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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Magic Saito (and Early Morning Game Chat)
2007-05-09 21:50
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

As the Dodgers finished off their victory tonight in Florida with what in a parallel universe could have been their infield in the 19th inning of a game at Colorado last September - Ramon Martinez at first base, Wilson Valdez at second, Rafael Furcal at short and Andy LaRoche at third - I wondered several things during the celebration.

  • Is it to soon to wonder whether we'll remember Takashi Saito's Dodger career with the same joy - if perhaps not the same electricity - as Eric Gagne's?

    Saito lowered his Dodger and MLB career ERA to 2.00, with 126 strikeouts in 94 1/3 innings. This season, he has struck out 19 and walked one.

    And then there's that smile. Honestly, has the Dodger franchise ever enjoyed a better smile than Saito's? It really might be the greatest grin in this town since Magic's. With those stats, sliders and smiles, I look forward to seeing Saito more than any Dodger pitcher since Gagne.

  • Can the Dodgers finally consider themselves past needing three backup infielders? Wilson Betemit is 4 for 12 this month with a double, two homers and a walk (though seven of his eight outs have been by strikeout), reminding those who needed reminding that he's not hopeless as a hitter. In fact, the belittled Betemit boasts an on-base percentage and slugging percentage for the season higher than Juan Pierre's, leaving Pierre's 75-percent basestealing and dubious center-field play as his only advantage.

    Not that Betemit is competing with Pierre for playing time, of course, but is there anyone who thinks that the Dodgers need both Ramon Martinez and Wilson Valdez on the roster, especially with Tony Abreu and Chin-Lung Hu presenting themselves as viable callups should a starting infielder get hurt?

    Betemit's on-base percentage is even higher than Nomar Garciaparra's, and his slugging percentage trails Garciaparra by a surprisingly slim .037. Garciaparra was rested for performance reasons today, according to Grady Little's comments in Ken Gurnick's MLB.com piece today, showing that the Dodgers have noticed Garciaparra's declining production.

  • Or, should we still consider that Andy LaRoche might not be here to stay? LaRoche has had a debut that's only a home run shy of dreamy - 4 for 10 with a double, five walks (three unintentional), a non-crippling hit by pitch, a sacrifice fly and a stolen base. It's been quite a shot in the arm, if not quite as dramatic as Matt Kemp's arrival a year ago.

    So how do we know whether LaRoche has pulled a Russell Martin or an Andre Ethier, or whether he will follow Kemp back into the minors for more seasoning? I guess we don't know, yet: The pessimistic side of me thinks that once LaRoche is challenged more, he will suffer in the short term, but the optimistic side of me is finding itself hard to be tamed.

  • And how long will we have to wait to even see Kemp again? I miss the Bison.

  • LaRoche's callup (and the refusal to move Garciaparra to third base) blocked James Loney's immediate chances for a promotion, but does his success actually help Loney's cause with the possibility that AAA performance ain't everything after all. Loney is having a decidedly mediocre 2007 playing in Las Vegas, but .. um, maybe it's a pitcher's park.

  • Do Dodger starting pitchers have to die by the seventh inning - even if they've been pitching no-hit ball for most of the game like Brett Tomko - the way the citizens of Logan's Run had to die by the time they turned 30?

    I'm no fan of 12-man pitching staffs, but if that's what it takes to allow Little to be proactive in his middle-inning pitching changes, let's do it.

  • By the way, when exactly will the Dodgers start to miss Jason Schmidt? The day might not be far off, but it's hard to say they have so far.

    * * *

    Thursday's 9:05 a.m. game:

    Gameday

    Retro Gameday

  • Comments (480)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2007-05-09 22:05:02
    1.   natepurcell
    to continue from the last thread, ive tried to talk about dodger prospects on date. It doesnt turn out well because

    1. the girl usually doesnt care

    2. dodger prospects are usually more interesting then whatever the said girl has to talk about

    so the date either ends and i never call her again or the date ends with a happy ending and i still never call her again.

    2007-05-09 22:05:36
    2.   Bob Timmermann
    I thought all the Dodger pitchers went to Carousel in the seventh inning.
    2007-05-09 22:06:19
    3.   Eric Enders
    Great Baseball Smiles I Have Known

    Takashi Saito
    Dontrelle Willis
    Ken Griffey Jr.
    Ramon Martinez Sr.
    Roy Campanella
    The sly Fernando grin

    2007-05-09 22:07:02
    4.   StolenMonkey86
    2 - What if we sent them to Ferris Wheel instead?
    2007-05-09 22:07:41
    5.   D4P
    ESPN is telling me that Beimel is on the DL. Is that a mistake, or did I miss something?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/roster?team=lad

    2007-05-09 22:08:18
    6.   D4P
    so the date either ends and i never call her again or the date ends with a happy ending and i still never call her again

    FOLKS!

    2007-05-09 22:09:44
    7.   Jon Weisman
    2 - They may walk the bases loaded, but they'll never walk alone.
    2007-05-09 22:10:07
    8.   Eric Enders
    5 Perhaps a new tattoo is being designed as we speak.
    2007-05-09 22:10:53
    9.   Jon Weisman
    5 - Can't find anything to back that up right now.
    2007-05-09 22:12:35
    10.   Eric Enders
    5 Isn't this the same website that informed us last month that Yhency Brazoban had entered the game in relief?
    2007-05-09 22:14:25
    11.   Eric Enders
    By the way, does anyone follow Grittle's logic that adding a 12th pitcher would necessitate moving Billingsley to the rotation? I'm not complaining, I'm just not seeing how 1+1=2.
    2007-05-09 22:16:01
    12.   Jon Weisman
    11 - No, I don't see how the two are related. That was confusing.
    2007-05-09 22:16:39
    13.   natepurcell
    With two strong potential shortstops in Abreu and Hu, should the dodgers consider extending furcal beyond 2008? I realize this conversation might be premature but it seems to be more cost efficient to plug abreu and hu at SS and use the 12 mil leftover to address other needs.
    2007-05-09 22:17:48
    14.   natepurcell
    11

    im still trying to figure that one out to go along with who he would be replacing in the rotation. I think that 10 pitch, 3 strikeout inning yesterday really opened up some eyes.

    2007-05-09 22:19:37
    15.   Hallux Valgus
    Perhaps the last bullet point answers the preceding bullet point. Jason Schmidt in the rotation would (theoretically) allow for Tomko to go into long relief and pick up the middle innings. Of course, I thought that was what Billinglsey was for, too, so what do I know.
    2007-05-09 22:21:15
    16.   Andrew Shimmin
    13- Assuming Pierre doesn't get moved, what needs will there be?
    2007-05-09 22:22:26
    17.   natepurcell
    Tony Jackson providing some of his insight on the Pierre situation...

    As for the other thing, my guess is you're eventually going to see (maybe later this year, maybe next year) JP in left field, Kemp in center and Ethier in right. For now, I say ride Gonzo as long as he is still productive (could be all year), then move him to the bench as a LHH.

    that really doesnt solve the problem now does it Tony!?!?

    2007-05-09 22:22:41
    18.   Andrew Shimmin
    Did Grittle give the Billingsley might go to the rotation quote to more than one source? Maybe he was misunderstood.
    2007-05-09 22:23:40
    19.   natepurcell
    16

    Pitching? I dont know, i havent looked into my crystal ball yet.

    2007-05-09 22:25:16
    20.   Hallux Valgus
    19- my Magic 8 Ball said to "try again later." Stupid waffling 8 Ball.
    2007-05-09 22:26:52
    21.   underdog
    Carousel is a lie! THERE IS NO RENEWAL!

    Sorry, what were we talking about again?

    Oh yeah, the 7th - where Dodger starters go to die. If they haven't died in the 6th, that is.

    Meanwhile, my ABC channel is not coming in on my cable network tonight but the HD ABC channel does come in - audio only (since I don't have an HD TV). So, basically, I'm listening to Lost. Which is pretty sad.

    2007-05-09 22:30:10
    22.   natepurcell
    21

    lost was intense, im still confused.

    2007-05-09 22:31:54
    23.   underdog
    22 Me too, but that's partially because I can't see any of it.
    2007-05-09 22:36:40
    24.   Icaros
    In the book Logan's Run the age of death is 21.
    2007-05-09 22:37:21
    25.   Ranma
    Don't know if ths has been posted previously but Diamond Leung of The Press-Enterprise thinks that there is some upside to having Juan Pierre on the team beyond this season outside of his play:

    Marlins star pitcher Dontrelle Willis will be eligible for free agency for the first time following the 2009 season. Not only does he love Southern California, but also one of his dearest friends happens to be Dodgers center fielder Juan Pierre..."I think he wants me to come to LA, so we'll see," Willis said, smiling.

    http://tinyurl.com/2236fx

    2007-05-09 22:37:57
    26.   natepurcell
    16

    i just looked into my crystal ball and this is what its telling me.

    2009

    C- Russ Martin
    1b- James Loney
    2b- Wilson Betemit
    ss- Tony Abreu
    3b- Andy Laroche
    LF- Adam Dunn
    CF- Andre Ethier
    RF- Matt Kemp

    UIF- Hu

    SP
    Penny
    Billingsley
    Kuo
    Schmidt
    Elbert

    Steve comes out from his Juan Pierre signed with the Dodgers coma, kidnaps Pierre and places him on Lost island.

    2007-05-09 22:39:23
    27.   natepurcell
    In all seriousness though, where is Steve?
    2007-05-09 22:41:06
    28.   Samuel
    10

    It was MLB's Gameday that goofed by saying Brazoban came into the game. I think they corrected the mistake within 20 minutes, but I posted something about it on Jackie Robinson Day.

    2007-05-09 22:41:51
    29.   Hallux Valgus
    It's too bad my buddy doesn't still write for Lost. I'd have him drop JP in as a red herring.
    2007-05-09 22:42:06
    30.   Icaros
    27

    Turns out Steve was just Steve's wife playing her own husband, Steve, on the internet.

    2007-05-09 22:43:39
    31.   natepurcell
    30

    trippy.

    2007-05-09 22:44:22
    32.   Icaros
    31

    Based on true events.

    2007-05-09 22:46:03
    33.   dsfan
    I see the logic that Martinez/Valdez is redundant. I would be against promoting Hu to the majors, though, if that's what was being suggested.
    Hu's finally having a nice run with the stick. Let him ride it out. I'd be more inclined to call up later this season. I acknowledge Hu could contribute as a reserve, perhaps similarly to Valdez. I expect that he would at least make contact and do a nice job defensively. Presumably, he is a decent bunter. But I just think there's more to gain from keeping him in Double-A. Sometimes in these instances a phantom injury is the best solution. Sticking Valdez on the DL and then minor-league rehab might be a decent move. I figure Nomar or Kent are about due to get dinged. I'd be reluctant jettison anyone.
    2007-05-09 22:50:42
    34.   Andrew Shimmin
    I don't read anyone as wanting Hu up now, just as believing him to be a better double-emergency replacement SS than Valdez.
    2007-05-09 22:51:12
    35.   dsfan
    This isn't another jab at Pierre. It's a way for the Dodger to consider a potential solution. Dave Roberts is in decline, probably needs elbow surgery and the Giants are in go-for-it mode, the same Giants who reportedly offered Pierre $36 million last winter.

    Probably it would be too radical for Ned to broach a Pierre trade to the Giants, but I would be heartening to know that the Dodgers would at least consider it. I could see it taking on some traction this offseason. I doubt the Giants are expecting Roberts to suddenly become the answer in CF. He's breaking down. Pierre is 5-6 years younger. And he is durable. And he would be owed $36 million after this season.

    2007-05-09 22:53:30
    36.   Andrew Shimmin
    Is Miguel Cabrera a FA after 2008? If Kent and Furcal are off the books, and there really is a spot open in LF, I want him, no matter what it costs. I don't trust Dunn to age well.
    2007-05-09 22:55:26
    37.   FirstMohican
    Is Ben's dad also Uncle Rico?
    2007-05-09 22:55:48
    38.   dsfan
    Pierre's desire to bring Willis to the Dodgers should create chills, not thrills. Willis is pretty good, but he's also pretty erratic and you can be certain that the Marlins would want Matt Kemp for him. The Dodgers would be better off keeping Kemp and seeing what Elbert can do in 2008 and maybe Kershaw in late 2009.
    2007-05-09 22:57:15
    39.   Icaros
    36

    Yeah, I want Cabrera too. Not Greg Brock want him, but want him. But I don't want him at third base.

    2007-05-09 22:59:03
    40.   underdog
    Sorry if this was repeated here earlier, but just saw that Dave Roberts might need arthro surgery, be out about 4 weeks.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2865752

    Not that he was contributing all that much to the Giants, but they're better off with him manning CF than Linden.

    2007-05-09 23:00:32
    41.   underdog
    35 Damn, I was slow to post there.

    Anyway, I really don't see a trade with the Giants happening anytime soon. (It's a nice scenario, though.)

    2007-05-09 23:01:33
    42.   Andrew Shimmin
    MLB4U has him going FA after 2009. So. Nuts to that. I thought he'd been a super two.
    2007-05-09 23:04:30
    43.   dsfan
    40

    I agree and disagree. I think Roberts is a better defender than Linden, although by some accounts, Linden has looked pretty good in CF. But I also think they need find out once and for all if there's any hope for Linden. He's not much of a prospect, but he's one of the few they have.

    I also think wouldn't be stunned to see Winn end up there, and maybe they give Fred Lewis or even Timpner a bit of a look.

    2007-05-09 23:05:30
    44.   trainwreck
    I got a girl into Dodger prospects. She was also an A's fan, but now shes loves the Dodgers too. Hehehe.
    2007-05-09 23:10:07
    45.   Jon Weisman
    New chat thread at Screen Jam - featuring but not limited to Lost chat.
    2007-05-09 23:11:05
    46.   underdog
    43 Oh I don't think Linden is bad as a corner outfielder, and maybe he does just need more time in CF (like Matt Kemp) but he's looked pretty bad out there. A Giants fan I know doesn't like Linden. But yeah, a better solution is Winn in CF and Linden at RF and calling up someone. Their OFs in the minors are pretty weak imho.

    44 Woo hoo!

    My g/f doesn't even like sports; it's just a victory getting her to the point where she asks how the Dodgers are doing, just because she knows I'll get depressed if they stink. Even if it makes no sense to her.

    2007-05-09 23:12:05
    47.   underdog
    45 I better skip that, until after I can watch the episode all the way through online - this time with picture, too.
    2007-05-09 23:15:10
    48.   trainwreck
    46
    Yeah, I know what you mean. It means so much to guys to find a girl into sports.

    That girl now loves Martin, Ethier, Bills, and Kemp and now I am getting her to love LaRoche.

    2007-05-09 23:15:56
    49.   Hallux Valgus
    I got my gf to like the Broncos. Now she just talks about how the Cardinals uniforms are "cuter" than the Broncos. It was a hollow victory at best.
    2007-05-09 23:16:08
    50.   Andrew Shimmin
    I saw Linden play CF at the game I went to. He neglected to pick up a grounder, letting a runner take an extra base. The only other ball I remember being hit to him was an easy fly that he caught. He didn't look good, but it was just one game.

    The trouble with trading with the Giants is that they don't have any back breaking contracts we could return the favor by picking up. The two worst could be Morris and Benitez, each of whom have, lamentably, played well so far this year.

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2007-05-09 23:21:37
    51.   trainwreck
    49
    Haha, yeah she always talks about how cute the guys are more than their on base percentage!!!

    Awww, a Broncos fan huh. Well my Raiders will...

    uhhhh, hopefully beat you once this year!

    2007-05-09 23:28:26
    52.   Hallux Valgus
    to be honest, I welcome the Raiders getting competitive again. It's lot more fun to hate a team when you don't feel sorry for them. It's a lot like the Dodgers/ Giants rivalry. Earlier this year, my Giants fan buddy's biggest smack talk was "I hope Jason Schmidt gets hurt."

    Of course, considering how that turned out...

    2007-05-09 23:29:57
    53.   trainwreck
    52
    Well, for the first time in years, I am optimistic about the Raiders. All I want is improvement and really our defense is good enough that all we need is is a few touchdowns a game.
    2007-05-09 23:35:30
    54.   Eric Enders
    So is it time to sign Russ Martin to a McCann-Mauer contract yet? The longer we wait the more expensive it's going to get.
    2007-05-09 23:37:04
    55.   Hallux Valgus
    53- agreed. I'm kind of amazed Ryan didn't get the head coaching job. Of course, protection for JaMarcus the Hut is a whole other issue.

    54- I assume John Donovan's SI article was mentioned here?

    2007-05-09 23:42:10
    56.   trainwreck
    54
    No point in doing it until he reaches his arbitration years. He is earning the minimum now and we should take advantage of that.

    55
    I have been surprised with how much I like Kiffin. I wanted to draft Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson personally, but I actually have confidence in what Lane is doing. Everything has been positive so far. He has hired a lot of ex-UCLA coaches.

    2007-05-09 23:48:41
    57.   dsfan
    50

    Call me unrealistic, but I was hoping that the Giants would be flexible in any Pierre trade talks. After all, they did offer him $36 million last offseason. Maybe they take on the bulk of the contract, the Dodgers eat some of the money, get a Munter and a Copeland and everybody's happy. I know, I know, not likely.

    I actually would like to see Fred Lewis get a bit of a look with the Giants. He's not a good prospect or even a pretty good one. He is a pretty good defender in CF, knows how to take a walk. A good athlete. I'm pretty sure he came to baseball late relative to most pros. Would like to see him figure it out.

    2007-05-09 23:50:33
    58.   Hallux Valgus
    56- I disagree, actually. LA has the resources to buy out his years, and I think he's the one guy we need to commit too.

    I've heard very bad things about Kiffin. Starting with the fact that he sat in on Sarkisian's interview, so he already knew how to answer the questions. I've got a friend who follows USC who said good riddance to Kiffin, because he was hated on campus. He thinks that Kiffin will be the worst coach in the league. I counter with "Art Shell" only I say it in a sort of sing songy voice. So we both had good arguments.

    2007-05-09 23:56:05
    59.   trainwreck
    58
    I do think we need to commit to Martin, but we should when its economically smart. Believe me, I want to extend Martin, just when it is the right time, so we can save money.

    I have heard that stuff about Kiffin, but as you said, we had Art Shell and Art Shell was stuck 30 years in the past, so it can only get better. Kiffin as a person, has been very impressive. Art Shell gave me no confidence whatsoever when he spoke, but Kiffin gives me hope. I like how he has run practices and I like how he has treated the personnel. Getting rid of Moss showed me he is serious about rebuilding this team.

    2007-05-09 23:58:00
    60.   Bob Timmermann
    Lane Kiffin took one of the best offenses in the NCAA and somehow it managed to score just nine points against UCLA.

    NINE!

    UCLA's defense was good, but it wasn't "hold one of the top five teams in the country to nine points" good.

    2007-05-10 00:02:06
    61.   trainwreck
    60
    LOL. As a Bruin and Raider fan, I am aware of this, but we were in such a bad place before Kiffin, that he has been a real positive for us.

    Andrew Walter said he ran a more complicated offense in high school, that is how bad we were last year.

    2007-05-10 00:02:06
    62.   trainwreck
    60
    LOL. As a Bruin and Raider fan, I am aware of this, but we were in such a bad place before Kiffin, that he has been a real positive for us.

    Andrew Walter said he ran a more complicated offense in high school, that is how bad we were last year.

    2007-05-10 00:04:36
    63.   Hallux Valgus
    I guess I look at a $120 million dollar payroll and see no one who is a threat for:
    Cy Young
    Silver Slugger
    Gold Glove

    and I stop caring about the $25 million it would take to secure Martin and both his tangibles and intangibles for 5 years.

    and Andrew Walter is from Colorado. Woo hoo! complicated Grand Junction offenses!

    2007-05-10 00:09:27
    64.   trainwreck
    63
    We are not the smartest team when it comes to spending money, but that does not mean we should compound the problem by spending when we do not have to. Wait a little while and extend Martin, Kemp, LaRoche, Bills, etc.
    2007-05-10 00:16:21
    65.   NPB
    As much as I'm frustrated by our management's seeming inability to put the best 25 players on the bench, I'd much rather have our problems right now than the Giants'.

    LaRoche looks like the real deal.

    2007-05-10 00:22:12
    66.   Hallux Valgus
    64- and I guess I just don't see it as "compounding the problem."

    Of course, I fully admit to a bias based on how much I spend to go to Dodger games vs. how much I spent on Rockies season tickets (Juan Pierre era there, too, by the by).

    65- abso-freakin-lutely

    2007-05-10 00:25:55
    67.   Brian Y
    My how I wish we could just trade for Miggy Cabrera. I would give them LaRoche, Elbert, AND James Loney tomorrow for that guy. That's a lot but that's how much my man love goes for him lol.
    2007-05-10 00:28:44
    68.   Robert Fiore
    How's about this for a theory: Saito is to Gagne as Steve Young was to Joe Montana. Which is to say however good he is, it will always be a mortal versus a legend. And while Young is a Hall of Famer in his own right, Saito has only one good season and the start of another so far. And I don't think anyone is expecting Saito to win a Cy Young Award.
    2007-05-10 00:29:06
    69.   trainwreck
    67
    Wow, you sound like Brock. I like Cabrera a lot too, but there is no reason to give up that many good players for him. Yes, I think those players will be that good and it helps the future of our team to have those three more than it does just having Cabrera.

    He is obviously an elite player, but one player does not make a team good.

    2007-05-10 00:39:20
    70.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
    I once worked with a sports editor who said the Raiders' offense was "a commitment to yesterday."
    That was in 1995.
    2007-05-10 00:41:43
    71.   GoBears
    68. The best part of that analogy, of course, is that Young was the better quarterback. No one in SF would agree with that (rings is rings, baby!) but Young was just as smart, had a much stronger arm, was the most accurate passer ever (I think that's still true) and could run like a halfback. As a Southern Californian exiled in the Bay Area during the SF heyday, AND as a lifelong Packers fan, I hated everything about the Niners, but Steve Young was the best I ever saw. That includes everyone back to Bart Starr - I can't comment on Sid Luckmann.

    I'm not saying Montana wasn't a Hall of Famer. Just that Young was better. And I'm tickled with Saito too.

    2007-05-10 01:04:13
    72.   Dodgers49
    12th pitcher: Little said he thinks adding another pitcher is "inevitable" and would probably happen before next Thursday's day off. The most likely candidate currently on the 40-man roster seems to be Hong-Chih Kuo, who has 15 strikeouts in 8 1/3 innings, but also has allowed four walks and two homers.

    Little also indicated that going to 12 pitchers might lead to the return to the starting rotation of Chad Billingsley, who struck out each of the three batters he faced Tuesday night.

    "It takes a while for a starting pitcher to get accustomed to the lifestyle of the bullpen, not that we want him to get real comfortable down there," Little said. "I don't think that's where he ends up.

    "We could stretch him out if we got 12 pitchers," Little said. "He could probably go four innings if it was tomorrow. This guy's been a starter his whole career."

    http://tinyurl.com/3c5rgt

    2007-05-10 01:07:01
    73.   trainwreck
    72
    That actually makes me happy and optimistic. Maybe we see Hendrickson and/or Tomko get traded and see the return of Bills and Kuo to the rotation.
    2007-05-10 01:08:05
    74.   GoBears
    72. I hadn't seen the last part of the Little quote. That's an interesting twist. It suggests that Little sees Billingsley's current bullpen slot as not a result of too many starters, but of too few relievers - that until he gets 12, he NEEDS Billingsley in the pen.

    Kinda weird, though with Hendrickson pitching out of his mind, I guess it's worked out pretty well so far.

    2007-05-10 05:03:20
    75.   Brian Y
    69
    Well the way I see it is that Florida won't trade him until the 2009 season unless they got a ton in return for him and with our team set-up to win this year and 1B is an easy position to fill in FA as well as us having a solid depth in SP prospects in Kershaw, Miller, Kuo, Josh Wall, etc I could easily do that deal for Cabrera which would solidify 3B with POWER for years to come and if anything enhance our chances for a WS ring this year and for future years as he would be our franchise player along with Martin, Kemp, Abreu, and Ethier for years to come so our payroll stays in check.

    I can't imagine Florida not having an interest in Elbert, Loney, and LaRoche as a centerpierce to any deal involving Cabrera for at least 2 years.

    By keeping Nomar in place of Loney we basically have no place to play him this year and he's 23. If anything this trade would solve many problems for both teams as payroll is a concern for them and we have so many prospects and too many aging vets on our team to have a way to play them. Hell throw in Brady Clark to make them have a decent CF and it's still fine as long as we have Kemp to spell our OF's some rest.

    And in 2008 even if Kent retires we have Abreu and/or Betemit to step in.

    SS Furcal
    CF Pierre
    C Martin
    3B Cabrera
    1B Nomar
    LF Kemp
    RF Ethier
    2B Betemit/Abreu Platoon

    2007-05-10 05:40:46
    76.   Andrew Shimmin
    T.J. Simers has skin cancer.

    http://tinyurl.com/3b47w3

    2007-05-10 06:06:44
    77.   Doug N
    is it possible that la roche will win the job just by walking? i mean, he's got to be getting on base more often than betemit and without having to hit the ball.
    2007-05-10 06:22:46
    78.   Vishal
    [71] as a packer fan, i too hated the niners. it's weird, SF is my favorite city in the world, but i detest their sports teams.
    2007-05-10 06:23:46
    79.   Doctor
    So.... Dave Roberts MAY need surgery. My understanding is we barley "beat out" the Giants in the Pierre chase last off season. Interesting.
    2007-05-10 06:43:20
    80.   Andrew Shimmin
    I think there's very little chance Pierre will be traded. Colletti went out and got him; it was an act of volition. Doesn't it seem likely that anything that would make him not want Pierre anymore would also make Sabean not want him? The Giants are one forty-three year old knee's re-exploding away from accepting their fate. They're probably playing over their heads already, so they'd have to continue that for at least another thirty-six days. And, even that would mean that Sabaen (assuming he sees Kemp as an upgrade) would have to intentionally better the competition in a race he thought he could win.

    I just don't see it happening. Maybe in a couple or three years, Colletti will offload the back end to somebody else. That's as far as I'm willing to get my hopes up.

    2007-05-10 06:56:46
    81.   Bumsrap
    Loney had been impressive for quite a few years now and if it were not for his wrist being injured a couple of years ago he would have hit his way into the lineup in 2005. He is a Jow Mauer type of hitter and the Dodgers are just missing the boat with this guy.

    If the Dodgers bring up Kuo he could be assigned to start the 5th inning in games Billingsley starts until Bills increases his innings. This way the 12 pitcher is a fifth inning starter every 5 games. That might serve Kuo and Bills since they are both starters.

    I smell a trade brewing. And, Kemp is still playing CF and hitting second with the 51s.

    2007-05-10 06:58:43
    82.   Bumsrap
    I believe the Dodgers will trade Pierre and pay for his fifth year and yes, I think the Giants are in the mix for this trade.
    2007-05-10 07:12:42
    83.   Andrew Shimmin
    So, Pierre, plus $9 million, for? And, since I don't think Colletti has ever traded just one player at a time, it seems like it'd be Pierre, plus the cash, plus whichever prospect he's not feeling so sunny about today for ...? They don't need a SP. Who knows what Sabaen thinks of his bullpen, but whatever it is, he probably doesn't want another lefty. They could use a 1B.

    It's possible to lose a trade in which Pierre is sent away. It's not easy, but it is possible.

    2007-05-10 07:20:16
    84.   Benaiah
    83 - I could eventually see a trade with Pierre plus 2-3 million per year left on his contract for the right to not have him on the team. That trade is a couple of years away though. The best hope at this point is that Pierre gets a day or two a week on the bench as a pinch hitter/pinch runner, but I wonder if Little or Ned even think he is struggling?
    2007-05-10 07:24:22
    85.   Andrew Shimmin
    The White Sox need a CF, and may have a philosophy consistent with liking Pierre. But theirs is doing better than Pierre, so far, even if that seemingly can't persist. Is Ryan Sweeney expected to stick at CF?

    The only NL West team whose CF production isn't in the bottom six in MLB OPS is Arizona.

    2007-05-10 07:31:33
    86.   weatherman
    I see no realistic giants-dodgers trade scenario involving Pierre. I cannot even think of a player on the giants that i would want to add to our team.
    2007-05-10 07:33:30
    87.   Vishal
    [86] the only giants i'd want would be cain or lincecum, and there's no way the giants are giving either of them to us, let alone for juan pierre.
    2007-05-10 07:35:18
    88.   Doctor
    I would add Roberts, actually. Nice 4th OF, pinch runner.
    Not that I think any of this happens.....
    2007-05-10 07:37:01
    89.   weatherman
    That said, I am definitely in the pitching + LaRoche for Cabrera camp. He made some great plays last night.
    2007-05-10 07:37:57
    90.   Andrew Shimmin
    I'd give them Pierre, Lowe, Loney, and several freight cars full of cash for Cain. And I'd offer to embezzle as much of the cash as he liked into Sabean's private account.
    2007-05-10 07:38:40
    91.   Vishal
    man, all this really seems rather pointless. i think i'm just done with pierre talk. whatever.
    2007-05-10 07:42:56
    92.   Doctor
    By the way great post up top-
    Saito is definitely one of the best closers in baseball that no one has ever heard of. Heck, he is one of the best closers in baseball period.
    The guy just truely loves to save games, its fun to watch.
    2007-05-10 07:43:43
    93.   Bob Timmermann
    The Dodgers and Giants have traded any player of substance since Jackie Robinson's putative deal in 1957.

    Unless you have a very high opinion of Tom Haller, Ron Hunt, Nate Olive, Candy Maldonado, and Alex Trevino.

    2007-05-10 07:48:12
    94.   Andrew Shimmin
    93- Or a very low opinion of, well, never mind. And let's not permit one of the finest named ball players of all time be dismissed as not having been "of substance." He may not be a Hall of Famer, but the world is better for having known Candy Maldonado. The spirit of Candy Maldonado embiggens us all!
    2007-05-10 07:49:47
    95.   Doctor
    Pierre, CF

    Martin, C

    Nomar, 1B

    Gonzo, LF

    Ethier, RF

    Betemit, 3B

    Valdez, SS

    Martinez, 2B

    Lowe, P

    MLB.com

    2007-05-10 07:50:01
    96.   Vishal
    i really liked candy maldonado when i was a kid.
    2007-05-10 07:51:45
    97.   old dodger fan
    I thought today would be Lieberthal's Day.
    2007-05-10 07:53:34
    98.   Benaiah
    95 - The lower Valdez's average and OPS sink, the more he gets to play. Hopefully Betemit is on today and he establishes how superfluous the tandem of Lucille II and Valdez are.
    2007-05-10 07:53:59
    99.   old dodger fan
    93 My 1st thought was Juan Marichal but he made a pit stop in Boston on the way. Of course he was no longer a "player of substance" at that point. He was sure fun to hate (in a good Dodger Giant rivalry kind of way) back in the 60's though.
    2007-05-10 07:54:43
    100.   Benaiah
    97 - Normally I would agree, but resting Kent, Furcal and Martin on the same day is like conceding.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2007-05-10 08:00:59
    101.   old dodger fan
    I normally read but don't comment on trade talk but saw the following on the Dallas Morning News-It is a Q&A regarding the Rangers GM-

    From e-mail: My question is one of the IF kind. IF the Rangers can't get it together and get over .500 and into the AL West race, and IF we decide to sell off, who are the likely candidates to leave and where will they go and who do we get back.

    Scott

    Evan Grant: Wow, Scott, you don't want much do you? It would be a total guess right now, but Mark Teixeira certainly would be a guy the Rangers would have to consider trading. I think depending on where Hank Blalock's offense and defense stand, he could be in the mix, too. And every potential free agent on this team, as well.

    As for the return: The Rangers would need to get back pitching and a major league ready first baseman or outfielder. For me, the best deal the Rangers could try to make is with Baltimore for Nick Markakis and a pitcher. Easier said than done for many reasons, including that Baltimore may not be a contender and the Orioles are difficult to deal with.

    2007-05-10 08:05:50
    102.   Benaiah
    By the way, we are fast approaching the 100 year anniversary of the birth of one Marion Morrison, the man who would command the silver screen like a colossus as John Wayne. May 26, 1907 he was born in Winterset, Iowa. My favorite of his movies is either Red River or The Quiet Man, what a man.
    2007-05-10 08:06:15
    103.   Jon Weisman
    This will be the game chat thread.
    2007-05-10 08:08:07
    104.   Andrew Shimmin
    Baltimore would have to be double plus crazy to rent Teixeira for this year. To beat out the D'rays for fourth place? Even that might be a stretch, especially depending on the pitcher.
    2007-05-10 08:11:51
    105.   regfairfield
    104 It would be for next year too, though Teixeira would cash in big time in arbitration. I could see something like Loney and Lowe for Teixeira, and I wouldn't hate that.
    2007-05-10 08:12:42
    106.   old dodger fan
    104 It is probably nothing more than the musings we have here where we send Pierre, Hendy and Tomko off for a HOF type slugger. But it was fun to read.
    2007-05-10 08:18:31
    107.   Andrew Shimmin
    Why aren't any of the good players as close to being FA eligible as I wish they were? He is a Boras client, so, there's no chance he isn't going to be a FA, right? And he'd be available right when Nomar's contract ran out. So, maybe losing Loney won't be the end of the world if it happens.
    2007-05-10 08:21:45
    108.   Benaiah
    107 - Andruw Jones springs to mind. Maybe we could trade Pierre to Atlanta for Jones and cash, and then resign Andruw?
    2007-05-10 08:22:05
    109.   Benaiah
    108 - Not likely, but thoughts like this help me sleep at night.
    2007-05-10 08:30:43
    110.   mgd
    I watched on TV Tomko's mini-meltdown after he gave up his first hit. It took all he had just to get out of that inning. I think he needs a visit to Hendrickson's sports-shrink.
    2007-05-10 08:36:32
    111.   old dodger fan
    The Baltimore Sun says that the Orioles are interested in Chan Ho Park or Odalis Perez. Really. This is not a joke (except to Orioles fans).
    2007-05-10 08:36:42
    112.   Doctor
    110

    I love that Grady visited him on the mound after the dinker hit.
    Its like they know....

    2007-05-10 08:36:45
    113.   KBL
    Saito has made my wife enjoy the game of baseball so much more. We both look forward to any time he can come out and close the game. His smile is infectious, and I love the way he and Nomar hug after every win/save.
    2007-05-10 08:40:51
    114.   Terry A
    108 - Assuming free agent compensatory picks haven't gone away or changed drastically for the worse, and assuming they still have talented people handling their player development and drafting department, the Braves would be much better off keeping A. Jones all year and reaping the draft picks when he signs elsewhere.

    And I suspect they know that.

    2007-05-10 08:41:40
    115.   gpellamjr
    112 Yeah, sometimes Dodger management seems to know what's going on with the team.

    I had a great post yesterday in which I broke all the rules (does too much Zoloft count as being intoxicated?), but Tomko gave up the hit right before I was going to hit "submit".

    Martinez and Valdez in the same lineup. Man. I would have liked to see Betemit at 2B with La Roche at 3B, with only one waste of space on the field.

    2007-05-10 08:49:52
    116.   Benaiah
    114 - The Braves are fairly un-SABR and Juan Pierre is the ideal "makeup" player. He is nice, community friendly, well spoken and generally a great teammate. Perhaps some pitching or prospects would have to be involved, but if we could get a contract extension then I wouldn't mind. Plus, if Jones signs with a team that drafts in the first half of the first round then they Braves would only get a sandwich pick for him, that is a big risk (if you think that is unlikely, think about the Cubs and Soriano).
    2007-05-10 08:50:43
    117.   Benaiah
    116 - Actually, the biggest problem is that Jones would never sign an extension because he is a Boras client. Then, I would be happy just to get rid of Pierre. This is pie in the sky talk anyway.
    2007-05-10 08:54:03
    118.   still bevens
    115 Our lineup last night wasn't optimal and we still pulled it off. Granted its nice to have security and all that but I have my hopes up. I think Grady does too. He seems to have faith in sticking backups in the lineup when Lowe is on the mound.
    2007-05-10 09:00:21
    119.   old dodger fan
    It is almost game time.

    Marlin starter Sergio Mitre was born in LA, went to SD City College. Last start was against SD. He went 6 IP; 1 ER.

    2007-05-10 09:00:59
    120.   Jon Weisman
    115 - I understand your thought about the lineup, but Lowe pitching does present a valid reason to go for your best middle infield defense.
    2007-05-10 09:06:53
    121.   Benaiah
    Havoc!
    2007-05-10 09:07:39
    122.   Benaiah
    I hope Martin hits 2nd for Dodgers for the next 50 years or so.
    2007-05-10 09:07:48
    123.   Gen3Blue
    I must admit I was shocked to see our line-up. I must admit after some thought is has its point. But I think it is mainly predicated on certain vets playing better with some rest. I'm not totally comfortable with that.
    2007-05-10 09:07:49
    124.   Bluebleeder87
    Look at Pierre with the nice bunt & the steel, great start.
    2007-05-10 09:08:25
    125.   still bevens
    Wow the nu-gameday stolen base indicator is like a pinball game.
    2007-05-10 09:09:01
    126.   PHilldodger
    Can anyone enlighten me as to why Aaron Boone is playing first base for the Marlins and not Mike Jacobs? Injury?
    2007-05-10 09:09:43
    127.   regfairfield
    126 Yep. His thumb is hurt I believe.
    2007-05-10 09:09:57
    128.   Greg Brock
    Wow, The Player has announced his presence with authority. Bunt and a steal.

    And a day off for me. Woo...Hoo.

    2007-05-10 09:11:18
    129.   underdog
    Yeah, just tuned in, saw Pierre leading off, Martin 2nd, no Furcal, no Kent. Should be an interesting game.
    2007-05-10 09:11:23
    130.   PHilldodger
    127. Thanks. It didn't appear to bother him on that rocket he hit last night off Tomko. Our good fortune.
    2007-05-10 09:12:30
    131.   still bevens
    Theres that vaunted Dodgers warning track power on display.
    2007-05-10 09:13:36
    132.   underdog
    And there's 10,000 schoolkids in the ballpark today, which means, there's at least 10,000 people in the stands for once.
    2007-05-10 09:18:03
    133.   Benaiah
    That is not a good start for Lowe. Let's hope that was an aberration.
    2007-05-10 09:18:23
    134.   still bevens
    Gameday says all those pitches were low in the zone. Maybe out of it, but low in it.
    2007-05-10 09:19:55
    135.   underdog
    The Martinez-Valdez combo should be good defensively, at least. So we have that going for us.
    2007-05-10 09:20:19
    136.   underdog
    133 Apparently it was - sinkers and ground balls after that.
    2007-05-10 09:20:22
    137.   Humma Kavula
    Walk, double play, groundout -- thats acceptable.
    2007-05-10 09:20:41
    138.   Bluebleeder87
    Can anyone enlighten me as to why Aaron Boone is playing first base for the Marlins

    I heard it was an injury issue also but Aaron Boone looks like a natural first baseman wow.

    2007-05-10 09:25:48
    139.   underdog
    I've never heard of Marlon Arias, but whoever he is, he pitched no hitter for Inland Empire last night. (From Tony Jackson.)
    2007-05-10 09:26:12
    140.   still bevens
    Theres that vaunted Dodgers patience on display.
    2007-05-10 09:29:03
    141.   still bevens
    Jerry Reuss reminds me of the cabinet secretary in Idiocracy who ended every sentence with 'brought to you by Carl's Jr.'.
    2007-05-10 09:29:12
    142.   Gen3Blue
    I'm not happy hearing the M's announcer touting how Lowe doesn't give up HRs.
    2007-05-10 09:29:25
    143.   Jon Weisman
    122 - Dodger Thoughts, 2057.

    For crying out loud, will Russell Martin ever move himself out of the No. 2 slot. The guy is 74 years old! Just because he's the manager and has 2,500 career wins doesn't mean he can't be honest with himself.

    2007-05-10 09:29:51
    144.   Jon Weisman
    141 - I have that on TiVo - no spoilers :)
    2007-05-10 09:30:53
    145.   Benaiah
    144 - It is very funny, in a caustic, mad at the world way. It is short too, only something like 80 minutes long.
    2007-05-10 09:31:55
    146.   Humma Kavula
    20 pitches so far for Lowe.
    2007-05-10 09:32:28
    147.   underdog
    144 Spoiler: Almost everyone in that movie is an idiot.

    I laughed many times, even if it's much more uneven than Office Space.

    ----

    Okay, I have dibs on a 1-0 final score in today's game pool.

    2007-05-10 09:32:33
    148.   still bevens
    144 Idiocracy? Fantastic movie. I gave max effort to try to get every single person I know to see the movie in theaters when it was in (the world's most) limited release because Fox was trying to kill it.
    2007-05-10 09:33:24
    149.   underdog
    143 As long as Pierre's not still out there...
    2007-05-10 09:36:50
    150.   s choir
    I was disappointed with Idiocracy, mostly because I compared it with Office Space.
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2007-05-10 09:36:58
    151.   Humma Kavula
    Pierre walks on four pitches. Where was this yesterday?
    2007-05-10 09:37:03
    152.   jasonungar07
    did Pierre just WALK?
    2007-05-10 09:37:05
    153.   Vishal
    hey, he walked on 4 pitches! good for him.
    2007-05-10 09:37:12
    154.   underdog
    Mitre pitched around Pierre, wanted nothing to do with the Lil' Slugger.
    2007-05-10 09:38:54
    155.   Benaiah
    Pierre is having the game of the year. A bunt and a walk, in the same game!
    2007-05-10 09:39:28
    156.   Humma Kavula
    SO far, Pierre is having a good game. Keep it up, Juan! Really, I'm rooting for you! Make me look like a fool -- I can handle it!
    2007-05-10 09:40:15
    157.   Hallux Valgus
    148- I work at Fox. There's a one sheet for Idiocracy in the Searchlight offices. We joke that it constitutes the entirety of the promotion budget.
    2007-05-10 09:41:54
    158.   Benaiah
    148, 150 - "Office Space" is pretty uneven in its own right, though "Idiocracy" is way more so. Fox slashed the budget and then dumped the movie in something like 6 theaters with no commercials and refused to let it play in any festivals. Still, it is screamingly funny and really sharp satire, with a few technical and narrative problems.

    Has anyone seen CSA: Confederate States of America? I think that was my favorite movie of last year, tied with Children of Men anyway.

    2007-05-10 09:42:03
    159.   Humma Kavula
    Martin!!
    2007-05-10 09:42:29
    160.   Andrew Shimmin
    It's like he just didn't want to be on base any more.
    2007-05-10 09:43:03
    161.   underdog
    Marlins announcer on Martin just there: "Is there anything Martin can't do?"
    2007-05-10 09:43:10
    162.   still bevens
    Lowe's getting all kinds of favors done for him. I like it. (for now)

    157 Do you work in the Century City complex? Im a couple blocks up the street off Ave. of the Stars.

    2007-05-10 09:43:38
    163.   Gen3Blue
    Oh ,that Martin. And our defense. But I'm not sure how this line-up gets the run.
    2007-05-10 09:43:43
    164.   Humma Kavula
    Now 28 pitches for Lowe through 3.
    2007-05-10 09:43:43
    165.   Doctor
    Beat-it fish baserunner.
    2007-05-10 09:44:05
    166.   Jon Weisman
    158 - I really am trying to keep steering the entertainment conversation to Screen Jam, still.
    2007-05-10 09:44:39
    167.   Hallux Valgus
    162- yeah, in the Die Hard tower.
    2007-05-10 09:44:53
    168.   underdog
    158 I rented CSA a few months ago and really liked much of it - especially the hilarious, and disturbing, fake ads. Really clever film, even if not all of it works. Would make a good double feature with Ken Burns' Civil War ;-)
    2007-05-10 09:45:32
    169.   Benaiah
    166 - We are always hanging out here, so while we will jump there to post on a subject, the spontaneous stuff ends up here.
    2007-05-10 09:45:53
    170.   underdog
    What's up with Azamega anyway - looks like his mascara's running.

    rats, I have to leave for work soon - which means I'll probably miss the one inning of the game where someone scores.

    2007-05-10 09:46:15
    171.   Branch Rickey
    167- I'm looking right at the Northwest side of your building!
    2007-05-10 09:46:23
    172.   Bluebleeder87
    The Afflac trivia question is pretty easy today.
    2007-05-10 09:47:16
    173.   underdog
    I like the way Gonzo worked the count there and allowed Nomar to go back to the dugout to rest so quickly. Well done, hip hip!
    2007-05-10 09:47:47
    174.   Jon Weisman
    169 - I get that things pop up spontaneously, but when it starts to become "have you seen this," "have you seen that," I think I've been pretty clear that for now, at least, I'd like that to be over there.

    I know that attendance over there is a problem, but I am going to try to do things to build it up, and we have to start somewhere.

    2007-05-10 09:48:18
    175.   underdog
    Steve Sax and Eric Karros, Dodger captains.

    These Marlins announcers are a little off.

    2007-05-10 09:48:26
    176.   Benaiah
    168 - I had a hard time watching a lot of the movie, the satire was so cutting that I felt uncomfortable through a lot of the movie. Plus, the main premise of the movie is not "What if" but more like drawing a parallel between the USA and the CSA. I watched the movie twice in two days, I was so blown away by it.
    2007-05-10 09:49:29
    177.   Andrew Shimmin
    171- He said menacingly, in a thin, Eastern European accent.
    2007-05-10 09:52:27
    178.   underdog
    We should move movie chat over to screen jam, Ben, in deference to Jon - cut and paste that one over there?

    I wonder if those schookids in the crowd today are squirming and asking their teachers, "Why is the game so boring?"

    2007-05-10 09:53:21
    179.   delias man
    who is hurt? watching on gameday
    2007-05-10 09:53:25
    180.   StolenMonkey86
    who got hurt?
    2007-05-10 09:53:36
    181.   Vishal
    [178] so far it's actually somewhat "interesting"
    2007-05-10 09:54:19
    182.   StolenMonkey86
    181 - And Dan Uggla made it boring again.
    2007-05-10 09:54:35
    183.   underdog
    They were just being precautionary with Lowe after he knocked down that ball up the middle. I think Grady wanted to just give him time to get back into his rhythm. Which, after that base hit, you wonder if he's still not in...
    2007-05-10 09:54:44
    184.   Bluebleeder87
    for those of you who are at work the trivia question was, who holds the Dodger record for most pitch hit homeruns & as i suspected Dave Hansen holds that record with 13
    2007-05-10 09:55:31
    185.   Vishal
    ah, spoke too soon. darn gameday lag.
    2007-05-10 09:55:59
    186.   underdog
    I think Grady saw this coming but couldn't stop it.
    2007-05-10 09:57:04
    187.   underdog
    That was a beautiful double play turned by Martinez and Valdez, after Ramon's sweet grab of that shot. Lowe got really lucky in that inning.
    2007-05-10 09:57:08
    188.   Bluebleeder87
    what a great great double play by Martinez to Wilson Valdez!.
    2007-05-10 09:57:17
    189.   still bevens
    Culmination. This goes all the way back to Jon's comment about having Martinez and Valdez in there. Lets score some runs now!
    2007-05-10 09:57:39
    190.   StolenMonkey86
    186 - saw what?
    2007-05-10 09:58:28
    191.   Doctor
    We will need a run at some point.
    2007-05-10 09:59:03
    192.   bhsportsguy
    Sounds like Lowe has a good sinker working, I don't think either club has been thrilled with any of umpires when they have worked behind the plate.
    2007-05-10 09:59:46
    193.   Gen3Blue
    120 189 I have to say Jon's statement looks downright prescient.
    Is Valdez known for defense?
    2007-05-10 10:01:09
    194.   Humma Kavula
    193 He'd better be. He's not known for offense.
    2007-05-10 10:01:42
    195.   underdog
    190 I just meant the hard hit base-hits following the one up the middle that Lowe knocked down and then became distracted. But he got out of it.

    I predict that Pierre will win the game on an inside the park bunt home run.

    2007-05-10 10:01:43
    196.   jasonungar07
    I think I am shifting my attention from replacing Juan Pierre in center with Kemp to replacing Gonzo with Kemp. Maybe Juan needs to be the leadoff spot this year instead of in the 2 hole. Maybe we try Furcal there? As others mentioned maybe we are getting what we will be getting out of Juan (he will be a little better I belive when he calms down a little) and even though not my style he does do some things out there that are pretty good. Gonzo though, I see no upside.
    2007-05-10 10:02:00
    197.   still bevens
    The odds of both pitchers going 9 in this game are not bad right now.
    2007-05-10 10:02:07
    198.   Benaiah
    It is ridiculous that both pitchers are on a complete game pace. Take a pitch already.
    2007-05-10 10:02:23
    199.   Gen3Blue
    True enough.
    2007-05-10 10:04:05
    200.   StolenMonkey86
    Actually at this rate, they could both go 9 without a complete game.
    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2007-05-10 10:04:09
    201.   underdog
    197 ...or 11, even.
    2007-05-10 10:05:50
    202.   old dodger fan
    I know it is early but how long since we played a game in less than 2 hours?
    2007-05-10 10:06:22
    203.   Doctor
    196

    Except that he is leading the D's in HRs.

    2007-05-10 10:09:14
    204.   Gen3Blue
    Lowe's doing well for the unusual approach of starting every inning and most batters with a ball. This is not really sarcasm, for it seems he works his way up into the strike zone. Its better than starting in the middle of the plate and moving that sinker down, I bet.
    2007-05-10 10:10:51
    205.   still bevens
    196 I think Pierre returning to leadoff is a fine idea. Its not like Furcal is putting up numbers that would make him completely unmovable from the spot.
    2007-05-10 10:10:59
    206.   underdog
    Well, Lowe seemed fine that inning.
    2007-05-10 10:11:17
    207.   Humma Kavula
    Both pitchers have thrown 53 pitches. Mitre has thrown more strikes than Lowe (33 vs. 29).
    2007-05-10 10:11:54
    208.   old dodger fan
    5 innings and almost identical numbers for both pitcher- 2 hits ; 0 runs; 2 walks and 53 pitches each.
    2007-05-10 10:12:56
    209.   Humma Kavula
    Pierre works the count full!
    2007-05-10 10:12:57
    210.   Jacob L
    So long as the option of Pierre batting 8th is off the table, I don't see much harm in moving him to leadoff, if he'll perform better there.
    2007-05-10 10:13:11
    211.   Connector
    Hi everybody. Just now logged on.

    Jon - I am so glad you said something in your "Saito" opener about his smile. He may be 37 years old, but that smile lights up his face with the joy and enthusiasm of a young kid. I love it.

    I was going to write the above comment last night when Sammy won the game, but I got distracted. Thanks for reminding me.

    2007-05-10 10:13:30
    212.   Humma Kavula
    ...and a line drive base hit! This is a great game for Juan - one of his best so far as a Dodger.
    2007-05-10 10:14:13
    213.   Berkeley Doug
    I'm sensing a hit and run.
    2007-05-10 10:15:04
    214.   El Lay Dave
    212 A walk and no fly balls - who spoke with him after the game?
    2007-05-10 10:15:46
    215.   old dodger fan
    Pierre-3 PA's; 3 times on base + a SB.
    2007-05-10 10:17:02
    216.   El Lay Dave
    215 Unfortunately the Dodgers didn't bring him home in the first.
    2007-05-10 10:17:22
    217.   MollyKnight
    Is Pierre having a good game?

    Yah!

    2007-05-10 10:17:41
    218.   El Lay Dave
    make that two SB for Mr. Pierre.
    2007-05-10 10:17:42
    219.   MMSMikey
    wow nomar, thats pretty bad.
    2007-05-10 10:18:19
    220.   Jacob L
    I guess Nomar wasn't going to hit .700 with RISP all year.
    2007-05-10 10:18:37
    221.   El Lay Dave
    Gah - one out, gotta get that guy home.
    2007-05-10 10:18:48
    222.   underdog
    Pierre's doing all he can today, I'll give him that. Unfortunately, the Dodgers are hitting like they think the bases are loaded.
    2007-05-10 10:18:56
    223.   El Lay Dave
    220 I would have settled for a fly ball.
    2007-05-10 10:19:37
    224.   bhsportsguy
    Twice Mitre has jammed batters (Martin and Nomar with Pierre in scoring position).
    2007-05-10 10:19:41
    225.   Jacob L
    Are they seriously pitching around Gonzo here?
    2007-05-10 10:20:19
    226.   El Lay Dave
    225 To get to Ethier? Was that a pitch-around?
    2007-05-10 10:20:21
    227.   Vishal
    [210] i find the notion that a batter's performance changes in any meaningful way depending on what spot they are in the order to be highly dubious.
    2007-05-10 10:20:26
    228.   Benaiah
    Make em pay, Andre.
    2007-05-10 10:20:39
    229.   bhsportsguy
    I do think for a pitcher like Lowe, the fast pace of the game helps keep in rhythm.
    2007-05-10 10:21:41
    230.   bhsportsguy
    227 Sounds like a SABR study to me.
    2007-05-10 10:21:55
    231.   MMSMikey
    pathetic.
    2007-05-10 10:22:23
    232.   underdog
    Pleh.
    2007-05-10 10:22:32
    233.   Humma Kavula
    It's Bizarro Day. Juan Pierre is the bulk of the offense.
    2007-05-10 10:22:55
    234.   BlueCrew Bruin
    Wow. Hello 2003.
    2007-05-10 10:24:27
    235.   El Lay Dave
    Mitre is nowhere near this good of a pitcher, must be hard to hit in these "morning" games.
    2007-05-10 10:24:27
    236.   Benaiah
    234 - Come on guys, every team has a bad day and we are resting two front of the order starters. We scored 4 or more runs the last 3 days in a row. 2003 was much, much worse than this.
    2007-05-10 10:25:02
    237.   Humma Kavula
    227 I agree. It's likely not to make any difference at all.

    That said, he's likely not to do any worse, and I could be wrong about the upside of moving him. If the worst case scenario is that it would make no difference, why not give it a shot -- so long as we don't expect it to be the panacea that will solve everything?

    2007-05-10 10:25:30
    238.   Jacob L
    Your 2007 Dodger Offense. Not nearly as bad as 2003.
    2007-05-10 10:25:37
    239.   Disabled List
    One of the worst things about MLB.tv is not being able to choose which teams' broadcast to watch. Four straight days of having to watch the Marlins' telecasts is making me nauseous.

    No wonder nobody in Miami likes baseball.

    2007-05-10 10:25:57
    240.   BlueCrew Bruin
    236 Point taken. Just blowing off steam. :)
    2007-05-10 10:26:26
    241.   Gen3Blue
    Despite Pierre getting to third with one out, we couldn't score him. But I am afraid this is a pretty accurate view of our offense if you take away Kent and Furcal.
    2007-05-10 10:26:46
    242.   bhsportsguy
    Looking at San Diego, down 2-0 in the first, you wonder how long they can keep David Wells in the rotation. ERA close to 6, BAA is .336
    2007-05-10 10:26:49
    243.   natepurcell
    Hanley Ramirez is so good. I cant believe he turned out this good.
    2007-05-10 10:28:01
    244.   Doctor
    We have some nice pinch-hitting options this game, if the situation calls for it.
    2007-05-10 10:29:37
    245.   Andrew Shimmin
    237- You have a conflict of interest here, Mr. OutWatch.
    2007-05-10 10:30:05
    246.   Connector
    239
    You got that right! If enough of us write MLB will they get us Dodgers broadcasters?
    2007-05-10 10:30:10
    247.   Jacob L
    234 Seriously. I saw him play at AA (Portland). I thought he had no business playing short in the major leagues, but what do I know.
    2007-05-10 10:31:30
    248.   Jacob L
    This might have been the wrong day for Jon's "Betemit is back" column.
    2007-05-10 10:31:46
    249.   Xeifrank
    Just checking in while on break from a very boring training class. wow, Betemit, Valdez, Martinez, Lowe and Pierre all batting in a row. No wonder why we are getting shutout by Sergio. Probably will take a solo shot by our 3-4-or-5 hitter to win this game 1-0. vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 10:33:02
    250.   El Lay Dave
    249 or the 2 hitter.
    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2007-05-10 10:33:57
    251.   schoffle
    Pierre leading off

    Over the past couple of days I seem to be noticing more than a few calls for Pierre to be moved up to the leadoff spot and I thought it necessary to point out the prior to today's game his OBP SLG OPS from the lead off position are .225 .237 .462 in 38 at bats.

    2007-05-10 10:34:25
    252.   El Lay Dave
    248 Maybe he'll hit a slam in the top of the ninth to win it.
    2007-05-10 10:36:16
    253.   Jacob L
    To be clear, I'm not calling for Pierre to bat leadoff. I'm saying, relative to his batting second, it won't hurt us that much.

    On another note, is anyone else concerned that Martin is playing too much. I know he's young and spry, but a catcher is a catcher. I thought Lieberthal was here for a reason.

    2007-05-10 10:37:22
    254.   Jacob L
    Assuming someone scores a run, this game might be over before my 11 o'clock meeting.
    2007-05-10 10:37:55
    255.   DeucesAreWild
    Orlando Cabrera?
    2007-05-10 10:37:55
    256.   bhsportsguy
    253 Martin did have 2 days off last week.

    I would guess that he will have a day off over the weekend.

    2007-05-10 10:38:11
    257.   Doctor
    Martin is definitely being over played. You cant catch every game and not pay the price at some point. Really bothers me.
    2007-05-10 10:38:46
    258.   old dodger fan
    Lowe today:
    Ground outs-fly outs: Lowe 11-2
    2007-05-10 10:39:28
    259.   blue22
    Good to get Cabrera out of the way there. Hopefully that's his last AB of the game.
    2007-05-10 10:39:33
    260.   Bob Timmermann
    253
    Lieberthal said after his last start that he knew that he wasn't going to be starting much and that Martin was a catcher like Jason Kendall in that he will start nearly every day.

    Fortunately, Martin hits a wee bit better than Jason Kendall.

    2007-05-10 10:39:35
    261.   bryanf
    How many times is Charlie Steiner going to call MIGUEL Cabrera, ORLANDO Cabrera. About the only similarity besides last name is that they both play the left side of the infield. Next thing you know he'll be calling him Jolbert Cabrera.

    Seriously, though, is there anything worse than listening to Steve Lyons? I guess it COULD be worse...at least we don't have to deal with Tim McCarver.

    I miss Vinnie.

    2007-05-10 10:42:27
    262.   bhsportsguy
    Okay, pinch hitter or keep Lowe in?
    2007-05-10 10:42:43
    263.   chazmac138
    261
    Seriously, though, is there anything worse than listening to Steve Lyons? I guess it COULD be worse...at least we don't have to deal with Tim McCarver.

    Comedy. I couldn't have said that any better myself. Tim McCarver is the devil.

    2007-05-10 10:43:34
    264.   Doctor
    KEEP LOWE IN
    2007-05-10 10:43:46
    265.   blue22
    262 - I'll take Furcal leading off the 8th, thanks. Great outing by Lowe.
    2007-05-10 10:43:52
    266.   old dodger fan
    262 I'd leave him in.
    2007-05-10 10:43:59
    267.   bhsportsguy
    Lowe is doing his best Maddux impersonation.
    2007-05-10 10:44:02
    268.   Bluebleeder87
    Steve Lyons made a great point in that Sergio Mitre (sp) is in "uncharted water" right now as far as pitch count goes so maybe the Dodgers will get something going this up coming inning. veremos.
    2007-05-10 10:44:15
    269.   Connector
    261 There's something worse... listening to Mark Grace call Broxton "big", or women sitting at the bar "babes"
    2007-05-10 10:44:28
    270.   Benaiah
    262 - I leave him in. He could easily pitch 3 more innings at the rate he's going, and he is leading off not coming up with me on. Luckily, Grittle agrees with me.
    2007-05-10 10:44:33
    271.   El Lay Dave
    262 Keep Lowe in. Only 73 pitches, rest the pen and hope to scratch out a run soon.
    2007-05-10 10:44:41
    272.   Jacob L
    Maybe I'm just stung by the Mike Piazza/Paul Loduca experience.

    Relying on catcher for offense + starting every day = crummy month of September.

    I know Martin held up fine last year, but at his age, and with a limited track record, I'd want to err on the side of caution.

    2007-05-10 10:46:35
    273.   blue22
    265 - Guess not. I would've considered leaving him in if it were a bunt situation. But leading off the eighth in a scoreless game, considering the bench LA has today? Hmm...

    Good chance to rest the pen though. I'll allow it :)

    2007-05-10 10:46:56
    274.   Jon Weisman
    272 - Maybe one of these years, we won't need our catcher to be great in September to win a division. We can dream.
    2007-05-10 10:48:03
    275.   Blaine
    The Dodgers could use you on base today, though Benaiah.
    2007-05-10 10:48:19
    276.   Benaiah
    Those pitches look fat on ESPN gameday.
    2007-05-10 10:49:47
    277.   old dodger fan
    276 I wish they look fat to Martin.
    2007-05-10 10:50:04
    278.   Benaiah
    275 - "me" equals "men" in 270. I had to read your comment about 5 times before I understood it.
    2007-05-10 10:51:09
    279.   El Lay Dave
    Martin is on pace to start at C about 139 games, which seems a little too much to me. Therein lies the rub of having a catcher as one of your best hitters - he has to rest a certain amount. Maybe he can DH most of the games in AL parks.
    2007-05-10 10:51:53
    280.   Gagne55
    With his pitch count, Lowe could throw a 10 inning shutout. Hopefully, he'll only need a shutout of the 9 inning variety.
    2007-05-10 10:51:57
    281.   old dodger fan
    I think we have seen the last of Sergio for today. His ERA must have dropped a lot.
    2007-05-10 10:52:21
    282.   Jacob L
    274 2004 would be that year, but I'm dreaming bigger. I want our catcher to be great in the playoffs so we can get to the World Series!
    2007-05-10 10:52:25
    283.   scareduck
    I find Lowe's sudden string of airball outs disturbing.
    2007-05-10 10:52:54
    284.   El Lay Dave
    Fredi looking for lightning to strike twice.
    2007-05-10 10:53:37
    285.   blue22
    281 - It dropped 0.99 runs. Now at a very impressive 2.13.
    2007-05-10 10:54:12
    286.   Bluebleeder87
    Those pitches look fat on ESPN gameday.

    Mitre just had the Dodgers # today. You have to see the Dodger hitters against him to understand what i'm talking about, he's out of the game now so let's see what we do against a new arm from the Marlins.

    2007-05-10 10:54:42
    287.   El Lay Dave
    238 two hits and one fly over the last two innings, plus one out in the 8th doesn't seem like a "string" to me.
    2007-05-10 10:54:43
    288.   Jacob L
    If we make 2 quick outs in the 9th, I say we punt.
    2007-05-10 10:55:17
    289.   El Lay Dave
    287 ... and a K.
    2007-05-10 10:55:22
    290.   blue22
    282 - Well, we'd like to avoid trading our starting catcher in order to have a well-rested one in September.
    2007-05-10 10:55:44
    291.   Disabled List
    I've never been more depressed by a 0-0 game.
    2007-05-10 10:56:14
    292.   Gagne55
    286 Plus we have the B lineup out there. No Kent or Furcal.
    2007-05-10 10:56:19
    293.   Jon Weisman
    Tony Jackson, just a bit jaded:

    "This game is so boring that I just spent the past 10 minutes ordering a pair of noise-canceling headphones with my American Express rewards points."

    2007-05-10 10:56:42
    294.   The Blue Legend
    We need a run here. I don't want Cabrera to win it in the ninth.
    2007-05-10 10:57:19
    295.   El Lay Dave
    ... and a grounder. Great work from Lowe today.
    2007-05-10 10:57:45
    296.   Benaiah
    291 - Yeah, but Mitre has 4 Ks and 3 BB in 8 innings. The Dodgers were a tad unlucky today and this is our "B" squad. Cheer up.
    2007-05-10 10:59:24
    297.   Bob Timmermann
    Mitre's ERA dropped by 0.99
    2007-05-10 10:59:44
    298.   El Lay Dave
    LOOGY in, what will Grady go? Kent for Ethier, Olemedo for Betemit?
    2007-05-10 11:00:23
    299.   Gagne55
    294 Marlins ain't winning it in the 9th with the way Lowe is dealing. But we need a run. We don't want to go to the pen.
    2007-05-10 11:00:56
    300.   still bevens
    Come on Luis, lets wrap this game up. Make that money.
    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2007-05-10 11:01:04
    301.   The Blue Legend
    This and Olmedo type of situation....
    2007-05-10 11:01:29
    302.   Gagne55
    If Gonzo walks, do you pinch run Furcal?
    2007-05-10 11:01:55
    303.   El Lay Dave
    You have to assume that Grady doesn't PH for LuGo.
    2007-05-10 11:02:05
    304.   Benaiah
    Nomar looks miserable this year. He has been considerably worse than Pierre, though at least he was hitting in the clutch. I hope that he goes on the DL soon and Loney gets his chance to play Gehrig.
    2007-05-10 11:02:37
    305.   Gagne55
    302 Point is moot.
    2007-05-10 11:03:04
    306.   El Lay Dave
    PH here brings in a righty, methinks.
    2007-05-10 11:03:07
    307.   The Blue Legend
    you can't let gonzo run if he gets on...
    2007-05-10 11:03:26
    308.   The Blue Legend
    Let's go Olmedo.....
    2007-05-10 11:03:41
    309.   Gagne55
    303 Pinch hit and pinch run are two completely different things.
    2007-05-10 11:04:44
    310.   El Lay Dave
    ... or not.
    2007-05-10 11:05:13
    311.   Gagne55
    Looks like Lowe might go 10, then...
    2007-05-10 11:05:29
    312.   Westernmost in Flavor
    Brad Penny and Rafael Furcal doing the Rally Mummy....and it doesn't work
    2007-05-10 11:05:39
    313.   Benaiah
    Grady Little is Jim Tracy like in his fawning adoration of veterans. He is more flexible and willing to bench someone who is slumping, but he would never pinch hit for the less productive Nomar in that situation.
    2007-05-10 11:05:48
    314.   JT Dutch
    Looks like the guys are trying to make outs quickly and get on an early flight out of there. Only problem is someone has to score.
    2007-05-10 11:06:22
    315.   old dodger fan
    Padres rally in Atlanta
    2007-05-10 11:07:00
    316.   ssjames
    311 You think that they would let Lowe hit again?
    2007-05-10 11:07:15
    317.   ssjames
    311 You think that they would let Lowe hit again?
    2007-05-10 11:07:35
    318.   old dodger fan
    Lowe has only thrown 83 pitches.
    2007-05-10 11:07:51
    319.   Benaiah
    The Marlins 1-2-3 is pretty frightening. With Josh Beckett dealing this year, do you think the Red Sox regret trading Hanley Ramirez?
    2007-05-10 11:08:47
    320.   Benaiah
    316 - The decision only makes more sense if the game goes into extra innings.
    2007-05-10 11:08:50
    321.   El Lay Dave
    309 sorry, 303 was unclearly following on to 298.
    2007-05-10 11:09:55
    322.   Gagne55
    If Lowe gets through the 9th in 10 pitches or less, I'd leave him in.
    2007-05-10 11:10:42
    323.   El Lay Dave
    If there ever was a time for a DP grounder....
    2007-05-10 11:10:50
    324.   capdodger
    322 Looks like that might not matter.
    2007-05-10 11:10:58
    325.   Benaiah
    I am terrified.
    2007-05-10 11:11:22
    326.   El Lay Dave
    GAH! 323 written before the E5.
    2007-05-10 11:11:54
    327.   El Lay Dave
    Um, so did we learn something the other night? Pitch around Cabrera!
    2007-05-10 11:12:21
    328.   ssjames
    325 You are not alone.
    2007-05-10 11:12:27
    329.   ssjames
    325 You are not alone.
    2007-05-10 11:12:30
    330.   Benaiah
    Walk the bases loaded?
    2007-05-10 11:12:31
    331.   Doctor
    You have to go Saito now, hope for the K.
    2007-05-10 11:12:49
    332.   El Lay Dave
    And 327 written before the 1-3! Was that a dribbler?
    2007-05-10 11:13:38
    333.   BlueCrew Bruin
    Rats.
    2007-05-10 11:13:39
    334.   El Lay Dave
    330 Yes. That's textbook, no?
    2007-05-10 11:13:46
    335.   LeeLacy
    That really bites.
    2007-05-10 11:13:51
    336.   JT Dutch
    Yeah, looked like the Dodgers tanked this one. They wanted no part of it; looks like they're content with the split and an early flight back home.
    2007-05-10 11:14:02
    337.   Xeifrank
    walk the bases loaded, then pray for a DP?
    vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:14:04
    338.   scareduck
    Fish heart Willingham.
    2007-05-10 11:14:10
    339.   Benaiah
    What is going on? Going to the bullpen? IBB? I cant see anything.
    2007-05-10 11:14:15
    340.   old dodger fan
    You walk the leadoff hitter and it comes back to bite you.
    2007-05-10 11:14:21
    341.   Westernmost in Flavor
    Ugh. I'm not sure I understand why you don't set up a double play by walking Willingham.
    2007-05-10 11:14:38
    342.   Bluebleeder87
    well seeing that didn't feel to good.
    2007-05-10 11:14:54
    343.   Benaiah
    Misery. 341 is on the money.
    2007-05-10 11:15:00
    344.   El Lay Dave
    HOLY HECK GRADY - you don't pitch to that guy! You IBB him with first open and pitch to Aaron "in decline" Boone!
    2007-05-10 11:15:17
    345.   BlueCrew Bruin
    339 3-run blast by Willingham.
    2007-05-10 11:15:30
    346.   Bob Timmermann
    First CG Dodger loss since
    http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2005/B09170SFN2005.htm

    September 17, 2005 in San Francisco by Jeff Weaver.

    2007-05-10 11:15:32
    347.   ROC
    Ugh. The only thing that can make this feel worse...yep, there it is, the Marlins annoucers screaming "It's Hammer time! It's Hammer time!"

    Alright, let's get home and start winning in SoCal.

    2007-05-10 11:15:33
    348.   Greg Brock
    Thanks, Wilson.

    YOU. FAIL.

    2007-05-10 11:15:42
    349.   Xeifrank
    337. Or go for the 3-run HR. And appeal the runners missed home plate.
    vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:16:14
    350.   still bevens
    Leadoff walk, plus error = bad news. Our defense really seems to be costing us games.
    Show/Hide Comments 351-400
    2007-05-10 11:16:29
    351.   Gagne55
    Why, Betemit, why?
    2007-05-10 11:16:35
    352.   Benaiah
    That is a terrible, terrible decision by Grady. That is a no brainer, IBB to Willingham. This outcome looks the worst, but really a deep fly ball is the same thing. At least with him on first you have a chance to end the inning without throwing home.
    2007-05-10 11:16:38
    353.   capdodger
    330 Yes. The only runner that matters to the offense is the lead runner, but the defense can retire any of them. The only reason I can think of not to walk them loaded in that case is righty-lefty stuff.
    2007-05-10 11:16:38
    354.   Greg Brock
    And yes, not walking Willingham was really, really dumb.

    I can't wait to hear the explanation on that one.

    2007-05-10 11:16:42
    355.   Xeifrank
    Was Jim Tracy the Dodgers guest manager today? vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:16:54
    356.   El Lay Dave
    343 And your 330. And my agreement in 334. Etc.
    2007-05-10 11:16:57
    357.   Bluebleeder87
    341

    I thought that's what Grady went to tell Lowe. Guess not.

    2007-05-10 11:17:14
    358.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
    Time of game is a crisp two hours and change.
    Getaway day indeed.
    2007-05-10 11:17:14
    359.   underdog
    Ugh, indeed. I'm so glad I made it into the office in time to see the bottom of the ninth. Whee! So, leave Lowe in there, pitch to the hitter with runners on 2nd and 3rd. Yeah, Grady's brain was already on that plane back to LA.

    Too bad, Lowe pitched a good game, too. This offense today was just... offensive.

    2007-05-10 11:17:54
    360.   bhsportsguy
    First, teams always look tired when they don't score.

    Second, Grady is going to have to figure out if he needs another arm in the pen, preferably someone who can throw more than one inning.

    Betemit's error hurt because if it is runner on second and two out, Lowe doesn't have to pitch to Willingham.

    Tough trip, going 3-4 when they could have won 3 more games. Starters actually pitched pretty well during the trip.

    2007-05-10 11:18:36
    361.   underdog
    Fun exercise after the early and quick game: Let's plaster Tony Jackson's blog with angry comments!
    2007-05-10 11:18:38
    362.   neuroboy002
    I missed this game - was Mitre really that "on" or was our offense really bad.
    2007-05-10 11:19:13
    363.   El Lay Dave
    353 But Boone is righty also and the Marlins had no LH bats left (other than Dontrelle)
    2007-05-10 11:19:31
    364.   capdodger
    357 Grady probably asked Lowe if he could retire Willingham. Lowe told him he could get him, and Grady beileved him. Then Grady got burned. Again.
    2007-05-10 11:19:42
    365.   Xeifrank
    Grady left Pedro in the game too long today.
    vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:20:10
    366.   Greg Brock
    If there was any chance of Betemit holding on to the third base job, I'm assuming that 0-3 and a ridiculous error killed it.

    Unpack, Andy. Stay a while.

    2007-05-10 11:20:16
    367.   Benaiah
    Grady loves to double switch and do crazy lefty right matchups, but if you can't manage the simplest aspects of the game then what good are you? He went out to the mound and said what? "Don't give up any runs or we lost ok?" "Hey, I gotta 7 pm back in LA, do you mind wrapping this one up?"
    2007-05-10 11:20:21
    368.   Xeifrank
    362. Look at the starting lineup!
    vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:20:30
    369.   Doctor
    I really dont get that. You either go for the K with Saito or Broxton or you set up the Lowe DP with a walk. How does the desition to have Lowe pitch to the guy get reached? Very odd.
    2007-05-10 11:21:12
    370.   regfairfield
    To Grady's credit, I'm surprised he made such a bad decision.
    2007-05-10 11:21:21
    371.   Gagne55
    Question: was the E5 in the ninth on a double play ball?
    2007-05-10 11:21:38
    372.   Xeifrank
    369. Exactly! Lowe is a groundball pitcher, which makes it even more of a no-brainer.
    vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:21:40
    373.   Westernmost in Flavor
    363
    I guess Grady still has Aaron Boone nightmares.
    2007-05-10 11:21:41
    374.   El Lay Dave
    360 He didn't have to pitch to Willingham anyway. The E5 hurts because Lowe had to pitch to Cabrera, but he got him.
    2007-05-10 11:22:02
    375.   capdodger
    360 Do tell why Lowe has to pitch to Willingham with 2nd and 3rd, one out.
    2007-05-10 11:22:40
    376.   Benaiah
    367 - I had typos in both quotes, so obviously I am worked up. The offense was bad, and probably an IBB still ends the same way, but I put the loss on Grittle's head anyway. The average little leaguer knew what to do in that situation.
    2007-05-10 11:22:42
    377.   underdog
    Or better yet, let's go crazy, Broadway style!
    2007-05-10 11:24:31
    378.   Benaiah
    373 - I wonder if Grittle really did try and avoid Aaron Boone. "Fool me once, shame on you... but if I fool myself the second time, then at least I am not a lead story on Sports Center."
    2007-05-10 11:25:08
    379.   Vishal
    betemit sure didn't buy himself much extra playing time with today's performance.
    2007-05-10 11:25:22
    380.   bhsportsguy
    Again, its always execution and right now, this is a team that is going to be not perfect but because they don't hit the long ball, they need everything to work.

    A leadoff walk, an error, not moving a runner to scoring positon, not driving in a runner on a third with less than two out, those are things this team needs to execute in order for them to win most games.

    2007-05-10 11:25:23
    381.   capdodger
    Willigham is such a greedy stat-padder. A real ballplayer would have hit a sac fly.
    2007-05-10 11:25:30
    382.   El Lay Dave
    Can someone who saw it describe the E5 and the Cabrera 1-3? Were either a DP opportunity?
    2007-05-10 11:25:39
    383.   Westernmost in Flavor
    352
    I totally agree with your post. Even with the IBB, i think the odds are still with the Dodgers losing in that situation. That said, I think the IBB improves the Dodgers chances of escaping the jam.

    Does anyone have access to how the win expectancy changes with or without the IBB?

    2007-05-10 11:25:43
    384.   Bluebleeder87
    Then Grady got burned. Again.

    It was a no brainer, Betemits error for a crisp double play also hurt but we must understand that Betemit was a little rusty so i'm not to P.O'd about that one.

    2007-05-10 11:26:17
    385.   Xeifrank
    I hope this game was a going away party for a few unnamed infielders.
    vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:26:52
    386.   Westernmost in Flavor
    382
    Neither had a chance of being a DP. Betemit should have still gotten one out though.
    2007-05-10 11:27:11
    387.   neuroboy002
    362Hmmm. Furcal had the day off (?) Nomar and Betemit have taken the season off. What's going on with Ethier? We know he's a better hitter than that (?) And losing in a game where Pierre was lading off and was hitting... I guess the stars were not aligned.
    2007-05-10 11:29:10
    388.   regfairfield
    387 Ethier was hitting .292/.340/.458 coming into this game. I don't think you can ask for much more from him.
    2007-05-10 11:29:54
    389.   capdodger
    The funny thing is, the "book" on what to do in that situation is an IBB to load the bases. You might not give out an IBB to bring up Pujols or someone like that, but Boone? It's like Grady was trying to build up his "against the grain" street cred or something.
    2007-05-10 11:31:15
    390.   LeeLacy
    The Dodgers have forgotten how to string victories together. Only once in the last two-and-a-half weeks have they so much as won back-to-back games.

    Their last three losses on this road trip were all imminently winnable. Maybe getting back home will be good for what ails them. Still, a pretty disappointing road trip.

    2007-05-10 11:31:34
    391.   underdog
    Errors happen. Not a good time for that one to happen, granted, but they happen. It's what you to do erase them that count and in the ninth the Dodgers blew it. The stars weren't aligned and neither were the coaches brains, apparently. Ah well, time to move on, go home and wake up the offense.
    2007-05-10 11:31:59
    392.   El Lay Dave
    352 381 To left or center, the fly wouldn't have to be all that deep....
    2007-05-10 11:32:12
    393.   Vishal
    [388] you think his ceiling is around an .800 OPS?
    2007-05-10 11:32:16
    394.   Andrew Shimmin
    383- Chances of the home team's winning increase by 3.8% with the bases loaded, over just second and third.
    2007-05-10 11:32:39
    395.   regfairfield
    393 Pretty much.
    2007-05-10 11:33:36
    396.   bhsportsguy
    Plays that hurt the Dodgers chances today.

    1. Martin popping up with Pierre on secound in the first.
    2. Gonzo hitting into a first pitch double play.
    3. Nomar popping up with Pierre on third and one out.
    4. Leadoff walk by Lowe in the 9th.
    5. Error by Betemit on a force play ground ball in the 9th.
    6. Fat pitch to Willingham for homer.

    The Dodgers could have a 2 runs today by just doing a couple of things and they could still be playing if Betemit cleanly fields the groundball.

    2007-05-10 11:33:40
    397.   Benaiah
    394 - There is no way that is true. I think the run expectancy might go up, but no way it is more likely to score when there is a force at every base.
    2007-05-10 11:34:45
    398.   Xeifrank
    383. Just looked it up. The results scream small sample size and are probably all within the margin of error. Home teams chances of winning given a 0-0 game in the bottom of the 9th are.

    Runners at:
    2nd and 3rd: 79.6%
    Loaded: 83.4%
    Third only: 83.1%
    1st and 3rd: 83.8%

    According to this, Grady did the right thing, but it's all likely within the margin of error, or what I'd call noise. It was basically a lose-lose situation in my mind, but I am going to go against the calculator and say our chances of losing would've been slighter with the IBB. You do setup the double play, but you also setup the walk in the winning run. Who knows. vr, Xei

    2007-05-10 11:34:47
    399.   Benaiah
    To anyone who notes that Valdez has won three games for us, this is the downside. All the days where he is a complete cipher and never gets a chance to show off his magic bunting skills.
    2007-05-10 11:34:48
    400.   Greg Brock
    393 What do you think it is, Vishal? I'm with Andrew, .800 is about as good as it's going to get.

    If only he played center...

    Show/Hide Comments 401-450
    2007-05-10 11:35:27
    401.   Jon Weisman
    394/397 - I would think that a walk ending the game with the bases loaded has something to do with it.
    2007-05-10 11:35:29
    402.   bhsportsguy
    397 But a walk, HBP, catcher's interference all drive in the run.
    2007-05-10 11:36:11
    403.   El Lay Dave
    386 Thanks. BTW, Tony Jackson says, "Betemit botched Dan Uggla's DP grounder..."
    2007-05-10 11:36:30
    404.   Benaiah
    398 - I guess that is true, you do set up the possibility of a BB in, still, at least a groundball doesn't have to be played home to win in that situation. Especially with Lowe being such an extreme GB/FB pitcher.
    2007-05-10 11:36:42
    405.   regfairfield
    397 I think it might be sample size based. How often is the home team even allowed to have second and third and one out, bottom of the ninth in a tie game? The walk is automatic in that situation.
    2007-05-10 11:37:51
    406.   Xeifrank
    401. It's most likely noise, because a runner at third only is better than a runner at both second and third and that doesn't make much sense. When the results are this close and the sample size this small, it's most likely noise. vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:40:03
    407.   capdodger
    394 397 The sample size is much larger for bases loaded situations. I sense a SSSW for the second and third situations.
    2007-05-10 11:40:30
    408.   El Lay Dave
    405 The walk is automatic in that situation.

    Uh, not today.

    2007-05-10 11:40:53
    409.   bigcpa
    406 Then throw in extreme groundball pitcher and hefty dropoff from current batter to on-deck batter.
    2007-05-10 11:41:04
    410.   Xeifrank
    I think in the IBB vs loading up the bases and risking the BB,HBP,PB,WP scenario the tie-breaker would probably be what type of hitters do you have up and what type of pitcher do you have pitching. If you are going to go with Lowe, who has good control and is a groundball pitcher, why not go with the IBB to setup the double play. Then on the otherhand you have to take into consideration if Willingham hits alot of fly balls, groundballs or strikes out alot. I would've either stayed with Lowe and given the IBB or brought in a strike out pitcher like Saito or Broxton (mentioned earlier in the thread) and gone for the strike out.
    vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:41:12
    411.   Benaiah
    As a stat-head, I will say that this is a situation that calls for deductive reasoning over precedent. Groundball pitcher on the mound, need two outs, one run ends the game, open base, all lead to the inevitable conclusion that walking Willingham is the right move. That or bringing in Saito, who K's about 50% of all the batters he faces.
    2007-05-10 11:41:32
    412.   bhsportsguy
    Games like this probably leads Ned and Grady to think about adding a pitcher.

    As well Hendrickson has pitched, he seems to be the type that could go 2 or more innings at least twice a week.

    The problem is that the starters, while pitching slightly more, still have hard time going into the 7th, so that's 3 or more innings a game and since Seanez is destined only for blowouts or when the Dodgers are behind, that leaves Chad, Beimel, Broxton, Saito, and Tsao with only Chad and maybe Beimel having the ability to go more than one inning.

    The pitching staff is in limbo, waiting to see what happens with Schmidt, if he is able to come back then, I could see Hendy in the pen, Chad or Kuo in the rotation and Tomko, if he keeps pitching like he is doing right now, being nice trade material.

    2007-05-10 11:41:49
    413.   Vishal
    [400] well, he was at .842 last year over 400 at-bats, including an injury-related slump for most of the 2nd half... i'd like to think he could reproduce something similar to that when he's healthy.
    2007-05-10 11:42:01
    414.   Xeifrank
    409. Yep. Partially covered in 410.
    vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:42:17
    415.   Greg Brock
    This has got to be the end of the Wilson Valdez era, no? Between the two Wilsons, I'm about fed up.

    I'm putting all my Wilson Pickett records in storage to protest.

    2007-05-10 11:44:04
    416.   Doctor
    Well at the very least I would suspect this game should help precipitate some roster moves, if they were not already on the way.
    Starting 3 utility infielders is just not going to get it done.
    2007-05-10 11:44:06
    417.   Xeifrank
    Anybody actually watch the end to this game?
    vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:44:59
    418.   Vishal
    [415] or you could conduct a wilson picket outside dodger stadium...
    2007-05-10 11:46:36
    419.   Bob Timmermann
    418
    Don't wait till the midnight hour to set that up.
    2007-05-10 11:46:42
    420.   Benaiah
    415 - I am not done with Betemit, but if Valdez is still on the roster next week then I am... complaining here I guess.
    2007-05-10 11:46:58
    421.   underdog
    415 Are you at least keeping your Wilson Phillips LPs?

    417 Yes, unfortunately.

    2007-05-10 11:47:19
    422.   Greg Brock
    418 Good work. Very nice.

    I wouldn't be so upset if not for Betemit's error. If only Wilson could pick it.

    2007-05-10 11:48:08
    423.   blue22
    Lowe usually walks the guy in that situation anyway. Grady should've forced his hand by IBB'ing him, but from what I've seen from Lowe over the years is that he is constantly looking to set up the double play.

    Runner on 2nd with less than 2 outs and first base open is almost always a walk from Lowe. It's usually 4 sinkers, low and away.

    2007-05-10 11:48:25
    424.   Xeifrank
    421. was Betemits error a double play ball?
    vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 11:48:39
    425.   Bob Timmermann
    But on another matter, does anyone want an apple fritter? I bought one at Starbucks because I thought my staff really liked them. But it turns out they were just talking about apple fritters a lot because they HATE them.

    So, I have a white elephant apple fritter.

    2007-05-10 11:49:18
    426.   bhsportsguy
    420 Brazoban for Valdez during the homestand is my prediction.
    2007-05-10 11:50:40
    427.   regfairfield
    413 True, Ethier is entirely capable of producing an .850+ OPS. But, he's very batting average dependent, so I don't think you can be disappointed with an .800 OPS.
    2007-05-10 11:51:04
    428.   El Lay Dave
    422 Unfortunately it became more like a night associated with Bobby "Boris" Pickett.

    (BTW RIP to him, died 4/26/07
    http://tinyurl.com/yvm2c8)

    2007-05-10 11:51:51
    429.   trainwreck
    I know a lot of people say Valdez should be gone, but why not Lucille II? He is older, more expensive, less upside, etc.
    2007-05-10 11:52:30
    430.   El Lay Dave
    424 Tony Jackson says yes, Westernmost in Flavor says no.
    2007-05-10 11:53:00
    431.   Greg Brock
    420 I'm not giving up on Betemit either...As a pinch hitter/ utility guy at second and third base. A guy with his ability, some power, is an incredible assest off the bench.

    But I'm over Betemit at third. Not that I was ever under it.

    2007-05-10 11:53:46
    432.   StolenMonkey86
    Lowe pitched a game with a game score of 66 and took the loss.

    Coming into today, the highest game score for a Dodger starter in a game where the Dodgers lost was, well, Randy Wolf's start on Sunday, at 58.

    But you have to score in order to win.

    2007-05-10 11:53:58
    433.   regfairfield
    429 My argument is that he's a better hitter, he has the same upside (none), and that you have to pay his contract even if you release him.
    2007-05-10 11:54:01
    434.   Greg Brock
    431 He's also an asset. In addition to being an assest.

    He's very versatile like that. Ugh.

    2007-05-10 11:54:54
    435.   Greg Brock
    Of course, of all the players that played poorly, you could say that Betemit was the assest today.

    I'm done.

    2007-05-10 11:55:33
    436.   LeeLacy
    424
    I was watching the game. I don't think Betemit could have turned two on that play.
    2007-05-10 11:56:50
    437.   underdog
    425 Only if you can fax the fritter here.

    426 I agree.

    429 They seem to love Martinez. And he is a solid utility infielder. He's usually a better hitter than his average shows right now. The problem, as many of us have pointed out, is having he and his younger clone Valdez makes no sense right now. If they're going to stick with 12 pitchers, it would be better to add Matt Kemp instead of Valdez/Martinez, to add some offense.

    2007-05-10 11:56:51
    438.   El Lay Dave
    Better to be an asset than 60% of an asset.

    It will be a long plane ride home for the team. I'm attending tomorrow, so I hope they come out fired up.

    2007-05-10 11:57:44
    439.   El Lay Dave
    425 I love 'em. Will you deliver to El Segundo?
    2007-05-10 11:58:33
    440.   El Lay Dave
    437 If they go to 12 pitchers AND you want Kemp up, two position players have to depart. Who are you suggesting?
    2007-05-10 12:01:48
    441.   Westernmost in Flavor
    430
    Let me clarify. It was not a tailor-made double play ball because it was a fairly soft hit. A great play might have gotten the double play but imho I didn't think the Dodgers would have turned it.
    2007-05-10 12:02:28
    442.   bhsportsguy
    438 I am going to the game too, and I sit right behind home plate in the infield reserve section.

    If you want some DT poster chat, let me know.

    2007-05-10 12:06:22
    443.   BlueCrew Bruin
    I'll be there as well, however I'll be busy tending to my nosebleed in the top deck.
    2007-05-10 12:06:52
    444.   LeeLacy
    420
    Your complaint reminds of the "Seinfeld" episode where Kramer's futile attempts to get the postal service to stop delivering junk mail to address finally lead him to blurt out: "Oh, that's it! They have gone too far! They keep pushing me and pushing me. Now I got no choice but to go down there ... and talk to them."
    2007-05-10 12:07:04
    445.   bhsportsguy
    Maybe Jeff Weaver is getting paid by the run.

    In 6 starts he has given up 7 runs twice, 6 runs three times (including today) and 3 runs but that was in 3 innings of work. He now has an ERA over 14.

    2007-05-10 12:07:28
    446.   Bob Timmermann
    437
    Apple fritters lose their flavor when being faxed.

    But if anyone wants it, speak up now.

    2007-05-10 12:07:34
    447.   BlueCrew Bruin
    ...although I might be able to find time to chuck a beach ball down to you. :)
    2007-05-10 12:07:57
    448.   bhsportsguy
    443 We can always talk UCLA recruiting. :)
    2007-05-10 12:11:58
    449.   Bob Timmermann
    Part of the apple fritter has been spoken for, aka consumed.
    2007-05-10 12:19:17
    450.   El Lay Dave
    442 I'm in IF reserved too, don't know where, the tix are at will call. I'll be there with the family. My e-mail is my handle with the spaces removed at yahoo dot com.
    Show/Hide Comments 451-500
    2007-05-10 12:19:53
    451.   Bluebleeder87
    I was watching the game. I don't think Betemit could have turned two on that play.

    it depends on who was running i thought he had a 50/50 chance on converting it & at least getting the head runner.

    2007-05-10 12:20:20
    452.   El Lay Dave
    449 simultaneous use of trachea and esophagus, nice.
    2007-05-10 12:27:00
    453.   underdog
    440 No, sorry, I meant if they decide to not add an extra pitcher then they should replace Valdez with Kemp. Otherwise it will likely be Valdez for Brazoban or Kuo. Yeah, I don't know who else could go if they want to add another position player unless someone else gets hurt. La Roche has options of course, but it seems he isn't going anywhere for awhile. So it's going to take an injury, or a trade.
    2007-05-10 12:27:36
    454.   bhsportsguy
    Jrue Holliday has narrowed his choices to Washington and UCLA according to LA Times.

    His mother is going to contact Howland to set up a visit.

    Holliday is the 2nd or 3rd best player in the 2007-2008 class.

    This announcement came out during the game so I guess again karma for one spoiled karma for the other.

    2007-05-10 12:29:39
    455.   Disabled List
    446 449 E-mail the rest to me.
    2007-05-10 12:31:40
    456.   Greg Brock
    454 Getting Holliday, fresh off getting Gordon, would be unbelieveable.

    And then there's that Love fella we nabbed. Good times in Westwood.

    2007-05-10 12:33:32
    457.   trainwreck
    454
    He is for sure second best and I really think he is going to choose UCLA. Romar dropped the ball big time. Having that bad of a year and he is already going to lose Hawes and I think Pondexter and Brockman may be gone after next year. Jrue wants to play for a winner and be surrounded by talent.
    2007-05-10 12:37:16
    458.   Xeifrank
    Just read the LA Times write-up on today's game and noticed the story about the NFL wanting to add a 17th game and have each teams extra game be played outside the US. Getting rid of one of the pre-season games seems like the best route to take. vr, Xei
    2007-05-10 12:44:34
    459.   Vishal
    [456] ugh, how depressing.
    2007-05-10 12:47:26
    460.   bhsportsguy
    San Diego loses third straight to Atlanta, going home to face the Cards.

    Dodgers and Padres both go 3-4 on the road.

    2007-05-10 12:50:11
    461.   El Lay Dave
    442 If only my DT t-shirt had already arrived.... ;)
    2007-05-10 12:50:41
    462.   trainwreck
    lol I am really happy Holiday has already decided to spurn Roy. Tired of that guy grabbing California recruits.
    2007-05-10 12:51:35
    463.   trainwreck
    461
    I totally forgot about my shirt.
    2007-05-10 12:53:13
    464.   bhsportsguy
    Jon, you might want to check out Joe Sheehan's column in BP today, he could have taken is argument about relievers from last year's DT column.
    2007-05-10 12:54:45
    465.   Benaiah
    Espn rates the "pitchers you'd pay to watch." No Dodger starter made the list, and then no Dodger reliever made the list. Apparently people would rather see Trevor Hoffman and Francisco Corredero than Saito and Broxton. Ugly. Broxton > Zumaya, especially now that the Guitar Hero hero is hurt.
    2007-05-10 12:55:02
    466.   Benaiah
    465 - http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2865873
    2007-05-10 12:55:42
    467.   imperabo
    Man, there was a game on? I didn't even know. Looks like my boy Pierre was the lone bright spot today with half of the team's times on base and 2 steals. But it shows you value of small ball when he has one of his best games as a Dodger and produces no runs.
    2007-05-10 12:58:34
    468.   Vishal
    [462] california recruits should go to the university of california. :P
    2007-05-10 13:02:13
    469.   bhsportsguy
    468 Ben Braun is very thankful that Tedford is there.
    2007-05-10 13:06:47
    470.   bhsportsguy
    At least they are not claiming that their product in non-fat.

    http://tinyurl.com/2sdfdl

    2007-05-10 13:06:58
    471.   trainwreck
    Could be seeing Montgomery there after next season.
    2007-05-10 13:14:30
    472.   Andrew Shimmin
    Even if the chances of winning that game really would have been better with the bases loaded and one out, it's not like they'd have been a whole lot better. Once you've got runners reached second and third it was very likely that the Dodgers were going to lose it. Not that it particularly excuses Grittle (was anybody up in the pen?), but I'm pretty sanguine about that game. You lose when you get shut out.

    Even though they've been shut out twice in the past week, they're not on pace to be shut out more often this year than last. They are on pace to get shut out four or five fewer times than the 2003 team did.

    2007-05-10 13:15:13
    473.   Westernmost in Flavor
    469
    I don't see how Tedford will stay if Berkeley keeps blocking the new stadium. Jim Bartko did a quick turnaround and came back to Oregon when he found out how bad things are. I expect Tedford to take the first legitimate offer he gets. He might be Mike Bellotti's replacement if Bellotti decides to hang it up anytime soon.
    2007-05-10 13:16:32
    474.   trainwreck
    Going by Scout's ratings...

    UCLA has three top 25 players players committed already. They will give out two more scholarships and most of their targets are also top 25 players. The 09' class is already looking like a potential power class, so UCLA could have back-to-back number 1 recruiting classes.

    2007-05-10 13:18:42
    475.   Benaiah
    472 - 4 or 5 times doesn't sound like much, but I bet that is like 30-40% more than usual.
    2007-05-10 13:26:28
    476.   Andrew Shimmin
    Times shutout by Year

    2006- 9
    2005- 9
    2004- 12
    2003- 13
    2002- 13
    2001- 8

    2007-05-10 13:33:02
    477.   Benaiah
    476 - Since you lose 100% of all shutouts, 4-5 extra shutouts is pretty huge. I am surprised that there were so many shutouts in 2004. It must have been a feast or famine team with one great hitter and a bunch of average to slightly above average guys around him.
    2007-05-10 13:44:30
    478.   bhsportsguy
    Who has bigger bragging rights, Benjie Molina for hitting two homers in one inning or Jose Molina stealing home as part of a double steal?
    2007-05-10 13:57:54
    479.   trainwreck
    Letting Jose Molina steal home on you must be quite embarrassing.
    2007-05-10 14:05:25
    480.   Jon Weisman
    New post up top.

    Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.