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Jason Schmidt has fallen under the Dreaded Dodger Labrum Curse, reports Ken Gurnick of MLB.com (and everyone else):
Dodgers right-hander Jason Schmidt is out for the season after surgery Wednesday to repair three separate areas of damage in his right shoulder.
Dr. Neal ElAttrache at the Kerlan-Jobe Clinic, in an arthroscopic procedure, repaired a labral tear, a frayed bicep tendon and cleaned up scarring in the bursa sac, according to trainer Stan Conte, who said he's hopeful Schmidt will be pitching by next Spring Training.
Although the club had said it did not know what to expect going into the exploratory surgery, Conte said the labral tear was not anticipated and was the most severe of the three injuries.
"It must grow back to the bone, so the rehab process slows down," he said. "We anticipated that the labrum did not need to be reattached, but it did."
The labrum is cartilage that forms a cup in the ball-and-socket shoulder joint, allowing the head of the upper arm a wide range of motion. The tear, common among pitchers, is at the posterior rim of the shoulder socket. The bicep tendon attaches into the shoulder socket and the bursa decreases friction between tendon and bone.
Conte said the bursa inflammation is the only one of the injuries that showed up conclusively on an MRI done in April, but the belief is that the combination caused Schmidt's dramatic loss of velocity from last year.
Schmidt can now check the Dodger Thoughts archives for previous labrum discussions.
"The Shawn Green of Old Will Not Return," October 19, 2003
"LaRoche Labrum Lamentably Lame," June 17, 2006
As far as Ned Colletti doing due dilligence before signing Schmidt, Gurnick reported him saying that Schmidt passed a battery of physical exams. "You look at the MRIs," Colletti said, "and they're almost identical if you go back a few years."
Update: Here's what I wrote on January 9:
On the pitching side, Jason Schmidt makes me a little uneasy because I feel he's a guy with wear and tear, but if he's on the mound he should be good, and he (along with Randy Wolf) adds to this depth equation. I don't know what the starting rotation will be or how much it will fluctuate, but I think that the odds are that the Dodgers will have five good starting pitchers.I also consider as an offseason move the new hirings in the medical staff. I have no idea how this will play out, but the team's recent history this decade of rushing people back onto the field, only to see them get hurt again, has nowhere to go but up. So I'm hoping change is for the better. But again, we wait and see. If you've been reading this site for a while, you know that "maybe good, maybe not" is considered a better answer than being sure about something you can't really be sure of. Just consider it burnishing the cat. (You do the math.)
Update 2: Eric Enders reminds us of this 2004 Will Carroll article in Slate:
The leading minds in baseball medicine are flummoxed by the labrum. Doctors can't agree on how to detect a tear, don't know the best way to fix one, and aren't sure why, almost without fail, a torn labrum will destroy a pitcher's career.
Leading baseball surgeon Dr. James Andrews estimates that 85 percent of pitchers make a full recovery after an ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction, aka the once risky Tommy John surgery. (USA Today has even called the surgery the "pitcher's best friend.") But if pitchers with torn labrums were horses, they'd be destroyed. Of the 36 major-league hurlers diagnosed with labrum tears in the last five years, only midlevel reliever Rocky Biddle has returned to his previous level. Think about that when your favorite pitcher comes down with labrum trouble: He has a 3 percent chance of becoming Rocky Biddle. More likely, he'll turn into Mike Harkey, Robert Person, or Jim Parque, pitchers who lost stamina and velocity and a major-league career when their labrums began to fray. ...
Pitchers with torn labrums will have to wait a while longer for their Tommy John surgery. So far, the message from the nation's orthopedic surgeons is: We can't rebuild them. Dr. Anthony Tropiano, a top baseball arm doc, says the best available treatment option today is to do nothing. "We call it conservative treatment," he says, "but that's just a euphemism for a little rehab and a lot of prayer."
In other words, short of a breakthrough, the Jason Schmidt of old will not return. Just as was the case with Green, there's a difference between being done and being diminished. We don't know that Schmidt is done, but barring a breakthrough, he may well be diminished.
It sounds like we're going to have to eat the whole contract, though, which really stinks. At least it's just three years.
WWSH
But it's better than nothing, no? If I remember the info you posted correctly, the only sure-proof way is to actually do exploratory surgery, which is of course impractical as a routine diagnostic operation.
WWSH
We may not be far off from a time when teams won't sign contracts until they've had a chance to literally "scope" a pitcher out and see the condition of his shoulders.
I do have a feeling Ned will get raked over the coals for this one, which will be undserved. But that's okay, because it'll even out the Pierre deal, for which he's gotten a free pass but deserved to be raked over the coals.
That's how I feel, at least. Bad luck.
"But Schmidt is still above-average through and through, and might well help form a perfect bridge between the Dodgers' veteran starters and the up-and-comers like Billingsley, Kuo, Scott Elbert and Clayton Kershaw."
On January 9, I wrote, "On the pitching side, Jason Schmidt makes me a little uneasy because I feel he's a guy with wear and tear, but if he's on the mound he should be good."
But it might not. It's still before the trading deadline. Colletti might decide he needs another reprise of the Tomko/Hendrickson experience, or even worse, might trade for yet another mediocre veteran.
So why might we consider the $47M handed over to Schmidt a good thing at all? Well, maybe, just maybe, that sunk cost will constrain Colletti and force him to go with the cheaper option (young guys), thus making the right decision for the wrong reason.
I don't blame Colletti for Schmidt. It was a reasonable gamble, and the price was what the market demanded. But I've little doubt that had he whiffed on Schmidt, we'd have another Hendrickson/Tomko type wasting space on the roster, and I'm hoping that an unexpected bout of smallmarketitis (i.e., we can't spend Schmidt's money twice) might leave the door open for the kids.
We should have a decent stable of young arms in the lower minors percolating by this time next year if morris comes back strong and blair is signed.
6 games, 25 innings pitched, 1 win, 47 million dollars.
Well played, Jason Schmidt. Well played, indeed.
vr, Xei
The odds certainly aren't in his favor.
A) Very smart, isn't a big payroll nice?
B) Prudent, but I'd rather see Billz anyways
C) Ehh, he's now 1 for 2 signing FA pitchers
D) Bring me the head of Juan Pierre!
Or he's pining for the fjords.
A partial tear is a different story, but one that still presents very long odds. We don't know yet if Schmidt's tear is a partial or complete one. In either case, I think we would have to be very pleasantly surprised if Schmidt ever pitches another major league game.
Here's a Will Carroll article on labrum tears:
http://www.slate.com/id/2100895/
That said, here are a couple of relevant passages from the article in 20:
"If pitchers with torn labrums were horses, they'd be destroyed. Of the 36 major-league hurlers diagnosed with labrum tears in the last five years, only midlevel reliever Rocky Biddle has returned to his previous level. Think about that when your favorite pitcher comes down with labrum trouble: He has a 3 percent chance of becoming Rocky Biddle. More likely, he'll turn into Mike Harkey, Robert Person, or Jim Parque, pitchers who lost stamina and velocityand a major-league careerwhen their labrums began to fray."
"Pitchers with torn labrums will have to wait a while longer for their [version of] Tommy John surgery. So far, the message from the nation's orthopedic surgeons is: We can't rebuild them. Dr. Anthony Tropiano, a top baseball arm doc, says the best available treatment option today is to do nothing. 'We call it conservative treatment,' he says, 'but that's just a euphemism for a little rehab and a lot of prayer.'"
Not that I have any hope of getting it right if present company couldn't.
Dr. Tropiano doesn't know about the "no euphemisms" rule on DT. And that makes zero sense. Schmidt has dropped down to 83-85 mph. He rehabs and prays, but still won't gain any velocity back. Thus, after all this rehab, he'll still sit at 83-85 mph on the gun.
For all intents and purposes, Schmidt is done.
"When asked to comment on the reported racial divide, Omar Minaya denied that any such rift existed and announced a blockbuster trade
- Wright, Glavine, LoDuca, Greene, and Maine to the Dodgers for Rudy Seanez, Omedo Saenz, Luiz Gonzalez and 10 cans of beans."
http://tinyurl.com/2b8qvs
GoBears isn't dead. He's just restin'. Beautiful plumage...
mo vaughan in an angels uniform keeps flashing into my mind...
A Lumberjack!
30 Does Schmidt have suspenders and a bra?
I would be shocked if there was coverage on Schmidt. He's done, we're paying for it, and that's that.
http://tinyurl.com/32xl2e
I'm pretty sure they'd be fired first. Firing somebody who has already been killed would be completely pointless.
I guess we'll find out soon enough. I can imagine not insuring Pierre, since, who cares. But, the same reasons Schmidt would be difficult to insure are the ones for why he ought to have been. like I said, I don't actually know anything about this.
It's not like Jason Schmidt never had injury problems. And it's not like Schmidt is 27 years old. Show me the underwriter who approved Jason Schmidt coverage, and I'll show you a terrible insurance salesman.
I can't imagine being an insurance salesman. Now imagine being bad at it. Wow. When you can't even be good at selling insurance, it might be time to give up breathing.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2728
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_20020811/ai_n10802839
"DL payroll keeps swelling"
Injuries hurt the bottom line for most teams
August '02
The Giants are the envy of baseball, logging a mere 400 player disability days per year compared with a league average of 914 in 2001. With that kind of record, the team has decided not to insure its players, preferring instead to pay disability out of normal operating expenses.
Much of the Giants' success avoiding injury can be traced to team trainer Stan Conte, who devised a strength and conditioning regimen that emphasizes hitting rather than home-run hitting, despite the fact that the team has one of the game's most prolific power hitters in Barry Bonds.
"Our objective is not to hit the ball farther, but to get the batter to the batter's box 600 times a season," said Conte. "Our objective is not performance enhancement. We hope that performance enhancement is a nice side effect of injury prevention."
I'm going with "Yes".
From nw on successful labrum reconstruction will be refered to as "Jason Schmidt" Surgery.
Doesn't ring quite like "Tommy John", does it? Oh well.
Why would this logic not carry over to Colletti?
Insurance companies are now only covering the first 3 years of contract. If Colletti could not get insurance should he have offered the contract?
http://tinyurl.com/26nj5j
If the Dodgers are going to rely on pitching and defense maybe they should put their best defense on the field.
I like the current rotation in theory. In practice though it is more inconsistent than it would have been with a healthy Schmidt (which is a theory too).
We know that Wolf and Kuo are talented inconsistent and it remains to be seen how Billz handles starting. That's a lot of rotation to be uncertain about.
1. Schmidt done
2. Elbert done
3. Orenduff and McGrew scuffling upon returns from arm surgery
4. Greg Miller doing his best Ankiel imitation without the bat to fall back on.
5. Yhancy came and went so fast we'd have missed him if he hadn't gotten so fat.
6. Tsoa was brilliant and then back to the DL. Maybe he'll return as good or not
7. Kuo put up a lousier line then Tomko or Hendrickson have ever put up in their lives.
Also, I was kinda surprised at the general support here for the Schmidt signing. Many folks see a 32 year-old position player as entering a stage of rapid decline, yet the signing of a 34-year old pitcher was met with general optimism.
I guess we all wanted to see it work.
In the previous thread, Greg Brock said that a labrum tear would have showed up on a physical so I'm certainly not going to take his word for it.
59, labrum tears are final for pitchers, not position players.
I just said I'd be shocked if he was insured. And I would be. I didn't claim to know for sure. But insuring Schmidt sure looks pretty dumb now, doesn't it?
Before we do much more conjencture we really ought to let the insurance experts make their voices heard instead of those who just think they know how the insurance industry works in the sports community.
Can you tell who I work for?
Never claimed to be an expert.[/sigh]
Golds Gym?
Which begs the question: will Steve make one in the future...?
Jason Schmidt: pitcher. A man barely alive.
Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to make the world's first bionic man. Jason Schmidt will be that man. Better than he was before. Better...stronger...faster.
If Banacek were on the case, we'd all find out Jason Schmidt never really existed. That's how the bad guys almost always stole the incredibly large objects that were in public display.
However, I've seen Jason Schmidt in a Dodger uniform and playing. Last year, I had a rare Bill Mueller sighting.
And I'm using a ticket with Jason Schmidt's picture on it as a bookmark right now.
Escobar might be a better example but then he and Lowe might not qualify as a big free agent signing.
Greg Maddux when he went from the Cubs to the Braves. More then 10 years ago but quite successful.
Your premise is accurate, it takes a lot of digging to find any real success stories that show a pitcher earning his money every year of the contract, big ticket free agent pitching disasters like Hampton seem to be more of the norm then success like Lowe and Maddux.
They traded for Pedro and then extended him so it doesn't count.
Yankee's traded for Clemens but his deal for Toronto before he was traded would certainly go in the plus column. Not sure about the Astro contracts given the price.
Pettite was not very succsesful for the Astro's given the price and production.
Mussina, average but hard for me to put him in the plus column.
Randy Johnson in the beginning was a huge plus for Arizona but he was so overpaid they gave him away to NY at the end of the deal.
I thinnk Jason was looking for someone who finished his contract and was worth the whole contract not just the first few years but maybe I'm just putting words in his mouth.
http://www.standard.net/live/news/106572/
I thought we weren't allowed to mention "fullpack".
Oh, and I would like to see Kemp and Ethier in the corner spots today.
69. I don't think it is dumb at all. In order for the Dodgers to collect on the Dreifort insurance, he had to be completely unable to pitch for the entire year, any attempt lost them that year's payout. It is extremely rare for that to happen, but you know that they will occur, so as long as you have your portfolio structured correctly, it doesn't really matter if you have to pay out for 1 or 2 years of Schmidt. You are looking at it from a one-off basis (and the complete dismissal of people who sell insurance is pretty jerky, especially since it is an absurdly complex industry, even from the sales and underwriting side) rather than a portfolio basis.
IP Walks K's
72.2 51 34
Can you even imagine the DT day after if this happened today. It would make the JP caterwauling seem mild by comparison.
92 Schmidt and Zito were supposedly the top FA pitchers this offseason. The contrasting merits of the 2 were, rougly,
-Zito - in his prime and durable, consistent if unspectacular
-Schmidt - better overall pitcher, commands shorter overall deal and less money, moderate to major injury risk
I think a lot of people liked Schmidt's deal, starting with the premise that it'd be nice to have one of those 2 guys, and probably better not to have Zito, given the type of deal he got.
If Bills lives up to his potential, Schmidt may become a relatively minor footnote--but a pricey one.
Plus, we have a new Bionic Woman show in the works next year.
"Banacek" was Ralph Manza's tour de force.
If there's one thing I hate, it's remakes of old TV shows. I wish people weren't stupid enough to render such endeavors profitable.
With remakes, it's all about what you bring to the table. If you're doing it for cheap nostalgia value, then you're right, it's pointless. If you believe that you can tell the story in a new way, or that the old story has a special relevance to the current times, a remake can be a great thing.
Come on, you would have more credibility if you started out with "If there's one thing I enjoy" since you seem to hate just about everything. Your to young to be such a curmudgeon.
Vehemently.
M*A*S*H
Oh wait, you meant the other way around... Star Trek, of course!
http://tinyurl.com/3cpy6r
I know that Ned would never actually pick him up. But in my fantasy world, Pierre is on the bench and Bradley is in center.
Rats... But at least I got the Milton news first.
110. That is what I was referring to in the first sentence about British TV shows (also All in the Family and other Norman Lear shows).
112. That is actually the one category I didn't refer to. I referred to TV shows made from old TV shows and movies made from old TV shows, but not TV shows made from movies.
"The A's have just sent out a release that they have designated outfielder Milton Bradley for assignment and have called up infielder Kevin Melillo from Triple-A Sacramento.
There is no further information yet; GM Billy Beane is expected to talk to reporters later today. One possibility is that the A's believe that Bradley will clear waivers (very possible, considering his injury history); another is that they have a possible deal in place to trade Bradley; or perhaps, with some roster crunches looming, the team has just decided to part ways early with a player who has spent much time on the DL and who will be a free agent next season.
There are any number of possible reasons, really. It's tough to speculate. The one thing that has been the case during Bradley's A's tenure: He repeatedly has said how comfortable he feels in the clubhouse and how much he enjoys playing for the A's. If this is a situation in which he does move on, for whatever reason, he cannot be too happy about it. Oakland has been a nice spot for Bradley."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=21&entry_id=17844
Mike (SLO, California): Will, do you know if the Dodgers got insurance on Schmidt?
Will Carroll: I hinted at this before ... more of a joke than a hint. I don't believe they did, though I do not know for certain. I do know that his shoulder was a pre-existing condition, so it's very unlikely that it was covered.
So my non-expert guess wasn't so stupid.
Ahem.
Wow, the news about Bradley is... crazy. Yeah, definitely read Ken's post about it.
Gosh, in a more perfect world, he'd be playing center for us, and, uh, not with so many emotional problems or injury issues. Er, well at least Juan doesn't have either of those.
YOU regret the error? Wonder how the Expos felt? ;-)
I don't know the details, but as a small market team maybe they felt they wouldn't be able to afford him anyhow. Montreal paid him $3,615,000 his last year with them, more than a 10-bagger from the previous year's $315K . His first year with the RedSox the tab went to $7.57M, with much more to come.
But the Expos could have had a clue what might happen, tho maybe not to the degree it did. His last year as an Expo he went 17-8, 241 IP, 158 hits, 305 SO, 1.9 ERA, +221 ERA, .0932 WHIP.
Montreal traded him for Carl Pavano and a PTBN, aka Tony Armas. If there had been an ExposThoughts blog over the next few years, maybe they would have had a CT (Carl & Tony)4P commenter. But then he probably wouldn't have compared to DT's D4P.
Pedro's Dodger salary in '93 was $119,000.
VORP
Bradley: 5.4 in 71 PAs
Pierre; 0.8 in 304
Quite clever.
Gosh, do you think Beane's trying to trade Bradley? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
easy to say in hindsight" are generally lead balloons. Schmidt highlights the ongoing struggle to identify just how much the "science" of baseball decisions can augment the "art' of same.
Ned, if I can trust a quote I read in today's LAT, seems to seek refuge in the artless, "...
the MRIs looked essentially the same." Words from his worst PR self. If a faraway witness like I am had serious negative reaction to the possibility of this signing (and, once made, used it to stay away from any nonsense about the "best starting staff in the NL"), and if Jon could make a list of cautions about the guy's key body parts, and if Stan Conte (oooo
oooops!!!!), then Ned can't get away with the consequences of this awful deal anymore than previous Dodger (or current Met) GMs can, with regard to the term "fragility" which will often, ironically, be easily pierced by art, especially pre-surgery. Add this to Ned and Company's growing list of negative transactions, though I do like the train of thought (since I took a ride on my own) that there's a potential silver lining - the essentially dead contract may be enough of an anchor to keep said company from more foolish mistakes, and give the youngsters a chance to reinvigorate Saint Logan's listing canonization
voyage.
I read from a poster who, I think, cosistently believes in the augmenting science too much, thus discrediting it when it might gain, the Yanks and Giants and Cubs should, by New Baseball Alchemy, have a handful more wins than they do. Having seen all these Too-Much-T-ball squads in action this season, and the kind of pratfall-ball they bring, play after play, inning after inning, it's only amazing they don't have more losses than the record swears.
Luck is not much a player there...
Langwitch: Between is for two, among is for more than that. Notwithstanding is only one...
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