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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
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Gagne's Chances for Remaining a Dodger Increase
2006-10-28 08:28
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

As this article about Barry Bonds by Barry M. Bloom of MLB.com indicates, there has been an important change in the new agreement between baseball owners and the players' union.

Under the new rules of the Basic Agreement, the Giants have until Dec. 1 to offer Bonds arbitration and he must accept or reject the offer by Dec. 7. Unlike the old rules, the Giants can continue to negotiate with Bonds up to and into the regular season even if they decline to offer Bonds arbitration.

I have written often in the past about how the previous arbitration deadlines made it harder for teams to retain their own players. This new rule changes that. Most notably, unless I'm missing something, the Dodgers will now have more time to learn about Eric Gagne's physical condition before making a yea-or-nay decision on a contract offer.

Ken Davidoff of Newsday has a nice rundown of the new agreement. Here's the section on the draft and free-agent compensation:

Teams that fail to sign a first- or second-round draft pick will get the same pick in the next draft as compensation. So if the Royals have next year's first pick and can't sign him, they'll get pick "1A" in 2008, which means, "the first pick after one."

The signing deadline for draft selections is now Aug. 15, except for college seniors.

The pool of players to generate draft-pick compensation gets shortened considerably. Starting next year, a Type A free agent will be in the top 20 percent at his position, rather than the top 30 percent, and a Type B player will be in the 21st through 40th percentile, rather than 31-50.

The compensation for a Type B player is now a sandwich pick, meaning the team that signs him no longer gives up a draft pick.

* * *

The Dodgers hired Stan "I'M NOT RELATED TO VICTOR" Conte on Friday as director of medical services and head athletic trainer. Two quick points:

1) Steve Henson of the Times writes that Conte "wanted Barry Bonds' personal trainers banned from the clubhouse, but team executives refused to do it. Among Bonds' trainers was Greg Anderson, who in 2003 was indicted on charges he distributed steroids to players as part of the BALCO investigation."

Was Colletti one of the "team executives?" No idea.

2) There's no doubt the Dodgers have had trouble keeping their players on the field in recent years. I don't know if Conte is the solution, but it'll be interesting to see if things improve. Henson adds that "Giants players spent fewer days on the disabled list than any team except the Chicago White Sox from 1997 to 2004, but the number of injuries mounted the last two years, primarily because the Giants signed numerous players well into their 30s."

Comments (172)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-10-28 09:38:14
1.   Louis in SF
As a Dodger fan living up in SF, throughout the years of the complaints about Barry's personal posse, the feeling was that it was approved by Saban and Larry Baer with the blessing of McGowan. Ned was always seen has being a supporter of Jeff Kent and the underlying tone was he did not favor Barry's antics
2006-10-28 09:38:54
2.   ToyCannon
I think the signing of Conte could be huge for the Dodgers. When you think of how old the Giant teams have been and how few injuries they have had you have to be encouraged. According to the Daily news article he has a program that encompasses all players including minor leaguers. I have been unhappy for years regarding the Dodger medical staff and this is an area that should have been upgraded and now it looks like it will be.

The whole CBA makes so much more sense now for everyone concerned. Those artificial deadlines are now gone and some work can actually be done at the winter meeting.

2006-10-28 09:40:25
3.   StolenMonkey86
I like the idea of improving the medical staff.

Now, how about a third base coach?

2006-10-28 10:11:30
4.   Greg Brock
Who's Eric Gagne?
2006-10-28 10:16:29
5.   LAT
I recognize this is pure speculation but I believe Conte's departure signals the Giants intention to bring back Bonds. Conte's resignation for no good reason coupled with the Giants lack of effort to retain him suggests to me that Conte did Bonds and the Giants no favors before the Grand Jury. That is the only plausible explanation for Conte's resignation. If you look back at both sides comments at the time of the resignation they are so vague as to be transparent. (BTW, I hope none of us are naive enough to think Barry and the Giants don't have the Grand Jury transcripts which are supposed to be as privileged and protected as anything in our Country's legal process--but that is a thread for another day.)

As for the Dodgers I stated this earlier, I feel badly for Stan Johnson, however; while its difficult to say whether he was responsible for the rash of Dodger injuries the last few years, much of the blame for the re-injuries lie at his doorstep. And let's face, the re-injuries have been more maddening than the original injuries. I welcome Conte. If he can keep Barry, Finley, Winn and Alou on the field, imagine what he can do with a staff that does not qualify for a discount when it goes to the movies

2006-10-28 10:27:55
6.   Robert Daeley
"a staff that does not qualify for a discount when it goes to the movies"

Although a number of our players in 2006 might have qualified for a student discount. ;)

2006-10-28 10:30:55
7.   LAT
As for Gagne, I know this is heresy, but I don't really care if we keep him. I don't believe he will ever be the dominate closer he was. I base this partly on the belief that he was juicing and partly on the belief that he has become Nomar/Drew injury prone. On the other hand, I have a theory that some users suffer from a steroid hangover (which include injuries)and then become themselves again. See Giambi. See Bonds late '06. (I expect Bonds to hit 35-45 HRs in '07)

(Sorry Jon, I know you hate when we speculate about steroid use but I really believe Gagne was a user).

2006-10-28 10:33:01
8.   LAT
6. Good point. Not sure some of our staff could get into an "R" rated movie without their ID. :-)
2006-10-28 10:49:11
9.   ToyCannon
A quick bite from the Neyer article today on Eckstein.
"David Eckstein? One guy, and two teams. He is, in fact, the first player ever to play shortstop and bat leadoff for two different World Series-winning franchises. In 2002, he batted .310 and scored six runs to help his Angels beat the Giants in a dramatic seven-game Series. And this time around, he batted .364 and scored five runs to earn MVP honors (and that shiny sports car)."
2006-10-28 10:55:43
10.   Greg Brock
http://tinyurl.com/ykjvvq
2006-10-28 10:57:58
11.   PlayTwo
5: It might be that the Giants have decided to take Bonds' money and invest in free agent pitching. We'll see. Gagne has not said "it's not about the money" so it might not be.
2006-10-28 11:03:16
12.   KG16
Bringing Gagne back creates some interesting issues in the bullpen - like having two or three legit closers (an issue that I wouldn't mind having) in Gagne, Saito, and Broxton. It also allows Little to adopt the philosophy that seems to be popular around here in using the best available pitcher in relief spots.

If the Bums bring Gagne back, does that mean that he or Broxton can move to the rotation?

2006-10-28 12:18:33
13.   twerp
11 Gagne has said money's not #1.

He's also said Boras is his agent; he's not Boras' player.

Colletti has said that as a person Gagne is "as good as it gets." If so, maybe Gagne will feel an obgligation to the team that paid him megabucks the last couple years while he has been unable to play.

Link to story RE Boras, which when you click on you get told is archived, and you have to pay for it. And I ain't gonna. So there.

www.dailynews.com/dodgers/ci_4223201

Maybe someone has a backdoor way to the story.

2006-10-28 12:21:43
14.   D4P
If money weren't #1 for Gagne, and if he wanted an agent that would allow him to give hometown discounts and to care about things like "obligations to the team that paid him megabucks the last couple years while he has been unable to play," I don't think he would have Boras for an agent in the first place.
2006-10-28 12:48:09
15.   twerp
I have this much of the unlinkable article==

LA Daily News (8/23_?_) -Headline: "Gagne might take less to stay," said he will maintain full control of his upcoming free-agent negotiations. "(Boras) is my agent," Gagne said. "I'm not his player." ...

As they might say on TV news, "how this all plays out remains to be seen, D4P.."

2006-10-28 12:52:23
16.   D4P
In the past, when a Boras player has made some kind of "hometown discount" comment, I've gotten the impression that Boras and his thugs have a little talk with said player, as it's usually not long before said player retracts said comment and starts singing a different tune
2006-10-28 12:57:55
17.   ToyCannon
15
He later backtracked on some of those statements. I agree with D4P if Gagne wasn't only interested in money he wouldn't have Boras as his agent. Boras is the best agent in the world in getting his clients the greatest possible contract if money is the only issue. I don't think he does as good a job in putting his clients in the best possible position to succeed and earn that money for his customers. I would have a real problem with Ned if he gives Gagne a 10Mill a year for an area that isn't a real concern to me instead of somewhere else unless McCourt is moving the salary budget upto the 120Mill range.
2006-10-28 13:44:03
18.   Greg Brock
D4P will be happy to know that I am currently watching the third season of Arrested Development on DVD, which I just bought.

Yay!

2006-10-28 13:54:55
19.   D4P
Yay indeed! Is this the first time you've watched season 3? I would rank it below the first 2 seasons, but it's still good.
2006-10-28 13:56:30
20.   Greg Brock
19 No, I watched it when it aired, but I just bought it today.

Yay! (again with the yay)

2006-10-28 14:02:36
21.   D4P
I think we own seasons 1 and 2, but I've never actually watched them on DVD.

I think they spent too long on the Rita storyline

2006-10-28 14:05:29
22.   Greg Brock
Yeah, the Rita stuff was a bit much, but it did create a few good scenes.

The Maggie Lizer stuff, on the other hand, was Hi-larious.

2006-10-28 14:11:32
23.   D4P
I thought 6 full episodes was too much for Rita, and I also felt like there wasn't much of a payoff at the end. I assumed early on that she was "slow in the head," and was hoping there would end up being more to it than that. But there really wasn't.

Did season 3 have the GOB/Steve Holt storyline? That was great. The "kid who found the severed hand" was classic. I also liked the episode with Justine Bateman. "She's blowing everyone." "Away, right? She's blowing everyone away...?"

2006-10-28 15:09:02
24.   GIDP
7

Ah, so the JUICE is responsible for that devestating change-up.

2006-10-28 15:23:29
25.   twerp
Fairly objective analysis of the Mets. Mentions a few Dodgermets, FWIW. Says NY may not be/was not as good as widely assumed....

http://www.nysun.com/article/42225

2006-10-28 15:33:04
26.   PlayTwo
13: Jason Varitek had Boras for his agent when he took less money to stay put. So there is some precedent for a a Boras player to stay home although not much. The percentages are certainly against it and you've now got me thinking that it is about the money.
2006-10-28 15:54:31
27.   D4P
Gagne just wants re$pect
2006-10-28 16:11:50
28.   overkill94
26 Varitek's deal wasn't much of a bargain though, 4/$40 million which will end when Varitek is 36, not exactly the glory years for a catcher.

I see that Nomar filed for free agency. Does this mean anything? Does this mean we can't offer him arbitration and thus get draft picks for him? The whole thing is quite confusing.

2006-10-28 16:12:46
29.   overkill94
Also, let's hope SC's loss today is a sign of things to come so that UCLA will have a chance of beating them at least once more before I die.
2006-10-28 16:40:36
30.   LAT
24. Maybe not the bugs bunny change-up but perhaps the 99mph fastball that makes the change so devestating.
2006-10-28 17:08:27
31.   Improbable88
30 - Gah! Did Carlos Delgado and David Wright look like devastated little leaguers this year when Gagne struck them out back to back??

That Gagne had nothing resembling a 99pmh fastball, and to be honest Gagne never threw at 99 consistently, but he still made two of the league's best hitters look like minor leaguers.

If we can keep a healthy Gagne, at any price, we do it.

Health not Money is the issue.

2006-10-28 17:19:37
32.   ToyCannon
Crazy talk. He's a closer not someone you blow a large % of your budget on. We've given him 20 million for zilch. He and Boras can take his act up North for all I care. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a pitcher who missed two years at age 29 and 30 from seperate injuries who recovered to be healthy enough to be worth anything close to the money he'll be demanding.
2006-10-28 17:51:07
33.   Greg Brock
I would have no problem giving Gagne a base salary around 4 million per, with incentives to kick it up around 8-9 million.

Will Boras and Gagne take an incentive contract? Not a chance. But there you go.

2006-10-28 18:25:43
34.   trainwreck
Red Auerbach just passed away.

RIP smoke a stogey for the old foe, well except Andrew.

2006-10-28 18:28:56
35.   LAT
31. Agreed he didn't throw it consistently but I remember an epic battle with Barry Bonds where GG threw a couple at 100 before BB put it in the water.

32. Agreed 100%

33. I'd be ok with that.

2006-10-28 18:30:46
36.   LAT
34. That's too bad. He was the Principal of Old School NBA.
2006-10-28 18:33:47
37.   WellsforKemp
Will Boras and Gagne take an incentive contract? Not a chance. But there you go.

In an article in the LA Times, (I believe) Gagne stated he would be more than open to accept an incentive laden contract, just not one with such a low base like Frank Thomas. I guess you can take it for what its worth with evilBoras as his agent

2006-10-28 19:11:43
38.   Greg Brock
Karl Dorrell apologists, feel free to stick foot further in mouth.

I hope Bob isn't at this game.

2006-10-28 19:28:03
39.   Marty
I loathed Red Auerbach, but RIP
2006-10-28 19:46:32
40.   trainwreck
That HomeBruin guy is hilarious.
2006-10-28 19:46:56
41.   Greg Brock
40 Tell me about it.
2006-10-28 19:50:27
42.   trainwreck
At least I can watch the Lakers win the title on ESPN Classic.
2006-10-28 19:52:16
43.   Daniel Zappala
You have to give UCLA a break -- their QB is hurt.

Also, it is a glorious day. Stanford did not have to play!

2006-10-28 19:54:36
44.   Daniel Zappala
Temple won today, ending the nation's longest losing streak. Stanford is alone at 0-8. And they play USC next week.
2006-10-28 19:56:54
45.   Greg Brock
43
You have to give UCLA a break -- their QB is hurt

Who says Stanford grads don't have a UCLA mentality.

2006-10-28 19:58:44
46.   trainwreck
5 days till Bruin basketball...

5 days till Bruin basketball...

2006-10-28 20:00:43
47.   Greg Brock
5 days till Bruin basketball...

5 days till Bruin basketball...

2006-10-28 20:03:19
48.   Daniel Zappala
Stanford plays USC, Washington, Oregon State, and Cal. They basically don't have a chance to win until next year.

43 Stanford's QB is also out for the rest of the year with a broken foot.

2006-10-28 21:11:06
49.   bhsportsguy
Its pretty fair to say that the reasons Pat Cowan was not the starting QB at the end of fall camp are now apparent.

That said, I like the headlines that 59 players filed for free agency today but there is no place that I can find the complete list.

They do mention by name, Frank Thomas, Barry Bonds and Nomar Garciaparra, as well as Barry Zito, Alfonso Soriano and Luis Gonzalez.

Players have until November 11th 9:00 P.M. PST, to file for free agency.

Hooray the Hot Stove Season has officially begun.

http://tinyurl.com/yzvfkb

2006-10-28 21:28:59
50.   Greg Brock
Yes, let's blame it on Pat Cowan. Because every team forgets how to execute every facet of the game when their starting quarterback goes down.

Sorry, BH, I'm just a really angry Bruin right now.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-10-28 21:37:01
51.   Bob Timmermann
I stayed for the ENTIRE UCLA-Wazzu game.

See "Punishment, Glutton for"

2006-10-28 21:37:25
52.   D4P
Angry Bruin reports anger brewin'
2006-10-28 21:48:30
53.   Daniel Zappala
Any guess whether USC fans would be even angrier?
2006-10-28 21:57:16
54.   Bob Timmermann
I went to the game with a USC fan. She wasn't happy about the loss to OSU. UCLA losing was small consolation. She told me she would have preferred that Notre Dame lose.

She thought that UCLA could beat USC this year. But she said that before the debacle.

2006-10-28 22:04:23
55.   D4P
54
I went to the game with a USC fan

Does your girlfriend know about this...?

2006-10-28 22:13:44
56.   Bob Timmermann
I would hope she did.
2006-10-28 22:14:10
57.   Daniel Zappala
I attended USC, but only for grad school, and in my book, that doesn't create strong athletic ties. But if I was a USC fan, I would be extremely upset that Oregon State, of all schools, ruined their title hopes for this year.
2006-10-28 22:14:37
58.   Daniel Zappala
56 Maybe she had too much to drink?
2006-10-28 22:15:59
59.   Daniel Zappala
Hmm ... I wonder when the first DT wedding will occur?
2006-10-28 22:16:05
60.   D4P
that doesn't create strong athletic ties

I agree. I have no allegiance to my current grad school at all.

2006-10-28 22:22:54
61.   D4P
58
Did Bob spike her Diet Pepsi again...?
2006-10-28 22:25:13
62.   Linkmeister
After two back-to-back wins on the road the hopeless homers were thinking UH might run the table the rest of the year, beating Purdue and OSU (Pac-10 version) along the way.

After watching Oregon State beat USC, one hopes the homers reevaluate.

2006-10-28 22:25:17
63.   Bob Timmermann
She doesn't drink soda.
2006-10-28 22:32:36
64.   D4P
63
Well, opposites attract, I guess
2006-10-28 22:34:52
65.   Xeifrank
64. Does that mean she hates cats? I just don't see that as a possibility.
vr, Xei
2006-10-28 22:39:36
66.   D4P
65
You do the math...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobt2/107969508/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobt2/107969504/

2006-10-28 23:05:27
67.   Bob Timmermann
She doesn't really like cats.
2006-10-28 23:06:51
68.   D4P
Does she hate books? Does she drive a Hummer? Does she like Frank Robinson?
2006-10-28 23:18:58
69.   Bob Timmermann
No. No. No.
2006-10-28 23:25:46
70.   trainwreck
I was watching a tv show and then in the middle of it, it goes back to a tv show from before. Stupid farmers...
2006-10-28 23:37:05
71.   LAT
25. Thanks Twerp. That was a good article.
2006-10-29 06:07:58
72.   50 years a Dodger Fan
I don't know about Victor Conte but there was a pretty well known actor back in the 40s and 50s named Richard Conte...
2006-10-29 07:15:22
73.   Chris H
At this point, the Bruins could easily lose the rest of their games. If that happens is there any way that Dorrell returns for another uninspiring season? What I am most worried about is that the Bruins manage to knock off the Trojans and that saves Dorrell from the guillotine.
2006-10-29 07:47:27
74.   Greg Brock
Guerrero said Dorrell, whose teams had won 10 straight at the Rose Bowl before Saturday's defeat, has four games left to "right the ship."

Let's go iceberg! Dah Dah, Dahdahdah!

2006-10-29 08:40:47
75.   Marty
72 And of course, he was Barzini in Godfather I.

"Tataglia's a pimp, he could have never fought off Sonny. But until this very day I never realized, it was Barzini all along."

2006-10-29 08:45:05
76.   Greg Brock
"After all, we're not Communists. But he must let us draw the water from the well."
2006-10-29 08:49:25
77.   D4P
74
Are you suggesting that Dorrell "stay the course"...?
2006-10-29 09:21:05
78.   Greg Brock
77
Yes, stay the course right into the iceberg.

Such a shame, too. I had such high hopes for the guy.

2006-10-29 09:26:42
79.   D4P
78
Well, "high hopes" are the kiss of death in sports (if not in life). I try not to get too emotionally attached to my teams anymore, as I did as a youth. It's generally not worth it.
2006-10-29 09:29:50
80.   Greg Brock
79
When it comes to UCLA, rational thought tends to go out the window.

I'm much more pragmatic and even keel when it comes to the Dodgers, that's for sure.

2006-10-29 09:41:59
81.   D4P
Why such irrational allegiance to the Bruins?
2006-10-29 09:42:06
82.   Kayaker7
I guess you guys have moved way beyond the hiring of Conte...but I'm really hopeful that he will have a positive impact. It is hard to believe that all the injuries the Dodgers have suffered is merely coincidence.
2006-10-29 09:48:04
83.   Greg Brock
81
Mom's a Bruin. Dad's a Bruin. I'm a Bruin. So, you know, I grew up in a rational, intelligent house full of maniacal UCLA fans.

Not good.

2006-10-29 09:48:41
84.   Greg Brock
Oh, did anybody else see Hugh Laurie on SNL? He sung a folk song that was so fall-down funny, I watched it three times.

Hi-larious.

2006-10-29 09:49:09
85.   D4P
Mom's a Bruin. Dad's a Bruin

Oh yeah. They teach there, right...?

2006-10-29 09:55:21
86.   Greg Brock
Dad is a chemist. Mom used to teach at SMCC, but now teaches elementary school.
2006-10-29 10:34:44
87.   Woody
"His father was a mudder, his mother was a mudder..."
2006-10-29 10:45:57
88.   Greg Brock
I Never Sang for My Father...
2006-10-29 11:20:20
89.   Greg S
83. Mom's a Bruin, Dad's a Bruin, I'm a Bruin, my brother is a Bruin (if law school counts) and I was born on campus at the medical center. Trump that!
Stangely, not a big college sports fan though. What a waste.
2006-10-29 11:21:54
90.   D4P
if law school counts

Law school never counts. For anything.

2006-10-29 11:24:13
91.   bhsportsguy
Here is an update on Justin Orenduff and a link to a story about other Dodger minor leaguers going through physical rehab this month.

(Orenduff) had seemed on track for a possible September callup before it happened. Shoulder problems are usually the more serious and hardest to come back from but in his case it wasn't as severe, involving cleaning out some tendons in his biceps area.

He's back to doing long toss and hopefully will return to action in the spring.

http://tinyurl.com/ykjnyx

2006-10-29 12:01:25
92.   ToyCannon
91
Is that site worth subscribing to or do they just regurgitate information I can gather from BA/Sickels/BP?
2006-10-29 12:06:18
93.   ToyCannon
Anyone want to lay odds that the Padres sign Ryan Ketchner as a minor league FA?
2006-10-29 12:09:51
94.   WellsforKemp
isnt it possible that the fact that Eric Gagne could generate some if not much of the money he would require this season with extra tickets and "game over" shirts among others make it more of a reason to pick up the option or work another one out.......kinda like Barry in SF to a much lesser scale.

It seems if the Dodgers would be willing to bump up the payroll 5 mill or so he could be easily had.....of course that would mean he he would have shown signs of being healthy.

2006-10-29 12:11:39
95.   bhsportsguy
92 I am pretty sure the forums are free but the only reason I can see the articles is that I subscribe to the UCLA site.

So I can't tell you if the Dodger site is worth it, the UCLA site does provide pretty good information on what goes on with recruiting and the ongoing seasons.

Right now and for a lot of this season its been meltdown city for the UCLA football program.

2006-10-29 12:23:28
96.   thinkingblue
mlb.com likes the mets to win the world seires next year. yeah right. I think even the dodgers have a better chance than the mets.
2006-10-29 12:45:30
97.   natepurcell
trainwreck, im sorry but my team totally is totally destroying your team today.

fear the fasano.

2006-10-29 12:53:37
98.   twerp
66 The cat looks very wise. Is it available to advise Colletti on free agents and trades?
2006-10-29 13:26:47
99.   trainwreck
97
Happens when your rb has 4 tds, but my team stinks anyways.

Nice to hear Dan is not pleased with Dorrell.

2006-10-29 13:28:28
100.   Rocc
What do Dodger fans perceive Gagne's going rate to be?

The Rays need relievers, not so much closers, and I'm almost definite that Gagne is nowhere the equation. However, as a baseball fan, I'm just wondering what the market for injury-prone closer will be.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-10-29 13:31:00
101.   D4P
The cat looks very wise

And Mighty. I'm not sure, but I think Casey (the cat) had something to do with the signing of Furcal...

2006-10-29 13:33:52
102.   trainwreck
Randy Moss needs some stick em.
2006-10-29 13:40:17
103.   natepurcell
randy moss has dropped alot of passes this year.
2006-10-29 13:49:25
104.   D4P
randy moss has dropped alot of passes this year

And he had made a lot of money doing it.
2006-10-29 14:25:16
105.   50 years a Dodger Fan
94 If Gagne comes back all the way, he'll be worth a lot of money regardless of extra tickets and T-shirt sales. If he doesn't, fan support and T-shirt sales will go before he goes.
2006-10-29 14:52:26
106.   Greg Brock
As much as I love Gagne, the Los Angeles Dodgers are far bigger than any one person. The team will do well financially, whether Gagne is around or not. As tough as it is to say, I got used to the Dodgers not having Gagne fairly easily.

He can run toward guaranteed money, and the team will survive. It would be nice if he took a four million dollar, incentive laden deal, but I'm not holding my breath.

Good luck in Boston, Eric.

2006-10-29 14:52:56
107.   twerp
11 15 Being nothing if not determined--or hardheaded, according to some views--I finally found a digest-style version of a "Gagne might take less to stay" story Tony Jackson, Daily News, 8/24...

http://tinyurl.com/y4l7sj

Someone here said Gagne changed his tone a bit after this. What did he say then?

2006-10-29 15:45:06
108.   dzzrtRatt
He basically took it all back. There will be no hometown discount, period. This story ran a day later.

It couldn't have been more obvious that after the story ran, Boras called Gagne and read him the riot act.

I'm sure what Boras is seeing is that marketing Gagne as a high-priced free agent, getting him a lucrative 3-year deal is going to be his stiffest challenge yet. He's going to have to create an auction based on nothing but past history and a doctor's assurances. If the Greater Fools think they don't have a shot at Gagne to begin with -- disastrous.

I'm used to not having Gagne around, obviously. His absence didn't hurt attendance, and we got to the playoffs. That said, if Boras is unsuccessful in getting a deep-pocketed team to take him on his terms and the market drops back down to where it should be for Gagne, I hope the Dodgers at least try to sign him. I tend to think his return to excellence is a fair bet.

2006-10-29 15:52:46
109.   Bob Timmermann
8/23/06 Daily News by Tony Jackson

SAN DIEGO -- Dodgers closer Eric Gagne, who is out for the season with a back injury and clearly headed for free agency in the fall, said Tuesday he wants to remain with the club.

He also is willing to take less money than he might get from another team in order to do so.

"I'm a Dodger," Gagne said. "I want to be here. I think we have a really good relationship. But that's out of my control. I have to get healthy, and then I will go wherever someone wants me. But I think they want me here, so I don't think it will be a problem."

Asked if he would give the Dodgers a hometown discount, Gagne said, "Definitely."

The Dodgers hold a $12 million club option on Gagne for next season, but there is no chance they will exercise it. Once they have paid the $1 million buyout, it will become a matter of whether the Dodgers want to negotiate to re-sign Gagne, who is represented by notorious hardball agent Scott Boras. Gagne is nearing the end of a two-year, $19 million deal, during which he has made all of 16 appearances. He is getting a $10 million salary this season, when he has made all of two.

Boras isn't known for giving clubs hometown discounts on behalf of his clients, but Gagne said he will maintain full control of his upcoming free-agent negotiations.

"(Boras) is my agent," Gagne said. "I'm not his player."

2006-10-29 16:10:09
110.   Jon Weisman
I covered all this on DT.

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/485197.html

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/483620.html

2006-10-29 16:15:00
111.   D4P
I erred in 27 by claiming that all Gagne wants is re$pect. I should have added that he also wants fairne$$
2006-10-29 16:18:08
112.   Greg Brock
Seriously, the fate of the Dodgers has almost nothing to do with Gagne. Stay, go, the team will rise and fall on the strength of the starting pitching, and the ability to grab a big bat.

Game Over was really cute and all, but Eric Gagne doesn't crack my five most important issues this offseason.

2006-10-29 16:19:36
113.   D4P
Eric Gagne doesn't crack my five most important issues this offseason

Does that mean he's #6...?

2006-10-29 16:23:53
114.   Greg Brock
Let's see...

1) Can we get a slugger?
2) Will we grab Zito or Schmidt?
3) Matsuzaka, anyone?
4) Who's on first?
5) What's the name of the man on third base?
6) Who plays centerfield?
7) Does Maddux re-sign?
8) Kuo in the rotation?
9) Will Gagne re-sign?
10)Whither Yhency Brazoban?

To quote John Lennon...Number Nine...Number Nine...Number Nine...

2006-10-29 16:38:29
115.   D4P
What's the name of the man on third base?

Hopefully not "Rich Donnelly"

2006-10-29 16:43:10
116.   50 years a Dodger Fan
115 Yes, it will be Donnelly. As we saw last year in the Lugo case and some others, when Little makes up his mind, neither ---- nor high water will make him change it. As long as Little is here, Donnelly has a job.
2006-10-29 16:45:15
117.   D4P
----

Hangman!

Um, I'll start with "h"...

2006-10-29 16:58:23
118.   Greg Brock
Hulk or high water?

Never heard that one before...

2006-10-29 17:08:20
119.   D4P
Never heard that one before...

Well, the guy has been a Dodger fan for 50 years, so that phrase might be before our time...

2006-10-29 17:25:28
120.   Jon Weisman
Are we still allowed to talk about issues that aren't the most important of the Dodger offseason?

We had a lengthy discussion on Joe Beimel and no one complained.

2006-10-29 17:33:59
121.   Greg Brock
120 I certainly wasn't trying to mandate what was acceptable offseason chatter. I was just giving my perspective on the Gagne situation. I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything like that.
2006-10-29 17:46:12
122.   natepurcell
can we get Sal Fasano to be our back up catcher?
2006-10-29 17:55:49
123.   twerp
117 I'll try h-a-i-l. Spoken with a southern accent, you see....
2006-10-29 17:59:34
124.   trainwreck
122
He may help us get an ace. Who doesn't wanna throw to Sal Fasano?
2006-10-29 18:02:48
125.   Jon Weisman
121 - Yours wasn't the only comment I was responding too, but I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
2006-10-29 18:04:46
126.   trainwreck
DeWitt is playing SS for North Shore Honolulu. This probably has more to do with the prospects on the team with him, but it would be interesting if he could actually field the position, which he most likely cannot.
2006-10-29 18:05:46
127.   D4P
Who doesn't wanna throw to Sal Fasano?

Answer: 356

Question: What was Sal Fasano's Rate2 in 2002?

2006-10-29 18:10:45
128.   KG16
114 - that looks like a pretty good list. I was tempted to make a who's on first joke out of issues 5 and 6...

but I do think the slugger question will be answered by either 4, 5, or 6 (and I'm hoping it's 5 since I'd like to see Kemp and Loney get a shot)

2006-10-29 18:15:46
129.   ToyCannon
If we had Conte back in the spring of 2005 it is possible that Gagne is never allowed to test his knee when it wasn't ready and who knows what the future would have been.

I still think Conte is a big deal for our future but it may just be wishfull thinking which I'm prone to.

2 days until the NBA kicks off.

2006-10-29 18:23:20
130.   twerp
If this has been posted, didn't see it.

Hochevar in AFL before being pulled: 8 1/3 IP, 8 ER. More on injury concern, apparently not a big deal===

http://tinyurl.com/yb2w7r

2006-10-29 19:04:03
131.   WellsforKemp
129. 2 days until the NBA kicks off.

I dont know if I hate this time of year b/c its the longest possible amount of time from the baseball season or b/c the NBA kicks off :)

The more I think about it, I would really like the Dodgers to sign Schmidt, I think its a perfect fit b/c after the 3 or so years expires the Dodgers hopefully wont need an impact starter for some time. I also hope the Dodgers forget Maddux.

Schmidt
Lowe
Penny
Bills
Kuo

Im not too worried about depth when that means someone like Lilly..ect. we have plenty of inexpensive options IMO

2006-10-29 19:26:53
132.   LAT
129. 2 days until the NBA kicks off.

Thank goodness. My first Sunday without baseball and I remember just how much I don't care about the NFL.

2006-10-29 19:36:33
133.   Bob Timmermann
I'm watching Sunday Night Big East Football.

Rutgers leads UConn 17-13 in the 4th quarter. Despite being undefeated, Rutgers doesn't get a whole lot of fans.

2006-10-29 19:39:11
134.   Bob Timmermann
The student newspaper at Rutgers is called the Daily Targum.
2006-10-29 19:40:40
135.   D4P
133
I have been to one (count it, one) UNC football game in my four football seasons here. That game was a clash between Rutgers and UNC, at the beginning of this season. Rutgers had a pretty decent following at the game.
2006-10-29 19:41:34
136.   D4P
134
The student newspaper at UNC is called the Daily Tarheel.

gum, heel, gum on heel...

2006-10-29 19:41:46
137.   twerp
Haven't seen anything anywhere about pitchers who struggled after being in the WBC this spring...

Jae Seo and ODP (Odialus Dreadful Pitching ) both were in WBC, struggled with LA, and eventually got traded. Both pitched better afterward--not every time, but better overall.

Seo had 6 quality starts of his last 10. ODP had 3 QS of 5 in Sept. Over his last 2, ODP gave up just 3 ER in 13 IP.

I saw claims that they just needed to be in the rotation longer, let them work out the kinks. IMO, given what they did in LA, that's a hard case to make.

Maybe this is a bit of a stretch. But could part of their struggles have been due to different WBC coaching and handling with normal MLB routines, practice, timing, mechanics, etc. being thrown off? Maybe they picked up plain old bad habits.

The WBC coming as close as it did to the season might have been a factor. Any ideas?Has anyone seen anything about this?

2006-10-29 19:42:40
138.   Bob Timmermann
With a wider shot, it appears that Rutgers has a decent crowd. I don't think they play in a large stadium. It seats around 40,000.
2006-10-29 19:44:29
139.   Bob Timmermann
137
Teams complained about the WBC's effect on pitchers all year round.
2006-10-29 19:47:54
140.   50 years a Dodger Fan
I guess this is the time of the year for crazy ideas. Anyone wants to kick this one around, feel free; I'm not advocating it, just throwing it out there. I think it was last year at the winter meetings the whacky mayor of Las Vegas was trying to get a franchise to move to Vegas. Playing conditions would be horrible but financially it would probably work out. If all the casinos bought season tickets (tax deductable) to hand out to their guests, the club would have a sell out every night. Financially viable but of course it isn't going to happen.
2006-10-29 19:52:40
141.   Bob Timmermann
Why would all the season tickets bought by casinos in Las Vegas be tax deductible? I think the IRS wouldn't look too kindly on that.
2006-10-29 20:17:34
142.   D4P
IRS: killing comedy since 1952 (and message board threads since, well, whenever Al Gore invented the internet)
2006-10-29 20:47:20
143.   Bob Timmermann
It's just that if all the people coming to the games of a Las Vegas major league team were out of towners who were getting casino comps, the team wouldn't get a lot of support or be much of a success.

You need local fans especially if you want to get anything out of your TV and radio contracts.

2006-10-29 20:47:46
144.   popup
It would surprise me for a MLB team to make a go of it in Vegas. Transient population, I would think not much of a tv market. It would be good though to get the Dodgers to move their triple A affiliation out of there. I am surprised there is not a Pacific Coast League team in Southern California. To me it would make sense for the Dodgers to have their triple A team closer to home.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-10-29 20:51:20
145.   Bob Timmermann
Where could you put a AAA franchise in Southern California?

Fresno and Sacramento have teams. The San Bernardino and Riverside areas are dominated by the California League.

2006-10-29 20:53:30
146.   D4P
I heard a rumor that Steve is starting a AAA franchise in Ontario
2006-10-29 20:57:51
147.   Bob Timmermann
Will KFWB broadcast their games?
2006-10-29 20:58:51
148.   D4P
Yes, but not in Ontario...
2006-10-29 21:14:41
149.   popup
How far is Pasadena from Dodger Stadium? I am not sure if it is in the Dodgers territory. Even if it is, the Dodgers might allow a team to locate there because it would make it quite a bit easier when recalling players from Triple A. Having a Triple A team in Tacoma has been a benefit to the Mariners in lots of ways. Guys on rehab assignment can be close to home, if they need someone from Triple A, it is short ride on I-5 to Safeco Field. From what I understand some of the Triple A players on the 40 man roster live midway between Tacoma and Seattle so they don't have to move when they get called up or get shipped back during the season.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-10-29 21:24:55
150.   KG16
My guess is that Vegas will have a pro team in at least one of the four major sports within the next ten years.

There are almost 2 million in the metro area, and it's still growing. It's about the same size as Kansas City metro. And the above mentioned casinos makes the potential population bigger.

The hang up will be the sports books. They currently don't take action on UNLV games, and I'm guessing they wouldn't be able to take action on games involving a pro team (this would be a great deal of trouble if said team makes the playoffs).

As far as playing conditions go... they play in Arizona, Tampa Bay, and several other less than ideal locales.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-10-29 21:30:36
151.   50 years a Dodger Fan
I don't know why they wouldn't be a tax write-off if the alleged purpose of their purchase was to promote business. Just like all the other stuff they do. I'm sure there would be very few people actually in attendance, locals or tourist; too many other attractions. But 30 to 40 thousand tickets sold every night , used or not, would make a profit. I know it won't work, just a theoretical ploy.
2006-10-29 21:33:46
152.   50 years a Dodger Fan
145 Where could you put a AAA franchise in Southern California?

Palm Springs? Bad as Vegas. Santa Barbara? Carmel?

2006-10-29 21:34:49
153.   Bob Timmermann
Pasadena borders Los Angeles. You couldn't put a AAA team in it. There's no space for a baseball stadium anyway.

A AAA team in Southern California would only have a chance of being viable if it were in the Inland Empire, but then the Cal League would get ticked off because a whole bunch of teams would have to move: Rancho Cucamona, Inland Empire (San Berdoo), High Desert (Adelanto), Lake Elsinore.

2006-10-29 21:40:15
154.   Bob Timmermann
151
When corporations buy season tickets and write them off, they usually justify it by saying they are taking out a client and talking business.

I don't think you can paper the whole house with freebies like that and get the IRS to agree to write it off.

2006-10-29 21:46:24
155.   bhsportsguy
News you have been waiting for.

A total of 83 players have filed since the World Series from a potential free-agent class of about 200. Players can file through Nov. 11, and free agents can talk money with all teams beginning the following day.

Jason Schmidt and Alfonso Soriano filed today. Former 2006 Dodgers to file so far include Ricky Ledee, Danys Baez and Sandy Alomar, Jr. The link provides the first total list of free agents I have seen.

CURRENT LIST OF FREE AGENTS (12:00 a.m. 10/30/2006)

LOS ANGELES (3) -- Nomar Garciaparra, 1B; Julio Lugo, SS; Ramon E. Martinez, 2B.

http://tinyurl.com/yjzdtx

2006-10-29 21:48:00
156.   LAT
150. I never understood the whole not making book on UNLV thing. If the argumnet is that UNLV is too close to the casino than why do they let you bet on boxing matches in the parking lots and conventioncenters right outside the casino. If the argument is that the wise guys could corrupt the game then it makes no sense. They can corrupt any college game and still bet on it in Las Vegas. What is the rational?
2006-10-29 21:50:01
157.   bhsportsguy
The remaining Dodger free agents to be include Eric Gagne, Greg Maddux, Kenny Lofton, Aaron Sele and J.D. Drew has a player option for this year only.
2006-10-29 21:54:41
158.   LAT
Other than Nomar I don't care about losing any of those potential free agents. I don't include Drew cause he's not going anywhere.
2006-10-29 21:56:46
159.   Bob Timmermann
156
I think the no betting on UNLV (and Nevada also) games is more PR than anything else.

Early lines have Cal as a 17 point favorite over UCLA.

TCU is a 20 point favorite over UNLV.

USC is favored by 28 1/2 over Stanford.

2006-10-29 22:14:36
160.   Xeifrank
145. Ventura County or Santa Barbara. Of course there is the minor thing about a stadium needing to be built. Just don't plow up any of our farm land. vr, Xei
2006-10-30 02:14:28
161.   xaphor
The SFV Illusions of Grandeur

Put the stadium in the Sepulveda Basin; no AAA games during flood season. :)

2006-10-30 07:24:55
162.   Bob Timmermann
161
The SFV team could be called the NIMBYs.
2006-10-30 07:55:13
163.   ToyCannon
I used to play in this stadium called Casey Stengal in the middle of Verdugo Park in Glendale. I always thought it would make a great single A stadium. Course that was 32 years ago so who knows if its even standing anymore.
2006-10-30 07:55:48
164.   ToyCannon
161
They could build it over the Cricket fields:)
2006-10-30 08:48:03
165.   Bob Timmermann
Casey Stengel Field still stands:

http://tinyurl.com/uaerv

2006-10-30 09:38:24
166.   ToyCannon
165Thanks for the picture. I need to make a memory lane pitstop to Glendale and pickup a sandwich from Mario's and then go sit in the Stengel grandstands and eat it.
2006-10-30 10:06:00
167.   ToyCannon
A quick review of the players who've filed for free agency and just a quick comment on some players I wouldn't mind becoming Dodgers.
Not in any order.
Nixon - Solid OB and power man who used to be a great defensive RF but with constant injuries. If we were to trade Ethier for pitching he'd be a nice choice to man LF, but he'd need a platoon partner as he can't hit lefties any better then Lofton.

Riske - okay setup man. His early pitching peripherals have never translated into the elite relief pitcher he could have been. Dominance continues to fall along with his command while his HR rate goes up. Might be worth a flier as the 4th guy in the bullpen if he's cheap enough.

Otavio Dotel - still weak from his surgery. Showed nothing in 2006 but I'm always on the lookout for pitchers who've struggled after the 1st year back from surgery who used to have awesome stuff.

Eaton - Dodger killer, for some reason I still have hope for him but it is probably misplaced.

Mathews Jr - would easily fill our void in CF but will probably be to expensive coming off his career year considering his ups and downs. He's not as good as he showed in 2006 but he would be a capable CF for us.

Lilly - Would thrive in DS. I'm very curious what he ends up getting.
Year IP ERA xERA Ctl Dom Cmd hr/9 G/L/F
==== === ==== ==== === === === === ========
2003 178 4.35 3.74 2.9 7.4 2.5 1.2 35/20/45
2004 197 4.06 3.89 4.1 7.7 1.9 1.2 36/18/46
2005 126 5.57 4.32 4.1 6.9 1.7 1.6 37/22/41
2006 187 4.31 3.60 4.0 7.9 2.0 1.4 41/18/41
I'd make a serious play for him.

Blanco - he'd be a perfect backup catcher for Martin.

Valentin - possible super utility option

Schmidt - Who wouldn't want him, the problem will be the number of years.

Soriano - If he will stay in LF then I'm interested.

Wolf - Since he went to my local HS (ECR) I've always been a fan. Another pitcher who just came back from surgery and flailed. His biggest failing has been his HR rate, and while DS may not help that, getting out of Phillie will. I'd take a chance on him at the right price.
Year IP ERA Ctl Dom Cmd hr/9
==== == ==== === === === ====
2003 200 4.23 3.5 8.3 2.3 1.2
2004 136 4.30 2.4 5.9 2.5 1.3
2005 80 4.39 2.9 6.9 2.6 1.6
2006 44 5.56 5.3 7.0 1.3 1.6

2006-10-30 10:22:11
168.   50 years a Dodger Fan
167 Did Valentin say anything during the playoffs to become PNG at Dodger Stadium? He could be interesting jousting with LaRoche for third and serving as a pretty good backup at third and for Kent.
2006-10-30 10:29:24
169.   Marty
166 Mario's is as good as ever. I've been eating their sandwiches since 1975 and still go there about 1-2 times a month.
2006-10-30 11:41:42
170.   ToyCannon
Marty you and I have the same timeline. Someday we'll have to meet.
2006-10-30 11:44:10
171.   Marty
I wish I had made it to the DT at Dodger Stadium night.
2006-10-30 12:34:52
172.   twerp
137 139 I don't doubt teams griped about the WBC. Its timing so close to the season was nowhere near good.

But were there any stories written or was any objective analysis done on aftereffects--or lack of--on players? Or is the griping all anecdotal?

Teams would be very quick to blame the WBC for problems of players who participated, and they might be right. Seo and ODP might be instances of it.

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