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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

MLB or Just B
2007-01-27 18:11
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Do you need major leaguers to play in order to enjoy watching a baseball game? (Does it make a difference if it's on TV or in person?)

If you prefer MLB, do you do so because MLB games feature the best quality of play, because the games are more important to a bigger (national or international) community, or just out of habit?

Comments (246)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-01-27 18:19:58
1.   Gagne55
First comment! :D

Anyway, I like watching HS baseball if it's my school. Otherwise, just MLB.

2007-01-27 18:27:27
2.   Greg Brock
I love college baseball. Just one small problem...

PING!

2007-01-27 18:37:27
3.   Bob Timmermann
I would love watching minor league ball a lot more if they didn't have a promotion between every inning.

I'd rather just watch a baseball game than see people spin around on a bat and then try to run the bases.

But, I'm also considered to be no fun.

2007-01-27 18:46:50
4.   Jason in Canada
I really do like watching all levels of baseball in person. I love going to minor league games, and if the little guys are playing at the local park I could watch for hours. There is something really magical to me about being at a baseball diamond.
2007-01-27 18:54:01
5.   ishXdavid
I can enjoy a game of baseball at any level. I take my 9 year-old boy to high school, junior college, college, and scout ball games just to point out the nuances and intricacies of the game. Not only does it slake our passion for the baseball, but he becomes appreciative of the amazing talent major leaguers possess and the amount of dedication it takes to reach that level. It inspires him to become the best player he can be.
2007-01-27 19:00:00
6.   Marty
MLB only for me. I couldn't even get interested in the World baseball whatever it's called.
2007-01-27 19:01:19
7.   Ken Arneson
I enjoy MLB more mostly because I know the players. I know their strengths and weaknesses, which makes following the strategy involved in the game so much more enjoyable. So it's not so much the lower quality of play at other levels that makes me enjoy it less, it's my unfamiliarity with the players who are playing.
2007-01-27 19:01:26
8.   overkill94
I'll enjoy a game at any level as long as I'm with friends. If it's just me, I think the only thing I could go to would be a Dodger game. As much as I enjoy the game of baseball, if I don't have any vested interest in the game I get a little case of ADD so I need somewhat of a distraction to help pass the time.
2007-01-27 19:02:15
9.   gpellamjr
I love baseball if it's played with wooden bats. I used to go to Lake Elsinore storm games a lot, and now I enjoy going to Clippers games here in Columbus. My focus is on MLB now, though, because of my loyalty to the Dodgers. I don't think I'd have any particular attraction to MLB otherwise.

I have an unrelated question, though. Does anybody know how the odds of scoring change in a game if there is a runner on first with nobody out as compared to there being a runner on second with one out?

2007-01-27 19:02:44
10.   overkill94
7 That helps too. When I used to go to a lot of Single-A games in Visalia, it was because the team was good and I got to know the players. If it's a bunch of nameless faces, I can't tell if the weak grounder a guy just hit to second is something I should be upset about or not and for some reason that irritates me.
2007-01-27 19:04:24
11.   gpellamjr
Another thing that I enjoy about MLB is the fact that they play 162 games. I really get caught up in a season, because they play nearly every day and I feel the ups and downs and get to know the individual players' styles, strengths, and weaknesses. I could never get into football at any level, because they play so few games.
2007-01-27 19:04:30
12.   Jon Weisman
7 - If you were compelled to focus your attention on a lower-level league, do you think you would find it rewarding?
2007-01-27 19:05:10
13.   Bob Timmermann
9
http://www.tangotiger.net/RE9902.html
2007-01-27 19:07:40
14.   Greg Brock
For the people that love the scraptacular style of David Eckstein, I cannot recommend the college game enough. Most college baseball players play like their hair is on fire. It's really fun to watch.
2007-01-27 19:09:44
15.   Bob Timmermann
There must be something about the quality of play in any sport. Right now, FSN Prime is showing Cal Poly at CSUN before a crowd of a couple hundred people.

I'm going to take a nap.

2007-01-27 19:12:31
16.   Ken Arneson
12 Yes, as long as the players stayed in the league long enough for me to get to know them.
2007-01-27 19:15:38
17.   Ken Arneson
16 That's not to say I don't enjoy MLB more also because of the other reasons listed, as well, but my #1 reason is player familiarity. And the vast amounts of media coverage MLB players get makes it far, far easier to gain such familiarity.
2007-01-27 19:19:07
18.   Jon Weisman
For me, I think it tends to be more about whom I'm invested in than the quality of play.
2007-01-27 19:21:30
19.   Bob Timmermann
18
In the sense of being invested, I can tell you I was keenly interested in several horse races today at Santa Anita.

I'm not that interested in them now...

2007-01-27 19:22:34
20.   Marty
Bob's a horse-player? Who knew?
2007-01-27 19:23:06
21.   Greg Brock
Bob plays the ponies. The plot thickens.
2007-01-27 19:23:57
22.   Greg Brock
20 Your superior typing is starting to bother me, my friend.
2007-01-27 19:24:57
23.   Marty
22 If you saw me type, you'd be laughing at that statement.
2007-01-27 19:25:32
24.   Bob Timmermann
I go only once or twice a year to Santa Anita.

At least I got a free folding chair out of the day.

2007-01-27 19:27:00
25.   D4P
I go only once or twice a year to Santa Anita

Only for the purpose of being entertained...

2007-01-27 19:27:39
26.   Marty
I grew up a couple miles from Santa Anita. My dad liked to play the horses, so I got an early start. I suck at it though, so I stopped going about a decade ago.
2007-01-27 19:32:02
27.   Andrew Shimmin
I'd watch minor league games if they were on t.v. Can't take the PING!, so that's as low as I'd go, but I watched the Caribbean Series last year, and several of the WBC games.
2007-01-27 19:32:17
28.   Philip Michaels
16 I spent a year or so in a one-horse town where the only form of amusement was the local single-A ballclub. I found that tended to focus the mind in terms of familiarizing myself with the local nine, even if it meant that they would be gone the next year.

Except for the guy that was in his third year playing for the same single-A club.

2007-01-27 19:32:24
29.   Bob Timmermann
I plan on going for the entertainment again Friday. But I'm taking a visitor from a strange and foreign land.

Canada.

I'm also going to TWO hockey games next week, one in Anaheim, one at Staples.

I hope I don't lose my bona fides with the baseball fans here.

2007-01-27 19:34:20
30.   Bob Timmermann
A basketball score that reads:

(7) Oregon at (20) Washington State

seems really weird for many different reasons.

2007-01-27 19:35:50
31.   trainwreck
I think I could watch any baseball if I knew some of the players. This is why I can watch high school basketball just because I follow recruiting. If I do not know a single player it is hard for me to get interested.
2007-01-27 19:41:59
32.   Marty
I had a girlfriend in the 70's who's dad moonlighted as a small-time bookie. When he died, she took on the business for awhile. It was fun placing bets through her. My credit was always good. Well, until the end of the relationship at least. I would call her throughout the day at the paper I worked at and get the results from the race ticker they had.

Good times.

2007-01-27 19:56:16
33.   dzzrtRatt
I can't improve on 7.

I might move sometime soon to an area where the nearest baseball team is a single-A level team, and if I get familiar with their players, their management and their opposition, I'm sure over time I'll get into it. But for now, MLB means a flow of stories, data, personalities and history that I find fascinating, comforting and often thrilling.

2007-01-27 20:04:32
34.   Daniel Zappala
Though I now live closer to A and AAA teams, and I'm quite familiar with the players, I still prefer MLB. At lot of it is the tradition of following the teams when I was a kid (Dodgers and Angels both). I formed such an attachment, it is hard to let go. Part of it is watching the same players for the same team each year. Though that now changes a lot each year, it wasn't that way so much as I grew up. Also, the younger players are still with the team a while, and the Angels did keep a good core of talent together for a while. I'm also attracted to the longer season, the quality of play, and the importance of the games on a national scale. I would watch any MLB game on TV any day over a AAA game I could see in person, which is why I have DirecTV and the baseball package. I still go to a minor league park for fun and to show the kids a game in person, but there is nothing quite like the MLB show for me.
2007-01-27 20:06:44
35.   D4P
34
Did you go to many Ems' games...?
2007-01-27 20:09:01
36.   Marty
33 Make the best of it if it happens John.
2007-01-27 20:26:16
37.   Daniel Zappala
35 We did go to a few Ems games while we lived there. Fun stadium. Never got into them too much because their parent (the Cubs?) wasn't a team I rooted for. It's a lot more fun now that I can go to the Angels' A and AAA affiliates and the Dodgers A up in Ogden.
2007-01-27 20:30:23
38.   popup
I have the best set up for any baseball fan: Triple A a few miles away from my house and major league baseball about 20 miles away in Seattle. In some ways I actually think minor league baseball is more memorable for me. I can still picture in my mind Pedro, Orel and Mike Piazza playing for Alburquerque against Tacoma. I always look forward to seeing good young players before they hit the major leagues. I get an extra kick if those good young players are Dodger prospects.

Stan from Tacoma

2007-01-27 20:32:17
39.   D4P
The Ems were a Royals affiliate for most of my growing up years. I got to see Kevin Appier and Tom Gordon, among others. One of my friends got a broken bat from Ken Griffey Jr. after one of the games when he played for Bellingham(?).
2007-01-27 20:53:34
40.   Vishal
any baseball at any level can capture my attention, from t-ball to pick-up games to high school ball, minor league, college, MLB, international competition, whatever. the game is compelling.
2007-01-27 21:06:05
41.   trainwreck
OT in Pullman.
2007-01-27 21:06:52
42.   Bob Timmermann
Furious rally by the Ducks in the waning seconds at Pullman sends the game to overtime.
2007-01-27 21:07:29
43.   Bob Timmermann
I used adjectives!
2007-01-27 21:09:40
44.   D4P
Wow, Ducks.
2007-01-27 21:11:36
45.   D4P
12 of Oregon's 23 made field goals thus far were 3-pointers.
2007-01-27 21:12:23
46.   Greg Brock
I don't know who this Aaron Brooks fellow thinks he is, but he's trying to take the Pacific Ten POY from Aaron Afflalo, and frankly, I don't like it one bit.
2007-01-27 21:13:14
47.   D4P
I don't know who this Aaron Brooks fellow thinks he is

The Pacific Ten POY

2007-01-27 21:15:42
48.   Bob Timmermann
I thought Chase Budinger was destined to be the POY when the season started.

But it's really Nick Young's year.

2007-01-27 21:16:22
49.   Greg Brock
Afflalo will just have to take First Team All-America honors as consolation.

And the conference season is over...yet.

2007-01-27 21:16:34
50.   madmac
following it on gamecast. AB is amazing (about time). I saw the Ducks tie and switched over to DT and checked back and the Ducks got it by 9 now. Leunen last free throw in regulation bounced around before it went it. Hey D4P, didn't he graduate from Sheldon?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-01-27 21:16:41
51.   D4P
Ugh. Did Oregon really just foul on a 3-point shot?
2007-01-27 21:17:48
52.   Bob Timmermann
The Yahoo sports roster says Leunen went to Redmond HS in Redmond, OR.
2007-01-27 21:17:50
53.   D4P
Hey D4P, didn't he graduate from Sheldon?

I think he's from Redmond.

2007-01-27 21:18:17
54.   trainwreck
51
They will not have to pay for it.
2007-01-27 21:19:47
55.   D4P
The Ducks are really impressing me this year. Their MO seems to be losing the first half, then Aaron Brooks taking over to lead a furious second half comeback.
2007-01-27 21:20:45
56.   D4P
This Derrick Lowe guy is bugging me.
2007-01-27 21:20:49
57.   trainwreck
Hopefully Arron Afflalo makes first team All American. He is starting to turn it on at the right time of the season.
2007-01-27 21:21:56
58.   trainwreck
Wow, if Lowe would have been a little more patient then D4P would have really hated him.
2007-01-27 21:22:47
59.   Greg Brock
Holy smokes.
2007-01-27 21:24:21
60.   trainwreck
Well that game turned out pretty crazy and then Wazzu fans show their classy spirit at the end of the game by throwing stuff on the court.
2007-01-27 21:26:01
61.   D4P
I am not used to Oregon winning this type of game. They've done it a lot this year.
2007-01-27 21:27:06
62.   Bob Timmermann
The Pac-10 now:
1) UCLA
2) Oregon
3) Washington State
4) USC
5) Stanford
6) Arizona
7) Cal
8) Washington
9) Oregon State
10) Arizona State

If UCLA beats Stanford Sunday, Arizona and Stanford switch spots.

If Stanford beats UCLA, Oregon and UCLA switch spots and Stanford becomes the #3 team with the other teams moving down a spot.

2007-01-27 21:29:06
63.   Greg Brock
62 I can always count on Bob for the minute by minute standings.

Thank you for that, by the way. I'm not being facetious.

2007-01-27 21:30:45
64.   trainwreck
I would love to see Arizona and Washington finish in the bottom half this season.

Washington has to keep losing to help UCLA land Jrue Holiday.

2007-01-27 21:31:53
65.   Jon Weisman
I'm assuming that UCLA is smart enough to drive and dish, not drive and get swatted.
2007-01-27 21:32:27
66.   D4P
Bob seems eagerer to post the Pac-10 standings now that the top reads

1) UCLA
2) Oregon

rather than

1) Oregon
2) UCLA

2007-01-27 21:32:53
67.   trainwreck
65
As long as Josh Shipp remembers he is Josh Shipp.
2007-01-27 21:35:21
68.   Greg Brock
Jon is enjoying the power of the shot blocking Lopez twins.

Their wonder to behold.

2007-01-27 21:37:43
69.   Jon Weisman
Enjoying it while I can.
2007-01-27 21:39:36
70.   Bob Timmermann
I am equally eagerer.

The most infamous WSU crowd incident came in 1995 when the fans in Pullman got a technical called on them with 11 seconds left in a game against Arizona after Miles Simon tied the game. They threw a lot of objects on to the court and Charles Range wasn't in the mood for a warning.

Then Damon Stoudamire made one of the two free throws.

Then Stoudamire was fouled on the inbound pass and went to the line for a one-and-one. Except it should have been two shots, but the scorekeepers in Pullman lost track of the team fouls (they had shorted Mark Hendrickson a foul!). Stoudamire made one, missed the second and then WSU went down the court and tied the game.

Arizona won in the second OT 114-111.

2007-01-27 21:42:09
71.   trainwreck
Ryan Hollins is in for the Bobcats!

He just made a Brook Lopez-esque block.

2007-01-27 21:44:53
72.   Greg Brock
66 See here, Mr. Oregon guy. Bob is as down the line as they come. We like the Ducks. I own a "Stop Pre" shirt, and even have a Prefontaine quote in my class.

Oregon is well respected among the Los Angeles set. There are no anti-Oregon shenanigans going on here. And shame on you for impugning Mr. Timmermann's character!

(mock indignation)

2007-01-27 21:45:03
73.   trainwreck
Hollins just stole the ball drove the whole court made a long dunk and got fouled on the play. He made the free throw as well!
2007-01-27 21:49:04
74.   Andrew Shimmin
Ryan Hollins is the greatest basketball player of his generation.
2007-01-27 21:50:16
75.   D4P
72
The man hasn't been to Oregon (an adjacent state!) in 34 years! I just turned 33 today! 34 > 33!
2007-01-27 21:51:39
76.   Greg Brock
Happy Birthday, D4P!

Stop whining.

2007-01-27 21:52:09
77.   trainwreck
Happy Birthday D4P! I got you an Oregon win.
2007-01-27 21:56:33
78.   Bob Timmermann
75
See, I went to Oregon before you were born! We obviously cannot occupy the same state at the same time without creating a rift in the time/space continuum.

I still remember my father coming downhill at the Oregon Dunes park.

I learned the meaning of momentum that day. I wonder what stopped him?

2007-01-27 22:01:00
79.   D4P
Happy Birthday(,) D4P!

Thanks guys.

A tip on how to win points with the ladies: since I was sick on my wife's birthday (Christmas Eve), we didn't get to do anything. So, for her birthday and mine, I surprised her by booking a room last night at the Carolina Inn, an historic inn on UNC's campus (just 25 minutes or so from our house). I ordered the "Romance Package," which includes chocolate-covered strawberries and a bottle of champaign in your room upon arrival, and breakfast in the morning. I went down there first, before she came home from work, and left a message on our phone with her instructions. In addition to other activities, we also went out for a nice dinner.

Lesson: surprises like this are good, and you don't necessarily have to go very far to "get away from it all."

2007-01-27 22:03:21
80.   D4P
I went to Oregon before you were born! We obviously cannot occupy the same state at the same time without creating a rift in the time/space continuum.

We've undoubtedly been in California simultaneously on many occasions. I guess that doesn't disprove your theorem, though, as who's to say that there haven't been many rifts in the time/space continuum.

2007-01-27 22:03:52
81.   Greg Brock
79 Wow, D4P is a romantic...

You're such a woman. Kidding. That's very cool.

2007-01-27 22:04:04
82.   Bob Timmermann
79
So you weren't scoring at home then?
2007-01-27 22:09:39
83.   D4P
D4P is a romantic

Alas. Even though I share a birthday with Mozart, I'm more of a (late) Beethoven kinda guy.

So you weren't scoring at home then?

Ironically, I also share a birthday with Mr. Olbermann...

2007-01-27 22:18:32
84.   natepurcell
A tip on how to win points with the ladies

.......

I ordered the "Romance Package," which includes chocolate-covered strawberries and a bottle of champaign in your room upon arrival, and breakfast in the morning. I went down there first

batter up.

2007-01-27 22:19:52
85.   Greg Brock
84 Should I ask you what the heck is wrong with the 'Cats, or should I just leave it alone?
2007-01-27 22:23:34
86.   natepurcell
85

we dont play defense, we dont have strong interior play, we are in an extreme shooting slump.

I also think the starters are tired because Lute doesnt trust our bench. He might have a reason not too but he never plays them so i have no idea. Players like Onobun, hill (now he is), and dillon should be playing more.

2007-01-27 22:25:02
87.   natepurcell
A player like Onobun should be someone that gets more playing then he does. Hes a tough, physical player that jumps out of the gym and plays good defense. I dont understand why he never plays.
2007-01-27 22:26:21
88.   Daniel Zappala
Oh man, you guys are great. Happy birthday D4P.
2007-01-27 22:42:23
89.   D4P
88
Thanks Daniel. I think it's time to call it a wrap on Birthday 33.

Buenas noches.

2007-01-27 23:57:13
90.   Uncle Miltie
Happy birthday, D4P. You're a pretty old dude. ;)

The Pac 10 has been very weird this year. Arizona is underachieving, Washington State is overachieving, Oregon is very good despite not having a dominating big man, and Stanford might be the dark horse to win the conference (though, I don't expect that to happen). Stanford has really impressed me this year. Unlike the other teams in the conference, Stanford actually has academic standards, so it's much harder for them to recruit top players. Lawrence Hill is like another Josh Childress and the Lopez twins are making a big impact as freshman. Stanford is a very well coached team, and I'm worried that UCLA might have some trouble with them tomorrow. Also, the Tree has to be one of the best mascots in college, especially when it isn't sober.

I'm really dreading the drive back up to school tomorrow....

2007-01-28 01:23:00
91.   trainwreck
The speed of this tennis match is absolutely ridiculous.
2007-01-28 03:08:56
92.   overkill94
86 My dad and I (who went to Arizona) don't understand why Onubon never plays because he looks like a damn fine player whenever he gets a chance. Personally I don't understand why Lute is so hesitant to use his bench this year because his starters seem to be the most tired they've ever been since I've watched Arizona basketball.
2007-01-28 04:35:04
93.   Sam DC
Happy day after your birthday, you spring chicken D4P.

I did a similar surprise for my wife once at The Mission Inn in Riverside (we lived in Claremont at the time so it wasn't too far). It's more kitsch than nice, but it certainly was getting way way away from it all.

2007-01-28 06:59:19
94.   3upn3down
A friend from work sent me a link on Friday out of the NY Times that said the MLB and DirecTV are working on a special arrangement in which the Extra Innings game package will only be aired on DirecTV much like the NFL Sunday Ticket is.

I'll see if I can find the article.

2007-01-28 07:01:32
95.   3upn3down
The Link in NY Times:

http://tinyurl.com/34bd2f

2007-01-28 08:13:52
96.   Greg Brock
95 If you'd like to hear the Toaster community's response, there are a couple of posts around on the subject.

I'm sure you could just use the search engine on the sidebar and search for DirecTV.

2007-01-28 08:14:39
97.   D4P
You're a pretty old dude
you spring chicken D4P

33 is the new 18.

Yay! I can vote! And score at home!

2007-01-28 08:16:50
98.   Greg Brock
95 Here you go.

http://tinyurl.com/2jjz8e

2007-01-28 08:51:43
99.   Frip
I work 2 blocks from Quake stadium where the high-A Rancho Cucamonga Quakes play. The actor Mark Harmon is one of the owners and Ken Griffey Jr. played for them.

I like going to their games almost as much as a big league game. I'm too tired to go into why and you probably don't care.

2007-01-28 09:00:06
100.   dkminnick
I see that the conversation has moved on from Jon's original post, but I was out all day yesterday and missed my opportunity to weigh in.

It's Baseball that I love. It is the most beautiful, complex, unique game in the world. It's intricacies are practically infinite. That's why I can watch anyone play it - 7 years old to MLB. I love the daily flow of the MLB season and the high level of play, but I can (and do) also sit and watch kids play little league. It's all Baseball.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-01-28 09:01:06
101.   Jon Weisman
100 - People should please feel encouraged to continue weighing in on the original post.
2007-01-28 09:13:01
102.   das411
99 - We care! Go right ahead and explain once you are un-tired :)

I prefer MLB, mostly because of both familiarity and since the talent level is soooooo much higher, but minor league games have thier attraction too. The best of both worlds is of course Spring Training at a gorgeous ballpark like St. Pete's Al Lang Field....ahhh I can feel the sun and the breeze already...as we are getting several inches of snow here in Happy Valley...

2007-01-28 09:21:44
103.   Greg Brock
A Chronicle article on everybody's favorite insane ballplayer, Milton Bradley. Nice to see he's growing up...Just like the other 12 articles over the past five years.

http://tinyurl.com/2495sw

2007-01-28 09:48:05
104.   Jon Weisman
Grenade!
2007-01-28 09:49:50
105.   Greg Brock
104 Hey, it's a gloomy Sunday...Let's get this party going!
2007-01-28 09:53:05
106.   Bob Timmermann
I think I'll just go to the track again. I need to spend a day with Stubby Kaye-like characters.
2007-01-28 09:55:26
107.   Jon Weisman
Personally, I thought it was a nice article. He wasn't pretending that he'd never get angry about anything again. On the other hand, he did, after all, have a low-key 2006. Shouldn't he get credit for that?
2007-01-28 10:00:43
108.   Greg Brock
107 Naw, I was just being a noodge. I always liked Bradley, and hoped against hope that he would figure it out before the Dodgers had to ship him out. Unfortunately, he didn't. I don't think it can be said that the Dodger fans or organization lacked patience.
2007-01-28 10:04:40
109.   Jon Weisman
Considering how quickly people turned on him, I think it could be said that a good many Dodger fans lacked patience. It was only one incident before people decided he was insane - and not in a joking matter. I'd say the organization at the time was better in this regard than the fans.

But I'm aware that over time, Bradley's behavior became more than even some patient people could bear. Even I struggled by the end, though I did want him to succeed in Los Angeles.

2007-01-28 10:06:30
110.   D4P
I think I'll just go to the track again

Wasting your powers on petty money-making activities...?

2007-01-28 10:10:03
111.   Greg Brock
109 I guess my experience with Dodger fans is just anecdotal, because my friends and I hung with him pretty much until the Daily Breeze story broke and the Jeff Kent fiasco. Even then there were a few holdouts, myself included.

I think we all understood that not everybody grows up the same way, with the same kind of guidance that many of us were fortunate to get.

2007-01-28 10:24:06
112.   Bob Timmermann
110
If it were only a money-making activity.
2007-01-28 10:29:25
113.   D4P
I know nothing about betting on horses. Is there some mechanism that prevents you from betting on every horse in a given race?
2007-01-28 10:34:09
114.   Bob Timmermann
113
I believe that mechanism is known as losing money most of the time. Let's say you bet $2 on every horse in the race to win. There are 10 entries in a race, let's say. So you shell out $20.

If the winner doesn't have long odds, you're in the hole.

The race track will be very happy with you if you try such gambits.

2007-01-28 10:40:00
115.   CanuckDodger
109 -- Jon, Bradley was "insane" before he ever became a Dodger -- you will recall that that is why he was even on Cleveland's trading block in the first place -- so what exercise of "patience" was required? It is not like serious mental problems have an encouraging record of waning with the passage of time. The day the Dodgers acquired Bradley, I called him "Psycho Boy" on another Dodger message board. Now if someone wants to say I was being mean I can see where they are coming from. If someone wants to say I was being "impatient," well, that doesn't quite make sense to me.
2007-01-28 10:40:09
116.   D4P
So, can you bet on a horse to win, or to place, or to show? If so, do you get any money if your horse finishes higher than you predicted (e.g you bet on a horse to show and it actually places)?
2007-01-28 10:43:13
117.   Bob Timmermann
116
Horse racing uses parimutuel betting, so each bet you make goes into a pool for that bet. So if I bet on horse #3 to show and it finishes second, I get my payout based on the "Show" pool bet on that horse. You usually don't get much if you bet "show".
2007-01-28 10:43:55
118.   Jon Weisman
115 - You were mean, but I can see where you were coming from.
2007-01-28 10:44:23
119.   Jon Weisman
Still open to more responses to the original topic.
2007-01-28 10:47:16
120.   Andrew Shimmin
115- Does your crystal ball only work on psychological disorders, or can you tell which players have, for example, venereal diseases? Like Mike Sweeney, he seems very herpetic, to me. C'est vrai, or faux?
2007-01-28 10:50:03
121.   Greg Brock
When I lived in Connecticut I had the opportunity to attend a bunch of Norwich Navigators games, and they were a blast. They didn't hold too many silly promotions, the tickets and concessions were cheap, and I got the chance to see a bunch of Nick Johnson and Alfonso Soriano games, when Johnson was the bigger name!

Also, every town around Norwich had no accent. Everybody in Norwich had a thick accent. New England is so weird.

2007-01-28 10:51:47
122.   D4P
When I lived in Connecticut

Why did you live in Connecticut...?

2007-01-28 10:52:23
123.   Bob Timmermann
121

Did they say "NOR-wich" or "Nor-rich"?

The people living there must have had some accent. Or did they all just have Stephen Hawking like machines to communicate with?

2007-01-28 10:56:54
124.   Greg Brock
122 From July 13th, 1996 - Dec 19th, 1999

123 Oh, it was "Norrich" and it was WICKED THICK. And you know what I mean about the accents. Not as bad as Rhode Islanders, but bad.

Also, Connecticut blue laws = Boooooo.

2007-01-28 10:59:59
125.   Andrew Shimmin
Were you a submariner?
2007-01-28 11:00:42
126.   D4P
124
Um, "Why" not "When"
2007-01-28 11:01:21
127.   Greg Brock
125 No way man! Those people are not normal. I was good ole surface Navy livin' the dream of a four year shore duty billet. Hooray administrative work!
2007-01-28 11:05:35
128.   Greg Brock
126 Sorry, misread that.
2007-01-28 11:07:12
129.   D4P
128
Apology accepted.
2007-01-28 11:11:21
130.   BarkinJ
I grew up in LA and at Dodger Stadium. MLB baseball is my first love.

I went to my first minor league game (Wisconsin Timber Rattlers in Appleton, Wisconsin) when I was in college. I had a blast. Cheap food, free parking, players who are doing their darnedest to impress...

I don't even mind the silly promotions between innings.

Since then, I've had a ball at a Durham Bulls game (Durham, NC) and a Brooklyn Cyclones game (though I don't think I like their adoption of the Brooklyn Dodger mystique). I also had a great time at the three final WBC games.

I'll take the minor leagues or international baseball any time. Just don't make me watch the American League.

2007-01-28 11:21:43
131.   GoBears
When I lived in Denver in the late 70s/early 80s, there was no internet or much baseball on TV, and the only baseball in town was the AAA Denver Bears, the Expos affiliate. And it was very easy to get into them, then root for their players to make the show and succeed there. Tim Raines and Bill Gullickson are the only 2 I remember, and I won't be satisfied til Raines makes the HoF.

I agree with the sentiment that aluminum bats are a hindrance to enjoying LL or college ball, but I really enjoy the minors.

One other thing - any thought about following a team nowadays would have to consider the fact that there likely won't be a blog like this one to enhance the experience. Thanks to Jon, I can't separate Dodger fandom from DodgerThoughts any more, and I imagine that following any other team would just seem superficial by comparison.

2007-01-28 12:15:21
132.   Bob Timmermann
At the end of 2005, Dodger Thoughts has turned into Jacksonville Suns Thoughts.
2007-01-28 12:23:56
133.   Greg Brock
131 I won't be satisfied til Raines makes the HoF.

Raines faces an uphill battle, but his candidacy will benefit greatly from the netroots community of analysts like Neyer, James, Lederer, et al. People have been able to launch a sort of preemptive campaign for Raines, which wasn't the case for Bert Blyleven.

In a just world, both of them get in next year.

2007-01-28 12:24:01
134.   Bob Timmermann
That should have been a "was" instead of a "has"
2007-01-28 12:26:59
135.   Bob Timmermann
Tim Raines also was on the Yankees, which will aid his cause. But he also admitted to taking cocaine, which will hurt him with the Paul Ladeskis of the world.
2007-01-28 12:29:01
136.   A Slo
As for the original topic, how many here believe they could detect the difference in talent level if suddenly every MLB team was replaced with its AAA team? Of course, you'd have to ignore the fact that you would know the players by name and familiarity and know they were not all of Major League quality, but my questions is about being able to identify by site the differing talent levels of MLB and top-level minor leaguers? I think it would be hard to detect.
2007-01-28 12:45:46
137.   Icaros
132

We were preparing ourselves for better times.

2007-01-28 12:50:24
138.   trainwreck
I never got tired of Bradley's act. Aside from the supposed domestic disturbance incident, which we never got really good details about, none of the stuff Bradley did bothered me. He never seemed to be a bad teammate. He just had his issues with Jeff Kent, which I can completely understand because he probably had to hear a lot of jokes that he could not stand.

Then again, I wanted Artest on the Lakers last year.

2007-01-28 12:51:21
139.   D4P
Then again, I wanted Artest on the Lakers last year

And you're a Raiders fan

2007-01-28 12:53:22
140.   trainwreck
Yeah, but the Raiders just get morons not bad guys anymore. I went from loving Randy Moss to hating him with a passion.
2007-01-28 14:05:10
141.   das411
I think this calls for a random non-baseball but still way cool (and LA-related!) link: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/647565/M/

and for 140 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J7ipVezSEk

2007-01-28 14:05:42
142.   Jon Weisman
So, Tiger's being Tiger again.
2007-01-28 14:16:26
143.   Marty
142 And rookies are being rookies.
2007-01-28 14:16:55
144.   Greg Brock
141 That is an awesome picture.

So yeah, Lane Kiffin gets called "Lance" by Al Davis's corpse, and Randy Moss told him that he doesn't want to talk to him, won't return his calls, and wants to be traded.

Good luck, Lance!

2007-01-28 14:17:08
145.   trainwreck
141
Yeah, I have seen that whole series they are hilarious. My favorite is the Evenflow parody about Ron Mexico.
2007-01-28 14:18:15
146.   trainwreck
We have the hardest schedule in the league next year so 5 wins would be nice lol.
2007-01-28 14:21:29
147.   Greg Brock
146 Oh trainwreck, don't be so crazy...

You're not going to win 5 games.

2007-01-28 14:24:26
148.   gpellamjr
147 Did you write for Golden Girls?
2007-01-28 14:39:54
149.   trainwreck
147
A person can dream can't they?

Darren McFadden welcome to the Silver and Black.

2007-01-28 14:42:23
150.   Greg Brock
You should be trading down to the four or five spot, nabbing Adrian Peterson, and pickup up offensive lineman with the additional picks.

Listen to me, sounding all Mel Kiperish! "Upside out of the backfield! Hip rotation. Fluid breaks off the snap. Movement and whatnot!"

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-01-28 14:45:35
151.   trainwreck
I have wanted Adrian Peterson this whole time. The problem is there are not many players that teams really covet. I doubt many would be willing to trade up to the number 1 spot to grab a player. Maybe the Panthers would want a QB, but they are too low in the draft.

If we drafted Russell, I would say go with Michael Bush in the second.

2007-01-28 14:47:38
152.   Greg Brock
If the Raiders draft JaMarcus Russell, they deserve every horrible thing that comes their way.
2007-01-28 14:51:47
153.   Marty
Did you get a look at Al Davis at the Kiffin press conference? Uffda.
2007-01-28 14:59:31
154.   scareduck
Jon -- to answer your post's question, no, not at all. We've been going to Long Beach State games now for a couple years; sure, the quality of play isn't as thoroughly good (though the hitting at times reminds me of the kinds of games I've seen out of the Dodgers in 2003), but the ballpark is the ballpark. The game is the game. Blair Field isn't a major league stadium, but it's still a great little park.

And, yeah, in person is mostly better -- except for extra innings. I'd rather be on my sofa for those.

2007-01-28 14:59:58
155.   trainwreck
152
I take it you do not think a ton of Russell.
2007-01-28 15:00:55
156.   trainwreck
154
I have known one of Long Beach State's players since elementary school. His name is Scott Bradley.
2007-01-28 15:01:33
157.   Greg Brock
I assume, of course, that you've already seen this fantastic image of the late Mr. Davis...

http://tinyurl.com/397n6x

2007-01-28 15:01:53
158.   trainwreck
I hate Bruce Bowen.
2007-01-28 15:02:55
159.   trainwreck
The Dark Lord is starting to show his true form with age.
2007-01-28 15:32:26
160.   Greg Brock
The Lakers just choked a game away like six times.

What a bad loss.

2007-01-28 15:35:18
161.   trainwreck
Dennis Erickson is trying to steal top UCLA recruit, Brian Price.

I hate you Dennis Erickson!! Leave us alone!

2007-01-28 15:36:44
162.   Greg Brock
Dennis Erickson will be turned off by Price the minute he finds out that Price can spell his own name.
2007-01-28 15:39:23
163.   Marty
Where is Erickson nowadays? ASU?
2007-01-28 15:39:47
164.   trainwreck
Price says it is now 50/50 between UCLA and ASU. Those ASU coeds and lack of academics strike again.
2007-01-28 15:41:56
165.   Greg Brock
Oh, well. If we lose Price, it just means that Coach Mariucci will have more scholarships available next year.
2007-01-28 15:43:47
166.   trainwreck
Uggh I do not want Mariucci, but I believe we already have the max available scholarships next year.
2007-01-28 15:45:24
167.   Greg Brock
Okay, Coach Neuheisel then.
2007-01-28 15:47:23
168.   Marty
I've got Neuheisel in the pool.
2007-01-28 15:47:45
169.   trainwreck
The sad thing is you are probably right with those two guesses.
2007-01-28 16:22:48
170.   trainwreck
From Peter Gammons' blog:

2. ADD prescriptions replacing amphetamines. Word is that one team has close to 15 players who have been "diagnosed" as having some form of Attention Deficit Disorder, and can get the necessary medicine to maintain focus on the smokiest of days.

2007-01-28 16:24:50
171.   Andrew Shimmin
David Pinto weighed in on Jon's question.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/019067.php

2007-01-28 16:39:34
172.   Jason in Canada
I can't imagine being a Cowboys fan, and if I were, I couldn't imagine wanting Norv Turner as my coach.
2007-01-28 16:47:45
173.   trainwreck
172
Tell me about.
2007-01-28 16:48:07
174.   trainwreck
*tell me about it.
2007-01-28 16:53:46
175.   Bob Timmermann
The race track was more "entertaining" today than yesterday.

Very much so.

2007-01-28 16:59:06
176.   trainwreck
Let the trash talk begin Cardinal and Bruins fans.
2007-01-28 16:59:32
177.   caseybarker
150 Offensive linemen? The Raiders only needs are consistency in coaching, and no more Moss or Porter.

I enjoy watching college baseball live, and I had a lot of fun at Visalia Oaks' games when I was little. I met guys like Gene Larkin, Denny Hocking, and Willie Banks.

2007-01-28 17:01:58
178.   Bob Timmermann
176
If Stanford loses today, the Cardinal will just go back to the Pac-10 ask for the game to be retroactively dropped from the schedule!
2007-01-28 17:02:39
179.   Bill Crain
Once in Vegas we watched Eric Gagne start and throw three perfect innings. That evening could have been a highlight of all our lives. Instead, they took him out and put him on a plane back to LA.

Slave leagues aren't baseball, really. More like pre-game warmups. Isn't it somehow fradulent to sell tickets to a game your team isn't even trying to win?

Baseball has been in decline ever since the PCL sold out. Look, they took the silver out of our coins and the lead out of our paint. Next you'll see women on the golf course. Mark my words.

2007-01-28 17:03:45
180.   Bob Timmermann
It was very nice of the UCLA PR people to round up the one black student who is not on an athletic scholarship for that promotional commercial.
2007-01-28 17:04:06
181.   Greg Brock
You want trash talk? I'll give you trash talk...

Stanford? They have legacy admissions! Their mascot is a tree! They...they...The Play!

And the Raiders O-line is terrible.

2007-01-28 17:06:56
182.   Greg Brock
180 That commercial is terrible. UCLA Film School should be able to come up with more than a little punk at a skate park and a guy at a record store. "In the city of the future...LA!"

Really.

2007-01-28 17:08:32
183.   caseybarker
181 No coaching. Jake Grove and Robert Gallery should be dominating. Barry Sims is a hold-over from the 2000-2002 Raiders. Those guys just need a consistent game plan.

My bet is that this line has more raw talent than most in the NFL.

2007-01-28 17:10:07
184.   Bob Timmermann
While Oregon tends to go GGGGF, Stanford likes to go GFCCC.
2007-01-28 17:10:25
185.   trainwreck
183
Boothe looks like a keeper for us.
2007-01-28 17:11:10
186.   trainwreck
Mata> Lopez Twins lol
2007-01-28 17:15:16
187.   caseybarker
I admittedly watched few games this year, so I didn't see much of McQuistan or Boothe. But I've always liked Grove, and I thought Gallery would get it going once he settled into his natural position.

But I long for the days of Kennedy, Middleton, Robbins, etc... Those guys could PLAY.

2007-01-28 17:17:08
188.   Andrew Shimmin
182- Anybody has anything to say about the, "In the city of the future. . .L.A!" girl, you'd better mind your tone. That's a good lookin' woman. It's a dumb line, okay, but let's have a little respect for what's what.
2007-01-28 17:17:26
189.   trainwreck
They all played pretty badly this year, but we had a bad blocking scheme. They used retreat blocking, which does not really work anymore. Kiffin will bring in zone blocking, which relies much more on smarts, but can make up for our lack of talent.
2007-01-28 17:18:35
190.   trainwreck
188
I do not think anyone is complaining about her.
2007-01-28 17:18:45
191.   Greg Brock
188 It's a dorky line and she delivers it dorkily and her body language stinks.

But she's a decent lookin' gal.

2007-01-28 17:21:28
192.   Bob Timmermann
188
I've seen better at UCLA. And you don't have to track them to the Getty Museum to find them either.

At least I think that's where she's standing in that shot.

Many years ago, one of my brothers was in one of the UCLA promo films. One of his regular profs had a special class with a few students who were supposed to look very earnest. He was cast as the "surfer" guy because he had blond hair and he was told to wear an OP shirt.

My brother has never surfed.

2007-01-28 17:22:00
193.   trainwreck
Every line in the commercial is terrible and all the guys dress like complete dorks and it shows nothing substantial. I do not know why they think that commercial would be attractive to students.
2007-01-28 17:23:18
194.   Bob Timmermann
Then again, 50,000 freshman class applicants is nothing to sneeze at.
2007-01-28 17:24:25
195.   trainwreck
And I am sure zero would give credit to that commercial.
2007-01-28 17:24:54
196.   Andrew Shimmin
The shouty Standord commercial is significantly worse.
2007-01-28 17:25:20
197.   Greg Brock
Stanford's commercial should be about five seconds long...

"We're Stanford...Apply, don't apply, whatever."

2007-01-28 17:25:27
198.   Andrew Shimmin
Stanford, even.
2007-01-28 17:25:48
199.   trainwreck
196
I agree with that.
2007-01-28 17:28:28
200.   trainwreck
I cannot even remember what Cal's commercial is like. Not that they need one.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-01-28 17:29:35
201.   Bob Timmermann
Cal's commercial is an unholy cross between UCLA's and Stanford's. It has shouting combined with quick cuts of various scenes.
2007-01-28 17:29:41
202.   Greg Brock
The Cal commercial is actually quite good.
2007-01-28 17:30:15
203.   Greg Brock
201 You are wrong, sir!
2007-01-28 17:32:33
204.   Bob Timmermann
I found Cal's from 2004. It's pretty good even with the Philip Glass-like score.

http://tinyurl.com/37ez33

2007-01-28 17:34:53
205.   Greg Brock
204 That is a great commercial.
2007-01-28 17:39:14
206.   trainwreck
204
Yeah, makes me think I made a bad decision (which I probably did).

UCSB's commercial is probably pleading with the audience to believe we are not a party school.

2007-01-28 17:41:18
207.   Bob Timmermann
RIP, Yang Chuan-kwang, aka C.K. Yang.
2007-01-28 17:41:23
208.   Andrew Shimmin
College recruiting is better when Duke has a good commercial.
2007-01-28 17:41:24
209.   Greg Brock
Sorry, Jon. No amount of Lopez shot-blocking DNA will save you now.
2007-01-28 17:42:34
210.   Bob Timmermann
"U, schee, ess, um, um, C?, no wait, it's a B isn't it? Yeah, it's the school of the ... KEGGER!!!"
2007-01-28 17:48:04
211.   trainwreck
"UCSB, we are down to 32 alcohol related deaths a year!"
2007-01-28 17:48:49
212.   Samuel
201

All I remember about Cal's commercial is that it seems to have our Chancellor and Coach Tedford in the football stadium. Of course my personal favorite is the "Our Domicile" commercial we put out a couple years ago.

http://tinyurl.com/26hom9

2007-01-28 17:56:12
213.   Samuel
204

After further research, the 2004 Cal commercial was actually pretty bad.

http://tinyurl.com/25p754

The one you found was a students rendition of what he thought should've been the commercial.

2007-01-28 17:57:18
214.   Jon Weisman
The scary thing about the first half was that Stanford pretty much got all the calls and still got killed.

The Stanford commercial is truly only one a Stanford graduate could enjoy. As far as selling the school, it's pretty brainless.

Otherwise, life is good.

2007-01-28 17:58:28
215.   Bob Timmermann
213
OUCH!
2007-01-28 18:03:32
216.   Bob Timmermann
When it comes down to it, how much marketing on TV do UCLA, Stanford, or Berkeley need to do? They all draw plenty of applicants and not many kids watching a college football or basketball game are going to say to themselves "WOW! I never thought about Stanford being a good school! What a commercial!"

Now if small liberal arts colleges were appearing on TV, there would be a different need.

I notice that a lot of the Big 12 and SEC schools have their presidents appear on camera and say "We actually have professors who do research!"

2007-01-28 18:05:34
217.   Bob Timmermann
Now, having a commercial for the Miss America pageant with NFL Films music playing in the background is a unique advertising gimmick.
2007-01-28 18:06:45
218.   trainwreck
During the Senior Bowl they played a commercial for Mobile, Alabama and the mayor claimed they had the best beaches in the world.
2007-01-28 18:21:40
219.   trainwreck
Lack of fast-break execution is annoying.
2007-01-28 18:42:05
220.   trainwreck
Oh, boy.
2007-01-28 18:42:35
221.   Greg Brock
Boy, you go to cook dinner and the earth turns on its axis.
2007-01-28 18:44:04
222.   Bob Timmermann
Seems quiet...

A little too quiet...

2007-01-28 18:46:01
223.   Greg Brock
How does our whole team have four fouls? Did I miss something?
2007-01-28 18:47:54
224.   Greg Brock
What a trainwreck (no, not you).
2007-01-28 18:48:39
225.   trainwreck
We are coming apart at the seams.
2007-01-28 18:50:10
226.   Bob Timmermann
I some signs of stitching.
2007-01-28 18:55:11
227.   Andrew Shimmin
Anybody with access to the UCLA student system: is Afflalo enrolled in the Kobe Bryant Intro to Retarded Shot Selection course?
2007-01-28 18:58:55
228.   Greg Brock
Well, when shots like that fall, you just tip your cap and say, "Congrats"
2007-01-28 18:59:25
229.   Bob Timmermann
We should never doubt the prophecies of Uncle Miltie.
2007-01-28 19:01:48
230.   Strike4
In heaven I plan on watching tons of baseball and I won't care who or what level is playing. As long as Vin Scully is calling it.
2007-01-28 19:02:57
231.   LAT
Where is the 7 pt play when you need it?
2007-01-28 19:02:58
232.   D4P
The race track was more "entertaining" today than yesterday

My gambit paid off, eh...?

2007-01-28 19:06:54
233.   trainwreck
Well that killed any hope for a rally.
2007-01-28 19:07:37
234.   LAT
Sophmore mistake
2007-01-28 19:09:36
235.   Bob Timmermann
Pac-10 standings
1) Oregon
2) UCLA
3) Stanford
4) Washington State
5) USC
6) Arizona
7) Cal
8) Washington
9) Oregon State
10) Arizona State

Next week:

Oregon schools in L.A.
Washington schools in Arizona
Stanford at Cal, also Stanford is at Gonzaga on Wednesday

2007-01-28 19:10:02
236.   trainwreck
Go ahead storm the court.
2007-01-28 19:11:09
237.   Greg Brock
Congratulations, Jon. Big win for the Cardinal. UCLA fans, of course, will completely overreact.
2007-01-28 19:14:16
238.   trainwreck
I really want that number 1 overall seed.
2007-01-28 19:14:38
239.   Bob Timmermann
I get no respect from D4P for my alacrity in posting the Pac-10 standings.

sigh

2007-01-28 19:36:02
240.   ishXdavid
We've lost a game we've trailed from the start, and now we've got one where we've faltered in the second half. I'm sure Howland will make sure the team learns from this. The Stanford student section makes watching a game on TV difficult when children are present. I guess that's the trade-off for "game atmosphere".
2007-01-28 19:41:17
241.   D4P
I get no respect from D4P for my alacrity in posting the Pac-10 standings

Heh heh. Prior to the end of the game, I was going to make a comment about the standings, but changed my mind to see what you would do without prompting.

2007-01-28 19:41:18
242.   trainwreck
Bruin Report Online has completely melted down with hilarious results.
2007-01-28 19:46:02
243.   Bob Timmermann
I'm sure it's all part of the vast Pac-10 officiating consipracy.
2007-01-28 21:04:16
244.   scareduck
156 - I believe Scott Bradley lost his eligibility this year, or graduated, or something. He's not on the roster anymore, anyway.
2007-01-28 21:39:35
245.   arnold
Do you think UCLA fans will storm the floor if by the chance they beat Oregon next weekend?
2007-01-29 07:37:43
246.   Sushirabbit
Before "new post up top" appears, I love all baseball. I've even come to like the PING! because that's the sound my kid's bat makes. To me there's nothing like a well cared for ballfield, even at T-ball level you can tell some kids are really into it and trying and some kids are playing in the dirt. :-) There was a time in my life where almost every night I was at Bill Meyer stadium (A-ball), I almost assuredly saw an un-note-worthy Kent. Those were great times and made me appreciate the game in a different way (the grind, the guys who are too old to make it but keep playing anyway, etc). Now in Nashville I can go see AAA, over time I'm becoming a Brewer's fan, but never more so than a Dodger fan. I wish I could get to Chavez Ravine more, but it's not happening for at least another 5 years.

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