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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Vindetta?
2006-12-13 12:18
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Dodger Thoughts reader Greg Brock pointed out the following. ... Ain't It Cool News has been submitting reader questions to Sylvester Stallone:

Dear Sly,

did you ever talked in the past with Arnold about movie-projects you could do together ?

Thanks in advance ... with kindest regards.

Stephan Kamieth - Frankfurt/Germany.

[Stallone:] The idea of working with Arnold came up twice - one was with John Hughes, and it was about a pair of neighbors that were determined to destroy one another with their back-and-forth everyday vendettas. It was based on an incident that actually happened with me and a neighbor named Vin Scully, the voice of the Dodgers. That didn't work out.

So many responses ... "And a pleasant good afternoon, whereever you may be. Today, Sly Stallone is going to TP my house. So pull up a chair ..."

I don't even care if the story is true or not, it's just mind-blowing to think about.

Update: Reader Andrew Shimmin found some details from a June 2002 Mitch Getz piece in Los Angeles ...

FORGET FIGHTING IN A PHILADELPHIA BOXING GYM OR THE JUNGLES OF Vietnam. Sylvester Stallone's obsession with litigation has taken him into a more civilized battleground--the courtroom. Since 1983 Stallone has been involved in 47 civil cases in Los Angeles County alone, 16 times as the plaintiff. "I'd love to be his lawyer," says one prominent L.A. attorney. Currently the actor is suing his former business manager, accusing him of giving bad stock advice. Here are a few of the clashes he has initiated, and one in which he defended himself against an L.A. icon. ...

THE CASE Vin Scully v. Stallone FILED May 1993 THE COMPLAINT The voice of the Dodgers claims that runoff from neighbor Stallone's yard caused millions of dollars in water damage to Scully's Pacific Palisades home. OUTCOME Scully wins.

Update 2: This Associated Press report forwarded by reader Travis puts the conflict even further back in time:

SANTA MONICA, Calif. (AP) - Actor Sylvester Stallone will have to pay neighbor Vin Scully, the Los Angeles Dodgers announcer, about $69,000 under a split-decision jury verdict for flood damage at Scully's home.

A jury ruled 9-to-3 this week that 65 per cent of the blame for $106,407 in damage should be borne by Stallone, who had the former owner relandscape a hill separating the two houses in 1978.

Scully, the voice of the baseball team for 35 years and an NBC sportscaster, was disappointed the jury found him 20 per cent responsible, but was ''delighted that it's over,'' said his lawyer, Daniel Cathcart.

Stallone, in Vancouver filming Rocky IV, was pleased because the judge earlier had dismissed Scully's claims for $7-million in punitive damages, said his personal lawyer, Jack Bloom, who did not participate in the trial."

Comments (346)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-12-13 12:28:03
1.   Benaiah
I need more information so badly... How would one go about trying to find out more?
2006-12-13 12:28:22
2.   Sam DC
I know the Vin thing grabs one's attention pretty severely, but Arnold and Sly in a John Hughes movie? The I'll Have You For Breakfast Club?
2006-12-13 12:29:56
3.   Eric Enders
2 How many years you been saving that one for?
2006-12-13 12:32:13
4.   Greg Brock
1 I tried like the Dickens to do more sleuthing on this.

Alas, the Googles...they do nothing.

2006-12-13 12:33:12
5.   bhsportsguy
Funny, I kind of think I heard about this before but I thought it had something to do with some construction issues.
2006-12-13 12:33:56
6.   dan reines
Was about to post this down below, since it fit there, but seeing as how there's a new post:

Tying together two of the major threads of that last comment collection, I believe that John Lennon was best man at Peter Boyle's wedding. So, um, he had that going for him, which is nice.

2006-12-13 12:33:56
7.   dan reines
Was about to post this down below, since it fit there, but seeing as how there's a new post:

Tying together two of the major threads of that last comment collection, I believe that John Lennon was best man at Peter Boyle's wedding. So, um, he had that going for him, which is nice.

2006-12-13 12:34:28
8.   Benaiah
4 - I think that you would have to somehow ask either Vin or Sly about it. I doubt it went to the police and without that there wouldn't be much of a record. Other than that, someone in one of their families would know.
2006-12-13 12:34:30
9.   dan reines
sorry for the double post. it's just very exciting information to me.
2006-12-13 12:36:40
10.   gpellamjr
I would love to hear Vin do a Stallone rant on the air along the lines of what he had to say about Chavez.
2006-12-13 12:40:09
11.   Andrew Shimmin
THE CASE Vin Scully v. Stallone FILED May 1993 THE COMPLAINT The voice of the Dodgers claims that runoff from neighbor Stallone's yard caused millions of dollars in water damage to Scully's Pacific Palisades home. OUTCOME Scully wins.

Los Angeles Magazine, June, 2002 by Mitch Getz

2006-12-13 12:41:11
12.   Andrew Shimmin
Link to the Google cached page:

http://tinyurl.com/y8gtao

2006-12-13 12:42:41
13.   Greg Brock
Scully wins!

Ain't gonna be no rematch.
Don't want one.

2006-12-13 12:43:39
14.   Benaiah
Hmm... much less exciting than I hoped. I was hoping that Vin was putting sugar in his gas tank in retaliation for Sly stealing his cable or something.
2006-12-13 12:45:14
15.   xaphor
Perhaps Stallone, recently quoted, "I didn't live the life that I wanted, and now I've got all this stuff I want to say, but nobody wants to hear it", should have spent a little time talking to his neighbour.

And to carry over the Boyle eulogy from the previous thread, I'm surprised no one mentioned Young Frankenstein and Johnny Dangerously. One great, one cheesy, but both fun comedies that recall memorable performances.

2006-12-13 12:47:33
16.   Benaiah
Si.com says that Matsuzaka will get 6 years 52 million with incentives that could take it up to 6 years 60 million.
2006-12-13 12:47:42
17.   natepurcell
callis on kershaw

Steve (Texas): Do you expect the Dodgers to take their time developing Clayton Kershaw? Where does he rank among the Dodgers top prospects?

Jim Callis: (2:44 PM ET ) They won't rush him, but it's hard to hold that kind of talent back. If he's pitching in the big leagues by the end of 2008, it really wouldn't shock me. Sneak Preview: Kershaw is No. 2 on our Dodgers list, behind Andy LaRoche.

2006-12-13 12:48:53
18.   Sam DC
Young Frankenstein was mentioned. See Defamer link Jon mentioned.
2006-12-13 12:51:07
19.   Benaiah
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6266048

51+52/6=~17 million a year
51+60/6=~18.5

So the Sox paid 17-18.5 million per year, with luxury tax breaks on half of that, for the best pitcher of the offseason. Barring the unforeseen, I think this is a decent deal for the Sox. Its a lot of years, but the 51 million was a sunk cost so every extra year makes is at a discount and he is only 25.

2006-12-13 12:54:48
20.   DougS
18 Also, someone quoted from the scene in which Boyle, as the monster, performs "Puttin' on the Ritz" with Gene Wilder. That, alone, was worth the price of admission.

Young Frankenstein was the first piece of work in which I'd ever seen Peter Boyle. I've had a soft spot for him ever since.

2006-12-13 12:55:45
21.   Benaiah
19 - Now I see that Andrew posted this on the last thread.
2006-12-13 12:55:48
22.   Eric Enders
17 That's a reversal of BA's evaluation of 2 months ago, which listed Elbert ahead of Kershaw on the list of top LHP prospects in baseball.

1. Andrew Miller, Tigers
2. Scott Elbert, Dodgers
3. Clayton Kershaw, Dodgers

Neither one's pitching winter ball, right? I wonder what changed their minds.

For those who missed the list, the other Dodgers were...

FIRST BASE
2. James Loney, Dodgers

SECOND BASE
"DeWitt might not have hit in Double-A like he did in the Florida State League, but the lefthanded-hitting second baseman has the most upside with power and the ability to make consistent contact."
1. Blake DeWitt, Dodgers
8. Tony Abreu, Dodgers

THIRD BASE
"One of the deepest positions with star power in the minors..."
3. Andy LaRoche, Dodgers

SHORTSTOP
9. Chin-Lung Hu, Dodgers

CENTER FIELD
"By far the best position in terms of depth..."
5. Matt Kemp, Dodgers

2006-12-13 12:56:24
23.   dzzrtRatt
OT, but I note that the NY Times has started putting social media tags on its stories.

Don't you all think if Jon started letting people Tag and Digg and Facebook, etc., these posts -- this one in particular has "internet phenomenon" written all over it-- it might be helpful in getting his name & talent wider exposure?

2006-12-13 12:59:44
24.   Linkmeister
23 But does Jon want said exposure?
2006-12-13 13:00:46
25.   Jon Weisman
23 - Should I know what a social media tag is? I gather that I should.
2006-12-13 13:01:46
26.   Ken Arneson
First Bob Barker punches out Happy Gilmore, and now Vin Scully knocks out Rocky. What's next on the fight card? Alex Trebek vs. Mr. T?
2006-12-13 13:01:47
27.   Eric Enders
25 Glad I'm not the only one who's feeling that way.
2006-12-13 13:02:07
28.   Robert Daeley
Would have loved to be in that LA courtroom on the first day.

Judge: What's next on the schedule?

Clerk: Vin Scully vs Sylvester Stallone.

Judge: Finding for the plaintiff. Have the defendant thrown in the stockade.

Clerk: I don't think we have a stockade anymore, your honor.

Judge: Have one constructed.

2006-12-13 13:02:30
29.   Eric Enders
26 And phrased in the form of a question, too. Well done.
2006-12-13 13:03:48
30.   Eric Enders
28 made me start laughing uncontrollably. Now my dog is looking at me really weird.
2006-12-13 13:04:15
31.   Bob Timmermann
My workplace has had to cut off MySpace access temporarily because of a worm problem.

The public is not happy.

Guess who has to answer those emails.

2006-12-13 13:08:05
32.   Sam DC
31: Um, the flunkie you direct to do so, Boss?
2006-12-13 13:09:16
33.   Marty
The liberry has worms?
2006-12-13 13:10:46
34.   dzzrtRatt
25 Look up del.icio.us.com and digg.com. Basically, the idea is that Google is too haphazard a way for people to find posts; that it's better if the writer and/or the reader recommends them by tagging them (which del.icio.us allows) or putting them up to the public for a vote (digg, and others like it). Facebook I can't explain, but the NY Times is using it too. I think it's kind of a myspace for slightly older people.

This story might seem obscure to most of us, but it seems like we're at a "something happening here...what it is ain't exactly clear" moment:

http://tinyurl.com/uvu7m

2006-12-13 13:11:19
35.   Ken Arneson
23 I've thought about it, but I have not received one request to place such a tag on our site, until just now. Many other things seem like more of a priority.
2006-12-13 13:11:33
36.   Jon Weisman
28 - LOL

31 - The worm?

2006-12-13 13:14:00
37.   Marty
23 34 Adding that type of metadata is a big topic in my parts.
2006-12-13 13:16:44
38.   Bob Timmermann
33
Cockroaches too, but that's a different department.
2006-12-13 13:17:18
39.   dzzrtRatt
35 That's probably because the people who already know about it wouldn't need the aid of a tag to find it. Plus most posts on the toaster are generally in the same categories. This would be more to bring new people into the tent.

Partly, I was struck by the lack of any toaster entries, esp. Dodger Thoughts, in the blog awards that are going on now. This is clearly one of the best sports sites, and one of the best community sites. So I thought maybe not enough blog-savvy types know about it yet.

But I'm content to keep things the way they are. I thought Bruce Springsteen was at his peak when he opened for Dr. John in 1974, so I'm happy to be a cult-fan. I'm just looking out for our boy Jon here. I want him and his family to get seriously wealthy.

2006-12-13 13:19:27
40.   Eric Enders
39 Obviously we need to get you a bootleg of the 1978 Darkness tour.
2006-12-13 13:20:09
41.   Benaiah
Facebook and Myspace started within the past five years (facebook started in 2004, I know because I remember when it came to Duke it was a big deal) but the founders are already multi-multi millionaires. Someone offered to buy facebook.com for 700 million dollars and the owner, Jeff Zuckerberg, turned them down because he wanted a billion+. This is a guy who graduated from Harvard in the 2000s and he is turning down nearly three times as much money as A-Rod's contract. Crazy.
2006-12-13 13:24:46
42.   Travis
Here's something from the Chicago Sun-Times, October 11th, 1987. Pre-lawsuit, I guess:

"Sylvester Stallone is looking to sell his house in the Pacific Palisades area of Los Angeles for $4.9 million, reduced from $5.5 million when he listed it three weeks ago, and from $5 million when he took it off the market last November.

Stallone, who separated from his actress wife of 19 months, Brigitte Nielsen, in July, has owned the 11,000-square-foot house on 1.5 acres for 10 years. The gated and walled home has a screening room, gym, guest quarters and a barnlike structure for electric polo practice.

Producer-director Steven Spielberg has a house about half a block away that he bought for $7.5 million, then tore down and is building who-knows-what in its place. Sports announcer Vin Scully lives next door to Stallone, entertainers Goldie Hawn and Bill Cosby live nearby, and some vacant land a few blocks away just sold for $6.3 million."

2006-12-13 13:26:36
43.   trainwreck
RIP Peter Boyle, you were a quality Carl Lazlo
2006-12-13 13:27:12
44.   Travis
Does anyone know what electric polo is? Google is no help.
2006-12-13 13:28:31
45.   gibsonhobbs88
28 - LOL! Let that be a lesson to you Sly, you don't mess with Vinnie.:) Who else did Sly end up in court with, Chick Hearn? He would lose that one also.:)

From the last post, RIP Peter Boyle, thanks for the laughs from Young Frankenstein, The Candidate and of course as Frank Barone. That character reminded me of a combination of some of my relatives growing up.

2006-12-13 13:29:21
46.   dianagramr
44

Electric polo and Brigitte Nielsen .... makes sense.

2006-12-13 13:30:12
47.   dzzrtRatt
40 I saw that show, too, in San Jose and it was great. His 1975 show in Oakland was great too. But back then, he was still playing large amounts of his first three albums. By the River and especially by Nebraska, he had started to leave the old Bruce behind. I still love him now, but I miss the wild and crazy Bruce that I first got into when nobody else knew who he was.
2006-12-13 13:30:51
48.   dianagramr
43

Boyle also won an EMMY for a wonderful guest appearance on an episode on "The X-Files".

(back when that show was still great)

2006-12-13 13:31:20
49.   Robert Daeley
44 Electric polo, like water polo, is extremely cruel to the horses.

(Hat tip to George Carlin.)

2006-12-13 13:32:56
50.   Marty
I went to see Where the Buffalo Roam in Westwood on opening night. One of the greatest disappointments in my movie-going life. Gawd, that movie is awful.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-12-13 13:33:37
51.   Travis
Found more:

"
Stallone to pay Scully for damage from flood

Saturday, May 11, 1985

SANTA MONICA, CA -- SANTA MONICA, Calif. (AP) - Actor Sylvester Stallone will have to pay neighbor Vin Scully, the Los Angeles Dodgers announcer, about $69,000 under a split-decision jury verdict for flood damage at Scully's home.

A jury ruled 9-to-3 this week that 65 per cent of the blame for $106,407 in damage should be borne by Stallone, who had the former owner relandscape a hill separating the two houses in 1978.

Scully, the voice of the baseball team for 35 years and an NBC sportscaster, was disappointed the jury found him 20 per cent responsible, but was ''delighted that it's over,'' said his lawyer, Daniel Cathcart.

Stallone, in Vancouver filming Rocky IV, was pleased because the judge earlier had dismissed Scully's claims for $7-million in punitive damages, said his personal lawyer, Jack Bloom, who did not participate in the trial."

2006-12-13 13:34:16
52.   adraymond
41
If I may play the role of fact checker. His name is Mark Zuckerberg and he dropped out of Harvard. Otherwise your facts look good to me.
2006-12-13 13:34:33
53.   Dark Horse
40-I agree with dzzrtRatt here. Springsteen was at his most electric, for me, on the cusp of stardom. Some of the energy, and a good deal of the humor, drained out of it thereafter. Listening to things like the widely bootlegged 1975 Bryn Mawr show, he sounds like the greatest performer on two legs: Bob Dylan, Van Morrison and Patti Smith packed into one person. To say he "fell off" thereafter (a highly subjective assessment and one I'll temper by saying--'fell off, not by much, to something conceivably mortal') is minor criticism indeed.
2006-12-13 13:35:55
54.   Andrew Shimmin
44- Is it a sort of cologne?

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Ralph_Lauren_Polo_Sport__Review_41244

2006-12-13 13:36:07
55.   Jon Weisman
I'll settle for being post-'75 Bruce, if I must ...
2006-12-13 13:36:11
56.   gibsonhobbs88
So Rangers get Gagne, Angels sign Oliver, Astros and Rockies make a trade and it looks like the Red Sox got their prize at a hefty price. Okay, caught up on the Hot Stove front.

Any word on if Brazoban is working on an off-speed pitch? He will not help us being a "one pitch" pitcher.

2006-12-13 13:37:04
57.   Travis
And for the ridiculous details (2-1/2 days of jury deliberation!), San Francisco Chronicle, May 9, 1985:

Santa Monica

Los Angeles Dodgers announcer Vin Scully emerged with a partial victory yesterday in a legal dispute with actor Sylvester Stallone over flooding at Scully's Pacific Palisades home.

A jury ended 2 1/2 days of deliberations with a split decision, finding that 65 percent of the blame for the flooding should be borne by Stallone, Scully's neighbor.

In its 9-to-3 decision, the minimum vote for a civil case verdict, the jury said that Scully was 20 percent responsible. It put 15 percent of the blame on Jack Strauss, the contractor who built a 5000-square-foot addition to Scully's home.

The jury set the damage at $106,407, to be paid proportionally by the parties' insurance companies, and absolved the former owners of the Stallone estate, John and Margaret Gray, of any blame.

Stallone's attorney, Jack Bloom, said Stallone is pleased because Superior Court Judge Leonard S. Wolf earlier had dismissed Scully's claims for $7 million in punitive damages.

On June 14, the parties will return to court to decide the wording of an injunction that Wolf will issue to order construction of a drainage system to alleviate the flooding problem. Each party wants the system on the other's property.

Testimony in the monthlong trial indicated that the problem about three blocks from where President Reagan used to live began in 1978 when the Stallones bought the 1 1/2-acre, $1.25 million estate on the hill adjacent to the Scullys' home.

The Stallones directed the Grays to change some landscaping work on the hill between the homes to remove most of the substantial ground cover and replace it with grass.

The Scullys say they started noticing runoff problems soon after that, and their home was flooded after a heavy rainstorm in 1980. The Grays' insurance company settled that problem.

On Nov. 9, 1982, another heavy storm flooded the first floor of the Scully home with four to six inches of water, according to testimony. That flooding was the focus of the trial.

2006-12-13 13:39:03
58.   Jon Weisman
51 - Wow, Vinny wanted to punish Rocky.
2006-12-13 13:40:47
59.   Jon Weisman
57 - Those 1980 rainstorms were hellacious. We had school canceled because of mudslides - half the students couldn't get there. One of the happiest memories of my life, I have to say.
2006-12-13 13:41:16
60.   trainwreck
Never mess with the people that seem the nicest.
2006-12-13 13:43:09
61.   Sam DC
Josh Rawitch is reporting that Alyssa Milano is a fan of huge Dodgers.

Or something like that.

2006-12-13 13:46:49
62.   Eric Enders
53 I can see where you guys are coming from, and agree, to a certain extent. But in the early '70s his songwriting skills had not yet been fully developed; the performances were great, but how truly great can a performance be when it contains dreck like "The Angel"?

The Main Point show in Bryn Mawr is justly famous, but even so, it's still missing much of his best work (and contains only a half-written version of Thunder Road). I'll take the '78 Passaic show over that any day of the week.

After '75 the shows did become more scripted, but they were still more spontaneous and adventurous than anything anybody else was doing live, particularly the '78 tour. I think a lot of the change was due to the departure of David Sancious, who brought the free-form jazz mentality to the band that was really lacking in later years. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if he'd stayed in the band, much as Dodger fans wonder what would've happened if they hadn't lost Clemente.

2006-12-13 13:49:23
63.   trainwreck
61
She better not ruin Matt Kemp.
2006-12-13 13:49:44
64.   Benaiah
63 - I think she prefers pitchers.
2006-12-13 13:51:31
65.   Steve
Maybe she can convince Mark Hendrickson to run away with her. To some tropical island. Where his left arm will be bitten off by a killer shark.
2006-12-13 13:55:55
66.   Midwest Blue
64

AM: Stay away from Elbert and Kershaw.

(Gagne is free game.)

2006-12-13 13:58:53
67.   Bob Timmermann
So who will end up giving birth to a bigger child: Lisa Leslie or Lindsay Davenport?

Should I start a contest on the Griddle?

2006-12-13 14:05:59
68.   paranoidandroid
67

Mia Hamm will have the biggest if you add the two kids together.

My wife is due in February, but our first was only six pounds so she's out of the contest already.

2006-12-13 14:07:10
69.   paranoidandroid
Vin versus Sly could be renamed Class versus Ass
2006-12-13 14:09:33
70.   Hythloday
69 - Clearly you haven't seen Tango and Cash.
2006-12-13 14:13:56
71.   popup
#26, Ken, would a fight between Alex Trebeck and Mr. T involve a duel of library cards at 20 paces? My money would be on Timmermann; younger and I would imagine he has a longer reach.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-12-13 14:17:36
72.   Icaros
How come Bob never says "I pity the fool!" anymore?
2006-12-13 14:18:40
73.   Marty
I always suspected that The A Team was Bob's favorite show.
2006-12-13 14:22:19
74.   Travis
The search for what "electric polo" is driving me mad. The only references I can find to it are 1) various descriptions of Stallone's house; 2) a then-Governor George W. Bush quote, comparing the speed his father plays golf to "electric polo;" 3) an Esquire article about then-President Bush from February, 1992, whose full text is not available; and 4) articles from old, blurred newspapers, so a search for "electric polo" turns up articles referring to electric poles.
2006-12-13 14:23:06
75.   Jacob L
I haven't read through all the comments, so maybe someone mentioned this -

I was at a Dodger game a couple of years ago, when Sly showed up (3rd inning, of course) in the dugout club seats. He got a big reaction, and the stadium people proceeded to put him on Diamond Vision with the Rocky theme playing. Huge ovation, and I remember thinking it strange that seeing Stallone in LA was such a big deal.

Anyway, Vin must have noticed, but class act that he is, I'm sure he bit his tongue.

2006-12-13 14:25:56
76.   Dark Horse
62-Yeah, that's a good point actually about Sancious. The high point of that Bryn Mawr show for me is "New York City Serenade," which he's of course all over. But I think by '75 the lower-grade material was thoroughly gone from the set, and hearing the (not so much half-written as nearly-finished) "Wings For Wheels" from that show is thrilling, for me. I dunno: '78, '80 were fantastic tours, and there's a flat-out intensity to the '78 stuff (is Passaic the one that was booted as "Piece de Resistance?" First boot I ever got) that wasn't there before. But the spontaneity was the thing that got lost, and as someone whose interest in Springsteen positively plummets after Nebraska, it's truly something to miss.
2006-12-13 14:29:04
77.   Sam DC
So, does Hanscom AFB normally allow civilian general aviation ladnings, or is this the extreme version of the Mirabelli police escort?

http://tinyurl.com/bb7pb

2006-12-13 14:30:54
78.   Peanuts in My Shoes
74 I thought it was this:
http://tinyurl.com/yebde3
2006-12-13 14:32:56
79.   Eric Enders
76 "(is Passaic the one that was booted as "Piece de Resistance?" First boot I ever got)"

Yep, that's the one.

"as someone whose interest in Springsteen positively plummets after Nebraska..."
...you should totally get a hold of some boots from the Tom Joad tour.

2006-12-13 14:34:28
80.   gcrl
this thread reminds me of watching the local news several years back during "FLOODWATCH '(enter year here)", and being treated to an impromptu interview with larry hagman regarding how he had to go to burgess meredith's house to save him from the rising malibu creek.
2006-12-13 14:36:59
81.   Travis
75 August 5th, 2004, against the Pirates.

http://tinyurl.com/yf3uv8
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B08050LAN2004.htm

During my search, I came across this golden Stallone quote. Guess which one of his movies Stallone was filming at the time?

"There is a temptation to not wander too far from the nest of proven security. In this one, there's a tendency to just, say, every 11 minutes or so, put in some action-oriented scene that the film could live very nicely without. I am in a constant struggle with myself to avoid bastardizing the film, diluting its integrity."

2006-12-13 14:38:44
82.   Eric Enders
Maybe electric polo is this:
http://www.ccdmc.com/images/Team%20Building/5-Golf-Cart-Polo-M.jpg
2006-12-13 14:51:54
83.   Dark Horse
79-I'll take your advice, since I loved that '78 show about as well as I have anything ever. That section that included Not Fade Away>She's The One>Backstreets (I think) was especially satisfying.
2006-12-13 14:52:07
84.   Greg Brock
81 Stop or My Mom Will Shoot?
2006-12-13 14:54:11
85.   Sam DC
Oscar?
2006-12-13 14:55:16
86.   Travis
84 85 Not a comedy, except in the unintentional sense.
2006-12-13 14:56:26
87.   Greg Brock
Judge Dredd?
2006-12-13 14:56:31
88.   Disabled List
71 Ken, would a fight between Alex Trebeck and Mr. T involve a duel of library cards at 20 paces? My money would be on Timmermann; younger and I would imagine he has a longer reach.

Best comment/post of the offseason so far.

Actually, I bet Bob would school Alex Trebek at Jeopardy. As Jon Lovitz once pointed out, Trebek only looks smart because he has all the answers right in front of him.

2006-12-13 14:57:10
89.   Hythloday
81 - Antz
2006-12-13 14:59:03
90.   Travis
87 89 No. A follow-up quote:

As originally scripted, [Character Name] lost. Then Stallone wrote an alternative ending. The reason: "In `Rocky,' I go away losing, because no one really knew my image." If he'd lost this time, Stallone reasoned, it would "destroy the impact of the (film's) statement, which is about hard work paying off."

2006-12-13 15:00:27
91.   Midwest Blue
71 That's just too geeky.
2006-12-13 15:01:02
92.   Sam DC
Ooh, the Arm Wrestling one . . .

Um . . .

Is it Over the Top?

2006-12-13 15:01:13
93.   Peanuts in My Shoes
Just came across this article (by coincidence) on social news:

Battle Brewing Over 'Iconistan'
The strip of icons promoting social news sites at the bottom of blog posts seems fairly innocuous. But some think this slim slice of real estate is where the web's next great war for eyeballs will be waged. By Michael Calore.

[http://www.wired.com/news/technology/internet/0,72282-0.html?tw=wn_index_21]

2006-12-13 15:01:39
94.   Greg Brock
Gotta be Over the Top
2006-12-13 15:02:09
95.   Sushirabbit
Drat, my Frau Blücher pun was a day too early. I love that seen with Boyle doin' the Ritz.

It's a credit to Mr. Scully, that I have a hard time imagining him mad. Not so much with Mr. Stallone.

Linkmeister, I was refering to the fact that some Rickenbackers had really short necks. Like I think 1 octave or less, I think some metal guys like 2 octaves, which is why I mentioned the Ovation Viper (put some old Dimarzio'a on and YUM). Plus the action is unbelievable. Had a Sunn Beta Lead amp, too. I'd give alot to have that back. Also, I like some of Krugman's stuff. I'm not an economics person really. I have a an old-not-so-close-anymore friend who is-- he's the kind of person that thinks he's open minded but isn't. For instance, he would demand that the data be re-verified a hundred times before he'd even thing to question his model. He also won't stand when they play the national anthem.

On the other hand, I'm clearly less of a person as I have never liked Springstein. I think'd I'd rather here Tiny Tim.

Steve would you rather have Dan Miceli than Hendrickson?

2006-12-13 15:02:42
96.   Greg Brock
Sam beat me. His super fast fingers must have been energized by salt n vinegar chips today.
2006-12-13 15:04:03
97.   Sam DC
96 I did go back for a second diet coke in the mid-afternoon. :)
2006-12-13 15:06:38
98.   Travis
92 94 Bingo. The article (LA Times, Feb. 22, 1987) is comedy gold, capturing Stallone at his narcissistic peak. Being paid $12 million (1987 dollars) for Over the Top must do wonder for one's ego.

"This is a movie about a man who deserted his responsibilities," said Stallone, who explained that he's trying for "subtleties" in his performance.

"I'm working on one-tenth of the intensity that I usually go for," he said. "My character is so insecure that I let this kid run all over me. There are so many temptations to do a Wallace Beery, to go, `siddown and shuddup.' I don't. I let the kid abuse the hell out of me. And I do it for a very good reason - because I deserve it. I really do feel like I let him down."

2006-12-13 15:10:51
99.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
19 NOT a sunk cost. My understanding is that the Red Sox would not have paid a dime had they failed to come to agreement with Matsuzaka. The only downside for the Sox not signing him was not getting him. The downside for Matsuzaka was substantial, in that he could not pitch in MLB until 2009, substantially reducing his value. Wonder if Boras ran some numbers on that. That's called leverage, and the more I thought about it, the more that waiting for the deadline was to the Red Sox's advantage, given how their alternative was far easier for them to stomach than Matsuzaka's.

The way this system works actually hurt Matsuzaka more than helped, as he would have been able to pocket more money as a true free agent. Instead, the Sox have to swallow $100 million to get a pitcher who is only paid $50 million.

2006-12-13 15:11:11
100.   Disabled List
The new Rocky movie is going to suck, btw. It just has "suck" written all over it.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-12-13 15:18:15
101.   Xeifrank
wow, movie talk. I guess I picked the wrong day to read DT. :)

vr, Xei

2006-12-13 15:24:09
102.   Bob Timmermann
I didn't really care for "The A Team" much. My mom had an argument with George Peppard once and forbade me from watching it.
2006-12-13 15:28:39
103.   jdm025
This is way more attention than Sly deserves.

Sooooo...how 'bout that Pierre signing...anyone...Bueller?

2006-12-13 15:32:47
104.   D4P
It's Not a Tu-mor (or "How Dodgerthoughts Will Apparently Have D4P To Kick Around A Little Longer")

So, last Monday I began experiencing severe "flu-like symptoms," including fevers, a bad cough, weakness/fatigue, and breathing difficulties. The symptoms got worse until Sunday, when my wife took me to the doctor. My chest X-ray led to a diagnosis of pneumonia, with a related partially collapsed lung, and I was given various prescriptions. On Tuesday, we were notified that additional review of my X-ray had revealed a lump/mass/tumor in my lung, and that I needed to come in for a CatScan to provide more information on what the lump was. At best, they were predicting some sort of benign growth that could hopefully be removed via surgery. At worst, lung cancer. (My wife freaked out).

So I went in this afternoon for the CatScan, the results of which indicate that the mass is in fact NOT a tumor, but is rather a dense concentration of pneumonia-related gunk. I will remain on my medicine, and will go in to see a lung specialist next week to address the help my collapsed lung be not collapsed.

2006-12-13 15:34:09
105.   robohobo
What happened to that prospect that got hit in the head in his first major league at-bat for the Cubs? Is he still in the Dodger minor league system?

What do you all think of Rick Ankiel? He hit 22 homers for the Cards AA squad and had a chance to make the big club before getting hurt. He has some cheap power potential.

2006-12-13 15:35:47
106.   Eric Enders
104 That is both great news and a very funny headline.
2006-12-13 15:41:09
107.   Greg Brock
106 Man heaves sigh of relief over lung scare.

Good Lord. Glad you're going to be okay.

2006-12-13 15:45:19
108.   Johnson
103 Considering the info from 98 that Stallone got $12M for "Over The Top" in 1987, I'm beginning to think that $9M per for Juan Pierre isn't that bad!
2006-12-13 15:45:34
109.   Jon Weisman
104 - Big fat "whew!" Chalk up another future storyline for "House."
2006-12-13 15:48:22
110.   Midwest Blue
D4P - I had a joke all ready about you and women doctors, but I've decided not to go there. Be well.
2006-12-13 15:49:20
111.   Marty
Jeez D4P, I'm glad you're ok. Kinda puts my little troubles into perspective.
2006-12-13 15:49:45
112.   Bob Timmermann
109
I still need to tell my brother about last night's "House."
2006-12-13 15:54:03
113.   D4P
Thanks all. Never seen "House," but I did note that the antics at the hospital where I spent time were nowhere near as zany as those on "Scrubs."
2006-12-13 15:54:56
114.   Marty
So, no doctors having sex on the bed next to you, or anything like that?
2006-12-13 16:02:19
115.   D4P
114
No good-looking ones, anyway...
2006-12-13 16:03:28
116.   Daniel Zappala
Speaking of medical troubles, I have managed to hit the trifecta -- medical bills for my wife, orthodontist bills for my kids, and vet bills for my cat. I feel like I truly know what it is like to be married now.
2006-12-13 16:05:09
117.   s choir
6 years/52 million for Matsuzaka, topping out at 60 million? Sounds like Boras caved! Good to see Epstein winning in that game of chicken.

Seriously, Boras is an idiot. He went on and on about how Matsuzaka is worth 6/100 if he's a free agent, even though Matsuzaka is not a free agent.

2006-12-13 16:05:27
118.   Marty
I don't want to think about the money my Labrador has cost me.
2006-12-13 16:09:43
119.   GoBears
I didn't start watching "House" until several friends recommended it after I spent months in and out of the hospital in early 2005. All the king's doctors and all the king's tests couldn't diagnose me (turns out that what I have is something notoriously tricky to diagnose). Needless to say, I took to "House" immediately. Besides loving the puzzle-solving aspect of it, and having been through most of the tests they've used in the show more than once, his character reminds me so much of my advisor in grad school that it's been my favorite show from the first time I watched.

D4P: I'm glad to hear you're going to be OK, and I highly recommend you start watching the show. Having been through the ringer, you'll appreciate the medical parts of the show more than you would have before. Go back to the start - it's gotten a little melodramatic lately with long story arcs - but the first two seasons are gold.

GOLD, JERRY!

2006-12-13 16:10:45
120.   GoBears
118. How is the pooch, Marty? Back to full speed yet?
2006-12-13 16:15:27
121.   Linkmeister
95 Ah, ok. I get it now. Mine's a model 360; it's got the full length neck.

D4P, that's scary stuff; I'm glad the results were negative on the malignity.

2006-12-13 16:16:35
122.   trainwreck
104
I feel you D4P. I was told if I do not get better in a week I have to go in for a cancer screening.
2006-12-13 16:17:11
123.   Marty
120 Not yet. He still needs help relieving himself. I'm afraid that may not come back, but I'm holding out hope. But, he's happy and he gets around pretty well though. I take him on 10 mile mountain hikes on the weekends and he doesn't want to stop. He also wrestles just as hard with the other dog as he used to. I've settled into a nice routine so it's not been too bad taking care of him.
2006-12-13 16:23:57
124.   D4P
122
Yuck. Cancer comes out of nowhere. It's like that song says:

"Cancer like a silence grows"

2006-12-13 16:27:08
125.   GoBears
124. Oh, that ditty by Garmon and Sifunkel?
2006-12-13 16:32:23
126.   dkminnick
Hey D4P,

Glad to hear the good news. That can't have been a fun week for you and your family.

Be well,
Doug Minnick

2006-12-13 16:40:51
127.   Greg Brock
I'm calling Munchausen's on D4P.
2006-12-13 16:47:28
128.   trainwreck
Holy crud D4P! Sherdog says CroCop chose UFC.
2006-12-13 16:51:21
129.   Benaiah
104 - Geez man, that is rough. I bet you feel pretty happy right now, even with the collapsed lung and fluid and everything. Good luck.

99 - By sunk cost I mean that any contract will include that 51 million. So a 4 year contract gets ~13 million a year added to whatever you pay Matsuzaka, but at 6 that goes down to less than a Pierre added on. On the other hand, I don't really get why Matsuzaka would go for the 6 year contract. I guess it provides safety in case he stinks or gets hurt, but if he went for a reasonable 4 years then he would be a free agent at 29 and could actually get that 100 million Boras wanted.

2006-12-13 16:54:35
130.   Eric L
129 If I'm not mistaken, I think that Matsuzaka is subject to the same free agency rules as all MLBers (no free agency for 6 years), unless he would have insisted on a clause in his contract that Baez did.
2006-12-13 16:58:46
131.   Bob Timmermann
Hideki Matsui also got a contract clause allowing him to be a free agent after 3 years in MLB. But H. Matsui also came over as a free agent and wasn't posted.

I wonder if my employer will post me.

2006-12-13 17:12:32
132.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
129 Okay, but sunk cost is an economics term, meaning, in plain english, that you have already spent it, so you cannot make any present decisions based upon the money already spent. Colloquially, "don't throw good money after bad money". An example of this is how much money the Dodgers had already spent on Gagne's previous two years when deciding upon picking up (or not picking up) his option.

What I think you mean is fixed cost, where no matter what they pay him, the cost to the Sox is at least $51 M. The common parallel is what it costs to run your house: mortgage and property tax are fixed costs (you incur them no matter what), electricity and heat are variable costs (mothball your house and you won't spend that money).

2006-12-13 17:19:26
133.   A Slo
132

Fixed cost is far more accurate, and the contract would be described, from there, as the variable cost.

2006-12-13 17:21:02
134.   Jim Hitchcock
If Vinny had to sue somebody, I'm glad it was Stallone, an actor whose talents were best showcased in Woody Allen's `Bananas'(a
non-speaking role). Just my opinion...

Answer to thinkingblue from a couple of threads back: Check out the Fender Esquire Stratocasters; while they're not real Strats, their a well made, inexpensive guitar
with reasonable action (in other words, your fingers won't shred while shreding chords. Might want to check out Musician's Friend's catalog...

2006-12-13 17:26:45
135.   Jim Hitchcock
Hey, Bob T...ever see Sufferin Bruin posting anymore? Hope he's having a fine time at Locke High.
2006-12-13 17:28:39
136.   Bob Timmermann
135
He's at a different school now. He pops up from time to time. Like you.
2006-12-13 17:36:54
137.   natepurcell
Nationals make a good trade. Sam should fill us in on the 411!
2006-12-13 17:40:09
138.   Sam DC
Vidro traded to the Mariners for a couple of "prospects".

http://tinyurl.com/uou8s

I'll miss Vidro who had, ahem, a lot of heart, but fine of Mr. Bowden to get anything for him, even if it is a 25 year old OF prospect with like 45 surgeries under his belt and a well-regarded (but who's to see he'll keep it up) relief pitcher.

2006-12-13 17:41:21
139.   Sam DC
Hah, Nate was reading and typing as you posted yours.

D4P -- so happy for your, and sorry for the worry you must have gone through. Yick.

And very much hope you're feeling better soon trainwreck.

2006-12-13 17:44:37
140.   trainwreck
Thanks Sam.
2006-12-13 17:45:59
141.   Sam DC
Jon on Vidro, 7/6/05:

*After missing 54 games with an ankle injury suffered on a slide at home, Jose Vidro of Washington returned Tuesday - and had to slide at home.

"I tried to get my legs up, my knee up, so that I wouldn't get anything stuck out there," Vidro told The Associated Press. "But it was so exciting. You don't know how much this means to me. I almost cried. I'm not going to lie. I was so emotional. I love this game. I love to be out there, put my uniform on."

Hard not to like this guy after that...

2006-12-13 18:04:28
142.   Sam DC
Here's USS Mariner on the deal:

I guess we hope Vidro blows that physical like a horse in Enumclaw, because this is crazy."

2006-12-13 18:10:38
143.   Sam DC
USS Mariner link: http://tinyurl.com/ye74cz

The commenters there are acting like their GM just signed Juan Pierre to a 5 year, $45M contract.

2006-12-13 18:31:01
144.   Marty
Ooh Trainwreck, I missed your post. I hope it's nothing serious. Get better.
2006-12-13 18:38:47
145.   D4P
Thanks again to everyone for your support. I haven't yet heard from the ladies, but I guess that's to be expected...
2006-12-13 18:40:48
146.   Marty
You need to get out of Carolina. I blame the coal mines. Or the Tobacco farms. Or something.
2006-12-13 18:41:06
147.   trainwreck
Thanks, Marty.

Finally get to see Lakers on tv again.

2006-12-13 18:41:38
148.   trainwreck
Of course, it is right after they lose Odom.
2006-12-13 18:44:52
149.   Sam DC
Challenging and provocative analysis of the Vidro/Snelling/Fruto deal.

http://tinyurl.com/yk4jue

2006-12-13 18:47:19
150.   D4P
You need to get out of Carolina. I blame the coal mines. Or the Tobacco farms. Or something.

Yeah, we were blaming Carolina too. We were thinking maybe mold in our house or something. It's old and not well-maintained.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-12-13 18:48:39
151.   D4P
Sherdog says CroCop chose UFC

That's too bad. I guess we're in for 3 Crocop vs. Sylvia battles (with Crocop going 3-0), then who knows what after that.

2006-12-13 19:02:01
152.   Vishal
rickenbacker guitars seem decent, if you like that shimmery kind of tone. what i really want to get someday though is a rickenbacker 4003 bass. those sound absolutely amazing. i don't even play bass and i want one.
2006-12-13 19:15:47
153.   Vishal
[134] esquire? you mean the old 50s telecaster-looking guitar? or do you mean the "squier"? the first actual guitar i ever had was a fender squier strat, and it was TERRIBLE. i didn't know anything about guitars, but even i could tell it was just a lousy guitar. the electronics were bad, the tone was lousy, and i hated the bridge. so pretty soon i traded it in and upgraded to the epiphone and i was happy ever after. now i've got a gibson nighthawk and it's the best guitar i've ever played, outside of a brief moment i got to mess around with a vintage 1958 les paul special once.
2006-12-13 19:31:10
154.   das411
Wow. The Beatles, guitars, Springsteen, and Stallone vs Scully. I think I picked a good day to write a paper instead of duke it out with everybody here...
2006-12-13 19:47:37
155.   dzzrtRatt
D4P, I share your relief, and trainwreck, I hope for the best possible outcome for you.

We need more Festivus miracles.

2006-12-13 19:49:58
156.   Jon Weisman
Trainwreck - all my best wishes.
2006-12-13 19:51:09
157.   dzzrtRatt
79 I knew where to get bootleg albums in 1975. I have no idea where to get bootleg CDs now. Where do you guys find them?

Actually, I do know this one store in Redondo Beach, Go Boy Records, that occasionally had them. They are closing in about two weeks.

2006-12-13 19:52:28
158.   Greg Brock
Trainwreck, I totally missed that. All my best to the one Gaucho I don't despise right now (well, my sister too, I guess).
2006-12-13 19:53:57
159.   Vishal
best of luck to all the people trying to get well. i was recently sick for about a month and a half myself, so i sympathize.
2006-12-13 19:54:13
160.   Marty
Go Boy is closing? That's too bad. That was my favorite record store when I lived in the South Bay.
2006-12-13 19:56:39
161.   trainwreck
Thanks everyone.
2006-12-13 20:00:59
162.   Greg Brock
Dice-K
D-Mat
National Treasure
Fort Knox.

This guys hasn't even pitched an inning in the majors, and he has more nicknames than Michael Jordan.

Until future notice, I'm calling Matsuzaka "Fred"

2006-12-13 20:03:14
163.   trainwreck
If you ignore the posting fee, the Red Sox got their potential ace for less money than Gil Meche got.
2006-12-13 20:03:25
164.   trainwreck
163
per year.
2006-12-13 20:12:38
165.   Xeifrank
I know it's public information, but I really wonder if Vin Scully would want his lawsuit against Rambo IV to be rehashed in the public again. What would Vin do (WWVD)?
vr, Xei
2006-12-13 20:17:55
166.   Bob Timmermann
165
I don't think this is particularly scandalous or salacious. It's a rather mundane lawsuit.
2006-12-13 20:21:06
167.   El Lay Dave
Good luck D4P and trainwreck.

"Vindetta" is hilarious. I could listen to the mellifluous tones of Mr. Scully as he recites dry testimony regarding his waterlogged floors.

Employing Greg Brock's suggestion above, [162] below.

117 164 You can't ignore the posting fee. Boston's cost and therefore "Fred's" worth is $103.1 million over 6 years with a large frontloading. "Fred" may not get to pocket the posting fee (and Boras doesn't get a cut of it), but it is a measure of his worth, i.e. what Theo was willing to pay to get him. As a true free agent, I think "Fred"'s deal would be even bigger; instead of a posting fee upfront, more total dollars, including cheaper and later dollars, could be spread over the length of the contract. So maybe Boras underestimated (!) "Fred"'s open-market value.

2006-12-13 20:32:41
168.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
I could listen to the mellifluous tones of Mr. Scully as he recites dry testimony regarding his waterlogged floors.
Vin would employ the phrase "I can't believe it" at least once, I'd think.
2006-12-13 20:40:26
169.   Vishal
[167] but importantly, fred's posting fee doesn't count towards boston's luxury tax threshold.
2006-12-13 20:43:43
170.   Greg Brock
It's a good deal for Boston. They pay 6/103 for Fred, get a better pitcher than Zito, and open up a whole new market for them in Japan. The posting fee doesn't hurt their luxury tax, they cut into the Yankees following in the Far East, and now have a rotation with Schilling, Beckett, Papelbon, Matsuzaka, and who cares.

Lot of strikeouts in that rotation. Yay Fred!

2006-12-13 20:45:28
171.   D4P
Dear God:

Please let "who cares" be equal to Mark Hendrickson or Brett Tomko.

Thank you,

D4P

2006-12-13 20:54:49
172.   El Lay Dave
169 170 Good points, and I agree that it is a good deal for Boston - probably. The fact that the posting fee is all up front makes the deal effectively more costly for Boston, by whatever they could have made by having that money actually spread over 6 years. (8.5 million invested today yields how much for year 6? etc.)
2006-12-13 20:55:48
173.   El Lay Dave
I think "who cares" = Wakefield, which is about a perfect description.
2006-12-13 20:56:40
174.   Steve
On the red sox deal, the problem is that they are paying 50 million upfront, current, 2006 dollars - there is no present value discount on that money. It doesn't help in a case like Pierre's where he doesn't deserve lunch money in 2062, but used for good rather than evil it can have its uses in discounting. I suspect that if you ran the numbers on a present value basis, this would be in the top contracts ever given out (without quibbling about who gets the money - the red sox have to write the check regardless). But in any case this was an extraordinarily expensive deal.

Take care of yourself D4P. Remember that walmart has that new $4 prescription program.

2006-12-13 20:57:14
175.   worz
I apologize if this has been posted here before, but I ran across this new take on the "Dodger's Song" on Blue Heaven. It is definitely a hoot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvqO9q8yi-A

2006-12-13 20:57:23
176.   El Lay Dave
171 What are the odds that Ned can trick Theo into thinking he needs a lefty and that that man is the ex-basketball player?
2006-12-13 20:58:46
177.   Steve
What 172 said
2006-12-13 21:00:32
178.   D4P
Take care of yourself D4P. Remember that walmart has that new $4 prescription program.

Thanks. I will help further point 1 by not taking "advantage" of point 2.

2006-12-13 21:04:39
179.   twerp
D4P, Trainwreck....best wishes.
2006-12-13 21:05:03
180.   trainwreck
Do not forget Lester. He is scheduled to be ready for spring training.
2006-12-13 21:10:15
181.   Steve
176 - I like the orioles as a dark horse here. That seems like the kind of team that would fall for the American league east canard (see Baez, Danys - well, actually do yourself a favor and don't).

Well, D4P, even if you decide to pay the outrageously high prices of a walgreen's or CVS, my best to you.

2006-12-13 21:12:31
182.   Steve
And you as well trainwreck.
2006-12-13 21:16:02
183.   dsfan
As 172 and 174 noted and as was noted in this forum earlier this month, having to pony up $51.1 million in one payment adds significant cost of the deal. Disappointing but not surprising that Gammons excluded this tidbit from his exultant review of the deal today. Still on balance I give the Red Sox credit for being bold and imaginative. I also believe that the Red Sox will offset the $51.1 million upfront expense by doing something creative with Seibu that is outside the purview of MLB.

I am still waiting for a story that explains why the Dodgers gave five years to Pierre. Understood that they liked him and were willing to overpay, but it remains untold how they allowed the negotiations to mushroom to that commitment.

2006-12-13 21:19:46
184.   Marty
We need to get these people well, so we can go back to our jaded selves.
2006-12-13 21:20:08
185.   D4P
but it remains untold how they allowed the negotiations to mushroom to that commitment

I've been waiting for such an explanation too, but it has seemingly been glossed over. Did Ned want 5 years, or was that Pierre's idea? Would he not have signed for fewer years? Did he have offers from other teams? Did Ned feel pressure? Who gave in and in what way? It didn't seem like the negotiation process was drawn out at all, so was there any give and take or did they reach agreement almost immediately?

2006-12-13 21:21:58
186.   Greg Brock
There's no telling how much revenue this will mean for the Red Averages overseas. Hats, Jerseys, commemorative Fred bobbleheads. Maybe even a Mr. Sparkle Special Edition laundry box.

They'll make some money back.

2006-12-13 21:22:41
187.   Vishal
[175] that was excellent. quality production.
2006-12-13 21:29:14
188.   Steve
185 - Colletti would very likely tell you a big long story about the present value of Pierre's fifth year. Then he will call my mother and congratulate her for all the money she "saved" at the Robinson's sale last week.
2006-12-13 21:31:21
189.   Louis in SF
170

I think 170 has it right when you look at the overall benefit to the franchise. Taking away the posting fee for a second, the actual fee the Red Sox give Dmat works out to about 8.5 mill per year. If he meets or exceeds expectations in his frist 3 years,adding his arm to a solid rotation and still some top notch hitters the Red Sox would have a great chance to get to the Series and beat out the Yankees. A better bullpen will make them that much tougher.

As far as the 51 million posting fee, Dodger fans only have to remember Nomo mania with all of the Japanese media and I believe the first two seasons telecast back to Japan. Domestic cable and jersey sales weren't has developed, now with more ads on NESAN, a pipeline to high quality players in Asia, thinking of the 51 million has a marketing investment in the worth of the franchise-it is a great move.

2006-12-13 21:35:19
190.   Steve
189 - that last point (and therefore, the first as well) is excellent.
2006-12-13 21:39:24
191.   Greg Brock
Maybe we can post Mark Hendrickson to the Serbian Professional Baseball League.
2006-12-13 21:41:42
192.   trainwreck
Or a Serbian basketball league.
2006-12-13 21:48:00
193.   Steve
What would they do with him?
2006-12-13 21:48:30
194.   StolenMonkey86
174 - Interesting question. Fortunately, I have a calculator with an annuity bank.

I'm working with $51.1 million posting fee, $52 million over 6 salary, and a 5% interest rate.

If we take Matsuzaka's salary to be paid at the end of each month for 6 years in equal payments, then that will be $44.99 Million. Add $51.1 million now, and it works out to $96.1 million for a present discounted value.

Assuming that same interest rate and time period, that's $111.1 million, or $18.51 million per year over 6 years.

2006-12-13 21:49:28
195.   Vishal
[192] i think the serbians are probably pretty good at basketball. he'd have a better shot at the baseball league.
2006-12-13 21:50:08
196.   Steve
194 -- Thank you. Please compare to the contract of Mr. Soriano and a hypothetical 103.1 million contract to Barry Zito, payable over 6 years.
2006-12-13 21:50:33
197.   StolenMonkey86
194
Assuming that same interest rate and time period, that's $111.1 million, or $18.51 million per year over 6 years.

That is, that would be the contract of equivalent PDV assuming the same 5% interest rate. In case you're wondering, if the interest rate increases, the contract is higher, but if the interest rate decreases, the contract is lower.

2006-12-13 21:54:10
198.   StolenMonkey86
196
PDV of Soriano's contract at i=5%: $112.4 million
PDV of 103.1 over 6 with Zito at i=5%: $89.2 million

But I'm calling 6 years, $120 million for Zito, so
PDV Zito at 6/$120m, i=5%: $103.8 million

2006-12-13 21:55:25
199.   StolenMonkey86
178 - I guess #1 and #2 do go together.
2006-12-13 21:56:57
200.   thinkingblue
152.

Yeah, they sound good, especially with chords, good for rhythem guitarists. But if you want to shred, or play heavy rock or metal you probably don't want to go for a rickenbaker IMO.

But I really like Rickenbacker basses, I know someone with one, and I've played it and it sounds good.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-12-13 21:59:17
201.   Daniel Zappala
So I was just looking at the Dodger roster and noticed a kid named Zachary Hammes is on it. Several questions -- why is he on the roster? Why him and not some other minor leaguer? What does it mean if a minor leaguer is not on the roster? Maybe someone can point me to a roster primer.
2006-12-13 22:01:38
202.   StolenMonkey86
Juan Pierre, then, is a little trickier because of the variable salary, but the PDV of his contract comes down to $38.8 million. Not as drastic an effect because 5 years is shorter than 6, obviously.
2006-12-13 22:01:54
203.   trainwreck
195
They are, but heck he made the NBA for awhile.
2006-12-13 22:04:52
204.   thinkingblue
Best to you trainwreck, please...
2006-12-13 22:10:13
205.   StolenMonkey86
122

D4P and Trainwreck, best wishes from me, too.

2006-12-13 22:12:54
206.   Jason in Canada
195 203 Maybe we can pull off that trade for Iverson afterall..?!?! I'm sure the Sixers could use Hendrickson in the middle and we can never have to many speedy guys at the top of the order..
2006-12-13 22:14:49
207.   Greg Brock
If Iverson's shot selection is any indication, we'd be looking at about 32 walks in 750 plate appearances...

Just like Juan Pierre.

2006-12-13 22:24:46
208.   trainwreck
From Yahoo.com on Vidro trade

"The trade was agreed upon between the clubs Friday, but both sides needed Vidro's approval since he has a no-trade clause. Vidro was told by Seattle manager Mike Hargrove he would be a designated hitter and a backup at third, second and first base."

2006-12-13 22:27:18
209.   bhsportsguy
Well, the shoe has dropped but not ticket prices, per tomorrow's L.A. Times.

In season packages, baseline seats range from $60 to $150 (compared to $50 to $150 last season), field level seats from $30 to $70 (up from $22 to $60), loge seats from $20 to $55 (up from $16 to $45) and reserved seats from $8 to $20 (up from $8 to $16).

Pavilion seats remain $6. Top deck seats rose from $3 to $4.

http://tinyurl.com/yjeamm

2006-12-13 22:41:57
210.   Jason in Canada
"Colletti controls perhaps the most stacked Minor League system in baseball, and it must mean something to him. Other than the curious dealing of Joel Guzman for Julio Lugo,he's kept every big name."

It would seem Ken Gurnick has been mentioning the "curious" part a bit lately..

2006-12-13 22:48:26
211.   Uncle Miltie
209- I don't mind a little extra to see guys like Jason Schmidt in a Dodgers uniform. Juan Pierre is a different story...
2006-12-13 23:06:21
212.   WellsforKemp
I don't mind a little extra to see guys like Jason Schmidt in a Dodgers uniform. Juan Pierre is a different story...

interesting point that we may be literally paying more to see Juan Pierre play....

2006-12-13 23:07:45
213.   Eric L
201 The Neyer Transaction primer has pretty good info on what you are looking for.

http://tinyurl.com/buqrv

Read the stuff for the rule 5 draft to understand when and why a player needs to be on a 40 man roster.

2006-12-13 23:07:45
214.   Uncle Miltie
That should have said "paying a little extra"
2006-12-13 23:23:42
215.   Eric Enders
201 "So I was just looking at the Dodger roster and noticed a kid named Zachary Hammes is on it. Several questions -- why is he on the roster? Why him and not some other minor leaguer? What does it mean if a minor leaguer is not on the roster? Maybe someone can point me to a roster primer."

Hammes is a 6-foot-6 reliever who supposedly throws in the upper 90s. He's been in our system for 4 years, so we either had to put him on the 40-man roster or expose him to the Rule 5 draft, where he almost certainly would have been taken. His minor league career has been inconsistent at best, but I think the hope is that he can develop into the next in the Broxton/Meloan line of flamethrowing relievers.

This year BA rated him the 15th best prospect in the Hawaii Winter League, where he posted a 1.23 ERA with 18 Ks in 14 innings.

The fact that he's on the roster doesn't necessarily make him the best prospect in the world... it's just that guys like Elbert, DeWitt, and Kershaw haven't been in the system long enough to be exposed to the Rule 5 draft, which is why they're not on the 40-man even though they're better prospects than Hammes.

2006-12-13 23:40:18
216.   LAT
The hot stove season has concluded and DT posters devote an entire thread to Sly Stallone. . .Its official, we have reached the low point of the off-season.
2006-12-13 23:43:21
217.   Uncle Miltie
My friend just sent me this. It turns out that 9/11 conspiracy theorist who spoke in my Sociology class last year was right.
http://tinyurl.com/uvarm

You must read the entire thing.

2006-12-13 23:47:01
218.   Eric Enders
216 I prefer to look at it as us devoting an entire thread to Vin Scully.
2006-12-13 23:55:07
219.   trainwreck
217
I just scrolled till the end.
2006-12-13 23:55:55
220.   trainwreck
Ok that was pretty funny.
2006-12-13 23:56:48
221.   trainwreck
220
Certain spots.
2006-12-13 23:57:25
222.   LAT
218. Well when you put it that way, things are looking up around here.

Long as we're talking about Vin and his legal disputes, I can add that I have been before Judge Wolf many many times and he was a good judge.

2006-12-14 00:04:53
223.   Greg Brock
217 I must have missed something. What happened on Sept 11th?

I admit, I don't follow much news.

2006-12-14 00:09:16
224.   trainwreck
223
I am resisting all temptation.
2006-12-14 00:11:03
225.   trainwreck
Dakota Fanning is 50 times more mature than I am. It shows in her acting.
2006-12-14 00:30:34
226.   StolenMonkey86
217 - South Park had the best explanation this season.
2006-12-14 01:19:29
227.   El Lay Dave
223 September 11. It was a travel day with the Dodgers moving from a weekend series in New York to a Tuesday Cubs game in Wrigley.
2006-12-14 06:57:46
228.   Bumsrap
As much as I dislike participating in the Sly posts, one thought I might share is the one I had about what kind of a neighbor Sly might be for a person like Vinnie to sue him for punitive damages to the tune of $7,000,000.

And to throw something in that is actually about the Dodgers, I think the Dodgers should now just wait until at least June before making a trade.

2006-12-14 07:04:06
229.   Benaiah
223 - I think that Larry's rabbi's cousin was hit by a bike messenger that day.
2006-12-14 07:09:35
230.   Sam DC
The Post's obit for Peter Boyle is headlined "Peter Boyle Put Ritz in Role as 'Raymond' Dad." Nice reference, but maybe trying a little too hard.
2006-12-14 07:21:30
231.   we are infinite
223 It's OK, we can forgive you for not being up on your Chilean history. But since Pinochet's death recently made headlines, now is as good a time as ever to catch up :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_coup_of_1973

2006-12-14 07:37:45
232.   Midwest Blue
Maybe Ned has tapped into something with his signing of players who "want" to play for the Dodgers:

Southern California sends so many of its prep players to the big leagues that eventually, in this era of free agency, that has to work in the favor of the Dodgers, Angels and Padres.

For sure, the Dodgers benefited this offseason...

But, then again, Southern California has its own appeal.

"Not just for guys from here, but for everybody," said Lieberthal. "San Diego was always a big place, and the Dodgers. The trips to (division rivals) San Francisco, Colorado and Arizona are all good places to play. People love playing in Dodger Stadium."

There is something to be said for Dodgers tradition, too, an intangible that two other free agent acquisitions, Luis Gonzalez and Jason Schmidt, referred to Wednesday...

Gonzalez nodded toward Tommy Lasorda during Wednesday's news conference and joked, "Tommy doesn't even have to give me the speech. I'm ready to bleed Dodger blue."

Schmidt grew up in Washington, but said, "I come from a Dodgers household and I married into a Dodgers household."

http://tinyurl.com/yxcdjb

2006-12-14 07:51:55
233.   Sam DC
Nice profile of Joel Hanrahan by a Nats blogger, with photos including a shot of Hanrahan pitching for the Suns for Nate.

http://tinyurl.com/yc299n

2006-12-14 08:40:30
234.   Bob Timmermann
I realized my souvenir Dodgers/Panda Express calendar I received was cursed.

December has pictures of Greg Maddux and Eric Gagne.

January is JD Drew.

February is Brad Penny.

It's not a calendar! It's a cookbook!

2006-12-14 08:46:14
235.   Midwest Blue
234 LOL

Can somebody with Insider give me the lowdown on what Marc Stein says about the A.I. to Lakers rumors? Pretty please??

2006-12-14 08:48:59
236.   Bob Timmermann
235
Stein didn't think it was likely since the Lakers don't need a player like Iverson.
2006-12-14 08:52:35
237.   D4P
Can someone explain why Iverson is considered "great"? For his career, he is a 42% shooter from the floor, including 31% from 3-point range. Oh: and he's a 78% free-throw shooter.

Why is it impressive to average 30 points a game if it take 25 shots to get there? Pretty much anyone in the league could do that, if their coach allowed them to...

2006-12-14 08:53:42
238.   Midwest Blue
236 Thank you very much, Mr. T.

Though, having A.I.'s firepower could help get through the next month without Odom.

2006-12-14 08:56:24
239.   Benaiah
237 - D4P meet the Wages of Wins. According to them K.G. is far and away the best basketball player of the past decade and A.I. is far and way the most overrated.
2006-12-14 08:57:20
240.   Benaiah
Here is a link to the blog:
http://dberri.wordpress.com/
2006-12-14 09:02:53
241.   Hythloday
238 Then they could play some Villanova style ball:

Vujacic
Iverson
Bryant
Walton
Brown

2006-12-14 09:03:11
242.   Benaiah
Here is a comment entirely about AI.
http://tinyurl.com/y44uop
2006-12-14 09:03:49
243.   D4P
240
Yeah, I was just looking at that. Interesting stuff.
2006-12-14 09:12:58
244.   Benaiah
243 - Extremely. A lot of people don't like Berri, but that just makes me think he is on to something. I have always thought that K.G. got shafted. Here is a guy who always scores 20+, leads the league in rebounds, doles out 4-6 assists, and more than a steal and a block a game, all with high percentages and reasonable turnovers. Basically, he is doing every thing possible to help his team win. But because somehow they weren't winning it was his fault. It reminds me of David Cross's rant about AD. (I paraphrase) Maybe when you have a show that can't attract an audience, but it's winning Emmy's and Golden Globes, the problem isn't the show, but the marketing.
2006-12-14 09:21:35
245.   D4P
244
Well, you can't feel too sorry for good players on bad teams. While they may be overlooked for MVP awards or not considered "winners," they still get paid primarily according to their own individual stats.

I like the general idea, though, of trying to shine the light on sports "myths".

2006-12-14 09:26:20
246.   Bob Timmermann
245
Then we should send you the link to the Slate article on why John Wooden is evil.
2006-12-14 09:28:50
247.   D4P
246
Is the myth that Wooden is good or that he is evil?
2006-12-14 09:30:25
248.   Midwest Blue
247 Don't tell me you went to SC?
2006-12-14 09:30:47
249.   DodgerHobbit
233

I hope the Dodgers find a way to re-acquire him. He looked really good on the 51's near the end of the season. Better than Stults and way better than Hull.

2006-12-14 09:44:37
250.   Benaiah
249 - Probably not going to happen. I hate that he never got much of a shot in the bigs and eventually just got given away. Good luck on the Nats, he might do very well in that park.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-12-14 09:48:41
251.   Benaiah
245 - I just don't like the idea of real accomplishment being overlooked in favor of wrongheaded traditional thinking. I don't like it when the Oscars awarded Crash, I hate it that "Grey's Anatomy" and reality shows trump "Veronica Mars" and "The Office", and I especially don't like it when my favorite teams signs Juan Pierre. So I wish that K.G. would get the props he deserves over A.I.
2006-12-14 09:55:46
252.   D4P
I just don't like the idea of real accomplishment being overlooked in favor of wrongheaded traditional thinking

I agree. I'm just saying that some degree of "props" is reflected in a player's salary. I'm sure most players would prefer big bucks with no props over props but lesser money.

2006-12-14 09:58:27
253.   Benaiah
252 - To be fair, it isn't a zero sum game. A.I. has probably made far more money than K.G. if anything. But I agree, I would be put in the stocks five days a week for enough money.
2006-12-14 10:02:21
254.   D4P
As long as Walmart is America's most popular store, crap like According to Jim, Becker, and America's Dumbest Dumb-dumbs will continue to keep the Arrested Developments of the world off the air.
2006-12-14 10:16:04
255.   Bob Timmermann
D4P
I emailed you the link to the Slate article.

I bet John Wooden would like to shop at Walmart!

2006-12-14 10:17:36
256.   goblue1
Lets see Bonds hit under 21 HRs this year and make the Giants out bid themselves for him, again in 2008.

I love it.

Almost as much as I love the Blue Crew this year.

2006-12-14 10:26:21
257.   D4P
255
Thanks. Not sure what to make of it, in that I don't know enough about Wooden to have my own opinion.
2006-12-14 10:30:32
258.   Daniel Zappala
215 Thanks, Eric. Seems like the Dodgers will lose space to keep players like Hammes on the roster as they accummulate more talent in the minors. I remember at this time last year we were worrying about this. Anyone know the current state of our system well enough to know if we will be having Rule-5 problems in the coming year?
2006-12-14 10:40:40
259.   Greg Brock
257 It's okay. I'll let you borrow my opinion. Make sure I get it back at some point.
2006-12-14 10:41:17
260.   Daniel Zappala
215 Thanks, Eric. Seems like the Dodgers will lose space to keep players like Hammes on the roster as they accummulate more talent in the minors. I remember at this time last year we were worrying about this. Anyone know the current state of our system well enough to know if we will be having Rule-5 problems in the coming year?
2006-12-14 10:43:21
261.   D4P
259
All right: what is it?
2006-12-14 10:44:42
262.   Steve
Remember, beggars can't be choosers.
2006-12-14 10:49:03
263.   Marty
D4P, ask Greg about his opinion of Pete Carroll. It's about the same as Lasorda's opinion of Kingman's performance.
2006-12-14 10:50:12
264.   D4P
beggars can't be choosers

Only at Walmart

2006-12-14 10:50:42
265.   Greg Brock
I can elaborate later, but I was not impressed with the article.

To say the least.

2006-12-14 10:52:50
266.   D4P
Does anyone really want to see "the dunkshot" eliminated? For that matter, does anyonre really want to call it "the dunkshot"?
2006-12-14 10:52:52
267.   natepurcell
anyone want to take my business statistics final for me?
2006-12-14 10:57:05
268.   D4P
267
No thanks, women's billiards is coming up on ESPN2.
2006-12-14 10:58:42
269.   natepurcell
come on d4p, its on your favorite stuff.

you know, regression, variance, chi-square analysis type stuff.

hopefully 2 hours is long enough of time to learn a 1/3 semesters worth of material :)

2006-12-14 11:00:58
270.   DodgerHobbit
I just don't like the idea of real accomplishment being overlooked in favor of wrongheaded traditional thinking

I strongly disagree.

So much so I imagined A.I. at a press conference repeating over and over, "We talkin' 'bout Oscars?"

Movies are, when it comes down to it, just entertainment. Some people make movies with the sole object of having the most people that year come to see the movie they are making. Some make movies with the intent no one but themself will ever see it. Some movie makers target people just like you to make you a disciple and evangelist for their movie. Others target the people you least like to be their discipes and evangilists.

It's just taste.

That is why I don't think there are any 'real accomplishments' in the world of movies and tv. Placing value judgments like what is a "real accomplishment" in the realm of entertainment and what is "wrongheaded traditional thinking" in entertainment is akin to going to an ice cream parlor and saying Baskin Robbins is a "wrong headed traditional thinking" ice cream parlor for carrying vanilla. It is just ice cream! It is supposed to taste good on your tongue (some get bored of it, some don't) as tv and movies are supposed to appeal to your eyes and ears ( and in limited attempts smell). Yes, tv and movies do more than just entertain. They can inform, educate and alot of other razzmataz. Other things usually do better (like a lot of other food items probably nourish better). But two movies in the same genre with the same purpose and one will be more appealing to a random population of 1,000 people than another because it was more enjoyable to watch. That is preference. Not any kind of intellectual genius in filmaking.

You may not like movie or tv show X, but alot of others apparently do.
That doesn't make them any less than you.

For the record I don't watch any of the shows mentioned. I watch very little t.v. Shows I regularly watch are House (wife), Little People, Big World...and that is about it right now. When American Idol starts up again I will be a captive audience again due to my wife :(
Maybe I'd feel differently if I'd watch these shows. But if I did, I'd just be arguing from my own personal preference.

2006-12-14 11:04:40
271.   Eric Enders
263 "He hit three home runs against us?"

260 The Rule 5 rules were changed with the new CBA this year, so from now on teams will get an extra year before they have to expose guys to the draft. This will lessen the roster squeeze considerably, I think. In past years guys like Hammes and Mike Megrew might have been exposed, but under the new rules we were able to fit him on the roster. I don't foresee too many Rule 5 problems for the Dodgers in the near future. Actually, I wonder if the Rule 5 draft might become even more irrelevant than it already is.

2006-12-14 11:06:52
272.   Bob Timmermann
266
Wooden's "dunkshot" comments were written in 1972. I've never heard him say that the dunk should be outlawed in recent years. He obviously knows that the game is vastly different from when he coached with the addition of the shot clock and the 3-pointer.

I think that in UCLA's heyday, the shot clock and 3-pointer would have made UCLA's margins of victory even larger as they would have just run teams off the floor.

2006-12-14 11:26:56
273.   Tangled Up in Blue
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet but according to Ben Maller...
"Kevin Towers said the Padres are making a pitch for outfielder Jayson Werth, who became a free agent on Tuesday when the Dodgers didn't offer him a contract. Towers said that assistant Paul DePodesta is handling the negotiations".
2006-12-14 11:28:56
274.   GoBears
I've heard Wooden more recently admit that the dunk is a good thing because, after all, it's a pretty high percentage shot. Wooden was about results first.

I'm sure he'd prefer it if dunkers would just drop the ball in, rather than slam it and then pose, but he's come around on the shot itself.

Remember, dunking WAS outlawed when Lew Alcindor was at UCLA - maybe even when Walton was (I don't remember the year they scrapped that rule).

The Slate article was terrible. Not because it dared attack an icon (I'm all for iconoclasm) but because it had nothing useful to say about anything. It was, like this comment, a waste of bandwidth.

2006-12-14 11:30:55
275.   GoBears
273. Figures.
2006-12-14 11:33:19
276.   Bob Timmermann
The Cardinals are supposedly interested in Werth as well. He's from Springfield, IL, so he knows the territory. Juan Encarnacion just had wrist surgery, so maybe they could swap stories.
2006-12-14 11:34:55
277.   Tangled Up in Blue
I knew this was going to happen. I would hate to see him come back to hurt us, especially within our division.

Actually the first two teams I thought of were the Padres and Giants.

2006-12-14 11:35:34
278.   Marty
Sidney Wicks used the dunking ban to a pretty nice effect against Artis Gilmore.
2006-12-14 11:43:22
279.   Benaiah
270 - As a philosophy major I can understand where you are coming from. You are saying that art is subjective and has no objective standards (if you were talking about morals this would make you a Mackie nihilist). I agree with you to the point that there isn't a cosmic standard or Platonic form that determines what a "good" movie or tv show is.

However, beyond the first order (what is) there is the second order (what should be). Thus, while it isn't universally agreed upon that there is an objective morality, we do have laws. Similarly, there are standards by which people can assess the value of art. These standards aren't universally applied, and some people only use "truthiness" to appraise art. The fact that nothing will satisfy 1000 out of 1000 people is completely besides the point. Some art is better than others, the ranking can be debated, but not the fact that there is a ranking. Otherwise, why do we even have things like the Oscars, Emmys or MVP award?

2006-12-14 12:03:06
280.   Eric Enders
Wooden on the passing of the no-dunking rule in 1967:

"I was very much surprised and disappointed."
- Washington Post, 3/29/67

"It has taken away something exciting from the fans. It's something they enjoyed very much."

Wooden said the reasons for enacting the rule "don't add up. I've never heard of an injury on the dunk and only two cases of a broken basket because of hanging on the rim."
-Chicago Tribune, 4/23/67

2006-12-14 12:03:59
281.   Uncle Miltie
anyone want to take my business statistics final for me?
Sure, if you come to my school and take my calc class for me next semester :)

I've already statistics, it was too bad. Just think of everything in baseball terms.

I finished my finals Tuesday and I'm driving home today.

2006-12-14 12:08:06
282.   Xeifrank
RIP Lamar Hunt.
An elementary school family tree project discovered that we were related. But you had to go back nearly 200 years to make the connection. I'm pretty confident I wasn't included in his will. vr, Xei
2006-12-14 12:09:48
283.   Benaiah
279 - As an addendum let me add that I wrote a paper defending Mackie nihilism and I don't at all consider it to be an insult.
2006-12-14 12:10:40
284.   Eric Enders
282 I feel like an ignoramus lately because I'd never heard of either Peter Boyle or Lamar Hunt.
2006-12-14 12:14:08
285.   Sushirabbit
The only possible reason I can come up for signing Pierre, is that you really, really just wanted to hang on to your young players, but wanted to get a "good" centerfielder before the market got out of hand.

This presumes Coletti knew the market would get out of hand.

And that Pierre is "good".

It still doesn't make any sense to me.

2006-12-14 12:23:19
286.   Bob Timmermann
284
Really? You never heard of either man? You grew up in Texas and never heard of the Hunt family?

Even if it was El Paso, that's surprising.

No stunning.

No, the word is flabbergasted.

Or possibly flummoxed.

2006-12-14 12:29:32
287.   GoBears
Wow, Eric. You really a baseball-only guy, aren't you... Lamar Hunt deserves about 10 times the adulation and ESPN TV time that Bo Schembechler got. He and Pete Rozelle basically created the modern NFL. And I met him once (a few years ago in the lobby of the Chiefs' team hotel in Appleton, Wisconsin). He was every bit the gentelman they're making him out to be.

The only thing that surprised me was that he was only 74. That means he founded the AFL when he was 30! Must be nice to be rich.

2006-12-14 12:31:09
288.   Eric Enders
286 I didn't grow up in Texas, I grew up in El Paso. And I sort of make it a point to ignore the NFL. I think there are only 2 NFL players who I'd recognize if I passed them on the street (Vince Young and Peyton Manning... and Ricky Williams -- does he still play?)

Peter Boyle, I have no excuses, since I saw and liked both Young Frankenstein and The Candidate.

2006-12-14 12:35:59
289.   Eric Enders
"Wow, Eric. You really a baseball-only guy, aren't you..."

Well, not really. I follow a few sports:

1. MLB
1a. College basketball
3. Minor league baseball
4. College football
5. College baseball

and then there's the following, the existence of which I'm only vaguely aware of...
NHL
NBA
NFL
MLS
WNBA
PGA
tennis
etc etc

2006-12-14 12:36:44
290.   Bob Timmermann
288
You mean you've never seen a match in the Lamar Hunt US Open Cup competition? For shame.

I'm not getting you a Rochester Raging Rhinos t-shirt for Christmas now.

2006-12-14 12:39:22
291.   Bob Timmermann
287
But Bo Schembechler died at a time when his story could be inserted into an event that ABC/ESPN was televising.

Lamar Hunt's death doesn't fit in to any ESPN event.

2006-12-14 12:40:21
292.   Jason in Canada
273 Jason Werth will come back to haunt the Dodgers at some point. That is if he ever plays again. I'm telling you, there was something to having an entire outfield of Jason's... Now wse may never know...
2006-12-14 12:42:46
293.   Bob Timmermann
292
Except that he's a Jayson.
2006-12-14 12:42:49
294.   Jason in Canada
Hey Bob, do you follow the USL at all? Our Vancouver Whitecaps won it all this year...
2006-12-14 12:44:29
295.   Jason in Canada
We have a small wing in our Jason clubhouse for those that are either creative or illiterate with our fine name.
2006-12-14 12:54:03
296.   Bob Timmermann
294
I should at least get credit for knowing that the USL exists.
2006-12-14 13:03:29
297.   Sam DC
Is that a sled dog league or something?
2006-12-14 13:03:44
298.   Eric Enders
[Hastily Googles "USL"]
2006-12-14 13:23:01
299.   Steve
Ja(y)son
2006-12-14 13:24:02
300.   Jason in Canada
The Whitecaps have Martin Nash, Steve's little brother on the team and defeated Sunderland from the Premier league 3-0 in July of 2005. That my friends is not dog sledding.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-12-14 13:28:36
301.   blue22
287 - Lamar Hunt is also credited with coining the term "Super Bowl".
2006-12-14 13:28:52
302.   ToyCannon
I remember when the Hunt brothers tried to corral the silver market. My 1st real boss at the time invested all his money when silver hit about 50 if I remember right. Within months he had lost everything because he was margined up the whazoo. It was a good lesson for me but mighty hard on him and his family. Even earlier I remember Lamar and Dawson and rooted hard for the KC upset of the Viking after Kapp hurdled Petibon and beat the Rams in a game the Rams should have won.
2006-12-14 13:31:41
303.   Jason in Canada
You know, I have now lived in the great white north 4 years and have yet to see a dog sled. I've seen a few Siberian Huskies, who might have dog relatives in the sport, but no actual dog sleds.
2006-12-14 13:32:43
304.   Bob Timmermann
I think the Chiefs win over the Vikings in Super Bowl IV was greatly helped by the call of :

65 Toss Power Trap!

2006-12-14 13:36:05
305.   katysdad
Lamar Hunt came up with the name Super Bowl while watching his daughter bounce a ball. He asked her was she was playing with and she told him it was a super ball.
2006-12-14 13:36:43
306.   Marty
302 Damn, I was going to mention the Hunt Bros. silver grab. That was the first time I heard a practical application of the phrase "corner the market".
2006-12-14 13:44:41
307.   Robert Daeley
279 I don't think the existence of ranking is the real issue, however -- it's what the ranking is, well, ranking.

Looking at a list of Best Picture Oscar nominees and winners, like this,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Picture

provides data for what makes a Best Picture, but beyond certain broad generalizations, we probably cannot construct a truly useful rubric for who will win any given year. Even if we could, that is but one ranking matrix.

And if one person assumes a certain set of criteria for Best Picture, then he/she likely will be disappointed and aghast at the final winner, which is not judged on the same criteria.

Which also explains why Ned Colletti and others are happy with the Juan Pierre, while others are surprised Colletti hasn't already committed seppuku in shame.

2006-12-14 13:51:13
308.   Marty
I wish I could have seen this (via Miami Herald):

Catcher A.J. Pierzynski of the 2005 world champion Chicago White Sox picked a fight with World Series MVP David Eckstein of the 2006 world champion St. Louis Cardinals during the TNA pay-per-view Turning Point on Sunday, Dec. 10 from Universal Studios Orlando.

Pierzynski had a shoving match with Eckstein. Pierzynski's pal Dale Torborg, the strength and conditioning coach for the White Sox and formerly the Demon in WCW, slugged Eckstein's brother, Rick, a minor league coach.

2006-12-14 13:54:41
309.   Marty
I now question the validity of the fight. It was at a wrestling event, so it's suspect.
2006-12-14 14:01:21
310.   Sushirabbit
Is anyone else disappointed that Google hasn't bought and redirected www.thegoogle.com?
2006-12-14 14:11:44
311.   trainwreck
I am just waiting for Greg Brock to inform us that Bo Schembechler is still dead.
2006-12-14 14:24:39
312.   jasonungar05
Dodgers GM Ned Colletti was on our XM show the other day and told us he's surprised by the prices that have set the market this year. Colletti admitted that he didn't really want to give Juan Pierre five years at $44 million, but felt he had to do so. He said that over the years the teams with which he has been associated have never had much speed and with so many one-run games, he feels speed is an intangible that can lead to a win in the late innings. Pierre is that kind of guy and that's why the GM felt compelled to pay him what had become market value. I'll tell you one thing. He's absolutely right about speed. It wins

from sports illustrated

2006-12-14 14:28:21
313.   trainwreck
Has Ned been reading the Al Davis guide to scouting?
2006-12-14 14:32:37
314.   Greg Brock
Wow, Bob got linked at Deadspin.
2006-12-14 14:39:59
315.   Eric Enders
314 Not only linked him, but shamelessly ripped off his Neifi joke (changing it to Tony Womack).
2006-12-14 14:43:23
316.   Sam DC
I just gotta think Icaros added that last comment after the Deadspin link came through.

It's more Deadspin than Griddle, dontchya think?

2006-12-14 14:45:26
317.   Eric Enders
316 Be careful what you ask for.
http://www.dvd.net.au/movies/s/05627-5.jpg
2006-12-14 14:45:38
318.   Steve
That signing only gets more depressing, if only because the justifications for it become ever more bizarre.
2006-12-14 14:45:44
319.   DodgerHobbit
I'm apologizing in advance for such a long o/t post but B makes a good point. Promise I won't blather on past this post. /bow to B

279
why do we even have things like the Oscars, Emmys or MVP award?

Because we are political animals and we like popularity contests.

The Oscars are just as meaningful as a Gold Glove is in baseball. We have awards because we as people like to validate our own preferences and/or observations, that's all...to me anyways. It is just another marketing tool. It generates excitement in the fan base that follows that form of entertainment.

The second order (what should be) is just another way of stating the preferences of a majority (or powerful minority) of people in a certain culture at a particular time. Two important things about the standards by art is appraised it varies by culture and changes with time. Subcultures become majority cultures and cultures and their standards die. What was popular or acceptable changes. Taboos change. Laws change. Arguably even the institutions behind such things change. So to me it just comes back to a popularity contest in that snapshot of time and place. To me the standards are always changing, sometimes even regressing.

Alot of art comes into and falls out of the mainstream far removed in time from when it was created. That either invalidates the standards judging the art when it was created or the future standards that appraises the art as worthy of recognition.

I will admit I'm very jaded and pessimistic. The older I get, the less movies tug at me in an emotional way. Either I've already been tugged at that way and the first cut is the deepest (most meaningful to me) or I just see an expensive feature length commercial that happened to exploit my human failings for T&A or something.

It was cool to hook up with a fellow philosophy major...I'm about 10 years removed from being an undergrad...good times.

2006-12-14 15:07:26
320.   Sam DC
Wow -- feeling frustrated reading about Juan "gets on base alot" Pierre and Luis "doubles" Gonzales? Give this a read: http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/
2006-12-14 15:26:13
321.   jasonungar05
You guys have an idea on what I should get my wife for x-mas. I tried for dodger season seats but she felt that was a bit egocentric of me.
2006-12-14 15:33:23
322.   Eric Enders
So I take it she wouldn't like the batting robot?
2006-12-14 15:34:27
323.   GoBears
312 You know what is an even better way to score a run late in a close game?

A HR. Only requires one player. Why manufacture runs when you can buy them off the shelf.

2006-12-14 15:35:47
324.   GoBears
I should have made clear that 323 was directed at Colletti and SI, not at jasonungar05.
2006-12-14 15:36:06
325.   Bob Timmermann
323
But manufacturing is the lifeblood of the American economy! Isn't it?

Or all we just a bunch of sandal-wearing goldfish tenders?

2006-12-14 15:37:30
326.   Jason in Canada
My wife gives me a detailed list whiich is awesome. I would like to add that 20 minutes ago I finished wrapping all her presents. Today is a glorious day.
2006-12-14 15:38:45
327.   Marty
321 Lawndarts!

http://www.radarmagazine.com/features/2006/12/toys.php

2006-12-14 15:39:34
328.   Bob Timmermann
My girlfriend told me that I didn't have to get her a Christmas present and that we should treat each other to a nice vacation later in the year after she has some minor surgery.

I really should have gotten that in writing.

And notarized.

And witnessed by at least ten people.

2006-12-14 15:42:27
329.   Jason in Canada
You might want video as well..
2006-12-14 15:43:15
330.   Andrew Shimmin
Having watched a few hours of television commercials over the past few days, I can say with some degree of certainty that what women most want for Christmas is fancy underwear and diamonds.
2006-12-14 15:44:35
331.   StolenMonkey86
325 - Bob, thanks for revealing the link between Lyndon LaRouche and Joe Morgan.
2006-12-14 15:47:52
332.   Jason in Canada
Wow, my wife bought me a Christmas gift off Amazon from the states two days ago and it arrived just now.. and she didn't even order express... Wow.
2006-12-14 15:50:43
333.   xaphor
And we thought Beimel's extracurricular playoff activities were silly:

http://tinyurl.com/y9df8a

2006-12-14 15:54:28
334.   Eric Enders
332 If you're in Vancouver as your earlier post implied, then it was shipped from Nevada, so it didn't have far to go.

Amazon shipping centers are located (for sales tax purposes) in Nevada, Delaware, and Kentucky.

2006-12-14 15:54:53
335.   StolenMonkey86
333 - That's the problem with these young kids. You need proven veterans to hurt themselves more legitimately, like washing their truck.
2006-12-14 15:55:25
336.   Bob Timmermann
334
Jon does not like this, but I still insist that Delaware is a fictional place.
2006-12-14 15:55:40
337.   Eric Enders
333 Before clicking on that, I was debating with myself whether it would be about Eckstein or Zumaya.

Zumaya wins.

2006-12-14 15:57:06
338.   StolenMonkey86
336 - So are you saying screen doors are just an illusion, or that they're really made in Mexico?
2006-12-14 15:58:01
339.   Bob Timmermann
Screen doors are really made in Mexico, but someone puts a "Made in Delaware" stamp on them.
2006-12-14 15:59:25
340.   Jason in Canada
I'm surprised I guess because it usually takes on average mail from my family in Southern California about one and a half weeks in the non-holiday season. Let's hear it for the Nevada Amazon depot and internet shopping.
2006-12-14 15:59:56
341.   regfairfield
333 You try hitting the last solo of Bark At The Moon without hurting your wrist.
2006-12-14 16:03:05
342.   Jason in Canada
Once when I lived in Virginia some friends and I drove through Deleware, but I was sleeping so I can neither confirm or deny it's existance.
2006-12-14 16:09:37
343.   Eric Enders
342 I can confirm its existence because I'm still peeved at having to pay an exorbitant sum to drive on some 5-mile road they have the gall to call the "Delaware Turnpike."
2006-12-14 16:11:09
344.   Don Tordilla
New Henson Q&A up at the Times website:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-dodgersqa15dec15,1,4787645.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

Some interesting tidbits regarding the Schmidt negotiations. "The Dodgers first offer in early November was for three years at about $42 million, and Schmidt's agents replied by saying he would sign immediately for three years at $51 million. They ended up at $47 million, a reasonable compromise."

2006-12-14 16:29:09
345.   Jon Weisman
344 - Thanks.

New post up top.

2006-12-14 17:18:10
346.   Fallout
330 Andrew Shimmin

Which is not to say that they are mutually exclusive.

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