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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Pending Financing, Dodgertown Recedes into History
2006-11-15 15:27
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

I've been to Dodgertown, felt the spirit there. Let the history awe me.

But I'm not going to come down on the Dodgers as they get ready to move their Spring Training facility to Arizona. As is the case with Brooklyn, many more people express their love for the Dodgers in Vero Beach than actually showed up to the games.

Maybe life is moving too fast for me to be as sentimental about as many things. The move doesn't come without a cost, but I'm willing to embrace the idea of building new Spring Training history, and of allowing those who haven't been able to journey to Florida a taste of the warm Spring Training life, Dodger-style. (Even Vin Scully agrees.)

And maybe I don't have the right to be sentimental anyway, because if I did object to a move like this, I'd have to object to the Dodgers coming to Los Angeles. And I happen to be very glad they came.

In any event, here's the latest news:

The Glendale, Arizona City Council formally approved a partnership today to create a new Spring Training facility with the Dodgers and White Sox, straddling the Glendale and Phoenix city borders.

Funding still has to be negotiated with the Arizona Sports and Tourism Authority. In the meantime, here are some proposed amenities:

  • Two major league practice fields per team
  • Four minor league practice fields per team
  • 42,000-square-foot team clubhouses
  • Workout fields
  • Parking to accommodate 5,000 vehicles
  • A private developer will create more than one million square feet of commercial, office, retail and dining mixed-use development, which will include a 4-star hotel property and possible 18-hole golf course

    Update: At 6-4-2, Rob McMillin illustrates how this deal is only written in pencil:

  • First, the state has only $45M to spend on a single combined facility.

  • Second, the White Sox, the Dodgers' proposed partner in the new shared facility, would have to find another team with "equivalent economic impact and similar drawing power" to fill their stadium in Tucson. That would be tough, since the Sox bring in snowbirds.

  • Third, the Cleveland Indians have expressed interest in moving to Goodyear, Ariz., which would put them in competition with the Dodgers and White Sox for those same dollars.

    It may well end up that the Dodgers have to pay for their Arizona facility on their own, or wait a few years for more money from the state to appear.

    * * *

    I'm reminded to make sure everyone got to see T.J. Simers' lovely (yes, I said lovely) column on Ross Porter in the Times today.

    With his J.D. Drew column earlier this week, Simers is 2 for 2 this week on the Dodgers.

  • Comments (458)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2006-11-15 15:44:59
    1.   bigcpa
    Moving west doesn't bother me nearly as much as having to share a facility. Shared facilities have zero charm. DePo never would have allowed this. :)
    2006-11-15 15:49:40
    2.   D4P
    Random OJ Simpson update:

    Simpson has failed to pay the $33.5 million judgment against him in the civil suit. His NFL pension and his Florida home cannot legally be seized

    I wonder how long he can get away with not ponying up.

    2006-11-15 15:51:50
    3.   dan reines
    wonder how long he can get away with not ponying up.

    i'll start the bidding at twelve years, five months.

    2006-11-15 15:54:03
    4.   Greg Brock
    I'm beginning to think this OJ person is a bad guy.
    2006-11-15 16:00:34
    5.   scareduck
    As I mentioned here

    http://6-4-2.blogspot.com/2006/11/pickoff-moves_15.html

    I think there may be less here than meets the eye. There's too many teams wanting to move in, not enough dollars to go around (this year), and one of those teams will have to move to Tempe (the Indians have a deal with Goodyear, but it expires soon). I'll believe it when I see them break ground, not that I think that's impossible.

    2006-11-15 16:01:33
    6.   Jon Weisman
    I share a good amount of your skepticism, Rob.
    2006-11-15 16:03:52
    7.   still bevens
    So would this switch to the Cactus league be 1-2 years in the future or 4-5 years?
    2006-11-15 16:06:22
    8.   Linkmeister
    Re: the Simers column

    I find it unconscionable that the McCourts wouldn't even call Porter to tell him he was fired. I've had to let people go occasionally, and common courtesy dictated that I do it face to face with explanation.

    2006-11-15 16:08:16
    9.   Blaine
    I've been a Dodger fan for over 20 years and I had never been to Vero Beach until this last June, and I was in town for a completely different reason.

    I would be willing to make a long weekend trip to Arizona for Spring Training, which is what I think that the Dodgers management wants.

    By the way, even though there was nobody else at Dodger town but me and some guy working on the sprinklers, it was totally awesome to spend a few hours just cruising around the grounds and think about the history of what had been there. But again, I could never afford to make that trip with my family. Glendale I could make it to.

    2006-11-15 16:31:50
    10.   bhsportsguy
    This news will probably mean like going to New York to see a game at Yankee Stadium before it closes down, going to Vero Beach will become something to do too if Arizona becomes a reality.
    2006-11-15 16:41:58
    11.   scareduck
    5 - Tempe, fooey, that should have been Tucson.
    2006-11-15 17:30:56
    12.   bhsportsguy
    Jon - Am correct to assume, according to Los Angeles Magazine, you are on their list of 122 influential figures in L.A.

    If so, congrats, and if not, than fooey for a magazine that can't decide on whether to put a UCLA or USC song girl on the cover.

    2006-11-15 17:31:17
    13.   King of the Hobos
    Following the Burrell talk in the last thread, Rosenthal says the Phillies have signed Wes Helms for $5.5-6 mil over 2 years, likely to be their starting 3B. DeRosa $13 mil, 3 years; Blanco $5.25 mil, 2 years; Helms $6 mil, 2 years, it can't be a good sign when backup players are making this much. Our current bench of Anderson, Martinez, Saenz, and Repko will be making a combined $3 mil, the same as Helms, who is essentially a younger Saenz, defensively and offensively.
    2006-11-15 17:35:02
    14.   bhsportsguy
    It would probably be best to ignore the money, okay aside from 50 million to just talk to Scott Boras, but view it like it was 2 years ago when the Russ Ortizs and Kris Bensons got big contracts. Everything is going to be overpriced, heck even Ramon Martinez looks like a bargain.
    2006-11-15 17:40:59
    15.   Steve
    Was it the Cubs that gave Henry Blanco five million dollars?
    2006-11-15 17:41:51
    16.   Steve
    I just looked it up. Wow.
    2006-11-15 17:49:24
    17.   das411
    Hobos, $6m for two years is a BARGAIN to get Abe Nunez out of the lineup!

    14 - Seriously, this market is making the ARod winter look sane, isn't it?

    2006-11-15 17:59:47
    18.   Telemachos
    Are any other OSX Safari users seeing all-italic text?
    2006-11-15 18:02:23
    19.   trainwreck
    I agree with Greg, we should just sit out of the free agent market.

    Now I might have to actually root for us signing Soriano so we do not trade any young pitching.

    2006-11-15 18:16:35
    20.   trainwreck
    OJ Mayo signed a LOI to USC.
    2006-11-15 18:22:00
    21.   Bob Timmermann
    Bowling Green vs. Miami on ESPN2 is an aesthetic pleasure in my book.
    2006-11-15 18:22:34
    22.   trainwreck
    http://tinyurl.com/ygss4r

    Frank Thomas looks to be going to the Blue Jays, so I guess our hated rival Barry Bonds could end up an Athletic.

    2006-11-15 18:28:05
    23.   saltcreek
    22
    Bonds and Bradley on the same team......that would amount to chaos
    2006-11-15 18:30:20
    24.   Bob Timmermann
    22
    Unless of course the Padres are successful in signing Bonds.
    2006-11-15 18:34:05
    25.   natepurcell
    what kind of sucks for the payroll is that we are going to have close to 14mil in dead salary for 2007. i have:

    cruz buyout of 300k
    mueller salary of 4.5
    odalis perez money sent to KC of 8mil
    gagne buyout 1mil

    2006-11-15 18:35:45
    26.   D4P
    21
    How glossy is your book, Bob?
    2006-11-15 18:37:56
    27.   D4P
    25
    Plus another $6.6 million for Bomko and BJ
    2006-11-15 18:41:13
    28.   natepurcell
    27

    BJ can be nontendered. i already included bombko in my burrell deal.

    2006-11-15 18:44:49
    29.   Steve
    But he could be tender if you used enough barbeque sauce.
    2006-11-15 18:48:12
    30.   twerp
    Given the money so far, would anyone want to speculate how much Mantle, Mays, Koufax, Gibson, Musial, Marichal or others might make now as free agents?

    Are there that many zeros on a calculator?

    2006-11-15 18:48:44
    31.   D4P
    barbeque sauce

    Texas or Carolina? (Please be Texas...Please be Texas...)

    2006-11-15 18:53:05
    32.   Jose Habib
    18

    Yes, I am.

    2006-11-15 19:03:26
    33.   trainwreck
    Rotoworld claims Blue Jays signing of Thomas may mean they will deal Wells.
    2006-11-15 19:10:04
    34.   natepurcell
    would you trade Penny in a centerpiece for Burrell?
    2006-11-15 19:15:10
    35.   StolenMonkey86
    34 - No. The Phillies would probably not take him either, since their objective is to dump salary.
    2006-11-15 19:15:40
    36.   StolenMonkey86
    I'd trade Brad Penny for Vernon Wells, though
    2006-11-15 19:25:14
    37.   das411
    WOW South Park is finally good again!!!
    2006-11-15 19:26:05
    38.   D4P
    Vernon Wells' numbers look a lot like Carlos Lee. Lots of power, not great at getting on base much, and not great on defense. That's seems to be what's available this year.
    2006-11-15 19:35:38
    39.   natepurcell
    okay im almost done with my "what i would do if i was Ned Colletti" offseason plan.

    i will release it in details soon.

    2006-11-15 19:56:38
    40.   Greg Brock
    39 No need. A spy already leaked it to me.

    It's in my Nate file.

    2006-11-15 19:58:49
    41.   natepurcell
    40

    you probably already knows what it says. alot of the ideas have already been floated on here.

    2006-11-15 19:59:21
    42.   Greg Brock
    BYU is just launching 25 foot 3's against the mighty Bruins.

    They are going in.

    2006-11-15 19:59:48
    43.   natepurcell
    it only included one high priced free agent signing!
    2006-11-15 20:00:32
    44.   Greg Brock
    41 Well, between that and the hackers I employ to gather info, yes, I have a pretty good idea.
    2006-11-15 20:01:50
    45.   natepurcell
    wow...

    While it's uncertain whether Thomas' deal is for three years or two with an option, a source said the total value could exceed $30 million.

    big hurt to bluejays deal. 30mil is insane.

    2006-11-15 20:02:38
    46.   Greg Brock
    45 I want no part of this insanity.
    2006-11-15 20:03:04
    47.   D4P
    45
    Beane got him for 500k.

    How much are you planning to give Fasano, Purcey...?

    2006-11-15 20:04:21
    48.   Steve
    Stanford and UCLA are showing off the PAC 10's usual promise a little early this year.
    2006-11-15 20:05:07
    49.   Bob Timmermann
    46

    The Susan Powter School of baseball management I see.

    2006-11-15 20:07:59
    50.   natepurcell
    How much are you planning to give Fasano, Purcey...?

    fasanos property of the yanks. if they non tender him, then around .750k

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2006-11-15 20:07:59
    51.   trainwreck
    UCLA needs to run some more offense through the Prince.
    2006-11-15 20:08:54
    52.   Bob Timmermann
    There's actually a crowd at Pauley Pavilion for an early season game. The last few years a game like this would have drawn 5000 people.

    But what's with all the points? What happened to the 20-17 halftime scores?

    2006-11-15 20:11:09
    53.   trainwreck
    52
    There were even rumors the game was sold out.

    They turned out to be false.

    2006-11-15 20:12:33
    54.   Greg Brock
    52
    Amazing how a monster season and the promise of success leads to support in the program.

    I wish that extended to foo...awe, you know where I was going with that.

    2006-11-15 20:13:08
    55.   WellsforKemp
    There are several interesting aspects to this article from the Phillies web site that suggests the Phillies may have made an offer to Soriano. The Phils are scheduled to meet with Soriano's agent today. Perhaps more interesting is the discussion from Gillick that pitching additions may be more likely to come via trade than the free agent market.

    The Phills landing Soriano could be the best thing to happen to the Dodgers, not only keeping us away from Soriano but allowing us to trade for Burrell.......is there any way they would take Tomko and a B pitching prospect?

    2006-11-15 20:13:26
    56.   saltcreek
    38.
    Wells is a 3 time gold glover including one this year...he cant be that bad on D
    2006-11-15 20:15:01
    57.   trainwreck
    54
    I did not know UCLA played foosball.
    2006-11-15 20:16:16
    58.   natepurcell
    budinger just dropped 32pts in Arizona's home opener tonight.
    2006-11-15 20:17:31
    59.   Steve
    Well, Cal has Utah Valley St. down by 5, so PAC 10 fans will have something to get excited about.
    2006-11-15 20:20:36
    60.   WellsforKemp
    56 Wells is a 3 time gold glover including one this year...he cant be that bad on D

    Bobby Abreu posted a -13 Plus / Minus rating in 2005, making him the twenty-eighth-best rightfielder in baseball, and he held .492 of advancing runners, good for eleventh in the MLB. Despite his mediocrity, Abreu won the 2005 Gold Glove for Right Field

    2006-11-15 20:21:18
    61.   trainwreck
    Real cool BYU recruit actual basketball players that can shoot instead of freak athletes.
    2006-11-15 20:21:57
    62.   D4P
    Oregon has a 5'6" freshman guard who is averaging over 30 points per game
    2006-11-15 20:22:24
    63.   zappala
    It's entirely possible that the UCLA attendance is due to BYU fans. Mormons are everywhere! :-)
    2006-11-15 20:26:25
    64.   D4P
    Mormons are everywhere!

    16-kid households will do that

    2006-11-15 20:28:05
    65.   Uncle Miltie
    62- maybe, Oregon would let me walk on. I'm 5'11 and can dunk on a 9 foot rim. I'm pretty quick too (I was a sprinter in high school).

    My offseason plan includes giving Zito a 6 year deal for $15-16 million a year, trading for Pat Burrell, and letting Nomar walk.

    2006-11-15 20:28:12
    66.   Steve
    UCLA opens Wednesday at home against BYU before heading to the Maui Invitational on Nov. 20. After that, the Bruins have a favorable schedule, with eight of their next nine games at home, including their Pac-10 opener against the Washington schools. They don't hit the road again until January.

    Don't tax yourselves guys. Save some for tournament play.

    2006-11-15 20:30:30
    67.   natepurcell
    My offseason plan includes giving Zito a 6 year deal for $15-16 million a year, trading for Pat Burrell, and letting Nomar walk.

    mine includes 2/3 of those proposals.

    2006-11-15 20:32:42
    68.   Terry A
    Mine includes writing a 135-word sentence.

    See Greg's file for details.

    2006-11-15 20:32:44
    69.   natepurcell
    Meloan pitched 2.1 innings tonight. solar sox only have one more game remaining on their schedule so it seems like his AFL season is done.

    final line:

    18.1 IP, 12 Hits, 4 ER, 8 BB, 21 K's

    eh, decent.

    2006-11-15 20:34:03
    70.   natepurcell
    the UofA cats play this year is alot like the suns. High scoring, fast break, run and gun and absolutely no defense.

    except for Jordan Hill. Hes going to be a defensive beast.

    2006-11-15 20:34:46
    71.   Bob Timmermann
    Florida plays 16 of its first 17 games this season at home. The only road game is at Florida A&M. They do host Kansas and Ohio State in that stretch. The FAMU game is the only nonconference road game for the Gators.
    2006-11-15 20:35:12
    72.   trainwreck
    70
    So basically like last year.
    2006-11-15 20:35:55
    73.   WellsforKemp
    My offseason plan includes giving Zito a 6 year deal for $15-16 million a year, trading for Pat Burrell, and letting Nomar walk.

    I think we basically need to sign Zito but is anyone else scared that the Mets will either drive up the price so we really OVER pay? or likely outbid us

    2006-11-15 20:37:34
    74.   natepurcell
    72

    yes but more potential!

    2006-11-15 20:39:54
    75.   adraymond
    big game for those UofA Cats against my Cards in New York in few weeks. it's the first time i can remember louisville playing a big non-conference (not kentucky) game in some time.
    2006-11-15 20:40:16
    76.   zappala
    64 The average number of kids per family in my cul-de-sac is about 6 per household, several with 9. So 16 is stretching it. But there is indeed a sizeable contingent in LA.
    2006-11-15 20:40:57
    77.   Uncle Miltie
    70- Marcus Williams is a beast. I'm expecting a huge year for him in likely his last year at Arizona.

    73- I don't really care, Zito needs to be the Dodgers number one target. I think I'd even go up to $17 million a year. It's crazy money, but Zito is extremely durable and goes deep into games. He's the type player and person (team chemistry booster!) that you want leading your young pitching staff. He's like Derek Lowe with a brain, minus the alcohol problems.

    2006-11-15 20:40:57
    78.   Bob Timmermann
    At this rate, I expect Jon to boo Air Force flyovers at any sporting event he attends.
    2006-11-15 20:41:44
    79.   Bob Timmermann
    76
    Is Daniel so famous now that he just goes by one name?
    2006-11-15 20:44:17
    80.   adraymond
    big game for those UofA Cats against my Cards in New York in few weeks. it's the first time i can remember louisville playing a big non-conference (not kentucky) game in some time.
    2006-11-15 20:45:04
    81.   Daniel Zappala
    79 I use zappala to refer to collective opinions expressed by myself and all my 16 kids.

    The last time I was in Sicily, the restaurant served little patties of Zappala brand butter. So yes, it is a household name.

    2006-11-15 20:45:05
    82.   natepurcell
    Marcus Williams is a beast. I'm expecting a huge year for him in likely his last year at Arizona.

    Most of us agree here in tucson agree that is likely the case as well. Although it really isnt a big deal. We are getting Bayless and Jamelle horn next year, both are 5star recruits.

    I just dont want to lose budinger or McCellan after this year.

    2006-11-15 20:47:01
    83.   trainwreck
    Bayless will be a big deal because he is a big time shooter and driver and plays a smart basketball game, a problem for many of Arizona's big time athletes.
    2006-11-15 20:47:26
    84.   WellsforKemp
    I don't really care, Zito needs to be the Dodgers number one target. I think I'd even go up to $17 million a year. It's crazy money, but Zito is extremely durable and goes deep into games. He's the type player and person (team chemistry booster!) that you want leading your young pitching staff. He's like Derek Lowe with a brain, minus the alcohol problems

    I pretty much agree that the Dodgers need to concede and just agree to overpay, which I think Ned may do anyway. if we cant get Zito, Schmidt is a MUST..... I guess the bright side of this is the fact that we would then only be able to afford one starting pitcher thus, allowing Bills and Kuo to start

    2006-11-15 20:48:25
    85.   Daniel Zappala
    Evidence of world domination, or perhaps mafia ties in the dairy industry:

    http://www.zappala.it/

    2006-11-15 20:48:57
    86.   trainwreck
    84
    Or we could just give up on 07 since we would have to make so many bad moves for the future just to be competitive next season.
    2006-11-15 20:49:51
    87.   Bob Timmermann
    Don McLean can't remember anything about the 1982 UCLA-BYU game, but that was a good game. It was also the first time Bill Walton ever worked as a TV analyst. He hadn't had all of his speech therapy yet to correct his stammer, and he was a little reserved.

    A big play at the end of the game was a held ball. It was the first year that the NCAA got rid of jump balls for those and Walton was aghast at the new rule.

    That UCLA team had its season book ended by the Beehive State. They lost the opener at home to BYU and lost in the NCAA tournament to Utah and the dreaded Pace Mannion.

    2006-11-15 20:51:30
    88.   Bob Timmermann
    Not related to me:

    http://www.timmermann.com/

    2006-11-15 20:52:50
    89.   Daniel Zappala
    "Zappala' works for milk and milk-based products to be main protagonists of the Italian nourishment."

    I kid you not.

    2006-11-15 20:52:54
    90.   Bob Timmermann
    The owner of this company is related to me:
    http://www.timmermannimp.com/
    2006-11-15 20:54:15
    91.   Bob Timmermann
    89
    Sounds like an Italian version of Mr. Sparkle.
    2006-11-15 20:55:18
    92.   WellsforKemp
    86

    I just think we will still have a ton of flexability over the next few years with young and inexpensive Kuo, Billingsley, Elbert and then Zito long term

    2006-11-15 20:56:41
    93.   Daniel Zappala
    90 You must be really embarrassed. Your relatives need to learn the difference between the possessive and the plural.
    2006-11-15 20:58:22
    94.   Bob Timmermann
    93
    I'm sure Bill contracted the website design out.
    2006-11-15 20:59:29
    95.   Daniel Zappala
    91 For lucky best cheese pizza, use Zappala mozzarella.
    2006-11-15 20:59:36
    96.   D4P
    myself and all my 16 kids

    I knew it!

    2006-11-15 21:01:05
    97.   Bob Timmermann
    I really wish promos for UCLA football did not include clips of Geoff Strand.
    2006-11-15 21:01:15
    98.   Daniel Zappala
    Ah, Bob, that web site reminds me driving through Montana this summer, and the only radio station I could tune in was giving the cattle futures report.
    2006-11-15 21:01:31
    99.   Greg Brock
    95
    Zapala mozzarella banishes bad tasting cheese to the land of wind and ghosts.
    2006-11-15 21:02:02
    100.   Greg Brock
    Stupid missing p. Sorry Daniel. Typo!
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2006-11-15 21:03:20
    101.   Bob Timmermann
    98
    Bill is one of my diehard Cardinal fan relatives.

    I'm sure the World Series met with his approval. Despite what other people on Baseball Toaster thought.

    2006-11-15 21:08:33
    102.   berkowit28
    "Third, the Cleveland Indians have expressed interest in moving to Goodyear, Ariz., which would put them in competition with the Dodgers and White Sox for those same dollars.
    It may well end up that the Dodgers have to pay for their Arizona facility on their own, or wait a few years for more money from the state to appear."

    Why don't the White Sox just stay where they are then and let the Dodgers do the joint thing in Goodyear with Cleveland?

    2006-11-15 21:08:42
    103.   Daniel Zappala
    Was Bill lucky enough to attend a game?
    2006-11-15 21:10:30
    104.   Bob Timmermann
    103
    I don't know. The California Timmermanns and the Midwest Timmermanns don't get together too often. Especially since my father passed on.
    2006-11-15 21:11:22
    105.   D4P
    the Midwest Timmermanns

    aka the Frumpy Timmermanns

    2006-11-15 21:12:33
    106.   Daniel Zappala
    To re-live Mr. Sparkle again and again:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duqvXu3Wu0Q

    2006-11-15 21:12:37
    107.   Greg Brock
    If you would have told Jon and Daniel that Stanford football would win, and bball would get housed by 30 by Air Force...

    Well, let's just say it wasn't very probable.

    2006-11-15 21:15:40
    108.   Daniel Zappala
    I would have expected both the Stanford football and basketball teams to lose by 30.
    2006-11-15 21:21:11
    109.   D4P
    Where's Nate's master plan? He promised it 70 posts ago...
    2006-11-15 21:22:56
    110.   Bob Timmermann
    Now I have learned where Utah Valley State College is. It's in Orem! It has a satellite college in Heber City.
    2006-11-15 21:23:22
    111.   natepurcell
    i was going to post it when jon makes a new thread.

    and, its not done yet, im still trying to figure stuff out.

    2006-11-15 21:36:19
    112.   trainwreck
    Shipp looked like he came up a bit gimpy on those drives.
    2006-11-15 21:38:13
    113.   regfairfield
    111 Hopefully it's better than my sign Zito, wait 'till next year plan. I doubt a heart of the order consisting of Burrell, Kent and Craig Wilson/Aubrey Huff will threaten anyone.
    2006-11-15 21:42:18
    114.   natepurcell
    113

    Well thats true, but if ZIPs is somewhat correct, we should still have an awesome season watching our young players progress and produce at high levels.

    2006-11-15 21:43:03
    115.   D4P
    UNC played Winthrop tonight in mens' basketball.

    UNC was 11-19 from the line. Winthrop was 0-1.

    2006-11-15 21:45:38
    116.   Bob Timmermann
    UCLA's win ties the alltime series record with BYU at 11-11.

    The only other team on UCLA's schedule this year that they have a losing record against alltime is West Virginia (1-2).

    2006-11-15 21:47:32
    117.   Bob Timmermann
    UCLA shot 30 free throws and BYU shot 10, but that's not surprising since BYU was taking the ball inside.
    2006-11-15 21:58:05
    118.   Daniel Zappala
    110 I drive by UVSC every day on my way into work. It is also the new home of the Orem Owlz, who used to be the Provo Angels when they played at BYU's stadium. I hate the new name, but between the Owlz, SL Bees, and Ogden Raptors, we get our fill of minor league ball within an hour drive.

    Utah Valley is also called Happy Valley, but we're not too happy tonight.

    2006-11-15 22:00:27
    119.   Greg Brock
    I was very impressed with BYU. They look like a tournament team. Good shooters!
    2006-11-15 22:09:02
    120.   Bob Timmermann
    117
    That comment would have made more sense if I put the word "not" in there somewhere.
    2006-11-15 22:10:30
    121.   Andrew Shimmin
    Words I never thought I'd write: Tonight's Larry King Live was awesome. The first half I didn't see, but the part where Suzanne Somers has set off a round of international intrigue over a magical recipe for never getting old. Her detractors are, apparently, stooges of the big pharmaceutical companies, which is to say, they have medical degrees. Then, a known man tried to get in on the discussion, before Ms. Somers helpfully pointed out that he was a man.

    Just all around awesome. If you can't sleep and there's a replay on, you'll thank me later.

    2006-11-15 22:22:49
    122.   Greg Brock
    121 Sorry, but if Steve and Edie, Art Linkletter, or Pat Boone aren't on, I'm not watching.

    TONIGHT! FOR THE HOUR...ANDY GRIFFITH TAKES YOUR CALLS!

    2006-11-15 22:24:04
    123.   Greg Brock
    Seriously, skew a little older, Larry.
    2006-11-15 22:37:21
    124.   Uncle Miltie
    The Dodgers are moving closer to re-signing free-agent first baseman Nomar Garciaparra, 33, most likely to a two-year deal, according to major-league sources with knowledge of the negotiations.
    Foxsports/rotoworld

    I really didn't want Nomar back, but if it's for only two years then it's not as bad as I thought. I expect Nomar to get $11-12 million a year.

    Best case scenario if Nomar re-signs: Jeff Kent is traded for anything, Nomar moves to 2B, Loney starts at 1B, and Betemit and LaRoche battle it out for the 3B job.

    2006-11-15 22:38:24
    125.   Eric Stephen
    I know it's just speculation, so I apologize for feeding the beast, but rumor has it Nomar is close to returning to the Dodgers, possibly on a 2-year deal.

    Sources:

    http://tinyurl.com/yecruk

    http://tinyurl.com/ybdc6t

    2006-11-15 22:39:51
    126.   Eric Stephen
    You beat me to the punch, Miltie.

    I call Uncle.

    2006-11-15 22:42:19
    127.   natepurcell
    i dont really want nomar back. oh well.
    2006-11-15 22:44:17
    128.   Greg Brock
    Yeah. Loney, Betemit, LaRoche, Nomar, Kent.

    Somebody's got to go.

    2006-11-15 22:44:44
    129.   Greg Brock
    Better not be LaRoche or Loney.
    2006-11-15 22:44:57
    130.   trainwreck
    Me either. Where is he going to play? I rather not see Loney in the outfield.
    2006-11-15 22:48:10
    131.   Uncle Miltie
    Other possible targets for the Rays if they move Baldelli or left fielder Carl Crawford: Angels right-hander Ervin Santana, Dodgers right-hander Chad Billingsley or one of the Marlins' young starters.
    I love Billingsley, but this is Carl Crawford we are talking about. Obviously, a few other pieces would have to be added to the deal (NOT Broxton). I would sacrifice a cow to get Crawford in a Dodger uniform.

    Couldn't Elbert replace Billingsley soon? That would be hard to pass up...

    2006-11-15 22:53:36
    132.   Jon Weisman
    We just hosted a parent-teacher night for my daughter's preschool class. The discussion about one of the teachers, who did not attend, almost made the fury against Jim Tracy look like, well, child's play.

    The preschool director even used the word "chemistry" several times.

    2006-11-15 22:58:02
    133.   regfairfield
    131 I wouldn't place any bets on Elbert being ready earlier than 2008. If we lose Bills, we enter the season with Tomko and Hendrickson in the rotation. If something happens to Elbert, we're in trouble.
    2006-11-15 22:59:06
    134.   Bob Timmermann
    Do I think Jon's daughter is performing up to expectations? Well, she could be, but she still is in a situation where she colors outside the lines. You can't have a productive creative experience unless you color inside the lines. Am I disappointed that she hasn't been able to do this? Yes, but I think that the fault lies more with the parents than with the teacher.
    2006-11-15 22:59:28
    135.   Linkmeister
    132 Jon, that episode should be submitted to SI for its "Sign of the Apocalypse" or maybe its "They Said It" feature in the Scorecard section of the print edition.
    2006-11-15 23:00:21
    136.   Andrew Shimmin
    Chemistry in pre-school? The public schools really are doomed. . .
    2006-11-15 23:01:00
    137.   Linkmeister
    134 Oh, gee, Bob, don't give me that kind of opening.

    "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
    But in ourselves, that we are underlings."

    --From Julius Caesar (I, ii, 140-141)

    2006-11-15 23:15:07
    138.   StolenMonkey86
    124 - I say Kent for Marcus Thames. Kent and Sheff as teammates is worth the price of admission. I like Thames too
    2006-11-15 23:18:27
    139.   Bob Timmermann
    I hope people bet the over in the CSUN/Redlands game.

    The Matadors won 159-97.

    2006-11-16 00:21:57
    140.   Andrew Shimmin
    Meet the new world record holder for rattlesnakes in the mouth at one time (ten!), same as the old world record holder for rattlesnakes in the mouth at a time (eight).

    http://tinyurl.com/uma82 (there's a picture; fair warning)

    2006-11-16 00:38:32
    141.   trainwreck
    Dang I can only get 4. Back to training.
    2006-11-16 04:10:34
    142.   dan reines
    141.

    The trick, I think, is to put them in there when they're just little babies, and let them grow.

    2006-11-16 07:26:28
    143.   Daniel Zappala
    Why not move Loney to the outfield? With Drew gone, we need outfield bats, and signing Nomar puts a good bat at first, allowing Loney to move to OF. With Loney and Ethier set, and Anderson able to fill in, then the Dodgers just need a good CF. Or they could get a LF/RF and have Loney and Ethier compete for the other corner OF, plus Loney can always get some ABs at 1B, with Nomar sliding over to 3B or taking the day off.

    With the dearth of free agents available, I'd say Nomar is a good signing that gives the Dodgers a lot of flexibility.

    2006-11-16 07:41:19
    144.   Daniel Zappala
    Is Carl Crawford really that good? .830 OPS left fielder?
    2006-11-16 08:05:27
    145.   D4P
    I don't really get the fascination with Crawford either, other than that he's young. From what I can see, his OBP and SLG are heavily dependent upon his BA, and he doesn't really get on base all that much. I didn't calculate them, but I'm guessing his ISOs aren't particularly impressive.
    2006-11-16 08:06:53
    146.   D4P
    Nomar vs. Drew

    So, Depo took a lot of flack for signing "injury-prone" DJ Drew. Will Ned take the same flack if he signs Nomar?

    Average games/year 1999-2006

    Nomar: 109
    DJ: 118

    2006-11-16 08:12:35
    147.   D4P
    RBIs are a funny thing. Drew reached 100 in a season for the first time in 2006, and that number is no doubt a big part of the reason why he and Boras think he can cash in on the market. I'm sure Boras has an entire glossy spreadout in DJ's book devoted to his 100 RBI. But if I'm a GM, I'm looking at the following:

    DJ's ABs in the cleanup spot:

    2002: 8
    2003: 30
    2004: 61
    2005: 0
    2006: 302

    2006-11-16 08:16:53
    148.   Dark Horse
    146-The question's rhetorical, right? No, he won't take that flack even if Nomar spends the entirety of both seasons on the DL. Nor, for some reason, do I think he should. I don't think DePodesta should've either, but...I can't possibly be alone in thinking these straw man how-come-Ned-gets-a-pass-where-DePodesta-didn't arguments are the littlest bit tiresome. There are also defensible (not just reactionary) reasons DePodesta was pilloried. And since he's no longer our GM, it's as well to move on and be glad if we resign Nomar, so long as it's not for loads and loads of time or money.
    2006-11-16 08:18:45
    149.   D4P
    147
    I realized it might be a little more meaningful to look at the percentage of DJ's ABs in the cleanup spot, rather than the actual number of ABs. Here goes:

    2002: 1.9%
    2003: 10.5%
    2004: 11.8%
    2005: 0.0%
    2006: 61.1%

    2006-11-16 08:45:36
    150.   Johnson
    149
    RBIs are a counting stat, so number of ABs is probably not so inappropriate.
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2006-11-16 08:48:44
    151.   D4P
    150
    True, but just looking at the number of ABs in the #4 spot obscures the overall number of ABs, which is also relevant for RBIs.
    2006-11-16 08:54:01
    152.   ToyCannon
    D4P - you should start your own anti-boras blogg but as many have already stated, we get your point. The man doesn't have 45 employee's just so he can make the highest offers and wait for results. His clients have access to the best lawyers, investment counselors, physical therapists, call girls, and anything else a young millionaire will need. You never hear of a Boras client penniless after leaving his sport because he was screwed by his agent/manager.
    2006-11-16 08:58:38
    153.   D4P
    we get your point

    Well, in this case, my point was really about RBIs and their dependence upon position in the lineup. It just so happened that Boras was relevant to the discussion as well...But I'm trying to stop the Boras rant...And I'm trying to stop the Ned vs. Depo stuff as well...But it's just so darn tempting...

    2006-11-16 09:19:17
    154.   blue22
    145 - His contract is most appealing to me. He's signed for the next 4 years at about $29M (the last 2 years are club options).

    He's got some flashy skills, and he could be one of these guys whose talent overcomes his discouraging peripherals.

    It's not out of line to expect a .300 average, 60 extra base hits, and 60 steals to go with an .800+ OPS. If only he played a better outfield.

    2006-11-16 09:37:57
    155.   Jon Weisman
    153 - What lineup spot tends to get the most RBIs? I don't know.
    2006-11-16 09:49:40
    156.   D4P
    155
    I don't know either. But just looking at DJ's 2002-2006 numbers (a very small sample size to be sure), the correlation between his RBIs and %ABs in #4 spot was over 0.7, which is very strong.

    In general, my point was that some will say Drew's 2006 season was more impressive than his previous seasons because of his 100-RBI total. But, as I pointed out, 2006 was also the year where he had by far the most ABs in the #4 spot. It would be interesting to look at the % of ABs with runners on/in scoring position for different spots in the lineup, as a partial indicator of RBI chances. But I'm not sure if that info is available.

    2006-11-16 09:56:16
    157.   D4P
    Here are Drew's % of ABs with runners on base:

    2002: 42.7%
    2003: 44.6%
    2004: 47.5%
    2005: 40.1%
    2006: 51.2%

    So, not only did he get by far his most ABs in the cleanup spot, but he also had his highest % of ABs with runners on base (over half of his ABs came with at least one runner on).

    2006-11-16 10:00:29
    158.   50 years a Dodger Fan
    155 That was why I said we weren't losing 100 RBIs with Drew leaving. Whoever bats in his spot will drive about as many runs as he did. Kemp for instance, or even Ethier. It would be nice if one of you hyper-talented computer geniuses could substitute Ethier's at bats for Drew's over the course of the year and see if he wouldn't have driven in at least as many runs, given the same runners-in-scoring-position opportunities. Just my opinion...
    2006-11-16 10:02:17
    159.   ToyCannon
    I think the thing that everyone is missing with Crawford is his age. He's already accumulated almost 3000 at bats before the age of 25 in the major leagues and has improved every year. His OPS has moved from 670 to 830 during that time. If he continues the trend I don't think it is unrealistic to see a 900 OPS at age 27 going forward. This is not some slap hitting speedster, this guy has legitimate power and is built like a running back not a wide receiver. At his peak he could be a 25-30 HR guy with great baserunning skills and a superb LF. His stealing % is just about the best in baseball given the number of attempts(46/8 and 58/9) in the last two years.

    If we'd signed Hochevar we'd been in position to trade pitching for him but with our current pitching staff I can't see us making the deal unless Zito or Schmidt end up in our rotation. The current salary blowup for pitchers is going to backfire on baseball general managers when in two years they look back and see a mess of these pitchers looking very much like Pavano.

    2006-11-16 10:16:46
    160.   bigcpa
    If Drew took 35 walks instead of 90-100 you're talking another 15-20 RBI right there. I doubt 120 RBI and a .325 OBP would boost his asking price nowadays.
    2006-11-16 10:41:23
    161.   ToyCannon
    Lilly or Schmidt are the only two pitching free agents I'd like to see Ned go after.
    2006-11-16 11:06:32
    162.   bigcpa
    161 I'd put Lilly in the Meche/Padilla class. Any of these guys would make a nice #3 in front of Kuo, Bills.
    2006-11-16 11:18:04
    163.   blue22
    I'm a little afraid of Meche. He walks a lot, only started striking people out last year, and is most certainly a fly ball pitcher. And in this market, he won't come real cheap.
    2006-11-16 11:22:54
    164.   adraymond
    From ESPN Radio via mlbtraderumors.com:
    The Pads are close to sending Jake Peavy to Atlanta for Marcus Giles, Horacio Ramirez and Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

    Can't say that I would mind seeing Peavy leave the NL West.

    2006-11-16 11:27:45
    165.   blue22
    164 - Wow. Good trade for the Braves.

    Why are the Padres so eager to move Peavy? Wonder if it's his shoulder?

    2006-11-16 11:31:11
    166.   thinkblue0
    164-

    I'll tip my cap to Towers on this one...not seeing Peavy as much would put a hop in my step.

    Any rumors involving Flanders floating around today?

    2006-11-16 11:32:06
    167.   adraymond
    It really does seem strange considering the number of Peavy-like pitchers out there (very few). From what I heard at the end of last season, his shoulder was fine.
    2006-11-16 11:43:06
    168.   still bevens
    I dont get SD's stockpiling of catching prospects. Didn't they have 3 catchers on their roster last season (Piazza, Bard, some other dude)? They traded away their organizations top catcher to the Red Sox for Wells, now theyre picking up another one? I guess theyre not rock solid on the guys they have now other than Bard.
    2006-11-16 11:58:10
    169.   blue22
    168 - They'd be replacing Kotteras with Salty as the catcher of the future, with Bard and Rob Bowen holding down the fort with the big club. Obviously Piazza is gone.

    I feel better about their catching situation than LA's, which is woefully thin should anything happen to Russell.

    2006-11-16 12:02:00
    170.   dkminnick
    The Pads need a 2nd Baseman?

    Kent for Peavy!

    2006-11-16 12:05:05
    171.   ToyCannon
    Would love for us to pickup Zaun to backup Russ but I'm he'll get a full time platoon gig somewhere.

    162
    Meche and Padilla are fine as back of the rotation starters go but I'd hate to see us fork out the money for them. On the other hand I really think Lilly can be a front line starter who would thrive in Dodger stadium and the NL in general.

    2006-11-16 12:09:39
    172.   ToyCannon
    Seems like a small price to pay for Peavy given that Marcus Giles is free agent after 2007 and Salty was one of the bigger prospect busts of 2006 right after JtD.
    2006-11-16 12:21:11
    173.   katysdad
    Happy 31st Birthday Julio Lugo!

    (ducks)

    2006-11-16 12:28:37
    174.   Rocc
    Apparently, from one of the Rays Korean fans, the Rays are going to sign Hee-Seop Choi to a minor league deal with a NRI to Spring Training.

    We've got tons of 1B options already, does Choi bring anything to the table that gives him a viable chance at becoming our 1B?

    2006-11-16 12:30:43
    175.   D4P
    does Choi bring anything to the table that gives him a viable chance at becoming our 1B?

    We don't much about Choi around here...Was he that other guy we got in the Bill Murphy trade...?

    2006-11-16 12:32:51
    176.   Uncle Miltie
    174- he's a patient hitter whose power comes and goes. I've always thought of him as more of a gap hitter, but with his build, everyone expected him to hit 40 hr. His defense is pretty underrated. He has average range, but great hands. He does an excellent job of digging throws out of the dirt. I'd rather have him than Travis Lee.
    2006-11-16 12:39:31
    177.   natepurcell
    that peavy rumor is complete BS. it was made up by someone on the mlb braves message board and it just swept across the internet like wildfire.
    2006-11-16 12:39:39
    178.   Andrew Shimmin
    RIP Milton Friedman.

    http://tinyurl.com/yhw895

    2006-11-16 12:43:15
    179.   Robert Daeley
    174 The Cubs got Derrek Lee from the Marlins for Choi and a PTBNL. Ahem.
    2006-11-16 13:13:39
    180.   ToyCannon
    174
    In November of 2005 you would have found 90% of DT posters who felt that Choi was a better option for 1st base then Nomar given his production and price, including myself. Most of us have felt that if Choi was given 500 at bats he'd give a line around 260/350/490. He's a streaky hitter who gets most of his counting stats during his hot streaks but even in a slump he used to walk quite a bit. He was a huge fan favorite whose name gave voice to the best chant of 2005. What happened to him in 2006 is a mystery as he completely fell apart. Hopefully he doesn't go the way of Josh Phelps and finds his way back to the major leagues garnering full time at bats.

    Good luck with him, as Uncle Miltie said, I'd rather take a chance on him then have Travis Lee back.

    2006-11-16 13:55:49
    181.   Vaudeville Villain
    Answering the Carl Crawford question, I think the reason some people want to grab him is that the scouts think he's got developing power, and his numbers have climbed every year he's been in the league. He also figures to age well.

    Here's his OPS numbers by year, with his 2002 numbers removed because they were accumulated in 250 ABS.

    03- .671
    04- .781
    05- .800
    06- .830

    I'm still not all that enthused by him. His walk rate is not likely to ever be that great, and his OPS numbers are almost entirely dependent on his slugging percentage. He's also primarily a ground ball hitter, so unless he starts getting the ball in the air more often, I don't expect his power numbers to rise THAT dramatically.

    2006-11-16 13:56:34
    182.   Sam DC
    Boy, what is this place coming to? You toss a flaming Hee-Seop Choi right smack onto the middle of the table and you still can't stir up any kind of conflagration?

    Next thing you know, it'll be Jason Phillips Memorial Friday and Bob will be tearing up a little as he recalls that gamer Jason playing first base with a catcher's mitt just to save the team a few pennies on the extra glove.

    2006-11-16 13:58:04
    183.   D4P
    his OPS numbers are almost entirely dependent on his slugging percentage

    Which in turn seems to depend heavily upon his batting average (a la Andre Ethier)

    2006-11-16 14:02:29
    184.   Vaudeville Villain
    183-

    Right. I'm also a little skeptical of Ethier's ability to replicate last season's success.

    2006-11-16 14:08:03
    185.   D4P
    184
    His production had already begun to decline quite significantly in the 2nd half of last season.

    Pre-All Star: .352/.403/.545/.948
    Post-All Star: .277/.337/.429/.766

    2006-11-16 14:11:19
    186.   blue22
    184 - Including his late-season fall-off, his overall numbers ended up being not so impressive:

    His .842 OPS ranked 9th out of 12 NL LFers.
    His 162-game projection would give him 25 doubles, 15 HR's and 70 RBI's.

    If he doesn't improve on (or at least replicate) last year's numbers, LA is in trouble.

    2006-11-16 14:11:38
    187.   natepurcell
    185

    his second half numbers are skewed by his horrible september. he basically hit the rookie wall then since before this season, he has never endured or played in that many games before.

    july: .362/.407/.617

    august: .316/.339/.465

    september: .143/.311/.163

    ZIPS believes in ethier for next year. why cant you!

    2006-11-16 14:12:37
    188.   Jon Weisman
    182 - LOL
    2006-11-16 14:16:07
    189.   Uncle Miltie
    181- Crawford's power is clearly developing. He has more of a loft in his swing. Crawford is also extremely strong for a speedster. It's hard to see it because he wears thermal shirts. Crawford is 6'2 220. He's the best defensive left fielder in baseball. His arm strength is average (the only weak part of his defense). Crawford would make an excellent center fielder. Crawford's 25 years old and has improved a certain facet of his game every year. Before a late season slump, Crawford was slugging .500. Crawford is a phenomenal athlete (had scholarships for baseball, basketball, and football) who is turning his tools into actual production.
    2006-11-16 14:18:08
    190.   D4P
    187
    Andre's ZIPS' projections really aren't all that great.

    .296/.366/.463/.829, with 16 HRs and 72 RBI. Not horrible, but not really any better than his 2006 season, and probably not so great compared to other leftfielders.

    As I see it, those kind of numbers are kind of in between what I would expect from a #3 and a #4 outfielder...

    2006-11-16 14:22:11
    191.   Vaudeville Villain
    189-

    How do you figure that he's getting more loft in his swings? He actually hit more ground balls last year (06), then he did in either (04) or (05).

    He's clearly better than KLoft, but I would not trade very much for him, or at least not what TB is likely asking for.

    2006-11-16 14:23:33
    192.   natepurcell
    190

    and what is wrong with his current level of production compared to his salary? Nothing at all. all im saying is, some of you guys dont trust ethier to replicate last years numbers, ZIPS thinks he can using its historical data.

    Now you complain, "oh, but...his original numbers arent even that good."

    way to change the argument. Either way, the production combined with the 400k salary is worth it.

    2006-11-16 14:25:38
    193.   Vaudeville Villain
    192-

    His BABIP, even after his huge end-season slump, was still abnormally high though, wasn't it?

    How is ZIPS calculating its predictions?

    2006-11-16 14:30:21
    194.   natepurcell
    How is ZIPS calculating its predictions?

    minor league record, historical comps, future performance indicators such as walk rate, k rate, etc.

    its like BP's Pecota but just created by someone different.

    2006-11-16 14:33:17
    195.   natepurcell
    His BABIP, even after his huge end-season slump, was still abnormally high though, wasn't it?

    it was .348. which is still on the high side but not totally absurd.

    2006-11-16 14:33:29
    196.   Andrew Shimmin
    Would anybody (other than the fascistic D4P) not take, in a second, Ethier repeating his 2006? I would. I'd sell him if the price was right, but if he really is good for .296/.366/.463, ain't nothing wrong with that. Especially if he can move to right, to accommodate Burrell.

    Even if his final numbers last year were lucky BABIPwise, he's still young enough that he could reasonably be expected to improve luck-neutral. Ethier isn't a problem. If he gets flipped for something better, or if he doesn't, the kid's alright.

    2006-11-16 14:34:53
    197.   Uncle Miltie
    191- How do you figure that he's getting more loft in his swings?
    I watched him play...

    I saw about 30 Devil Rays games last year. Early in the season, Crawford was driving the ball. Instead the balls going into the gaps, they were going over the wall. Crawford seemed to realize that he had some untapped power and made minor adjustments to his swing. The results were great. This was despite that fact that Crawford was dealing with a pretty severe wrist injury. Later in the season, he seemed to tire down. He had more of a slashing-like swing. His power deteriorated. Instead of driving the ball, Crawford was slapping into the gaps. He was still able to accumulate a number of extra base hits, but the early season power wasn't there. I believe that Crawford has a lot of untapped potential. You really have to see him play to realize what a special talent he is.

    2006-11-16 14:38:11
    198.   D4P
    fascistic D4P

    Fascizzle, my nizzle

    2006-11-16 14:39:08
    199.   Andrew Shimmin
    I saw about 30 Devil Rays games last year.

    This is exactly why I don't gamble. Losing the kind of bet you must have, would be intolerable, to me.

    2006-11-16 14:43:07
    200.   Andrew Shimmin
    198- Decision day in the D4P household. Will he or won't he? Official start time looks to be 8:35, though I thought Earl was going to be 40 minutes long, too? Anyway, the world waits with bated breath. . .
    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2006-11-16 14:44:15
    201.   Rocc
    199. Ouch, we're not that bad...
    2006-11-16 14:45:27
    202.   D4P
    200
    I see that tonight's "The Office" is an hour long. Is it always an hour long, or is this just an Extra Special Episode...?
    2006-11-16 14:45:39
    203.   Steve
    201 -- So claimed countless thousands as you were rooking us blind over and over again.
    2006-11-16 14:50:02
    204.   Andrew Shimmin
    201- Well, you won't be forever, anyway. Heck, if Jackson, and Choi, and JtD all pan out for you, I might end up changing my allegiances.
    2006-11-16 14:51:58
    205.   Andrew Shimmin
    202- Forty minutes was what I saw, over and over, in commercials for it. I don't know why NBC does this, but every once in a while they make the shows longer. So. Bonus!
    2006-11-16 14:57:00
    206.   D4P
    Bonus!

    Don't believe everything you're told, Andrew. The extra time is probably comprised solely of commercials...Those sneaky fatherless-sons...

    2006-11-16 14:58:38
    207.   Jon Weisman
    This is tonight's NBC schedule, courtesy of NBC.com:

    8:00 My Name Is Earl
    8:36 The Office
    9:20 30 Rock
    10:01 ER

    Round those times off at your own peril.

    2006-11-16 15:04:03
    208.   Sam DC
    I would not want to be working the Tivo customer service phones tonight.
    2006-11-16 15:04:53
    209.   Bob Timmermann
    When NBC did this before, my DV-R handled it with aplomb.
    2006-11-16 15:07:18
    210.   Andrew Shimmin
    If they're just padding this episode with commercials, it will be an outrage of Beimelian proportions.
    2006-11-16 15:09:25
    211.   Jon Weisman
    210 - The amount of commercials over the three hours figures to be constant.

    I'm starting a new chat thread at Screen Jam soon.

    2006-11-16 15:23:52
    212.   D4P
    I'm starting a new chat thread at Screen Jam soon

    Sigh, looks like I'll be by myself again tonight...

    2006-11-16 15:47:53
    213.   Jon Weisman
    Looks like I ended up chasing people away from both sites.
    2006-11-16 15:53:20
    214.   gpellamjr
    212 Hey man, I'm here with you.

    On a daily basis here at OSU I run into jerks wearing Dodger hats, but who tell me they aren't Dodger fans. Today I ran into a very nice young man who, wearing a Dodger hat, is a real Dodger fan. We talked for some time, lamenting the Piazza trade. He didn't think Colletti should re-sign Nomar.

    2006-11-16 16:36:13
    215.   50 years a Dodger Fan
    This is what Drew opted-out for??? According to Ben Maller (Is he a lame duck?), someone is offering one million a year more plus one more year. Colletti probably would have done that, unless he had already made up his mind to "encourage" Drew to leave...
    The Red Sox aren't through yet. Multiple sources say they are set to sign free-agent outfielder J.D. Drew, the Phillies' old amigo, for a 4-year, $48 million deal
    2006-11-16 16:41:28
    216.   natepurcell
    this would be cool..

    2007 mlb draft

    20. Boston Red Sox (drew)
    21. Toronto Blue Jays (lugo)
    22. Los Angeles Dodgers
    23. San Diego Padres (maddux)

    4 straight first round picks. rad!

    2006-11-16 16:41:29
    217.   blue22
    215 - He's only received one offer, and it's already better than what he opted out for. Wait 'til the bidding really gets going. I'd say he's doing quite well so far.
    2006-11-16 16:42:06
    218.   blue22
    216 - What happens if (when) Boston signs both Lugo and Drew?
    2006-11-16 16:46:08
    219.   50 years a Dodger Fan
    216 Please don't mention that name again, he is a non-person.
    2006-11-16 16:47:34
    220.   natepurcell
    218

    we get their first round pick for drew and their second round pick for lugo to go along with 2 1st round compensation picks i think.

    2006-11-16 16:48:14
    221.   natepurcell
    Please don't mention that name again, he is a non-person.

    that non person is going to get us 2 draft picks.

    2006-11-16 16:51:43
    222.   50 years a Dodger Fan
    It will be the first decent thing he has done for us but it won't bring Guzman back...
    2006-11-16 16:53:58
    223.   StolenMonkey86
    A couple of NRI if anyone's interested, according to Dodgers.com

    C - Ken Huckaby, 35
    RHP - Travis Smith, 34

    Huckaby can throw people out at least:
    Career CS-att: 34-99 (.343 CS rate)
    2004-2006: 13-33 (.393 CS rate)

    He was originally a 22nd round draft pick in 1991 for LA and left after 1997 as a minor league free agent

    2006-11-16 16:54:38
    224.   Disabled List
    Drew's asking price is 4 years/$56 million, according to ESPN.com's Insider.
    2006-11-16 16:54:46
    225.   natepurcell
    222

    with the way guzman has been regressing, i might rather have the two logan white picked top draftees.

    2006-11-16 16:55:09
    226.   trainwreck
    Can't say I am surprised to see Drew as a Red Sox.
    2006-11-16 16:57:10
    227.   trainwreck
    If Drew does end up a Red Sox, imagine how he will feel if the the Red Sox fans get on him for his demeanor.
    2006-11-16 16:59:13
    228.   50 years a Dodger Fan
    i'm not crazy about any of the FA hitters. I'd rather see Colletti pull some magic and trade for Crawford AND Church. With Ethier and Kemp and maybe Anderson or Repko, our outfield would be set. Maybe sign Nomar for third and if LaRoche beats him out, then he relieves anywhere in the infield. Trade for Dave Ross and all we have to worry about is pitching.
    2006-11-16 17:01:07
    229.   StolenMonkey86
    228 - Dave Ross? Somehow I think Cincy is gonna keep him because he owns GABP
    2006-11-16 17:03:41
    230.   Robert Daeley
    We signed a couple of journeymen to minor league deals:

    http://tinyurl.com/yc46ls

    C Ken Huckaby and RHP Travis Smith

    2006-11-16 17:03:46
    231.   underdog
    Argh! I forgot to set my Tivo for The Office (I keep forgetting to add it to my list) and have a late soccer game after work. Damn. I expect you guys to reenact the episode for me later, verbatim, doing the female parts too. Thanks.
    2006-11-16 17:04:51
    232.   underdog
    230 The catcher sounds familiar...

    I {{heart}} Huckaby!

    No, but seriously, wasn't he halfway decent at one point? All field, no hit maybe...

    2006-11-16 17:06:18
    233.   trainwreck
    228
    I do not think we need both Crawford and Church if we are keeping Ethier and Kemp.
    2006-11-16 17:07:14
    234.   Andrew Shimmin
    220- Is Mark Loretta supposed to reup with Boston? He's a type A, so, if he doesn't re-sign, would we get their Loretta pick, plus their regular pick, or just their first and second round regular picks? What if they take Baez, too? If Boston helps screw up what's left to screw up of our six first round pick draft, there will be consequences.
    2006-11-16 17:07:22
    235.   StolenMonkey86
    232- basically. He's got a career batting line of .222/.256/.281, but he's a decent defensive catcher (39.3% CS over the last 3 years)
    2006-11-16 17:15:38
    236.   StolenMonkey86
    233- Church, eh? Probably a 20 homer guy over the season with decent ISO patience but also a lot of K's. But hey, perhaps after the success of Marlon Anderson, Colletti will decide to trade more with the Nats than with the D-Rays.

    Think they'd be interested in a veteran left-handed starter who had one of the best ERAs of a lefty in the American League last year?

    2006-11-16 17:59:31
    237.   Gen3Blue
    I know this is a bit off topic. But I just read the Vin Scully interview and was so glad he is going to keep going. I was reminded that there was a move at one point to try to make Lou Brock the father of the modern stolen base (Totally neglecting Maury wills). Does anyone else remember this.
    What was up, anyway?
    2006-11-16 18:01:26
    238.   Gen3Blue
    236 Is he under 30?
    2006-11-16 18:50:31
    239.   King of the Hobos
    In other minor league free agent news, the Dodgers re-signed Wilkin Ruan, but lost Ben Kozlowski, who signed with the Yankees.
    2006-11-16 18:54:32
    240.   student of the game
    Regarding the interest in Drew, Los Angeles GM Ned Colletti said the Dodgers had not filed tampering charges against any club. However, he did not rule out the possibility that Los Angeles would in the future.

    http://tinyurl.com/yj4run

    2006-11-16 19:30:58
    241.   natepurcell
    12. Jonathan Meloan, rhp, Mesa (Dodgers)

    The Dodgers held Meloan back in extended spring training due to a minor ulnar nerve problem, and he didn't make his debut until May at low Class A Columbus. But considering the missed time, Meloan didn't skip a beat, finishing the season in Double-A with 3-1, 1.90 numbers with a remarkable 91-16 strikeout-walk ratio in just 52 innings across three levels. Meloan sits in the 92-93 mph range with his fastball, topping out at 95. But the 22-year-old has an impressive repertoire overall--with a hard, late-biting 88-90 mph slider, a power 80-82 mph curveball and an above-average changeup. A 2005 fifth-rounder out of Arizona, Meloan can sometimes recoil backward too much in his delivery, which throws off his command. The Dodgers tried throwing him on consecutive days in the AFL--once getting him in three games in a row--to see how he responded in hopes he can battle for a bullpen job in 2007.

    Meloan and his Scouting report from the AFL.

    2006-11-16 19:31:25
    242.   MSarg29
    The LA Times is reporting that the Dodgers are set to re-sign Nomar to a multi year deal.
    http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodgers17nov17,1,5032447.story
    2006-11-16 19:42:55
    243.   Rocc
    Pardon my asking, but what does "JtD" stand for? I keep seeing that when Guzman is mentioned, always wondered what it meant.
    2006-11-16 19:45:52
    244.   natepurcell
    243

    Joel the Destroyer. it was our nickname for him when he was, you know, part of our future plans.

    2006-11-16 19:50:44
    245.   natepurcell
    i dont want nomar back! arghhh.
    2006-11-16 19:51:30
    246.   Rocc
    244- He's a doubles hitter in the Dominican, did his power leave with Beltre's "juice"?
    2006-11-16 19:59:37
    247.   natepurcell
    246

    his power was severely lacking last year as well. Hes an enigma. I just saw his dominican stats since he is on the same team as kemp and i was checking up on him. It seems like Guzman still doesnt wanna work on his plate discipline with a .22 ISOd and a 3:17 bb/k ratio in 94ABs. At the Ks are reasonable.

    2006-11-16 20:00:20
    248.   ToyCannon
    No, he just doesn't seem to center the ball in real games compared to his BP sessions which were legendary. He's a huge man, you'll laugh when you see him and realize he was a SS at AA.
    2006-11-16 20:00:50
    249.   D4P
    i dont want nomar back!

    I don't either.

    The deal would be for two or three years and would call for a significantly higher base salary than he received last year, when he played for a guaranteed $6 million and earned another $2.5 million in incentives based on plate appearances

    Colletti has high regard for players who want to wear the Dodgers uniform rather than simply seek the biggest contract on the market.

    2006-11-16 20:05:22
    250.   Sam DC
    249 Well, I look forward to the reports of the bigger contract offers that Nomar turned down to stay with the Dodgers.
    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2006-11-16 20:07:22
    251.   Terry A
    Colletti has high regard for players who want to wear the Dodgers uniform rather than simply seek the biggest contract on the market.

    Whereas all other GMs like to pay a lot more for players who really want to be elsewhere.

    2006-11-16 20:13:31
    252.   D4P
    250-1
    Yeah, no doubt Nomar is giving a large "hometown discount" to stay in LA...
    2006-11-16 20:14:34
    253.   trainwreck
    Why waste Loney's defense in the outfield? I do not like re-signing Nomar to play first at all, especially if we give him three years.
    2006-11-16 20:20:15
    254.   willhite
    If Nomar's contract is for three years, I'm thinking that Loney might be on the way to another city.

    I'd rather see Nomar at third and Loney at first.

    Anybody know how good an outfielder Loney is?

    2006-11-16 20:20:43
    255.   Sam DC
    I keep reading this and having a hard time believing Bob didn't write it.

    http://tinyurl.com/yzrun5

    2006-11-16 20:20:49
    256.   Terry A
    253 - 'Zackly.

    Because Nomar "wants to wear the Dodger uniform," the Dodgers are giving him a multiyear deal they otherwise wouldn't do, they are limiting the incentives because they think he'll try to play hurt but could in fact send him to the DL more frequently, they are giving him first base to minimize his injury risk, and they are essentially blocking a very promising and apparently ready first base prospect.

    Good thing this is all just a hypothetical.

    That said, this really isn't all bad. Nomar is useful, but unless he's headed to the outfield (or another infield move is made), he is not what this team needs to spend its money on right now.

    2006-11-16 20:25:42
    257.   trainwreck
    If I thought Nomar could actually play the outfield with out breaking down even sooner, I would be fine with it, but putting him at first is stupid. He has limited range at first and as the season progressed got much worse at scooping the ball because of his injuries. Why block our prospects? Nomar's body just seems to be breaking down.
    2006-11-16 20:27:32
    258.   trainwreck
    Kemp is the only guy who I think needs a stop gap at his position. I think the other guys are ready to take over.
    2006-11-16 20:27:49
    259.   Uncle Miltie
    252- yea, it will be for $12 million a year with the Dodgers rather than $12.5 million with the Orioles. I'm going to be pretty angry if this moves forces Loney to the bench. If Nomar played 2B and Kent was traded, then I'd have no problem with this deal.
    2006-11-16 20:28:50
    260.   Terry A
    (Sixty-nine word sentence up there. Poorly written though it is, let this sentence serve as evidence of my plans to drop a 140-word bomb by the start of the new year. I am the Iran of run-on sentences.)
    2006-11-16 20:33:35
    261.   Steve
    If signing Nomar means not signing Lee or Soriano, then opportunity cost alone makes it money well spent.
    2006-11-16 20:36:23
    262.   trainwreck
    Ned basically said they won't even try for Lee, but we will still go after Soriano. The question is will the Angels or Phillies offer more money for him.
    2006-11-16 20:37:18
    263.   Robert Daeley
    The fact that Nomar could play any of the positions mentioned, along with his bat, makes him valuable -- never mind the not-insignificant PR value.
    2006-11-16 20:43:08
    264.   trainwreck
    263
    He could play those positions, but will probably just be stuck at 1st base that is the problem. If they had him be a super utility guy it would be a lot better.
    2006-11-16 20:44:55
    265.   D4P
    The fact that Nomar could play any of the positions mentioned

    Is that really a "fact"? He wasn't very good at 1B, and the outfield would probably be too rough on his body (not to mention that he has never played there before).

    2006-11-16 20:52:49
    266.   Robert Daeley
    265 Define "not very good." He had 4 errors in 1124 total chances, a field percentage of .996. And if I recall correctly, at least a couple of those could easily have been assigned to whoever was throwing to him.
    2006-11-16 20:53:58
    267.   D4P
    266
    Well, I was looking at his Rate2 of 93. Granted, Loney's was 88...
    2006-11-16 20:55:45
    268.   LA Native
    I am the only one who thought Nomar played a pretty good 1B. He has a soft glove and dug out balls pretty good. His range isn't what it used to be, but it isn't worse than most 1st baseman and it isn't all that important at that position anyway.

    We should keep Loney however. Can use him in the outfield even if that isn't ideal and he would still get 30 games at 1st base when Nomar needs time off and when Nomar DH's. Also, that "assumes" Nomar stays healthy all year, which is all but impossible. We need the insurance, and I don't really like Kent at 1st as it blows a hole in the lineup. Still need 2 outfielders. I'd like Alou and Wells personally. If Alou breaks down, we go with Kemp

    2006-11-16 21:01:19
    269.   trainwreck
    267
    Nomar had far more games than Loney, so it works much better.
    2006-11-16 21:02:03
    270.   CanuckDodger
    This is ridiculous. Nomar should not be brought back at all, but if he is to be brought back, it should be for no more than a year, and to play somewhere other than first base. If Colletti is saying Nomar is too brittle to play anywhere but first, then that is an argument to not bring him back period.
    2006-11-16 21:03:36
    271.   Jon Weisman
    268 - Rightly or wrongly, the conventional wisdom was that Nomar played a great first base, so you weren't the only one.
    2006-11-16 21:05:15
    272.   Steve
    As long as Arte is lowering beer prices and has Bill Plaschke to satisfy, there is no way he will let us outbid him for Soriano, so I don't worry about him very much. Carlos Lee was just attainable enough to be dangerous, so so much the better to 262. Ethier should play left field. The end.
    2006-11-16 21:06:58
    273.   ToyCannon
    Defensively Nomar was just fine in his 1st year at 1st base but he just isn't enough of an offensive upgrade over Loney anymore to be worth the cost. I hate to agree with the majority of DT posters here but this is probably a bad deal.

    Loney should be able to handle RF okay since he's got average speed and a pitchers arm but if we were to enter the year with Nomar at 1st and Loney in RF our power would start to rival the pop gun Jerry Remy Angels of yesteryear unless Ned reels in a slugger for LF or CF.

    2006-11-16 21:14:28
    274.   D4P
    he just isn't enough of an offensive upgrade over Loney anymore to be worth the cost

    Yeah, but Ned did the math, and found that

    Nomar's offense + Desire to wear Dodger uniform >= Nomar's salary - Loney's salary

    2006-11-16 21:34:44
    275.   LA Native
    I'll have to see how much of a hometown discount Nomar gives us for me to determine exactly what I think of it. Given what some of these other contracts might go for, in the end it might not be a bad deal. I am worried about Nomar's second half, as he was pretty bad. However, overall he was our heart and soul, and probably a real good guy to have in the clubhouse for the young guys.

    As for Drew, I won't miss him much even though we now need someone just like him now. I just hated him having to sit down every fifth game. His power was a little disappointing this year as well. We'll see how we replace him though. I am going to hate even more giving up solid young guys like Broxton to replace him.

    2006-11-16 21:37:04
    276.   D4P
    As for Drew, I won't miss him much even though we now need someone just like him now. I just hated him having to sit down every fifth game

    Will you hate having Nomar sit down every fifth game?

    2006-11-16 21:47:47
    277.   LA Native
    276

    Not really. Nomar is a gamer and will play hurt. With Drew, it was sometimes a wonder. I have to question his passion. With Nomar, he is willing to take a discount to come back. Drew opted out his contract to go after a little bit more money. At least with Nomar sitting down, we should have Loney to sub in. Also, I am under the assumption that we are getting Nomar for less than the $11M we were paying Drew.

    BTW, that contract was the worst thing Depo ever did. Either way, the Dodgers were going to lose - If Drew was terrible we were stuck with a huge contract. If he did great, he opted out, and now that he did about as expected (maybe even a little worse) he still opted out. If it was to see how he would like Pasadena and LA, that is why players can demand trades. Boras really pulled one on an inexperienced Depo.

    2006-11-16 21:48:50
    278.   EJM
    I'd love to see Nomar back, at least you know what to expect from him while he's healthy. Not a liability in the field or at the plate.

    With Loney, who knows? I seem to remember a lot of people being pretty high on Hollandsworth at one point as well...

    2006-11-16 21:51:11
    279.   Greg Brock
    Unless he plays second (and Kent is dealt) or left field, I hate this Nomar deal.

    Hate it.
    Hate it.
    Hate it.

    2006-11-16 21:53:12
    280.   D4P
    If Drew was terrible we were stuck with a huge contract...Boras really pulled one on an inexperienced Depo

    First of all, all contracts are risky. If the player sucks or gets hurt, you're stuck with a bad contract. Just two years after the contract was signed, $11 million/year for JD Drew looks like a huge bargain.

    Second, Drew and his agent wanted a no-trade clause. Depo didn't give it. As a result, had Drew not opted out, Depo (or Ned) could have traded Drew if they weren't happy with him. They weren't totally stuck.

    2006-11-16 21:55:40
    281.   Bob Timmermann
    It looks like USC will beat USC in the Galen Center opening.
    2006-11-16 21:58:49
    282.   LA Native
    280

    It is true you are stuck with someone if they go bad, but at least on a normal contract you get to keep them if they do well and you are getting a bargain. With this opt out, we were going to lose in any scenario. If he was a complete bust, we might not have been able to trade a big contract like that and even if we could we would have got little back (in other words, we would lose under this scenario as well).

    2006-11-16 22:00:04
    283.   trainwreck
    So did the gamecocks win the right to be called the only USC?
    2006-11-16 22:03:45
    284.   CanuckDodger
    278 -- Perhaps you remember people being high on Pedro Martinez and Mike Piazza as well. Loney is a safer bet than Garciaparra, because we know that the odds are AGAINST Nomar saying healthy. You might want to compare Loney's and Nomar's MLB numbers after the All-Star break.
    2006-11-16 22:04:44
    285.   Bob Timmermann
    283
    The Gamecocks beat the Trojans, but lost to the Anteaters.

    On the schedule, Southern California hosts Loyola Marymount on December 2, the same day as the UCLA football game. USC seems to host a basketball game on that day quite frequently. Which leads me to this question: who goes to that basketkball game?

    2006-11-16 22:08:24
    286.   LA Native
    285

    No one goes. I never thought the Sports Arena was the reason USC drew so poorly. The Sports Arena was essentially on campus and the sight lines were much better than Pauley Pavilion even if it was a bit musty. Hopefully, they can get a good student section and a strong fan base going at the Galen Center, although I have my doubts.

    2006-11-16 22:10:35
    287.   dzzrtRatt
    I understand the objections to Nomar. I don't think you're going to remember them next season any more than the objections to Nomar a year ago came up much this season.

    Loney's going to play, someplace. The idea that we're giving up a lot by giving up Loney's first base defense is of a piece with the complaints when we signed Kent that we were giving up "the best double play combination in history."

    If Loney plays the outfield and Nomar plays first, and assuming Loney doesn't translate his excellent first base defense into horrible outfield defense (and why would he?), then the team will benefit. With Drew's departure, signing Nomar became a must. The pool of FA hitters is so shallow this season, and in the end I think the chances we get Soriano are small -- the bidding is going to be outrageous.

    The more holes Colletti has to fill thru trades, the more prospects are at risk. Nomar's presence protects these guys.

    2006-11-16 22:14:17
    288.   trainwreck
    I just do not like the idea of doing stuff to do stuff. If the talent pool is not that good this year then just forget about making moves that could affect us in the future.
    2006-11-16 22:15:13
    289.   EJM
    284 For as many as you can name, I can name more. But that's not the point, I say get a proven guy who you know can play, especially in such a thin market...especially if it's at a discount. Also, Loney didn't hit the rookie wall cause he didn't play enough games. I'm not going to try to predict what might happen, but I do know Nomar-Loney is a better platoon than anyone any other tandem out there.
    2006-11-16 22:15:38
    290.   trainwreck
    affect us negatively
    2006-11-16 22:29:36
    291.   das411
    Not relevant to anything but does anybody on here have this game?

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/746/746290p1.html

    2006-11-16 22:30:06
    292.   dzzrtRatt
    How on earth does signing Nomar "affect us negatively in the future?" He can play three or four positions, so you won't be able to blame him for blocking a prospect. When healthy, he is a more than solid hitter and fielder, an all-star. You guys make it sound like we're signing Wes Helms...or Julio Lugo.
    2006-11-16 22:31:16
    293.   Steve
    Exactly so.
    2006-11-16 22:36:09
    294.   ToyCannon
    287
    Can always count on you to state your case in a meaningful fashion as opposed to the verbal tantrums that usually follow any Dodger management decision.
    2006-11-16 22:36:40
    295.   D4P
    He can play three or four positions

    I'm just not sure I buy this claim, which is made quite often. Just because people suggest he should be put in a particular position (e.g. the outfield) doesn't mean he can "play" it.

    His career numbers:

    1 game at 2B (Rate2=101)
    34 games at 3B (Rate2=83)
    118 games at 1B (Rate2=93)
    1024 games at SS (Rate2=99)

    With the exception of 2B where he has only played 1 game in his career, he is below average at every other position (according to Rate2). At what point does one conclude that a player "can't" play a position? I don't know the answer to that, but being "well below average" would seem to be a pretty good indicator...

    2006-11-16 22:39:34
    296.   Jon Weisman
    Only at 3B is he below average with any significance, even if you put aside the small sample. A thousand games of being average defensively at the toughest defensive position is the reason people tend to think optimistically about him. (Not that Rate2 is the be-all and end-all.)

    Now, I do assume his defense has declined with age - I don't expect him to be a defensive whiz. But he's not going to embarrass you out there.

    2006-11-16 22:45:13
    297.   D4P
    More importantly, it doesn't seem to matter how many positions he "can play." From what I've heard, I'd be surprised if he plays anywhere other than 1B. That's where he played all of last season, and that's presumably the safest position for his fragile body.
    2006-11-16 22:45:43
    298.   trainwreck
    If Nomar is hurt all the time and we are paying him over 10 million a year that hurts us.
    2006-11-16 22:47:49
    299.   CanuckDodger
    289 -- You can name more what? Prospects as good as Loney who flame out? No, you can't. It was rather silly to even bring up Hollandsworth. At age 22, Loney hit .284/.342/.559 in the majors. At the same age, Hollandsworth hit .233/.304/.398 for the Dodgers. And Hollandsworth certainly never led the minor leagues in hitting, like Loney did this year. Loney and Hollandsworth are not comparable talents. I suppose next you are going to mention Onan Masaoka and Jeff Williams and say that they prove that Billingsley can't be trusted.
    2006-11-16 22:49:49
    300.   D4P
    If Nomar is hurt all the time and we are paying him over 10 million a year that hurts us

    Spoken like a true "Numbers guy." You're forgetting the positive externalities that Nomar will emit from his desire to wear a Dodgers uniform, as well as how great it will be for the youngsters just to have him on the bench to talk shop with during the games. If he's out at 1B all the time, that shop-talking doesn't happen, and there's no telling how much worse off those youngsters would be as a result.

    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2006-11-16 22:50:13
    301.   Greg Brock
    Honestly, I've been a real fence sitter on Ned, but I'm not anymore. Quite frankly, I think the guy is weak. I think he's risk averse, and seeks the comfort of "good character guys" and "solid veterans" with "presence."

    Signing Nomar, to him, is a safe move. That's why he's making it. Of course, it's just my opinion, but I have the good fortune of being right.

    2006-11-16 22:56:11
    302.   Greg Brock
    That last sentence needed some sort of smiley face. Just a joke.
    2006-11-16 22:56:30
    303.   EJM
    I dont much like if's...

    If Loney gets hurt and we dont have a reasonable back up that hurts us too. If Loney bats .198 that hurts us.

    Might as well give ourselves some insurance, and not be so preoccupied with if's.

    Since if's are popular, here's another one. If we dont spend the JD money on Nomar it might end up in Franks pocket.

    2006-11-16 22:59:04
    304.   StolenMonkey86
    The report is that they'll give Nomar a higher base salary so he'll rest more. If Nomar's there for multiple years, though, I'd like the idea of maybe moving him to second next year, so that way Kemp will be ready to come in, and there's no problem with a traffic jam in the outfield.

    This leaves the Dodgers with needing another outfielder, and the possibility of Andre Ethier in center field. Call me crazy, but I'd shop Beimel for Marcus Thames (the Tigers need to fill the void of Jamie Walker), and then put the big money into a deal for Zito, a bit more to entice Saito, and improve Grady and Ned's ability to recognize talent in Spring Training (see: entire bullpen).

    2006-11-16 23:02:05
    305.   Robert Daeley
    301 How is Ned risk "averse" precisely? Heck, he signed Nomar last year, and I'd say that was a pretty big risk that had the good fortune of being right. ;)
    2006-11-16 23:03:23
    306.   Greg Brock
    At six million dollars for one year, that's not a real big risk for a big market team. At all.
    2006-11-16 23:03:54
    307.   trainwreck
    300
    Dang I forget to add in those unmeasurables.
    2006-11-16 23:03:56
    308.   EJM
    299 Actually, yes I was going to name Williams, thanks for taking care of it for me.

    How long did it take you to look up Hollandsworth's stats from 1995 anyway? Please dont tell me you have it memorized.

    2006-11-16 23:04:26
    309.   ToyCannon
    301 I don't see how it is a safe move to sign a guy to a multi year deal who has his injury history including 2006. Sounds more like a risky move to me. The safe move would be to move Kent to 1st base and sign a veteran to play 2nd like Durham or trade Broxton for Marcus Giles.
    2006-11-16 23:04:49
    310.   D4P
    If we dont spend the JD money on Nomar it might end up in Franks pocket

    From whence it will magically "trickle down" to the rest of us...

    2006-11-16 23:05:47
    311.   StolenMonkey86
    310 - I don't think things trickle down from Frank's pockets.

    I understand he has been potty trained for some time now.

    2006-11-16 23:06:46
    312.   Robert Daeley
    306 So amount of money spent is the deciding "riskiness" factor?
    2006-11-16 23:09:17
    313.   bhsportsguy
    285 They drew 7,512 on their first night with no pro basketball games in town.

    Now I would guess they will do better next year with O.J. (Really, of all the names) playing there but I can't imagine more than 3000 there on December 2nd.

    2006-11-16 23:10:12
    314.   StolenMonkey86
    The safe move would be to move Kent to 1st base and sign a veteran to play 2nd like Durham or trade Broxton for Marcus Giles.

    Broxton for Giles? That's not a safe move; if Saito says no and Gagne leaves, we have Brett Tomko as our closer.

    Besides, If I'm trading Broxton, I'd throw in Kemp for Andruw Jones (then extend Jones). You can do better than Giles for Broxton.

    2006-11-16 23:10:47
    315.   Greg Brock
    306 I guess we just disagree. I'm not big into arguments here, so we'll just leave it at that.
    2006-11-16 23:12:13
    316.   CanuckDodger
    308 -- It takes a few seconds to google "Baseball Cube Todd Hollandsworth."
    2006-11-16 23:15:28
    317.   LA Native
    313

    7,512 is a respectable number if they can keep up that all season, but I imagine some of it is for the first game only. Looks like a nice arena, especially for the fans. Like a mini-Staples, but better sight lines and much closer to the court from the upper levels.

    2006-11-16 23:16:37
    318.   StolenMonkey86
    So, nobody is calling me crazy based on 304.

    That's ok, because I have to do my labor econ homework.

    2006-11-16 23:17:30
    319.   Greg Brock
    304 You're crazy.

    Better?

    2006-11-16 23:21:29
    320.   trainwreck
    I don't think anyone would find trading Beimel for a decent hitter as crazy.
    2006-11-16 23:24:18
    321.   EJM
    316
    I didnt expect to get into a Hollandsworth discussion when I mentioned it in passing, but why not. If Loney match's Hollandsworth's 1996 numbers -.291/.348/.437/.785 - I would be a happy guy.

    Although, it originally wasnt meant literally, I was just emphasizing the fact that we really dont know what we have with Loney...yet.

    2006-11-16 23:25:04
    322.   natepurcell
    or trade Broxton for Marcus Giles.

    /shudders

    Thinking about it somemore, nomar for 2yrs isnt the end of the world only if Loney still gets his major league ABs. like steve said, if signing nomar stops ned from giving out 5-6yr deals to soriano/carlos/gary matthews/juan pierre, then godspeed nomar.

    obviously nomar can still hit. if hes healthy, he plays well. if hes hurt, his numbers suffer.

    2006-11-16 23:26:30
    323.   trainwreck
    Office Space fans should check this out

    http://tinyurl.com/u284s

    2006-11-16 23:29:32
    324.   Greg Brock
    323 That's hilarious!

    Office Space, the thriller...

    2006-11-16 23:38:50
    325.   Louis in SF
    I don't understand how people can diss the Nomar signing or soon to be. Who would you rather have DH for 18 games a year, Saenez, Kent? Nomar platoons with Wilson B and offers protection for Loney. Especially if he plays as a super utility player and with his bat, there just aren't the players out there in free agency to sign and if we sign Nomar, we actually protect some of our young players.

    Finally the market is going to be so inflated for all players, that 8-10 million per year for Nomar will seem like a bargin. Especially when JD Drew signs for 14 million for 4 years.

    2006-11-16 23:39:29
    326.   StolenMonkey86
    319, 320 - Mostly it was for having Ethier in center. But thank you, nice to know that someone understands that I'm a loony.
    2006-11-16 23:48:13
    327.   StolenMonkey86
    304 Here's where I'd see that lineup, based on my guesses of how Grady thinks:
    Furcal
    Loney
    Nomar
    Kent
    Thames
    Ethier
    Betemit
    Martin
    2006-11-17 01:29:43
    328.   thinkblue0
    nate,

    did you ever post your offseason plan? I wanted to check that out....

    2006-11-17 02:07:01
    329.   overkill94
    325 There's no way we're paying a 1/10 of the time DH (18 games) $10 million a year. If we sign Nomar, it's to start at 1B...period. If Loney is ready to play RF, fine, but we better bring in a damn good CF to pick up the slack.
    2006-11-17 02:27:34
    330.   thinkblue0
    329-

    Only person to pick up that slack is Soriano...

    unless we get a Pat Burrell type.

    2006-11-17 06:34:29
    331.   50 years a Dodger Fan
    Please forward this to Ned and Toby:

    Finally, Brian Cashman is looking for a backup catcher after failing to sign Henry Blanco

    2006-11-17 06:47:43
    332.   Terry A
    277 - BTW, that contract was the worst thing Depo ever did.

    LA Native, meet Odalis Perez. Odalis, LA Native.

    287 - The more holes Colletti has to fill thru trades, the more prospects are at risk. Nomar's presence protects these guys.

    The counter to that point is that the presence of "savvy veterans" like Nomar may give Colletti the comfort level he needs in order to trade a talented youngster for, well, Julio Lugo. Or Mark Hendrickson.

    I submit that every vet signed to a multiyear contract removes another layer of protection for our prospects-in-waiting.

    2006-11-17 07:24:47
    333.   Terry A
    (I also agree with ToyCannon's comment earlier about d'ratt's posts. Always pragmatic, never insulting. Each post is a literary, non-predatory hug and a toasty cup o' joe.)

    St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz reports Luis Gonzalez is "leaning toward LA."

    Maddeningly, he does not indicate the LA team toward which the former D'back allegedly leans.

    2006-11-17 07:27:39
    334.   Sam DC
    Poor Garden Grove. She'll be missed.

    http://tinyurl.com/y5yzzt

    2006-11-17 07:28:11
    335.   Sam DC
    333: That's the first actual instance of baseball "LA" ambiguity I can recall.
    2006-11-17 07:30:44
    336.   Andrew Shimmin
    We could have had 20% of the first round draft picks, plus a whole scad of sandwich picks. But, instead, we've got Kent (who can't seem to play second anymore) for at least one more year, Nomar (who nobody knows what he can, or should play) indefinitely, and a thirdbaseman we don't trust to play third base. It's disappointing, whether it's for the best or not.
    2006-11-17 07:34:22
    337.   Terry A
    335 - I spent a good 10 minutes trying to think of baseball teams in Louisiana.
    2006-11-17 08:05:56
    338.   Midwest Blue
    327 There is not enough pop in that line-up to get past the first round of the playoffs. Please re-submit your answers for review. Preliminary grade: C.
    2006-11-17 08:14:45
    339.   Bob Timmermann
    If Luis Gonzalez plays for the Dodgers, Vin will talk about the triplets every day he's on the air.

    That would pain me deeply.

    2006-11-17 08:18:57
    340.   50 years a Dodger Fan
    334 Missed? By Whom? No racial slurs intended but Garden Grove was the city of choice for the Koreans in Orange County. There are several miles along Garden Grove Blvd where all the signs are in Korean. And that is fine with me, that's what America is all about.
    And Harbor Blvd is known to a lot of people as Hooker Blvd for all the ladies who ply their trade along that street. And I don't even have a problem with that; they are probably more honest than 95% of our politicians.
    2006-11-17 08:19:06
    341.   D4P
    If Luis Gonzalez plays for the Dodgers, that would be painful enough.
    2006-11-17 08:50:11
    342.   Jonny6
    301
    I suppose that we've already forgotten that Colletti's first major move was bringing in that "risk averse, character type guy" Rafael "DUI" Furcal.

    I'm OK with the Nomar re-signing, but I've got to admit I would prefer to see him split time at 1st and 3rd. Something tells me that's not very likely, but I would really like to see Loney get at least half of the starts at 1st this season. Can any of you more historical minded guys than me give me a successful example of guy platooning at both 1st and 3rd in the same season? Or even between RF and 1st base which is a possibility in Loney's case?

    2006-11-17 08:58:09
    343.   Andrew Shimmin
    More historical than Olmedo Saenz? Who's still on the roster, incidentally, though he won't make as much money as Nomar, and his presence doesn't cost any draft picks.
    2006-11-17 09:02:01
    344.   Greg Brock
    342
    I do believe that would be using sarcasm in a way that could be interpreted negatively.
    2006-11-17 09:11:08
    345.   Steve
    Andrew and D4P, we have to stay out of the market. I mean, we usually need to do that, but this year it is a categorical imperative. It is the Prime Directive. The whole offseason and probably into the next decade rides on who we don't sign in the next four months. If Nomar takes himself off of the market and we don't have to bid against ten other teams for an .800-.850 OPS guy, then that is of value this year. Yes, Loney and Ethier should be starting every day. But we must avoid the Big Mistake, and if there are little mistakes made along the way, we must be prepared for compromise in any case.
    2006-11-17 09:13:25
    346.   Terry A
    The market has flattened our tires. We have to pull together as a team and seek revenge!
    2006-11-17 09:18:31
    347.   Greg Brock
    The legendary Bo Schembechler has passed away at the age of 77.
    2006-11-17 09:18:41
    348.   Jonny6
    343
    How about someone who plays more regularly than Saenz and is not used primarily as a pinch hitter (although I realize a couple of years ago Saenz did see the field much more often)? I may just be drawing a blank early on a Friday morning, but I can't come up with a player who routinely bounces back and forth between 1st and 3rd (who also starts 130+ games in a season).

    344
    Oops, forgot about ol' rule #7. My apologies, but that's about as gentle as my sarcasm gets and I can't really write a sentence, much less a paragraph, without sarcasm. How about we consider that mildly annoying instead of negatively sarcastic just this once?

    2006-11-17 09:20:30
    349.   Greg Brock
    344 No problem!

    What's a little mild annoyance among friends?

    2006-11-17 09:20:34
    350.   StolenMonkey86
    338 - Ok, here's an idea:

    Step 1: Trade Kent to the Yankees for a prospect or two.
    Step 2: Trade the Blue Jays for Vernon Wells, possibly using said prospect with Matt Kemp in lieu of Penny or Kuo
    Step 3: Nomar plays 2nd.

    Lineup
    Furcal - ss
    Loney - 1b
    Nomar - 2b
    Wells - cf
    Thames - rf
    Ethier - lf
    Betemit - 3b
    Martin - c

    Show/Hide Comments 351-400
    2006-11-17 09:24:42
    351.   Greg Brock
    Drew is going to sign a two year, 30 million dollar deal with the Red Sox?

    {Channeling Moe}...Whaaaaaa??!!

    http://tinyurl.com/tjb76

    2006-11-17 09:25:34
    352.   blue22
    350 - The Yankees have Cano at second. I think trading Kent is a total pipe dream. Considering his ties to Ned, and the extension, all that, Kent might be the most untradeable guy on the team (unless Kent requested a deal).

    LA needs a CFer badly. Can Brad Wilkerson still play center? Texas seems to be moving on without him.

    2006-11-17 09:27:40
    353.   blue22
    351 - Well, that's...something, I guess.

    Also in there:

    San Francisco is believed to have made three-year, $30 million offers to center fielders Juan Pierre and Gary Matthews Jr. with the idea that whoever says yes first gets the deal.

    Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please. Dear god, please say yes!

    2006-11-17 09:28:43
    354.   Sam DC
    Hey Bob, I see your favorite little town is in the news again . . .
    2006-11-17 09:30:10
    355.   Greg Brock
    Ten million a year for Juan Pierre?

    God I love Brian Sabean.

    2006-11-17 09:30:18
    356.   StolenMonkey86
    352 - Of course trading Kent is a total pipe dream because Colletti likes him. But the Yankees need a first baseman, and he could do the job.
    2006-11-17 09:35:11
    357.   Andrew Shimmin
    355- Well, I'm sure come the start of the season 3yrs/$30 million seem like a bargain, for Pierre. Or Matthews.
    2006-11-17 09:38:23
    358.   D4P
    Drew is going to sign a two year, 30 million dollar deal with the Red Sox?

    This raises an agent-related question in my mind. Do agents get paid based on a percentage of the contract? For example, when Drew signed the deal with Depo, did his agent get a percentage of the 2-year deal (scheduled to get a percentage of the remaining 3 years if Drew stayed with the Dodgers), or did Drew's agent get a percentage of the entire 5-year deal, whether Drew stayed with the Dodgers after 2 years or not?

    I ask because I'm trying to figure out which is the better deal for Drew's agent (i.e. staying with the Dodgers for 3 years, 33 million, or going to the Red Sox for 2 years, 30 million). If Drew's agent got paid for the 5-year deal, then clearly it's in his best interest for Drew to opt out and go somewhere else, so Drew's agent could get paid twice. But if Drew's agent got paid based on the first 2-years in LA, it seems like the agent would be better off getting paid based on $33 million instead of $30 million, unless the agent's pay is based on the annual salary, not the total value of the contract.

    Any insights...?

    2006-11-17 09:43:27
    359.   Sam DC
    358: I wondered that too.

    Classy (really): http://deadschembechlers.com/

    2006-11-17 09:44:23
    360.   D4P
    Andrew and D4P, we have to stay out of the market

    I agree. The market seems heavy on guys with power, not much patience, and not much defense. Fortunately, Ned doesn't seem particularly interested in that kind of player, though you never know.

    2006-11-17 09:45:08
    361.   Cornell Blue Fan
    StolenMonkey,

    where do you go to school?

    2006-11-17 09:48:59
    362.   blue22
    358 - I've heard that Boras prefers to go for highest annual salary, over length.

    There's got to be a breaking point though, as I doubt he would encourage Drew to do a 1yr/$16M deal over a 4yr/$60M deal.

    2006-11-17 09:50:59
    363.   Greg Brock
    Sam, that band has been around for a long time, and Bo thought it was hilarious. I thought their comments regarding his passing were very nice:

    BO SCHEMBECHLER: OSU'S MOST VALIANT FOE: The band is crushed to learn of the death of Bo Schembechler. We named this band after Coach Schembechler to honor him as the face of Wolverine football. We have never wished ill will upon him in any way and have always wished him the best. When we learned that Bo had seen our web site and was amused by it we were delighted. We were simply delighted. He said to those with him as he read it, "See, I still matter in Columbus!" That may have been the greatest understatement in football history. We believe that he took the band's name as the compliment that it was meant as and that he was flattered by it. We wish to extend our deepest and most heartfelt sympathies to his family. We are truly sorry for their loss.

    2006-11-17 09:52:47
    364.   Bob Timmermann
    354
    Ahh, Vernon....
    2006-11-17 09:52:58
    365.   Greg Brock
    I'm sure you knew that, Sam. I'm not sure everybody else did.
    2006-11-17 09:56:20
    366.   D4P
    364
    I thought he meant Redding, though I guess that's more of a medium-sized town...
    2006-11-17 10:08:27
    367.   DodgerfaninNY
    I can't imagine Boros and Drew sign a 2 yr. deal. It dosn't make any sense. Are they so sure he won't break down in the next 2 years? It just doesn't seem in Boros' character. I thought the whole reason to terminate the Dodger contract was to get more security and more guaranteed $$. With this Red Sox contract, he does neither.
    2006-11-17 10:10:36
    368.   D4P
    367
    If Drew's agent gets paid based on a $15 million/year salary rather than an $11 million/year salary, than the former deal would presumably be better than the latter for Drew's agent.
    2006-11-17 10:15:55
    369.   Sam DC
    367 Sure, but getting nearly the same money for one less year isn't adding too much downside risk to Drew and getting him back to FA when he's a year younger has real upside risk. And getting all that extra money into his pockets a year sooner has value, as he can earn a good deal just be holding it smartly.

    If those reports are true, the very worst case is he makes $3 million less for working one year less. But that's not really the most likely outcome.

    2006-11-17 10:22:47
    370.   blue22
    369 - JD batting behind Papi and Manny for the next two years will help those all-important RBI figures for the next time he's a FA. If he signs for 2/$30M, any amount on his next contract above $3M is a win for him.
    2006-11-17 10:24:24
    371.   D4P
    369
    The odd part is Drew's alleged interest in wanting a no-trade clause so he could stay in one place for a long time. Maybe he has reconsidered that issue.
    2006-11-17 10:29:29
    372.   Im So Blue
    Old friend Alex Cora has re-signed with the Red Sox for 2 years for $??????.

    The Red Sox won't have to worry about replacing dependable and versatile infield reserve Alex Cora. Instead, the club has re-signed the left-handed hitting veteran to a two-year contract.

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/y95o2v

    2006-11-17 10:35:51
    373.   Steve
    Former Red Sox shortstop Alex Gonzalez has received a three-year $15 million deal from an undisclosed team.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

    2006-11-17 10:38:42
    374.   Terry A
    There's an awful lot in that Ringolsby column that doesn't add up. If a quarter of what he wrote ends up actually coming to fruition, then this will be the market to end all markets for free agents.

    I retain my healthy skepticism, though much of it is based on Ringolsby's hat. (When I become a nationally recognized sports columnist, my column photo will depict me with an eye patch and a parrot perched on my shoulder.)

    2006-11-17 10:41:10
    375.   D4P
    Which of the following (if any) have generally accompanied rising player salaries:

    1. Rising ticket prices
    2. Rising revenues from sources other than ticket prices
    3. Lower team profits
    4. Higher team profits

    2006-11-17 10:57:04
    376.   Sam DC
    373 LOL and piercing analysis, all at the same time.
    2006-11-17 11:01:30
    377.   Robert Daeley
    374 Then you could make "Terry and the Pirates" references. :)
    2006-11-17 11:06:59
    378.   Bob Timmermann
    366
    Bob's "favorite" cities:

    Vernon
    Redding
    St. Louis
    Lansing
    Fontana

    2006-11-17 11:10:24
    379.   Bob Timmermann
    378
    I forgot to add Phelan.
    2006-11-17 11:18:05
    380.   Vaudeville Villain
    I was originally going to post about not liking the Garciaparra deal, but after reading what some other players are going to be getting, forget it.

    Less money spent foolishly is better than a lot of money spent foolishly.

    BTW, I look on with glee and merriment at the impending disaster that is the San Francisco Giants. Their farm system is bare, They don't have any real good player minus Bonds, and their General Manager is Brian Sabean. They'll be perennial losers as long as he's with SF.

    2006-11-17 11:26:14
    381.   regfairfield
    In all this insanity, the Cardinals signed Scott Spiezio to a reasonable two year, 4.5 million dollar deal. Granted, he was terrible in 2004 and 2005 but he was pretty good this year (.272/.366/.496). Makes me slightly more enthusastic about our ability to sign stop gaps.
    2006-11-17 11:26:36
    382.   Sam DC
    Why again did Bruce Bochy want to switch from SD to SF?
    2006-11-17 11:31:29
    383.   GIDP
    382

    He likes the "Beat LA" chants.

    2006-11-17 11:35:29
    384.   Disabled List
    I realize this is probably the third time in the past month that I've quoted Bill Simmons in a DT thread, and if I do it again Jon will probably ban me, but these bits from today's column were very good:

    Q: Bill, what's the sports equivalent for your girlfriend wanting to "see what else is out there because it's college?" (Which sucks for me.)
    --Justin, Boston

    SG: I'd say J.D. Drew stabbing the Dodgers in the back and opting out of his contract -- maybe it hurts when it happens, and maybe you didn't see it coming, but you'll be better off in the long run.

    Q: I keep hearing that the Sox are drooling over Julio Lugo. This is like when a buddy goes after an ugly chick.
    --Brian, Cambridge, Mass.

    SG: Agreed. I went to a Dodgers game in mid-September when (A) Lugo couldn't crack the starting lineup, and (B) J.D. Drew struck out in a big spot and halfheartedly strolled back to the dugout, followed by all the Dodgers fans booing and hissing and my friend Tony explaining to me, "That guy has all the talent in the world, he just doesn't give a crap. He has the exact same demeanor in every situation." Now the Red Sox are ready to pay them $20-25 million combined? The Red Sox have hooked up with more ugly chicks than Ron Jeremy.

    (Note to the Red Sox: Before we sign free agents, can you check with the fans of their previous teams before making an offer? If the prevailing line of thought is somewhere between, "I can't say I was upset to see him go" and "Instead of signing him, you guys should just set it on fire to see how $50 million smells when it's burning," that's probably not someone you want to be signing. Call me crazy.)

    2006-11-17 11:35:44
    385.   Bob Timmermann
    382
    Bochy went to San Francisco for the waters.
    2006-11-17 11:35:49
    386.   Sam DC
    I was thinking maybe he knew SD planned to trade Jake Peavey.

    Er, oh wait . . .

    2006-11-17 11:35:50
    387.   underdog
    I don't think re-signing Nomar is foolish at all, though I certainly hope Loney gets a shot, whether it's at first (where I think he's naturally gifted) or in the OF. But Nomar, overpaid or not, will be a valuable person to keep because of his versatility (less so now that's older, but still of value), his bat, and what he brings to the team overall. Losing JD and Nomar's numbers both is a lot to have to overcome in the offseason. I for one am happy to have him back, as long as the team doesn't count on more than a certain number of games from him. Obviously they still need to acquire 1-2 big bats.

    As for JD Drew: I can't see how he's going to be happier in Red Sox nation than he was in LA. Fans there may like having him for awhile but as soon as he struggles even a little or gets injured, they'll turn on him in not a nice way. I was sure he wanted to go play some place closer to home, like Atlanta. But go figure. I wish him luck but we're moving on without him.

    RE: Centerfield. I hope the Giants overpay for Juan Pierre, too. I honestly wouldn't mind having Gary Matthews on the Dodgers, but, yeah, the astronomical amount he'll command this off season will be so out of touch with what he's really worth it doesn't make sense. But if he was cheaper I wouldn't mind having him vs, say, Lofton.

    2006-11-17 11:37:07
    388.   underdog
    And re: Simmons' comments, I love it - and the thought of the Red Sox fans also having to endure Julio Lugo makes me even giddier.
    2006-11-17 11:38:48
    389.   Disabled List
    A friend just sent me this note. Please please please let it be true:

    The Giants are believed to have made three-year, $30 million offers to free agents Juan Pierre and Gary Matthews Jr.

    They only want one of the two, so if either takes the proposal, the other offer will be withdrawn. It's hard to imagine Pierre doing any better than this elsewhere. However, Matthews is likely to get some four-year offers. Nov. 17 - 11:28 am et

    Source: San Jose Mercury News

    2006-11-17 11:40:46
    390.   Daniel Zappala
    What, Stockton didn't make the list, Bob?
    2006-11-17 11:42:32
    391.   D4P
    I hope the Giants overpay for Juan Pierre, too

    Overpay, underpay, justrightpay: I don't care, just get it done.

    2006-11-17 11:43:46
    392.   Vaudeville Villain
    Paying anything more than the minimum for juan Pierre is overpaying.
    2006-11-17 11:46:31
    393.   Bob Timmermann
    390
    The Port of Stockton?
    2006-11-17 11:51:46
    394.   Andrew Shimmin
    I don't think it's foolish to re-sign Nomar, either. I thinks it's suboptimal. Between Loney, Betemit, Saenz, and LaRoche on the way, I don't think the team needs another corner infielder. If that's not what Nomar is, then what is he? The last time it came up, he said he was happy, when moved, to have been able to stay in the infield. Is his mind open to OF work, now?

    If Nomar is the new CFer till Kemp proves his mettle, then spectacular. We can worry, next year, about what he'll do in 2008.

    2006-11-17 12:03:36
    395.   underdog
    Suboptimal, I like that word. I'm going to toss that out in a staff meeting today! Maybe so, I guess my point is they probably overpaid for a platoon player, but a valuable one nonetheless. I see him playing 1b and another infield position, and only about 60% of the time. He's still valuable, especially considering the power and RBIs they just lost with JD and not knowing what the free agency market will bring if anything.
    2006-11-17 12:08:43
    396.   Andrew Shimmin
    I'm mostly just sore about the swing from, "All your draft picks are belong to us," to another ho hum draft. Probably more picks than this year, unless the 'Stache loses his mind, but not as many as might have been. Logan White will not be around, doing his thang forever. And especially with the new agreement to not be jerks about slot pricing, draft picks are more valuable in general, and much more valuable to us, than the dartboard-method rabble.
    2006-11-17 12:12:35
    397.   Uncle Miltie
    From rotoworld
    Tracy Ringolsby of the Rocky Mountain News said J.D. Drew is expected to sign a two-year, $30 million deal with Boston.
    There have also been rumors of a four-year deal worth about $52 million. If the short-term deal is the choice, it might be because of Boston's refusal to give out full no-trade clauses.
    I thought Boras was looking for a 5 year deal for DJ. DJ would become a free agent again at 33. This would be a nice deal for the Red Sox.
    According to SI.com, the Dodgers are set to battle the Mariners for free agent Jason Schmidt.
    While things seem to be heating up with Barry Zito, the Schmidt front has been quiet so far. Many expect that he'll head close to home and sign with Seattle. However, his agent has discouraged such talk. The Yankees and Rangers are a couple of the other teams that could bid for the soon-to-be 34-year-old.
    I like Schmidt, but I want Zito a lot more. Schmidt is 34 years old and has experienced arm problems for the past few years.
    Free agent Ray Durham is seeking a two-year deal worth about $18 million.
    Durham's options are shrinking with the Indians, Cubs and Mets already having taken care of their second base situations, though the Mets haven't completely ruled out upgrading. The Padres, Cardinals, Blue Jays still have vacancies, but they also have Ronnie Belliard, Adam Kennedy and Mark Loretta as alternatives. The Giants are probably going to let Durham go and bring in a veteran to compete with Kevin Frandsen for a starting job. They'd like Rich Aurilia.
    Funny I said we should offer Durham that exact contract to be our center fielder.

    The Tigers listened to offers for outfielder Marcus Thames this week.
    Thames didn't look like a regular entering 2006, and after a great first half, he hit just .199 after the All-Star break. No team should be viewing him as a long-term option in left field, though as a part-time player, he could remain valuable. The Tigers would have more luck getting a quality left-handed reliever if they made Mike Maroth or Wilfredo Ledezma available.
    As expected, DT favorite Marcus Thames is on the trading block. He'd be an excellent pickup.

    Ok, now I'm going back to bed.

    2006-11-17 12:12:55
    398.   still bevens
    Anyone know how the '07 draft is shaping up to be? Im sure Nate does. Im a bit curious because everyone was discussing how '06 was going to be a lackluster draft well before it got to be summertime.
    2006-11-17 12:13:30
    399.   JoeyP
    I dont have a problem with signing Nomar to a multi-year deal, as long as its contingent upon Nomar moving to 2nd base at some point.

    3yrs/30 mils of Nomar at 1st is something I dont believe anyone would want.

    2006-11-17 12:22:51
    400.   JoeyP
    I can't see how he's going to be happier in Red Sox nation than he was in LA.

    I think Drew will fit in better not being "the guy", as he was in LA. I thought his best place was in NY or Boston. It'll be interesting to see if he walks as much in Boston hitting in front of Manny and Ortiz. Wouldnt surprise me to see him hit 30-35Hrs since I think he'll get much better pitches to swing at batting in that lineup.

    Show/Hide Comments 401-450
    2006-11-17 12:23:45
    401.   Marty
    I spent a lot of time in Vernon as a kid, since my dad worked across the street from Farmer John. Their mural is a childhood memory.
    2006-11-17 12:26:22
    402.   GoBears
    Boy, I don't like the sound of the deal being discussed for Nomar. Too long for such an injury-prone player, and too rich for a utility guy (Marlon Anderson is the same utility guy, but much cheaper). Rather than merely echo some good points made above, I have two or three other observations.

    Signing Nomar to a deal like this is not a way of avoiding the FA market. It's only this crazy market that would make this sort of deal for Nomar even conceivable.

    I can't imagine Nomar at 2nd base. Not any more. 1st or 3rd, and I would guess he's the regular 1st baseman, subject to occasional days off.

    Stopgaps are fine, but with 3-yr stopgaps (plus last year), those prospects are going to get a little ripe. I too would shy away from trading prospects for veterans, but if Colletti is afraid to let the prospects play (Nomar blocks either Loney or Either or LaRoche or Betemit or some pair of those) then he might as well trade them.

    2006-11-17 12:27:26
    403.   Vaudeville Villain
    Haha, San Francisco wants Rich Aurilia AND Juan Pierre? Life is good.
    2006-11-17 12:28:17
    404.   Jon Weisman
    Looking for a source in that Ringolsby column on the Drew signing ... nope, nothing. Just something he "overheard."

    "Is expected to sign" = code for one person being willing to say it on the QT with fear of repercussion if his name was used. Yeah, it could come true, but no one will remember if it doesn't, so let's print it!

    Bad day for rumor skepticism at DT.

    2006-11-17 12:32:33
    405.   Sam DC
    Farmer John Mural: http://tinyurl.com/y2zz3u

    More: http://www.laokay.com/FarmerJohn.htm

    2006-11-17 12:32:44
    406.   GoBears
    Bad day for rumor skepticism at DT.

    Well, no one has jumped on Colletti for a Nomar deal that is merely a rumor. I've just seen a bunch of people opining as to whether or not that would be a smart deal if true.

    I think we've learned our lesson about not overreacting to rumors. Even if we sometimes fail to phrase our answers in the form of a subjunctive.

    2006-11-17 12:35:13
    407.   Marty
    Nothing like a mural of happy pigs on a slaughterhouse.
    2006-11-17 12:48:19
    408.   Jon Weisman
    406 - Maybe I overreacted.
    2006-11-17 12:52:36
    409.   trainwreck
    353
    Exactly what I was thinking when I read that.

    Luis Gonzalez will make us miss Kenny Lofton's arm in the outfield.

    2006-11-17 12:54:30
    410.   regfairfield
    402 I don't particulary care for Nomar, but he's certainly better than Marlon Anderson.
    2006-11-17 13:00:57
    411.   trainwreck
    Now Jeter is dating Jessica Biel, when will life stop knocking that poor guy down.
    2006-11-17 13:02:38
    412.   GoBears
    408. Nah. A reminder each off-season is always welcome.

    I am pessimistic about the off-season, but I'm not ready to condemn the GM for crimes that are only imagined.

    That said, if Juan Pierre ends up in LA....

    2006-11-17 13:18:42
    413.   Bob Timmermann
    411
    I think Jeter fell for her after staying home one weekend to watch a "Seventh Heaven" marathon.

    I think he saw her in one of the episodes where someone has a moral dilemma about having sex before marriage or perhaps an episode about underage drinking.

    2006-11-17 13:20:45
    414.   GoBears
    410. Oh, no argument there. I was just saying that if we envision Nomar as a super-utility guy, then we're wasting money. Anderson can play all the same positions, and probably better, plus stay healthier, at a fraction of the cost. And that money, then, can be used on other needs, such as pitching. Also, Anderson is used to being a utility guy. For Nomar, it would be a big change of role.

    If by "super-utility guy," people are envisioning that Nomar will be used the way the Angels use Figgins or used Spiezio - in the lineup nearly every day, just as different positions - then I think we're back to the worry that he'll break down, and maybe sooner rather than later, given the greater stress on his body at all positions other than 1b.

    In the end, I agree with D4P. If Nomar is a Dodger next year, I completely expect him to be the regular first baseman, no matter was promised about "flexibility."

    2006-11-17 13:27:51
    415.   Jon Weisman
    Today's chips, in honor of Sam DC: Kettle Sea Salt & Vinegar.
    2006-11-17 13:29:53
    416.   Andrew Shimmin
    413- The Times was pimping her for an Oscar, just the other day, for playing the Scarlett Johansson role in the movie that was released a week before the remake of it was. I forget the names; something about magic.

    Personally I thought she was spectacular in the under-appreciated classic Summer Catch. And what to say about Stealth, save for: outstanding!

    2006-11-17 13:32:45
    417.   Marty
    I've never understood the appeal of vineger on chips.
    2006-11-17 13:33:05
    418.   Marty
    or vinegar for that matter
    2006-11-17 13:36:06
    419.   D4P
    In the end, I agree with D4P

    It always comes back to that...

    2006-11-17 13:42:08
    420.   trainwreck
    416
    The Illusionist.
    2006-11-17 13:44:32
    421.   Andrew Shimmin
    420- And The Prestige. Were either as good as Blade: Trinity?
    2006-11-17 13:45:55
    422.   D4P
    I think I saw Jessica Biel in an episode of "Trading Spaces" once. That's about it.
    2006-11-17 13:48:01
    423.   trainwreck
    421
    Did they have Triple H in them?

    So the answer is no.

    2006-11-17 13:49:49
    424.   Andrew Shimmin
    This is just unconscionable. You'll watch Trading Spaces, but not The Office? You've just supplanted Jimmy Carter as history's greatest monster.

    Seriously, has there been an discussion among toaster brass about deleting D4P's account? At least write a script so his screenname is displayed in red print. That way even casual comment readers will understand the place of shame he occupies.

    2006-11-17 13:53:56
    425.   Andrew Shimmin
    Hmm, I should probably include a link so that the, "history's greatest monster," bit isn't just hang out there, inspiring rebuttals.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_in_The_Simpsons

    2006-11-17 13:54:26
    426.   D4P
    You'll watch Trading Spaces, but not The Office?

    My wife started watching it 4-5 years ago, so I watched it with her. But we stopped watching 3 years or so ago. We went through a major "design TV" phase. We now watch only Divine Design and House Hunters.

    has there been an discussion among toaster brass about deleting D4P's account?

    Probably...

    2006-11-17 13:54:50
    427.   blue22
    372 - Wheeeee! Alex Cora's two-year deal is for $2M per! Wheeeee!
    2006-11-17 13:58:25
    428.   trainwreck
    Just watched the end of Doom and people thought Brokeback Mountain was shafted by the Oscars.
    2006-11-17 13:58:40
    429.   Terry A
    Brass toasters are so gauche, so yesterville.

    Sonora red is all the rage among today's chic toaster clique.

    2006-11-17 14:01:26
    430.   D4P
    At least write a script so his screenname is displayed in red print. That way even casual comment readers will understand the place of shame he occupies

    PS: Jesus talked in red print...

    2006-11-17 14:06:23
    431.   Andrew Shimmin
    430- I was thinking more along the lines of Hawthorne, but you tell yourself whatever you need to to get through the long, Officeless nights, Mr. Blaspheming Interior Decorator.
    2006-11-17 14:13:50
    432.   D4P
    I was thinking more along the lines of Hawthorne

    Oh, I thought you were talking about that guy who wrote that book about that woman who had to wear that red "A" on her clothing because of that adultery she committed.

    I think I'd have an easier time watching "The Office" if it weren't on NBC. NBC is the network of all those popular sitcoms like "Friends" and "Will and Grace" that I can't stand. As much as I don't like Fox, at least they have good comedies...

    2006-11-17 14:15:33
    433.   Sam DC
    415: Well, let it not be said I've accomplished nothing today.
    2006-11-17 14:20:09
    434.   trainwreck
    Instead of offering free agents money we should pay them in PS3s, I think it will give us the advantage.
    2006-11-17 14:22:02
    435.   Andrew Shimmin
    432- Comedies like Drexell's Class, Grounded For Life, Herman's Head, Roc, That 80's Show, and Titus, for example?
    2006-11-17 14:24:34
    436.   D4P
    435
    Hey, Titus was pretty good for a while...
    2006-11-17 14:31:35
    437.   trainwreck
    Grounded For Life had some funny moments, Donald Logue is a cool actor. Herman's Head was interesting and it had Hank Azaria from the Simpsons on it before I knew who Hank Azaria was. That 80's show had Brittany Daniels and Chyler Leigh who are both very attractive, yeah so the show was not funny in the least bit, but so what.

    As for the other shows I did not really watch them. I was too young to like a semi serious comedy like Roc, but Charles S. Dutton is a good actor. Drexell's Class had Dabney Coleman who is a funny guy and is good at playing a jerk. Titus had Stacy Keach and Stacy Keach is awesome, plus Christopher Titus goes to Baja Fresh in Santa Barbara.

    Yeah okay so those shows mostly sucked, but what's your point?

    2006-11-17 14:40:11
    438.   trainwreck
    What about the classic, Parker Lewis Can't Lose.
    2006-11-17 14:59:22
    439.   StolenMonkey86
    361 George Mason University, home of the Patriots and Gunston - the green ball of fuzz we call a mascot.
    2006-11-17 15:15:26
    440.   Jim Hitchcock
    417 Marty's just not a chip connoissuer :)
    2006-11-17 15:20:08
    441.   gibsonhobbs88
    I've been busy and haven't been able to keep up on the regular banter but I heard this morning Nomar was going to be resigned. I read some of the posts here and I glean from the posts that the 'alleged deal is for either 2 or 3 years?" If its two for between the 8-10 million, I will consider it money still well spent considering the lunacy this year's FA market promises. I am less enthused if it is three years, I like the idea of 2 years for Nomar. Can one of our experts verify if the rumored contract is for 2 or 3 years?
    2006-11-17 15:23:41
    442.   Jon Weisman
    441 - What's the point of verifying what the rumor says?

    I am sufficiently chastened to allow people to speculate on what it might mean whether it's two years or three ... but there is no point in actually verifying what is by definition speculation :)

    2006-11-17 15:33:46
    443.   Jon Weisman
    D4P has an ally. Mark Donahue has come out as anti-Office.

    http://westernhomes.baseballtoaster.com/archives/555023.html

    2006-11-17 15:33:56
    444.   gibsonhobbs88
    442 - I thought maybe someone knew that is on the inside what the true terms of the contract would be. I guess we won't know until he holds a press conference. I really didn't mean for someone to verify a rumor, sorry for the misunderstanding.
    Right now the team has a lot of holes to fill, pitching and hitting and I don't think it's a bad thing to keep a good vet like Nomar around to stabilize the team and add depth and flexibility.
    2006-11-17 15:42:08
    445.   Jon Weisman
    The old Jon would have had a post up about Nomar by now. The new Jon will have to wait to see if he still has the energy to write after the kids are in bed tonight, or whether he will just veg out and watch Monday's "Heroes."
    2006-11-17 15:45:45
    446.   Andrew Shimmin
    If you don't have energy for a Nomar post, you could throw together a quick denunciation of Mark Donahue. I mean, that'd write itself.

    This is egregious!

    This is egregious!

    2006-11-17 15:53:38
    447.   jasonungar05
    I'll admit. the idea af locking up any proven 3-4-5 hitter is nice to me.

    I missed you guys!!!

    2006-11-17 15:56:37
    448.   gibsonhobbs88
    445 - Fair enough.:) I'll be going to see Borat tonight for some anti-PC yucks!!:)

    Does anyone here know if there is a similar site for fans of the purple and gold "Lakers" to get together and banter.
    I bleed Dodger blue in the summer and bleed purple and gold in the winter, go back to the West, Baylor, Goodrich & Chamberlain days. Dodger and Laker fan since 1969 when I was eight going on nine years old. "Old habits die hard.":)

    2006-11-17 15:59:53
    449.   dzzrtRatt
    445 Or, Jon, you can just join us here in comment-land! A more "relaxed-fit" Dodger Thoughts.
    2006-11-17 16:06:00
    450.   Bob Timmermann
    445
    Jon,
    I am from the future.

    Write about Nomar!
    Save the world!

    Show/Hide Comments 451-500
    2006-11-17 16:16:10
    451.   D4P
    D4P has an ally. Mark Donahue has come out as anti-Office

    I'm not so much "anti-Office" as "a-Office". I've never actually watched the show.

    2006-11-17 16:23:30
    452.   Jon Weisman
    Hey, look - new, concise post up top.
    2006-11-17 16:23:36
    453.   trainwreck
    448
    ClubLakers, but it is no DT, but nothing is.
    2006-11-17 16:27:26
    454.   capdodger
    Italics.... Very pretty....
    2006-11-17 16:36:50
    455.   Andrew Shimmin
    Alyssa Milano is Harriet Bird.

    http://tinyurl.com/yhzrkl

    2006-11-17 17:28:54
    456.   overkill94
    455 Penny dated Milano in 2005, not 2006, correct?
    2006-11-17 17:34:45
    457.   Andrew Shimmin
    456- I don't know. I thought I remembered his having, but, I'm not prepared to undermine a perfectly good witch hunt.
    2006-11-17 17:42:45
    458.   ToyCannon
    439
    My oldest brother was part of the 1st graduating class at George Mason. He was quite happy last spring.

    I guess I'm officially to old for current pop culture. Just came back from seeing Borat and I don't understand the frenzy. I'm probably the least patriotic person I know but anyone can make fun of any culture, what was so special about what he did? I laughed more in the 1st 5 minutes of any Scrubs episode then I did for the 90 minutes of Borat.

    Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.