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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Are Dodger Pitchers Good Enough, Enough?
2007-07-09 15:07
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

A game score of 50 or better by a starting pitcher gives the Dodgers an authoritative chance of winning a game. (See the end of this post to see just how authoritative.) So how often do Dodger pitchers get those game scores?

Caution: The following is not hard science.

Game scores, defined by Bill James, attempt to quantify a starting pitcher's performance in a given game. They are calculated in the following manner:

Start with 50 points. Add 1 point for each out recorded, (or 3 points per inning). Add 2 points for each inning completed after the 4th. Add 1 point for each strikeout. Subtract 2 points for each hit allowed. Subtract 4 points for each earned run allowed. Subtract 2 points for each unearned run allowed. Subtract 1 point for each walk.

Keep in mind that Game Scores are not adjusted for park effects, quality of opponent, health or rest. But with those caveats, you can still get an idea of how consistently effective Dodger starting pitchers have been.

To generalize, a game score of 45 puts you in the neighborhood of a quality start (minimum of six innings pitched, maximum of three earned runs allowed). However, a 45 could easily mean that for the Dodgers to win that game, the bullpen has to pitch shutout ball or the offense will have to score, say, five runs or more. Both of those things are doable but hardly automatic. So for some, game scores of 50 or even 60 will be what's relevant.
Here's how the 2007 game scores break down for Dodger starters (listed in order of starts made):

Derek Lowe (19 starts): 21, 64, 68, 29, 46, 42, 75, 66, 36, 56, 62, 74, 62, 78, 75, 56, 59, 52, 38
00s: 0
10s: 0
20s: 2
30s: 2
40s: 2
50s: 3
60s: 5
70s: 4
80s: 0
Starts at 40 or above: 14 out of 19 (74 percent)
Starts at 50 or above: 12 out of 19 (63 percent)
Starts at 60 or above: 9 out of 19 (47 percent)
Comment: Lowe has provided a quality start roughly two-thirds of the time. He should have a better record.

Brad Penny (18 starts): 53, 68, 62, 49, 47, 66, 81, 64, 19, 67, 68, 40, 72, 66, 65, 72, 68, 21
00s: 0
10s: 1
20s: 1
30s: 0
40s: 3
50s: 1
60s: 9
70s: 2
80s: 1
Starts at 40 or above: 16 out of 18 (89 percent)
Starts at 50 or above: 13 out of 18 (72 percent)
Starts at 60 or above: 12 out of 18 (67 percent)
Comment: Not only has Penny been near-perfect in providing quality starts, he has pitched exceptionally two-thirds of the time.

Randy Wolf (18 starts): 46, 62, 54, 65, 45, 26, 58, 80, 51, 64, 69, 38, 34, 45, 35, 41, 50, 22
00s: 0
10s: 0
20s: 2
30s: 3
40s: 4
50s: 4
60s: 4
70s: 0
80s: 1
Starts at 40 or above: 13 out of 18 (72 percent)
Starts at 50 or above: 9 out of 18 (50 percent)
Starts at 60 or above: 5 out of 18 (28 percent)
Comment: Wolf scored 45 or better in 10 of his first 11 starts of 2007 – then only twice in his most recent seven before going on the disabled list.

Mark Hendrickson (10 starts): 56, 61, 72, 36, 35, 35, 37, 29, 49, 56
00s: 0
10s: 0
20s: 1
30s: 4
40s: 1
50s: 2
60s: 1
70s: 1
80s: 0
Starts at 40 or above: 5 out of 10 (50 percent)
Starts at 50 or above: 4 out of 10 (40 percent)
Starts at 60 or above: 2 out of 10 (20 percent)
Comment: This is Hendrickson – pitching well at times, but also pitching poorly more frequently than a Dodger starter should. That being said, scoring 45 or better half the time has its value.

Brett Tomko (8 starts): 76, 36, 45, 50, 35, 56, 7, 36
00s: 1
10s: 0
20s: 0
30s: 3
40s: 1
50s: 2
60s: 0
70s: 1
80s: 0
Starts at 40 or above: 4 out of 8 (50 percent)
Starts at 50 or above: 3 out of 8 (38 percent)
Starts at 60 or above: 1 out of 8 (13 percent)
Comment: Similar scores as Hendrickson – despite that one truly awful appearance. As Clark Kellogg might say, Tomko as a starter had "spurtability" – in the positive and negative sense.

Hong-Chih Kuo (6 starts): 47, 66, 66, 10, 55, 22
00s: 0
10s: 1
20s: 1
30s: 0
40s: 1
50s: 1
60s: 2
70s: 0
80s: 0
Starts at 40 or above: 4 out of 6 (67 percent)
Starts at 50 or above: 3 out of 6 (50 percent)
Starts at 60 or above: 2 out of 6 (33 percent)
Comment: As we go from small sample sizes to infinitesimal, the question with Kuo is whether his two dogmeat starts reflect poor health or factors he can control.

Jason Schmidt (6 starts): 59, 40, 20, 71, 21, 40
00s: 0
10s: 0
20s: 2
30s: 0
40s: 2
50s: 1
60s: 0
70s: 1
80s: 0
Starts at 40 or above: 4 out of 6 (67 percent)
Starts at 50 or above: 2 out of 6 (33 percent)
Starts at 60 or above: 1 out of 6 (17 percent)
Comment: What might have been …

Chad Billingsley (4 starts): 48, 33, 80, 45
00s: 0
10s: 0
20s: 0
30s: 1
40s: 2
50s: 0
60s: 0
70s: 0
80s: 1
Starts at 40 or above: 3 out of 4 (75 percent)
Starts at 50 or above: 1 out of 4 (25 percent)
Starts at 60 or above: 1 out of 4 (25 percent)
Comment: The only active Dodger starting pitcher who can avoid dipping below the 30 mark this season.

Leaders
40 or above:
Penny, 89 percent
Billingsley, 75 percent
Lowe, 74 percent
Wolf, 72 percent
Kuo, 67 percent
Schmidt, 67 percent
Hendrickson, 50 percent
Tomko, 50 percent
Team: 63 of 89, 71 percent

50 or above:
Penny, 72 percent
Lowe, 63 percent
Kuo, 50 percent
Wolf, 50 percent
Hendrickson, 40 percent
Tomko, 38 percent
Schmidt, 33 percent
Billingsley, 25 percent
Team: 47 of 89, 53 percent

60 or above:
Penny, 67 percent
Lowe, 47 percent
Kuo, 33 percent
Wolf, 28 percent
Hendrickson, 20 percent
Schmidt, 17 percent
Tomko, 13 percent
Billingsley, 25 percent
Team: 33 of 89, 37 percent

By the way, the Dodgers are 37-10 (.787) when their starting pitchers score 50 or better and 29-4 (.878) when they score 60 or better.

If Wolf and Kuo can get healthy and Billingsley can kick it up just a notch as he settles back into his former role, the Dodgers would have five starting pitchers who could put the team in strong position to win more than half the time – even with some slippage from Penny or Lowe. I count three ifs there, but as ifs go, they seem on the smallish side.

Update: How Penny turned things around, according to Lyle Spencer of MLB.com:

The big right-hander went on to deal for the Dodgers in the second half, but something wasn't quite right. Guys were turning on too many pitches.

It got back to him from inside sources - hitters who used to be teammates, mainly - that his windup was giving hitters an edge. He'd do something different in his delivery when he was getting ready to throw breaking balls, and word of things like that spread like a Southern California brushfire through the fraternity of batsmen.

Determined to eliminate this problem, Penny returned to a delivery he'd used early last season - bringing his arms all the way back behind his head, rather than stopping at his cap. This seemed to strip hitters of that little edge they'd found, and the big man is back in dominating form. He ranks right there with San Diego's dominant duo of Jake Peavy and Chris Young in the ERA race while moving along at a 20-win pace. He's 10-1 with a 2.39 ERA, trailing Young (2.00) and Peavy (2.19), who gets the start this time.

"I had a lot of people tell me in the spring that I'm tipping my pitches the other way," he said, wisely choosing not to identify the traitors to the hitting fraternity. "So I'm back to bringing my hands over my head. I started the season last year doing [that], and went away from it."

I just hope the faternity of batsmen survived the fire.

Comments (227)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-07-09 15:33:42
1.   moodhairboy
I am continually amazed at how much I learn from this blog. Thanks for the insight Jon it is appreciated here in Orlando.
2007-07-09 15:36:49
2.   underdog
This is indeed really useful to look at - thanks Jon! If I had to put this all into a nutshell, I'd say it's about what I expected to hear about how their pitching's been, and that there's considerable room for improvement and it hasn't been too bad overall (but that quite a few of their best starts came earlier in the season). I agree with your last paragraph, except I still consider Kuo to be a larger "If" than a smallish one. I'm rooting for him to come back and help, but don't trust him all that much.
2007-07-09 15:47:57
3.   Bob Timmermann
I doubt that Kuo will ever pitch an effective game for the Dodgers again.
2007-07-09 15:48:56
4.   kngoworld
3
Bold statement.
2007-07-09 15:51:20
5.   Bob Timmermann
Indeed it is
2007-07-09 15:52:30
6.   GoBears
3 You think he's trade fodder? Or injured beyond repair?
2007-07-09 15:53:04
7.   Bob Timmermann
6
The latter. Which would make him the former.
2007-07-09 15:53:53
8.   Sammy Maudlin
Kuo has elbow pain and he has already had two Tommy John surgerys. Doesn't look promising for Kuo. Awesome post!
2007-07-09 16:05:29
9.   CanuckDodger
Now that we know Kuo was pitching hurt in those two games (only two) in which he sucked, that reflects better on him than if he just lost his talent. The injury is a minor one; it has nothing to do with his Tommy John surgeries. Kuo should be back in the rotation as soon as he is able, and he really is a better pitcher than we are likely to get in trade at anything like an acceptable price in talent surrendered.
2007-07-09 16:06:54
10.   GoBears
Too bad. I'd heard about the elbow pain, but hadn't heard it linked to the 2 TJs. It's a natural link to draw, but has anyone with any authority (or inside scoop) actually drawn it?
2007-07-09 16:09:15
11.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not disparaging Kuo's ability, but I'm just not optimistic that a pitcher with his medical history will ever be an effective pitcher. There's only so much that can be fixed.
2007-07-09 16:11:46
12.   Xeifrank
at what score do the Dodgers have a .500 record? vr, Xei
2007-07-09 16:13:30
13.   Xeifrank
9. Yes, I read that too. The injury has nothing to do with the TJ surgery.

11. He was an effective pitcher last year.

vr, Xei

2007-07-09 16:24:17
14.   bryanf
Great, great post Jon. I echo the thoughts of 1.

For me, I think our pitching is more about our bullpen. They have been generally so good during this first half that I'm amazed when they faltered (like recently). Seems to me if they can keep it up as well that we'll still be in good shape all things considered...

2007-07-09 16:25:41
15.   GoBears
OK. It's settled. Until Will Carroll tells me otherwise, I choose to be optimistic about Kuo. I shall now put my fingers in my ears (which should make typing a challenge).

Interesting - on a blog, plugging my ears would make me mute.

2007-07-09 16:25:53
16.   Bob Timmermann
I would also be happy to be wrong about Kuo, but I'm just not as sanguine about his chances as others.
2007-07-09 16:27:30
17.   Xeifrank
We are at the 1/10th mark of the Juan Pierre era. To put it in perspective if you were to drive from Dodger Stadium to Las Vegas, after 1/10th of your trip/drive was completed you'd be in the vicinity of Pomona.
vr, Xei
2007-07-09 16:28:47
18.   confucius
The Blue Jays just released Victor Zambrano. I'm afraid Flanders will pick him up.
2007-07-09 16:30:50
19.   confucius
I think that Kuo will pitch again for the Dodgers. I just don't think he'll ever start 20 games on the Dodgers.
2007-07-09 16:31:27
20.   confucius
19 20 games in a season I mean.
2007-07-09 16:32:04
21.   Xeifrank
20. 20 games in a row? :)
vr, Xei
2007-07-09 16:33:36
22.   Bob Timmermann
Can't I be pessimistic just once?
2007-07-09 16:35:14
23.   regfairfield
22 Bob, why do you hate the Dodgers?
2007-07-09 16:39:07
24.   underdog
This was written by the fellow who does the mlbtraderumors.com blog, so it's just an opinion, but I do like checking out his blog once in awhile... Anyway: "The names I think we'll be hearing in trade rumors this month as far as starters: Matt Morris, Kyle Lohse, Jason Jennings, Jon Garland, and Jose Contreras. There should be a few more second or third tier type guys as well (Odalis Perez, Steve Trachsel, Joe Kennedy, Wade Miller, Josh Fogg, Brett Tomko {!- ed.}). I would not be surprised to see Oakland become sellers in short order, but they don't have much starting pitching to trade with Rich Harden and Esteban Loaiza injured."
2007-07-09 16:41:43
25.   underdog
Too bad the Dodgers can't trade KC Brady Clark for Odalis Perez, or that trade would have come full, er, semi-circle. Just kidding! The only name on that list that I'd consider worth a flyer on, if they came relatively cheap, would be Kennedy, Contreras and Lohse (but he probably would be overpriced).
2007-07-09 16:50:50
26.   GoBears
Has Jason Jennings fallen off a cliff? He was a decent pitcher in Coors all those years. Unless he's tanked this year, I could be persuaded to be less than homicidal about ol' JJ joining the club. Well, depending on the price. And is Wade Miller toast?
2007-07-09 16:53:57
27.   imperabo
17 Wow, that was depressing. You're obviously a cup 1/10 full kind of guy. I prefer to think that Pierre's future with the Dodgers is 9/10 empty.
2007-07-09 16:54:25
28.   confucius
22 If you ever read a game chat on here you would know that we're a bunch of optimists on this site.
2007-07-09 16:59:19
29.   imperabo
17 But, actually, timewise, after 1/10 of your journey from Dodger Stadium to Vegas you'd still be in Dodger Stadium.
2007-07-09 17:00:01
30.   Lexinthedena
Baseball Tonight just showed a montage of greatest home runs 2001-present....

LA's Four in a row plus Nomar didn't make the cut...

ESPN never ceases to amaze me....

2007-07-09 17:02:31
31.   Jon Weisman
Brad Penny notes added to this post above.
2007-07-09 17:09:04
32.   Jon Weisman
12 - Dodgers are 42-21 with game scores of 40 or better. Now checking the 30s.
2007-07-09 17:12:33
33.   GoBears
31. Interesting. If that were true, however, wouldn't one expect that the descent into gas can would have been a little less precipitous (more like rolling down an ever steepening hill, as opposed to falling off a cliff), as more and more batters got the word? Perhaps a geometric function, as two friends told two friends and so on and so on?

I do seem to recall that the story was that batters were ignoring his off-speed stuff and just waiting for his fastball. Of course, I recall lots of things that aren't true.

2007-07-09 17:12:36
34.   Jon Weisman
Dodgers are 47-28 with game scores of 30 and above. They are 2-12 with game scores of 29 or below.

Strangely, the Dodgers are 5-11 with game scores in the 40s but 5-7 with game scores in the 30s.

2007-07-09 17:15:26
35.   Jon Weisman
Summing up, Dodgers are 37-10 with game scores of 50 and above, 12-30 with game scores of 49 and below.
2007-07-09 17:16:07
36.   Jon Weisman
I think there's an even stronger differential if I make the break at 45.
2007-07-09 17:16:53
37.   Marty
So, when Penny was barking at Shawn Green, he was really sending a message to the fraternity?
2007-07-09 17:23:06
38.   Icaros
I just saw Brad Penny getting a stress-test at one of the many Scientologist outdoor recruiting tables in town!

(just kidding)

2007-07-09 17:31:10
39.   Marty
So, that's Ned's problem. Too many Thetans.
2007-07-09 17:31:43
40.   underdog
Matt Holliday's not hitting like a last minute sub in the Home Run Derby - killing the ball.
2007-07-09 17:32:35
41.   underdog
Er, I jinxed him.
2007-07-09 17:38:55
42.   Icaros
Bonds's voice is more annoying than his persona.

Talk about perma-whine...

2007-07-09 17:45:44
43.   Icaros
I did like when asked about Bud Selig, Bonds said:

"Bud Selig is the Commissioner. I don't know what a Commissioner does."

2007-07-09 17:48:30
44.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Chris Berman takes hyperbole to a whole new stratosphere.

Joe Morgan is Joe Morgan.

Why couldn't they have Ravech, Gammons and Kruk work this thing instead of the stiffs in suits.

2007-07-09 17:50:58
45.   bryanf
44 Courtesy of SoSG...they won't let the Baseball Tonight guys in:

http://tinyurl.com/3c24ar

2007-07-09 17:54:12
46.   underdog
They did let Kenny Mayne use a kayak, however. So he's got that going for him.
2007-07-09 18:00:08
47.   D4P
From what little I've seen of the HR derby thus far, it looks like there's a buncha Juan Pierres out in centerfield.
2007-07-09 18:01:36
48.   Bob Timmermann
What's the point of the new Miller Beer ad campaign?
2007-07-09 18:03:41
49.   Bob Timmermann
And the All-Star Game ad on Fox has been edited to just show players who made it to the game so Jason Giambi and Barry Zito are no longer seen.

Brad Penny just sort of appears.

2007-07-09 18:04:49
50.   Icaros
48

You just mentioned their company name on this blog.

Mission accomplished.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-07-09 18:05:33
51.   underdog
47 Except slightly taller...?

This year's Derby has to be more challenging because of the time of day and the bit of a wind.

2007-07-09 18:06:19
52.   Icaros
50

I guess that isn't actually the company name...the product name.

2007-07-09 18:07:51
53.   Icaros
Those look more like Tim Lincecums in the outfield.
2007-07-09 18:11:29
54.   Bob Timmermann
So what is the point of the very commonly shown new TV commercial campaign for a widely sold brand of beer that is also the name of a baseball stadium in Milwaukee.
2007-07-09 18:13:20
55.   Jon Weisman
54 - I don't know the answer, but I sure could go for a Miller right now.
2007-07-09 18:14:50
56.   bryanf
Mueller?
2007-07-09 18:15:43
57.   D4P
Except slightly taller...?

And some of them are white.

BTW: Is Bob still working on his BART*...?

*Bay Area Related Tirade

2007-07-09 18:17:45
58.   Icaros
55

He's working on his control in AA.

2007-07-09 18:18:57
59.   bryanf
58 I thought he was teaming up with Joe Morgan on ESPN baseball broadcasts.
2007-07-09 18:20:14
60.   D4P
Hopefully one of these years they'll have a camera angle from underground so we can look up at the ball.
2007-07-09 18:27:38
61.   Who Is Karim Garcia
I honestly think Joe Morgan makes me dumber.
2007-07-09 18:28:09
62.   Indiana Jon
53 I have a feeling we'll be seeing real Tim Lincecums at this game for several years in the future. Hard to argue that the Dodgers should have taken him, but I just wish the Giants hadn't.
2007-07-09 18:28:25
63.   Who Is Karim Garcia
60.

Two words... baseball. Cam. Discuss.

2007-07-09 18:31:23
64.   Indiana Jon
63 Too much spin on the ball. A baseball cam would never work. Maybe a bat cam?
2007-07-09 18:38:31
65.   Who Is Karim Garcia
64.

Gyro stabilizer. Maybe even a flux capacitor. Someone will figure it out.

2007-07-09 18:43:26
66.   Joshua Worley
"matter" should be "manner" in the link of the main post, I think

I guess I saw the worst pitched game by a Dodger starter this year, if Tomko's "7" start was the one where he gave up 8 runs.

2007-07-09 18:44:51
67.   trainwreck
UCLA just got a huge football commitment from 6-6 wide receiver Nelson Rosario.
2007-07-09 18:46:41
68.   still bevens
66 Ooh Ooh I was there too. I felt terrible for my friends dad who let us tag along with him to the game. We had nice field level seats and it seemed like a lot of money to spend on a total and complete blowout. This is why I feel like I'm hedged both emotionally and financially when I pay $7 for my regular seats.
2007-07-09 18:53:27
69.   bhsportsguy
67 Why do I bother with the subscription sites?

:)

2007-07-09 18:53:42
70.   Jon Weisman
66 - Thanks.
2007-07-09 19:25:21
71.   trainwreck
If only I got tickets to the All-Star festivities.
2007-07-09 19:42:35
72.   Indiana Jon
Where is the best place online to view updated VORP stats for this season?
2007-07-09 19:43:46
73.   Bob Timmermann
Listening to Vladimir Guerrero's Spanish, I realize that I can barely understand any of it. Much different accent than I'm accustomed to and like a lot of Caribbeans, he speaks very quickly.

The San Francisco diatribe was canceled because I'm sleepy.

2007-07-09 19:44:46
74.   trainwreck
72
Baseball Prospectus (Aren't they only site with VORP?)
2007-07-09 19:45:31
75.   Eric Stephen
48,54 Bob, are you talking about the Miller ads with a delivery men removing their product from stores that charge too much for items such as an $11 hamburger?

My guess is the point is that Miller wants their product to be the only overpriced item in the retail locations in which it is sold. The lead actor is reasonably funny, for what it's worth.

On a HR derby note, Chris Berman just made a Florida recount / hanging chad reference. That was almost seven years ago. Berman has long since outlived his usefulness. The halcyon days of Bert "Be Home" Blyleven and Eric "Sleeping With" Bienemy are long gone.

2007-07-09 19:45:35
76.   trainwreck
73
Yeah, now I know what my Grandma must feel like when I speak English.
2007-07-09 19:47:51
77.   Bob Timmermann
75
Vin Scully made a hanging chad joke on Sunday.
2007-07-09 19:49:56
78.   Bluebleeder87
the Home Run Derby was a lot cooler when guys were juiced
2007-07-09 19:50:50
79.   Indiana Jon
74 Thanks.
2007-07-09 19:51:56
80.   Johnny Nucleo
Great post Jon. As for Penny, I have two questions. One, if he really was tipping his pitches, then isn't it the pitching coach's job to figure that out? It would be incredible if the rest of the league knew something about Penny's pitching patterns that the Dodgers would be oblivious to. Secondly, if this was truly the case, why wouldn't Penny have been tipped off by one of the players acquired in the late season trades (e.g. Anderson, Maddux, Lugo, Betemit, etc.). It's a nice explanation but I'm not sure I buy it.
2007-07-09 19:52:24
81.   Indiana Jon
Wasn't there a discussion here last week about ugly swings? Vlad's may be the ugliest. That alone should prove looks don't matter.
2007-07-09 19:53:14
82.   trainwreck
I want to see a Dodger in the HR derby. Who knows if that will ever happen.
2007-07-09 19:54:11
83.   still bevens
75 I think its the opposite. I think those dudes are taking umbrage to their beer being sold in snooty locations and they're liberating it.
2007-07-09 19:54:49
84.   Indiana Jon
Remember Piazza? Didn't go so well.
2007-07-09 19:55:07
85.   Bob Timmermann
Choi was in the 2005 Home Run Derby.
2007-07-09 19:55:46
86.   Eric Stephen
82 Hee Seop Choi was a participant in 2005. Mike Piazza was in the derby at least once, if not twice. I'm not sure of the year. I want to say 1996 in Philly. He didn't hit any HR.
2007-07-09 19:56:15
87.   Eric Stephen
85 I'm slow all over the place today.
2007-07-09 19:56:21
88.   trainwreck
I mean in the future.
2007-07-09 19:57:05
89.   Indiana Jon
88 Kemp?
2007-07-09 19:58:06
90.   Eric Stephen
83 I get why they are pulling the Miller beer from those locations, but you never see them pull up to any sporting venue and pulling the beer because they charge $8 for a beer (comparable to the $11 hamburger).
2007-07-09 20:02:10
91.   Eric Stephen
The world needs more Erin Andrews.
2007-07-09 20:02:25
92.   twerp
Jon, considering the Dodgers' 5-2 record (.714) this season when you've attended, has the team sent you complimentary passes for all remaining home games yet? :)
2007-07-09 20:02:26
93.   Bluebleeder87
81

he's got a super powerful swing & IMO there's nothing ugly about it. Aaron Sele on the other hand has a pretty bad swing. Mr. Cub Ernie Banks in my book probably takes the cake for worst swing.

2007-07-09 20:03:49
94.   Bob Timmermann
92
The Dodgers are 0-4 when I've attended and been outscored 29-9!
2007-07-09 20:04:41
95.   Bob Timmermann
91
As long as they don't talk.
2007-07-09 20:05:26
96.   still bevens
91 I would prefer more Erin Andrews for myself, but I'm selfish like that.
2007-07-09 20:12:11
97.   underdog
Oliver Platt as George Steinbrenner?

Huh.

What else is on tonight?

2007-07-09 20:12:20
98.   confucius
I am going to be in Phoenix later this week for a wedding and I was wondering if anyone knows any cool restaurants, bars or fun things to do there. I have all of Friday to fill. I think I'll go to the D'backs Pads game on Friday night, but I don't know what else to do.
2007-07-09 20:14:44
99.   underdog
That baseball cam idea above reminded me, Scott Ostler had an amusing column in today's SF Chronicle, about Bonds spurning the HR Derby. In it he mentions something I'd never heard about:
"Maybe the derby is merely a sideshow to the big circus of the All-Star Game, but it's a great tradition -- not only the 21 years of the All-Star event, but dating back to 1960 when there was a television show called "Home Run Derby." It was filmed at Wrigley Field in Los Angeles (since demolished -- the ballpark, not the city), and during the show's one-season run, nine future Hall of Famers competed, one on one, including Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle and Hank Aaron.

Watching the old tapes now (the shows will be available on DVD from MGM Home Entertainment), it's horribly cornball and stunningly low-tech. The homer cam will make you seasick. But it's a great close-up look at legendary hitters competing fiercely for each week's $2,000 winner's check."

http://tinyurl.com/2mkkga

2007-07-09 20:16:56
100.   Bluebleeder87
97

who new Billy Martin won a WS MVP I guess he was the little 2nd baseman that could back in the day.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-07-09 20:17:33
101.   twerp
94. Team 0-4 and outscored 29-9 when you've been there? Maybe the Dodgers would send you complimentary tickets to stay away...:0)
2007-07-09 20:20:08
102.   underdog
So John Turturro played Howard Cosell for one made for TV movie, and now he's gotten the fake big ears out of storage again to play Billy Martin. Odd.
2007-07-09 20:29:19
103.   twerp
101. Grrrrr..."to stay away, except they'd be afraid you'd jinx whoever you gave them to."

Hit submit instead of edit again.

Grr...

2007-07-09 20:29:39
104.   Jon Weisman
92 - Actually, I'm down to 5-3 thanks to Friday's loss. But still ahead of the non-Jon pace and zeroing in on my 300th win since 1991 - hopefully, it will come before the end of next year.
2007-07-09 20:33:15
105.   Eric Stephen
104 Race to 300: Randy Johnson vs. Jon Weisman!
2007-07-09 20:36:17
106.   Indiana Jon
99 They used to show reruns of that on ESPN many years ago late at night. It was fun to watch. Interesting to hear those players interviewed even though they didn't really speak their minds like players do today.
2007-07-09 21:14:45
107.   Bob Timmermann
101
Interestingly, I have not yet paid to attend a game this year. People just know when the Dodgers are going to lose and say, "I think I will give Bob a free ticket."

The four games were the first game of the exhibition Freeway Series.

In the other three, the opposing pitchers were Brandon Webb, Roy Halladay, and Jake Peavy.

2007-07-09 21:15:16
108.   Daniel Zappala
I set aside my whole evening to read Bob's SF diatribe and now I find out he isn't going to post it. Guess I'll feed my cat and do some laundry.
2007-07-09 21:28:34
109.   Bob Timmermann
108
The diatribe was starting off boring and unfunny, so I gave up.
2007-07-09 21:36:31
110.   Marty
Most diatribes are.
2007-07-09 22:07:36
111.   das411
109 - but that never stops Peter Gammons Bob, why let it slow you down?
2007-07-09 22:19:26
112.   jtrichey
As if you didn't know already, Joe Morgan is a twit. Did you hear how he originally picked Ryan Howard to win the Derby, but after Big Rs 1st round exit Morgan changed his pick to Vlad. Joe then proceeded to root him on the rest of the way and acted like that was his pick all along. Dusty Baker just smiled and let him do it. Unbelievable.
2007-07-09 22:20:50
113.   trainwreck
He also kept changing his prediction for the number of swings it would take Vlad to win the contest.
2007-07-09 22:25:23
114.   Icaros
I've been invited to Friday's Billingsley vs. Cain matchup at The Phone Booth.

By a Giants fan!

2007-07-09 22:27:09
115.   Bob Timmermann
Giants fans are the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human beings I've ever known in my life.
2007-07-09 22:35:54
116.   Icaros
115

This one hates my Dodger Thoughts and Ghame Over shirts, even after I explain to her that one shirt is promoting a website which covers the Dodgers, not the Dodgers, while the other is referencing two players who basically haven't pitched in years, one of whom is no longer even with the organization.

They're an unforgiving bunch.

2007-07-09 22:48:04
117.   trainwreck
116
At least it is a she. So you got that going for you.
2007-07-09 22:53:36
118.   Icaros
117

Married.

2007-07-09 23:09:08
119.   trainwreck
Real cool Bill Paxton.
2007-07-09 23:20:38
120.   Icaros
We do things different up here.
2007-07-09 23:54:00
121.   Shotupthemiddle
115 Bob likes to pass the time by playing a little solitaire.
2007-07-10 00:05:50
122.   Bob Timmermann
121
The Queen of Hearts! Now what do I do?
2007-07-10 00:17:42
123.   Dodgers49
Boras wants defense to be recognized

>>> Agent proposes a new stat, 'EP' or 'Exceptional Play,' to be given to players who make sensational plays on defense during a game. <<<

http://tinyurl.com/2ro7ak

2007-07-10 00:28:30
124.   bhsportsguy
I sure hope he had the decency to call Coach Wooden himself and tell him the bad news.

http://www.laobserved.com/

You won't believe it until you read it but it is just another thing that makes you want to say hmmmmm.

2007-07-10 00:50:17
125.   xaphor
They have transformed a 7-11 in Orlando into a Kwik-E-Mart complete with signature products to promote the new movie.

http://tinyurl.com/2fpdbo

I'm 3 for 3 this year with 6 home runs. This team mashes. :)

2007-07-10 00:52:14
126.   Bob Timmermann
124
So where do I send the chafing dish?
2007-07-10 01:04:20
127.   trainwreck
All the things I want to say about Lavin I am not allowed to say on this site.
2007-07-10 03:53:45
128.   D4P
95
As long as they don't talk

Where's oswald...?

2007-07-10 06:48:50
129.   Daniel Zappala
124 Everyone expects about 30-50% of the invited guests to RSVP and attend, so it's not that unusual to send out more invitations than you expect to attend the wedding. But then, maybe the rules are different if you are a minor celebrity.
2007-07-10 08:48:59
130.   Jon Weisman
I think we invited 240 and got 140, roughly. If 95 percent had yes, I might have run away too.
2007-07-10 08:51:39
131.   D4P
If 95 percent had yes, I might have run away too

And then you could have gained national notoriety and made a bunch of money off it.

2007-07-10 08:58:09
132.   regfairfield
123 Me thinks that would be a bad idea, and would punish fielders who actually have range.
2007-07-10 09:07:30
133.   still bevens
125 There's one on Venice and Sepulveda as well. If you ever wanted to wait in a line to get into a 7-11, now is your chance.
2007-07-10 09:14:37
134.   overkill94
Well, I'm halfway back to California. Anybody know of anything fun to do in Springfield, Missouri?
2007-07-10 09:29:08
135.   Bob Timmermann
128
I was not referring to women in general, but to Ms. Andrews in particular, whom I would prefer never speak during a sporting event as she has little useful to add.
2007-07-10 09:30:23
136.   Bob Timmermann
134
Go visit every restaurant John Goodman ate at in Springfield, Missouri when he was a student at SW Missouri State University in Springfield.

It's now Missouri State.

That should keep you occupied for a while.

2007-07-10 09:34:23
137.   D4P
135
Sorry. What you actually meant doesn't really matter in an oswald-related context.
2007-07-10 09:36:13
138.   Bluebleeder87
134

that state sounds like Delaware where theres really nothing to do. I'm a city boy so i wouldn't know, is it humid out there overkill?

2007-07-10 09:41:37
139.   Jon Weisman
Things to do in Delaware:

1) Go the beach
2) Go see the school where "Dead Poets Society" was filmed
3) Go see Delino DeShields' birthplace
4) Feel the "first state" feeling
5) Incorporate

2007-07-10 09:43:34
140.   Bob Timmermann
Don't forget about visiting a DuPont chemical plant, a screen door factory, or a chicken farm.
2007-07-10 09:49:41
141.   Penarol1916
134. There is a ton of outdoorsy stuff to do there, it's basically either that or go to a church. There's also a lot of pretty decent southern-style greasy spoons. Or you could visit Brad Pitt's high school, Kickapoo. In all honesty, I've been there 10 times or so and the most popular place is the Bass Pro Shop, my personal favorite place was this gigantic cave that serves as a wharehouse for dairy products. An especially good place to go in what I'm sure is the oppresive humidity down there.
2007-07-10 09:51:46
142.   D4P
I was just in Delaware week before last. Don't remember seeing DuPont chemical plants, but did notice that at least one building at the U of Delaware had DuPont in the name. Also drove through a lot of farmland. Not sure whether it was chicken or not. Didn't go to the beach in Delaware, but did so in Maryland.
2007-07-10 09:52:15
143.   TheDictator
Jon - I thoroughly love this site. However, I do have a question.

Can we get an update on the 2007 Payroll Worksheet?

Thanks

2007-07-10 10:01:00
144.   Jon Weisman
143 - Of course. Someday.
2007-07-10 10:04:52
145.   regfairfield
143 The one thing True Blue L.A. does better than Dodger thoughts is that the payroll worksheet is kept relatively current.
2007-07-10 10:06:44
146.   Jacob L
Whoa, whoa! Wait a second. The existence of Delaware has been stipulated?
2007-07-10 10:08:25
147.   TheDictator
145

I think you have just broken rule number 3!

:-)

2007-07-10 10:13:07
148.   Bob Timmermann
146
I had a vision about the state of Delaware. It involved a burning bush, four angels, and the giant head of Kevin Mench.
2007-07-10 10:17:03
149.   Jon Weisman
145 - understates the case.

146 - Absolutely. Don't let Bob try to snow you.

2007-07-10 10:28:13
150.   Jon Weisman
Jim Baker's divisional All-VORP teams can be seen for free at Baseball Prospectus.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6436

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-07-10 10:30:55
151.   Bluebleeder87
the guys from Flight of The Conchords were on KROQ today they did "partime model" man that song cracks me up every time i here it, really funny guys.
2007-07-10 10:41:35
152.   Bluebleeder87
Russell Martin catching Jake Peavy is gonna be pretty weird. i rarely get excited for all-star games but this one must be pretty good for Dodgers fans i think.
2007-07-10 10:43:36
153.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, Peavy will be surprised to throw to a catcher who has a chance of throwing out anyone trying to steal.
2007-07-10 10:44:32
154.   underdog
If ever I'm feeling blue (and not in a Dodger kind of way), just seeing the opening credits for Flight of the Conchords alone cheers me up greatly. Seriously.

I think Russell should get in a fight with Peavy on the mound, just for fun.

2007-07-10 10:57:03
155.   Disabled List
There's a hipster litmus test buried deep in Flight of the Conchords. The songs have this self-aware, ironic quality to them, while the rest of the show is drier and more sarcastic.

If you like the songs significantly more than the rest of the show, you've tested positive.

2007-07-10 11:03:48
156.   ToyCannon
Just because I was bored.
Mid Season Look at our Prospects: Top 15 prospects as determined by Baseball HQ
Headed into 2007:
1. La Roche - Wasted 1st half. Didn't hit in AAA, still got brought up to the big club and didn't hit their either. Showed excellent plate discipline but that was the extent of the positives. Went back to AAA and still didn't hit. Then it was discovered his shoulder was still hurting and he took some time off. Since his return he's hitting like the guy who was our number one prospect. Based on this you have to think his shoulder was never completely healed and he was gutting it out which would explain the lack of power. This bothers the crap out of me. How you think you can be helping yourself or team by playing through pain when it effects your productivity is beyond me. If he was hurt and he was still banging I could understand but it if hurts and because it hurts you suck(Nomar listen up) then letting the trainers know the problem is probably the best course of action but what do I know. Anyway now that he's starting to hit with authority again he still looks like a top prospect.

2. Elbert - Done for the year. This really hurts as it was not unreasonable to expect him to excel in AA, move up to AAA do his thing for few months and make his Dodger debut in Aug if we needed him in the rotation. Now we have to wait until next year to see if he comes back from surgery at the same level.

3.Clayton Kershaw - has done everything and more. Easily the number one prospect in the organization at this point. Many pundits have already proclaimed him the number one LH prospect and some have gone so far as to make him the number one pitching prospect. Still to young to count on as we need to see what he does in High A, AA and if he can stay healthy. Ace potential. Looking more and more like the best thing to happen to the Dodgers was for Hochevar to spurn us and give us the crack at Kershaw.

4. James Loney - bizarre year, big spring, didn't make team heads to AAA and does zip. Many ab's go by and he's still doing zip. Is this the same guy who hit 380 in the same league a year ago? Out of the blue he's promoted to the big club and unlike La Roche he's goes batty and slugs Nomar over to 3b. At this point he looks like he could be our 1st baseman for years to come. Far cry from what he looked like in AAA in May. I'm still not a complete believer but I'm getting there. I think the gold glove talk is overblown right now as he has not looked like a gold glove 1st baseman to me but he certainly is a huge upgrade over Nomar's defense.

5. Blake DeWitt - terrible April but with each month he's gotten hotter and now he's smoking.
Dewitt's Splits this season.

Month/Avg/OB/SLug/OPS/BABIP
April .211/255/368/623/228
May 296/321/407/729/316
June 390/435/650/1.085/427
Problem is, he's doing this in High A which is a repeat league for him. I've seen some scouts start to sour on him completely and even with his hot June they aren't convinced he will be able to hit major league pitching well enough to overcome his 3b defense. 15 errors so far but these are minor league parks but as Greg Brock says, "stone hands".

6. Jonathon Meloan - went to AA and has just dominated from beginning to end. Many think he is just wasting time in AA at this point. HQ has now moved him from 75 to 50 on the prospect list which would make him the highest relief pitcher on the list. It is hard to crack top prospect lists as a relief pitcher. We will see him in Dodger stadium this year.

7. Preston Mattingly - after making about an error a game he was moved from SS to 2nd base. At the same time he started spanking the ball after a dismal April. All of the Loons were terrible in April and they all seemed to start hitting in May. After his hot May he has cooled off again. If he can really stick at 2nd base then we might have something to talk about. If he moves to the corner outfield like many scouts say he's destined to do it is hard at this point to picture anything special but he's so young and raw who knows.

8. Chin Lung Hu - fresh off his Futures game MVP, he's been having a solid year in AA. Everyone says he has the best glove in the minor leagues and the question was could he hit enough to be more then Cesar Isturis. I'm starting to see comparisons to Furcal(BP/Goldstein) but I think they mean the April/May/June Furcal and not MVP of 2006 Furcal. If the Dodgers don't resign Furcal then he is on a time line to be our SS in 2009.

9. Josh Bell - Another Loon who started slow and then came on strong. One scout has said that he looks like a man among boys and his power is his great asset. Since he's only at Low A we need to wait to see but it looks like we could have a special player. Switch hitting 3b but again the glove could be what tarnishes the star if he can't remain at 3b.

10. Bryan Morris - TJ Surgery in 2006- hopefully can be throwing by the AFL.

11. Tony Abreu - Already with the big club. Was having a great AAA season playing 2nd base when he was moved to 3b. I myself am not sure why he's on the big club at this point as I think he has no business playing 3b but should be concentrating on 2nd/SS and replacing Kent in 2008 or 2009. Hopefully he can be something close to an Orlando Hudson.

12. Kyle Orr - stayed in extended Spring Training and just now has started playing in the GCL.

13. Greg Miller - talk about highs and lows. In spring training he was so impressive they said he had a chance to make the team. Didn't happen but then he imploded in AAA and just started walking everyone. Was sent back to AA to work out his problems. He's gotten better but that is only relative to how bad he was doing, still walking a batter an inning. The only silver lining is that is still showing some serious dominance.

14. Ivan Dejesus - another SS with a great glove but little bat at this point. Still young and he does possess plate discipline something his father never had. Might turn into something but looks to me like a utility player.

15. Delwyn Young - the forgotten man. Typically he started off slow but is mashing in AAA and putting up doubles at a prodigious rate. Now entrenched as a corner outfielder with his only plus skill being his arm. He is a switch hitter and this year his splits are fairly even while in 2005/2006 in Vegas his splits showed him to be overmatched by LHP. However his 2005 AA splits were much more like his current splits are so maybe he can hit from both sides of the plate.

Added Players:
Xavier Paul - been around for a while but he's still young. Having a solid year in AA showing a some tools in all area's. Always had a great arm, don't know if he's a CF or not but if he is then I think he has a future.

Cory Dunlap - man he pisses me off. Showed some excellent power last year to go with his plate discipline but he's still a fat 1st baseman and now his power has gone AWOL.

Justin Orenduff - Coming off of surgery and overall his 2007 numbers look terrible but he has put himself back on the map with 4 straight excellent outings. Was never considered more then a back of a rotation starter and after having been written off earlier this year it is nice to see him bouncing back.

Mike McGrew - another pitcher coming back from surgery. He's been very inconsistent. He's had a few lights out games but they have not been frequent enough to get him into the top 15.

Zachary Hammes - made great strides last year and was put in the bullpen but know he's starting again. AA numbers are okay but 8 home runs in 54IP has been his Achilles heal.

Ramon Troncoso - lit up High A and earned a promotion to AA where he'd been just about perfect until his last outing which skews his numbers. Excellent k/w ratio and has only given up 1 HR all year in 49 innings.
6'7 large intimidating pitcher who is already 24 so he might get the fast track. He's cracks the top 15 for me.

Travis Denker - same age as Dewitt but shows more plate discipline and power. In the past he lit up low A and crashed and burned every time he hit high A. Now he's doing the job at High A 323/399/478 while playing 2nd base. Last year he and Dewitt flip-flopped positions but this year they are both back at their normal positions where they are both below average defensively. I've always like Denker's combination of plate discipline and power but he looks like a player who will take his time moving up the ranks.

James McDonald - Has been promoted to AA and has been the best starting pitcher in the minors for the Dodgers this year. Let's see what he can do against the next level of competition but he's in the top 15.

Franciso Felix - Dominated Low A and was promoted to high A and has not has great success. He was old for Low A so now that he's pitching in a league more suited for his age we can see how he does.

Garret White - LH relief pitcher, on the radar.

Lucas May - was converted from SS to Catcher and started how blasting home runs all over the place in High A but has since cooled. Still a 22 year old catcher with 16 bombs in 324 at bats is still intriguing. Have no idea whatsoever how he's handling the defensive side of the equation.

Jamie Hoffman - nice numbers for High A and he's been playing about 1/2 his games at CF. Without any scouting reports on his defensive ability it is hard to rank him depending on if he projects to be a CF or corner OF.

Adkins
Wesley Wright

Disappointing Prospects
Joshua Wall
Steve Johnson
Carlos Santana-this pains me. I had high expectations for him after he was switched to behind the plate. In the past he had shown good plate discipline with okay power but this year he is a big zero offensively. May be time to pick up the guitar again.

Intriguing Players: < 20
Jose Dominquez - 16 year old pitcher who is in the GCL and struck out the 1st 7 hitters he faced. They are using him as he's already pitched 3 times in a week. Not sure what a 16 year old is doing in the GCL but it makes looking at the box scores interesting.
Rondon Daigoro
Pedro Baez
Pedro Guerrero
Yosanddy Garcia
Andrew Lambo
Kenly Jansen
Jamie Ortiz
Alfredo Silverio
Scott Van Slyke
Winthrow
Watt

Hopefully Nate or Canuck can give us more insite on the above players.

Revised top 15 ranking - just my opinion and at this point it is really guessing.
1 Kershaw, SP
2 La Roche, 3b
3 Meloan, RP
4 Elbert, SP
5 J Bell, 3b
6 Hu, SS
7 Morris, SP
8 Mattingly, Preston, 2b
9 McDonald, SP
10 D Young, OF
11 *Paul, Xavier , CF
12 Denker, 2b
13 DeWitt, 3b
14 Orenduff, Justin, SP
15 Troncoso, Ramon, RP

Loney and Abreu I decided are no longer eligible for the list since they should both lose their rookie eligibility by the end of the year.

2007-07-10 11:11:55
157.   underdog
Awesome, Toy. Thanks for the insight! I'm really excited about Bell, Kershaw, McDonald and Dominguez (and don't forget Baez) of the younger prospects.

Oh, also, don't forget that Hu was just promoted to AAA! That's the what and where for Hu. ;-)

2007-07-10 11:36:25
158.   bhsportsguy
156 Nice job TC. Kevin Goldstein ponders if the Dodgers have anymore offensive talent in the system (not sure what he thinks about LaRoche). Free look at BP's premium content until the 15th.
2007-07-10 11:36:54
159.   Kevin Lewis
I loved this article on the lost art of focused commentary for sports.

http://tinyurl.com/36tdat

2007-07-10 11:43:11
160.   Bob Timmermann
Tony,
Forget about the elevator thing:

http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/archives/2007/07/tomorrows_lineu_1.html

2007-07-10 11:46:21
161.   Marty
Nice write-up Toy. Didn't I see in another thread that it was determined that it wasn't Jose Dominguez, but another Dominguez who struck out all those players?
2007-07-10 11:49:06
162.   Bluebleeder87
great list TC, i really hope we get to see Meloan this year. It's pretty depressing seeing how Greg Miller is stinking it up, he showed so much promise during ST.
2007-07-10 11:55:46
163.   Bob Timmermann
Which syllable do you put the accent on in Meloan?
2007-07-10 12:11:59
164.   underdog
Heh. Did you see Blue Notes' new blog entry about what some of the Dodgers are up to over the AS break? I liked this one:

Jeff Kent
"Not talk to you guys."

2007-07-10 12:14:27
165.   silverwidow
Meloan is pronounced as "Malone"
2007-07-10 12:19:00
166.   silverwidow
I would personally bump Elbert and Morris from the top 10 until we see how they respond from surgery.

Kershaw is a clear-cut #1 for me. After that it gets dicey but would have no problem with LaRoche, Meloan, Bell, and Hu rounding out a top 5.

2007-07-10 12:21:06
167.   Hythloday
163 - I always thought is was Me-LOW-un.
2007-07-10 12:23:16
168.   D4P
I would personally bump Elbert and Morris from the top 10 until we see how they respond from surgery

Whereas I would send someone else to do it.

2007-07-10 12:26:20
169.   Dodgers49
HBO Documentary Brings Back Memories

>>> All of those boyhood dreamy memories -- and the nightmare of the Dodgers departure -- came flooding back to me the other night watching an advanced copy of a brilliant documentary produced by HBO Sports in association with Major League Baseball. It's called "Brooklyn Dodgers: The Ghosts of Flatbush," and makes it debut Wednesday (July 11) at 8 p.m., with a number of future play dates scheduled over the next month. <<<

http://tinyurl.com/ypyjgs

2007-07-10 12:35:14
170.   ToyCannon
161
Might have missed that but when I click the link to the Dominquez in the box score I get this from Minor League Baseball
http://tinyurl.com/2rft5c

It would make sense that the link is wrong since I had a hard time believing they were using a 16 year old in the GCL but that is what they show.

2007-07-10 12:37:22
171.   ToyCannon
166
Morris was already bumped down because of the surgery or he'd have been a top 5 prospect. He was down to 9 because of the surgery so I couldn't see dropping him out of the top 10 since nothing has changed.
2007-07-10 12:42:33
172.   Jacob L
169 I don't deny anybody their own memories, but wasn't anybody's heart broken when, say, the Braves moved to Milwaukee? There's literally nothing left to say about the Dodgers move, save for the part about it providing a couple of generations worth of baseball memories for kids growing up in Los Angeles.
2007-07-10 12:47:09
173.   ToyCannon
158
He is probably right. Other then La Roche I don't see any can't miss high offensive talents. Josh Bell is the only guy who looks like he could be an offensive difference maker and he's years away so if your looking for offensive impact players in the next 2-3 years I see nobody. Some of these 17-18 year old DR guys might be but they can't be anything but ??? at this time.
Not like you can keep the pipeline full of offensive talent when you've graduated Martin, Loney, Ethier, and Kemp since May of 2006. If La Roche makes it you would have 5/8 of your starting lineup comprised of home grown talent that just started reaching the bigs 13 months ago. It is reaching to include Ethier as either home grown or a difference maker so make that 4/8. Even the Twinkies would be proud so if we have to take a rest it is understandable.
2007-07-10 13:01:11
174.   Bob Timmermann
172
Apparently no one's heart was broken when the Giants moved to San Francisco. Or when the Athletics moved to Kansas City (and on to Oakland). Or when the Browns moved to Baltimore. Or the Senators moved to Minnesota or Texas.

But you know who's really angry? People in Milwaukee who lost their AL franchise in 1901 to St. Louis.

If I have to run into another weepy Milwaukee AL fan from that year, I'm going to slug him in the face.

2007-07-10 13:06:33
175.   Bob Timmermann
Brooklyn also stole a team from Hartford in 1877. But they still called themselves Hartford even though they played in Brooklyn. Sometimes they were referred to as the Brooklyn Hartfords.

They folded the next year.

2007-07-10 13:16:19
176.   Nagman
160 I was wondering if I was the only one amused by Tony Jackson's elevator rants. Sure, I think less of the Dodger organization now that their elevator policy has been exposed.

I hope Tony Jackson never gets a column because if his blog is any indication of what his columns would be like, it would make TJ and Plaschke look good.

2007-07-10 13:16:22
177.   ToyCannon
I was ticked when the Senators moved to Texas even though I'd already moved to LA by then. It left a pain in my heart that only an Ed Stroud baseball card can soothe.
2007-07-10 13:17:01
178.   Eric Enders
173 "Other then La Roche I don't see any can't miss high offensive talents."

But that's not really saying much, since there are, what, maybe 20 can't-miss high-end offensive talents in all of minor league baseball? We do have a bunch of guys who could turn out to be that. The odds are pretty good that at least one of Orr, Lambo, Gallagher, Baez, or Bell will turn out to be a good major league power hitter. And Delwyn Young appears well on his way to a Matt Stairs/Olmedo Saenz type career as a "professional hitter."

2007-07-10 13:18:12
179.   Jacob L
175 That reminds me of the football machinations a decade ago that resulted in the Houston Texans. My solution at the time was to go ahead and have the team play their games in Houston, but to call them the L.A. O.G.s or some such thing. I wasn't going to actually attend any games anyway.
2007-07-10 13:18:21
180.   Daniel Zappala
Personally, I was crushed when the Angels moved from LA to Anaheim. Why couldn't they keep playing in Wrigley Field in South Central LA?
2007-07-10 13:18:44
181.   Penarol1916
172. There have been a number of stories about Milwaukee fans heartbroken about losing the Braves, that was one of the "justifications" for moving the Brewers to the National League, to return NL ball to Milwaukee. The fans were pretty rabid, my dad tells stories about getting in fights pretty regularly as a kid being the only Dodger fan in Colby, WI surrounded by Braves fans.
2007-07-10 13:20:07
182.   Daniel Zappala
179 Nobody does machinations like the NFL. I'm still amazed they put a team in Houston and not LA.
2007-07-10 13:24:05
183.   Bob Timmermann
180
But you weren't crushed when the Angels moved to Dodger Stadium?
2007-07-10 13:25:15
184.   Jacob L
182 At the cost of, like, a billion dollars in cash, I wasn't that surprised that Houston got their team. It does hurt a bit, imagining David Carr in an LA uniform, but first you have to imagine the uniform.
2007-07-10 13:28:22
185.   Bob Timmermann
181
The Milwaukee Braves fans were very quick to stop showing up once the team stopped being a contender.

But if it hadn't been for the Braves moving out to Milwaukee and giving O'Malley a gameplan for a successful move and how to reap all the money, who knows what would have happened?

Does this stadium layout with parking lots remind you of anything?

http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/national/county02.jpg

2007-07-10 13:41:06
186.   underdog
184 Well now you just have to imagine David Carr as a backup in a Carolina Panther uniform. Less painful!

Houston stole my favorite MLS soccer team, too, the jerks.

2007-07-10 13:56:10
187.   Bob Timmermann
Latest stupid Slate article on baseball:
http://www.slate.com/id/2170031

The writer's point is pointless.

2007-07-10 13:58:10
188.   natepurcell
background on Pedro Baez from a couple of different sources

dodgers signed him this past winter signing period and according to Diamond's article, Logan White said they signed him as a 17yr year old and gave him a 200K bonus. Chris Kline in a chat answer said White stole him away from other clubs and for less money and he is a legit international signee that can turn into a power hitting monster. My only question is whether the milb.com info page is wrong because it lists him as a 19yr old and not 18.

2007-07-10 14:02:37
189.   GobiasIndustries
160
I agree. What does Tony Jackson hope to accomplish by bellyaching? It's pointless point he's trying to make. I don't read that blog anymore and now I remember why.
2007-07-10 14:13:27
190.   regfairfield
189 Maybe he actually expects the Dodgers not to make the players more important than the writers, for whatever reason.
2007-07-10 14:13:38
191.   Penarol1916
187. Well, his argument is pointless, but I don't think that the argument is the point of the article. I think his article is really just a plea to allow people to act like complete idiots for entertainment like they did in the old days. In fact, I don't think he even mentioned once a way that someone actually got thrown out of a game back in the early 1900's, just the results of brawls. Probably one of the worst written articles on Slate I've ever seen. Of course, their only good sports articles have to do with college basketball.
2007-07-10 14:14:42
192.   Jon Weisman
I have enjoyed Tony's blog this year, but I'm not sure why he thinks this is such a big deal. Yes, Dodger Stadium is elevator-challenged, but compared to the food lines and the grungy bathrooms, it's small potatoes.

If this involved someone in a wheelchair, that'd be one thing. Otherwise, just take the stairs.

2007-07-10 14:17:12
193.   Penarol1916
192. He doesn't care about the foodlines and grungy bathrooms because they don't affect him, but the elevator situation does.
2007-07-10 14:18:56
194.   xaphor
187. A plea to increase the duration of a ball game, from the media no less.

Boras wants a new EE, or Exceptional Ejection to keep Cox from watering down the stat.

2007-07-10 14:25:29
195.   Jon Weisman
193 - Well, I realize that - I'm not sure why he expects us to think it's a big deal.
2007-07-10 14:26:16
196.   Bob Timmermann
192
Tony Jackson would not like the Los Angeles Central Library. We have elevator and escalator issues.

There are so many guys in green shirts that say "Otis" walking around that I'm always worried.

2007-07-10 14:28:19
197.   GobiasIndustries
192
Yeah someone handicapped or disabled in some way would've been an entirely different thing and then I could understand the justification.
193
1000% True. I think that's the underlined reasoning. Of course I'm just speculating...
2007-07-10 14:29:21
198.   Bob Timmermann
191
What good articles on college basketball? Do you mean the "John Wooden is the root of all evil" hit piece?

Slate also likes soccer players who dive.

2007-07-10 14:31:14
199.   Penarol1916
195. Like most people, he is stuck in his own world and doesn't realize the problems that he doesn't have to face. It is amazing how little empathy almost everyone has for the problems of others.
2007-07-10 14:32:21
200.   D4P
198
To be fair, Wooden's legacy was a triumph of rigidity, bureaucracy, paternalism, and anal retentiveness.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-07-10 14:34:43
201.   Bob Timmermann
200
Then again, you can apply that to Bill Belichick too. But he's a GENIUS!
2007-07-10 14:36:08
202.   Bob Timmermann
199
Yesterday, leaving work, my coworker and I got stuck in the parking lot when the automatic gate refused to go up when she used the parking pass. We had to talk our way out and it took 20 minutes.

I demand sympathy!

2007-07-10 14:37:29
203.   D4P
Bill Belichick wears frumpy sweatshirts. Must be from St. Louis.
2007-07-10 14:40:05
204.   Bob Timmermann
203
Belichick is not from St. Louis. His father coached at a military academy. I believe his father was a SUPER-genius.
2007-07-10 14:40:50
205.   Greg Brock
Stopped scraping ceilings to come out of lurking mode and berate 200.

Berate!

2007-07-10 14:48:30
206.   D4P
Peter Gammons has an ESPN Insider™ article up entitled "Padres add without subtracting" that includes this excerpt that us laity can access:

Come mid-August, the two most significant positional acquisitions could end up being Milton Bradley and Michael Barrett, whom Kevin Towers essentially acquired for nothing.

2007-07-10 14:50:21
207.   underdog
Alyssa Milano fans will enjoy reading about the soiree she hosted here last night (funny, I never got my invite).

http://tinyurl.com/3ykkrj

2007-07-10 14:51:30
208.   underdog
204 His father was Wile E. Coyote?
2007-07-10 14:53:53
209.   Jack Dawkins
98 Late response to the post, but Confucius, where in Phoenix are you going to be? Downtown? West Valley/Glendale? East Valley/Scottsdale etc.?
2007-07-10 14:54:47
210.   Penarol1916
198. No, that article didn't even bring up the dirty recruiting of UCLA during the Wooden years. How can you do a Wooden hit piece without that innuendo?
2007-07-10 14:55:06
211.   Bob Timmermann
206
Gammons has little respect for Rob Bowen.
2007-07-10 14:56:16
212.   natepurcell
apparently dewitts been promoted to AA.
2007-07-10 14:56:37
213.   D4P
210
Funny how certain U.C.L.A. fans don't like the coach of the Florida Gators...
2007-07-10 14:57:21
214.   Bob Timmermann
210
No, the article did bring up Sam Gilbert.

"(Though it bears noting that UCLA benefited not only from the services of the best talent of the day, but also from the largesse of an especially oily booster named Sam Gilbert, a moneylender, as it were, whom Coach Christ forgot to cast out of the temple)"

2007-07-10 14:58:48
215.   Bob Timmermann
213
This fish is swimming away from that bait.
2007-07-10 15:00:57
216.   Penarol1916
214. I guess I forgot that part, since most Wooden hit pieces tend to focus more on his sleazy recruiting than anything else. Anyway, it's 5 o'clock here and since I'm no longer posting today, Wooden was obviously the dirtiest coach since Adolph Rupp.
2007-07-10 15:02:17
217.   confucius
209
I'm staying in Mesa, but I'll be at chase field on Friday night. I'll have a car so I can go wherever if there's something fun to do.
2007-07-10 15:02:35
218.   Bob Timmermann
216
Norm Sloan fans are going to be very angry at that assertion.

Dave Bliss and Todd Bozeman scoff.

2007-07-10 15:02:53
219.   TheDictator
187

That did seem rather pointless. Literally, I don't think there was one coherent message that could be gleaned from the article.

It was like there was a point in the first third. A second point in the second third. Then we were mercifully killed at the end.

It gives me hope for a future writing career!

2007-07-10 15:07:37
220.   ToyCannon
It is pouring in Sylmar. Who knew???
2007-07-10 15:08:12
221.   Jon Weisman
220 - Just you?

July rain in Southern California? Call Ripley's.

2007-07-10 15:10:14
222.   still bevens
211 Also little respect for clubhouse chemistry. He needs to have a sit down with Bill Plaschke and get his head on straight.
2007-07-10 15:10:24
223.   underdog
That's good, though. You guys needed rain desperately. Except not floods. Hopefully, there will be no floods.

It's nice and sunny here for the All-Star game, after a foggy early morning (pretty typical). Going to watch the game with a Yankee fan friend and some of his mates at a bar called.. the Connecticut Yankee. I'll likely be the only Dodger fan there.

2007-07-10 15:10:35
224.   Jon Weisman
New post up top, at your leisure.
2007-07-10 15:13:22
225.   ToyCannon
188
Thanks

212
Good, now let us see what he does.

2007-07-10 16:08:03
226.   Jack Dawkins
209 Considering it will be between 100 - 110 degrees in the daytime I'd guess you'd want to do something inside during the day.

I don't know Mesa at all but if you are going to Downtown Phoenix anyway, there's are loads of restaurants/bars within a few blocks of Chase, US Airways Center and Symphony Hall. Kincaid's is a good steak house in that area, located in the Collier Center. If you are into brew pubs, there's Sonora Brewhouse about 15 minutes north of downtown, on Camelback between Central Ave. and 7th St.

Don't know if you're into cultural things but if you have any interest in Native American culture, history and art the Heard Museum, also downtown (on Central Ave, about 5-6 minutes north of Chase) is outstanding.

Then of course you can always swing by St. Mary's High School (7th St. & Thomas, I think) if you want to see where Andre Ethier was (presumably) first scouted. There's actually some architecturally historic neighborhoods around that area if that floats yer boat.

Budget time to drive around downtown because they are tearing up streets for a light rail system.

Hope this is somewhat helpful . . .

2007-07-11 07:49:39
227.   Benaiah
I don't understand the response to Tony Jackson's article. Surely he could be writing about more important things, the war, health care reform (I just saw "Sicko" it is on the brain), Brett Tomko, but that isn't a fair criticism (It begs the question: Shouldn't we be doing something more important too?). Why can't players share an elevator? The first article about skipping floors for players was less defensible (the players aren't like you and me, at least at the stadium), but his does seem a little extreme. Besides, I bet most sports writers are dying to write an expose, let him vent!

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