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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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The Day After
2007-04-10 09:00
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

John Stodder made me laugh out loud with his photographic instructions of how to get in and out of Dodger Stadium.

The most responsible thing for Dodger ownership to do would have been to test the new parking system before raising parking costs 50 percent to pay for it. Putting that aside, I'm willing to give those involved time to fix what's wrong. And it should be said that a) some people got in and out of the stadium without trouble, b) some people probably blame the system for a late arrival when they should blame themselves for not leaving for the game early enough c) no system, new or old, can eliminate traffic completely, especially on Opening Day.

But certainly, there are plenty of indications that the McCourts may have made driving and parking in Dodger Stadium worse than before.

Perhaps the most discouraging indication is that the new parking attendants seem to have been hired and schooled in the same manner as the food and beverage concessionaires: without any premium on expertise or efficiency, and indeed, with no small disdain by some of them for the people they are hired to serve. As Stodder writes, "tell the parking lot attendants who were just standing around, watching this mess passively that, if they can't think of what to do about it, at least pretend to care."

That message should go straight to the top. The McCourts need to be responsive to fan complaints, not in denial. Something didn't work yesterday. Something might not work again tonight. If that's true, the Dodgers need to be prepared to say why things aren't working and what they plan to do about it. They need to be able to say what's going to be different tonight or Wednesday.

They can't just blame the fans for not knowing what they should be doing, ask for patience, then be silent. This is the approach they took when they first bought the Dodgers, and it was a disaster.

Like I said, maybe time will heal these parking wounds. If the Dodgers have the last laugh on this, we'll all be happy. But this very morning, the Dodger organization should be preparing for how to address the public in case it doesn't. And those fail-safe plans absolutely should include a rollback of the parking fee to $10 and other meaningful considerations.

The McCourts have uranium in their hands, playing with the driving fates of Southern Californians. If McCourts know what's good for them, they will approach this dilemma with a commensurate level of care.

Don't blame the drivers - they've basically been given no alternative means to get to the ballpark.

Comments (212)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-04-10 10:23:23
1.   Daniel Zappala
I wasn't there, but I think the Dodgers ought to be given the chance to have people leave the stadium on a typical weeknight game, rather than during rush hour, to properly judge whether the new scheme works.
2007-04-10 10:24:19
2.   Marty
I will be amazed if rolling back the price to $10 is even given a passing thought.

In my most cynical thoughts, I believe this may have been the plan all along. Roll out some temporary parking rules and employees, use that as the excuse to up the parking fees, then abandon the new plan and fire the employees and leave the new pricing structure intact.

2007-04-10 10:27:06
3.   Vishal
jon "the voice of reason" weisman hits the bullseye once again.
2007-04-10 10:34:50
4.   tskent
I don't see the problem with the increased rate of parking. Dodgers and Co. has spent a lot of money on improvements to the stadium, the stadium experience, and quality ballplayers. We posted the 2nd best record in the league last season. We look to do it again. That's worth a few extra benjamins a year to me.
2007-04-10 10:37:19
5.   KBL
I think Jon is right on about no other means of getting to the stadium being offered by those up top. I would love to see a discount for those who arrive early. That is at least a step in the right direction for easing the congestion, but I would ultimately love to see public transportation.
2007-04-10 10:38:06
6.   regfairfield
Has there ever been a parking lot improvement that actually helped traffic flow? Every change that's been made seem designed to thwart my escape.
2007-04-10 10:38:48
7.   Frip
Jon: "The McCourts have uranium in their hands"

Interesting phrase. What does it mean?

2007-04-10 10:39:17
8.   old dodger fan
Living on the east coast now I don't get to Dodger Stadium often. Last summer my wife, daughter and I went to a game that should be as easy as any to get in and out of. Dodgers were playing the Pirates, Tomko was pitching.

We stayed until the last out. I told my wife, "We need to fly out of her now". Her response was of course, "I need to go to the bathroom".

From the time I turned the key it took us well over an hour to get to the freeway. Combine that with the normal LA traffic in and out of the game and we were away from our Hermosa Beach hotel for 6 1/2 hours for a game that took less than 3 hours to play. My wife says she will never do that again. Of course I will but it certainly is no way to build a fan base. I can't imagine facing that on a regular basis.

BTW, my 12 year old daughter is a huge Dodger fan, she named the family dog Dodger and she has seen the Dodgers play 4 times in 4 different stadiums and has never seen them lose.

2007-04-10 10:40:10
9.   Frip
Sorry, I thought you said in their heads. I get it now.
2007-04-10 10:42:07
10.   Vishal
[4] shouldn't that be reflected in the ticket price, though? it's long bothered me that it cost me more to park my car in the lot than it did to park my butt in a seat at dodger stadium. aren't we paying for the game? if they want to charge more money for parking, they should improve the quality of the parking product. on the other hand, if they want to extract money from the parking lot, that just gives me an incentive to park outside the gate and walk into the stadium. traffic's easier that way anyway.
2007-04-10 10:43:07
11.   blue22
10 - So you're saying they should raise ticket prices...?
2007-04-10 10:43:15
12.   Vishal
she named the family dog Dodger

THAT is clever. how come i never thought of (or even heard of) that before??

2007-04-10 10:43:49
13.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
SoSG posted a wrapup of Opening Day at http://www.sonsofstevegarvey.com/2007/04/dodgers-home-opener-4907.html , which referenced the parking issue here:

First, parking did seem a little less chaotic getting in (there certainly are tons of attendants pointing you around), but it was a disaster leaving. This may have been due to Opening Day, but I noticed as I exited the stadium that they had stacked a line of cars in the second lane of the inner ring. This was very bizarre, for if you were trying to exit the stadium (by exiting the ring to the left), you couldn't do it at many of the regular exits due to this random ring of parked cars. Why they didn't stack this ring against the outside circumference of the ring, I don't understand. I'll give the parking staff a break since Opening Day is always crazy (I distinctly remember one time I was forced to park above the Think Blue sign and run down the hill in wingtips and a suit), so I'll check out the parking scene again later this week.

I think that mid-ring cirle of cars was a really bad idea, but even getting rid of that will not be a panacea for the mess of this system. I was fortunate that I had a preferred pass and whizzed into, and out of, Lot G (behind the scoreboards)--but I got there early and was forced to leave early due to another appointment. For the poor souls who didn't have parking (a group that I will be in on Wednesday), it appeared to be a much more trying experience.

2007-04-10 10:44:07
14.   Vishal
[10] no, i guess i talked myself out of it.
2007-04-10 10:44:28
15.   underdog
I didn't realize, until I read ItD just now, that Furcal's two rehab starts are against Colon and Jered Weaver! That's not fair. Good practice, though.

Josh over there also mentions how they didn't see much feedback yesterday on the parking situation. That's probably because everyone affected was still trying to get out of the stadium. But feel free to send them feedback today.

I've been praying for a public transportation there for years, but figured that was as likely as getting Britney Spears to take up the violin. (Terrible analogy, I know, I haven't had coffee yet.) Still, there's gotta be a way.

2007-04-10 10:45:10
16.   Disabled List
7 Jon: "The McCourts have uranium in their hands"

Interesting phrase. What does it mean?

It means that the McCourts are defying the UN Security Council and are going to be faced with sanctions unless they allow inspectors in.

2007-04-10 10:48:30
17.   jasonungar05
It's to bad Ned didn't hire the parking lot attendants. Then they would want to be parking lot attendants.
2007-04-10 10:50:43
18.   Disabled List
17 That got an actual LOL from me. There's a Pierre/Gonzalez joke to be made here, but I'm not thinking of it right now.
2007-04-10 10:50:54
19.   ToyCannon
I'd understand the complaint over the parking fee's if the same people weren't forking over $8 per beer. Your forced to pay $15 if you want to park in the stadium but no one is forcing you to spend $32 on four beers and yet that seems to be the norm. I am surprised that no one has ever orchestrated a boycott of beer to make a point about the price. How hard would it be to not drink a beer for 3 hours to make a point.

As Vishal says, it does seem strange to pay more to park then your ticket costs. A normal Laker ticket is now around 95.00 and parking is $20 but can be done for $10 if you want to walk a little further. A Clipper ticket is $45 and parking is $5 - $15. In each case you have the option of the blue or red line which is $3 round trip.

2007-04-10 10:53:46
20.   moondog
This was my 18th opening day in the past 19 years. What a MESS. Harbor Freeway north.... Got to the Academy/Solano exit at 10:45am. Traffic was backed up all the way onto the freeway and through the tunnel. NEVER happened on that "backdoor" entrance. Got to Lot H at 11:30am. Got out pretty quick the same way and that's after watching the last out from my seat in Aisle 28.

Part of the problem is that they created a "panic" with all of the emails/warnings they sent out. People who normally do not show up early were showing up 3 hours before the game.

They need to open the gates 4 hours before gametime on opening day and hire extra security. Simple as that. This "no tailgate" rule is stupid and antiquated. If the O'Malley's were still running things, I'd be okay with the rule since we WERE a class organization. NEWSBREAK----> we are not (much of) a class organization anymore so why don't you at least allow us to have a good time.

2007-04-10 10:55:41
21.   Frip
All they have to do is higher a logistics expert. It all reeks of amateurism. I get the feeling that management has a little stadium model in the break room with a handwritten note saying "any ideas?" and people tinker with it while munching a Snickers.
2007-04-10 11:03:22
22.   Dodgers49
16. It means that the McCourts are defying the UN Security Council and are going to be faced with sanctions unless they allow inspectors in.

Or maybe "Shock and awe."

2007-04-10 11:05:42
23.   Zak
16 It means Jack Bauer will make it from the 5 freeway to inside Dodger Stadium within 7 minutes (before the commercial break), irrespective of traffic, and shoot Jamie McCourt in the thigh. Then the President of Boston Parking Lots will call Frank McCourt and order that he let Jack out of Dodger Stadium without international sanctions.
2007-04-10 11:07:43
24.   FirstMohican
"tell the parking lot attendants who were just standing around, watching this mess passively that, if they can't think of what to do about it, at least pretend to care."

They are attendants, not parking lot design consultants. If they're not doing their job then call them on it. But their job shouldn't include ensuring we think they like thier job.

---

Also for anyone who experienced the delays, specifically, what is causing the bottleneck? Is it the exit gates at the stadium, the freeway onramps outside of the stadium, or signals/stop signs?

The reason I ask is that it is possible the problem may not be with Dodger Stadium, but just outside, in City or State jurisdiction.

2007-04-10 11:10:33
25.   Greg S
Obscenity is something that we can't define but we know it when we see it. $15 parking that is a mile from your seat and takes an hour to escape, is obscene.
Ticket prices that have skyrocketed in recent years are less so. I think most people get that supply and demand sets prices for most things including tickets. But when you've ALREADY paid for the ticket, dumping on $15 for a place to park is not okay. The ticket is for the full experience. It's like the ticky tack fees that ticketmaster charges (handling fee, location fee, facility fee, hahayoureasucker fee). Make's everyone crazy.

If McCourt raised every ticket price by an average of $15 and then made parking free, I think he would be celebrated as a hero and would make more money in the process. Make your money on your product and then back off shoving add ons down your customers throat.

2007-04-10 11:14:40
26.   Frip
It may not be fixable till we all ride bikes.

Where there is no solution, there is no problem.

2007-04-10 11:15:41
27.   Daniel Zappala
I'm amazed the McCourts haven't bought/built a large parking structure somewhere in downtown LA, then setup a shuttle system to ferry patrons between the facility and the stadium, complete with dedicated lanes for the shuttle. It would be pretty simple to set up and very efficient. In fact, I bet they could do it with the already-provided parking near the Staples Center.
2007-04-10 11:17:29
28.   FirstMohican
25 - What's the incentive for people to ride their bike, take public transit, or carpool?
2007-04-10 11:20:11
29.   still bevens
The two biggest problems with the Sunset gate were the following:

1. We got to the gate around 11 and the lines didn't seem any longer than usual, however, there was an entire lane right where the hill slopes up to the ticket booths that was blocked by a sign indicating where the employee parking entrance was. Shouldn't the employees know where to park already, and secondly, does it require a giant light sign that takes up an entire lane to enter the park?

2. Upon exiting, it was anarchy. There were no parking personnel trying to regulate people getting out of the lot on to the main drag out to Sunset. You had a gigantic bottleneck of about 6-7 'lanes' of cars trying to fit into one tiny exit which was already full of cars exiting from the preferred lots. I don't know if its a problem the parking attendants could handle since its bedlam, but the fact that it was a total free for all didn't inspire much confidence in the new 'system' and it didn't even provide any evidence that a 'system' existed in the first place.

2007-04-10 11:23:18
30.   D4P
The McCourts need to be responsive to fan complaints, not in denial

I'm not here to defend the McCourts, but to be fair, haven't they been generally responsive complaints in the past? Seems to me they've put reasonable effort into responding to (at least some subset) of the fans, whether through personnel changes or stadium renovations.

Whether the changes have been "good" or not is a separate question.

2007-04-10 11:25:27
31.   FirstMohican
Another thing: Keep in mind that the game ended during peak period. The freeways and streets surrounding the stadium area already to capacity and now have 40k new cars introduced. The queue of cars can extend into Dodger Stadium making it appear as though the stadium is at fault, while it is actually due to factors outside of the stadium that the McCourts cannot control.

I have a feeling tonight will be much better.

2007-04-10 11:25:59
32.   Bluebleeder87
Star sightings from yesterday: Jaime Jarrin & his dirty Mercedes & somebody next to me said they saw Jaime McCourt & his son drive up.
2007-04-10 11:26:29
33.   Daniel Zappala
It's really pretty simple. There are more cars in the lots then there is capacity to carry them out. You can either increase capacity or reduce the number of cars. A shuttle to an external lot is probably the most realistic way to reduce the number of cars, by putting a bunch of people on buses.
2007-04-10 11:28:33
34.   Dodgers49
24 - The reason I ask is that it is possible the problem may not be with Dodger Stadium, but just outside, in City or State jurisdiction.

>>> Cindy Myers, 50, of Yorba Linda, who said she has attended more than a dozen opening days and "never ever" missed a first pitch or ceremony, breathed a sigh of relief when she got to the Stadium Way exit off the 5 Freeway at 11:30 a.m. But she was still bottled up in the parking lot two hours later when she heard the crowd roar as pitcher Jason Schmidt belted a third-inning home run.

By the time Myers got to her seat, it was the middle of the fourth inning, and she was practically in tears. She planned to demand a refund for the game — and maybe even for the rest of her family's 15-game mini-season pass.

"I don't care if I ever go to another Dodger game," she said. "I can't imagine going there again on Wednesday night." <<<

http://tinyurl.com/yo9j5q

2007-04-10 11:30:13
35.   Jacob L
19 There's nothing orchestrated about it, but I'm boycotting beer at the park. Also, I had to argue with a concession worker yesterday that she should give me the 4th hot dog that I paid for. And I'm usually defending the concession workers here.

Anyway, I know Jon always gets annoyed when people say this, but I never park in the parking lot, and I recommend that approach to anyone who can manage it. Its good exercise. Even yesterday, I carried my daughter (who ways about 28 pounds) a good 1/2 mile to and from the car, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Also, the other thing I always mention in these discussions is the abandoned Scott Ave. gate. The closing of that gate, when the O'Malleys wanted football, was when the system broke down.

2007-04-10 11:32:21
36.   Jacob L
35 Ugh. Ways = weighs.
2007-04-10 11:32:51
37.   Bluebleeder87
33

I'd be all for that.

2007-04-10 11:33:40
38.   Jacob L
Going for the cycle here. I lived in Echo Park for 4 years before moving last month. I am willing to hire myself out as a "stadium access consultant," who can show you the back roads and secret parking spots that are the key to easy ingress and egress.
2007-04-10 11:35:19
39.   Jon Weisman
30 - They've been hit and miss, at best.
2007-04-10 11:36:34
40.   underdog
You can chat with Brett Tomko this afternoon before the game today, at 2pm. (Be kind. Ask him about his art if you have to.)
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/fan_forum/chat.jsp?c_id=la

But more interesting to me is the upcoming chat with DeJon Watson...

2007-04-10 11:37:40
41.   Jacob L
39 Its worse than hit and miss. They have a general PR orientation, but then they go and do incredibly stupid or insensitive things to tick their customers off. It makes it seem like they're pretending to care.

Did anybody have any comments on the RF pavillion smorgasbord?

2007-04-10 11:45:32
42.   dzzrtRatt
24 FirstMohican, 29 nails what I was referring to by describing the parking lot attendents "standing around." "Upon exiting, it was anarchy. There were no parking personnel trying to regulate people getting out of the lot on to the main drag out to Sunset. You had a gigantic bottleneck of about 6-7 'lanes' of cars trying to fit into one tiny exit which was already full of cars exiting from the preferred lots. I don't know if its a problem the parking attendants could handle since its bedlam, but the fact that it was a total free for all didn't inspire much confidence in the new 'system' and it didn't even provide any evidence that a 'system' existed in the first place."

To some degree, that's always been true, but at least we didn't have to think about how much of those five extra dollars were going toward paying people to do nothing.

And when I say "nothing," I mean that at one of the free-for-all points, while pedestrians were trying to get across the egress, two orange- suited attendants loitered at the other end, watching the pedestrians get trapped as the drivers continued to push their way through while the pedestrians were trapped.

At the very least, they could have roused themselves to step into the morass and taken control for the 60 seconds that would have been required to help these pedestrians. They did have those uniforms. The cars would have stopped for them if they used a few hand signals.

Then they could have gone right back to their important work of stretching their arms, and looking absently off into the distance.

2007-04-10 11:45:52
43.   Terry A
I have no experience from which to draw with regards to DS parking, but this appears to have been a complete nightmare.

Congratulations, Mr. McCourt. Sounds like you created the equivalent of New Coke.

Again.

2007-04-10 11:47:17
44.   D4P
They've been hit and miss, at best

Do you mean

1. They've ignored problems
2. They've addressed problems, but unsuccessfully
3. Both

2007-04-10 11:48:55
45.   bhsportsguy
One of the more interesting sights yesterday was watching the interaction between Steve Sax and Tommy Lasorda (they gave each other of those very quick hugs). Sax, who had no blue on at all and I thought it was a little strange to have him there, there was no video of his career highlights (okay maybe standing on deck when Gibby hits his homer is not a big video moment) but still, if he was a Yankee, there would have been something put together. But then I don't think Sax has been a part of the organization since his left so perhaps there is no love loss between the two.
2007-04-10 11:50:22
46.   nick
ok, this is a self-interested question, but I need to ask. coming in from out of town for a weekend game, why wouldn't I, eg, park in Pasadena, or somewhere at the end of a subway line, take the subway in to Chinatown, and walk to the stadium? this may, of course, simply reveal my naivete....
2007-04-10 11:50:29
47.   Dodgers49
41 - Did anybody have any comments on the RF pavillion smorgasbord?

The fans interviewed in the article below were happy with it.

>>> Comments were more upbeat from fans who managed to get through the traffic to arrive in plenty of time to scarf down the culinary offerings in the right-field all-you-can eat section. <<<

http://tinyurl.com/yo9j5q

2007-04-10 11:52:29
48.   Jacob L
46 Entirely possible, but a fairly long and hilly, and unpleasant walk.
2007-04-10 11:52:31
49.   regfairfield
34 That's insane, two hours to park when you arrive an hour and a half early? Last year it took me about two minutes to park if I got there 45 minutes to an hour before game time.
2007-04-10 11:53:19
50.   Daniel Zappala
Weaver the older getting pounded by Boston.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-04-10 11:54:55
51.   Jon Weisman
44 3. They have had successes, but often their response has just been off-target.
2007-04-10 11:55:13
52.   tskent
I noticed Antonio Perez wasn't on the A's roster. It looks likes he at AAA Sacramento.
He's currently OPS'ing .091. LOL...
2007-04-10 11:55:44
53.   D4P
Weaver has recorded 3 outs thus far on 61 pitches
2007-04-10 11:56:24
54.   bhsportsguy
42 The lot I left (I think it is number 7 now) out to the Sunset exit had coned off the right lane and traffic moved pretty well.

Of course it took me a hour to get out the night of 4+1 but people that night really didn't complain about that.

I do think that the parking situation is unique because you have people trying to get to a myriad of freeways or surface streets.

The worse traffic leaving a game that I was part of recently was leaving the Rose Bowl from UCLA vs. USC game last December, I later heard that the Pasadena Police Dept. had an issue that day with the Rose Bowl so there were people working that day with no experience with that size of a crowd but it took me 45 minutes to get off the golf course and 1 1/2 hours to get to South Pasadena.

2007-04-10 11:56:41
55.   tskent
Maybe that WS ring is weighing him down. LOL...
2007-04-10 11:56:55
56.   blue22
53 - Including 47 pitches in the 1st inning!

47!!

2007-04-10 11:58:46
57.   ToyCannon
Maybe Weaver should pull a Clemens and skip April/May.
2007-04-10 11:59:37
58.   Marty
47 So, that's where all the Dodger Dogs went.
2007-04-10 11:59:45
59.   Daniel Zappala
And now a homer by Drew.
2007-04-10 12:01:04
60.   blue22
52 - Perez cleared waivers and was sent to the minors prior to the season.
2007-04-10 12:01:15
61.   ToyCannon
In the end I'm hoping this parking debacle on opening day will force them to consider Daniel's shuttle idea. When we talked about this at length during Jon's request for a quality solution it seemed that shuttles would have to be part of the solution since metro rails to DS are unreasonable at this pint in time.
2007-04-10 12:01:23
62.   D4P
The next 3 outs took 9 pitches
2007-04-10 12:02:26
63.   ToyCannon
Greg Brock's demon got a hold of my "point" and turned it into a "pint".
2007-04-10 12:02:54
64.   Snowdog
A friend of mine, who attended the game, had an interesting comment, noting there were cars parked in traffic lanes. He asked if McCourt was paying off the Fire Marshall to allow this. He said what should have been 4 lanes of egress, was only 2 lanes due to cars parked in 2 of the lanes. In other words, if an ambulance/police car/fire engine has to get in the park for whatever reason while folks are leaving (even coming?) - fuggetaboutit. He ended his rant on parking with: "Dude, I am done with Dodger Stadium and watching all my games on TV."
2007-04-10 12:04:18
65.   bhsportsguy
Dodger Stadium is unique that it has entrances that are directly related to what area you sit in, most new stadiums that I have been to allow everyone to enter through various points and then they usually walk up rampways to the various levels.

But because of how Dodger Stadium is designed, the preferred lots were put in areas where you could easily access your point of entry while certain GA lots were better for certain entrances.

Now, I think for every game where you hit 48K and above, you are going to have parking and traffic issues, anything smaller you are going to be okay. But as their average ticket sales get above 47K, I think the parking lot design and frankly the stadium design causes real logistics problems. And when you add folks wanting to get to their various freeways, I don't know how you address it.

2007-04-10 12:04:42
66.   tskent
60 - He's a mirror image of Wilson Valdez.
Just without the stroke or the glove.....LOL
2007-04-10 12:05:33
67.   Marty
63 Interesting typo coming from a guy advocating a beer boycott :)
2007-04-10 12:06:17
68.   natepurcell
i think this was mentioned in the last thread but...

delywn young: dodgers

scott hairston: dbacks

2007-04-10 12:06:30
69.   Mr Customer
54 The Rose Bowl definitely takes the prize for traffic hell. The only redemption is that the games are on the weekend, and they do not usually bump up against rush hour.

Really, though, we're talking about an LA problem, not a DS problem. If I had any other way to get to a game rather than self-piloting, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

2007-04-10 12:07:07
70.   natepurcell
66

both players are basically replacement level players at this point. Valdez is just currently hot and it wont last.

2007-04-10 12:07:31
71.   regfairfield
68 I don't think it's a valid comparison. Hairston destroyed AAA last year, Young was pretty bad for a corner outfielder.
2007-04-10 12:07:52
72.   nick
48--ok, thanks!...the alternatives also sound unpleasant, and more time-consuming to boot--
2007-04-10 12:09:36
73.   natepurcell
71

hairston did destroy AAA last year and I think Young is going to destroy AAA in the same sense this year.

both were originally 2b moved to corner outfield spots because they couldnt field. both have hit at every stop in the minors. Both are known to be very good hitters. Both players are parts of orgs that basically wont give them a chance unless of a ton of injuries.

2007-04-10 12:13:07
74.   ToyCannon
71
But Hairston was repeating AAA for the 3rd time. Last year was Young's first full season in AAA. This year I expect he will destroy AAA much like Hairston did last year. Seems like a valid comparison to me.
2007-04-10 12:13:41
75.   KBL
46

I think I mapped out that walk once since I am in Pasadena, and it is about 3 miles, mostly uphill to the stadium from there.

2007-04-10 12:13:51
76.   blue22
73 - Isn't Hairston their starting leftfielder? Quentin is down, but I don't see anyone else in his way.
2007-04-10 12:14:58
77.   ToyCannon
The other thing about D Young is that if you look at his minor league history he always struggled the first few months in a league and then was usually the best hitter in the league over the final couple of months. It was surprising that he didn't do the same in Vegas last year but he'll do some damage this year.
2007-04-10 12:15:27
78.   natepurcell
73

yes finally after being pinned on his last option and the dbacks not having the ability to send him down anymore at the risk of not losing him.

hes finally getting his chance now but when quentin comes back i think hes going to struggle for ABs again.

2007-04-10 12:15:38
79.   Daniel Zappala
I don't suppose it's possible to get a taxi from Chinatown to the stadium and back afterwards?
2007-04-10 12:15:49
80.   ToyCannon
76
Davannon is on the DL or he would be playing. Once Quentin and Davannon come back Hairston will be a 5th outfielder.
2007-04-10 12:17:02
81.   Eric Enders
I haven't been to Dodger Stadium since I was 10, so I've never had the pleasure of negotiating the traffic. However, there seems to be an obvious reason why the McCourts would never allow an option like wholesale shuttling of fans from an external site: They'd lose $15 for each carload that took the shuttle. Obviously they could charge for a shuttle, but (a) they probably couldn't get $15 for it, and (b) Any charge would provide a disincentive for people to use it and thus put you back at square one.
2007-04-10 12:17:03
82.   ToyCannon
How far is it from DS to the 1st Chinatown Gold line stop?
2007-04-10 12:17:27
83.   regfairfield
73 I guess that's where our evaluations differ. I don't think Young can come anywhere near Hairston's .323/.407/.591. Young couldn't hit lefties at all last year, and that's going to prevent him from putting up a near 1.000 OPS.

Was his .198/.235/.325 against lefties a fluke last year? If it was, then maybe he can tear it up. Until then, I don't see much out of him other than 25th man material.

2007-04-10 12:18:54
84.   Marty
82 I would guess it's a couple miles to the gate.
2007-04-10 12:20:29
85.   tskent
The Dbacks will struggle to finish .500 this season. Webb will regress from last season. And when you look at starters 2-4, you see they are .500 fodder at their best. (Johnson, Davis, Livan) Their catching situation is worse with the loss of Johnny E. Jackson has shown he has no pop. Tracy has proven to be average at best. I like Hudson and Bynres. They will put up similar numbers to last season. Then you have Drew and the other young outfielders who don't have the experience for the rigors of a 162 game season. Their bullpen doesn't give me the willies either.
2007-04-10 12:20:30
86.   ToyCannon
81
They have stated repeatedly that a huge goal for the organization is 4,000,000 fans. As Daniel said I don't think they can reach that target without more effective options for the fans to get to the game. As they sell more tickets more problems will arise and tickets sales will stagnate at a certain level. That would be the incentive but you might be right. Normally I'd disagree but the proof is in the pudding with the $15 parking price.
2007-04-10 12:20:44
87.   Marty
Somebody already suggested the answer to this problem. McCourt should build an off-site parking structure. Then he gets to keep the parking revenue and reduce traffic.

Now, all he has to do is find some land.

2007-04-10 12:21:20
88.   Daniel Zappala
81 But if the shuttle was to a parking lot they owned and they collected the parking fee, that might be different.

Also, even if wasn't their parking lot, their incentive would be to improve the fan experience, which would bring more fans and more money over the long run. If the shuttle was free or a nominal cost, the incentive for fans to use it would be that they would have a free lane to quickly get out of the stadium. I'm sure you'd pay for a fast $5 shuttle out to a $10 downtown lot.

2007-04-10 12:22:30
89.   DodgerBakers
I remember going to a Dodgers-Braves game at the old Fulton County Stadium back when the Braves were really good and in our division. Dodger won 5-3 which was great. Even though the game was well attended and we left after the last out, we got out and onto a freeway within about 10 minutes. I think the Dodgers should hire whoever designed that parking to fix theirs.
2007-04-10 12:22:51
90.   Bob Timmermann
I got home from the USC-UCLA game in about 45 minutes, most of that the walk to my car.

For a sold out event there, it's best to pony up to pay people at outside lots instead of parking at Brookside Park. A golf course is not designed to be a parking lot.

Then again, Dodger Stadium's parking lots are designed to parking lots and they have an equally bad mess.

And you can take public transit to the Rose Bowl fairly easily, by taking the Gold Line to Memorial Park and then either walking to the Parsons Lot to take a shuttle or just walking all the way in.

The Rose Bowl's problem last year was in ticket taking. I got stuck for over an hour trying to get in there and missed the first 7-8 minutes of the game.

2007-04-10 12:23:35
91.   Benaiah
81 - Wouldn't people have to pay to park there? Couldn't McCourt set up a deal with that parking facility, or just charge a few bucks for the shuttle and make money back that way?
2007-04-10 12:24:00
92.   ToyCannon
83
I agree that he won't be a star or maybe not even a starter but I do think he'll eventually carve out a role as a solid 4th/5th outfielder. When you look at the Marlins playing Borchard/Ross/Anza I think he will have a major league future. I'll be surprised if he doesn't end up with a pension.
2007-04-10 12:24:38
93.   Daniel Zappala
Even a much smaller venue like the Hollywood Bowl has a shuttle system established.
2007-04-10 12:27:15
94.   Bob Timmermann
A shuttle lot requires a dedicated lane for ingress/egress for the shuttle buses. I don't know where that could be built.

I also don't know where a shuttle lot could logically be constructed. The Coliseum uses remote lots by Staples. The Rose Bowl uses a remote lot in Old Pasadena.

I suppose the big lot in front of Staples could work, but that would likely only be used if Staples were dark (which it isn't a lot) and for people coming from the south and I think a lot of Dodger fans are coming from the SFV.

2007-04-10 12:28:04
95.   Bluebleeder87
Really, though, we're talking about an LA problem, not a DS problem.

Exactly.

2007-04-10 12:29:06
96.   Eric Enders
85 FWIW, I disagree with basically every one of those player assessments.
2007-04-10 12:30:54
97.   underdog
I'm rooting for Delwyn Young personally because I saw him play at Sta Barbara City College. He may very well be only 4th/5th OF material at best but solid, if not in LA then somewhere.
2007-04-10 12:32:46
98.   Bob Timmermann
93
But the Hollywood Bowl operates for a very brief period and almost at night.

And because it's small, it doesn't need very big lots. The Hollywood Bowl only seats around 17,000.

Also, some of the shuttle services are terrible. Some times the MTA just forgets to send a bus to certain locations to pick people up.

2007-04-10 12:32:51
99.   bhsportsguy
90 Let me know where I can find those lots, I think the Notre Dame game will rival the USC game, at least in attendance.

93 I think the thing about the Hollywood Bowl shuttles is that they are limited so they know that they will only need a certain number of buses and drivers.

Even the Parsons lots are run only 5-7 times a year on Saturdays or New Year's Day.

Also concerts and football games have reliable ending times, baseball games as George Carlin said never know when they are going to end.

2007-04-10 12:35:07
100.   underdog
I think we should kill two birds with one stone and ask Brett Tomko what he thinks of the parking situation.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-04-10 12:38:10
101.   Bob Timmermann
99
Go to the Gamble House and take a right.
2007-04-10 12:41:51
102.   JoeyP
I think we should kill two birds with one stone and ask Brett Tomko what he thinks of the parking situation.

He'd help the Dodgers more as a parking attendant than his current role.

2007-04-10 12:42:37
103.   bhsportsguy
98 Last year, the MTA estimated it would cost around 700K to run a shuttle service. So that is around 9000 a game. To charge a reasonable amount, $5-$6, you would need on average 1600-1800 cars per game or about 10-15% of the average driving into Dodger Stadium.

The best way to deal with this is to pre-sell it with some same day sales.

I would market this to any season ticket holder who doesn't buy preferred parking, all mini-plans and group sales. First survey those groups and get a read if they would pre-pay for it up front with their renewal, promise them preferred parking spots for those who sign up early enough.

If you could get that pool of money, then you could negotiate with some local lots to place it. The problem has Bob outlined above is the need for dedicated lanes but if there is an entrance that isn't being used right now (Scott Ave. ?) why not go ahead and use that. Sure you lose out on some income but it would be good start on eliminating some headaches and it would show some proactiveness on this issue.

Okay, I need to be this productive in the job that pays me.

2007-04-10 12:48:21
104.   tskent
Actually I think Jason Grabowski, Steve Schmoll, Scott Erickson, and Hee Seop Choi are parking attendants
2007-04-10 12:54:49
105.   ToyCannon
LAD AAA LaRoche, Andy 3B ........... 5 2 2 1 .227 - HR (1)
LAD AAA Young, Delwyn LF ........... 3 2 2 1 .474
LAD AA Megrew, Mike ............. 7.0 3 0 0 0 6 0.00
LAD AA Meloan, Jonathan .......... 2.0 1 0 0 0 3 0.00 - W (1-0)
2007-04-10 13:04:51
106.   DadofMondy
Entering the stadium was easier than usual. I arrived via the Sunset entrance at about 11am. We WERE allowed to tailgate (or the security/LAPD were blind to the Dodger tent that set up next to me). We always stick around and play catch after the game, so I think we left after 5, and it seemed to take a bit longer than usual (although I don't normally leave via the 5 freeway that I was compelled to leave by).

I am reserving judgment, actually. If they are allowing tailgating and not having plain-clothes cops running around this year, that'll make me happier. I got a ticket from a surly LAPD for drinking in public that was unnecessary, and unwarranted. I want to see how a midweek game is. I know it's going to be tough on Opening Day.

I had fun asking everyone of the yellow jacket guys that were lined up one after another where do I go to park, and especially the three that were standing directly behind my spot. But, then, I'm hilarious. My friends tell me I should do stand up.

2007-04-10 13:10:43
107.   Disabled List
I've been living in New York for almost three years, and the thought of NOT taking public transportation to a baseball game boggles my mind now. I really do think that's the solution for Dodger Stadium's troubles. But it'll take some effort and vision on the part of LA's civic leaders, who didn't have the foresight when building the Gold Line to think that a highly-attended stadium in a hugely populous region with notorious traffic problems might be benefited by a mass transit option.

Both of the NYC stadiums have easily accessible subway stops, so that makes getting in and out of the game a relative snap. The nearest Metro stop to Dodger Stadium is the Chinatown station, but it's not really feasible to ask fans to take a long hike across a freeway and up and down that hill. The solution is to build a dedicated, part-time station in the Dodger Stadium parking lot. This station would be open only on game days, and would be a spur of the Gold Line just north of the Chinatown station. On non-game days, the stop would be bypassed by the trains. (The NYC subway has a similar part-time station setup for the Aqueduct racetrack.) Looking on Google Maps, there's room for this spur to be built on the empty railyards between N. Spring St. and N. Broadway. The Gold Line is an elevated line in this part of town, so it wouldn't involve any super-expensive tunneling. It could cross over Broadway and the 110, go up the hill, and enter the stadium area near the Downtown Gate.

Besides the obvious obstacles (cost, local opposition, weenie politicians), there are two stumbling hurdles to this idea. One is getting the McCourts to sign on to this (as Eric mentioned in 81). I think fans might be willing to pay a modest surcharge to avoid the parking problems, and if McCourt requries a payoff to make this work, then I guss that's what it'll have to take. The other problem is that the Metro Rail shuts down around midnight, if memory serves right, so that could make extra-inning games problematic for rail-riders. But if other cities can make rail a feasible option for getting in and out of games, I believe LA can too.

2007-04-10 13:16:36
108.   Icaros
104

Aren't you the one who said Luis Gonzalez is a future Hall of Famer in a previous thread?

2007-04-10 13:19:20
109.   goofus
87Now, all he has to do is find some land...
Land swap. If he builds several parking structures at various places around the city and furnishes shuttle buses, then he won't need all that parking lot. He can swap some of that very desireable land for land elsewhere to build the garages, or maybe he has some plans of his own to put in money making businesses there.
2007-04-10 13:19:27
110.   twerp
104 A bit later this year, if he keeps pitching like he is, old friend Odalis Perez may be a DS parking attendant. He'd be the best paid one by far, at about $7.75 mil from the Dodgers.

He'd fit right in with the indifferent attendant attitude described in some comments here.

BTW, I think Choi's playing in Korea.

2007-04-10 13:20:13
111.   Jacob L
107 I generally like where you're going with that, but that "empty" piece of land north of the gold Line Stop is currently being developed into a State park, and one that people, for better or worse, fought tooth and nail to have placed there. But I agree that there must be some way to make the existing Gold Line infrastructure investment work for Dodgers Stadium. All it would take is vision, commitment, leadership, and a pile of money.
2007-04-10 13:20:37
112.   still bevens
106 I think they only 'allow' tailgating on Opening Day. Last year on Opening Day we tailgated with impunity, but this year we were told by some cops rolling around in an unmarked suburban that 'tailgating is not allowed' about 25-30 minutes before game time, which was fine with me. We had our fun in the parking lot and made it to the opening intros right on time.
2007-04-10 13:21:21
113.   ToyCannon
Hey Nate did you notice that Matt Riley is on the AA team? I remember when he was the LHP prospect of choice from the Orioles a few years ago. Wonder if he still throws hard or has his arm joined his head in a conflagration of promise.
2007-04-10 13:21:47
114.   Bob Timmermann
111
Sounds like someone wants to wish Frank McCourt into the Cornfield!
2007-04-10 13:22:52
115.   JimBilly4
I've long held that Dodger Stadium should do what Disney did with its parking situation. They took their miles of parking and stacked them up into 3 story garages while seemingly improving traffic flow in and out. McCourt should get whoever designed their new system on the phone.

This of course leads to my master scheme, where I turn the parking into 3 story garages, fit more cars into the stadium, while still freeing up more than a third of the parking lot for some sort of development, say condos with city views. Design a little mini-community right in the backyard of the stadium. Make a subsection low-cost housing and you could get a win-win-win situation. Better parking, McCourt making a ton of money, some more housing (although admittedly a drop in the bucket, but good pr nonetheless).

I think the biggest problem with this "solution" is that i bet it would take 18 months to build even one of these gigantic, Disney-style garages. Where do you park people for that season?

Oh, and I have walked from the Gold Line in Chinatown. Half an hour, but all uphill. Quite do-able, but you will be sweaty. Also would feel a little sketchy at night if you were one of 4 people walking back to the line...

2007-04-10 13:23:48
116.   Jacob L
114 Loosely quoted . . .

"Hey, you want to come with us? No, not you. Him."

2007-04-10 13:25:04
117.   Sushirabbit
Sort of way out there, but teachers and parents might appreciate this:

NY Mags How Not to Talk to Your Kids
http://tinyurl.com/yvg8gx

2007-04-10 13:29:16
118.   bhsportsguy
107 Again, the issue is if you build it, will people use it? This is Los Angeles, people with cars will not use public transportation if it one, makes their trip longer to deal with than just driving, two, is inconvenient or three costs relatively the same as driving there.

And again, Dodger Stadium was built with the car in mind, not public transportation.

I would say the cost is prohibitive to extending the Gold Line to Dodger Stadium for a little less than 25% of the days of the year for usage.

I think figuring out better ways of getting public transportation to local airports would be a better use of MTA's time and money.

2007-04-10 13:30:14
119.   Penarol1916
117. Read that article a couple of weeks ago, I thought it was very interesting, and lot of it reminded me of when I was little, especially wanting to avoid to challenges and not let down people who called me smart.
2007-04-10 13:30:34
120.   tskent
110. I thought he was in camp with the DRays. Must have misread or misheard something cause I can't find him anywhere on their roster. Couldn't find him in the minors either.
2007-04-10 13:32:25
121.   FirstMohican
34 - I was referring to exiting the stadium.

42 - I'm not saying they did their job, I'm saying they don't have to like their job or even look like they do.

-

It would be nice to have at least one of the critics of the parking situation acknowledge that the game ended during rush hour and that the McCourts can't control the traffic outside of the stadium. In my experience, many people don't understand the concept of road networks having a limited capacity and that at some point, there's very little that can be done.

I predict for anyone who went yesterday and is going today that exiting the stadium will be noticeably better.

2007-04-10 13:33:05
122.   dzzrtRatt
69, 95

Really, you think so? It seems to me the main problem at DS is getting un-parked. The LA traffic is awful, no question, but it takes a long time to even get to it. Obviously, if Dodger Stadium was surrounded by empty 8 lane highways, the egress might not be quite as bad...but it would still be bad.

2007-04-10 13:34:52
123.   trainwreck
Arron Afflalo will announce his NBA plans at 3:15 today. It appears he is entering the NBA draft.
2007-04-10 13:38:53
124.   Greg Brock
117 Great article, though the self-esteemistas probably aren't going to like it very much.
2007-04-10 13:39:40
125.   Benaiah
120 - He didn't make it out of camp and was drafted by a Korean Team. Jim Tracy more or less destroyed his career.
2007-04-10 13:40:34
126.   Disabled List
117 The more accessible a subway system is, the more people will use it. With a rail system as limited as LA's, it is difficult to get people out of their cars, for all the reasons you mentioned. However, the more accessible you make it - with features such as stops at stadiums and easy access to the airport - then people will use it more and more.

It is a myth that LA was entirely built around the automobile. The suburbs, maybe, but the central city area of Los Angeles was built around the streetcar. Public transportation was once the norm in LA, and it can work again, but a huge investment in infrastructure is required. It's tough going, but with a huge population that is growing denser by the day, what are the alternatives?

2007-04-10 13:41:19
127.   Disabled List
Err, 126 is in response to 118, not 117.
2007-04-10 13:41:37
128.   Marty
The entire Jackie Robinson story, the one starring Jackie himself, on Google video:

http://tinyurl.com/ys24op

2007-04-10 13:42:09
129.   FirstMohican
This is Los Angeles, people with cars will not use public transportation if it one, makes their trip longer to deal with than just driving, two, is inconvenient or three costs relatively the same as driving there.

For a year I rode the bus (and still occasionally do) from Palms to Downtown and it double my commute.

Dodger Stadium was built with the car in mind, not public transportation.

Which means way more open space for public transportation. Have a lane dedicated to shuttles who will then have zero wait time. You can have shuttles coming from Union Station, Blue/Red Station on 7th St., and from off-site parking lots.

I think figuring out better ways of getting public transportation to local airports would be a better use of MTA's time and money.

Dodgers would have to pay for it.

2007-04-10 13:44:20
130.   twerp
120 Story on Choi being drafted by the Korean team. Most current thing I know of--

http://tinyurl.com/2nhaez

2007-04-10 13:47:55
131.   tskent
130. I reckon he'll become the David Ortiz of the Korean League. LOL..
2007-04-10 13:48:49
132.   Benaiah
124 - Au contraire, this is proof that self-esteem is far more important than originally thought. The important thing is to teach the right kind of esteem for one's self.
2007-04-10 13:49:06
133.   bhsportsguy
To sum up my opinion on the shuttle system, make it a pre-paid lot like the preferred parking so the Dodgers would be able to figure out exactly what the market is for this kind of service, the shuttle would have to be moderately priced, and direct entry and exits would have to be secured.

The first step though is to figure out exactly is this something that people will use, if there are only a 500-1000 per game, how much will that affect the traffic?

2007-04-10 13:49:57
134.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers tried Union Station one year and it apparently didn't work out for some reason. But I've never heard a satisfactory reason for why it didn't work.

You would think an event like yesterday would spur people to want such a deal.

2007-04-10 13:52:51
135.   Jacob L
134 I don't know if there's an official reason for the failure but I suspect that only offering the shuttle for Friday night games didn't help.
2007-04-10 13:53:01
136.   Daniel Zappala
126 I miss the days of open fields in Los Angeles and riding the Red Car to Alhambra.
2007-04-10 13:54:36
137.   Greg Brock
132 Praising innate ability is not the same as praising process and effort.

The self-esteem movement is more about how great you are, even if you aren't that great. We could probably talk in circles about this, but I'd venture we're talking about the same thing.

2007-04-10 13:58:54
138.   Benaiah
117 - That really is a wonderful article. I don't have kids, but I really started thinking about my own childhood and the way I deal with problems. Maybe I need to start complimenting myself on different things.
2007-04-10 13:59:00
139.   Marty
I have a very vague memory of seeing a red car in action in 1959 or 1960.
2007-04-10 14:00:09
140.   ToyCannon
The success of the Orange line kind of has killed the idea that LA residents won't use mass transportation. The line is already doing the numbers they projected for 10 years from now. It was one of the smartest projects Metro has done. Now they have lots of empty lots running along the busway begging to be used for Shuttle projects during the evening.
2007-04-10 14:00:14
141.   Benaiah
137 - I agree with you, sorry to contridict you. It is just amazing to me how important praise is, just make sure you praise the right things.
2007-04-10 14:02:29
142.   Marty
My mother took red cars everywhere around Los Angeles when she was growing up. I really wish they were still around. Updated with modern technology of course.
2007-04-10 14:02:50
143.   Bluebleeder87
I just submitted 2 question on the Tomko chat.
2007-04-10 14:04:42
144.   Daniel Zappala
142 Yes, Los Angeles really blew it with respect to public transportation.
2007-04-10 14:06:46
145.   daglew
How about some sort of funicular-type system that would connect one edge of the stadium lot to Chinatown and/or the Gold Line station? As some have pointed out, it's not so much the distance of the Stadium from public transit as the fact that you have to literally hike up a hill to get there. Make McCourt fund a transit connection in return for approval of the retail developments he's planning, and it's potentially a win-win situation for all concerned...parking may be a revenue source for the organization, but I'd go to a hell of a lot more games if getting to and from the Stadium was easier...
2007-04-10 14:06:49
146.   old dodger fan
Sometimes I complain that I now live in a AAA city with no MLB within 180 miles. Today I was reminded to count my blessings. I can park within a 5 minute walk of the stadium for $3; pay $8 for a good seat and be on the freeway 15 minutes after the game.

I get to see lots of good ballplayers (saw Choi last year) and some not so good (saw Jose Offerman in 2005). It's not MLB but it is fun and it sure is easier than what I saw in the thread above.

I still love to go to DS or any ML park when I can get there but AAA is a great experience. It's just too bad that it's International League and the Dodgers never come this way. Maybe interleague play will filter down here one day!!

2007-04-10 14:08:17
147.   Marty
What I really wish were still around are the trains to the resort hotel on Mt Lowe (actually Echo Mt.) above Altadena. I hike up to the ruins of the resort every now and then.
2007-04-10 14:12:15
148.   Greg Brock
141 I would imagine it is even worse for college professor types, facing a bunch of freshman kids that have never been bad at anything. Then they meet up with 150 kids in a class that were just as great as they were in high school.

Welcome to reality, kid.

2007-04-10 14:12:34
149.   Benaiah
Josh from Inside the Dodgers responded to a post in the comments:

"Rather than a new post, I figured I'd just answer the comments here, as I don't want you all to think that anyone here is pretending that everything is perfect. In fact, we realize that there's plenty of room for improvement. But I also think that everyone has to give this a chance to work on a day that's not Opening Day, given all of the issues I cited above. Much like a restaurant critic doesn't write their opinion off of the first time they eat at a new restaurant, it would be most fair if people give it a couple tries and then let us know what's working and what's not. But to gauge it on Opening Day, when we have 20,000 cars (significantly more than any other day), is really tough.

In regards to the various links above from jbc13, when I posted this morning at 7 a.m., I had really only read the two that I linked to. There's no doubt that some of the other links you've put up show that others had a very tough time getting in, but two of the links actually are from people who didn't come to the game and are citing reports from the L.A. Times and one of them actually talks about how it was smoother coming in than usual (though it was much worse leaving).

Again, I try to be very honest with this blog and as I said before, no one is thrilled with the way the parking went yesterday. However, I think we're far more optimistic that going forward, under regular circumstances and once most people have understood the way it works, it will be much better. Rome wasn't built in a day and I don't think we're going to fix our parking issues overnight. But, having come to Dodger games for three decades, I do know that just keeping things the way they've been for so many years isn't the right solution, as people have complained about the parking for as long as we've been playing here.

Thanks again for your comments and please keep them coming.

Josh"

2007-04-10 14:13:13
150.   FirstMohican
142 - Red cars were nice and all, but they still share the road with cars. In the past when congestion was tempered by the cost of cars, streetcars worked. Nowadays, you'll sit in the same amount of traffic and miss the comfort of your own car.

Essentially buses achieve the same thing that street cars do, are more versitile, can also be run with electricity (sacrificing versatility), and require less infrastructure. Streetcars today would require wheelchair ramps.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-04-10 14:13:52
151.   PalmdaleSteve1
No body walks in LA!

But what a concept, a people mover from the Gold Line to Dodger Stadium. What would that cost, maybe 20 Million? OK, maybe 50 Million by the time it gets done by the clowns in city hall. Heck Disney is right here in town and knows how to design one, so go ask.

I used to take the metro from South Bay up to LA convention center every year for the car show. It was cheaper than gas and parking, and only 10 to 15 minutes longer.

2007-04-10 14:14:51
152.   Daniel Zappala
147 Very cool. I will hike this my next time in LA.
2007-04-10 14:16:04
153.   Marty
149 That person, jbc13, had a duke.edu address. Isn't D4P at Duke?
2007-04-10 14:16:35
154.   Bluebleeder87
One of my questions just got answered, I basically asked him when he got interested in painting.
2007-04-10 14:16:43
155.   Benaiah
Much like a restaurant critic doesn't write their opinion off of the first time they eat at a new restaurant, it would be most fair if people give it a couple tries and then let us know what's working and what's not.

I thought it was a very nice response, but this shows that Josh has some misconceptions about the world of food criticism.

2007-04-10 14:17:04
156.   Daniel Zappala
147 The Wikipedia pages on this rail line (Mount Lowe Railway) are quite well done.
2007-04-10 14:17:05
157.   Benaiah
153 - UNC
2007-04-10 14:18:18
158.   Marty
152 Go to the top of Lake Avenue in Pasadena/Altadena. Enter through the iron gates of the old Cobb Estate. 2 1/2 miles later you are there. It's officially the Sam Merrill Trail.
2007-04-10 14:18:47
159.   Disabled List
155 I was thinking the same exact thing.
2007-04-10 14:20:07
160.   Benaiah
Also, the Padres just locked up Chris Young for four years 14.5 million.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2832278

2007-04-10 14:24:48
161.   Marty
I have some old postcards of the Mt. Lowe railway. My mother went on it a few times when she was young.

It was basically 3 lines. The first started about two blocks from where I currently live and went to Rubio canyon, where there also was a hotel. The second line was the "Great Incline" a funicular that went up Rubio Canyon to Echo Mountain, where there was a hotel, observatory and zoo. The third, and coolest IMO, was the Alpine line that went from Echo Mountain and snaked through the upper mountain canyons to a third resort.

The upper trails follow the Alpine line where you can still see some of the railroad ties, but that's about all that's left.

2007-04-10 14:24:56
162.   tskent
This is bad news. Bad news indeed. Chris Young is an EXCELLENT pitcher.

I was hoping the Pads would trade him for fodder. Doesn't look like it now.

2007-04-10 14:25:26
163.   KBL
115)

Part of the reason the Disney lot works so well is because the exit dumps you right on to the Freeways nearby. Now, I must preface this by saying I get to games at least an hour early, so I can avoid the traffic and park near an exit, but I do think the major problem is the location of the stadium and the type of roads that take you out. It is definitely not fluid, and I always feel bad for those who live right outside the Academy gates, the headlights must be really annoying at that time of night. A couple of years ago they did offer a shuttle from Union and Chinatown, but the cost of taking the Goldline and taking the shuttle for two people was equal to the cost of parking, and we had to wait 30 minutes at the chinatown station for the train to show up after the game. I know I am being idealistic, but they should offer a complimentary shuttle for those who are willing to take public transit, especially in a place like LA.

Oh well, because of the way things are now, I arrive early, carpool with three or four people to split the cost of parking, and always park near an exit. But it helps that I live in Pasadena and have one of the easiest commutes to the stadium.

2007-04-10 14:25:27
164.   FirstMohican
Izturis had 3 errors today. Wow.
2007-04-10 14:26:05
165.   ToyCannon
117
Thanks for the link.
2007-04-10 14:27:08
166.   Bluebleeder87
cool, both on my questions got answered.
2007-04-10 14:29:13
167.   BlueCrew Bruin
117 I humbly request an audience with the Irony Committee.

This quote struck me as ironic given the article's subject matter:
"Carol Dweck is a flat-out genius."

Thank you for your consideration.

2007-04-10 14:29:36
168.   Benaiah
162 - I don't know about excellent, I think he will be much worse this year than last year. Even coming from the AL to the NL and from a hitters park in Arlington to a pitchers paradise in San Diego, his ERA was way out of line. He walks too many people and gives up too many home runs for it to be that low.
2007-04-10 14:31:02
169.   Benaiah
167 - "Carol Dweek worked very hard on her research" doesn't have the same pizazz.
2007-04-10 14:32:24
170.   ToyCannon
158
Also thanks for that info. Always wanted to make that hike and this will give me the push to get it down.
My wife thinks I'm so connected and has no clue I get all my usefull info from a bunch of crochety Dodger diehards.
2007-04-10 14:34:52
171.   ToyCannon
Bluebleeder if you want a ticket to tonights game send me an email.
2007-04-10 14:36:11
172.   bhsportsguy
170 How was Easter at the house that Gene built?
2007-04-10 14:36:36
173.   Daniel Zappala
Marty, thanks for telling me about this. From Wikipedia:

n 1922 Henry Ford visited the Mount Lowe Railway and returned with a Hollywood filming crew who made a silent film documentary of the trip with the camera mounted on the various cars, including the Great Incline. 618 feet of this historic film is available at the Library of Congress.

I need to see if I can get a copy of that film. Wish the Library of Congress would make its own YouTube for stuff like this.

2007-04-10 14:38:12
174.   still bevens
168 But his road ERA was far better than his ERA in Petco. This is a good deal for SD. Even if hes slightly better than league average he's still going to be making near-Tomko money, which in 4 years is going to be in line with salaries, if not below market for a free agent or something like that.
2007-04-10 14:38:27
175.   D4P
That person, jbc13, had a duke.edu address. Isn't D4P at Duke?

That's not me, but I know who it is...

2007-04-10 14:42:48
176.   Benaiah
174 - I completely agree, I just don't think he is an ace like he was last year. He had a .237 BABIP. If that is something normal then he is going to post an ERA like he did the years before (mid-4).
2007-04-10 14:43:52
177.   Benaiah
175 - You would, wouldn't you?
2007-04-10 14:46:59
178.   scareduck
This is what is so damned irritating about the Dodgers (and sorry, Josh, but you're part of the problem here): I just came back from three straight sold out games, including the home opener, at Angel Stadium, and not one time did I have a hard time getting out of the park and home. Moreover, when things don't go well at the park, my experience is that everyone FROM THE OWNER ON DOWN understands that it's their responsibility to fix it or find someone who can.* "Give it a chance to work?" Please, Josh. It's clear that whoever was in charge didn't have the slightest of clues, and hasn't been trying very hard to fix whatever problems there are since the Freeway Series. Not only was this not a one-time event, as Rawitch would like to imply, but it's been seen before.

*Offer void when dealing with the mentally disabled Aramark employees behind the food service counters, whom they are, I believe, contractually required to hire.

2007-04-10 14:47:43
179.   ToyCannon
172
Great, it is so kid friendly compared to DS.
Was bummed that Vlady took that day to stop his torrid hitting.

Are you going tonight? I plan to be there extra early.

2007-04-10 14:53:44
180.   D4P
177
But of course
2007-04-10 14:55:24
181.   Mr Customer
122 - Yeah, I'm afraid so. IMHO There are a lot of other stadia with worse inside-the-gate parking circulation and fewer exiting lanes. It seems like the big bottlenecks are at the freeways not the exit lanes themselves. If you put enough beer in me, I could carry on about this stuff for days. It's my personal windmill at which to tilt.
2007-04-10 14:56:14
182.   Benaiah
180 - By the way, I am going to be in the triangle this weekend. I am coming back to visit some friends.
2007-04-10 14:58:41
183.   bhsportsguy
179 Nope, no tickets for next 4 games, going on Sunday though.
2007-04-10 15:01:34
184.   Bluebleeder87
171

Will do, Thanks.

2007-04-10 15:02:00
185.   D4P
182
Are you planning to stop by Grasshopper?
2007-04-10 15:02:59
186.   Benaiah
185 - Probably. My buddy is the bartender at Vin Rouge, so I will definitely swing by, and I can't imagine going to Vin without stopping by Grasshopper.
2007-04-10 15:03:42
187.   Benaiah
185 - Also, I still know most of the staff. Though the one I am coolest with works lunch and I doubt I will make it there on Friday morning.
2007-04-10 15:05:04
188.   bhsportsguy
178 Isn't a little like comparing apples to oranges (at least on the parking side, not customer service), Anaheim Stadium has a lot built for more people than the stadium which was reconfigured to hold less than people than when it was built. My recollection is that people go in and out through one exit which dumps out into a main road where you can turn right or go straight.

Also there was probably anywhere from 2500-3000 less cars the games were played during off-peak travel hours.

But on the customer servicv side, I cannot argue with you and I don't think that we should have to pay with our money or time with any patented let's give them time to figure this out talk.

But I do think have 10,000 less people does account for something when getting out a lot.

2007-04-10 15:05:53
189.   D4P
Are you busy Saturday night? I could probably talk my wife into having dinner at Grasshopper...
2007-04-10 15:06:16
190.   ToyCannon
183
Let me know if you want my Friday's game(2 tickets). You know my email. I'm going to the Clippers instead.
2007-04-10 15:16:01
191.   Daniel Zappala
Is Grasshopper where all the minion meetings are held?
2007-04-10 15:17:36
192.   underdog
Btw, regarding Josh's restaurant critic analogy - it was a little clumsy but I think what he meant was a restaurant critic doesn't go to a restaurant right after it opens. Or at the least, they come back again to more fairly judge it. I have a friend who was a long time newspaper food critic and he always came back a second time if a place was new, and tried not to come right after it opened. You can't fairly judge a restaurant the week it opens without at least coming back to see if they've improved whatever needed improving. Then again, a restaurant is not a parking lot and that situation needs some major rethinking, it seems to me.
2007-04-10 15:20:16
193.   Bob Timmermann
Dodger Stadium doesn't have a dedicated carpool exit from the freeway as Anaheim does.

The Honda Center had some atrocious parking. A friend and I arrived well before the start of a Ducks game and we literally had to park in another city and walk.

2007-04-10 15:22:44
194.   scareduck
192, 193 - good points.
2007-04-10 15:25:26
195.   Bob Timmermann
193
I should point out that the Honda Center is very close to the city limits of Anaheim.

However, the walk from the lot where I parked to the Honda Center didn't have a sidewalk in parts.

2007-04-10 15:27:02
196.   ToyCannon
You always seem to be going to games that don't have sidewalks.
2007-04-10 15:29:32
197.   underdog
There are a frightening number of towns in Southern Cal that are lacking sidewalks.
2007-04-10 15:31:04
198.   Bob Timmermann
196
The parts around Staples Center that don't have sidewalks are because of construction.

Katella Avenue doesn't have sidewalks in part because there is little reason anyone would be walking along it.

Unless you were headed to a Ducks game.

2007-04-10 15:32:21
199.   Bob Timmermann
The story of my life:
http://tinyurl.com/22sv6v
2007-04-10 15:40:51
200.   GoBears
Seems to me that any mass transportation solution would have to involve buses, and not trains. Trains (light rail, subways, whatever) cost so much more, and are so much less flexible. Buses are everywhere, and can be easily redirected to match demand.

Train networks only really help if one of two things is true: either they're comprehensive (e.g., Tokyo, where you're never more than a half mile from a train station) or else everyone is traveling the same route.

So if one were to take a train to DS, one would still have to drive to the point of origin, which would still create traffic problems, and require huge parking lots.

With buses, fans could start anywhere and filter through a fixed (but potentially large) number of transfer points for the final leg to the stadium.

Really, the only sticking points would be those dedicated paths into the stadium that Bob mentioned first, and the availability of enough buses for the job. I recommend school buses, which are typically idle after 3 or 4pm.

That, and don't ever schedule games that will end during rush hour. Starting during rush hour isn't as bad, because people stagger their arrivals. But most fans try to leave simultaneously, and dumping them from the DS parking lot onto the freeway parking lots is an exercise in futility.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-04-10 15:41:06
201.   D4P
Is Grasshopper where all the minion meetings are held?

(Shhh, don't tell anyone. I don't want Andrew spying on us)

2007-04-10 15:56:56
202.   Izzy
Forgive me if I missed another post, but I thought McCourt was an expert on parking long before he got here. Ah well. That's what engineers are for. I msyelf figured a fast way in and out many years ago. I wonder if it will still work?
2007-04-10 15:58:09
203.   Benaiah
189 - Not really sure, but I think I am. Sorry for the long delay, just got off work. I don't have any plans but I am also staying in Chapel Hill, so I don't know if I have any transportation either.

email me: joebenaiah@hotmail.com and we can work out the details. I think I can meet you for a drink at the very least.

2007-04-10 15:58:20
204.   Bob Timmermann
I think Frank McCourt is an expert on buying parking lots and selling them.
2007-04-10 15:58:44
205.   Jon Weisman
202 - The problems we are discussing are mostly traffic problems, not parking problems. The fact that they are traffic problems inside a giant parking lot doesn't change that.
2007-04-10 16:01:55
206.   Benaiah
Though, I don't know if you drink, and if you are eating dinner and I am having a drink, that is probably the same thing.
2007-04-10 16:02:50
207.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-04-10 16:04:38
208.   Benaiah
Kemp to the DL, Tsao to the big leagues, according to ITD. And Josh makes a sly remark about restaurant reviews.
2007-04-10 17:13:00
209.   s choir
155, 159, 192 re the restaurant critic analogy, FYI:

Critics writing for well-regarded papers will usually visit a new restaurant three times before writing a review. They wouldn't base it on one visit, especially on a special occasion (such as the restaurant's opening). However, if the restaurant has already been reviewed and the critic is back just to write an updated review, he or she may just visit once.

That said, it's probably unfair to write off the parking solution after opening day. Opening day is probably the only weekday game that gets sold out for the entire year. The rest of the sold out games will not have to deal with rush hour traffic at the exact time the game lets out. So hopefully for the rest of the season the new system will work.

On the other hand, looking at how the new system was designed, I have a feeling it will cause more problems than it solves. So I remain open-minded yet pessimistic.

2007-04-10 18:02:55
210.   Tommy Naccarato
153
While that was the premise of most every Dodger fan going out there--thinking you knew where the exits are, then the new parking system wouldn't be so bad.

Sweet dreams!

When you enter at any of the gates, you are directed immediately to where you are going to park. It's literally line the attendants up like cones, and they flag you to the point of where they want you to park. They will not let you break rank either. You have to park where they tell you to. So getting to a close exit is pretty slim. When you get back to the car, it's the same place you entered and it supports one car max--single file. until you can make the mad break--like everyone else.

2007-04-10 19:04:31
211.   Robert Fiore
It's become apparent that the agenda of the McCourts has been to complete the transformation of Dodger Stadium from a popularly priced venue to a premium priced venue. Fox started the process, but they tried to steer a middle course, preserving some of the popular price aspects. The McCourts are going whole hog, with each increment of the transition characterized as an improvement, a renovation or a restoration. The 50% increase in parking fees is characterized as traffic improvement. In its debut it worked about as well as the premium seats they installed a couple of years ago, though of course it's easier to revise a parking plan on the fly than it is to change the configuration of the seats. Really, though, the purpose of the project is served when you hand the parking attendant $15.
2007-04-11 01:32:54
212.   Tommy Naccarato
Good point.

Yesterday I was shocked at the price of one regular Dodger Dog. No one mentioned that it went up like $.50!

It's now $4.75.

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