I had nothing to do with this, but it was a nice gesture on someone's or someones' part:

http://thebuzzerbeat.blogspot.com/2007/03/top-10-baseball-blogs.html

I'm still a little bitter that my suggestions for MOBMD didn't get more consideration -

Joe Beckwith - who else had his career setback by double vision?

Chad Fonville - name recognition among Dodger fans, almost 100%. name recognition among other baseball fans, almost 0.

Vic Davalillo - probably not that obscure, but the fact is that his name swam around in my head for decades for no discernable reason.

My 25 Dodgers:

Furcal, Kemp, Loney, Garciapara, Kent, Ethier, Martin, Pierre

Leiberthal, Saenz, Gonzo, Bigbie, Clark, Martinez

Schmidt, Lowe, Penny, Wolf, Tomko

Billingsley, Tsao, Seanez, Biemel, Broxton, Saito

First callups: Greg Miller, Jon Meloan, Brazabon

Traded away: Betemit, Hendrickson, Anderson,

Glen Burke and his World Series Willie Mays catch but then there is "the rest of the story.....

Hey when did the baseball card blog show up on the toaster? I missed the memo. That blog is awesome! (Yeah, I guess I should make that comment over there, but I'm wondering if I'm not the only DT commenter to miss it.)

Chad, Vic and Glenn aren't nearly obscure enough. Joe Beckwith is closer, but still doesn't beat TSMR.

5 - Well, on the sidebar where you saw "Cardboard Gods," there's also a post from Fairpole saying, "Welcome, Cardboard Gods."

What do teachers do while watching 35 students take a quiz? They post on DT, of course. :)

Which Mike Ramsey beat out Mike Devereaux (sp?) for the CF job? Bill James in one of his abstracts devoted some words on that subject, suggesting that everyone who saw the two thought Devereaux was the better player and yet Ramsey got the gig. James memorably concluded, "You can get away with crap if you're right. You think you know more than the numbers, more than what everyone else seems to think? Fine. You better be right. Ramsey couldn't do the job in any respect."

I gotta admit, there's some truth to what James wrote and I kind of miss that arrogance. Lost in the nostalgia we all have for the Garvey/Lopes/Russell/Cey days is the arrogance that team showed. Dave Winfield: "They would show up and say, 'we're gonna kick your ass this series.' And they would. You'd get tired of it.'" I often muse on the usefulness of arrogance, particularly when I view my students (talk about arrogance!). I used to think it was never a good thing to have or show. I'm not so sure anymore.

Henson is reporting Loney to be sent down.

http://tinyurl.com/2rno3l

1 It didn't seem like a nice gesture to me. More just a correction of a blatant error. DT should be on that list. Period. I can think of precious few baseball blogs that can match this one for its combination of community, interesting commentary, and thoughtful, well-written posts. And because you all have managed to rise above the typical flame-fests found elsewhere, you've really made this a special place that deserves the recognition.

I don't post often, but I come here daily because of all of the above. So a tip of my faded, stained Dodger cap to you all.

1 - It was an egregious omission and I imagine that many people told them so.

The Black White Ramsey was an outfielder. The White Mike Ramsey was an infielder.

9 We had a lot of righteous indignation over that near the end of the last thread.

9 Hey now (Larry Sanders reference):

Its probably not a fair test to have Kemp, La Roche, etc. facing an apparently on top of his game Cris Carpenter.

And Loney says "screw you, Ned Colletti," by getting a hit in his first AB today.

Maybe he'll just decide to get a hit every single time he bats until they call him up.

Oh good, I get to listen to the drunken Cardinals announcers - he's doing "color" this morning sounds like. Guess it's better than listening to the drunken people on the street outside the office I work in.

Well, I guess we shouldn't give Tomko a hard time for giving up a home run to Pujols.

Oh no... "Mike will be back for the fifth."

Yeah, shaken but not stirred, I'm sure.

16 I think we should just hit him everytime up this year. (Images of Odalis giving up another homer to Albert) Shudder.

On the bright side, could the time in AAA allow Loney to become a more competent OF and improve his chances of returning to the Dodgers pre-Nomar injury? And could Loney use the time there to boost his power a bit? I don't blame him for being upset, but I think it can be beneficial for him if he attacks it.

As for Kemp and LaRoche, they should benefit from being in AAA. I'd like to see Kemp kill it in AAA for a couple of months, consolidate some of his experiences from last year, continue to play some CF, increasing his versatility. As White has noted, Kemp played a lot of basketball, didn't get as much baseball experience as a lot of guys his age who are now advanced prospects.

LaRoche, coming off the shoulder surgery, probably needs to find his game, particularly on defense.

My question is why did he let him drive the car?

http://tinyurl.com/3633ps

With the logjamb of "average" talent that we have, it causes me pain to see a youngster who appears to be ready to further his career be sent back down. In the midst of all of what is goin on, I find myself wondering if the Dodgers outfield would have been as adequate as it is currently, Gonzo/Pierre/Ethier, if they substituted Clark and Bigbie in there for Pierre and Gonzo, opening up spots for Loney and Kemp, and all the while saving a 15ish million. Personally, with what I've seen so far, I'd rather have Bigbie than Gonzo and a Clark for Pierre would be one of the "as long as he's gone" moves I would be content with.

Furcal
Martin
Garciappara/Loney
Kent
Bigbie
Betemit
Ethier
Clark

with Kemp spelling any 3 outfielders from time to time.

20 - That is unbelievable. The producer definitely handled it with class, I probably would have choked him to death. OT, Undercover Brother is a very funny movie.

Loney being sent down is the last straw for me, and has now completely pushed me over into the Colleti is just an incompetent GM camp. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for a long time, with some of his questionable moves. I tried to understand his reasoning for his moves, sometimes having great difficulty doing so.

Colleti had stuck by the idea that a youngster needs to kick down the door to make the big league club, which is fine, but what more do you want Loney to do? He led the minors in hitting last year, he is tearing up Spring Training again this year. He clear would be one of our three or four best hitters on the big league club as of today, and he gets sent down.

The saddest thing is that Colleti is probably in very little danger of losing his job despite his nearly atrocious moves. He has so much young talent that they will carry this team to at worst a second place finish, and probably the playoffs. Instead of capatilizing on this, Colleti is throwing roadblocks in the way of creating a team that could potentially dominate at least the NL West and probably all of the NL for the next 5-6 years.

I am furious, and I want him fired.

All this power talk might be a little misguided... just think back less than a year ago:

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/425716.html

Not that this team is as stacked with good hitters, Drew and even Lofton were no slouches in the OB category, but it wasn't HRs that got the Dodgers to the playoffs last year.

Mrs. Kavula was the voice of reason this morning:

"Well, at least he didn't trade Loney for Clark."

In addition to being lovely and talented, Mrs. Kavula is wise and patient.

i think sometime in the not too distant future, the dodgers will have to choose: colletti or logan white.

and i think their decision will not make us happy.

You can feel as livid as you want but there's something about flipping out about a thing that hasn't actually happened that could be wasted energy? Just mho.

23 - I personally don't necessarily assume Loney is getting sent down. Today's Dodger Notes for said that Marlon Anderson might not make the team due to injury (with the implication being that Bigbie and Loney will make the team). I am taking a believe it when I see it approach to this one. Jackson's article is the only source, and it wouldn't surprise me if he was wrong.

This Cards announcer sounds like he's in a coma anytime the Dodgers get a hit, and takes an extra few minutes it seems to tell us what actually happened - as with Kent's hit just now.

23 - Well, he hasn't traded him...yet.

My silver lining take on this is that there isn't a spot in the starting lineup (try as we might to squeeze Nomar somewhere else on the diamond, realistically it isn't happening). Loney will be back up the first time any hole needs plugging; in the meantime he continues to tear up AAA while getting 35 at-bats a week (probably double what he'd get in LA).

The strange thing is, why isn't he following this same pattern with Billingsley? Given this Loney thought process, Billingsley should be in the Vegas rotation. Apples and oranges?

It does seem a long time since the Dodgers had a real homegrown outfield power hitter like we all want Kemp to be. I can't think of who the last one was off the top of my head.

31 - Mondesi?

31 He won Rookie of the Year in 1994.

21 I guess what we're seeing here is the Dodgers admitting that he's not ready for the outfield yet? From the few ST games I saw, he looked pretty shaky. I would hate to see the fans turn against him if he's butchering the job. And given what a terrific defender he is at 1b, it might be a serious blow to his pride and confidence to do on-the-job training at a second position in front of 40,000 fans.

And I guess they want Nomar in the lineup if he's healthy, so there's nothing left for Loney.

It's a shame, but I think we all know it's very temporary.

Argh, La Roche hits into a double play, with Loney on deck. I was rooting for Loney to come up and drive in some runs. At least I think he hit into a double play - it was hard to tell between Mike Shannon's cocktail hour.

Since Kemp took out his contacts he is batting .300/.363/.900. This is in 11 Plate Appearances, but I will nevertheless pretend it is significant.

31-33, Yeah Mondesi, unless you count, a-hmmm, Hollandsworth.

Mondesi, Piazza and Guerrero are the ones I can think of, from the last 20 years.

Pujols was just gunned out at third by Kemp.

Tsao's not off to a good start here, though - two hits by first two batters.

24 - I've talked about that a lot - it was OBP and clutch hitting, neither of which they're guaranteed to repeat this year. But one can hope.

And Mondesi was drafted in 1988.

And then a double play solves everything.

Some silver lining to our self-induced Loney flagelation... Looks like Tomko had a fine day. 5 IP, couple'a hits, 3 K's and one walk. Not a bad day's work for a #5. Unfortunately Carpenter is owning us.

19

It's been hashed and re-hashed pretty extensively, but the demotion of Loney is an indication of how Colletti and Co. make decisions. Loney won't add any more power by playing a month or two in AAA than he would with LA. Any added power will come with age and experience, not by facing more AAA pitching.
1000+ plate appearances from Luis Gonzales and Juan Pierre. Woohoo!

40 Very true. And on the other hand, it's also possible they may get more power than expected from people like Ethier, Martin, Pierre (no, I'm kidding), and even Kent could be better than last year if healthy. It may even out, but it's very possible they at least won't be worse in the power department than last year, even without Drew.

40 Oh, I know, that's why I linked to the archive. Sometimes I'm pretty dumb, but I do TRY to learn. :-)

I was just sort of realizing that the lack of Power is coming down on Loney partly because of the perceived deficiency, well it's real in the sense that we don't have the OneBigBat. And he'd get that wrap at 1B anyway, but if we had drew and Soriano, would he be in the lineup?

It's still speculation at this point anyway.

45 - They effectively replaced Drew and Lofton with Pierre and LuGo. That's got to hurt the power and OBP areas (remind me again what areas were upgraded as a result of that swap?). The only upgrade in power I see (on the current roster) will come from a full season of Betemit.

This team won't get anymore power until Kemp arrives and/or a trade is made.

44 Really, though, is it safe to assume he's being sent down to work on hitting? Defense counts too, and assuming he'd need to play outfield to get much playing time, his outfield play needs work. At least, that may be what Ned is thinking.

If Loney goes to Vegas and starts at 1b, though, then never mind. Is there even a spot for him there in the OF?

48 - Is there even a spot for him there in the OF?

I think, with the exception of Kemp, you make room for Loney (if that's their intention).

44 The scary part of that is what Nate mentioned above, specifically I don't think that it is how Logan White would feel, and without Logan White right now this team would be lucky to finish 4th in the NL West. Take away the parts added through the minors and our catcher is Mike Lieberthal, we have no Broxton, no Martin, no Ethier (who Logan knew and told Colleti to trade for), no Billingsely, no Betimit (because we wouldn't have had Aybar to trade for him), and there would be no Kemp, LaRoche, Loney, Miller, Elbert, et al. in the wings.

I just hope that White doesn't get fed up with Colleti's nonsense and decide he does want to be a GM for another team.

50 - To be fair, I think that Logan White would take a GM job either way. It is a career after all, and the best job you can get is GM, so when the times comes he is going to take a GM job. I think we get 2-3 more years out of him before he keeps trucking. Or, maybe, if we are really lucky, in 2-3 years he can be the new GM for the Dodgers and take over for Flanders.

I see that the LAT story says Loney and LaRoche will both be playing a lot of OF in Vegas. Here's hoping they pick it up quickly.

51

thats what i mean by the dodgers will have to choose. Im sure if offered, white would take the dodgers GM position over any other GM position.

50
Take away the parts added through the minors and our catcher is Mike Lieberthal, we have no Broxton, no Martin, no Ethier (who Logan knew and told Colleti to trade for), no Billingsely, no Betimit (because we wouldn't have had Aybar to trade for him), and there would be no Kemp, LaRoche, Loney, Miller, Elbert, et al. in the wings.

That assumes that whoever had the job instead of White would have been 100% incompetent. While that person may not have had White's success, I'm not sure that complete incompetence would have been the substitute.

Then again, maybe I'm giving 'em too much credit.

Man we are getting killed by the Cardinal's defense today. Either that or the announcers are a bunch of sensationalists.

26 Seriously, unless someone here as a direct line to Logan White, the idea that he would be "upset" about the current state of the roster is even beyond the word of speculation.

First off, I think that Kim Ng is going to be the first Front office person to be given another opportunity to run a team. Logan White, for all of his strengths, has primarily been in just one area of the front office, which is scouting and even then, scouting for the draft. Now, he will work on the international side and get a bigger picture on the organizaiton as a whole.

Kim Ng has handled all the various rules about transactions, was in charge of overseeing the minor league system during DePodesta's first year, makes deals and had put in time on two high market teams.

Now, at some point both White and Ng will be given chances to move up but they are not going to be leaving the Dodgers because Kemp, Loney or La Roche are starting this season in Vegas.

And, we are going to get a glimpse of how the scouting department is going to handle the draft with a new Scouting Director (even with White at the top) for the Dodgers for this year's draft.

If Loney is sent down, I can't say I'd be surprised. Colletti has done nothing right so far except throw more money than anyone else at Schmidt and Furcal, find an even more no-hit-SS-obsessed GM to help turn Izturis into Maddux, and not trade any of the top prospects YET.

But if he's going to ignore the fact that Loney has knocked down the door, then it's clear that his plan is not just old-school - it's self-defeating. Never take a chance on a kid, but take a chance on every mediocre veteran you can find (hey, he had one good year - maybe he can repeat it!).

And I'm not nearly as sanguine as some that these "mistakes" are just temporary. Even leaving aside the 5 yrs to Pierre, Colletti has shown every sign that if a veteran does get injured, he'd rather swap for an even more mediocre veteran than let a kid take over. Anderson, Clark, Lugo, Hall, Hendrickson, etc.etc. The only real exception has been Russell Martin.

There's only one reason to make kids wait their turn. If you need to win now, and the high-ceiling kids are not yet as good as roster-fodder vets, then wait.

But if the kids are already better than the guys they're behind, then there's one more reason to go with the vets - to put off arbitration so that you can have the prospects during their prime years for cheap.

But if you're a big-market team, willing to throw millions at proven mediocrities, then clearly you can afford to pay a stud prospect a year earlier than you "have to."

Which means that there are no more excuses for doing what Colletti is doing. Frankly, as I've said before, I think the problem is NOT that Colletti has a goofy master plan. I think the problem is that he's has 30-yr-old ideas about how to evaluate talent, so he actually thinks he IS putting his best 25 on the ML roster. We're all pretty sure he's wrong about that, but his is the only opinion that matters.

53 - Despite the fact that Colletti is seen as mediocre to truly inept in some circles, I imagine that he is seen as good to great by most people. I can see his strengths (he is very good about have a backup plan, and understands the value of league average), but he has glaring weaknesses (overly conservative, overvalues vet, is constantly in search of a bridge too far). Yet, I would put the over/under on his total tenure with the Dodgers at 5.5 years. The farm system will make up for most of his mistakes, he has more payroll or at least uses more payroll than Depodesta, and I can not imagine him allowing things to get as far out of hand as they did in 2005. He is mediocre in just the right way to last for a long, long time.

Depodesta was better at many things, but his weaknesses (or perceived weaknesses) were the kind that someone like McCourt couldn't tolerate, plus 2005 was the perfect storm. Despite how much it irks us, how much outrage do you demoting Loney will bring? One article? A blurb? Nothing?

54 We had complete and utter incompetence in the 10 years before White, so it's not out of the question.

Pedro Guerrero was not homegrown BTW.

Somebody mentioned signing Mondesi in 1988. Did anyone ever notice what a spectacular month June 1988 was in Dodger history? Not only did they go 17-11 that month to take over the NL West lead for good, but they also made the following transactions:

June 1, 1988
Drafted Eric Karros in the 6th round of the 1988 amateur draft.

June 1, 1988
Drafted Mike Piazza in the 62nd round of the 1988 amateur draft.

June 6, 1988 (Standings)
Signed Raul Mondesi as an amateur free agent.

June 18, 1988
Signed Pedro Martinez as an amateur free agent.

After a good couple of weeks, the Dodger scouting department then went on a well-deserved vacation. For 12 years.

55 - Go with the latter. The Cards announcers are some of the worst, which oddly translates to "beloved cultural icon" in St. Louis.

P.S. -- Loney perhaps-maybe-possibly getting sent down is an affront and a farce.

56 "Seriously, unless someone here as a direct line to Logan White, the idea that he would be "upset" about the current state of the roster is even beyond the word of speculation."

I don't necessarily think so. Look at it this way. You work for a Fortune 500 company. In a board meeting, there are several proposals regarding the company's future direction. You put a lot of time and effort into a proposal, which turns out to be head and shoulders above the rest, far and away the best proposal presented. That proposal is flatly rejected for reasons that make sense to nobody.

It would not be leaping to conclusions to assume you are probably very upset. And that situation is exactly what has just happened to Logan White.

(BTW, as for the length of Colletti's tenure, I think he'll last a lot longer than 5.5 years. We will win a pennant or World Series sometime in the next 4 years, and Colletti will get the Fred Claire treatment. That is, a decade's worth of job security based on early success, regardless of demonstrable incompetence.)

At least nobody overreacts on this blog. Hasn't it just been media speculation to this point regarding Loney going down. He hasn't been sent as far as I know and I haven't read any quotes from Little or Ned saying it was likely. Kemp and La Roche should be sent down. Loney belongs if he is playing 1st, but not if they want him in the outfield. Regardless of who is on the ML roster when the season starts I will wish them well and hope they perform like all-stars. I'm a Dodger fan. I will not wish for Ned's firing because I thought he should have kept someone on the ML team. I didn't always agree with DePo and actually it hurt to see him make some of the moves he made, but I always tried to give him the benefit of doubt.

Former Dodger Jolbert Cabrera alert.

And... he pops out.

One thing that's keeping my chin up is this: Colletti can't keep Loney in Vegas forever, and as soon as he's on the roster, my belief -- based on nothing except last year -- is that Little will play him.

63 meet my 27 ;-)

---

Adam Godwin, or "Goodwin," as Barney Gumbel the Cardinals announcer calls him, is actually getting an at bat.

63 "Hasn't it just been media speculation to this point regarding Loney going down."

No. Henson has quoted a front office official. So the two possibilities are:
1) The front office official is lying to Henson, or
2) Henson is lying to us.

63 Except that it would appear that Loney has been led to believe that he will be sent down. If you're Colletti or Little, and you were planning to keep Loney on the roster, wouldn't you take Loney aside after his comments in Monday's paper and say, "Don't worry so much?"

Or you can read 67, which is shorter and has more information.

Wow what a terrible day for LaRoche. 1K, 2 HIDP.

Well, the Dodgers offense went (even further) south in this one. Meaningless game over. Can we start the season already?

63. Nice straw man there, madmac. If sending Loney down were the first dumb decision Colletti had made, people would still disagree with it, but they wouldn't be calling for Ned's head. But it is yet another straw that fits a depressing pattern and now very obvious pattern. For some, it's the last straw. For me, that was Pierre, with several more subsequent straws just to add insult to injury.

Giving the benefit of the doubt depends on what you perceive the overall plan to be. And that is the difference between the current and former GMs.

67 - "Barring a last-minute change of heart by the front office"

Like that's never happened before.

I'm not trying to be naive, and certainly, you can make the case that Loney shouldn't even be on the bubble. But it's not as if anyone knew Dessens would be traded yesterday. They could easily be working on a Bigbie trade.

Plus, the whole Marlon Anderson question remains.

UFC buying Pride is in the headlines on ESPN.com.

We will win a pennant or World Series sometime in the next 4 years

For that to happen, Ned needs to either be willing to pay for the top flight, in their prime--free agent.

Or, play the kids.

So far, none of that has happened.

Instead, its been a steady stream of average salary inflated veterans--of which you'll never be too bad and never be too good with. Just average.

Average teams do happen to win