but there is no evidence of that. It is sheer speculation on the part of Luft.

Finally, Luft ends his article citing a series of defensive metrics but states "I have yet to find an advanced defensive metric that I completely trust. . ." Meanwhile he does not cite to a single error committed by Green and most of all he completely fails to acknowledge the most obvious fact: Sometimes a well hit ball is indeed an extra-base hit.

Luft concludes that the Mets should put Milladge in RF full time and "eat his [Green] contract." I assume that means DFA him. First, Milladge hit .241. Second, I am sure there is nothing more the Mets would have liked than to save millions of dollars and play their rookie darling but he is not ready. If he were, they would have done it. If he were, they would not have sent him down. If he were, he'd be on the playoff roster and if he were ready, the Mets would not have picked up Shawn Green.

As someone who follows Green on a daily basis, I recognize and am disappointed that he is a shadow of his former self . I also understand how a case can be made against him. Indeed, many here have made articulate well reasoned observations regarding his decline. But Luft's analysis is so wanting and so shallow it exposes his bias and lack of creditability.

2006-10-18 22:24:58
7.   xaphor
6. Your daughter writes very well. You must be proud. :)
2006-10-18 22:30:35
8.   PlayTwo
When I read Christopher's Glenn's name I hear it in his voice.
2006-10-18 22:33:51
9.   trainwreck
I do not think I have ever agreed with Sarah Morris.
2006-10-18 22:35:34
10.   trainwreck
She wants us to re-sign Maddux, Lofton, and Garciaparra.
2006-10-18 22:39:20
11.   LAT
I always felt like Christophr Glenn was really trying to teach me something and really wanted me to learn it. In the end, what may have seemed like a small job left more of a mark on an entire generation than anchoring the national news.
2006-10-18 22:39:49
12.   D4P
That's Sarah D. Morris, to you.

Dear Mr. Colletti, I want to thank you for taking the Dodgers' general manager position and doing a great job. After last year's debacle, I thought it would be many years before the Dodgers would be competitive again. However, you executed a plan, and it worked

First of all, what was Ned's "plan" (other than to acquire as many Devil Rays as possible) and in what manner did it "work" (other than to win 88 games)?

2006-10-18 22:40:47
13.   LAT
7. Yes, but she needs to work on the typos.
2006-10-18 22:47:31
14.   LAT
I wonder what a field level ticket to tomorrow's game is going for. Must be steep. I really hope the Mets win. Besides Green, I am a big Delgado and Wright fan. Also because let's face it, the Mets getting to the WS only makes the Yankee's failure that much worse.

One other very important reason. I really don't want LaRussa to win.

2006-10-18 22:48:08
15.   trainwreck
Many years before Dodgers were competitive again haha not like we were going to end up like the Raiders... sigh.
2006-10-18 22:56:03
16.   LAT
I loved this headline from Yahoo sports: "Piniella on Cubs: 'Urgency is important"

Hey Lou your team finished with the worst record in the NL. In fact only the Royals and DRays had worse records. Nice to see you don't plaan on waiting a few years before doing something. That $10M is already paying huge dividands for the Cubs.

Also, this just in:

Crime is bad;
Pollution is not healthy; and
Poverty is harmful.

2006-10-18 22:59:29
17.   D4P
16
Pollution is not healthy

I saw commercials earlier this year from an oil company touting the benefits of carbon dioxide emissions...

2006-10-18 23:05:12
18.   LAT
17. Carbon dioxide emissions have alot of benefits, especially if you are trying to commit suicide.
2006-10-18 23:06:14
19.   D4P
Carbon dioxide emissions have alot of benefits, especially if you are trying to commit suicide

Ditto for guns!

2006-10-18 23:10:15
20.   natepurcell
So Bob Saget cancelled his stand up show at the UofA for this weekend. I cried for about 10 minutes. Then I went online to find out why it was cancelled and I came across the Improv in Phoenix that will be hosting his stand up the following weekend.

I am still rejoicing.

2006-10-18 23:12:00
21.   LAT
19. You'll get no argument from me. The world would be a better place if no one had them or needed them. (I'm just not a Michael Moore fan.)
2006-10-18 23:19:00
22.   Andrew Shimmin
20- He has a new game show, so, you can keep getting your Saget fix, even if he cancels the new one, too. Though, driving ninety miles to see Bob Saget is mighty edgy, my friend.
2006-10-18 23:24:59
23.   D4P
Which is the bigger compliment:

1. Being called "edgy" by Shimmin
2. Being called "scrappy" by Repko

2006-10-18 23:27:07
24.   LAT
20 & 22.

Will Jesse and Joey be there too?

Bob Saget showed up as the emcee at my kids school auction last year which was weird cause he didn't have a kid at the school.

2006-10-19 00:09:36
25.   natepurcell
i cant wait until farce of the penguins comes out. it will be another saget masterpiece.
2006-10-19 02:02:49
26.   xaphor
Carbon dioxide emissions have alot of benefits, especially if you are trying to commit suicide.

It's actually the Carbon Monoxide that gets to you first. Wouldn't want anyone committing suicide under false pretenses now. :)

2006-10-19 06:51:45
27.   Terry A
24 - "Bob Saget showed up as the emcee at my kids school auction last year..."

Uninvited? Wow. He's desperate for work. An appearance on "Dancing with the Stars" can't be far behind.

2006-10-19 07:18:51
28.   50 years a Dodger Fan
Not to defend Sarah, but she is just sucking up to Colletti and the Dodgers because they pay her (I assume). You see a lot of professional writers do that to get or keep a job.
2006-10-19 07:38:06
29.   capdodger
26 An overconcentration of carbon dioxide will kill you, too, but only because it's not oxygen. Just ask the Apollo 13 astronauts...
2006-10-19 09:12:59
30.   Bumsrap
Hey 28, sucking up to the Dodgers by recommending the resigning of Garciapara, Lofton, etc. is like someone recommending to Ford to invest more in the Edsel and bring it back for one more year.

I don't think she was sucking up. Mr. Colletti, being a smart, handsome, stud, I am sure realizes this.

2006-10-19 09:32:59
31.   Sushirabbit
CO2 does all sorts of good things. And higher concentrations do things like stimulate photosynthesis in various plants. There's some intersting studies about C02 from volcanic sites and different persistent vegitation around them, sort of like different plants that show up in rainforests.

I know that's not your point, but it is true that there are specific "positive" things about elevated CO2 levels.

2006-10-19 10:02:57
32.   Shovav
Listened to the game on WFAN last night. The announcers were praising Green for his offense in the post season, while in the nicest way saying he is not having a good series defensively. But the guys in the booth were definitely on the supportive side of how he was helping the team.
2006-10-19 10:15:48
33.   xaphor
29. Oh, no doubt. But Dioxide kills you essentially by asphyxiation while Monoxide is especially nasty in that it displaces and blocks Oxygen in the bloodstream. The limit of tolerable exposure to CO2 is something in the mid thousands ppm (parts per million), while CO is deadly at around 50 ppm.
2006-10-19 10:24:48
34.   Humma Kavula
18 et al:

Suicide Thoughts: Jon Weisman's readers' outlet for not dealing.

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