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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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5) discussing politics
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Pang and Suffering
2006-11-03 17:34
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Independent of whether it was right for the Dodgers to buy out Eric Gagne's $12 million option for 2007 (because it certainly was) or whether Gagne will ever be Gagne again (because odds are against it), I can't help feel a pang that one of the most thrilling pitchers in Dodger history is now anyone's potential player.

It's not as if seeing Gagne hurt wasn't a bigger pang, or that I haven't had plenty of time to prepare for this pang, but this is a pang nonetheless.

Comments (304)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-11-03 17:40:36
1.   sanchez101
I feel your pang
2006-11-03 17:41:18
2.   D4P
I heard a rumor that Ned found the whole "Game Over" slogan a bit too cocky for his liking
2006-11-03 17:43:00
3.   trainwreck
The saddest part for me is that it all went down hill so fast. Gagne was the NL Cy Young and then all of a sudden he could not even get into a game and he became an after thought. If he does leave the team, it will be a sad ending for such a Dodger icon.
2006-11-03 17:46:30
4.   sanchez101
I still think he comes back. Maybe Im being too optomistic, but don't the Dodgers need help in the bullpen and can't they just sign Gagne to a Nomar-like contract? I can't help but think if the Dodgers don't sign him, it probably means that they don't think his arm is worth much going forward.

Then again, if he leaves, thats the last of the Tracy Dodgers out the door. That'd be nice ... bring on the new age!

2006-11-03 17:47:05
5.   Andrew Shimmin
And, the new CBA rules make it even a little pangier, I think, in that there's still a chance that he's coming back. So we get to wait. And feel ambivalent about whether it would be good for anyone if he did come back. For, potentially, months.
2006-11-03 17:57:14
6.   das411
Wait, so this is not a thread requested by Bob about the one and only Darren Pang??
2006-11-03 18:04:20
7.   Bob Timmermann
No, no it is not.
2006-11-03 18:17:10
8.   Bob Timmermann
Watching Army trail at home 30-0 in the first half to Air Force, I'm left with this question:

The Cadets who are at the game have to stay to the bitter end don't they? It's not like they can give up and go home can they?

2006-11-03 18:18:43
9.   twerp
So is this a gang pang?
2006-11-03 18:19:26
10.   D4P
Yes, the Cadets must stay the course. They are not allowed to cut and run (other than on the football field...)
2006-11-03 18:21:27
11.   dianagramr
9

yup ... its the whole shebang ...

2006-11-03 18:24:25
12.   Bob Timmermann
It's 36-0 Air Force and it's still the first half.

I believe American military strategy should be predicated on this game. However, Navy beat Air Force earlier in the year.

And Navy beat Stanford.

2006-11-03 18:25:10
13.   scareduck
Pang a gong... get it on.. pang a gong...
2006-11-03 18:26:51
14.   D4P
Is it safe to assume that Air Force relies on the forward pass, while Army keeps the ball on the ground...?
2006-11-03 18:27:23
15.   scareduck
8, 10 - why do the troops hate America so?
2006-11-03 18:29:46
16.   Bob Timmermann
Air Force runs on almost every play, but they just scored on a TD pass to go up 43-0. Army has turned it over five times in the first half. And gave up a safety on a kickoff.

Air Force has scored 36 points in the second quarter.

2006-11-03 18:33:20
17.   D4P
Well, I wouldn't count Army out. They'll make the necessary adjustments at the half. They're plenty smart...
2006-11-03 18:34:50
18.   Bob Timmermann
Army coach Bobby Ross, who's seen just about everything, said he's never seen a team have everything go wrong for it so fast.
2006-11-03 18:36:50
19.   D4P
No doubt the announcers are only focusing on what Army is doing wrong
2006-11-03 18:42:45
20.   Linkmeister
This would seem to indicate that Navy has a lock on the Commander-in-Chief's trophy this year.

I actually saw an Army-Navy game once, in Philly. It was so long ago that Roger Staubach was the QB for Navy.

2006-11-03 18:46:40
21.   Bob Timmermann
If Army beats Navy, then the trophy would be shared.
2006-11-03 18:49:24
22.   Linkmeister
Well, yeah, but that seems unlikely, given the shellacking Army's getting today and the way Navy's played so far this year.

And I shouldn't have separated "in Philly" with a comma; the game is always played in Philly (at least since WW2, anyway).

2006-11-03 18:50:46
23.   Bob Timmermann
Except when the game has been played in New Jersey, Baltimore, or Pasadena.
2006-11-03 19:00:32
24.   Marty
All I can tell America's students is to keep hitting the books. Otherwise you'll end up at an Army-Air Force game.
2006-11-03 19:02:50
25.   natepurcell
everyone go see the borat movie. just hilariousssss.
2006-11-03 19:04:06
26.   Bob Timmermann
It looks like a lot of the people who went to the game by choice have opted to go home.
2006-11-03 19:09:44
27.   Bob Timmermann
I hope Mark Donohue was seated when he saw this on MLB.com

" Rockies: Kenny Lofton and Steve Finley have been added to the growing list of possible free-agent targets in center field, according to The Denver Post. Dave Roberts, Gary Matthews Jr. and Darin Erstad also have been mentioned."

The mind reels at Kenny Lofton trying to cover all the ground in center at Coors.

2006-11-03 19:13:58
28.   D4P
This excerpt from Bad Altitude:

With an operational understanding that under this management regime there is no chance in hell the Rockies will land a Carlos Beltran, Andruw Jones, or Torii Hunter

2006-11-03 19:15:35
29.   natepurcell
a Carlos Beltran, Andruw Jones, or Torii Hunter

one of th three does not belong with the other two. of course, that did not even have to be said.

2006-11-03 19:18:15
30.   ToyCannon
My dad went to West Point when they were kicking out the best players in the country. He's been fairly miserable about his football team ever since I was born.
2006-11-03 19:19:07
31.   Andrew Shimmin
29- Of course it doesn't. Everybody knows Beltran is the only one who doesn't spell his first name funny.
2006-11-03 19:20:25
32.   trainwreck
I am going to see Borat tomorrow. Was originally going to go tonight, but Laker game is on and Evil Dead 2 is being screen in a theater in SF.
2006-11-03 19:21:29
33.   D4P
31
Since when does "Carl" have an "os" on the end...?
2006-11-03 19:23:02
34.   Andrew Shimmin
D4P's been hanging out with Derek Lowe again. . .
2006-11-03 19:26:13
35.   D4P
USA! USA! USA!
2006-11-03 19:28:19
36.   natepurcell
32

you are going to love it. its amazing. im just sad that hes never going to make another one since everyone will know who he is now.

2006-11-03 19:32:13
37.   Andrew Shimmin
36- Next movie's in the works, though, instead of Borat, he's going to play the Bruno character. Which is my least favorite of the three, but, there you go.
2006-11-03 19:34:25
38.   natepurcell
37

yea i meant no more borat movies. Bruno is just annoying.

2006-11-03 19:34:32
39.   trainwreck
36
I am going to the gayest place in ze world...

Alabama!

Great I love Romans.

2006-11-03 19:37:53
40.   trainwreck
I meant 37.
2006-11-03 19:38:27
41.   ToyCannon
I'm pangless about Gagne. I'm glad he's gone and that we won't be committing 10% of a 25 man team to a closer.
2006-11-03 19:41:37
42.   D4P
I'm glad he's gone

Well, he's not gagn yet. The fact that Ned decided not to pay him $12 million doesn't mean he won't sign him at all.

2006-11-03 19:50:03
43.   trainwreck
The Angels are targeting Aramis as their number 1 priority according to ESPN insider.
2006-11-03 19:56:53
44.   ToyCannon
42
Really, when was the last time a Boras client who was a free agent resigned with his previous team?
2006-11-03 19:58:19
45.   D4P
Lakers are en fuego
2006-11-03 19:58:22
46.   Andrew Shimmin
43- Good. We've got two 3Bs already. If LaRoche isn't ready (or if he needs to be taken down a peg with a little more time in the minors) we've got Betemit. Just because he didn't play in Jacksonville doesn't mean he shouldn't get a shot. He cost us Aybar and two first round draft picks. We should at least try to get something out of that deal.
2006-11-03 19:58:30
47.   natepurcell
lakers look awesome.
2006-11-03 19:59:34
48.   D4P
44
I think Veritek meets those criteria???, but your point still stands. I'm not saying he's likely to return, but it's also not a foregone conclusion that he won't.
2006-11-03 20:00:06
49.   regfairfield
44 Bernie Williams, 2006. Last time a marquee one did, I'm not entirely sure, but Dreifort comes to mind.
2006-11-03 20:01:59
50.   trainwreck
Aww the beauty of actually knowing the triangle.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-11-03 20:02:28
51.   natepurcell
that sequence was amazing. bynum skys for a rejection, kobe takes it up court, dishes it to lamar. lamar lulls the defense to sleep and dishes to a slashing kobe for the throw down.

showtime!

2006-11-03 21:06:12
52.   Uncle Miltie
I'm going to see Borat in about an hour. I already own both seasons of the Ali G Show and I'm surprised how popular it's gotten. One of my friends saw an advanced screening and said it's incredible. Unlike Snakes on a Plane, this movie will be funny sober.
2006-11-03 21:14:27
53.   Louis in SF
Although it was only for a short time when Barry Bonds was a Scott Boras client, Boras did Bond's last contract....If there is anyway to get Gagne at a reasonable price and he looks like he can be reasonably good, I would love to see him back. The unfortunate thing is decisions in the bullpen may have to wait until the starting pitching is settleted. I believe somebody may take a flyer on Gagne before we finish off our pitching. If we resign Maddux and keep the basic same Dodger rotation, the only pitcher in that group who can be counted on for 7 reasonable innings is Lowe. With this type of rotation, I believe haveing a group of relief pitchers who have a variety of pitches is the way to go. Imagine having a back of a bullpen of Gagne, Broxton and Saito, with the hope of Yahency as well. Hendrickson and a good lefty, perhaps even Beimel would be a good bullpen.
2006-11-03 21:46:30
54.   JoeyP
This Lakers team is the least likeable since the Sedale Threatt years. And at least with him and that group, there was some athleticism and exciting play.

If I was Mitch, I'd keep Kobe and Turiaf. Dump everyone else.

This Lakers team looks like one of the slowest and most unathletic in the league.

At least Smush is gone...Is he?

2006-11-03 21:51:06
55.   D4P
The Lakers defense doesn't look good. I'd rather keep Odum than Kobe.

Keep:
Odum
Walton
Turiaf
Bynum
Cook/Evans/Farmar

Dump:
The rest

2006-11-03 21:51:39
56.   underdog
Everybody should go see Boras. It's really funny. It's about this agent without scruples from Kazakhastan who wants to be the richest man in the world, but no one can understand him and everyone hates him and he becomes glorious.
2006-11-03 21:55:04
57.   underdog
The Lakers defense is looking a little iffy tonight but I was actually going to say this is the first lakers team in several years in which I like almost all the players. I love Turiaf. I like Odom a lot and think he's going to have a really good year (with some personal motivation stemming from his tragedy), Farmar's going to fun to watch, Smush (yes, he's still around) is smush, Maurice Evans was a steal as a pickup, Walton's erratic but I like him, Bynum's looking like a good one... I'm not sure about the Slavic boys but they will help off the bench. I definitely like this team more than the one that will have Kwame Brown come back (now him I wouldn't mind dumping). No, I'm going to enjoy watching this team much more than the last few years.
2006-11-03 21:59:19
58.   D4P
Seattle has taken 24 more shots than the Lakers, who in turn have 9 more turnovers
2006-11-03 22:01:28
59.   underdog
I can't imagine why on Earth the Lakers would seriously diminish Turiaf's playing time when Stonehands Brown comes back.
2006-11-03 22:16:32
60.   JoeyP
Definitely agree.
Lakers need make Turiaf the permanent starter at PF, and somehow trade Kwame's contract (it'll be hard bc I think they already picked his option up for next year).

I like Kobe and Turiaf.

Odom--dont like him be he just seems way too passive, weak defensively.
Cook/Walton/Radman--dont like them either, way too slow, unathletic
Sascha--he's ok for like the 12th man
Smush/Farmar..these guys are D-League material

I think the Lakers would have been in really good shape had they pulled the Odom for Artest deal last year. But I dont see enough athleticsm or defensive ability to beat the better teams in the league with the current roster.

2006-11-03 22:19:24
61.   trainwreck
They just beat the Suns in the opening game of the season and Odom played the best out of anyone.
2006-11-03 22:31:58
62.   Icaros
I don't understand how any Lakers fan isn't excited about this team.
2006-11-03 22:33:05
63.   Icaros
JoeyP,

What do you think of Scott Linehan?

2006-11-03 22:35:30
64.   JoeyP
55--I forgot to mention Bynum. He's a real wild card bc judging from his limited athleticism, his upside might only be Olowokandi or Eddy Curry. My Lakers dream this year is to somehow miss the playoffs (which will be hard), win the lottery (harder still), and draft Greg Oden in June(likely impossible).
2006-11-03 22:39:13
65.   JoeyP
63. I like Linehan so far. Bulger's playing great and I like that the Rams are taking care of the ball and not doing so many weird things they did when Martz was coaching. This years Rams team reminds me of 2000. Lots of offense and a horrible defense.

Jim Haslett's been a disappointment. Of course, he doesnt have a great deal to work with.

Travis Fisher starting, and Jerametrius Butler being gameday inactive have rivaled Phillips for Choi nonsense.

Maybe Jim Haslett is like another Jim....

2006-11-03 22:47:56
66.   Icaros
65

I think Bulger is the most underrated QB in football, and I'd take Torry Holt over T.O. or Randy Moss in a heartbeat.

I like Linehan's overall gameplan, but something about him has me not totally sold yet. He seems to not know all the rules of the game sometimes.

2006-11-04 07:13:09
67.   Bumsrap
Mota setting up Gagne--powerful.

Mota traded to Marlins and can't pitch anymore. Traded to Mets in a contract year and all of a sudden is good again.

Mota suspended for 50 games for roids.

Gagne, used to be very good and then wasn't. Body needed multiple surgeries.

Why was Gagne all of a sudden great? Ned has to understand the answer to that question before resigning him.

And as for the Lakers, maybe it should be Turief at 4 and Odom at 3.

2006-11-04 07:40:04
68.   Big Game
Woah woah woah, this Lakers team is very exciting for me as a fan...Bynum is 19 years old and in the three games this year has shown that he's developing in to a pretty good passer, which is HUGE when youre playing in the triangle. He's a ton more athletic than he's given credit for and being so young, he's still growing.

And the "keep Kobe and Turiaf and dump everyone else" statement is way ridiculous. Lamar Odom is developing in to one of the best players in the league and his defense (he locked down Shawn Marion in the playoffs) is really underrated.

Plus, everyone has had more practice and work on the offense, so dont discount what Kwame and Mihm will bring until they play... add Maurice Evans' toughness and Vlad Radmonovic's shot (and passing skills?!?!) to the mix and theyre going to surprise a lot of people.

The Lakers are DEEEEEP this year. Not many teams can start a season 3-0 with 2/3 of their starters injured...No one is going to want to play this team come playoff time.

2006-11-04 08:29:53
69.   JoeyP
I'd like Lamar Odom alot more if he was in a Toni Kukoc role and on a Toni Kukoc level contract.

Unfortunately, he's cast in a Pippen role, and has a max contract. I just dont think he fits that. After 8 years in the league, I doubt he'll just turn into a great player.

2006-11-04 10:19:47
70.   jakewoods
boras is like any other agent. he listens to his client. boras doesnt make the decisions. the player does. and players usually want the most dough. nothing wrong with that.
2006-11-04 10:27:18
71.   Greg Brock
70
You're not wrong by any stretch, but it's a little more complex than that. The players are told since rookie ball that it's their responsibility to uphold the legacy of all the players that came before them, and that taking hometown discounts, going where they want for less etc. is a slap in the face to all the older union guys that worked to drive the market up.
2006-11-04 10:29:29
72.   Warren
I think the odds of Gagne coming back for at least one more year are very good.

First, from everything I've read Saito is at best 50/50 on coming back next year. He clearly achieved his goal of playing in the US. And he has mentioned many times how he wants to be closer to his family. Assuming he leaves what other closers are going to be available? Assuming he comes back can we really make any predictions based on 4 months of solid work?

Second, I have to think that Boras and Gagne will be looking for a one year incentive laden deal with the idea of Gagne proving himself and going back on the market next year. That being the case why can't the Dodgers give him that sort of deal? And assuming they do aren't they the favorites to retain him all things being relatively equal?

Unless a team gets desperate and throws a big multiyear deal his way I think it makes a lot of sense to both sides to get Gagne back next year at least for one more (less expensive) shot at a comeback.

Finally, for whatever it's' worth, I'm from Georgia but I was in LA this summer and still the vast majority of shirts and jerseys were for Gagne. This basically two years since he pitched effectively. Ned can say all he wants about the fans cheering for whoever is producing for the team but Gagne like special unlike Garciaparra, Lo Duca, maybe even Piazza.

2006-11-04 10:31:06
73.   Warren
...typo

but Gagne is special unlike...

2006-11-04 12:12:39
74.   D4P
the San Jose Mercury News reported that, according to baseball sources, the Giants are undecided whether to offer Bonds a contract. Sources told the newspaper the Giants want assurances that Bonds would conduct himself in a more professional manner. The newspaper reported that, according to sources inside and outside the Giants clubhouse, several times during the season Bonds made himself unavailable in pinch-hitting situations, angering his teammates and coaches...Borris, Bonds' agent, declined comment when the Mercury News asked about the incidents.
2006-11-04 13:20:50
75.   ToyCannon
Via Rotowire:

"Kei Igawa (P) 11/4/2006
The Hanshin Tigers of Japan's Central League are expected to announce Wednesday that they will make Igawa available to MLB teams via the posting system, the Tokyo Daily Yomiuri reports. Meanwhile, the Dallas Morning News reports the Rangers have continued interest in Igawa, perhaps as a fallback option if they're not the high bidders for Daisuke Matsuzaka, while MLB.com reports the Dodgers may be interested in the hard-throwing lefty. According to the report, Igawa, 27, has agreed to have Arn Tellem serve as his agent in any negotiations with an MLB team, so Igawa must think there's a good chance Hanshin will let him go. The Tigers may be waiting on two data points before potentially pulling the trigger on posting Igawa. First of all, Igawa is scheduled to start in Tuesday's Game Four of the MLB-Japan all-star series at Osaka, and a good outing there by Igawa would help his chances. Secondly, the Seibu Lions are scheduled to find out on Wednesday what the winning bid is for Matsuzaka; the higher the bid for Matsuzaka, the more likely Hanshin would be to post Igawa and get their own check. Igawa went 14-9, 2.97 in 29 starts for Hanshin this season, with a 1.10 WHIP and a 194-to-49 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 209 innings. Igawa won the CL strikeout title for the third time in six seasons, and he won the pitching triple crown and league MVP honors back in 2003."

2006-11-04 13:51:32
76.   thinkblue0
Starting Turiaf would be a mistake.

One of the things most people look past is how important that 6th-7th men are. If your second squad stinks then you're in trouble. That's why a lot of teams have players that probably should start come off the bench as a spark plug for that second unit.

This Lakers team is deep and I can't believe everyone isn't excited. Bynum is only 19 and if he actually played a lot of mins there'd be no doubt that he'd average a double double...at NINETEEN. Insane.

Walton is very sporadic, but he's also that guy who does everything on the court and doesn't need the ball every time on offense. That's why I'd kill to have Kirilenko on the Lakers...that guy literally does everything but doesn't need to shoot every time.

As far as the rest of the team I don't see any big glaring problems. I almost wish Kwame wouldn't even come back and we'd just stick with Bynum/Turiaf. I don't see why we re-signed Cook with Kwame, Bynum, Turiaf, Radmanovic etc already on the roster.

I think a real wild card this year could be Farmar. Phil is known for rarely playing rookies but Farmar is actually seeing some action and he's looked good so far. I'm at the point where I'd play just about anyone to get Smush off the court.

2006-11-04 13:52:51
77.   thinkblue0
with a 1.10 WHIP and a 194-to-49 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 209 innings.

Those numbers definitely interest me.

2006-11-04 14:13:11
78.   Fallout
74 D4P

My opinion is that the Giants have quite a dilemma on their hands. They don't want Bonds to pass Aaron in another uniform but they cannot allow Bonds' self rule to distract the team and ruin the authority of the new manager. I think that if Alou was still the mgr then Bonds would be signed and he would be allowed to do as he had done in the past. But, with a new manager the Giants want to change things and cannot allow Bonds to call his own shots and have Bochy lose respect.

2006-11-04 14:17:43
79.   Linkmeister
Cross-posted from the Griddle:

For those interested in Hawai'i Winter League Baseball, it's live-streamed here:

http://www.iamhawaii.com/

2006-11-04 14:30:13
80.   Greg Brock
78
I have to believe the Giants have already decided how much they're willing to pay Bonds, if at all. Can you envision Bochy, during the interview, saying "Oh, Bonds? Yeah, whatever you guys decide to do is fine." I'm sure the Bonds dilemma has already been decided.
2006-11-04 16:30:51
81.   Fallout
80 Greg Brock

At those times when Bonds didn't make himself available to pinch hit or take the field he not only looked like a jerk, but it also made Alou look weak and even inept.

Can you envision Bochy, during the interview, saying "Oh, Bonds? Yeah, whatever you guys decide to do is fine."

Not really.

2006-11-04 17:50:52
82.   Vishal
[81] exactly his point. i kinda hope bonds stays a giant. he's so fun to hate, and his defense is atrocious.
2006-11-04 17:56:01
83.   LAT
I love that the Giants have let this leak out. It accomplishes some many good things. It scares off other teams. It undermines any fan support for Barry in SF. Sends the message that if he does it again they will not protect him. And all the above drives down his price.

One more thing, I get to vindictivly enjoy it.

2006-11-04 17:57:46
84.   LAT
Sammy Sosa contemplating a comeback so he can get to 600 HR. Did Mr. 3000 finally come through on his Netflix list?
2006-11-04 18:01:03
85.   LAT
One more thing, this disclosure regarding Barry's recent conduct and Sheffield's recent comments are reminders that generally jerk pro atheletes do not change despite what their agents or marketing companies say.
2006-11-04 18:47:13
86.   Daniel Zappala
It's still very early, but so far this Lakers team is by far the most exciting (for me) in years. I like Bynum, Walton, Farmar, and Turiaf, Evans is a great pickup, and Odom is playing great. They are scoring a ton. They are far more interesting to me than the days of Shaq-Kobe-and-whoever-we-can-sign.
2006-11-04 18:51:41
87.   Bob Timmermann
I believe USC has found the cure for what was ailing them.

I would find the UCLA-Cal game more interesting if Cal weren't wearing its really, really, really ugly uniforms.

2006-11-04 19:02:37
88.   Uncle Miltie
86- you have to look at strength of schedule. The Warriors are mediocre at best and the Sonics are projected to be one of the worst teams in the West. The Suns are a very team. The Lakers look like no more than an 8th seed with this current cast of talent.

Kobe- the best player in basketball. You obviously build around him.
Odom- get rid of him, he's a bum. Very talented physically, but there's not much above the neck.
Walton- he has really turned into a solid player. He has improved his shooting since he entered the league. Will always be liability on defense because of his lack of quickness.
Evans- very nice pickup, great athlete, should be a solid contributor.
Turiaf- a decent energy player, sometimes plays dirty.
Bynum- decent big man, but his talent is being overestimated by the masses. He seems like a hard worker, but he's not especially skilled for a big man.

In conclusion, get rid of Odom and build around Kobe.

2006-11-04 19:08:28
89.   Ken Arneson
87 I would complain that it's hard to be a fan of a team with really ugly uniforms, but I became an A's fan in the 70s, so I guess that's not really true.
2006-11-04 19:34:12
90.   thinkblue0
Odom- get rid of him, he's a bum. Very talented physically, but there's not much above the neck.

this is a joke, right?

Odom's averages: 28 pts, 9 boards, 7 assists, 1.3 stl, almost 3 three's per game.

Yes, it is early...but all averages combined, he was ranked about 20-25 OVERALL in the nba last year. To say he should go is simply misguided.

Bynum- decent big man, but his talent is being overestimated by the masses. He seems like a hard worker, but he's not especially skilled for a big man.

He's nineteen...barely. NINETEEN. Jeez...give him a year or two and we'll have one of hte most dominant centers in the game. He's more than holding his own as a teenager against the other big men in the league.

Turiaf- a decent energy player, sometimes plays dirty.

Huh? Since when is hustling playing "dirty"? Turiaf is a spark plug off the bench who crashes the boards and plays awesome defense...he's far more than "decent energy player".

2006-11-04 19:34:44
91.   Vishal
[87] the new golden ones? i like them. i also like the 70s A's unis too though.
2006-11-04 19:37:02
92.   ToyCannon
I've now seen Lamar's two best games, his debut with the Clippers and Tuesday night. I have a theory that the new no bitching rule will help him concentrate on basketball because he has been one of the biggest whiners in all of basketball. Now that he can't put any energy into whining he may be able to focus more on basketball. He has the skills and has always been able to score at will when he takes the ball to the basket. For him, it has always been about focus and being aggressive. Anyone who doesn't think he or Bynum aren't athletic aren't watching the games or are clueless about what an athlete is. This is an exciting Laker team. The only Laker I don't like at this point is Kobe which still makes it hard for me to be a Laker fan but at least I won't be rooting against them this year like I did last year.
2006-11-04 19:43:04
93.   Bob Timmermann
Cal had perfectly good blue home uniforms. The gold ones make them look like Oregon wannabes. No need for that.
2006-11-04 19:45:15
94.   D4P
I can't help but think Cal copied Oregon, and I can't help but wonder why
2006-11-04 19:48:22
95.   Greg Brock
Go Bears. With all due respect to Bob, Karl Dorrell needs to go. He may not be the entire problem, but he sure as hell isn't any part of any solution.
2006-11-04 19:51:35
96.   D4P
Bob is no doubt gathering up the Karl Dorrell effigies as we type
2006-11-04 19:51:59
97.   Vishal
the oregon uniforms are gross, but cal's are at least nice solid blocks of color instead of the terrible pattern they have. and our yellow/gold tint is a much nicer shade than theirs. i like ours.
2006-11-04 19:58:13
98.   Bob Timmermann
At least I've received due respect.

Are there any logical candidates to replace Dorrell that UCLA would be willing to pay? I don't think so.

2006-11-04 20:22:26
99.   Fallout
92 ToyCannon
This is an exciting Laker team.

I hope so...its been only 3 games. When/if Mihm comes back they s/b even better.

2006-11-04 20:44:08
100.   underdog
I was hoping folks could lay off any "Odom is a bum" type statements until at least a little further into the season. Not only is he off to a good start but, you know, his infant son died of SIDS this year, which is a horrible tragedy. But I guess sports is sports and business is business, so, whatever. But personally, I'm rooting for him to do well this year, beyond just being a Lakers fan.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-11-04 20:47:04
101.   PlayTwo
84: Either that or he's found a supplier of HGH.
2006-11-04 21:11:56
103.   Greg Brock
98 You suppose that any coach willing to take the job for low money would do a worse job than a coach who has already shown himself to be completely inept.

I'm sure Steve Kragethorp at Tulsa, Paul Johnson at Navy, or Mike Leach at Texas Tech could do a better job than Dorrell does, even with the lousy wage that UCLA pays.

2006-11-04 21:19:43
104.   Bob Timmermann
I can't see Mike Leach coaching at UCLA and trying to run that offense with the personnel UCLA has now.

I think UCLA should install the triple option. Or maybe the single wing. Or the Notre Dame shift. Or the flying wedge.

2006-11-04 21:22:02
105.   D4P
Greg - Did you see my "Jimmy Eat World" recommendation...?
2006-11-04 21:23:04
106.   Greg Brock
104

I can't believe you think Karl Dorrell is a decent enough coach for UCLA. I can't believe you think that he has shown himself to be a head coach for any division I program.

Come on, Bob. Really?

2006-11-04 21:23:52
107.   Greg Brock
105 Yeah, I actually know a few Jimmy Eat World songs. They're actually not bad.
2006-11-04 21:26:15
108.   Bob Timmermann
106

Sorry, I'm just being contrary.

But I really do think that UCLA is never going to hire anybody who is going to make a difference.

And when they cheat, that can't even get that right. All DeShaun Foster got (we know of) was a nice car. But look at what Reggie Bush got! He got a house!

There needs to be a football version of Sam Gilbert for UCLA to get better.

2006-11-04 21:27:00
109.   PDH5204
Re the Lakers, Kwame played stellar defense last year against the best centers and power forwards in the league. So to say that the Lakers don't need him is simply absurd. Kwame doesn't otherwise need to be Shaq, as 15 and 10, and that stellar defense, will do just fine.

Re the athleticism, well, with all healthy, who matches up with Kwame, Bynum and Mihm up front, and Kobe and Lamar in the backcourt? Walton is otherwise already demonstrating what happens when the bigger fellow gets to post up the little guy, so what happens when the bigger fellow gets even bigger, and maybe even more athletic as well? How does a team defend against 4 who are 6'10" and up, with none of the 4 going by the name, Mr. Bradley? Going back to ToyCannon's remark in this respect, for their respective heights and/or weights, I consider all to be athletic. Re Lamar specifically, Kurt Thomas is no defensive slouch and Lamar had Kurt skaking his head.

And when they need double up down low, as they surely will, lest Kwame and Bynum simply eat them alive, then the team has Kobe, Lamar, Rado, and Cook to drain the open jumper, and while one or two might be stone cold at any given moment, all four won't be. And besides Lamar, two of the other three otherwise aren't exactly small fellows, and as that game 4 against the Spurs proved, Kobe can otherwise be counted on to sky high for that rebound when need be [and then deftly transfer the ball to the other hand for the put back over the Admiral].

Have some faith in your team guys, since they were a hair's breadth away from the Finals last year, and they've only gotten better. I am assuming here, of course, that the Lakers would have beaten the Clippers and then had the same success against the Mavs as they had during the regular season. But this last is the reason for hope, since the success against the Mavs was owing to the fact that the Lakers are as athletic as the Mavs and otherwise have an inside game and presence that the Mavs cannot match or surpass. With Kwame's continued emergence, and so too Bynum, so much the worse for the Mavs.

The Lakers otherwise held their own against the Spurs, or should I say that they gave as good as they took? I would expect the games against them this year to be literal wars [and I expect Kwame to do a good job on Duncan and otherwise pull down his fair share on the boards].

Game 1 this year proved the right in the strategy of last year, i.e., pound the ball in down low as Phoenix simply has no defense for the same [so expect some more head shaking on the part of some as the season goes on].

This promises to be a very entertaining season, and please let no one again disparage the moment by mentioning those seasons not to be remembered or spoken of.

2006-11-04 21:31:45
110.   D4P
Kwame doesn't otherwise need to be Shaq, as 15 and 10, and that stellar defense, will do just fine.

I'm sure the Lakers would be overjoyed with 15 and 10. Unfortunately, Kwame has career averages of 7.6 and 5.7, including 7.4 and 6.5 last season.

2006-11-04 21:33:18
111.   Jon Weisman
102 - I didn't feel a pang when DePo was fired. I was appalled. It was an entirely different sensation.
2006-11-04 21:33:55
112.   Improbable88
Roger Clemens is on the North Shore Honu radio broadcast.

His son, Koby, just single Dunlap to the 2nd.

Was kind of stunned when I started hearing his voice!

2006-11-04 21:40:31
113.   Greg Brock
108

I don't know that UCLA can hire a coach that can instantly turn them into a great program. I do know that their current coach is not anything close to quality.

Can we at least agree on that?

2006-11-04 21:43:33
114.   Bob Timmermann
113

Yes, yes we can.

I understand your frustration with Dorrell. My biggest beef with him is that the plays take so long to get in. And I can't say that's the QB's fault. That has to be the coach's fault.

You don't see USC wasting all of its timeouts and looking like it has no clue of who it wants to have on the field.

Even Stanford gets its plays in on time. Just get the plays in on time.

It's not too much to ask for is it?

2006-11-04 21:47:51
115.   Greg Brock
114
Getting the plays in on time, calling so many timeouts early, playing for field goals, having the personality of a wet mop.

Not a lot of stuff to inspire confidence.

2006-11-04 21:51:04
116.   Bob Timmermann
I do think the return of the single wing would be interesting in the short term.

I saw it run in high school once. It was a team coached by a guy who had played for Red Sanders. It worked pretty well for one half. Then the opponent, who knew how to pass, figured out how to defense the single wing in the second half and won easily.

2006-11-04 21:54:25
117.   Greg Brock
116 I'm afraid that if UCLA returned to the single wing, I would have to kill myself. Maybe we could just be a good football team, running the "I", Ace formation, and other such things. You know, just being good at playing football.
2006-11-04 21:55:38
118.   Bob Timmermann
A few years back, a grouchy guy sitting behind me, kept yelling for UCLA to put Matt Ware at QB and run the option.

I think he went to Loyola High.

2006-11-04 21:59:26
119.   Greg Brock
I always thought it was cute when Cade ran the option. Of course, he also threw for 325 per game.
2006-11-04 22:02:01
120.   Bob Timmermann
Karl Dorrell does not believe in trick plays. A trick play for Karl Dorrell is a play action pass.

See, I'm getting on board!

2006-11-04 22:05:06
121.   D4P
Karl Dorrell is no Frank Robinson
2006-11-04 22:10:53
122.   Bob Timmermann
Karl Dorrell needs a Thomas Boswell to write a glowing paean about him and how bad it will be when he gets fired.

All Karl Dorrell has is J.A. Adande writing about bad he is. And Greg Brock burning him in effigy.

2006-11-04 22:11:59
123.   D4P
All I've got is Andrew plotting my punishment, and Steve listening to Torii Hunter-related rumors on my behalf
2006-11-04 22:14:51
124.   PDH5204
110 D4P, as I said, Kwame's continued emergence, along the lines of some small measure of improvement over mid-March through April of last year. See: http://tinyurl.com/y8zsh8. As you can see, ole Stonehands wasn't so far from his 10 boards, and it was a case of not shooting so much and not hitting more free throws, since his FG % was over 50% for the period in question. So some slight improvement over mid-March through April of last year, and on a consistent basis, and he, the team, and we are there. If I otherwise had to liken it to a scene from a movie, then take Platoon, and so just as with Taylor now Chris, it's Mr. Brown now Kwame, since he simply wasn't the same player at the end as he was at the beginning. So just that small measure of improvement over mid-March through April, sustained over time, and he, the team, and we are there. I don't otherwise call the end of last year an aberration, but a rebirth following the prior life led as the No. 1 pick who purportedly failed the purported greatest player in NBA history [I take it that you can imagine who I hold responsible for the prior failing]. As I otherwise said, he did play some good d against the best centers and power forwards in the league, and for that reason alone the team needs him. I am simply looking forward to the more complete Kwame, and maybe then some can be overjoyed [as will I be].
2006-11-04 22:15:21
125.   Rocc
Ok, I know that guys may not really care...but the Rays have been connected to Mulder already.

That's just "wha?" worthy, for Rays fans, seeing as we're not used to players in the primes of their careers(or near them) to be contacted openly by the Rays.

2006-11-04 22:17:05
126.   Vishal
i once saw jimmy eat world opening for 2 other bands i liked in october 1998. they were good and all, but if you had told me then that in a few years they would be one of the most well-known rock bands in the country i would've laughed at you.
2006-11-04 22:17:18
127.   Andrew Shimmin
123- Good news: I already lost interest in my plotting. So, there you go.
2006-11-04 22:17:51
128.   Vishal
[125] to be fair, mark mulder is a bit of a reclamation project at this point.
2006-11-04 22:22:54
129.   Greg Brock
122 I would love to burn Karl in effigy.

Unfortunately, somebody around town has cornered the market on the effigy industry...

2006-11-04 22:24:30
130.   stubbs
is this bob timmerman at a dodger game?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Z69vHhaUY

2006-11-04 22:37:41
131.   Vishal
[130] that is almost the polar opposite of bob timmermann :)
2006-11-04 22:40:17
132.   Bob Timmermann
130
For the amount of money that those seats cost, that guy should have been ejected from the stadium. I would have ratted him out to the ushers and demanded his ouster.
2006-11-04 22:43:41
133.   Xeifrank
130. haha, they should team the guy up with Tommy Lasorda to make some commercials.
vr, Xei
2006-11-04 22:48:31
134.   Bob Timmermann
I've got some Odalis Perez effigies I can sell for real cheap.
2006-11-04 22:50:51
135.   Bob Timmermann
"I think we showed some growth in our offense and made progress," UCLA coach Karl Dorrell said. "We weren't smart in all circumstances, but we kept fighting. You have to score when you get a chance, and we didn't do that."
2006-11-04 22:51:12
136.   trainwreck
Thankfully I saw Borat today which softens the blow of the UCLA game.

It sucks Butch Davis is already off the market, but not like I expected UCLA to hire him. I wish we would be preemptive.

2006-11-04 23:22:03
137.   Greg Brock
Can somebody explain to me why the Tampa Bay Devil Rays wouldn't bid 90 million dollars for Matsuzaka, let him walk back to Japan, and ruin everybody else's chances?
2006-11-04 23:37:00
138.   Bob Timmermann
137
Scott Boras would hang the Tampa Bay front office from the highest yardarm. I would also imagine that there has to be some provision for bidding in bad faith.
2006-11-04 23:38:15
139.   dzzrtRatt
Speaking of DePodesta...I'm not keeping up with baseball news in real time, so I just noticed the story that the Padres are interviewing Dusty Baker on Monday for their managerial job.

Is DePodesta still on the payroll down there?

2006-11-04 23:42:19
140.   das411
118 - Matt Ware = awesome!
2006-11-04 23:47:06
141.   Greg Brock
138 Surely it would rile some people, but I don't see any scenario where Boras tells a client to turn down a D-Rays offer (if it's the best one) because he's personally angry with the organization for a move they made with respect to an entirely different player.

I've looked over quite a bit of the posting rules. It just looks like the highest blind bid wins. Whether or not a contract is agreed upon seems irrelevant. In any event, the entire posting system is a fraud anyway. Why not have a monster bid, followed by a non-starter contract to destroy the process anyway?

2006-11-04 23:51:14
142.   trainwreck
141
You should send them a letter.
2006-11-04 23:54:30
143.   Greg Brock
Dear Tampa Bay Rays,

Please ruin everybody else's chances of landing Matsuzaka. Post a huge bid, and offer 5 years, 4 million dollars. It will make everybody really angry, make a mockery of the posting process, and possibly send Big Stein to the hospital. That's what I call "Win/Win"

Sincerely,
Greg Brock, American Hero

2006-11-04 23:55:36
144.   Bob Timmermann
Why would a team make an obviously frivolous bid just to tick off its opponents? Would you want to do business with that team?
2006-11-04 23:55:45
145.   Greg Brock
I should add that I'm not really an American Hero, nor am I Greg Brock.

But hey, don't shoot the messenger.

2006-11-04 23:56:53
146.   Greg Brock
So, if a team offers you a trade that you really like, and will benefit you, you'll refuse to do the deal because they did something you didn't like in another instance?
2006-11-04 23:58:28
147.   trainwreck
144
That could be a good thing for the Dodgers.
2006-11-04 23:58:31
148.   Greg Brock
If I offer you Delmon Young for a side of rice pilaff and a ham sandwich, you'll turn the deal down because I blocked Matsuzaka?

I don't think that would happen.

2006-11-04 23:59:47
149.   Greg Brock
We're not talking about trading a player, while hiding an injury.
2006-11-04 23:59:59
150.   Vishal
i think i read that there is a bad faith provision. so, unless tampa bay pairs their $100 mill bid with a reasonable contract offer for matsuzaka, they can be pursued legally i think.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-11-05 00:02:08
151.   Vishal
[139] the "must interview a minority" rule in effect, maybe?
2006-11-05 00:02:18
152.   Bob Timmermann
148
I believe in MBG.

Management
By
Grudge

It's my new supervisory tool.

2006-11-05 00:02:50
153.   trainwreck
They should make a real offer then, because Mastuzaka probably would not want to play for them anyways. Offer an AJ Burnett type deal so it looks like they at least attempted it.
2006-11-05 00:04:44
154.   Greg Brock
From what I've read, the bad faith provision means that the offer has to be criminally bad. Offering a player who has never thrown a pitch in MLB 10 million dollars over three years does not strike me as such a deal.
2006-11-05 00:06:04
155.   Greg Brock
152
Management
By
Grudge

You're not really Roger Ailes, are you?

2006-11-05 00:07:58
156.   Vishal
[154] well, if i were boras and that happened and it were NOT considered bad faith, then i would talk to seibu and say "give us part of the posting fee too, or else we'll just reject it and you get nothing". and then tampa would have to pay the posting fee.
2006-11-05 00:09:15
157.   Greg Brock
156 All these Machiavellian machinations...

How much fun is this? It's like debate society, except fun!

2006-11-05 00:10:35
158.   Xeifrank
The posting rules seem a bit flawed as people have pointed out with the Tampa Bay scenario. I don't think a team would do something like that, but I guess it could happen. Why not do something where each team can negotiate with him, then the Japanese club gets a set percentage of the overall contract as it's player buyout. ie - The Yankees sign him for 5 years 80 million. If the buyout percentage is 30%, then the Yankees have to fork out $24mil to the Japanese club on top of the 5 years for 80mil to the player. vr, Xei
2006-11-05 00:12:18
159.   Greg Brock
If this is as simple as "Yankees post 30 million, Matsuzaka gets four years, 40 million," that's going to be very boring.

Unfortunately, I think that boring will win the day. Booooo!

2006-11-05 00:28:02
160.   trainwreck
Olney says Matsuzaka's services are between the Rangers, Mets, Red Sox, and Yankees. I would probably also put the Orioles in there because they like to throw money around.
2006-11-05 00:30:11
161.   Rocc
I wonder if Rocco Baldelli has opened his Sports Agent offices yet, seeing as he dropped Boras as his agent and personally negotiated his contract with the Rays.

I say to Mastuzaka, drop Boras and go with "Baldelli Incorporated"!

I'm wondering what the Devil Rays have ever done to anger Boras? We mentioned that we like Teixiera a few years ago in the Draft and Boras went haywire. Must drive him nuts that we hold the #1 and David Price/Wieters are probable clients for him.

2006-11-05 00:32:07
162.   Rocc
160. Must be a painful front office to be in, you get ignored by your owner when you try to make a trade and now you get money thrown at you?
2006-11-05 00:34:36
163.   Greg Brock
161
Boras has no use for your silly Tampa franchise. Boras only wants to deal with the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Orioles, Rangers, and Mets.

The D-Rays are doing a great job building a franchise without Scott Boras, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

2006-11-05 00:36:14
164.   Greg Brock
161
I have it on good authority that Scott Boras drinks the blood of innocent children*

*May not be true

2006-11-05 07:24:45
165.   Gen3Blue
I admit I haven't been checking in lately, but look at this, it almost cost me a chance to pile on to Scott Boras. 164 Greg it is absolutely true!
2006-11-05 07:45:38
166.   Izzy
I can't help wondering if there might be a connection between Ned's recent public thoughts on LaRoche and a possible Arod move. If LaRoche really is as stuck on himself as they are saying, you can see the front office wanting to send him off to New York-with a smile on their faces.
2006-11-05 09:17:03
167.   Bob Timmermann
Pondering other reasons why the phony outrageous bid for Matsuzaka scheme may not be feasible is that if a team tried such a plan (big outrageously high and lowball the contract) is that it's likely that MLB and NPB would prohibit such a team from participating in the posting process and may also keep that team from signing any other Japanese free agent as punishment.
2006-11-05 09:20:47
168.   Greg Brock
I wonder if MLB and NPB have the authority to ban teams from the posting process. If so, that would certainly make sense, I guess.

But it would totally ruin my little scheme!

2006-11-05 09:27:26
169.   D4P
I wonder if MLB and NPB have the authority to ban teams from the posting process

Seems like a necessary (though not necessarily sufficient) condition for a ban would be "violating a codified rule." If bidding high and lowballing the contract doesn't violate a rule, then I don't think a ban would be in order.

2006-11-05 09:28:09
170.   Andrew Shimmin
How many teams have availed themselves of the posting process, ever? Banning the Rays from bidding on high ticket Japanese talent seems a lot like banning me from having high tea at the London Ritz.
2006-11-05 09:30:01
171.   Greg Brock
For those of you dying to know, Tottenham Hotspur is beating Chelsea 2-1, with 22 minutes left.

Go Chelsea!

2006-11-05 09:32:57
172.   Greg Brock
And then John Terry gets red carded.

Boooooo!

2006-11-05 09:33:31
173.   Bob Timmermann
I think Commissioner Bud can pretty much do what he wants in this regard thanks to the antitrust exemption.

After all, wouldn't the whole posting process be a violation of antitrust law to begin with?

2006-11-05 09:45:30
174.   Greg Brock
Super Frankie Lampard just missed a point blank shot.

The announcer just said "Spurs fans will certainly remember the 5th of November if they can hold on and finally beat Chelsea." Nice work, Mr. Announcer.

2006-11-05 09:51:36
175.   Bob Timmermann
I think Chelsea should hire Karl Dorrell.
2006-11-05 09:54:54
176.   Greg Brock
175
That's funny, because I think UCLA should fire Karl, and get Alex Ferguson to quit Man U and coach football.

Same football, right?

2006-11-05 10:01:41
177.   Bob Timmermann
That's Sir Alex to you.
2006-11-05 10:03:45
178.   Greg Brock
There's an interesting story in today's NYT about the myriad shenanigans that can occur during the posting process.

http://tinyurl.com/yz694a

2006-11-05 10:04:12
179.   Bob Timmermann
OK FSC is now visiting Vassar. I think I will pretend to watch the NFL or take the first of a series of naps.
2006-11-05 10:05:02
180.   Bob Timmermann
178
Some bozo linked that on the Griddle last night around 7:45 pm.
2006-11-05 10:06:25
181.   Andrew Shimmin
179- Ray Kurzweil is on CSPAN2's In Depth, right now. You missed the first hour, but there are still two more!
2006-11-05 10:07:05
182.   Greg Brock
See, you skip out on The Griddle for one stupid day, and all of a sudden you think you can scoop the estimable Mr. Timmermann.

Just who does this Brock fellow (if that is his real name) think he is? Whatta jerkface.

2006-11-05 10:10:11
183.   D4P
Missing a story on The Griddle is bad, but giving the bozo who runs that blog "due respect" helps make up for it...
2006-11-05 10:10:33
184.   Greg Brock
Survivorman is on the Science Channel at 11:00. Watch Les Stroud take a smoke bath!

Or not.

2006-11-05 10:10:41
185.   Bob Timmermann
182
Your Karl Dorrell rage has blinded you. You must learn to let go.
2006-11-05 10:11:39
186.   Greg Brock
183 I gave Bob due respect when he was lukewarm on firing Dorrell. Now that he's joined the effigy party...
2006-11-05 10:14:34
187.   Bob Timmermann
186
I joined the effigy party after I had cornered the Karl Dorrell effigy market. I think of myself of as not a war profiteer, but more of a riotous mob profiteer.

I have pitchforks available too.

2006-11-05 10:18:53
188.   D4P
I heard a rumor that members of the Effigy Party are a bunch of flamers

(Gives high-five to T-Bone)

2006-11-05 10:22:52
189.   Greg Brock
In order to save myself from the inevitable run on Karl Dorrell effigies, I have made my own, having fashioned one out of straw, khaki pants, an old UCLA shirt, and a laminated playbook, stuck properly in the stomach region.

It's not my best work, but it will do for now.

2006-11-05 10:38:47
190.   Greg Brock
So, if the Dodgers aren't making a move on Matsuzaka, aren't interested in Soriano, and haven't been linked to any other marquee player, I wonder what, exactly, they plan on doing this fall. Aramis Ramirez, I guess...Barry Zito, I hope.
2006-11-05 10:39:18
191.   Bob Timmermann
The problem with burning a Karl Dorrell effigy is that after you douse it in gasoline, it takes too long to get set on fire because the people with torches can't seem to get them lit quickly enough.
2006-11-05 11:01:30
192.   das411
Who the hell is Karl Dorrell? Is this some sort of code for "Jim Tracy"?

190 - The Dodgers could be planning to offer a Barry Zito contract....to JEFF WEAVER!!!

2006-11-05 11:05:04
193.   Greg Brock
191
The real shame of this whole thing is that Karl Dorrell is, by all accounts, a truly good person and likeable guy.

Now we're talking about burning him in effigy. Do the honorable thing, Karl, and hit the bricks.

2006-11-05 11:17:07
194.   Bob Timmermann
193
But you've already whipped me up into a frenzy! I am highly susceptible to mob activity.
2006-11-05 11:22:06
195.   Greg Brock
194 You're right, what am I doing?

Karl must go! Karl must go! Karl must go!

2006-11-05 11:31:46
196.   thinkingblue
I have a bad feeling our offseason might be like what the angel's was last year, big talk, no action. Hope not though.
2006-11-05 11:38:30
197.   trainwreck
I am worried UCLA will go after Neuheisel.
2006-11-05 11:42:38
198.   Greg Brock
197 What's wrong with Slick Rick? You know, except for the whole office pool betting thing.
2006-11-05 11:49:18
199.   Rocc
163. Silly Tampa franchise? Ouch
2006-11-05 11:50:39
200.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Neuheisel is persona non grata with the NCAA. He's been Todd Bozemaned.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-11-05 11:52:23
201.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, it looks like Neuheisel won a suit so he wasn't Bozemaned, but if there's a blacklist for coaches, I'm sure he's on it.
2006-11-05 11:55:55
202.   Greg Brock
201 I believe you are referring to the "show cause" label, which has not been slapped on Rick. In fact, he was exonerated, and won his suit against UW.

Of course, I'm not sure anybody outside of a Floria Atlantic type school would hire him.

199 I was using Borasspeak. I like the Rays a lot. They have good talent, a plan, and I know a kid who pitches in the farm system. Tampa good, Boras bad.

2006-11-05 12:07:22
203.   twerp
Borasspeak...kind of interesting when you break the word down...and such vivid images
2006-11-05 12:18:58
204.   natepurcell
it seems that colletti and dodgers management has identified Zito as their #1 goal this offseason. Which IMO is fine. Although he will definately be overpaid at least he is young and and an iron man on the mound. moving to the NL hes going for a solid #2 at least.
2006-11-05 12:24:44
205.   trainwreck
This waiting period is like Borat's wife...

boring.

2006-11-05 12:24:49
206.   D4P
it seems that colletti and dodgers management has identified Zito as their #1 goal this offseason

Adding fuel to my "Ned is easily duped by players who are supposedly good, but are not that great upon closer inspection" fire.

When Zito pitches, Dodger fans can do the

O-ver-ra-ted...clap...clap...clap-clap-clap

chant.

2006-11-05 12:29:53
207.   trainwreck
Yeah, I would give Zito a three year deal, but that is not happening.
2006-11-05 12:33:08
208.   natepurcell
206

zito is the safest choice out of any player on the FA market.

2006-11-05 12:39:27
209.   D4P
I can't see the difference beween Zito and whomever would pitch instead of him if he weren't acquired being worth the opportunity cost of what his money could have been spent on otherwise.
2006-11-05 12:41:03
210.   Rocc
202 which prospect? One that we acquired from you guys or someone else?
2006-11-05 12:43:39
211.   Greg Brock
210 No, just a kid that I know. He's not considered a high ceiling prospect, just a kid who plays in the minors for the Rays.
2006-11-05 12:51:37
212.   D4P
Random thought of the day: should "spiking the ball" (e.g. to stop the clock) really count as an incomplete pass in a QB's stats...?
2006-11-05 13:08:48
213.   trainwreck
Is anyone going to see Let's Go To Prison, Will Arnett's first starring role in a film?
2006-11-05 13:09:09
214.   Greg Brock
Should heaving the ball aimlessly at the basket, some sixty feet away at the end of the quarter count against your field goal percentage?

Yup, it certainly counts if it goes in, so the spike should count as well. Unless it's a rhetorical question, in which case, this response does not exist.

Carry on...

2006-11-05 13:09:29
215.   Bob Timmermann
In the NFL, that procedure is considered "clocking the ball" according to the rules and it's counted as an incomplete.

However, in the NCAA, if a passer does that it registered as incomplete pass for the team, but not the individual.

The same rule applies to intentional kneeldowns by QBs in the NFL and the NCAA.

Also in the NCAA, blocked punts are charged to the team, not the punter. In the NFL, they are charged to the punter, but not credited as a punt attempt.

If you think I know arcane baseball scoring conventions, wait until you quiz me about football!

2006-11-05 13:11:58
216.   D4P
214
A difference (whether meaningful or not) is that the basketball player is presumably trying to make the long-distance shot, whereas the spiking QB is presumably not trying to complete a pass.
2006-11-05 13:14:22
217.   Bob Timmermann
216
But the play has to be accounted for in some way. The offense lost a down.

The difference is if you want to charge it to an individual or the team. The NFL almost always charges plays to an individual with the notable exception of QB sacks, which are just counted as team passing yards. In the NCAA, sacks are individual rushing yards.

I can hold court on the differences in counting first downs as well.

2006-11-05 13:16:49
218.   D4P
217
I'd rather charge it to the team than the individual. I also think 4-pitch "intentional walks" should probably be charged to the team rather than the pitcher.

I can hold court on the differences in counting first downs as well

By all means, hold away...

2006-11-05 13:17:53
219.   D4P
213
I'm kinda leaning toward not watching any Arrested Development cast members in their subsequent roles
2006-11-05 13:19:04
220.   Greg Brock
What would we do without you, Mr. Timmermann.
2006-11-05 13:21:02
221.   D4P
I also think 4-pitch "intentional walks" should probably be charged to the team rather than the pitcher

Or at the very least, accounted for as a separate stat

2006-11-05 13:21:24
222.   Bob Timmermann
In the NFL, you never get a first down if you score a touchdown on offense.

In the NCAA, you are credited with a first down on a touchdown, unless it was a goal to go situation.

If you get a first down and a dead ball penalty moves the ball up, the team is credited with just one first down.

I bet you were expecting something much more convoluted.

2006-11-05 13:22:24
223.   PlayTwo
No one should suggest, even as humor, the burning of a Black coach in effigy. I'm positive no offense was intended but it would be best not to make such a comment.
2006-11-05 13:22:54
224.   Greg Brock
219 Wow, your pain sure does run deep, doesn't it?

That's a shame, because Bateman has some really great roles coming up, including parts in Carnahan's Smokin' Aces and Peter Berg's The Kingdom.

2006-11-05 13:24:27
225.   Greg Brock
223 Effigies really aren't synonymous with racial persecution. Effigies are pretty universal.

Now, lynching on the other hand, would be way out of bounds.

2006-11-05 13:25:34
226.   trainwreck
We don't see Dorrell as a bad black coach, we just see him as a bad coach.
2006-11-05 13:27:12
227.   Greg Brock
I remember MLK talking about the day when African American coaches could be burned in effigy, side by side with White coaches.

I know that was in a speech somewhere.

2006-11-05 13:28:03
228.   Bob Timmermann
221
I do know that some stat services don't count the pitches thrown on an intentional walk toward the overall pitch count.

IBBs are already counted as a subset of total walks.

But pitchers don't issue a lot of IBBs. The NL leader was Jeff Francis with 15. The AL leader was Joel Pineiro with 13.

The single season record is 23, all done in the same era by late inning relievers in the NL: Mike Garman in 1975, Dale Murray in 1978, and Kent Tekulve in 1982.

Garman pitched in just 79 innings.

The fewest IBBs issued by a team in a full season since they started keeping track is 9 by the 1974 Dodgers. I went through and checked them and Walter Alston called for them all in the first half of the season and they didn't work out well, so he must have decided to just forget about the IBB and let Mike Marshall work out of the jam.

2006-11-05 13:28:05
229.   trainwreck
MLK would never endorse coaches who give up.
2006-11-05 13:29:58
230.   Bob Timmermann
After the 1967 game, UCLA students burned an effigy of Zenon Andrusyshyn, a kicker who missed a crucial PAT in the game.
2006-11-05 13:31:44
231.   Greg Brock
See? We burn Belorussians in effigy too.

We are very much equal opportunity effigy burners.

2006-11-05 13:31:48
232.   Bob Timmermann
That should be the 1967 USC-UCLA game in 230.
2006-11-05 13:34:08
233.   Greg Brock
I hope we go back to the home vs. home jerseys in the UCLA/Southern Cal game.

If we're going to get blown out, let's have some pretty pictures to look at.

2006-11-05 13:38:22
234.   trainwreck
I do not think we will get blown out by the Trojans. Well, I guess it depends on definition of blown out.
2006-11-05 13:43:46
235.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA - Jones 12 run (Andrusyshyn kick)
USC - Cashman 55 interception return (Aldridge kick)
USC - Simpson 13 run (Aldridge kick)
UCLA - Farmer 53 pass from Beban (Andrusyshyn kick)
UCLA - Nuttall 20 pass from Beban (kick failed)
USC - Simpson 64 run (Aldridge kick)
2006-11-05 13:46:00
236.   Bob Timmermann
I think UCLA will lose to USC, but not as badly as in past years. It's pretty hard to lose worse than 2003 or 2005. Probably not as close as 2004.
2006-11-05 13:48:06
237.   Bob Timmermann
Did mention that Andrusyshyn missed three field goals back in 1967 also? Two were blocked as was the PAT.

After that game Andrusyshyn gave up kicking soccer style and switched to the "conventional" style (which is really hard to do if you try it) and played for a long time in the CFL.

2006-11-05 13:49:38
238.   Greg Brock
I think 45-20 sounds about right this year.

Of course, we're young, this is a transition year, there are things we're learning as we go, blah blah blah

{bangs head on wall}

2006-11-05 13:50:10
239.   Bob Timmermann
Actually Andrusyshyn's PAT attempt that he missed was not blocked. He just missed it.
2006-11-05 13:51:00
240.   Bob Timmermann
238

So, two seasons from now on, who will finish with a better record? UCLA or Stanford?

2006-11-05 13:52:32
241.   Marty
That 1967 game was a very good game. I think I'm the only USC fan on this blog.
2006-11-05 13:53:29
242.   Greg Brock
240 Well, I'm pretty sure we'll still be better than the Cardinal.

Of course, if we're measuring ourselves against Stanford in two years, wow...

2006-11-05 13:54:46
243.   Bob Timmermann
242

I am a realist. Greg Brock is a dreamer. Marty has gone through successful hypnosis to block out the memory of Paul Hackett.

2006-11-05 13:55:39
244.   Greg Brock
234
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

Bob, I hope some day you'll join us...

2006-11-05 13:57:08
245.   Greg Brock
I don't expect to be a national power. I expect to play in the Rose Bowl two or three times a decade, and compete for a national title once every 15 years. I don't think that's unrealistic for a UCLA program.

Consarnit, I just want a decent coach.

2006-11-05 13:58:12
246.   D4P
I expect to play in the Rose Bowl two or three times a decade

As opposed to, say, 6 times a year...?

2006-11-05 13:58:25
247.   Bob Timmermann
I have no imagination.

For me the 2006 UCLA season is identifying the most likely QB who resembles John Barnes.

However, the absence of any receiver who resembles J.J. Stokes in the slightest makes that something of an academic exercise.

2006-11-05 13:59:53
248.   Bob Timmermann
Even Muir High and Pasadena High make it to the Rose Bowl every year.
2006-11-05 13:59:55
249.   trainwreck
We get too much talent to be on Stanford's level. Dorrell is not a terrible coach, he is just not a good coach.

UCLA with Dorrell will always just be mediocre.

2006-11-05 14:00:03
250.   Greg Brock
246 COME ON!
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-11-05 14:01:40
251.   Marty
Who is this Hackett you speak of?
2006-11-05 14:02:24
252.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Marty is hoping for a high school/college alma mater double at the Rose Bowl in 2006. If you include New Year's Day, Marty could go 3-0.

Unless I misremembered where Marty went to high school. If he went to Pasadena High, he can write down the L for this week.

2006-11-05 14:03:20
253.   Greg Brock
I haven't seen any evidence that Karl Dorrell is anything but a bad coach. Zero player improvement, horrendous clock management, timeout blowage, delay of game penalties, conservative play calling, total lack of imagination.
2006-11-05 14:06:27
254.   Marty
I went to Monrovia high school. And I've never set foot on the USC campus, unless the coliseum counts AS USC property.

For some reason, my father was a big USC fan even though he never even graduated from high school, so I became a big fan. I however, did manage to graduate from high school.

2006-11-05 14:06:52
255.   Bob Timmermann
253

You left out not knowing the new timing rules well either. In the Notre Dame game, Dorrell had the punter take an intentional delay of game. Then on the punt, Notre Dame was called for holding. If the delay hadn't been called, UCLA would have had a first down. However, Dorrell still thought it would be good to take the penalty because he thought the clock would start again.

Except it didn't. After a penalty, the clock goes back to the status it was when the previous play started. Since UCLA had been called for delay of game, the clock was stopped. So the penalty meant that you go back to the status quo ante, which was a stopped clock.

2006-11-05 14:07:45
256.   trainwreck
253
I am incorporating recruiting. He is a decent recruiter so we will never be as bad as Stanford. He is terrible as an in game coach haha.
2006-11-05 14:07:55
257.   Bob Timmermann
254
Well, I had you going to a San Gabriel Valley High school that started with an M at least.

The Coliseum isn't USC property ... yet...

2006-11-05 14:09:36
258.   thinkingblue
244.

that was way, way, way too easy.

2006-11-05 14:10:05
259.   Greg Brock
256 Eric Bienemy was a great recruiter. We'll see how Karl does without him. So far, they're 24th in the nation with this recruiting class. Since nobody has really committed, they're probably going to end up in the mid 30's. That's not good.
2006-11-05 14:15:12
260.   Bob Timmermann
Speaking of hypnosis to forget events, let's see how this goes:

Cal - FG Cooper 31
Cal - Ford 29 pass from Gilbert (Cooper kick)
Stanford - White 2 pass from Elway (Harmon kick)
Stanford - White 43 pass from Elway (Harmon kick)
Cal - FG Cooper 35
Cal - Howell 32 pass from Gilbert (2 pt conversion failed)
Stanford - FG Harmon 22
Stanford - FG Harmon 35
Cal - Moen 55 kickoff return (no PAT attempted)

2006-11-05 14:16:26
261.   Bob Timmermann
259
Probably not a good sign that Wendell Tyler's son committed to USC.
2006-11-05 14:17:03
262.   Marty
Elway was the Stanford quarterback for that game? I forgot that part.
2006-11-05 14:18:08
263.   Marty
It will be interesting to see if Tyler's son has the same issue with hot dogs as the old man.
2006-11-05 14:18:20
264.   trainwreck
259
Well they have very few scholarships to give out, so they are taking a ton of time to offer people. I like the recruits we have picked up so far. Brian Price is a 5 star DT and is one of the best players in the country. Carter is a 4 star running back with skill. Forcier is a 4 star rated QB. Ayers, Viney, Sloan, and Chandler all look like very good underrated 4 star recruits that we picked up.

We are also still in it with Everson Griffen and O'Dowd, even though we probably won't get either of them.

But yeah Dorrell sucks.

2006-11-05 14:19:52
265.   Greg Brock
261 Mark Tyler at Southern Cal.

It's reminiscent of Bibby and Walton going to Arizona. When the prominent legacy kids are going to the rival teams, well, says it all, doesn't it? Wendell Tyler's kid, for goodness sakes.

2006-11-05 14:20:35
266.   Bob Timmermann
262
Mr. Elway was none too happy after that game. He's still mad about it. Jon's mad about it and he wasn't even at Stanford at the time. I wasn't even in college at the time.

UCLA beat USC 20-19 the same day with Karl Morgan sacking Scott Tinsley (the greatest USC QB in the view of UCLA fans with Rob Johnson a close second) on a 2-point conversion with no time left.

2006-11-05 14:21:02
267.   Greg Brock
Everson Griffin is committing elsewhere. It escapes me where...wait...Georgia Tech, I think.
2006-11-05 14:22:20
268.   Bob Timmermann
I've seen Marc Tyler play in high school. He is incredibly fast, but he is not high in the maturity department. He is quite the trash talker on field and gets flagged a lot.
2006-11-05 14:22:48
269.   trainwreck
I heard he was most likely going to USC.
2006-11-05 14:23:48
270.   trainwreck
I want UCLA to have better recruiting, but I do not think we are bad that in area. Just making sure you know I have no love or faith in Dorrell haha.
2006-11-05 14:25:30
271.   Bob Timmermann
Wendell Tyler lives in the Antelope Valley, but during the school year, he lives with the Clausen family as the Lancaster-Westlake Village commute is not an easy one.

I think there are only a few Notre Dame fans on DT and I'm pretty sure that Jimmy Clausen will be the focus of a lot of animus from many people here.

2006-11-05 14:25:53
272.   Greg Brock
I have many reasons to dislike Karl Dorrell's tenure as head coach. In the interest of fairness, he's done a good job as a recruiter.

Of course, the players don't seem to get much better (See: Lavin, Steve).

2006-11-05 14:27:19
273.   Greg Brock
Yeah, I find it hard to openly root for the failure of 18 year old kids, but I make an exception for Jimmy Clausen. Something about that lad rubs me the wrong way.
2006-11-05 14:31:02
274.   Bob Timmermann
Jimmy Clausen is already 19 years old if that makes you feel any better.
2006-11-05 14:31:59
275.   trainwreck
I do not like Taylor King and while I hold no personal animosity to Kyle Singler I really want Duke to fail miserably next year. Even more than I usually do.
2006-11-05 14:32:47
276.   Greg Brock
274 It does. Thanks!
2006-11-05 14:32:59
277.   trainwreck
*Singler, but I really want...
2006-11-05 14:37:15
278.   Greg Brock
I have yet to hear an adequate reason why the Chargers don't wear these gorgeous uniforms as their regular jerseys. Best uniforms in the NFL, by far.

Of course, they bear a resemblance to other football unis I can think of...

2006-11-05 14:43:24
279.   trainwreck
Because they can sell them for more money if they are special and it just gives them an extra jersey to sell.
2006-11-05 15:55:33
280.   das411
Wow this place definitely empties out on Sundays now! I think it's time to go pick a fight with the Banterers...
2006-11-05 16:05:13
281.   Vishal
[227] brock, that line made my day.

[262] how could you forget?? that it happened to elway is the 2nd best part about The Play, heheh.

2006-11-05 17:05:39
282.   Bluebleeder87
brock, that line made my day.

i'm kind of creeped out by that Vishal

2006-11-05 18:13:37
283.   Bluebleeder87
please see 227
2006-11-05 18:45:36
284.   twerp
282 283 Please don't take 227 literally, as it sounds like you are. Read 223, then see a very important distinction drawn in the response in 225. Then see the humor in 227 in that context. :)
2006-11-05 19:00:27
285.   Greg Brock
Hey, does anybody here miss herman as much as I do?

Hello? Anyone?

2006-11-05 19:08:17
286.   Bluebleeder87
herman 285?
2006-11-05 19:15:43
287.   twerp
Writer thinks spending on free agent pitchers may get reckless pretty quickly===

http://tinyurl.com/yhqfun

2006-11-05 19:30:41
288.   Bob Timmermann
If you're visiting here from LA Observed:
http://tinyurl.com/ynbpxk

Sorry, but the Gagne comments got hijacked by angry UCLA football fans.
It happens.

We will no longer ask for any effigies. We are swtiching to the Texas high school tradition of putting up a "For Sale" sign on the coach's lawn.

2006-11-05 19:37:39
289.   Greg Brock
Yeah, for some reason, the idea of placing signs on somebody's lawn strikes me as worse than burning them in effigy. Maybe it's the whole "they are coming on to my property and violating my privacy" thing.

And hey, who doesn't love a good effigy burning.

2006-11-05 19:45:30
290.   Bob Timmermann
Is this the work of Greg Brock?
http://www.bruinsnation.com/story/2006/11/5/122014/711
2006-11-05 19:46:35
291.   trainwreck
We could give pink slips to voodoo dolls.
2006-11-05 19:47:20
292.   trainwreck
Greg Brock's best friend is HomeBruin.
2006-11-05 19:47:38
293.   Greg Brock
Sorry Bob, but I do post over at BN, but that is not my work.

I use lots of swears over there. I'm not proud of it, but it is what it is.

2006-11-05 19:57:52
294.   D4P
I use lots of swears over there

That's fine, as long as you don't use hyperbole when something less will suffice...

2006-11-05 20:08:30
295.   twerp
Bob, what do you know about Akinori Iwamura, power hitting 3B, Yakult Swallows?

A Boston Globe item I can no longer link to said the team might be about to post him. Said the Red Sox, among others, were interested. Said he also could play other positions, including CF, I think. He may have played for Japan in the WBC.

Has anyone connected with the Dodgers even mentioned him?

2006-11-05 20:12:30
296.   trainwreck
I heard the Phillies really want him. He can play second base as well as third and maybe even some shortstop.
2006-11-05 20:13:42
297.   trainwreck
He has a good bat, but strikes out a lot if I remember right.
2006-11-05 20:32:24
298.   Bob Timmermann
297

I would be surprised if Iwamura would be all that great. He does K a lot. He'd be better than Nori Nakamura. But that's a low standard.

2006-11-05 20:35:18
299.   D4P
Speaking of low standards: does anyone else remember Jon Lovitz' "lower your standards" routine on SNL?
2006-11-05 21:12:54
300.   twerp
More on Iwamura, cobbled together from a couple sources==

Yakult Swallows have officially posted Iwamura, JapanBall.com reports. Iwamura, considered the best 3B in Japan and a starter on its WBC squad, hit .311/.388/.543 in 145 games for Yakult this year, with 32 HR, 27 2B, and 77 RBI (8-for-9 in steal attempts, 128-70 K-W ratio in 546 at-bats). 27-year-old slugger in his prime, some projections indicate that he could post a .850-.900 OPS in the Majors. He was a five-time Gold Glover at third in Japan

The Red Sox, Phillies, Padres and Indians are all said to be interested in bidding for rights to negotiate exclusively with Iwamura, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports. Yakult has a working agreement with Cleveland; that should not affect the bidding for Iwamura's rights, but it might ease negotiations with Iwamura if Cleveland turns out to be high bidder.

Iwamura in a recent interview indicates that he'd be willing to convert to 2B, SS, or even CF if needed. 

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-11-05 23:00:02
301.   trainwreck
Nooooo! Ron Washington was named the manager of the Rangers.

http://tinyurl.com/uvn8k

2006-11-05 23:00:47
302.   trainwreck
No one seems to be around on Catfish Stew to be sad with me.
2006-11-05 23:11:54
303.   trainwreck
Or here.
2006-11-05 23:27:32
304.   Uncle Miltie
I'm more angry than sad. I know Billy had no intention of making Washington the manager but it still sucks that the A's are losing him. I am happy for Washington that he is finally getting the opportunity to manage.
2006-11-05 23:39:08
305.   trainwreck
Gammons believes we will sign Schmidt and Maddux. If those ever turn out to be true does that mean Chad to start in the pen or we trade Penny?

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